If you haven't watched the first episode of UM on Netflix, go watch it now. :)

Wow... There's a lot to unpack here. As someone said on another thread, this sounded like a pretty straightforward case at the beginning of the episode but it got really weird.

Here are the main three things that bother me:

1) Where did he "fall" from? I say that because I'm not convinced he did. I highly doubt it was from the roof of the Belvedere.
2) What does Porter Stansberry have to hide? Obviously, he knows a lot that he isn't saying. Just a brief Google search on this guy shows you he is a snake oil salesman and possible a complete crackpot. He's already been fined over a million dollars by the SEC for securities fraud.
3) The note... What's up with the note behind the computer? (That totally took me back to the $2 bill found in the underwear of Charles Morgan.)

So Rey left in a hurry after getting a call from the office of his employer, which is run by Porter Stansberry. That was the catalyst for him taking off so quickly, yet no one at the company seems to know a thing and they put out a gag order on talking to the police very quickly. Uh-huh...

The note to me is the biggest "WTH?" moment of this story. It was full sized paper shrunken down, folded, wrapped in plastic, and taped to the back of the computer. No way in hell that was a suicide note. You want a suicide note to be found... This was code for something (again, just like Charles Morgan). The problem is that it only seems to make sense to Rey, and didn't give any specific clues on what it was really about. So it must either be a memory jogger for him or passwords to a file, website, etc. that used a code that would help him unlock what he needed.The fact that it was folded up, wrapped in plastic, and taped tells us this wasn't something he referred to often, if ever. This was an insurance of some kind. Just super weird.

The other thing that bugs me is the hole in the roof. It is not very big, which says he was either coming straight down, or the scene is staged. I'm obviously not an expert on this, but you have to imagine if he was thrown off a building awake he would have been flailing around. If he was not conscious, I can't believe he would stay vertical to fall like that. I do think it's possible that if he fell vertically on purpose, he could go through the roof to make that narrow hole and that would explain why his shins were destroyed. But that is really hard to imagine.

The suicide angle is funny because we have seen other cases of verified suicide where the person left no clue or wasn't acting funny. No offense to Rey's brother, who is obviously torn up by this, but he said that Rey showed no signs of being depressed or suicidal. That doesn't need to be there, but also, he was obviously stressed about something the last week or two of his life. His brother probably didn't see that but Rey's wife sure did. He really seemed to love his wife, so if he did kill himself, I can't believe he wouldn't leave her a note of some kind. I'm 99% sure this was not a straight up suicide.

What a fascinating case. I'm glad they chose this one to be the first of the new UM on Netflix.

I just come here to say Rey is fine as hell! What a beautiful man he is/was.

So pleased with the first two cases in the storytelling. Anyway to your point; the friend not being interviewed was odd.

If you haven't watched the first episode of UM on Netflix, go watch it now. :)

Wow... There's a lot to unpack here. As someone said on another thread, this sounded like a pretty straightforward case at the beginning of the episode but it got really weird.

Here are the main three things that bother me:

1) Where did he "fall" from? I say that because I'm not convinced he did. I highly doubt it was from the roof of the Belvedere.
2) What does Porter Stansberry have to hide? Obviously, he knows a lot that he isn't saying. Just a brief Google search on this guy shows you he is a snake oil salesman and possible a complete crackpot. He's already been fined over a million dollars by the SEC for securities fraud.
3) The note... What's up with the note behind the computer? (That totally took me back to the $2 bill found in the underwear of Charles Morgan.)

So Rey left in a hurry after getting a call from the office of his employer, which is run by Porter Stansberry. That was the catalyst for him taking off so quickly, yet no one at the company seems to know a thing and they put out a gag order on talking to the police very quickly. Uh-huh...

The note to me is the biggest "WTH?" moment of this story. It was full sized paper shrunken down, folded, wrapped in plastic, and taped to the back of the computer. No way in hell that was a suicide note. You want a suicide note to be found... This was code for something (again, just like Charles Morgan). The problem is that it only seems to make sense to Rey, and didn't give any specific clues on what it was really about. So it must either be a memory jogger for him or passwords to a file, website, etc. that used a code that would help him unlock what he needed.The fact that it was folded up, wrapped in plastic, and taped tells us this wasn't something he referred to often, if ever. This was an insurance of some kind. Just super weird.

The other thing that bugs me is the hole in the roof. It is not very big, which says he was either coming straight down, or the scene is staged. I'm obviously not an expert on this, but you have to imagine if he was thrown off a building awake he would have been flailing around. If he was not conscious, I can't believe he would stay vertical to fall like that. I do think it's possible that if he fell vertically on purpose, he could go through the roof to make that narrow hole and that would explain why his shins were destroyed. But that is really hard to imagine.

The suicide angle is funny because we have seen other cases of verified suicide where the person left no clue or wasn't acting funny. No offense to Rey's brother, who is obviously torn up by this, but he said that Rey showed no signs of being depressed or suicidal. That doesn't need to be there, but also, he was obviously stressed about something the last week or two of his life. His brother probably didn't see that but Rey's wife sure did. He really seemed to love his wife, so if he did kill himself, I can't believe he wouldn't leave her a note of some kind. I'm 99% sure this was not a straight up suicide.

What a fascinating case. I'm glad they chose this one to be the first of the new UM on Netflix.


I have to finish working for the day before I delve into new UM, but I have to say it is *very* promising to see a good review from Todd Mueller right off the bat. I'll be back after I've watched!!

I loved it.

Robert Stack's image being in the opening gave me the feels. If I had to say anything as a negative, having only watched the one episode, the background music could stand to be creepier. If we get a Season 2 a new composer's needed.

On to Rey.

I don't believe it was a suicide. The financial angle and the Russian stock thing are massive red flags. I was disappointed they only started focusing on Porter Stansberry in the last 17 minutes of the whole hour. I'm sure there was more there. Like in the note, they don't give it close up attention, but if you pause it the note literally says "Porter Stansberry (if he didn’t do it himself)”



I feel a piece of the puzzle is missing with regard to the house guest. Everyone's coming in but she left? I'm not saying she's involved but I'm a bit confused by that whole scenario. It came off like they were "meh" to the whole missing person unfolding around them. Is it feasible though that something went on between those two that led to emotional turmoil and the call from Stansberry is a red herring? Yes. But this is also probably just an issue with the narrative in post production.

I tend to also wonder if the note was code. Who tapes their favorite movies to the back of a monitor like that? And with that weird line about Stansberry mentioned above in it?

If he got a phone call and then left why didn't they track the call to see who it was?

If he got a phone call and then left why didn't they track the call to see who it was?

They did. The call came from his work but they were unable to track down the specific extension.

I’m gonna have to give it another watch. I stayed up extra late to watch the first episode, so even while enjoying that, my mind isn’t the best while tired. But that being said, my inkling to start with was that this is just a suicide. But as the story unfolded, things got weird and I don’t think suicide is a possibility any longer in this case.

The note almost has to be a code of some sort. Or at the least it has some specific meaning other than either a suicide note or just Rey recording his thoughts. Nobody talks (or writes) like that in person or in just a note to keep around the house. I don’t know much about Free Masons, but my knee jerk reaction is that Rey left this as code of some kind. I think the Free Mason quotes might indicate where to begin finding the key to unlock this. Perhaps where the quote coming from (was it a poem or book? - sorry, I was getting sleepy while watching) might begin to unlock this. Such as the Declaration of Independence was supposedly the key to unlock the Beale treasure code. Just my initial thoughts there.

About the scene itself, I don’t know. I could see it being staged, or not. The phone and glasses aren’t necessarily indicating staged scene to me. If Rey jumped, I could see his impact into the roof causing enough impact to both knock the glasses and phone from his pockets and offset the impact on those items themselves enough that they landed where they did, apparently undamaged (hopefully I’m making sense there). Also, I would think anyone with half a brain staging the scene would take the opportunity to actually break those items before leaving them where they were if they were trying to make it look like suicide.

Also, the other thing about the scene is the access. Rey or his killer(s) would have had to get access somehow to be found where he was. If suicide, how did Rey gain access? If someone staged the scene, why not just throw him off a bridge or something? Or a building that could more conceivably be accessed? Could the idea have been to try and frame someone? In any case, the building has more significance to me in this case than just being either the tool used.

There are a lot of things to delve into on this case, but those things stuck out to me more than anything honestly.

I just finished this episode. The format has changed to more of a 48 Hours or Dateline but I just really enjoyed it and found it to be a really compelling mystery. Robert Stack is gone and the weekly episodic style of the OG with the call us if you can help, check back next week for updates and more is gone. You really can't go back to it. Some people have trouble slapping the UM name on an episode of 48 Hours...and i can understand that...but at least the show has some kind of present day extension. Either way, i think you'll find that this ep is a good mystery worth checking out.

1. I am inclined to believe this was a suicide.

There is little evidence at all - but certainly none to indicate he was thrown or pushed off the building. If it's hard to understand how he could have jumped off the building and landed where he did...then it is just as hard to understand how someone throwing or pushing him off could accomplish it.

The idea that someone would devise a plan to get him up there and then throw him off...in the face of so many buildings and windows seems unlikely to me.



2. I do think something is obviously up with his friend and employer. The call from them was the impetus for him leaving and eventually to his death. Now, one might say that they lawyered up because they were complicit in his death...but it's also plausible that they realized he was privy to damaging information about the company (it certainly sounds like they were up to some shady s*it) and they were hedging their bets in case the damaging information either led to him killing himself -- or would come out as a result of the investigation to his death.

3. The note taped to the back of the computer is VERY odd. I am not sure what to make of a lot of what is shown.

One one hand I feel like it is some type of easter egg he was hiding as part of some secret type game. Maybe in the secrecy style of the freemasons that he was reading about. I actually used to do the same thing when I was a kid..I would make a list of my favorite things and hide them in my house in order to find them much later and see if everything stayed the same or changed. Granted, I was a young kid and he was a grown adult, but it remind me of that.

On the other hand...the note does seem to be the thoughts of someone who is not all there.

From what they show of the actual note there are many weird things.

They show a shot of the many many people that he lists...and at the top it reads "...time and talent to this venture. Along with myself, these players should be made 5 years younger by the council..." Then after the names, at the bottom it reads "Porter Stansbury [if he didn't do it himself]"

There is also what appears to be the following:

"I'd also like to single out Keith Richards. You had a good run buddy. But What's done is done. The game is up. (something unreadable). It's time for some shut eye."

There are also weird phrases like that appear to read "Lastly, I expect..." and "...given the height of (some measurement)" and something that looks like "I suspect..." or "I expect..."

There is also a portion that is blurred out...i wonder what they didn't want to reveal?

I don't believe it was a suicide. The financial angle and the Russian stock thing are massive red flags. I was disappointed they only started focusing on Porter Stansberry in the last 17 minutes of the whole hour. I'm sure there was more there. Like in the note, they don't give it close up attention, but if you pause it the note literally says "Porter Stansberry (if he didn’t do it himself)”

Since Stansberry declined the show's invitation to be interviewed, I wonder if they couldn't really bring up the letter's accusations against him for legal reasons.

After reading the brief synopsis on Rey's case, I went into the segment thinking it was going to be another one of those murder vs. suicide cases from the old UM where the family simply couldn't or wouldn't accept that their relative had taken their life and were merely grasping at straws. This was definitely not the case here. Thanks to this new one-case format, we're given ample information about all the circumstances regarding Rey's death.
Actual documents are shown up close and nothing appears to be left out to push a narrative.

This was a murder. The note was some type of code, not a suicide letter. Although it seemed rambling and disjointed, there was still somewhat of a coherent flow to it. It didn't really read as the ramblings of someone with a severe mental illness who had lost control of their faculties.

Its a weird case. I am not going to definitively say its a suicide or a murder or an accident.

What is evident though is there is a HUGE chunk of information missing, and that gap prevents any kind of definitive finding.

And yes, it is highly suspicious that the friend hushed up. Very odd indeed. I understand 5th amendment rights, but by hushing up, he only brought more attention to himself rather than cooperating.

1. I am inclined to believe this was a suicide.

There is little evidence at all - but certainly none to indicate he was thrown or pushed off the building. If it's hard to understand how he could have jumped off the building and landed where he did...then it is just as hard to understand how someone throwing or pushing him off could accomplish it.

The idea that someone would devise a plan to get him up there and then throw him off...in the face of so many buildings and windows seems unlikely to me.




If anything I think the nature of the building adds to it being a convenient place for a murder. It's near the workplace, it still has a number of communal public spaces that would work as a setting for any number of clandestine meetings. Since they're talking about there being bad trade deals and Russian characters and the like it would be within the realm of possibility that they met at one of the bars, or maybe a private or corporate owned apartment in the facility and things went bad.

From Wiki:
"The Belvedere was converted to condominiums in 1991, although the building's historic, distinctive grand interior spaces of the ballrooms, restaurants (such as the "John Eager Howard Room" with its large grand murals of pastoral Baltimore scenery, and the "Owl Bar"), and lounges (including the modernistic night club/bistro, "The 13th Floor" and observation level, along with a basement-level shopping arcade) were cleaned, restored and enhanced, remaining open to the general passing public."


Re: the distance. I'm no expert here, but wouldn't wind be a factor when that high up and in free fall? and any movements he may have made that might have helped propel him forward? The other thing is they assume he jumped/was thrown/whatever off the center of the building's top roof which is where that 45 feet measurement comes in, or the ledges. But they never seemed to address him going off the top roof on one of the wings of the building which looks like it would have been a lot less. And if this was just a suicide, why go to the effort of jumping into the most secluded part of the building rather than onto the more obvious main street on the other 2 sides of the place?

If he got a phone call and then left why didn't they track the call to see who it was?

They covered that -- they said it had something to do with the building's switchboard...they knew it came from there but they couldn't tell which extension.

Why go to a random building to commit suicide? How would he even know how to gain access to the roof?


This is out there, but could he have fallen from a helicopter?

I thought the same thing about the wings on the building, that you have circled up there. I'm no good at physics or anything but I also wondered if he had jumped from there, not necessarily realizing the ledge was there could he have "swan dived" from the top and hit the ledge with his shins accounting for the injuries that they could not explain?

I went through it still convinced it was suicide, but I'll have to watch the second half again, more closely. I know they talked a lot about it being odd that no one noticed anything but if he had been murdered, or forced off, or a scene staged with all those windows no one would have noticed? I can imagine no one noticing someone simply jumping more than not noticing somewhat of a scene involving more than one person.

The glasses, shoes and phone don't bother me much. The glasses least of all because they are light. Also the size of the hole doesn't bother me. I don't think we get a great perspective on how big or small it was, it reminds me of looking at pictures of the pentagon after 9/11 and not believing a plane went through those holes, but it did. From the note it sounds like he could have had some mental illness that he was able to keep hidden from his wife and family.

Why go to a random building to commit suicide? How would he even know how to gain access to the roof?


This is out there, but could he have fallen from a helicopter?

honestly I thought about that too, the way they were putting out there was no way he could have dropped in that hole. If that happened this would be even beyond the strangest case I've heard of. That's CSI (the TV show) type stuff.

As for the building... There are lots of buildings in Minneapolis I know but if I died there people would wonder WTF? Also, people can find their way to lots of places, look at Elisa Lam. Much stranger things have happened than this guy managing to get on the roof if he did.

Very pleased with the new Unsolved Mysteries after one episode; it is very 2020, but captures the spirit of the original, and the one segment format permits the feeling of depth. Very good indeed.

As to this case:

Definitely UM-worthy. Ages ago, I created the thread: Suicide or Murder? The answer always seems obvious to me! (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=198639&highlight=Suicide+murder) - to discuss these sorts of cases as a general category and comment on how often it seemed Unsolved Mysteries was trying to make things seem more convoluted or mysterious than they really were.

In the years since then, I have become aware of several different cases in which suicides were successfully faked, and my stance has softened since then accordingly (I was - dang - 28 when I posted that thread).

Clearly this episode falls within this category. Honestly, I lean suicide, for now, but it is far from clear. I don't have time for a full analysis right now, but one thing that did stand out to me: early in the show, there was the usual insistence that Rey was not the sort of guy to commit suicide, that there was nothing stressing or distressing him in his life at the moment, that he had no known mental health issues, etc.

But, by the end, they all but totally reversed that, saying that in fact that he was apparently spooked by something going on in the weeks prior to his death, implying he was overreacting to apparent attempts by someone to break into the house, suggesting his behavior had changed, he was more worried or otherwise preoccupied.

And that note... I am not sure what the FBI saw or didn't see to dismiss it as a possible suicide note, but it sure seems like it could have been written by someone dealing with an undiagnosed and/or untreated emergent mental illness like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, or the like, any of which can manifest or go from "under relative control without medication" to "out of control" relatively late in a person's development.

That said, the circumstances pose some serious issues. My wife has suggested, not without merit to my way of thinking, that perhaps rather than having fallen from or having been thrown from the top of the building, he was dropped, from a helicopter. Would help to explain the combination of the landing spot and the force.

Why go to a random building to commit suicide? How would he even know how to gain access to the roof?


This is out there, but could he have fallen from a helicopter?

Because it's less than a block from his office, who called him and apparently made him rush out, and it has numerous bars and restaurants. It's an easy meeting place

Very pleased with the new Unsolved Mysteries after one episode; it is very 2020, but captures the spirit of the original, and the one segment format permits the feeling of depth. Very good indeed.

As to this case:

Definitely UM-worthy. Ages ago, I created the thread: Suicide or Murder? The answer always seems obvious to me! (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=198639&highlight=Suicide+murder) - to discuss these sorts of cases as a general category and comment on how often it seemed Unsolved Mysteries was trying to make things seem more convoluted or mysterious than they really were.

In the years since then, I have become aware of several different cases in which suicides were successfully faked, and my stance has softened since then accordingly (I was - dang - 28 when I posted that thread).

Clearly this episode falls within this category. Honestly, I lean suicide, for now, but it is far from clear. I don't have time for a full analysis right now, but one thing that did stand out to me: early in the show, there was the usual insistence that Rey was not the sort of guy to commit suicide, that there was nothing stressing or distressing him in his life at the moment, that he had no known mental health issues, etc.

But, by the end, they all but totally reversed that, saying that in fact that he was apparently spooked by something going on in the weeks prior to his death, implying he was overreacting to apparent attempts by someone to break into the house, suggesting his behavior had changed, he was more worried or otherwise preoccupied.

And that note... I am not sure what the FBI saw or didn't see to dismiss it as a possible suicide note, but it sure seems like it could have been written by someone dealing with an undiagnosed and/or untreated emergent mental illness like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, or the like, any of which can manifest or go from "under relative control without medication" to "out of control" relatively late in a person's development.

That said, the circumstances pose some serious issues. My wife has suggested, not without merit to my way of thinking, that perhaps rather than having fallen from or having been thrown from the top of the building, he was dropped, from a helicopter. Would help to explain the combination of the landing spot and the force.

Since three of us have already mentioned this I don't feel so stupid thinking it now. It's almost like they were leading us to consider that without actually brining it up. I guess because using their measurements it doesn't even seem possible to throw someone that far. I've already posted my other non-helicopter theory though I don't know if that makes sense either.

I’m always surprised at how quickly people jump onto the suicide answer in these cases. In the first few minutes I was thinking, ok suicide. But as things unfolded, I don’t see how that can even be thought of as remotely serious.

To me this has murder written all over it. I’ll be the first to say I don’t think the size of the hole being what it was (a body easily could have fit through even a hole that size), or the glasses and cell phone being found how they were point to either suicide or murder. So I think those things are best put into the “both possibilities” category.

But just a week or two prior to the incident, Rey suddenly begins acting differently. He is reportedly scared (as many would be) with someone potentially trying to break in. There are some nefarious issues going on at his job, and then after writing and hiding a bizarre note (I think everyone can agree this is NOT a suicide note), he gets a phone call and rushes out without telling anyone. He is then found dead in a place that he both had no known business being or any known means of gaining access to.

I can’t say for certain it isn’t suicide, but with events surrounding his death as odd as that, I think the police should have looked into it further. Especially with the ME refusing to note suicide as the cause of death.

Where would a helicopter pick him up? Baring in mind his car was parked next to the Belvedere parking structure the hole was observed from.

