Anyone surprised Buffy got to keep its 8pm timeslot?

[Christopher]

Every Tuesday I watch Buffy and Supernatural while getting ready for work. Today, it was Same Time, Same Place. This episode was sick just like some of the season 6 episodes. Willow laying helplessly while some demon is ripping her skin off in strips and the demon eating it. I'm surprise with some of the stuff Buffy was able to get away with in its 8pm timeslot. That's usually family hour of television, or at least it was back in the day. Television had to be fluffy in that 8pm hour. I can't imagine what kids were thinking flipping through the channels and watch Willow skin a guy alive setting him on fire or Willow getting her skin ripped off as a demon eats it. I bet some kids had questions

[RetroGuy2000]

My goodness, yes. Season 6 was incredibly dark. But at the time, I remember reading a TV Guide article stating that UPN, the network that Buffy had just moved to, had no standards and practices department, unlike other networks.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Season 6 was incredibly dark.

Ya know, I understand the importance of season 6 and how huge it was for Joss to do these type of stories for a supernatural show. It was really unusual for supernatural shows to have realistic stories in them. But when Tara dies, I found myself wanting to go back to the happier episodes of Sunnydale High where it was lighter stories. I really love the Evil Willow story, or Wicked Willow, whatever it's officially called. It was great seeing Willow develop and realize she had a problem. But man, the show stopped feeling like it was about Buffy and her friends fighting evil during those episodes. It was greatly written but just an entirely different side to the show.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

But at the time, I remember reading a TV Guide article stating that UPN, the network that Buffy had just moved to, had no standards and practices department, unlike other networks.

Buffy's the only show I watched on UPN so I wonder if other shows got away with things? Even Seeing Red was kind of envelop pushing where the episode begins with Willow and Tara appearing naked in bed with covers over them. Buffy really grew up to mature audience scenes that first year on UPN.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Christopher

Ya know, I understand the importance of season 6 and how huge it was for Joss to do these type of stories for a supernatural show. It was really unusual for supernatural shows to have realistic stories in them. But when Tara dies, I found myself wanting to go back to the happier episodes of Sunnydale High where it was lighter stories. I really love the Evil Willow story, or Wicked Willow, whatever it's officially called. It was great seeing Willow develop and realize she had a problem. But man, the show stopped feeling like it was about Buffy and her friends fighting evil during those episodes. It was greatly written but just an entirely different side to the show.

Dark Willow was great drama on the show. And as you say, the lighter moments were quite lost during that season. No-one was making silly ad-libs while staking vampires. It became a very different kind of show. "Seeing Red" and "Same Time, Same Place" are great examples of the incredibly dark tone.

For me, this darkness is presaged in Season 5 (my favorite) with "The Body", the saddest episode ever. It goes to such a dark place for so much of the episode. Especially the moment where Joyce is revived. And then that terrible moment when you realize it's not real: the doctor says, "Good as new!" And then you know. And it cuts to reality. And it's awful. And Joyce is laying there. And she will never have fruit punch.

Season 6 is my second-least favorite season. It gets too dark for me, and although there are wonderful episodes and moments, the Trio is too stupid to take seriously. I guess that's why Tara's death is so shocking.

Buffy's the only show I watched on UPN so I wonder if other shows got away with things?

WWE's show on UPN did. They originally allowed wrestlers to say "suck it!" which was previously forbidden on network TV. Eventually, UPN was forced to rein that in when thousands of parents complained. The wrestlers could still make the gesture, but they couldn't say the words. And UPN still didn't have standards and practices; it was just a verbal agreement between the WWE and UPN to not say "Suck it!" So they changed it to something like, "You know what you can do!" [make gesture] and then the audience would shout the words the wrestlers were not allowed to say. Oh brother.

Even Seeing Red was kind of envelop pushing where the episode begins with Willow and Tara appearing naked in bed with covers over them. Buffy really grew up to mature audience scenes that first year on UPN.

It really did. Actually, I feel like they pushed the envelope every season. But S6 is so obvious because it got so dark... and stayed dark for so many episodes. S7 sure seems equally dark to me.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Dark Willow was great drama on the show. And as you say, the lighter moments were quite lost during that season. No-one was making silly ad-libs while staking vampires. It became a very different kind of show. "Seeing Red" and "Same Time, Same Place" are great examples of the incredibly dark tone.

The main funny episodes of season 6 to me are Tabula Rasa, Gone, and Doublemeat Palace. These episodes all have moments that get me laughing my butt off. From "Randy Giles? Why not call me horny Giles or desperate for a shag Giles? I knew there was a reason I hated you." to "It's magic weed" and "It's people! Maybe not the chicken, but who knows! WHO KNOWS!" Everything else though didn't seem that funny. Dead Things is when the show really became dramatic because of the story for the nerds and what they did to Warren's ex.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

For me, this darkness is presaged in Season 5 (my favorite) with "The Body", the saddest episode ever. It goes to such a dark place for so much of the episode. Especially the moment where Joyce is revived. And then that terrible moment when you realize it's not real: the doctor says, "Good as new!" And then you know. And it cuts to reality. And it's awful. And Joyce is laying there. And she will never have fruit punch.

