Let's have some fun! UM has a good record with segments including interviewees that are being blamed for their spouse's death or disappearance. Which one is the guiltiest in your opinion?

I excluded people who admitted to be involved or were proven to be (ex. Elizabeth Oritz, Michael Haim)

Hard to truly pick one, as so many were tied. Went with Page. Page and Rizzo have to be at the very top for me.

This is of course tough lol because I think many of these people are guilty.

But I went with Judy Groezinger because her alibi story is demonstratively untrue. Al Henderson's story is also untrue but Judy's proven lie puts her at the crime scene.

This is of course tough lol because I think many of these people are guilty.

But I went with Judy Groezinger because her alibi story is demonstratively untrue. Al Henderson's story is also untrue but Judy's proven lie puts her at the crime scene.

I ALMOST voted for Judy but I voted for Paul Pollis. I can't think of one good theory of her disappearing other than him causing it.

Good idea for a thread topic. This was a tough one. Right off the bat, I think it is possible that the following were/are innocent or not involved in their spouses disappearances:

-Al Henderson
-Don Sherman
-Paul Pollis
-Alfredo Newball

Everyone else on this list is guilty. Mark Nichols, Jim Harrison, Bob Hall, Steve Page, Leonard Rizzo, and Stephen Marfeo I believe murdered their spouses in a rage after a fight. I think Judy Groezinger helped kill her husband Mark so she could be with her lover. I think Larry Race concocted what he believed to be a masterful way to kill his wife so he could live the life of a playboy. That leaves Jule Caylor. That's who I voted for. Because I cannot come up with a rational reason as to why he (probably) killed Dottie and hid her body. He was putting out ads about renting the house where Dottie lived before she went missing. So his was clearly premeditated. And just his overall demeanor in the segment was chilling. At least everyone else on this list pretended to be innocent.

I would have to vote for Kristi Nichols' husband. If he really had something to do with her disappearance, then really gets under my skin when he asks her on camera to call.

I vote Steve Page. He was found financially liable for her death in civil court. Not the same burden of proof as a criminal conviction but it's the only one (that I know of) where a jury found that he killed his spouse

I voted for Mark Nichols.

Isn't this the guy who admitted to throwing his wife but she landed wrong and injured her hand/finger?

I'm still curious as to why he wasn't charged with domestic abuse based on his own words.

Random Thoughts

Mark Nichols - I mean I think he did it but there is no evidence and they did find a note written by Kristi saying she was going to leave.

Larry Race - IDK the idea that he donned scuba gear and swam underwater and stabbed the raft and back again seems rather James Bond ish -- I can't believe that didn't put reasonable doubt in juror's minds.

Rene Perez - I think it's just as believable that his side action killed his wife and he wasn't aware of it or until after.

Stephen Marfeo exists beyond a simple guilty-not guilty binary.

He is a known murderer.

Shouldn't Rene Perez be listed as Alfredo Newball?

Other than that, great poll and a really tough pick. I did Stephen Marfeo, but if I could vote twice, Jim Harrison would get my other vote.

I had to think about it for a minute but Jule Caylor is my winner. He's simultaneously one of the most contemptible yet laughable interviewees in the entire series, and go figure he was in the very first Stack episode. That he could go on national television and actually carry himself with that "don't give a &*%^" attitude for the entire segment is almost admirable in a perverse sense if the case weren't so tragic.
And all of that said, I still think there's a slim chance Dottie could have just walked away from that life.
Al Henderson, Larry Race and Alfredo Newball weren't even considerations for me in this poll. And it's been so many years since I've seen the Groezinger case, thanks to its exclusion from FilmRise, that I couldn't vote for her.

I doubt Jule Caylor has ever won anything in his life...but he's winning this poll right now.

It’s a hard decision between Jule Caylor and Paul Pollis

The only reason I didn't vote for Paul Pollis is part of me actually felt sorry for him having to deal with that mother-in-law.

Jim Harrison I think......

