Su-Ya Kim

[mattc]

Originally Posted by Mastermind

As do law enforcement officers.



I don't know. It's not like he came from Japan and went back to Japan. How many people would go back to south Korea? There was a very good reason they left south korea. Sadness aside, I can't imagine it's the wisest thing financially to do? he still has a business that I assume was still profiable. It would be way cheaper to bring the family here than for him to go there. Not to mention the kids would have to be taken out of American culture to a whole new culture and school systems.

South Korea is a very hard country for law enforcement to find someone. i don't even know if they have an FBI office.(i would assume so due to the DMZ and CIAs prescence.)

I really disagree with this line of reasoning. I get a sense that you are getting South Korea mixed up with North Korea. South Korea is a thriving democracy and one of the world's richest countries, with a strong middle class economy. You are making it sound like he chose the Gaza strip over America. I think he went back to S. Korea because that's where all his family is, and he probably couldn't/didn't want to run the stores without the help of his wife. I really think your logic here is way off (I hope you don't take offense, just saying).

Also, I got the impression, based on the recreations, that Ms. Kim did not speak English very well..THAT would be vital, as it could impact the affair theory. Was a woman who barely spoke English having an affair with the white guy in the running suit (unless he spoke Korean???)

Who knows, the point is, the image given of S. Korea is not accurate. Forgive me if I misunderstood.

[Mastermind]

I really disagree with this line of reasoning. I get a sense that you are getting South Korea mixed up with North Korea. South Korea is a thriving democracy and one of the world's richest countries, with a strong middle class economy

.

1. It couldn't have been that thriving back then, considering they left the country in the fist place.

2. Your also forgeting the point about moving his children as well.

3. This is a moot argumentative point that were discussing which neither proves nor disproves his guilt. There are much more important topics to argue about.

4. Yes, I know the difference between North and South Korea. If Mr. Kim went back to North Korea, this case would have a whole different angle to it.

[Phanekim]

I think the thing that mattc doesn't agree with is the inference that he might be involved in his wife's murder.

we know that he almost certianly has an alibi. He was at store.

THus, if he is involved it has to be some sort of hit. If someone was to do a hit, why would they bother disposing of body....and stabbing someone 9 times.

For some reason, the killer was angry at suya kim. he mighta had a thing against asian people. he might have had an affair with her. The key to solving this case is where was she going and did anyone see her? what has she been telling her friends and such.

[everybodylovesrs]

Originally Posted by Phanekim

I think the thing that mattc doesn't agree with is the inference that he might be involved in his wife's murder.

we know that he almost certianly has an alibi. He was at store.

THus, if he is involved it has to be some sort of hit. If someone was to do a hit, why would they bother disposing of body....and stabbing someone 9 times.

For some reason, the killer was angry at suya kim. he mighta had a thing against asian people. he might have had an affair with her. The key to solving this case is where was she going and did anyone see her? what has she been telling her friends and such.

That's what they all say, they were at work etc. Have you ever seen Forensic Files or numerous other shows tho? How much did they verify that he was at work and was not away from work at any time?

[Mastermind]

THus, if he is involved it has to be some sort of hit. If someone was to do a hit, why would they bother disposing of body....and stabbing someone 9 times.

1.One of the things that "Iceman" Kulkinski(sp?) proved was that hitman will kill targets anyway the client wants them to kill them. If they want them to suffer he'll make them suffer. If he wants it done brutally, he'll do it brutally.

2. It's possible that the hitman killed her like that to avoid it being considered a hit. If he kills the woman several times he knows that the killing will be considered a crime of passion or a rape.

3. It may not necessarily be that he disposed of the body as much as he took the body away from the crime scene and most likely cleaned up that crime scene as well as himself.

[Phanekim]

Originally Posted by everybodylovesrs

That's what they all say, they were at work etc. Have you ever seen Forensic Files or numerous other shows tho? How much did they verify that he was at work and was not away from work at any time?

I am assuming they did. Although its an assumption, I am almost 100 percent sure they verified it in the initial stages. What kind of incompetent detective wouldn't?

The key thing in a woman's disappearance is to talk to the woman's friends. women confide in their friends more then men.

I watch all the shows. This why we can postulate all these wierd theories but in all the shows everyone narrows in on a central theory or theories and eliminate the very weak ones early.

[Phanekim]

Originally Posted by Mastermind

1.One of the things that "Iceman" Kulkinski(sp?) proved was that hitman will kill targets anyway the client wants them to kill them. If they want them to suffer he'll make them suffer. If he wants it done brutally, he'll do it brutally.

Fortunately, most hits are not like that.

2. It's possible that the hitman killed her like that to avoid it being considered a hit. If he kills the woman several times he knows that the killing will be considered a crime of passion or a rape.

and risk a messier crime? no way. that does not outweigh the risk of being caught. thats just illogical and hitmen aren't illogical killers.