I agree The Body is the saddest episode ever. I loved hearing Sarah say in the reunion they had a few years ago that she fought hard not to have Joyce killed off. Joss used Buffy a lot of times to bring his real life experiences to the show and it worked.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Season 6 is my second-least favorite season. It gets too dark for me, and although there are wonderful episodes and moments, the Trio is too stupid to take seriously. I guess that's why Tara's death is so shocking.

Warren was the only smart one in the trio. He was purely evil. Jonathan was too scared and noble to be a villain. Andrew was weird and scared as well to do evil things. He was manipulated by Warren because he was obviously in love with him. Out of the trio, only Warren had the guts to do the evil things they were doing. He was a psychopath because he had no remorse for the things he did. That's what made shooting Buffy so easy for him in broad daylight where witnesses could see him.

Season 6 isn't my least favorite. Season 1 and 4 hold those spots. Season 4 was wonderful with the introduction of Tara and the Gentlemen. However, Riley and the whole army military story brought the shows' quality down A LOT! We didn't need a silly story like that brought it.

I consider seasons 2, 3, 5, and 6 the shows outstanding seasons. Each season has a story that stands out making it memorable. Season 2's story of Buffy and Angel was huge back in the day. Season 3 had an evil slayer which was fun to see continue in season 4 and then season 1 of Angel. Season 5 has the evil God story and Buffy's mom dying a realistic death. Season 6 has the characters grow up to where almost every single fan could relate to one of their issues.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

WWE's show on UPN did. They originally allowed wrestlers to say "suck it!" which was previously forbidden on network TV. Eventually, UPN was forced to rein that in when thousands of parents complained. The wrestlers could still make the gesture, but they couldn't say the words. And UPN still didn't have standards and practices; it was just a verbal agreement between the WWE and UPN to not say "Suck it!" So they changed it to something like, "You know what you can do!" [make gesture] and then the audience would shout the words the wrestlers were not allowed to say. Oh brother.

Isn't this show fake? I never watched it but I was told by a few friends who coach wrestling in the schools that all the wrestling shows we see on TV are fake.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

It really did. Actually, I feel like they pushed the envelope every season. But S6 is so obvious because it got so dark... and stayed dark for so many episodes. S7 sure seems equally dark to me.

The darkest episode in season 7 to me is Help. We've all been in a situation where we want to help someone and then to realize we can't, hurts a lot. Buffy's line at the end always gets me. "What do you when you know that? When you know that maybe you can't help?" Buffy wanted to so badly help this young girl from dying and couldn't. It was awful.

Thank God we got Him a couple of episodes later because it was back to laughing your butt off again.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Christopher

The main funny episodes of season 6 to me are Tabula Rasa, Gone, and Doublemeat Palace. These episodes all have moments that get me laughing my butt off. From "Randy Giles? Why not call me horny Giles or desperate for a shag Giles? I knew there was a reason I hated you." to "It's magic weed" and "It's people! Maybe not the chicken, but who knows! WHO KNOWS!" Everything else though didn't seem that funny. Dead Things is when the show really became dramatic because of the story for the nerds and what they did to Warren's ex.

Tabula Rasa is hilarious! And the sight of Buffy pulling food out of people's grips in Doublemeat Palace is also very funny.

I agree The Body is the saddest episode ever. I loved hearing Sarah say in the reunion they had a few years ago that she fought hard not to have Joyce killed off. Joss used Buffy a lot of times to bring his real life experiences to the show and it worked.

Yeah, I remember Sarah saying she didn't want Joyce killed off. I do believe Joss was 100% for sure drawing from his own experience with his mom's death.

Season 6 isn't my least favorite. Season 1 and 4 hold those spots. Season 4 was wonderful with the introduction of Tara and the Gentlemen. However, Riley and the whole army military story brought the shows' quality down A LOT! We didn't need a silly story like that brought it.

S4 has wonderful individual episodes. As you say, Adam and the Initiative were not good Big Bads.

S1 was very early on. There are still good episodes, but not the robot episodes.

I consider seasons 2, 3, 5, and 6 the shows outstanding seasons.

For me, it is seasons 2, 3, 5, and 7.

Each season has a story that stands out making it memorable. Season 2's story of Buffy and Angel was huge back in the day. Season 3 had an evil slayer which was fun to see continue in season 4 and then season 1 of Angel.

Yep! "If I were her, I'd get the hell out of Dodge post-haste-​y."

"Well, you're NOT me." [Faith turns around]

Season 5 has the evil God story and Buffy's mom dying a realistic death.

And the overarching theme of "family". Plus that amazing scene where Buffy looks at the photo of Dawn, and Dawn keeps flickering out.

Isn't this show fake? I never watched it but I was told by a few friends who coach wrestling in the schools that all the wrestling shows we see on TV are fake.

Yes. The fakest fakery that ever was faked. It's all scripted.

The darkest episode in season 7 to me is Help.

For me, it is "Selfless". OMG, Anya!

And, of course, "Conversations with Dead People", which won a Hugo Award. So dark, so scary. When the knocking starts, I start shivering.