Philip Fraser

[SertumAEnigmA]

Originally Posted by macbeth06

I honestly think that he was shot with a handgun.

Police confirmed he was shot with a handgun.

[1990 UM fan]

Not sure if I posted this, but someone sent me Philip's death certificate many months back and Philip died from multiple gunshot wounds (three I think, but it didn't say where on the body). Due to the condition his body was in (a month and a half had passed since Philip was killed when his body was found), he was cremated and the ashes scattered over Otter Lake in Anchorage, Alaska. Philip's father Robert died in 2014 of complications from diabetes, but his mother Shirley is still alive and still a neurologist in Anchorage.

[SertumAEnigmA]

Originally Posted by 1990 UM fan

Not sure if I posted this, but someone sent me Philip's death certificate many months back and Philip died from multiple gunshot wounds (three I think, but it didn't say where on the body). Due to the condition his body was in (a month and a half had passed since Philip was killed when his body was found), he was cremated and the ashes scattered over Otter Lake in Anchorage, Alaska. Philip's father Robert died in 2014 of complications from diabetes, but his mother Shirley is still alive and still a neurologist in Anchorage.

Someone mentioned previously that he had a brother or two and one was a doctor as well? Could be thinking of someone else.

[ruhroh]

Originally Posted by 1990 UM fan

A lot of good points have been made as to the motive for Philip's murder. What I want to know is if this hitchhiker is a serial killer. Another thing that comes to mind, is if this killer had a personality disorder that made him want to take the identity of someone else (in this case, Philip Fraser), due to dissatisfaction with himself. He may have low self-esteem due to being overweight, unattractive and unsuccessful in life, and felt that stealing the identity of Philip, a younger, attractive, successful guy, would make the killer feel better about himself. It's bothersome to think that this guy may have killed before or since Philip's murder. Hopefully the police can improvise on the original sketches so that someone could possibly identify him.

Good points. The Frocklages mentioned that they thought the hitchhiker was mentally ill. Based on pictures, the hitchhiker and phillip couldn't be more different. The hitchhiker was obviously strange/unstable, not well kempt, overweight, and short on cash. Phillip came from a successful family of doctors, was on his way to study pre-med, and had a car and some money. Phillip was nicer looking, if not super handsome. But he radiated wholesomeness whereas the killer did not. Perhaps the killer was jealous of Phillip, because he resented all the things Phillip had and what he represented.

I wondered why he didn't kill the Olsons, but perhaps he didn't feel that same way about the Olsons because they were nice to him, not close to him in age, and he didn't envy them in the same way. If the killer is a volatile person who came to resent Phillip, he may have had the same pattern in the past. Hating men close to his age whom he felt were more successful/on their way to becoming successful. If the killer has killed before, he may have a specific person that triggers him to rage. Someone like Phillip. Perhaps the car started to break down, the killer saw it as an opportunity, or simply got angry because the car was breaking down and blamed their bad luck on Phillip.

just some thoughts. I am new to the board and enjoying your thoughts on UM. So many of those cases I wish could be solved. Hopefully, one day they will be.

[Hasho]

Originally Posted by Hot Jock

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wayne_McGray

I have a lot I can share to implicate him, but it doesn't matter much at this point. Michael Wayne McGray will never see the light of day since he is in prison and will never be granted parole and Philip Fraser has no surviving relatives that I can find. "Solving" this case at this point would sadly be nothing more than a formality and unfortunately the RCMP don't seem to care.

This picture of him gives me the heebee jeebees. Looks like the picture from the composite sketch

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by ruhroh

Good points. The Frocklages mentioned that they thought the hitchhiker was mentally ill. Based on pictures, the hitchhiker and phillip couldn't be more different. The hitchhiker was obviously strange/unstable, not well kempt, overweight, and short on cash. Phillip came from a successful family of doctors, was on his way to study pre-med, and had a car and some money. Phillip was nicer looking, if not super handsome. But he radiated wholesomeness whereas the killer did not. Perhaps the killer was jealous of Phillip, because he resented all the things Phillip had and what he represented.

I wondered why he didn't kill the Olsons, but perhaps he didn't feel that same way about the Olsons because they were nice to him, not close to him in age, and he didn't envy them in the same way. If the killer is a volatile person who came to resent Phillip, he may have had the same pattern in the past. Hating men close to his age whom he felt were more successful/on their way to becoming successful. If the killer has killed before, he may have a specific person that triggers him to rage. Someone like Phillip. Perhaps the car started to break down, the killer saw it as an opportunity, or simply got angry because the car was breaking down and blamed their bad luck on Phillip.

just some thoughts. I am new to the board and enjoying your thoughts on UM. So many of those cases I wish could be solved. Hopefully, one day they will be.

