The Norman Lear Book has ended the Spinoff Debate

[TVFactFan]

Originally Posted by TVLegend

I’m getting sick of this.

We will NEVER hear the end of this, because there’s one side that keeps on bringing up this evidence that has been TRIED and TRIED over and over again, not willing to except history or the other side’s evidence. How many times are we gonna go through this?

If you wanna believe Good Times and Maude are not in the same universe, then fine, believe it, but I believe that Good Times and Maude are indeed connected, and I’ll stand by my opinion, but I’m not gonna do this back and forth. It wasn’t Norman Lear who was working on Good Times, it was Eric Monte. Eric Monte had wrote scripts entitled “The Black Family”, based off of his childhood living in a Chicago housing project located in a high crime area, dating way back to 1971. In 1972, the TV show Maude was created. Coincidentally, soon after it’s premiere, Eric Monte went out to sell his scripts to Hollywood and he ran into one guy and had him read his scripts, long story short, the man suggested that he bring it to Norman Lear. So Eric did just that, but Lear said the scripts called for more work, so after some improvising and compromising, they eventually, in the end came out with Good Times. But right off the bat, Lear noticed character Mattie Black from Monte’s original Black Family scripts and turned her into Florida Evans, and decided it would be a better idea to bring her onto his brand new show called Maude, as mentioned earlier, before giving her her own show. And in the blink of an eye, a new character named Florida Evans debuted on Maude as Maude’s housekeeper, and immediately became a household name. Nearly two years later, Lear felt it was time for Florida Evans to be spun off to her own show, Good Times after seeing the popularity of her character. So instead of being consistent about it, he took Eric Monte’s Black Family premise and made it the overall premise of Good Times, wanting a different background. Even Monte himself stated that Lear took his Black Family premise, took Mattie Black and turned her into Florida Evans, introduced her on Maude, and later spun her off onto her own show, pretty much taking his idea, but somehow keeping it within the Maude universe to an extent.

I’m sorry, but to be blunt, I’m sick of this sh*t topic.

Its over, nothing else to talk about it

[TVLegend]

Originally Posted by TVFactFan

Its over, nothing else to talk about it

Yeah, cause’ it’s been established that Good Times IS a spinoff.

[TVLegend]

Originally Posted by opus

Haven't we covered the fact that Norman Lear took pre existing material and twisted it in the Maude universe? So spinoff.

By the way, I have that book. Bought it for the One Day At A Time chapter. Disappointing though, because it only covers season one.

My sentiments exactly.

[Wawwie]

Originally Posted by opus

Haven't we covered the fact that Norman Lear took pre existing material and twisted it in the Maude universe? So spinoff.

By the way, I have that book. Bought it for the One Day At A Time chapter. Disappointing though, because it only covers season one.

I think this is the one and only time that I disagree with opus. Regarding this topic, I totally agree with TVFactFan.

[TVFactFan]

Originally Posted by Wawwie

I think this is the one and only time that I disagree with opus. Regarding this topic, I totally agree with TVFactFan.

I just called it what it was.......Norman Lear Comedy like One Day at a Time

[Wawwie]

Originally Posted by TVFactFan

I just called it what it was.......Norman Lear Comedy like One Day at a Time

Yep, and you and me both never believed that Good Times was any spin off of Maude. Henry who changed his name to James, quit his well paying fireman job in New York City, decided to become a part time dishwasher and car wash attendant, packed up the family to move to a ghetto in Chicago. Yeah, that all makes a lot of sense.

[TVFactFan]

Originally Posted by Wawwie

Yep, and you and me both never believed that Good Times was any spin off of Maude. Henry who changed his name to James, quit his well paying fireman job in New York City, decided to become a part time dishwasher and car wash attendant, packed up the family to move to a ghetto in Chicago. Yeah, that all makes a lot of sense.

Bet tons of GT fans dont even know who Maude is and was shocked when florida said.........."when I was a maid?

[Wawwie]

Originally Posted by TVFactFan

Bet tons of GT fans dont even know who Maude is and was shocked when florida said.........."when I was a maid?

