Was Marion Ross going to play Beverly Ann before Cloris Leachman

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Christopher

I don't consider it mostly true and I don't see how others can. Look at the facts surrounding this rumor: Cloris never worked in Norman Lear's shows.

Cloris appeared as a recurring character in The Powers that Be, a Norman Lear production in the 1990s, as well as Sunday Dinner, another Norman Lear production. These were just after FOL ended, in the 1990-1993 era.

How did he get her the job when another company was producing FOL?

Norman Lear still had some influence at Coca-Cola: he had just made a multi-million dollar deal with them just a year earlier. Norman Lear was not above pulling in favors, and executives at all three networks owed him favors. That is how Charlotte got hired for DS on NBC when she had a contract on CBS.

Also, Cloris was working nonstop in the 80's.

By 1986, Cloris was doing mostly animated voiceover work, being the voice of Hydia in My Little Pony, the voice of Dola in Castle in the Sky, the voice of Mrs. Pickett in the direct-to-video Sparky's Magic Piano, and the voice of Queen Serena in The Little Troll Prince. The former Academy Award-winning actress had been reduced to doing cartoon voiceovers for direct-to-video productions.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Cloris appeared as a recurring character in The Powers that Be, a Norman Lear production in the 1990s, as well as Sunday Dinner, another Norman Lear production. These were just after FOL ended, in the 1990-1993 era.

Those were in the 90's. I don't see any articles citing Norman for getting her the job in FOL. Instead, there's an article from that time period where she credits NBC's Brandon Tartikoff for wanting her on FOL.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

By 1986, Cloris was doing mostly animated voiceover work, being the voice of Hydia in My Little Pony, the voice of Dola in Castle in the Sky, the voice of Mrs. Pickett in the direct-to-video Sparky's Magic Piano, and the voice of Queen Serena in The Little Troll Prince. The former Academy Award-winning actress had been reduced to doing cartoon voiceovers for direct-to-video productions.

That's not all she did. You left out all the movies she had done by 1986. She was still doing movies while playing on FOL. Shadow Play (1986) Walk Like A Man (1987) Hansel and Gretel (1987) Going To The Chapel (1988) Before The Facts of Life she was in a ton of TV movies. Back in the 80's, TV movies were something. She even won an Emmy for one of her TV movies. Her voice over credits you mention and doing kids specials got her a daytime Emmy so that's nothing to sneeze at. You make it sound like she wasn't anything by the time she did FOL but she was still winning awards for her acting in the 80's. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one since I look at facts than someone's word on how Cloris got the job.

[PracTz]

Christopher,

I have one question re your arguments casting doubts on Miss Cohn's claims about Miss Ross being booted in favor of Miss Leachman to have been Miss Rae's replacement:

What would it have gained Miss Cohn to make stuff up out of thin air for a podcast about a role that was cast over 30 years ago? I mean, of ALL the things she could talk about (and perhaps even stretch the truth about) , it seems there would have been little if anything for her to have gained about in starting/restarting something concerning Miss Ross and the late Miss Leachman. And her own character of Natalie had little if anything to do with Beverly Ann.

P.S. Has anyone heard a peep from Miss Ross about whether she ever was considered for the role- much less had shot an episode before getting canned then paid off?

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by PracTz

What would it have gained Miss Cohn to make stuff up out of thin air for a podcast about a role that was cast over 30 years ago? I mean, of ALL the things she could talk about (and perhaps even stretch the truth about) , it seems there would have been little if anything for her to have gained about in starting/restarting something concerning Miss Ross and the late Miss Leachman.

I think she's mistaken. This is a big story to not be covered in any of the documentaries. You also have Cloris from 1986 giving an interview where she credits Brandon Tartikoff for her landing the role on FOL. If Norman actually got her the role, why not pay credit to him? Better yet, if Marion had the role on FOL, why are there no articles back then of her coming to FOL? It seems so odd.

I think what really happened is that Marion was considered for the role but never offered. I think once NBC saw what the character of Beverly Ann was going to be like, they immediately wanted Cloris for the role because in all honesty, Beverly Ann is a Phyllis clone. They're identical characters so why not have the original Phyllis play Beverly Ann?

Originally Posted by PracTz

P.S. Has anyone heard a peep from Miss Ross about whether she ever was considered for the role- much less had shot an episode before getting canned then paid off?

Nope. I googled Marion Ross and The Facts of Life, Marion Ross Charlotte Rae, and Marion Ross Beverly Ann and nothing comes up. Every documentary discussing Cloris coming on in season 8 never says she was replacing Marion Ross which makes me think Marion Ross was never casted in FOL like Mindy said. I think she was considered but they went with Cloris. I don't think Norman had anything to do with it or Cloris asking for a job.

