Doctor Who Rewatch

[Christopher]

I've been rewatching Doctor Who recently and found something odd in the Martha Jones season. The previous season the doctor had Rose change clothes when they would go back in time. He always had a different outfit for her. With Martha, she wears her same outfit from her birthday night. It's bad enough she keeps getting Rose thrown in her face in how she'll never be like her, but it's like he doesn't care when people point out how odd she dresses when they're back in time. Martha is so much better than Rose that it sucks how she's treated in her beginning episodes.

[RetroGuy2000]

I started watching Doctor Who in 1985, and have watched most of the eras, from the 1963 episodes to the early Capaldi episodes.

There was such emphasis on Rose, starting with the very first reboot episode, "Rose", that any new character would have been eclipsed by Rose. Martha does get short shrift, in comparison to the glorious, exalted Rose. As you say, there's so much less attention paid to her, including even how she dresses.

However... seeing Martha's character development and the recognition she gets in comparison to earlier companions on Doctor Who, Martha is treated quite well. Some companions (like Dodo) didn't even get a farewell scene, and some companions (like Vicki and the original Sara, Sara Kingdom) even had their names reused by later companions. Their episodes were even thrown away, so we can never watch them. Of course, this is Classic Who, rather than New Who, but I was just grateful to get companions who feel as though (almost) as much attention is paid to them as the Doctor: they don't just leave a message for the Doctor telling him they're taking off, and he's all, "Meh."

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

There was such emphasis on Rose, starting with the very first reboot episode, "Rose", that any new character would have been eclipsed by Rose. Martha does get short shrift, in comparison to the glorious, exalted Rose. As you say, there's so much less attention paid to her, including even how she dresses.

In Martha's second episode with Shakespeare, the doctor tells Martha if Rose was there she would tell him what he needs to know. WTH?!?! Then when he takes her to the future, he goes to the place he took Rose. Martha was in Rose's shadow these first few episodes. I feel so bad for her.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

However... seeing Martha's character development and the recognition she gets in comparison to earlier companions on Doctor Who, Martha is treated quite well. Some companions (like Dodo) didn't even get a farewell scene, and some companions (like Vicki and the original Sara, Sara Kingdom) even had their names reused by later companions. Their episodes were even thrown away, so we can never watch them. Of course, this is Classic Who, rather than New Who, but I was just grateful to get companions who feel as though (almost) as much attention is paid to them as the Doctor: they don't just leave a message for the Doctor telling him they're taking off, and he's all, "Meh."

I've only seen the ninth, tenth, and some of the eleventh doctors seasons. I also watched the Doctor Who movie with Eric Roberts. I think that one was the eighth doctor? I thought about watching the old Doctor Who but I don't know how well they hold up in today's times. Old shows don't bother me. I still watch the 60's Dark Shadows because I love gothic supernatural stories. Which classic Doctor Who season would you recommend to someone watching?

I haven't gotten to this Martha Jones episode yet in my rewatch but my favorite one is when they go back in time where the doctor uses the watch to forget who he is. It's a two parter. I remember when I watched it how suspenseful it was. Martha was the only one with her memories to help the doctor remember who he was. I can't wait to get to those. She does get treated better later on. I love how strong Martha is and doesn't get obsessed with the doctor like Rose did.

Oh and Runaway Bride has to be the best Christmas special. I love Donna so much even before all her character development in season 4. I don't remember the space ship voyage special that well but I do remember David's last Christmas special was a dud. It's fun rewatching these episodes again. It's been over a decade for me since I last watched them.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Christopher

In Martha's second episode with Shakespeare, the doctor tells Martha if Rose was there she would tell him what he needs to know. WTH?!?! Then when he takes her to the future, he goes to the place he took Rose. Martha was in Rose's shadow these first few episodes. I feel so bad for her.

Martha definitely was in Rose's shadow, but she does eventually come into her own. I feel like they did this on purpose because of the huge emphasis on Rose during the "Rose era".

I've only seen the ninth, tenth, and some of the eleventh doctors seasons. I also watched the Doctor Who movie with Eric Roberts. I think that one was the eighth doctor?

Yep. Paul McGann.

