"She could be very cold," admits daughter Lucie Arnaz, "and although she told me she loved me all the time, I didn't feel loved." This is what Lucie is quoted as saying in the new biography of Lucille Ball, "Ball of Fire." Less than a year after her mother died, she told Joan Rivers on her show that her mother was a "control freak." Several years ago she told the writers of the book "Desilu" (among a number of other unflattering things) that her mother had "the emotional maturity of a five-year-old." And frankly, I can't think of a kind thing she ever said about her mother. She heaps endless praise on her alcoholic, cheating father, but hasn't a single kind word to say about her mother. A few years ago at a Lucy Convention Steve Allen was one of the guests. When he got up and talked, he gave an address to the fanatical Lucy fans about how they had not ever lost anything with Lucille Ball's death because they never knew her, like he and her friends had. All they knew was her work, which was all recorded on film and all of which still exists today. He said to them "Lucy's dead, get over it!" Lucie, who was in that audience, picked up on that line and started using it as a punch line. I was in a semi-private gathering later that weekend that included Lucie. She blurted that line at least three times like it was a big joke. Can you imagine laughingly using a line like that about your own parent?

It's interesting, but in that "Desilu" book, Lucie tried to paint a picture of a sad, deprived childhood as Lucille Ball's daughter. But if you really focus on what she's saying, the life she's describing, you realize that it was actually a pretty NORMAL one. While most of the other Hollywood celeb kids around her were being spoiled to death by their parents, terrible Lucy tried to instill values in her children by -- heaven forbid -- teaching them how to work for a living and earn their own way. She, in my opinion, was trying to raise self-sufficient, upstanding kids. Obviously, she didn't quite succeed with this one.

Part of the problem most surely was that when Lucie and Desi Jr. visited their father, he did spoil them to death, which would pretty much undo the work their mother was trying to do. This is an unfortunate consequence of divorce sometimes: one parent trying to be the responsible parent and instill discipline while the other tries to be the popular parent with the kid by spoiling them to death and giving them all the things they shouldn't have.

When I hear things about Lucille Ball, how she could be tough and emotionally distant, I often feel like I'm reading about my own father. Like Lucy, he has always been a workaholic. He was often not accessible. He also has unpredictable temper tantrums. Pretty much any of these characteristics that are attributed to Lucille Ball I can see in my father. He also holds similar values. He's been very successful in his career and had the ability to spoil his kids, but instead he chose to make us get jobs and be self sufficient. I could easily sit back and lambast him the way Lucie does about her mother. But you know what? It's time to grow up! Get over it! Do I wish it were easier for my father to open up? Do I wish he had a less volatile temperament? Sure I do. But my gosh, he comes from a different time, from back in the days when we didn't have a Dr. Phil or 24-hour self-help channels with shows teaching you how to be a better parent. All he had were his own life experiences. And all Lucille Ball had as an example was a mother who abandoned her for a couple years to be with her second husband, who worked a lot and spent little time with her kids. Does her emotional distance mean she didn't really love her kids? My gosh, Lucie should consider herself so lucky that her mother did tell her "all the time" that she loved her. I don't think my father ever uttered those words to me before I was 30!

Desi Jr. always talks about what a caring mother his mother was. One example he gives is of how his mother (and father) was by his side every step of the way in the early '80s when he was going through therapy for drug addiction. Perhaps Lucie is jealous that her brother got that attention and not her? Well frankly, I'm sure if Lucie had been struggling with drug abuse or alcohol abuse or whatever, her mother would have been there for her as well. But clearly she must have thought she was a better adjusted person than it now appears she is.

It's absurd for Lucie to suggest her mother didn't really love her. My gosh, it's no secret how important Lucy's career was to her. But she sacrificed her professional reputation back in 1968 by putting her kids on her show. She was exposing herself to absolute ridicule for doing that because, as anyone familiar with that series knows, when it first began those two couldn's act to save their lives! Lucy could have, and perhaps should have, hired REAL actors to be on that show with her. But instead she sacrificed her own professional credibility to give her kids a chance that most aspiring actors can only dream of. She gave them an opportunity not only to appear on national television, but to be CO-STARS. And they sure as hell didn't deserve that privilege. If that isn't love, I don't know what is.

It's interesting that Ms. Arnaz wasn't saying these things about her mother while she was still alive. Instead, she waited until after Lucille Ball died and after she got that big, fat inheritance from her that has allowed her the freedom to do anything in life that she wishes.

I doubt if Lucie is reading this, but if she is, please know many of us have difficult relationships with our parents. You're not alone out there. But our parents can't always be the image of what we wish them to be. And maybe their idea of good parenting isn't you idea of what it should be. At some point you need to stop being a baby and wanting the world to feel sorry for you. In fact, perhaps you should realize that your real problem is that you are TOO MUCH LIKE YOUR OWN MOTHER. I've heard this from a number of people. You have the same personality. You're sweetness and light and fun when the camera is on you, but once it's off you often can be cold. "Cold," the very word you use to describe your mother I've heard used to describe YOU. So take your own advice: Lucy's dead, get over it!

Don't be too hard on her. Lucie's behaviour is very similar to many other children of celebrities. It's a really, really, crazy world to grow up in. Besides, we don't knowwhat life was like for her in Lucy's house. Just because Desi Jr found it loving doesn't mean that Lucie did. We all need different things from our parents, and all require different levels of contact and assurance. What Lucy saw as enough hugs wasn't necessarily enough for Lucie, if you see what I mean? Lucie said in a recent interview in a British magazine (Telegraph On Saturday I think) that she loved her mother, sure, but she was closer to her father because they have much more similar personalities, looked at life the same way, and were just generally the kind of people fated to be closer. That's just the way it goes sometime.

:eek:

I predict 78 posts for this thread....lol


Seriously, I've always thought Lucie has been very protective of her mother's image. I don't know....


BTW, what the hell was Steven Allen's problem that day?

Jane, why don't you post more often. You always say everything so beautifully and accurately. I recently made a promise to Laura, who runs Lucie's website, that i would make an effort to stop bashing Lucie and her comments, because Laura is such a doll and is Lucie's biggest fan, i didn't want to hurt HER in the process. B U T , i also always clearly state that i want the truth and not sugar coated claptrap given by publicists, or certain people wanting to get articles published and knowing that the juicier the lies and exaggerations, the more people will read it and the more publicity will be derived from their efforts. You've said everything so well, as usual, that i will only add one thing. Insiders have recently told me that Lucie's kids are experiencing some problems with underage drinking and pot smoking, how come? I thought Lucie was the perfect mother, maybe she's human like all of us, and her own mother also after all! It seems Lucie herself is being ridiculed by family and close friends for being extremely frugal and outspoken and . . . oh my, just like her mother again. Well, it's understandable, the poort thing is upset that her mom did not leave her enough money, yes 22 million is so little nowadays, and also the fact that she has to handle her mom and dad's estates is so time consuming, never mind that it brings her a million a year in revenues. I agree, i also had the same problem with my own dad, and i have said before to Lucie in open posts, GET OVER IT, it fits here too!

Ok, took some medication and lied down a little, but i just wanted to say, NOTHING riles me more than comments from Lucie about how bad her mom was as a mother. You all may know how i Hate George Bush, but i would gladly become a supporter of his in return for Lucie NOT making comments like that when she knows full well how we will react. I am always reminded of the story of where Lucy got hit on the set with this huge display of cans coming down on her and everybody ran to her rescue hoping she was all right and it is said the two kids stayed where they were and kept on reading their magazines or books not bothering to check on her, seems feelings work both ways! I seem to recall that Lucy put the kids on her show to keep an eye on them AND to give them a start in show business. They both did poorly in school, but found joy in learning with tutors on the set. She let THEM decide if they wanted to do it or not and did not force them in any way. BUT, she did not like the pregnant girls and rampant drug use of both of their schools. She did not allow them to go to certain people's houses and yes, you're absolutely right, she was a hands on mom who was constantly told by her own mother, no, don't do that, if you really LOVE them, you don't let them do that. I also don't recall Lucie saying anything good about her mom but Desi jr did. And his mother who was so concerned with appearances a la Nancy Reagan, especially after being painted as the wicked witch of the north in that Patty Duke fiasco, still found the time and did not worry about the consequences of going to drug therapy to get her son OFF of drugs. Her daughter still was pregnant when she got married and she married a much older man, maybe looking for a father figure. I find Lucie to be talented, a beauty and smart, but comments like this one make me rethink that assessment. Maybe it's all an image, like the way she would have us think her own mom was. Maybe Lucie has had it easier with her own kids because she never reached the status of her mother. The only Emmy she won was for producing a documentary on her parents. She never ran a studio or supported friends and relatives all her life like her mom did. But don't get me wrong, she has her good points too, she does do charity work and she is a great entertainer, i just wish she would get off this Mommie Dearest kick she's been on for decades now!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Insiders have recently told me that Lucie's kids are experiencing some problems with underage drinking and pot smoking, how come?

:rolleyes: I suppose these nameless "insiders" told you that bit of trivial assumption in confidance?

Originally posted by SPLAIN
It seems Lucie herself is being ridiculed by family and close friends for being extremely frugal and outspoken and . . . oh my, just like her mother again.


Those sound like Grrrrrrrrrrreat friends. Obviously somebody on the "grape vine" has an axe to grind.

One LAST thing, if Lucy was indeed a BAD mother, it takes two people to make a BAD relationship and Lucy paid for it in the end, didn't she DIE ALONE in that hospital room because her cheap husband had cancelled the nurse, and where were her kids at that time, already counting the money that would go to them? The word S P O I L E D seems so appropriate here!

Claude, I am amazed that you would say something as crude as that. :(

As long as Lucie can make the comments she does, she should know that her family and friends are making similar comments about HER!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
One LAST thing, if Lucy was indeed a BAD mother, it takes two people to make a BAD relationship and Lucy paid for it in the end, didn't she DIE ALONE in that hospital room because her cheap husband had cancelled the nurse, and where were her kids at that time, already counting the money that would go to them? The word S P O I L E D seems so appropriate here!

That's pretty rough! I think she was up there to visit her alot but she died really early in the morning, didn't she? I don't think it's fair to say she was already counting the money.

You're right, i take it back, i was extremely angry that she was bashing her mother again in a new book!

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
"She could be very cold," admits daughter Lucie Arnaz, "and although she told me she loved me all the time, I didn't feel loved." This is what Lucie is quoted as saying in the new biography of Lucille Ball, "Ball of Fire." Less than a year after her mother died, she told Joan Rivers on her show that her mother was a "control freak." Several years ago she told the writers of the book "Desilu" (among a number of other unflattering things) that her mother had "the emotional maturity of a five-year-old." And frankly, I can't think of a kind thing she ever said about her mother.

I think that you could be reading too much into this. Yes, Lucy could be very cold. So many people around her have said that. It was part of her personality. Why deny the truth? And the part about Lucie not feeling loved, well, there were times when I was younger when my parents used the 'tough love' method -- and I sure as heck didn't feel loved, either. Lucie didn't say, "Although she told me she loved me all the time, I really don't think she ever loved me." She said she didn't feel loved. Big difference.

And the part about her calling her mother a "control freak" -- I can't see what is so wrong with that, either. I have friends who I would call control freaks, but I love 'em to death anyway. Again, it is just one aspect of her personality. It's the truth! And it is also the reason why her shows worked so well -- she was controlling, but turned out good shows as a result.

Finally, in "Desilu", I don't believe that Lucie made that comment to be cruel. She gives readers an insight into why her mother was the way she was, comedically, emotionally, etc. Let me quote from the book to make my point:

Lucie: "The worst thing you can do is supress pain, and she made a career out of supressing all of her pain....Thank God she had her comedy to act out all this childhood fantasy. She was really stuck at a young age emotionally, and she probably stopped any sort of serious emotional growth around that five-to-six-year-old stage. My mother would get angry or react emotionally like a child, like a frustrated child in a tantrum......and yet, that's why she was such a great comic. Because she could indentify with that childlike humor and youthful crazines and unabashed bravery. An overcoming of that pain in performing, if you're lucky, gives you a gift that you can give back to people."

She recognizes her mother as someone whose frustrations were rooted in a deep pain that was transformed into something that her mother gave back to the world. Her mother probably did throw tantrums, which, in my opinon, is childish. That doesn't make me love her any less. I think that Lucie was just telling it like it is, something that her mother certainly did a lot of. The truth hurts, but I don't think that Lucie was trying to hurt her mother by telling it.



Originally posted by SPLAIN
Insiders have recently told me that Lucie's kids are experiencing some problems with underage drinking and pot smoking, how come? I thought Lucie was the perfect mother, maybe she's human like all of us, and her own mother also after all!

You can't really throw that in her face. No matter how hard you try to set your children on the right track, no matter what values and morals you try to instill in them, teenagers are going to make their own decisions in the end. I know plenty of teens whose parents couldn't keep them from doing those kinds of things, despite the amount of Bible studies they were forced to attend growing up. Kids will do what they want to; it doesn't mean that their parents were bad ones.


In conclusion (finally!), I don't know how Lucie really feels about her mother. I don't know Lucie personally, and probably none of us do. But when looking at the evidence (at least the evidence mentioned in the first post of this thread), I don't consider Lucie to be a "Lucy basher." People ask her questions, she answers them honestly. And, unfortunatly, the bad things people say about a famous person tend to get printed more often then the the good things because that's what our society craves.

Remember the nice song that Lucie sang to her mother when she was inducted into the Television Hall of Fame called "My Mother the Star"? It was performed with nothin' but love, if you ask me.

Very well said, as usual, sorry i omitted you in my praise of the best people on this board, you were always one of the best, my post was total anger, you know, NOT THIS AGAIN, type of thing. I wish i could take some of it back as you make great points about her being totally honest and direct like her mother, there's a BUT coming up so i'll go now, thanks again for giving the OTHER side to Jane and my comments!

I just wanted to say that this is a great topic and makes for a wonderful debate.

But remember, no fighting or attacking individual posters, okay? I wanna keep this open.

Well, i'm backing down, because i apparently shocked some people with my response, but it's been stored for quite a while and needed air! Thanks for letting it go on, maybe we can really debate this and get some answers as to why it's still going on!

Seems to me that celebrities and their children generally fall into one of two camps. There's Dick and Barry van Dyke, Jack and Chris Lemmon (mind you, they had their problems for a while), Kirk and Michael Douglas and others on the one side, and then there's the flip side. Henry and Peter Fonda, Enid Blyton and her kids, Bing Crosby and his kids. There's no doubt that Hollywood screws you up, and if you've got sense you try to bring your children up away from that as much as possible.

I've never noticed any real animosity in what Lucie says, though I don't read her every word like some people. She (and Lucy) don't get the coverage in Britain for one thing. She says what she thinks, and what she perceived things to have been like. I'm sure if I wrote down what I thought my childhood was like it would surprise my parents. They think they're doing one thing, we invariably think another. Would those of you think who think that Lucie is being unfair feel that way if you weren't Lucy fans? It may well be that you're just not detached enough to make a fair judgement.

Originally posted by Mickey
Would those of you think who think that Lucie is being unfair feel that way if you weren't Lucy fans? It may well be that you're just not detached enough to make a fair judgement.

I completely agree with you. A few years ago I used to get upset at some of the things Lucie said about Lucy and then I realised that it was HER life and SHE experienced it. None of us were there and it is unfair of us to judge her by her own perceptions. Lucie has nothing to GAIN from telling her honest feelings to books that are supposed to give the full picture of Lucy's life. Maybe Lucie didn't FEEL loved but KNEW she was loved in the best way that Lucy could provide. This must be the case as she and Desi have done a helluva job in preserving and maintaining their parents' legacies.

There were times when I would hear Lucie speak about her mother and I would be in shock.

I never understood why Lucie would speak in such a bad way about her mother, After all millions of people love her mother. I like Lucie alot but, I don't agree with her bashing her mother every time she speaks about her in public. I'm sure Lucy has done mistakes but, I bet Lucie has too. I think for Lucie that " it's time for forgiving her mother". She should've done this before her mother died so she could be at peace herself. Not every parent is perfect and alot of us have gripes about them but, she gave birth to Lucie and that's one BIG declaration of love in itself. It's time for Lucie to let her mother rest in peace. It will be the best thing she ever did for herself.

Who is Enid Blyton? Haven't heard of this person.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Well, i'm backing down, because i apparently shocked some people with my response, but it's been stored for quite a while and needed air! Thanks for letting it go on, maybe we can really debate this and get some answers as to why it's still going on!
I was speaking to the whole board, not just you. Everything is cool so far.

Originally posted by vze3t9q9
Who is Enid Blyton? Haven't heard of this person.


A British children's novelist.

Originally posted by Mickey
Would those of you think who think that Lucie is being unfair feel that way if you weren't Lucy fans? It may well be that you're just not detached enough to make a fair judgement.

You should no by now I'm not one of those Lucy fanatics who can't tolerate anything negative being said about Lucille Ball. As Claude can attest, I've done more than my share of Lucy bashing here (as opposed to Lucie bashing). Remember, for example, my "Was Lucy a slut?" discussion?

Well, I know that Jane doesn't like me but.........I have to agree with her on this one. There is not one thing that she wrote that I don't agree with. I couldn't have said it better myself. Great write-up Jane.

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever

Remember the nice song that Lucie sang to her mother when she was inducted into the Television Hall of Fame called "My Mother the Star"? It was performed with nothin' but love, if you ask me.

Oh yes, I remember that song Lucie sang while her mother was still alive! Like I said before, I never knew Lucie to say anything negative about her mother while she was alive, before she got that big, fat inheritance. But since her mother has died, it's just the opposite: I never hear her say anything NICE about her.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
One LAST thing, if Lucy was indeed a BAD mother, it takes two people to make a BAD relationship and Lucy paid for it in the end, didn't she DIE ALONE in that hospital room because her cheap husband had cancelled the nurse, and where were her kids at that time, already counting the money that would go to them? The word S P O I L E D seems so appropriate here!

To be fair, Lucie did visit her mother when she was in the hospital towards the end. But on the night she died, everyone thought she was actually healing and on the road to recovery. It was a surprise to everyone. Perhaps that's why no one was with her that night. And after all, her death did occur in the middle of the night, like 4 AM.

Originally posted by Pitooey
It's time for Lucie to let her mother rest in peace. It will be the best thing she ever did for herself.

Amen!

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
You should no by now I'm not one of those Lucy fanatics who can't tolerate anything negative being said about Lucille Ball. As Claude can attest, I've done more than my share of Lucy bashing here (as opposed to Lucie bashing). Remember, for example, my "Was Lucy a slut?" discussion?


Yikes! Let me say this again without typos:

You should know by now that I'm not one of those Lucy fanatics who can't tolerate anything negative being said about Lucille Ball. As Claude can attest, I've done more than my share of Lucy bashing here (as opposed to Lucie bashing). Remember, for example, my "Was Lucy a slut?" discussion?

Originally posted by onlyonelucy
Well, I know that Jane doesn't like me but.........I have to agree with her on this one. There is not one thing that she wrote that I don't agree with. I couldn't have said it better myself. Great write-up Jane.

Just because I've been a bitch to you doesn't mean I don't like you. Thanks, though.

Originally posted by That Other Fan
:eek: BTW, what the hell was Steven Allen's problem that day?

I don't think it's so much that Steve Allen had a "problem" that day, I believe it's more that when people reach that age, they often tend to be more blunt than they used to be. Old people often don't give a darn anymore what people think; they say what they want to say. But actually, he was making a good point about Lucy fanatics who have no life other than Lucy. He was probably tired of hearing people like that talk about how they missed her when, in fact, they never even knew her. He did know her. Her friends and family knew her. But all those particular Lucy fanatics knew of her was her work, which is still here for us all to enjoy. His point was that he and people who truly knew her were the ones who suffered a loss. The rest of us fans never lost anything because we never had HER to begin with. So he was basically saying, you fans didn't lose anything, so just get over it.

