My attempt at creating a HUGE thread with tons and tons of pointless debate, but I digress.... (j/k;))

Reading the "Ricky does a the moonwalk" thread, I noticed alot of you despise Gary. Why?

Do you blame Gary for Lucy's career "dwindling"?

Think about this, it is the critics and certain biographers (I won't name them, lol) who refuse to give any attention to "The Lucy Show" and "Here's Lucy" though they both were Top 10 hits and major force to be reckoned with during their time on the air. It's the critics who refuse to look at Lucy's work on those shows simply writing them off as "Those shows weren't as funny as ILL, therefore we can disregard them.” It was the critics who berated “Life With Lucy” because it wasn’t ILL, and some of you who have viewed the show have said “It wasn’t THAT bad”. Personally, I can think of quite a few VERY popular 80'shows in which their entire run (usually 5 or 6 years) doesn’t even hold a candle to 8 or 9 LWL episodes that made the air.

Or is it the way Gary's portrayed in certain Lucy bio's?

Have you heard some not so great "Gary stories" that I don’t know of?

The only thing that even slightly "ticks me off" about Gary is that only a few weeks after Lucy's death he was dating Eva Gabor (according to one poster...I forget who). If that's true, that is something to get peeved over.

What did Gary do? Please fill me in...:lol:

Gary would bash Lucy behind her back when he was out in public. thats why I do not care for him.

Although he gave her peace of mind and few problems during their 28 years together, he dated weeks after she died and insiders say she was having lots of trouble with him at the end. Eva left him because of his golf obsession whereas Lucy endured it for 28 years and was left alone all the time, and was miserable playing games at home when she could have been performing, and he was HER MANAGER! Lucy got 125 thousand a week for Life with Lucy and he got 100 thousand, seem fair to you? It was her rep that went down the toilet after that fiasco and The Queen is Dead headlines in the papers, he just went back to his golf game!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Although he gave her peace of mind and few problems during their 28 years together, he dated weeks after she died and insiders say she was having lots of trouble with him at the end. Eva left him because of his golf obsession whereas Lucy endured it for 28 years and was left alone all the time, and was miserable playing games at home when she could have been performing, and he was HER MANAGER! Lucy got 125 thousand a week for Life with Lucy and he got 100 thousand, seem fair to you? It was her rep that went down the toilet after that fiasco and The Queen is Dead headlines in the papers, he just went back to his golf game!

he makes me so mad I could scream!! :cuss: Didnt he also pick and chose her friends for her?? She couldnt be friends with the people she was friends with when she was with Desi if I recall too. Course I could be wrong.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Lucy got 125 thousand a week for Life with Lucy and he got 100 thousand, seem fair to you?

Of course, that's business. I'm sure even Lucy endorsed Gary recieving a huge paycheck. Get as much money from the "bloodsuckers" as you can. :lol:

It was her rep that went down the toilet after that fiasco and The Queen is Dead headlines in the papers, he just went back to his golf game!

"The Queen is Dead" headlines!?! So the media were insensitive sons of b*tches then as well I see. Actually Gary continued to bring ideas to Lucy, but she had just given up (on her career) at that point. :(

IMO, the critics kept viewers away from this show. That and the viewers that did watch wanted ILL and nothing Lucy did could satisfy that.

Originally posted by Love, Lucy
he makes me so mad I could scream!! :cuss: Didnt he also pick and chose her friends for her?? She couldnt be friends with the people she was friends with when she was with Desi if I recall too. Course I could be wrong.

I've heard Lucie Arnaz say that her mom would often talk about some of her former friends and say something like, "I never heard from her or saw her again. Was it something I said?" It's a shame because it came down to a few people who "got used to the routine" and a lot of her good friends from Desi's era were gone. I don't know if the loss of some of those friends were Gary's doing or maybe it was something Lucy said. Who knows? But I do know that some people felt like Gary tried to "drive them out." I think Carole Cooke was one of them. Marcella Rawbin may have been another. She has implied that Gary was very manipulative.

Oh yes, of course, no doubt about it, Gary definitely weeded out all her old friends from Desi's days, that's all well documented! And NO, i don't think it's fair for her as the STAR to get 125 if that jerk got 100. They had a no concellation clause which meant that they had to receive a lump payment of 1 million dollars if they cancelled the show after 13 eps, he might have needed or wanted the money, she didn't need it. Didn't the Japanese offer her almost that amount to do a one day commercial only airing in Japan.

I think the difference between Gary and Desi was that Desi was always looking out for Lucy's best interest in the business, whereas Gary's intentions were suspect. I loved when Desi was on the Tonight Show in the '70s and Carson said something like, "You had many big shows on the air at one time, lots of big stars working for you..." and Desi said, "Yeah, but mostly we had Lucy." He never lost sight of the fact that she was it, she was the talent. Lucy trusted him because he knew what was good for her.

Gary thought he knew what was good for her, but some of his decisions were not in her best interest. Insiders said that it became very very hard to get scripts to her because Gary would always have to see it first. And it is partially understandable, because reading scripts takes a lot of time, but it appears that he didn't let her have a mind of her own. When the scripts you see are being filtered through someone else who possibly has his own agenda, Lucy probably passed up some great material without even knowing it.

On the other hand, Lucy didn't want him doing stand-up anymore and gave him a job in her company. That was her choice; she dug her own grave, in a way. I've always wondered why she chose to do this because she had a husband on staff before and it contributed to the demise of their marriage in a big way. Desi and Lucy saw each other too much, the pressure of the big business made an alchoholic out of Desi, etc. Knowing this, why would she continue on the same path with her second husband by keeping it in the family? Maybe it was because she wanted to keep on eye on him to make sure he wasn't cheating. Maybe it was to make him feel important. But when you work for your wife and are making decisions for her, but she's still seeking out her ex-husband for advice on business because he's the "brilliant" one, then how important can you really feel?

No argument that they both suffered from the Mr Ball syndrome. Desi's biggest contribution to Lucy's career definitely was his looking out for her best interests, making her look good at all times, then again, he didn't want her to do Mame, so we would have lost one of her best performances. Yes, i remember that interview where he told Carson, mostly we had Lucy, they even had this one line that they kept repeating, even Lucy herself said it many times, keep your eye on the money, and I'm the money. Remember the other great joke that the writer used to tell, one of the two later Bobs. He said that Lucy almost tripped on some wires and Desi joked, WATCH IT GUYS, ANYTHING EVER HAPPENS TO HER, AND WE'RE ALL IN THE SHRIMP BUSINESS! Getting back to topic, when i think that Lucy could have played the role in Driving Miss Daisy, and finally won her Oscar, or that role in The Manchurian Candidate that went to Angela Landsbury and all those tv roles she kept being considered for that went to Jean Stapleton or Jessica Tandy, it only reinforces in my mind what a great ending she might have had if her manager husband HAD been more concerned with her happiness and career rather than his own well being. We all remember him turning down the Broadway show that Lee was working on securing for her, because it would have meant moving to New York and losing his golf for six months, so he got her Stone Pillow instead.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
No argument that they both suffered from the Mr Ball syndrome. Desi's biggest contribution to Lucy's career definitely was his looking out for her best interests, making her look good at all times, then again, he didn't want her to do Mame, so we would have lost one of her best performances. Yes, i remember that interview where he told Carson, mostly we had Lucy, they even had this one line that they kept repeating, even Lucy herself said it many times, keep your eye on the money, and I'm the money. Remember the other great joke that the writer used to tell, one of the two later Bobs. He said that Lucy almost tripped on some wires and Desi joked, WATCH IT GUYS, ANYTHING EVER HAPPENS TO HER, AND WE'RE ALL IN THE SHRIMP BUSINESS! Getting back to topic, when i think that Lucy could have played the role in Driving Miss Daisy, and finally won her Oscar, or that role in The Manchurian Candidate that went to Angela Landsbury and all those tv roles she kept being considered for that went to Jean Stapleton or Jessica Tandy, it only reinforces in my mind what a great ending she might have had if her manager husband HAD been more concerned with her happiness and career rather than his own well being. We all remember him turning down the Broadway show that Lee was working on securing for her, because it would have meant moving to New York and losing his golf for six months, so he got her Stone Pillow instead.

Heaven forbid that he misses golf for a few months!! Whatta pig.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Remember the other great joke that the writer used to tell, one of the two later Bobs. He said that Lucy almost tripped on some wires and Desi joked, WATCH IT GUYS, ANYTHING EVER HAPPENS TO HER, AND WE'RE ALL IN THE SHRIMP BUSINESS!

Desi always had some great one-liners. Of course, you all know: "The only thing red about her is her hair, and even that's not legitimate."

I've always liked the story that Fred Ball told when he and Desi were going to sail to Catalina. Desi began drinking early and it was getting late. Desi was drunk and Fred said, "We can't go to Catalina now" and Desi said, "Oh yes, we're going to Catalina." So Desi was captain and it was pitch dark in the cabin, it was storming and Desi was way off course - lost, if I remember correctly. Fred cut himself on a fishing hook and could feel the blood all over him. Meanwhile, a big wave washed up and hit Desi in the face. He wiped his eyes off and turned to Fred and said, "If we get there and they're singing 'aloha,' then you know we're not in Catalina." He had a great sense of humor like that.

Ok, back to business...



Originally posted by SPLAIN
Desi's biggest contribution to Lucy's career definitely was his looking out for her best interests, making her look good at all times, then again, he didn't want her to do Mame, so we would have lost one of her best performances.

I have not seen "Mame," so I personally can't comment on how good it was or wasn't (I know that you're a big fan of the film, Claude), but I do know that some of the reviews broke her heart. So maybe, just maybe, it would have been better if she had followed his advice.


Originally posted by SPLAIN
We all remember him turning down the Broadway show that Lee was working on securing for her, because it would have meant moving to New York and losing his golf for six months, so he got her Stone Pillow instead.

Stone Pillow ruined her health, but Lucy always said that everytime she did a play (Dream Girl, Wildcat) she always ended up sick in the end. So it may have been a lose-lose situation. Although, Stone Pillow sounded like it was probably worse. Her health never recovered.

I'm not the only one that LOVES her in mame, i could make you a list of Mame lovers on the boards, if it can be copied, i'll even supply you with a copy if you want. Hon, ever try and tell a Leo NOT to do something, i'm a Leo, take it from me, Lucy loved to sing and dance, she worshipped performers who could do it well, she was starting out when the biggest stars were Fred and Ginger, she so wanted to do Hello Dolly but the producer gave it to Streisand who was much too young for the part, so she had to give up on that one, but even a recently broken leg could not keep her away from Mame. Not the fact that she couldn't sing well, or dance even sincer her skiing accident, Mame was larger than life, and although Lucy was everywoman and not like the character, you know, wordly and sophisticated, she made herself BECOME Mame, and she did. The movie was supposed to be directed by George Cukor, the reknowned woman's director, when she broke her leg, the producers delayed the picture a year, but Cukor went to another film, so Bea Arthur's husband directed badly instead, you see her actually pausing at the top of the stairs, waiting for the cue to come down at one point. It was a new era of slamming celebrities, so an old fashionned musical in the seventies and the era of Jaws made no sense. And while Lucy looked glorious in the film, she was by then too old for the early part of the film so she was photographed thru gauze so thick that every reviewer seized on that and some even asked why she would want to look like a female impersonator. But, if you like musicals, and you see it today, she looks and sounds and acts like the supertalent she was. Bigger than life, BUT, the public wanted her in comedies, not musicals, and although it's been referred to as a golden turkey, it made it's money back on the mediun Lucy flourished on, TV!

oh gosh.. I can't stand to even look at pictures of Gary..

enough said about that...


LUCY AND DESI 4EVER!!

I thought i would bust a gut the first time i read that Desi referred to Gary Morton as Barry Norton, to his kids.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
I thought i would bust a gut the first time i read that Desi referred to Gary Morton as Barry Norton, to his kids.

Yeah, and supposedly Desi never called Gary anything else but that (but never to his face, of course). I wonder if Lucy ever knew it? Like if the kids ever slipped up and called him Barry cause they were so used to their dad calling him that. In interviews, Gary has spoken so friendly of Desi, saying things like, "Desi and I are good friends because of the kids. I call him my husband-in-law." But I guess maybe he was exaggerating a bit?

Originally posted by SPLAIN
And NO, i don't think it's fair for her as the STAR to get 125 if that jerk got 100.

Why? He was the executive producer of the show. Just as Desi Arnaz's role during the first season of "The Lucy Show". You can believe that his pay was right up their with Lucy's at the time. You must seperate your personal feelings about Gary from the business, that's business. I bet the other two individuals (Aaron Spelling and Douglas S. Crane) who executive produced LWL were payed just as well as Gary.

Had the show continued though Lucy's salary would've grown and she could've been the first star to demand $1 million an episode (as wild as it may sound).

I loved when Desi was on the Tonight Show in the '70s and Carson said something like, "You had many big shows on the air at one time, lots of big stars working for you..." and Desi said, "Yeah, but mostly we had Lucy." He never lost sight of the fact that she was it, she was the talent. Lucy trusted him because he knew what was good for her.

Well to be fair Gary made quite a few "Lucy is the best thing that happen to me and I know what I have in her" comments as well. Of course, most of us don't know them by heart, lol.

BUT, the public wanted her in comedies, not musicals, and although it's been referred to as a golden turkey, it made it's money back on the mediun Lucy flourished on, TV!

