Billie dumping Gary

[cfr1970]

I really never cared for either of these characters, but I thought the scene at the end of tonight's episode was really done well. The way Billie acted when she was breaking up with Gary in the kitchen came across so real and raw and reminded me of a similar break up I experienced many (many many many!) moons ago when I was her age.

Her words and emotions were almost exactly the same as mine that it flooded all those memories back while watching that I was totally in that moment and tearing up along with Billie because I knew, and remembered from my own experience, exactly how she felt.

I also loved how Archie came in to comfort her afterwards. It was such an emotional and sweet moment and I wish the show had more of these family moments over the "bar comedy" that was so prevalent.

I know it was called "Archie Bunker's Place" so the focus was supposed to be on the bar...but I can't help but wonder if the show would have lasted longer and been more successful had it just been called "Archie" and focused more on his new family and home life over the bar.

Anyway, there's just 2 more episodes to go now before it cycles around again from the beginning. I loved being able to see the series in it's entirety since not viewing it since it originally aired. I'm glad Antenna TV added it to the lineup but will probably not tune in for another go round. Once for me was enough.

Now All in the Family episodes, I can watch over and over and over (which I do lol).

[VisualSensation]

I just watched that scene too and felt the same way. It summed up the series, which I think had so much potential being an extension of All In the Family, but just never quite lived up to it. Especially the final season, where Archie essentially reverted to a supporting character. There were also several characters, like Pat the union bartender, Bruce the Chinese fly swatter, and Fred the gay waiter who seemed to be very interesting characters but were never really developed by the writers. Instead they delivered excessive amounts of Gary and Billie, the two most vanilla characters on the series. Barry Gordon's and Denise Miller's claim to fame up that point was co-starring on the Barney Miller spinoff, "Fish", which says everything you need to know about them. After the series, Gordon found a niche as a VO actor and Miller just had a few guest shots.

I read that Carroll O'Connor was devastated when the series was canceled, but the guy clearly wasn't paying attention to the dead end the writers forced it into. If they had just focused on Archie interacting with a rotation of new interesting characters the series probably could have gone on another year or two.

[cfr1970]

Originally Posted by VisualSensation

I just watched that scene too and felt the same way. It summed up the series, which I think had so much potential being an extension of All In the Family, but just never quite lived up to it. Especially the final season, where Archie essentially reverted to a supporting character. There were also several characters, like Pat the union bartender, Bruce the Chinese fly swatter, and Fred the gay waiter who seemed to be very interesting characters but were never really developed by the writers. Instead they delivered excessive amounts of Gary and Billie, the two most vanilla characters on the series. Barry Gordon's and Denise Miller's claim to fame up that point was co-starring on the Barney Miller spinoff, "Fish", which says everything you need to know about them. After the series, Gordon found a niche as a VO actor and Miller just had a few guest shots.

I read that Carroll O'Connor was devastated when the series was canceled, but the guy clearly wasn't paying attention to the dead end the writers forced it into. If they had just focused on Archie interacting with a rotation of new interesting characters the series probably could have gone on another year or two.

Until your post, I had completely forgotten about the gay waiter from early in the series. Yes, he was interesting and there was a wealth of stories there working for someone like Archie.
My theory why his character was dropped was the era it aired. Soon after the character appeared, the AIDS epidemic began. I don't know if you lived during that time, but back then gays were suddenly equated with AIDS and my guess is the writers didn't want that on people's minds while watching so he was scrapped...but that's just my personal theory.

I also liked Pat the female bartender in the last season and wanted to see more of her too. Along with Mrs. Canby and Steffie's grandmother....these characters were all interesting but under utilized.

Billie & Gary should never have came along and they just brought the show down. Billie I can see why they added her....Steffie was still too young for serious love interests and I think that was the reasoning for bringing her in.

What I would've loved to have seen done was instead of giving Sally Struthers her own show (who on earth thought that was a good idea?!), her character should've moved back to Queens, rented an apartment over the bar with Joey and worked downstairs at the bar while going back to college part time.

Also, having the Meathead just abandon his child for a commune was completely out of his character. I think having him die in a car accident would've been more realistic, and given Gloria a huge bonding moment with Archie having them both be widowed.

ABP really did have the worst writers who wrote the show without any real focus of where it was going. It just zig zagged all over the place.

Another missed opportunity was the Puerto Rican girlfriend. This was such a great story that was told in the worst possible way. Did you also cringe when Archie was at the dinner table with her family and spewed out all those racist words towards them all?

Perhaps in 1973 he's have done that, but no way would he have a decade later. If the writers thought that reverting him back 10 years would be funny, they were so mistaken.
I cringed at that scene and knew that would NOT be how Archie would have acted at that table at that point in time. No way. So they ruined that relationship that should have been slowly nurtured and able to grow.

