Jill and Julie Hansen

[dynoguy88]

Originally Posted by DazzlerSparkler

If innocent why go in silhouette and alter your voice?

I assume he did that in order to avoid harassment from the residents who lived wherever he moved to and would learn of the saga from watching the UM segment. Locals who know you're guilty as sin will have no problem making your life miserable.

Changing your name and hiding your identity on UM would probably help him avoid that. Not a dumb move on his part.

[MissTree]

I am completely confused as to why the police didn't get a statement from Julie. That surely would have been admissable in court. From what I understand, she lived for like a year after the crime so there was lots of time.

[MissTree]

I don't believe that there were accomplices. I think Donnie knew his mother was listening and pretended to be shouting at someone to make it seem like someone else did the crime and he scared them away.

[MissTree]

Originally Posted by danmanx

HOW DID HIS PARENTS NOT HEAR SHOTGUN BLASTS?!?!

The mother responded on the UM Wiki and said that she did hear the gunshot and that is what woke her up.

I know someone else already clarified this but people still keep saying ot over and over again.

[Kane]

Originally Posted by MissTree

I am completely confused as to why the police didn't get a statement from Julie. That surely would have been admissable in court. From what I understand, she lived for like a year after the crime so there was lots of time.

That's incorrect. Julie died on December 19, 1986, one month after the crime.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...lie-ann-hansen

[MissTree]

Originally Posted by Kane

That's incorrect. Julie died on December 19, 1986, one month after the crime.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...lie-ann-hansen

Ok. Sorry. However, why could they not get a statement in a month?

[Kane]

Originally Posted by MissTree

Ok. Sorry. However, why could they not get a statement in a month?

I don't know the details on the matter, or even whether or not they got or tried to get a statement from her. Unless someone involved in the investigation can explain it, that question will probably remain unanswered.

[StackTime]

Originally Posted by Kane

I don't know the details on the matter, or even whether or not they got or tried to get a statement from her. Unless someone involved in the investigation can explain it, that question will probably remain unanswered.

It could have been that she was on heavy medication, unwilling and/or unable to make a statement until she made progress. Maybe undergoing multiple surgeries or procedures to repair the gunshot wound damage. Maybe the time had not yet arrived when she could make a statement that could be relied upon as a memory she would also recall when not on tons of meds, come time to testify.

You put enough opiates in me after a near-fatal gunshot wound, I might easily recall the days I played center for the Sacramento Kings.

But anyway, her death was eventually due to the accident in the hospital, which could not have been predicted. I'm guessing there was no pressure in that month to get a statement. They could have been focusing otherwise on the investigation, giving her time to heal, and may have later pressed for a statement. Only she died unpredictably before that could happen.

Hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

[Todd Mueller]

^^^

What you said. Plus, I'm sure they talked to her (they show this in the reenactment) but they were probably waiting to do a formal statement until she was out of the hospital.

CRicci can correct me, but I'm pretty sure anything she said would have been inadmissible at trial because she couldn't be cross examined by the defense. Maybe it would have been different had she done a formal, taped, or authorized statement to police.

It's for this reason that I am very suspicious of how Julie died. Those type of accidents are extremely rare and you almost have to intentionally introduce enough air in an IV to make it fatal. It's totally fishy that she died in such a rare fashion before she could be released from the hospital to make her official statement. Awfully convenient for the killer. *cough* Donnie

[StackTime]

Originally Posted by Todd Mueller

^^^

What you said. Plus, I'm sure they talked to her (they show this in the reenactment) but they were probably waiting to do a formal statement until she was out of the hospital.

CRicci can correct me, but I'm pretty sure anything she said would have been inadmissible at trial because she couldn't be cross examined by the defense. Maybe it would have been different had she done a formal, taped, or authorized statement to police.