Rob Page, Pam Page’s husband, definitely should be mentioned…

It's very hard to vote against some of the others like Marfeo, Pollis, and Nichols(sounds like an evil law firm), but I'm the lone voter for Leonard Rizzo. he is one of the most obvious guilty spouses featured from the show. there's strong evidence he was isolating and beating his wife Monika Rizzo as was substantiated by her workplace and a police officer. he admitted to violently beating up his house in the UM segment. there were bones in his backyard that were later ID'd as Monika's bones. someone called police to tip them off that he killed Monika. Leonard went on to beat another woman and threatened to kill her and chop her into pieces. he was shot by police in a standoff, yet he was never charged for Monika's murder.

there were bones in his backyard that were later ID'd as Monika's bones. someone called police to tip them off that he killed Monika. Leonard went on to beat another woman and threatened to kill her and chop her into pieces. he was shot by police in a standoff, yet he was never charged for Monika's murder.

Kind of forgot about that case. But yes, how he wasn't charged is either malfeasance or incompetence on the part of the local police.

Kind of forgot about that case. But yes, how he wasn't charged is either malfeasance or incompetence on the part of the local police.
Yeah IDK... unlike some of the other suspected spouses who were violently abusive, her bones were in their backyard. it seems like there is more evidence that he actually did kill his wife compared to many of the others.

My UM knowledge is rusty as F but I'm wondering why Donnie Hansen didn't make the starting team there...

My UM knowledge is rusty as F but I'm wondering why Donnie Hansen didn't make the starting team there...

Probably because he isn't a spouse. But for guiltiest person poll, he is certainly up there.

My UM knowledge is rusty as F but I'm wondering why Donnie Hansen didn't make the starting team there...

Welcome back

Welcome back

Just here for my annual check up 🤪

Probably because he isn't a spouse. But for guiltiest person poll, he is certainly up there.

Yeah that would be why hey.

Does anyone else think that Judy Groezinger and Mark Nichols would make a power couple? Both have that slow drawl to their voices and 'prairie' styles that I'm sure would drive each other crazy. :eyes:

Not sure Mark is Judy's type anymore ... or maybe ever ... but point taken!

Does anyone else think that Judy Groezinger and Mark Nichols would make a power couple? Both have that slow drawl to their voices and 'prairie' styles that I'm sure would drive each other crazy. :eyes:

Judy Groezinger would probably be more attracted to Ann Sigmin.

Judy Groezinger would probably be more attracted to Ann Sigmin.

who was not attracted to Ann sigmin, or at least the actress version?

who was not attracted to Ann sigmin, or at least the actress version?

That shed scene tho...:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:

Judy Groezinger would probably be more attracted to Ann Sigmin.

:rotflmao:

That shed scene tho...:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:

Haha I would have been worshiping along side her. And then see where it all went from there.

I said Leonard Rizzo just simply because he had the bones of his wife buried in his backyard. I figure Marfeo may not count on this poll because it was more or less proven he did it. The rest have some doubts. Paul Pollis doesn't strike me as bright, but there isn't a shred of evidence that he and Charlotte were having problems nor is there evidence a crime was ever committed. Him being a weird guy doesn't help, but he was half the size of his wife, I just don't see him carrying out something like that and being smart enough to get away with it. A lot of the segment is Charlotte's family jumping to a lot of conclusions that would drive me nuts as well if I were him. At least with Jule Caylor there is some circumstantial evidence that he did it. Although there is a chance Dottie fled for a new life.

Some of the others, Steve Page, well, the guy had an Oscar nominated film (or Oscar winning film?) that had some similarities to his case. He'd be awfully stupid to kill his wife THAT close to their home though if he was going to make it look like an accident in her car. Very much could be him though, I certainly don't think he was a saint.

Larry Race I would say probably could never get a fair trial based on the smearing of his adultery. I honestly have some doubts about that. I mean, they were 1 mile away from shore, that's not far. I know the water in May would still be frigid in Minnesota on Lake Superior, but he's supposedly planning a murder where there are still witnesses? Also, what happens if Debbie survives and she had seen him apparently take a knife to the life raft? All I can say is that Larry took a huge risk on his own life and also with her life that she could have survived. And he notified the authorities right away and they started a search. I think he was thrown in jail based purely on circumstantial evidence.

I said Leonard Rizzo just simply because he had the bones of his wife buried in his backyard. I figure Marfeo may not count on this poll because it was more or less proven he did it. The rest have some doubts. Paul Pollis doesn't strike me as bright, but there isn't a shred of evidence that he and Charlotte were having problems nor is there evidence a crime was ever committed. Him being a weird guy doesn't help, but he was half the size of his wife, I just don't see him carrying out something like that and being smart enough to get away with it. A lot of the segment is Charlotte's family jumping to a lot of conclusions that would drive me nuts as well if I were him. At least with Jule Caylor there is some circumstantial evidence that he did it. Although there is a chance Dottie fled for a new life.

