has there ever been an update on the matt flores case? he was killed in the parking lot of applied materials inc. in santa clara, CA.

njf

That's the only case that comes to mind with that description, killed in a business parking lot. If so, I have never seen an update.

I didn't understand why UM was only allowed to show a black-and-white re-enactment of the parking lot incident, when the actual tape was supposedly available. There was a utility vehicle that followed him in, probably a very sad case of mistaken identity. The victim seemed like an All-America type and not involved in anything sinister.

that is the case.

i think that the original tape may have had some info that police didn't want to release, so they could find out which tips were hoaxes, perhaps.

njf

I too believe there is still no update on this case. I think I saw this case presented on another show awhile back and again, no new leads. Werent invesigators able to name the possible colors of the car? (Not that thats a big lead or snything). What a shame, its heart wrenching watching the video of him and his new baby girl. I dont give up hope b/c criminals always talk and one day someone will spill the beans.

This case is one of the most haunting UM ever covered. I just watched it again in some detail on crystaldawn's DVDs volume 8, and I agree with njf520 that there must have been some pertinent reason for witholding the tape from the show.

This case is sad and frustrating for many reasons, but, with as little as there is to go on, it's unfortunate that larger portions of the tape were not reconstructed. According to the segment, the suspicsious Ford Explorer enters the parking lot for the first time about 20 minutes before the shooting and pulls into a space, facing a camera. Then, a few seconds later, a white Ford Probe pulls into the lot, and the Ford Explorer backs up and follows it.

The next thing we are told is that 4 minutes before the shooting, the Ford Explorer leaves the parking lot, only to return 3 minutes before the shooting.

That's 15 minutes of unaccounted for time. Did the Ford Explorer park elsewhere in the parking lot at that time? Did it leave and come back as it did a few minutes before the shooting? Unfortunately, except for this board, there appears to be next to nothing on this case on the internet. So I guess we'll never know.

One of the things that bothers me, besides the "missing" 15 minutes, is the fact that the Ford Explorer leaves the parking lot 4 minutes before the shooting. Why would the killer leave, if he's waiting for Flores or anyone to show? Doesn't he risk missing his mark? Granted, he returns only a minute later, but I for the life of me can't figure out what purpose leaving serves --- unless it's to contact someone to confirm exactly who his mark is and what car he is driving. Seeing him evidently follow the wrong person once suggests he might have needed to be "reminded" of who he was looking for. The only problem with this theory is that he is gone for only about a minute. The only reason to leave the parking lot is if he wants to use a pay phone to call whoever hired him. Was there a payphone near enough by that he could get out, make a quick call, and return to the lot less than a minute later? If not, why did he leave?

He returns to the lot 3 minutes before the murder, and, a minute later, two cars --- one belonging to the woman who would find Flores and the other belonging to Flores enter the lot. Two minutes after that, Flores is dead, and twenty seconds after that, the Ford Explorer leaves the parking lot for the final time.

These movements suggest to me two things: 1) he did ultimately get the right guy and 2) he wasn't very experienced or good at this. As was mentioned in another thread, this guy is just plain lucky he was not seen by an eyewitness or by the cameras. Nevertheless, he seems to have made some effort to find the right person.

Of course, I could be wrong. Flores was in a rental car after all, and, at that time, white Corsicas were big with rental companies (I remember when I went to DisneyWorld with my family as a kid, we rented a car from some big lot, and they seemed to be ALL white Corsicas).

Why the killer left the parking lot altogether for about a minute will always bother me, I guess.

From an article I purchased from the San Jose Mercury News of May 13, 1994, as found on newsbank:

"A close review of the security surveillance videotapes that scan the company's parking lots has led investigators to search for a Ford Explorer that is observed on the tape entering and leaving the lot several times before and after Flores was slain about 8:15 a.m. March 24 as he arrived for work."

The Explorer was seen on the tape entering and exiting the parking lot several times, before and after the shooting, according to this article. This differs from the UM segment, which claims the Explorer left the parking lot for the last time after the shooting. It's hard to imagine why the killer would return after shooting Flores. Another article I looked at from newsbank (but did not purchase) mentions that Flores had fully exited his car and was reaching back to get his coat when he was shot. In my mind, this means the shooter must have gotten a pretty good look at him --- how could he mistake him for someone else?

Interesting.

EDIT: I bought a second article, written ten years after the incident, hoping it might reveal some leads that were pursued but exhausted, etc., but really nothing of interest in the article, except that it was raining the day he was shot. UM segment has it as a bright, sunny morning.

I really wish there would be somewhat of a break in this case. It's always haunted me as well.

I agree with the earlier posts-- those 15 minutes of unaccounted time, in my opinion, are incredibly important in cracking what happened. In addition, I feel that the reason the Ford Explorer left the parking lot 4 minutes before the crime occurred is BECAUSE he was looking for the right person. However, I still feel that he got the wrong one.

To me, the case screams of a botched job. If not, it's the perfect crime because everyone has assumed that Flores was the unintended victim of a hit.

This case always struck me and left me completely baffled as to why this poor man was murdered. It's now been 14 years since this happened and I can't find any new info on it.

The "wrong man" theory is the only thing anybody has come up with to make sense of it all, but I can't imagine why a hitman would decide to murder somebody in broad daylight - in a busy parking lot too - with the risk of having somebody get his license plate # or even a physical description. Seems like if I'm going to murder somebody, I'd make sure there would be no potential witnesses. Just seems like an unlikely time/place to carry out a murder.

^ Not really especially if the guy was hired to kill Flores. I mean look at the case of Roger Wheeler Senior. Whitey Buldger former head of Boston's Irish Mafia put a hit on Wheeler and a hitman shot him in broad daylight at his country club in a manner nearly identical to how Flores was killed.

There were wittnesses to Roger Wheeler's murder too but the killer wore a disguise and the most anyone could scrape out was a partial license plate and it took almost twenty years and the collaspe of Bulger's empire to identify who murdered Wheeler. In the case of Flores, I don't think anyone even saw him get murdered they only noticed he was dead after the fact.

They were able to track the suspicious activity of a Ford Explorer that has been pointed out which could've been driven by Flores' killer.

I think unless some evidence can be shown that Flores was the victim of a mistake hit, it could've been something from Flores past possibly with his work in the military. I dunno maybe its just from watching too much UM but you can't discount the fact that Flores could've been the intended victim.

This one reminds me of the Seattle area realtor who was killed. No clear motive, no clear suspect, not much to go on.

^ Not really especially if the guy was hired to kill Flores. I mean look at the case of Roger Wheeler Senior. Whitey Buldger former head of Boston's Irish Mafia put a hit on Wheeler and a hitman shot him in broad daylight at his country club in a manner nearly identical to how Flores was killed.

There were wittnesses to Roger Wheeler's murder too but the killer wore a disguise and the most anyone could scrape out was a partial license plate and it took almost twenty years and the collaspe of Bulger's empire to identify who murdered Wheeler. In the case of Flores, I don't think anyone even saw him get murdered they only noticed he was dead after the fact.

They were able to track the suspicious activity of a Ford Explorer that has been pointed out which could've been driven by Flores' killer.

I think unless some evidence can be shown that Flores was the victim of a mistake hit, it could've been something from Flores past possibly with his work in the military. I dunno maybe its just from watching too much UM but you can't discount the fact that Flores could've been the intended victim.

True. But this doesn't appear (to me) to be an organized mob hit mainly due to the Ford Explorer's movements in the moments leading up to the murder. It seemed as though the Ford Explorer wasn't sure if he even had the right car (as I recall wasn't he following another car in the parking lot?).

The killer was lucky that nobody saw the actual crime that would be able to identify him or his car. Also, I wonder if the building had any security officers. He took a big risk by killing somebody in a parking lot of a large company in the morning when the likeihood of eyewitnesses would be greatest. I wonder if he considered that there was survelliance footage of the parking lot.

I know I'm arguing a moot point, because regardless the killer got away with murder and an innocent man is gone. But it makes it all the perplexing:(

Was Flores married? Could his wife or an ex set up a hit on him?

I haven't seen this in a long time. But can someone tell me if the license plate was at all visible on the camera footage? If so, can't the FBI enhance it and get a clearer pcture of the numbers or letters on the plate?

Yes, Matt Flores was married with a daughter at the time of his death. As Dante had said, it is possible that this could have been connected from something in his past. I'm leaning towards a case of mistaken identity. The segment mentioned that the police had looked into his past, and found everyone to consider him a good person who was well liked.

As for the security camera footage, judging by the recreation from UM, the angle at which the suspected car was captured at was on the side, and no clear view from the back or front. I'm also sure they were not able to tell what the color of the car was, but were able to rule out a few.

Assuming this was a case of mistaken identity, I wonder if the police ever tried to find the killer's intended victim. I haven't given this much thought before now, but it might provide answers.

It's very possible that the intended victim worked at Applied Materials and would be in the parking lot the same time Matt Flores was killed. Why else would the killer and intended victim be in this parking lot at that time if the victim did not actually work there? I wonder if the police investigated employees of Applied Materials by determining who might be mistaken with Flores by physical appearance and/or be driving a car similar to his at that time.

I just watched this segment, and I was wrong. According to the security tape, the suspected Ford Explorer that enters the parking lot does in fact park directly into the camera at one point. I'm sure the police have tried to enhance the tape for any possible chance of getting a look at the driver. I wonder if maybe the tape is of poor quality or maybe the windows are tinted and too dark? Maybe something did in fact follow Matt from his past in the military as some people have suggested...

To answer some of the questions...........There is no pay phone close enough to make a call and get back in 1 minute....the license plate is not visible on the tape....I know this because I was the second person to arrive after the lady in the car next to him. I arrived less then 30 seconds after he was killed and I heard no gunshot. I know this because the massive flow of blood from his head had just started as I approached his driver's side door. The strange thing was he looked almost identical to me. Needless to say, I didn't sleep much for the next several weeks.

The strange thing was he looked almost identical to me. Needless to say, I didn't sleep much for the next several weeks.

What kind of car were you driving?

What was the "shop talk" around his case? Was someone passed over for a promotion that was given to him? Did he flirt with a married coworker? Did he supervise any staff? You must know stuff that UM never mentioned. They're usually scanty with their details.

To answer some of the questions........... Wow, thanks for posting, Tanger. I'm so sorry you had to witness that. Did you seriously consider that someone might have mistaken Matt Flores for you or do you think it was just a weird coincidence? Have you heard any rumors about possible motives? Anything you could share would be wonderful. Such a sad case, and solving it seems almost hopeless at this point.

I was driving a 1979 GMC Jimmy which is mostly maroon, but I was preping it for paint so the front panels where black or grey (don't remember). You can clearly see it in pics because I parked in front of Matthew's car when I saw the women panicing.
Shop talk was initially road rage but quickly turned to a hit when it was clear how perfectly it was done. I was right there and looked around for any evidence of suspicious activity and there was none.
He had only been there for 2 weeks. He was in an army special unit doing secret stuff so the suspicion turned to that.

Two weeks?!? That sounds very unlikely to be related to his job. So possibly mistaken identity for someone else at that company. Or maybe something from his past really did follow him. So bizarre.

I thought for a while if there was anyone who could have it in for me, but I couldn't come up with any names.

I just watched this case again. I wonder how his wife and baby are doing, she'd be a teenager now.

could his killer have been a woman?


Matt was a very attractive guy. I don't feel he would cheat on his wife but maybe a woman from his past was unhappy about his new marriage and baby and decided that if she couldn't have him, no one else would either. If not an ex, maybe someone had a thing for him but it never went anywhere on Matts end.


Just a theory

could his killer have been a woman?
Matt was a very attractive guy. I don't feel he would cheat on his wife but maybe a woman from his past was unhappy about his new marriage and baby and decided that if she couldn't have him, no one else would either. If not an ex, maybe someone had a thing for him but it never went anywhere on Matts end. Just a theory

Could've been. Anything is possible with this case because nobody has a clue as to WHY this happened. Good theory DJ Foxx.

Very sad case. :(

Although the idea of mistaken hit sounds plausible, who's to say he didn't have any enemies? Flores was in the military at one point, so he could have made some enemies there. The problem with the case is that there are no clear cut clues.

I feel bad for his daughter and wife. It's amazing to think that his daughter would be in high school by now.

I find it very hard to believe that 20 or so people were in the parking lot that day and seen NOTHING. Really? How could no one see someone running away from the general direction when the shot was heard? I find this case very perplexing. Even if the person walked casually away, people were all around..how could no one see a thing? :confused: I know I'm really repeating myself here, but this bugs me!

Interesting ideas! I agree, Kamy, that it is a wonder that more people didn't see anything (maybe there were people who witnessed the guy, but couldn't get a good enough look for a police sketch.

I had not thought of the idea of road rage or of a jealous lover/partner of lover. The road rage idea doesn't seem plausible because the van was in and out of the parking lot before ultimately parking to shoot Matt. The jealousy issue could have occurred. I agree that Matt was very attractive, and perhaps someone was hired to kill him to keep him from dating their girlfriend/wife. And, of course, the mistaken identity theory is truly the best, as another white car was followed. Clearly, this was a hit, as the person would have known Matt's car if they had known him well enough to shoot him (I'm guessing the killer was told that the victim would be driving a white car, and the killer initially thought the first white car was the right one, but later realized it wasn't).

I wonder (I'm sure they probably did) if, since he was newly hired, they checked into people who might have been turned down for the position that he got? There have been cases of disgruntled employees harming or killing someone for getting a promotion/position that they wanted.

This is a horrible case, particularly since it seemed Matt was a really nice guy, down to earth, and just starting a new chapter in his life. I don't think the military angle has any credibility, but at this point, I guess any angle is worth exploring.

I wonder (I'm sure they probably did) if, since he was newly hired, they checked into people who might have been turned down for the position that he got? There have been cases of disgruntled employees harming or killing someone for getting a promotion/position that they wanted.

Interesting theory.

The only problem I have with it is that usually you'd want to kill the person that turned yoo down instead?

But let's take it from this angle, what if this guy thought that by killing Matt he might be considered for the position after he's dead?
It's an extreme way to get the job you wanted, but crazier things have been done.

And, of course, the mistaken identity theory is truly the best, as another white car was followed

1. Wouldn't this guy have known the license plate and make was different?

2. I have to assume that if it was a mistake hit, this guy at some point killed the correct target. Shouldn;t there be another murder of a guy with the same car and/or physical description.

Interesting theory.

1. Wouldn't this guy have known the license plate and make was different?

2. I have to assume that if it was a mistake hit, this guy at some point killed the correct target. Shouldn;t there be another murder of a guy with the same car and/or physical description.

Actually, that's a great point. I tend do agree with you that if it was a mistaken hit, at the very least the hit man was totally inept. Obviously it appears that the killer was initially drawn to the first white car, but then realized it was the wrong one (so he/she must have had more details). Or, perhaps it was just a wild coincidence that the killer pulled into the lot behind a white car (it's not like white cars are really that uncommon).

Who knows, honestly.

This case just aired again and wow, I feel terrible for his family. I am young and married with a young child and I couldnt imagine something like this happening to our family.

My question about the mistake contract hit is that if it was a mistake and the hitman was supposed to hit someone else, then that person obviously worked at the same place Matt did. Was anyone else murdered or die under odd circumstances that either looked like Matt or drove a similar car as Matt? This may have been a contract hit but maybe Matt was the target. Sad sad case though...

This case just aired again and wow, I feel terrible for his family. I am young and married with a young child and I couldnt imagine something like this happening to our family.

My question about the mistake contract hit is that if it was a mistake and the hitman was supposed to hit someone else, then that person obviously worked at the same place Matt did. Was anyone else murdered or die under odd circumstances that either looked like Matt or drove a similar car as Matt? This may have been a contract hit but maybe Matt was the target. Sad sad case though...

I would like to think that the police investigated to see if there was anyone else who worked at this company who drove a white Ford probe. Anyone who did could be questioned to see if they had any enemies.