I thought about watching the old Doctor Who but I don't know how well they hold up in today's times. Old shows don't bother me. I still watch the 60's Dark Shadows because I love gothic supernatural stories. Which classic Doctor Who season would you recommend to someone watching?

That depends. Did you like/see The Day of the Doctor? It was the 2013 Doctor Who 50th Anniversary special, and every Doctor was in it.

Tom Baker's era of Doctor Who is widely seen as the most popular, and for good reason: the scripts are tight, the acting is good, and the stories are well-told. Pacing is much slower than in the modern era, but the stories hold up. IMDB has a list of the most popular Classic Who stories, rated by viewers, and Tom Baker's eps are mostly at the top. Whether his companion is Sarah Jane, or one of the Romanas, those are mostly great episodes. And since you love gothic supernatural stories, there plenty of those in that era, especially seasons 13 and 14.

My favorite doctor remains William Hartnell, the first Doctor. This is the very, very beginning of the show, and British television was still very primitive at the time. There were very limited FX budgets, and the pacing is very slow by modern standards, but GQ rated the first season of the show as the 12th best of all time, and the second season as #15. Whether the Doctor's companions are Susan, Ian, and Barbara, or Vicki and Steven, they are enjoyable. (There are so many missing episodes after the first two seasons that the remaining episodes can't entirely be enjoyed). Some fans prefer to start at the very beginning, and these are where those people should start.

I haven't gotten to this Martha Jones episode yet in my rewatch but my favorite one is when they go back in time where the doctor uses the watch to forget who he is. It's a two parter. I remember when I watched it how suspenseful it was. Martha was the only one with her memories to help the doctor remember who he was.

Yep, "Human Nature"! GREAT episodes!

Oh and Runaway Bride has to be the best Christmas special. I love Donna so much even before all her character development in season 4. I don't remember the space ship voyage special that well but I do remember David's last Christmas special was a dud. It's fun rewatching these episodes again. It's been over a decade for me since I last watched them.

Donna was awesome. I eventually need to do a re-watch myself.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Martha definitely was in Rose's shadow, but she does eventually come into her own. I feel like they did this on purpose because of the huge emphasis on Rose during the "Rose era".

I don't know how majority of the DW fans feel but Rose creeped me out. She was way too obsessed with the doctor. It wasn't love she had. She was willing to give up her family, friends, her own identity, everything she had just to be in the doctor's life. It was major fatal attraction going on there. When I was watching season 2 a couple of days ago, almost every episode has her hanging on him and making goo goo eyes at him. When Sarah Jane returned, Rose just gave her so many nasty looks. I almost thought Rose was going to give her a beat down for coming back. It wasn't normal how Rose was acting. I'm so glad the tenth doctor didn't get stuck with her through his whole run.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

That depends. Did you like/see The Day of the Doctor? It was the 2013 Doctor Who 50th Anniversary special, and every Doctor was in it.

I have not seen this. My TV viewing was very limited that year. I just looked it up and saw Billie makes an appearance. More Rose Did she meet Amy? Those two are a lot of alike. I remember Matt Smith's first season had Amy acting just like Rose with a huge obsession of wanting to be with the doctor even though they had a boyfriend.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Tom Baker's era of Doctor Who is widely seen as the most popular, and for good reason: the scripts are tight, the acting is good, and the stories are well-told. Pacing is much slower than in the modern era, but the stories hold up. IMDB has a list of the most popular Classic Who stories, rated by viewers, and Tom Baker's eps are mostly at the top. Whether his companion is Sarah Jane, or one of the Romanas, those are mostly great episodes. And since you love gothic supernatural stories, there plenty of those in that era, especially seasons 13 and 14.

I'll give those a watch when I'm done with David's seasons. I like Sarah Jane so it'll be fun seeing her first entrance as the companion.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

My favorite doctor remains William Hartnell, the first Doctor. This is the very, very beginning of the show, and British television was still very primitive at the time. There were very limited FX budgets, and the pacing is very slow by modern standards, but GQ rated the first season of the show as the 12th best of all time, and the second season as #15. Whether the Doctor's companions are Susan, Ian, and Barbara, or Vicki and Steven, they are enjoyable. (There are so many missing episodes after the first two seasons that the remaining episodes can't entirely be enjoyed). Some fans prefer to start at the very beginning, and these are where those people should start.