Some of the others, Steve Page, well, the guy had an Oscar nominated film (or Oscar winning film?) that had some similarities to his case. He'd be awfully stupid to kill his wife THAT close to their home though if he was going to make it look like an accident in her car. Very much could be him though, I certainly don't think he was a saint.

Larry Race I would say probably could never get a fair trial based on the smearing of his adultery. I honestly have some doubts about that. I mean, they were 1 mile away from shore, that's not far. I know the water in May would still be frigid in Minnesota on Lake Superior, but he's supposedly planning a murder where there are still witnesses? Also, what happens if Debbie survives and she had seen him apparently take a knife to the life raft? All I can say is that Larry took a huge risk on his own life and also with her life that she could have survived. And he notified the authorities right away and they started a search. I think he was thrown in jail based purely on circumstantial evidence.

We have no clue if he and Charlotte had issues. I believe her mom brought up several issues they had after the fact (could be rose colored glasses though). The question still remains: who had motive to kill Charlotte? Who could dispose of her large body with no trace of her being found?

Tim McLure. If he's not guilty he's about the most unlucky person ever. Even his mullet thinks he's guilty

Tim McLure. If he's not guilty he's about the most unlucky person ever. Even his mullet thinks he's guilty

There are so many holes with Tim, such as how could someone not notice a guy 6'6" gambling well into the night, especially with that hair at the time, as he said he was doing. But by all accounts he loved his mother, and got along well with her. I honestly think there is the possibility she was killed just purely for robbery reasons and Tim was just in the wrong place at the wrong time guilt-wise. I will admit I didn't like how he said he didn't go into the one parking lot his mother ended up being in, but again, if he's guilty he is easily the stupidest murderer on UM, because there is absolutely no reason why he needed to say that. This is why I tend to think - at times - that he is just doesn't have a lot of brains and is innocent. How on earth can a guy like that get away with murder?

We have no clue if he and Charlotte had issues. I believe her mom brought up several issues they had after the fact (could be rose colored glasses though). The question still remains: who had motive to kill Charlotte? Who could dispose of her large body with no trace of her being found?

Both good questions, and I don't know if there has ever been a good answer as to who would want her dead. Which is why the best answer for that is either it was a robbery and they were startled that she was there and decided to off her. Or she did run away. It happens with mothers sometimes, not often, but it does happen. I know we joke about it, but I would run away from her family too if I was her. Just by a show of hands though, how often does that actually turn out to be true when a person just disappears into thin air, there is suspicion of foul play, but the person just actually got up and left their family never to return? Is there a case where this has happened? Because that is awfully selfish even for the most self-serving people in the world.

I do have to wonder how do they get Charlotte's body out without anyone seeing it? Without her kids seeing it, without a neighbor, without blood dripping, etc. She had to weigh 300lbs. Paul is a skinny guy, his mother was ancient, and I don't know about the rest of his family but would you involve a lot of people in your family to help you dump a body of someone they loved as well, and could you get someone to do it? Think about it, everyone sees Charlotte on the Friday night before they all go to bed. That is agreed upon. That means the incident had to have happened in the night time if Paul is involved. The murder, accidental or not, the cover up, the dumping of the body which has never been found, and making it look like nothing happened at all and no evidence of a crime occurred. Because in the morning his kids wake up, he can't do all of this stuff when they are awake. And I highly doubt he would be able to do any of that dumping during the day with his kids at his side and in broad daylight.

So there is the possibility that he actually did do those errands during the day and Charlotte was still in bed and an intruder(s) walks in thinking no one is home and they stumble upon her. Maybe they know her, maybe she knows them, so they kill her. Either way, this whole case is puzzling. Like other husbands, Paul doesn't strike me as a rocket scientist, so if he did it I have to say the cops are fast asleep here.

This is of course tough lol because I think many of these people are guilty.

But I went with Judy Groezinger because her alibi story is demonstratively untrue. Al Henderson's story is also untrue but Judy's proven lie puts her at the crime scene.