If not, they could question anyone else who might have been driving a white Chevy corsica. The car Matt was driving was rented to him by his work. Maybe the company had also rented a white corsica to another employee at the time.

It's a long shot, though.

This is one case that bothers me too, first off there seems to be NO motive behind killing Matt and second there seems to be no one with a reason to kill the man or no threats or anything, i am guessing one of two things, One, Matt was killed by a man who just wanted someone to kill and killed Matt or two, it was a mistaken identitiy case, i lean to the mistake one, first, this one car was following this other car, then came back and followed Matt's car, maybe he was looking for another white car like Matt's that wasn't four doors, but two??

case, i lean to the mistake one, first, this one car was following this other car, then came back and followed Matt's car, maybe he was looking for another white car like Matt's that wasn't four doors, but two??

If that's true..where is the "correct hit"? There should be a murder we can connect with similarities to this one.


One, Matt was killed by a man who just wanted someone to kill and killed Matt or


The "default random psychopath theory" which can technically be used to explain any murder ever done in the history of homicide. It's possible, but statistics say there just aren't that many psycopaths out there.

The top two crimes are still "crimes of passion" and "crimes of profit/cause". Odds are this crime fits into the above two categories rather than a random psychopath.

IMHO, I believe theres something in Matt Flores past that might have led to this. There;s a person out there that is unkown to his family and co-workers.

Perhaps he was having an affair and this murder was retribution against the affair being dissolved?

The top two crimes are still "crimes of passion" and "crimes of profit/cause". Odds are this crime fits into the above two categories rather than a random psychopath.
i agree which is why i think it was a mistake hit and until they solve this case which is unlikely, then we will never know what the reason is.

IMHO, I believe theres something in Matt Flores past that might have led to this. There;s a person out there that is unkown to his family and co-workers.
could be, but the police in their investitgation said there seems to be no problems with Matt and it sounded as if everyone liked him, personally i just wish this case got solved so we knew if he was the target and why?

Hmm yes, I am not saying Matt could not, for sure, have been the target. But I am still looking for a motive for his slaying? I mean, the person that did this, either was very lucky or they were very experienced in doing this to slip in and out without anyone seeing them. I mean, plus the fact that just by coincidence that this was done right out of view of the camera. Now that could be a coincidence or it could be someone that really did their homework?

I still have thought that while there was a legitimate hit target that it was probably not Matt Flores that they were after. I think what gave this away to me ,although I can see how it could be interpreted that it WAS Matt they were after, because in the camera view, a white car was seen entering the parking lot and the Ford Explorer backed out as if to follow it and then realizing it was not the person they were after left the parking lot and then when Matt's car came they followed him and shot him. So, I mean I guess either scenario is possible.

The only reason I have difficulty believing it was Matt they were after is because they simply did not know why anyone would order a hit on this guy? I mean he had no major financial problems, had no major personal problems, did not have any known enemies and no one was known that would have a reason for wanting this guy dead.

If that's true..where is the "correct hit"? There should be a murder we can connect with similarities to this one.

If this was a botched hit, it's possible that the killer(s) were scared off of rectifying their mistake. Another employee being murdered would be more easily recall and be linked to the prior unsolved homicide.

the police in their investigation said there seems to be no problems with Matt and it sounded as if everyone liked him


It could be someone who he never mentioned, or an individual who had a perceived personal/professional grievance against Flores that was unknown even to him. It's common for relatives and friends to say 'everyone liked him', when it's not necessarily the case. UM doesn't mention how far back into his background the police delved.

It could be someone who he never mentioned, or an individual who had a perceived personal/professional grievance against Flores that was unknown even to him. It's common for relatives and friends to say 'everyone liked him', when it's not necessarily the case. UM doesn't mention how far back into his background the police delved.


I agree. As I said earlier, if it was a mistake hit, then was the person who was supposed to be killed, ever killed? Did that person die under odd circumstances? If no one else at the company Matt worked at was murdered or died under odd circumstances within a few years, then I would think that Matt was their target.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
If that's true..where is the "correct hit"? There should be a murder we can connect with similarities to this one.

If this was a botched hit, it's possible that the killer(s) were scared off of rectifying their mistake. Another employee being murdered would be more easily recall and be linked to the prior unsolved homicide.

1. But the hitman has a contract to fufill. His employer is not going to be happy that the person that he wants killed is still alive. If the hitman refuses to kill again, would that stop the client from hiring someone else to kill the Matt? Any decision on stopping the hit would be done by the client. I don;t see why the client would be scared of continuing with the crime considering there is no phsyical evidence againts him , just the physical evidence of the hitman.

2. The client may not be able to afford to cancel or wait on the hit. If Matt is going to testify againts him or something, the client needs to kill him now before they go to jai. If a lot of money is at stake in the hit, the money would most likely outweigh the risks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mwcarolina
the police in their investigation said there seems to be no problems with Matt and it sounded as if everyone liked him

It could be someone who he never mentioned, or an individual who had a perceived personal/professional grievance against Flores that was unknown even to him. It's common for relatives and friends to say 'everyone liked him', when it's not necessarily the case. UM doesn't mention how far back into his background the police delved.

If Matt was involved in something illegal, his friends and family would most likely not now about it. Same for an affair. Both situations would also be things that Matt would try to hide from both his friends and family..plus the authorities.

Some good points, Mastermind.

But the hitman has a contract to fufill. His employer is not going to be happy that the person that he wants killed is still alive. If the hitman refuses to kill again, would that stop the client from hiring someone else to kill the Matt? Any decision on stopping the hit would be done by the client. I don;t see why the client would be scared of continuing with the crime considering there is no phsyical evidence againts him , just the physical evidence of the hitman.

The question being, was the hitman an indifferent hired gun, or an individual who could be connected to someone who parked in the lot? Previously I've leaned towards the former, but anything could be conjectured here.

Someone personally connected to the crime would more likely be fearful of attempting another attack on their actual target. News broadcasts about the vehicle would frighten an assassin (personally involved with the victim or not) off a second attempt, even at another location. Who is to say the next attempt won't have actual witnesses who see the perpetrator and the license of what ever vehicle he utilizes? The killer was lucky the first time.

If the killer was an indifferent third party and decided to walk away from fulfilling his obligations, there's not many options for the contractor to complain or get his/her money back. He potentially has as much to lose as the actual killer if the hitman is ever connected to the murder.

The above of course relates to it in the context of being a botched hit, and I'm still on the fence with this one.

Well it depends on how much the person wanted the other person dead. As in how much the person that hired the hit man wanted the target dead. If the person that they wanted dead was not Matt Flores but Matt Flores was killed by mistake, it is not completely outside of the scope of possibility that the person seeking the hit called the whole thing off or decided to change the M.O. of the hit. I mean, like when Don Deveroux was the target of a hit and they killed that guy, Doug Johnson by mistake instead of Deveroux. Don Deveroux is still very much alive. It is obvious that Deveroux was the target. Of course we also see a hit situation where the hitman killed until he got it right like in the Mary Morris case.

I mean, like when Don Deveroux was the target of a hit and they killed that guy, Doug Johnson by mistake instead of Deveroux. Don Deveroux is still very much alive. It is obvious that Deveroux was the target. Of course we also see a hit situation where the hitman killed until he got it right like in the Mary Morris case.

True, but being a reporter brought a lot of attention on Don Deveroux. I also think that case had more light on it that Matt Flores.

Keep in mind that Don Deveroux knew it was he who was the target, which means that Don contacted police and may have taken other precautions. If they wanted to hit him, the police would be on the hit and perhaps could catch the hitman or link them to the clients.

I 'm not sure if the original target here would know that the hit on Matt Flores was for him. There;s less of a chance that there would be extra precautions taken by the real target.

If the killer was an indifferent third party and decided to walk away from fulfilling his obligations, there's not many options for the contractor to complain or get his/her money back. He potentially has as much to lose as the actual killer if the hitman is ever connected to the murder.

1. He does have a reputation to lose. Word could get around that he messed up a hit, hurting his business. Future clients could be more reluctant to hire him.

2. If Matt Flores was killed by mistake, technically there is no evidence that the client hired the hitman to kill Matt Flores. All the evidence would point to the client hiring the hitman to kill real target. Based on all this, the client could potentially turn in the hitman to the police for the murder of Matt Flores without ever being connected to the hit.

3. There is nothing that prevents the client from having the new hitman kill the first hitman. From a criminal perspective, he would be justified since the original hitman broke contract. Nobody in the underworld would frown upon the act. They would consider it "street justice".

News broadcasts about the vehicle would frighten an assassin (personally involved with the victim or not) off a second attempt, even at another location. Who is to say the next attempt won't have actual witnesses who see the perpetrator and the license of what ever vehicle he utilizes? The killer was lucky the first time.


A lot of the difficulty in the next hit would depend on whether the real target knows that Matt Flores death was a botched hit on him.

The suggestion of road rage revenge doesn't make sense, because there wasn't any confrontation reported, at least in the parking lot. A murderer who kills out of rage wants his victim to see who is getting even with him.

He was executed---no other word will do---as he turned his back and was reaching back into the car: a moment that a practiced killer would wait for. I don't recall if there was a sound of a shot reported, or not. Silencer, maybe? I'm not a fan of deep, dark conspiracies, but I think his service in the military, esp. as an engineer, might be related to his death.

By the way, the story linked above says that his widow had not remarried, at least up to 2008. It also mentioned that LE was looking again at his military contacts, etc. among other things, for answers.

This case always bothered me. He survives wartime service, returns to his young family, starts on the next path in life, only to die in a parking lot in CA: that it might have been a mistaken hit only made it worse. I hope his family gets some answers.

I find it very hard to believe that 20 or so people were in the parking lot that day and seen NOTHING. Really? How could no one see someone running away from the general direction when the shot was heard? I find this case very perplexing. Even if the person walked casually away, people were all around..how could no one see a thing? :confused: I know I'm really repeating myself here, but this bugs me!

If you use a silencer and remain calm after the hit, just pulling out and driving off casually, I could see it. When I am in a parking lot, I generally pay little to no attention to what is going on around me. I don't think there were that many people in the parking lot at the time of the hit, though - there were at least that many cars, but I think the only person who was actually in the lot when the shot was fired was the woman shown in the re-enactment. tanger65 drove up about a half-minute after the hit, I believe he said.

Matt was very attractive, and perhaps someone was hired to kill him to keep him from dating their girlfriend/wife. And, of course, the mistaken identity theory is truly the best, as another white car was followed.

I wonder (I'm sure they probably did) if, since he was newly hired, they checked into people who might have been turned down for the position that he got? There have been cases of disgruntled employees harming or killing someone for getting a promotion/position that they wanted.

I don't think the military angle has any credibility, but at this point, I guess any angle is worth exploring.

That's really the problem - there are so many possibilities as to who might have wanted him killed and why.

I am guessing, however, that the detectives have it narrowed down more than we have here. For one thing, they have seen the actual tape - we have not. What does that say? I think there is a lot of information they have not released - and much that UM did not say. All of these possibilities we are bouncing around here is just more proof that UM did a great job of making things seem as mysterious as possible (which is their m.o., after all!)

i am guessing one of two things, One, Matt was killed by a man who just wanted someone to kill and killed Matt

Another problem with the "default random psychopath theory" that Mastermind commented on is this: if you just want someone to kill, you generally don't do it on a clear and sunny weekday morning at 8:15 in a busy corporate parking lot while loads of people are arriving for work, and follow one potential victim, decide against it, then 15 minutes later follow another white car and decide to kill this one instead, and do so using a silencer. This does not fit the profile of a psychopath who just wants someone to kill.

If this was a botched hit, it's possible that the killer(s) were scared off of rectifying their mistake. Another employee being murdered would be more easily recall and be linked to the prior unsolved homicide.


This is a good point and makes good sense. But then again, why would they care if another homicide were linked to Flores? That didn't stop the guy in the "Two Mary Murders" case. If they were brazen enough to carry out a hit in a busy parking lot during rush hour of a weekday knowing there was a witness 50 feet away, I would think they would not be too easily "scared off".

The above of course relates to it in the context of being a botched hit, and I'm still on the fence with this one.

There are some serious challenges to the idea that this was a botched hit as brought up by other posters, mainly Mastermind. So far, none of them have been really responded to. Until you can dismiss the objections to the botched hit theory, I don't think you can credibly hold that position.

why did the cops not let UM show the real survelience video?

Another problem with the "default random psychopath theory" that Mastermind commented on is this: if you just want someone to kill, you generally don't do it on a clear and sunny weekday morning at 8:15 in a busy corporate parking lot while loads of people are arriving for work, and follow one potential victim, decide against it, then 15 minutes later follow another white car and decide to kill this one instead, and do so using a silencer. This does not fit the profile of a psychopath who just wants someone to kill.
i am just offering a theory, this case is difficult. I for one now think Matt was the target, but my question is why?? who wanted to kill this man???? and why?? Everything seemed fine with Matt, he seemed to be liked. If this was a botched hit (which i am now going against) why havent they (the police) found the intended victim???

why did the cops not let UM show the real survelience video?

I've wondered about this too. I really can't come up with a good reason except that maybe there's something else on the real video that the cops are holding back from the public so if the time comes, they will be able to match up the real perp's info to the facts and weed out any false confessions, etc.

Other than that, maybe the original footage was so grainy and indistinct that the general public wouldn't get a good idea of what was going on, so they dramatized the surveillance scenes in an effort to make the details more obvious.

Just a couple of guesses... I wish we could find out for sure, what the reason was for not showing the original.

I've wondered about this too. I really can't come up with a good reason except that maybe there's something else on the real video that the cops are holding back from the public so if the time comes, they will be able to match up the real perp's info to the facts and weed out any false confessions, etc.

Such was the case with the Dale Kerstetter CCTV footage, too. That reason was my initial guess.

It seems that surveillance videos of real or possible criminal acts themselves are always recreated, while merely related videos (Blair Adams in the hotel lobby, for instance) often are not.

I just watched this episode and I can't make heads or tails of it. What is interesting to me, is that the Explorer was following a white car in the beginning of the video and then leaves the parking lot, and comes back when Matt's car arrives. I've always been interested in who's car that was, because if the alleged "hit man" thought the first white car was his hit that could shed some light on this. I'm sure the police have followed that lead.

you said that the UM got it wrong cause the article paper said that the suspect's vehicle entered before and after many times. i think u understood it wrong, the article probably meant the same as UM, that the vehicle entered many times which was before the shooting, then leaves, then enters again before the shooting, and finaly leaves finally. so it meant that altogether it was many times coming back and forth, but just once finally. obviously after the suspect shot the guy, it took off for good, it would not come back

From an article I purchased from the San Jose Mercury News of May 13, 1994, as found on newsbank:

"A close review of the security surveillance videotapes that scan the company's parking lots has led investigators to search for a Ford Explorer that is observed on the tape entering and leaving the lot several times before and after Flores was slain about 8:15 a.m. March 24 as he arrived for work."

The Explorer was seen on the tape entering and exiting the parking lot several times, before and after the shooting, according to this article. This differs from the UM segment, which claims the Explorer left the parking lot for the last time after the shooting. It's hard to imagine why the killer would return after shooting Flores. Another article I looked at from newsbank (but did not purchase) mentions that Flores had fully exited his car and was reaching back to get his coat when he was shot. In my mind, this means the shooter must have gotten a pretty good look at him --- how could he mistake him for someone else?

Interesting.

