Curt Borton Jr. - Page 6 - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Guardian · 03-13-2019, 02:45 AM

Just watched this case for the first time in a while. While I firmly believe that Curt is dead and that he died in Vietnam, I will say that there are several instances noted by the family that are interesting to say the least.

As far as the photos, I don’t get what you people are saying at all. The first picture from the magazine looks just like him to me. The second one however that was a still image from a film, that one looks nothing like him except for the vague shape of the face and the hairline.

In my opinion the biggest thing to support Curt being alive is that the US government claims he is dead. I wouldn’t believe that I was alive myself if the government told me so lol.

As to what the “mission” might be that Curt would have been recruited for, who knows? There were programs in place going back to at least the 50s and 60s where young low level GIs were recruited for intelligence programs with various assignments. So I have no problem believing that Curt might have been involved in something like this. However, I can’t buy the letting the soldiers come home but not ever being allowed to contact their family. For what purpose? The government would likely write them off or just “off” them before they would let them come back and potentially expose something they didn’t want to get out to the public.

Something strange was going on to say the least. I don’t buy the “teeth” story on its own. Even if the family agreed to give DNA for comparison, I could envision a couple of scenarios where it could match and still not mean a damn thing. Now if it is true that more remains have been found, I’d be more inclined to believe that.

The instances with the sister, I don’t know. I’d be inclined to believe she was mistaken, but I can’t see the guy making conversation the way he did if there wasn’t more to it. Of course if some stranger starts talking to me randomly in public, rather than look for some ominous code from the person, I’m more likely to be thinking “why the f*** are you talking to me? I don’t know you”, but that’s just me lol.

Anyway, it is a strange case to say the least. And IMO it has a lot more merit than some of the other POW / missing person still being alive segments profiled on the show. But again, just to clarify, Curt probably did die in Vietnam.

MegtheEgg86 · 03-17-2019, 10:35 AM

This is the Kenneth Engie of POW/MIA segments.

This poor man died in Vietnam and was thrown in a mass grave. The reason the family only ever received Curt's teeth is likely because they were the only remains determined with near certainty to be Borton's based on dental records.

No branch of the armed forces recruits someone months out of basic training for "special assignments", period. It's the stuff of TV and movies. Curt Borton was one of many, many young men that went through initial entry training and then straight to the jungle to backfill the position of another young man much like himself, either killed, finished with a term of service, or evacuated to the rear or out of the country for any number of reasons.

Given stories like that of COL Charles Shelton and Mark Dennis, I always thought this one seemed tenuous--at very best. I flat-out do not believe at all that story about a cousin being accosted by a man with a gun. The rest seems to be the stuff of a family badly wanting their loved one to be alive. In that respect, I certainly cannot fault them.

drew790 · 03-17-2019, 12:54 PM

The gun story is ridiculous. If the timeline of the segment isn't fluid then this occurred in 1990 (or at least between then and 1994 when this aired) and with knowledge of modern IT monitoring systems I have a very hard time believing such a system would have existed in the infancy of computing, where you could monitor the many credit bureau services' IT systems in the event a certain SSN was searched.

Did gunmen show up to threaten all the people who may have happened to make a typo?

Why would they expunge his record at all if they gave him a new identity? Certainly we're not in a world that cares about legalities, you'd just give him a new one and leave the other one linked to the dead man.

WishfulDreamer · 03-17-2019, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

It's the stuff of TV and movies.

This is precisely how I feel about the segment as a whole. Some of the more ridiculous moments:

1) The sister seeing "Curt" 3 times, but somehow the license plate was traced to someone totally unconnected and the third time she refuses to see him in a public place because her daughters are there. Couldn't she have had her daughters stand back and approached him herself? And if he was on a "secret mission" why would he allow himself to be spoken to and make contact several times? The whole thing is ludicrous.

2) The guy with the gun threatening the cousin for merely searching for the SSN AND the cousin being followed daily.

3) The phone call with "Curt" in the shadows.

4) The dad being approached in the parking lot to sign papers that supposedly declared Curt dead--but how could he know for sure if he was, by his own admission, functionally illiterate?

5) Wire tapping of the family's phone lines.

I certainly can't blame Curt's family for wanting to believe he was still alive. But I'm afraid that this segment was just chasing after wild conspiracy theories. It was a complete 180 of the Charles Shelton segment.

nicoge21 · 05-20-2019, 07:19 PM

Why would some random dude just hold a gun to you in the middle of broad daylight in a busy section of downtown like that. I'd imagine back then the situation would have been so out of place somebody walking by would have done something. And I doubt government agents would approach you in a random parking lot. I cant find any new info in this case except some old message board from back in 2000.

sgath92 · 09-30-2019, 05:46 PM

The government's story about grave robbing is probably accurate. There has been a very long running, widespread problem in Vietnam with mortuary fraud due to the myth over there that anyone who turns in the remains of a US soldier would be compensated for it. So many graves have been repeatedly disturbed by people trying to steal remains, thinking they can sell them to the US government or to fraudulently sell them to civilians by telling them its worth money & the US will buy it off them. This article talks about it: https://www.historynet.com/bone-dealers-in-vietnam.htm

The cousin's story about the social security number probably arose from either him or his supervisor misinterpreting the computer's results. It was probably not that the number came back as "was never issued" so much as, it belonged to someone legally deceased.