The motive was simple. You're thinking way too hard about it. Phillip had what the hitchhiker wanted, the end. Phillip was half of his size/weight, as well as had a money and vehicle. I don't think the hitchhiker was thinking about how much nicer Phillip looked, but that he wanted his vehicle and money.

I don't think a hitchhiker slumming it is really concerned with jealousy. He killed Phillip because he was an easy target. The hitchhiker didn't kill the women in the cafe, or the Olsons, so I don't think he was a serial killer. Just a crime of opportunity.

Given how reluctant Phillip was to give him a ride, a part of me thinks that Phillip probably told him to get out, and the hitchhiker killed him instead.

[ruhroh]

Originally Posted by freakbook

The motive was simple. You're thinking way too hard about it. Phillip had what the hitchhiker wanted, the end. Phillip was half of his size/weight, as well as had a money and vehicle. I don't think the hitchhiker was thinking about how much nicer Phillip looked, but that he wanted his vehicle and money.

I don't think a hitchhiker slumming it is really concerned with jealousy. He killed Phillip because he was an easy target. The hitchhiker didn't kill the women in the cafe, or the Olsons, so I don't think he was a serial killer. Just a crime of opportunity.

Given how reluctant Phillip was to give him a ride, a part of me thinks that Phillip probably told him to get out, and the hitchhiker killed him instead.

Perhaps you are right and it was simple opportunity. I am just surprised that he got rid of the car so quickly. He had hidden the body well and could have continued using that car for a while. Was he panicking at that point? Why not get further away before burning it? Did it break down again? And why burn it instead of just driving it into the woods and covering it up? Or drive it to a major city, dump it, and take the bus from there? It's a very remote area. He attracted a lot of attention to himself in doing that. This was before the age of DNA. Phillip's blood might have been in it, but unless this guy's fingerprints were in the system, why would he care? He'd be long gone at that point. Maybe it is that Mcgray guy, or someone who had a previous arrest record, or military record. Someone with fingerprints on file. The pic really does look like the composite sketch.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by ruhroh

Perhaps you are right and it was simple opportunity. I am just surprised that he got rid of the car so quickly. He had hidden the body well and could have continued using that car for a while. Was he panicking at that point? Why not get further away before burning it? Did it break down again? And why burn it instead of just driving it into the woods and covering it up? Or drive it to a major city, dump it, and take the bus from there? It's a very remote area. He attracted a lot of attention to himself in doing that. This was before the age of DNA. Phillip's blood might have been in it, but unless this guy's fingerprints were in the system, why would he care? He'd be long gone at that point. Maybe it is that Mcgray guy, or someone who had a previous arrest record, or military record. Someone with fingerprints on file. The pic really does look like the composite sketch.

He probably burned it because of DNA left behind in the car. Blood, hair, etc. Not only that, but the guy who let him sleep in the house had seen the vehicle, and helped him work on it, so blowing it up probably seemed more logical to him so that it would buy him more time to get away (in his mind). But I think destroying evidence was probably his number one priority. If Phillip was killed in the car, then that's DNA city.

You bring up a lot of great points such as why not just dump it in the city and leave, but who knows? I also like your point about him having a record, so maybe that's why he didn't want his fingerprints found. However, it's hard to be in a logical state of mind when you just commited murder and you're fleeing, so who knows what was going through his mind.

WELCOME TO THE BOARD BTW

EDIT: Actually it just hit me. He probably blew up the car because he probably knew that the police were searching for Phillip. If he was seen still driving his car while the police were searching for Phillip then he'd get arrested. I guess blowing it up made more sense after all.

[SertumAEnigmA]

Originally Posted by freakbook

The motive was simple. You're thinking way too hard about it. Phillip had what the hitchhiker wanted, the end. Phillip was half of his size/weight, as well as had a money and vehicle. I don't think the hitchhiker was thinking about how much nicer Phillip looked, but that he wanted his vehicle and money.

Agreed. This appeared to be more of a robbery related homicide than an act of a serial killer. If not a robbery, then he might have got angry with Philip at some point, might have been amplified due to mental illness or instability. Perhaps felt Phillip had made a pass at him or was going to ditch him.

The Olsons described him as nervous when they picked him up then he attempted to sell the car to get to Seattle. Soon as he got to Prince George, he burned up the car. This would virtually make the crime untraceable barring a death bed confession or this individual coming forward due to guilt.