EDIT: I bought a second article, written ten years after the incident, hoping it might reveal some leads that were pursued but exhausted, etc., but really nothing of interest in the article, except that it was raining the day he was shot. UM segment has it as a bright, sunny morning.

doesnt it seem like the suspect first follows the white car, which of course is not flores. so the suspect then takes off to the right in our video. so rite away the suspect realizes that the first car he saw while he was parked there, was not flores. then he leaves being frustrated, but comes back very soon cause flores is on his way. then the next white car he sees just happens to be his target - flores. that is what i think, he got his correct target, its just that he thought the first white car was flores.

back then, around 20 yrs ago, did they have bigger security cameras in the parking lot? it just seems to me that perhaps the suspect while parking for just a short time, might have seen the camera up high on one of those light posts in the parking lot, which covered his area of his parked vehicle. and the passing white car has nothing to do with him pulling out. cause it seems like 15 minutes are not accounted for. and a witness said that the crime was done/he was shot in a perfect manner. so maybe the first white car didnt fit in at all. maybe during all that time the suspect needed to move his car right away in fear of getting his face pictured via the camera, so he moved to the other side of the parking lot where it was not on tape.

how ironic! that the murder takes place in a place not covered by a security camera. why couldnt the whole parking lot be covered by security, wasnt there a rule for that. how bout today, has that changed? has security become better in parking lots. yesterday two people got killed at a parking lot at a store, so security still lacks today.

also, i liked the point someone else made that perhaps a woman was the killer. i disagree with this but it made me think some more. do you think someone else was watching the parking lot during the entire time perhaps in cahoots with the driving suspect? maybe they had walkee talkees so the conversation would not be recorded. one guy could be up on a nearby hill watching and telling this parked guy when the vehicle was entering.

Actually, that's a great point. I tend do agree with you that if it was a mistaken hit, at the very least the hit man was totally inept. Obviously it appears that the killer was initially drawn to the first white car, but then realized it was the wrong one (so he/she must have had more details). Or, perhaps it was just a wild coincidence that the killer pulled into the lot behind a white car (it's not like white cars are really that uncommon).

Who knows, honestly.

perhaps it was a mistake and matt was the wrong target. and perhaps the killer or hitman later found out it was the wrong guy, but gave up on trying to find the correct guy in fear of getting caught.

1. maybe it was some guy who was just jealous at his very good looks. perhaps someone working a different shift, but still would run into matt once in a while during the week. like maybe a janitor or cleaning guy who would clean out his desk area and would look at his desk photos and see a hot wife and gets even more jealous. those cleaning people work during the night shifts too. so the investigators would be looking at everyone who works only during matts shift, which is day shift only.

2. or if its road rage, maybe matt accidentally cut some driver off during the first two weeks in his new city/new job area. and when he cut someone off that person remembered his licence plate and color of car and highway exit ramp number.

This case just aired again and wow, I feel terrible for his family. I am young and married with a young child and I couldnt imagine something like this happening to our family.

My question about the mistake contract hit is that if it was a mistake and the hitman was supposed to hit someone else, then that person obviously worked at the same place Matt did. Was anyone else murdered or die under odd circumstances that either looked like Matt or drove a similar car as Matt? This may have been a contract hit but maybe Matt was the target. Sad sad case though...

u make a good point about matt having an affair maybe and his past caught up to him. just because the parents and wife say a husband is very good and nice doesnt mean its 100 percent true.

If that's true..where is the "correct hit"? There should be a murder we can connect with similarities to this one.




The "default random psychopath theory" which can technically be used to explain any murder ever done in the history of homicide. It's possible, but statistics say there just aren't that many psycopaths out there.

The top two crimes are still "crimes of passion" and "crimes of profit/cause". Odds are this crime fits into the above two categories rather than a random psychopath.

IMHO, I believe theres something in Matt Flores past that might have led to this. There;s a person out there that is unkown to his family and co-workers.

Perhaps he was having an affair and this murder was retribution against the affair being dissolved?

just wondering, of all these unsolved murders that was talk about on this blog.....do you think at least a couple of the killers have come onto this site to get a kick out of what people have to say? most are still living, some might have died in car accidents, old age, ect. but the others most likely have internet access at home, work, college, or local library. scary...

I just watched this episode and I can't make heads or tails of it. What is interesting to me, is that the Explorer was following a white car in the beginning of the video and then leaves the parking lot, and comes back when Matt's car arrives. I've always been interested in who's car that was, because if the alleged "hit man" thought the first white car was his hit that could shed some light on this. I'm sure the police have followed that lead.

sometimes really good looking men/husbands are self centered (not saying matt is) and think they can have anyone. same with women, some hot women get mixed up with bad men. and trouble can happen cause of this.

So physical attractiveness is invariably equivalent to "good", "wholesome", and "moral" when it comes to women, but for men it is dependent on the individual's tendencies towards self-centeredness? Or do individuals widely perceived as physically attractive tend towards entitlement and selfish behavior?

I absolutely cannot describe the degree to which both ideas are inherently, grossly flawed, and rooted in pervasive stereotype. It is quite literally overwhelming.

i didnt say that

Last edited by goldenlegbraclet : 01-24-2011 at 07:16 PM.

Well, yeah you did. Anyone who's read the thread since 11:30 AM eastern time has also known that you did, and that you edited your post roughly eight hours later. You are aware that when you edit a post after a considerable amount of time has passed since you created it, it publicly logs your edit, right?

Nice private message about requesting me to "edit or delete" my post, by the way. :rolleyes: As I suggested then, if you decide to make an idea or argument public, you may want to make sure you are prepared to defend it, or to accept a refute.

I think Flores was indeed the intended target, if this were a professional hit. The fact that the other white car similar to Flores' was followed but then the pursuer backed off tells me the suspect had a distinct target on his mind. Obviously a hired hitman would know the license plate number or at the very least a general description of his intended target, so the fact that he didn't back off of Flores and did in fact murder him tells me that he was the target of the hit.

As to why this man was killed, it's really anybodies guess. Based off of a ten minute UM segment it seems like Matt Flores was a good natured, wholesome family man. But there very well could have been a dark side that we don't know about. Perhaps an affair, maybe some involvement into drugs. We really have no way of knowing. If this were a hired hit, Flores made an enemy with someone somewhere along the line. Since he was only at his job for two weeks, I think we can rule the possibility of a disgruntled co-worker out. His military career could hint at some "secret" operation where he was killed to be kept silent, but this also seems unlikely. Usually when the military is involved there are usually signs of evidence for this (that one UM segment where a decorated military officer placed a medal on a civillian's grave comes to mind). This very well could have been a jealous lover who either killed Flores or hired someone to do it.

His military career could hint at some "secret" operation where he was killed to be kept silent, but this also seems unlikely. Usually when the military is involved there are usually signs of evidence for this (that one UM segment where a decorated military officer placed a medal on a civillian's grave comes to mind).

Unlikely is an apt descriptor.

We do not "off" our soldiers if they're involved in sensitive operations. Period. That's simply an immense pile of Hollywood bull****. Nor do we execute American civilians--an even more immense pile. Concerning Flores, he was your average armor or infantry lieutenant, IIRC. He served his obligatory four years and got out, like many of us do. Although he served with distinction in Desert Storm, his military career wasn't at all extensively unique or unusual. He did his time, and he got out. End of story. I've been in the Army for five years, served active and Reserve time, served in both the enlisted and officer ranks, and performed menial tasks to classified work. Here's the "take away": The military is not at all the octopus many feel that it is, even when operations are extremely sensitive. There's nothing mystic there.



This case always seemed to be a very probable case of mistaken identity to me. Flores wasn't the intended target, IMO.

Last edited by goldenlegbraclet : 01-24-2011 at 07:16 PM.

Well, yeah you did. Anyone who's read the thread since 11:30 AM eastern time has also known that you did, and that you edited your post roughly eight hours later. You are aware that when you edit a post after a considerable amount of time has passed since you created it, it publicly logs your edit, right?

Nice private message about requesting me to "edit or delete" my post, by the way. :rolleyes: As I suggested then, if you decide to make an idea or argument public, you may want to make sure you are prepared to defend it, or to accept a refute.

ROASTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this case has me so confused. This is one segment where I think we dont have the whole story.

ROASTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

His private reply to me was a curt "ur weird". I haven't been readily armed with a response to that since I was wearing Scrunchies, tying my oversized tee shirt off to the side, and asking the lunch lady to put potato wedges on my tray.

this case has me so confused. This is one segment where I think we dont have the whole story.

I concur. I think the majority of it may be rooted in this computer company he took a position with.

This case is probably one of my all time favorite UM segments. It's just so perplexing and I really can't decide what happened here. Everything just doesn't make a lot of sense.

A few things I do wish I knew more about:

1. Matt's personal background. I have no reason to believe he was killed for a professional reason relating to his new job or his military career. But I'm extremely curious to know if he made any enemies personally (known or unknown to him). What was his marriage like? Were there any ex's or past relationships that went sour? Friendships that went sour? It seems far fetched but it's worth another look.

2. Could this crime been a simple robbery or attempted carjacking? I know that the surveillence footage shows a possible stalking of a vehicle similar to Matt's, but could the murderer be looking for the right victim or car? He was singled out two white vehicles (the first car then Matt's car). What happened when the murderer approached Matt? Did he attempt to rob or carjack and Matt said or did something that resulted in the killer shooting him point blank. Again this seems far fetched but possible. My workplace parking lot can attract some strange people and we've had our share of police activity here trying to get the area cleaned up. I think about this case a lot when I'm here at work.

whatever

Last edited by goldenlegbraclet : 01-24-2011 at 07:16 PM.

Well, yeah you did. Anyone who's read the thread since 11:30 AM eastern time has also known that you did, and that you edited your post roughly eight hours later. You are aware that when you edit a post after a considerable amount of time has passed since you created it, it publicly logs your edit, right?

Nice private message about requesting me to "edit or delete" my post, by the way. :rolleyes: As I suggested then, if you decide to make an idea or argument public, you may want to make sure you are prepared to defend it, or to accept a refute.

This is what I received today:


Private Message: JUST REPORTED YOU FOR HASSASMENT
01-25-2011, 03:44 PM
goldenlegbraclet
Occasional Poster
Member


Join Date: Jan 23, 2011
Location: river falls, wisconsin
Posts: 12 JUST REPORTED YOU FOR HASSASMENT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i just reported you for verbal harrasment. i thought about the matt flores case all day and wanted to come home and watch the video again and listen to the thread of comments. i dont need to listen to your bullcrap and you inserting my replies on the board. dont email me back, as you alraedy emailed me and i didnt read them, i deleted them. you must be some kind of sicko




Today I learned that harassment means replying--in a handful of sentences or less--to a string of weird, unprompted private messages from a troll, observing said troll become irrationally angry when I mention them in a thread, and then having said troll fill my inbox with this diatribe. Clearly, I am very sick.

I also learned one can listen to threads. That was interesting.

I know that the surveillence footage shows a possible stalking of a vehicle similar to Matt's, but could the murderer be looking for the right victim or car?

This is pretty much why I tend to think it was a mistake hit. Hitmen often don't know many details about their targets, just that they're "looking" for either a man or a woman, in a particular vehicle that will be in a particular place on a certain date and time. Perhaps Matt fit a vague description.

[We do not "off" our soldiers if they're involved in sensitive operations. Period. That's simply an immense pile of Hollywood bull****. Nor do we execute American civilians--an even more immense pile. Concerning Flores, he was your average armor or infantry lieutenant, IIRC. He served his obligatory four years and got out, like many of us do. Although he served with distinction in Desert Storm, his military career wasn't at all extensively unique or unusual. He did his time, and he got out. End of story. I've been in the Army for five years, served active and Reserve time, served in both the enlisted and officer ranks, and performed menial tasks to classified work. Here's the "take away": The military is not at all the octopus many feel that it is, even when operations are extremely sensitive. There's nothing mystic there.

I don't recall ever insinuating this. How many UM segments are there that profile missing military personnel and also hint at military involvement? While it may be farfetched, it's still a thought that comes to peoples minds. Which may have something to do with the Hollywood perception of everything.

As for Flores, I never really thought about a possible botched robbery/carjacking. It seems like a huge leap of faith for someone to attempt to rob someone at 8 in the morning in a busy business parking lot. I believe Mastermind brought up a good point in a previous post about if this were a case of mistaken identity, why wasn't there an attempt to carry out the original hit on the intended target?

I believe Mastermind brought up a good point in a previous post about if this were a case of mistaken identity, why wasn't there an attempt to carry out the original hit on the intended target?

It's mere speculation, but I would suppose if it was the case that it was a mistake hit, the reason there was no other apparent attempt might be because whomever ordered the hit felt uncomfortable with LE attention being focused on Flores' murder and subsequently called the hit off for the time being, or he/she ordered the hitman to execute the plan in a different locale, perhaps using different means.

As for Flores, I never really thought about a possible botched robbery/carjacking. It seems like a huge leap of faith for someone to attempt to rob someone at 8 in the morning in a busy business parking lot. I believe Mastermind brought up a good point in a previous post about if this were a case of mistaken identity, why wasn't there an attempt to carry out the original hit on the intended target?

It's a huge leap of faith to attempt to rob somebody in a busy parking lot at 8 AM but it's also a huge leap to carry off a planned hit on somebody's life in a busy parking lot at 8 AM in the morning. Either way, the killer got very lucky that nobody caught him much less saw him! I just have trouble fathoming how a professional hitman would think it was a good idea to off somebody in a busy parking lot at 8 AM where there are a ton of witnesses around. So it makes me think perhaps the crime was more of a spontaneous, desperate opportunity to rob or carjack someone.

I've wondered the same in regards to why the original hit was never carried out if Matt Flores was mistaken for the target. But then again, if that did happen then I can imagine the hitman and the mastermind behind it all would be a little freaked out that an innocent man was killed while carrying out the plan. Makes sense that they would just pitch the plan and lay low.

This is pretty much why I tend to think it was a mistake hit. Hitmen often don't know many details about their targets, just that they're "looking" for either a man or a woman, in a particular vehicle that will be in a particular place on a certain date and time. Perhaps Matt fit a vague description.

If LE was able to determine the sex of the driver of the original white car that was followed this theory would certainly hold a lot more weight IMO. If the driver were female, then that could explain why the hitman backed off after following the car initially. However, don't you think if someone is willing to pay money (a substantial amount at that) to kill someone they're going to hire someone competent enough to do the job? And don't you think the hitman would have gone on more than just a vague appearance description and the type of car the target was driving?

2. Could this crime been a simple robbery or attempted carjacking?
Well, when i watched the UM Segment about this, i thought i heard that he basically was shot in the back, so if this was simple robbery, why just shoot him in the back??? Plus was anything taken???
It's mere speculation, but I would suppose if it was the case that it was a mistake hit, the reason there was no other apparent attempt might be because whomever ordered the hit felt uncomfortable with LE attention being focused on Flores' murder and subsequently called the hit off for the time being, or he/she ordered the hitman to execute the plan in a different locale, perhaps using different means.
yeah, true, that could be the reason.

It's hard to know what to think about this case.

If we take LE at its word, i.e., that they did a through investigation of Matt's background and found nothing wicked, then there would be no reason to kill him. We have absolutely no evidence of drugs, other women, spycraft, etc.

The random psycho theory is, as always, possible, but how many random psychos are really going around killing people in broad daylight, etc. Anything's possible, i suppose, but it's just not very satisfying.

That leaves the mistaken hit theory; the behavior of the van certainly suggests something like this, but as Mastermind pointed out, if this was a botched hit, who was the target (another employee of applied materials, it would seem?), and why no evidence that the right target was ever hit?

Unless UM left out critical facts (always possible), this really does seem one of the more mysterious mysteries. Unlike most cases, all of the theories leave major unanswered questions.

However, don't you think if someone is willing to pay money (a substantial amount at that) to kill someone they're going to hire someone competent enough to do the job? And don't you think the hitman would have gone on more than just a vague appearance description and the type of car the target was driving?

One would tend to think so, but it isn't necessarily always the case, especially if the hiring individual is not a member of organized crime, or a "small-timer". Often, they take what they can get for the price they can afford to pay. Hitmen are not always incredibly competent.

Sometimes those who hire hits will purposely give their hires vague descriptions of the target. It is left up to the "professional" to do their homework and zero in on the correct individual. Many times this is done to decrease the volume (or obscure the content) of message traffic between the employer and employee, so that there may be less evidence of a contract should LE begin looking in their direction.