That problem plauged Lucy's after a certain time in her career. She wanted to work, but the public only wanted her certain roles, and looking a certain way (as she appeared in ILL) therefore she was damned if she did (EX. Life With Lucy) and damned if she didn't (EX. Mame). Lucy was smart enough to know this which is why she was so devastaed after LWL because she gave the public what they wanted but they wouldn't except her because she was older.

I haven't read any books about Gary Morton and I have no intention to. From what I have heard and read about him is enough for me. I will always consider Desi as Lucy's love for life. Gary was just the substitute love for Lucy from when they got married to her death. I have always felt that Gary really didn't love Lucy as much as Desi. I think Desi's love for Lucy was far greater and superior over Gary's. Gary loved Lucy for what he got out of her. I wouldn't be surprised if he made several attempts to take an advantage over Lucy just because she was famous and loaded with money. That's probably one of the reasons he married her in the first place. Oh well . . . I guess we'll never truly know.

Gary was just the substitute love for Lucy from when they got married to her death.

Substitute love...

That's a new one.

There is alot of "Desi bias" involved in everyone's opinion of Gary, IMO.

"Desi was the one I prefer her with therefore she couldn't possibly have loved anyone even remotely as much as she loved Desi." That's the type of feeling I'm getting from alot of these posts.

All I know is that Lucy loved Gary enough to marry him and you morons are wasting your time despising someone who Lucy loved and you will never change that fact. Desi can be a 2 timing whore on Lucy but oh you guys are all for him. Why is everyone so hypocritical when it comes to her husbands? She loved them both and I admire both in different ways. Gary was just as good to Lucy if not better that Desi was.

Well I know nothing at all about Gary, and have no opinion on the guy, accept to feel faintly sorry for him. Hell of an act to follow, plus he's supposed to have said once that he felt he was only keeping Desi's place warm. That's kinda sad.

Originally posted by Mickey
Hell of an act to follow, plus he's supposed to have said once that he felt he was only keeping Desi's place warm. That's kinda sad.

To add to that, Gary also supposedly said right after Lucy died: "At least she's happy now; she's with Desi." That really says a lot. He knew who her "favorite husband" was -- or how else do you interpret that statement? You're welcome to try.

It's not to say that she didn't love Gary, she did marry him after she vowed never to marry anyone ever again. But from some of the comments made by friends of hers over the years and Gary himself concerning how she felt about Desi, it seems that she never stopped loving Desi and considered him the love of her life. That's all we're saying.

Originally posted by That Other Fan
Well to be fair Gary made quite a few "Lucy is the best thing that happen to me and I know what I have in her" comments as well. Of course, most of us don't know them by heart, lol.

Lucy may have been the best thing that ever happened to Gary, but in what way? Insiders claimed that Gary would constantly take from Lucy and "use it as his importance." Randomly, Gary would approach whoever was in charge of the money and say, "Lucy said to add another $5000 to my salary."

People who knew them and worked for them claimed that Gary never looked out for Lucy's best interests. Lucy's 'sister' Cleo was one of them. When Cleo was executive producing one of Lucy's specials, someone warned her not to let Gary in because if it failed, it would be her fault and if it succeeded, Gary would take all the credit. That's another difference between Gary and Desi. If someone made a big mistake, he would put his arm around you and say, "Well amigo, I guess we blew it," instead of saying "I guess you blew it." That's one of the things people loved about him. To quote Marcella Rabwin: "Desi was not intellectual, but he was very, very bright. Gary was not intellectual, but he was very, very shrewd. There's a difference."

Yes, i always LOVED that line of hers, Marcella got that one right. We morons know that we are talking about something that is done and even buried, but we are still allowed to discuss it all at length. We are fans, so we get together and throw opinions at each other. My BIG one has always been to be fair, like i always say she spent 28 years with Gary, so he had to have done something right, he gave her boring because after the 19 years of hectic with Desi, she wanted and needed boring at that point. She certainly LOOKED happy with him, then again, she was an actress, used to portraying herself in a certain way. I might not have won the Oscar, but i have a happy marriage seemed to be her mantra, just my opinion. But insiders and family claim she was not happy with him at the end, and most people say he spent more time playing golf than managing her career. BUT, she was a smart woman, would she have let HIM bury her career, when it was the most important thing in the world to her, i think not. And speaking from my heart, i would say ten to fifteen happy years with the love of my life means a lot more to me than almost thirty with an old comfortable shoe. BUT my head tells me that it was a two way street, being Mr Ball and having a woman who runs the purse strings, is my meal ticket, and TELLS me what to do all the time, and not always in a nice way had to be very difficult for him. She wanted tranquility and peace of mind and sacrificed a little status and power and work in the process.

Lucy may have been the best thing that ever happened to Gary, but in what way? Insiders claimed that Gary would constantly take from Lucy and "use it as his importance." Randomly, Gary would approach whoever was in charge of the money and say, "Lucy said to add another $5000 to my salary."

You missed the point of my comment. The point I was trying to get across is yes Desi said some wonderful things about Lucy. Therefore it's easier to say “yeah Desi loved her more...look what he said.” My point, is Gary made comments along those lines "Hey, Lucy is the best thing in the word. I know she's the most ingredient to my success", which in essence was what Desi was saying to Johnny Carson. The only thing is most of us don't have those comments ingrained in our memory and can’t repeat them verbatim.

People who knew them and worked for them claimed that Gary never looked out for Lucy's best interests.

There is always two sides to every story...

Cliff Norton
“Gary Morton had two important functions on this series (referring to “Here’s Lucy”). One was to take care of the business details for Lucille Ball Productions. The other was to shop their money around on a day to day basis. It was not unusual back then for very wealthy people to move their money from bank to bank, trying to get the best return available. All of the banks and investment houses wanted the kind of money Lucille and Gary had to offer, and this required daily scrutiny. Gary really excelled at this. He also kept Lucille happy, which of course was important to everyone who cared about her. One day she said to me, “You know Gary really loves me. And he’s so clean, not like the Cuban!” Gary made Lucille feel secure as woman, so she was free to do her work unencumbered.”

Mike Connors

“It was because of Gary Morton and Lucille that I was on Mannix.”


(Referring to Gary’s roll on Here’s Lucy) “Gary Morton seemed to be kept busy behind the scenes. He really had no impact with what was happening on the set.”


Desi Arnaz Jr.
“I’d like to say something about Gary Morton. You know, he and Cleo really did produce the show. I don’t remember Mom being in on casting, or making sure the show came in on budget. They had real jobs to do, and they did them very well. People who have written books trying to characterize Gary as less than professional, or just as Mom’s consort, are looking to make money. Gary’s influence was extraordinary, both on the set and off. He was a good man, and I think people have an axe to grind. My professional experience with Gary was wonderful; Here’s Lucy was film heaven compared to some sets I’ve worked on.”

Lucie Arnaz
“Gary ran the business. About what was funny, he usually deferred to my mother. It was my mother’s choice as to what story lines would fly. Gary would audition people...that sort of thing. A lot of people have written about how he changed the comedy on the show. That would be impossible to do. My father had great influence on my mother’s comedy. After he left, Gary did not fill that spot. He would never have tried. He did not deal with the writers like my father did. That became my mother’s job. And Cleo really worked hard as the line producer. She made sure everyone got paid, that all union requirements were met, and that things ran smoothly. Mom had the upper hand on the set always, but Gary and Cleo made certain Lucille Ball Productions was in good working order. Cleo is brilliant, capable, and real. She produced over 100 shows and specials.”

Like I said, there are always two sides to every story, and you can't always believe everything you hear. For instance, some characterize Lucy as being this ferocious monster on set. Who berated each and every person who got in her path. Of course, there are many others who say she was the pillar of professionalism. But what usually makes it into the books....The “ferocious monster” stories. :rolleyes:

Who doesn't love Gary?

Very well said, i differ with only ONE point, LUCY AND LUCY ALONE got Mannix on the air, she did something she had never done before to call CBS and tell them she knew they were looking at two shows and only one would make their schedule and she wanted Mannix to be that show, she hated doing it and she had never done that sort of thing before, the powers that be at the studio told her she had to do it to help save Desilu and Lucy always did what she HAD to do, especially where thousands of lives and jobs were on the line, now maybe Gary was one of the ones doing the pushing, but she made the call and only SHE got the desired results.

Originally posted by That Other Fan


You missed the point of my comment. The point I was trying to get across is yes Desi said some wonderful things about Lucy. Therefore it's easier to say “yeah Desi loved her more...look what he said.” My point, is Gary made comments along those lines "Hey, Lucy is the best thing in the word. I know she's the most ingredient to my success", which in essence was what Desi was saying to Johnny Carson. The only thing is most of us don't have those comments ingrained in our memory and can’t repeat them verbatim.



There is always two sides to every story...

Cliff Norton
“Gary Morton had two important functions on this series (referring to “Here’s Lucy”). One was to take care of the business details for Lucille Ball Productions. The other was to shop their money around on a day to day basis. It was not unusual back then for very wealthy people to move their money from bank to bank, trying to get the best return available. All of the banks and investment houses wanted the kind of money Lucille and Gary had to offer, and this required daily scrutiny. Gary really excelled at this. He also kept Lucille happy, which of course was important to everyone who cared about her. One day she said to me, “You know Gary really loves me. And he’s so clean, not like the Cuban!” Gary made Lucille feel secure as woman, so she was free to do her work unencumbered.”

Mike Connors

“It was because of Gary Morton and Lucille that I was on Mannix.”


(Referring to Gary’s roll on Here’s Lucy) “Gary Morton seemed to be kept busy behind the scenes. He really had no impact with what was happening on the set.”


Desi Arnaz Jr.
“I’d like to say something about Gary Morton. You know, he and Cleo really did produce the show. I don’t remember Mom being in on casting, or making sure the show came in on budget. They had real jobs to do, and they did them very well. People who have written books trying to characterize Gary as less than professional, or just as Mom’s consort, are looking to make money. Gary’s influence was extraordinary, both on the set and off. He was a good man, and I think people have an axe to grind. My professional experience with Gary was wonderful; Here’s Lucy was film heaven compared to some sets I’ve worked on.”

Lucie Arnaz
“Gary ran the business. About what was funny, he usually deferred to my mother. It was my mother’s choice as to what story lines would fly. Gary would audition people...that sort of thing. A lot of people have written about how he changed the comedy on the show. That would be impossible to do. My father had great influence on my mother’s comedy. After he left, Gary did not fill that spot. He would never have tried. He did not deal with the writers like my father did. That became my mother’s job. And Cleo really worked hard as the line producer. She made sure everyone got paid, that all union requirements were met, and that things ran smoothly. Mom had the upper hand on the set always, but Gary and Cleo made certain Lucille Ball Productions was in good working order. Cleo is brilliant, capable, and real. She produced over 100 shows and specials.”

Like I said, there are always two sides to every story, and you can't always believe everything you hear. For instance, some characterize Lucy as being this ferocious monster on set. Who berated each and every person who got in her path. Of course, there are many others who say she was the pillar of professionalism. But what usually makes it into the books....The “ferocious monster” stories. :rolleyes:

All of those quotes are probably very true. Gary did work behind the scenes, he did have a lot of influence in running the business, and he did have a big job to do and did it. There's no doubt about that; I never questioned it.

What a lot of us have been questioning were his motivations, his true intentions. Both Lucie and Desi, Jr. said in those quotes that Gary and Cleo were the head honchos on "Here's Lucy." Together, they made sure the show ran smoothly. But, as I mentioned in my last post, his co-worker and 'sister-in-law' Cleo questioned his intentions. Aside from Fred and DeDe Ball, she knew Lucy the longest and the best. Her view was that he wasn't thinking about what was best for Lucy, but what was best for himself.

I also think that it is expected that Lucie and Desi, Jr. would defend Gary. He was their stepfather, their second dad. He raised them from pre-adolescence up. He was peacemaker in the family when they had an argument with their mom; he was the 'fun parent' at the Beverly Hill house. And he got a lot of flack because the public has this image of Lucy and Ricky together and happy, and Lucy and Desi together and happy, and it is hard for them to see her married to some other guy. The kids know this and of course they would defend him. He probably does get a little more flack than he should be getting. But negative comments that I read about Gary come from people like Cleo, people who worked with him. Granted, Lucie and Desi Jr. worked with Gary, but, let's face it, they are a little biased. And if Gary Morton really had "no impact with what was happening on the set," then how would they really know anyway? They were actors! But then again, everybody has some type of bias.

I've heard both sides of the story, the good and the bad. All I'm saying is that I'm not too happy with the bad. And it seems like there is a lot of bad.

Paula Stewart, Lucy's friend for thirty years who co starred with her in Wildcat and introduced Gary to Lucy, said that they were not happy together at the end, which is not something i want to hear, maybe she lost her will to live when her marriage also went. Paula stated that Lucy was having trouble with Gary, i jusy wish she would write that book so we could get her version of things. There's that OTHER reference in a book saying that Gary was badmouthing Lucy after she died to Sinatra cronies, and they did not like that one bit, which is nice. Then, there's the dating Eva three weeks after Lucy died. That one doesn't bother me as much as it would if it was three weeks BEFORE she died!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Paula Stewart, Lucy's friend for thirty years who co starred with her in Wildcat and introduced Gary to Lucy, said that they were not happy together at the end, which is not something i want to hear, maybe she lost her will to live when her marriage also went. Paula stated that Lucy was having trouble with Gary, i jusy wish she would write that book so we could get her version of things. There's that OTHER reference in a book saying that Gary was badmouthing Lucy after she died to Sinatra cronies, and they did not like that one bit, which is nice. Then, there's the dating Eva three weeks after Lucy died. That one doesn't bother me as much as it would if it was three weeks BEFORE she died!

