i never understood why the second vivian was on the frwh prince-the show went down hill from there-does anyone know why the 1st vivian left?

I don't know why the first Vivian left the show but i saw her on a recent Kool Aid commercial with gray hair. I also saw her on a episode of Jamie Foxx show once as a casting director who was coming on to Jamie. The 2nd Vivian was boring. She's married to Tim Reid in real life. Tim Reid played on WKRP In Cincinnati.

Originally posted by SOLOMON
i never understood why the second vivian was on the frwh prince-the show went down hill from there-does anyone know why the 1st vivian left?

i dunno why she left, but the second one didn't do it for me either. vivian #1 had "it". :(

I remember hearing that the first Vivian (Janet Hubert-Whitten) didn't get along with Will Smith. I don't know the exact reason why she left the series but I think that had something to do with it.

It says on IMDB that the first Vivian actress was preganant and fired from the show.

I think the 2nd Vivian was good, the first one over acted at times.

Originally posted by JethroSimpson
It says on IMDB that the first Vivian actress was preganant and fired from the show.

I think the 2nd Vivian was good, the first one over acted at times.

The second vivian character was goofy which is unclear because the first vivian was no where near goofy. The second vivian was almost like sinclair from living single-who was also goofy

I don't know. But I always though the second one better complemented James Avery. When the kids got in trouble the second kept her compotal more than the first one. And Phillip and Vivian did a good cop bad cop the last three seasons. I don't know which one is better. I think it is mote because all of the other characters exept for Nicky was funnier than either Vivian.

But the second one was a better complement to James Avery in my opinion.

Originally posted by tvje
I don't know. But I always though the second one better complemented James Avery. When the kids got in trouble the second kept her compotal more than the first one. And Phillip and Vivian did a good cop bad cop the last three seasons. I don't know which one is better. I think it is mote because all of the other characters exept for Nicky was funnier than either Vivian.

But the second one was a better complement to James Avery in my opinion.

I still feel that the second vivian was a little to goofy to be playing the mother role-the first vivian was not goofy at all.

One of the things I've noticed in some episodes with the first vivivan is they when her sisters would appear they would give them long scenes to do on there own and I don't think that worked.

They stopped doing that with the second one.

She was good to me. I liked Janet but I like Dahpne Maxwell Reid. It's not easy to take over the role that another actor has established, and Daphne did not try to duplicate Janet's version
but had a unique style of her own. When I think of Aunt Vivian, I see Ms. Reid.
---------------------
The Cookie
Carlton: What do you say to an Oreo?
Will: I say "What's up, Carlton?"

I don't know if I entirely believe that Janet was fired because she was pregnant. If that was true they probably could have let her go immediately even if she was under contract. (because maybe becoming pregnant broke the contract) But she remained on and they wrote in the story of Nicky. Now, if they did fire her because of the pregnancy but let her stay until her contract ran out or something maybe that makes sense. But by then the "damage" was done. Nicky was written in and she wasn't pregnant anymore. So why let her go then? I think there was more to this than meets the eye. I imagine it was ultimately problems between her and Will. (Pregnancy might just have happened to be one of the problems.)

That aside, my vote goes for Janet Hubert without a doubt. I thought #2 stunk in the role. I probably would not have liked anyone taking Janet's place, but couldn't they have found someone more sutible? With the change of Vivian, there was a personality change, a big one. The whole time watching #2, I felt I was watching Phil's new wife because he got divorced to the REAL Vivian when the viewers weren't looking.

Originally posted by Cashodeen
The whole time watching #2, I felt I was watching Phil's new wife because he got divorced to the REAL Vivian when the viewers weren't looking.

lol, i never thought of it that way, but it fits better than just easing her in the role like no one would notice.

I liked the second one better.

Originally posted by Nirvana
I liked the second one better.

I like the second one also. No matter what is said, I don't think the shoe went downhill because of her. I mean the show had both actresses do role role for 3 years each. My favorite eps are with Daphne Maxwell-Reid.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by tvje
I don't know. But I always though the second one better complemented James Avery. When the kids got in trouble the second kept her compotal more than the first one. And Phillip and Vivian did a good cop bad cop the last three seasons. I don't know which one is better. I think it is mote because all of the other characters exept for Nicky was funnier than either Vivian.