See, for decades the Social Security Administration has maintained a Social Security Death Registry, containing the social security numbers of people who have died, when they died (roughly), and where they last lived (roughly). The whole point of this database is so that lenders when screening people for credit can see if the applicant's number belongs to a deceased person, because deceased persons should not be given lines of credit (for obvious reasons). The cousin was trying to monitor Curt's social security number via a loan application (per the segment) and even in the early 90s, the computers would have immediately bounced that back due to the fact that Curt was legally dead. Depending on how the program was written, I could see it returning an error of "invalid social security number" or similar, but that wouldn't have to mean it was "never issued" like the cousin seems to believe.

Omar the Satanist · 10-01-2019, 04:23 AM

I hate these segments because it’s clear the loved one was killed but the family forces themselves to endure all this suffering by not being able to accept it. It sucks seeing people go through that.

There isn’t any mystery here; Curt Borton was obviously killed in Vietnam, and there was evidence to prove it. All the bizarre “clues” are straight-up lies, self delusion or people who don’t know anything about the military making up nonsense. They need to give themselves some peace and put Curt to rest.

Semper Fi, sir.

mphs95 · 05-16-2020, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRA2000TL

I just watched this case, and it is very strange. I did a search and it appears that as of last year, no updates have been noted. What does everyone think? I would assume that the family would be able to correctly identify their own son but why would he never respond? Even when they ran the plates of that car he was in, they came up with nothing. It just doesn't make sense.

This, to me, is one of the stranger cases on UM. It's almost as if they mystery is right there to be solved several times over but nothing ever comes of it.

I'm watching this segment on Pluto TV right now and those photos are not of Curt. The first one the soldier looks African American and the 2nd the mail looks Asian, or mixed race. Neither are Curt. Someone was messing with them.

mphs95 · 05-16-2020, 04:38 PM

Whomever gave him the SOC # may have transposed the numbers as well and it was a typo, which would be an invalid entry.

JannTosh · 08-26-2020, 04:27 PM

now this is one case that would never be made in a current incarnation of UM. Lmao.

ghosthouse · 08-26-2020, 09:53 PM

I think it has been mentioned...but what even is that phone call to Borton's dad with Curt in the background? If they are asking Curt's dad a question only he (the dad) would know the answer to....are they verifying that it's really Curt's dad?? Isn't that backwards in this story?

Latka Gravas · 01-07-2021, 01:36 AM

Re: the CB Jr. segment, while it was very tragic that the family never really got closure as to the fate of their son/brother - I don't believe that he survived the Vietnam war.

It seems evident that the pictures, supposed sightings in the U.S., etc. were all red herrings/false leads.

That being said, what is especially odd about this case are these elements:

1) Why were the two "alleged" military men harassing CB Senior in parking lots of groceries stores (more than once) until he signed off on some kind of letter admitting that his son had died - which resulted in his getting some $ from the govt. later?! Bizzarre.

2) Why was the cousin threatened in broad daylight (after he left work) allegedly because he input CB Jr.'s SSC in a computer database?! Also very odd.

3) Why the hell did CB Senior receive a call from a mysterious person asking who the identity was of CB Jr.'s babysitter?! WTF?!

Re: all of these mysterious events - if they did indeed happen, it sounds like some weirdos/sickos were harassing/messing with this family for some unknown reason.

khanartist79 · 03-26-2023, 09:09 AM

I watched this segment last night on PlutoTV, and I have to say: where Curt's family is concerned, I don't think it's a matter of seeing only what they want to see. I think -- and forgive me if this offends anyone -- but I think Curt's family is...how do I say this...not bright? I mean, the evidence could be there that he's still alive and living not far from them under an assumed name, but I don't believe they'd understand it if they saw it. And if they happen to be right that the government is lying to them about Curt's status, well, that's just dumb f'ing luck.

PingAnser3 · 04-03-2023, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khanartist79

I watched this segment last night on PlutoTV, and I have to say: where Curt's family is concerned, I don't think it's a matter of seeing only what they want to see. I think -- and forgive me if this offends anyone -- but I think Curt's family is...how do I say this...not bright? I mean, the evidence could be there that he's still alive and living not far from them under an assumed name, but I don't believe they'd understand it if they saw it. And if they happen to be right that the government is lying to them about Curt's status, well, that's just dumb f'ing luck.