Yeah, and that's because if it was truly a spin off, Florida would have said "when I was a maid working for Maude Findlay..."

Not a spin off!

[TVFactFan]

Originally Posted by Wawwie

Yeah, and that's because if it was truly a spin off, Florida would have said "when I was a maid working for Maude Findlay..."

Not a spin off!

Exactly

[TVLegend]

Here, Monte talks about What’s Happening!!, The Jeffersons, Sanford and Son, and most importantly, Good Times. He specifically states how Lear to his “Back Family” idea and plagiarized it to promote the Florida Evans character, who was introduced on Maude, being spun off to her own show, known as Good Times, without his name being in the credits whatsoever. Find it hard to believe that Lear would deny this.

[BestTVever]

This is a foolish debate and someone always wants to get in the last word. There are numerous videos on youtube from the actors stating during their casting call, they were told it was a spin off from Maude.

Just because its not the typical spin off where characters from the old show appear, does not exclude it from being a spin off. Florida made Maude a hit. She was an independent black woman who put Maude in her place. She was so popular that Lear gave Florida her own show. Her name stayed the same and in one episode of Good Times, she even referred to her maid days. The show was created from a character from the Maude show. That alone proves it was a spin off. There are even TV articles from 1974 reviewing the show as a spin off from Maude. How can you build a show around a character from another show and not call it a spin off. If there was no Maude, there would be no Florida. With no Florida, there would be no Good Times.
You cant view life in simple black and white. Some spin offs rely on the original show to carry them through while others dont. Just look at the Jeffersons. No one from All in the Family ever appeared on The Jeffersons yet it was a spin off from All in the Family. The Jeffersons appeared on All in the family and they were given their own show. The show was written to never mention Archie and the old days. The show went in a whole new direction. Yet its still a spin off.
You lose the argument claiming Florida's character from Maude did not inspire Good Times. Look at the spin off Jackie from 227. The show was created based on a character from another show which in itself is a definition of a spin off.
Sitcoms in themselves lose continuity in their own show. There is a Golden Girls episode that mentions the girls having a swimming pool yet there was not a pool. Its laughable for those to claim because Florida's husband's name changed in the new show proves it was not a spin off. Really? Every sitcom changes things that dont make sense from earlier episodes. Its called writing scripts. Writers for sitcoms rarely care about continuity. Oh yeah lets not pretend her name was Florida on both shows Just a coincidence that a popular character left one show with the name of Florida and just coincidently appeared on another show with the same name. I mean, what are the chances

[Mr. Television]

Originally Posted by BestTVever

This is a foolish debate and someone always wants to get in the last word. There are numerous videos on youtube from the actors stating during their casting call, they were told it was a spin off from Maude.

Just because its not the typical spin off where characters from the old show appear, does not exclude it from being a spin off. Florida made Maude a hit. She was an independent black woman who put Maude in her place. She was so popular that Lear gave Florida her own show. Her name stayed the same and in one episode of Good Times, she even referred to her maid days. The show was created from a character from the Maude show. That alone proves it was a spin off. There are even TV articles from 1974 reviewing the show as a spin off from Maude. How can you build a show around a character from another show and not call it a spin off. If there was no Maude, there would be no Florida. With no Florida, there would be no Good Times.
You cant view life in simple black and white. Some spin offs rely on the original show to carry them through while others dont. Just look at the Jeffersons. No one from All in the Family ever appeared on The Jeffersons yet it was a spin off from All in the Family. The Jeffersons appeared on All in the family and they were given their own show. The show was written to never mention Archie and the old days. The show went in a whole new direction. Yet its still a spin off.
You lose the argument claiming Florida's character from Maude did not inspire Good Times. Look at the spin off Jackie from 227. The show was created based on a character from another show which in itself is a definition of a spin off.
Sitcoms in themselves lose continuity in their own show. There is a Golden Girls episode that mentions the girls having a swimming pool yet there was not a pool. Its laughable for those to claim because Florida's husband's name changed in the new show proves it was not a spin off. Really? Every sitcom changes things that dont make sense from earlier episodes. Its called writing scripts. Writers for sitcoms rarely care about continuity. Oh yeah lets not pretend her name was Florida on both shows Just a coincidence that a popular character left one show with the name of Florida and just coincidently appeared on another show with the same name. I mean, what are the chances

The difference is that the pilot for the Jeffersons aired on an episode of AITF. Archie was mentioned on the Jeffersons at least once that I do remember and George even guest starred on AITF after his show was already on the air. No mention of Maude in GT at all.

