When a supporting character upstaged the star...and then got the boot.

[dee2364]

Originally Posted by cfr1970

And she made a gazillion off that 80's Thighmaster contraption, squeezing her thighs all the way to the bank while Ritter & DeWitt's careers pretty much faded after Threes Company. So she wound up getting the last laugh.

Ritter's career didn't fade. He starred in a series of movies and a TV show in the 80s that admittedly didn't match the success of Three's Company, but then had a major comeback with Sling Blade and 8 Simple Rules. He couldn't have been more popular when he died, which was what made his sudden death all the more tragic.

I don't see how Somers' career soared, either. She was the David Caruso of her day and will forever be remembered as the actress who stupidly sabotaged her career, much like Caruso did.

[cfr1970]

Originally Posted by dee2364

Ritter's career didn't fade. He starred in a series of movies and a TV show in the 80s that admittedly didn't match the success of Three's Company, but then had a major comeback with Sling Blade and 8 Simple Rules. He couldn't have been more popular when he died, which was what made his sudden death all the more tragic.

I don't see how Somers' career soared, either. She was the David Caruso of her day and will forever be remembered as the actress who stupidly sabotaged her career, much like Caruso did.

In comparison to Three's Company, Ritter's career certainly DID fade. Throughout the late 80's and all the 90's he may have worked, but nowhere near the success of his sitcom.

I remember he tried 2 TV shows in the 90's that both failed. "Hooperman" and "Hearts Afire" (neither of which I watched)

As for his films, I heard of Sling Blade, but had no idea he was even in that until reading your post. And I had the misfortune of seeing that God awful 89 film "Skin Deep". The glow in the dark condom scene is all I remember of that wretched film 30 years later.

And Suzanne's career certainly did soar at least financially. As mentioned, the Thighmaster earned her millions, as well as her various health and recipe books.
She knew how to continue earning millions after TC. And she was on a successful sitcom for 7 seasons with Step by Step.

So in comparison to each other, Somers' career was much more successful than Ritters after TC was done.

[favoriteshow]

Originally Posted by Duster76

One of the foundation blocks of comedy is contrasting characters, fat, skinny; short, tall; neat, sloppy; old, young; organized, scatter brain; etc. To introduce a new roommate who was a blond version of Janet functionally changed the entire series. When the show started it was about the problems encountered by three roommates with a unique living arrangement and the people they interact with. With the addition of Terri (Priscilla Barnes) the show became Jack and the people in his orbit, his roommates, his best friend, his landlord, his cooking career, his romantic life. This is about a star Ritter pushing changes behind the scenes. The show was not as good the final three seasons.

I agree - the show was definitely better in the earlier seasons with Chrissy and the contrasting characters.

However, I did like the cast change with Don Knotts replacing The Ropers as the landlord, as the Ropers schtick would have become tired. After The Ropers was cancelled - I wouldn't mind though if the Ropers would have come back but just as neighbors though. It was kind of boring for Larry to be the only friend.

[favoriteshow]

Originally Posted by cfr1970

In comparison to Three's Company, Ritter's career certainly DID fade. Throughout the late 80's and all the 90's he may have worked, but nowhere near the success of his sitcom.

I remember he tried 2 TV shows in the 90's that both failed. "Hooperman" and "Hearts Afire" (neither of which I watched)

As for his films, I heard of Sling Blade, but had no idea he was even in that until reading your post. And I had the misfortune of seeing that God awful 89 film "Skin Deep". The glow in the dark condom scene is all I remember of that wretched film 30 years later.

And Suzanne's career certainly did soar at least financially. As mentioned, the Thighmaster earned her millions, as well as her various health and recipe books.
She knew how to continue earning millions after TC. And she was on a successful sitcom for 7 seasons with Step by Step.

So in comparison to each other, Somers' career was much more successful than Ritters after TC was done.

Well they both had a significant period in the 80s/90s where neither of them were relevant. Suzanne definitely became successful again later in her life as you mentioned, but mainly outside of acting. But, Step By Step was just a TGIF show in the late 90s, but it was a long enough gig. She also became co-host on on Candid Camera. From there, she really rebounded and guest starred on Oprah.

John Ritter was the dad in the Problem Child franchise in the early 90s, movies panned by critics but was somewhat recognized then. (The politically correct of today would never allow Hollywood to make a movie called Problem Child), and I think 8 Simple Rules (in the 2000s) could have been very successful had he survived.

I'm glad that Suzanne and Joyce re-united many years later. Too bad, John and Suzanne didn't (at least on screen).

Speaking of parity, Gillian Anderson of X Files was offered a lot less than co-star David Duchovny and had to fight for parity for when negotiating for the series return. In 2016/2018.

[jehobden]

Originally Posted by dee2364

I thought the most famous example of what the OP is asking for was Joe Flynn from the Joey Bishop show getting canned because he got too many laughs.

This is the example I was going to post if no one else had. TV Guide had an article back in March 1962 pretty much stating this point exactly. Joe Flynn was getting more laughs than Joey Bishop, so Flynn had to go.