[RetroGuy2000]

Here's an article from the Madison State Journal from July 1986, confirming that Marion Ross was indeed scheduled to replace Charlotte Rae on The Facts of Life. This part of Mindy's recollections are 100% confirmed, as people not only behind the scenes but the public was also aware of the change: it had been officially announced. By July, The Facts of Life Down Under was under production, so the casting change happened quite quickly.

[Sitcommania]

Originally Posted by Christopher

I think she's mistaken. This is a big story to not be covered in any of the documentaries. You also have Cloris from 1986 giving an interview where she credits Brandon Tartikoff for her landing the role on FOL. If Norman actually got her the role, why not pay credit to him? Better yet, if Marion had the role on FOL, why are there no articles back then of her coming to FOL? It seems so odd.

I think what really happened is that Marion was considered for the role but never offered. I think once NBC saw what the character of Beverly Ann was going to be like, they immediately wanted Cloris for the role because in all honesty, Beverly Ann is a Phyllis clone. They're identical characters so why not have the original Phyllis play Beverly Ann?





Nope. I googled Marion Ross and The Facts of Life, Marion Ross Charlotte Rae, and Marion Ross Beverly Ann and nothing comes up. Every documentary discussing Cloris coming on in season 8 never says she was replacing Marion Ross which makes me think Marion Ross was never casted in FOL like Mindy said. I think she was considered but they went with Cloris. I don't think Norman had anything to do with it or Cloris asking for a job.

Maybe they kept it close to the vest so that could avoid a controversy. I’m sure they also paid Marion Ross. She probably didn’t care much, tbh.

[Sitcommania]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Here's an article from the Madison State Journal from July 1986, confirming that Marion Ross was indeed scheduled to replace Charlotte Rae on The Facts of Life. This part of Mindy's recollections are 100% confirmed, as people not only behind the scenes but the public was also aware of the change: it had been officially announced. By July, The Facts of Life Down Under was under production, so the casting change happened quite quickly.

Great find!

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Sitcommania

Great find!

Thanks, SM!

I also found some reviews for My Little Pony, which Cloris appeared in, as a voice actress, right before she was cast on The Facts of Life. Reviews were... unkind. Here's what the LA Times said:

MOVIE REVIEW : ‘PONY’ HAS A BAD CASE OF THE CUTES

Danny DeVito, Madeline Kahn, Cloris Leachman, Rhea Pearlman and Tony Randall provide the voices for the Smooze, the witches and an absent-minded elf. But the entire cast whines and camps and overacts so shamelessly that listening to “My Little Pony” is like plugging your headphones into a ham actor.

The film was drawn in Japan and Korea for Sunbow/Marvel, and the animation looks like rewarmed Saturday morning kidvid. It’s hard to understand why director Michael Joens accepted a script that featured the Smooze so prominently, as none of the artists can animate it. Giving weight, volume and convincing motion to an amorphous character is extremely difficult, and these animators simply aren’t equal to the challenge.

Composer Tommy Goodman and lyricist Barry Harman contributed a number of extraneous, saccharine songs that give new currency to the term doggerel . But the real theme song of “My Little Pony” is the ring of the cash register, as Hasbro attempts to turn unwitting young viewers into customers. The sugary cuteness of the Little Ponies masks a corporate greed as cold and sharp as a razor blade.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Here's an article from the Madison State Journal from July 1986, confirming that Marion Ross was indeed scheduled to replace Charlotte Rae on The Facts of Life. This part of Mindy's recollections are 100% confirmed, as people not only behind the scenes but the public was also aware of the change: it had been officially announced. By July, The Facts of Life Down Under was under production, so the casting change happened quite quickly.

I've never heard of Madison State Journal. It seems so weird that if this is true because this article doesn't make what Mindy say true (ask Thomas Dewey if papers don't make mistakes), I think the documentaries would have touched on this. Cloris gave an interview in 1986. I can't imagine they wouldn't mention that Cloris was a replacement. Replacements aren't taboo in Hollywood. They happen quite a bit. I still think Marion was a consideration but NBC went with Cloris. Cloris even credited the head of NBC in her interview suggesting her for the part.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I also found some reviews for My Little Pony, which Cloris appeared in, as a voice actress, right before she was cast on The Facts of Life. Reviews were... unkind. Here's what the LA Times said:

What does that have to do with anything? You're really fixated on My Little Pony. Are you a brony? I never watched My Little Pony, but I did see some of her movies. Growing up my favorite was Double Double Toil and Trouble. I'm sure the reviews are bad but as a kid, that was a fun Halloween movie

[Sitcommania]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Thanks, SM!