Originally posted by bweir
A few years ago I used to get upset at some of the things Lucie said about Lucy and then I realised that it was HER life and SHE experienced it. None of us were there and it is unfair of us to judge her by her own perceptions.

Well somehow Lucie thinks it's okay for HER to judge OTHERS' perceptions of her mother. When Jim Brochu wrote his book, she was all over the place basically calling him a liar. She said he made her mother seem "too nice." Too nice? Heaven forbid anyone make Lucille Ball seem too nice! Why couldn't she just leave it at, here's the way I saw her, and that's the way he saw her? That apparently wasn't good enough. In her mind, apparently no one's opinion of her mother is valid unless it matches her own opinion.

Originally posted by bweir
This must be the case as she and Desi have done a helluva job in preserving and maintaining their parents' legacies.

She's got a vested interest in maintaining her parents' legacies. She's making huge bucks from maintaining that legacy.

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
"Although she told me she loved me all the time, I really don't think she ever loved me." She said she didn't feel loved. Big difference.

What is the "big difference"? Her mother SAID she loved her, but Lucie says she didn't FEEL loved? It sounds to me like she's trying to cast doubt on her mother's claims that she loved her.

Originally posted by Mickey
Lucie said in a recent interview in a British magazine (Telegraph On Saturday I think) that she loved her mother, sure, but she was closer to her father because they have much more similar personalities, looked at life the same way, and were just generally the kind of people fated to be closer.

She's said many times she is more like her father than her mother. It's funny to me that she perceives herself that way. I've known several people that have known Lucie personally. What I learned from them is that Lucie pretty much embodies all the things she didn't like about her mother. She says her mother was often cold; they tell me Lucie is often cold. She says her mother was emotionally immature; they tell me the same thing about Lucie (she's known to get moody and pouty at the turn of a button for no known reason). She says her mother would "turn on" when there were lots of people around, then completely turn off when they were gone; Lucie, apparently, does the same thing. Basically, it's like mother, like daughter.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
She's said many times she is more like her father than her mother. It's funny to me that she perceives herself that way. I've known several people that have known Lucie personally. What I learned from them is that Lucie pretty much embodies all the things she didn't like about her mother. She says her mother was often cold; they tell me Lucie is often cold. She says her mother was emotionally immature; they tell me the same thing about Lucie (she's known to get moody and pouty at the turn of a button for no known reason). She says her mother would "turn on" when there were lots of people around, then completely turn off when they were gone; Lucie, apparently, does the same thing. Basically, it's like mother, like daughter.

And I should add she's obviously also very opinionated, just like her mother.

I predict 78 posts for this thread....lol

I would like to change that number to a 100 posts for this thread :lol:

I can't believe some of you have never heard of Enid Blyton! She's part of growing up. Her heyday was in the fifties really, when she wrote hundreds of stories for children. She knew exactly what children want in books and was able to quite brilliantly get on a child's mind level. She wrote adventures mainly, but also some fairy story stuff, and her work still sells by the truckload. I don't think it's ever been out of print. She used to have parties for children, and public readings for them, and children all over the uK thought she was wonderful, but her own children say she was cold and basically ignored them. Okay with other peoples' kids, but lousy with her own. Not an uncommon problem really, but I suppose when the parent in question is famous it's news.

This whole Lucie thing bothers me a little. I can't help thinking everybody is too hard on her. I agree that she should keep her mouth shut sometimes, but she obviously has emotional issues, and if there's one thing we should all have learnt from the past, it's that keeping quiet about that kind of thing is damaging. For one reason or another she didn't feel loved as a child. We don't know why that is. Imagine having a mother that everybody else loved but who seemed cold and distant to you. Wouldn't you want to try to make other people understand your point of view? Actually I confess that no, I wouldn't - but then I'm not the child of two self-confirmed show offs, which presumably makes a difference to all of this!

Originally posted by Mickey
This whole Lucie thing bothers me a little. I can't help thinking everybody is too hard on her. I agree that she should keep her mouth shut sometimes, but she obviously has emotional issues, and if there's one thing we should all have learnt from the past, it's that keeping quiet about that kind of thing is damaging.

I might respect her and what she's saying a tad bit more if she had had the guts to and integrity to say these things while her mother was still alive and able to defend herself. It wasn't until several months after her mother's death that she started talking about these things and she hasn't shut up since. Apparently, guaranteeing that big inheritance was more important to her than integrity and credibility.

For one reason or another she didn't feel loved as a child. We don't know why that is.

It sounds like she wanted to be coddled. Lucille Ball may have been from the same school in parenting as my father, who was not into coddling. There was a perception that coddling children would cause them to grow up to be weak individuals who couldn't stand on their own two feet. Another thing to consider is Lucille Ball's age. Most of Lucie's memories of her mother were of a woman who was past 50. Typically in that era, childreen grew up with parents in their 20s, 30s and 40s, not 50s, 60s and 70s. Lucy probably didn't have the energy at the end of the day to do the things younger parents were able to do with their kids. When she did have time off from work, she most certainly did do things with her kids -- taking them to Disneyland, Marineland, Palm Springs -- but given her age, she still probably couldn't keep up with the activities of younger parents.

Something else to consider: while Lucie seems to want everyone to think Lucille Ball was a bad mother, what she's not revealing -- something Lucy's closest friends felt -- was that she was hardly an exemplary daughter. One of these friends of Lucille Ball, who referred to Lucie as a c*** (I will protect her identity) said that Lucie used to use her children (Lucille's grandchildren) as bribery to get force her mother to give in to her demands. If Lucy didn't comply, she couldn't see the grandchildren. She apparently would often have her mother in tears on the phone. Of course, there could be another side to this story; I've only heard it from the side of Lucy's friend who can't stand Lucie. So I recognize there could be bias. But I find the story very credible. If Lucie didn't "feel" loved, she certainly didn't do anything to make her mother feel loved.

Imagine having a mother that everybody else loved but who seemed cold and distant to you. Wouldn't you want to try to make other people understand your point of view? Actually I confess that no, I wouldn't - but then I'm not the child of two self-confirmed show offs, which presumably makes a difference to all of this!

Self-confirmed show-offs? What does that mean? Lucille Ball did her show and whatever the script required, but beyond that, she was pretty serious and down-to earth and did nothing that I would consider "showing off." Roseanne and Madonna and Denis Rodman, they're show-offs, but Lucille Ball? Hardly.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
I don't think it's so much that Steve Allen had a "problem" that day, I believe it's more that when people reach that age, they often tend to be more blunt than they used to be. Old people often don't give a darn anymore what people think; they say what they want to say. But actually, he was making a good point about Lucy fanatics who have no life other than Lucy. He was probably tired of hearing people like that talk about how they missed her when, in fact, they never even knew her. He did know her. Her friends and family knew her. But all those particular Lucy fanatics knew of her was her work, which is still here for us all to enjoy. His point was that he and people who truly knew her were the ones who suffered a loss. The rest of us fans never lost anything because we never had HER to begin with. So he was basically saying, you fans didn't lose anything, so just get over it.

I agree with that.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
I might respect her and what she's saying a tad bit more if she had had the guts to and integrity to say these things while her mother was still alive and able to defend herself. It wasn't until several months after her mother's death that she started talking about these things and she hasn't shut up since. Apparently, guaranteeing that big inheritance was more important to her than integrity and credibility.

I totally agree with you. Lucy isn't here to defend herself against Lucie. But then again, Lucie isn't here to defend herself against you, either. You are saying that she all she cared about was the inheritance. That is a very harsh accusation. If you don't know her, then it is all just based on speculation. If you heard it from someone who knows Lucie personally, it is just hearsay. It seems that you are stooping to the same level that you are accusing Lucie of stooping to.

Maybe Lucie doesn't say anything nice about her mother. Maybe she wasn't very nice to her mother when she was alive. Maybe she did inherit some of her mother's more negative character traits. Who knows? I don't, because I don't know her. Give the lady a break.

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
I totally agree with you. Lucy isn't here to defend herself against Lucie. But then again, Lucie isn't here to defend herself against you, either.

Excuse me, but as far as I know, Lucie isn't banned from visiting this website. If she wants to come here and defend herself, I'm sure she's more than welcome to do so. And there is at least one person who reads this message board who knows her and can extend that invitation to her.


You are saying that she all she cared about was the inheritance.

I NEVER said ALL she cared about was the inheritance. I pointed out it was interesting she never said anything negative about her mother while she was alive, but only months after she died, and from that time forward, she has repeatedly made these kinds of negative remarks about her. I further said that, as a result, I think it makes her appear to have less integrity and to be less credible. And consequently, it appears integrity is less important to her than her inheritance. It's a big leap from that statement to say ALL she cares about is inheritance.

That is a very harsh accusation. If you don't know her, then it is all just based on speculation. If you heard it from someone who knows Lucie personally, it is just hearsay.

If I heard it from someone who knew Lucie (which I did, in several cases), then from my standpoint it is not heresay, but eyewitness testimony from the person who observed the behavior.


Maybe Lucie doesn't say anything nice about her mother. Maybe she wasn't very nice to her mother when she was alive. Maybe she did inherit some of her mother's more negative character traits. Who knows? I don't, because I don't know her. Give the lady a break.

I'll give the lady a break when she decides to let her mother rest in peace.

Self-confirmed show-offs? What does that mean? Lucille Ball did her show and whatever the script required, but beyond that, she was pretty serious and down-to earth and did nothing that I would consider "showing off." Roseanne and Madonna and Denis Rodman, they're show-offs, but Lucille Ball? Hardly.

Yes, I phrased that badly, didn't I. What I meant, I think, is that by nature performers tend to be extroverted, even if that's just their public facade. And if it is just their public facade, they can be contrastingly introverted in private. It can make them emotionally very different to non-performing types. Either way, their children are often attention seeking.

Maybe Lucie waited until her mother died before she started speaking about these things because she didn't want to say them before in case she hurt her? I don't know, JaneTVFan - I've never met the woman, and I've hardly ever heard her speak; I just have a natural tendency to defend people. :) My parents are hugely popular people who were cold as stone with their children. It's weird, because everybody assumes they must have been great. Now I would never go on TV and state the opposite, because they can't help the way they are - but if I was to become a minor celebrity, and was asked about my childhood, would I have to lie? The point I'm trying to make is that nothing is ever cut and dry.

:) And nobody who's Desi's daughter can be all bad. :)

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
[B And frankly, I can't think of a kind thing she ever said about her mother. She heaps endless praise on her alcoholic, cheating father, but hasn't a single kind word to say about her mother. [/B]

Go to Luciearnaz.com. In the "Ask Lucie" section, she answers questions that are often about Lucy. There are several instances of Lucie saying positive things about her mother. If you are looking for a "My mother was the greatest mom a girl could ever ask for," you're not gonna find it. But to say that Lucie never has anything good to say about Lucy just isn't true.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Excuse me, but as far as I know, Lucie isn't banned from visiting this website. If she wants to come here and defend herself, I'm sure she's more than welcome to do so.

Firstly, she shouldn't have the need to come here and defend herself against people that have a different disadvantaged viewpoint from hers. Secondly, I would HOPE that she would never dignify this ridiculous speculative thread by coming on here.

Originally posted by bweir
Firstly, she shouldn't have the need to come here and defend herself against people that have a different disadvantaged viewpoint from hers. Secondly, I would HOPE that she would never dignify this ridiculous speculative thread by coming on here.

Cop out.

Originally posted by Mickey

Maybe Lucie waited until her mother died before she started speaking about these things because she didn't want to say them before in case she hurt her?

That's certainly a possibility. Another possibility I've already raised is that she didn't want to put her inheritance in jeopardy by angering her mother. Yet another possiblity is if she had said these things while her mother were still around and could defend herself, in doing so, Lucy could have revealed some of her daughter's cruel behavior, such as what I mentioned before: Lucie coercing her mother into doing things by threatening to prevent her from seeing the grandchildren.


My parents are hugely popular people who were cold as stone with their children.

Hugely popular? Are they anyone we might have heard of? When you say they were stone cold, do your siblings feel the same way? The thing with Lucie is she's saying one thing and her brother is saying the opposite.


It's weird, because everybody assumes they must have been great. Now I would never go on TV and state the opposite, because they can't help the way they are - but if I was to become a minor celebrity, and was asked about my childhood, would I have to lie?

Well Lucie's either lying now or she was lying in the past before her mother died when she was asked the these kinds of questions.

Originally posted by bweir
Firstly, she shouldn't have the need to come here and defend herself against people that have a different disadvantaged viewpoint from hers. Secondly, I would HOPE that she would never dignify this ridiculous speculative thread by coming on here.

Speculative? I have heard pretty much the same story from three people who have known her, but, to my knowledge, don't know one another (i.e, that she can be moody, cold, controlling, and a Jekyll and Hyde). When three people, who don't know one another, independently tell me the same thing, I tend to believe there must be some truth to it and goes beyond speculation. No, I have not observed this first-hand because the couple times I've been in her presence, it was around lots of other people, so she was "on" But even one of those on moments I was around her didn't quite sit well with me, when she was gleefully exclaiming "Lucy's dead! Get over it! Ha ha ha ha ha!"

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
Go to Luciearnaz.com. In the "Ask Lucie" section, she answers questions that are often about Lucy. There are several instances of Lucie saying positive things about her mother. If you are looking for a "My mother was the greatest mom a girl could ever ask for," you're not gonna find it. But to say that Lucie never has anything good to say about Lucy just isn't true.

I have not visited that site in awhile. But you're right, she does say some positive things about her mother there. But my recollection (though it could be wrong) was that those positive comments were more about Lucille Ball, the actress, not Lucille Ball, the mother.

Hugely popular? Are they anyone we might have heard of? When you say they were stone cold, do your siblings feel the same way? The thing with Lucie is she's saying one thing and her brother is saying the opposite.

:lol: Hardly! No, I meant amongst their apparently massive circle of friends and all of their various neighbours. And as for how my siblings feel, most of them agree; at least one of them doesn't. Everybody's needs are different, see, and I'm not remotely surprised that Lucie feels one way and Desi Jr feels another. She might be less secure as a person than him, or just need more reassurance, or just need more physical contact.

Wow, i've had a weekend to calm down, and you're right Mickey, i'm too much a Lucy fan to not be biased here. I love the fact that this discussion is bringing out the BIG guns to discuss things in a rational way, old foes coming back to discuss Lucy which is why we're all here, or in Mickey's case, Desi's. I don't have the verbal skills or debating skills to join in when OTHER people state everything so well, God, i hope to meet you one day Jane, you are so good at this, i read every word you say and am awed, same for Ricardosfan 4 ever. Brock seems to be defending Laura's interests here although he too was very fair, i still say the only thing that bothers me is hurting Lucie's biggest fan the way we here were all hurt by Lucie's comments. All right, i know, some of you will say you were'nt hurt, gimme a break, i'm not Jane! Finally like Brock told me privately, imagine if Lucie's kids are reading this, and he's right of course, that hurts me too, thinking we are voicing these opinions and Lucy's grandchildren could be reading them. Hopefully, they, like me, would WANT to know why their own mother acts this way and what actions of their grandmother or even their great grandmother prompted them. I know Lucie mentions her therapists a lot, but i really think they won't help her until she helps herself by LETTING GO of all these negative feelings. I would only add one other little thing, don't tell me she did not say these things while Lucy was alive because she did not want to hurt her, she's still hurting her reputation now and nothing mattered more than her rep. And doesn't all the publicity this generates help the sale of books and videos and memorabilia which generates a million dollars a year in revenue to her and her brother? And i agree with Jane, i too have heard the same stories from all these different insiders, friends and family who don't know each other and maybe when they hear her comments feel they should give Lucy's comments as she is no longer here to defend herself.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Brock seems to be defending Laura's interests here although he too was very fair.

It is not that, really. I myself happen to respect Lucie and I believe that she is being treated and trashed VERY unfairly by people that don't know her, but are relying on the biased rattlings of others to fuel their hatred oh her. That is my opinion and it is likely not to change.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Finally like Brock told me privately, imagine if Lucie's kids are reading this, and he's right of course, that hurts me too, thinking we are voicing these opinions and Lucy's grandchildren could be reading them. Hopefully, they, like me, would WANT to know why their own mother acts this way and what actions of their grandmother or even their great grandmother prompted them.

That is not why I mentioned the kids, Claude. Re-read your posts on the first page and you will remember.

Do you think maybe these PEOPLE are trashing HER the way she is trashing her mother's memory? And i reiterate, maybe it would be good for the kids to know what's going on so they won't bitch about HER twenty years from now, or AFTER she's gone!

:rolleyes: I can tell by your post that you KNOW why I memtioned the kids to you...or you COMPLETELY missed the point.

Sorry, i will reread the whole thing and get back to you.

Ok, lemme have it because i dun't know what you're referring to, try a PM or e mail if you want to keep it private. AND nobody told me anything in confidence except for the ONE person, the others just didn't care at this point, it all started with the moving of the body and her wishes not being adhered to to get more money in the coffers of the museum. Let's discuss that too shall we?

Originally posted by SPLAIN
I don't have the verbal skills or debating skills to join in when OTHER people state everything so well, God, i hope to meet you one day Jane, you are so good at this, i read every word you say and am awed, same for Ricardosfan 4 ever.

Don't sell yourself so short, Claude! Your posts are one of the main reasons I come here at all!

i still say the only thing that bothers me is hurting Lucie's biggest fan the way we here were all hurt by Lucie's comments. All right, i know, some of you will say you were'nt hurt, gimme a break, i'm not Jane!

You're right, Lucie's comment did not HURT me, it just pissed me off. Much of what Lucie says about her mother is quite valid: she could be a tactless bitch at times. Where I have a problem with Lucie is her implication that her mother's love was not sincere, and when she dwells on the darker sides of her mother's personality, specifically the very characteristics that make me want to put a mirror in front of her. And also I get tired of hearing what sounds like whining: "Oh woe is me, my life was so tough growing up because my mother treated me like a normal kid instead of a celebrity kid." She doesn't seem to want to understand what her mother was doing as a parent. And she's trying to foist Y2K parenting standards on her mother. It's not fair. And what's really not fair IMO is raising all this negative stuff after her mother's gone.

Also, when I hear about an upbringing that reminds me so much of my own upbringing with my father (except for the celebrity aspect), and there's all this pity stuff attached to it, it's more than I can take. I've come to terms with my father's parenting -- not that I agree with it, I just try to understand where he's coming from and what his intentions are -- and I'm a lot younger than Lucie, so I have no patience.

And i agree with Jane, i too have heard the same stories from all these different insiders, friends and family who don't know each other and maybe when they hear her comments feel they should give Lucy's comments as she is no longer here to defend herself.

Exactly. It takes two to tango and there are two sides to every story. We don't know everything that went on inside that house. And unfortunately we're now only getting a one-sided picture without the other side there to give us a balanced perspective. Who knows, if Lucy was the mother from hell, perhaps it was because she had to deal with the daughter from hell. Without Lucy around to explain where she was coming from, how can we know for sure?

Originally posted by SPLAIN
it all started with the moving of the body and her wishes not being adhered to to get more money in the coffers of the museum. Let's discuss that too shall we?