It's for this reason that I am very suspicious of how Julie died. Those type of accidents are extremely rare and you almost have to intentionally introduce enough air in an IV to make it fatal. It's totally fishy that she died in such a rare fashion before she could be released from the hospital to make her official statement. Awfully convenient for the killer. *cough* Donnie

The only point of disagreement would be that her death was anything but a freak accident and maybe one of the luckiest defense breaks of all time. I don't think Donnie had the brains nor criminal skill to pull it off. Even if he somehow knew the effect the air would have (pre-Internet, mind you), to sneak into the hospital and do it, then leave, completely undetected? After so stupidly showing up to a guarded site to retrieve the murder weapon?

Nahhh. Maybe he had a smarter friend suggest it but I think the most probable scenario is the freak accident. That lucky SOB. 99.9% of the time otherwise, he's getting the chair, instead of a new identity.

[MissTree]

Originally Posted by StackTime

It could have been that she was on heavy medication, unwilling and/or unable to make a statement until she made progress. Maybe undergoing multiple surgeries or procedures to repair the gunshot wound damage. Maybe the time had not yet arrived when she could make a statement that could be relied upon as a memory she would also recall when not on tons of meds, come time to testify.

You put enough opiates in me after a near-fatal gunshot wound, I might easily recall the days I played center for the Sacramento Kings.

But anyway, her death was eventually due to the accident in the hospital, which could not have been predicted. I'm guessing there was no pressure in that month to get a statement. They could have been focusing otherwise on the investigation, giving her time to heal, and may have later pressed for a statement. Only she died unpredictably before that could happen.

Hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

I am not sure I buy it. She apparently was questioned by her doctor who thought she was lucid and stood by things she said. Her parents also re-tell the detailed story she told them. There have been cases where the police are taking statements from victims during the ambulance ride to the hospital! By all accounts, she was recovering well. So to say in three months nobody got anything written down from her? Either that's pretty shoddy and unusual police work or there is a statement somewhere. Now what or bot it is admissable is another question.

[StackTime]

Originally Posted by MissTree

I am not sure I buy it. She apparently was questioned by her doctor who thought she was lucid and stood by things she said. Her parents also re-tell the detailed story she told them. There have been cases where the police are taking statements from victims during the ambulance ride to the hospital! By all accounts, she was recovering well. So to say in three months nobody got anything written down from her? Either that's pretty shoddy and unusual police work or there is a statement somewhere. Now what or bot it is admissable is another question.

1) I think there's a lot of variability in the statement veracity. For one, she may not have fully trusted her doctor with the truth (many minors do not fully understand medical confidentiality, and no HIPAA at the time). So, maybe she wasn't sure she could name Donnie to the doctor without the risk of Donnie finding out. But she could to her parents; presumably she trusted them. That takes physical condition and meds out of the equation but still explains it plausibly.

2) I think my point holds about the unpredictability of the accident explaining in part why they didn't get an official statement. Why rush a hospitalized patient recovering from a massive gunshot wound (not to mention the arson property losses and death of her twin sister) if the defendant is already in custody on what was thought to be very strong evidence? Just wait until she's a bit better, can give consistent statements (perhaps even with more detail), and add to your case. Don't risk causing/exacerbating psychological disorders and fully discrediting her as a witness by premature pressure when you shouldn't have needed that evidence anyway. Guilty persons are convicted on far less all the time. Right or wrong. But that might be the prosecutor perspective before Julie's death.

3) You are right about ambulance information, but it is not always as reliable as in the "Carol" case, or even one of the Zodiac cases. FWIW, in both of those examples, the information could never be fully verified (just the odd truck behavior, nothing about the shooting itself), nor was a suspect apprehended - or even identified based on that specific information. For instance,
Joan Porco implicated her son Chris in her attempted murder and the murder of her husband while being attended to medically, but later steadfastly retracted. Maybe with her husband gone she couldn't handle losing Chris, maybe the "nod" wasn't reliable, or, maybe it was, but the post-hoc reversal is what was not reliable. Helped the prosecution in this case FWIW - but shows why you might not take an early ID and run with it until the witness is in a better position to confirm.

https://dailygazette.com/article/2011/10/18/1018_trial

Come on, nobody's going to prove this so we have to play probabilities. And the greatest probability has to be that Donnie at least orchestrated the murder, attempted murders, and arson, if he didn't pull it off himself.