Where would a helicopter pick him up? Baring in mind his car was parked next to the Belvedere parking structure the hole was observed from.

I just said I thought about it, not that it was plausible. I just thought it seemed that's where they were leading us. I don't really think that happened.

It's so great to have new material to ponder over and debate.

The one thing that gets me is Rey's friend - Porter Stansbury - and pretty much everyone else in the company shutting down because of a gag order the minute Rey's body is found.

Now if there was some legal technicality related to that SEC case, sure, the company passing down a gag order would make sense. The timing though doesn't lend itself well to that.

To me, Rey either found something out (perhaps a new scheme Stansbury was cooking up), refused to go along with something Stansbury was cooking up or perhaps was used as a fall guy by Stansbury to get the heat off of him.

Because it's less than a block from his office, who called him and apparently made him rush out, and it has numerous bars and restaurants. It's an easy meeting place

Yeah, that still doesn’t make sense. Why sneak onto the hotel roof to kill yourself? There are other, easier ways of doing it. Especially since he’d have to first figure out a way to access the roof.

Yeah, that still doesn’t make sense. Why sneak onto the hotel roof to kill yourself? There are other, easier ways of doing it. Especially since he’d have to first figure out a way to access the roof.

Indeed. That’s why I think there was a meeting there about shady dealings and it went south. Wether directly at Porter’s hands or a business associate connected to him and the stocks that’s the question for me

My wife apparently read the whole reddit thread on the case already and is telling me that over there some folks have done some pretty good research. Good news: our UM is the same old UM in one very important respect - they conveniently "forgot" to include some germane information. In this case, that the wife had said from the time they moved to Baltimore, he had changed a lot, becoming very protective and paranoid, refusing to allow her to go places without him. One time they were out somewhere, evidently, and he saw some dude, just a random guy, and he freaked out.

Sounding more and more to me like an emergent mental health issue. Suicide isn't of course necessarily the answer: in a state of euphoria, he may simply have lost track of reality and wound up falling quite accidentally to his death, somehow. One of the things that you'll often here in UM segments, and you heard this one, and which I never "like" when I hear it, is when someone suggests that when someone has found someplace somewhat off the beaten track that "you would have had to know how to get there." In this case, anybody who is familiar with how buildings work and who gets past first-level security could wander around and find roof accesses if they got lucky or were persistent and were just exploring in a state of mental agitation, perhaps wandering aroudn not even quite paying attention to what he was doing/where he was going.

This case actually most reminds me of the Elisa Lam case: seen behaving unaccountably and eventually disappearing from a hotel in Los Angeles, winds up being found dead inside a water tank on top of the building. Very strange and very unfortunate and improbable sequence of circumstances, if you could run a simulation of it a 1,000 times in a row you probably wouldn't get the same result again, but in the end probably not so much a tragic suicide but a tragic case where a person who had lost their right mind found access to a place that presented a clear and present danger to themselves, and wound up dying accidentally as a result.

Of course, in this case, the nagging detail is that phone call.

[...]In this case, that the wife had said from the time they moved to Baltimore, he had changed a lot, becoming very protective and paranoid, refusing to allow her to go places without him. One time they were out somewhere, evidently, and he saw some dude, just a random guy, and he freaked out.

Sounding more and more to me like an emergent mental health issue.
[...]
Of course, in this case, the nagging detail is that phone call.


Mental health issue makes the most sense...it also explains both the bizarre letter and his freaked out behaviour when the house alarm went off shortly before his death. It also kind of explains his running out of the house in a frenzy when the phone rang.

For me, the nagging detail is the silence of his friend/employer. Why wouldn't you help authorities after the death of a college pal? Although if he'd been busted for securities fraud, it could explain why he was wary of LE.

The entire time up to the last 20 mins with Stansberry then in the light, I thought he committed suicide. Then I changed my opinion:

1. Somebody that wants to have a kid, newly married, doesn't strike me as the type to really want to kill themself. He seemed happy with his wife and job. Family seemed normal too.

2. I think he jumped like full speed off the building. Suicide or not. That, to me, explains the distance.
2a. (What was with him wearing flip flops??! I just can't understand that in Baltimore.)
2b. (Glasses/Phone.....yeah....that's not right at all being intact...)

3. The suicide note was definitely not a suicide note. I don't believe it was a code either. I think he probably planned on leaving that there to "leave his mark". I'm completely baffled as to why on the back of a TV set.

4. Obviously, he found out SOMETHING about his job or maybe they assumed it? He didn't know finance or trades....so it's possible he was killed just out of silencing some secret he stumbled on.
4a. A-holes won't talk because it's from the top of the food chain.
4b. They need to subpoena them.

Just my thoughts. And welcome back UM. (Except for UFO one)

This is out there, but could he have fallen from a helicopter?

I thought the exact same thing, but two things: 1) there would have almost certainly been witnesses who saw/heard a helicopter directly above the building and 2) his car was found in the immediate area outside the building (of course, the car could have been parked there after the fact but to me that seems implausible). And it’s hard to think he was thrown out of a window of one of the condos given his size, the guy was huge. What a strange case.

My wife apparently read the whole reddit thread on the case already and is telling me that over there some folks have done some pretty good research. Good news: our UM is the same old UM in one very important respect - they conveniently "forgot" to include some germane information. In this case, that the wife had said from the time they moved to Baltimore, he had changed a lot, becoming very protective and paranoid, refusing to allow her to go places without him. One time they were out somewhere, evidently, and he saw some dude, just a random guy, and he freaked out.

Sounding more and more to me like an emergent mental health issue. Suicide isn't of course necessarily the answer: in a state of euphoria, he may simply have lost track of reality and wound up falling quite accidentally to his death, somehow. One of the things that you'll often here in UM segments, and you heard this one, and which I never "like" when I hear it, is when someone suggests that when someone has found someplace somewhat off the beaten track that "you would have had to know how to get there." In this case, anybody who is familiar with how buildings work and who gets past first-level security could wander around and find roof accesses if they got lucky or were persistent and were just exploring in a state of mental agitation, perhaps wandering aroudn not even quite paying attention to what he was doing/where he was going.

This case actually most reminds me of the Elisa Lam case: seen behaving unaccountably and eventually disappearing from a hotel in Los Angeles, winds up being found dead inside a water tank on top of the building. Very strange and very unfortunate and improbable sequence of circumstances, if you could run a simulation of it a 1,000 times in a row you probably wouldn't get the same result again, but in the end probably not so much a tragic suicide but a tragic case where a person who had lost their right mind found access to a place that presented a clear and present danger to themselves, and wound up dying accidentally as a result.

Of course, in this case, the nagging detail is that phone call.

Thanks for the info... that definitely is interesting (re: his change in personality when they moved). I wonder if they neglected to mention that given the fact that his Wife is 100% adamant he did not and would not have committed suicide and the lead detective on the case thinks the same. Unfortunately, unless someone comes forward with something of substance, this is gonna be an extremely tough one to solve.

The main thing that gets me, other than that completely batshit note behind the computer, is the complete lack of witnesses and of his presence on the security footage. How is this even possible? All these cameras they mention...was there not one at the front entrance? A person at the concierge desk? Public restaurants and shops in that building in addition to however many residents, plus people walking/driving on busy downtown streets, and no one heard the massive noise a guy would make falling eleven stories and THROUGH the roof? What on earth??

There's a reason BPD believed this was a suicide early on into the investigation...because all signs pointed to it. First, let me get my nitpicks out of the way about the episode. For one, everything is told from the point of view that "Rey would never commit suicide" from his family members, to the 2 investigative journalists, to the lone detective who didn't believe it was a suicide. Yes, there was archive footage, but nothing was elaborated on other than "all signs point to suicide". Second, his family having anecdotal stories about how he was happy and not at all depressed mean absolutely nothing.

For starters, if it was nearly impossible for Rey to jump from the roof or the parking garage, then it's nearly impossible that someone else could have pushed or thrown him from those locations. He was a large guy. You would need a minimum of 2 people to throw his body from a considerable distance to puncture the hole in the roof. The balcony, IMO, is where Rey jumped. Here's another frustrating part about the segment: the hotel was within close proximity to Rey's work office...did he ever have meetings there? Did he ever have lunch with clients there? We aren't given those answers because the segment was presented in a way to draw people away from the suicide conclusion. Rey could have gone to the Belvedere for business and saw how easy it was to access the ledge area.

The note left behind (taped on the side of his computer) is not indicative of someone who is scared that their life is in danger. You don't write about Stanley Kubrick films you "enjoyed" (note the past-tense) if you were in fear for your life. And you certainly wouldn't write a coded message. This isn't a movie. IMO, it wasn't necessarily a suicide note per se, but it was the ramblings of a man suffering from mental illness. So here's my theory:

Rey mentioned a Michael Douglas movie, "The Game", in his note. At the end of the film, Michael Douglas jumps off of a roof and falls through a glass ceiling before landing on an air cushion revealing that the entire movie was a "game" devised by his brother. Sound familiar? Remember that Rey's lifelong dream was to become a screenwriter. I believe that shortly before moving to Baltimore, Rey's dream of becoming a screenwriter was not going to become a reality. IMO, his friend Porter, whom was in hot water from the SEC for giving out fraudulent investment advice, was still doing this...with the help of Rey. Remember, Rey was the "editor" for the financial magazine. I believe the phone call he received that night was from someone that Rey worked with warning him that he was going to be roped into the SEC investigation for helping continue the fraud. I believe this set him off and is what caused him to jump from the Belvedere. It would also explain his paranoid behavior in the days/weeks prior to his death. It would also explain why Porter Stansberry lawyered up and refused to cooperate with the authorities with regards to Rey's death. And, it would explain why the note left behind taped to his computer was written in the past tense and why it happened while his wife was away on a business trip.

Consider this: if the security camera from the roof was actually plugged in that night (even if they didn't capture anything of relevance), and if his phone was found damaged beyond repair...would this case be that much of a mystery? I think Rey became disillusioned with his new home and job, and also was fearful that he somehow would become implicated with the SEC complaint filed against his friend Porter. Throw that in with mental illness and I don't see how this could be anything other than suicide.

I feel a piece of the puzzle is missing with regard to the house guest. Everyone's coming in but she left? I'm not saying she's involved but I'm a bit confused by that whole scenario. It came off like they were "meh" to the whole missing person unfolding around them.

This stuck out to me as well. What the hell is going on there? That was the last person to see him alive, and we only know that he "left in a hurry" because of the housemate's account of what happened. He could have gone missing much earlier.

The note left behind (taped on the side of his computer) is not indicative of someone who is scared that their life is in danger. You don't write about Stanley Kubrick films you "enjoyed" (note the past-tense) if you were in fear for your life. And you certainly wouldn't write a coded message. This isn't a movie.

Really good post, Cars. You bring up some interesting points. I do want to push back on the note, though. I don't think it makes sense to anyone reading it because it wasn't meant to make sense to anyone except Rey. I have a file on my computer with names and places that would look a lot like gibberish to the average person, but I use it to remember my passwords for websites. It's all in a code only I would recognize, so no one could crack the code (easily, anyway) and by looking at it I can remember what my passwords are. I have the feeling this was similar to Rey. I don't see why someone would print out a note, shrink it, put it in plastic, and then tape it to the back of the computer unless it was important and meant to be referenced "in case of."

I do think you have a lot of valid points in your theory, and it is entirely possible that Rey had become paranoid over the SEC investigations and/or things Porter wanted him to do which weren't on the level. It could be one of those cases where he was mores scared of the unknown (possibility of someone coming after him) than the reality of it.

The fact the hole was so small makes me think he fell in straight up, which would imply he was in control of his body. If you were thrown or fell off, you would flail just out of reaction. There was a documentary on people who killed themselves by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, and they have footage on a number of the deaths. Surprisingly, in many cases, people appeared to be very calm going in the water and often under control. The fact his legs were so badly damaged makes me think he went in feet first too. The biggest problem with that, though, is there is no logical jumping off point. If he went off the roof or the ledge, he would need momentum which would make his path more of an arc than a vertical line. It's hard for me to understand the physics of this based on what we saw in the story.

I also agree the lack of damage on the phone and glasses are likely red herrings. There could be numerous explanations for those having less damage even if he jumped from the roof.

The biggest issues I have are the suddenness of this (he ran out of the house after being called from work) and the fact he left no real note behind. I just can't believe this guy, even if troubled and/or mentally ill, would get a call from work and then say "Well, I guess I need to jump off the roof of the Belvedere" and leave nothing for his wife. I'm not 100% set this was murder, but I have a hard time believing this was a straight up suicide based on what they showed.

This stuck out to me as well. What the hell is going on there? That was the last person to see him alive, and we only know that he "left in a hurry" because of the housemate's account of what happened. He could have gone missing much earlier.

Keep in mind the house guest was a co-worker of Rey's. There were illegal things going on at that office, so it's possible Porter and/or others told all the employees to shut the hell up or they could all go to jail.

IIRC, the house guest called Rey's wife at 5:30 the next morning to say he never made it home. The timing on that seems odd to me unless that is when she normally got up. It certainly does seem like that person should have more information that is relevant than they talked about.

This case actually most reminds me of the Elisa Lam case: seen behaving unaccountably and eventually disappearing from a hotel in Los Angeles, winds up being found dead inside a water tank on top of the building. Very strange and very unfortunate and improbable sequence of circumstances, if you could run a simulation of it a 1,000 times in a row you probably wouldn't get the same result again, but in the end probably not so much a tragic suicide but a tragic case where a person who had lost their right mind found access to a place that presented a clear and present danger to themselves, and wound up dying accidentally as a result.

The question of how Elisa got to the roof undetected was answered when I watched a YouTube video of three friends who tried to retrace her steps. They were able to get to the fire escape from an unlocked window in the hallway of the (6th?) floor and then walk their way up to the top. But the Belvedere seems much more high class than the Cecil Hotel. More security, more people, more rooms...much more difficult to make your way up there.

Also, we knew why Elisa was at the Cecil. The same can't be said for why Rey would be at the Belvedere. It's strange.

Really good post, Cars. You bring up some interesting points. I do want to push back on the note, though. I don't think it makes sense to anyone reading it because it wasn't meant to make sense to anyone except Rey. I have a file on my computer with names and places that would look a lot like gibberish to the average person, but I use it to remember my passwords for websites. It's all in a code only I would recognize, so no one could crack the code (easily, anyway) and by looking at it I can remember what my passwords are. I have the feeling this was similar to Rey. I don't see why someone would print out a note, shrink it, put it in plastic, and then tape it to the back of the computer unless it was important and meant to be referenced "in case of."

His wife says she found scraps in the trashcan next to the computer and that she knew he wrote the note on the day he disappeared.

The note:

Brothers and sisters

Right now, around the world volcanos are erupting. What an amazing sight.

Virtus est uniens, non dividis mors, "Whom virtue unites, death will not separate."

That was well played game. Congratulations to all who participated. I hope you enjoyed it, but, it was time to wake up, so here I am.

I'd like to welcome those who accepted our invitations for membership during the game. We couldn't have done it without you.

I took on this endeavor to find the truth. But, not for it's own sake. In accepting this quest for the truth, I hoped to make myself, with the help of others, into a man worthy and ready to receive it.

Members of the council, please note that I will lend careful concentration to the traditional responsibilities. In light of these proceedings and I will satisfy the standard requests of this council, within the appropriate time.

Again, well done to all who participated. I expect the council has invited all the players who gave their lives to this pursuit back so they may join us home: Thom Hickling, Rayburn, [2 illegible names], Stanley Kubrick.

Fare thee well, Rob Rosenburg.

Before I continue with my instructions for the council and claim my prize for my service, I'd like to allow Porter Stansberry to claim his prize. Now Porter, don't [2 illegible words] months by claiming something I'll just take back.

Thom Hickling was an evangelist who died in an auto accident in 2005. I cannot find any reference to Rayburn, but Stanley Kubrick died in 1999. "Dink's Song" is a popular folk song and is sometimes referred to as "Fare Thee Well". The lyrics:

If I had wings like Noah's dove,
I'd fly up da river to the man I love.
Fare thee well, O Honey, fare thee well.

Ise got a man, an' he's long and tall,
Moves his body like a cannonball.
Fare thee well, O Honey, fare thee well.

One o' dese days, an' it won't be long,
Call my name an' I'll be gone.
Fare thee well, O Honey, fare thee well.

'Member one night, a-drizzlin' rain,
Roun' my heart I felt a pain.
Fare thee well, O Honey, fare thee well.

When I wo' my ap'ons low,
Couldn't keep you from my do'.
Fare thee well, O Honey, fare thee well.

Now I wears my ap'ons high,
Sca'cely ever see you passin' by.
Fare thee well, O Honey, fare thee well.

Now my ap'ons up to my chin,
You pass my do' an' you won' come in,
Fare thee well, O Honey, fare thee well.

Ef I had listened to whut my mama said,
I'd be at home in my mama's bed.
Fare thee well, O Honey, fare thee well.

The next section has him say that "Along with the myself, these players should be made 5 years younger by the counsel:", and he lists the names that were blacked out in the segment. The last portion of the note calls out Keith Richards and says that he's "had a good run". The last portion also mentions "human progress", "the ultimate goal", and is ended with, "Take care and enjoy the butterflies". Does not sound like something someone would type up to remember passwords, or because they were fearful for their life. IMO, this is a partially coded and partially stream of consciousness suicide note.


The biggest issues I have are the suddenness of this (he ran out of the house after being called from work) and the fact he left no real note behind. I just can't believe this guy, even if troubled and/or mentally ill, would get a call from work and then say "Well, I guess I need to jump off the roof of the Belvedere" and leave nothing for his wife. I'm not 100% set this was murder, but I have a hard time believing this was a straight up suicide based on what they showed.

What if the phone call was a red herring? Remember Mike O'Mara? He left to go get ice cream, but then stopped off at his firm before heading over to the service station where his body was ultimately found. And his death was ruled a suicide. I believe Rey could have gotten a legitimate business call, but something happened along the way which set him off. I don't think he was in his right mind at that point.

What if the phone call was a red herring? Remember Mike O'Mara? He left to go get ice cream, but then stopped off at his firm before heading over to the service station where his body was ultimately found. And his death was ruled a suicide. I believe Rey could have gotten a legitimate business call, but something happened along the way which set him off. I don't think he was in his right mind at that point.

Good point.

The next section has him say that "Along with the myself, these players should be made 5 years younger by the counsel:", and he lists the names that were blacked out in the segment. The last portion of the note calls out Keith Richards and says that he's "had a good run". The last portion also mentions "human progress", "the ultimate goal", and is ended with, "Take care and enjoy the butterflies". Does not sound like something someone would type up to remember passwords, or because they were fearful for their life. IMO, this is a partially coded and partially stream of consciousness suicide note.


God dang... This note reminds me so much of "6 knives in Rob's room" in terms of gibberish that obviously meant something to the author, whether of sound mind or not.

Someone on Reddit suggested that it could be a stream of consciousness type note for a movie idea that he had. Maybe he didn't want it to be found because he thought it was so good.

Also interesting on the day he died, he had purchased "Freemasons for Dummies" and went to the local lodge to ask about joining. I also read that he and his wife were planning/considering moving back to LA, and that Rey was never happy in Maryland. This is in contrast to his wife who talks about loving their house and a new church.

Whether it was murder or suicide, it seems that Rey had dreams of being a screenwriter that were never going to happen. He probably took the job in Maryland for income and to work with his buddy, but after starting he realized he didn't like the job, didn't know much about finance, and he wasn't doing what he really wanted. Now throw in some illegal/unethical activity, and that could certainly lead a person down the road to depression and anxiety.

I do think it's interesting that there is more information out there about Rey being stressed and/or paranoid, but both his wife and brother totally dismissed that. (Is this another, newer example of the UM spin effect?)

One other thought: the cop in the UM segment dismisses a jump from the garage because it was "only" 20 feet. From my EMT training, I know you can die in a fall from 3 times your height, which this would be -- it is like jumping off a 2 story house. That's not the same as jumping from an 11-story roof, but it is not an insignificant distance. Also, that office area sounded pretty old, so there is no way of knowing what the condition of that roof was. So what if Rey was on the top of the parking garage to meet someone, was being chased, or thought he was being chased and ran to the edge and jumped off? He may have thought he could stick the landing, but that's a lot of momentum for a guy his size and if the roof was at all weak, he could easily have broken his legs and fallen through. That might explain why his phone and glasses were relatively undamaged.

