A Widowed Mother Trying To Raise A Child in the 70's & Not Considered Groundbreaking

[Kristen]

I think part of the reason people don't consider Phyllis to be groundbreaking is that it didn't run as long as TMTMS, and it wasn't as memorable. As has been stated on these boards before, Phyllis just wasn't somebody you could build a show around. She was much better as a side character, IMO. And since TMTMS is a show that's remembered as being groundbreaking, Phyllis is kind of in the shadow of that.

[Brian Damage]

Originally Posted by Kristen

I think part of the reason people don't consider Phyllis to be groundbreaking is that it didn't run as long as TMTMS, and it wasn't as memorable. As has been stated on these boards before, Phyllis just wasn't somebody you could build a show around. She was much better as a side character, IMO. And since TMTMS is a show that's remembered as being groundbreaking, Phyllis is kind of in the shadow of that.

While I have you Kristen, maybe you'll know the answer to this question...

If Phyllis had a reduced role on MTM, then why was she chosen as a spin-off character?

[Kristen]

Originally Posted by Brian Damage

While I have you Kristen, maybe you'll know the answer to this question...

If Phyllis had a reduced role on MTM, then why was she chosen as a spin-off character?

My guess is, they saw the success of Rhoda, and said, "Hey, let's give our other secondary female a sitcom!" Not the brightest idea ever, IMO. But I guess you can't blame them for trying!

And BTW, I'm not knocking Chloris in any way. I think she did a wonderful job on TMTMS. I just don't think the character worked well on her own.

[Brian Damage]

Originally Posted by Kristen

My guess is, they saw the success of Rhoda, and said, "Hey, let's give our other secondary female a sitcom!" Not the brightest idea ever, IMO. But I guess you can't blame them for trying!

And BTW, I'm not knocking Chloris in any way. I think she did a wonderful job on TMTMS. I just don't think the character worked well on her own.

I hear ya...

It makes sense what you're saying. The only other thing I wonder is, if she reduced her workload on MTM to star in movies, then why did she accept the show?

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by Zoneboy

My only guess would be that "Phyllis" wasn't the first series to feature a widowed mom trying to raise a child. Other than that, I have no idea.

Originally Posted by Brian Damage

Which was the first?

Originally Posted by Zoneboy

Julia was before Phyllis but I'm not sure if it was the first.

There are MANY sitcoms predating Phyllis that featuring a widow or widower raising children. Here are a few:

Character/Show/Date

Danny Williams/Make Room for Daddy/1956 (show premiered in 1953, character became a widower in 1956)

Steve Douglas/My Three Sons/1960

Andy Taylor/The Andy Griffith Show/1960

Luke McCoy/The Real McCoys/1962 (show premiered in 1957, character became a widower in 1962)

Lucy Carmichael/The Lucy Show/1962 (also, co-star Vivian Vance played a divorcee with a young son)

Kate Bradley/Petticoat Junction/1963

Julia Baker/Julia/1968

Doris Martin/The Doris Day Show/1968

Lucy Carter/Here's Lucy/1968

Carolyn Muir/The Ghost and Mrs. Muir/1968

Tom Corbett/The Courtship of Eddie's Father/1969

Shirley Partridge/The Partridge Family/1970

By the time Phyllis premiered in 1975, it had been at least 19 years since a widower was first depicted in a sitcom (Danny Thomas as Danny Williams on Make Room for Daddy); at least 12 years since a widow had first been depicted in a sitcom (Lucille Ball as Lucy Carmichael on The Lucy Show); and 12 years since a divorcee had first been depicted on a sitcom (Vivian Vance as Vivian Bagley on The Lucy Show). While some of these shows were more focused on the comedy, shows like Julia, The Andy Griffith Show and The Courtship of Eddie's Father sometimes dealt head-on with the emotional issues of being a one-parent household, so I don't see what is even so ground-breaking about One Day at a Time, other than the Julie and Barbara dealing with the pain of their parent's divorce (Vivian Bagley only made jokes about her ex-husband on The Lucy Show).

[biffbronson]

You can add to that list The Dennis O'Keefe Show (1959-60): widower and son
and
The Governor and J.J. (1969-71): widower and daughter

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by biffbronson

You can add to that list The Dennis O'Keefe Show (1959-60): widower and son
and
The Governor and J.J. (1969-71): widower and daughter

Thanks. And I was thinking also of Uncle Bill on Family Affair (1966-71). Although he wasn't a widower, he was essentially acting the part of a single parent to three orphans. And for that matter, so was Bentley Gregg on Bachelor Father (1957-63). And the series To Rome with Love (1969-71), Nanny and the Professor (1970-71), and Mayberry R.F.D. (1968-1971) were also about widowers raising one or more children. I'm sure there are many more examples.

[PracTz]

Actually, in 1955, the show 'It's Always Jan' [starring Janis Paige]depicted the title character as a young widowed mother of a wartime child trying to make it big in the nightclub world but the one show I saw, it seemed she was so self-absorbed re her career woes and barely considering her daughter's day-to-day existence, the daughter might as well have been a goldfish. Somehow this seems a bit apt for the "Phyliss" forum.

[scotsguy]

I read in a book on the MTMS that Cloris was keen to enjoy the sitcom success that Valerie had with "Rhoda",Alan Burns and James Brookes thought the Phyllis spinoff was a bad idea but the network went ahead.

I actually enjoyed the first season of "Phyllis" but the change of job in season2,an influx of mostly unlikeable characters in season2 and the death of Judith Lowry,meant the end for "Phyllis".

[biffbronson]

I too enjoyed the early Phyllis episodes. And I tend to think that Cloris' beauty is oftentimes underrated. She had an appealing feminine look.

And even though she did not look "glam," at times on her single Lassie season I thought her beauty was breathtaking. Certainly attractive on The Untouchables as well.

[JSP]

Originally Posted by biffbronson

I too enjoyed the early Phyllis episodes. And I tend to think that Cloris' beauty is oftentimes underrated. She had an appealing feminine look.

And even though she did not look "glam," at times on her single Lassie season I thought her beauty was breathtaking. Certainly attractive on The Untouchables as well.

Well she looked good until she was 50 at least.

She looked good on Mary Tyler Moore but to be honest by the time she was on Facts of Life she just looked to old by then to me. But considering she was in her 60s then, that's not such a big deal.

I would imagine she was a VERY attractive woman when she was in her 20s.....just like Audra Lindley was.

[PracTz]

Well, she DID win the Miss Chicago pageant in 1946 [despite not living or being from there] and used that to launch her career. Yes, she was actually somewhat attractive well into middle age but I have to give her credit that she was willing to play the character as a ditzy, flaky person who was more vain than she really was 'entitled' to! The only other performers at that time who weren't afraid to have humor re their appearance at their own expense I can think of were Carol Burnett and the late Bea Arthur .

[OOliver]

Keep in mind, at the same time PHYLLIS was debuting, NBC was also debuting a new sitcom called FAY, starring Lee Grant. Grant played a newly-divorced mother living in a big city as a career woman, and raising a daughter on her own. The show lasted about two months before NBC cancelled it due to low ratings (though Grant won an Emmy nod for her work).

So like PHYLLIS being a single mom in a big city raising a daughter, we had FAY. And she was the first divorced lead female character (ODAAT and RHODA* came after FAY) to have her own show.

*I know RHODA debuted a year before, but RHODA was married until 1976.