I hope Lucy haunted him for the rest of his life. Thats awful..

Well, there was this one article in one of the tabloids that said Lucy did haunt the house, Gary said she came to him and told him he should leave the house and get on with his life, after all, we now know he lived there for two years AFTER she died, until the lawyers practically kicked him out, i'm sure he thought that house would be HIS, but of course that was not the case, she left him the Palm Springs house instead. In the story Gary said she told him to sell the house, but it wasn't his to sell anyway. Lee Tannen also said Lucy's presence could be felt everywhere in the house, but that's understandable, i would feel that too if i was walking around her house and missing her, especially right after she died!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Then, there's the dating Eva three weeks after Lucy died. That one doesn't bother me as much as it would if it was three weeks BEFORE she died!

I know!! That bothers me more than anything. She wasn't even cold yet and here he was, dating someone else. Is this well documented? He could have just been keeping company with Eva -- a friendly thing. I've never really read that in any book, just through boards like this.

It just seems hard for me to believe that you can be married to somebody for so long and then pick up with someone else three weeks later. Most people would have some sort of period of mourning, where they wouldn't want to date anybody else because they are so saddened over their spouse's death. People deal with grief in different ways, but c'mon Gary. Not cool.

On another message board there is a thread titled: "Desi Arnaz: Unleashed." Sounds more like "Gary Morton: Unleashed." Sounds like Desi wasn't the only skirt-chaser that Lucy was married to. Three weeks passed and he couldn't take it anymore! :eek:

Well, the OTHER side of that coin is that Gary was well known to be a ladies man BEFORE he married Lucy. Lucy herself acknowledged it to Barbara Walters in Gary's presence in that famous interview. Lucy said she knew he had a very busy dating life or words to that effect, it was said that he went through the line of Rockettes at Radio City Music Hall and the one good joke was the leader of the girls saying she knew which girl he had dated the night before because she kicked a lot higher, LOL! Anyway, if he was loyal to Lucy and kept her happy in the sack to almost the end as it is said, then finally free to go back to his old ways after she had passed makes sense to me, sorta like when i hear of a couple who live for each other, then one dies and the other one is married within months. I find it hard to understand, but i get part of that. One of my best jokes has to be repeated here though, when i heard that he had dated the likes of Eva Gabor and Lauren Bacall, i said it figured for Lauren Bacall, because knowing how frugal he was, he could probably give her some of Lucy's old monogrammed things as gifts, same initials, you know!

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
All of those quotes are probably very true. Gary did work behind the scenes, he did have a lot of influence in running the business, and he did have a big job to do and did it. There's no doubt about that; I never questioned it.

What a lot of us have been questioning were his motivations, his true intentions. Both Lucie and Desi, Jr. said in those quotes that Gary and Cleo were the head honchos on "Here's Lucy." Together, they made sure the show ran smoothly. But, as I mentioned in my last post, his co-worker and 'sister-in-law' Cleo questioned his intentions.

In your last post, you said

"People who knew them and worked for them claimed that Gary never looked out for Lucy's best interests."

My comments and quotes were to show that quite a few felt that he always had Lucy's best interest in mind, and that he never usurped his position in doing what he thought was best for Lucille Ball.

It is another side to what is usually presented, like the example I gave about certain people considering Lucy to be a "ferocious monster" on set, while others considered her to be a "pillar of professionalism", who knew exactly what she wanted.

Both points should be considered. Not one written off in favor of the other because more comments about "the bad" exist in the books. Like another example I brought up, which are the stories that populate Lucy books? The "ferocious monster" stories or the "pillar of professionalism" stories? If we took what populated certain books as "fact" we woudn't have a very well-rounded picture of who Lucille Ball really was.

I also think that it is expected that Lucie and Desi, Jr. would defend Gary. He was their stepfather, their second dad. He raised them from pre-adolescence up. He was peacemaker in the family when they had an argument with their mom; he was the 'fun parent' at the Beverly Hill house. And he got a lot of flack because the public has this image of Lucy and Ricky together and happy, and Lucy and Desi together and happy, and it is hard for them to see her married to some other guy. The kids know this and of course they would defend him. He probably does get a little more flack than he should be getting. But negative comments that I read about Gary come from people like Cleo, people who worked with him. Granted, Lucie and Desi Jr. worked with Gary, but, let's face it, they are a little biased.


This is coming off as "They didn't say what I wanted them to say therefore I can just ignore it, and pass it off as 'well he was their step-father'"

Every one of the people I quoted worked with Gary as well.


And if Gary Morton really had "no impact with what was happening on the set," then how would they really know anyway?

Because he would have been an controlling force on the set making all of the decisions. Lucy would have deferred to him, not the other way around as Lucie says.

You can't have both ways. You can't post quotes from those that say one thing about Gary and ignore the others because it doesn't put forth the image that you have developed.

Originally posted by That Other Fan
In your last post, you said

"People who knew them and worked for them claimed that Gary never looked out for Lucy's best interests."

My comments and quotes were to show that quite a few felt that he always had Lucy's best interest in mind, and that he never usurped his position in doing what he thought was best for Lucille Ball.

It is another side to what is usually presented, like the example I gave about certain people considering Lucy to be a "ferocious monster" on set, while others considered her to be a "pillar of professionalism", who knew exactly what she wanted.

Both points should be considered. Not one written off in favor of the other because more comments about "the bad" exist in the books. Like another example I brought up, which are the stories that populate Lucy books? The "ferocious monster" stories or the "pillar of professionalism" stories? If we took what populated certain books as "fact" we woudn't have a very well-rounded picture of who Lucille Ball really was.




This is coming off as "They didn't say what I wanted them to say therefore I can just ignore it, and pass it off as 'well he was their step-father'"

Every one of the people I quoted worked with Gary as well.




Because he would have been an controlling force on the set making all of the decisions. Lucy would have deferred to him, not the other way around as Lucie says.

You can't have both ways. You can't post quotes from those that say one thing about Gary and ignore the others because it doesn't put forth the image that you have developed.

Really?? If Gary had Lucys best interest/well being in mind.. then he wouldnt have bashed her out in public.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Lucy said she knew he had a very busy dating life or words to that effect, it was said that he went through the line of Rockettes at Radio City Music Hall and the one good joke was the leader of the girls saying she knew which girl he had dated the night before because she kicked a lot higher, LOL!

I've heard that before -- but I always thought they were talking about Desi!!! Shows what I know. I had no idea that Gary rivaled Desi in the "player" department. I always thought that Gary was a very nice looking older man - but I'd love to see a pic of him when he was in his twenties.


Originally posted by SPLAIN
Anyway, if he was loyal to Lucy and kept her happy in the sack to almost the end as it is said, then finally free to go back to his old ways after she had passed makes sense to me, sorta like when i hear of a couple who live for each other, then one dies and the other one is married within months. I find it hard to understand, but i get part of that.

He was very loyal to the end AS FAR AS WE KNOW. Sounds like he was more loyal to his golf balls though! No pun intended. Still, even if he was a ladies man, you just don't date three weeks after your wife died. Even Desi was very depressed after Edie died in 1983, so depressed that the kids convinced Lucy to let him bunk in the guesthouse behind her. Gary didn't sound depressed to me.

You're right, i guess i meant if a woman has been controlling him with her actions and controlling the money and what he can or can't do for almost thirty years that he would feel like a man geting out of jail, ooh bad example, i mean a married man with a controlling wife would suddenly feel free, oh forget it, you're right three weeks is ridiculous! But, ok then about that rearranging the furniture that Lee described and Gary answering him, well, it's MY house now and i'm going to do what I want! That's what i'm talking about!

Originally posted by That Other Fan
In your last post, you said

"People who knew them and worked for them claimed that Gary never looked out for Lucy's best interests."

My comments and quotes were to show that quite a few felt that he always had Lucy's best interest in mind, and that he never usurped his position in doing what he thought was best for Lucille Ball.


And my point was that none of those quotes really, really said that Gary Morton had Lucy's best interests at heart, to my satisfaction anyway.

Originally posted by That Other Fan
Both points should be considered. Not one written off in favor of the other because more comments about "the bad" exist in the books. Like another example I brought up, which are the stories that populate Lucy books? The "ferocious monster" stories or the "pillar of professionalism" stories? If we took what populated certain books as "fact" we woudn't have a very well-rounded picture of who Lucille Ball really was.

I have always tried to be very fair in my posts. But you are dishing out a lot of positive comments about Gary; I am presenting the flip side to it. He wasn't Mr. Perfect. No one is, and I am the first to acknowledge that.


Originally posted by That Other Fan
This is coming off as "They didn't say what I wanted them to say therefore I can just ignore it, and pass it off as 'well he was their step-father'"

Every one of the people I quoted worked with Gary as well.

I didn't want them to say anything and I'm not ignoring anything either. I was just pointing out that they saw things from an entirely different level than the other people who worked at LB Productions and they have different biases. They didn't work behind-the-scenes, they didn't notice things that Cleo and other business people saw.


Originally posted by That Other Fan
You can't have both ways. You can't post quotes from those that say one thing about Gary and ignore the others because it doesn't put forth the image that you have developed.

Maybe you should follow your own advice. I don't see you offering up any anti-Gary quotes.

There is no 'image' that I have developed that sees life with Desi as a bed of roses and life with Gary as hell on earth. I am not here to push some negative image of Gary on anyone. I am merely here to learn more about why Lucille Ball's husband was the way he was, just like I am here to learn about Lucy herself. The person who started this thread asked why everyone dislikes Gary so much. That's the topic. And I'm answering 'This is why!' and I'm helping to answer that question. The positive and negative have been presented. I have never denied the positive.

Originally posted by Love, Lucy
Really?? If Gary had Lucys best interest/well being in mind.. then he wouldnt have bashed her out in public.


From what has been posted here, most of those comments came after Lucy's death. It's strange how people react to a loved ones passing. Some are actually angry with the person that passed "How dare this person leave me. How dare you go." That could have been the scenario with Gary. We don't know how he was effected by the whole thing.


You're right, i guess i meant if a woman has been controlling him with her actions and controlling the money and what he can or can't do for almost thirty years that he would feel like a man geting out of jail, ooh bad example, i mean a married man with a controlling wife would suddenly feel free, oh forget it, you're right three weeks is ridiculous! But, ok then about that rearranging the furniture that Lee described and Gary answering him, well, it's MY house now and i'm going to do what I want! That's what i'm talking about!

What if his dating so soon after Lucy's death was not the result of "him being free" after their long marriage, but the fact that he actually had trouble coping with his wife's passing. Therefore he made the mistake of seeking comfort with someone like Eva. Of course it didn't work out because he really didn't want her around, she was just a their in place of the woman he actually loved, that had left him.

Then again, it could be that he and Eva grew close after he lost Lucy and everyone just assumed they were an item.

Again, two sides to every story.

Originally posted by dlemond
Who doesn't love Gary? http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/attachment.php?s=&postid=1005193
:lol: :lol: :lol: I love Gary!

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
And my point was that none of those quotes really, really said that Gary Morton had Lucy's best interests at heart, to my satisfaction anyway.

Because maybe you won't be satisfied until a "certain" image of Gary is presented as fact.


He wasn't Mr. Perfect. No one is, and I am the first to acknowledge that.

I also feel he wasn't perfect, but I don't believe he was the bane of Lucille Ball's existence either, which many seem to feel that he was.

They didn't work behind-the-scenes, they didn't notice things that Cleo and other business people saw.

They were on the set and present a different view than some. They say he wasn't there "just to cash in" and he did his job, and yet "we" ignore those comments because "it's obvious the only reason they defend is because he was their step-daddy"

Maybe you should follow your own advice. I don't see you offering up any anti-Gary quotes.

I don't exactly see any pro-Gary comments coming from you as well.

I am merely here to learn more about why Lucille Ball's husband was the way he was

That is the point of all my comments. The way he has been portrayed in certain books and specials may not be the most accurate portrayal. We have to look deeper than that.

The person who started this thread

That would be me...lol

Originally posted by That Other Fan

Because maybe you won't be satisfied until a "certain" image of Gary is presented as fact.

Obviously you missed my point. Re-read the last paragraph of my last post – I’ve already addressed this.


Originally posted by That Other Fan


They were on the set and present a different view than some. They say he wasn't there "just to cash in" and he did his job, and yet "we" ignore those comments because "it's obvious the only reason they defend is because he was their step-daddy"

I’ve already addressed this, too. I said that they had different biases, everybody sees things in their own, unique way. Everybody has their own side of the story. The people whom you quoted earlier (the kids, Mike Connors, Cliff Norton) each had his or her own side of the story. But from what perspective?

Sure, Mike Connors and Cliff Norton had great things to say about Gary. But they were actors, guest-stars. Flashes in the pan. They weren’t on the set day in and day out, and even if they were, they wouldn’t be dealing with the behind-the-scenes stuff that Gary was into. Of course, Gary probably is a nice guy and on the surface he probably appeared to be a great businessman. Maybe he was – I don’t know, I wasn’t there! I saw some of the old interviews and tributes to Lucy recently and remember thinking to myself, "Gary really seems like a nice guy." That was my perspective at that moment, from the outside looking in.

All I do know is that some insiders had good things to say about Gary, some insiders had bad comments to make. To me, it seems like the ‘bad’ comments are coming from those he worked closest to. You seem to think that all I look at is the bad, and that’s just not true. Granted, I’m posting a lot of the bad here – but as you said, you started the post. You asked for it. :)


Originally posted by That Other Fan
I don't exactly see any pro-Gary comments coming from you as well.