That to me makes a hell of a lot more sense physics wise than anything having to do with the Belvedere.

There's a reason BPD believed this was a suicide early on into the investigation...because all signs pointed to it. First, let me get my nitpicks out of the way about the episode. For one, everything is told from the point of view that "Rey would never commit suicide" from his family members, to the 2 investigative journalists, to the lone detective who didn't believe it was a suicide. Yes, there was archive footage, but nothing was elaborated on other than "all signs point to suicide". Second, his family having anecdotal stories about how he was happy and not at all depressed mean absolutely nothing.

For starters, if it was nearly impossible for Rey to jump from the roof or the parking garage, then it's nearly impossible that someone else could have pushed or thrown him from those locations. He was a large guy. You would need a minimum of 2 people to throw his body from a considerable distance to puncture the hole in the roof. The balcony, IMO, is where Rey jumped. Here's another frustrating part about the segment: the hotel was within close proximity to Rey's work office...did he ever have meetings there? Did he ever have lunch with clients there? We aren't given those answers because the segment was presented in a way to draw people away from the suicide conclusion. Rey could have gone to the Belvedere for business and saw how easy it was to access the ledge area.

The note left behind (taped on the side of his computer) is not indicative of someone who is scared that their life is in danger. You don't write about Stanley Kubrick films you "enjoyed" (note the past-tense) if you were in fear for your life. And you certainly wouldn't write a coded message. This isn't a movie. IMO, it wasn't necessarily a suicide note per se, but it was the ramblings of a man suffering from mental illness. So here's my theory:

Rey mentioned a Michael Douglas movie, "The Game", in his note. At the end of the film, Michael Douglas jumps off of a roof and falls through a glass ceiling before landing on an air cushion revealing that the entire movie was a "game" devised by his brother. Sound familiar? Remember that Rey's lifelong dream was to become a screenwriter. I believe that shortly before moving to Baltimore, Rey's dream of becoming a screenwriter was not going to become a reality. IMO, his friend Porter, whom was in hot water from the SEC for giving out fraudulent investment advice, was still doing this...with the help of Rey. Remember, Rey was the "editor" for the financial magazine. I believe the phone call he received that night was from someone that Rey worked with warning him that he was going to be roped into the SEC investigation for helping continue the fraud. I believe this set him off and is what caused him to jump from the Belvedere. It would also explain his paranoid behavior in the days/weeks prior to his death. It would also explain why Porter Stansberry lawyered up and refused to cooperate with the authorities with regards to Rey's death. And, it would explain why the note left behind taped to his computer was written in the past tense and why it happened while his wife was away on a business trip.

Consider this: if the security camera from the roof was actually plugged in that night (even if they didn't capture anything of relevance), and if his phone was found damaged beyond repair...would this case be that much of a mystery? I think Rey became disillusioned with his new home and job, and also was fearful that he somehow would become implicated with the SEC complaint filed against his friend Porter. Throw that in with mental illness and I don't see how this could be anything other than suicide.

Okay, so I saw a comment you made yesterday about how you believed Rey committed suicide and I thought you were off your rocker.

Now I get it. The connection to the movie "The Game" is fascinating. I have not seen the movie, so the reference was lost on me...

(Is this another, newer example of the UM spin effect?)

Yes. They don't mention just how increasingly paranoid and possessive Rey became in the months/weeks leading up to his death. They also don't mention how the family was peddling bizarre theories about Rey uncovering "control" that the Masons had over the film industry. They do spend a lot of time talking about how difficult it would have been for Rey to access the roof, or be able to control himself to jump off of the ledge...but make no mention about how this would be even more difficult to do with multiple people trying to make his death look like a suicide or accident.

I appreciate someone mentioned the potential mental health angle. I wondered the same thing when I heard about the note. As part of my job, I'm frequently exposed to folks who are experiencing mental health issues, and I've seen very similar letters from folks who are going through something major.

Yes. They don't mention just how increasingly paranoid and possessive Rey became in the months/weeks leading up to his death. They also don't mention how the family was peddling bizarre theories about Rey uncovering "control" that the Masons had over the film industry. They do spend a lot of time talking about how difficult it would have been for Rey to access the roof, or be able to control himself to jump off of the ledge...but make no mention about how this would be even more difficult to do with multiple people trying to make his death look like a suicide or accident.

It sounds like another case where the spouse/family was so broken up by the death that they were clinging to anything that helps their cause of it being murder... I really feel for his wife. You can tell her world has just been shattered since Rey's death.

Again, the physics bother me as does Porter Stansberry telling everyone to zip it right after Rey died. Now he may just be protecting his company's interests, but the fact he personally NEVER gave an interview is very telling. What does he have to hide? With his history, it's entirely possible that he was doing other illegal things and just didn't want the police poking their noses in his business, however the fact that this was his lifelong best friend and coworker and he said nothing to anyone really smells.

It would be so easy for Porter to say, "Oh, poor Rey became disillusioned and he was depressed by his situation and that he couldn't write films..." but he said nothing. It doesn't mean guilt but it sure as hell implies it.

IMO, this is a partially coded and partially stream of consciousness suicide note.

That's the problem though... A suicide note is for the survivors or investigators, not the deceased. Why would he write a note that made no logical sense or needed decoding and then hide it? Sure, it could have been because of a manic break (again, "6 knives in Rob's room") but I feel like it was a coded message. It either was for him to remind him later, or it was for someone else -- not necessarily his wife. It could be for another co-worker who would understand the references. Think of the Chalres Morgan $2 bill -- no one has figured out what it meant but it was obviously a map with references to something that made sense to him. It could be just ramblings of a sick person (and I mean that compassionately), but it just seems odd that he would write it, shrink it, wrap it, and hide it if it was truly gibberish. Whether logical or not, it meant something to him and I don't see in any way how it was a suicide note.

I think the references to "The Game" are interesting (that was a good movie). But two things: Michael Douglas didn't know he was playing a game until the end, and he survived. I wonder if Rey's mention of "game" had to do with business practices, especially ones that went against his sense of legality or ethics.

I appreciate someone mentioned the potential mental health angle. I wondered the same thing when I heard about the note. As part of my job, I'm frequently exposed to folks who are experiencing mental health issues, and I've seen very similar letters from folks who are going through something major.

Interesting... Serious question: have you ever seen them hidden? Are they notes or journal entries?

I could see how someone could ramble like this in a journal or file, but the location of this bothers me a great deal.

It sounds like another case where the spouse/family was so broken up by the death that they were clinging to anything that helps their cause of it being murder... I really feel for his wife. You can tell her world has just been shattered since Rey's death.

Again, the physics bother me as does Porter Stansberry telling everyone to zip it right after Rey died. Now he may just be protecting his company's interests, but the fact he personally NEVER gave an interview is very telling. What does he have to hide? With his history, it's entirely possible that he was doing other illegal things and just didn't want the police poking their noses in his business, however the fact that this was his lifelong best friend and coworker and he said nothing to anyone really smells.

It would be so easy for Porter to say, "Oh, poor Rey became disillusioned and he was depressed by his situation and that he couldn't write films..." but he said nothing. It doesn't mean guilt but it sure as hell implies it.



Agreed. You can shout suicide all you want - but no matter how you theorize it, there's no logical explanation for Stansberry clamming up and throwing down a gag order across his whole company right after Rey's body was found.

It could very well be Stansberry had some other/more illegal stuff going on and the timing of the gag order and everything was mere coincidence. Why refuse to speak on the possible death of his friend though unless there was some kind of connection?? A simple 'no comment' would've sufficed.

Agreed. You can shout suicide all you want - but no matter how you theorize it, there's no logical explanation for Stansberry clamming up and throwing down a gag order across his whole company right after Rey's body was found.

The easiest and most logical explanation is that his lawyers told him to shut up, being as they were already under investigation for the SEC violations. I'm not seeing how this is nefarious. A company under investigation for potential SEC violations has one of their employees found dead, outside of their office and not while at their offices, and the company is supposed to willingly cooperate with the police for something that they would have no knowledge on? Since Stansberry's company ultimately was found responsible for giving out false financial advice (in 2007, a year after Rey's death), it's certainly possible that the lawyers didn't want them to potentially open up even more evidence of them continuing to give out fraudulent financial advice.

Lawyering up is normally a big red flag for people, but its actually not an uncommon thing and is, IMO, a sensible course of action, especially if you are completely innocent.

Police and investigators are fallible and could find a reason to pin something on you, so its best to get on top of it before you find yourself wrongfully accused of something. Keep as much control over the situation as possible.

That's the problem though... A suicide note is for the survivors or investigators, not the deceased. Why would he write a note that made no logical sense or needed decoding and then hide it? Sure, it could have been because of a manic break (again, "6 knives in Rob's room") but I feel like it was a coded message. It either was for him to remind him later, or it was for someone else -- not necessarily his wife. It could be for another co-worker who would understand the references. Think of the Chalres Morgan $2 bill -- no one has figured out what it meant but it was obviously a map with references to something that made sense to him. It could be just ramblings of a sick person (and I mean that compassionately), but it just seems odd that he would write it, shrink it, wrap it, and hide it if it was truly gibberish. Whether logical or not, it meant something to him and I don't see in any way how it was a suicide note.

The coded messages contained within could be his way of saying goodbye to various loved ones and friends, just like Charles Morgan and his "green eyes" giving his wife a bible passage over the phone. This case was huge around here when he went missing, and then when his body was found and the reports of his increasing paranoia (which were given by his wife) it was pretty much an open and shut case of suicide. Porter Stansberry wasn't seriously considered as a suspect (by the media, police, or his family) and the foul play theory relied heavily on the Freemasons being involved somehow.

I appreciate someone mentioned the potential mental health angle. I wondered the same thing when I heard about the note. As part of my job, I'm frequently exposed to folks who are experiencing mental health issues, and I've seen very similar letters from folks who are going through something major.

I too am regularly exposed to people with mental health issues (I work in customer service) 😁

If Rey did somehow do this to himself, which I’m very skeptical of, mental illness (beyond just being suicidal) seems the only possibility to me. This is why I tend to think of the possibility of murder is likely here.

I’ll admit certain aspects seem to point to both sides of the argument, but until a better answer than “he got up there somehow” is presented as to how he got into the building and onto the roof completely undetected, how and why he had a cryptic note on the back of his computer, who called him and what caused him to run out of the house frantically, I think this really needs to be looked at as a possible murder. If those things can be answered or addressed with more certainty, I just don’t see how it could be ruled one way or another just yet.

Has anyone considered that Rey intentionally made the note convoluted and cryptic, as well as chose a suicide method that seemed bizarre, because he was possibly trying to cover up the fact that it was a suicide? If he truly was depressed, that can come with massive guilt. And we know he was a creative guy if his dream was to be a screenwriter, so maybe he decided he was finished but didn't want his wife to blame herself and his family to blame themselves for not seeing or not "helping". I know it sounds crazy, but there was that mother who staged a disappearance and possible murder in UM history only to fly to another state and kill herself in a hotel, deciding it was better for her family to never know what happened to her than to know she killed herself. So maybe Rey made his suicide look like foul play with that same idea in mind.

They did a great job selecting this case. It is extremely bizarre and baffling to figure out. That’s what UM is all about really. On to the second episode...

? I think Rey became disillusioned with his new home and job, and also was fearful that he somehow would become implicated with the SEC complaint filed against his friend Porter. Throw that in with mental illness and I don't see how this could be anything other than suicide.

By George, I think you've (more or less) got it!

Really dismaying that UM didn't really give an accurate picture of Rey's mental health issues - the segment meant to give the impression that everything was fine n' dandy until a few days before his death.

This does not bode well for the rest of the series

By George, I think you've (more or less) got it!

Really dismaying that UM didn't really give an accurate picture of Rey's mental health issues - the segment meant to give the impression that everything was fine n' dandy until a few days before his death.

This does not bode well for the rest of the series


That's typical UM for you right there

There's a reason BPD believed this was a suicide early on into the investigation...because all signs pointed to it. First, let me get my nitpicks out of the way about the episode. For one, everything is told from the point of view that "Rey would never commit suicide" from his family members, to the 2 investigative journalists, to the lone detective who didn't believe it was a suicide. Yes, there was archive footage, but nothing was elaborated on other than "all signs point to suicide". Second, his family having anecdotal stories about how he was happy and not at all depressed mean absolutely nothing.

For starters, if it was nearly impossible for Rey to jump from the roof or the parking garage, then it's nearly impossible that someone else could have pushed or thrown him from those locations. He was a large guy. You would need a minimum of 2 people to throw his body from a considerable distance to puncture the hole in the roof. The balcony, IMO, is where Rey jumped. Here's another frustrating part about the segment: the hotel was within close proximity to Rey's work office...did he ever have meetings there? Did he ever have lunch with clients there? We aren't given those answers because the segment was presented in a way to draw people away from the suicide conclusion. Rey could have gone to the Belvedere for business and saw how easy it was to access the ledge area.

The note left behind (taped on the side of his computer) is not indicative of someone who is scared that their life is in danger. You don't write about Stanley Kubrick films you "enjoyed" (note the past-tense) if you were in fear for your life. And you certainly wouldn't write a coded message. This isn't a movie. IMO, it wasn't necessarily a suicide note per se, but it was the ramblings of a man suffering from mental illness. So here's my theory:

Rey mentioned a Michael Douglas movie, "The Game", in his note. At the end of the film, Michael Douglas jumps off of a roof and falls through a glass ceiling before landing on an air cushion revealing that the entire movie was a "game" devised by his brother. Sound familiar? Remember that Rey's lifelong dream was to become a screenwriter. I believe that shortly before moving to Baltimore, Rey's dream of becoming a screenwriter was not going to become a reality. IMO, his friend Porter, whom was in hot water from the SEC for giving out fraudulent investment advice, was still doing this...with the help of Rey. Remember, Rey was the "editor" for the financial magazine. I believe the phone call he received that night was from someone that Rey worked with warning him that he was going to be roped into the SEC investigation for helping continue the fraud. I believe this set him off and is what caused him to jump from the Belvedere. It would also explain his paranoid behavior in the days/weeks prior to his death. It would also explain why Porter Stansberry lawyered up and refused to cooperate with the authorities with regards to Rey's death. And, it would explain why the note left behind taped to his computer was written in the past tense and why it happened while his wife was away on a business trip.

Consider this: if the security camera from the roof was actually plugged in that night (even if they didn't capture anything of relevance), and if his phone was found damaged beyond repair...would this case be that much of a mystery? I think Rey became disillusioned with his new home and job, and also was fearful that he somehow would become implicated with the SEC complaint filed against his friend Porter. Throw that in with mental illness and I don't see how this could be anything other than suicide.

Every single word of this.

What little I could read of it, the very first impression I got was that it was absolutely a suicide note. Now that I understand the implications of 'The Game' (which I've never seen nor knew anything about until coming into the board this AM), there's no doubt in my mind Rey Rivera committed suicide and that the SEC complaint against Stansberry was the catalyst.

Every single word of this.

What little I could read of it, the very first impression I got was that it was absolutely a suicide note. Now that I understand the implications of 'The Game' (which I've never seen nor knew anything about until coming into the board this AM), there's no doubt in my mind Rey Rivera committed suicide and that the SEC complaint against Stansberry was the catalyst.

Yeah I don't know what in that note led the FBI to conclude it was *not* a suicide note but it felt very suicide-y to me.

Great catch about The Game The Cars, I never saw that movie.

I was more than willing to believe that Rey didn't so much commit suicide as lose his sense of himself and wound up some place where his sense of the danger was not activated, but now that I know about that about the movie... too convenient to be anything other than intentional. Of course, if Rey was not in the right frame of mind (and clearly he was not), maybe he believed he would survive like the character in the film. Not enough to say definitively "suicide" in the traditional sense, but definitely self-inflicted with a certain degree of intent.

It’s not surprising to me that the same posters who think Rey killed himself also think Cindy James killed herself. *sigh*

It’s not surprising to me that the same posters who think Rey killed himself also think Cindy James killed herself. *sigh*

We're probably all the same people who don't believe in conspiracy theories.

I can't believe people think they didn't kill themselves. *shrug*

Seems like this is an agree to disagree situation.

Thank goodness for the “ignore user” button! ☺️

I'm also inclined to believe this was a suicide. I want to bring up what the medical examiner said about the injuries being inconsistent with a fall/jump. He had crashed through the roof of the conference room, so this would have added additional injuries before he finally hit the floor.

Regarding the glasses and cell phone, we don't know where these were during the event. If they had been in a back pocket, for example, the cell phone could have perhaps bounced out once he hit the ground/roof and that's why there wasn't much damage. Some of those older phones are extremely sturdy, and if it made contact with the ground on its own (rather than hitting the ground with him making more weight on it), I can see why it was pretty much unscathed. Glasses also weigh much less than a person does--and if he had those in a pocket, they also could have come out at a lower height if they fell sometime during the descent or bounced out. I just find it implausible someone would have killed him and then left them next to the body to make it look like a jump. Didn't the door need to be opened with a key only staff had?

As for the "friend" and employer, I can see the gag order as a form of protection from legal liability. It's cruel, considering Rey and his wife moved there for his business, and they had been friends for years, that he didn't even reach out to Rey's loved ones after this. But I agree with others that this isn't so much of a red flag.

I believe this was a suicide through and through. This case seems similar to the Charles Morgan case: two men who were probably involved in shady business dealings that seemed increasingly paranoid and left behind odd suicide-esque notes.

I think Rey was planning to commit suicide all along. If Rey had typed that note and taped it to the computer earlier that day, then I think him panicking about the phone call was a red herring. I'm not sure if the phone call had important information or not, but I think him freaking out and running out the house after receiving the phone call was to make the business associate staying at their house a "witness" to something nefarious going on. I think Rey wanted his death to seem like foul-play and cryptic rather than a suicide. That phone call was the perfect opportunity he needed to go and commit suicide.

I'm nitpicking here, but something in the beginning of the episode seemed very weird to me. When they first moved to Baltimore his wife told Rey that "she loved him so much" and he replied "thank you for loving me so much" rather than I love you too. I wonder if he was really happy with her/his life?

Porter being quiet isn't really that surprising because if he and Rey were into something deep, then him saying anything could trickle back to his company and get him further in trouble. Or maybe his lawyer's told him to be quiet as L.E. could use what he said against him and he could be framed for Rey's death

It’s classic UM in the sense they have laymen making fairly bold statements about how something is scientifically impossible. Would an expert hired by the show report that it was possible for Rey to have jumped in such a way to hit that spot? We don’t know. I recall this very situation in at least a few UM episodes, where the the victim’s family would boldly say someone could not have physically done something, and then an expert is brought in to explain, yes it is very possible.

If there was foul play involved is it possible he didn’t fall and this was actually staged? The hole in the roof by the shows’s own admission was unusual in size and the medical examiner reported that some of his leg injuries were not consistent with a fall. Notice also how the police dance around how they describe the condition of the body. They repeatedly describe his injuries only as “extensive.” Fine, but how? And we’re the injuries mostly consistent with only a fall? Could they have been caused by blunt force trauma (with a bat, sledge hammer, etc?) It’s a massively complex coverup, but it does explain some things. It would explain why there is no video footage of Rey in the Belvedere. It would explain why his cell phone and glasses appeared to be placed strategically and were undamaged. It would be consistent with not being able to easily access the ledge or roof. It would explain why the hole was in that location if it could not be reached by a jumper under any circumstances.

If there was foul play involved is it possible he didn’t fall and this was actually staged? The hole in the roof by the shows’s own admission was unusual in size and the medical examiner reported that some of his leg injuries were not consistent with a fall.

It'd be pretty ballsy to stage this given the location where the body was found. That means creating a hole (making noise) and stuffing a dead body in it under a bunch of windows at a hotel.

It'd be pretty ballsy to stage this given the location where the body was found. That means creating a hole (making noise) and stuffing a dead body in it under a bunch of windows at a hotel.

Yeah, people are already incredulous that no one heard a single person doing something, if there had been all that hullabaloo that's even more strange that no one noticed or heard anything.

