MASH is two Different Shows

[Edge]

Of course I started watching MASH like everybody else with season 1. It was great, and so was S2, and S3, and so on and so on. But looking back, I now see a clear separation occurred in S6.

Potter came in for Henry, BJ for Trapper, both improvements. But, the biggest push was Charles for Frank. Not only was Charles a HUGE step up from Frank, Charles allowed Margaret to be a force in the show, instead of just being a prop for Frank. The 1-5 eps were too much Frank and his annoying behavior that Hawkeye and the others responded too. With Charles, every character became stronger. What do you think?

[GentlemanJim]

Originally Posted by Edge

Of course I started watching MASH like everybody else with season 1. It was great, and so was S2, and S3, and so on and so on. But looking back, I now see a clear separation occurred in S6.

Potter came in for Henry, BJ for Trapper, both improvements. But, the biggest push was Charles for Frank. Not only was Charles a HUGE step up from Frank, Charles allowed Margaret to be a force in the show, instead of just being a prop for Frank. The 1-5 eps were too much Frank and his annoying behavior that Hawkeye and the others responded too. With Charles, every character became stronger. What do you think?

I think that you are right-on with your assessment of "2 different shows", but personally I would have chosen a different boundry.

!979 seems more like when a quantum shift took place. Just about the time of the movie "the Seduction of Joe Tynan" was making the loops, the show seemed to shift to 'Make Room for Alan Alda'

Of course he always was a central character, but there just seemed to be a shift at about that point.....for what previously was a showcase of irreverent humor, to "who'll fluff my pillow today"?

I suppose it's possible that the Joe Tynan Character simply changed my view of Alan Alda....but I don't think that was the case.

[RetroGuy2000]

I couldn't stand the later seasons when Alan Alda took over the show. Who was he sleeping with, to get that much air time?

[Edge]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I couldn't stand the later seasons when Alan Alda took over the show. Who was he sleeping with, to get that much air time?

Very true, the show did center on Hawkeye in the later seasons, but for me that was a huge improvement over what I saw as a Frank Burns dominance in the first 5 seasons.

I understand the character was supposed to be irritating, and I guess congratulations to Larry Linville for taking it on. But he just got too much for me, and Margaret was only "Hot Lips" during this time as well.

Hawkeye may have taken over the focus, but I think every character expanded their roles during S6-11. Margaret, Klinger, BJ, Potter, Charles, Mulcahy, each of them became much more interesting, in my opinion, and thus so did the show.

[CosmicCharlie]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I couldn't stand the later seasons when Alan Alda took over the show. Who was he sleeping with, to get that much air time?

Watching Alan Alda pick up ANY female he desired made me turn it off back then, and today I can only watch the 1st 5 or 6 seasons

The Alan Alda (MASH) Show stunk -

but Frank Burns was a riot - great acting !

[Edge]

Originally Posted by CosmicCharlie

Watching Alan Alda pick up ANY female he desired made me turn it off back then, and today I can only watch the 1st 5 or 6 seasons

The Alan Alda (MASH) Show stunk -

but Frank Burns was a riot - great acting !

We could save $$$ if we went in on a DVD package together as I can't watch any season before 6. Frank Burns- acting? Didn't work for me, he just seemed like an idiot & brought Hot Lips down with him. But you liked it, and I did too when watching it originally.

[CosmicCharlie]

Originally Posted by Edge

We could save $$$ if we went in on a DVD package together as I can't watch any season before 6. Frank Burns- acting? Didn't work for me, he just seemed like an idiot & brought Hot Lips down with him. But you liked it, and I did too when watching it originally.

the cast all said Frank was hilarious in rehearsals - they ALL loved him ...

[GentlemanJim]

I think part of it too, is that irreverence only works when it is ( at least ostensibly) spontaneous.
Once it becomes part of a formula, it appears premeditated, and the novelty is gone.

I used to like this show, but because it is always on "somewhere" it has actually become a show that I will try to "tune away from".....
I think the best thing they could do for this show would be to get it completely out of circulation, for about 5 years, and then bring it back airing no more than two episodes per day.

[GentlemanJim]

When Klinger went from anarchist to foundation stone, I liked the show less
When Hawkeye started having feelings, I liked the show less

Winchester was a different kind of humor than Burns, same goes for BJ Hunnicutt vs Trapper John, and while both Harry Morgan and Mclean Stevenson were good at their jobs, I thought the show felt less restrained under Henry Blake.

[Edge]

Originally Posted by GentlemanJim

When Klinger went from anarchist to foundation stone, I liked the show less
When Hawkeye started having feelings, I liked the show less

Winchester was a different kind of humor than Burns, same goes for BJ Hunnicutt vs Trapper John, and while both Harry Morgan and Mclean Stevenson were good at their jobs, I thought the show felt less restrained under Henry Blake.

Thanks for the comment, I'm really enjoying the conversation. We are two 180's of the MASH world.

I can see where you cite, less restrained in the early seasons. I watched the early seasons of course and thought they were great. But, as the transition was occurring I began liking the show even more.
"Abyssinya, Henry" is an iconic episode, and Henry had moments that lifted him up from the bumbler. Unfortunately I never saw anything that showed growth in Frank, and I'll take an overload of irreverence over nonstop buffoonery every time.
After a while I looked back and just found Frank Burns to be repetitive overload, and I'll take too much irreverence over that

[GentlemanJim]

Originally Posted by Edge

I'll take too much irreverence over that

Just to assure that I'm not being misunderstood, I enjoy irreverence too. But for it to work, it has to appear spontaneous. And from my perceptions, it became a little too formulaic...a little too predictable. Perhaps it had something to do with Hawkeye's role growing into a quasi-paternal type thing too.

[treky]

season 1-3
the best; if only they had kept it that way

season 4-7
just OK






seasons 8-11
the worst; too much Alan Alda and no Radar. CBS should have cancelled it at that point
I mean every other week it was "...oh we're doctors and we're nurses...and we save lives which makes us so good...and death is such a bummer..." and on and on and on...
Oh yes and Margrets reaction to every tragedy was to just say "Dear god"

[JustaViewer]

A TV critic once said MASH began as a straight comedy interrupted by moments of unexpected drama, and ended as a straight drama interrupted by moments of unexpected comedy.
I would argue MASH was in fact THREE different shows.
Seasons 1-3. A combination of service comedy with the irreverence of the original film.
Seasons 4-7. An uneven mixture of comedy and drama, with the drama overshadowing the comedy.
Seasons 8-11. A straight drama "lightened" by abysmal attempts at humor.
In my opinion it reached its bottom with the episode "Bless you Hawkeye", where it became unintentionally funny.

[GentlemanJim]

Originally Posted by treky

seasons 8-11
the worst; too much Alan Alda and no Radar. CBS should have cancelled it at that point

Do you think that at some point money became a factor? Alan Alda becoming such a Zeus to the show that they could only afford to keep a select few others from the core cast, and had to improvise the last few seasons?

That's not an attempt to put the blame only on Alda, because anytime a show becomes a hit it seems like everyone in the cast expects a mega payday when their contract comes up. But with what I am sure Alda was able to get for himself, maybe there wasn't a lot left to go around?

[treky]

Originally Posted by GentlemanJim

Do you think that at some point money became a factor? Alan Alda becoming such a Zeus to the show that they could only afford to keep a select few others from the core cast, and had to improvise the last few seasons?

That's not an attempt to put the blame only on Alda, because anytime a show becomes a hit it seems like everyone in the cast expects a mega payday when their contract comes up. But with what I am sure Alda was able to get for himself, maybe there wasn't a lot left to go around?

yes, I do