Understood

rusty spike · 05-05-2023, 01:02 PM

If Curt was dangerous, then what was the family doing on UM? Wouldn't that create more problems?

I would hope that common sense would rule in believing soldiers captured and detained as POW would make good candidates for secret covert missions for the US Govt. The other two cases involving Vietnam vets who returned home with physical and mental injuries really struggled to put their lives in order (and they had supporting families). War was tremendously traumatizing and I don't believe that a secret spy program with new identities and firm rules of no contact with your former family makes any sense.

03-13-2019, 02:45 AM	#76
Guardian Member Forum Regular Join Date: May 19, 2010 Location: WA Posts: 522	Just watched this case for the first time in a while. While I firmly believe that Curt is dead and that he died in Vietnam, I will say that there are several instances noted by the family that are interesting to say the least. As far as the photos, I don’t get what you people are saying at all. The first picture from the magazine looks just like him to me. The second one however that was a still image from a film, that one looks nothing like him except for the vague shape of the face and the hairline. In my opinion the biggest thing to support Curt being alive is that the US government claims he is dead. I wouldn’t believe that I was alive myself if the government told me so lol. As to what the “mission” might be that Curt would have been recruited for, who knows? There were programs in place going back to at least the 50s and 60s where young low level GIs were recruited for intelligence programs with various assignments. So I have no problem believing that Curt might have been involved in something like this. However, I can’t buy the letting the soldiers come home but not ever being allowed to contact their family. For what purpose? The government would likely write them off or just “off” them before they would let them come back and potentially expose something they didn’t want to get out to the public. Something strange was going on to say the least. I don’t buy the “teeth” story on its own. Even if the family agreed to give DNA for comparison, I could envision a couple of scenarios where it could match and still not mean a damn thing. Now if it is true that more remains have been found, I’d be more inclined to believe that. The instances with the sister, I don’t know. I’d be inclined to believe she was mistaken, but I can’t see the guy making conversation the way he did if there wasn’t more to it. Of course if some stranger starts talking to me randomly in public, rather than look for some ominous code from the person, I’m more likely to be thinking “why the f*** are you talking to me? I don’t know you”, but that’s just me lol. Anyway, it is a strange case to say the least. And IMO it has a lot more merit than some of the other POW / missing person still being alive segments profiled on the show. But again, just to clarify, Curt probably did die in Vietnam.
	__________________ For every mystery there is someone, somewhere, who knows what happened. Perhaps... it's you...

03-17-2019, 10:35 AM	#77
MegtheEgg86 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Jun 19, 2008 Location: The Volunteer State Posts: 5,156	This is the Kenneth Engie of POW/MIA segments. This poor man died in Vietnam and was thrown in a mass grave. The reason the family only ever received Curt's teeth is likely because they were the only remains determined with near certainty to be Borton's based on dental records. No branch of the armed forces recruits someone months out of basic training for "special assignments", period. It's the stuff of TV and movies. Curt Borton was one of many, many young men that went through initial entry training and then straight to the jungle to backfill the position of another young man much like himself, either killed, finished with a term of service, or evacuated to the rear or out of the country for any number of reasons. Given stories like that of COL Charles Shelton and Mark Dennis, I always thought this one seemed tenuous--at very best. I flat-out do not believe at all that story about a cousin being accosted by a man with a gun. The rest seems to be the stuff of a family badly wanting their loved one to be alive. In that respect, I certainly cannot fault them.
	__________________ "Why is she lying?, it makes me wonder. What is she hiding?, it makes me wonder." Go Vols!

03-17-2019, 12:54 PM	#78
drew790 Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jul 17, 2017 Posts: 847	The gun story is ridiculous. If the timeline of the segment isn't fluid then this occurred in 1990 (or at least between then and 1994 when this aired) and with knowledge of modern IT monitoring systems I have a very hard time believing such a system would have existed in the infancy of computing, where you could monitor the many credit bureau services' IT systems in the event a certain SSN was searched. Did gunmen show up to threaten all the people who may have happened to make a typo? Why would they expunge his record at all if they gave him a new identity? Certainly we're not in a world that cares about legalities, you'd just give him a new one and leave the other one linked to the dead man.

05-20-2019, 07:19 PM	#80
nicoge21 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 19, 2009 Posts: 176	Why would some random dude just hold a gun to you in the middle of broad daylight in a busy section of downtown like that. I'd imagine back then the situation would have been so out of place somebody walking by would have done something. And I doubt government agents would approach you in a random parking lot. I cant find any new info in this case except some old message board from back in 2000.

