Custody/Christmas episode

[jon123]

I had forgotten that Custody was set during Christmastime. Too many holes in the plot. Why would the grandmother be so heartless as to begin the custody fight just before Christmas? Also, it would take weeks or months to get a hearing date-you wouldn't get one right away. Why couldn't Stephanie just tell her grandmother she wanted to stay with Archie (I think she does in part 2) and avoid the stupid court fight. I'm sure a compromise like Stephanie staying with her grandmother once a month or so could be worked out.

Also, if this is the first Christmas after Edith's death, then why isn't Archie spending it with Gloria and Joey (and the meathead, who has not yet run off to the commune). I know Rob and Sally didn't want to appear, but why couldn't Archie and Stephanie go to California (off screen) to spend Christmas together. Archie surely could have gotten a few days off from the bar and there was no restraining order to keep from taking Stephanie with him.

At least we got to see Mrs. Canby. Too bad we won't see more of her unless TVL airs all the episodes.

[DarleneIllyria]

Yeah, the episode did have too many holes in the plot. I did like Mrs. Canby though. She wasn't Edith, but the Mrs. Canby character stood out on her own.

I'm getting a bit off topic now, but I wish they could've gotten Rob Reiner back to do ABP. If they had never divorced Gloria and Michael, I would've loved to see Mike and Gloria's face when they go to the Bunker house and actually see how Archie changed so much since the last time they were together. That would make a good fan fic if anybody wants to try it.

[TV Guy]

I agree that there were too many plot holes in this episode. Why wasn't the grandmother ever even mentioned during the previous two years? I would have liked to see Archie continue to push the issue of why she hadn't bothered with Stephanie in years.

As far as Mrs. Canby goes, I think that character represents a missed opportunity. She was really boring, and was dropped after two seasons. They should have brought someone in who would have more conflict with Archie. But let's face it, bringing in new characters was never a strength of ABP.

[ThomasE]

Originally posted by TV Guy
I agree that there were too many plot holes in this episode. Why wasn't the grandmother ever even mentioned during the previous two years? I would have liked to see Archie continue to push the issue of why she hadn't bothered with Stephanie in years.

As far as Mrs. Canby goes, I think that character represents a missed opportunity. She was really boring, and was dropped after two seasons. They should have brought someone in who would have more conflict with Archie. But let's face it, bringing in new characters was never a strength of ABP.

I say as far as the grandmother goes I will let that pass because to me it was not a big issue not mentioning her early on. I thought it was a good part 1 episode though it seemed like Archie and Stephanie and the Living Room mourned Edith for the last 3 seasons of the show. Did you hear the fake audience?

I'll agree that Canby's character was just average but she was a nice lady. I liked the fact that Archie hired her. There was really no room for her character to flourish. However she overall did her job because she was there to work for him. I wish that she'd stuck around the last season.

[Impressions]

I thought Stephanie was more over-powered than Archie in this episode, she had her decisions to make whether she would stay with Archie or live with her Grandmother. Archie has been living with Stephanie for quite some time and her grandmother never took the time to take care for her, until Archie had custody over her. Her Grandmother may know little about her niece and might not know what's best for Stephanie or what's best for herself and even though she is a relative. It doesn't exactly mean she could disturb her life and snatch her out from Archie without consenting him.

I'm sure if Archie and Stephanie's Grandmother could agree upon taking Stephanie out once in awhile, they might be able to work something out, so they both will have the advatage to spend time with Stephanie seperately. Hopefully the will have Joint Custody over Stephanie in the 2nd episode of the two-parter.

It was interesting to see Mrs. Canby in this epsiode, she might not be involved in the show's plot but she does play a roll involving the family, and a close fill-in for Edith.

[jon123]

I think Rob was focusing on his directing career (maybe writing "This is Spinal Tap") by this time. Still, he made guest appearances the first two years after he left and I don't why he couldn't continue to do so as a favor to his good friend Carroll. I'm sure he was not happy that his character was sent off to a commune.

Mrs. Canby was featured more in some of the second season episodes, but there were just too many regulars on the show for her character to stand out. Also, the audience was probably uncomfortable seeing another woman besides Edith run the Bunker household. It was nice to see Archie hire a black housekeeper and it was too bad there weren't more plotlines with her. She disappeared without explanation before the last season.

As stupid as it was that it went as far as a court battle, it was nice to see Archie evolve from not wanting Stephanie at first to now fighting her grandmother for custody. Archie now loved Stephanie like a daughter.