One would tend to think so, but it isn't necessarily always the case, especially if the hiring individual is not a member of organized crime, or a "small-timer". Often, they take what they can get for the price they can afford to pay. Hitmen are not always incredibly competent.

Sometimes those who hire hits will purposely give their hires vague descriptions of the target. It is left up to the "professional" to do their homework and zero in on the correct individual. Many times this is done to decrease the volume (or obscure the content) of message traffic between the employer and employee, so that there may be less evidence of a contract should LE begin looking in their direction.

This person who was hired would almost certainly not be paid by whomever hired this hit, because he killed the wrong target. And that in turn would cause some dissention amongst the hitman and the person who hired him, and if this guy was a small time hood the odds of him blowing the whistle and talking are higher if he wasn't paid.

This person who was hired would almost certainly not be paid by whomever hired this hit, because he killed the wrong target. And that in turn would cause some dissention amongst the hitman and the person who hired him, and if this guy was a small time hood the odds of him blowing the whistle and talking are higher if he wasn't paid.

I tend to think so too.

I tend to think so too.

That's kind of why I think Flores was in fact the intended target.

That's kind of why I think Flores was in fact the intended target.

I don't make that connection. This could very well just be me not wrapping my mind around it (this happens often), but if you could, explain for the slower one here.

This person who was hired would almost certainly not be paid by whomever hired this hit, because he killed the wrong target. And that in turn would cause some dissention amongst the hitman and the person who hired him, and if this guy was a small time hood the odds of him blowing the whistle and talking are higher if he wasn't paid.

I think a hitman would be more likely just to kill the person who didn't pay him. What incentive would they have to talk? They'd be going to jail too.

The question I always come back to: If this was a planned hit, why murder him in a crowded parking lot where he ran a very good chance of being seen? If Matt (or whomever) was supposed to be killed, it could have been done with less risk involved.

A plausible scenario, in my mind, is that some petty criminal was roaming the parking lot for an easy target to carjack or rob. Matt, for whatever reason, looked like a good target and when the would-be-robber/carjacker approached, Matt could have put up a struggle or started to draw attention to the incident. Killer panicks and shoots him point blank.

I also want to know what position Matt was found in. I can't recall off the top of my head: was he slumped over the steering wheel in a seated position or had he totally exited the vehicle?

I don't make that connection. This could very well just be me not wrapping my mind around it (this happens often), but if you could, explain for the slower one here.

If the person who hired the hitman knew that the hitman killed the wrong man, he would either demand he go back and kill the right target or simply not pay him. And if in fact this hitman was a local unprofessional good ol' boy he would feel burned by not getting paid, not to mention now having to murder two people. There would then be some sort of dissention between the two, and the hitman would definitely want retribution for not getting paid either by killing the person who hired him or (less likely) exposing everything. And if this were carried out by a small time hood who murdered an innocent man for nothing, I'm sure he would have blabbed about it to somebody by now (be it out of sheer arrogance or out of anger for not getting paid). Basically the fact that nothing new has come to light over the years tells me the hitman was a professional, and the fact that there were no other people who worked at that company murdered in a similar fashion (or anyone in the area Flores lived in) tells me Flores was the intended target. Hopefully that explains my theory a little better.

I think a hitman would be more likely just to kill the person who didn't pay him. What incentive would they have to talk? They'd be going to jail too.

I didn't necessarily mean the hitman would immediately come out and spill the beans on who hired him. But he would definitely feel burned about not getting paid, especially if he killed an innocent person. And I'm sure if this guy was unprofessional, he wouldn't want to risk killing yet another person (this being the guy who hired him). So the only other way to get back at this person would be to expose him, either by going to the authorities (seems unlikely since this person would almost certainly then be incarcerated and maybe executed), or even more likely brag about it to others in the town, friends, relatives, etc. But there have been zero leads, or rumors, or anything involving Flores. That's kind of why I think this hitman was a professional.

Was the original CCTV footage from the parking lot ever released to the public??? Sometimes even the smallest details on a vehicles can spur the memory

Good morning, I want to let you know that you really scared the 'bajeeezus' out of me! lol. You used to have the photo of the nurse who was killed on UM on this website. Well I didnt realize that she was a victim in real life, never remembered her case on UM until i saw the episode last week on youtube. The first thing that popped onto the screen of that episode was your picture of the nurse. I actually thought your picture was simply a random photo you found online. When I saw the nurses photo at the beginning of the episode on youtube I kind of jumped back a tiny bit in my chair. It did not make sense to me - so that is what scared me. Wanted to share this story with you. Have a good day.

One would tend to think so, but it isn't necessarily always the case, especially if the hiring individual is not a member of organized crime, or a "small-timer". Often, they take what they can get for the price they can afford to pay. Hitmen are not always incredibly competent.

Sometimes those who hire hits will purposely give their hires vague descriptions of the target. It is left up to the "professional" to do their homework and zero in on the correct individual. Many times this is done to decrease the volume (or obscure the content) of message traffic between the employer and employee, so that there may be less evidence of a contract should LE begin looking in their direction.

Matt Flores = Don Johnston. Both mistaken hits. (We can also add in the two Mary murders, as well). It makes one wonder if mistaken hits are not more common than we typically imagine.

And, as others have said, the most interesting thing about this case, to me, is who the real target was.

I think a hitman would be more likely just to kill the person who didn't pay him. What incentive would they have to talk? They'd be going to jail too.

1) The hitman can't really kill the person who hired him/her as that would completely eliminate the source of their income.And while one murder might easily done and "gotten away with", two would make things exponentially harder.

Most (although not all) killers are smart enough to get a portion of their fee upfront in case things go wrong or the "client" changes their mind.. There is , in fact, little incentive for anybody to pay a killer if the killer does the work w/o being partially paid upfront.

2) If the hitman is caught, there would have to be a incentive for them not to give up the person that hired them. An organized crime group can use the treat of violence against the killer or his family. Or simply have the killer himself killed.

An average person hiring a killer doesn't usually possess the tools or connections to accomplish that and is vulnerable to having their hired killer turn on them in an effort to either obtain a lower sentence or to avoid the death penalty. That's part of the reason that "murder for hire" plots almost always works better in the movies and on TV than it does in real life.

This person who was hired would almost certainly not be paid by whomever hired this hit, because he killed the wrong target. And that in turn would cause some dissention amongst the hitman and the person who hired him, and if this guy was a small time hood the odds of him blowing the whistle and talking are higher if he wasn't paid.

That might be the case...if the wrong target was hit. In this case, I don't think that's what happened. Flores seems to have been the target and his death was the reason that the assailants were in the parking lot.

Here's why I think so:

1) The police never found the vehicle used in the hit.
2) No one has ever called in a credible tip towards the identity of the killer(s)
3) The killer actually did kill Flores (not just wound him).
4) The killers managed to avoid being seen up close in a crowded parking lot.
5) They apparently left no DNA/forensics on crime scene. Or left so little that it was impossible to use it to locate them or determine their identities.

There are many more but these all suggests the work of an experienced killer or killers.

Personally, I've always thought that some aspect of Flores persona life was missed by the police and that this was the reason for his murder. Maybe it was gambling...drugs...an affair..not really sure. But since the police were never able to find another person that resembled Flores and drove the same type of car that may have had a reason to be killed, it seems very likely that Flores was the intended target.

honestly, this is one of those cases that is tough for me to figure out. he COULD have been a mistaken identity hit or he may have been the target, but the fact is, i havent heard anything on this case and i feel for the wife and his daughter.

Personally, I've always thought that some aspect of Flores persona life was missed by the police and that this was the reason for his murder. Maybe it was gambling...drugs...an affair..not really sure. But since the police were never able to find another person that resembled Flores and drove the same type of car that may have had a reason to be killed, it seems very likely that Flores was the intended target.

As well as the above, I've always been curious about the background of Flores being hired for this job. Why had the former employee left the position? Was there any internal candidates up for this as well before they decided to hire Flores? Any kind of contention going on, that didn't directly involve Flores, but did involve his employer?

The mistaken identity theory makes sense on the face of it, but there is one detail that makes me think it might not have been a mistake.

As we all know, the surveillance tape shows the perp pull into the lot a few minutes before Matt gets there. A couple of minutes after the perp pulls in, another white car that looked similar to Matt's pulls in; this car actually pulls into the exact parking space Matt would later pull in. The perp follows this car and then comes back a couple of minutes later. To me this suggests he saw the person and decided it was not the target. And then a couple of minutes after that, Matt pulls in, the perp follows, and we know the rest.

My point is, if the hitman had the wrong person, and if he was simply going to kill anyone in a white car, why did he not kill the first guy? (I wonder if the first car had a woman in it? That might explain it). But still, it seems odd that he follows the first car and doesn't kill the person inside it but then kills Matt. It just suggests to me that he did know who he was looking for.

EDIT: TheCars1986 makes a good point as well: if the hitman got the wrong guy, he didn't get paid and would likely have talked by now or killed someone else in a similar (bullet behind the ear) fashion.

My point is, if the hitman had the wrong person, and if he was simply going to kill anyone in a white car, why did he not kill the first guy? (I wonder if the first car had a woman in it? That might explain it). But still, it seems odd that he follows the first car and doesn't kill the person inside it but then kills Matt. It just suggests to me that he did know who he was looking for.

Exactly. I don't see how it's conceivable that a hitman would just walk up and blow away the first male that pulled up at that time in a white car. It's borderline impossible. This guy had to have a general (at the bare minimum) description of his target. I agree with cocytus, the stealth like way this killing was carried out suggest a professional, who was hired to kill Flores.

Personally, I've always thought that some aspect of Flores persona life was missed by the police and that this was the reason for his murder. Maybe it was gambling...drugs...an affair..not really sure. But since the police were never able to find another person that resembled Flores and drove the same type of car that may have had a reason to be killed, it seems very likely that Flores was the intended target.

If Flores was the intended victim, this is almost certainly the case.

Who stood to benefit most from his death? Does anyone know if police ever investigated a 'murder for hire' scenario involving the wife?

i would assume that all the questions we asked about the matt flores case were already asked by the police, detectives, and even friends and relatives of police who talked about the case in public. yes, police would have questioned the wife. if this case happened in 1950, then maybe no, but during the past couple decades the first thing police and detectives do is question the surviving spouse of the killed victim. since this is usally the case.

Who stood to benefit most from his death? Does anyone know if police ever investigated a 'murder for hire' scenario involving the wife?

They recently re-aired this one (with Farina as the host, unfortunately) on Lifetime and brought up a detail I forgot about. UM stated Flores was living in Georgia at the time he got the job, and was actually only in California for a brief training program before he returned to Georgia to resume work at his new job. He was only there for nine days until he was gunned down. What exactly could Flores have done in those nine days to upset someone so much (in a town where he didn't live, let alone know anyone) to either hire someone to kill him, or kill him themself? And if Flores was targeted by someone in Georgia, why not wait for him to get back to kill him? This really bolsters the mistaken hit theory ten-fold, IMO.

All of these years watching UM and I missed that little detail. The way UM described the company as being "based out of California's Silicon Valley", I just assumed he moved his family out there and that's where he was working.

They recently re-aired this one (with Farina as the host, unfortunately) on Lifetime and brought up a detail I forgot about. UM stated Flores was living in Georgia at the time he got the job, and was actually only in California for a brief training program before he returned to Georgia to resume work at his new job. He was only there for nine days until he was gunned down. What exactly could Flores have done in those nine days to upset someone so much (in a town where he didn't live, let alone know anyone) to either hire someone to kill him, or kill him themself? And if Flores was targeted by someone in Georgia, why not wait for him to get back to kill him? This really bolsters the mistaken hit theory ten-fold, IMO.

All of these years watching UM and I missed that little detail. The way UM described the company as being "based out of California's Silicon Valley", I just assumed he moved his family out there and that's where he was working.


Interesting. I also missed this detail but it is huge. I've always had a huge problem with the hit theory. Not to say it isn't plausible, but it just seemed so unlikely. It seems even more unlikely that a targeted hit would come to California and do him in. That now leaves the mistaken hit and the random killing theory; of which I lean more towards a random killing. I don't think it's all that unlikely that some thug was looking for somebody to attempt to rob and/or carjack and they picked Matt.

Interesting. I also missed this detail but it is huge. I've always had a huge problem with the hit theory. Not to say it isn't plausible, but it just seemed so unlikely. It seems even more unlikely that a targeted hit would come to California and do him in. That now leaves the mistaken hit and the random killing theory; of which I lean more towards a random killing. I don't think it's all that unlikely that some thug was looking for somebody to attempt to rob and/or carjack and they picked Matt.

It's highly unlikely that someone would attempt to carjack someone at nine in the morning in a busy business parking lot. Plus he was shot behind the head at point blank range, and his car was not stolen or attempted to be stolen, so I doubt it was a carjacking gone wrong. As for a robbery that also seems unlikely since nothing was taken from Flores and his assailant quickly after he killed him. And if someone was attempting to rob Flores, why immediately draw the gun and execute him? Wouldn't it be less obvious and easier to try and steal without using any violence, let alone firing a gun off in the middle of a busy morning at a business complex? This guy obviously gave Flores no chance whatsoever to defend himself or resist (if this were a robbery attempt) since he just shot him as soon as he opened his car door. Definitely sounds like a mistaken hit to me.

I don't remember seeing this episode, but I just read through the thread. I think it could have been any one of the scenarios presented. But another comes to mind also.

I think it could be likely that it was a successful hit. Planned to take place while he was in CA to take the blame off the person in GA that hired the hit.

And who would that be? Well, Could be that Flores was not the nice guy people thought he was. Suppose he was abusive, kept it well hidden and the wife had had enough?

What if it was a psycho ex-lover of either him or his wife?

Nice people get caught up in affairs. it happens all the time. What if he had one, broke it off and there was an angry ex wanting revenge?

It's highly unlikely that someone would attempt to carjack someone at nine in the morning in a busy business parking lot. Plus he was shot behind the head at point blank range, and his car was not stolen or attempted to be stolen, so I doubt it was a carjacking gone wrong. As for a robbery that also seems unlikely since nothing was taken from Flores and his assailant quickly after he killed him. And if someone was attempting to rob Flores, why immediately draw the gun and execute him? Wouldn't it be less obvious and easier to try and steal without using any violence, let alone firing a gun off in the middle of a busy morning at a business complex? This guy obviously gave Flores no chance whatsoever to defend himself or resist (if this were a robbery attempt) since he just shot him as soon as he opened his car door. Definitely sounds like a mistaken hit to me.

I don't think an attempted robbery/carjacking is any less likely that a murder-for-hire in the middle of a busy parking lot. Your right that there's no obvious signs of a carjacking or robbery, but I don't think it should be completely ruled out. Who knows, perhaps the killer panicked and shot Matt and had to escape before he was seen. The behavior of the supposed car that the killer was driving was already very spastic and bewildering so it's not out of the question that the killer was in a similar state of mind.

Again, I just find it very hard to imagine why Matt Flores would be targeted; everything in his background checked out. And the million dollar question I want answered: Why would a professional hitman chose to kill Matt in such a public way when the risk of being seen and caught be highest? Doesn't make sense.

I don't think an attempted robbery/carjacking is any less likely that a murder-for-hire in the middle of a busy parking lot. Your right that there's no obvious signs of a carjacking or robbery, but I don't think it should be completely ruled out. Who knows, perhaps the killer panicked and shot Matt and had to escape before he was seen. The behavior of the supposed car that the killer was driving was already very spastic and bewildering so it's not out of the question that the killer was in a similar state of mind.

Again, I just find it very hard to imagine why Matt Flores would be targeted; everything in his background checked out. And the million dollar question I want answered: Why would a professional hitman chose to kill Matt in such a public way when the risk of being seen and caught be highest? Doesn't make sense.