No, but thanks for taking care of that for me!

I may not be posting all of the accolades for Gary, but I’ve always admitted that there are many sides to every story, there’s always the possibility of people bending the truth due to some sort of bias, people always have an axe to grind, etc. Anything is possible.

Lucy claimed that she was happy with Gary, and that’s great. I really hope it's true. She deserved happiness, especially since her last marriage ended in such heartache for her. Gary served his purpose, as far as we know. But it’s not always that simple. As you said before, “We have to look deeper than that.”

My feelings towards Gary are kind of mixed. I had always liked him until reading Lee Tannen's book, and then I hated him. But now I realize that it was only one person's opinion of Gary, I'm sure others felt differently. He was always away playing golf, and he did persuede Lucy to make some bad career choices, but he didn't cheat (that we know of) and like Lucy said, he took care of her, and he helped her when she was depressed after Here's Lucy ended. I've never met Gary, so I can't really make a judgment on him.

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
Obviously you missed my point. Re-read the last paragraph of my last post – I’ve already addressed this.


The comment I quoted:

And my point was that none of those quotes really, really said that Gary Morton had Lucy's best interests at heart, to my satisfaction anyway.

My response:

Because maybe you won't be satisfied until a "certain" image of Gary is presented as fact.

An explanation of my response:

Meaning, maybe you were not satisfied with what I provided because it was what you wanted to hear. It didn't portray him as this "horrible person". Presented a side that you didn't like. You continue to say you know they’re two sides to every story, yet when I present something that provides a different view, you quickly write it off.

Sure, Mike Connors and Cliff Norton had great things to say about Gary. But they were actors, guest-stars. Flashes in the pan. They weren’t on the set day in and day out, and even if they were, they wouldn’t be dealing with the behind-the-scenes stuff that Gary was into.

They were on the set long enough (and in Gary's presence long enough) to observe the type of control Gary had on the set (espeically Cliff Norton, as he made numerous appearances on "Here's Lucy"). They could definitely tell who called the shots on the show. What his role was with the show and how he handled it.


All I do know is that some insiders had good things to say about Gary, some insiders had bad comments to make. To me, it seems like the ‘bad’ comments are coming from those he worked closest to.

Lucie and Desi Jr, though you write them off, were just as close to the situation as anyone who worked "closely" with him. In fact, one could argue that they were closer than any co-worker was, as they went home after the business day was complete and had to deal with him person to person. They above anyone (besides Lucy herself) could tell you just what his intentions were. As Janetvfan's thread on proved, Lucie can be just a "blunt", "honest", and "to the point". Just as her mother was (something I did not know).

Gary served his purpose, as far as we know.

Served his purpose??

The man was her husband. :lol:


Again, an example of that tinge of hate in your comments toward Gary.

Seems to me that most people's problem towards Gary is simply that he wasn't Desi. He wasn't a dynamic, exciting Cuban, but what instead a fairly ordinary bloke. It's a little unfair to dislike the guy for that reason!

Originally posted by That Other Fan


The comment I quoted:

And my point was that none of those quotes really, really said that Gary Morton had Lucy's best interests at heart, to my satisfaction anyway.

My response:

Because maybe you won't be satisfied until a "certain" image of Gary is presented as fact.

An explanation of my response:

Meaning, maybe you were not satisfied with what I provided because it was what you wanted to hear. It didn't portray him as this "horrible person". Presented a side that you didn't like. You continue to say you know they’re two sides to every story, yet when I present something that provides a different view, you quickly write it off.



You just don't get it. I keep having to repeat myself. As I've been saying, you've been presenting one side, I've been presenting the other. Sure, I have those same books with those same quotes that you have. I could have just as easily taken on the role of defending Gary, just as I took on the role of defending Lucie on that other thread a few weeks ago. That was strange, since I never payed too much attention to Lucie before. She needed to be defended, I stepped up to the plate and defended her because I had certain facts that suggested to me that she wasn't as bad as people were making her out to be. I'm sure you're trying to do the same with Gary.

I haven't been 'writing off anything.' The people who made those comments have their own opinions, their own truths. I am presenting some different opinons from other people who took on different roles than the people whose opinons you are presenting. People who have different truths. The flip side.

I didn't say that the quotes from Lucie and Desi. Jr were irrelevant because they are Gary's stepchildren. I'm just attempting to look at things from their perspective, see where they are coming from. I'm not writing off what they have to say at all.

And obviously you are doing the same thing that you say that I'm doing to you. I'm telling you certain things that you don't want to hear, so you are attacking me for it.



Originally posted by That Other Fan
They were on the set long enough (and in Gary's presence long enough) to observe the type of control Gary had on the set (espeically Cliff Norton, as he made numerous appearances on "Here's Lucy"). They could definitely tell who called the shots on the show. What his role was with the show and how he handled it.


Numerous? What, like 5 appearances in 6 years? Maybe even less than that. At least according to the "Lucy Book," it didn't list him down as being on that many episodes. And as I've been saying over and over and OVER, I've never denied that Gary called the shots.



Originally posted by That Other Fan
Served his purpose??

The man was her husband. :lol:


Again, an example of that tinge of hate in your comments toward Gary.

Obviously you completely disregarded what I had written before that. The purpose that he served was to make her happy. Lucy said that Gary made her happy, and as I said before, I'm glad. There's nothing hateful about that.

Geez, that took five years out of my life, just reading those! Lucy wanted bland and she got it, she wanted someone to protect her, to take care of the things she didn't want to have to bother with, in the Walters interview, she mentions that he did more to help her after the show ended than even HE could realize. She was despondant, had nothing to keep her busy, nothing she wanted to do, Lucie says Gary should have said yes to certain things and should have pushed her to do them, but look what happened when he pushed her to do Life with Lucy! He was not brilliant like Desi, but he did the job without being drunk all the time. He was away golfing, but he didn't cheat, although even that one some people speculate about, so if he did, at least he didn't make it obvious like his predecessor. He wasn't a TV genius, but he got the job done. She called him a perfect GENTLEMAN! He couldn't even golf on the course where their Palm Springs home was because no Jews were allowed to play there or eat in the clubhouse, when a newspaperman asked her about it, she said he was too much of a gentleman to make a stink about it all. When they appeared together in public, he was her protector and always at her side, she felt comfortable and could relax, they looked good together, and like i keep saying maybe she was happy that her marriage was ending it's thir decade when her contemporaries were struggling with divorce after divorce.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
She called him a perfect GENTLEMAN! He couldn't even golf on the course where their Palm Springs home was because no Jews were allowed to play there or eat in the clubhouse, when a newspaperman asked her about it, she said he was too much of a gentleman to make a stink about it all. When they appeared together in public, he was her protector and always at her side, she felt comfortable and could relax, they looked good together, and like i keep saying maybe she was happy that her marriage was ending it's thir decade when her contemporaries were struggling with divorce after divorce.

That's embarrassing that in the US in the 60s there were still places where Jews were prevented from entering! Although I must say that both Lucy and Gary could have used their influence to make some changes happen there. Lucy had done this before, when she went to a hotel and her black maid wasn't allowed to go up the main elevator -- or something like that. Lucy talked to them and they changed their policy completely from then on.

Originally posted by RICARDOS4EVER
Although I must say that both Lucy and Gary could have used their influence to make some changes happen there. Lucy had done this before, when she went to a hotel and her black maid wasn't allowed to go up the main elevator -- or something like that. Lucy talked to them and they changed their policy completely from then on.

Slightly different circumstances though, isn't it. Lucy's maid was an employee of hers, therefore she was in a position to do something about it. If her husband didn't want to make a fuss, though, it's harder for her to do so for him. Like when Sammy Davis supposedly didn't want to argue about which night-club entrance he was allowed to use, and Dino did want to make a fuss about it. It's awkward when the injured party wants to stay out of the way.

Don't be so surprised that Jews weren't allowed into a golf club back then though. Look at Tiger Woods! When he won that big golf tournament a few years back everybody suddenly realised that he was the first black guy who'd ever been allowed to play in some of those clubs. And that's now! Whole world's still insane.

2000 year old hatred, amazing isn't it?

I'm sure you're trying to do the same with Gary.

Not really defending Gary as “challenging popular opinion.” It seems a lot of individuals (you included) come from the position of, “he wasn’t brilliant like Desi, and I prefer Desi, therefore I can belittle Gary as some guy with the fortune to marry Lucille Ball.” Not really fair to Gary or Lucy, but no, I wouldn’t consider this “defending Gary.”

I didn't say that the quotes from Lucie and Desi. Jr were irrelevant because they are Gary's stepchildren. I'm just attempting to look at things from their perspective, see where they are coming from.

Yes, and then you “write it off” by saying, well the only perspective they could possibly come from is that of the "stepchildren". They only defend him because he was the mediator in the household.

In essence, yes you are “writing off “ their comments.

Numerous? What, like 5 appearances in 6 years? Maybe even less than that. At least according to the "Lucy Book," it didn't list him down as being on that many episodes.


Numerous...Many...More than one....a handful of episodes....Whatever you prefer. :lol: He was there, and definitely provides great insight into Gary’s role on the show and somewhat into their relationship.

Obviously you completely disregarded what I had written before that. The purpose that he served was to make her happy. Lucy said that Gary made her happy, and as I said before, I'm glad. There's nothing hateful about that.

"Serving a purpose", perhaps that's what I have issue with. It's like servitude, he wasn't the maid, he was her husband.

... and therefore she chose to marry him. You don't marry someone just because they're not Desi! Lucy must have loved the guy, in some way at least, and I doubt that it was just because he was bland, or because she knew he wouldn't be the whirlwind she'd just divorced. It does seem unfair to knock the guy, you're right That Other Fan. None of us know what she saw in Gary, or why she chose to marry him, but we have to assume that she liked him a lot. So maybe, all you people who claim to like Lucy so much, if you'd actually met Gary you'd have liked him too!

Originally posted by That Other Fan

Not really defending Gary as “challenging popular opinion.”

Whatever you prefer. :lol: (your words, not mine)


Originally posted by That Other Fan
"Serving a purpose", perhaps that's what I have issue with. It's like servitude, he wasn't the maid, he was her husband.

Whoa….you are reading waaaaaay too much into this. One little word and, in your ongoing attempt to portray me as president of Gary Bashers Unite!, you proceeded to twist things around completely to make it seem as if I am further trying to insult Gary by putting him on the same level as the maid!?! This is supposed a fun message board debate, not a courtroom battle.




Originally posted by That Other Fan

Not really defending Gary as “challenging popular opinion.” It seems a lot of individuals (you included) come from the position of, “he wasn’t brilliant like Desi, and I prefer Desi, therefore I can belittle Gary as some guy with the fortune to marry Lucille Ball.” Not really fair to Gary or Lucy, but no, I wouldn’t consider this “defending Gary.”


Yes, and then you “write it off” by saying, well the only perspective they could possibly come from is that of the "stepchildren". They only defend him because he was the mediator in the household.

In essence, yes you are “writing off" their comments.



Numerous...Many...More than one....a handful of episodes....Whatever you prefer. :lol: He was there, and definitely provides great insight into Gary’s role on the show and somewhat into their relationship.


"Serving a purpose", perhaps that's what I have issue with. It's like servitude, he wasn't the maid, he was her husband.


In my previous post, I tried to convey that both of Lucy's husbands – Gary and Desi – each had some great qualities and some not-so-great qualities. I am very aware of both sides of the issue.

You began this thread with a question: why do so many people dislike Gary? I answered you by making references to some of Gary’s poorer qualities, while keeping in mind that Gary was the man who made Lucy happy during their years together, among other good things that could be said about him. I attempted to give you what you wanted – an answer.

But it is quite obvious that, even before you wrote the question down, you already had a set answer in your mind: everybody loves Desi, therefore everybody hates Gary.

I’ve basically already defended myself to the same old stuff before. It’s getting a little repetitive. You accused me of writing off certain quotes/facts and I tried to explain to you why I wasn’t writing them off. You came back with a “Yes you are.” You accused me of ‘belittling Gary’ and I tried to answer that by explaining that I am only trying to present one side of the issue to answer the question that was put forth. You came back with a “No, you’re not.” So it is obvious to me that you don’t believe anything that I have to say; in your mind I am a one-sided individual who stubbornly refuses to see the good in Lucy’s second husband because her famous, first husband was better. All I can say to that is ‘you’re wrong’ even though I don’t think you’ll believe it anyway. So maybe it's better if we agree to disagree.

Whoa….you are reading waaaaaay too much into this. One little word and, in your ongoing attempt to portray me as president of Gary Bashers Unite!, you proceeded to twist things around completely to make it seem as if I am further trying to insult Gary by putting him on the same level as the maid!?!

I simply expressed that “serving his purpose” gave off “servitude” vibes. It was a suggestion that you should consider rephrasing that because he wasn’t in servitude to Lucy, he was her husband.

Actually, a very civil remark. Though, considering the hostile nature this thread has taken, I guess it’s understandable that you took it the wrong way.

Let me be the first to say...deal with it, you “Gary Hater”!!!!.:mad:

Now that I would categorize as an attempt to portray you as “president of Gary Bashers Unite” :lol:


I answered you by making references to some of Gary’s poorer qualities,

And in the sprit of "debate" I challenged your point, bringing up different comments that provide a different view of the things you mentioned, but instead of acknowledging that maybe the image that continues to be portrayed as "the truth" isn't so "cut and dry". You disregarded or “wrote” off my comments.

