“Halloween Show”

[TV Guy]

Wow - what a stinker this one is. Did the girls, after living with Edna for years, really think she was going to pull a Sweeney Todd and ground up that customer into sausage?

Dumb.

[RetroGuy2000]

It's a Halloween episode, so I don't expect much from it. There are some funny moments, so it's better than much of the final season, when they actually had to rely on a laugh track to get laughs.

The only thing I don't like about the episode is that [Spoiler Alert!] it turns out it was all a con by Natalie. Seriously, Natalie?! WTF!?

[cfr1970]

Originally Posted by TV Guy

Wow - what a stinker this one is. Did the girls, after living with Edna for years, really think she was going to pull a Sweeney Todd and ground up that customer into sausage?

Dumb.

I see this was season 5 but I don't remember seeing it on Antenna TV recently. I would've remembered a plot like that. I wonder if they're saving it for Halloween to air it?!

And thanks Retro!

[valentina warner]

I actually enjoyed the 'HALLOWEEN' episode: after all, it is the time of the year to play pranks ha ha ha!!!!!

['80sSitcoms]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

It's a Halloween episode, so I don't expect much from it.

Did you just dis Halloween?

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

There are some funny moments, so it's better than much of the final season, when they actually had to rely on a laugh track to get laughs.

How do we know that? I'm not being argumentative, you just have me curious if that's documented or acknowledged in any of the credits or anything.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by '80sSitcoms

Did you just dis Halloween?

Not at all. Halloween episodes are among my favorites. But you can't expect the rules apply to Halloween sitcoms, right? I mean, in this episode, the girls decide that Mrs. Garrett is a murderer, and that she's become a cannibal. In the real world, you could never recover a friendship after that, no matter what. Halloween episodes get the free pass, because they just do. They don't make sense; they're there to entertain during October.

How do we know that? I'm not being argumentative, you just have me curious if that's documented or acknowledged in any of the credits or anything.

Credits don't mention laugh tracks.

First, you can tell a laugh track pretty easily in any episode where the characters are outdoors, but the "studio audience" is still laughing: there's no studio audience in an outdoor scene. So, for example, the episode we recently discussed, "Summer of '84", in the scene where Blair and Cliff are in "Iowa", that scene clearly uses a laugh track. It's possible the whole episode uses canned laughter, but definitely the "Iowa" scene.

By the same token, you can identify a laugh track episode if, in a scene, you can see all four walls of the room, and yet the "studio audience" is laughing. If you've sat in on any sitcom, or even a live stage show, you will see that there must be space at the front for the audience, just like in a play. In the David Spade episode, we get angles of all four walls. That's clearly a laugh track: there's no space for a studio audience anywhere.

I've worked enough in media production to be able to identify canned laughter by how artificial it sounds. MASH had the world's worst laugh track ever. Well, except for Scooby Doo. (WTF was a "studio audience" doing in a cartoon!?)

[Impressions]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

It's a Halloween episode, so I don't expect much from it. There are some funny moments, so it's better than much of the final season, when they actually had to rely on a laugh track to get laughs.

The only thing I don't like about the episode is that [Spoiler Alert!] it turns out it was all a con by Natalie. Seriously, Natalie?! WTF!?

Oh no spoilers! And all this time I thought it was Carol Baskin that sent Mr. Bigley to the meat grinder

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Not at all. Halloween episodes are among my favorites. But you can't expect the rules apply to Halloween sitcoms, right? I mean, in this episode, the girls decide that Mrs. Garrett is a murderer, and that she's become a cannibal. In the real world, you could never recover a friendship after that, no matter what. Halloween episodes get the free pass, because they just do. They don't make sense; they're there to entertain during October.



Credits don't mention laugh tracks.

First, you can tell a laugh track pretty easily in any episode where the characters are outdoors, but the "studio audience" is still laughing: there's no studio audience in an outdoor scene. So, for example, the episode we recently discussed, "Summer of '84", in the scene where Blair and Cliff are in "Iowa", that scene clearly uses a laugh track. It's possible the whole episode uses canned laughter, but definitely the "Iowa" scene.

By the same token, you can identify a laugh track episode if, in a scene, you can see all four walls of the room, and yet the "studio audience" is laughing. If you've sat in on any sitcom, or even a live stage show, you will see that there must be space at the front for the audience, just like in a play. In the David Spade episode, we get angles of all four walls. That's clearly a laugh track: there's no space for a studio audience anywhere.

I've worked enough in media production to be able to identify canned laughter by how artificial it sounds. MASH had the world's worst laugh track ever. Well, except for Scooby Doo. (WTF was a "studio audience" doing in a cartoon!?)

