Saved by the Bell vs. The Facts of Life

[80s Dude]

How do you compare Saved by the Bell with the Facts of Life. Both originally set in a school setting. Saved by the Bell started a year after the Facts of Life.

I get to see Saved by the Bell on MeTV. Too me, the show is corny compared to the Facts of Life and the acting is not as good. But Saved by the Bell shows that you can do a half hour comedy show that focused on more than 4 students.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by 80s Dude

How do you compare Saved by the Bell with the Facts of Life. Both originally set in a school setting. Saved by the Bell started a year after the Facts of Life.

I get to see Saved by the Bell on MeTV. Too me, the show is corny compared to the Facts of Life and the acting is not as good.

Not only is the acting on SBTB not as good, the productions were rushed, and the scripts were inferior. They were written for a juvenile audience, and it shows. Remember when Slater's pet lizard died, and he was devastated?

I enjoyed SBTB when I was a kid, but even then, I knew it was kind of a low-budget show. It aired on Saturday mornings, so it was meant for a teen and pre-teen audience. That meant it didn't necessarily have to be intelligent.

For most of the series' run, they had no school cafeteria set, so the kids had to eat on The Max set. Similarly, for several years the school had no gym set, so pep rallies were held at... The Max. Later, they added a gym set, but it was tiny.

To be fair, there were some attempts to tell a larger story. The Pacific Palisades episodes, where they shot some scenes on location on the beach, felt far less claustrophobic.

Like FOL, SBTB started off (as Good Morning Miss Bliss) with a larger cast (5 students plus four faculty/staff), but after the first season, the show was revamped, and there was a Cast Purge. In the case of SBTB, they even changed the location, the theme song, and the name of the show (but later repackaged the GMMB episodes as SBTB anyway).

But Saved by the Bell shows that you can do a half hour comedy show that focused on more than 4 students.

There were a few things on SBTB that were done better than FOL, and that was one of them: they had six students instead of four. Another thing that was done better was the teacher continuity. A number of teachers made recurring appearances. That... didn't really happen on FOL after the first season. The teachers were just one-offs.

[80s Dude]

So how many cast members/characters were carried over from "Good Morning, Miss Bliss" to "Saved by the Bell'?

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by 80s Dude

So how many cast members/characters were carried over from "Good Morning, Miss Bliss" to "Saved by the Bell'?

Just four: only Mr. Belding, Lisa, Zack, and Screech survived the Cast Purge. Gone were Miss Bliss, Mikey, Nikki, Miss Paladrino, and Milo the janitor. And they added Jessie, Kelly, and (briefly) Max the Magician.

[DJM77]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Just four: only Mr. Belding, Lisa, Zack, and Screech survived the Cast Purge. Gone were Miss Bliss, Mikey, Nikki, Miss Paladrino, and Milo the janitor. And they added Jessie, Kelly, and (briefly) Max the Magician.

Milo wasn't a janitor, was he? I thought that he was either a teacher or a guidance counselor.

[valentina warner]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Not only is the acting on SBTB not as good, the productions were rushed, and the scripts were inferior. They were written for a juvenile audience, and it shows. Remember when Slater's pet lizard died, and he was devastated?

I enjoyed SBTB when I was a kid, but even then, I knew it was kind of a low-budget show. It aired on Saturday mornings, so it was meant for a teen and pre-teen audience. That meant it didn't necessarily have to be intelligent.

For most of the series' run, they had no school cafeteria set, so the kids had to eat on The Max set. Similarly, for several years the school had no gym set, so pep rallies were held at... The Max. Later, they added a gym set, but it was tiny.

To be fair, there were some attempts to tell a larger story. The Pacific Palisades episodes, where they shot some scenes on location on the beach, felt far less claustrophobic.

Like FOL, SBTB started off (as Good Morning Miss Bliss) with a larger cast (5 students plus four faculty/staff), but after the first season, the show was revamped, and there was a Cast Purge. In the case of SBTB, they even changed the location, the theme song, and the name of the show (but later repackaged the GMMB episodes as SBTB anyway).



There were a few things on SBTB that were done better than FOL, and that was one of them: they had six students instead of four. Another thing that was done better was the teacher continuity. A number of teachers made recurring appearances. That... didn't really happen on FOL after the first season. The teachers were just one-offs.

You know, you make a very interesting point Retro: it just occurred to me, they could have kept only 2 of the 'Lost girls' on FOL if they thought they were too many (or at least one + JO)!
Just imagine if they had at least kept maybe SUE ANN or MOLLY (as she was promised by the producer, before they discovered JO on 'Little darlings'): the show would have had another dynamic with either 3 older girls such as BLAIR, JO and SUE ANN; or with 3 younger girls such as MOLLY, NAT and TOOTIE!
MRS G would have more work with 6 troublesome girls, and there would have been more stories!
For instance, MOLLY would have gang up with JO against BLAIR about women's right, and both would have been a foil to her.
Or, SUE ANN would have been shocked about the new Bronx barbarian girl, and ganged up with BLAIR against her: of course JO would have punch their lights out by calling them Barbie dolls!