Excellent topic! And it pretty much illustrates what we've already been talking about. I remain VERY troubled by this. Jamestown creeped Lucille Ball out in life. She only went back there a couple times after she moved away, and that wasn't exactly because she wanted to. And obviously, because of the fact that she never bought a burial plot there, but instead got a place for both herself and her mother in Los Angeles, she certainly had no intention or desire to have her ashes taken there. It seems awfully disrespectful and CRUEL to me. What I don't understand is why Desi Jr. went along on the ride and allowed this to happen.

Originally posted by bweir
It is not that, really. I myself happen to respect Lucie

Or perhaps you're just kissing up to her in hopes that word will get back to her that you're defending her so you can meet her or who knows what? As Claude can tell you, I don't kiss up to anyone. I'm not the least bit star struck. For the most part (and I'm not necessarily directing this at Lucie), Hollywood celebrities don't impress me at all. Most of them aren't terribly bright and are only where they are because of sheer luck and a little bit of talent. The people who truly awe me are people like Jimmy Carter and Eleanor Roosevelt who have used their lives and skills to change the world and society and aren't motivated by fame or attention or glamour.


and I believe that she is being treated and trashed VERY unfairly by people that don't know her, but are relying on the biased rattlings of others to fuel their hatred oh her. That is my opinion and it is likely not to change.

And, likewise, my opinion is not likely to change, either. I've heard enough already from people I believe are in a position to know what they're talking about. Beside, I call things as I see 'em. Lucie is not being "trashed" any more than she's trashing her mother's memory. If Lucy were alive when she said these things, you wouldn't be hearing from me here because Lucy would have the opportunity to speak for herself. But since we're being put in a position to view a situation in a one-sided context, I'm only trying to be fair and look at things from another angle.

This is totally disheartening people...How can my prophecy that this thread would reach 100 posts come true with this minimal amount of posting.


Post...people....POST! :mad:


:lol: :rotflmao: :lol: :D

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Or perhaps you're just kissing up to her in hopes that word will get back to her that you're defending her so you can meet her or who knows what?

Certainly not. I do not kiss up to anyone. I merely state, as you do, what I feel.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
I'm not the least bit star struck. For the most part (and I'm not necessarily directing this at Lucie), Hollywood celebrities don't impress me at all. Most of them aren't terribly bright and are only where they are because of sheer luck and a little bit of talent.

What does being star-struck have to do with anything? Nothing. Having respect for someone is not indicative of being in awe of the person. It is common courtesy

Well, i'm glad you're enjoying it all, i'm rather uncomfortable about the whole thing. All i want is the truth and answers on certain subjects. Look at pictures and films of little Lucie, or little miss cranky pants, sure did not LOOK like a happy camper, and nothings's changed lately. Now, the burial thing, i was the biggest defender of the move thinking this is what Lucy wanted, all i heard in interviews for decades was how beautiful Jamestown was with the changing of the seasons and i could just see her there buried next to grandpa who was like a father to her and the rest of her family, maybe her beloved violets circling the grave. Then i found out how those people treated Lucy, not just back then, which i knew about, but even to this day with those S T O R I E S that we won't go into here. Then, when i had already made a fool of myself, i finally got the truth. Lucie had to convince Fred and her bro, there's more there too that we can't go into here, and because she wanted to help the Museum by getting more tourists to the town that treated her mom like ****, and of course further her own cause of monitary returns, nothing is more important to her, everybody around her says so. So, she ignored her mom's wishes, took her out of the plot she had bought for herself. Don't get me wrong, in a way, i STILL side with the decision to move her as that plot was ridiculous, a small plaque when Bette Davis and Liberace had these huge monuments there. I know Lucy never wanted a HUGE monument, she was plain and simple with frugal tastes, but Davis comes from the same stock and you should see HERS by comparison.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Well, i'm glad you're enjoying it all, i'm rather uncomfortable about the whole thing. All i want is the truth and answers on certain subjects. Look at pictures and films of little Lucie, or little miss cranky pants, sure did not LOOK like a happy camper, and nothings's changed lately. Now, the burial thing, i was the biggest defender of the move thinking this is what Lucy wanted, all i heard in interviews for decades was how beautiful Jamestown was with the changing of the seasons and i could just see her there buried next to grandpa who was like a father to her and the rest of her family, maybe her beloved violets circling the grave. Then i found out how those people treated Lucy, not just back then, which i knew about, but even to this day with those S T O R I E S that we won't go into here. Then, when i had already made a fool of myself, i finally got the truth. Lucie had to convince Fred and her bro, there's more there too that we can't go into here, and because she wanted to help the Museum by getting more tourists to the town that treated her mom like ****, and of course further her own cause of monitary returns, nothing is more important to her, everybody around her says so. So, she ignored her mom's wishes, took her out of the plot she had bought for herself. Don't get me wrong, in a way, i STILL side with the decision to move her as that plot was ridiculous, a small plaque when Bette Davis and Liberace had these huge monuments there. I know Lucy never wanted a HUGE monument, she was plain and simple with frugal tastes, but Davis comes from the same stock and you should see HERS by comparison.

I am going to actually speak up here.. Claude I agree with you, if Lucy wanted to be buried in Jamestown, she would have been buried in Jamestown but instead she was buried in Cali. She should have stayed there, the move ticked me off. Does she even have a headstone there yet??? Cause when I was there in May they still didnt have the stone, and they didnt really give us an answer as to why. They had lilacs around her spot though. :o

Ok Jane, this is what i was talking about, i don't know what direction to go in now. Too much to say, edit and consider certain people's feelings, mostly the grandchildren. I agree with Jane, i used to think i was Lucy's biggest fan, but i also can tell the truth about her, and not flinch, because i love and respect her so much that i realize she did things that were wrong as she was HUMAN like all of us, she was no Saint, neither is Lucie and neither am I. The difference is the two Lucy's had incredible talent, and they are both loved by lots of people. My only reason for exploding at the start of this thread was the shock that Lucie is still at it, is it to help sell books, or just to vent because she's unhappy, or like Jane and I have both gone through ourselves, things that were never dealt with a parent's love that engulf the child forever until the child finally has to say ENOUGH! I'm not doing this anymore. If you think about it, even that great documentary Lucy and Desi before the laughter, which i consider one of the all time best things i've ever seen in my life. Listen to Lucie talk about her mother's nails as she went ballistic with her dad, now we all know he never did anything to deserve that, don't we? Listen to Marcella Rabwin rejoice at telling us how Lucy was not FUNNY, or how Carole Cook says she never, while wiping away tears yet, NEVER saw her playing with you as a child. Yeah, i love Carole, but was she there, living with them during their entire upbringing? I would ask that to Carole in person should i ever meet her. I'm saying these people told Lucie what she wanted to hear, and it's so dramatic and makes such a great documentary. If they knew she actually loved her mother, they wouldn't be so anxious to be brutally frank. Prove me wrong and i will back down, if Lucy was another Nancy Reagan, then i won't stop loving her or her talent, but i will think a little less of her parental skills, skills we keep saying were not shown to her by Saint De De who was busy working and leaving Lucy and Fred to fend for themselves. Lucy was always talking about those kids in interviews, concerned about their grades, she tried to be strict, they couldn't go to these houses unless there was supervision and she got tutors for them and brought them on to her show when she wanted to get them out of their troubled millieus and keep a closer eye on them, she was hands on and yes, maybe that biggest complaint of hers that i remember from that period that she got them for the schoolwork and Desi had them for vacation time played into it, but she also admitted that after ten minutes both her kids could wrap her around their little finger.

Ashley, what do you mean, you're going to speak up here, what, were you afraid to before? You have a right to voice an opinion, we all do. I remember going to Laura's site and reading some of those things that are said about poor Lucie and her fight to have a career when all the public wants to know about is her parents. Yes, that's true, if i met Lucie, i would think, wow, Lucille Ball's daughter, BUT, i would also acknowledge someone i watched on TV for six years on Here's Lucy and in countless pilots and TV movies and theatrical films, someone whose career i followed on Broadway and touring in stage shows, and how i admired her for taking her kids with her on those tours. And, especially hearing her mother RAVE about HER on talk shows. I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW MUCH TALENT THAT KID'S GOT, SHE IS TAKING CARE OF FIVE KIDS, A HOUSE, A GARDEN, SHE'S CANNING EVERYTHING, SHE GOES OUT THERE AND DANCES WITH TOMMY TUNE, I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW MUCH ENERGY SHE'S GOT, AND SHE'S DOING SO MUCH MORE WITH IT THAN I EVER DID! Those are just some of the phrases i remember Lucy voicing at the marvelous talent her beloved daughter had, imagine how great i feel that her daughter is returning the favor by telling the world what an uncaring unfeeling woman she was. That's my ONLY complain here!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Ashley, what do you mean, you're going to speak up here, what, were you afraid to before? You have a right to voice an opinion, we all do. I remember going to Laura's site and reading some of those things that are said about poor Lucie and her fight to have a career when all the public wants to know about is her parents. Yes, that's true, if i met Lucie, i would think, wow, Lucille Ball's daughter, BUT, i would also acknowledge someone i watched on TV for six years on Here's Lucy and in countless pilots and TV movies and theatrical films, someone whose career i followed on Broadway and touring in stage shows, and how i admired her for taking her kids with her on those tours. And, especially hearing her mother RAVE about HER on talk shows. I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW MUCH TALENT THAT KID'S GOT, SHE IS TAKING CARE OF FIVE KIDS, A HOUSE, A GARDEN, SHE'S CANNING EVERYTHING, SHE GOES OUT THERE AND DANCES WITH TOMMY TUNE, I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW MUCH ENERGY SHE'S GOT, AND SHE'S DOING SO MUCH MORE WITH IT THAN I EVER DID! Those are just some of the phrases i remember Lucy voicing at the marvelous talent her beloved daughter had, imagine how great i feel that her daughter is returning the favor by telling the world what an uncaring unfeeling woman she was. That's my ONLY complain here!

Yeah actually I kind of was a little nervous about voicing my opinion.. lol you know how people like to rip ya a part on here! I hate being ripped apart.

I also remember and take into account that Lucy was so much older than a normal mother, she was 39 and 42 when they were born, not in her twenties. She had these old fashionned ideas on everything and yes did rely on her mom and servants to take care of the kids while she worked. Hers was not a normal life, she was the Queen of television and she had to try and save Desilu after her womanizing drunk of a husband let it deteriorate to the point that she could have lost everything they had built up during their tenure as the two most popular people on the tube. Now, this is where i do what i always do when i want to be fair, i just mentionned two of Desi's attributes but i also add that he was a great man, caring and thoughtful of those around him, a genius in business, well in most cases anyway, some of that genius was atributed to Lucy's always building her husbands in the public eye. He would take his children by the hand to go watch a sunset, and yes he taught them to ride horses and swim and do so many other things, of course, it helped that he had them on their summer vacations to do all that. I also remember and wonder if Desi jr is still scarred by it, the time that Desi had a fit and claimed of his son, yelling and ranting and raving, CAN'T YOU DO ANYTHING? You little expletive deleted. How about the doors slamming when he got upset but could never actually say why to his kids, like Lucy herself going upstairs without telling them why, furious as usual over some little slight. It was a different time, they were under tremendous pressure, they did not get therapy like their children can so easily, it would have been scandalous back then. And Lucy and Desi weren't born with silver spoons in their mouths, they struggled and worked hard, everything was not just handed to them on a silver platter. Lucie should try and remember that and take it all into account, she can do whatever she wants for the rest of her life because those trust funds and those millions left by her parents and still generated by their memory provide for the lifestyle she currently enjoys. Finally, i LOVE the fact that she's inherited her parents' talented genes, but she could have skipped the frugality and bluntness ones!:lol:

Oh, one more thing, first of all Ashley, stop worrying, i'm here to defend you, i was scared by this place too, but at least here they talk about more important things than her shoe size, you know? One time Joan Rivers asked Lucy what if anything used to ANNOY her about her kids. Lucy answered, I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING THAT USED TO ANNOY ME, MAYBE THE FACT THAT THEY HAD TO GROW UP AT ALL, IN THE SIXTIES, THAT WAS TOUGH! And it was, imagine bringing up two teenagers with a husband who tries to get close to them and be the intermediary in fights, and another who spoils them to show his love. You bring them up with old fashionned values, you have a mother telling you, no if you LOVE them, you don't let them do those things. On the other hand you let your son go tour with a rock band at 12 or 13, was the lure of show business so strong for her that the woman who used to have a fit if a movie had anything scandalous in it, and stopped the film, even after Lucie would scream, mom, we've seen Thunderball 12 times at other people's houses, what's the problem. It was a time of hippies and the drug culture and the Vietnam war, AND she had to deal with taking the kids to Disneyland and Marineland and all these other places like even Europe on a break from the show. They got their cars, their credit cards, their allowances, their rooms filled with everything they could want or need, but not just a blank check, also a real caring mother who wanted to know what time they would be home and no going out on school nights and everything else a good parent does. And the proof that she did well is that they both turned out great, both very talented although the early Here's Lucy eps would prove otherwise, they eventually matured and got more experience and got into some great projects, in spite of the stigma attached to the offspring of Hollyweird celebrities. :cool:

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Oh, one more thing, first of all Ashley, stop worrying, i'm here to defend you, i was scared by this place too, but at least here they talk about more important things than her shoe size, you know? One time Joan Rivers asked Lucy what if anything used to ANNOY her about her kids. Lucy answered, I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING THAT USED TO ANNOY ME, MAYBE THE FACT THAT THEY HAD TO GROW UP AT ALL, IN THE SIXTIES, THAT WAS TOUGH! And it was, imagine bringing up two teenagers with a husband who tries to get close to them and be the intermediary in fights, and another who spoils them to show his love. You bring them up with old fashionned values, you have a mother telling you, no if you LOVE them, you don't let them do those things. On the other hand you let your son go tour with a rock band at 12 or 13, was the lure of show business so strong for her that the woman who used to have a fit if a movie had anything scandalous in it, and stopped the film, even after Lucie would scream, mom, we've seen Thunderball 12 times at other people's houses, what's the problem. It was a time of hippies and the drug culture and the Vietnam war, AND she had to deal with taking the kids to Disneyland and Marineland and all these other places like even Europe on a break from the show. They got their cars, their credit cards, their allowances, their rooms filled with everything they could want or need, but not just a blank check, also a real caring mother who wanted to know what time they would be home and no going out on school nights and everything else a good parent does. And the proof that she did well is that they both turned out great, both very talented although the early Here's Lucy eps would prove otherwise, they eventually matured and got more experience and got into some great projects, in spite of the stigma attached to the offspring of Hollyweird celebrities. :cool:

Thanks Claude ;)... I just cant believe that people go around saying "poor Lucie". Must be nice to be poor Lucie.. be born to the two most talented people in comedy. Wow. I wouldnt be complaining if I were her.

Yes, poor Lucie got 22 million in her mom's estate, as opposed to her dad who left heavily mortgaged houses due to their illnesses at the end. And she gets 1 million a year from the sale of the memorabilia, well, as long as she clips those coupons, she might get the three gorgeous kids through college. Then there are the material things left behind that are sold on e bay for loose change and walking around money, as Lucie said herself, her mother was a pack rat who saved everything. Anyway Lucie did do that nice tribute song at the Hall of Fame induction, and her brother looked great that night too, i'm sure that meant a lot to mama, knowing that the world could see her two great kids doing so well. She always cared so much about appearances. Which i think is why she'd be so furious right now with these quotes attributed to the daughter that meant so much to her.

Oh and being the son of an alcoholic who could not show love because his generation did not know how, i am very good at revenge and so i can see why Lucie named her daughter after Katharine Hepburn, and why she would go around praising Viv for streering her in the right direction career wise, that was the best way to hurt momma back!

I don't think she said that to hurt her Mom, I think she was just explaining how she developed an interest in theatre, wasn't she?

Yes i KNOW that, Viv told her the stage would be HER way of escaping the shadow of her mom's presence, but don't you think those things would HURT her? Lucy's first granddaughter named after her old RKO sidekick, however i can see why Lucie would not want her daughter named Lucille to cause confusion with her daughter, the way it had for her and her mother, but don't you think Desiree which was Lucy's middle name and also her grandmother's name would have been better?

No. Why should you have to name your children after your family predecessors? That way lies pointless tradition, and everybody having the same name. Besides, Desiree is a horrible name!

Why in the world does her daughter say such hateful things about her mother. When her father Desi was the one with such horrible problems. First of all he cheated on Lucy and from what I have read in the past. It has been with more than one woman. Plus the fact Desi was a complete sexist.

She wants people to feel sorry for her is her thing. Why would anyone want to feel sorry for her? She was a spoiled rich girl who sounds very conseded. She can't forgive her mom for putting a career first but she can forgive her father who cheated on her mom. And could have fathered more children with other women.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
don't you think Desiree which was Lucy's middle name and also her grandmother's name would have been better?

Not with the last name of Luckinbill:lol:

Originally posted by Mickey
No. Why should you have to name your children after your family predecessors? That way lies pointless tradition, and everybody having the same name. Besides, Desiree is a horrible name!

I've always thought Desiree was a very beautiful name. And it could be used to honor both Lucy and Desi. But actually, I think she should have named her daughter Diane Belmont Luckinbill.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Oh and being the son of an alcoholic who could not show love because his generation did not know how, i am very good at revenge and so i can see why Lucie named her daughter after Katharine Hepburn, and why she would go around praising Viv for streering her in the right direction career wise, that was the best way to hurt momma back!

I agree with you about both things. I've always wondered whether her claiming Viv was her biggest acting influence was meant to be a slap in her mother's face. She's spent far more of her professional life, and almost all of the early part of her professional life when she was developing as a performer, working with her mother. How is it possible for her mother not to have been the biggest influence? I don't find that statement credible. But then again, Lucy respected Vivian tremendously as a performer. She would have been more hurt if Lucie credited someone else other than Lucy's number one sidekick.

About naming her daughter after Katharine Hepburn, did Lucie ever even meet the woman? I wonder if Hepburn even knew she was her daughter's namesake?

Originally posted by Love, Lucy
Yeah actually I kind of was a little nervous about voicing my opinion.. lol you know how people like to rip ya a part on here! I hate being ripped apart.

Don't worry about that! We rip one another apart here in love. Come on and join in the fray. Consider it an honor if you get ripped apart by your lovable fellow fans!

Originally posted by Love, Lucy
Cause when I was there in May they still didnt have the stone, and they didnt really give us an answer as to why. They had lilacs around her spot though. :o

That's disgusting! More than a full year later and no headstone?! That is absolutely shameful.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
If you think about it, even that great documentary Lucy and Desi before the laughter, which i consider one of the all time best things i've ever seen in my life.

I really hope you meant “Lucy and Desi: A Home Movie.” I thought “Before the Laugher” was supposed to be a piece of crap, LOL!


Originally posted by SPLAIN
Listen to Lucie talk about her mother's nails as she went ballistic with her dad, now we all know he never did anything to deserve that, don't we?

I don’t believe that Lucie told that story to get back at her mother in a cruel way. I’m sure it was something that stood out to her during her parent’s divorce. Let’s face it: seeing your mother say “I wish you were dead” to your father has got to be traumatic when you are just eight, nine years old. That incident probably sticks out in her mind like a sore thumb. It’s not like Lucie didn’t address the fact that her father was a womanizer and alcoholic in the documentary. She did (although she made sure to mention that he had told her that he wasn’t as bad as people were saying he was. But if he were my dad, I’d mention that, too). Keep in mind that Lucie has also said that she admires both of her parents for not saying one bad thing about each other to the children after they had split up.


Originally posted by SPLAIN
Listen to Marcella Rabwin rejoice at telling us how Lucy was not FUNNY, or how Carole Cook says she never, while wiping away tears yet, NEVER saw her playing with you as a child. Yeah, i love Carole, but was she there, living with them during their entire upbringing?