Such a tough call, but I had to go with Judy. Just the fact that she was seen buying a gun with someone, fingerprint on the beer bottle, and the rampant rumors about her and her friend, who I think she's still with today, wow.

No issues w/ a friend moving in after a spouse dies, but when you put all the little pieces together, it fits a picture.

I should have voted for Bob Hall. Amazed that he has gotten zero votes.

I should have voted for Bob Hall. Amazed that he has gotten zero votes.

And yet strangely enough he was a guy who looked the most genuine and talked the kindest about his wife more than the others.

I will say this, I still don't know how it was possible time-wise for him to do it. So I've never been sold that he did it.

And yet strangely enough he was a guy who looked the most genuine and talked the kindest about his wife more than the others.

I will say this, I still don't know how it was possible time-wise for him to do it. So I've never been sold that he did it.

ugh I never once watched that segment and thought he could be innocent. a lot of these guiltiest spouse candidates come off the same for me.

ugh I never once watched that segment and thought he could be innocent. a lot of these guiltiest spouse candidates come off the same for me.

It isn't so much how you feel about him. For me with Bob I still wonder how it was even possible to do what he did in the timeframe that it would have been done. And then to just be lucky enough to stumble upon where his wife was? Even if he knew where she was, I just don't see it with the timeline

It isn't so much how you feel about him. For me with Bob I still wonder how it was even possible to do what he did in the timeframe that it would have been done. And then to just be lucky enough to stumble upon where his wife was? Even if he knew where she was, I just don't see it with the timeline

I will have to go back and watch this segment. I've seen it multiple times, but not in a while. I payed less attention to him in comparison to the other suspected guilty spouses in this poll. IIRC he was charged for the murder of his wife?

I will say this, I still don't know how it was possible time-wise for him to do it. So I've never been sold that he did it.

He had plenty of time to do it. Kay left the party at 8:00. Bob was dropped off at his home at 8:40-8:45. It was a 22 minute drive from the home to where Kay's body was found at 10:00. Bob made a phone call to his daughter at 9:47. There is a lot of information (https://www.anylaw.com/case/hall-v-commonwealth/court-of-appeals-of-virginia/03-10-1992/r8w8YWYBTlTomsSBL-94) that was left out of the segment to paint Bob Hall in a much lighter light.

I will have to go back and watch this segment. I've seen it multiple times, but not in a while. I payed less attention to him in comparison to the other suspected guilty spouses in this poll. IIRC he was charged for the murder of his wife?

He was, yes.

He had plenty of time to do it. Kay left the party at 8:00. Bob was dropped off at his home at 8:40-8:45. It was a 22 minute drive from the home to where Kay's body was found at 10:00. Bob made a phone call to his daughter at 9:47. There is a lot of information (https://www.anylaw.com/case/hall-v-commonwealth/court-of-appeals-of-virginia/03-10-1992/r8w8YWYBTlTomsSBL-94) that was left out of the segment to paint Bob Hall in a much lighter light.

Even in the evidence it is asked how he would have even known where to find his wife. Man, that is a tight timeframe. Everything would have had to be rolled out in a red carpet for Hall to commit that crime.

I guess I am in the minority on this one. Not that I think he didn't do it, but I am not sold on it. Same thing I feel with Paul Pollis. I don't like him in the interview even though he is as calm as can be. But there is no evidence a crime was committed. No blood trail, no witnesses, just a neighbor that saw him looking at her - in broad daylight - in his own driveway as she drove by. There is a paper trail when you are dragging a 300lbs. body away. Night time or not. Even his "clean house" could have been investigated with a fluorescent light that has blood show up even after it is cleaned up. I get why he was never charged. You want to find something on him but you can't.

Even in the evidence it is asked how he would have even known where to find his wife. Man, that is a tight timeframe. Everything would have had to be rolled out in a red carpet for Hall to commit that crime.

The guy admitted to an investigator that he killed her and wanted to know if he could collect on his insurance.

Later in the conversation, Hall told Riley that if Riley "really wanted to make it tempting as hell to me," he should call Hall's attorney to inquire if Hall could still collect under the uninsured motorist provisions of his automobile insurance if he had accidentally killed his wife.

The guy admitted to an investigator that he killed her and wanted to know if he could collect on his insurance.

Didn't know that. Interesting.