While this may true, I’m not sure how it applied to this episode. The whole episode took place in the studio.

['80sSitcoms]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Not at all. Halloween episodes are among my favorites. But you can't expect the rules apply to Halloween sitcoms, right? I mean, in this episode, the girls decide that Mrs. Garrett is a murderer, and that she's become a cannibal. In the real world, you could never recover a friendship after that, no matter what. Halloween episodes get the free pass, because they just do. They don't make sense; they're there to entertain during October.

Well, it depends on the plot. FOL has one of the most extreme for sure!

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Credits don't mention laugh tracks.

I know that. But many shows acknowledge if a show is filmed in front of a live studio audience, and I didn't know if FOL ever added that in print in the later years in any closing credits.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

First, you can tell a laugh track pretty easily in any episode where the characters are outdoors, but the "studio audience" is still laughing: there's no studio audience in an outdoor scene. So, for example, the episode we recently discussed, "Summer of '84", in the scene where Blair and Cliff are in "Iowa", that scene clearly uses a laugh track. It's possible the whole episode uses canned laughter, but definitely the "Iowa" scene.

Well sure, every sitcom does that that goes "on location", including ones who use live studio audiences.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

By the same token, you can identify a laugh track episode if, in a scene, you can see all four walls of the room, and yet the "studio audience" is laughing. If you've sat in on any sitcom, or even a live stage show, you will see that there must be space at the front for the audience, just like in a play. In the David Spade episode, we get angles of all four walls. That's clearly a laugh track: there's no space for a studio audience anywhere.

But that's not true. A show that utilizes an audience wouldn't film an episode within 4 walls with no audience. They later add the 4th wall and film that separately. They did that on "Mama's Family". They did that on "Mr. Belvedere" (and the cast members discuss this in one of the show's commentaries). I remember you claimed a year or two ago the Spade episode had to have been filmed without an audience because they show the 4th wall, but there's a "break" in the camera work there. Since other shows add the 4th wall for scenes, I just assume they did as well unless I'm proven otherwise.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by '80sSitcoms

But that's not true. A show that utilizes an audience wouldn't film an episode within 4 walls with no audience.

It happens all the time, actually. The 9th season of Roseanne was almost all pre-recorded, no live studio audience in most episodes, and it's easy to tell (Roseanne was using drugs heavily and couldn't remember her lines). The Big Bang Theory finale was filmed partway in front of a live studio audience and partway on an empty soundstage, without an audience:

The finale, which airs May 16, will be a two-part episode, with half filmed on a soundstage and the other half filmed before a studio audience.

The sitcom Red Dwarf had begun as recorded live in front of a studio audience. But then:

it was decided to remove the studio audience from the equation. The demands of the live performance had done little for the cast's nerves, and the effects that the show demanded were increasing every season to the point where almost half of series 6 was pre-recorded.

Guest stars on both sitcoms and talk shows have agreed to do appearances only if the studio audience is removed. For example, Kristy McNichol did Arsenio only on the condition that the studio audience be removed:

Despite this, she tries to keep her professional life on an even keel. For one thing, she rarely does the TV talk show circuit. All the same, she did venture onto Arsenio Hall’s show one night but not before she asked him to ask the studio audience to leave. Arsenio granted her wish and the two of them sat and talked to the camera. Kristy, however, said later that she thought it made her look bad, and regretted her request.

It all depends on many factors, including budgeting (no need for re-takes if you can dub in the laughter on a line that doesn't get laughs due to a miscue, star demands, weak scripts, a change-up in production companies, and more. FOL went through a lot of production companies, and taped at three different studios during its run.

They later add the 4th wall and film that separately.

Sure, and when they tape a sequence with a fourth wall, and you still hear the audience laughing, what is that?

I remember you claimed a year or two ago the Spade episode had to have been filmed without an audience because they show the 4th wall, but there's a "break" in the camera work there. Since other shows add the 4th wall for scenes, I just assume they did as well unless I'm proven otherwise.

I don't think there's any need to prove otherwise. You believe they "wouldn't film an episode" without an audience, but this is Hollywood. Everything is fake, and if the production company or the actors involved didn't want to tape in front of a live studio audience, for any reason, there would be no audience. Laugh tracks were a major part of sitcom history, and to some extent still are. Even the production on the funniest sitcoms occasionally "sweetened" the live studio audience reactions, even the ones that stated they were taped in front of a live studio audience. "They wouldn't do that" isn't how Hollywood, or any major production company, works. Not only do they do it, if it successfully saves some money, they will keep doing it, and it will eventually become the standard.