09-30-2019, 05:46 PM	#81
sgath92 Member First Time Poster Join Date: Sep 30, 2019 Posts: 1	The government's story about grave robbing is probably accurate. There has been a very long running, widespread problem in Vietnam with mortuary fraud due to the myth over there that anyone who turns in the remains of a US soldier would be compensated for it. So many graves have been repeatedly disturbed by people trying to steal remains, thinking they can sell them to the US government or to fraudulently sell them to civilians by telling them its worth money & the US will buy it off them. This article talks about it: https://www.historynet.com/bone-dealers-in-vietnam.htm The cousin's story about the social security number probably arose from either him or his supervisor misinterpreting the computer's results. It was probably not that the number came back as "was never issued" so much as, it belonged to someone legally deceased. See, for decades the Social Security Administration has maintained a Social Security Death Registry, containing the social security numbers of people who have died, when they died (roughly), and where they last lived (roughly). The whole point of this database is so that lenders when screening people for credit can see if the applicant's number belongs to a deceased person, because deceased persons should not be given lines of credit (for obvious reasons). The cousin was trying to monitor Curt's social security number via a loan application (per the segment) and even in the early 90s, the computers would have immediately bounced that back due to the fact that Curt was legally dead. Depending on how the program was written, I could see it returning an error of "invalid social security number" or similar, but that wouldn't have to mean it was "never issued" like the cousin seems to believe.

10-01-2019, 04:23 AM	#82
Omar the Satanist Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Sep 17, 2019 Posts: 69	I hate these segments because it’s clear the loved one was killed but the family forces themselves to endure all this suffering by not being able to accept it. It sucks seeing people go through that. There isn’t any mystery here; Curt Borton was obviously killed in Vietnam, and there was evidence to prove it. All the bizarre “clues” are straight-up lies, self delusion or people who don’t know anything about the military making up nonsense. They need to give themselves some peace and put Curt to rest. Semper Fi, sir.

05-16-2020, 04:38 PM	#84
mphs95 Remember me? Forum Regular Join Date: Jan 02, 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 790	Whomever gave him the SOC # may have transposed the numbers as well and it was a typo, which would be an invalid entry.

08-26-2020, 04:27 PM	#85
JannTosh Member Forum Regular Join Date: Feb 28, 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 585	now this is one case that would never be made in a current incarnation of UM. Lmao.

08-26-2020, 09:53 PM	#86
ghosthouse Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 03, 2019 Location: Amish Country Posts: 294	I think it has been mentioned...but what even is that phone call to Borton's dad with Curt in the background? If they are asking Curt's dad a question only he (the dad) would know the answer to....are they verifying that it's really Curt's dad?? Isn't that backwards in this story?

01-07-2021, 01:36 AM	#87
Latka Gravas Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 27, 2019 Location: United States Posts: 395	Re: the CB Jr. segment, while it was very tragic that the family never really got closure as to the fate of their son/brother - I don't believe that he survived the Vietnam war. It seems evident that the pictures, supposed sightings in the U.S., etc. were all red herrings/false leads. That being said, what is especially odd about this case are these elements: 1) Why were the two "alleged" military men harassing CB Senior in parking lots of groceries stores (more than once) until he signed off on some kind of letter admitting that his son had died - which resulted in his getting some $ from the govt. later?! Bizzarre. 2) Why was the cousin threatened in broad daylight (after he left work) allegedly because he input CB Jr.'s SSC in a computer database?! Also very odd. 3) Why the hell did CB Senior receive a call from a mysterious person asking who the identity was of CB Jr.'s babysitter?! WTF?! Re: all of these mysterious events - if they did indeed happen, it sounds like some weirdos/sickos were harassing/messing with this family for some unknown reason.

03-26-2023, 09:09 AM	#88
khanartist79 Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Mar 12, 2023 Posts: 72	I watched this segment last night on PlutoTV, and I have to say: where Curt's family is concerned, I don't think it's a matter of seeing only what they want to see. I think -- and forgive me if this offends anyone -- but I think Curt's family is...how do I say this...not bright? I mean, the evidence could be there that he's still alive and living not far from them under an assumed name, but I don't believe they'd understand it if they saw it. And if they happen to be right that the government is lying to them about Curt's status, well, that's just dumb f'ing luck.

05-05-2023, 01:02 PM	#90
rusty spike Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 08, 2015 Location: Southwest Posts: 1,124	If Curt was dangerous, then what was the family doing on UM? Wouldn't that create more problems? I would hope that common sense would rule in believing soldiers captured and detained as POW would make good candidates for secret covert missions for the US Govt. The other two cases involving Vietnam vets who returned home with physical and mental injuries really struggled to put their lives in order (and they had supporting families). War was tremendously traumatizing and I don't believe that a secret spy program with new identities and firm rules of no contact with your former family makes any sense.