Nothing really suggests this was the act of a serial killer. Even if it was, there were so many murders in Canada during this time frame, that it would be impossible to pin it on someone.

I often wondered if the Frocklages exaggerated slightly when describing the encounter. They came forward weeks later, yet seemed to remember this individual so well.

[jOHnNyD]

Also the Olsens didn't describe this guy in terms even close to the way the Frocklages did. The Frocklages described him as almost from another dimension.

[SertumAEnigmA]

Originally Posted by jOHnNyD

Also the Olsens didn't describe this guy in terms even close to the way the Frocklages did. The Frocklages described him as almost from another dimension.

Exactly. The physical descriptions are pretty on point. But the Frocklages describe him as "mentally off" and threatening. So much so, Tina allegedly said "he'd live to regret" giving the hitchhiker a ride. Yet, the Olsons described him as nervous and later suspicious but were totally comfortable allowing him to stay the night in their home.

[jOHnNyD]

The killer knew that he couldn't get out of the area without help and had to pass himself off as a plausible human being. Which would suggest to me he was probably a weirdo, but mentally sound. The irony is what did he really get out of this crime other than a ride? He took Phillip's id, checkbook, etc but it doesn't sound like he ever used them. He probably hitched another ride to get out of the area after he burned the car. Did he kill that person too? Doesn't sounds like it.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by SertumAEnigmA

Exactly. The physical descriptions are pretty on point. But the Frocklages describe him as "mentally off" and threatening. So much so, Tina allegedly said "he'd live to regret" giving the hitchhiker a ride. Yet, the Olsons described him as nervous and later suspicious but were totally comfortable allowing him to stay the night in their home.

I think the Frocklages, and the Olsons descriptions were both correct. A big, dirty, hitchhiking dude wanders into a diner with just two women working there, then I'm sure they were more alert and on guard. Even if he acted normal, his appearance alone would've caused suspicion with the two women just by how he looked. I do think that they embellished, and exaggerated though. The whole "living to regret" line seemed exaggerated

The Olsons account makes sense also. He had just committed murder, and was stranded with a stolen vehicle, I'm sure he was nervous. Which makes me think if he was a serial killer, or a murderer for opportunity. I don't think a complete psychopath would be nervous. They're great at hiding emotions, and "roleplaying" but they said he seemed super nervous, and was acting weird with the wallets. Keep in mind that he didn't kill the other rider who dropped him off at the diner.

I wonder what happened between them two? Did Phillip try to put him out and it turned into a fight? As ruhroh said, did the car breaking out cause them to argue? I'm not quite sure he was a serial killer, but I don't know. He didn't have to kill Phillip, but he did, so I wonder what happened.

[DazzlerSparkler]

"Tina...Tina uh we've got a winner here, there's something wrong with this guy"

QUOTE=jOHnNyD]Also the Olsens didn't describe this guy in terms even close to the way the Frocklages did. The Frocklages described him as almost from another dimension.[/QUOTE]

Technically you can get disheveled in an hour...

Still you can be a psychopath and act totally normal

[ruhroh]

Originally Posted by freakbook

He probably burned it because of DNA left behind in the car. Blood, hair, etc. Not only that, but the guy who let him sleep in the house had seen the vehicle, and helped him work on it, so blowing it up probably seemed more logical to him so that it would buy him more time to get away (in his mind). But I think destroying evidence was probably his number one priority. If Phillip was killed in the car, then that's DNA city.

You bring up a lot of great points such as why not just dump it in the city and leave, but who knows? I also like your point about him having a record, so maybe that's why he didn't want his fingerprints found. However, it's hard to be in a logical state of mind when you just commited murder and you're fleeing, so who knows what was going through his mind.

WELCOME TO THE BOARD BTW

EDIT: Actually it just hit me. He probably blew up the car because he probably knew that the police were searching for Phillip. If he was seen still driving his car while the police were searching for Phillip then he'd get arrested. I guess blowing it up made more sense after all.

Sorry it took so long for me to respond. Hey, thanks. :waves back:
I had forgotten that DNA was already being used back in the late 80s, so that's why I didn't get why the criminal would have been thinking about getting rid of DNA evidence. I think you are right that he wanted to get rid of evidence. Someone else mentioned another possibility-- the killer was from that area and had no desire to run further away because he didn't think he would get caught. Maybe he just caught the nearest bus back to whatever hole he crawled out of. Ha ha. Hard to imagine he felt that confident about it, but since nobody has caught him, I guess he was right to think he'd get away with it.