I think Rey wanted his death to seem like foul-play and cryptic rather than a suicide. That phone call was the perfect opportunity he needed to go and commit suicide.

I agree with this exactly. It's just so purposefully and deliberately strange to me, and I could go along with the idea that it was a password reminder as others have suggested if it hadn't been put behind the TV that very day. That's too much of a coincidence for an innocent letter (and he referred to himself in the past tense, as others have pointed out), but if it was meant to be found aka suicide letter or 'weird things are happening that I know too much about', it shouldn't have been that cryptic.

if it hadn't been put behind the TV that very day.

Yep, the note being placed there that day is what made me think it was a planned suicide. If there was no note, and he received a phone call and ran out then maybe I could see why someone would say foul play, but the note shows he was planning suicide.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was an innocent phone call or he called someone there and they called him back and he made a big deal out of it to fool the housemate

Agreed. You can shout suicide all you want - but no matter how you theorize it, there's no logical explanation for Stansberry clamming up and throwing down a gag order across his whole company right after Rey's body was found.

It could very well be Stansberry had some other/more illegal stuff going on and the timing of the gag order and everything was mere coincidence. Why refuse to speak on the possible death of his friend though unless there was some kind of connection?? A simple 'no comment' would've sufficed.

Maybe because they thought the illegal activity he might have been aware of/part of would either be found to be the cause of his suicide or that it would come up in the investigation of his suicide?

Yep, the note being placed there that day is what made me think it was a planned suicide. If there was no note, and he received a phone call and ran out then maybe I could see why someone would say foul play, but the note shows he was planning suicide.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was an innocent phone call or he called someone there and they called him back and he made a big deal out of it to fool the housemate

But.. There was talk of him being interested in codes, and that note certainly has a 'code' feel to it.

AND.. I'd be with you.. if the company hadn't gone on lockdown.

Here's my view on it.. The company knows the answer. Either they are culpable or they know what drove him to suicide. Perhaps being caught up in something shady that they didn't know about and they're covering their own butts.

Sooner or later.. Someone who works there that has knowledge.. Is gonna get their feelings hurt.. And they'll go to the police.

this is not an unsolvable case, IMO. Just gotta wait until someone's anger, conscience or something else gets the better of them.

The "suicide" crowd here is really stretching for that conclusion.

In any case (no pun), these are my thoughts as to why this was likely murder:

1) The strange activity at Rey's home in the week before his death.

2) The bizarre behavior of the company he worked for immediately following his death. A company-wide gag order? Why?

3) The illegal behavior of said company and how Rey's job was to run a propaganda operation to repair his friend's reputation.

4) Who commits suicide by going to an expensive building with high levels of surveillance populated by people who clearly value their privacy and security? (I was born and raised in Baltimore, the folks who live in a place like the Belvedere aren't keen on people just walking into their building off the streets).

5) The note could be several things: a) something created by Rey as a code, b) something created by Rey's killers to make it look like he was a weirdo stuck on conspiracy theories, c) something that none of us can possibly understand - but its existence is truly bizarre and doesn't seem to fit the scenario of a suicide.

But if the note is a) or b), then it stands to reason that someone had something to hide - either Rey himself or his killers putting it there to throw off investigators and deliberately create confusion.

On a different subject, I wonder if the investigators examined the physics of the situation? In the sense that a man of Rey's height and weight would have to have been in the position of a skydiver to make that hole and would need considerable velocity to penetrate the roof in that manner.

The one thing I would have done is calculate the lowest possible height that Rey would have been thrown from that could have created that level of damage. Then I would have calculated every possible origin point in that building and done a sweep of every apartment, office and condo in that range.

I believe if investigators had done this, there may have been more evidence uncovered leading to Rey's murderers.

Again, this all leads me back to the core of the case which is why the sudden lawyering up at Rey's job? That's 100% suspect and weird.

Why would they do that if they had nothing to do with the situation? I know that if I ended up dead, chances are my bosses and co-workers would immediately cooperate with a criminal investigation if the police launched an inquiry. In my experience, only guilty people lawyer up and initiate gag orders.

That's my take.

CBW

The one thing I would have done is calculate the lowest possible height that Rey would have been thrown from that could have created that level of damage. Then I would have calculated every possible origin point in that building and done a sweep of every apartment, office and condo in that range.



I can understand the show not wanting to independently investigate that angle to instead play up the mystery of how the fall is seemingly improbable, but it is unforgivable the police didn’t do just that. Like you said, he didn’t jump out of his own apartment in the Belvedere. It’s not a building you are just welcome to enter, let alone wander around.

What I cannot fathom is why no surveillance cameras recorded him. They only said the roof camera was inoperable.

The "suicide" crowd here is really stretching for that conclusion.

4) Who commits suicide by going to an expensive building with high levels of surveillance populated by people who clearly value their privacy and security? (I was born and raised in Baltimore, the folks who live in a place like the Belvedere aren't keen on people just walking into their building off the streets).


To ask the same question, why would someone commit murder in an expensive building with high levels of surveillance? If Rey was visiting someone then how did the person know that he didn't ask for their room number at the front desk? Wouldn't it stupid to kill someone in a hotel you're staying at knowing that the person could've been seen coming to your room or meeting up with you on camera?

Also no one recalls seeing Rey that night, so that means he didn't talk to anyone at the front desk and no one asked him any questions. It's possible he had been there before and he knew a blindspot to get in undetected.

A Redditor brought up a fascinating angle and I must give credit where it is due.

Stunned by Rey Rivera Clue that No One Seems to Discuss (https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/hj7w5c/stunned_by_rey_rivera_clue_that_no_one_seems_to/)

In short, the Redditor noted the similarities between Rey's death (also the note) and David Fincher's 1997 thriller "The Game (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119174/)". It has been nearly two decades since I saw "The Game" so it did not immediately spring to mind. But, the more I thought about it and given Rey's background of aspiring screenwriter/director, it fits, I think.

Thoughts?

{EDIT: Looks like everyone else caught "The Game" angle as well**

Side bar. This is the picture of the back of Rey's computer. Being something of a nerd (particularly, an Apple nerd) I immediately had this thought. This happened in 2006... if this is the back of an iMac (and it looks like it is) how is this from 2006? Apple didn't begin making the aluminum unibodybody iMac's until 2009.

Rey's computer:

https://i.ibb.co/170454B/IMG-0011.jpg

Standard aluminum unibody iMac:

https://assets.pcmag.com/media/images/571859-imac-pro-7.jpg?thumb=y

The simple answer could, it's not an iMac... and stop being such a nerd JM. :crazy:

if the company hadn't gone on lockdown.

Here's my view on it.. The company knows the answer. Either they are culpable or they know what drove him to suicide. Perhaps being caught up in something shady that they didn't know about and they're covering their own butts.

Them thinking they know what drove him to suicide is possible. If Rey was into something over his head then it's possible that he got some bad news and committed suicide and it made the company think it had something to do with them so they went on lockdown.

I do think it's possible that the investigation into Rey's death could've led to an investigation within the company and seeing that they were into something fraudulent, they didn't want that dug up so they kept their mouths shut.

If someone from the company did kill him, then why at an expensive hotel with security and cameras around? Wouldn't it dumb to push someone from your room given that you had multiple witnesses in other rooms?

It was also said that Rey was increasingly paranoid and acting strange, so he could've been suffering from psychosis.

To ask the same question, why would someone commit murder in an expensive building with high levels of surveillance? If Rey was visiting someone then how did the person know that he didn't ask for their room number at the front desk? Wouldn't it stupid to kill someone in a hotel you're staying at knowing that the person could've been seen coming to your room or meeting up with you on camera?

Also no one recalls seeing Rey that night, so that means he didn't talk to anyone at the front desk and no one asked him any questions. It's possible he had been there before and he knew a blindspot to get in undetected.

That's easy: the murderer either lives there or has accomplices in that complex. Which is why Rey went there to begin with.

There is zero evidence that he was in the tower of the Belvedere despite the improbablity that he could have entered completely undetected. I think that’s the most significant problem with assuming he jumped or fell from above.

My first thought when I saw that hole was it makes no sense that he effectively swan dived through the roof in that manner. The murder could have instead just taken place in that part of the building where he was found. The body was found in an unused conference room. Maybe the area was was accessible. Also, we can’t assume the hole (if this was staged) was created by people on the roof. It could have been opened up from inside the conference room. A close watcher from the apartments above could have seen someone breaking through from below, but it’s very probable no one is just starting out their window like that in the middle of the night that would catch that. The murder could then have thrown the glasses and the phone through the hole. Less likely to be damaged that way then falling from the tower.

Again, I would like to know more about the hole and the exact condition of the body. The idea he fell seems to break down the more I think about it.

That's easy: the murderer either lives there or has accomplices in that complex. Which is why Rey went there to begin with.

If you lived in a hotel room and wanted to kill someone by pushing them from your room, wouldn't you assume that they were on camera coming to your room or people saw them coming to your room? What if someone beside or below you said that his body came from your window?

Seems sloppy for someone from a big company wanting to keep someone quiet. We have to assume that no one saw Rey in the hotel that night as no one recalled seeing him, so that makes me believe that Rey knew a blindspot or just got lucky and walked straight to the roof and jumped

Okay so.. Rey's shins were broken right? That led the medical examiner to rule it as 'undetermined'; at least in part.

The one thing that wasn't mentioned and to me is a big, big deal is... did the medical examiner think Rey went into the roof below him head first or feet first?

If he went in head first (which, I presume would be obvious due to the head trauma) AND he had broken shins... yea, that's strange.

If, on the other hand, he went in feet first and had broken shins... that could easily be explained.

If you lived in a hotel room and wanted to kill someone by pushing them from your room, wouldn't you assume that they were on camera coming to your room or people saw them coming to your room? What if someone beside or below you said that his body came from your window?

Seems sloppy for someone from a big company wanting to keep someone quiet. We have to assume that no one saw Rey in the hotel that night as no one recalled seeing him, so that makes me believe that Rey knew a blindspot or just got lucky and walked straight to the roof and jumped

You make a good point, but I would wager that someone who lived in that building would either know how to circumvent the system or had some control of the security situation.

Remember, this was an upscale old hotel that got converted into luxury condos.

You'd be surprised how easy it is to commit crimes in wealthier places.

The most shocking thing of all is how many people in this thread have never seen The Game. Granted I’m a massive Fincher fanboy, but come on. :lol:

The most shocking thing of all is how many people in this thread have never seen The Game. Granted I’m a massive Fincher fanboy, but come on. :lol:

Right?? Such a great, underrated film! One of Fincher’s finest, IMO (though it will never come close to topping Se7en for me ;)). And an amazing score by Howard Shore (who also did Se7en).

I truly think like others do, this is a clear cut case of suicide. It appears to me that Rey’s mental illness got the best of him and he didn’t know how to tell anyone. It definitely is a common thing in this day and age. I feel horrible for his poor Wife, this has just absolutely shattered her.

Right?? Such a great, underrated film! One of Fincher’s finest, IMO (though it will never come close to topping Se7en for me ;)). And an amazing score by Howard Shore (who also did Se7en).

Agreed! :cool: Seven is a legitimate masterpiece, whereas The Game is more of a popcorn flick that you can nitpick if you want...but what a ride. I love it.
At gunpoint, though, I’d probably name Zodiac as his greatest work (but please, random gunmen, never make me make that Sophie’s choice).

1) The strange activity at Rey's home in the week before his death.

His alarm tripped back to back nights. The cops said it was a squirrel. I'm inclined to believe them. What the segment doesn't go into, which was widely reported at the time of his death, is that in the weeks and months leading up to his death, his behavior had become increasingly paranoid. He became super-possessive of his wife and wouldn't let her leave the house without him accompanying her. This wasn't just something that happened that spooked him a few days before his death, there was a pattern of escalating paranoia going on for months.

2) The bizarre behavior of the company he worked for immediately following his death. A company-wide gag order? Why?

Let's say you work for a company who is currently under investigation for a potential federal violation, and then a coworker from this company dies while not at work or on location. Do you think your company's lawyers would want you talking to the police? Hell, at my job, there is very specific wording in our employee handbook which says to not answer any questions from the media with regards to any questions involving our business, and to refer to them the company's attorney. This isn't as nefarious as people are making it out to be.

3) The illegal behavior of said company and how Rey's job was to run a propaganda operation to repair his friend's reputation.

This doesn't really mean anything one way or the other.

4) Who commits suicide by going to an expensive building with high levels of surveillance populated by people who clearly value their privacy and security? (I was born and raised in Baltimore, the folks who live in a place like the Belvedere aren't keen on people just walking into their building off the streets).

Born and raised in Baltimore, and it's easy to get into the Belvedere. People go there for lunch all the time. The Owl Bar is open to the public. This wasn't some venue that was super secret to get into. It would be more suspicious if his body was found at a Holiday Inn.

5) The note could be several things: a) something created by Rey as a code, b) something created by Rey's killers to make it look like he was a weirdo stuck on conspiracy theories, c) something that none of us can possibly understand - but its existence is truly bizarre and doesn't seem to fit the scenario of a suicide.

Rey's wife said she found scraps from the same paper next to the computer and that he wrote the note that day. So either Rey's killers got lucky enough to kill Rey on the day he was writing a stream of conscious note with some of his ideas down and taped it to the side of his computer, or Rey wrote the note as a coded goodbye to his friends and family. And if Rey's killers wrote the note and gained access to his house to tape it to the computer, why didn't the house guest hear them? The appearance of the note makes suicide much more likely.

But if the note is a) or b), then it stands to reason that someone had something to hide - either Rey himself or his killers putting it there to throw off investigators and deliberately create confusion.

This doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't his killers type a note of, "I'm sorry but I can't take the pain anymore. I love you, goodbye.", or some other variation of a "standard" suicide note? And why would they also repeatedly name Porter Stansberry in the note, if he was in fact involved with his death?

On a different subject, I wonder if the investigators examined the physics of the situation? In the sense that a man of Rey's height and weight would have to have been in the position of a skydiver to make that hole and would need considerable velocity to penetrate the roof in that manner.

Dr. Charles Tumosa (director of forensics at the University of Baltimore) was asked by Mikita Brottman (who wrote a book about Rey's death) and he said that his death could neither be accidental, or that someone pushed him. "I've never heard or seen a suicide take a running jump, but there would have to be a certain amount of propulsion. That leaves me with the impression that he took a dive off the building." They also determined that he was going approximately 11 mph before jumping off. There was also a case from the 1920's where a drunk man stood on a ledge and lept and was found 20+ feet away from the Belvedere. Every bone in his body was broken. And he had no running start, and jumped from the 8th floor. Something that the new segment featured in UM could have mentioned, but for reasons that are fairly obvious, chose not to do so.

They also could have mentioned that Rey left his computer running and that on the screen was a website checking the sunrise and sunset times of Baltimore City. And they could have mentioned how a lawn chair was found on the roof of the Belvedere.

Let's say you work for a company who is currently under investigation for a potential federal violation, and then a coworker from this company dies while not at work or on location. Do you think your company's lawyers would want you talking to the police? Hell, at my job, there is very specific wording in our employee handbook which says to not answer any questions from the media with regards to any questions involving our business, and to refer to them the company's attorney. This isn't as nefarious as people are making it out to be.

I agree. While Porter can come off as "shady" he did help with the search for him in the beginning. I know he offered what some consider low for him, but he did put up a $1000 reward, so it wasn't like he was completely hands off.

I think Porter's and the companies silence was obviously legal given how they were eventually found in fraud. I think them being quiet was more to protect them from anymore legal troubles than them being quiet about murder

One thing they didn't mention in the Unsolved Mysteries segment that I've read on the internet is that there was also a blank check taped with the note. No specifics as to whether it was signed by Rey, etc.

Agreed! :cool: Seven is a legitimate masterpiece, whereas The Game is more of a popcorn flick that you can nitpick if you want...but what a ride. I love it.
At gunpoint, though, I’d probably name Zodiac as his greatest work (but please, random gunmen, never make me make that Sophie’s choice).

ZODIAC is his best feature, I agree. I'm not trying to brag or anything (honest) but I saw SE7EN upon its release in theaters in 1995, actually three times, I think. Also THE GAME, at least once, maybe twice. PANIC ROOM, ZODIAC several times as well.

Streaming just cannot do justice to a great film and great filmmaking. Seeing a film projected, in the case of these, still when films were being exhibited in 35mm for general release; makes me nostalgic.

I digress...

ZODIAC is his best feature, I agree. I'm not trying to brag or anything (honest) but I saw SE7EN upon its release in theaters in 1995, actually three times, I think. Also THE GAME, at least once, maybe twice. PANIC ROOM, ZODIAC several times as well.

Streaming just cannot do justice to a great film and great filmmaking. Seeing a film projected, in the case of these, still when films were being exhibited in 35mm for general release; makes me nostalgic.

I digress...

And we haven’t even mentioned Fight Club yet! ;)

But yes, Zodiac is an amazing film. I just have a soft spot for Se7en, haha.

Glad I found this thread, took a lithe while to catch up and read the whole thing. If I overlooked something already mentioned, please forgive me. I, personally, cast my stone in the suicide bucket. First, I just want to touch on "he wasn't suicidal." Being prior military I have several friends that have committed suicide, and none of them were obviously suicidal or someone would have intervened to prevent it. I get the sentiment, though, it is very painful and you wish you could have prevented it. As far as the actual act goes, UM had the story of Sandra Orellana about a million years ago where they threw a dummy off of a balcony, the dummy didn't travel as far out as the hole in the roof was even when several grownn men threw it, and Rey was much larger. However, youtube hotel pool roof jump and those guys travel pretty far out there which leads me to believe jumping is possible. The medical examiner said the legs were broken oddly without saying what made it odd. But if that's the case they would've been broken before going off the roof so he would've had to have been thrown, which is virtually impossible. That would leave the helicopter theory, and honestly that is just way too involved! If you're trying to murder someone I'd assume you'd want to be inconspicuous, and helicopters definitely are not. They are big, loud and leave a paper trail. Random stranger and mugging gown wrong would've been more likely. The company being hush hush makes sense too. I've worked for companies that weren't under investigation that says if you're ever approached by the media you have no comment regarding. Heck, the company was under investigation and it's safe to assume that Rey was being investigated/ questioned as well. If he was already having mental health issues that could help push him over the edge. Mental health is a huge factor and unfortunately we'll never know what his mental health was. When it comes to the note it doesn't scream suicide note. But it isn't a sane letter to your mom letting her know how summer camp is going either. I don't believe it was an "in case of" note. If I was worried that something could happen to me and I had to leave a secret hidden note, it would be very very clear and specific. A man with mental health issues though, may leave a more jumbled confusing note, especially if they were follow conspiracy theories down rabbit holes, and it sounds like maybe with the free mason books that may have been happening. The last thing leading me there are the flip flops, oddly enough. If you've ever ran in flip flops it's almost guaranteed you ended up with the same scuff at the toe area. The toe drags (they're not secured to your feet like shoes) the sole gets dragged under itself and the top gets scuffed by the ground. My theory is like this; Rey moved to an new area following a close friend. He's given up almost everything he's known, now he has his wife and best friend in a place that's he isn't familiar with. Now the company that he works for is being investigated by the SEC (think that's who it is) and he being investigated. His friend he followed down this shady path is probably very aloof and he doesn't know many other people in the area. He draws into himself not wanting to drag his wife into it and starts feeding his own fears and devils. Not sure why he chose the Belvedere, maybe because of The Game connection, but he decided the only option that he has left was to end it all. He took his glasses and phone in his hands, ran down the ledge and jumped. It's very unfortunate what ever happened to him, regardless, I hope that his wife and family can remember the best aspects of him and carry them everyday.
Sorry it's so long, I'm not a great writer.

And we haven’t even mentioned Fight Club yet! ;)

But yes, Zodiac is an amazing film. I just have a soft spot for Se7en, haha.

Ahh yes... FIGHT CLUB... I've got definite opinions about it and none of them are positive. I had to see it twice to make sure my initial reaction wasn't unfair and if anything I think I was too generous.

Suffice to say, I think it's far from his strongest film. I'll leave it at that. :)

The "suicide" crowd here is really stretching for that conclusion.

