Buffy 24 years later

[shotzette]

During the pandemic, my husband and I have started to re-watch a lot of our old shows. I was a BtVS fan from day one because I had watched SMG on All My Children and thought she was a wonderful actress. My husband watched some of the later seasons with me, out of order and context, and while he enjoyed the show, he'd never been completely knee deep in the Buffyverse.

I don't agree with all of these, but I do with some of them. We have only recently started into Season 5.

Buffy musings from the Hubby:

• The writing and the directing on Season 1 is awful
• Was Xander supposed to be such an A-hole?
• Alyson Hannigan is 23? She looks like she's 14
• I guess David Boreanz hadn't gone to acting school before Season 2
• Joyce is a ridiculously negligent mom
• Giles should sing in every episode
• Spike needs to be in every episode
• Oz needs to be in every episode
• Juliet Landau's parents are who??
• Please tell me Riley will die soon
• Is that Pedro Pascal??

Does anyone else like re-watching a show they love with their S.O.? It's simultaneously fun and cringeworthy watching it through their eyes.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by shotzette

During the pandemic, my husband and I have started to re-watch a lot of our old shows. I was a BtVS fan from day one because I had watched SMG on All My Children and thought she was a wonderful actress. My husband watched some of the later seasons with me, out of order and context, and while he enjoyed the show, he'd never been completely knee deep in the Buffyverse.

I don't agree with all of these, but I do with some of them. We have only recently started into Season 5.

Ah, my favorite season!

Buffy musings from the Hubby:

• The writing and the directing on Season 1 is awful

They had no budget during S1. It was a mid-season replacement on a network no-one had even heard of, based on a movie that had bombed, watched on local channels where you needed tin foil hanging from the rabbit ears. I think the S1 writing is not bad, actually, though it will soon be polished. Certainly, from the opening moments, there were some surprises... like Darla being a vampire.

• Was Xander supposed to be such an A-hole?

Yes. He was supposed to provide conflict in a way Willow could not.

• Alyson Hannigan is 23? She looks like she's 14

She was perfectly cast, IMO.

• I guess David Boreanz hadn't gone to acting school before Season 2

I've got no problem with DB's acting in S1.

• Joyce is a ridiculously negligent mom

Did Mr. Shotzette see "Gingerbread"? She actually goes overboard there.

• Please tell me Riley will die soon

Does anyone else like re-watching a show they love with their S.O.? It's simultaneously fun and cringeworthy watching it through their eyes.

No, but there are tons of Buffy episode reactions by couples (one fan, one noob), and you need to check them out.

Here's one example!

[Torgo]

Love Buffy The Vampire Slayer, it was must see TV for me when it originally aired.

I will say I'm not the biggest fan of the Riley episodes, still don't like Adam. The best thing to come from that part of the show is Spike having to stay with Xander in his parent's basement.

And yes, I've watched shows with my wife that I love and she had never seen before, some she liked, others not so much, and same with shows she likes, there's some I just could not get in to. Same with movies, and even books.

[shotzette]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Ah, my favorite season!

[/LIST]They had no budget during S1. It was a mid-season replacement on a network no-one had even heard of, based on a movie that had bombed, watched on local channels where you needed tin foil hanging from the rabbit ears. I think the S1 writing is not bad, actually, though it will soon be polished. Certainly, from the opening moments, there were some surprises... like Darla being a vampire.



[/LIST]Yes. He was supposed to provide conflict in a way Willow could not.


[/LIST]She was perfectly cast, IMO.


[/LIST]I've got no problem with DB's acting in S1.





Did Mr. Shotzette see "Gingerbread"? She actually goes overboard there.


[/LIST]



No, but there are tons of Buffy episode reactions by couples (one fan, one noob), and you need to check them out.

Here's one example!

LOL!

I agree, I think Season 1 was rough due to timing and budget issues--not to mention they recast Willow after the pilot and had to reshoot many scenes. My big takeaway from S1 is how cute SMG looked. She looked like a pretty, popular, high school girl who was active and ate healthy food. Her skeletal appearance in later seasons was really disturbing.

I swear, I don't remember Xander being an A-hole in S1, but I do think he became the "Dr. McCoy" of the show in later seasons.


I think he was shocked to see David Boreanaz look so young. He watched the later seasons of BtVS with me and was a HUGE Angel, Bones, and SEAL Team fan.

Oh, and he can't stand Tara. I've told him that she'll grow on him. Yes, I'm probably one of the few Tara fans out there, LOL.