The car that was captured on surveillance footage was seen following a similiar car to Matt's that morning. If this were a robbery attempt, why didn't this person get robbed and/or killed? I agree with you, I don't think Flores was the target since everything in his background checked out. I honestly don't think this was the work of a professional either. There have been several UM segments involving murder for hire in which the person hired was a local layman who was hired to kill for a petty amount (usually less that $5,000). This could have been the case with Flores. Someone may have hired an inexperienced local to kill someone else (who drove a similar car to Matt's, or looked like Matt, etc.), and Matt was killed by mistake.

Or if this wasn't a mistaken hit, maybe this was the work of a serial Zodiac-like killer, who was killing at random. Unlikely, but still plausible.

I think it could be likely that it was a successful hit. Planned to take place while he was in CA to take the blame off the person in GA that hired the hit.

And who would that be? Well, Could be that Flores was not the nice guy people thought he was. Suppose he was abusive, kept it well hidden and the wife had had enough?

What if it was a psycho ex-lover of either him or his wife?

Nice people get caught up in affairs. it happens all the time. What if he had one, broke it off and there was an angry ex wanting revenge?

I'm sure LE investigated any leads involving any affairs Flores could have been having, or if there was any tension in his marriage, and they would have found something if there was actually something there to find. But they didn't find anything shady, so that tells me Flores was on the up and up. But let's assume that this was a murder for hire. Whoever hired this person had to have been loaded with money to be able to hire a professional hitman, who would then travel all the way to California, just to kill him while he was away at his job training. That's airfare, a rental car, a motel, not to mention the fee that was paid to have Flores killed.

The car that was captured on surveillance footage was seen following a similiar car to Matt's that morning. If this were a robbery attempt, why didn't this person get robbed and/or killed?


I'm playing devil's advocate, but is it out of the question to assume the suspect's following of a car similar to Matt's was a mere coincidence? Could the suspect have been perusing the lot to find the perfect victim? A victim that was parked away from security cameras, with no witnesses in the immediate vicinity? Perhaps the suspect followed the first car only to see that the car was parking in a less-than-desirable place in the parking lot. Then comes Matt Flores who matches the criteria needed to attempt a fast theft or robbery.

The suspect following the first white car is where the mistaken hit theory is rooted in. If somebody paid a hitman to kill a certain person, I would assume they would have an exact make/model of the car. Maybe even an exact description of what the person would be wearing that morning.

It certainly wouldn't have been terribly difficult for LE to determine what Applied Materials employees had a similar car to Matt's as well as similar physical features. Investigating that route should have led to some answers I would imagine. But perhaps we don't know if this was ever explored and obviously nothing has come from it.

I'm playing devil's advocate, but is it out of the question to assume the suspect's following of a car similar to Matt's was a mere coincidence? Could the suspect have been perusing the lot to find the perfect victim? A victim that was parked away from security cameras, with no witnesses in the immediate vicinity? Perhaps the suspect followed the first car only to see that the car was parking in a less-than-desirable place in the parking lot. Then comes Matt Flores who matches the criteria needed to attempt a fast theft or robbery.

I doubt a robber would know the layout of the parking lot well enough to know where the blind spots were in the parking lot. Unless this was a former, disgruntled employee who somehow got laid off and was frustrated with the company and/or the "new" employees they were training at the facility.

UM stated Flores was living in Georgia at the time he got the job, and was actually only in California for a brief training program before he returned to Georgia to resume work at his new job. He was only there for nine days until he was gunned down. What exactly could Flores have done in those nine days to upset someone so much (in a town where he didn't live, let alone know anyone) to either hire someone to kill him, or kill him themself?

This has been touched upon, but i don't believe expanded...

Maybe we're looking at things from the wrong angle.


Why exactly did Flores leave the military to take up this job in Silicon Valley? We're not told.

What we know is: At the time of the shooting he was 26. We don't know anything about him before it mentions he was married in 1990. So he was in the military for a minimum of 3 years. Or anything up to a maximum of 8 years (maybe serving since he was 18 until he was killed at 26).

UM states he served as a 2nd Lieutenant with Distinction in Desert Storm. Maybe he heard or saw things he shouldn't have repeated. Maybe he had Gulf War Syndrome but at the time couldn't pinpoint what exactly was wrong and decided to get out of the military.


Could it be that someone within his military past wasn't happy with his move (maybe he was taking "official secrets" with him or knew some things he shouldn't) and so this was a professional hit or an inside job...

hence why we just can't seem to get all the necessary details?

This case was very interesting certainly a underrated case in the UM universe.

This has been touched upon, but i don't believe expanded...

Maybe we're looking at things from the wrong angle.


Why exactly did Flores leave the military to take up this job in Silicon Valley? We're not told.

What we know is: At the time of the shooting he was 26. We don't know anything about him before it mentions he was married in 1990. So he was in the military for a minimum of 3 years. Or anything up to a maximum of 8 years (maybe serving since he was 18 until he was killed at 26).

UM states he served as a 2nd Lieutenant with Distinction in Desert Storm. Maybe he heard or saw things he shouldn't have repeated. Maybe he had Gulf War Syndrome but at the time couldn't pinpoint what exactly was wrong and decided to get out of the military.


Could it be that someone within his military past wasn't happy with his move (maybe he was taking "official secrets" with him or knew some things he shouldn't) and so this was a professional hit or an inside job...

hence why we just can't seem to get all the necessary details?

I doubt this had anything to do with his military career. UM certainly wouldn't have passed the opportunity to add another "mysterious" angle to their story, and if there was evidence of something from his military background I'm sure at the very least his wife would have known about it. And I'm not of the belief that our government would willingly hire someone to kill one of their ex soldiers (who served as a second Lt. in Desert Storm) for their own nefarious reasons.

I doubt this had anything to do with his military career. UM certainly wouldn't have passed the opportunity to add another "mysterious" angle to their story, and if there was evidence of something from his military background I'm sure at the very least his wife would have known about it. And I'm not of the belief that our government would willingly hire someone to kill one of their ex soldiers (who served as a second Lt. in Desert Storm) for their own nefarious reasons.

Difficult to know as maybe UM were afraid to get sued if there was no evidence to back up that angle.

As for what the military would and wouldn't do, as an example I only touched on Gulf War Syndrome, but remember they denied its very existence for years, They weren't exactly going out of their way to help ex-soldiers there.

Difficult to know as maybe UM were afraid to get sued if there was no evidence to back up that angle.

As for what the military would and wouldn't do, as an example I only touched on Gulf War Syndrome, but remember they denied its very existence for years, They weren't exactly going out of their way to help ex-soldiers there.

UM definitely didn't have any problem presenting the military conspiracy angle, because they did it with such segments as Michael Carmichael, Billy Ray Hargrove, David Cox, Jeffrey Digman, and Chad Langford (among others). And some of those segments (Langford in particular) had bare minimum circumstantial evidence that hinted at some sort of military involvement.

UM definitely didn't have any problem presenting the military conspiracy angle, because they did it with such segments as Michael Carmichael, Billy Ray Hargrove, David Cox, Jeffrey Digman, and Chad Langford (among others). And some of those segments (Langford in particular) had bare minimum circumstantial evidence that hinted at some sort of military involvement.

I agree. I highly doubt it had anything to do with his military career. I also do not believe it was a mistaken hit because if it was, then the person who was supposed to be killed must have worked with Matt. I have to think that if someone else was killed after Matt that worked there, it would have been mentioned. The only things I can think of for this case is a jealous co-worker who maybe wanted the position Matt received or just some crazy random idiot who wanted to kill someone. Hell, maybe it was a road rage person who Matt flipped off on the highway. Sad case.

I agree. I highly doubt it had anything to do with his military career. I also do not believe it was a mistaken hit because if it was, then the person who was supposed to be killed must have worked with Matt. I have to think that if someone else was killed after Matt that worked there, it would have been mentioned. The only things I can think of for this case is a jealous co-worker who maybe wanted the position Matt received or just some crazy random idiot who wanted to kill someone. Hell, maybe it was a road rage person who Matt flipped off on the highway. Sad case.

I don't think it was a crazed co-worker. Matt was only in Silicone Valley for a couple of weeks for training. I doubt (althought I guess it's possible) that he could have angered a co-worker in that small time frame to the point of murder. Now, you do bring up an interesting point I've never thought about. This may very well have been the case of a psychopath who was driving on the freeway who felt Matt cut him off, or did something else to set him off and followed him to the parking lot and killed him. If it were a case of road rage, the random nature of the murder would make it almost impossible to solve.

I don't think it was a crazed co-worker. Matt was only in Silicone Valley for a couple of weeks for training. I doubt (althought I guess it's possible) that he could have angered a co-worker in that small time frame to the point of murder. Now, you do bring up an interesting point I've never thought about. This may very well have been the case of a psychopath who was driving on the freeway who felt Matt cut him off, or did something else to set him off and followed him to the parking lot and killed him. If it were a case of road rage, the random nature of the murder would make it almost impossible to solve.

It may not have been something that he specifically did to a co-worker. Maybe a co-worker also interviewed for the position Matt ended up getting and was pissed off about it.

To me, the crazed motorist seems most likely. An act of random violence. I drive 30 minutes to work everyday. I see some of the same cars on my journey to and from work. Maybe in a day leading up to his death or the day of his death, Matt inadvertently pissed off a motorist and this motorist became so enraged that he followed him and killed him.

Was anything taken from Matt? I mean, when a guy does a hit, he takes the persons wedding ring back as proof that he killed the right person.

Was anything taken from Matt? I mean, when a guy does a hit, he takes the persons wedding ring back as proof that he killed the right person.

I don't beleive anything was taken. The hitman theory is just that, a theory.

I've started to think that it could have been an isolated road rage incident. Maybe Matt cut a guy off on the highway or flipped someone off. That person may have gotten so angry that they followed him to find out where he worked. Now if this theory is correct, then I doubt that Matt was killed the day of the road rage because video surveillance showed the killers car circling around the parking lot for a while. I believe that the killer may have followed Matt there the day they had the incident but could not retaliate for some reason. Maybe too many people were around, Matt was with someone, didn't have a weapon, etc.. and he came back the day of the murder waiting for Matt. IMO, this is just as plausible as the hitman theory.

I don't beleive anything was taken. The hitman theory is just that, a theory.

I've started to think that it could have been an isolated road rage incident. Maybe Matt cut a guy off on the highway or flipped someone off. That person may have gotten so angry that they followed him to find out where he worked. Now if this theory is correct, then I doubt that Matt was killed the day of the road rage because video surveillance showed the killers car circling around the parking lot for a while. I believe that the killer may have followed Matt there the day they had the incident but could not retaliate for some reason. Maybe too many people were around, Matt was with someone, didn't have a weapon, etc.. and he came back the day of the murder waiting for Matt. IMO, this is just as plausible as the hitman theory.

Yeah, because if it was a hit, he should have had something personal taken from him.

Yeah, because if it was a hit, he should have had something personal taken from him.
maybe he did and LE just isn't letting that fact be known.oftentimes they will not reveal all of the evidence,just as they did with the video tape in ths case.
That said,the segment did say Matt was driving a rental car.So if it wasn't a mistaken hit,doesn't that imply someone who had close knowledge of Matt during that time,including what kind of rental car he was driving?

That said,the segment did say Matt was driving a rental car.So if it wasn't a mistaken hit,doesn't that imply someone who had close knowledge of Matt during that time,including what kind of rental car he was driving?

Could just be a sicko that Matt cut off on the freeway. The more I think about it, the more this seems like a road rage incident. Matt was only in the area for two weeks to be trained before he returned home, how could he have upset someone that much (in such a small time frame) for them to order a hit on him? And the mistaken hit theory doesn't hold up, because if true it would mean that there was an obvious hit out on someone, and there's no evidence that someone else working for the comapny was murdered or died under mysterious circumstances shortly after Matt's murder.

Regardless of what exactly happened, I tend to think this was a random act of violence. Be it a road rage incident, or perhaps some junkie who followed Matt because he was dressed nice and decided to rob him for quick cash, they are more plausbile IMHO than any of the "hitman theories".

I solved this that day

How so,Fowler?
And IMO it wasn't likely to be road rage..it was too targeted and planned,IMO.road rage is quick and unplanned,and the driver would have been tailing him into the parking lot,NOT arriving before he got there,even knowing whereabouts he would park.
I do wonder if the driver could have been a female though.Perhaps that's why they didn't want the actual footage shown.that,and they didn't want to give away what exactly was in the real footage.
I just don't see it road rage.Perhaps someone who wanted Matt's new position,and they did a hit away from home to throw LE off the trail.JMO.

The day Matt died, I was taken to moffet naval air station. Where. The wife of an officer came thru the gate smelling like gun powder. She lived on base an opened the bank that morning and was late. They waited for her husband to get home? From where? These sane people were being investigated for embezzeling 25,000 from me. U was also part of applied materials investigation, guess what? The same people had friends and relatives working at applied. The camera was broke why bad video but the shooter knew this already. Naval intelligence covered this up for their own family and friends from. Moffett. 5years later they embezzeled200k from me and were allowed to steal my home. Moffetts Navy did it

That might be the case...if the wrong target was hit. In this case, I don't think that's what happened. Flores seems to have been the target and his death was the reason that the assailants were in the parking lot.

Here's why I think so:

1) The police never found the vehicle used in the hit.
2) No one has ever called in a credible tip towards the identity of the killer(s)
3) The killer actually did kill Flores (not just wound him).
4) The killers managed to avoid being seen up close in a crowded parking lot.
5) They apparently left no DNA/forensics on crime scene. Or left so little that it was impossible to use it to locate them or determine their identities.

There are many more but these all suggests the work of an experienced killer or killers.

Personally, I've always thought that some aspect of Flores persona life was missed by the police and that this was the reason for his murder. Maybe it was gambling...drugs...an affair..not really sure. But since the police were never able to find another person that resembled Flores and drove the same type of car that may have had a reason to be killed, it seems very likely that Flores was the intended target.
I agree.and I wonder about the affair part,too.I know it was said Matt was a nice guy and all,but even nice guys sometimes do the wrong thing,and he was away from home for a number of days.perhaps it was someone from the hotel/motel,whatever place he was staying at,that found out he was married.JAT.

There were 2 investigations both at applied materials and Moffett naval airstation. Both lead to moffetts command staff. The navy had family and friends working at applied. That morning a women who was late opening their navy credit union came thru the gate after his death smelling like gun powder and her officer husband was nowhere. To be found until late afternoon. There wad no reason for them RI be off base that early.

It was the navy you will see. I met Matt once. Then they showed from. Moffett field he was killed by navy trash

The day Matt died, I was taken to moffet naval air station. Where. The wife of an officer came thru the gate smelling like gun powder. She lived on base an opened the bank that morning and was late. They waited for her husband to get home? From where? These sane people were being investigated for embezzeling 25,000 from me. U was also part of applied materials investigation, guess what? The same people had friends and relatives working at applied. The camera was broke why bad video but the shooter knew this already. Naval intelligence covered this up for their own family and friends from. Moffett. 5years later they embezzeled200k from me and were allowed to steal my home. Moffetts Navy did it

Riiiiiiiggggghhhhhhhttttttt.

Why did the officer's wife smell like gun powder if she's the one who seems to be being accused here of shooting Flores outside in a parking lot?

I'm far from a firearms expert, but I've put hundreds of rounds through a few different handguns over the years, at both at indoor and outdoor ranges, and afterwords, I did not noticeably smell like gun powder.

Most recently, I shot 8 rounds outdoors at a close range target, and certainly didn't smell like gun powder. I don't understand how this woman was carrying the stench around with her throughout her day after possibly being the perp who shot Matt ONCE and quickly fled.

The investigator interviewed on UM stated that he thought this may have been a case of mistaken identity. That tells me that LE checked into possible reasons someone would want Flores dead (debt, affair, etc.) and found nothing.