It even works both ways: Happy Days famously moved from a pre-recorded no-audience series to one that was live, between seasons 2 and 3, as reported in 1976:

As we move into the third season of Happy Days, more than just a larger onscreen appearance of Fonzie is evident. The set is modernized. The family uses the front door (it has been moved from the left to the right side of the home) as their primary door, allowing for the back door to be open to Fonzie who now stops in every day so Mrs. Cunningham, affectionately referred to by Fonzie as Mrs. C. (Marion Ross), can fill his thermos before work. The show has also moved from a single-camera shooting style to a multi-camera style (and has added a live audience) fashioned after the shooting of a play.

['80sSitcoms]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

It happens all the time, actually.

More often now, sure, but not in the '80s.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Sure, and when they tape a sequence with a fourth wall, and you still hear the audience laughing, what is that?

Most likely canned laughter, but just for that scene, not the entire episode. The rest is a studio audience, at least for series that regularly used them.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I don't think there's any need to prove otherwise.

Oh, but there is because we butt heads on this, lol. I do not believe that entire episode was filmed without a studio audience. I would have to learn proof otherwise first. Then I would admit that was true, but not without F.A.C.T. So we won't come to an agreement on this unless something definitive comes up (this is one of those unfortunate facts of life that crops up on here now and then).

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by '80sSitcoms

More often now, sure, but not in the '80s.

I'm no sure what you mean. This is in response to my statement that sitcoms taped without studio audiences all the time; "not in the '80s" isn't accurate. This happened in the 1980s, and in all other televised decades, as the formats of shows evolved with production needs.

You could read Archie, Edith, Mike & Gloria: The Tumultuous History of All in the Family, which talks about the changes that occurred between the 8th and 9th season of the show, including the move from a live studio audience to pre-recorded, with audience reaction dubbed in afterwards. Norman Lear (who liked shows with studio audiences) had left TAT/Tandem, and the change to pre-recorded was made at the request of Caroll O'Connor. This would have been from 1978 to 1983, during the last year of AitF and all seasons of Archie Bunker's Place. With Norman Lear gone, TAT Communications was bought out by Columbia, and the company's name became Columbia/Embassy. Embassy's production unit didn't care about live studio audiences the way that Norman Lear did, and production began to move away from "taped in front of a live studio audience".

Most likely canned laughter, but just for that scene, not the entire episode.

Can you point out which parts of Big Apple Blues used a studio audience and which parts used a laugh track?

[Impressions]

I do believe that The Facts of Life used a laugh track in some episodes, even if it was taped in front of the studio audience. I always pick-up on the same laughter of a young girl, whose laughter always appears at the end of a joke, and it's two chuckles and it sounds like she's about to cry or is out of breath. Did anyone else pick-up on this laugh? It appears in several episodes.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Impressions

I do believe that The Facts of Life used a laugh track in some episodes, even if it was taped in front of the studio audience. I always pick-up on the same laughter of a young girl, whose laughter always appears at the end of a joke, and it's two chuckles and it sounds like she's about to cry or is out of breath. Did anyone else pick-up on this laugh? It appears in several episodes.

Yes! I didn't catch that laugh, but the one I've heard is a guy chuckling quietly, four times, as his chuckle fades out. It's used often enough that it's unmistakable. But I'll listen for Young Girl Chuckle, now, too.

['80sSitcoms]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I'm no sure what you mean. This is in response to my statement that sitcoms taped without studio audiences all the time; "not in the '80s" isn't accurate. This happened in the 1980s, and in all other televised decades, as the formats of shows evolved with production needs.

You said "all the time", which I take you to mean 100% of the time, where several shows in the '80s used live studio audiences. But I realize you most likely meant "all the time" not literally.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Can you point out which parts of Big Apple Blues used a studio audience and which parts used a laugh track?

I haven't tried. I don't think there are any laughs in the 4th wall scene though. That may be akin to 'Mr. Belvedere" where the cast said they would film their back porch scenes with the 4th wall in the living room where the audience was after the audience had gone home (some of those scenes would use laughter, some wouldn't).

['80sSitcoms]

Originally Posted by Impressions

I do believe that The Facts of Life used a laugh track in some episodes, even if it was taped in front of the studio audience. I always pick-up on the same laughter of a young girl, whose laughter always appears at the end of a joke, and it's two chuckles and it sounds like she's about to cry or is out of breath. Did anyone else pick-up on this laugh? It appears in several episodes.

You're "getting to know" the canned laughter? Have you been watching this show too much?

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I didn't catch that laugh, but the one I've heard is a guy chuckling quietly, four times, as his chuckle fades out.

You better mean from the later years! (but I'm not sure how you'd know that as you don't watch the later years, unless you've been watching some later year episodes more than you've let on, lol)