Oh wait, you didn’t disregard them, it’s just that “none of those quotes really, really said that Gary Morton had Lucy’s best interest at heart” not to your “satisfaction” anyway.

It’s not that you are writing off Lucie and Desi Jr’s comments, it’s just that they are biased and their perspective can only come from that he was their “step-father”, you can’t put much into what they say. How would they know what type of impact Gary had on the set? They were only present for most of shows run (Desi Jr three seasons, Lucie the entire run). Day in and Day out, on the set to see just who “ran the ship”. They couldn’t possibly have a real opinion on what Gary’s “intentions” were in regards to being in Lucy’s life. They only spent more time with him than anyone else besides Lucy (in that time period).

When you try ever so hard to explain that you would never “write off” certain quotes/facts, I should have never responded with “Yes you are”. I can’t even comprehend why it crossed my mind.


So maybe it's better if we agree to disagree.

I think that’s a good idea. It will affect my post total, but I’ll sacrifice a few posts for the greater good of tranquility among my fellow Lucy fanatics.

Okay, first off, I know Lucy and Gary had to of loved each other..
But I don't think it was really a love that Lucy and Desi displayed to each other. Like in the later years after they were divorced, when someone told Lucy that her husband was on the phone, she asked, "Which one?"

OK where do I begin???

I used to be an avid Gary supporter. I actually was gonna write a book about how happy Lucy and Gary's marriage was. Then the bomb was dropped and I became disappointed when I discovered Gary wasn't exactly the "angel" I thought he was. In Lucy's later years, he was more desolate in Lucy's life, always out playing golf. Yes Lucy respected that, as it was his hobby, but he was gone all the time golfing, dinner engagements with his millionaire/ nightclub cronies, and he gave Lucy really bad business advice. Life with Lucy for instance. She really did not want to do another series, but he suaded her into doing it, knowing she wasn't in the best of health, and had been in serious depression sice she found out Desi was dying of cancer. He saw dollar signs later on, probably knew she would die soon anyways, so why not help the process along....by encouraging her to smoke and eat salty foods knowing she had high Blood Pressure and heart problems.. I could go on and on about his all day....but I am just gonna leave it there for now. Sadly at one time I could have had a good argument against what I have just posted, but what a fool I was. Ya live ya learn.

Like someone told me yesterday, if we only knew half the REAL story, most of us would look like fools and sometimes do as we have been fed bull by publicists for so long. However i do not include Tom Watson in that group because he's protecting her legacy and image even after she's gone, i always refer to the old time publicists of the OLD days in Hollywood who fed all of us bull on top of bull all the time.

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
He saw dollar signs later on, probably knew she would die soon anyways, so why not help the process along....by encouraging her to smoke and eat salty foods knowing she had high Blood Pressure and heart problems.

Take it easy, Lucille, that's rather uncalled for!

Well, how would you interpret that Mickey? They were sitting at a table having dinner, Paula Stewart, Gary and Lucy. Lucy wants salt and Paula says no, because of her high blood pressure, but Gary says, ah go ahead, let her have it. Explain to me which is better, he lets her have it because she's miserable at that point of her life, so why not let her have the ONE thing she can still have, food the way she likes it, or do you think in term of, BUT THIS WILL KILL HER FASTER, and stand up to her and say Lucy, you can't have that, it will kill you. It's a very good debate subject. And, way deep down in the dark recesses of his mind, Mr Ball HAD to have that thought once in a while about his domineering wife, oh, when she goes, i inherit money and i can do what i want, i will be free, we're not saying he didn't love her or anything, we're just saying it's a normal reaction, considering the circumstances they were in at the time. She still holds him responsable for the Life with Lucy fiasco, she had a stroke a year before, he cancelled her nurse because it was too expensive . . .

Maybe I'm not as cynical as I thought. You, on the other hand...!

I don't know. My grandfather is ninety five, and he's supposed to be cutting down on his salt and sugar. Does that mean I'm trying to kill him off when I give him sugar in his cup of tea anyway? It's the way he likes it and he'll be damned if he's going to change his ways now. Okay, I know - Lucy was a lot younger. But maybe Gary was thinking it's just this once, they're out for a meal, it's supposed to be a bit special... Don't know, do we.

I'm British, Splain, it's my in-built sense of fair play :) Don't suspect a guy of murder by salt when he's not here to defend himself.

But Michael, it wasn't one meal, it was every meal. AND when your wife is worth millions that you live off of, you don't cancel a nurse because it's too spensive as Ricky would say. Of course, you also don't date a couple of weeks after you store her ashes away either! I told you this is a good debate, and i love your answer about your grandfather, perfect example of what i mean. When you have nothing left to live for, you want to be able to cheat now and then, so one way around that is to make sure she has taken her medication, then you say, ok, the pills will counteract it, but for the rest of the day, you'll have to watch what you consume. Of course, those are the duties of a nurse, and cheapo Marino cancelled her, because of the money.

Weird. Surely he can't have hated her though, or really wished her dead? If her kids still like him, and she liked him enough to stay married all those years, he can't have been a genuinely bad guy?

:) I feel like I've misbehaved, 'cause you've just called me 'Michael'! :lol:

As a Lucy-Desi fan, I don't support Gary one bit! ugh...

Yes Splain you are absolutly correct, I almost forgot about that he did fire that nurse. From my read up on him, he definitely was Mr. Slick.

Yes Lucy may have been set in her ways as far as eating salty foods, smoking and her scotch, but Gary knew what doctors said about her doing that stuff and he deliberately let her. Yes she may have put up a fight had he told herno, but if you love someone enough you help them and try to keep them around.He knew she wasn't up to physique when it came todoing Life with Lucy but he over encouraged her, she really didn't want to do it. AGain he deliberately pushed her...maybe all he could see was green when he looked at Lucy.

Like Paula said, they were having trouble at the end, i would add to that, was Lucy going to go through another divorce, at her age, when it was just a question of TIME anyway? And leaving your wife, you's had a stroke a year earlier, for weeks at a time so you can play more golf. AND, stopping this woman who lived to work from doing a Broadway show that was all planned, but he got her out of it so he wouldn't have to relocate in New York City for six months and again go without the true love of his life, G O L F ! Instead he got her a TV movie on the same subject matter as the Broadway show, but she nearly died doing a film set in winter in New York's heat!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Like Paula said, they were having trouble at the end, i would add to that, was Lucy going to go through another divorce, at her age, when it was just a question of TIME anyway? And leaving your wife, you's had a stroke a year earlier, for weeks at a time so you can play more golf. AND, stopping this woman who lived to work from doing a Broadway show that was all planned, but he got her out of it so he wouldn't have to relocate in New York City for six months and again go without the true love of his life, G O L F ! Instead he got her a TV movie on the same subject matter as the Broadway show, but she nearly died doing a film set in winter in New York's heat!

Poor Lucy!! I didnt even know half of these stories about Gary until I heard them from Jen and you Claude.. these are awful I cannot believe he did this toher!!

And even a really bad one we can't discuss on the boards, but it's just a rumor at this point, need more evidence!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Like Paula said, they were having trouble at the end, i would add to that, was Lucy going to go through another divorce, at her age, when it was just a question of TIME anyway? And leaving your wife, you's had a stroke a year earlier, for weeks at a time so you can play more golf. AND, stopping this woman who lived to work from doing a Broadway show that was all planned, but he got her out of it so he wouldn't have to relocate in New York City for six months and again go without the true love of his life, G O L F ! Instead he got her a TV movie on the same subject matter as the Broadway show, but she nearly died doing a film set in winter in New York's heat!


Splain, that's one side of the story. As has been proven in this thread over and over and over and over again there many sides to a story and the way things are perceived. Lee may have viewed the situation one way, while another person there may have saw things differently (EX. Cleo comments on Gary's intentions and what he did in business vs Lucie and Desi Jr comments ). Fortunately we do have his experiences and his side to what happen, but let’s not forget, It’s “his side”.

Hey, remember i'm the one who keeps saying we have to take into account the fact that he was Mr Ball for 28 years and always at her side protecting her, and she almost never said anything negative about him in all those years. The one major fight they had was over the flood in Palm Springs ruining the house and he had it all redecorated and changed without checking with her, they both said that was the only time he ever slept on the couch. AND she just had everything redone exactly the way it was before he touched anything! Yes, money talks and bull**** walks!

Referring to him as "Mr. Ball" doesn't really help your "Hey, I can see it from both sides" argument, now does it?


Yes, money talks and bull**** walks!

And I'm tad suspicious of just what your trying to infer here, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. lol

Originally posted by That Other Fan
Referring to him as "Mr. Ball" doesn't really help your "Hey, I can see it from both sides" argument, now does it?




And I'm tad suspicious of just what your trying to infer here, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. lol


Why are you being rude? They are just putting their feelings towards the discussion..

I just have a hard time vocalizing what i think properly, English is my second language. Calling him Mr Ball is saying that i sympathize with what he and Desi had to go through, however big their accomplishments, they would always be known by some people as Mr Ball, that was a pro Gary comment! And the Money talks comment was anti Lucy meaning she was the one paying the bills in that house, so she just ripped out the new stuff put in by Gary and redid everything, a waste of money, but showing us where they both stood in that relationhip! She just redid everything HER WAY, because she had the means to do it, imagine what it's like for HIM to have everybody KNOW that story, it's a comment about who wore the pants there!

Ok, i've eaten now, so let's go! Desi was a star with very limited roles, so when she saved his career by insisting he be on I Love Lucy, she did it to keep their marriage going, but got someone to take care of making her look her best for the rest of her life. Yes, he would have kept going on the road for a while, then eventually, he would have dissapeared, because Latinos back then did not exist, she gave him the longevity with their mutual success on the TV show. He gave her advice and knew how to present her, he knew good material and he more importantly rose to the challenge in front of them, and in the process, with her talent and his guiding force, they created the most popular tv show of all time. Now, whatever his reasons, he DID do what Lucy and even HE admitted, whatever he built up, he had to tear down. I'm not an analyst, so i don't know why. But Lucy was the one who was good with money, she was the one that had the power and she did build him up in the world's eyes. She did that with Gary too, later on. Lucy never would have had the guts to buy RKO, then again, advisers would haev told her NOT TO! They never would have let her sell the series for under 5 million to buy an old run down studio. BUT, to be fair to Desi, it was HE who asked her to join him in that endeavor to compete in teh indutry with the other major players, and i'm sure deep down, even if she never even admitted it publicly, part of her really enjoyed being a studio head. That could even have been the reason he bought the studio in the first place, to show them what he could do. The problem is, after the novelty wore off and the booze took over, he couldn't and she had to SAVE the place before she sold it for a lot more money, but not before she sank all the profits of The Lucy show and wasted them the way he had with I Love Lucy and The Lucy Desi comedy hour. It is no secret in Hollywood that the money is in rerun rights, they could have made 100 million with only one series. Anyway, she finally learned her lesson by the time Here's Lucy came along. But this business that he was a genius is bull, she had to say that to elevate him in the world's eyes. He did not invent the three camera technique, he refined it and also took the credit for many other things developed or done by other people, notably Jess Oppenheimer, notice, HE kept his part of the show till he died and HIS son enjoys the rewards of his having done that! Unlike Lucie and Desi jr!

Now as for Desi being in Jamestown or Celoron, well, true their success with that show was a mutual thing, they both brought something really special to that project that will never be duplicated. He deserves any tribute he gets, but she deserves a lot more. Jen is absolutely correct about the fact that Lucie builds up her dad as an equal and he's not, this is a fact. I hope to God it's not the fact that mom preferred Desi Jr and Desi was closer to his daughter because i hate that when a parent shows preferrential feelings towards one child. But, it would explain a lot. I shall now forever refer to this condition as the Smothers Brothers syndrome. Like Tom Smothers, Lucie might be going around thinking her mother liked Desi jr best. Obviously she has not watched her mother tear up just looking at her perform or going on for hours on talk shows about how talented she was or what a great mother she was. AND like someone mentionned, Lucy risked her professional life, and nothing mattered more to her than her career, with first having her husband perform on the first series, and then later on, her own kids got their experience performing on her last series, nepotism was in this woman's blood, and she had to care about her family to risk career suicide by insisting they perform with her before they established themselves and gained the experience they sorely needed. Sit through a Here's Lucy episode and try not to cringe at the early shows with their lack of experience. I was shocked to learn that Lucy kept the show going just to establish them in the business, and she succeeded at that like she did at everything else she attempted, it's a shame Lucie can't seem to acknowledge that, especially at the Museum, where 14 years after her death, Lucy's legacy lives on, sometimes in spite of her daughter. YES, it must get very annoying to want to rekindle your career, and everybody keeps asking about your mother, or father, or even brother, but you have to play the cards you're dealt. In this case particularly, the jackpot is going to HER anyway!

Can anybody tell me who That Other Fan is, i have the feeling we've tango'd before and i dun't mean the dance! LOL!

Originally posted by *ShortCake*
Why are you being rude? They are just putting their feelings towards the discussion..

Rude? lol

This thread has become so hostile that people are now mistaking alittle sarcasm for "rudeness".

Considering the course this thread has taken I guess it is imparitive that I include a "J/K" after every comment I make to ensure people understand that I'm only joking.:lol:


Can anybody tell me who That Other Fan is, i have the feeling we've tango'd before and i dun't mean the dance! LOL!