What do you think?

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by DJM77

Milo wasn't a janitor, was he? I thought that he was either a teacher or a guidance counselor.

Been a while since I've seen one of the Miss Bliss-era episodes, but at least one IMDB review confirms Milo was a janitor. I remember him complaining about a clean-up request and being kinda zany.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by valentina warner

You know, you make a very interesting point Retro: it just occurred to me, they could have kept only 2 of the 'Lost girls' on FOL if they thought they were too many (or at least one + JO)!
Just imagine if they had at least kept maybe SUE ANN or MOLLY (as she was promised by the producer, before they discovered JO on 'Little darlings'): the show would have had another dynamic with either 3 older girls such as BLAIR, JO and SUE ANN; or with 3 younger girls such as MOLLY, NAT and TOOTIE!
MRS G would have more work with 6 troublesome girls, and there would have been more stories!

I would have loved that.

The writers would have needed to work out the kinks in Molly's character, but it was a character with a lot of potential. And Sue Ann/Jo clashes could have been awesome!

For instance, MOLLY would have gang up with JO against BLAIR about women's right, and both would have been a foil to her.
Or, SUE ANN would have been shocked about the new Bronx barbarian girl, and ganged up with BLAIR against her: of course JO would have punch their lights out by calling them Barbie dolls!

What do you think?

It should have happened, and it's a shame we didn't get a genuine Sue Ann/Jo clash until Season 8.

[valentina warner]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I would have loved that.

The writers would have needed to work out the kinks in Molly's character, but it was a character with a lot of potential. And Sue Ann/Jo clashes could have been awesome!



It should have happened, and it's a shame we didn't get a genuine Sue Ann/Jo clash until Season 8.

I knew you'd agree: let's build a time machine and go back to 1980 to change things lol!

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by valentina warner

I knew you'd agree: let's build a time machine and go back to 1980 to change things lol!

Just hop in my DeLorean! We'll go right now! I'll set the Flux Capacitor to Summer 1980, and we'll save TV history!

[valentina warner]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Just hop in my DeLorean! We'll go right now! I'll set the Flux Capacitor to Summer 1980, and we'll save TV history!

[DJM77]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Been a while since I've seen one of the Miss Bliss-era episodes, but at least one IMDB review confirms Milo was a janitor. I remember him complaining about a clean-up request and being kinda zany.

He dressed really nice for a janitor.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by DJM77

He dressed really nice for a janitor.

Yeah, he was dressed in a dress shirt and tie in many episodes. You would think he'd wear more blue-collar clothes. Maybe a denim shirt, possibly with a stitched-on badge. That is what the janitors at my institution wear.

But I also remember one episode where he mentioned he was "head of maintenance". And I also remember him cleaning up (or complaining about) a spill at the school.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Not only is the acting on SBTB not as good, the productions were rushed, and the scripts were inferior. They were written for a juvenile audience, and it shows.

This. I don't know why these two shows are being compared with each other just because they had a school setting. SBTB was written for kids where FOL was written for an adult audience. I'm not into SBTB even though I watched that, the college years, and the new class (I actually preferred this over the original) as a teenager. It's not rewatchable because it's a joke show. The whole caffeine pill episode is so cringeworthy to watch as an adult. The episodes FOL did like Breaking Point, Growing Pains, or Fear Strikes Back to name a few still hold up today because it was written seriously. Their writing was to reach people who can relate to these issues. SBTB didn't do that. California Dreams did though. I remember their steroid episode and the smoking episode were very serious. The smoking episode had Jake's cousin or uncle dying of lung cancer. They did stories SBTB wishes they could have done.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

There were a few things on SBTB that were done better than FOL, and that was one of them: they had six students instead of four.

Having six students didn't help SBTB. Elizabeth and Tiffani left the show in season 4 causing them to add Leanna Creel to help fill the void. Fans still criticize that. If FOL have kept all seven girls, they would have jumped ship over the course of the show. Molly thinking she's better than everyone would have been the first to quit. I doubt Felice would have stuck around to have a romance with an off screen character. I think both Julie's would have stayed because they didn't have the arrogant attitude Molly Ringwald has. There's no telling if Mindy and Kim would have stuck around if they were getting fewer episodes to accommodate other cast members. Having a big cast means having to cut some performers scenes in episodes so everyone gets airtime. Look how little episodes and scenes Julie Anne had in season 1. Big casts are not always a good thing. And then fast forward to season 9 where they had the big cast again. Sherrie and MacKenzie had very few moments in the show. Still have no clue why Sherrie was brought in with how they wrote her as an outcast with the core 4. MacKenzie was gone for a lot of episodes in season 9 because they had to give the core 4 their episodes. Cloris had very few scenes, but was there for the audience to see because she's a big name in Hollywood. I prefer small cast shows because the characters are able to get a fair amount of airtime to develop for the audience to see.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Christopher

This. I don't know why these two shows are being compared with each other just because they had a school setting.