Some shows are great to watch from the beginning and some shows are just so slow and different compared to the later seasons that it's best skipping the beginning. For example Melrose Place. I rewatch that show on occasion but I always skip season 1 because the format has nothing to do with the rest of the show. Season 1 is too innocent and incredibly boring while season 2 starts the new formula of being a fun black comedy type drama. I like rewatching shows at the point where it hooks me in.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I eventually need to do a re-watch myself.

All my shows are either cancelled / ended or have changed so badly that I can't stay with them anymore. Mom is too much about Jill that I'm waiting until the summer to finish it since it was canceled. Supernatural is done. Wandavision is only 9 episodes and that'll be done soon. I just don't have as many shows as I used too. I'm going to rewatch my video collection since I have time. Doctor Who goes well with my rewatch of Once Upon A Time too. I pair them up.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Christopher

I don't know how majority of the DW fans feel but Rose creeped me out. She was way too obsessed with the doctor. It wasn't love she had. She was willing to give up her family, friends, her own identity, everything she had just to be in the doctor's life. It was major fatal attraction going on there. When I was watching season 2 a couple of days ago, almost every episode has her hanging on him and making goo goo eyes at him. When Sarah Jane returned, Rose just gave her so many nasty looks. I almost thought Rose was going to give her a beat down for coming back. It wasn't normal how Rose was acting. I'm so glad the tenth doctor didn't get stuck with her through his whole run.

I liked Rose, but felt like they overdid it with the character. At one point, it felt like Rose was more of the show than even the Doctor, and that's just not right. There were more episodes about Rose's mum and boyfriend than there were about the Doctor's... anything, really.

I have not seen this. My TV viewing was very limited that year. I just looked it up and saw Billie makes an appearance. More Rose Did she meet Amy? Those two are a lot of alike. I remember Matt Smith's first season had Amy acting just like Rose with a huge obsession of wanting to be with the doctor even though they had a boyfriend.

You know, I don't actually recall if Rose met Amy. I saw it in theaters (it was a worldwide theater simulcast) in 3D, and it was amazing. So. Much. Awesome.

I'll give those a watch when I'm done with David's seasons. I like Sarah Jane so it'll be fun seeing her first entrance as the companion.

Awesome! Let me know what you think! Sarah Jane was a fantastic companion... not my most favorite ever, but certainly in the top 10. And having that connection of when she appeared on New Who will be a nice connection.

All my shows are either cancelled / ended or have changed so badly that I can't stay with them anymore. Mom is too much about Jill that I'm waiting until the summer to finish it since it was canceled. Supernatural is done. Wandavision is only 9 episodes and that'll be done soon. I just don't have as many shows as I used too. I'm going to rewatch my video collection since I have time. Doctor Who goes well with my rewatch of Once Upon A Time too. I pair them up.

Luckily, the latest Mom wasn't Jill-centric.

[Christopher]

Just finished the Martha season. I love that she stands up for herself. The doctor really treats her ****** though. In The Sound of Drums, the doctor uses Martha's quote from a previous episode about fancying someone you like who doesn't know you exist on a device he makes. She stands there with egg on her face as he says her line. Jack tries to make her feel better saying "you too" so she's not alone with her feelings. She's like a doormat to the doctor. I'm so glad she left him on her own. I also like she was not creepy like Rose when her family needed her. Rose was willing to ditch her family because of her obsession for the doctor. Martha was sane and knew what mattered. I haven't seen season 2 of Torchwood in years so that'll be my next rewatch with season 4 of Doctor Who. I remember Martha makes appearances on Torchwood.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I liked Rose, but felt like they overdid it with the character. At one point, it felt like Rose was more of the show than even the Doctor, and that's just not right. There were more episodes about Rose's mum and boyfriend than there were about the Doctor's... anything, really.

I don't like Rose. She was annoying. If she was a normal companion like Martha and Donna, I might have grown to like her. The fact she didn't care about seeing her family again ruined my interest in Rose. I don't understand why she is a favorite of Russell's. He gave her the best ending while Donna and Martha got nothing.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

You know, I don't actually recall if Rose met Amy. I saw it in theaters (it was a worldwide theater simulcast) in 3D, and it was amazing. So. Much. Awesome.