LOL, put a "Lucy" after the "Other" and guess who.....:confused:

:lol:

I would think it was pretty obvious, to anyone who posted at Lucytalk and this board as well just who I am, but I guess some of us need alittle more...uh...time to figure things out than others.

---> J/K <--- *Making sure it's known that I'm only joking, so that there will be no mistakes* lol


Seriously, I just assumed you knew that I posted at LucyTalk. I knew your username at that board, so I just assumed you knew mine. I guess I should never assume (just as I should never assume that everyone will get the joke,lol).

Well..sometimes I think maybe Lucy was or seemed to like Desi more because I've read that she thought he was so talented and was always trying to promote his career more, and she didn't think Lucie wouldn't make it anywhere...

Lucilel Ball never showed any favoritism to her children. That is so a lie. Lucy went to Desi Jr.'s ball games, and She went to Lucie's plays and on almost every interview I see, it is always about "How proud I am of my children" Not Child, not Desi not Lucie, but both. When Lucy's grandchildren were being born Lucy bragged about them and how proud she was of Lucie for being such a good mother. Lucy helped Desi with his drug and Alcohol problems and stood behind him, because that was her baby and she wanted him to get better. Even knowing her fame, and how it was all over the tabloids, her children came first. Maybe Lucie doesn't see it because she wasn never facing that problem, but I am sure if she was Lucy would stand behind her just as strong as she did Little Desi.

Lucy was a good mother, for as famous as she was and she did have a career, she instilled them with values and Love, she didn't spoil them because she knew what would come of that. She knew what she had growing up, and now she had everything, but she appreciated it, because she knew how hard she had to work for it. She didn't want everything to come so easy for them taht they forget the virtues of life. She wanted them to to appreciate what they get out of life. If everything is handed to you, you don't appreciate those thing....but until their gone and you don't have them, then only then will you learn. I am learning that now the hard way. It is not at all easy. I came from everything, and now I am having to learn how to struggle to survive and beleive me u it is not at all easy. but I can tell you being without certain people in my life and with out my car for the past two months, has made things extremely difficult for me, but now I am discovering taht abscence really does make the heart grow fonder.
Lucy didn't doll out cash for her kids, because she saw what her husbands did with the money she gave them. Yes Desi and Lucy invested in their beautiful ranch home together, and built the studio and invested hugely into that. But Desi had to take his money and go to horseraces and play poker, and get hookers and booze, which clouded up his mind. She didn't want that to befall on her kids. She wanted them to know the value of a dollar, and how far it can go, so she gave them a standard allowance. She didn't want to give them all this money so they can blow it on booze, a cheap good time, and bad investments. She wanted them to make good for themselves and this is the only way,but correct way of doing it. Daddy showed them to live up life and soak it up and live for the day. But Lucy knew the importance of having a plan. Gary made bad investments, he bought cars, and jewelry and basically invested more so in himself than anything else. He wanted to show himself off and say hey "I am Lucy Ball' s husband I can get anything I want" I think personally she should have alloted Gary so much money, and not to increase it all the time...granted he did work for her at the studio and had a salry, but she was overly generous with it. But I guess in taht situation, Lucy felt like she was in "catch-22" situation. She was by no means Dumb I am sure she saw the writing on the wall as plain as day, but she didn't want to admit to failure, so if making him happy meant giving him happy then so be it.
Back to Lucie and Desi. She gave them an adequet allowance, now she was seeing they were taking an avid interest in acting, so she gave them a shot. Knowing she would be talked about, I guess she figured, if I can give them a start, maybe they can keep the ball rolling and get their own careers going, so they can get out on their own.

So it would be unfair to say that Lucy played favortism because that is a very big falseyhood.
As for Gary she just exhausted her efforts on teh first husband...she personally felt like a failure because the divorce happened, but agin, it was not in her control. Lucy could have done everything possible to try to get him to settle down, but it is up to him to change Lucy couldn't make him do it, even knowing she likes things within her control, trying to get another person to change is never in any one' control but themselves.
By the time her second husband came around, it started off ok, he liked to make her laugh and that is all she wanted at that point in her life, but he got too greedy for his own good, forgot he wanted the world handed to him on a silver platter because he was Lucy's husband, he saw how popular and fluential she was and made money off of it. Getting bigger salaries, making contract deals for Lucy and coercing her into doing them even went it meant hurting her health, well, being, or reputation. He didn't care about that, just so Gary was Ok, and hey if something happend to her he would just rake in the profits. But lucy saw it coming. I think the only reason she kept that marriage together was for her own sanctity. She didn't want to presume herself as a failure again. Even though us fans know better....she wasn't the failure.

There has to be an explanation for Lucie's thing toward her mother doesn't there? Lucy wasn't the perfect mother from what I've read and watched on the home movies. Desi was a great father, but he wasn't a good example toward his kids.
You don't know what really went on between them so how can you say you're 100% sure that Lucy didn't show any favoritism? I'm not saying she did though.. we just don't know..

Well then how can you say Desi was a good father to his kids? Just like every red blooded Lucy Fan, that is why we read, watch documentaries, attend festivals and talk to people that knew them and ask questions.

That is how you learn, You really cannot beleive EVERYTHING you read in books, per author's saying, but reading what the people who knew them have to say, listening to their interviews, talking to them one on one, or at a forum at the convention. You learn by posing questions, to verify things and get straighter answers.
From people I have personally talked to and heard of they all say Lucy was a good mom. Desi had this tendency to be overly generous. See it all roots back to background. Lucy had come up the hard way. Her family growing up was almost impovershed, it was a struggle for them to survive and they had to make do with what they had in order to survive. Desi, was born with that proverbial silver spoon in his mouth. He was given cars, money, he was taught to go out and have fun with women, he had three houses etc. Then it was all taken out from underneath him. Lucy never knew that kind of lifestyle, until her later success in showbiz, when she could actually afford those things, but even then she learnd what moderation meant from her memories as a youngin. Desi once he got success with Lucy in I Love Lucy, he wanted horses and retreats out on the beach and boats and lavish vacation, and to be back in the high life again.
Lucy wanted to teach her kids monetary responsibility and worth, so she didn't hand them everything, Desi on the otherhand wanted the kids to have a taste of the good life, so he gave them stuff like that. Of course as a kid who are you going to side with? The parent who says" straighten your room and eat everything on your plate and you will have your weekly allowance of 5 dollars? or the one that says, "You can straighten your room later, if you don't want to eat your broccoli, that is OK, You can still have your ice cream"? Even though the parent teaching the child the responsibility has teh best intrests for the child, the child is going to play up to the one giving the ice cream. Lucy was a strict disciplinarian, she tolerated no crap, and yes if the kids were in the wrong she punished them by sending them to their room, unplugging stereoes and tv sets and taking toys away until they learn their lesson. But you have to teach kids these things or else they won't learn. I wished I had been taught those lessons growing up, I would be on the right track in my life right now if I did. I am learning it the hard way, and for all you who are at the young age out there, i can only give you this advice, and if you ever listen to advice now would be a good time to do so. LISTEN to your parents, even though they may not be saying things you want to hear, UNDERSTAND that when they do punish you by taking things away from you or repremending you, they are only doing it for your own good so you will have a way in life and a good hearty lesson fo rlater on, so you can avoid what I am going through right now!!!!

Lucie should be overly thankful to her mom. She taught her those lessons, Lucie is by no means having to want for anything, she has a career in show biz, that brings her as much money as her mom left her, she has three kids, a husband of almost 20 years, her mom helped get her to that point. I don't think Lucie had to struggle a day in her life. If her mom didn't lover her, I don't think she would be where she is at all. She did love her, but she gave her tough love. Maybe Lucy wasn't there all the time she did have a career, and she couldn't help who she was, she was already "Lucy" by the time the kids came around, when you have things going for you, you don't just quit, you continue on, because it means good living for you and your family. Granted Lucy did it for teh fact that she loved what she was doing, so what??? It made her happy. She still had time for her kids though, time to instill these values in them, and spend time on vacations, and they were in Palm Springs EVERY WEEKEND, so don't tell me Lucy never had any quality time for them, because even in their home movies you see Lucy playing with those kids. But she was a career woman, couldn't be with them all the time, but did make time for them on weekends and for school plays.

Todays' women, can I ask you, those who are mothers, I know would liek to spend time with your kids, and I am sure you make every effort possible to do so, be it on weekends days off, evenings, you still make time for them don't you? And you work not because YOU want to, but to make a better life for yourself and yourkids. Yes Lucy had a good thing going she loved what she did she did it for the fact making others happy made her happy. That is what she did to make herself happy. We all owe it to ourelves, to do something for ourselves to make ourselves happy.

I think the skeptics have to look at it from thses perspectives as well. .

That is where i see Lucie being somewhat selfish.

Whoa..slow down there hun, you could write a book! lol

The reason Desi seemed to spoil his kids is because he knew that he and Lucy didn't get to spend much time with them! He wanted to make his moments with them good..I admire him for that. Lucie and Desi Jr said so themselves and other people! Instead of Lucy coming home and spending quality time with them, what did she do? More work, work, work! I don't care if you're some big Lucy historian, you don't know everything ..and neither do I..
*takes deep breath* I don't know why I'm saying all this, it's a losing battle to a person who WORSHIPS JUST Lucille Ball! *sighs*

I understand Desi wanting to make the time he had with his kids enjoyable. I think a lot of fathers who are divorced do that. But, Lucy's intentions with being tough on the kids and disciplining them were good too. She wanted them to grow up to be good people, as did Desi I'm sure. I think Lucy did the best she could, and when she was really strict or got mad with the kids, Lucie has said it was probably just her mother's fear that she wasn't doing the right thing. Both Lucy and Desi made mistakes, they were human like the rest of us. Maybe Desi was the "more fun" parent. But I think Lucy really looked out for her kids and cared about them. She did what she thought was best for them, did the best she could. After all, Lucy was starring in a hit TV series, running a studio, AND raising two kids! When she could've done something differently, I'm sure she would have if she thought or knew it was the right thing to do for her kids.

I am not a Lucy Historian. Never said I was. I just know a lot. Maybe more than some people....then again I know people that know a helluva lot more than I do.
I have done my research, and I have talked to people, watched documentaries over and over and over, and read and re-read books.

I don't even think you have read half of what I posted either. Lucy did spend quality time with them. Every weekend they went to Palm Springs. There are even home movies of Lucy playing with her kids. She helped them with their home work, went to ball games, school plays and pageants, they took vacations every year. They ate dinner together every nite. She was there with them whether you want to beleive that or not.

I am so sick of seeing people pick up for Desi. Make excuses for him or tolerations.

Lucy was a damn good mom, she knew what she was doing; she started young. She looked after her Brother and her "sister" . Kept up a house. She basically came up the hard way. Nothing came easy for Lucy.
Desi came up the easy way, lived the hard way for a while, but when he was back in the money he wanted to live high on the hog. Lucy did not want the kids to learn about life with extravegances, and free gifts, and big allowances and handed down cars. She wanted them to learn responsibility so they could live well later on. She did spend time with them, just as much time as Desi did. Remember when they were together they wewre both working together all the time and Grandma and the Nanny had to look after the kids during work hours. They spent the weeknds with the kids in Del Mar and Palm Springs and that was their quality time. Then they split up and Lucy had them mostly during the weeks and traded off weekends with Desi. But they both had equal time with them, not to mention Lucy had the kids on her shows and she spent time there with them, even though it was professional, she spent time with them and nurtured them....See that is the key word there "NURTURED" . Desi spoiled them, and Lucy nurtured them. Unfortunately it is easier to win a kid over with lots of ice cream than it is discipline life lessons and broccoli. But Lucy wanted what she thought was best for her kids and wanted them to make good later on and life and not fall victim to wasting money on bad stuff. Desi Jr. was leaning that way for a while, because he watched his dad drink and fool around and ...hey like fatehr like son. But look who stood behind little Desi when the chips were down. Lucy did. She went to meetings with him and she supported his recovery then jumped on the bandwagon for The Partnership for a DRUG FREE America. I am sure tha if Lucie was in that predicament she would have done the same for her as well. I guess Lucy's life lessons and discipline struck a nerve somewhere in them because, they are living fine now. Lucy left them some money and they have their own careers, and in good shape. Unfortunately one is spending more time being bitter when they should be grateful.

BTW I am a Lucille Ball Lover,,,,and proud of it. I Love me some Lucy. So I guess when it comes to defending Lucy I am there all the way, and yes you are right, it is rather difficult to keep up the pace because I will go on and on as long as it takes, to defend Lucy, till I get my point across.

Originally posted by crazyredhead
As a Lucy-Desi fan, I don't support Gary one bit! ugh...

But you support Desi?

Okay...calm down folks or this thread will be history.

But you support Desi?

YEAH..and proud of it too! I'm an I LOVE LUCY fan! What are you, only a LUCY SHOW fan? I don't watch THe Lucy Show, because I'm a strict, Lucy-Desi fan! :)

Sorry dawsongirl! >.< I don't mean for things to get all heated up like this, I'm just trying to defend..oh and I agree with you MagsLoves Lucy..I didn't say Lucy wasn't a good mother, I admire her levelheadness! lol

Oh, by the way, thanks dawsongirl for what you said in that other topic and for closing it, it was getting kinda annoying..ugh..

By the way LUCILLE BALL, WHO said all Desi did was spoil his kids? You can't believe everything the books say do you?

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
I am not a Lucy Historian. Never said I was. I just know a lot. Maybe more than some people....then again I know people that know a helluva lot more than I do.
I have done my research, and I have talked to people, watched documentaries over and over and over, and read and re-read books.