I might agree if I didn't remember so well stories like that of Gail Delano. I brought her up earlier, but just a refresher, she was a mother who succumbed to major depression and staged her disappearance so she could commit suicide on the other side of the country without her family realizing it. She preferred for them to think she had simply gone missing, possibly being a victim of foul play, to spare them that guilt that comes with suicide survivors. She did this to the point of possibly faking a two hour long conversation with a potential beau.

Now, Rey. What's a bigger stretch to me?

Murder:
1. He "knew too much" about a company that was under investigation, but according to this scenario so did most of the people who worked there, if we're considering the building-wide gag order suspicious. Why kill Rey specifically? And generally people who "know too much" will leave their "knowledge" somewhere as an insurance policy, because everyone has "seen this movie".

You could argue he didn't think it was THAT dangerous, but we're including the phone call that panicked him as a clue to murder, so in this scenario, he would have been aware he was in danger. So either Rey did such a good job hiding his insurance policy that no one's found it, or he reverse-Alan Turing'd it by hiding it in a code that would take an Enigma to crack. Or maybe the bad guys somehow broke into his home the day of, found his insurance policy, took it, and replaced it with a rambling note to make him look insane?

2. The idea that the Belvedere doesn't make sense as a suicide location because of the security, the weird angle of the fall, etc.

So Rey, in his panicked state of rushing out of the house and parking in a rush by the hotel, willingly went along with the murderers to the roof of this hotel (when he's afraid of heights), thinking "sounds legit", and they were abl to throw this large guy in such a way that he left a "perfect" hole in the roof, either going straight head-first or feet-first. That means he's not flailing, not struggling, but dropping like a rock. Maybe he was unconscious? If we're saying 'no way he was able to jump far enough out to make that hole', then I'd say no way anyone but Andre the Giant is throwing a large, unconscious man far enough out either. Not to mention you'd need balls of brass to throw anyone, unconscious or not, off the edge of a roof, considering how easily the momentum of a throwing motion could send you right along with him. Or if he's not unconscious, how easily a man fighting for his life could throw you instead of him.

Okay, so maybe it wasn't the roof. Maybe it was that ledge. The ledge the show argued is too shallow for one man to easily traverse (and they brought up his size again here). But somehow, at least one man got out on that ledge with an unwilling, fully-grown man who's afraid of heights, and pushed him off. Or carried an unconscious man across this noticeably precarious ledge to throw him, and again, very luckily didn't tumble right along with him.

The problem with their arguments about how suicide was so impossible/unlikely because of the size of the ledge, or the distance he would have had to travel is that it goes double for murder. It's a hell of a lot harder to toss an unwilling/fighting or unconscious person than it is for them to jump.

And again, all this without anyone hearing anything? If you want to be covert, it's not that hard to do so. If Rey was brought to that roof against his will, someone's going to hear something. I will quote atomicfizz here:

Yeah, people are already incredulous that no one heard a single person doing something, if there had been all that hullabaloo that's even more strange that no one noticed or heard anything.

Now the security cameras. Stroke of bad luck they weren't working, or was the hotel in on it too now? One would think that if they just so happened to turn off that night, the show would have mentioned it, because that's a hell of a coincidence. On the other hand, anyone who's watched their fair share of shows like Forensic Files know how often these cameras are neglected or garbage quality. It happens. Or again, maybe the hotel was in on it too, and disabled the cameras for days before this happened, allowing them to stay turned off. Or turned them off the day of and no one brought it up.

3. Porter Stansberry. He's afraid of an SEC investigation but has no problem murdering his friend and letting the company look guilty as sin by lawyering up and issuing a building-wide gag order. And no one, not a single person, has gone Deep Throat and told what they know under anonymity. No Green Eyes either. To quote Ben Franklin: "Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead." But maybe Porter himself or one employee went rogue and did this him/herself and no one else knows about it. Or the company is very good at keeping secrets about murder, but not illegal financial dealings.

4. Rey's injuries and the glasses/phone that remained intact, as well as the missing money clip. As others have pointed out, him going feet-first could easily account for his broken shins. If he got them before he jumped, good luck jumping. If he got them before he was thrown, when? On the roof, where people would hear the screams of a man who's legs had just been broken? Before the roof, so the murder(s) had to drag him and his broken legs to the roof?

If he went feet first, it's not insane that his glasses ended up unscathed. The hole was already made by his body, so they rode his face and fell off onto the carpet. If this is unbelievable, what's the alternative? If he was thrown, the glasses would go with him anyway and if they can ride a thrown body without damage, they can ride a jumping man. But we already said it's unbelievable that they fell with him without damage. Okay, so after throwing Rey from wherever he was thrown, the murder(s) went down to his body (having no idea if anyone heard the crash of his body going through that roof) and planted the glasses and phone next to him, risking a hell of a lot to...stage a suicide...? Or they murdered him there, breaking his legs, giving him those massive injuries that weren't all described in detail (without being heard), made the hole (without being heard), and then left the glasses and cell phone that they somehow had in their possession neatly next to his body. Maybe the cellphone fell out during the struggle, but if it's unbelievable that glasses couldn't survive a fall intact, are they going to survive a beating and struggle (which also makes me wonder how they stayed on his body without damage in this struggle and roof toss)?

Cell phone, same thing. Did it stay in his pocket during the jump/fall and either way, it survived falling out of his pocket without damage, or did someone take the time to go plant it after, spending more time with the body?

Now the money clip. They took it to be *******s? A souvenir? It wasn't to deliver it to anyone who may have hired them to murder as proof, because the body is pretty good proof that it's done. I don't know why it was brought up as proof of any sort of nefarious doings, because who wanted it?



SUICIDE
In this scenario, let's assume Rey was mentally ill. There's those stories about his paranoia and changing moods that people have brought up in previous posts, some of which weren't mentioned in the show. But even his wife brought up his changing behavior, although she attributes this to his fear of "knowing too much". First of all, for UM fans, how many times have we heard that? A missing person or suicide victim is shown in a segment, and here's the family saying he/she knew too much, saw/heard something they weren't supposed to, and no one ever seems to be able to say what that could be (sometimes there's a theory or two), but it's consistently brought up as a reason for murder to the point that I admittedly take it with a grain of salt unless there's some evidence to back it up other than the death itself.

So in this scenario, Ray is depressed, maybe also scared he'll be implicated in the SEC investigation. He's given up on his dream of being a screenwriter, he's apparently in a city where he doesn't want to be, and he believes his friend, who he moved for, is going to get him in some serious trouble. But he loves his wife. He loves his family. Like Gail Delano, he doesn't want them to live with the guilt of his suicide.

And he's creative. He's seen the movies and shows we've seen, with the staged suicides and trail of clues. So he creates a rambling, mysterious, "coded" note (those are sheer gold in mysteries, we LOVE weird notes). He gets a phone call. As freakbook suggested:

I wouldn't be surprised if it was an innocent phone call or he called someone there and they called him back and he made a big deal out of it to fool the housemate

Now we have a mysterious letter AND a mysterious phone call. It's a YouTube true crime channel dream.

He goes to the hotel. It's near his office and he knows it. Same luck the murderers had, the security cameras aren't working. He goes to the roof and he jumps. drew790 posted this photo, and I don't know why it wasn't suggested as a theory, because it doesn't seem to be as far to go in mid-air:

https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=255278&stc=1&d=1593630526

He lands feet-first, breaking his legs, his glasses tumbling off, his cell phone falling out of his pocket. The flip flops get scuffed in the fall (and possibly the run up to the jump), one of the straps snaps as he's going through the roof. No one hears a struggle because there wasn't one. No one hears him go through the roof because no one heard it when he was murdered either.

And the money clip. Maybe he felt guilty about the pain his wife was going to be going through, and couldn't keep it with him, so he tossed it and no one checked the trash cans/noticed a money clip/he threw it out at a gas station or something before he got there. Maybe it's another "clue". We've heard that before too: He/she never went anywhere without it, and it's missing. That means bad things happened.

Hell, maybe he's angry at Porter. Maybe he wanted to involve him the same way Porter may have involved him in the financial dealings. Maybe it's a middle finger to the fact that he moved, gave up his dreams, and turned his life upside down to work for the guy and ended up miserable. Suicides don't always make sense, because it can come from a place of deep pain and irrational logic.

And now I've rambled WAY too long, but whatever. I'm at home, in isolation on the 4th, and have nothing better to do. In summary, I think the murder theory sounds like a movie (Fincher) because it was supposed to. The guy was a writer. Unless more evidence surfaces, I believe this was a tragic death that he intentionally made look suspicious to protect his family and maybe even leave his mark in a way he was unable to when he tried to pursue his dream.

Pardon my ignorance but has it ever been released whether or not Rey landed head first or feet first?

I don't recall it being mentioned in the episode.

Pardon my ignorance but has it ever been released whether or not Rey landed head first or feet first?

I don't recall it being mentioned in the episode.

I don't believe it was mentioned either, but a lot of his injuries weren't described in detail. The guy who found him said it was horrible. It could very well be that his head was a complete mess, implying he went head first and that's why the broken shins don't make sense, but they just didn't specify.

I might agree if I didn't remember so well stories like that of Gail Delano.

Brilliant that you brought up Gail Delano. Another suicide we would all be shouting "murder" if the forensic administrator never called in after watching UM.

People think it's far-fetched that he would type a note and then jump to his death, but look at Gail. Not only did she fake a phone call infront of her sons, but she bothered to misplace her items (purse, keys etc) to make it look like a robbery/kidnapping gone wrong and she even flew out of state to a hotel to commit suicide. Reason? so people wouldn't think that she committed suicide, and I think that this applies to Rey as well.

My point is that alot of suicides don't make sense because we have no idea what the person went through mentally. Some people are depressed, and some some people suffer from an undiagnosed mental illness.

I think the note is the smoking gun that says it was a suicide made to look like a suspicious murder. I understand Rey had alot of similar notes that were "film reels" or random scribblings, but why did he tape this one behind a computer monitor? I think he mean't for the note to be found eventually, but not right away. I think he wanted his wife to discover the note after he died, because at that point it would look suspicious. Also, if thenote wasn't mean't to be found and was for his personal viewings then why did he shrink the text down so small?

Apparently a woman who lived in the hotel wrote a book about Rey's death. I downloaded it on Amazon for $4.00. She has a lot of interesting info. in the book that is not readily available on the internet.

I'm only halfway through, but she knows details like what snack he ate that day before he left (sour cream and onion chips and sparkling grapefruit soda) and what is in his autopsy report (the injuries are gruesome), which confirms he landed feet-first.

It's called "An Unexplained Death" by Mikita Brottman, if anyone is interested.

Apparently a woman who lived in the hotel wrote a book about Rey's death. I downloaded it on Amazon for $4.00. She has a lot of interesting info. in the book that is not readily available on the internet.

I'm only halfway through, but she knows details like what snack he ate that day before he left (sour cream and onion chips and sparkling grapefruit soda) and what is in his autopsy report (the injuries are gruesome), which confirms he landed feet-first.

It's called "An Unexplained Death" by Mikita Brottman, if anyone is interested.

Thanks for posting this -- I'm very interested to hear your full review. The online reviews were mixed, but it sounds like an interesting read.

To me, this case is a mash-up for David Stone, Charles Morgan, and Rae Ann Mosser.

We have the note which has shades of David Stone and Charles Morgan. Was it a suicide note, clues to the guilty, something else, or just gibberish?

And the Rae Ann Mosser part: So much points to suicide and I could easily believe that... but the physics don't work. Rae Ann Mosser could not have fired that shotgun with her arm. So someone else did, or it went off by accident. Rey Rivera could very well be a suicide and that is the Occam's Razor answer, except there is no logical jumping point. That doesn't mean he didn't jump off the Belvedere, but there is no logical place. I could believe the running start theory except it still doesn't seem physically possible based on what we've seen.

From the UM story, it was easy to get into the Belvedere but seems like it would have been very difficult to access the roof as doors were locked. I'm curious what other points could be accessed by the public, and if any of those have windows or doors that open.

So much points to suicide and I could easily believe that... but the physics don't work. Rae Ann Mosser could not have fired that shotgun with her arm. So someone else did, or it went off by accident. Rey Rivera could very well be a suicide and that is the Occam's Razor answer, except there is no logical jumping point. That doesn't mean he didn't jump off the Belvedere, but there is no logical place. I could believe the running start theory except it still doesn't seem physically possible based on what we've seen.

I am not arguing whatsoever, but if you think he was murdered then where do you think the murderer threw him from?

I am not arguing whatsoever, but if you think he was murdered then where do you think the murderer threw him from?

Not sure on that either. This is sort of a Sherlock Holmes "if you can eliminate everything else, that what remains must be the truth" kind of thing.

At this point, I'm really curious if he got a running jump off of the parking garage and leapt, because he was being chased or thought he was. 20 feet is not an insignificant height (think of jumping off a two-story house). If he got a running start and propelled himself off the top, I would think he would have enough momentum to go out 20 feet, and a guy that big would have a lot of momentum down, so he could have gone through the roof if it wasn't in the best condition. That would explain why he landed feet first (he was trying to stick the landing) and how he wound up where he did. The phone and glasses could have bounced away with relatively less damage.

I'm not positive of the physics of this either, but this would make a lot more sense than jumping off of or out of the Belvedere.

I'm mixed on the note. I wonder if he wasn't planning on something regarding the Freemasons because he keeps mentioning "the council" and refers to the game which could be the movie, or could be an initiation of some kind. I still think it's very possible it was a coded message for himself or someone else (not his wife). As for the suicide jump, people don't typically land feet first from very high altitudes, so I'm also curious if that was even really possible. If it is, that would point to suicide because it would be intentional versus flailing in a panic.

The UM episode slants toward murder and they don't mention some relevant things that point to suicide. So I could believe suicide IF we could figure out how he got where he did.

So right now I'm solidly on the fence...

At this point, I'm really curious if he got a running jump off of the parking garage and leapt, because he was being chased or thought he was.

Good post, Todd. Definitely a confusing case but something has been bothering me. I see people theorizing about him jumping or being throw from the parking garage, but why didn't he park there? Why did he park in a parking lot near the hotel and not the garage if he had a reason to be there?

I see people theorizing about him jumping or being throw from the parking garage, but why didn't he park there? Why did he park in a parking lot near the hotel and not the garage if he had a reason to be there?

That's a good question, too. Unless he was meeting someone up there and decided to walk up, but yeah... that adds to the confusion.

I saw on another site some people theorized he was on the parking garage and got hit by a car intentionally, as if someone wanted him dead. People can fly 50 feet or so in the air if they are hit. That also might explain his horrible leg injuries. But again, I'm not sure of the physics of him going through the roof like that. May not be possible but another good theory.

I saw on another site some people theorized he was on the parking garage and got hit by a car intentionally, as if someone wanted him dead. People can fly 50 feet or so in the air if they are hit. That also might explain his horrible leg injuries. But again, I'm not sure of the physics of him going through the roof like that. May not be possible but another good theory.

If he got hit by a car with such force then I wonder if his flip flops would've stayed on his feet? They were found by his body so I wonder if they would've stayed on his feet after getting hit that hard by a car

I live in Baltimore. I have had relatives who stayed at The Belvedere. I've been to The Belvedere.

Baltimore has a reputation for violence - just about all of it is targeted. It is very rare an innocent gets in the way and gets gunned-down.

He was into something. Knowing Baltimore - drugs. It was targeted.

It is rare someone just gets gunned down out the blue. It doesn't happen that way.

I live in Baltimore. I have had relatives who stayed at The Belvedere. I've been to The Belvedere.

Baltimore has a reputation for violence - just about all of it is targeted. It is very rare an innocent gets in the way and gets gunned-down.

He was into something. Knowing Baltimore - drugs. It was targeted.

It is rare someone just gets gunned down out the blue. It doesn't happen that way.

He didn't get shot, but I agree with your overall sentiment.

I'll take it one step further - my theory is that his friend's company was deeply involved in some shady money laundering scheme or other financial fraud that was connected to Baltimore's drug scene.

Rey stumbled across this information, probably not believing it was real because most of us would laugh if we discovered our bosses were involved in real-world gangster finance and then got in way over his head.

Someone in the Belvedere knows exactly what happened. Someone in his friend's company knows everything because they were likely the perpetrators. Doubtful that they'd get their hands dirty, so it could have been a murder-for-hire deliberately made to seem like a bizarre suicide.

I've seen stranger things (no pun).

Thanks for posting this -- I'm very interested to hear your full review. The online reviews were mixed, but it sounds like an interesting read.

To be honest, I read it in a couple of hours, it is almost 300 pages, but I skimmed through to read only the parts about Rey. There are other suicide stories intermixed, I skipped over those.

I found it very interesting, the author actually talked to most of the participants involved, such as Allison, employees of the Belvedere (since she lives there, she knew almost everyone that worked there), she even went into the room where Rey had fallen through - on the same day his body was recovered; they had left the door propped open to air out the smell.

The author had access to a lot of the police info also; she said when she showed Rey's widow, even Allison had not seen some of that paperwork.

If there is anything specific you wanted to know, I can answer if it was in the book or not. :)

Good post, Todd. Definitely a confusing case but something has been bothering me. I see people theorizing about him jumping or being throw from the parking garage, but why didn't he park there? Why did he park in a parking lot near the hotel and not the garage if he had a reason to be there?
The theory in the book I referenced is that the car was parked there after 6pm because the lot attendant leaves at that time and he was positive Rey's car wasn't there when he left. Because it is an open lot, after 6pm you don't have to pay for parking; so free parking as opposed to having to pay in the garage, I assume.

Which, now that I am thinking about that, if Rey himself actually parked the car and was going to commit suicide, why would he care about free parking? Hmmm...

Which, now that I am thinking about that, if Rey himself actually parked the car and was going to commit suicide, why would he care about free parking? Hmmm...

That's if you assume that he went to the garage area. If he didn't go to the garage, then he'd have no reason to park there.

That's why I question the theories about him getting hit by a vehicle in the garage area.

Is it possible the parking garage could have been full when he tried to park there earlier? That could be why he parked somewhere else and ended up back at the parking garage to maybe meet someone?

Is it possible the parking garage could have been full when he tried to park there earlier? That could be why he parked somewhere else and ended up back at the parking garage to maybe meet someone?

If he was even there to begin with. There's no evidence that he was, but I've seen theories stating he was hit by a car in the garage.

If the garage wasn't full, then I think it hurts that theory a little.

After watching the first new UM episode, I think Rey Rivera's death is a tragic suicide.

Here's why:

1. Rey was in obvious financial trouble. He was a failed screenwriter who was now a part-time videographer and newsletter writer. That's totally fine for someone who is maybe 25 and kickin' it around LA sleeping on friend's couches and what not, but this was a guy who lived in a HUGE house on the East Coast. (How did they afford their lifestyle? That house was gigantic!)

2. Rey's personality and mental state at the time. As someone who loves writing, in my opinion the "writer" type of personality is often prone to depression and unproductive dreaminess. The type of person who attempts becoming a screenwriter in LA tends to be the same type of person who feels their life is over when that doesn't work out.

In addition, someone mentioned in a Reddit post that in the book written about Rey's death, that he had visited a Freemason lodge earlier that day. Rey's wife said he was interested in "secret societies" but gave no more additional info. His rambling note, interest in Freemasons, potential paranoia regarding the house alarm....I sense an Elisa Lam-type scenario here.

2. Rey pinged my gaydar a little bit. Here is this super-handsome guy married to an average-looking woman; it's obvious she is the breadwinner so your typical gender roles are inverted a little. He told his wife "thank you for loving me," which is kind of the thing you'd expect someone who grew up in a religious environment to say to their straight spouse if they were wrestling with some sort of inner turmoil (perhaps not being completely straight?)

The show said he was super close w/ his male best friend and it was also clear that Rey's family was likely religious. Just from the video clip of Rey's wedding, I didn't see romantic chemistry between him and the wife but rather friendship chemistry, if that makes any sense. (The above is all pure speculation, I realize none of these elements are a smoking gay gun but put together in the context of a possible suicide...I think they're worth exploring.)

3. If someone murdered Rey, why would they go through all the trouble of the most convoluted staged setup ever? Why not just shoot him and dump the body in the woods, or the ocean? There's even easier ways to fake a suicide than a fake jump off a building, as we know from watching UM!