3. It may not necessarily be that he disposed of the body as much as he took the body away from the crime scene and most likely cleaned up that crime scene as well as himself.

valid. i agree. but why would a hitman need to do that. you would have to be an incredibly stupid hitman to hit someone in a place where it would lead to you. thus why take it from the crime scene. of course, their maybe evidence there that might lead to you that would lead to you having to clean up, but why leave more incriminating evidence trying to take the body away from crime scene.

again, sometimes people arent narrowing down on the most likely scenarios. there are only a few likely scenarios here.

the real reason why this case hasn't been solved is that there has been very little pressure on the police department.

[mattc]

Originally Posted by Mastermind

.

1. It couldn't have been that thriving back then, considering they left the country in the fist place.

2. Your also forgeting the point about moving his children as well.

3. This is a moot argumentative point that were discussing which neither proves nor disproves his guilt. There are much more important topics to argue about.

4. Yes, I know the difference between North and South Korea. If Mr. Kim went back to North Korea, this case would have a whole different angle to it.

I understand your points, and I figured you knew the difference between N and S Korea. But your original post implied that it was strange that he would want to go back to S Korea, as though it was not a place anyone would return if they could live in the US. Remember, his wife was murdered here, and no one was caught. I'm not saying that a husband couldn't kill his wife, but I am sure that the husband was the first person questioned, interrogated by the police (they always focus on the spouse first).

I also take issue with the notion that "there are much more important topics to argue about." This is a forum for Unsolved Mystery cases, and I assumed that the death of a woman that remains unsolved would be something worth discussing. Seriously, I'm not trying to argue at all, I just read your initial post and felt that you misunderstood S. Korea. Even back in the 1980's (which is when I traveled there), it was a very well developed country, and it is perfectly understandable why Mr. Kim would want to go back home, given what happened to him in the US. That's what makes this case so tragic.

[Mastermind]

I also take issue with the notion that "there are much more important topics to argue about." This is a forum for Unsolved Mystery cases, and I assumed that the death of a woman that remains unsolved would be something worth discussing. Seriously, I'm not trying to argue at all, I just read your initial post and felt that you misunderstood S. Korea. Even back in the 1980's (which is when I traveled there), it was a very well developed country, and it is perfectly understandable why Mr. Kim would want to go back home, given what happened to him in the US. That's what makes this case so tragic.

I meant much more important topics to discuss about this case and possible solutions.

Mr Kim's going back to S. Korea neither proves or disprove his guilt.

A much more important topic regarding this case IMHO, is whether this killer was a jogger or whether he just stripped down to clean up the crime.I believe the latter.

[Mastermind]

Quote:

2. It's possible that the hitman killed her like that to avoid it being considered a hit. If he kills the woman several times he knows that the killing will be considered a crime of passion or a rape.




and risk a messier crime? no way. that does not outweigh the risk of being caught. thats just illogical and hitmen aren't illogical killers.

He's already using a knife. What difference does it make whether you stab her 5 times or 9 times?

Now, A good point that you made me realize is that she was just stabbed, her throat was not cut, which is the usual coup de grace.

She was also not sexual molested (if I understand correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
1.One of the things that "Iceman" Kulkinski(sp?) proved was that hitman will kill targets anyway the client wants them to kill them. If they want them to suffer he'll make them suffer. If he wants it done brutally, he'll do it brutally.


Fortunately, most hits are not like that.

Depends on the reason for the hit. we tend to forget that some people who just want to kill someone out of vengeace hire proxies all the time.

again, sometimes people arent narrowing down on the most likely scenarios. there are only a few likely scenarios here.

1. Serial killer who had killed non-Asian women and this was his first Asian. Or a serial killer who committed his crimes in another state and this is his first (or only) kill in New York state

2. A mentally unstable customer of their store who took the Kims actions way overboard and developed an imaginary hatred for them. This murder was his "vengeance" on them.

3. A racist who saw the Kims developing store as an example of minorities taking over America and he killed Ms. Kim as an act of "patriotism" as well as his own insecurities.

4. A "mistake murder" (Not to sound like a bigot, but quite a few caucasian men still have the "all you people look the same" concept ingained in them.)

5. A debt killing due to a possible involvment with Asian organized crime.
Perhaps in this case they decided to hire a non-Asian to do the dead. Perhaps Mr. Kim had gambling debts or borrowed money to keep the store running.

6. Botched rape attempt by a serial rapist who to this point had not killed a victim.

7. Attempted ransom kidnapping, robberyor mugging that went wrong.

[lizziebeth]

Originally Posted by Mastermind

As do law enforcement officers.