Rose should meet Amy. Amy was written to be an exact copy of her that first year of Matt's Doctor.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Awesome! Let me know what you think! Sarah Jane was a fantastic companion... not my most favorite ever, but certainly in the top 10. And having that connection of when she appeared on New Who will be a nice connection.

The classic Doctor Who episodes I got are The Daemons, Robots, Planet of Evil, Face of Evil, and Underworld. I started Daemons a couple of days ago. Is the doctor stationed on a military base? I got vibes of season 4 of Buffy when I started that episode When I read Daemons was about The Master summoning Satan, I have to see it.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Did you like/see The Day of the Doctor? It was the 2013 Doctor Who 50th Anniversary special, and every Doctor was in it.

I watched this after finishing the tenth doctors episodes. I did not care for it. Matt Smith's version of the doctor is really hard for me to enjoy. He doesn't have the acting range David does as the doctor. I did like they brought back Queen Elizabeth so we could learn more history of her and the doctor. When she made that brief appearance in series 3 and being so angry with the doctor, we didn't know why. I thought it would always be a story left hanging.

I am now done with the Doctor Who episodes I enjoy. I'm still irritated with how Donna's story ended. I wish when Dalek Caan said one of his companions will die it was going to happen to Rose. In Stolen Earth when Prime Minister Jones gets everyone on the computer screen, Rose throws a jealous temper tantrum because Martha is acknowledge but not her I cannot believe the woman who has an actual fatal attraction for the doctor is the one who gets the happy ending

I did notice each of these companions taught the doctor a human trait to life. Rose taught the doctor to be obsessive and jealous. She showed the doctor how derange a person can be with their attraction towards someone. Martha taught the doctor to be strong and fight for the ones you love. Donna taught the doctor to care and be compassionate towards others. Turn Left showed us if it hadn't been for Donna in the Christmas Bride, the doctor would have let rage consume him to death because that's what Rose taught him. Donna was the best influence on the Doctor. I love that David and Catherine are close in real life. They have awesome chemistry together. I need to find his appearances on her variety show.

I looked up Matt's final episode and Peter's final episode. It looks like David is the only doctor whose previous companions come back for his final appearance. I was going to check out Peter's version of the doctor, but I think I'll leave it with David's. It's really hard to top The End of Time.

[RetroGuy2000]

Woops! I missed your last post!

Yes, for a few years, Doctor Who was set on a military base: UNIT. They decided the space episodes were expensive, so they stranded the Third Doctor on Earth for several years.

Originally Posted by Christopher

I watched this after finishing the tenth doctors episodes. I did not care for it. Matt Smith's version of the doctor is really hard for me to enjoy. He doesn't have the acting range David does as the doctor. I did like they brought back Queen Elizabeth so we could learn more history of her and the doctor. When she made that brief appearance in series 3 and being so angry with the doctor, we didn't know why. I thought it would always be a story left hanging.

I am now done with the Doctor Who episodes I enjoy. I'm still irritated with how Donna's story ended. I wish when Dalek Caan said one of his companions will die it was going to happen to Rose. In Stolen Earth when Prime Minister Jones gets everyone on the computer screen, Rose throws a jealous temper tantrum because Martha is acknowledge but not her I cannot believe the woman who has an actual fatal attraction for the doctor is the one who gets the happy ending

I did notice each of these companions taught the doctor a human trait to life. Rose taught the doctor to be obsessive and jealous. She showed the doctor how derange a person can be with their attraction towards someone. Martha taught the doctor to be strong and fight for the ones you love. Donna taught the doctor to care and be compassionate towards others. Turn Left showed us if it hadn't been for Donna in the Christmas Bride, the doctor would have let rage consume him to death because that's what Rose taught him. Donna was the best influence on the Doctor. I love that David and Catherine are close in real life. They have awesome chemistry together. I need to find his appearances on her variety show.

I looked up Matt's final episode and Peter's final episode. It looks like David is the only doctor whose previous companions come back for his final appearance. I was going to check out Peter's version of the doctor, but I think I'll leave it with David's. It's really hard to top The End of Time.

I can't stand Peter Capaldi's era. There is something seriously wrong with the writing -- I'm not quite sure I can pinpoint it -- and I can't get into it, even as a fan of Doctor Who 35+ years. Since I could never get into the Capaldi era, I can totally understand why someone (in this case, you) couldn't get into Matt Smith's episodes. I liked them, myself, but he was no David Tennant.