3. Porter Stansberry may be just a douchey red herring. Rey may have been ashamed of his association with Porter -- first he's a failed screenwriter, and now he's worked for this douchey scammer which is going to be a black mark on Rey's resume. Rey wanted a family, according to the wife, so how was he going to support children with that type of professional background? If I were in Rey's shoes I'd be extremely worried.

As far as Porter immediately lawyering up, that's not at all unusual in the corporate world. Porter had tons of legal trouble already -- the LAST thing he'd want would be to be associated with the suspicious death of his friend.

As per classic UM, the show tended to shroud his death in mystery but in my opinion, the occam's razor solution is that Rey was in over his head financially, his career hadn't worked out, his former friend was outed as a fraud, he was possibly having a mental break, and he ended his life in a particularly dramatic fashion.

He told his wife "thank you for loving me," which is kind of the thing you'd expect someone who grew up in a religious environment to say to their straight spouse if they were wrestling with some sort of inner turmoil (perhaps not being completely straight?)

I caught that too. It's also possible that he married her for money. Pretty much saying "thanks" when someone says they love you is cold. I got the feeling he didn't care for her in a romantic way. Either married her for money, or like you said as a "beard" to appease his religious family

Here is this super-handsome guy married to an average-looking woman...

Insensitive much? Keep in mind there is a very likely chance Rey’s Wife and family will visit this board and thread at some point.

And FWIW, I think Rey’s Wife is a beautiful woman whose life has been shattered by what happened to the love of her life. The pain she is suffering is immeasurable and that is more than evident in the segment.

Insensitive much? Keep in mind there is a very likely chance Rey’s Wife and family will visit this board and thread at some point.

And FWIW, I think Rey’s Wife is a beautiful woman whose life has been shattered by what happened to the love of her life. The pain she is suffering is immeasurable and that is more than evident in the segment.

Not only is it insensitive but it's total BS. Who is he/she to say she's an average looking woman? I never thought that at all thru the segment. The hubris to think "He must be gay because I don't think she's as hot as he is" is something else.

ZODIAC is his best feature, I agree. I'm not trying to brag or anything (honest) but I saw SE7EN upon its release in theaters in 1995, actually three times, I think. Also THE GAME, at least once, maybe twice. PANIC ROOM, ZODIAC several times as well.


So did I, my friend. Good times. :cheers:

I caught that too. It's also possible that he married her for money. Pretty much saying "thanks" when someone says they love you is cold. I got the feeling he didn't care for her in a romantic way. Either married her for money, or like you said as a "beard" to appease his religious family

Or he was feeling insecure at the time and was grateful she could love him when he was feeling low about himself.

Or he was feeling insecure at the time and was grateful she could love him when he was feeling low about himself.

Perhaps. He still could've said an "I love you too" after that though

Again, I would like to know more about the hole and the exact condition of the body. The idea he fell seems to break down the more I think about it.

In my opinion, UM purposely left out a lot of these details because they want you to believe it could have been a murder. After reading the extent of Rey's injuries, the size and appearance of the hole from inside the room and the physicist's explanation of how jumping feet first would mean landing feet first, I lean heavily towards suicide. Being afraid of heights makes that even more logical for me, if you are afraid of heights, are you going to jump head first? I doubt it.

After watching the first new UM episode, I think Rey Rivera's death is a tragic suicide.

Here's why:

1. Rey was in obvious financial trouble. He was a failed screenwriter who was now a part-time videographer and newsletter writer. That's totally fine for someone who is maybe 25 and kickin' it around LA sleeping on friend's couches and what not, but this was a guy who lived in a HUGE house on the East Coast. (How did they afford their lifestyle? That house was gigantic!)

2. Rey's personality and mental state at the time. As someone who loves writing, in my opinion the "writer" type of personality is often prone to depression and unproductive dreaminess. The type of person who attempts becoming a screenwriter in LA tends to be the same type of person who feels their life is over when that doesn't work out.

In addition, someone mentioned in a Reddit post that in the book written about Rey's death, that he had visited a Freemason lodge earlier that day. Rey's wife said he was interested in "secret societies" but gave no more additional info. His rambling note, interest in Freemasons, potential paranoia regarding the house alarm....I sense an Elisa Lam-type scenario here.

2. Rey pinged my gaydar a little bit. Here is this super-handsome guy married to an average-looking woman; it's obvious she is the breadwinner so your typical gender roles are inverted a little. He told his wife "thank you for loving me," which is kind of the thing you'd expect someone who grew up in a religious environment to say to their straight spouse if they were wrestling with some sort of inner turmoil (perhaps not being completely straight?)

The show said he was super close w/ his male best friend and it was also clear that Rey's family was likely religious. Just from the video clip of Rey's wedding, I didn't see romantic chemistry between him and the wife but rather friendship chemistry, if that makes any sense. (The above is all pure speculation, I realize none of these elements are a smoking gay gun but put together in the context of a possible suicide...I think they're worth exploring.)

3. If someone murdered Rey, why would they go through all the trouble of the most convoluted staged setup ever? Why not just shoot him and dump the body in the woods, or the ocean? There's even easier ways to fake a suicide than a fake jump off a building, as we know from watching UM!

3. Porter Stansberry may be just a douchey red herring. Rey may have been ashamed of his association with Porter -- first he's a failed screenwriter, and now he's worked for this douchey scammer which is going to be a black mark on Rey's resume. Rey wanted a family, according to the wife, so how was he going to support children with that type of professional background? If I were in Rey's shoes I'd be extremely worried.

As far as Porter immediately lawyering up, that's not at all unusual in the corporate world. Porter had tons of legal trouble already -- the LAST thing he'd want would be to be associated with the suspicious death of his friend.

As per classic UM, the show tended to shroud his death in mystery but in my opinion, the occam's razor solution is that Rey was in over his head financially, his career hadn't worked out, his former friend was outed as a fraud, he was possibly having a mental break, and he ended his life in a particularly dramatic fashion.
Holy crap not only was that a horribly insensitive comment about her looks, but flat out wrong. I hope you're called out by more people too and your standards are downright weird to say the least.

I will say this though, from watching the show and from further reading online, the marriage seemed a little off. That comment about "thank you for loving me" is interesting to say the least. In such a complex case, what, if any, marriage issues he had that possibly played a role in his death is still something I can't quite put my finger on

Just from the video clip of Rey's wedding, I didn't see romantic chemistry between him and the wife but rather friendship chemistry, if that makes any sense.

No, that doesn’t make any sense. You gleaned that nugget of wisdom from the combined 20 or so seconds of wedding video footage they showed in the episode? :rolleyes:

,

The “The Game” connection/theory is now making the news:

https://www.newsweek.com/unsolved-mysteries-rey-rivera-note-letter-clues-game-netflix-1515283?_gl=1*kh4uyy*_ga*Wml1bmozbW1Lc3ltQ1A5aHpGdGtCTERHSHVEUG9Ud1ZnUzMwTDlZLWd4bHM0MURsa1V5YUJWX2dGblhXUXQyaw..

So did I, my friend. Good times. :cheers:

I agree that "Zodiac" is his best feature (the lakeside attack scene is the most scared that I have ever been in the cinema) - though it bombed at the box office and, incredibly, was not even nominated for a single Oscar (not even costume or production design).

I remember seeing "7even" when it came out - I liked it at the time, though it has a despairing nihilism that I now find a real turn off.

I love (LOVE!) the first hour of "Fight Club" (it may well be my favourite 60 mins of cinema ever) though the movie goes a bit off the rails after that.

As for recent work - I really enjoyed "the Social Network" (Tarantino named it the best film of the 2010s) while "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo" and "Gone Girl" were the best movies he could probably make out of some very second-rate source material.

The “The Game” connection/theory is now making the news:

https://www.newsweek.com/unsolved-mysteries-rey-rivera-note-letter-clues-game-netflix-1515283?_gl=1*kh4uyy*_ga*Wml1bmozbW1Lc3ltQ1A5aHpGdGtCTERHSHVEUG9Ud1ZnUzMwTDlZLWd4bHM0MURsa1V5YUJWX2dGblhXUXQyaw..

Yep, sad. Terrible that he died that way but I don't think he was killed.

And lol at SheRaaa and the backlash

And lol at SheRaaa and the backlash

By definition, most people are....average-looking?

I'm definitely average-looking, I wouldn't take that as an insult at all! It's simply an observation.

In this instance, it's an observation about the state of his marriage which is directly relevant to him potentially committing suicide.

As a result of the question "did he or didn't he commit suicide," you start to look at his life, his relationships, and you can't help but observe:

1. He was in financial trouble and his career was not taking off.
2. His wife was gushing about her love for him, but you didn't see a lot of evidence going the other way (of course this could be left out of the UM segment, as well all know Rey is dead so he can't exactly speak for himself, but this was just the impression that I got reading between the lines.)
3. Rey was very handsome, married to an average-looking woman (yep, I said it)
4. Rey's mother was wearing a huge cross in her interview, and Rey's family is from a culture that is traditionally not super enthused about homosexuality
5. Rey's wife was obviously comfortable leaving Rey with a female houseguest while she, the breadwinner, went on a business trip
6. It was mentioned several times that Rey was extremely close with his good friend Porter
7. It was also mentioned that Rey was into secret societies. Typically, secret societies are composed of all-male members and would be a great place to...forge relationships that you would want to remain secret

If you look through the Reddit threads on this case, I'm not the only one whose gaydar started pinging at this segment.

I feel like this segment could be included on one of the best Sitcoms Online UM threads, "Eluded homosexual and/or extramarital affairs...." :lol:

By definition, most people are....average-looking?

I'm definitely average-looking, I wouldn't take that as an insult at all! It's simply an observation.

In this instance, it's an observation about the state of his marriage which is directly relevant to him potentially committing suicide.

As a result of the question "did he or didn't he commit suicide," you start to look at his life, his relationships, and you can't help but observe:

1. He was in financial trouble and his career was not taking off.
2. His wife was gushing about her love for him, but you didn't see a lot of evidence going the other way (of course this could be left out of the UM segment, as well all know Rey is dead so he can't exactly speak for himself, but this was just the impression that I got reading between the lines.)
3. Rey was very handsome, married to an average-looking woman (yep, I said it)
4. Rey's mother was wearing a huge cross in her interview, and Rey's family is from a culture that is traditionally not super enthused about homosexuality
5. Rey's wife was obviously comfortable leaving Rey with a female houseguest while she, the breadwinner, went on a business trip
6. It was mentioned several times that Rey was extremely close with his good friend Porter
7. It was also mentioned that Rey was into secret societies. Typically, secret societies are composed of all-male members and would be a great place to...forge relationships that you would want to remain secret

If you look through the Reddit threads on this case, I'm not the only one whose gaydar started pinging at this segment.

I feel like this segment could be included on one of the best Sitcoms Online UM threads, "Eluded homosexual and/or extramarital affairs...." :lol:

I know what you were trying to say, so I'm not mad at you at all. Fletch has a point that she might see this though

My average-looking theory:

Here you have a guy who is not too far into a new marriage. He's grateful for his loving wife but he's searching for more -- an escape, maybe, from the demands of the corporate world. He wanted to be a screenwriter in L.A., that didn't work out. He's still got ideas, projects he could bring to fruition if he could just get a break. He documents them in notes and tapes them to his computer -- inspiration for later. He's got big dreams but as time ticks by, he realizes they may not come true.

Finally Rey decides to suck it up and just work for the corporate world. He's doing ok but then Porter, his own good friend, royally screws things up for Rey and that is the final straw.

Does Rey dare tell his family who he really is, what he really wants to do? They might not accept it.

Does Rey tell his wife? No, he can't break her heart and he does want a family.

As a last-ditch effort, he starts getting into "bizarre" things like secret societies. Maybe he could live a double life, get everything he wanted? Maybe he could meet people who shared his dreams? He goes to the Freemasons lodge; maybe it's not what he expected. Maybe it's just as mundane as everything else.

Under immense financial and emotional pressure, Rey decides he has only one way out.

My average-looking theory:

Here you have a guy who is not too far into a new marriage. He's grateful for his loving wife but he's searching for more -- an escape, maybe, from the demands of the corporate world. He wanted to be a screenwriter in L.A., that didn't work out. He's still got ideas, projects he could bring to fruition if he could just get a break. He documents them in notes and tapes them to his computer -- inspiration for later. He's got big dreams but as time ticks by, he realizes they may not come true.

Finally Rey decides to suck it up and just work for the corporate world. He's doing ok but then Porter, his own good friend, royally screws things up for Rey and that is the final straw.

Does Rey dare tell his family who he really is, what he really wants to do? They might not accept it.

Does Rey tell his wife? No, he can't break her heart and he does want a family.

As a last-ditch effort, he starts getting into "bizarre" things like secret societies. Maybe he could live a double life, get everything he wanted? Maybe he could meet people who shared his dreams? He goes to the Freemasons lodge; maybe it's not what he expected. Maybe it's just as mundane as everything else.

Under immense financial and emotional pressure, Rey decides he has only one way out.

What does this have to do with her looking average though? If she was beautiful (I'm not saying she isn't), and on Rey's level of looks wouldn't the outcome still be the same since he's (by your theory) a closeted homosexual who's struggling being his true self?

Who decides she is average looking? I don't think she is at all. This all starts from a BS claim that somebody else decides on. "He might be gay because I don't think her wife is hot and I think he is so therefore that's how things are". Not to mention the "I don't think they are in love because he didn't express it in a 2 minute video and she said it but I (person who already think she's too out of his league) don't buy it". Feel however you think like but it super arrogant to think your opinion is something besides that and a case should start from that.

Who decides she is average looking? I don't think she is at all.

While I don't think the "average-looking" theory makes any sense, if Sheraaa thinks she is average-looking then so be it. It's insensitive to say on a board where she might see it, but it's his/her opinion. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, Sheraaa has every right to think she is average.

a. i think the wife is attractive. not sure how that blew up like it did.

b. the idea that the crime scene was staged (or any suspected conspiracy related crime scene for that matter) just doesn't make any sense.

If they wanted to kill Rey, they would just kill him.

Shoot him, strangle him, whatever - but they would do it in his car or in an alley.

Why would their plan be to drag him to the roof and throw him off in public infront of all those windows? They killed him, left him in the room and then made the hole? If they are staging the crime scene, why even leave the cell and glasses there - what does that accomplish? Doing all that stuff just over complicates things. No one is going to do that for some random murder because it makes zero sense.

FBI report (https://imgur.com/a/l7oUpZE#6NZpXXi) was released over on reddit. My love for the UM reboot is dwindling every day considering the information they conveniently left out. They concluded that Rey was most likely suffering from bipolar disorder. Also, Rey was a frequent guest at the Belvedere, and was friendly with two bartenders (who worked at a bar located on the 13th floor). These same bartenders...would smoke on the roof. It also says that Porter Stansberry offered a $1,000 reward to locate Rey before his body was found. Rey also told someone, "that he believed the Church of Scientology ran the west coast film industry and the Masons ran the east coast film industry."

I have no idea why these true crime shows just can't be honest about cases that they are presenting.

Perhaps. He still could've said an "I love you too" after that though


I think this is being overly critical of a one-time exchange. Rey might have even thought that too - but then too much time had passed and it'd be weird at that point.

Depending on the person, hearing "thank you for loving me" might mean more than a reflexive "I love you too".

We have the benefit of looking at it and deciding what the appropriate/perfect exchange would be, the humans involved in the convo in the moment did not.

FBI report (https://imgur.com/a/l7oUpZE#6NZpXXi) was released over on reddit. My love for the UM reboot is dwindling every day considering the information they conveniently left out. They concluded that Rey was most likely suffering from bipolar disorder. Also, Rey was a frequent guest at the Belvedere, and was friendly with two bartenders (who worked at a bar located on the 13th floor). These same bartenders...would smoke on the roof. It also says that Porter Stansberry offered a $1,000 reward to locate Rey before his body was found. Rey also told someone, "that he believed the Church of Scientology ran the west coast film industry and the Masons ran the east coast film industry."

I have no idea why these true crime shows just can't be honest about cases that they are presenting.

I think the mysterious part of this case is his friend clamming up - he wouldn't even talk to Rey's widow. WHAT.

Stansberry then (and now) released very consipiracy-heavy newsletters. There's no way they weren't aware of Rey starting to believe what he wrote for his friend's business. I imagine they are at least partly liable and were aware of something in that last phone call, but were silenced so Stansberry didn't have to pay out to Rey's family. They were just coming out of one scandal and didn't need another one. It's also possible that his friend said/did something to purposefully trigger an event with Rey so he could fire him but it backfired with Rey committing suicide instead.

FBI report (https://imgur.com/a/l7oUpZE#6NZpXXi) was released over on reddit. My love for the UM reboot is dwindling every day considering the information they conveniently left out. They concluded that Rey was most likely suffering from bipolar disorder. Also, Rey was a frequent guest at the Belvedere, and was friendly with two bartenders (who worked at a bar located on the 13th floor). These same bartenders...would smoke on the roof. It also says that Porter Stansberry offered a $1,000 reward to locate Rey before his body was found. Rey also told someone, "that he believed the Church of Scientology ran the west coast film industry and the Masons ran the east coast film industry."

I have no idea why these true crime shows just can't be honest about cases that they are presenting.

Yep, open and shut case. The only "weird" thing was Porter not talking. But he did help with the search so it's obvious he was quiet because of business, not because he murdered him.

I think the mysterious part of this case is his friend clamming up - he wouldn't even talk to Rey's widow. WHAT.

I wouldn't either if this person was accusing me (directly or indirectly) of being involved with her husband's death.

I have no idea why these true crime shows just can't be honest about cases that they are presenting.

Agree! When you look at all the info. in this case (not just what was shown on UM), in my opinion, it seems most likely it was a suicide. If I went by just the UM episode and didn't research on my own, I would definitely believe it could have been a murder.

And his friend and colleague is getting harrassed, being threatened, etc. since it has aired. Yes, he may be an immoral businessman and scam artist, but now being pegged as a murderer because of an incomplete show is wrong.

Would it be UM without the closeted homosexual theories?

I don't share that view. I don't believe he was pushed or thrown off the building either. This was a populated hotel (possible witnesses) and if the phone call was a setup they couldn't have known he didn't tell anyone where or who he was meeting. The person who called didn't even hide where they were calling from (Stansberry offices). If it was murder they were incredibly lucky amateurs.

The Porter guy acted shady but thats because he and his business ARE shady. He probably didn't want feds poking their nose around as he was already in enough trouble.

While I don't think the "average-looking" theory makes any sense, if Sheraaa thinks she is average-looking then so be it. It's insensitive to say on a board where she might see it, but it's his/her opinion. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, Sheraaa has every right to think she is average.

I finished it with that point, that she can think she's whatever she is but it's total hubris to start as a case on a totally personal opinion. Her opinion of her being average looking isn't more valid than a person who doesn't agree and yet the whole things starts from acting like it's a fact that "He's is out of her league so he must be gay and that could be why he killed himself".

FBI report (https://imgur.com/a/l7oUpZE#6NZpXXi) was released over on reddit. My love for the UM reboot is dwindling every day considering the information they conveniently left out. They concluded that Rey was most likely suffering from bipolar disorder. Also, Rey was a frequent guest at the Belvedere, and was friendly with two bartenders (who worked at a bar located on the 13th floor). These same bartenders...would smoke on the roof. It also says that Porter Stansberry offered a $1,000 reward to locate Rey before his body was found. Rey also told someone, "that he believed the Church of Scientology ran the west coast film industry and the Masons ran the east coast film industry."

I have no idea why these true crime shows just can't be honest about cases that they are presenting.

Unsolved Mysteries mentioned that Stansberry offered a reward of 1,000.

I finished it with that point, that she can think she's whatever she is but it's total hubris to start as a case on a totally personal opinion. Her opinion of her being average looking isn't more valid than a person who doesn't agree and yet the whole things starts from acting like it's a fact that "He's is out of her league so he must be gay and that could be why he killed himself".

I laughed super hard in real life when I read that. The theory doesn't make sense, but Sheraaa said it so matter of factly, like it was an actual fact that it made me bust out laughing.