I don’t see what is wrong with Marcella saying that Lucy wasn’t funny. Actually, I think the word she used was that Lucy was not ‘witty.’ Even Lucy herself could have told you that. Lucy said that she didn’t think funny; she rarely could come up with funny, witty things to say on the spot. As Marcella said, “Lucy was a very serious woman.” That’s not a bad thing; it’s just more insight into Lucy’s personality. In the same documentary, Marcella also told the story about how Lucy cheered her up in the hospital after she had a miscarriage, saying about Lucy: "She was wonderful!" That was a nice, positive story. And more insight into Lucy’s personality: she loved to strip! But, to be fair, in another book Marcella (at least I think it is her) said that she thought that Lucy viewed her children more as possessions than anything else. I think Marcella was closer with Desi…

As for Carole, that also struck me too that she said that Lucy didn’t play with her children, yet didn’t really know the kids during their youngest years. And the tears! But she was red-eyed through that whole interview. However, if that was how Carole saw things, I don’t mind hearing the truth. There’s no sense in sugar coating things.


Originally posted by SPLAIN
And, especially hearing her mother RAVE about HER on talk shows. I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW MUCH TALENT THAT KID'S GOT, SHE IS TAKING CARE OF FIVE KIDS, A HOUSE, A GARDEN, SHE'S CANNING EVERYTHING, SHE GOES OUT THERE AND DANCES WITH TOMMY TUNE, I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW MUCH ENERGY SHE'S GOT, AND SHE'S DOING SO MUCH MORE WITH IT THAN I EVER DID! Those are just some of the phrases i remember Lucy voicing at the marvelous talent her beloved daughter had, imagine how great i feel that her daughter is returning the favor by telling the world what an uncaring unfeeling woman she was.


Lucie didn’t fail to acknowledge that. On her website, in the Ask Lucie section that I mentioned earlier in this thread, someone asked her about how it was working with her mother on Lucie’s own pilot. Lucie replied that her mother was always her biggest supporter and that Lucy would tell her daughter that she was proud of her. She said that when the pilot wasn’t picked up, Lucy was more upset about it than she was.

Sorry, didn’t mean to pick on your posts, Claude, but you wrote so much and you know me – I only post when I really think that I have something to say. I live for these kinds of debates! ;)


Originally posted by Will and Grace Fanatic
She can't forgive her mom for putting a career first but she can forgive her father who cheated on her mom. And could have fathered more children with other women.

Very interesting theory, but I’ve heard more rumors surrounding Lucy having another child somewhere than I’ve heard about Desi fathering other children. It’s very possible, though.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
That's disgusting! More than a full year later and no headstone?! That is absolutely shameful.

My grandmother went a few years without getting around to putting a headstone on her mother's grave. She would dream about her mother every single night from the time that she died, then when she finally put a headstone there, the dreams stopped. Maybe Lucy will visit her daughter in her dreams so Lucie will get her butt in gear!

Originally posted by Lodee
Not with the last name of Luckinbill:lol:

That name doesn't go with anything. It's just not a pretty sounding name.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
I've always thought Desiree was a very beautiful name. And it could be used to honor both Lucy and Desi. But actually, I think she should have named her daughter Diane Belmont Luckinbill.

I Like Desiree too.

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
I really hope you meant “Lucy and Desi: A Home Movie.” I thought “Before the Laugher” was supposed to be a piece of crap, LOL!


It was a pile of crap. To quote The Comic Book Guy on the Simpsons: "Worst Biopic Ever."

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Speculative? I have heard pretty much the same story from three people who have known her,

And here's something else. Now I don't know when this happened, and you may take from it what you wish, but when I read it I thought, "Gee, sounds familiar!" Again, we're only hearing Tommy Tune's side here, but it seems kind of cold to me. And perhaps a bit Jekyll and Hyde? Read on:

STAR 12/02/97:

A worried Lucie Arnaz refused to kiss stage co-star Tommy Tune - because she was scared he'd give her AIDS.

And her terror almost ended their long friendship, dance ace Tune reveals in his new autobiography, 'Footnotes'.

The two had been co-starring for months in the road show of the romantic musical MY ONE AND ONLY - in which their characters lock lips more than 20 times.

But 30 minutes before a Saturday night curtain, Lucie told Tommy that all those stage kisses were now banned.

Tune thought she was afraid of giving him a cold.

Then she blurted: "No, I don't have a cold. But you might have AIDS."

Dumbfounded Tommy said they'd need extra rehearsal after the sudden change. But Lucie said: "I can't help it, I can't kiss you again."

The bisexual Tune admits that he understood Lucie's worries, but adds that her attitude "colored the rest of the tour for me. I was an untouchable. 'Does she know something I don't know?' I wondered. 'Do I have AIDS?' "

After that, the two stopped speaking to each other, and it appeared that a friendship that began when Lucie was 17 was finally finished.

But on the last night of their tour - at the moment when they went into their final clinch - Lucie gave Tommy a "long, sloppy soul kiss."

He recalls: "I'm thinking, 'We're behind in the music - we're supposed to be walking off into the sunset by now.' But we just stood there kissing and crying, and the curtain fell.

"We're close friends again and neither of us has AIDS."

Originally posted by dawsongirl
It was a pile of crap. To quote The Comic Book Guy on the Simpsons: "Worst Biopic Ever."

I agree. Anyone who knows ANYthing about Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz know that movie didn't even come close to depicting their personalities. While I'm sure Lucie hated it because it made Lucy look like a completely innocent victim in her marriage to Desi, I would have to agree it was not balanced. Lucy's bitchiness and strong will I'm sure contributed greatly to Desi's drinking and womanizing. Not that I'm excusing him, but who wants to come home to that every day? And being a macho latino man, I'm sure he couldn't stand her emasculating him.

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
Very interesting theory, but I’ve heard more rumors surrounding Lucy having another child somewhere than I’ve heard about Desi fathering other children. It’s very possible, though.

Very interesting you brought that up! This topic hasn't come up in a while, has it Claude. :lol: I've heard the same stories. There was a tabloid story a few years ago about Lucy having a long lost some, but the more credible one I've heard, which is whispered about Jamestown . . . I won't get into. :eek: Personally, and I've said this before, I find some of those stories about Lucy's early life -- going off to New York City alone at the tender age of 15, and being bedridden for two years -- a bit hard to believe. I think those stories were really a cover up for something else. And besides, if she had a child out of wedlock and had to give it up and could NEVER see it again, or if she did she'd lose her career (you've got to consider the stigma our society attached to things in those days; look at how Loretta Young went through life pertending the daughter she had by Clark Gable was adopted). Being permanently separated from her own child is likely to have done major damage and could explain a lot of her bitterness.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
imagine bringing up two teenagers with a husband who tries to get close to them and be the intermediary in fights, and another who spoils them to show his love.
. . .

a real caring mother who wanted to know what time they would be home and no going out on school nights and everything else a good parent does.
. . .


she got them for the schoolwork and Desi had them for vacation time
. . .


he taught them to ride horses and swim and do so many other things, of course, it helped that he had them on their summer vacations to do all that.

Claude, you're like an encyclopedia of Lucy's personal life. These are excellent points. And I can just imagine a typical confrontation with Lucie at the end of the summer:

"Okay Lucie, your grades weren't too hot last year. You've had all summer to ride horses and goof off in Del Mar with your father. Now you're back home and it's time to buckle down with your studies. Play time is over."

That sounds cold. And hearing those words may not have felt like love, but you know what? That's the greatest kind of love a parent can show a child -- caring enough for them to ensure they have the tools to succeed in life long after you're going. Play time with the kids is important, too, but it's essential that they develop their minds and learn self discipline. Lucille Ball was a notorious taskmaster with her colleagues, and with her own self. Does anyone really think she would have expected any less of her own children? I'm sure she was tough on her kids, but she was tough on everyone, herself included. If toughness and hard work was a value she believed in (and obviously she did) she surely wouldn't have thought she was showing love to her kids if she denied them that value.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
. . .
caring enough for them to ensure they have the tools to succeed in life long after you're going

That should read "long after you're GONE."

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
I've heard the same stories. There was a tabloid story a few years ago about Lucy having a long lost some,

Another goofy typo: that should read "long lost SON," not some.

Why in the world does her daughter say such hateful things about her mother. When her father Desi was the one with such horrible problems. First of all he cheated on Lucy and from what I have read in the past. It has been with more than one woman. Plus the fact Desi was a complete sexist.

Hmm. Desi was raised to believe that men should have as many women as possible. It didn't affect how much he loved his wife, but he had been raised to think that the more other women he had, the more of a man he was. He was also raised with the idea that his wife should practically encourage that, since it inferred that her husband was more of a man, which reflected well on her, particularly as the woman he always returned to. He was also raised to the culture of alcohol, and the belief that real men drank a hell of a lot. All of this is stuff that suggests great sexism, yes - but it's also a way of life, and was for a hell of a lot of people. It was who he was, and since he was also a genuinely nice bloke, in most people's opinions, it doesn't really seem fair to knock him for it. He should have adjusted, perhaps, to a more conventional Northern American attitude - but on the other hand Lucy was warned to be sure she knew what she was marrying, but didn't listen to anybody.

If Lucie relates better to her father than to her mother that's undestandable. For starters daughters are generally closer to their fathers than to their mothers. You can't knock her for loving her father more, especially since she saw him as the more loving parent. That's just the way that she saw things, and nobody should be slammed for their own personal interpretation of things. Whether or not it's fair for her to talk the way she does about Lucy is another matter. I have to say that I think she's too public about it. Any problems you happen to have with your parents should be a private matter, not a public one; but if she didn't get on well with Lucy, or like her very much, that's her opinion and she is entitled to it. She's also entitled to think that Desi was nicer, which again is fair enough. How faithful he was to Lucy has no relevance to how nice a person he was!

As for him being "a complete sexist" - back then everybody was, and most of the women are included in that! Given that he was married to a woman who was his equal in the workplace, I'd put him as rather less sexist than probably most of his contemporaries!

Ok, French Canadian who's too passionate about the subject tries to tackle too many things at once, but still, that's no excuse for calling that great documentary by the title of that awful TV movie. Lucy and Desi a home movie, the best documentary i ever saw, Lucy and Desi Before the Laughter, not as good obviously, but not as bad as people say either. Now, that Marcella line about the striptease must have been in the other two tapes because i 'm sure it wasn't in the documentary itself, if it had been, that would have balanced it out more and i wouldn't hate Marcella. And yes, she was more a Desi friend than a Lucy friend, she was their neighbor in Del Mar, and Desi got THAT house after the divorce. BUT, to prove that age old story, yes, every time Lucy would see the OLD gang, she would always ask about Desi. Now, children of divorce, there's a subject for you. It HAS to be hard, especially at their young age. Listen, that line from his book that Desi jr asked CAN'T YOU TAKE IT ALL BACK? gets me every time. But then again, i'm a romantic and a sucker for anything like that. Remember one thing here, I have always liked and admired Lucie Arnaz, if she is as blunt and direct as her mother, as everybody says, then like her mother, i hope she can also take it, her mom could, if you confronted her about something, she could be totally honest and let it all hang out, which is something to be admired. I agree with Brock that we should temper our criticisms because Lucie's children could be reading all this. Jane did the same thing as me, we KNOW stuff, but we don't bring it up, it is not what we are talking about here. So we are trying to be fair. I agree with Jane, i'm pissed too, i can't believe you can actually use words like that on this site, i like the calm and friendlyness of Lucy Talk, but i LOVE the frankness and anything goes attitude here as it makes for more interesting posts, let's face it, almost everything has been said and repeated a thousand times about Lucy, so we relish getting something new to dissect. Yes, Jane, you're right, i do know a lot about Lucy and i'm a year older than Lucie herself, i read every article and saw every interview with them, and i can tell you the hidden meanings, and the hidden truths, but it is because i've gone through all this before, for almost 15 years now, Lucie has been brutally honest, but the point, like someone else said is why didn't she do it when her mom could defend herself? Very simple, she'd be out of the will. Lucy would have been brutally honest and direct also, which is what we're all doing here, it's a shame this topic is being discussed on Lucy's birthday, but then again, maybe she would want us to reply for her. Oh and Desiree is a BEAUTIFUL name, i could not care less about tradition, i meant that it sounds great with Luckenbill, well, all right, nothing sounds great with THAT name, but i can still imagine the look on Lucy's face when they told her, oh Lucie decided to name her daughter, your granddaughter after Kate Hepburn.

Now Ricardos Forever, answer anything you want, i can take it, if you prove me wrong on anything, i will back down, that's the way i am, outspoken yes, but i always take it from someone who KNOWS what they're talking about. And i TOO live for these types of posts. I want to learn something new, even if it's not something i want to hear, as long as it helps me NOT look like a fool when i discuss something about LUCY.

This is the story on the name and Hepburn. A call came to the house on Roxbury and Lucy claimed it was the ONLY time she had ever seen Gary flustered by a call. Hepburn was on the line. He threw the phone at Lucy like it was a hot potato. Lucy talked to her old RKO comrade, they exchanged few pleasantries as they had not stayed in touch over the years. Kate just asked Lucy if her only granddaughter had indeed been named after her, Lucy told her it was true, and Kate said the name K A T H A R I N E LUCKENBILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, said something about it being LONG or something and that was it, they both hung up.

Of course, as you can see, i'm trying to answer everything in order, so i keep reading back. You're absolutely right Ricardos4ever, how traumatic for Lucie to see her mom voice the statement I WISH YOU WERE DEAD. Was she also traumatized by her father's thousands of indiscretions over almost twenty years, do that to me and i will say the same thing, if not worse! Carole Cook wasn't there all those years to see Lucy playing with the kids or not, and if Lucy knew Carole was coming over, would she spend her time with Carole or leave her alone so she could go play with the kids while Carole is there visiting?

When i first heard about the lack of a headstone, i thought, oh, here we go again, they're dickering over price, Lucie apparently is as frugal as her mother was, nothing wrong with that, in moderation, i even joked on another board that maybe us fans should take up a collection. This next statement is a tricky one, maybe the reason Lucie keeps saying that she got nothing from her mom when she died is there are more than a few kids being taken care of everywhere, who knows? It would explain the NO FUNERAL, which also bugged me. Then again, Lucy did not WANT a circus to happen when she died, so they had these memorial services instead.

Yes, it could not have been easy for Desi, or even Gary to go around town being referred to as MR Ball all the time. That point you made Jane about her emasculating him is very relevant to his behavior. If you bring up the stories about Jamestown and how they are treating Lucy's memory, you get back on topic that she should NEVER have been moved back there, it's NOT what she wanted. Now, one other thing, in defence of Lucie's behavior, how would you like being the child of a couple of superstars your whole life and you try and get out from under their shadow, you try and have a career all your own only to find people come up to you almost decades after they've passed and still ask and talk about them. Yes, you could answer that she lives off their money and their legacy make her a big name in the entertainment industry, but it has to annoy someone as talented as she that it still goes on and never will end!

Yes, my first clue that there was more to the moving to New York at 15 story were the books that are written by professionals who know that in bios, the worst thing you can have in your life is an unexplained period of time that you can't account for, in Lucy's case, almost two years. Most of us KNOW what the real reason was, or suspect because we can't really KNOW. But she herself went from one story, of the arthritis to the other one about the car accident. Who cares? It's none of our business.

We're here to pay homage to her and her talents, discuss her life, the good and the bad. Hopefully some of us can even learn from her mistakes, she always claimed that she DID! As a mentor, she is terrific. And one final note, i always admired Lucie for taking her kids on her tours with her. She was raised by her parents, her grandmother and servants. In a perfect world, her parents would have retired after I Love Lucy and spent all their time with HER and her brother. Of course, it wouldn't have been so perfect, her father might have drunk himself to death sooner or they would have divorced earlier, as lucy would have gone nuts by not working when she lived for that, and Lucie would have been the daughter of two has beens. Instead, she is an excellent entertainer, i would love to see her as a talk show host, because like Roseanne Barr, she would never be boring. BUT, she has to remember that some of us on te boards are LUCY FANS, some of us for decades and decades and we hate to see our mentor trashed. We don't mind the honesty, but we like a balanced picture, that's all. When i talk about Lucy, i always say i came to the boards to find out why she behaved the way she did, now there's a topic! When i talk about Desi, i see that the description that fits him best is that he was an open wound, i understand that, been there, done that. But all Lucie had to do in my humble opinion was to temper her criticism by giving a more balanced picture, Lucy was certainly not perfect, neither was Desi, neither is Lucie, neither am I. We're all human, and hopefully like Lucy, we too learn from our mistakes. I disagree and agree with Jane, celebrities are usually not worth our adulation, i also think Jimmy Carter or Eleanor Roosevelt are better role models, BUT, Lucy was my babysitter and my mentor and i will always defend her and love her till the day i die, i learned from her, i adopted some of her better qualities like helping others and not whining about evverything to everybody, standing on my own two feet and getting on with my life. Sorry about the preacher aspect of all that, i'm just drained right now!

That was the perfect post Claude... just wanted to let you know that!! ;).

Thanks Ash, i rambled as usual, but it was from my heart and i meant every single word of it and could have said worse things, but that's not what my aim was, it was to discuss, not to enflame. Every time i post anything on Lucie, i think of Laura, a real doll as Lucy would say who is Lucie's biggest fan, you have to take other people's feelings into account, sometimes when angry, i forget that. I'm sure when i read the whole thing in that book in a few weeks, it will start all over again, but i will try and temper my anger and see both sides of the entire situation, a trait i wish Lucie would acquire also. AND from what Ricardos4ever said, maybe she has already and that quote was taken out of context, as they usually do to sell books!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Now, that Marcella line about the striptease must have been in the other two tapes because i 'm sure it wasn't in the documentary itself, if it had been, that would have balanced it out more and i wouldn't hate Marcella.

The striptease story was in the main documentary "A Home Movie." I actually popped the tape in last week and was watching some of it, and she did tell that story.

I'll have to watch it again myself because i've read that story in a book, but have never heard Marcella tell it herself, however, maybe i was still working on that Lucy wasn't witty line of hers and then while in a rage, i lost my hearing temporarily as the blood rushed to my head, and . . . Yes i know she wasn't witty, she said that about herself, it's just that by that point, i had heard way too many of Marcella's stories to believe anything she said. Did you know that I Love Lucy was conceived in HER living room? Well, not litterally, she added, it just makes a better story you see. I just meant that if Lucie gathered people to be on this documentary, grant you, not that many were still alive by then, but still, she maybe focused on the ones with similar viewpoints as hers, if not, she still would certainly not interview people who worshipped her mother and would give differing views, or so it seemed. Hey, what did you think of the rest of my tape? I sent you a PM at Lucy Talk, but have not gotten a reply. I'd love to convince Jane to take one too, she sure has brightened up my time on the boards as you and Ash and Mick and a few others have, wish i could get in touch with Lucy Fan also, what a post count she's got!

I absolutely loved the rest of the tape, thanks again! Sorry about the PM, I'm kinda slow about that kind of thing (I'm better about the PMs here because they warn you through e-mail) but I'll check it later on and get back to you in more detail.

Hey, maybe you don't remember that part of "A Home Movie" (the Marcella part) because it may have been edited out to comply with the time constraints when they put it on television. Of course, this would only explain it if you have a version that was recorded it off of TV. I bought my tape off of the internet, and it says on the box that it has footage that didn't make the television version. Just a thought.