I also found some reviews for My Little Pony, which Cloris appeared in, as a voice actress, right before she was cast on The Facts of Life. Reviews were... unkind. Here's what the LA Times said:

MOVIE REVIEW : ‘PONY’ HAS A BAD CASE OF THE CUTES

My Little Pony was my first introduction to Cloris Leachman.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Sitcommania

My Little Pony was my first introduction to Cloris Leachman.

It probably was for an entire generation of 1980s kids. Those pony figurines were very popular with girls. I know my sister had dozens of them. She also had the pink castle playset so they had a place to live. 🐎

['80sSitcoms]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

It probably was for an entire generation of 1980s kids.

Not for me, as I didn't see the MLP movie until this year. FOL was probably my introduction to her.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Those pony figurines were very popular with girls. I know my sister had dozens of them. She also had the pink castle playset so they had a place to live. ��

My sister had the original Blossom (pony, not Bialik ). The originals were pretty little ponies.

If your sister had dozens, wow!

[PracTz]

Originally Posted by Sitcommania

My Little Pony was my first introduction to Cloris Leachman.

MTM's Phyllis Lindstrom was MY intro to her but I've never seen the MLP beyond the odd commercial here and there .

Still, it's hard to imagine anyone watching FOL would have been MORE eager to tune in to see Miss Leachman via enjoying her voicework in MLP than in her earlier work on MTM.

To somewhat bring this back on topic, at the time, I think the powers may have decided that they weren't ready to chance Miss Ross to do another 'Mrs. C.' after all and balked at that when ultimately deciding on Miss Leachman. However, she WOULD play a very different role as the autocratic but charming matriarch in 'Brooklyn Bridge' so she may have wound up playing things differently as the 'adult' member of the FOL so who knows.

[icecream]

Marion Ross would have been interesting and probably a lot better replacement than Cloris Leachman. Too bad that didn't happen.

[TJ]

Has anyone read Marion Ross' book from a few years ago yet? I know she has appeared in many TV series and movies, so I would be surprised if she never mentioned it.

My Days: Happy and Otherwise
https://www.amazon.com/My-Days-Other...f_=as_li_ss_tl

An interesting fact is that Marion Ross replaced Michael Learned's character in the Who's the Boss? spin-off series Living Dolls in 1989. She was in two episodes near the end of the series.

There's a book called Single Season Sitcoms of the 1980s: A Complete Guide that mentions this:

https://www.amazon.com/Single-Season...f_=as_li_ss_tl

FOUND INSIDE – PAGE 90
The real goal of our show was re-creating 'The Facts of Life with prettier girls. ... Near the end of the show's short run, Learned's character was “replaced” by her sister, Marion (Marion Ross) and Trish was said to be "away."

https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover

This would have been a similar setup as The Facts of Life with her replacing her sister Edna Garrett (Charlotte Rae). I wonder if that's where the confusion comes from.

I would think the item that Marion Ross had been cast would have been picked up by more than one newspaper. That would have been a very quick casting change. Maybe Marion Ross was unable to make the trip to Australia due to other work obligations. According to this article (https://www.nytimes.com/1986/06/15/t...-cape-cod.html) in June 1986, she was doing a play "Never Too Late," at the Cape Playhouse in Dennis, Massachusetts with Gavin MacLeod in the cast. She was also appearing as his wife on The Love Boat around that time.

"The Cape Playhouse (617-385-3911) on Route 6A in Dennis opens its 60th season June 28 with the musical ''Dames at Sea.'' Week-long performances of Broadway hits are presented through Aug. 30 with such stars as Conrad Bain in ''Country Cops,'' Rosemary Prinz and Fannie Flagg in the female version of ''The Odd Couple,'' Michael Learned and Eileen Heckart in ''Pack of Lies'' and Gavin MacLeod and Marion Ross in ''Never Too Late.'' Tickets: $10 to $17."

The Madison State Journal article doesn't really fit the timeline if they started filming in June 1986. That news blurb could have been delayed by several weeks and already outdated by the time it was published.

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fa...ife_Down_Under:

The Facts of Life Down Under was filmed from June to July 1986 at the following locations in Sydney and surrounding areas: Circular Quay ferry wharf, Mosman, New South Wales, Kirribilli, New South Wales, Art Gallery of New South Wales, Bradleys Head, Queen Victoria Building, Strickland House, Vaucluse, Sydney Opera House, Taronga Zoo and Uluṟu-Kata Tjuṯa National Park.

The bottom line is that if Charlotte Rae had recommended Cloris Leachman as her replacement and she was available, they probably would have went with her as their first choice. It seems likely that Marion Ross had other job commitments and couldn't be filming in Australia in June and July 1986. If they had taped a regular episode in August 1986, maybe she could have done it. The summer filming schedule in Australia worked to Cloris Leachman's advantage.