A friend of mine recently had his tape trading only website shutdown by the MPAA. It doesn't make sense that they would attack him specifically because there are lots of other sites that boldly charge fees for tapes, let alone sites such as this one.

Any comments on this from some long-time traders?

What was your friend trading exactly? The MPAA is the Motion Picture Association of America so I can only assume he was trading first run or regular movies.

Whenever somebody asks me about the legality of tape trading I refer to them to the http://www.tvofyourlife.com website, in their FAQ section they list:

Is Videotape Trading Legal ?

Non-profit tape collecting for one's own home-use purposes is legal, and there is nothing that says non-profit tape trading is illegal. To the best of anyone's knowledge, there has never been a supreme court decision concerning non-profit tape trading, and there are no specific laws against it. The FBI, however, does have the power to make examples to discourage tape duplication and distribution.

In a phone interview (conducted 10/31/94) with officer David Grossman, Copyright Squad of the Chicago FBI states "copying videotapes is a violation only if commercial gain is made. We are only involved with major copyright infringement cases, people manufacturing and selling thousands of tapes. We don't get involved in the mom-and-pop, one or two tapes being copied. Video trading for non-profit is not a concern of ours, it's not major enough for us to get involved." He also stated that there was something that said that only seven or less copies could be made in a period of 180 days, but he wasn't sure if that applied to tape trading or not. Essentiailly, he states that the FBI is not concerned with non-profit tape trading but are when thousands of copies are being made and sold. But this wouldn't necessarily prevent them from making examples to discourage others.

-----------

And for the record this is just a tape trading message board and there are many others out there, if there was ever a problem and somebody requested that it be removed - I would do so immediately.

Originally posted by TJ
What was your friend trading exactly? The MPAA is the Motion Picture Association of America so I can only assume he was trading first run or regular movies.

TJ,

My friend had a very small website, much like we see stem from this board. He dealt with primarily really old shows/movies. PLUS he stated directly on his website that he wouldn't sell. I doubt seriously if he fell into the category of those that ought to be attacked. Perhaps they chose him randomly (?).

Thanks for your answer. I appreciate it.

Jen

:wave:

:(

Originally posted by bearcat
I forgot to add something ,i am through with trading ,so don't ask if would and want trade the answer is NO:(

If you hadn't had a chance to trade with bearcat, than you really missed out. He has great old stuff, great quality, and best of all he's a most pleasant person to deal with. We're the losers in this situation.

:crybaby:

Originally posted by bearcat
Thanks Jen for bringing the comments, and thanks also TJ for your comments,i'am the one how as been attack by the mpaa ,it seem,and they claimed and my website provider agrees also with the conclusion of the mpaa that trading is not legit and if you look over the mpaa website it is stated that trading is not legit ,i din't know that ,i plead my case to the mpaa i'am still waiting for their reply ,and you know the most funny part is i never traded movies! only recording shows for others.


i'am completely stun and i must admit affraid of the consequences if any.

take care
:(

It's because you're Canadian. :joke: Seriously, it's just a guess, I don't know one way or the other but assuming the possibility that you were involved in trades across borders, that may have something to do with it.

Originally posted by vashti1999
It's because you're Canadian. :joke: Seriously, it's just a guess, I don't know one way or the other but assuming the possibility that you were involved in trades across borders, that may have something to do with it.

That's what I was thinking too. YOu weren't selling movies; only TV shows.

Originally posted by PZelda: VICKI!!
That's what I was thinking too. YOu weren't selling movies; only TV shows.

He only traded, by the way, stating so directly on his site.

Closing down a website and actually getting fined or charges pressed against you are 2 completely different things.

Maybe they were trying to discourage it, but as far as legality and actually getting into trouble, I highly doubt that any the matter would be pressed any further.

Originally posted by Agent 13
He only traded, by the way, stating so directly on his site.

Gotcha. I never got to visit that site. I just think that if you were only trading TV shows and not making a profit off of it, you should be OK. :-/

What company hosted your website?