But the second one was a better complement to James Avery in my opinion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agreee with what you are saying.quote:

How come the first mother was sort of a tough mother who stood her ground and was very firm with a big mouth, I mean who knew how to use her mouth to get what she wanted. The scond mother was more quiet, was not touch did not stand her ground.

Why did they make both mother have completely different personalities?

I liked the first one better even though Daphne didn't do a BAD job, I like Janet better. She did seem like Uncle Phil's second wife. I sure would like the full story about what happen with Janet! I heard that she was fired because she wanted too spend more time with her baby and there was a rift between her and Will.

This is sort of off topic, but her husband Tim Reid is a very good actor. Or as most people call him Vineous flytrap. He has been good in almost everything he's done from the Richard Pryer show to Sister Sister and everything in between.

Tim Reid also did a short lived sitcom called Franks Place and Sister Sister, with Jackee and the twin girls. Tia and Tamera Mowry.

Tim Reid

Frank's Place - Story
Frank's Place - Executive Producer
Linc's - Director
Linc's - Executive Producer
Linc's - Creator
Samurai Pizza Cats - Writer
Samurai Pizza Cats - First Assistant Director (Voice Director)
The Richard Pryor Show - Writer
WKRP in Cincinnati - Writer
WKRP in Cincinnati - Story

Movie Credits

About Sarah - Executive Producer
Asunder - Director
Asunder - Producer
Blue Moon - Executive Producer
Emerald City of OZ - Writer
Emerald City of OZ - Director
For Real - Writer
For Real - Director
Frank's Place - Executive Producer
Marvelous Land of Oz - Writer
Marvelous Land of Oz - Director
Once Apon A TIme... When We Were Coloured - Director
Once Apon A TIme... When We Were Coloured - Producer
Ozma of Oz - Writer
Ozma of Oz - Director
Spirt Lost - Producer
Wizard of Oz - Writer
Wizard of Oz - Director
Wonderful Wizard of Oz - Director


Acting Appearances

Starring Roles
Sister, Sister (1994) - Ray Campbell
Snoops (1989) (1989) - Chance Dennis
Frank's Place (1987) - Frank Parrish
CBS Summer Playhouse (1987) - Himself/Host
Teachers Only (1982) - Michael Horne (1983)
Simon and Simon (1981) - Downtown Brown
WKRP in Cincinnati (1978) - Gordon "Venus Flytrap" Sims
The Marilyn McCoo and Billy Davis, Jr. Show (1977) - Regular
Easy Does It Starring Frankie Avalon (1976) - Himself

Guest Starring Roles

Touched by an Angel - Buddy Baker - Last Call (1997)
Highlander - Bennett - Eyewitness (1993)
Highlander - Bennet - See No Evil (1992)
Highlander - Bennett - Revenge is Sweet (1992)
Perry Mason - Jack Barnett - The Case of the Silenced Singer (1990)
Late Night With David Letterman - Guest - Show #1227 (1989)
Late Night With David Letterman - Guest - Show #1082 (1989)
Late Night With David Letterman - Guest - Show #0994 (1988)
Matlock - Danny Miller - The Court Martial (2) (1987)
Matlock - Danny Miller - The Court Martial (1) (1987)
Soul Train - Guest - Jody Watley/ Jeff Lorber featuring Karyn White and Michael Jeffries (1986)
Battle of the Network Stars - CBS Team - Special #17 (1984)
Just Men! - Himself - Week 8 (1983)
Just Men! - Himself - Week 1 (1983)
Benson - Russell, Benson's Brother - Thy Brother's Keeper (1982)
Battle of the Network Stars - CBS Team - Special #11 (1981)
Battle of the Network Stars - CBS Team - Special #10 (1981)
Battle of the Network Stars - CBS Team - Special #5 (1978)
Maude - Policeman - Maude's Christmas Surprise (1977)
What's Happening!! - Dr. Claymore - It's All in Your Head (1977)
Fernwood 2Night - Matthew Johnson - Sex Therapy (1977)
Rhoda - Kitchen Helper - Guess Who I Saw Today (1976)
That's My Mama - Minister - Clifton's Persuasion (1974)

