Do You Think Mike Was Ungrateful to Archie & Edith?

[Brian Damage]

I know this was only a sitcom and the show wouldn't be good without the constant battles between Mike & Archie, but do you think Mike Stivic seemed ungrateful to Archie by constantly fighting with him? I mean after all, he was giving Mike a roof over his head.

[Tweety]

Good question.

I'm not quite sure that "ungrateful" is the right word, but I know what you mean.

I think that Edith might have been correct during that one episode in which everyone (except Archie, who had gone out for the evening) played that board game about relationships. That's the ep in which Mike flipped out after he thought everyone had turned against him. I love that episode.

Anyway, as Edith explained to Mike, it's possible that, as the years went by, Mike became worried that he'd never be able to pay Archie and Edith back for all they had done for Mike and Gloria. That's probably true to a certain extent.

But it's also true that Archie really started the whole thing and never really gave Mike much of a chance to just be himself. I think that Mike tried to be reasonable for as long as he could (and then some), but after a while, he just couldn't take it any more, and started lashing out right back at Archie.

Sure made for some classic comedy. I really had no use for the show once the "kids" moved out, but when they were all living under the same roof, wow, just a great show.

[OH Nuts!]

To a certain degree I do think Mike was ungrateful. To me, anyways, its bad form to argue (well, it seemed more like criticizing to me) with the person whose providing a roof over your head. If Mike found Archie so distateful, he could have moved elsewhere. But then, there goes a lot of good fodder for plots. Never thought Mike was ungrateful to Edith though - just Archie.

And that smugness of Mike just made me want to puke. Loved the board game ep - showed what Mike was really made of.

[Retro4Life]

Look, I love Archie as a character and in many ways he reminds me of my own father, who I loved dearly, but the truth is that Mike tried to be decent and civil with Archie a lot more than Archie did with Mike.

I think Mike did feel grateful to Archie and Edith, and maybe in retrospect there were times he should have kept quiet but the way Archie just relentlessly rode him (not just about being unemployed, or about his politics but about his appearance, the way he acted, and pretty much EVERYTHING), the only way Mike could have retained his sanity was to fight back.

I always maintain that the Archie/Mike dynamic is a very strong father/son relationship, and most of those involve a lot of conflict on the surface and a lot of grudging respect and love underneath.

Yes Mike lived off of Archie but no one put a gun to Archie's head and forced him to allow this. He knew Mike's plans were to attend college and that he didn't have a job. Now, granted Mike could have worked a bit more than he did (most people who attend college also work, obviously) but as the show progressed Mike did help Archie more around the house.

Oddly enough, I always thought Mike was meaner to Archie once he got his own place. Maybe trying to turn the tables or something but I didn't like the way he would use Joey as a weapon to hurt Archie with. Then again, neither of them were blameless and in the end, it was obvious they loved each other.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by OH Nuts!

To a certain degree I do think Mike was ungrateful. To me, anyways, its bad form to argue (well, it seemed more like criticizing to me) with the person whose providing a roof over your head. If Mike found Archie so distateful, he could have moved elsewhere. But then, there goes a lot of good fodder for plots. Never thought Mike was ungrateful to Edith though - just Archie.

And that smugness of Mike just made me want to puke. Loved the board game ep - showed what Mike was really made of.

lol, absolutely, that board game ep is such a classic.

Another time Archie "got" Mike is when Archie brings home something from the office, and Mike gets on him for stealing. Then, Mike refuses to accept a "collect call" from a friend of his, but his rejection is really a code to his friend, which he's able to pass on to his friend (via the operator) without paying for the call. Archie nailed him on that one... but in fairness to Mike, he immediately recognized his hypocrisy on the issue.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by Retro4Life

Look, I love Archie as a character and in many ways he reminds me of my own father, who I loved dearly, but the truth is that Mike tried to be decent and civil with Archie a lot more than Archie did with Mike.

I think Mike did feel grateful to Archie and Edith, and maybe in retrospect there were times he should have kept quiet but the way Archie just relentlessly rode him (not just about being unemployed, or about his politics but about his appearance, the way he acted, and pretty much EVERYTHING), the only way Mike could have retained his sanity was to fight back.

I always maintain that the Archie/Mike dynamic is a very strong father/son relationship, and most of those involve a lot of conflict on the surface and a lot of grudging respect and love underneath.

Yes Mike lived off of Archie but no one put a gun to Archie's head and forced him to allow this. He knew Mike's plans were to attend college and that he didn't have a job. Now, granted Mike could have worked a bit more than he did (most people who attend college also work, obviously) but as the show progressed Mike did help Archie more around the house.