Since you are Canadian how is it that the MPAA has any jurisdiction over a Canadian website provider? The most the MPAA can do is send letters letting the provider know what's going on. The MPAA cannot enforce laws, they simply inform others what they see. And the MPAA is an American organization, meaning they don't have the same pull with other nations that they do in America. Such is the case in the Philippians where piracy is all over the place. The MPAA supplies local authorities with money to enforce the laws but it cannot make the police do that if they don't want to. And they cannot shut down any website hosted any where including the USA unless a court judge orders it first and that would only be for a USA website and not another countries. They can block and take over websites at will but American laws do not mean anything to other countries. A Canadian does not have to follow American laws in Canada! But a Canadian does have to follow the American laws in America...

This just doesn't make sense to me. I've never heard of any trader that got busted for simply trading discs or tapes. There is too much work involved for that to happen. I've known people that sold discs and now are in fear of going to jail over it as the case has not gone to trial yet. If the MPAA was really interested in busting websites like yours I can think of a 100 of them that list not only TV Shows but also movies and movies that are still in theaters and sell like crazy. I've got buds that sell to there hearts content and never are messed with! Why they would go after yours alone is strange? I'd guess it was narked on by someone you dealt with, or there is some Canadian laws that are strict about this stuff, or the web provider got a letter about your site from the MPAA and they didn't want to deal with that so they shut you down which does happen all the time. Websites are shut down when they are notified by organizations like the MPAA. But if your being prosecuted (threatened with jail or fine) for trading VIDEO TAPES and not selling anything you would be the first person I've ever heard of that this has happened to and that just doesn't make sense.

My suggestion, start up another page on a free provider like Geocities and you'll never get screwed with again, never stop trading!!!

Originally posted by moviedude25
What company hosted your website?

His site was a Geocities site (Canada yahoo).

Sorry should have said:

My suggestion, start up another page on a free provider like Geocities (USA VERSION) and you'll never get screwed with again, never stop trading!!!

i tend to agree with movie dude that a bad trader may be to blame for your website getting taken down but am i correct in saying that you have never posted an experience with a bad trader on this board if thats the case i don't like what is happening here because i really enjoy being able to view old shows that i thought i wouldn't get to see again and if they are going to pick people at random and shut down their sites its going to be just like the lawsuit against kazaa

:( i hope you change your mind and keep trading the more good traders we can get the better!!!

take care :wave:

:wave:

Originally posted by vashti1999
It's because you're Canadian. :joke: Seriously, it's just a guess, I don't know one way or the other but assuming the possibility that you were involved in trades across borders, that may have something to do with it.

Since Terry Hoknes (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=terry+hoknes+group:alt.video.tape-trading.*+group:alt.video.tape-trading.*&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=alt.video.tape-trading.*&scoring=d&selm=7e0506af.0311121846.7388dc4b%40posting.google.com&rnum=1) (Canadian) had his collection seized by the police recently, I would be cautious if I was a Canadian trader right now.

By the way, Bearcat had my trading link on his site, yet I did not lose my site, nor was I threatened by the MPAA.

:confused:

oh no! not terry too he had a huge collection and a lot on his list were complete series i was hoping to get rhoda from him later on down the track
mabye we shouldn't bother running web sites and just post our have/want lists as email attachments that way its harder for them to put a stop to it ,and i thought this was all supposed to be LEGAL
:(

jasoncole = it is but Canada passed a new law saying no copies whether buying or trading quite possible just having them in the house - all be seized with a warrant shown, far as i know nothing else is done to the victim, all copies, equipment & computer taken

outside of canada they can do nothing but report to others and the others will do as the wish, 'others' at least in the States won't do anything unless sales are mass produced meaning at least , 2000.00 or copying offically released items for sales at any price, trading copies is cool no matter what


Any need more information feel free to ask.