I am right and you dont understand moffetts navy that did this as for the gun powder smell the shooter was inside her vehicle couldnt drop the gun could they and rolledup windows can concentrate a used gun as for a random act no unlikely, the video they have is terrible because applied materials video camera was broken, if you moved it it would slump over and be useless, i was at applied materials doing investigation for this as I met MATT FLORES while working asa pinkerton security guard at a defense contractor now B.A.E.Sytems. his friend interview there how i met matt and why I was the one asked to look after his daughter and wife. go and ask Matts widow who I am. you'll see

Riiiiiiiggggghhhhhhhttttttt.
Seriously.....

Ask matts widow who i am or his daughter:eek:

I just put these pics in the Location thread but I thought I'd put them here too...

This was Matt's building at Applied Materials, #12 at 3225 Oakmead Village Drive in Santa Clara. The white explorer was seen entering and exiting the parking lot right here. There is no back entrance to the building.

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad64/andy80_bucket/MATT3.jpg

The only way to get a view of the parking lot is through an an aerial shot. Matt's building is to the right and Matt was shot somewhere at the middle to upper left of the picture. It matches up with what was shown in the segment.

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad64/andy80_bucket/MATT1.jpg

Someone mentioned to me once that the reason why no one saw a shooter or really heard anything is there may have been a sniper in wait for Matt Flores, or whoever their intended target was. I wonder if someone in Matt's military background would've wanted him dead? :(

Ty

It was recent history here in Santa clara

Seriously.....

Ask matts widow who i am or his daughter:eek:

How are any of us supposed to ask Matt's widow or daughter and who should we say you are? I don't doubt what you say, it just seems odd that you claim it to be so apparent yet no arrests have been made.

How are any of us supposed to ask Matt's widow or daughter and who should we say you are? I don't doubt what you say, it just seems odd that you claim it to be so apparent yet no arrests have been made.
take it to the u.m. team as well ask them about coldcase files the show did an episode i think.

take it to the u.m. team as well ask them about coldcase files the show did an episode i think.

And tell them what, that some homophobic guy on the internet claims the murders were thrill kills by kids of naval people motivated by jealousy over his alleged crush on Matt because some woman who went to church liked him? Oh, and they stole money from the homophobic guy too after possibly orchestrating a car accident so they'd have something to steal? And should we use the code names you've assigned to people in the other thread?
1) We'd get a "thank you", a pat on the head and a lollipop as they laughed us out of the police station (or a free 3 night stay on a 5150 at a lovely mental health facility)
2) If you have information, YOU should go to the cops, Unsolved Mysteries or wherever. If you think local police are involved, go to the state police.

Hey Necco, there's really no use replying to posters like that person.

I tried in a thread about Gilbert Ortiz last year, and it's just an exercise in irritation and frustration. ;)

Hey Necco, there's really no use replying to posters like that person.

I tried in a thread about Gilbert Ortiz last year, and it's just an exercise in irritation and frustration. ;)

I should know better. I bet his favorite song is "Under the Bridge".

You idiots think i havent been to the police about this?

You idiots think i havent been to the police about this?

There is no need for those words. You're risking a ban with your crude remarks. Keep it civilized.

You idiots think i havent been to the police about this?

Knock off the abusive attitude Fowler69 or you will no longer be allowed to post on this board!!

is matt gay or bi? this could explain alot.....

Try NO.

Seriously.....

Ask matts widow who i am or his daughter:eek:

What's your name, maybe if the family comes on this site they'd recognize your name and listen to what you have to say. Throwing out all these allegations without any evidence isn't really helping your argument.

Maybe they could look into Moffetts find the pieces of the murder weapon game and why we were having to search the on Moffett feild naval base drainage systems and we found what?

A piece of a dissasembled weapon from one of the suspected murder(s) whos Military issued high caliber side arm went missing that day along with its owner again from the navy in MountainView,California.

Oh Denise really isnt talking to me much these days, All this info and no arrest ,yeah.

Has anyone considered that this could have been a road rage incident? Like maybe Matt cut someone off or almost hit someone then gestures where exchanged after which the person followed him and shot him

I don't see how it could be road rage..the person who shot him got there before him and apparently knew he would be there and approx.when.Road rage is spur of the moment,not someone knowing whom they are looking for,and waiting to kill them, so many minutes ahead of time.
It lookes like a hit to me.Whether they got the right or wrong person,who knows.

is matt gay or bi? this could explain alot.....

Explain what? I don't see what you're getting at. :smash:

Has anyone considered that this could have been a road rage incident? Like maybe Matt cut someone off or almost hit someone then gestures where exchanged after which the person followed him and shot him

Yes, I mentioned that earlier in the thread. My theory is if this is a road rage incident, its likely something that happened prior to the day Matt was killed as the vehicle appears to be looking for Matt in the parking lot. The driver seems to know that he will be there at some point to park and go to work and is circling looking for him. Maybe a day or so earlier, Matt got into it with another driver who happened to see Matt pull into his work parking lot and came back later to get revenge on him.

It is NOT road rage or a case of!

These murders arrived at Applied pre and post his death, which means they were looking for him specificaly and to revel in getting away with it and that means more then 1 person was in the vehicle.

He only interviewed at 1 place in SantaClara county,Applied Materials.

The only other place i can say I know where he was is 1450 carl st in sanjose waiting for his buddy while he interviewed.

The police grasping and covering for their friends went as far as to accuse his Army buddies and friends of it (Pathetic).

None of you were there that morning at my place of employment when the police came busting in "telling" me what I saw that morning prior to his death nor were you there when these same police choked me to unconciousness because I refused to change my story of them refusing to interceed when they knew his death was planned.

Odd thing here honestly, Most of the people that where involved or suspected in his planned death seem to all have a relative(s) that has been shot thru the head but not prior to this death.

No one ever answered my question as to if his military background played a factor in his murder and/or if a sniper is why no one saw a suspect in the parking lot the time the murder took place. :smash:

His military back ground played no part in his death. There was no sniper nor was this a random act.

What is important is the police look over MOFFETT FEILD NAVAL AIRFEILD personel files and see whom has relatives that suffered a gun shot wound to the head and are currently still alive and for the matter look into the same for SantaClara countys law enforcement relatives Both Pre and post the event.

Then do the math since only 5% of all head shot survive and based on that you/they will notice their is a oddly high number of survivors from Moffetts Navy.

These would be the relatives of all the people that participated and covered-up his death for themselves.
:angryfire

Nobody saw the murder because they saw the murder(s) and wouldnt think they'd return that soon . The witnesses were in shock and might remember seeing them drive thru.

It is them and not an I.
:wave:

Fowler69, where did you get all this information and if your so adament that this is what happened, why are you posting on this thread. What do you think your going to accomplish? By the way, you mentioned you knew Matt's wife, care to tell us how you know her if and prove you didn't just fish her name out of the news stories.

I'm not posting theorys, I'm telling you who did it as well my infor comes from 4 seperate investigations that include embezzelement another murder, his death and narcotics being dealt internationally thru the united states navy at moffett feild and the bank they used.


:confused:

[QUOTE=Concernedcitizen]Fowler69, where did you get all this information and if your so adament that this is what happened, why are you posting on this thread. What do you think your going to accomplish? By the way, you mentioned you knew Matt's wife, care to tell us how you know her if and prove you didn't just fish her name out of the news stories.[/QUOTE...]

...testy.....

How are you connected to the naval base and what is the embezzelement you are talking about, you have a lot of info here are you sure you want it aired over the internet?

To me it's still not clear what you are syaing. For a start i take it the naval base is a community with civilians living there. Second what was the motive, as the navy people had friends working at applied and didn't want matt working there as they wanted one of there own people so they were jealous he got the job, there must have been other non-navy people there why only target matt? Who got matts job afterward?

Are you also saying that the police covered up the truth, why would they do that beavuse they didn't want to take on the navy?

You seem to have a grudge against the navy, again how exactly are you connected to them and how did they manage to embezzle money from you?

I familar with Moffett fields former naval base because my father was on admirals staff back in the 1970's and exposed a group of sailors and their officers who where ordering date rape derivitives through Moffetts medical facility for "research" purposes and using their modified drug against people deemed their enemy.

I heard rumors they used these drugs to wipe the short term memory of people they detested then befriended the victim as part of a form of control, This as well goes to the sexual abuse of victims from moffetts navy.

I then was unfortunate to be their repeated offense for over 3 decades (30 years of it).

These people I have mentioned over the last 40 years have established themselves here in SantaClara countys goverment and legal system.

They started showing themselves in my life back before the bigelow murdered that girl in gilroy/morganhill, then attempted to get me to pay them protection money that was SanJose Police and its local district attorneys kid brother whos best buddy worked at Moffetts nasa.

I complained to local federal Prosecutors and over the 4 weeks they looked into it the month of march, I was warned to stop persisting with prosecution for them embezzeling my settlement check I put into B.O.A and was stolen and placed in Moffett fields merriwest credit union. that credit union then ruined my credit rating and literally reversed my auto loan payment and stole my vehicle.

After Matt was murdered the local federal prosecutors dropped anything that had to do with me, Moffetts navy and its merriwest friends and even allowed them to a short term memory wipe and about a year later,When I returned to them about they above acts they acted as if I never filed a complaint nor been there.

The reason I aire this here is in hope somebody will take all these posts to the real FBI not local nor even state and bring in an outside federal investigator.

Somebody had to manipulate the local feds to drop my case. Maybe a few local congress reps whom these people are friends of?

In 1999 they stole over 200k from a bank in nevada that was holding my funds and I was forced again by the feds from california to deal with Moffetts Navy in mountain view and its merriwest and again the feds dropped it.

When Matt and I met, I was working at united defense as a pinkerton guard, His buddy interviewed there an they had just gotten in from the airport and had the babies with them. I attemped to quit my job prior to that meeting over the bigelows confession to murder and telling me Moffetts Navy was trying to make it look like I did that murder. The victims body was missing and being moved around I found out later.

My contract manager tried to have her cop friend arrest me for quiting. That cop is related to the other police in my posts and she herself was part of moffetts navy and for the matter they all had/have relatives and friends that worked at applied and united defense as well merriwest.

I think what you all need from me is a timeline of events what I've been trying to remember is all the snide comments made to me after flores was taken from us by all of the above.

The Feds allowed them these crimes for refusing to arrest and prosecute Moffetts Navy for embezzlement.

All these people are interrelated by the Moffetts Navy and these people jealiousy has no means to an end.

What do you plan to do with all this info anyways, Fowler? It seems you know alot more than any of us out there. You seem to have alot of info that could break this case wide open and possibly solve it.

Fowler69 writes incredibly clearly, makes total sense, and doesn't seem crazy at all.

Fowler69, believe me I am not trying to be snide, I am just imagining how frustrating it must be for his family to not know what happened and have all these stories circulating. If you truly believe this is what happened, I urge you to come forward and bring it to light wherever you feel it may be taken seriously. That's all I am saying.

A lot of what this guy seems to be spouting is conspiracy theories. It is easy to come on a message board and say this stuff, but without real proof, it's hard to believe.

Fowler69 writes incredibly clearly, makes total sense, and doesn't seem crazy at all.

lol I made a decent attempt, but I just can't follow.
I gave up trying to understand it all.

:crazy: :dizzy: :crazy:

Theres no theory here, I was there during these events, I have taken these post and all this information to local law enforcement and they refuse to look anyfurther into it, Even took it to the local feds and federal prosecutors.

Did ya see the part where they dropped prosecuting navys embezzelment after his death or the post where pinkertons and their cops kept me here to see what "trish" had planned?

I have spoken with both matts widow and mother about this and much like myself there waiting for the fed to do something about it and wanting to know why they havent.

Theres no theory here, I was there during these events, I have taken these post and all this information to local law enforcement and they refuse to look anyfurther into it, Even took it to the local feds and federal prosecutors.

Did ya see the part where they dropped prosecuting navys embezzelment after his death or the post where pinkertons and their cops kept me here to see what "trish" had planned?

I have spoken with both matts widow and mother about this and much like myself there waiting for the fed to do something about it and wanting to know why they havent.

Maybe we would understand better if you made a bullet pointed timeline.

im almost ready for it, I just need one more bit of info with reguards to these same people trying to set me up for the bigelow murder then I set this in stone for ya...

Theres no theory here, I was there during these events, I have taken these post and all this information to local law enforcement and they refuse to look anyfurther into it, Even took it to the local feds and federal prosecutors.

Did ya see the part where they dropped prosecuting navys embezzelment after his death or the post where pinkertons and their cops kept me here to see what "trish" had planned?

I have spoken with both matts widow and mother about this and much like myself there waiting for the fed to do something about it and wanting to know why they havent.

The thing that confuses me is that he had no involvment with the Navy so I don't follow why he has anything to do with the embezzlement.

He wasnt part of the embezzelement the navy was but as quoted by the police that were involved in this its "someone must pay".

They picked Matt because of his lifestyle, married,kid great new job and a war hero, they are and are still, Cowards thieves murders all the while living at home on their navy base in mountain view and living with their parents.

How far from oakmead park way do you think moffett feild is?

But what was the point of killing him, what good would it do them?

I asked myself that too then had to dabble into the mind of a group of sociopaths, Basically when dealing with these murders you need to understand that they are pathetically selfimportant and were already looking at prison time for embezzelment as those facts are considered you need to know Matt served to appease their sociopath egos.

The whole reason:
They got caught setting up another individual for a murder he didnt committ they were being investigated by the fed for embezzelment and they knew they were going to get away with prosecution of those crimes and need to get away with one more act against the people.

Matt was what they couldnt be "NORMAL" That offends bi-polar types and sociopaths and oddly enough not psychopaths, However what you want to really know is how they picked him as you know why.

Why him specifically? Why not one of the thousands of other normal people? I don't know, some pieces just don't seem to fit.

You'd have to ask them and belive they have been asked.

But to finish this as too why him, Their crimenals why not him!

He was the ideal nuclear family type married good looking and intelligent.

These characteristics being known to them, Suite to appease/feed their egos with depriving normal people of their earned lives.

What you need to hear is this:
He wasnt a random target, This wasnt some accident and The police were informed the day he was going to be killed and refused to act until after the fact.

Which is why for the last 18 years I have been herassed by local law enforcement "officals" and had my rights continually violated because:

"I know too much"

and that comes directly from the police involved in his death.

Was anything taken from Matt? I mean, when a guy does a hit, he takes the persons wedding ring back as proof that he killed the right person.

Even if that were true, Matt wasn't killed and buried in a shallow grave in an isolated forest, never to be found (where "evidence" would be needed of a job well done). Being such a publicly executed murder, it was likely to make it to the news stations; so why would evidence be needed?

To add...

http://myyearofquestions.michellerichmond.com/2011/03/22/what-happened-to-matthew-flores/

To add...

http://myyearofquestions.michellerichmond.com/2011/03/22/what-happened-to-matthew-flores/

At least there is still some interest in this case.

Even if that were true, Matt wasn't killed and buried in a shallow grave in an isolated forest, never to be found (where "evidence" would be needed of a job well done). Being such a publicly executed murder, it was likely to make it to the news stations; so why would evidence be needed?
So your calling me a liar? well I expect better from brittish justice but if you must know, the police caught them that morning and let them go....

So your calling me a liar? well I expect better from brittish justice but if you must know, the police caught them that morning and let them go....

I think that you need to have a review of your meds...

Was my post (that you quoted) in response to a post of yours? Errmmm, nope! So, what is your problem....?

:rolleyes:

P.S. I await your apology.

Yes please. I gotta have this.



II think what you all need from me is a timeline of events what I've been trying to remember is all the snide comments made to me after flores was taken from us by all of the above. .

I think that you need to have a review of your meds...

Was my post (that you quoted) in response to a post of yours? Errmmm, nope! So, what is your problem....?

:rolleyes:

P.S. I await your apology.
then wait and continue doing that.

then wait and continue doing that.