[Duster76]

Originally Posted by jehobden

This is the example I was going to post if no one else had. TV Guide had an article back in March 1962 pretty much stating this point exactly. Joe Flynn was getting more laughs than Joey Bishop, so Flynn had to go.

Bishop was some piece of work if you believe showbiz old timers. He treated his writers horribly, Rich Little characterized him as difficult and pompous, Jack Carter described him as a bulls**t act. He played a dual role in an episode of his series, his own character (Joey Barnes) and his cousin, he complained that his cousin was getting bigger laughs than him.

[1960'sTVfan]

Joe Flynn wasn't the only one that Joey Bishop fired, he also fired Guy Marks about mid way into the 2nd season. Marks leaving the show doesn't bother me because I think Corbett Monica is much better in the role of Joey's writer/manager. Joe Flynn wasn't on the show long enough to make much of an impression, but those early 1st season episodes he was in are pretty good. I'm not sure but I think Flynn's last episode in the series is the one where they strike oil in Joey's back yard.

Jack Carter guest starred in a season 3 episode, it's a pretty good episode. Season 3 is in my opinion the best season of the series. Joey Bishop might have been a difficult person but his sitcom is pretty good. Uneven at times, not every episode is great but the good ones are funny.

[glickmam]

Originally Posted by Duster76

Bishop was some piece of work if you believe showbiz old timers. He treated his writers horribly, Rich Little characterized him as difficult and pompous, Jack Carter described him as a bulls**t act. He played a dual role in an episode of his series, his own character (Joey Barnes) and his cousin, he complained that his cousin was getting bigger laughs than him.

Indeed, Bishop really should have followed Jack Benny's mantra: "I don't care who gets the laughs on my show, as long as the show is funny."

[icecream]

Originally Posted by theoneandonlytvqueen

]mary lousie wilson as ginny on one day at a time. she only lasted a season
glenn scarpelli as alex on one day a time. he didn't do the last seasson\
jason bateman on silver spoons left after either the 2nd or 3 rd season/

Jason Bateman was overrated on Silver Spoons. He didn't add much to the show, and I would not consider him to have upstaged Ricky Schroder. Plus Jason Bateman never made it into the opening credits or a series regular, while his replacement Alfonso Ribeiro did.

[James28]

Originally Posted by loaferman

I do not recall reading anything good about Linda Lavin from those who worked with her. She had the idea she was some superstar since the show was named after her character but she was not even likeable on the show. It would have been better to give Linda the boot and keep Polly.

You mean fire the person that portrays the title character? Then this would be grounds for a Hogan Family-like situation. I think there would've been a lawsuit from Linda if she were forced out of Alice, and there would have either been a re-cast of the Alice character, or the show's name would be forced to change.

[Duster76]

Originally Posted by James28

You mean fire the person that portrays the title character? Then this would be grounds for a Hogan Family-like situation. I think there would've been a lawsuit from Linda if she were forced out of Alice, and there would have either been a re-cast of the Alice character, or the show's name would be forced to change.

Linda would have lost that lawsuit in a heartbeat. Lavin played the lead but the series was based on the movie "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore", Valerie was the name of the series and Valerie Harper of course played the lead. The name Valerie was picked to better connect the series to the star and derive the advantages of the goodwill created by the star.


I don't think any of this would have come into play, if Lavin left or was fired the producers wouldn't want the connection to a character no longer in the show. The series probably would have changed names to Mel's or Mel's Diner, either would have identified the series to fans of the sitcom. One final point, Lavin was obviously difficult to get along with, but she is a very talented actress who fully developed that character adding many nuances to the characterization. Stars can be difficult, but the series had a long run, I don't think replacing Lavin ever entered anyone's head.

[glickmam]

Originally Posted by James28

You mean fire the person that portrays the title character? Then this would be grounds for a Hogan Family-like situation. I think there would've been a lawsuit from Linda if she were forced out of Alice, and there would have either been a re-cast of the Alice character, or the show's name would be forced to change.

Exactly. In fact, even if there was no lawsuit filed, who do you think the general public at large are going to sympathize with, the actors or the producers? You guessed it, the actors, given how they're more etched into the public consciousness and are more known to the public than producers are.

[Edward216]

Originally Posted by loaferman

I do not recall reading anything good about Linda Lavin from those who worked with her. She had the idea she was some superstar since the show was named after her character but she was not even likeable on the show. It would have been better to give Linda the boot and keep Polly.

I disagree I think Alice was likable. But there were times it was obvious onscreen there was friction between Linda Lavin and Polly Holliday. But you don't get that stuff when you're just a kid LOL.

Ed.

[rusty spike]

How about Valerie Harper and Cloris Leachman leaving MTM to star in their own shows?

Is is possible that Mary was envious of their characters on her show?

[Duster76]

Originally Posted by rusty spike

How about Valerie Harper and Cloris Leachman leaving MTM to star in their own shows?

Is is possible that Mary was envious of their characters on her show?

In a word no. In addition to being the star of the series she was also an owner of the production company, brand expansion was very big in the 70's, both moves made perfect sense.