I just don't think he was responsible for the air bubble accident for reasons mentioned already.

But he sure loved gas, a gas can, a gun, and ammo all used in the crimes, then took steps to cover this up (hiding the gun that night, trying to get the gun in warehouse; never mentioning the gas to investigators, lying about most of these things). He never claimed to tell anyone he had these before the crimes, so how would anyone know? Yes it's possible criminals or stalker types showed up without tools of the crime and pulled it off, but that has to be the far less likely probability.

It's also technically possible OJ didn't do it - just so extremely unlikely that it may as well be impossible.

[MissTree]

Originally Posted by StackTime

1) I think there's a lot of variability in the statement veracity. For one, she may not have fully trusted her doctor with the truth (many minors do not fully understand medical confidentiality, and no HIPAA at the time). So, maybe she wasn't sure she could name Donnie to the doctor without the risk of Donnie finding out. But she could to her parents; presumably she trusted them. That takes physical condition and meds out of the equation but still explains it plausibly.

2) I think my point holds about the unpredictability of the accident explaining in part why they didn't get an official statement. Why rush a hospitalized patient recovering from a massive gunshot wound (not to mention the arson property losses and death of her twin sister) if the defendant is already in custody on what was thought to be very strong evidence? Just wait until she's a bit better, can give consistent statements (perhaps even with more detail), and add to your case. Don't risk causing/exacerbating psychological disorders and fully discrediting her as a witness by premature pressure when you shouldn't have needed that evidence anyway. Guilty persons are convicted on far less all the time. Right or wrong. But that might be the prosecutor perspective before Julie's death.

3) You are right about ambulance information, but it is not always as reliable as in the "Carol" case, or even one of the Zodiac cases. FWIW, in both of those examples, the information could never be fully verified (just the odd truck behavior, nothing about the shooting itself), nor was a suspect apprehended - or even identified based on that specific information. For instance,
Joan Porco implicated her son Chris in her attempted murder and the murder of her husband while being attended to medically, but later steadfastly retracted. Maybe with her husband gone she couldn't handle losing Chris, maybe the "nod" wasn't reliable, or, maybe it was, but the post-hoc reversal is what was not reliable. Helped the prosecution in this case FWIW - but shows why you might not take an early ID and run with it until the witness is in a better position to confirm.

https://dailygazette.com/article/2011/10/18/1018_trial

Come on, nobody's going to prove this so we have to play probabilities. And the greatest probability has to be that Donnie at least orchestrated the murder, attempted murders, and arson, if he didn't pull it off himself.

I just don't think he was responsible for the air bubble accident for reasons mentioned already.

But he sure loved gas, a gas can, a gun, and ammo all used in the crimes, then took steps to cover this up (hiding the gun that night, trying to get the gun in warehouse; never mentioning the gas to investigators, lying about most of these things). He never claimed to tell anyone he had these before the crimes, so how would anyone know? Yes it's possible criminals or stalker types showed up without tools of the crime and pulled it off, but that has to be the far less likely probability.

It's also technically possible OJ didn't do it - just so extremely unlikely that it may as well be impossible.

I never suggested Donnie didn't do it. I said I was sure he did and without accomplishes.

I was just saying that there was probably a statement out there somewhere because it would have been standard police work to get one. Police don't wait until people recover to take them and here we are why.

[TheCars1986]

Is it possible that the police did get a statement of sorts from her where she told them the same thing she told her doctor that she couldn't remember seeing anyone and that UM left that tidbit out of the segment?

[UMlover]

Sorry to bump this thread—wanted to say I’ve always found it fascinating that UM included the very brief interview with Julie’s doctor where he says “Julie definitely didn’t tell me she saw Donnie in the gun flash.” It’s interesting because for the entire segment it’s evidence on top of evidence on top of evidence that Donnie is guilty and UM plays that angle hard. There is the preposterous “alternate version of events” proposed by Donnie’s lawyer, but it’s just absurd to me. The doctor’s interview on the other hand, seems like UM included it to say “Donnie’s guilty as hell, but if there’s one thing we really don’t understand, it’s this”

just feels out of place, funny to me that it was included