I do remember that part about her saying that she'd like to think that ILL was created in her living room -- that was in "A Home Movie", too. She said that, in her living room, the dialogue started about trying to think of a way that Lucy and Desi could live together for a prolonged period of time. That's a big jump to make, I agree. I've always found what Marcella had say to be rather interesting, despite tidbits like the above. However, she's certainly not camera shy, and Lucy and Desi weren't the only famous people she knew. I've seen her on some other documentary, like E! True Hollywood Story (which I love and wish that they would make one about Lucy and Desi, God only knows why they haven't...but I doubt they will now). I can't remember who she was on there to talk about -- it may have been Judy Garland.

All in all, I believe that "A Home Movie" was pretty fair. It seemed that some people had positive things to say about Lucy and negative things to say also. Like Carole Cook. She made the comment that you mentioned earlier about not playing with the children, yet she came across as someone who was Lucy's biggest fan and still seemed to be in shock that she was actually friends with her. There was a bit of a balance there.

I can't wait to see the new documentary, "Desilu" that is coming on in a few weeks. Lucie endorced it, and it is supposed to be a companion to "A Home Movie" which focuses on the business side of things. I don't think (or know) if Lucie had anything to do with it's creation, but it'll be interesting to see how fair it treats Lucy and Desi.

Thanks for the answer on the documentary, of course that's what happened, as i taped it off the air when it played originally and my complaints about certain aspects of it here are only in relation to the thread about Lucie that we are discussing as i have always thought that was one of the best LUCY things i've ever seen in my life. The OLD footage was unbelievable and actually having some faces to go with the mental images from the books ai had read were a dream come true. Marcella was not only married to Lucy and Desi's doctor and a neighbor at Del Mar, but she was Seltznick's secretary when Lucy auditionned for Gone with the Wind, another GREAT story! I saw her also on another A and E bio and she looked a lot older and she passed a way a few years ago i believe. She was very interesting to listen to and i have nothing against her, i just made a comment about her choice of stories, you have to remember that they are talking to Lucie in those scenes.

Carole was kicked out of Lucy's millieu by Gary and in my opinion should have fought to stay in there, but apparently he did that with everybody from Desi's era. Another thing i always wonder about is why Lucie and Desi jr are two of the few people that never have anything bad to say about Gary. Obviously he had to treat her mother and her kids differently as Lucy would not have tolerated it, but why would Lucie think he was so great if everybody else blames him for the demise of her career, just another point for us to discuss here! Anyway, hearing Lucie and Desi jr say this, it always forced me to rethink my position on Gary, how could the kids who LIVED with them say good things about him, was he ok in the house but terrible where her career was involved. One FINAL thought today, you say you don't know about Lucie's involvement in the Desilu project, that's another sore point with me that i will stop blaming Lucie for if someone can assure me that she is not teh reason Lucy is never featured on any A and E bios of other stars connected to Lucy in some way. I assumed that she asked for too much money for the pictures and mentions of Lucy and Desi to be authorized the way Fred Astaire's wife blocked scenes of Fred to be shown at the Kennedy Center tribute to Ginger Rogers. I would also like to know how The Lucy show could lose it's rights for some episodes over the years and why Here's Lucy is not out for all of us to enjoy when Lucie herself is prominently featured in those shows? If Lucie's not bothering to read a script for that recent Lucy movie was too time consuming for her, i wonder if this extends to everything relating to her parents. Because they wouldn't PAY her for her trouble, is that it? Seems to me any one of us here could have caught the errors in that lousy script. Just wish she would devote a little more time to really helping her parents legacy, but i also understand she has her own life, career and kids to take care of. If that's the case she could hire someone to do that job, oh yeah, that would mean paying something again. You know it can't all just come in, sometimes some of that cash has to go out too! Anyway, prove me wrong and i'll be the happiest fan there is, if CBS is to blame or Gary's widow or greedy merchandisers, i'll be happy if it's not Lucy's own kids doing the dirty work. I grew up with those kids, followed their careers, still do as a matter of fact, careers that mama started for them and guided them through and is looking down on now.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Another thing i always wonder about is why Lucie and Desi jr are two of the few people that never have anything bad to say about Gary. Obviously he had to treat her mother and her kids differently as Lucy would not have tolerated it, but why would Lucie think he was so great if everybody else blames him for the demise of her career, just another point for us to discuss here!

Maybe Lucie and Desi jr are well aware of the bad things that are said about Gary by other people, and want to emphasize to the public that we was a good stepfather to them and had some positive character traits.


Originally posted by SPLAIN
One FINAL thought today, you say you don't know about Lucie's involvement in the Desilu project, that's another sore point with me that i will stop blaming Lucie for if someone can assure me that she is not teh reason Lucy is never featured on any A and E bios of other stars connected to Lucy in some way. I assumed that she asked for too much money for the pictures and mentions of Lucy and Desi to be authorized the way Fred Astaire's wife blocked scenes of Fred to be shown at the Kennedy Center tribute to Ginger Rogers.

Wow, that never even crossed my mind as being the reason why A & E and E! True Hollywood Story never do shows on Lucy and Desi. It seems like E! has done an episode on everybody else in the world, except for Lucy and Desi. And they were the most famous people in the country in the 50s! But I guess you are right, it all has to do with who owns the rights to the footage, photos, etc.


Originally posted by SPLAIN
If Lucie's not bothering to read a script for that recent Lucy movie was too time consuming for her, i wonder if this extends to everything relating to her parents. Because they wouldn't PAY her for her trouble, is that it?


It could also be that Lucie was so disgusted with the last biopic, “Before the Laughter,” that she figured that they would never get the story right and always exploit the negative aspects of her parents, and decided not even to waste her time trying.


Originally posted by Mickey
Lucie said in a recent interview in a British magazine (Telegraph On Saturday I think) that she loved her mother, sure, but she was closer to her father because they have much more similar personalities, looked at life the same way, and were just generally the kind of people fated to be closer. That's just the way it goes sometime.

It is strange that Lucie says that she was closer to her father, because on her website someone asked her the same question: who were you closest to? And this was what she had to say:

Lucie: "This was probably the hardest question to answer of the whole batch. I was very close to BOTH of my parents and "estranged" from each of them, emotionally. There was great need and great passion on all sides, but, that doesn't always equal closeness. Ours was never a simple relationship. They were BOTH very complicated and complex people...as am I. I adored them and never got enough of them, I'm sure. I would hate to think that I was actually "closer" to one than the other. I feel they are both even closer to me now."

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Carole was kicked out of Lucy's millieu by Gary and in my opinion should have fought to stay in there, but apparently he did that with everybody from Desi's era. Another thing i always wonder about is why Lucie and Desi jr are two of the few people that never have anything bad to say about Gary. Obviously he had to treat her mother and her kids differently as Lucy would not have tolerated it, but why would Lucie think he was so great if everybody else blames him for the demise of her career, just another point for us to discuss here!

Yikes...there's a whole other barrel of rabid monkeys just waiting to break loose! :lol:

100 posts as I said....well just over a hundred, but you get the point.


My psychic abilities to determine which thread will spark the most response remains intact, lol.

This was all perfectly well put, Mickey.

Originally posted by Mickey

If Lucie relates better to her father than to her mother that's undestandable. For starters daughters are generally closer to their fathers than to their mothers. You can't knock her for loving her father more, especially since she saw him as the more loving parent. That's just the way that she saw things, and nobody should be slammed for their own personal interpretation of things. Whether or not it's fair for her to talk the way she does about Lucy is another matter. I have to say that I think she's too public about it. Any problems you happen to have with your parents should be a private matter, not a public one; but if she didn't get on well with Lucy, or like her very much, that's her opinion and she is entitled to it. She's also entitled to think that Desi was nicer, which again is fair enough. How faithful he was to Lucy has no relevance to how nice a person he was!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
You're absolutely right Ricardos4ever, how traumatic for Lucie to see her mom voice the statement I WISH YOU WERE DEAD.

A person only makes a statement like that when their spirit has been completely destroyed. You know the old saying about how there is a very fine line between love and hate. Lucy loved Desi more than life itself. It was because of that intense love that his indiscretions and betrayals took such a toll and nearly destroyed her. This had to be one of those moments when she was pushed over that line from love to hate. There is an awful lot of pain in that statement.

Originally posted by dawsongirl
Yikes...there's a whole other barrel of rabid monkeys just waiting to break loose! :lol:

Go for it. Let those monkeys free! Is there something you want to say about Gary? Inquiring minds here. :talk:

Originally posted by That Other Fan
100 posts as I said....well just over a hundred, but you get the point.


My psychic abilities to determine which thread will spark the most response remains intact, lol.

I'm glad your quota has been met. Now you can open up your own psychic hotline.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Now, one other thing, in defence of Lucie's behavior, how would you like being the child of a couple of superstars your whole life and you try and get out from under their shadow, you try and have a career all your own only to find people come up to you almost decades after they've passed and still ask and talk about them.

Whine, whine, whine. She's been crying this same old sad song for 25 years and she gets NO sympathy from me. She could have chosen from a thousand different career options, but it was HER decision to go into show business. OF COURSE being the daughter of showbiz heavyweights, by deciding to work in the same business she will always be compared to them and asked about them. She would have to have been a dope not to realize that. If your parents excel in something and you choose to follow in their footsteps, you had better be prepared to have them as a reference point in your career. This is one of the reasons I chose to do something completely different than my parents: I wanted to be sure I could be absolutely my own person and not in any way be an extension of them. If you can't take the heat, get OUT of the kitchen!

Obviously Lucie knew she already had a leg up in this business. Talented she is, but there are hundreds of thousands of others who are equally talented, but most of those people can't even make a living for themselves in of this business because they don't have the additional mileage gained from a name like Arnaz, or a mother who gave them national exposure for six years in a weekly big network television series. She made her choice so she has to live with it and all its consequences.

How many times have I heard her say she was closer to her father than her mother? Now we're back to this? This is a very nice response but . . . is this the return of Dr. Hyde?

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
Lucie: "This was probably the hardest question to answer of the whole batch. I was very close to BOTH of my parents and "estranged" from each of them, emotionally. There was great need and great passion on all sides, but, that doesn't always equal closeness. Ours was never a simple relationship. They were BOTH very complicated and complex people...as am I. I adored them and never got enough of them, I'm sure. I would hate to think that I was actually "closer" to one than the other. I feel they are both even closer to me now."

You must really have been something in debate class!

If Lucie was disgusted with the TV movie Before the laughter, shouldn't she have WANTED to make sure that wouldn't happen again with the new Lucy tv movie? At least by taking a couple of hours to read a script they sent to her, and maybe her making little markings in the margins about the most glaring errors? She could even have gotten her secretary to do that, even SHE would have known about the most glaring ones!

Get me to a shrink FAST! I've wanted that myself, to see someone i truly LOVED with all my heart betray me and not care for me and hurt me over and over, so i too wished death as a solution in my daydreams instead of dumping the person and getting on with my life. These things from our childhood take years to solve with therapy, Lucie should take heart, it takes forever and is very painful, i hope one day she can work everything out in her mind and learn to just LET IT GO! But you're right, it does sound like whining to most of us!

Maybe it sounds like whining because we see someone grow up in the lap of luxury in Beverly Hills and other homes and exotic trips and everything you wish for you can have, but then you wake up and realize that the more important things in life are LOVE and having a career to keep you going, and health and friends and a supportive family and especially nowadays we look back and see things differently but back then they didn't have Oprah and Dr Phil to dissect everything and they weren't equipped back then to deal with all of this the way we do today, GEEZ, that was some phrase, i'd better stop, just rambling at this point. So do we switch to Gary now, or what?

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
I'm glad your quota has been met. Now you can open up your own psychic hotline.


I think I will


That Other Fan's psychic hotline

Want telepathic help determining which threads will garner the most response? Want to know which taboo topics to bring up to garner a huge thread? Want to spark countless hours of useless debate....well pick up the phone and dial....

1900- Waste Your Money And I Will Con You Into Believing I can See The Future

Again that's

1900- Waste Your Money And I Will Con You Into Believing I can See The Future

Each call costs $3,526.32 a second...basically, just give me all of your worldly possessions and we'll call it even.


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*for entertainment purposes ONLY...basically, I will steal your money...ENJOY*

Okay That Other Fan, our resident psychic (or psychotic, as Ethel would say:) ) - how many posts would I end up with for the topic - Desi was way better than Lucy. Discuss. ?!

:wave:

Originally posted by Mickey
Okay That Other Fan, our resident psychic (or psychotic, as Ethel would say:) ) - how many posts would I end up with for the topic - Desi was way better than Lucy. Discuss. ?!

:wave:


I see...I see...I see


20 - 50 post total

Depending upon your skills to instigate, and/or what you bring up within the topic.

What was Desi better than Lucy at?

Cheating on a spouse for years...Yes, I would agree, Desi was better at this than Lucy.
:wave: :D ;)

I couldn't help it...just a small dig at Desi. :lol:

BTW, that'll be $52,495.56

No credit or checks accepted :)


lol

He was better at cheating, gambling, drinking, oh, lots of things! BUT NOT AS HARD WORKING, OR TALENTED or enduring, just kidding there Mick, as you were! Desi was a very talented singer, a so so actor, but a perfect straight man, a great father, a generous man, a superb human being who cared about people around him, the life of the party, a man who truly enjoyed life, a hard worker who was a great boss, i could go on for days, but let me end in by saying he had great taste in women, especially that ONE time, when he met the LOVE of his life. And his MEAL ticket, oops, went too far! LOL!

Originally posted by That Other Fan

Cheating on a spouse for years...Yes, I would agree, Desi was better at this than Lucy.
:wave: :D ;)

I couldn't help it...just a small dig at Desi. :lol:

To be fair, here's a small dig at Lucy:

Everyone always seems to want to label Desi as the cheater. Desi may have cheated on Lucy while they were married, but Lucy was no stranger to this behavior either. She had already taken on the role of the "other woman" in her dating life before she had met Desi. Dating a married man is just as bad as cheating on your wife, in my opinion.

Ok, maybe that'll stir things up a little. :wave:

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
To be fair, here's a small dig at Lucy:

Everyone always seems to want to label Desi as the cheater. Desi may have cheated on Lucy while they were married, but Lucy was no stranger to this behavior either. She had already taken on the role of the "other woman" in her dating life before she had met Desi. Dating a married man is just as bad as cheating on your wife, in my opinion.

Ok, maybe that'll stir things up a little. :wave:

Stir things up alittle :lol:

True it's just as bad...of course in Lucy's defense once she met Desi she never did that again. Desi on the other hand...:rolleyes:

lol:wave:

Everybody in Hollywood cheats, even Bob Hope had women all over town. They're the beautiful people, or rich people in Bob's case,so people are always throwing themselves at them. I always loved Bogart's line when he saw them all gussied up and assembled at a big Hollyweird soiree, he said NO WONDER THEY ALL **** EACH OTHER!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Everybody in Hollywood cheats, even Bob Hope had women all over town. They're the beautiful people, or rich people in Bob's case,so people are always throwing themselves at them. I always loved Bogart's line when he saw them all gussied up and assembled at a big Hollyweird soiree, he said NO WONDER THEY ALL **** EACH OTHER!

lol gotta love bogie!! :)

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
To be fair, here's a small dig at Lucy:

Everyone always seems to want to label Desi as the cheater. Desi may have cheated on Lucy while they were married, but Lucy was no stranger to this behavior either. She had already taken on the role of the "other woman" in her dating life before she had met Desi. Dating a married man is just as bad as cheating on your wife, in my opinion.

You are absolutely right. They even had a little bungalow where they could go and have their trysts behind his wife's back. That was Pandro Berman, right? And later on, when Lucy was ENGAGED to Alexander Hall, she hooked up with Desi and they had sex practically the day they met. And Desi was also engaged to someone else when that happened. So they were both cheating. Maybe this is one of the reasons Lucie comes to her father's defense about the cheating thing, knowing her mother had done the same sort of thing. She was a married man's concubine, then later Desi hooked up with all kinds of women who were doing the same thing to Lucy that she had done to another man's wife. What goes around comes around.

Originally posted by That Other Fan
Stir things up alittle :lol:

True it's just as bad...of course in Lucy's defense once she met Desi she never did that again. Desi on the other hand...:rolleyes:

lol:wave:

Really? Supposedly there was someone she was with towards the end of her marriage to Desi and Desi was threatening to expose it to the world. There's also a rumor that she had an affair with Red Buttons behind Desi's back. I don't know whether that's true, though.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Maybe it sounds like whining because we see someone grow up in the lap of luxury in Beverly Hills and other homes and exotic trips and everything you wish for you can have, but then you wake up and realize that the more important things in life are LOVE and having a career to keep you going, and health and friends and a supportive family and especially nowadays we look back and see things differently but back then they didn't have Oprah and Dr Phil to dissect everything and they weren't equipped back then to deal with all of this the way we do today, GEEZ, that was some phrase, i'd better stop, just rambling at this point. So do we switch to Gary now, or what?

Lucie was born with a silver spoon in her mouth. She was literally GIVEN a career in showbiz, beginning with a co-starring role on a major television series WITHOUT having had any real experience or training. And she's been able to fulfill her dream of performing without ever having to worry about money. And thanks to being the daughter of Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz, she was about as well connected in the entertainment industry than anyone could ever hope to be. Just by virtue of having that name, I doubt if she would ever have to look far to find a job. Such is the impact on the world of Lucy and Desi, I think regardless of the passage of time, Lucie and Desi BOTH will always have opportunities available to them if they want them. Desi has chosen in recent years to withdraw from show business, but if he ever decides to come back, I'm sure someone will take him.

Originally posted by That Other Fan
BTW, that'll be $52,495.56

No credit or checks accepted :)


lol

I hope you do better than Miss Cleo and the Psychic Network. Remember them? They used to have Dionne Warwick doing infomercials about them, until they went bankrupt. Question: If they were such good psychics, why couldn't they have predicted that they would go bankrupt? And why couldn't Miss Cleo predict that her organization would wind up in legal trouble?

Now now Jane - everybody knows that psychics have problems predicting their own futures!

We hav Mystic Meg in the UK. She used to do a weekly TV spot predicting who had the best chance in the National Lottery. Imagine the most annoying woman you can, then stick her in a long dark wig and a beaded head band, then put her in a TV studio in front of three hundred slightly drunk, sceptical members of the public, and try to guess why she lost her TV slot fairly early on...

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Really? Supposedly there was someone she was with towards the end of her marriage to Desi and Desi was threatening to expose it to the world. There's also a rumor that she had an affair with Red Buttons behind Desi's back. I don't know whether that's true, though.

I believe Desi hinted at this in his book, correct?

Or was it "Desilu"?

Whichever book it came from, technically the marriage was over by that point. Lucy and Desi were together only because of the commitments they shared. If it weren't for the contracts in place, they could’ve divorced year or two before they actually did. Although, if it's true, we have no clue when Lucy’s affair began.

I hope you do better than Miss Cleo and the Psychic Network. Remember them? They used to have Dionne Warwick doing infomercials about them, until they went bankrupt. Question: If they were such good psychics, why couldn't they have predicted that they would go bankrupt? And why couldn't Miss Cleo predict that her organization would wind up in legal trouble?

Being a fake psychic myself, driven solely by my greed for material possessions (BTW, Mickey, you owe me $52,495.56...I WANT MY MONEY), I'd have to say people don't realize just how difficult it is to predict the future. To predict a "huge" corporation such as the psychic network going bankrupt would take hours, and hours. Not mention a fairly large check to compensate for all of the stress and mental fatigue I would endure. :p :D

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
You are absolutely right. They even had a little bungalow where they could go and have their trysts behind his wife's back. That was Pandro Berman, right?