Movie/Mini-Series/Special Roles

You Wish (2003) - Larry
For Real (2002) -
Inside TV Land: African Americans In Television (2002) - Himself
Inside TV Land: African Americans In Television (2002) - Himself
Alley Cats Strike (2000) - Mayor McLemore
Intimate Portrait: Pam Grier (1999) - Himself
Race to Freedom: The Underground Railroad (1994) - Frederick Douglass
Mo' Funny: Black Comedy in America (1993) - (archive footage)
Say A Little Prayer (1993) - Thug
Mastergate (1992) - Chip Chatworth
You Must Remember This (1992) - Joe
It (1990) - Micheal
The Fourth War (1990) - Lt Col. Clark
Perry Mason: The Case of the Silenced Singer (1990) - Jack Barnett
Stephen King's It (1990) - Mike Hanlon
Dead Bang (1989) - Chief Dixon
Frank's Place (1987) - Frank Parrish
Motown 25: Yesterday, Today, Forever (1983) - Gordon Sims
Little Lulu (1978) - Tillson
Simon Simon (1970) - Downtown Brown
You Can't Take it With You (1970) (1970) - Donald

I know about Frank's Place, and I did mention Sister Sister (played the anit Vinus on that show) That is what I meant by everything in between.

Wow Hughpuppy, did you type all that?:D


Well, I liked both Vivians but it's true that the first Vivian said what was on her mind and she was very very funny.

I was very confused with the second Vivian which the show expected we should accept no questions asked. I liked her to because I loved her clothes and shes beautiful. I didn't know she was married to Tim Reid but he is a handsome guy. What an attractive couple.

I think if the second Vivian had been cast first, we would say shes the best but because we got used to the first one and she had much more personality and developed character, we think shes best. Does that make sense? Adios.
:wave:

Originally posted by Dilly
Wow Hughpuppy, did you type all that?:D


Well, I liked both Vivians but it's true that the first Vivian said what was on her mind and she was very very funny.

I was very confused with the second Vivian which the show expected we should accept no questions asked. I liked her to because I loved her clothes and shes beautiful. I didn't know she was married to Tim Reid but he is a handsome guy. What an attractive couple.

I think if the second Vivian had been cast first, we would say shes the best but because we got used to the first one and she had much more personality and developed character, we think shes best. Does that make sense? Adios.
:wave:




The second Vivian and Uncle Phil looked better as a couple.

The SECOND Vivian was very sophisticated and fit better with Uncle Phil but I would have liked her to do more scolding of those kids. They were acting up and doing some crazy stuff and she was too sweet. She did fit better with Hilary too as both dressed to the hilt.

The first Aunt Viv was definetely more memorable imo. She wasn't afraid to speak her mind unlike the second one. I have a question for the ones who said the second one looked better with Uncle Phil, do you feel this way because they were both light skin or because the second one actually made Uncle Phil look like he was in control most of the time since she never really said anything?

I personally thought Janet looked better with Uncle Phil because they seemed more like equals, plus when you look at the kids imo they looked more believeable with Janet as their mother. Sure Hilary was light, but she could have took after her father, but Ashley and Carlton were a little darker and could have took after their first mother. Also Janet fit in and held her own a lot better with the sisters when they came on the show, Daphne just didn't really mesh with them, imo.

Daphne just didn't make the character memorable, her portrayal wasn't funny and just boring. But I wouldn't say the show went downhill when Daphne came in cause they didn't focus on her too much to really notice, but overall I prefer the early seasons because they were funnier, but I did like a lot of episodes from the later seasons, except the last season that one was kind of boring.

The first Aunt Viv was definetely more memorable imo. She wasn't afraid to speak her mind unlike the second one. I have a question for the ones who said the second one looked better with Uncle Phil, do you feel this way because they were both light skin or because the second one actually made Uncle Phil look like he was in control most of the time since she never really said anything?