This is good to hear! Thanks! :)

Originally posted by secret_defender
jasoncole = it is but Canada passed a new law saying no copies whether buying or trading quite possible just having them in the house - all be seized with a warrant shown, far as i know nothing else is done to the victim, all copies, equipment & computer taken outside of canada they can do nothing but report to others and the others will do as the wish, 'others' at least in the States won't do anything unless sales are mass produced meaning at least , 2000.00 or copying offically released items for sales at any price, trading copies is cool no matter what


Any need more information feel free to ask.

Secret Defender,

Thank you sooooooooo much for making some of this stuff more clear. Having a page with specifics regarding laws would be most appreciated.

:wave:

Excuse me some of my information above is wrong. Selling in Canada no matter what the price they'll seize but can't do nothing in trading as said by a Canadian Attorney. Be reported and perphaps spoken to to scare one but that's as far as it will go as trading there. And in other email from someone i know they said that lasw was been around for about 4 years


I don't know about other countries but in the US this is a good place to start for information: www.findlaw.com & not sure of website address but in a serach engine type tape trading faq and you'll find what FBI said about it that is who controls the copyright here.

For the record but can't provide proof, actual law enforcements here did buy from me at my old {most not all} higher prices where i didn't have beat any price promise.

Originally posted by secret_defender
jasoncole = it is but Canada passed a new law saying no copies whether buying or trading quite possible just having them in the house - all be seized with a warrant shown, far as i know nothing else is done to the victim, all copies, equipment & computer taken

outside of canada they can do nothing but report to others and the others will do as the wish, 'others' at least in the States won't do anything unless sales are mass produced meaning at least , 2000.00 or copying offically released items for sales at any price, trading copies is cool no matter what


Any need more information feel free to ask.

This info about the states is not entirely true..I had a friend that never sold a tape in his life but traded for many years.

His house was raided, his entire collection confiscated, all of his video equipment was confiscated as well and he was arrested and charged a pretty hefty fine. He lost his house due to all the legal fees and fines that he had to pay and his wife divorced him

He was so depressed after everything that happened that he eventually took his own life.

He had a disclaimer on his website..just like I see on alot of other sites and he was told that in a court of law..those disclaimers don't mean jack. They are totally worthless and most law enforcement officials find them laughable..because in the long run..the material on the tapes being traded or sold is copyrighted material.

Also..the only way that you can sell a tape..is for the actual retail cost of the tape itself if it were a blank tape. When selling it in this manner..you cannot list what it on the tape..you can only say that the tape has something pre recorded on it or that the tape is not blank. As soon as you mention what is on the tape..they can, if they want to, nail your ass to the wall for copyright infringement

I did some research after what happened with Steve and found out that you basically cannot make a profit in anyway from the sales or trades of these tapes..as soon as you do..they can nail you for copyright infringement if that is what they want to do.

Also..claiming that all the monies obtained through the sale or trade go back into the maintaining of the site, equipment, cost of electricity in using the equipment is useless. It is still seen as you making a profit regardless of how you word it.

I can tell you more of what I learned through Steve's tragic experience..but right now I am going to stop because I just got depressed thinking about my old friend..

RIP Steve.. you are missed buddy
:(

Originally posted by TJHooker
This info about the states is not entirely true..I had a friend that never sold a tape in his life but traded for many years.
His house was raided, his entire collection confiscated, all of his video equipment was confiscated as well and he was arrested and charged a pretty hefty fine. :(

This is awful news. May I ask, when did this transpire?

Perhaps there was more to that situation than meets the eye. :(
Trading is either legal or it isn't, unless some states are stricter on these issues than others.

Not for nothing, but that story of Steve seems quite simplified- that trading tapes led to his death.

Like there isn't a dozen other factors that had something to do with that?

Plus- if you never made a dime, how can you be fined.
Isn't it just like loaning a tape - and you loaning me yours?

There is no way that person lost all his money from simply "trading" tapes.
Maybe adding a ridiculously stupid lawyer would add something- but still, strictly trading?

Doubt it.