[shotzette]

Originally Posted by Torgo

Love Buffy The Vampire Slayer, it was must see TV for me when it originally aired.

I will say I'm not the biggest fan of the Riley episodes, still don't like Adam. The best thing to come from that part of the show is Spike having to stay with Xander in his parent's basement.

And yes, I've watched shows with my wife that I love and she had never seen before, some she liked, others not so much, and same with shows she likes, there's some I just could not get in to. Same with movies, and even books.

I love Spike and Xander as a team! They have more similarities than differences, IMO.

I agree with you regarding the Adam storyline. It just didn't work for me at all.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by shotzette

I think he was shocked to see David Boreanaz look so young. He watched the later seasons of BtVS with me and was a HUGE Angel, Bones, and SEAL Team fan.

I can't get into Angel. Wolfram & Hart should have been a one season villain. Having them last the whole run watered down the other main villains in the show. I was really looking forward to Darla and Dru having a long run in season 2, but it was cut short so we could get back to more antics from the law firm.

Originally Posted by shotzette

Oh, and he can't stand Tara. I've told him that she'll grow on him. Yes, I'm probably one of the few Tara fans out there, LOL.

I love Tara. Her and Willow are my favorite TV couple. They are the definition of actual love. They had their problems, worked on them, took a break, and then got back together again. They worked on staying together even on their break. That's rare to see. You knew it was actual love between them and not mixed feelings. I always hate when I get to the end of season 6 because I know that loving relationship is ending.

Anya and Xander were another couple I enjoyed until Xander ruined it. I remember wishing it was him that had been killed in the finale and not Anya Anya deserved so much better than what she got in the show.

[shotzette]

Originally Posted by Christopher

Anya and Xander were another couple I enjoyed until Xander ruined it. I remember wishing it was him that had been killed in the finale and not Anya Anya deserved so much better than what she got in the show.

I agree. I understand the need for conflict in storytelling, but unrealistic conflict just makes the character unlikeable. I didn't realize until the re-watch that Joss was already planting the "Xander is a jerk" seeds. Willow, even at her most homicidal, was the more sympathetic character.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by shotzette

LOL!

I agree, I think Season 1 was rough due to timing and budget issues--not to mention they recast Willow after the pilot and had to reshoot many scenes. My big takeaway from S1 is how cute SMG looked. She looked like a pretty, popular, high school girl who was active and ate healthy food. Her skeletal appearance in later seasons was really disturbing.

I agree she was way too thin later on.

I swear, I don't remember Xander being an A-hole in S1, but I do think he became the "Dr. McCoy" of the show in later seasons.

As in argumentative? Or wore a lot of blue?

Oh, and he can't stand Tara. I've told him that she'll grow on him. Yes, I'm probably one of the few Tara fans out there, LOL.

Tara's a solid character. The kindest Scooby. Sh's understated... She's no Cordy or Spike or Anya, but she gets the job done.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Christopher

I was really looking forward to Darla and Dru having a long run in season 2, but it was cut short so we could get back to more antics from the law firm.

More Darla/Dru would have been wonderful. Those four had amazing chemistry in the flashbacks. We could have had a half a season in the 1800s.

I always hate when I get to the end of season 6 because I know that loving relationship is ending.

It sure is painful, and on so many levels.

At the time Willow and Tara became a thing, there was nothing like them on network television, and never had been. Teenage lesbian lovers. It was groundbreaking. The biggest depiction of teenage lesbianism on network TV since Cindy's questioning of her sexuality on The Facts of Life, back in 1979. So the end of W/T was the end of something incredibly rare and special.

...I cannot abide Kennedy.

Anya and Xander were another couple I enjoyed until Xander ruined it. I remember wishing it was him that had been killed in the finale and not Anya Anya deserved so much better than what she got in the show.

I didn't want him dead, but I wanted him to fix it. In any way necessary.

[shotzette]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I agree she was way too thin later on.



As in argumentative? Or wore a lot of blue?

Maybe I should have said Pulaski?

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by shotzette

Maybe I should have said Pulaski?

Only on for one season? Sorry, I don't get the reference.

[shotzette]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Only on for one season? Sorry, I don't get the reference.

Dr. Pulaski was a character who was on S2 of Star Trek: The Next Generation. She had the abrasiveness of Dr. McCoy, but none of the humanity or warmth. She only lasted the one season.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by shotzette

Dr. Pulaski was a character who was on S2 of Star Trek: The Next Generation.

This part I know.

She had the abrasiveness of Dr. McCoy, but none of the humanity or warmth.