I've got absolutely no problem with making a comparison between the shows: FOL comes out far ahead on most metrics. And I think it's only natural to make a comparison between two school shows, just as someone might make a comparison between two cop shows, or two lawyer shows, or The Addams Family vs The Munsters: it feels natural to do so.

SBTB was written for kids where FOL was written for an adult audience.

I feel like FOL was written for both adults and kids.

I'm not into SBTB even though I watched that, the college years, and the new class (I actually preferred this over the original) as a teenager.

I never watched The New Class, beyond giving it a try. It felt like... a cheap rip-off of SBTB, which is crazy. A cheap rip-off of a cheap show...

It's not rewatchable because it's a joke show. The whole caffeine pill episode is so cringeworthy to watch as an adult.

I feel like that wasn't even the worst one. The one where Screech's robot was the main plot... or maybe the one with Slater's dead lizard... were far worse.

The episodes FOL did like Breaking Point, Growing Pains, or Fear Strikes Back to name a few still hold up today because it was written seriously.

I couldn't agree more. These episodes saved lives and helped viewers through difficult real-life issues.

Their writing was to reach people who can relate to these issues. SBTB didn't do that. California Dreams did though. I remember their steroid episode and the smoking episode were very serious. The smoking episode had Jake's cousin or uncle dying of lung cancer. They did stories SBTB wishes they could have done.

It's so weird, because I think that was another Peter Engel production. I never watched it on a regular basis.

Having six students didn't help SBTB.

I feel like it did: the school didn't feel as claustrophobic as Eastland, where only four students did everything, from being class valedictorian to running the school paper, to being Harvest Queen, to running the graduation ceremony.

Elizabeth and Tiffani left the show in season 4 causing them to add Leanna Creel to help fill the void. Fans still criticize that. If FOL have kept all seven girls, they would have jumped ship over the course of the show. Molly thinking she's better than everyone would have been the first to quit.

Maybe. Molly definitely had an attitude, and I've never quite understood why, but maybe staying on would have smoothed some of those edges: working with other people who are more modest will do that to people, as even Mrs. Garrett recognized. Molly wasn't given that opportunity.

However, we are told that the cast was very close.

I doubt Felice would have stuck around to have a romance with an off screen character.

I don't see why not: she stuck around for three seasons as it was, even with barely any lines.

I think both Julie's would have stayed because they didn't have the arrogant attitude Molly Ringwald has.

The Julies definitely have had a more positive approach to things, at least in comparison to Molly. Julie Pie, in particular, has been incredibly open to reprising her role and answering fan questions. I don't think she's ever turned down an interview. And the support she gave Kim during DWTS was incredible.

(This isn't to slight Julie Anne, who I think must have been more shy, and maybe didn't have as close of a relationship to Kim or Lisa as Julie Pie did).

There's no telling if Mindy and Kim would have stuck around if they were getting fewer episodes to accommodate other cast members. Having a big cast means having to cut some performers scenes in episodes so everyone gets airtime. Look how little episodes and scenes Julie Anne had in season 1. Big casts are not always a good thing.

I wouldn't consider a cast of six or seven that big, and many modern sitcoms have casts of a similar size.

And then fast forward to season 9 where they had the big cast again. Sherrie and MacKenzie had very few moments in the show.

That's true; they were rarely the focus. In hindsight, they really could have incorporated them better. The two characters of Pippa and Andy instead stepped into scenes and back out much like "the DJ" on Roseanne: in, brief scene, out. Even though I like the character of Andy more, I feel like they gave Pippa a better reason to be there: she's attending Eastland (although the way they went about the introduction episode itself was crazy: she's not even supposed to be there, so they let her stay; she annoys them constantly, so they all agree she needs to stay with them. WTF?!)

Still have no clue why Sherrie was brought in with how they wrote her as an outcast with the core 4.

You are so very right, here. It's like they wrote the character of Pippa to be an outcast, which seems cruel. It feels like a miscue. We're supposed to like the Core Four, but they exclude Pippa in so many scenes. Makes. No. Sense.

MacKenzie was gone for a lot of episodes in season 9 because they had to give the core 4 their episodes. Cloris had very few scenes, but was there for the audience to see because she's a big name in Hollywood. I prefer small cast shows because the characters are able to get a fair amount of airtime to develop for the audience to see.

But I know you like Buffy, which had a huge cast (sometimes as many as eight characters in the opening credits, plus a dozen more semi-regulars per season, including a Big Bad, side characters, and minions). Even with the episodes being twice as long, that is a large cast.

Anyway, I always enjoy reading your perspectives. It definitely helps these forums to get multiple inputs.