I personally thought Janet looked better with Uncle Phil because they seemed more like equals, plus when you look at the kids imo they looked more believeable with Janet as their mother. Sure Hilary was light, but she could have took after her father, but Ashley and Carlton were a little darker and could have took after their first mother. Also Janet fit in and held her own a lot better with the sisters when they came on the show, Daphne just didn't really mesh with them, imo.

Daphne just didn't make the character memorable, her portrayal wasn't funny and just boring. But I wouldn't say the show went downhill when Daphne came in cause they didn't focus on her too much to really notice, but overall I prefer the early seasons because they were funnier, but I did like a lot of episodes from the later seasons, except the last season that one was kind of boring.

They looked nothing alike and they're personalities were completely different...I think they should've just found someone at least similar to the first Viv. I like the first one better!

I liked the first Aunt Vivian better. She seemed more real to me. She was also more memorable in her acting. I think she connected more with the kids and Uncle Phil better. The second Aunt Vivian was okay. She seemed to whined about alot of things, but the first Aunt Vivian was more stern she took charge.

I also heard that the first Aunt Vivian left the show because of her pregnancy.

Also I would like to add that in the early seasons they made it clear that Aunt Viv was a college professor. In the later seasons with Daphne I'm not sure if she was still a professor or not, but with the dramatic character personality change Daphne's version sure didn't seem like she was the college professor type.

Also it seemed that Phil and Viv were more romantic with each other in the earlier seasons with Janet. In the later ones I don't recall too many scenes with them getting romantic with each other, I guess they figured out that Phil had more chemistry with Janet than he did with Daphne.

And to hopefully end my rant I'm gonna agree with what someone said on jumptheshark.com, Janet was funny and brought personality to the role of Aunt Viv and Daphne just came in said her lines and got the hell out of the studio.

Originally posted by danithang
Also I would like to add that in the early seasons they made it clear that Aunt Viv was a college professor. In the later seasons with Daphne I'm not sure if she was still a professor or not, but with the dramatic character personality change Daphne's version sure didn't seem like she was the college professor type.

Also it seemed that Phil and Viv were more romantic with each other in the earlier seasons with Janet. In the later ones I don't recall too many scenes with them getting romantic with each other, I guess they figured out that Phil had more chemistry with Janet than he did with Daphne.

And to hopefully end my rant I'm gonna agree with what someone said on jumptheshark.com, Janet was funny and brought personality to the role of Aunt Viv and Daphne just came in said her lines and got the hell out of the studio.


The second vivan was a major goofball

Originally posted by TVShow Analyzer
The second vivan was a major goofball

Analyzer, can you explain why you think she was a goofball, cause I can see if you said she was dull and boring, but I don't understand why you think she was a goofball. Was it because she seemed so out of place with the cast or what?

Originally posted by danithang
Analyzer, can you explain why you think she was a goofball, cause I can see if you said she was dull and boring, but I don't understand why you think she was a goofball. Was it because she seemed so out of place with the cast or what?


When comparing her to the first vivian, she comes off as goofy

I didn't like the second Vivian at all.

Reid didn't do a bad job but Janet was much better, IMO

The problem I think is that writers changed the "Vivian" character along with the recasting. They should have left it alone and found someone like Sheryl Lee Ralph to take over as Vivian. I think she was available at the time. Moesha debuted in '96. Right when Fresh Prince ended.

Anyway Sheryl has similar looks to Janet and I think it would have made an easier transition. Rather then getting Reid who looked and acted entirely different than the original Vivian.

I think Janet probably left because they changed the Vivian character. I don't blame her because the original Vivan seemed more no-nonsense, independent woman. Vivan #2 was a little quieter.

Just my two cents

I didn't mind the change in actresses of Vivian. I felt she wasn't a really major character on the show anyway.

Originally posted by HwTH212
I didn't mind the change in actresses of Vivian. I felt she wasn't a really major character on the show anyway.

I wish they had used her more. She had the look for being a matriarch of the family, she looked the part for being the Judge's wife and had the attitude to keep the family in check. She was stern. I loved scenes where she'd be mad at Phillip. They played off each other quite well.

-----------------------------------------------

Phil invites President Regan to his dinner party.