I agree! It had to be more than just tape trading. I would hope any ways! ok I dont have the balls to go any further into that!:wave:

I'd like more info on that story. There has to be more to it as to why the fine and raid. City, State, Court Dates and show us here the actual law that says trading illegal.

sounds more now like an urband legend, chain of events? led to a divorce? then suicide? you're gonna kill yourself over tapes? you lose a house ovr tapes? the fines can be paid via installments, like a creditor, so that's nothing new...and it sounds fishy now.. LOL please... some illegal activity happened, but to cause a divorce, etc... yeah, if it's true there should be court records, public records of this somewhere...so for now, let's assume there was more illegal acitivity to it then just tape swapping etc...

Originally posted by TJHooker
This info about the states is not entirely true..I had a friend that never sold a tape in his life but traded for many years.

His house was raided, his entire collection confiscated, all of his video equipment was confiscated as well and he was arrested and charged a pretty hefty fine. He lost his house due to all the legal fees and fines that he had to pay and his wife divorced him

He was so depressed after everything that happened that he eventually took his own life.

He had a disclaimer on his website..just like I see on alot of other sites and he was told that in a court of law..those disclaimers don't mean jack. They are totally worthless and most law enforcement officials find them laughable..because in the long run..the material on the tapes being traded or sold is copyrighted material.

Also..the only way that you can sell a tape..is for the actual retail cost of the tape itself if it were a blank tape. When selling it in this manner..you cannot list what it on the tape..you can only say that the tape has something pre recorded on it or that the tape is not blank. As soon as you mention what is on the tape..they can, if they want to, nail your ass to the wall for copyright infringement

I did some research after what happened with Steve and found out that you basically cannot make a profit in anyway from the sales or trades of these tapes..as soon as you do..they can nail you for copyright infringement if that is what they want to do.

Also..claiming that all the monies obtained through the sale or trade go back into the maintaining of the site, equipment, cost of electricity in using the equipment is useless. It is still seen as you making a profit regardless of how you word it.

I can tell you more of what I learned through Steve's tragic experience..but right now I am going to stop because I just got depressed thinking about my old friend..

RIP Steve.. you are missed buddy
:(



R.I.P STEVE :crying:

Originally posted by dlemond
Not for nothing, but that story of Steve seems quite simplified- that trading tapes led to his death.

Like there isn't a dozen other factors that had something to do with that?

Plus- if you never made a dime, how can you be fined.
Isn't it just like loaning a tape - and you loaning me yours?

There is no way that person lost all his money from simply "trading" tapes.
Maybe adding a ridiculously stupid lawyer would add something- but still, strictly trading?

Doubt it.

I never said that trading tapes led to his death..if that was what people got from the story then I apologize. It was all the pressure of everything that happened after the raid that eventually caused him to take his life. He literaly lost everything that meant something to him. I guess when his wife walked out..that was it for him

Steve told me that he only traded and he was a stand up guy.. so I took him on his word that he only traded and did not sell. Maybe he did and never told anyone..but as far as I know I he did not sell them.

I guess it really doesn't matter at this point anymore whether he did or didn't..he is not around anymore to answer for himself.

I am not a lawyer..nor did I ever claim to be.. so I have no idea as to the legalities surrounding this hobby. All I know is what happened to someone that to my knowledge only traded.

Maybe he got tagged because he used to do alot of trading with people overseas..He used to send and receive tapes from all over the world on a daily basis.

This whole hobby appears to be in a very grey market area concerning it's legalities. There are always disclaimers at the end of shows in the credits stating that the material is copyrighted and is not to be duplicated..but yet the sale of VCR's and DVD recorders is allowed..

I understand that under some law staute you are allowed to record a show for personal use..do they consider that personal use over when you loan that tape out to somone..is this what they consider illegal distribution as they state in their disclaimers???

I wish that the law was more defined in this whole area..but I guess if Hollywood has their way with the advent of this digital technology..we won't be able to record anything and it will all be a moot point