Let's say you work for a company who is currently under investigation for a potential federal violation, and then a coworker from this company dies while not at work or on location. Do you think your company's lawyers would want you talking to the police? Hell, at my job, there is very specific wording in our employee handbook which says to not answer any questions from the media with regards to any questions involving our business, and to refer to them the company's attorney. This isn't as nefarious as people are making it out to be.


Blocking people from talking to the MEDIA is quite common.

Blocking people from talking to the police is.. Borderline illegal. Cops said they'd need subpeona power to make people talk, and.. Hmm.. it just seems that any DA would grant that if they asked.

Yep, open and shut case. The only "weird" thing was Porter not talking. But he did help with the search so it's obvious he was quiet because of business, not because he murdered him.

Helped with the search, put up a reward.. Could also be ways to deflect attention...

"Unsolved Mysteries" Co-Creator on Rey Rivera Case
by Rosy Cordero
July 7, 2020


Terry Dunn Meurer is excited that fans have been streaming the new "Unsolved Mysteries" on Netflix since its July 1 debut — not only because it could lead to another season, but because she hopes to bring closure to those dealing with an unsolved mystery.

Meurer, who co-created the original series and the reboot, remains optimistic just a week after the show's premiere as tips relating to some of the 12 new cases have been pouring in.





Meanwhile, as authorities assess those tips, viewers have been rabidly sharing fan theories, reactions, and developments online, and Meurer discussed some of the more intriguing ones with EW.

For example, an internet sleuth on Reddit pointed out a possible connection between a note left behind by Rey Rivera, the reboot's first case presented, and his mysterious demise in 2006. The aspiring screenwriter was found dead in an empty room at the Belvedere Hotel in Baltimore, which he reached by falling in from the roof. Was it suicide? Could it have been foul play?

He left a note behind, not of the suicide variety, that listed movies, books, music, and TV shows he enjoyed, as well as names of family and friends; it also referenced the Freemasons and filmmaker Stanley Kubrick.





The reddit sleuth noticed Rivera listed David Fincher's The Game in his final letter, a 1997 film about a man who gets caught up in an elaborate scheme in which a company makes him think he's lost everything.

As a result of a series of unfortunate events, he jumps from the roof of a building through a glass ceiling, suggesting Rivera could've been acting out the events of the movie.





"I spoke to [his wife] Allison Rivera about that," Meurer tells EW exclusively. "She's spent a lot of time with that note, as did the FBI, just going through the note trying to figure out if there were any clues or anything else in there. She doesn't place any significance on the movie The Game. Rey liked a lot of different types of movies. He was just a guy who was interested in everything. If he had only ever left just that writing or if it was the only thing he had ever written randomly, then people would be a little bit more suspect.

But this is what he did all the time. He kept so many journals full of random writing. Allison feels that she's been through all the journals just trying to find any clue that could help her figure out what happened to him, and she couldn't find any real or strong connections in The Game."

https://ew.com/tv/unsolved-mysteries-terry-dunn-meurer-rey-rivera-update/

Soooo... the ending of the movie was ruined here for nothing? :wallbang

Helped with the search, put up a reward.. Could also be ways to deflect attention...

Porter's office was close to the Belvedere, so why not murder him somewhere were there were less people? It's pretty ballsy to murder someone by dropping/pushing them down infront of a bunch of windows in a building. Also three guys from Porter's office found Rey's body. Why not just be quiet and pretend they didn't see anything?

Also like TheCars1986 said, Rey was a regular at the bar in the Belvedere and was friends with two of the bartenders who smoked on the roof, so him being there isn't weird or new. Rey was very familiar with the Belvedere

Soooo... the ending of the movie was ruined here for nothing? :wallbang

Yeaaaaaah I went out and uhhhhh borrowed The Game because of this case and talk about spoiler alert :mad:

Porter's office was close to the Belvedere, so why not murder him somewhere were there were less people? It's pretty ballsy to murder someone by dropping/pushing them down infront of a bunch of windows in a building. Also three guys from Porter's office found Rey's body. Why not just be quiet and pretend they didn't see anything?

Also like TheCars1986 said, Rey was a regular at the bar in the Belvedere and was friends with two of the bartenders who smoked on the roof, so him being there isn't weird or new. Rey was very familiar with the Belvedere


Convenience? Didn't go with the intent for murder.. Pushing turned to shoving turned to a dive off the roof?

Obviously, we can go back and forth with point/counterpoint forever, or until one of us breaks out the old "Jane, you ignorant slut"..

The FBI report, I start to lean more to the suicide. But.. I cannot get past the company going on lockdown. There's something there. You've got to cede that point, right? Something is rotten with that company. There is zero sense in that other than they are hiding something.

We can disagree all we want on whether or not that rotten-ness is relevant to the death investigation.. But, there's something there. I'm 70/30 on it leaning towards it is relevant. It may not be that they killed him. They may just be hiding impropriety.. Though I'm shocked whatever it is hasn't come out in ~15 years.

Again, I just can't help but come back to the fact that I believe fully that the answers lie in his office building.

FWIW.. I can't get behind any of the 'staged death scene' theories here. that someone stashed his body and cut the hole in the roof. I mean, come on. That stretches credibility off the map for me. Who would come up with THAT idea? I'm a big believer in.. Simple. Murders aren't generally planned out and not planned out well by those who aren't professionals at it.

I would love to know the date they last got good footage from the roof camera. Was it disconnected right before they believe he went up there, or had it been disconnected for weeks/months?

But.. I cannot get past the company going on lockdown. There's something there. You've got to cede that point, right? Something is rotten with that company. There is zero sense in that other than they are hiding something.

Sure. They were found in fraud and Rey worked for the company so, it's possible that they didn't want L.E. snooping around if they had some illegal things going on which Rey could've been apart of.

Does it mean that they committed murder? absolutely not. I think it's documented well enough that Rey had some mental issues and bouts of psychosis.

Unsolved Mysteries mentioned that Stansberry offered a reward of 1,000.

That was my mistake. They did not mention that he was active in the searches for Rey, however.

So here's a thought... What if Porter Stansberry didn't kill Rey, but he and/or the company pushed him to suicide (no pun intended)?

It's obvious Porter had been up to illegal/unethical stuff and liked to push bizarre theories in the company's writings. I have to wonder if that didn't get Rey going. Take a guy who is already stressed, perhaps unhappy about his station in life, and start feeding him stuff. It could have been anything from "You better play ball or we're all going to jail" or "Unless you want to lose your house, you better do what we say." I can easily see how Rey could get sucked down the rabbit hole and start doubting his own ethics.

The other thing I wonder is if there were any government or mafia ties. Had the Feds approached Rey about squealing on Porter? Had Rey approached the Feds about coming clean? Was there a group that was angry at the company about their informational letters and tried to put the squeeze on Rey? Obviously he was freaked out someone was trying to break in, and he also had a mini-meltdown at the track when he saw a stranger. Was he worried someone was coming to get him because he was delusional, or because someone put that thought in his head?

I guess what I'm getting at is that this could still be a suicide, but perhaps something the company or employees did made Rey more likely do to it. That might explain why they ordered everyone to clam up.

It's great Porter offered the $1,000 reward (which is peanuts, TBH) but as Porter's lifelong best friend, why would he not at least talk to Allison? I think that is weird and rude. He owed her that much. Either Porter has something to hide, or he values his business more than his friends. Either way, it is not a good look for him.

FBI report (https://imgur.com/a/l7oUpZE#6NZpXXi) was released over on reddit. My love for the UM reboot is dwindling every day considering the information they conveniently left out. They concluded that Rey was most likely suffering from bipolar disorder. Also, Rey was a frequent guest at the Belvedere, and was friendly with two bartenders (who worked at a bar located on the 13th floor). These same bartenders...would smoke on the roof. It also says that Porter Stansberry offered a $1,000 reward to locate Rey before his body was found. Rey also told someone, "that he believed the Church of Scientology ran the west coast film industry and the Masons ran the east coast film industry."

I have no idea why these true crime shows just can't be honest about cases that they are presenting.

Thanks for posting this link, Cars.

A few things about this... It is definitely odd that none of this was mentioned in the broadcast. Probably UM slanting the story but I wonder if there are other reasons for this.

They say several times that the letter was found "on the desk" of Rey. Wasn't it taped to the back of his computer? There is a big difference there.

The mental illness thing is interesting because at different times in the FBI report they seem to say Rey has: 1) persecutory delusional disorder, 2) bipolar disorder, or 3) schizophrenia. They also seem to be making those conclusions based entirely on the letter itself. When discussing mental illness, they say much of this occurs over weeks or months, yet they cite no other instances of where Rey shows these traits. (I'm not saying he didn't have it -- it's just really weird they are drawing all of this from the letter alone.) I'm not doubting the FBI's abilities here. I just think it's odd they seem to be labeling him with three possible mental
illnesses based on one document which they admit they don't even know who the author was. (I do believe it was Rey, but I think you get my point.)

They offer info on the "Masons run the east coast film industry" without quoting the source or the context. That is hearsay and do we even know if Rey was being serious? It's easy to label someone as mentally ill in hindsight based off one document and a few random quotes, but that's not how mental illnesses are diagnosed. I feel they are doing Rey a huge disservice here.

In one part it says the roof was only accessible from a ladder. It says two of the bartenders knew him but doesn't say how often they saw him or when they last saw him. Does the bar have a way to jump out of? Did anyone see him there that day?

Also, Porter offered the $1,000 reward when Rey was missing. That isn't that big a deal if you already know what happened to him. That could have just been a PR move, especially since he clammed up after the body was found.

I agree the more info we get, the more it looks like suicide and I'm not just playing the conspiracy card here. There is still a lot of stuff that helps paint the picture but is not exactly verifiable. I would be all in for changing my opinion to suicide in spite of all of the other evidence if the physics of this could be figured out. That's what bothers me the most.

Obviously, we can go back and forth with point/counterpoint forever, or until one of us breaks out the old "Jane, you ignorant slut"..

:lol::lol::lol: So many people are too young to get this reference, but it is perfect! Well done!

The FBI report, I start to lean more to the suicide. But.. I cannot get past the company going on lockdown. There's something there. You've got to cede that point, right? Something is rotten with that company. There is zero sense in that other than they are hiding something.

We can disagree all we want on whether or not that rotten-ness is relevant to the death investigation.. But, there's something there. I'm 70/30 on it leaning towards it is relevant. It may not be that they killed him. They may just be hiding impropriety.. Though I'm shocked whatever it is hasn't come out in ~15 years.

This is exactly where I am at. I don't think he was murdered, the hole faked, and his body was put there. However, I'm not convinced he was just depressed and jumped. They need to figure out how he got where he did.

Something happened that day to trip him off. It doesn't necessarily mean the company or Porter is at fault, but their behavior sure makes it look that way. Was Rey on the edge and they did something to push him over the edge (no pun intended)? Did they scare him into thinking his career or lifestyle was in danger?

He may very well have been mentally ill, or depressed, or despondent, but there are way too many loose ends to this to simply say it was a straight up suicide. I'm sure that's why this is so hard for his poor wife and family.

A few things about this... It is definitely odd that none of this was mentioned in the broadcast. Probably UM slanting the story but I wonder if there are other reasons for this.

This case is getting dragged on the Unsolved Mysteries subreddit for its blatant bias in steering the viewer into believing Rey was murdered. That's th beauty of the reboot, however. People won't have to wait years to challenge the narrative presented in each segment because we have the internet now. The woman who wrote the book on Rey's death, who was living in the Belvedere at the time, said that her windows shook on the night of his death. Meaning there was at least one person who heard something that night.

Something happened that day to trip him off. It doesn't necessarily mean the company or Porter is at fault, but their behavior sure makes it look that way. Was Rey on the edge and they did something to push him over the edge (no pun intended)? Did they scare him into thinking his career or lifestyle was in danger?

He may very well have been mentally ill, or depressed, or despondent, but there are way too many loose ends to this to simply say it was a straight up suicide. I'm sure that's why this is so hard for his poor wife and family.

I mean what could they have done though? Rey wasn't even working for them full-time he was just freelance with the company at that point

Unless he was being blackmailed I don't know what they could've said/done that made him jump

I see people mention the fact that Rey was a frequent visitor to the bar and knew bartenders who had access to the roof, but does anyone know if those bartenders saw him or were working the night of his death? Also, unless I'm mistaken there seems to be no witness accounts verifying him at the bar that night, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Honestly I'm 60/40 on whether it's a murder or a suicide, with 60 on the murder theory. As someone who has a sibling who's a frequent writer, I lean towards his writings being a red herring but his mention of "The Game" is certainly interesting. Also, a poster on a site that can't be mentioned said russians with links to the mob owned condos at the belvedere and had links with Stansberry. Guy could be full of crap but if true that's another wrinkle. Not only that, it's safe to say Russian mobsters can make deaths look like something that is staged.

IMO it's one of those cases that the pieces of the puzzle simply dont fit, and that's probably why this case has piqued everyone's interest.

I mean what could they have done though? Rey wasn't even working for them full-time he was just freelance with the company at that point

Unless he was being blackmailed I don't know what they could've said/done that made him jump

You never know.. I mean, it's seeming that we're getting more and more info of him being in a fragile mental state.

It may not have even been anything intentionally done that made him jump. This could be as simple as they called him in to discuss a problem with an article he was working on or whatever and it was enough at that particular time, on that particular day, to push him over the edge (No pun intended)

Again.. I'll speculate some.. I'll listen to others points and might even agree on some. But the one point that I am pretty steadfast on.. I believe the answers lie in the Stansberry offices.

:lol::lol::lol: So many people are too young to get this reference, but it is perfect! Well done!


Oh, and thank you.. I figured that either people would get the reference or I'd find myself banned.. And.. Honestly, it could be both..

Unless I've missed someone else mentioning it, but doesn't anyone find it odd that the family found Rey's car before the BPD did and not only that, next to his work? A major PD with near unlimited resources getting beat to an important piece of evidence in a high profile case (archival footage was shown of the case being on local news before body was found) by amateur slueths/family members on a shoestring budget next to the guy's employer? To me that's another thing that makes no sense in a case that already doesn't.

Unless I've missed someone else mentioning it, but doesn't anyone find it odd that the family found Rey's car before the BPD did and not only that, next to his work? A major PD with near unlimited resources getting beat to an important piece of evidence in a high profile case (archival footage was shown of the case being on local news before body was found) by amateur slueths/family members on a shoestring budget next to the guy's employer? To me that's another thing that makes no sense in a case that already doesn't.

I don't blame the BPD for this. It was like finding a needle in a haystack. From what I remember, no one knew where Rey went when he was last seen alive.

But wouldn't one of the first places you'd look for evidence be near where he worked? Also, this was several days into the search. If it doesn't surprise you that a major city PD has less investigative intuition than a handful of amateurs, our police in this country are in an even sorrier state than I thought and that's saying something.

But wouldn't one of the first places you'd look for evidence be near where he worked? Also, this was several days into the search. If it doesn't surprise you that a major city PD has less investigative intuition than a handful of amateurs, our police in this country are in an even sorrier state than I thought and that's saying something.

I think the problem here is that Rey was an adult and there were no direct signs of foul play. So while he was missing, there was nothing to indicate he was the victim of a crime and he very well could have left on his own. So I don't think BPD devoted much of any resources to try and find him. I think that would be pretty typical of a big city police department under these circumstances. That doesn't mean I agree with them, but that's just the reality of it.

Again.. I'll speculate some.. I'll listen to others points and might even agree on some. But the one point that I am pretty steadfast on.. I believe the answers lie in the Stansberry offices.

Yes! I agree 100% with this.

It may still be a suicide, Rey may have had mental illness, there may have been a lot going on, but the final sequence of events runs through the Stansberry office.
At that time, Rey was working freelance for the Stansberry company doing video work. He and Allison were putting their house of the market and preparing to move to Los Angeles.

We know for a fact that the phone call Rey received right before he left his house suddenly came from the Stansberry office, yet no one would admit to calling him and the company put out a gag order after Rey's body was found (which funny enough, their lawyer is now denying). If they had nothing to hide, why not say, "Oh, I called Rey about an invoice" or "I just wanted to see how his project was going" or "I was just saying hi." There is NONE of that. Again, I understand protecting business interests, but Porter can't talk to Allison on a personal level as Rey's best friend?

So we know Rey received a call from the Stansberry company, said "Oh, ****" and raced out of the house. We know he parked near the office and the Belvedere and was found dead. How can the Stansberry company not be investigated for this? Sure, it could be unrelated and maybe Rey was already suicidal and the phone call made him mad or scared him. But to think it was in no way related just blows my mind.

Also, Rey was a frequent guest at the Belvedere, and was friendly with two bartenders (who worked at a bar located on the 13th floor). These same bartenders...would smoke on the roof.

Even if this is true, it's a bit of a stretch (had to stop myself from saying "leap" :D) to think that just because Rey knew the bartenders who smoked on the roof, that he would know how to access the roof. From what they showed, it was not very straightforward or easy to get to. Maybe he figured it out but we don't know that.

After rewatching the case, the two things that struck me most were the drone shots of the Belvedere and the distance from the roof. There is no easy or logical jumping off point. Even at it's closest, the roof is a significant distance from the hole where he was found. They estimate he would have needed a full running start to get that far, yet he was wearing flip flops. That is why I still have issues with the physics on this.

I don't think the scene was staged. I think he died as the result of falling through that hole, and I lean toward it being a suicide. But I don't think he simply jumped from the roof of the Belvedere and I think there is way more to the events leading up to his death than we know.

Fair enough, there's a good or even strong chance they weren't even bothering to look for him. It's one thing to say they're investigating, but that doesn't mean they actually are. Then again, if someone is reported missing and you're not doing anything about it, maybe not in this case but in other cases that can show police culpability.

It just seems like everything in this case, even the simple details, seem off. This case is turning out to be as weird and unexplainable as cases like the Judy Smith, Blair Adams, and Charles Morgan cases IMO

Then again, if someone is reported missing and you're not doing anything about it, maybe not in this case but in other cases that can show police culpability.

The problem with this is that what if the police did invest a majority of their resources into finding Rey, only for him to resurface a few days later, alive and well? BPD doesn't have enough resources as it is. Their homicide closure rate is always less than 50%.

The problem with this is that what if the police did invest a majority of their resources into finding Rey, only for him to resurface a few days later, alive and well? BPD doesn't have enough resources as it is. Their homicide closure rate is always less than 50%.
It might very well be lack of resources, but there are definitely cases where police have arguably and inarguably have insidious motives during a missing person search; look no further than the Alonzo Brooks case in the UM reboot.

I'll still stand by my statement that it should at minimum be an eyebrow-raise that such an important piece of evidence is discovered by the family instead of a metropolitan PD, especially when you factor in it was already a high-profile case at the time of discovery and in a case where the pieces of the puzzle dont fit. Agree to disagree if you want

I assume everybody knows about the google drive that has tons of extra video, interviews, etc on each episode right? This was posted early on this week.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnsolvedMysteries/comments/hn07tf/hey_guys_netflix_here_weve_created_a_public_drive/

Just a thought on the company going hush hush. If they had heard a former employee had possibly committed suicide shorty after a phone call from their office, they may have issued the gag order to prevent a wrongful death suit. The bigger the business the more steps they take to cover the backsides.

Just a thought on the company going hush hush. If they had heard a former employee had possibly committed suicide shorty after a phone call from their office, they may have issued the gag order to prevent a wrongful death suit. The bigger the business the more steps they take to cover the backsides.

Good point. The segment doesn't mention it, but Porter Stansberry was very much involved in searching for Rey. It was when they found the body that he refused to cooperate with law enforcement.

Just a thought on the company going hush hush. If they had heard a former employee had possibly committed suicide shorty after a phone call from their office, they may have issued the gag order to prevent a wrongful death suit. The bigger the business the more steps they take to cover the backsides.

Couple of things... Rey was still a freelance employee, so he did have a business relationship with the company. Why would they be sued for wrongful death if they didn’t do anything? The only reason to issue a gag order is if you are, or could appear, guilty. Why would they worry if they were in the clear? If not legally required to talk to investigators, they are morally bound to help. Keep in mind this was Porter’s supposed lifelong best friend.