[ThomasE]

Originally posted by jon123
I think Rob was focusing on his directing career (maybe writing "This is Spinal Tap") by this time. Still, he made guest appearances the first two years after he left and I don't why he couldn't continue to do so as a favor to his good friend Carroll. I'm sure he was not happy that his character was sent off to a commune.

Mrs. Canby was featured more in some of the second season episodes, but there were just too many regulars on the show for her character to stand out. Also, the audience was probably uncomfortable seeing another woman besides Edith run the Bunker household. It was nice to see Archie hire a black housekeeper and it was too bad there weren't more plotlines with her. She disappeared without explanation before the last season.

As stupid as it was that it went as far as a court battle, it was nice to see Archie evolve from not wanting Stephanie at first to now fighting her grandmother for custody. Archie now loved Stephanie like a daughter.

It's funny that you mention that jon123, because what Archie's character developed was an "arc". He did a 180 just like Dustin Hoffman in "Kramer vs. Kramer". The father did not want his son after the mother left and the father grew to love the child just like Archie grew to love Stephanie. I thought that it was great about Archie and Stephanie's relationship. I knew Barbara Meek was featured in the 1981-1982 credits but did not know she was featured in the 80-81 season.

[jon123]

Barbara Meek joined the show on the first "non TV land" episode(not counting "A Small Mafia Favor"). Mrs. Canby was the sister of Archie's neighbor Ed (married to Polly, lived in the old Jefferson and then Stivic house).

[AITF & ABP ROCK!!]

Thomas E, the laughter you heard in this episode was real. Archie Bunker's Place was recorded before a live audience on Soundstage 31 at CBS Television City for all 4 seasons. The fact is that after the death of Edith, the audience reaction in most of the episodes was not what the producers had hoped for, so they ended up using laugh sweeteners.

[TV Guy]

Originally posted by AITF & ABP ROCK!!
Thomas E, the laughter you heard in this episode was real. Archie Bunker's Place was recorded before a live audience on Soundstage 31 at CBS Television City for all 4 seasons.

No, it wasn't. Starting with season 9 of "All in the Family" and continuing throughout ABP, the audience was dropped, and the show was shot in bits and pieces throughout the week. The finished show was then played back (on tape) before a studio audience, and the reactions were recorded for the sound track. This change in taping techniques is described in the book "Archie, Edith, Mike & Gloria" (which is excellent, BTW). It was made at Carroll O'Connor's request, and since Norman Lear, a big proponent of the studio audience, was no longer involved in day-to-day production, the request was granted.

At the end of the season 9 AITF episodes, O'Connor actually says over the closing credits, "'All in the Family' was played back to a studio audience for live responses". In previous years, Rob Reiner said, "'All in the Family' is videotaped before a studio audience."

You can really notice the difference when you listen to how loud the actors deliver their lines during seasons 1-8 (so the audience can hear), versus season 9 and beyond, when they speak in a more conversational tone.

[KayEn78]

I thought the last season of ABP had canned laughter instead of it being taped and then played back for responses. But I guess not, after reading here and that's good too, the show would've gone further downhill in ratings of there had been any canned laughter.
-Kristi

[AITF & ABP ROCK!!]

Oops, I could have sworn that ABP was taped in front of a live audience because I read that on the All In The Family Site message board. Anyway, I know the 9th season no longer used a live audience, but then why wouldn't Carroll O'Connor say so in the closing credits of ABP. I don't know I still think the show was taped in front of a live audience because I thought one of the requirements to tape a sitcom at CBS Television City was to use a live audience.

[KayEn78]

That could've been a requirement of CBS, I'm not sure. I hope it was.
-Kristi

[TV Guy]

Originally posted by AITF & ABP ROCK!!
I don't know I still think the show was taped in front of a live audience because I thought one of the requirements to tape a sitcom at CBS Television City was to use a live audience.

No, it states in the book that it was not taped before a live audience for the last season of AITF as well as the run of ABP. It allowed for a four-day work week as opposed to a five-day with a live audience, and this was one of O'Connor's requirements to continue with the show.

There are shows that tape at CBS Television City without a live audience -- soap operas, for instance. It has facilities to accomodate shows that shoot with an audience, and without.

I definitely recommending picking up "Archie, Edith, Mike, and Gloria" if you are a fan. It covers the entire run, from AITF to ABP, and has a lot of interesting behind-the-scenes trivia.

[KayEn78]

I have that book...it is worth picking up. I forgot about the part you mentioned. That does make sense though. It's still good that they had the "live responses" when an audience viewed the tape.
-Kristi