I don't even think you have read half of what I posted either. Lucy did spend quality time with them. Every weekend they went to Palm Springs. There are even home movies of Lucy playing with her kids. She helped them with their home work, went to ball games, school plays and pageants, they took vacations every year. They ate dinner together every nite. She was there with them whether you want to beleive that or not.

I am so sick of seeing people pick up for Desi. Make excuses for him or tolerations.

Lucy was a damn good mom, she knew what she was doing; she started young. She looked after her Brother and her "sister" . Kept up a house. She basically came up the hard way. Nothing came easy for Lucy.
Desi came up the easy way, lived the hard way for a while, but when he was back in the money he wanted to live high on the hog. Lucy did not want the kids to learn about life with extravegances, and free gifts, and big allowances and handed down cars. She wanted them to learn responsibility so they could live well later on. She did spend time with them, just as much time as Desi did. Remember when they were together they wewre both working together all the time and Grandma and the Nanny had to look after the kids during work hours. They spent the weeknds with the kids in Del Mar and Palm Springs and that was their quality time. Then they split up and Lucy had them mostly during the weeks and traded off weekends with Desi. But they both had equal time with them, not to mention Lucy had the kids on her shows and she spent time there with them, even though it was professional, she spent time with them and nurtured them....See that is the key word there "NURTURED" . Desi spoiled them, and Lucy nurtured them. Unfortunately it is easier to win a kid over with lots of ice cream than it is discipline life lessons and broccoli. But Lucy wanted what she thought was best for her kids and wanted them to make good later on and life and not fall victim to wasting money on bad stuff. Desi Jr. was leaning that way for a while, because he watched his dad drink and fool around and ...hey like fatehr like son. But look who stood behind little Desi when the chips were down. Lucy did. She went to meetings with him and she supported his recovery then jumped on the bandwagon for The Partnership for a DRUG FREE America. I am sure tha if Lucie was in that predicament she would have done the same for her as well. I guess Lucy's life lessons and discipline struck a nerve somewhere in them because, they are living fine now. Lucy left them some money and they have their own careers, and in good shape. Unfortunately one is spending more time being bitter when they should be grateful.

BTW I am a Lucille Ball Lover,,,,and proud of it. I Love me some Lucy. So I guess when it comes to defending Lucy I am there all the way, and yes you are right, it is rather difficult to keep up the pace because I will go on and on as long as it takes, to defend Lucy, till I get my point across.

I agree... when someone is attacking Lucy when she cant be here to defend herself.. then I will do the defending. Its nice to have help though usually its just me and Claude defending her!!

And i'll be here to my dying day doing it with every breath i have, to counterattack the negative fabricated crap the revisionists thrive on. Is it HOT in here, or is it just me? Is it hot in here to you Joe?

Originally posted by SPLAIN
And i'll be here to my dying day doing it with every breath i have, to counterattack the negative fabricated crap the revisionists thrive on. Is it HOT in here, or is it just me? Is it hot in here to you Joe?

:lol: lol it is a little warm in here!!!

Originally posted by *ShortCake*
:lol: lol it is a little warm in here!!!

It must be the lights! :lol:

I agree... when someone is attacking Lucy when she cant be here to defend herself.. then I will do the defending. Its nice to have help though usually its just me and Claude defending her!!

I'm with ya. ;)

Originally posted by MagsLovesLucy
It must be the lights! :lol:



I'm with ya. ;)

Good Deal!!!! We can always use one more Lucy Supporter!!!

Originally posted by *ShortCake*
Good Deal!!!! We can always use one more Lucy Supporter!!!

I :heart: Lucy! :D

Originally posted by MagsLovesLucy
I :heart: Lucy! :D

Me too!!! Shes the best!! :D I dont care what anyone else thinks ;).

Originally posted by *ShortCake*
Me too!!! Shes the best!! :D I dont care what anyone else thinks ;).

Hehe. :D I admire Desi too though, as well as lovin' Lucy. :D I agree with ya on that one, Lucy rocks. :happyface

Listen DawsonGirl, i'm asking for a special favor here, i know you closed that OTHER thread, and i hate that power that you people have, i must be yealous or somethin, anyhoo, i would like to be allowed just one comment, Jerry Lewis is a buffoon and it figures the French in France worship the ground he walks on, but the rest of the world thinks he's certainly not in the same league as Lucy. As all the critics have said all along, Lucy is compared to Chaplin, another true genius like her, not a second rate putz like Lewis!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Listen DawsonGirl, i'm asking for a special favor here, i know you closed that OTHER thread, and i hate that power that you people have, i must be yealous or somethin, anyhoo, i would like to be allowed just one comment, Jerry Lewis is a buffoon and it figures the French in France worship the ground he walks on, but the rest of the world thinks he's certainly not in the same league as Lucy. As all the critics have said all along, Lucy is compared to Chaplin, another true genius like her, not a second rate putz like Lewis!


:clap: Sure.. Jerry made some good movies with Dean Martin.. but really they werent exactly amazing. I cant even believe that Dawsongirl would compare her to Jerry Lewis either. I thought she was a fan of Lucy??. i am one of those annoying die hard blood red Lucille Ball fans..so dont mind me.

I would defend Lucy if she was being attacked, but she's never attacked! :lol:

Originally posted by crazyredhead
I would defend Lucy if she was being attacked, but she's never attacked! :lol:

on this board she is.

how??

people are just giving the facts..

Ash means the distorted opinions that appear as facts! LOL! Collapses in his chair and thinks, i hope that's it for the Lucy bashing! LOL!

Well then let's call it quits on the Desi bashing too.

:wave:

Incidentally, since I was one of the people comparing Lucy to Jerry Lewis, let me elaborate. They're both physical comedians, and I was trying to think of somebody else who played that sort of role within a comedy double act. Lucy was funnier than Jerry Lewis. No question. Jerry annoys the hell out of me, although I do very much enjoy the films he made with Dino. It's just that people seem amazed when I say I thought Dino was funnier, just the way that people seem amazed when I say I like Desi better. Hence Lucy and Jerry Lewis comparisons. Jerry's in a league with Frank Spencer or Norman Wisdom, IMHO - terrific for small children, annoying for most other people. Lucy has a far more wide ranging appeal.

I dont think I have ever bashed Desi...........

Neither have I! But i love Desi more as a human being to be admired for certain things rather than the distorted picture we have of him as a performer or business man! I think Desi might have admired Maurice Chevalier because they had so much in common, both were legendary performers that had more charm and sex appeal than talent as singers or actors. Even Desi's exaggerated reactions on the tv shows were made at the time because people had a better chance of seing them on those tiny screens back then, sometimes, just six inches, not giant screens like today, and i cannot imagine the laughs being as BIG without those very exaggerated reactions of his, they complimented her exaggerated buffoonery also. But, both of them had many magic moments that seem so natural, you can just study them and sit there in awe, of course, their being married in real life might have helped in that department. No wonder, no other couple ever captured the world's heart like they did. I always loved the quote that said we felt like we were eavesdropping on the Ricardos, that one fits very well.

*bows*

- Just over 100 post. Which adds significantly to the post total of the entire forum.

- I've added significantly to my personal post total

- And discussed a topic that really needed to be discussed among the Lucy fans.


Mission Accomplished. *bows again*


You don't have to thank me......Ok, yes you do. :D


Joke. People. Joke.

Calm down, "don't get your britches in a bunch" lol

You sound like you could be in your own little comedy series one day, or maybe you are already? LOL! Can i be a supporting player? I can do a MEAN Fred! Percy Livermore? King Cat Walsh? Arthur?

Originally posted by crazyredhead
YEAH..and proud of it too! I'm an I LOVE LUCY fan! What are you, only a LUCY SHOW fan? I don't watch THe Lucy Show, because I'm a strict, Lucy-Desi fan! :)

Sorry dawsongirl! >.< I don't mean for things to get all heated up like this, I'm just trying to defend..oh and I agree with you MagsLoves Lucy..I didn't say Lucy wasn't a good mother, I admire her levelheadness! lol

Oh, by the way, thanks dawsongirl for what you said in that other topic and for closing it, it was getting kinda annoying..ugh..

No prob...wasn't your fault anyway. :)

Originally posted by *ShortCake*
:clap: Sure.. Jerry made some good movies with Dean Martin.. but really they werent exactly amazing. I cant even believe that Dawsongirl would compare her to Jerry Lewis either. I thought she was a fan of Lucy??. i am one of those annoying die hard blood red Lucille Ball fans..so dont mind me.

:confused: That was not me that compared her to Jerry Lewis.

Originally posted by crazyredhead
YEAH..and proud of it too! I'm an I LOVE LUCY fan! What are you, only a LUCY SHOW fan? I don't watch THe Lucy Show, because I'm a strict, Lucy-Desi fan! :)

No dearie, I do NOT only watch the LUCY SHOW :rolleyes: . As a matter of fact I like "I Love Lucy" the best but it's not because of Desi Arnaz. I won't say that he wasn't an asset but I do believe that it still would have been just as popular with Richard Denning as her husband. Listen to "My Favorite Husband", it's hilarious. That is what became "I Love Lucy" and although it is my favorite I still like Lucy's other shows too.

Originally posted by *ShortCake*
I thought she was a fan of Lucy

So did I.

No dearie, I do NOT only watch the LUCY SHOW . As a matter of fact I like "I Love Lucy" the best but it's not because of Desi Arnaz. I won't say that he wasn't an asset but I do believe that it still would have been just as popular with Richard Denning as her husband. Listen to "My Favorite Husband", it's hilarious. That is what became "I Love Lucy" and although it is my favorite I still like Lucy's other shows too.

That's nice, hun. :)

I thought she was a fan of Lucy

From what I've seen on these boards, Dawsongirl IS a fan of Lucy, let's get the facts straight. ;)

Originally posted by crazyredhead
That's nice, hun. :)



From what I've seen on these boards, Dawsongirl IS a fan of Lucy, let's get the facts straight. ;)

I'm not your hun and as soon as you take your own advice I'll do the same.

Originally posted by onlyonelucy
I'm not your hun and as soon as you take your own advice I'll do the same.

you tell her!!!! :D And Dawsongirl, sorry i thought you were the one that compared her to Jerry Lewis.

Originally posted by *ShortCake*
you tell her!!!! :D And Dawsongirl, sorry i thought you were the one that compared her to Jerry Lewis.

That's alright.

Originally posted by crazyredhead
From what I've seen on these boards, Dawsongirl IS a fan of Lucy, let's get the facts straight. ;)

I am. I don't make it a priority to hang around boards of shows I hate.

Are You SERIOUS!!!?????? Desi Arnaz was a true asset to the I LOVE LUCY show. He added so much flavor and variety to the show. He was the PERFECT straight-man for Lucy. Richard Denning couldn't have possibly been anywhere as close to Desi's impeccable timing and talent, and last but not least, making everything work. First of all, their real love shines through their characters. If they were only acting, it wouldn't have worked. Plus, I'm tired of everyone giving Lucy all of the credit, or most of it. Yeah I know, she is the greatest comedienne in history, but she couldn't have secured her place in history by herself. She needed to perfect support under her to shine the way she did. Vivian Vance-Brilliant. William Frawley-Priceless. Desi Arnaz-Genious. These people just don't get enough credit. I mean, VIvian Vance should be labeled as one of the greatest comedienne's of all time also, but people always refer to her as a second banana, which is true, but her presence was essential to the history of the show. I mean, come on, give me a break here. Dosen't anyone agree with me?:mad:

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
I am so sick of seeing people pick up for Desi. Make excuses for him or tolerations.

Sorry, but someone’s got to. I’ve always considered myself an equal fan of Lucy and Desi. Therefore, I’ve always tried to look at things from each perspective. You seem to be overlooking the fact that they both had flaws and both made mistakes as parents.



Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
Well then how can you say Desi was a good father to his kids?

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
Desi had this tendency to be overly generous.

But have you ever considered the fact that Lucy may have been overly frugal? I’m not saying that Lucy didn’t do a good thing by teaching her children the value of a dollar – it was a very important lesson for them to learn. But Lucy held her daughter’s first wedding in her backyard and fed the guests cold cuts on paper plates. If that ain’t cheap, I don’t know what is. Especially when Lucy certainly could have afforded something better for such an important day in her daughter's life. And that’s just one example of many.

The kids probably needed that contrast. They had two extremes to deal with – their father was extravagant, their mother frugal. So, to a certain extent, it evened out. Yes, a child tends to favor the parent who spoils him to a greater extent. However, this problem is not exclusive to the Arnaz family. Similar roles are defined in a lot of families, divorced or not. It doesn’t make one parent better than the other. And it doesn’t necessarily mean that Desi was trying to get his children to like him better than his ex-wife.

As you mentioned, it reflects their backgrounds. Lucy and Desi’s attitudes about money were completely different, beginning with childhood. It doesn’t make Desi a bad father just because he spent a lot of money on his kids and Lucy mom-of-the-year because she was more reserved with her cash. Desi taught his kids the importance of taking a moment to marvel at the beauty of Earth, and advised them to never to be afraid to ask God for help if they got into a bind. Those are just a few lessons of many. He was a man who loved life and didn’t think about tomorrow and his spending reflected that. Lucy, on the other hand, worked just as hard as Desi played.

Neither parent really found that middle ground, so the only thing left for the kids to do was to learn from the two extremes. Desi’s philosophy was to enjoy life, live for today. For Lucy, it was to work hard and be careful with the fruits of that work – because one can never tell what tomorrow may bring. Each was a great lesson, yet each lesson spawned positive and negative consequences for Lucy and Desi throughout their lives. Maybe Lucie and Desi, Jr. are all the more wiser today because they grew up with these two contrasting personalities raising them. They could learn from their parent’s mistakes while taking their lessons and lifestyles to heart also.