Don't have time for delusional 'net trolls. Now on ignore ;)

Yes please. I gotta have this.
GOTTA as in you think this a joke or gotta as in I worked less then 15 minutes from flores the day he died as well was involved in an embezzelment case by the navy during that time and Imagine this:

I was threatened something would happen if I didnt let tem as in the navy handle the embezzelment, which I didnt.

oh and a key piece of fact here is Matt Flores whom I met only once was hired by applied on March 15th how do I know this exactly? seems the media let it slip they hired him on my birthday during an embezzelment case.

oh the people from the bank had relatives working at applied as did the navy.

Curious enough?

Don't have time for delusional 'net trolls. Now on ignore ;)
Stop bothering me .... You not so Smart...but imagine all the people wanting to know why the police or bobbys as you might know them allowed the murders to go free after they came back to applied after the killing with-in 1/2 of an hour.:wave:

Curious enough?


Yes very please lay it all out in time line form. I think it will help me get a full picture of the scope of it.

What the hell is going on? Is this guy just a pointless wanderer or a legit source?

The police have said they believe the killer was driving the two door Ford Explorer with black trim. If true, then I hope they cross referenced all of the vehicles that match that description in the surrounding area as well as rentals for that time.

What the hell is going on? Is this guy just a pointless wanderer or a legit source?

I have my own thoughts on that, but I assume from the posts of Corky Kneivel that he's still dangling a carrot - so I guess that it depends on what information, if any, he replies to Corky with...

...allowed the murders to go free after they came back to applied after the killing with-in 1/2 of an hour.:wave:


Fowler69, you've said previously a time line of the events would help us understand and I am greatly interested. you've laid out a lot of information and you seem to be involved in several aspects. I, for one, am greatly interested in reading all the information you can provide. :wave:

Fowler69, you've said previously a time line of the events would help us understand and I am greatly interested. you've laid out a lot of information and you seem to be involved in several aspects. I, for one, am greatly interested in reading all the information you can provide. :wave:

I second this.

Not sure if these articles have been posted here or not, but they're recent and pertain to the Matt Flores case:

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11983894

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/03/24/santa-clara-police-revisit-cold-case-still-unsolved-after-17-years/

http://myyearofquestions.michellerichmond.com/2011/03/22/what-happened-to-matthew-flores/

Thanks UM fan for the recent articles! The last few times that I've done a web search for more info on the Flores case, I've come up short.

There was something in particular about the Mercury article that bothered me though. It was reported towards the end of the article that Flores' former employer, Gary Robertson found him in the parking lot on the day of the crime. I was always under the impression that it was a female collegue who initially found Flores. Does anyone know if this was the article's mistake or did UM report incorrectly? It was also stated that Gary Robertson "no longer wants to talk about the case". Huh? Does that strike anyone else as odd?

I was originally going to suggest that LE maybe take a look at Mr. Flores' experience(s) with the military, but after reading that article....I don't know. I have to wonder how closely LE looked at the employer side of this case. JMO as always....

It was also stated that Gary Robertson "no longer wants to talk about the case". Huh? Does that strike anyone else as odd?


Yes, that is very odd. But it could mean nothing. Maybe the guy just doesn't want to drudge up some bad memories he has of finding Flores? Who knows?

Yes, that is very odd. But it could mean nothing. Maybe the guy just doesn't want to drudge up some bad memories he has of finding Flores? Who knows?

That was my thought as well. Don't really see it is as odd. Being the first on scene of a dead friend/co-worker can be a haunting experience.

I really hope this case is solved one day. I watched this one again today and it always is frustrating to watch. I don't understand.

A perplexing and tragic case. I am quite confused as to why the Ford Explorer left the lot four minutes before the killing, only to return a minute later. Obviously, s/he couldn't have gone far. Where did the person go? Why? That truly is erratic behaviour, which leads me to wonder if this was in fact some random nutcase.

If this was a hit - on Matt or on someone else - why would the hitman leave the lot for any reason before the job was done? Perhaps he briefly lost his nerve? The behaviour of the Explorer driver seems more like an erratic casing of the lot, looking for a victim. But then, why on Earth choose a young, fit man to go after? And of course, as far as we know, there wasn't anything taken from the victim.

can't they get the license no. of the vehicle from the video? I haven't seen this one in awhile,but was wondering if it could be done digitally these days,enough to produce a sharper image.jat.

can't they get the license no. of the vehicle from the video? I haven't seen this one in awhile,but was wondering if it could be done digitally these days,enough to produce a sharper image.jat.

One of the articles said that the video was "grainy", so maybe not. That could also be the reason that they recreated the video for the UM segment - to make it clearer for the viewers. Although there could be other reasons for withholding the actual tape, as well.

I still wish they could release the actual surveillance footage so maybe it could be solved finally. I still wonder why Matt was killed. I have thought about it being over his new job, some jealously over a job position perhaps, or something stemming from his time in the Army. It might be mistaken identity too, but in all an innocent person was murdered.

Someone also told me once they think a sniper could've taken out Matt, as to why no one saw a gunman. It's possible if Matt was indeed the intended target, that maybe the vehicle "stalking" Matt was a red herring to throw off investigators and in fact they should be looking into the possibility of a sniper if they haven't already.

I still wish they could release the actual surveillance footage so maybe it could be solved finally. I still wonder why Matt was killed. I have thought about it being over his new job, some jealously over a job position perhaps, or something stemming from his time in the Army. It might be mistaken identity too, but in all an innocent person was murdered.

Someone also told me once they think a sniper could've taken out Matt, as to why no one saw a gunman. It's possible if Matt was indeed the intended target, that maybe the vehicle "stalking" Matt was a red herring to throw off investigators and in fact they should be looking into the possibility of a sniper if they haven't already.
This is just such a weird case. I don't think it was related to his army service at all. I think that we don't know all the facts because this was an isolated incident with some crazy perp and there are no details. The only other possibility is that law enforcement knows more than what they were willing to share but felt that privacy was valuable to the case. This could have been a mistake hit but there were no details of who the target was?

If it were the gov't,imo,(I could be wrong) I think he would've been taken out prior to getting out of the service,esp. if he knew too much.
I tend to think it was his job,and perhaps someone wanting the position that would be open,once he was gone.
I also wonder about the vehicle leaving and then coming back.Perhaps this person passed Matt on the way out,and then turned around once he saw him,leading to the possibility that the killer knew exactly who he was looking for.
I also do not understand the original tape not being released.The killer hasn't been found after all this time,what could it hurt.

If it were the gov't,imo,(I could be wrong) I think he would've been taken out prior to getting out of the service,esp. if he knew too much.
I tend to think it was his job,and perhaps someone wanting the position that would be open,once he was gone.
I also wonder about the vehicle leaving and then coming back.Perhaps this person passed Matt on the way out,and then turned around once he saw him,leading to the possibility that the killer knew exactly who he was looking for.
I also do not understand the original tape not being released.The killer hasn't been found after all this time,what could it hurt.
Military doesn't work like that though. They only know what they need to know to do their jobs. There is crime in the military but it is usually not like what is portrayed in hollywood. It is normal crime like what we see in civilian life.. if this makes sense. It looks like a random crime to me...

There is crime in the military but it is usually not like what is portrayed in hollywood. It is normal crime like what we see in civilian life.. if this makes sense. It looks like a random crime to me...

Yeah. I always thought this was either a mistaken identity ordeal or a random act of violence.

I still wish they could release the actual surveillance footage so maybe it could be solved finally. I still wonder why Matt was killed. I have thought about it being over his new job, some jealously over a job position perhaps, or something stemming from his time in the Army. It might be mistaken identity too, but in all an innocent person was murdered.

Someone also told me once they think a sniper could've taken out Matt, as to why no one saw a gunman. It's possible if Matt was indeed the intended target, that maybe the vehicle "stalking" Matt was a red herring to throw off investigators and in fact they should be looking into the possibility of a sniper if they haven't already.

If a sniper took out Flores, then the medical examiner is highly incompetent. They should be able to tell if the bullet was fired from close range or from a distance with a simple examination of the wound.

Whoever killed Matt was brazen and risky to do it in such a public place in broad daylight with 20 other people in the parking lot at the time.

Also, if you check out Matt's building at Applied Materials on Google maps, you'll notice that there isn't a single back entrance to the entire complex. You have to leave the parking lot the same way you drive in. And when you take into consideration how far into the parking lot Matt was shot, it means the killer had to drive off through a big portion of the lot afterwards before turning off on to the street, Oakmead Village Drive. It's not as if the shooting happened right next to the exit. It's simply unbelievable that nobody would have seen something...

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad64/andy80_bucket/matt.jpg

If the killer is the driver of the explorer, it means him entering the parking lot 3 minutes before the shooting was just to be able to turn his car around so it faced the exit of the parking lot, thus making it easier for him to leave after pulling the trigger. But since Matt had not yet entered the parking lot, that would also mean the killer knew the general area of where Matt would usually park. I guess that scenario isn't completely unbelievable if the killer had been following Matt for those 9 days he was on the job. But it still seems so insanely risky.

If a sniper took out Flores, then the medical examiner is highly incompetent. They should be able to tell if the bullet was fired from close range or from a distance with a simple examination of the wound.

Was he shot at point blank range? I can't recall.

Forgive me if this has been asked, but was video surveillance available prior to the day of Matt's death to determine if the Explorer has been in the parking lot before?

Forgive me if this has been asked, but was video surveillance available prior to the day of Matt's death to determine if the Explorer has been in the parking lot before?

This is a good question and I don't know the answer to it. I assume that they did have videos from the previous days.

If it was someone from the company (i.e. a recently fired employee or someone that was passed over for a promotion that Matt got), even if they didn't have video from previous days, you would think that someone would know who drove a Ford Explorer like that.

But yes, it would be interesting to know if that vehicle had been "casing" the lot before that day (that is, to know where Matt would park; or to look for a suitable victim if Matt was not specifically targetted). I assume that there is no evidence of this but I don't know for sure.

Was he shot at point blank range? I can't recall.

I believe so. I think he was shot at close range, "execution style" in the back of his head. If I remember correctly, the re-enactment shows him essentially on his knees, slumped face-first into the driver's seat. An article that someone posted here stated that he had gotten out of his car but then leaned back in possibly to retrieve something. That would be consistent with the way the re-enactment portrayed the scene.

If the killer is the driver of the explorer, it means him entering the parking lot 3 minutes before the shooting was just to be able to turn his car around so it faced the exit of the parking lot, thus making it easier for him to leave after pulling the trigger.


recall in the reenactment,another car like Matt's had entered the lot,only it appears the driver of the explorer realized it wasn't the car/person he was looking for,so he left.

recall in the reenactment,another car like Matt's had entered the lot,only it appears the driver of the explorer realized it wasn't the car/person he was looking for,so he left.

I think the timeline was roughly:


- About 20 minutes before shooting: Explorer enters lot; parks.

- Very shortly thereafter: white car enters lot; Explorer backs up and follows it.

- Four minutes before shooting: Explorer exits lot.

- Three minutes before shooting: Explorer re-enters lot.

- Two minutes before shooting: another car (first witness on scene) and Flores' car enter the lot.


I still have to wonder WHY the Explorer left the lot at all. And as other posters have noted, there seems to be a large gap in time (approximately 15 minutes) during which the Explorer's location is unknown - presumably it is parked somewhere else in the lot.

I think the timeline was roughly:


- About 20 minutes before shooting: Explorer enters lot; parks.

- Very shortly thereafter: white car enters lot; Explorer backs up and follows it.

- Four minutes before shooting: Explorer exits lot.

- Three minutes before shooting: Explorer re-enters lot.

- Two minutes before shooting: another car (first witness on scene) and Flores' car enter the lot.


I still have to wonder WHY the Explorer left the lot at all. And as other posters have noted, there seems to be a large gap in time (approximately 15 minutes) during which the Explorer's location is unknown - presumably it is parked somewhere else in the lot.
There are many f/u questions to be answered. I don't understand why they didn't give more detail about the ford probe. They say it could have been mistaken identity and make no mention of a motive for Matt to have been shot, yet they make no reference to the identity of the driver of the probe or any other like modeled vehicles. This looks like a contract hit that could have been a mistake. If the killer knew what he was doing I doubt that he follows the wrong car....yet he did.

I guess there must be something about the vehicle that would identify it to the killer,should the vid be made public? Sounds like something he may not even be aware of? idk,jat.

There are many f/u questions to be answered. I don't understand why they didn't give more detail about the ford probe. They say it could have been mistaken identity and make no mention of a motive for Matt to have been shot, yet they make no reference to the identity of the driver of the probe or any other like modeled vehicles. This looks like a contract hit that could have been a mistake. If the killer knew what he was doing I doubt that he follows the wrong car....yet he did.

This is another strange thing about this case. If it was a hit-gone-wrong, then the killer mistook the identity of his "target" not once, but twice. Unless, of course, the driver of the first car was the intended target. I wonder if the police were able to track down the driver of the first white car? If so, I assume that they have cleared up the theory that he/she was the intended target. Yes, a lot of unanswered questions here.

I am pretty positive that this was a mistaken identity case. There don't seem to be any skeletons in Matt's closet...I totally agree that the driver of the first car needs to be questioned and or any one else in building who has a similar car..has anyone found any updates to this case?:(

I remember this being one of the most mysterious UM cases ever, because why would someone want to kill an apparently squeaky-clean guy like Matt?

I have several questions about this one:

1. There has to be some reason why they showed a re-creation of the videotape instead of the actual surveillance tape. I am dying to know what that difference is!

2. In the UM segment, Matt's wife says that they were excited about the new job because "it was going to be us making decisions, not the military." Obviously that could be just a totally innocent comment, but I wonder if maybe (in Robert Stack voice) there was something more to that statement?

3. If we accept the "bumbling hit man" theory and conclude it was a mistaken hit, how the did the hit man/men know NOT to kill the driver of the first white car?

4. If we assume it was a non-mistaken hit and the hit man got the right target, how would the hit man have known about the rental car Matt was driving? Were a lot of people in Matt's life privy to that information? (If my friend or family member got a job in another state, I doubt I'd know what type of rental car they'd been given unless they specifically emphasized it in conversation for some reason.)

I've always wondered if they didn't show the tape bc it was a woman that killed him.idk.jat.seems like they would show it,in case anyone recognized the person.other than that,it may be there was some outstanding feature about the vehicle.still seems like they would want to show that,too.esp.after all this time,and no arrest.

I've always wondered if they didn't show the tape bc it was a woman that killed him.idk.jat.seems like they would show it,in case anyone recognized the person.other than that,it may be there was some outstanding feature about the vehicle.still seems like they would want to show that,too.esp.after all this time,and no arrest.

when was that ever a factor?

I figured they didn't show the real footage because then a defense lawyer could argue that they had unfairly biased a jury pool or some such.

I don't think the tape has anything to do with the gender of the killer, as it was impossible to tell who was driving the vehicle from the real footage. I think the investigators decided on caution in this case. Necco, that's a very interesting theory.

when was that ever a factor?
I'm only theorizing that perhaps since everyone seems to assume a man killed Matt,perhaps it was just the opposite? jat.

I don't think the tape has anything to do with the gender of the killer, as it was impossible to tell who was driving the vehicle from the real footage. I think the investigators decided on caution in this case. Necco, that's a very interesting theory.
well,if the killer had large breasts,that would give it away.unless someone was dressing as a woman in disguise.jat.

well,if the killer had large breasts,that would give it away.unless someone was dressing as a woman in disguise.jat.

Um... did you confuse the Bailey's and the CoffeeMate this morning? They broadcast a frame by frame recreation of the video.

Um... did you confuse the Bailey's and the CoffeeMate this morning? They broadcast a frame by frame recreation of the video.

Something tells me that UM did not present a completely precise, frame-by-frame reproduction of the video. I assume that they held something back. Otherwise, why wouldn't they use the original video? My guess is that they (UM, at the request of the police) withheld some detail(s) that only the killer would know, in order to flush him/her out, and to weed out incorrect tips. As for not tainting the jury pool, I kind of doubt that was the reasoning, because police reveal actual surveillance footage all the time without, to my knowledge, any ill effects. I think there was another reason in this case. That said, it must not be something that would aid in the identification of the killer, because you would think that they would release whatever additional information they have that could be helpful after so much time without an arrest.