Finally, the company lawyer now claims no gag order was ever issued. That’s awfully convenient. So will they reach out to investigators to help now? This company is shady AF and to act like they have no role in this is ignoring the obvious. They may not have anything to do with how or why Rey died but someone from that company was likely the last person to have contact with Rey... So why are they still staying silent?

Finally, the company lawyer now claims no gag order was ever issued. That’s awfully convenient. So will they reach out to investigators to help now? This company is shady AF and to act like they have no role in this is ignoring the obvious. They may not have anything to do with how or why Rey died but someone from that company was likely the last person to have contact with Rey... So why are they still staying silent?

A person on reddit, claiming to be an employee working for Stansberry at the time, says that the gag order was not real and there was no directive sent out to employees telling them to keep quiet.

A person on reddit, claiming to be an employee working for Stansberry at the time, says that the gag order was not real and there was no directive sent out to employees telling them to keep quiet.

On the UM story, the homicide detective from BPD said there was a gag order as told to him by the company attorneys. Perhaps the person on reddit missed the memo, but I'm going to take this cop's word for it. :)

It's also possible that it was a management directive to the leadership group and not every employee was notified. But I have a hard time believing there wasn't any gag order directive if the cops were told that directly by the company lawyers.

Again, I know they were under investigation by the SEC. But if they truly had nothing to hide, why not talk to the cops? City cops have nothing to do with the SEC so it's not like the cases should be linked. If Porter and friends were clean, give the cops a statement and send them on their merry way: "I hadn't talked to Rey in a few days. Our company calls him all the time about routine business. I have no idea why he was in this area. Please let me know if I can do anything to help."

But Porter and the company chose to remain silent, and someone in that office was the last person we know of to speak with Rey.

But if they truly had nothing to hide, why not talk to the cops?

Because they did have stuff to hide, and it had nothing to do with the death of Rey Rivera. Talking to the cops opens up potential evidence in the SEC trial, "anything you say can be used against you in court". Lawyers were smart in telling them not to talk to the police.

Because they did have stuff to hide, and it had nothing to do with the death of Rey Rivera. Talking to the cops opens up potential evidence in the SEC trial, "anything you say can be used against you in court". Lawyers were smart in telling them not to talk to the police.

I understand that but I don't see how part of a death investigation could be used against someone in an SEC investigation. No one was under arrest so they don't have to answer anything from the cops, or they could choose which questions to answer. They could easily have given limited information about Rey (and denied everything) which would have nothing to do with the SEC case.

While that may have been a "smart" move from a lawyer's point of view, it is immoral to say nothing in a death investigation, especially for someone's supposed best friend. Porter Stansberry is a giant P.O.S. for how he handled this.

I think he is hiding behind the SEC investigation as a reason not to talk to the police. Is he still under SEC investigation to this day? If not, why not call the police and tell them what you know? If he had nothing to do with Rey's death, what is there to be afraid of 14 years later?

I understand that but I don't see how part of a death investigation could be used against someone in an SEC investigation. No one was under arrest so they don't have to answer anything from the cops, or they could choose which questions to answer. They could easily have given limited information about Rey (and denied everything) which would have nothing to do with the SEC case.

While that may have been a "smart" move from a lawyer's point of view, it is immoral to say nothing in a death investigation, especially for someone's supposed best friend. Porter Stansberry is a giant P.O.S. for how he handled this.

I think he is hiding behind the SEC investigation as a reason not to talk to the police. Is he still under SEC investigation to this day? If not, why not call the police and tell them what you know? If he had nothing to do with Rey's death, what is there to be afraid of 14 years later?

Stansberry was convicted (https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-2007-08-10-0708100274-story.html) back in 2007. Stansberry also spoke with the press (https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/entertainment/a33273883/where-is-frank-porter-stansberry-netflix-unsolved-mysteries/) prior to Rey's body being found. I have no idea why he won't come out and speak about Rey's case now.

https://i.imgur.com/aemEgQs.png

From Mikita Brottman's book. This is how you would access the roof to the Belvedere. Rey getting to the roof through door 1 seems unlikely, since that requires a key. However, door 2 is connected to the 13th floor bar's storage area, and bartenders would go through this door, up the stairway to the skylight window area, and then up the tiny ladder to access the door to get to the roof to smoke. This door is supposed to be kept locked.

So, if this was a murder, how exactly did Porter Stansberry and/or others manage to gain entry to these various areas to throw Rey off of the building without being detected?

From Mikita Brottman's book. This is how you would access the roof to the Belvedere. Rey getting to the roof through door 1 seems unlikely, since that requires a key. However, door 2 is connected to the 13th floor bar's storage area, and bartenders would go through this door, up the stairway to the skylight window area, and then up the tiny ladder to access the door to get to the roof to smoke. This door is supposed to be kept locked.

So, if this was a murder, how exactly did Porter Stansberry and/or others manage to gain entry to these various areas to throw Rey off of the building without being detected?

Thanks for posting that picture, Cars. (I don't remember... Did you read the whole book? If so, did you like it?)

I don't think Rey was thrown off the roof. I don't think a guy that big could be thrown off a roof and land over 40 feet away. I can't explain how this happened but I really don't think he jumped, fell, or was thrown off the roof. How could he or anyone have gotten enough momentum to jump and get 43 feet away? That is a long ways from the edge -- and Rey was wearing flip flops. The physics just doesn't support him jumping from the roof. I'm not even convinced he was murdered, but I am convinced this isn't a straight up suicide. [Edit: I just saw your post on another thread about the physicist. I don't doubt you, but do you know the source? That point seems to be in dispute.]

I'm not sure what Porter's role was in this. I'm just bothered by the fact he and his company have NEVER (to our public knowledge) spoken to the police or family since Rey's body was found. Your best friend dies and you clam up for 14 years? That's what bothers me.

Thanks for posting that picture, Cars. (I don't remember... Did you read the whole book? If so, did you like it?)

There are snippets from Brottman's book available online if you search hard enough. I found this picture that someone took from the book and posted to reddit. I have not read the full book, but from what I have read, the book is more or less about her experiences with being a true crime fan who just so happened to be living in a building where a mysterious death occurred. I cannot stress enough however, that none of the purported shady business dealings, the potential ties to the Freemasons, and the SEC investigation and scandal where covered locally when this happened. It was treated as a bizarre disappearance for a few days, and then when they found his body, it was pretty much accepted as a suicide.

I don't think Rey was thrown off the roof. I don't think a guy that big could be thrown off a roof and land over 40 feet away. I can't explain how this happened but I really don't think he jumped, fell, or was thrown off the roof. How could he or anyone have gotten enough momentum to jump and get 43 feet away? That is a long ways from the edge -- and Rey was wearing flip flops. The physics just doesn't support him jumping from the roof. I'm not even convinced he was murdered, but I am convinced this isn't a straight up suicide. [Edit: I just saw your post on another thread about the physicist. I don't doubt you, but do you know the source? That point seems to be in dispute.]

I believe earlier in this thread I posted the quote from this physicist. It was included in Brottman's book. That's how they came up with the 11 mph number. It was determined that he had enough room to run and reach 11 mph to land at hole in the old pool roof.

I'm not sure what Porter's role was in this. I'm just bothered by the fact he and his company have NEVER (to our public knowledge) spoken to the police or family since Rey's body was found. Your best friend dies and you clam up for 14 years? That's what bothers me.

Knowing at how UM likes to skew this and paint a one sided picture (although in this instance, since Porter refused to be interviewed that is on him), isn't it possible that he has talked to Rey's family at some point after his death?

Because they did have stuff to hide, and it had nothing to do with the death of Rey Rivera. Talking to the cops opens up potential evidence in the SEC trial, "anything you say can be used against you in court". Lawyers were smart in telling them not to talk to the police.

Just the mere presence of them being around investigating a death isn't a good look.

Mikita Brottman, who wrote a book on Rey's death, recently did a reddit AMA (https://www.reddit.com/r/UnsolvedMysteries/comments/hqj3kk/ama_mikita_brottman_author_of_an_unexplained/) about his case and the story on UM on Netflix.

It was very interesting. I haven't read her book, but she does go into a lot more detail on a number of things. What is most interesting to me is that she was interviewed for almost 3 hours for the new UM story on Rey and they ended up not using any of it.

Her view is that UM plays up the grieving wife part of this story and sets up Porter Stansberry to look bad. She thinks suicide is most likely but she did admit she has waffled over the years and there certainly are some real oddities with this case. One new oddity that I didn't known: Rey left his house at 6:30pm and the noise was heard at the Belvedere at around 10pm. So what was he doing for the better part of 4 hours before he died?

I'm not normally a fan of reddit but I did find this very interesting.

While I am not sure this was a suicide, that letter reads like someone who is suffering from mental illness - and it could be a psychotic break that caused him to kill himself suddenly.

I feel that there is some information that is not being said, and regardless of what happened, it is very odd that his best friend wants no part in helping to find out what happened to his close friend.

I understand that but I don't see how part of a death investigation could be used against someone in an SEC investigation. No one was under arrest so they don't have to answer anything from the cops, or they could choose which questions to answer. They could easily have given limited information about Rey (and denied everything) which would have nothing to do with the SEC case.

Well this isn't exactly the same, but Mike DeBardeleben ( I think that's his name) was being investigated for counterfeiting money or something and during a search of his storage unit I believe they found a bunch of tapes that showed he was also a serial killer. It wasn't a case of, oh well it's not what we were looking for, too bad we can't use it. I know it's way different but the company was probably worried about even a small slip up jeopardizing the SEC case. Not saying that it was the right decision morally, but I can believe that would be a reason for the gag order.

Well this isn't exactly the same, but Mike DeBardeleben ( I think that's his name) was being investigated for counterfeiting money or something and during a search of his storage unit I believe they found a bunch of tapes that showed he was also a serial killer. It wasn't a case of, oh well it's not what we were looking for, too bad we can't use it. I know it's way different but the company was probably worried about even a small slip up jeopardizing the SEC case. Not saying that it was the right decision morally, but I can believe that would be a reason for the gag order.

Bingo

RobinW will be releasing a new episode of his "The Trail Went Cold" podcast on August 12th which is about Rey's case. He said it is one of his longest ever.

I'm really looking forward to it to hear Robin's opinion, but also because I know Robin will dig into all sides of this and not try to steer the story towards a particular conclusion. Should be a great listen!

(NOTE: This is not a shameless plug. I am not connected to Robin or his podcast monetarily. I just really enjoy listening to it and I've always thought he does a great job presenting his cases. :D)

New article where Stansberry was interviewed: https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-cr-rey-rivera-netflix-inaccuracies-20200805-zxmiq4ppp5euxhbcm23ksgezva-story.html

New article where Stansberry was interviewed: https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-cr-rey-rivera-netflix-inaccuracies-20200805-zxmiq4ppp5euxhbcm23ksgezva-story.html

Really interesting article. Thanks for posting it, mhryvnak!

This certainly does point the needle much more towards the suicide side of things, but unfortunately still doesn't clear up some of the biggest oddities of this case. It's great that Porter Stansberry spoke up -- I just think it's funny it took all of this negative press for him to do so. He could have done himself a lot of favors by doing this earlier. At a minimum, I'm still shocked he didn't reach out to Rey's wife, if they really were as close as they said.

The more we find out, the more it is clear that Rey was much more depressed/troubled that his wife ever let on. He was clearly struggling with something, whether it was the stress of life and/or an undiagnosed metal illness. To that end, it would make much more sense that this was a suicide.

I've definitely come around on this and now think it was likely a suicide. (I agree with Mikita Brottman that this was more likely a psychotic break than a direct attempt to end his life.) That said, I'm still troubled by a few things, like where his body was found, who called Rey before he left the house and why, and where was he during the time between the call and when they think he jumped off the roof.

I'm still looking forward to RobinW's podcast episode, too.

That said, I'm still troubled by a few things, like where his body was found, who called Rey before he left the house and why, and where was he during the time between the call and when they think he jumped off the roof.

Stansberry interview answers things a little better:

"Stansberry asserts that while the call might have come from someone at Agora — he says Rivera was doing freelance work for another Agora subsidiary after leaving Stanberry’s firm — it could not have come from his company.

Every person in our company who had worked with Rey was on the Eastern Shore at the time that call was made, having a corporate retreat in St. Michael’s,” Stansberry said. “No one in my company was in town when Rey disappeared. The idea we were calling him from our switchboard is ridiculous.”

Stansberry said Rivera had also asked him previously if he was in leadership of the Freemasons, which Stansberry said he thought was a joke. He said when Rivera’s family and friends were searching for him, Rivera’s wife told him that the Saturday before he went missing, Rivera was “morose and would not get out of bed.”

“She told me she was very worried about his mental state at the time he disappeared,” Stansberry said. “I’m not the only friend Rey approached and said things that were very odd.”

It's amazing at how the UM presented version of these segments are taken as gospel on social media and other forums, despite the clear overwhelming evidence that they really went out of their way to lie about what happened to Rey Rivera.

At a minimum, I'm still shocked he didn't reach out to Rey's wife, if they really were as close as they said.

If your best friend was suffering from some sort of clear mental illness, and then took their own life tragically, and then their spouse for years continued to insinuate that you were somehow involved in their death...I don't think you'd be very welcoming to that person. Stansberry is a victim too in all of this.

From what I understand PS talked to Rey's wife afterward and was not as silent as everyone said. Even the gag order was actually the company telling employees to direct all media inquiries to a specific person. That's very, very common. As both the casino and the bank I worked in did the same thing when we had notorious things involving the companies.

RobinW loved your episode! I found your analysis spot on, and I totally agree with everything.

If your best friend was suffering from some sort of clear mental illness, and then took their own life tragically, and then their spouse for years continued to insinuate that you were somehow involved in their death...I don't think you'd be very welcoming to that person. Stansberry is a victim too in all of this.

I would agree that Stansberry has been unfairly maligned in this particular scenario. Obviously, the dude is a sleazy guy who scams others for money...he's not some great guy.

At the same time, being a financial scammer definitely does not mean you are a murderer. (And if he was a murderer, there are a million easier ways to bump somebody off than creating this elaborate suicide-from-a-busy-building scenario.) If I wanted to whack somebody, like, for instance, my ex-boss....I would definitely turn to more covert, simpler methods.

I would agree that Stansberry has been unfairly maligned in this particular scenario. Obviously, the dude is a sleazy guy who scams others for money...he's not some great guy.

At the same time, being a financial scammer definitely does not mean you are a murderer. (And if he was a murderer, there are a million easier ways to bump somebody off than creating this elaborate suicide-from-a-busy-building scenario.) If I wanted to whack somebody, like, for instance, my ex-boss....I would definitely turn to more covert, simpler methods.

He wouldn't have to be a murderer to have knowledge of what happened. Suppose he or someone in his company called Rey and said, "Hey, we're cutting off your contract and not paying you, and the SEC is going to talk to you about your role in giving bad financial advice." Rey then has a meltdown and goes and kills himself. That wouldn't make Stansberry a murderer or probably even criminally guilty, but it would make him (or whoever) possibly morally responsible.

That's why I as happy to hear RobinW key in on the phone call in his podcast. That may have had nothing to do with it, but it sure seems that the final call was the catalyst for making Rey leave his house in a relative hurry and he ended up dead later that night. If the phone call was truly innocent and had no bearing on any of this, why hasn't Angora or its subsidiary come out and said, "Oh, so-and-so just had a billing question. It was totally routine"? This seems like it would be so easy to clear up.

I agree that many corporations clam up in investigations, and I understand why. It is odd in this case that there is such a disagreement between the employees, lawyers, media, and police on whether it was a true gag order or a simple "please refer all questions to our communications people."

In any event, Porter Stansberry may have had good reason not to talk with his SEC investigation, and he certainly was under no obligation to do so. But morally, he should have come forward sooner and more openly. It's funny that he doesn't say boo for years until the UM story and now he claims it made him look bad. No, being a crappy stock scammer, a conspiracy theorist, and clamming up to your dead friend's wife made you look bad, sir.

I still now think Rey probably died by his own action, but whether it was a true suicide or a psychotic break is to be determined. Without a clear manner of death and with so many open questions and loose ends, this will probably always remain shrouded in mystery.

I still think Ray somehow made it to the lower roof first and there decided to jump from above. I think that’s why his glasses and cell were found there in good condition. Some people remove their glasses and possessions from their person before they kill themselves. He also could have been mugged earlier and taken a blow to the head making him confused. That would explain his lost money clip and sudden need to jump off the roof like the movie The Game. If he was killed, why put his glasses and phone there instead of the roof? That makes it look even more suspicious.

He wouldn't have to be a murderer to have knowledge of what happened. Suppose he or someone in his company called Rey and said, "Hey, we're cutting off your contract and not paying you, and the SEC is going to talk to you about your role in giving bad financial advice." Rey then has a meltdown and goes and kills himself. That wouldn't make Stansberry a murderer or probably even criminally guilty, but it would make him (or whoever) possibly morally responsible.

That's why I as happy to hear RobinW key in on the phone call in his podcast. That may have had nothing to do with it, but it sure seems that the final call was the catalyst for making Rey leave his house in a relative hurry and he ended up dead later that night. If the phone call was truly innocent and had no bearing on any of this, why hasn't Angora or its subsidiary come out and said, "Oh, so-and-so just had a billing question. It was totally routine"? This seems like it would be so easy to clear up.

I agree that many corporations clam up in investigations, and I understand why. It is odd in this case that there is such a disagreement between the employees, lawyers, media, and police on whether it was a true gag order or a simple "please refer all questions to our communications people."

In any event, Porter Stansberry may have had good reason not to talk with his SEC investigation, and he certainly was under no obligation to do so. But morally, he should have come forward sooner and more openly. It's funny that he doesn't say boo for years until the UM story and now he claims it made him look bad. No, being a crappy stock scammer, a conspiracy theorist, and clamming up to your dead friend's wife made you look bad, sir.

I still now think Rey probably died by his own action, but whether it was a true suicide or a psychotic break is to be determined. Without a clear manner of death and with so many open questions and loose ends, this will probably always remain shrouded in mystery.

I think it's possible they don't know who called him. Maybe the person did but was afraid to admit it for some reason. I know that's not normal, but there's often someone who comes forward like 20 years later with some thing that would have been helpful and makes you wonder WTF didn't this person just say this ages ago?

He wouldn't have to be a murderer to have knowledge of what happened. Suppose he or someone in his company called Rey and said, "Hey, we're cutting off your contract and not paying you, and the SEC is going to talk to you about your role in giving bad financial advice." Rey then has a meltdown and goes and kills himself. That wouldn't make Stansberry a murderer or probably even criminally guilty, but it would make him (or whoever) possibly morally responsible.

That's why I as happy to hear RobinW key in on the phone call in his podcast. That may have had nothing to do with it, but it sure seems that the final call was the catalyst for making Rey leave his house in a relative hurry and he ended up dead later that night. If the phone call was truly innocent and had no bearing on any of this, why hasn't Angora or its subsidiary come out and said, "Oh, so-and-so just had a billing question. It was totally routine"? This seems like it would be so easy to clear up.

I agree that many corporations clam up in investigations, and I understand why. It is odd in this case that there is such a disagreement between the employees, lawyers, media, and police on whether it was a true gag order or a simple "please refer all questions to our communications people."

In any event, Porter Stansberry may have had good reason not to talk with his SEC investigation, and he certainly was under no obligation to do so. But morally, he should have come forward sooner and more openly. It's funny that he doesn't say boo for years until the UM story and now he claims it made him look bad. No, being a crappy stock scammer, a conspiracy theorist, and clamming up to your dead friend's wife made you look bad, sir.

I still now think Rey probably died by his own action, but whether it was a true suicide or a psychotic break is to be determined. Without a clear manner of death and with so many open questions and loose ends, this will probably always remain shrouded in mystery.

In his interview Porter said him and his company was out of town when Rey was found dead, and that Rey was working for another company in Agora and was no longer working for his company, so the call came from another company out of Agora, not his.

If true, then it should be easy to find out who Rey was working for at the time of his death in Agora

So despite an hour long run time UM still managed to conveniently leave out some information.

Understand They need to push the “mystery” aspect, but they need to be careful. In this age of social media, it could easily lead to targeted harassment against a “suspect”