Originally posted by Mkaleek
Are You SERIOUS!!!?????? Desi Arnaz was a true asset to the I LOVE LUCY show. He added so much flavor and variety to the show. He was the PERFECT straight-man for Lucy. Richard Denning couldn't have possibly been anywhere as close to Desi's impeccable timing and talent, and last but not least, making everything work. First of all, their real love shines through their characters. If they were only acting, it wouldn't have worked. Plus, I'm tired of everyone giving Lucy all of the credit, or most of it. Yeah I know, she is the greatest comedienne in history, but she couldn't have secured her place in history by herself. She needed to perfect support under her to shine the way she did. Vivian Vance-Brilliant. William Frawley-Priceless. Desi Arnaz-Genious. These people just don't get enough credit. I mean, VIvian Vance should be labeled as one of the greatest comedienne's of all time also, but people always refer to her as a second banana, which is true, but her presence was essential to the history of the show. I mean, come on, give me a break here. Dosen't anyone agree with me?:mad:

I do.

Now...which insult does that warrent?

Originally posted by Mkaleek
I mean, come on, give me a break here. Dosen't anyone agree with me?

Deep breaths, deep breaths! Read back through some of the other posts, and in other threads, and you'll see that you're far from alone. I'll always stick up for Desi. :cool:

[qoute]I'm not your hun and as soon as you take your own advice I'll do the same.[/quote]

Just be glad I didn't call you a b****. :p

But have you ever considered the fact that Lucy may have been overly frugal? I’m not saying that Lucy didn’t do a good thing by teaching her children the value of a dollar – it was a very important lesson for them to learn. But Lucy held her daughter’s first wedding in her backyard and fed the guests cold cuts on paper plates. If that ain’t cheap, I don’t know what is. Especially when Lucy certainly could have afforded something better for such an important day in her daughter's life. And that’s just one example of many.

The kids probably needed that contrast. They had two extremes to deal with – their father was extravagant, their mother frugal. So, to a certain extent, it evened out. Yes, a child tends to favor the parent who spoils him to a greater extent. However, this problem is not exclusive to the Arnaz family. Similar roles are defined in a lot of families, divorced or not. It doesn’t make one parent better than the other. And it doesn’t necessarily mean that Desi was trying to get his children to like him better than his ex-wife.

As you mentioned, it reflects their backgrounds. Lucy and Desi’s attitudes about money were completely different, beginning with childhood. It doesn’t make Desi a bad father just because he spent a lot of money on his kids and Lucy mom-of-the-year because she was more reserved with her cash. Desi taught his kids the importance of taking a moment to marvel at the beauty of Earth, and advised them to never to be afraid to ask God for help if they got into a bind. Those are just a few lessons of many. He was a man who loved life and didn’t think about tomorrow and his spending reflected that. Lucy, on the other hand, worked just as hard as Desi played.

Neither parent really found that middle ground, so the only thing left for the kids to do was to learn from the two extremes. Desi’s philosophy was to enjoy life, live for today. For Lucy, it was to work hard and be careful with the fruits of that work – because one can never tell what tomorrow may bring. Each was a great lesson, yet each lesson spawned positive and negative consequences for Lucy and Desi throughout their lives. Maybe Lucie and Desi, Jr. are all the more wiser today because they grew up with these two contrasting personalities raising them. They could learn from their parent’s mistakes while taking their lessons and lifestyles to heart also.

Very well said! :D

All this talk about Lucy disciplining her kids, but what about Desi? Did he ever like spank them or something? I mean before the divorce, I seriously doubt it afterwards. He was always spanking Lucy! LOL :lol:

I think Lucy and Dsei were equally guilty for the way they raised their children. They decided to have a baby while trying to persue their careers full throttle, and those two just don't mix. Raising a kid is a full time job, and so is being in show business, and having two full time jobs is virtually impossible. Something has got to give. I personally think they deserve equal praise also. In front of the camera, Lucy is the driving force, but behind and in front of the camera, Desi was also the driving force. Hands down, it takes two to make a success story, and if there's two, the both of them deserve equal praise. Period.

Exactly.

Originally posted by crazyredhead




From what I've seen on these boards, Dawsongirl IS a fan of Lucy, let's get the facts straight. ;)


WELL FROM what IVE seen on this BOARD, I don't see how many of YOU CAN qualify yourselves as FANS. Maybe you all should get your heads out of that hole in the ground and start a new board called I Love Desi. Because from where I see it, y'all have a heyday just tearing on Lucy. I don't see how anyone can account for reasoning with his actions torwards Lucy...but then again I can just look at today's Moaral Standards and that level has dropped dramatically. Too Many Tolerations and Zero Moral Values. Too Bad Really :shakehead: And to say Jerry Lewis of all people (Now I can say Desi was at least more talented than that yutz) is in Lucy's League outta go see Desi's Pheeseekeyatrist. Because they are in definite need of having their head examined. But I will stand by what I say when I say If not for Lucy, Desi would have not had it as good as he did. His career was headed for the tubes and I don't mean the TV either. Lucy promoted him and she did that because she loved him. Lucy never took all of the credit for that show. She always promoted Desi and the writers. So I don't think u need to feed me that line of BS.

So why don't your FACTS STRAIGHT!!!!!!!


And another thing darling if being a ***** means that I stand behind what I beleive in and don't back down, and Defending Lucy is high priority when it comes down to it, then let me fill your head these little tidbits I myself and other LOYAL LUCYFans, such as I are proud to be *****es too.

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
WELL FROM what IVE seen on this BOARD, I don't see how many of YOU CAN qualify yourselves as FANS. Maybe you all should get your heads out of that hole in the ground and start a new board called I Love Desi. Because from where I see it, y'all have a heyday just tearing on Lucy. I don't see how anyone can account for reasoning with his actions torwards Lucy...but then again I can just look at today's Moaral Standards and that level has dropped dramatically. Too Many Tolerations and Zero Moral Values. Too Bad Really :shakehead: And to say Jerry Lewis of all people (Now I can say Desi was at least more talented than that yutz) is in Lucy's League outta go see Desi's Pheeseekeyatrist. Because they are in definite need of having their head examined. But I will stand by what I say when I say If not for Lucy, Desi would have not had it as good as he did. His career was headed for the tubes and I don't mean the TV either. Lucy promoted him and she did that because she loved him. Lucy never took all of the credit for that show. She always promoted Desi and the writers. So I don't think u need to feed me that line of BS.

So why don't your FACTS STRAIGHT!!!!!!!


And another thing darling if being a ***** means that I stand behind what I beleive in and don't back down, and Defending Lucy is high priority when it comes down to it, then let me fill your head these little tidbits I myself and other LOYAL LUCYFans, such as I are proud to be *****es too.


Agreed.. sorry if I tend to agree with everyone when they defend Lucy. They say all of the things I want to say, and even better!. I am sorry if people think we are B*tches, but hell, when it comes to Lucy and defending her, then so be it. I dont care what other people think, I just want people to know that I love Lucy!!!! :D. I will definatly be one of the die hard, red blooded annoying fan that I am!! So if you guys dont like that in me, put me on ignore because I will be with the group defending her!!

And Mickey Air Drummer I see no purpose for your presence on an I Love Lucy board. You DON'T Love Lucy.

Dawson Girl you just have issues.....No i don't keep the gates of heaven and don't think Desi lovers should go to hell. I am just saying that none of you have your facts straight!! I think You are all stuck in this colossal fantasy that Lucy and Desi were the Ricardoes, and you have foolishly read into some line of BULL that Desi made Lucy who she was. Lucy Made Lucy who whe was and no one else. She worked hard and dedicated herself, and when her ship came in for TV STARDOM.....you might say she DESIcated her self. She promoted him. He was not going anywhere with his drum except the local hotel with some hooker. He broke her heart not the other way around.But she still loved him, and she wanted them to have a happy marriage together, Lucy figured the only way to keep him with her was she had to figure out how they could keep busy together, and being asked to turn her Radio series into a Tv Show, she wanted Desi to be her husband, and what she did was put her reputation on the line for the sake Desi could have a career going again, which Lucy thought would keep him busy and where she could keep an eye on him. That didn't stop his wondering eye though. He kept on going, even with the most beutiful woman in the world for a wife, and two children, a big tv studio empire and a career .Yesyou may argue the point and give me the lammo excuse thatEVERYONE does it! ( I expect that anyways, Didn't Richard Dawson do that???)
THat doesn't make it right. When You are married you should stick to that one person. I don;t see how anyone could stray from Lucy. But then again I am a Lucy Fan,,,,a Die Hard Lucy Fan as you drolly put it and just you know I am DAMN proud of it too!!!!LUCYFAN4E!!!!!




I LOVE LUCY......ILOVE LUCY........I LOVE LUCY!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by *ShortCake*
Agreed.. sorry if I tend to agree with everyone when they defend Lucy. They say all of the things I want to say, and even better!. I am sorry if people think we are B*tches, but hell, when it comes to Lucy and defending her, then so be it. I dont care what other people think, I just want people to know that I love Lucy!!!! :D. I will definatly be one of the die hard, red blooded annoying fan that I am!! So if you guys dont like that in me, put me on ignore because I will be with the group defending her!!


And honey we welcome you with arms wide open. We Lucy Lovers have to stick together. Lucy isn't here to defend herself anymore, you are right, so it is up to those of us who really love her to stand together and defend our Lucy. I think this board needs more people, who Love Lucy.

You know I often wonder if Lucy knew how much impact she has made on our lives, really and truly. I know she had to be gratified in knowing she made an entire world laugh and many generations of Lucy fans laugh and still more to come, but I often wonder if she knew of the impact. She was a very humble down-to-earth woman, who didn't vive to a big fuss...but I have to think she had to have been touched by that, otherwise, she would have never tried so hard, she wouldn't have kept going the way she did, even when the chips were down, and much later on,when the scripts were far from good, i liek to think she did it just to keep us happy. Most of us know that Life with Lucy was bad timing for her. Although I Love Lucy so much she could do burlesque, or anything , I just love watching her. But we know that show was a mess, and the woman was by no means stupid. She did run a studio, and she didn't get to where she did by being a dummy. The woman was a BRAIN. So despite Gary talking her into that "ditch" despite her declaration that she would not want to do another show with her friends being gone, I kinda think she did it, just to keep up appearances and because she loved her fans, but I think that is the ONLY reason she did it. I think she knew why Gary had his hand in it.

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
And honey we welcome you with arms wide open. We Lucy Lovers have to stick together. Lucy isn't here to defend herself anymore, you are right, so it is up to those of us who really love her to stand together and defend our Lucy. I think this board needs more people, who Love Lucy.

You know I often wonder if Lucy knew how much impact she has made on our lives, really and truly. I know she had to be gratified in knowing she made an entire world laugh and many generations of Lucy fans laugh and still more to come, but I often wonder if she knew of the impact. She was a very humble down-to-earth woman, who didn't vive to a big fuss...but I have to think she had to have been touched by that, otherwise, she would have never tried so hard, she wouldn't have kept going the way she did, even when the chips were down, and much later on,when the scripts were far from good, i liek to think she did it just to keep us happy. Most of us know that Life with Lucy was bad timing for her. Although I Love Lucy so much she could do burlesque, or anything , I just love watching her. But we know that show was a mess, and the woman was by no means stupid. She did run a studio, and she didn't get to where she did by being a dummy. The woman was a BRAIN. So despite Gary talking her into that "ditch" despite her declaration that she would not want to do another show with her friends being gone, I kinda think she did it, just to keep up appearances and because she loved her fans, but I think that is the ONLY reason she did it. I think she knew why Gary had his hand in it.


Thank you Jen!! ( Its Ashley.. LUCYBALL1000 on LucyTalk). I really hate it when people on this site try to pick Lucy apart with out really knowing the facts. I admit some of us here know quite a bit about her.. but most of the remarks here are stupid and childish. I hate it when people get mad at us for defending her. What are we going to do just laugh at how they say that crap? Well.. they asked for it. These people obviously dont know how die hard we are. Well.. get used to it guys, if you are going to go tear Lucy apart like this, watch out because we will tear you all apart right back! AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE FACTS TO BACK IT UP!! What a concept that is. FACTS!!!

YOU GO GIRL!!!! Go On Getcha Some!!!

I Notice the same thing too Ash. It's always the same people backing her up. Just goes to show who real fans are and what we'll do and how far we will go for our Lucy. Where there's Lucy....there's us!!!
So Hey look Us Over....Lend us an ear. We Love our Lucy, and we'll say it loud and clear!!!!So what if you hate us so what if you fuss, cause we'll defender forver if that's what it takes to keep her legend on so look out world here we come.

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
And Mickey Air Drummer I see no purpose for your presence on an I Love Lucy board. You DON'T Love Lucy.

Last time I checked, anyone could come on this board without having to take a test to see just how big a Lucy fan they are. So if you don't like being on a board with Desi lovers, leave.


Dawson Girl you just have issues.....( I expect that anyways, Didn't Richard Dawson do that???)

You spend your time coming on here and yelling at people and I'm the one with issues?? Sad world then.

And if you're insinuating that Richard cheated on his wife, I suggest you actually read something about the man and get back to me. Because obviously you have no idea what you're even talking about.

This thread is getting closed. I suggest if you really want to yell at someone, PM them.