I don't know. It's not like he came from Japan and went back to Japan. How many people would go back to south Korea? There was a very good reason they left south korea. Sadness aside, I can't imagine it's the wisest thing financially to do? he still has a business that I assume was still profiable. It would be way cheaper to bring the family here than for him to go there. Not to mention the kids would have to be taken out of American culture to a whole new culture and school systems.

South Korea is a very hard country for law enforcement to find someone. i don't even know if they have an FBI office.(i would assume so due to the DMZ and CIAs prescence.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_korea

There are plenty of reasons why one would relocate back to S.Korea. It honestly sounds like you are confusing it with its neighbour to the north.

[Mastermind]

Originally Posted by lizziebeth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_korea

There are plenty of reasons why one would relocate back to S.Korea. It honestly sounds like you are confusing it with its neighbour to the north.

1. The point is moot. It neither proves nor disproves Mr. Kim's guilt. What difference does it make if Korea is a utopian dynasty or a 3rd world hell hole.
a. If Mr. Kim is trying to run away from murdering his wife, he's of course going to go to the place where he's most familliar with and can blend and disappear. South Korea makes perfect sense.
b. If he's completely broken up and can't stand living in the US without his wife, it would make little sense for him to go to United Kingdom, France or Japan. He might as well go back to where he came from

2. If Mr. Kim came from North Korea, he would in essence be a defector. Lee Harvey Oswald is the only person I know to defect back to his original country (and that was the US in his case!!). Even if Mr. Kim could do that, he would probably be executed the minute he lands in Pyongyang as a spy or a traitor! If Mr. Kim is willing to risk death and abject poverty in N. Korea, he really must have murdered his wife.

[Phanekim]

mastermind,

the question i have for you is. even all you theories on seriall killer, hit or whatever. The question is, surely she was in public where people could see her. nobody saw anything? if i am going to shop, and i say i'm going to shop, most likely my family members will know where i am going.

like i mentioned before, she knew her killer. this si why no one saw her anywhere. no store cameras? no nothing? comon...

[Mastermind]

mastermind,

the question i have for you is. even all you theories on seriall killer, hit or whatever. The question is, surely she was in public where people could see her. nobody saw anything? if i am going to shop, and i say i'm going to shop, most likely my family members will know where i am going.

like i mentioned before, she knew her killer. this si why no one saw her anywhere. no store cameras? no nothing? comon...

You bring up some excellent points..

1. The problem I have with her knowing her killer is that I would think that they would be able to find him by now. How many caucasian men could she have known well enough to be that friendly with. How many close caucasian friends could she possibly have being an Asian Immigrant in a mostly Asian community? Maybe three or four at best? I guess there could be several professional people she could know.. doctors, lawyers, moonlighting police officer, delivery man, employee of the shop, customers, landlords.etc. But how friendly would she be with such people? I also imagine she still had trouble with the english language which would make interacting with American people difficult.

2. If the police are right and our suspect is a cab or livery driver, he has a very good method of picking her up with no fuss and delivering her to the murder scene with no fuss. He could simply have picked her up as a fare, make an excuse to take her somewhere and then discretely drag her or force her in.

3. Other than an affair, I can't think of a reason that she would go to the killers house unless forced to. I could definitely see her going to the killers office or workplace, but would the killer be so bold as to kill her there?

I wonder if Mrs. Kim went to college, or took coarses somewhere? Maybe she became romantically involved there. If she had an affair that would explain why here husband and family would not know of him and why he wouldn't be brought up as a person of interest.

4. It should be pointed out that it is possible that the suspect that was seen by the security guard is in fact Asian or half-Asian. The security guard would only know of the stereotypical qualities of Asian people, not knowing that some of them don't have slanted eyes and some don;t have dark hair.

[conservativejoe]

ok lets go over some of the known details of this case.

1. She left to go shopping while her husband was working at the store.
A. Her car was found at her residence.
-This means she was either abducted from home or hitched a ride on a taxi/bus.
-If she did catch a cab that would fit the unsolved mystery angle of the killer being a cab driver.

2. Her body was dumped in a trash bin at a abandoned building.
A. The killer probably chose this location because of it being abandoned.
B. In NYC there is not too many other places more convienant to dispose of the body than a dumpster. (not too many areas to bury or dispose of a body by other means.)

This leads me to this question. Why would a killer choose to dump a body at a location with a substantial chance of being seen rather than driving out of town to get rid of it?

my answer is he had to get the car back somewhere and it was his only means of body disposal.

I also believe that the taiwan lady's car was used in the murder. I think that the killer abducted her in a taxi and brought her to another location where he killed her. He then brought the cab back to his work. He had access to the taiwan womans car by some means. He must have prepared her body real well and placed her in the trunk of the car and disposed of all the evidence he could have before returning it. The blood on his shirt must have came from taking her out of the trunk and making contact with the body.