Oddly enough, I always thought Mike was meaner to Archie once he got his own place. Maybe trying to turn the tables or something but I didn't like the way he would use Joey as a weapon to hurt Archie with. Then again, neither of them were blameless and in the end, it was obvious they loved each other.

I actually stopped watching the show soon after M&G moved out of the house...to me, it's not the same show having them live next door as it was when they were under the same roof.

I'm sure that once M&G were out of the house, Mike probably felt more free to tell Archie what he REALLY thought and to act more aggressively against Archie. I'm sure that while they were under the same roof, as much as they argued and fought, Mike probably big his tongue more than a few times, if for no other reason than for Gloria's sake.

But that's just speculation on my part, as I said, I don't remember much about the show once the "kids" moved out.

[AB]

I think Mike should have been more grateful to Archie & should have offered to help out more. But of course the show wouldn't have been so successful & funny if it had played out that way.

[Cobain]

Even though Mike didn't agree with Archie -- under the circumstances -- he should have been more respectful to Archie. While Archie called Mike names and always had an issue with him, it was because of how Mike carried himself and his views that led to their battles.

It was also annoying that no matter what, Mike always sided against Archie. From the washer episode with the laundry guy, to Archie getting mugged, "Everyone tell the Truth", and so many other instances, Mike took pride in pissing Archie off.

Mike should have kept his big mouth shut because it was Archie that put a roof over his head and provided meals for him.

The biggest problem with Mike was this: He let his political views get in the way of everything. Even the simplest debate between he and Archie turned political because of him. Hell, this guy left his wife and kids because of Ronald Regan. What a joke of a father Mike was.

As bad as Archie was he was still 10 times the husband and father that Mike was.

[Vince53]

Folks, I can't stand Michael. Archie was a loud-mouthed bigot, but he pulled his own weight--and Michael's weight as well.

[storrs19]

Archie was just being Archie. My grandfather was Archie to a tee. They could have been twins. Some of the things Archie complains about bother me also. Amazing how little has changed in 40 years isn't it? Same idiots running the country just different faces.

I also agree with the fact that Mike using Joey as a weapon against Archie was rotten. You could tell that Joey meant the world to Archie and he knew that would be his only grandchild after "Vasectomy Vic", ha ha!

I still enjoyed the series after M&G moved out and into Archie Bunker's Place as well. The episodes I didn't care for much were the ones that focused mostly on M&G though without interaction from Archie and Edith.

[Hughsgirl]

My response will not exactly be partial because I have always hated Mike. I can't think of one decent thing about him so I will say that IMO, I have to say that I don't think he really appreciated what Archie did for him. Just like most lazy mootches, both Mike and Gloria were nothing but self entitled idiots. He just happened to be a tad more "educated" then her. Funny, Mike was book smart but when it came to real life the guy was as dumb as a box of rocks. I'm sorry, but I never understood why the bum couldn't go to school and work! That always rubbed me the wrong way because there were many even back then that held a full time job, went to school and raised a family.....it's called real life!

[biffbronson]

I think the emotional goodbye between Mike and Archie said a lot -- to me it reveals they never really hated each other after all, they just got on each others' nerves and argued a lot. And while it seems throughout the series that Mike is ungrateful, that episode sort of changed my perception. If he had nothing but contempt for Archie and appreciated nothing, he would have cut out without expressing any feeling.

I think most if not all of us are in agreement that Mike was extreme in many ways, but without him the show just would not have worked. I thought Archie was very funny in his response to Mike's fellowship, for example. The whole thing about Mike being a student perpetually was a basis for the show, and I think it was interesting when he would put down Gloria, without realizing what he'd done, just because of knowing things through his higher education. And it went on and on: Gloria seemed to follow him blindly, or at least rarely considered moving from his positions on issues.

[Frump]

Originally Posted by Brian Damage

I know this was only a sitcom and the show wouldn't be good without the constant battles between Mike & Archie, but do you think Mike Stivic seemed ungrateful to Archie by constantly fighting with him? I mean after all, he was giving Mike a roof over his head.

Just b/c someone is giving you a roof over your head doesn't mean you can'y voice your opinion, after all he was doing the same for Gloria *who was plenty old enough to be out on her own* and she fought with and even HIT her father*

[Vince53]

I don't hate Michael, and after watching several episodes, I dislike him a lot less. But Mike was just a selfish moocher, with occasional good points.