I can see why Carroll O Connor was upset the series was cancelled, but he was in charge of a lot during the show. I think in the credits he was listed as "Story Editor" and even Writer and Director for a few episodes. So some of the blame can be placed on him too for letting the show sink the way it did.

[Heenan Fan]

I never liked Billie with Gary anyway.

[Retro Vic]

I agree with this as well. Billie Bunker?? WTH?? The first 10 episodes of ABP were good, almost like a 10th season of AITF. The Stephanie character was always good, when they treated it correctly, Barney Hefner also a good character, they could have done a few more Barney & Blanche episodes. Veronica & the gay waiter were excellent characters & they started out really well, & they just kinda dropped that idea, they could’ve stretched that out for a couple of seasons. They should have brought back more of the old AITF characters, like Martha Burkhorn, maybe the original Carol from Maude, Marty’s Jewish mother & aunt were good, the Kate Corman actress would’ve been great, but they went with “Billie Bunker” sheesh, no wonder the show tanked.

[Bonniegirl]

I liked the addition of Archie's niece Billie, and I liked when her and Gary got together! I liked him too!! I was sad when she broke up with him!!

[Bonniegirl]

Gary Rabinowitz /Barry Gordon just showed up on Dennis the menace as Buzzy Hanson! This ep.was right around the same time he guest starred on Leave it to Beaver as Chopper ! He was a cute little boy!

[TVFactFan]

Originally Posted by cfr1970

I really never cared for either of these characters, but I thought the scene at the end of tonight's episode was really done well. The way Billie acted when she was breaking up with Gary in the kitchen came across so real and raw and reminded me of a similar break up I experienced many (many many many!) moons ago when I was her age.

Her words and emotions were almost exactly the same as mine that it flooded all those memories back while watching that I was totally in that moment and tearing up along with Billie because I knew, and remembered from my own experience, exactly how she felt.

I also loved how Archie came in to comfort her afterwards. It was such an emotional and sweet moment and I wish the show had more of these family moments over the "bar comedy" that was so prevalent.

I know it was called "Archie Bunker's Place" so the focus was supposed to be on the bar...but I can't help but wonder if the show would have lasted longer and been more successful had it just been called "Archie" and focused more on his new family and home life over the bar.

Anyway, there's just 2 more episodes to go now before it cycles around again from the beginning. I loved being able to see the series in it's entirety since not viewing it since it originally aired. I'm glad Antenna TV added it to the lineup but will probably not tune in for another go round. Once for me was enough.

Now All in the Family episodes, I can watch over and over and over (which I do lol).

I would take any season of ABP over season 1 and 9 of All in the Family

[TVFactFan]

I didnt mind Gary and Billie, gave the show a more adult type of feel and took attention away from stephanie.

[sm95fan]

Originally Posted by cfr1970

Until your post, I had completely forgotten about the gay waiter from early in the series. Yes, he was interesting and there was a wealth of stories there working for someone like Archie.
My theory why his character was dropped was the era it aired. Soon after the character appeared, the AIDS epidemic began. I don't know if you lived during that time, but back then gays were suddenly equated with AIDS and my guess is the writers didn't want that on people's minds while watching so he was scrapped...but that's just my personal theory.

And that theory is completely wrong. AIDS was not clinically identified until 18 months after Fred was dropped and not really known widely publicly until Jul 85, two and a half years after ABP was canceled. A better theory would have been pressure from CBS for the cast to get younger. Fred, his 'girlfriend' Linda, the pushy union waitress I suspect were attempts to do this which eventually lead to 18 year old Billie Bunker being added as a permanent character.

[sm95fan]

Originally Posted by TVFactFan

I didnt mind Gary and Billie, gave the show a more adult type of feel and took attention away from stephanie.

I thought Gary was cool. I felt they wasted too much time on his family though. Season 4 of ABP felt like a backdoor pilot for another spin off focusing on the Rabinowitz clan, Gary, Barry, and Marsha.

[TVFactFan]

Originally Posted by sm95fan

I thought Gary was cool. I felt they wasted too much time on his family though. Season 4 of ABP felt like a backdoor pilot for another spin off focusing on the Rabinowitz clan, Gary, Barry, and Marsha.

As long as it wasnt about stephanie

[sm95fan]

Lovely Denise talks a little about the episode here. It was a set up for the next season, which unfortunately never happened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Ese_xYNPo&t

[TVFactFan]

Originally Posted by sm95fan

Lovely Denise talks a little about the episode here. It was a set up for the next season, which unfortunately never happened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Ese_xYNPo&t

Preferred seeing her character more than stephanie in last season