Finally coming around to Solomon's way of thinking. lol

[TVLegend]

Originally Posted by Mr. Television

The difference is that the pilot for the Jeffersons aired on an episode of AITF. Archie was mentioned on the Jeffersons at least once that I do remember and George even guest starred on AITF after his show was already on the air. No mention of Maude in GT at all.

Finally coming around to Solomon's way of thinking. lol

Well, I’m still sticking to my side. You can’t erase what when on on Maude and the events that led to Good Times: to my understanding, it’s Florida Evans on both Maude AND Good Times, played by the same actress. James’s name might’ve changed from Henry to James when he and Florida went on to Good Times, but he was still played by the same actor, John Amos. Also, I think Florida mentions three kids on Maude. Look at The Beverly Hillbillies and Petticoat Junction. You still do consider Petticoat Junction a spinoff, don’t you?

[TVFactFan]

Originally Posted by BestTVever

This is a foolish debate and someone always wants to get in the last word. There are numerous videos on youtube from the actors stating during their casting call, they were told it was a spin off from Maude.

Just because its not the typical spin off where characters from the old show appear, does not exclude it from being a spin off. Florida made Maude a hit. She was an independent black woman who put Maude in her place. She was so popular that Lear gave Florida her own show. Her name stayed the same and in one episode of Good Times, she even referred to her maid days. The show was created from a character from the Maude show. That alone proves it was a spin off. There are even TV articles from 1974 reviewing the show as a spin off from Maude. How can you build a show around a character from another show and not call it a spin off. If there was no Maude, there would be no Florida. With no Florida, there would be no Good Times.
You cant view life in simple black and white. Some spin offs rely on the original show to carry them through while others dont. Just look at the Jeffersons. No one from All in the Family ever appeared on The Jeffersons yet it was a spin off from All in the Family. The Jeffersons appeared on All in the family and they were given their own show. The show was written to never mention Archie and the old days. The show went in a whole new direction. Yet its still a spin off.
You lose the argument claiming Florida's character from Maude did not inspire Good Times. Look at the spin off Jackie from 227. The show was created based on a character from another show which in itself is a definition of a spin off.
Sitcoms in themselves lose continuity in their own show. There is a Golden Girls episode that mentions the girls having a swimming pool yet there was not a pool. Its laughable for those to claim because Florida's husband's name changed in the new show proves it was not a spin off. Really? Every sitcom changes things that dont make sense from earlier episodes. Its called writing scripts. Writers for sitcoms rarely care about continuity. Oh yeah lets not pretend her name was Florida on both shows Just a coincidence that a popular character left one show with the name of Florida and just coincidently appeared on another show with the same name. I mean, what are the chances

All bad examples, Jeffersons had a pilot ep for AITF and Jackee was a 227 episode that was a pilot and featured Pearl as a guest. No where near the GT situation

[BestTVever]

Originally Posted by TVFactFan

All bad examples, Jeffersons had a pilot ep for AITF and Jackee was a 227 episode that was a pilot and featured Pearl as a guest. No where near the GT situation

You tend to focus on tiny details that are not relevant to what a spin off is. Its the "what aboutism" that is sweeping the country. When people refuse to accept facts, its always........what about ___________

The bottom line is NO ONE can deny Florida left Maude to be cast in anther show where she was the head of the house. The inspiration from Good Times came from Maude's housekeeper who made Maude a hit.
You think Jimmy is lying when he said he was given the script of Good Times and told it was a spin off of Maude? But what about The Jeffersons pilot appearing in the All in the Family show? You see. You keep playing the What about stuff without acknowledging what happened to Florida on the hit show Maude? She got her own show.
Maude and Good Times are different shows and not very much alike. Point taken but Florida got her own show and was sprung there by Maude.