Yes it was Pandro Berman, whose wife was about to have a baby when the affair began. And during this time, she became engaged to someone else. He later dumped her when he found out that she was still seeing Pandro behind his back. So there was cheating all over the place, no different from Desi.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Maybe this is one of the reasons Lucie comes to her father's defense about the cheating thing, knowing her mother had done the same sort of thing. She was a married man's concubine, then later Desi hooked up with all kinds of women who were doing the same thing to Lucy that she had done to another man's wife. What goes around comes around.

I agree. People always wanna portray Lucy as the poor victim, and in some ways she was, but she had seen things through Desi's standpoint before; she had been the cheater, the homewrecker, whatever you wanna call it. Who knows, maybe she did wise up in her later years, realizing how much it hurt to sit at home knowing, or suspecting, that her husband was out with another woman. Maybe she did realize what she had done when she was younger was wrong. Hollywood or not, there's still no excuse. It was wrong.

I also agree with their relationship did begin with both of them cheating, and it makes you wonder why she married him knowing that he was a cheater. Maybe she thought that married life would change him. But even when they were dating, they'd always call each other up and have terrible fights because they each thought the other was messing around. So if she knew (or thought) that he was cheating when they were dating, she should have thought twice before marrying him. She really can't complain too, too much.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Really? Supposedly there was someone she was with towards the end of her marriage to Desi and Desi was threatening to expose it to the world.

That story was from Desi's autobiography. Lucy was telling him that she had enough information on him to take him for all that he was worth, so he want upstairs and got a piece of paper which had, in Lucy's handwriting, a man's name, address and phone number. It was blackmail material more than anything else. They had each other over the same barrel. Really, that piece of paper could have been anything. It could have been 15 years old, from when they were separated the first time. I guess we'll never know, but it was significant enough to make her blush when he showed it to her.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
There's also a rumor that she had an affair with Red Buttons behind Desi's back. I don't know whether that's true, though.

Red Buttons!!!?? Now there's a new one! Lordy!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Everybody in Hollywood cheats, even Bob Hope had women all over town. They're the beautiful people, or rich people in Bob's case,so people are always throwing themselves at them. I always loved Bogart's line when he saw them all gussied up and assembled at a big Hollyweird soiree, he said NO WONDER THEY ALL **** EACH OTHER!

That's why Hollywood people suck. Oh...you really don't want to get me started on that. And it'll be off topic anyway.

Hey Ricardos4Ever - great new picture! Are they standing beside a Christmas tree, do you know? Lucy looks a little odd, like she's trying to play the aultry temptress or something - and don't they look young!

(See dawsongirl, the rest of us all go off topic, don't feel you should have to hold back! :) )

No, Mickey, they aren't in front of a Christmas tree. There is just a lot of lights around them. I tried to post the whole pic up here so that you could see it, but it didn't work for some reason:(. Everytime I see that picture, Desi always reminds me more of Desi, Jr. then himself. I don't know why.

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
No, Mickey, they aren't in front of a Christmas tree. There is just a lot of lights around them. I tried to post the whole pic up here so that you could see it, but it didn't work for some reason:(. Everytime I see that picture, Desi always reminds me more of Desi, Jr. then himself. I don't know why.

Wow, that's one great picture! I love the colors. Those colors remind me, too, of Christmas. And they look like one hot couple in that picture! Both of them, absolutely gorgeous, totally hot! And there's a look of seering passion in their eyes. If that isn't a Christmas tree they're standing next to, whatever it is, they look like they're going jump under it and go at it with eachother like animals for the next couple of hours. That picture speaks volumes! Beautiful!

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
Yes it was Pandro Berman, whose wife was about to have a baby when the affair began. And during this time, she became engaged to someone else. He later dumped her when he found out that she was still seeing Pandro behind his back. So there was cheating all over the place, no different from Desi.

My gosh, Berman's wife was pregnant when that was going on? That's horrible. Utterly shameful, Lucy and Berman both.


I also agree with their relationship did begin with both of them cheating, and it makes you wonder why she married him knowing that he was a cheater.

She even used to say she that friends gave her marriage six months, she only gave it six weeks. Why on earth would someone go through with a marriage knowing it's going to fail? I suspect they had some deep psychological thing going on. There was this intense anger-passion, frustrated desire thing they had with one another that seemed to drive them. Couldn't live with eachother, couldn't live without one another.


Red Buttons!!!?? Now there's a new one! Lordy!

Hey, again I can't verify that one at all. For her to fall for Red Buttons over gorgeous Desi, she had to have been pretty pissed off at Desi.

Originally posted by dawsongirl
That's why Hollywood people suck. Oh...you really don't want to get me started on that. And it'll be off topic anyway.

Oh come on, let it out! I'd love to get you started on that. :lol: I think we probably have some common ground there. Besides, technically it's still on topic.

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
Yes it was Pandro Berman, whose wife was about to have a baby when the affair began. And during this time, she became engaged to someone else. He later dumped her when he found out that she was still seeing Pandro behind his back.

I wonder if Desi's mother knew about Lucy's history? Having an affair with a married man with a pregnant wife. Getting engaged to another man but still fooling around with the married man. Gee, sounds like a soap opera! I'm surprised Lucie's never tackled any of this stuff. But remember that scene in the "Lucy" tv movie a few months ago when she tells Desi Lucy doesn't have any class? This sort of behavior seems to support that. By the way, who did Lucy become engaged to when she was still fooling around with Pandro Berman? Obviously it wasn't Alexander Hall because she it was Lucy who dumped him when she started cheating on him with Desi.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
I wonder if Desi's mother knew about Lucy's history? Having an affair with a married man with a pregnant wife. Getting engaged to another man but still fooling around with the married man. Gee, sounds like a soap opera! I'm surprised Lucie's never tackled any of this stuff. But remember that scene in the "Lucy" tv movie a few months ago when she tells Desi Lucy doesn't have any class?

Clarification: the scene I'm referring to in that TV movie is Desi's MOTHER saying that Lucy doesn't have any class, not Lucie. And again, who was it that Lucy become engaged to when she was still fooling around with Pandro Berman?

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
Oh come on, let it out! I'd love to get you started on that. :lol: I think we probably have some common ground there. Besides, technically it's still on topic.

:lol: I could, but I'll save SPLAIN the trouble of telling me it doesn't belong here. He knows what I mean.

But basically, without names, I hate all these actors and actresses that think they can screw anyone at anytime just because they're famous. Whatever happened to true love and commitment? And the women and men that throw themselves at stars...ugh.

Hey, i'm just happy you didn't give me heck for the **** thing! Guess you can say anything here! Ok the fooling around thing. Lucy and Desi both played the field BEFORE they were married. This is Hollywood we're talking about, EVERYBODY does the same thing, except nowadays it's with gerbils and sometimes they even KILL people. In Hollywood, celebrity let's you even get away with MURDER if you want. If I were Lucy and my spouse was fooling around with everybody in a skirt, prostitutes yet, and making me the laughingstock of Beverly Hills, i would give him a taste of his own medicine also, so she did, good for her! When they do it discreetly like Hope, nobody minds, you know as long as the public doesn't get to know till YEARS later. I too was shocked to learn of Red Buttons, what's ironic is he was there at the Oscars the year she went to present, with Hope, a month before she died, he was seen on the red carpet. Maybe she got to see a lot of ex lovers that night, who knows? I also was shocked when i read of Pan Berman, and his wife, yes, it would have been hard for me to sympathize with her when Desi was doing it, if i had known that at the time. And i also know saying THEY ALL DID IT back then, and still do, is no excuse. Hey, i never said she was perfect, but saying the Latino culture is an excuse for him is also wrong. I always thought the slip of paper said Gary's name, what do you think?

Hey Dawsongirl, didn't i always say i LIKED you and your posts, we had the one little run in where i wondered how you could moderate when you're sick of Lucy, people answered me that one does not have to love the topic to moderate, so i apologized to you, never got a reply though. Back on topic, Lucy was engaged to Oscar winner Broderick Crawford, and my fanatic fan Dawsongirl who lives for the oldies must remember Highway Patrol, that was his TV show in the fifties, but i doubt that it was filmed at Desilu when he had given Lucy a black eye for not returning the engagement ring. Any of you experts out there might remember that Lucy always played one against the other, so she would have gotten engaged to HIM just to get Desi to move, or Pan to leave his wife, i don't remember WHEN it happened. Look, i never said Lucy was a Saint, she dated a criminal and . . . . ,she dated a lot, my argument has always been the same. Why does that make HER easy and Desi a great womanizer. It's the same for both, i always used the Burt Reynolds Loni Anderson example. Why did that make him a great playboy if he slept with hundreds of women and her a slut if she sleopt with ONE man, it's wrong, our society is really screwed up if that's the way people look at things. Oh and one final thought, does anybody here know Nancy Reagan's rep in Hollywood? What she was known for in Hollywood? When your husband becomes President, does that get erased? THEY ALL have skeletons in their closets, wish i could mention one more here, but i promised i would NOT!

You get mad for Lucy leaving Al Hall for Desi. Would you rather have Lucy miserable being married to Al Hall for years, her her atleast being happy for a time. Hall must have forgiven her because he directed "Forever Darling". What's your problem?

Lucy always gave work to her old lovers, even Pan got the Trailer movie, she figured she would give him one big hit at MGM for all the duds he gave her at RKO!

Lucy was loyal to ALL her exes, even Desi. When he got arrested for shooting at some youngsters on the beach at Del Mar, he defended himself by saying he shot blanks at them, so Lucy sent her chauffeur with blanks in case he'd need them for an aliby.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
I wonder if Desi's mother knew about Lucy's history?

Did Desi's mother know of Desi's history? :lol:

Seriously, if she had any clue about some of Desi's "exploits" I would think she was relieved/amazed that someone could make him consider giving up his "wild ways". Of course, we know those "wild ways" continued, but let's not go into that now....lol

But remember that scene in the "Lucy" tv movie a few months ago when she tells Desi Lucy doesn't have any class? This sort of behavior seems to support that.

Remember half of that movie was some writer's dream, with "factual information" thrown in because the topic of the story was two real people.

I would never take a "Bio movie" as anything even remotely close to fact. Especially that Bio in particular.

Having said that, I don't know if Desi's mother like Lucy. Like Lucy's mother she may have just "tolerated" Lucy and Desi's relationship. I however, wouldn't form my opinion based on that movie of course...

Why does that make HER easy and Desi a great womanizer

Double standards...

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Hey Dawsongirl, didn't i always say i LIKED you and your posts, we had the one little run in where i wondered how you could moderate when you're sick of Lucy, people answered me that one does not have to love the topic to moderate, so i apologized to you, never got a reply though. Back on topic, Lucy was engaged to Oscar winner Broderick Crawford, and my fanatic fan Dawsongirl who lives for the oldies must remember Highway Patrol, that was his TV show in the fifties

I got it, but my email is full of ebay emails and it got bumped to the bottom. Sorry, and I understand.

And yes, I remember Highway Patrol, though I've never seen it.

I don't usually come to this board, because in the past I have been taken aback by the abruptness....I must say this I do agree with you JaneTvFan on THIS ONE!!!!
Just as OnlyOneLucy said...I could not have said it better myself.

I do think she needs to get off her high horse especially when it comes to bashing her mother and prasing her father.....somethin wrong with that picture. If it weren't for her mother Little Lucie would not have a career. Actually we can take it farther...if not for her mother...her FATHER probably would not have much of a creer, while I do admire his creative technical genius, I do not celebrate him as a person for the fact of what he did to Lucy. The cheating and the drinking. He says in his book how much He LOVED Lucy, But when you LOVE someone, you do not go out and try to hurt them. Lucy Adored Desi and I do not beleive there will EVER be another love like theirs. I DO NOT agree with the decision in Jamestown to make Desi an honorary citizen of Jamestown....making Jamestown his hometown as well...and they also want to build a bandshell IN Lucille Ball Memorial Park formerly Celoron Amusement Park in his honor also making him an honorary citizen of Celoron. I would have no problem if the called the exhibits in Universal Lucy and Desi a Tribute....but Jamestown is Lucy's turf, can Lucy have a place to call her own??? She makes her dad out to be Mr. Good guy and even by sticking up for him in the home movie when she said "...and he told me to his dying day that he didn't have those indescrtions the way the media made em out to be" But if Lucy would have done that, and she wouldn't because she had high standards, I am sure Lucie wouldn't let Lucy live that one down.


However this is what really gets my fire going. I have seen Lucy and Desi: A Home Movie It absoluly inferiorates me that Lucy was poised as an unloving mother who only cared about her work....gimme a break HER mother DIDN'T play with her...she has all the home movies of them growing up and Lucy in the pool with them and the carnivals...yet Lucy never had time for them, Lucie had carnivals in her own backyard, lavish vacations, went to good schools, and a foot in the door for a career...yet Lucy didn't love her. Then in reading Kathleen Brady's book we read she was a bad mother, but she was also a terrible grandmother...and these people were around at what point when she was with her grandkids??? Lucy bought an apartment in NY just so she could spend time with them...because Lucie was working in the broadway lights. Later on Lucie moved out to CA...Lucy was pretty much retired...Lucie could have brought her kids to see their Nana anytime she wanted. If you watch any talk show in the 80's Lucy always brags about her kids and her grandkids and how much she loved them and blessed to have them. If you ever get a chance to go to Universal Studios in LA there is a little exhibit in Tribute to Lucy and there is a recreation of Lucy's backgammon nook, with her personal bulliten board and on that is Lucy's daily list of things to do....TOPPING the list is "CALL GRANDBABIES" and then Call Lucie Call Little Desi." Lucie needs to re examine this.
This is just MY opinion...feel free to agree or disagree with me on this. Again Jane I read your post and that was well put. Thank You

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
That's disgusting! More than a full year later and no headstone?! That is absolutely shameful.

I have just returned from Jamestown LAST NIGHT and there is still no headstone there. :confused:

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
I do think she needs to get off her high horse especially when it comes to bashing her mother and prasing her father.....somethin wrong with that picture.

They were her parents. SHe loved her father and she is entitled to praise him if she so desires.

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
Actually we can take it farther...if not for her mother...her FATHER probably would not have much of a creer, while I do admire his creative technical genius, I do not celebrate him as a person for the fact of what he did to Lucy.

Jen, I'll take it a step further as well. As much as I admire Lucy I don't think she would have had much of a career outside of the B movies either. Yes Lucy was successful on My Favourite Husband but along with Desi came Lucy's insistance that she be on the show with him. THat resulted in the chemestry that MADE I Love Lucy and established Lucy as a legend. Lucy herself said she was never sucessful until she became "ARnaz" and with Desi at the helm (as we saw with I Love Lucy, LDCH, and the first bit of THe Lucy Show) he ensured QUALITY production on the shows. Once Desi left during the first season of The Lucy SHow, some of the quality disappeared. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of the later series, but there was a detectible loss in production quality once Desi left. He also built Desilu which eventually cemented Lucy's distinction as the first female head of a studio. Essentially, Lucy needed Desi for a career boost, and Desi need Lucy for that as well.

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
I DO NOT agree with the decision in Jamestown to make Desi an honorary citizen of Jamestown....making Jamestown his hometown as well...and they also want to build a bandshell IN Lucille Ball Memorial Park formerly Celoron Amusement Park in his honor also making him an honorary citizen of Celoron.


Well in a park dedicated to the memory of Lucille Ball, who better to dedicate a bandshell within the park too. Would you have rather it be dedicated to Xavier Cugat or the local player of the spoons? Desi WAS the musical element to the very series that created a legend. I can't think of a more appropriate addition to the park. I honestly believe that Lucy would have been thrilled at this being dedicated to Desi.

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
She makes her dad out to be Mr. Good guy and even by sticking up for him in the home movie when she said "...and he told me to his dying day that he didn't have those indescrtions the way the media made em out to be" But if Lucy would have done that, and she wouldn't because she had high standards, I am sure Lucie wouldn't let Lucy live that one down.


SHe was just putting forth a fact of what Desi said/believed. It wasn't necessarily sticking up for him. Your last point about Lucy ever saying something like that is irrelevant

you guys are making my stomach turn about this Desi thing..but I'm not gonna say anything about that anymore...You can go read my other post..

Okay, I'm not blaming Lucie at all! First off, she has every right to say stuff about her parents! After all, they're her parents!

Secondly, how can you all go put down Lucie like this for saying what she said?? It's natural instinct for us Lucy lovers to do that, but how would you know what Lucie and Desi Jr went through??
You have no idea do you? I feel sorry for them. It had to be tough, I mean face the truth, Lucy did not spend as much time with them as she should have. And it was also tough to see their parents fighting all the time! Like when they were on vacation, and their parents' two doors were open, and Lucie listened, and she saw her mother lean over her father and say, "I wish you were dead." I don't even know what to say about that. I can't even imagine my mom doing that to my father. I would be hurt for the rest of my life, if my mom did that to a person I love very much, my dad. And plus, they were very little!

One more thing, face the truth, Desi was a better parent more than Lucy was. That's why Lucie seems to love her father more. He spent more time with them.
I think what Lucy cared about most in her kids is discipline. Thats what she implied on the home movies. Lucy said, "I like discipline in kids, I don't want a little brat running around the house, it's bad enough what they do." Desi knew what the kids were going through, and when he got home, he made sure their moments with him were enjoyable. =)

Oh, and one more thing about Desi being made an honorary citizen and such.
What is wrong with ya'll who call yourself ILL fans to say Desi shouldn't have nothing to do with Jamestown. Gawd, if it was just Lucyville, I wouldn't have gone. And ya know what? Lucy wouldn't be in her high place if it wasn't for Desi. He has every right to be there. I mean come on, Lucy has all these other fan clubs, most memoribilia if after her, the least everyone can do is show Desi some honor and recognition, for all those stressful days at Desilu, and for big help in making the best sitcom in the world, I Love Lucy.

Okay, this is the last one i promise, lol..

I can see why Desi took his load off with drinking and stuff. I mean wake up, he did MUCH more work than Lucy did. She even said so herself. He ran three big studios, and co-starred in I Love Lucy every week (monthly after 1957)..I mean, you have no idea how much stress was on him. I wish I could travel back in time, and take ya'll with me, and we'll see what really happened. O.O
I admire Desi..

Is there an echo in here?! Seriously Babalucy, this is what I've been saying all along, so you're not alone here. Just tone it down a little okay? :) You're not going to do your cause much good if you keep winding up the Lucy fans.

It's okay, no more worries, I'm leaving. Why is everybody taking advantage of me because I'm a newbie by picking on me?
I mean, see some of ya'll getting very mad and posting stuff, and I don't hear anything towards them. I mean, it's like I have no right to post here because I'm new and ya'll have been here longer. And ya'll keep on confusing me with just a Desi lover, and a non-Lucy lover. I just want everyone to be treated fairly. I almost threw up reading some of the things I said. And yet I'm not allowed to post the things I do. Have you ever thought how much hurtful it is? *runs away* :(

Yeah, well, too late for that! But i will try and control my temper! Maggie dear, you're right about ONE thing, we weren't there, Lucie was THEIR daughter! Ok, fine. However at 15, you don't know yet that one has to eventually LET GO of that anger, or it eats you up. Lucy took Desi on the show to get him close at hand so he wouldn't cheat on her with everywoman he came into contact with. He was a pioneer yes, but some of that credit for the success of the show goes to the brilliant writers, the other actors, the producer, the other people that really invented the three camera technique on game shows, and like he said himself, 90% of the credit went to LUCY herself, his words, not mine. I would say 99%. BUT, he was a great straight man, his bug eyed reactions made her nonsensical actions appear funnier, Lucy said herself when viewing footage of Lucie editing some Lucy Desi comedy hours, HE WAS BRILLIANT, WASN'T HE? He took the money from the show and bought Desilu, if he hadn't, none of that stress would have bothered either of them, and they would have had 100 million when they died. Lucy would have been a comedic superstar anyway, even with Richard Denning, BUT Desi was the LOVE of her life and it was the combination of all four of them together that made the best situation comedy that ever existed.

um.. we dont hate you!! Some of us just really really truly love Lucy ( i know you are a fan of hers but im just saying). and are here to defend her always. I think you are blowing this way out of porportion thats all. Sure you can post whatever you want..its just that some of us will not agree with you. Thats all :)

*sigh* Thanks Love, Lucy. I seriously truely love Lucy too. One of the biggest fans.. I just love both Lucy and Desi the same.