Oh, ok. I don't feel Xander was that way, though. He could be abrasive, but he was also warm and caring.

She only lasted the one season.

Yeah, that's what I thought you might have meant, and then I was confused, because Xander was on for all seven seasons.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

More Darla/Dru would have been wonderful. Those four had amazing chemistry in the flashbacks. We could have had a half a season in the 1800s.

I thought they were going to have more than just two or three episodes that year creating havoc. Dru is insane. Joss screwed up so badly letting her go so soon. The whole purpose of Darla being good was creating that moment to make her evil again. That didn't last long. Everything in Angel gets rushed up so we can see the law firm doing their vengeance against Angel. It's boring to me. It feels like A on Pretty Little Liars lasting the whole 7 years. Fans always wondered when will it end

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

At the time Willow and Tara became a thing, there was nothing like them on network television, and never had been. Teenage lesbian lovers. It was groundbreaking. The biggest depiction of teenage lesbianism on network TV since Cindy's questioning of her sexuality on The Facts of Life, back in 1979. So the end of W/T was the end of something incredibly rare and special.

I remember that group, One Million Moms, fought so hard to get Buffy canceled when Willow became gay. It was a huge thing because not that long ago Ellen had received so many death threats for coming out. That was a big risk Joss took making Willow gay and having one of the first same sex kisses on television. Melrose Place tried in 1994 and FOX said "no" and had them stop it. At least The WB was open minded.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

...I cannot abide Kennedy.

I just remembered all the hate Kennedy got when she was introduced. It's not that I didn't hate Kennedy, but I felt it was way too soon for Willow to date again. She went through an incredible ordeal and not even a year has passed that she is now dating? I get that it was Kennedy who really pushed and forced her way in, but Willow should have been firm saying no.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I didn't want him dead, but I wanted him to fix it. In any way necessary.

That was my feeling almost 20 years ago when I first saw the finale. I was so team Anya and to see her hurt so bad in Hell's Bells was sad to watch. She just wanted to be loved and experience all the things humans go through. I remember Emma was done with the show because she said before the finale it was time for her to leave. She compared her stay to high school saying 4 years is a good run but it was time for her to move on. I guess Joss took her comments in a way that it was ok to kill her off

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Christopher

I thought they were going to have more than just two or three episodes that year creating havoc. Dru is insane.

Yes, and her insanity created one of the funniest lines on the series, IMO:

Darla: "I think our boys are going to fight!"
Drusilla: "The King of Cups expects a picnic. But this is not his birthday!"
Darla (humoring her): "Good point."

Joss screwed up so badly letting her go so soon. The whole purpose of Darla being good was creating that moment to make her evil again. That didn't last long. Everything in Angel gets rushed up so we can see the law firm doing their vengeance against Angel. It's boring to me.

I definitely would have preferred more Angelus/William/Darla/Drucilla over Wolfram and Yawn.

I remember that group, One Million Moms, fought so hard to get Buffy canceled when Willow became gay. It was a huge thing because not that long ago Ellen had received so many death threats for coming out. That was a big risk Joss took making Willow gay and having one of the first same sex kisses on television. Melrose Place tried in 1994 and FOX said "no" and had them stop it. At least The WB was open minded.

Joss absolutely was groundbreaking when it came to giving gay people representation on TV, which is why it was so heartbreaking to see Charisma state that he wasn't the enlightened guy everybody thought he was... and then a half a dozen of the ladies backed Charisma up on that. I mean, we always knew "something" had happened behind the scenes, but nothing about what Charisma had actually experienced.

I just remembered all the hate Kennedy got when she was introduced. It's not that I didn't hate Kennedy, but I felt it was way too soon for Willow to date again. She went through an incredible ordeal and not even a year has passed that she is now dating?

Yes. Far, FAR too soon. And not with Kennedy, with whom Willow had NO chemistry.

I get that it was Kennedy who really pushed and forced her way in, but Willow should have been firm saying no.

Yep.

That was my feeling almost 20 years ago when I first saw the finale. I was so team Anya and to see her hurt so bad in Hell's Bells was sad to watch. She just wanted to be loved and experience all the things humans go through. I remember Emma was done with the show because she said before the finale it was time for her to leave. She compared her stay to high school saying 4 years is a good run but it was time for her to move on. I guess Joss took her comments in a way that it was ok to kill her off

Emma is one of the few BtVS cast members I've met in person, and she's truly lovely. As you say, Emma was done with the show... but I didn't want Anya killed off. How cool would it have been to be able to see her today, growing "old", confronting her mortality?