Phillip: I wonder if he will show.
Vivian #1: Phillip, you sent the man 8 invitations and he hasn't responded yet. When are you gonna take a hint?
Phillip: Mabye I should call-
Vivian#1: No, Phillip, no! I don't them here.'
Phillip: Why Not?
Vivian #1: Because he'll bring her !

I'm one person who doesn't enjoy main characters being replaced, and this one is no exception. My sister and I liked the first Vivian a lot better. She seemed more full of life. The second one was rather bland and just acted like she was always moody.

Originally posted by swedeace
I'm one person who doesn't enjoy main characters being replaced, and this one is no exception. My sister and I liked the first Vivian a lot better. She seemed more full of life. The second one was rather bland and just acted like she was always moody.


Don't forget she was GOOFY-lol

yeah, janet was very funny.

Remember when Will and Carlton were arrested, and went to the police station to get them? She was ready to throw down! She took off her earrings! :lol:

The second Viv wasn't funny.

I think they should have kept the same sceond vivian actress only named her different and should have done a big divorce angle because i dont think that was happing at that time on tv and they probally could have made it funny then when season 4 debutes they could say it has been a year since the last episode and now phil is engaged.

I think they should have kept the same sceond vivian actress only named her different and should have done a big divorce angle because i dont think that was happing at that time on tv and they probally could have made it funny then when season 4 debutes they could say it has been a year since the last episode and now phil is engaged.


I don't think that would have worked either because Daphne was still bland and unfunny. If they couldn't find anyone better than Daphne then they should have just written Aunt Viv out completely because it was almost like she wasn't there that much anyway in the later seasons. Since Aunt Viv was a college professor (at least Janet's version was, don't know about Daphne's version) they could have transferred her to another college and have them mention her from time to time or 'go see her' every once in a while. Cause in those later seasons the show seemed to be more about Will, Carlton, and Uncle Phil rather than the cast as a whole anyway.

The second Vivian was bad. I hate when they change the actors. It's so annoying. 'Nuff said.

I loved the second Vivian, but she got Jealous Way too much. :lol:

It was the way they wrote her! I think she could probably play a spunkier Vivian but they chose not to go that route. I do like her as JT's mother on Eve though.

Does anyone remember the episode where Will catches Ashley in a bedroom making out at a college party? Then Ashley runs away and they find her. Did you notice how calm the second viv seemed.

The first Viv would have ripped Ashley into a million peices for pulling that stunt. Just like she did when he had drugs in his locker and Carlton thought they were something else and took alot of them, she almost ripped Will a new behind.

The first one did fit the role better I think. She was a hard working mother, who at the same time kept her kids in line when they did something wrong and was very supportive when they did something good.

The second Viv seemed to act the same when the kids did something good and something bad

Does anyone remember the episode where Will catches Ashley in a bedroom making out at a college party? Then Ashley runs away and they find her. Did you notice how calm the second viv seemed.

The first Viv would have ripped Ashley into a million peices for pulling that stunt. Just like she did when he had drugs in his locker and Carlton thought they were something else and took alot of them, she almost ripped Will a new behind.

The first one did fit the role better I think. She was a hard working mother, who at the same time kept her kids in line when they did something wrong and was very supportive when they did something good.

The second Viv seemed to act the same when the kids did something good and something bad


I remember that episode.......Uncle Phil kept leaving the room and coming back to scold Ashely!:lol:

Yeah, no doubt, the second viv would tear her a new a--hole.

One of the things I've noticed in some episodes with the first vivivan is they when her sisters would appear they would give them long scenes to do on there own and I don't think that worked.

They stopped doing that with the second one.

I thought when Janet Hubert-Whitten was on the show I enjoyed the episodes with her sisters. They were funny together and the characters were more grounded. Those four women provided good comedy when they had scenes together. They looked like they could had been sisters in real life. I loved it when they entered the room and refer to each other as diva. My favorite episode was when they went to the snow for Christmas. They looked like they had a good time making that episode.

The episodes with the sisters when Daphene Maxwell Reid took the role as Vivian did not work very well. She seemed not to fit in.

yeah it would be better without second vivian