Oh, and SPLAIN, why do you keep on calling me Maggie? lol

We're going in all directions here. The thing some of you forget is The Lucy Show did better after Desi left, it did even better after Viv left, because people watched the genius of L U C Y ! It was LUCY the people loved dearly. The thing is, even a loyal Lucy fan like myself, has to admit that i then fell in love with the other three actors, then the writers and producers, everybody connected with her, because she was smart enough to surround herself with the best people in the business. What made her later series not as successful was the addition of Morton Golddapper, and the repeating of the same ideas over and over for 23 years total. Now, Lucy, was a great mother, the reason i say that, not having been there, is that for all the years they were growing up, i read all those articles, and i heard them all on talk shows. Desi had the kids for the summer vacation, so he taught them to swim and ride horses, Lucy had them the school year, so she yelled at them to keep their grades up. She told them they couldn't date on school nights, she was older, so her ideas were old school, but she always said they could wrap her around their little finger, because she so desperately wanted kids and was so happy to have them. As i watch those old interviews these days, i am struck by the woman going on and on about how talented they are, and this is the thanks she gets. Now that mom's not around to pull strings to get them shows and movies, including their start in the business, and recent books claim she only kept going with Here's Lucy to get them firmly established in the business, hey, i'm not stupid, i know she also wanted to keep working. You see, that's the key right there, she was old school, a very hard worker who didn't ask of anyone else anything she would'nt do herself. The kids however were spoiled Hollywood brats, don't get me wrong, i have loved those two kids all their lives, i mean they were Hollywood kids, with rich connected parents who gave their kids everything. But Lucy always had to hand out the discipline so they would turn out ok, the father handed out the good times, during summer vacations.

what?? The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy are not more popular than I Love Lucy. :confused:
And just because Lucy had them during the school year doesn't mean she couldn't spend quality time with them. And I was talking before the divorce, not after.

I love Lucy, Desi, Vivian, Fred, Lucie and Desi Jr..always. I don't care how bad, spoiled, cheating, boozing, cold they are..forgive and forget. That was 50 years ago.

The other side now! I love Desi, he seemed like such a charming and genuine caring man, Lucy on the other hand was rude and blunt and sometimes appeared mean, well, look at Davis and Hepburn and you will find the same traits, you don't LAST in Hollywood if you're a pushover. They were all hard workers who used to struggle to eat. Desi came from wealth and was rich till the age of 16, then the roof fell in, the revolution and losing everything caused him mental anguish the way his daughter today suffers also, from the fact that she did'nt take care of certain issues while they were alive. I wish she had. I hear her say things like, i didn't know how to handle the funeral, well, why did'nt you discuss that with her when she was alive, she adds that she suffers from fans ALWAYS asking about her parents, would you rather be Adele and Sam Kacinsky's daughter, where would you be today? An office worker in Maryland? You are the daughter of two people who defined the fifties. They also had tough lives and made millions happy, they left you millions and a legacy you unfortunately have to live with forever, poor thing. Why don't you look at what you have instead of whining about what you don't? The second husband seems to be ok, the three beautiful kids are healthy and in college and soon will embark on careers of their own. They too are stuck with the stigma of being Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz' grandchildren. Lucie, you have health, and talent and money and fame, one thing i wish you would get now is peace of mind, know that Lucy going on and on about how she loved her kids on talk shows proves how much she loved you, Bette Davis did'nt talk about anything but her career, she never mentionned her kids, most performers don't. Look at the films and pictures, remember the invention that your mom and dad gave the entertainment industry that relates to you, the four day workweek, so they could spend their long weekends with you. Anybody who can say both of them did not love their kids or did'nt spend time with them is just ignorant of what really happened. Whether it was carnavals in the back yard or trips to exotic locales, or Disneyland or Marineland, they all happened, and i remember every article that talked about it all. Lucy saying she told the kids when she got home, hugging the kids, don't stiffen up baby, momma needs you tonight, all the way to Lucy saying if i leave them 40 cents in my will, they will get 10 cents a year for four years, you see she knew very well who she was dealing with, their father spoiled them to show his love, she did too, she started their careers for them and looked proudly every time they accomplished something, she's looking down now however and tears are forming as she thinks, THIS IS THE THANKS I GET?

I agree! I love watching the home movies of Lucy and Desi playing with their kids. :)

Oh and as far as Desi getting a tribute in Jamestown, why the heck not? Lucy would be the first to say it should happen. She complained when they inducted her into the TV Hall of Fame and pushed for his induction also, and even when she got the Kennedy Center honor, she said it should have been for them as a couple the way it was for Jessica Tandy and Hume Cronyn that year.

*nods*

Nods affirmitavely or negatively? LOL! Listen, you have to remember that what started this thread was Lucie complaining publicly about her mother's parenting skills, she is outspoken and blunt and brutally honest like her mom was, so she should have expected this backlash. Secondly, i might not have been in their houses with them, but i had to endure Lucy talking about them all the time in interviews and articles, she worshipped both those kids ans spent plenty of time with them considering what other little jobs she had at the time, like taking care of her entire family, friends, hangers on, emplyees at home and at the studio, thousand of them. Both Lucy and Desi treated their families like they were the most important thing in the world, bonuses and stocks and company picnics for employees, both of them more than made up for their faults by being generous with charities and everybody around them. They were both caring and thoughtful talented people, and they raised two talented kids, when you mention Maggie that line about Lucy saying to Desi " i wish you were dead" in anger and in response to repeated acts of cheating, the same damage was done by Desi yelling at Desi jr, you little M**********, can't you do anything. Yet Desi jr seems to be able to let it go and keeps quiet about it, maybe he sees things differently. I also react very strongly to the line Jane used about Lucy letting her kids start out on Here's Lucy, i remember those terrible reviews when they started out. Someone like her who lived to work had to worry about them ruining her show, no, she was more concerned with giving them a step up, so they'd have a future. And while she lived those last ten horrible years of her life, she pinched pennies so she could provide for her kids, their future, her grandchildren, always taking care of everybody, that's why those statements Lucie made hurt us fans. At least those if us who were living at the same time as they were, and remember many things Lucie seems to have forgotten. I think Kathy Lee Gifford would have yelled at Lucy back then, all right, enough about those kids already!

*nods* meaning I was agreeing with you. lol

I KNEW that,was trying to lighten the mood with a trifle bit of levity! LOL!

Wow, Splain you sure are good at expressing yourself. Are you a writer by any chance?

Nope, but iffen i ever do, it'll be a book about Lucy that's fer shur! Hey, i've always wanted to ask you what your name meant, Lord Ee, you sound Black, in the fifties! LOL! you know, Lawdee!

Originally posted by babalucy
One more thing, face the truth, Desi was a better parent more than Lucy was.

Were you there? How can YOU say that? Lucille cared about their well-being, their independence and their self-worth. She tought them to be self-sufficient, the value of a dollar and to remember that you must work if you want things in life.

Desi on the other hand is firing guns on the beach, drinking and philandering while they are young. To me, that doesn't seem like he is teaching them right from wrong.

Originally posted by babalucy
Okay, this is the last one i promise, lol..

I can see why Desi took his load off with drinking and stuff. I mean wake up, he did MUCH more work than Lucy did. She even said so herself. He ran three big studios, and co-starred in I Love Lucy every week (monthly after 1957)..I mean, you have no idea how much stress was on him. I wish I could travel back in time, and take ya'll with me, and we'll see what really happened. O.O
I admire Desi..

Nooooobooodddddyyyyy made him buy those studios now did they? He got too big for his britches and couldn't handle it.

I'd be the first one in line to travel back in time with you. :wave:

:rolleyes: No, I was not there, I wish I was, lol, but I wasn't. I said Desi was a good parent sometimes, I didn't say he was an all-out perfect dad all the time because he certainly wasn't. And usually when I speak about Lucy-Desi matters, it's B.D. (before divorce) not A.D. (after divorce) I don't believe in A.D. LOL :lol:

None of us WAS THERE, but sometimes we know the material so well, you'd think we had been! That's why her comments hurt so much. I think she should protest by refusing the checks!

Hey Babalucy, who's getting at you for being a newbie?! I'll sort them out for you. :) Us Desi fans have got to stick together - especially against all these twisted people who think Lucy was funniest. :lol:

Lucy owned the studios after Desi retired and starred in her own WEEKLY television series and she didn't have a drinking problem.

So?

I'm sorry, maybe I'm missing your point there. The world is full of people who work, and who don't have drinking problems. Desi and Lucy were different people, who had different approaches to life. That's part of the reason they struck such sparks off each other, and part of the reason why they found it so hard to stay together. It doesn't make Lucy a better person.

*agrees* and LOL for your comment before! :lol:

Babalucy claimed Desi's drinking was because of his owning a studio and starring in the show, but Lucy did the same thing and din't have a drinking problem, so it's no excuse.

Gosh, I go away for two days and I come back and it takes me forever just to read all that I missed. Sheesh!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
He was a pioneer yes, but some of that credit for the success of the show goes to the brilliant writers, the other actors, the producer, the other people that really invented the three camera technique on game shows, and like he said himself, 90% of the credit went to LUCY herself, his words, not mine. I would say 99%.

Oh c'mon, Claude, even a huge huge HUGE Lucy fan like you has to give Desi more credit than just 1%! LOL. I think Fred Ball reflected it best when he said: "Desi protected Lucy and knew how to promote her. He was a large part of her talent -- I'd say it was a forty-sixty situation. She knew it. You can't explain it -- love is a funny thing."


Originally posted by SPLAIN
They were both caring and thoughtful talented people, and they raised two talented kids, when you mention Maggie that line about Lucy saying to Desi " i wish you were dead" in anger and in response to repeated acts of cheating, the same damage was done by Desi yelling at Desi jr, you little M**********, can't you do anything. Yet Desi jr seems to be able to let it go and keeps quiet about it, maybe he sees things differently.

I really don't believe that Desi's comment was as damaging as Lucy's. Desi's comment was probably made out of alcohol. That's what a lot of alcoholics do -- put down some of the people around them. Small frustrations become huge ones. I know because both of my parents where children of alcoholics. In the long run, Desi, Jr. may have come to realize this. After all, he did become one himself.

You may say that if alcohol is Desi's excuse, then anger is Lucy's. She was very angry when she said it, and had every reason to be. And she probably didn't know that her kids were watching. But still, I don't blame Lucie one bit for remembering that and being scarred by it. She was just a kid who knew that her parents' marriage was in trouble and didn't know why, didn't know what to expect, didn't know if it was her fault, etc. I'm sure that she loved them very much, and to think that one parent wanted the other to die was most certainly a very scary thought for a 9-year-old.


Originally posted by SPLAIN
I think Kathy Lee Gifford would have yelled at Lucy back then, all right, enough about those kids already!

Just because she talked about them a lot doesn't necessarily mean that she spent a lot of time with them. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Lucy loved her kids, but I can't help thinking about one of the documentaries about Lucy and Desi (maybe it's "A Home Movie) where someone who knew her said that Lucy talked a lot about family and that she envisioned the white picket fence kind of life, but she really didn't live it. In all of her magazine interviews of the time, she would talk about "my children" and "my family," yet some of the people around her didn't believe that her children and husband were her main focus.

When Lucy was going through her split with Desi, I think it was Cleo who asked her something like, "What do you want more than anything else in the world?" Lucy could have answered that she wanted to be a family again with her husband and children, but instead she answered without the slightest hesitation: "My work." That speaks volumes.


Originally posted by ARealLucyFan
Lucy owned the studios after Desi retired and starred in her own WEEKLY television series and she didn't have a drinking problem.

Some people just have more addictive personalities than others. Some people can smoke for years and then quit altogether with no problem; others try for years to quit and can never do it. It just depends on the person. Desi never intended to become an alcoholic. In the beginning, he probably just started drinking to take a load off at night and relax. Then the business became bigger and bigger and his marriage started to fail, so he drank more and more to ease the pain and it got out of control. Desi dealt with the pressure of the business with alcohol; Lucy dealt with the pressure in a different way and became known as the “Wicked Witch of the West” to the rest of Hollywood. She needed to survive in business and became demanding and tactless. You're right, Lucy didn’t have a drinking problem, but, like Desi, she dealt with pressure in the wrong way.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
I always thought the slip of paper said Gary's name, what do you think?

Hmmm...that never even crossed my mind. Wasn't the person on the slip of paper from New York? That would make sense, but then again they weren't supposedly introduced until later. And if it was Gary's name on the paper, then would Desi have been as accepting of Gary if he knew that Lucy had been cheating on him with Gary during their marriage? Granted, Desi did call him "Barry Norton" behind his back, but for the most part he was pretty cool about it. When Lucy and Desi each got remarried, they asked for each other's blessing, which was unnecessary I'm sure, but very nice.

When Desi was dancing with Lucy at their daughter's wedding and Gary interrupted them, Desi joked to him, "That's the second time you cut in on me!" Lucie has said that one of her favorite memories of her parents together occured at that wedding. During the ceremony, she saw her father reach for her mother and take her hand in his. That's sweet (and kind of couragous, considering their spouses were probably standing right next to them!).


Originally posted by SPLAIN
But Lucy always had to hand out the discipline so they would turn out ok, the father handed out the good times, during summer vacations.

But really, if the situation were reversed, do you think that Lucy really would have spent a ton of time taking them horseback riding, teaching them how to fish, having picnics, etc? Sure, she did take them places. But when it came down to it, Lucy was always work-minded and Desi was more "fun-minded." It had always been that way.

Especially during the "Here's Lucy" days, weekends with their father was an escape from their mother that they desperately needed. Lucy treated them on the set like any other employee, and even a little harder because she expected a lot out of them due to the fact that they were her children. She payed them scale and gave them no special treatment (which I can understand; she didn't want their heads to get too big, she wanted to be fair to the rest of her employees). I've heard the kids say that they had this employer-employee relationship with Lucy at work and then would come home and assume the parent-child relationship. The lines would blur, and fights between them that would occur at work would begin again when they got home. This caused a lot of conflict. Going to spend the weekend with their father was a blessing until both of them finally moved out (or in Desi, Jr.'s case, was kicked out).

Lucy may have been a little jealous that Desi spent weekends and holidays with the kids and showered them with fun times, but Desi probably thought Lucy was lucky since she got to see them more during the year. And I'm sure that that first year was really hard on him. She took the kids to New York, and he spent the year after his divorce - which was probably the hardest - mostly without the kids that he loved (and the woman that he loved, even if he probably couldn't admit it to himself at the time). So it goes both ways.

If only that idiot Gary Morton knew what he had. I mean, I know I wasn't living with them when they were married, but, how do you marry someone else so quickly after you wife has died? I mean, it's like he was waiting until she died so he could take the money and be with some other little broad. Form what I've read, he was always playing golf instead of tending to his wife. Men would have killed to be in his position. He also kindled her career slowly by producing all the later shows. Desi was a mastermind. Without him, no Lucy, no Ethel, no Fred. It would have been another "Leave it to Beaver". That's not a bad show, but it dosen't live up, or ever will live up to the multitude of "I Love Lucy". His Cubanness brought so much variety to the show, from Lucy making fun of his English, to his charming performances. WIthout him, no Lucy. He should've been inducted into the Hall Of Fame a long time ago. Great man.

Originally posted by Mkaleek
If only that idiot Gary Morton knew what he had. I mean, I know I wasn't living with them when they were married, but, how do you marry someone else so quickly after you wife has died? I mean, it's like he was waiting until she died so he could take the money and be with some other little broad. Form what I've read, he was always playing golf instead of tending to his wife. Men would have killed to be in his position. He also kindled her career slowly by producing all the later shows. Desi was a mastermind. Without him, no Lucy, no Ethel, no Fred. It would have been another "Leave it to Beaver". That's not a bad show, but it dosen't live up, or ever will live up to the multitude of "I Love Lucy". His Cubanness brought so much variety to the show, from Lucy making fun of his English, to his charming performances. WIthout him, no Lucy. He should've been inducted into the Hall Of Fame a long time ago. Great man.

:lol: Gary was a loser. He was a half-wit as a comic (I mean really, how famous was he before he became Mr. Ball?), he ruined Lucy's career with all those dumb decisions he made (insert Life with Lucy here), and yeah, Lucy was a golf widow. Maybe she liked it that way, because as she's said, at least he wasn't cheating on her, but really, IMO, Gary married her when she was at her lowest emotionally, and took advantage of her career. He had no clue what the hell went into producing a TV show...people have said that. But Lucy needed someone to be her Desi, and Gary was there. Woo. But hey! He became rich! So what? He's still Mr. Lucille Ball.

Oh God, this again! Ok, let's give it a try! Ricardos forever, of course i don't think that Lucy deserved 99% of the credit for the success of the show, i am joking the way Mickey jokes when he says Desi was funnier than Lucy, we are both trying to get a rise out of the other, that's all. Now, last night i was making a tape for a good fan, i included the Barbara Walters interview, full version, in it Barb asked Lucy what she considered her greatest accomplishments, Lucy mentionned two, that she knew her craft, and when to get off, and also that she got to spend time with her kids. Like i said before many times, you kids are in your twenties or younger, i', 53 and lived through the periods you describe or that we all read about in those books. Lucy wanted kids so badly, then to her dying day she wished she had had more of them, that's well documented. Don't quote Carole Cook to me, she cried in front of Lucie in that documentary, but she had to have a lot of resentment for Gary cutting her out of Lucy's life after the divorce and maybe even for Lucy not seeking her out. In the Walters interview, Gary answers that Lucy was overprotective of her kids, yes because she worshipped those kids, which is why this subject pains me. Lucy had her faults, yes, but not loving her kids was not one of them. Her son having an affair with Patty Duke at 17 had her in the media portrayed as the wicked witch of the west. Yet, guess what, he later defended his mother, and to this day i don't recall him ever saying anything bad about her except that she loved to work. Were they living in the same house? He and his sister i mean. He got hooked on alcohol and drugs, did his mother, ever concious of publicity and her image, drop him from her life, no, she went to rehab with the entire family, not caring about what people would say, but just to help her son. And yes, poor little Lucie is a child of divorced parents, how traumatic, i'm sure she's the only child ever to hear her parents fight and say horrible things to each other!