And for what it's worth, it occurred to me as well that it might have been a woman driving the Explorer, and that that was the reason they didn't show the actual footage. However, I rejected this idea because, if the recreation video is at all accurate, it seems impossible to see any of the drivers in that lot.

I remember this being one of the most mysterious UM cases ever, because why would someone want to kill an apparently squeaky-clean guy like Matt?

I have several questions about this one:

1. There has to be some reason why they showed a re-creation of the videotape instead of the actual surveillance tape. I am dying to know what that difference is!

2. In the UM segment, Matt's wife says that they were excited about the new job because "it was going to be us making decisions, not the military." Obviously that could be just a totally innocent comment, but I wonder if maybe (in Robert Stack voice) there was something more to that statement?

3. If we accept the "bumbling hit man" theory and conclude it was a mistaken hit, how the did the hit man/men know NOT to kill the driver of the first white car?

4. If we assume it was a non-mistaken hit and the hit man got the right target, how would the hit man have known about the rental car Matt was driving? Were a lot of people in Matt's life privy to that information? (If my friend or family member got a job in another state, I doubt I'd know what type of rental car they'd been given unless they specifically emphasized it in conversation for some reason.)

#3 is perplexing. As I said in another post, if it was a hit-gone-wrong, then the killer mistook the identity of his "target" not once, but twice. Unless, of course, the driver of the first car was the intended target. I assume that this theory has been ruled out; surely law enforcement thoroughly investigated the driver of the Probe to determine if he/she was the intended target.

I still find it so very odd that the Explorer exited the lot four minutes before the shooting, only to return one minute later. This sort of behaviour seems highly erratic to me and could suggest that this was some random nut. Otherwise, this was a highly jittery hitman (which, of course, is very possible as not all hitmen are "trained professionals", so to speak).

A brief note on your #4: in the segment, UM poined out that Matt's rental car had been provided to him by his employer, so it is possible that some people who worked at that company would have known what kind of rental car he was driving at that time.

Something tells me that UM did not present a completely precise, frame-by-frame reproduction of the video. I assume that they held something back. Otherwise, why wouldn't they use the original video?
My guess is that they (UM, at the request of the police) withheld some detail(s) that only the killer would know, in order to flush him/her out, and to weed out incorrect tips.
that's what I think,too.
I'm thinking it must be something in particular about the driver and or the vehicle that stands out.


As for not tainting the jury pool, I kind of doubt that was the reasoning, because police reveal actual surveillance footage all the time without, to my knowledge, any ill effects. I think there was another reason in this case.

indeed.

That said, it must not be something that would aid in the identification of the killer, because you would think that they would release whatever additional information they have that could be helpful after so much time without an arrest.perhaps something the killed could change about his/her appearance,that would make it harder for a jury to identify.
My other thought is something about the vehicle stands out,such as marks,scratches,dents,tires,etc.,that could be easily changed should the killer realize it's visible in the tape.

And for what it's worth, it occurred to me as well that it might have been a woman driving the Explorer, and that that was the reason they didn't show the actual footage. However, I rejected this idea because, if the recreation video is at all accurate, it seems impossible to see any of the drivers in that lot.
I'm wondering if technology nowadays could render it more useful,as in zooming in,digital enhancement,etc.I hope they have thought of this.

I still find it so very odd that the Explorer exited the lot four minutes before the shooting, only to return one minute later. This sort of behaviour seems highly erratic to me and could suggest that this was some random nut.

I agree, it does seem very erratic. Just thinking out loud (or rather, online, lol):

-maybe the hit man got nervous and was like, screw this I can't do it...then changed his mind again, barging back in the parking lot and taking a clean shot at Matt before gettin' the heck outta dodge?

-maybe the hit man realized (after the Probe) he needed to get his facts straight, so he went out of the lot to make a phone call in a different, nearby parking lot before heading back in? On second thought, it really doesn't seem like there was enough time for this.

The Explorer leaving the lot and then coming back is very puzzling to me. I hope that one of the first things law enforcement did is try and secure surveillance footage from all nearby parking lots...does anyone know what was in the immediate vicinity of Matt's employer at the time? Was it other business parks, or were there nearby gas stations and strip malls?

More random thoughts on this baffling case:

-WHO or WHAT would have benefitted from the death of Matt Flores?

-WHO or WHAT would have benefitted from the death of any other brown-haired guy working at Applied Materials who drive a white car?

-Was the Explorer's driver familiar with the camera setup re: the Applied Materials parking lot (thus knowing exactly where to kill Matt), or did he/she just get really lucky that Matt parked in an off-camera spot?

Something tells me that UM did not present a completely precise, frame-by-frame reproduction of the video. I assume that they held something back.

It was more the random theory that the perpetrator had big breasts and that's what the police were hiding that I was responding to. "Gee, Mr. Stack, the killer is quite stacked so we shouldn't release the footage." "If you say so, Officer Bob, but can you play it one more time for me?" :lol:

It was more the random theory that the perpetrator had big breasts and that's what the police were idea that I was responding to. "Gee, Mr. Stack, the killer is quite stacked so we shouldn't release the footage." "If you say so, Officer Bob, but can you play it one more time for me?" :lol:

:)

-Was the Explorer's driver familiar with the camera setup re: the Applied Materials parking lot (thus knowing exactly where to kill Matt), or did he/she just get really lucky that Matt parked in an off-camera spot?

I think that the killer got lucky in that respect, since Matt did not have an assigned parking space and just happened to park out of camera range.

I think that the killer got lucky in that respect, since Matt did not have an assigned parking space and just happened to park out of camera range.

That could be the case, but how do we know that Flores was not a creature of habit and always parked in the same space?

Also, did UM say what time of the morning this happened at?

That could be the case, but how do we know that Flores was not a creature of habit and always parked in the same space?

Also, did UM say what time of the morning this happened at?

I believe that this was something like his ninth day on the job, which is not a long time to establish a pattern with regard to his parking habits. Nevertheless, it is possible that he parked in the same space, or in the same general area, each day that he had been working there.

UM did present a very specific timeline regarding the crime, but I do not remember it precisely. I believe that it was around 8:30 a.m.

This case just puzzles me so much, because if it was some sort of "hit" (mistaken or otherwise), who the heck orders a hit at a busy time of the morning in a crowded parking lot?! Wouldn't it be easier to lure Matt out to an isolated area and bump him off there, or shoot him somewhere at night when it's darker?

Also, do we know anything about what the wife has done in the years since Matt's death? Has she been focused on finding the killer?

It was more the random theory that the perpetrator had big breasts and that's what the police were hiding that I was responding to. "Gee, Mr. Stack, the killer is quite stacked so we shouldn't release the footage." "If you say so, Officer Bob, but can you play it one more time for me?" :lol:
ok silly but i think the point was that they were holding something back;it could have been a hat or ponytail or glasses the killer was wearing,anything to alert the killer,should he /she have been watching,that he /she shouldn't dress that way again,or should disguise him /herself.
or it could have been something about the vehicle itself.the tires,a sticker,who knows.
i would presume his wife has seen it and can't come up with anything on it.I do think she was sincere and was not involved in it.

ok silly but i think the point was that they were holding something back;it could have been a hat or ponytail or glasses the killer was wearing,anything to alert the killer,should he /she have been watching,that he /she shouldn't dress that way again,or should disguise him /herself.
or it could have been something about the vehicle itself.the tires,a sticker,who knows.

I think it would have to be something quite uncommon or particularly special though for them to hold it back.

If it was something too common it would probably make it too difficult for them to narrow down among the population.

I mean (just trying to think of examples here) - could it be something like a customized license plate, the fact that it was a government vehicle of some kind etc.

I think it would have to be something quite uncommon or particularly special though for them to hold it back.

If it was something too common it would probably make it too difficult for them to narrow down among the population.

I mean (just trying to think of examples here) - could it be something like a customized license plate, the fact that it was a government vehicle of some kind etc.
that would be interesting,wouldn't it? good thought.

My guess is that the wife has been focused on raising her daughter and hoping that LE will solve her husband's case. I feel so bad for her, for both of them. This is a very difficult segment for me to watch, particularly when she talks about how heartbreaking it is that her daughter will only know Matt through videos.

SheRaa, I agree about the crime being at a very strange hour for a hit. I think it could be mistaken identity and someone was after someone else who unfortunately might have resembled Matt from behind. If it was a crime of anger rather than a hit, I could see the person shooting quickly without verifying that they had the right target; same with a hitman who would want to do his job and get out of the crowded lot ASAP.

that would be interesting,wouldn't it? good thought.

Reading over some webpages it is noted that the vehicle was a Black & White Ford Explorer. That combination sounds strangely familiar across a vast number of jurisdictions...

http://policecararchives.org/examples/chmak9.jpg

Reading over some webpages it is noted that the vehicle was a Black & White Ford Explorer. That combination sounds strangely familiar across a vast number of jurisdictions...

http://policecararchives.org/examples/chmak9.jpg

I thought they said the vehicle was not white, black, dark green or dark blue?

I thought they said the vehicle was not white, black, dark green or dark blue?

Yeah, the only definitive, consistent thing I've read is that the Explorer had "distinctive black trim" on the lower panels.

My guess is that the wife has been focused on raising her daughter and hoping that LE will solve her husband's case. I feel so bad for her, for both of them. This is a very difficult segment for me to watch, particularly when she talks about how heartbreaking it is that her daughter will only know Matt through videos.

Matt's baby girl Danielle will be turning 20 this summer. His wife Denise never remarried and she works as a nurse. They both live in Rehoboth, Massachusetts. I couldn't find a facebook page for either of them.

Wasn't it a 2 door Sport model (I believe ALL Ford Explorer Sports were two door)

By saying the vehicle had distinctive black trim on the lower panels, are they talking about big ground effects, or running boards, or moldings, or a trim package with special paint details?

I'm looking at google images of a lot of explorers from that time period and they all have some kind of molding/trim around the bottom, but I wouldn't call it "distinctive".

Here are a couple that look just a bit different from the standard looking trim.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=747&stc=1&d=10160000454

http://www.theautochannel.com/vehicles/new/reviews/wk9336.1-lg.jpg

By saying the vehicle had distinctive black trim on the lower panels, are they talking about big ground effects, or running boards, or moldings, or a trim package with special paint details?

I'm looking at google images of a lot of explorers from that time period and they all have some kind of molding/trim around the bottom, but I wouldn't call it "distinctive".

Here are a couple that look just a bit different from the standard looking trim.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=747&stc=1&d=10160000454

http://www.theautochannel.com/vehicles/new/reviews/wk9336.1-lg.jpg

After becoming aware of the "distinctive trim", I always envisioned it as looking like the bottom picture personally. I remember seeing that dark (sometimes it was beige like in the picture) lower paneling quite often on those early to mid-90s Ford Explorers. A boyfriend I had in high school drove a '94 Ford Explorer Sport; it was red with beige trim and it actually stood out like a sore thumb. The color combination was sort of unusual.

this case is still sad as we don't know (for sure) if Matt was the intended target or not. I do think the guy who did this was a hitman cashing in on some hit. if matt was the intended hit or not is unknown.

this case is still sad as we don't know (for sure) if Matt was the intended target or not. I do think the guy who did this was a hitman cashing in on some hit. if matt was the intended hit or not is unknown.

I tend to think that Matt was the intended victim, by hitman or not by hitman. Reason being is if he was a mistaken hit by a dumb hitman, I would think the police woulod have cross referenced any other murders for men similar looking in both appearance and ethnicity to Matt as well as those who drive his vehicle or similar vehicles and anyone that worked in any building close to him.

I tend to think that Matt was the intended victim, by hitman or not by hitman. Reason being is if he was a mistaken hit by a dumb hitman, I would think the police woulod have cross referenced any other murders for men similar looking in both appearance and ethnicity to Matt as well as those who drive his vehicle or similar vehicles and anyone that worked in any building close to him.

That is, of course, provided that the police were doing their jobs well and were dedicated to solving the case.

If UM has taught us anything over the years, it is that there really was some seriously poor policework undertaken in quite a number of cases.

I tend to think that Matt was the intended victim, by hitman or not by hitman. Reason being is if he was a mistaken hit by a dumb hitman, I would think the police woulod have cross referenced any other murders for men similar looking in both appearance and ethnicity to Matt as well as those who drive his vehicle or similar vehicles and anyone that worked in any building close to him.
true, but maybe they have and still haven't found anything and the hitman didn't go after the intended target after he made the mistake. whatever the case, until the killer is caught, that question will be asked. some will say maybe he was the target, some will say he wasn't. as for me, I seriously don't know and that's what's sad about it. it's a huge mystery as I don't even know if the killer was after him or someone else.

I remember this being one of the most mysterious UM cases ever, because why would someone want to kill an apparently squeaky-clean guy like Matt?

I have several questions about this one:

1. There has to be some reason why they showed a re-creation of the videotape instead of the actual surveillance tape. I am dying to know what that difference is!

2. In the UM segment, Matt's wife says that they were excited about the new job because "it was going to be us making decisions, not the military." Obviously that could be just a totally innocent comment, but I wonder if maybe (in Robert Stack voice) there was something more to that statement?

3. If we accept the "bumbling hit man" theory and conclude it was a mistaken hit, how the did the hit man/men know NOT to kill the driver of the first white car?

4. If we assume it was a non-mistaken hit and the hit man got the right target, how would the hit man have known about the rental car Matt was driving? Were a lot of people in Matt's life privy to that information? (If my friend or family member got a job in another state, I doubt I'd know what type of rental car they'd been given unless they specifically emphasized it in conversation for some reason.)as far as your #2 theory I see nothing with that statement. Just about everyone that leaves the military says that same exact phrase for one reason or another. It mostly has to do with staying in one place.

My thoughts on this are the same. Way was the other vehicle(probe) never investigated or if it was why was that info not mentioned. This case just doesn't make a lot of sense with the lack of information that was presented.

A few ideas to bounce around......

So Matt was a decorated soldier. Was he in charge of his own unit? Could he possibly have made a decision during the war that resulted in someone getting hurt/killed? Did he report something that led to a soldier being dishonorably discharged?

Could this have been orchestrated by an angry ex of his or his wife's? They were in such a good place together, with a new baby and a new job. Could someone have discovered this and been overcome with jealousy?

This was a professional killing. Whether he was the intended victim or not, I'm not sure but it was definitely a professional killing. It broad daylight a quick and swift shot to the head. Nobody also witnessed the actual murder. These guys knew what they were doing. Remember the case on UM about the Roger Wheeler case (Jai Alai owner) who was murdered in his country club parking lot in broad daylight? That was a hit. Im not ruling out anything but it was a professional job or done by somebody who knew what they were doing. Its so sad it hasn't been solved

A few ideas to bounce around......

So Matt was a decorated soldier. Was he in charge of his own unit? Could he possibly have made a decision during the war that resulted in someone getting hurt/killed? Did he report something that led to a soldier being dishonorably discharged?

Could this have been orchestrated by an angry ex of his or his wife's? They were in such a good place together, with a new baby and a new job. Could someone have discovered this and been overcome with jealousy?
You know I'd need to watch this again haven't seen it in a while. But I don't get the sense that he was in the army very long(perhaps just one term). For the air force(my background) that's not long enough to be in charge of a unit. As well there is more than one person involved for someone to get a dishonorable discharge although Matt could have been directly involved I guess. That didn't happen in matts case if it did at the very least UM probably would have caught that as a motive. This was a true mystery in the sense that no one wanted him dead. The only angle that I see possible is that a new adversary existed within his new company or perhaps someone that wanted his position. It just doesn't make any sense. Mistaken identity fits most.

Matt Flores got out of the Army as a first lieutenant. Chances are extremely good he commanded a platoon at some point during his four years of service. In the Army, platoon leader is often a brand-new second lieutenant's very first position once they graduate the basic course.