Anyway, some great observations about the companions, there, and I sure have appreciated reading your reactions.

For me, Day of the Doctor was wonderful for having David Tennant back, and also having Tom Baker at The Curator, and of course the scenes of the other doctors.

I don't know if you are interested, Christopher, but one other cool DW thing I can recommend is An Adventure in Space and Time, a 2013 biopic about the beginnings of Doctor Who back in the early 1960s, which won several BAFTA awards in the UK for its loving portrayal of the first four years of the series. It's got drama, pathos, four original companion cameos, and the earliest history of Doctor Who, all in 83 minutes.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Yes, for a few years, Doctor Who was set on a military base: UNIT. They decided the space episodes were expensive, so they stranded the Third Doctor on Earth for several years.

I watched a few of the early years. The Satan episode had some really cheesy special effects. It was comical because that's how Dark Shadows from the 60's was. They tried the best with the money they were given. I'm glad they didn't stick with the military background for the revival. I like the adventures where they get to go explore on different planets and time lines.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I can't stand Peter Capaldi's era. There is something seriously wrong with the writing -- I'm not quite sure I can pinpoint it -- and I can't get into it, even as a fan of Doctor Who 35+ years. Since I could never get into the Capaldi era, I can totally understand why someone (in this case, you) couldn't get into Matt Smith's episodes. I liked them, myself, but he was no David Tennant.

He played in an episode of David's run as the doctor. The Pompeii episode. I thought it'd be funny if his character had a fob watch since Peter ends up playing the doctor years later. So the writing is not any good on his run? That's a shame. With Matt's episodes, he overacts a lot and tries to do these facial expressions. I noticed it big time in Day of The Doctor. It reminded me that was another reason I quit when he got the role.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I don't know if you are interested, Christopher, but one other cool DW thing I can recommend is An Adventure in Space and Time, a 2013 biopic about the beginnings of Doctor Who back in the early 1960s, which won several BAFTA awards in the UK for its loving portrayal of the first four years of the series. It's got drama, pathos, four original companion cameos, and the earliest history of Doctor Who, all in 83 minutes.

I'll see if I can find it.


One thing I forgot to mention was River Song. She told the doctor he looks so young than when she saw him last. That's the ending to her character since she dies in the episode. We know she never meets this doctor again but she does meet Matt's doctor since I'm pretty certain I read somewhere River's mystery was that she's the daughter of Matt's companion. Matt is way younger than David so she has seen a younger version of the doctor than David's. I think they had an original plan for River but because Russell left when David left, they had to redo her character's mystery arc.

[Charley Knox]

You can watch classic Doctor Who for free on Pluto TV.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Christopher

I watched a few of the early years. The Satan episode had some really cheesy special effects.

Classic Doctor Who is chock-full of cheesy special effects. For me, that is part of its charm. Sometimes the tin foil monsters and bubble wrap aliens make the show. But if you'd like a darker episode with good special effects, State of Decay may be more to your liking. Fantastic, dark vampire episode. Actually, most of the Tom Baker run is wonderful.

It was comical because that's how Dark Shadows from the 60's was. They tried the best with the money they were given. I'm glad they didn't stick with the military background for the revival. I like the adventures where they get to go explore on different planets and time lines.

Same here. The military base only lasted a few seasons, though they returned to it every once in a while. But Doctor Who was always best when it was creating imaginary worlds or exploring different times.

He played in an episode of David's run as the doctor. The Pompeii episode. I thought it'd be funny if his character had a fob watch since Peter ends up playing the doctor years later. So the writing is not any good on his run? That's a shame.

IMO, the writing is very odd and the production feels rushed.

One thing I forgot to mention was River Song. She told the doctor he looks so young than when she saw him last. That's the ending to her character since she dies in the episode. We know she never meets this doctor again but she does meet Matt's doctor since I'm pretty certain I read somewhere River's mystery was that she's the daughter of Matt's companion. Matt is way younger than David so she has seen a younger version of the doctor than David's. I think they had an original plan for River but because Russell left when David left, they had to redo her character's mystery arc.

I believe that is correct. But they can always bring her back. It's Doctor Who...