I agree with Ricardos4ever! Very well said! :D

I can't believe i did this huge post on the other side of that coin and it's gone, ok, let's try again, hope i remember half of it! I admire Lucie for taking her kids on her tours with her, she had three and she helped raise two from Larry's previous marriage. Another thing i love about both kids is that they stay chummy with their exes, very civilized. Their parents did that also. Did any of you see Lucy on the three Joan Rivers interviews of the Tonight show? Lucy is asked about being a good mother, which she says she might have been, and she goes on and on about her daughter and her many talents, to be continued

Ok, so Lucy says, i might have been a good mother, but i did'nt do all the things that Lucie does. She has a house, a garden that took over the world, and she's canning everything, she's mother earth! So Joan says, but you were mother earth also, to which Lucy replies, but i had help, she does'nt. I had to convince her to get help. You see, Lucy's idea was I'm doing a tv show, running a studio, doing charity work, helping others, supporting friends and family, running a house, or rather several houses, so i can have my mother move in and take care of the kids, along with the staff. Lucie had sporadic work on the occasional show, so it was a little easier. Now Desi jr had a much publicized affair with Patty Duke when he was 17, which portrayed Lucy as the wicked witch of the west. It turned out that the kid was not HIS after all, and Patty was suffering from some mental illness at the time, but Lucy's fans heard that she did not approve of Patty. Funny, but Desi jr defended his mother's actions at the time and to this day has nothing bad to say about her, did he live in the same house as his sister? I only hope to God that it wasn't because Lucy preferred her son, who was a constant reminder of her ex husband over her daughter who went from a seemingly unhappy child to an introverted adult, shy as a teen, it took years for her to find her light and get out from her mom's shadow.

In the Walters interview, Gary admits Lucy was overprotective of her kids, she had them late in life, she was 39 and 42 when they were born and all of us here know that Lucy was very old fashionned in her later years, broadminded as a youngster, but extremely consious of her image later on in life, which Desi never was able to do. When Desi jr got hooked on alcohol and drugs, Lucy did not worry about her image when she went to rehab and sat through those meetings to find out what was at the root of his problems, when the other families showed up with I Love Lucy buttons on, she smiled, but did'nt acknowledge it, she was there for something more important, her kid's welfare. Like i said before, she checked their grades, got them tutors, dragged them along to her work also, doing quiz and talk shows with them, did Bob Hope do that with HIS kids. She got them used to show business, and got to hang out with them in the process, it later helped them along in their respective careers. Like i said, Lucy even claimed to Walters that she only kept Here's Lucy going so that they could be firmly entrenched in the business, i would debate that one, that she did not want to give up her career and kept the show going for herself also, but she even admitted that she found her own shows repetitive and old fashionned, now that's out honest Lucy. Say what you will about the lady, but she could be brutally honest about her life and herself. She always gave credit to Desi for everything he did and built up both her husbands in the media. She might have had less time with her kids than the average housewife, but she still managed to have plenty of quality time with them over the years. I remember Lucy once admonishing Lucie for having a friend just because they were in neighboring basinets at Cedars, or others you befriended Lucie just to meet her mother or see the house, now THAT has to be traumatic for a child, but i still think it's unfair for a daughter to attack her deceased mother who can't defend herself while living off the money that her mother earned and is still earinign for her almost fifteen years after leaving those children behind.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Nope, but iffen i ever do, it'll be a book about Lucy that's fer shur! Hey, i've always wanted to ask you what your name meant, Lord Ee, you sound Black, in the fifties! LOL! you know, Lawdee!
It's a nickname my neice gave me because she couldn't pronounce my name.:)

Sorry about repeating everything back there, lost posts infuriate me. But, one last thing, the three camera technique having been invented by Desi was bull, it already existed for game shows, however, he refined it and made it much better, filming a comedy show in front of an audience in a film studio was his and Jess Oppenheimer's idea. However, one you CAN give Lucy and Desi credit for is the four day shooting schedule for the filming of a tv comedy series. Why did they do that, to have these LONG weekends with their kids, Lucy mentionned THAT in the interviews also! I can show you dozens of articles where she does not plug herself or her shows but goes on and on about hte kids, how they do in school, how she took them here, or there, how they touch in that house, swimming together, vacationing together, she even told Joan about taking them to Europe a couple of times, in spite of her hectic schedule. She was strict, she had curfews for them, they could'nt date on school nights, were grounded for not obeying the rules, were'nt allowed at certain star's homes, she was on them for keeping their grades up and was proud as a peacock when they excelled in the business. When Desi jr did Marco in China, while she did Mame, she said she knew it would bomb, but she had to be a good parent and let them both learn from their mistakes. She protected them, cleaned their places lioke her character on the show, knew their friends, gave advice and helped them every chance she had, considering the whirlwind she lived in, i think it's very admirable that she did all that, like i said, Lucie has to move on, sure it would have been great for her if mom had spent all her time with her and quit the show, but those people she said that benefited from seing her mom's work over decades, did she forget about all of them. Well, one of them is here, trying to defend Lucy from another needless backlash, that's all i'm saying.

Originally posted by ARealLucyFan
Babalucy claimed Desi's drinking was because of his owning a studio and starring in the show, but Lucy did the same thing and din't have a drinking problem, so it's no excuse.

T H A N K Y O U ! ! ! ! !

NO one is perfect, especially when they have so much to worry about. I mean, Desi did have his prostitutes, but Lucy was controlling, she wanted to control him, and the more she tried the more he cheated. It's a good thing that their work overshadows all of those faults they both had. Only Human.

Originally posted by ARealLucyFan
Babalucy claimed Desi's drinking was because of his owning a studio and starring in the show, but Lucy did the same thing and din't have a drinking problem, so it's no excuse.

As Ricky would say it,

It's plenty 'scuse! :p

Dearest Baba, i hope one day when you're older and married, you are not in Lucy's position of having to have your husband's affairs constantly flaunted in your face, having him openly flirt with everything in a skirt while you're doing your job, earning the money needed to pay for that BOAT, and the house in the hills and all those prostitutes that could could transmit deseases to you. And even though you love your husband to the point where you at least TRY to overlook it all, and you try and protect your kids from it all, and you try and not let the snickering of those around you bother you in any way, yeah, those are grounds for controlling behavior. You worked your whole life for a reputation and also to earn some security, so if your hubby gambles it away and his drinking stops him from doing his job to the point where you could lose the studio he stupidly acquired, yeah, that could mean that a little controlling behavior is required.

lol, im not Baba...

and I was just kidding.. :rolleyes:

let the past go people! Lucy did when she was older!
It's not my problem, Lucy's probelm, ya'll's problem, or their kid's problem. It was Desi's problem.
And I'm not going to marry a man like Desi, because he has to be a Christian. Because I am. :)

None of us here can let the past go, how else can you explain our discussing the lives of people who are long gone and a show that was made a half century ago? :lol:

*coughs* well, let that past go..:crazy:

Ladies first!

Originally posted by crazyredhead
And I'm not going to marry a man like Desi, because he has to be a Christian. Because I am. :)

Technically, Desi was a Christian. Lucy even began the process of becoming a Catholic because he was one. They even remarried in the Catholic Church because his mother thought that it would get God on their side so they could finally concieve a child. Friends of his have also said that one of the reasons that Desi got back together with Lucy before their divorce became final in the '40s was because hecouldn't stomach the idea of divorcing for fear of excommunication from the Church.

Granted, he just didn't always adhere to the Christian beliefs (i.e. committing adultry), but then again nobody's perfect. We're all sinners, in one way or another. From reading about him over the years, he always struck me as being a more spiritual person than Lucy, believe it or not. He'd tell his kids, "don't forget to ask the man upstairs for help if you need it" or, like Claude said, he'd show them a sunset and say "God has really outdone himself tonight." Whereas, Lucy didn't even believe in an afterlife, or so I've read. It seemed that she belived in God -- she would make references to Him every now and then. However, Lucy has said that she didn't believe that religion ever helped Desi much in his life.

yeah, I liked it when he said that on the home movies. =) I believe he was more spiritual than Lucy..I think he wanted to do right..but, ya know.

What is the actual purpose for this thread? Lucy wouldn't appreciate it.

The purpose is to defend Lucy from what her daughter said about her seing as Lucy can't defend herself anymore. I can't wait to see the thread go also, but i have to defend her.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
The purpose is to defend Lucy from what her daughter said about her seing as Lucy can't defend herself anymore. I can't wait to see the thread go also, but i have to defend her.

ditto! I'll defend her until i die!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Dearest Baba, i hope one day when you're older and married, you are not in Lucy's position of having to have your husband's affairs constantly flaunted in your face, having him openly flirt with everything in a skirt while you're doing your job, earning the money needed to pay for that BOAT, and the house in the hills and all those prostitutes that could could transmit deseases to you. And even though you love your husband to the point where you at least TRY to overlook it all, and you try and protect your kids from it all, and you try and not let the snickering of those around you bother you in any way
I don't know how she could stand it, really. It's bad enough dealing with it when you're NOT famous. But to have everyone know? Kind of like poor Hillary Clinton. How can she stand it?

At least Hillary got a Senate seat out of it, and she was married to the most powerful man in the world, now one day maybe sooner than we think, she could become the USA's first woman President, Lucy who always prided herself on the fact that she taught Desi a lot about women, would be especially happy with that! Maybe she could restore the economy to the levels it had when her philandering husband was in power.

Originally posted by Love, Lucy
ditto! I'll defend her until i die!

You go girl! I feel the same way!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Lucy who always prided herself on the fact that she taught Desi a lot about women, would be especially happy with that! Maybe she could restore the economy to the levels it had when her philandering husband was in power.

What kinds of things did she teach Desi about women? I'm assuming you're talking about Desi Sr., right?

Originally posted by SPLAIN
The purpose is to defend Lucy from what her daughter said about her seing as Lucy can't defend herself anymore. I can't wait to see the thread go also, but i have to defend her. I always had respect for Lucie, but I've sort of lost some respect for her.


HI MAGGIE!!!!!!! It's ME!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
At least Hillary got a Senate seat out of it, and she was married to the most powerful man in the world, now one day maybe sooner than we think, she could become the USA's first woman President, Lucy who always prided herself on the fact that she taught Desi a lot about women, would be especially happy with that! Maybe she could restore the economy to the levels it had when her philandering husband was in power.

If Hillary becomes the first woman president of theUSA.. I am leaving! LOL.. And thanks mags for the support haha! :D.

Ricky darlin'! :wave: Heh, and no problem Ash! :D

I haven't really lost respect for Lucie, I just agree with what Claude says, that it's not really fair to say those things about her mother, when she's not here to defend herself. I hope she doesn't become like Christina Crawford and write a whole book...But, I've always thought Lucie seemed like an extremely nice person otherwise, she's beautiful, and very talented. There are just some times when I believe she should keep her mouth shut.

Originally posted by MagsLovesLucy
But, I've always thought Lucie seemed like an extremely nice person otherwise, she's beautiful, and very talented. There are just some times when I believe she should keep her mouth shut.

I agree, there are certain things that Lucie probably should have thought twice about before saying. But you have to look at the big picture. You have to take certain things into consideration, such as the fact that Lucie sold her farm in New York state shortly after her father died and moved her family to Beverly Hills because realized that she may not have too much time with her mother left. A cross-country move -- that's a big step to make.

I know what some of you are thinking: it was because of the inheritance, she wanted to look good in her Lucy's eyes, etc. Maybe that is true, but a lot of you guys seem to be assuming the worst. Most likely, she realized that time was precious and that she'd be doing a favor to herself, her mother and her children, Lucy's grandchildren, to be closer to her mom. Lucie's kids didn't get much time with their grandfather before he died. Lucie left her family behind in NY for a period while she went and took care of her dying father. Whatever issues that Lucie had with both of her parents, it seemed like she was making an effort.

Sure, there are still hurts that plague Lucie and she might be letting them out the wrong way. Maybe she gets sick of hearing everyone praise her mother all of the time, while painting her father as a womanizer and cheat. And we know, as discussed earlier in this thread, that Lucy had her own share of indiscretions before she married Desi. Maybe she's just trying to put things "back in perspective," as she says in "A Home Movie." It wasn't all good, it wasn't all bad.

People ask her questions, she answers honestly. That honesty is not always what Lucy fans want to hear, but it is her truth, her reality. She was there, she lived it. It was the foundation of her entire being, setting the tone for the rest of her life. Yet, it is just another perpective, just like Vivian Vance had a perspective, Desi Arnaz had a perspective, Carole Cook, Cleo, Jerry the agent, Lucy herself -- everybody. Everybody had something different to bring to the table. And most of the perspectives aren't all good or all bad. They just are.

I doubt that Lucie called up the writer of the new book and said, "Hey, I've got something that you can put in your book: I didn't feel loved! Now I've got my revenge!" People like this author seek her out and bombard her with questions about her parents, poking and prodding into her private life as a child, and parts of that life were very painful. There's got to be a point where Lucie probably thought, "Why should I lie and pretend like life with my mom was a bowl of cherries? There were some aspects of the relationship with my mom that wasn't pleasant and these people are asking me questions about it, so why should I make it seem better than it was?" I'd rather her be honest about it than lie through her teeth.

I really don't think that every comment about her mother that flies out of her mouth is bad. The bad is what gets published more often, the bad is what gets inquired about more often. Questions like, "How was your homelife? How did your mother show her love for you? Was she strict?" come at her and she answers. She tried to answer some of those questions in "A Home Movie," but there'll always be another book coming out or another tv movie that exploits her parents in the worst way. And I guess there will always be people who will criticize her for either not wanting to discuss her parents enough, or for running her mouth too much when discussing her parents, or for not paying enough attention to her parent's legacy, or paying too much attention to it. It never ends for her. I wouldn't want to be in that position.

I love Lucy, and never really considered myself a Lucie fan. I'm just trying to look at this issue from the other side of things.

I agree, there are certain things that Lucie probably should have thought twice about before saying. But you have to look at the big picture. You have to take certain things into consideration, such as the fact that Lucie sold her farm in New York state shortly after her father died and moved her family to Beverly Hills because realized that she may not have too much time with her mother left. A cross-country move -- that's a big step to make.

I know what some of you are thinking: it was because of the inheritance, she wanted to look good in her Lucy's eyes, etc. Maybe that is true, but a lot of you guys seem to be assuming the worst. Most likely, she realized that time was precious and that she'd be doing a favor to herself, her mother and her children, Lucy's grandchildren, to be closer to her mom. Lucie's kids didn't get much time with their grandfather before he died. Lucie left her family behind in NY for a period while she went and took care of her dying father. Whatever issues that Lucie had with both of her parents, it seemed like she was making an effort.

Sure, there are still hurts that plague Lucie and she might be letting them out the wrong way. Maybe she gets sick of hearing everyone praise her mother all of the time, while painting her father as a womanizer and cheat. And we know, as discussed earlier in this thread, that Lucy had her own share of indiscretions before she married Desi. Maybe she's just trying to put things "back in perspective," as she says in "A Home Movie." It wasn't all good, it wasn't all bad.

People ask her questions, she answers honestly. That honesty is not always what Lucy fans want to hear, but it is her truth, her reality. She was there, she lived it. It was the foundation of her entire being, setting the tone for the rest of her life. Yet, it is just another perpective, just like Vivian Vance had a perspective, Desi Arnaz had a perspective, Carole Cook, Cleo, Jerry the agent, Lucy herself -- everybody. Everybody had something different to bring to the table. And most of the perspectives aren't all good or all bad. They just are.

I doubt that Lucie called up the writer of the new book and said, "Hey, I've got something that you can put in your book: I didn't feel loved! Now I've got my revenge!" People like this author seek her out and bombard her with questions about her parents, poking and prodding into her private life as a child, and parts of that life were very painful. There's got to be a point where Lucie probably thought, "Why should I lie and pretend like life with my mom was a bowl of cherries? There were some aspects of the relationship with my mom that wasn't pleasant and these people are asking me questions about it, so why should I make it seem better than it was?" I'd rather her be honest about it than lie through her teeth.

I really don't think that every comment about her mother that flies out of her mouth is bad. The bad is what gets published more often, the bad is what gets inquired about more often. Questions like, "How was your homelife? How did your mother show her love for you? Was she strict?" come at her and she answers. She tried to answer some of those questions in "A Home Movie," but there'll always be another book coming out or another tv movie that exploits her parents in the worst way. And I guess there will always be people who will criticize her for either not wanting to discuss her parents enough, or for running her mouth too much when discussing her parents, or for not paying enough attention to her parent's legacy, or paying too much attention to it. It never ends for her. I wouldn't want to be in that position.

I love Lucy, and never really considered myself a Lucie fan. I'm just trying to look at this issue from the other side of things.
Very well said! :D

Yes Ricardos forever you really state your case very well, you should have been a lawyer. I don't know what to add to that. I admire Lucie for being with her dad at the end, and him dying in her arms, that i truly respect her for. Moving to Beverly Hills, well that happens to everybody when one parent dies, they get much closer to the OTHER parent. She looked in those pictures that we always see as being an unhappy child, JMO, then she looks like she's forcing a smile in later pictures, she was really shy and must look back on that time as not the most pleasant experience in the world. Then, to my shock, she became SUPERLUCIE, attractive, talented, charming and like her mother kept repeating, mother earth, entertainer as well as bringing up five kids and apparently being a very good hostess and decorator, she produced the best documentary i've ever seen. As i've said before, the ONLY thing i object to is her attacking her mother who is defenseless at this point. As you pointed out none of us were there at the time, but some of us remember some of those events, and after chalking up some of it to spoiled Hollywood rich kids, you still have to admire how she turned out, however if she does not think she will get a backlash after those comments. Telling Liz Smith that she got nearly nothing after her mom died, well like i said, the attorney said her only goal was to provide for her kids, not to double her money. She herself said that if she left 40 cents, they would get 10 cents a year for four years, so she wanted or felt the need to control things even after she was gone. Yes, it has to be very difficult to constantly hear people praise your mom, dad or even brother when you are attempting to revive your own career, i understand that, but it sure helps to have that nest egg to finance it and that memorabilia provides a nice future for you and your kids. I also agree that Lucie has taken on many of her mother's character traits, like telling it like it is, so if she had made these statements while Lucy was still alive, the debate might be a lot more interesting. I am sorry that Lucie is uncomfortable with the fact that i too am a Lucy fan and only a Lucie fan because of her connection to Lucy, i still admire many things about her, but i if i did meet her, i would complement her on her career, but would then add, i LOVED your mother, fact of life, accept it and move on already.

Lucie said in a recent interview in a British magazine (Telegraph On Saturday I think) that she loved her mother, sure, but she was closer to her father because they have much more similar personalities, looked at life the same way, and were just generally the kind of people fated to be closer. That's just the way it goes sometime.

I know Lucie thinks she is more similar in personality to her father, but from what I've heard from some people who know her, she also inherited some of her mother's less flattering personality traits, some of the very ones she is down on her mother about.

Many people have more or less backed up what Lucie said about her mom-people who worked with Lucy on her show,family memeber and friends of the family.I think Lucie knew her mom loved her and she loved her but Desi was a much more loving an affectionate person to begin with,of course she remembers her dad more fondly.Others have said Lucy was good at saying I love you but wasn't good a playing with her kids while Desi was.Lucie has also said after her mother's death she found that her mom had kept all the little notes Lucie wrote to her growing up-showing that Lucy had a sentimental streak but wasn't good at showing it.Lucy herself often revealed in interviews that she wasn't the warm and funny person so many imagined she was-she was a very good actress who did love her kids but wasn't so good at showing it.I love her shows but I don't have to see her as perfect in every aspect of her life and clearly she wasn't.

Well, it must be difficult to live in the shadow of your parents. Generally, kids are suppose to go on to make better lives for themselves than their parents. Both Lucie & Desi Jr. tried show business, but couldn't come anywhere near the success of their parents.

I have seen Lucie in interviews and I don't particularly like her personality. She seems rather spoiled to me and I know someone who worked with her a few years ago in Florida in a play Lucie was appearing in and this person said Lucie was "quick-tempered" and "aloof" herself.

Desi Jr., while somewhat attractive in his younger years, was no real talent either. He seems like an affable guy, but not particularly a gifted showman.

I really don't know why Lucie would have issues with her mother because I can tell you this, Miss Lucie and Mr. Desi Jr. are basking in a very impressive fortune left behind by their parents. They have nothing to complain about.