The authorities have announced a few years ago that they think Dub and Chance were the victims of foul play. So my question is why do you think these 3 individuals were killed?assuming they are correct. Who do you think the main target for this murder was? Dub or the girlfriend? Do you think the murder could possibly have had something to do with Chance being the target? Possibly over child custody. My guess is it was an ex lover of either Dub or the girlfriend and that there was more than one person involved. I always did kind of think Dub and Chance were victims. I think it's possible the killer or killers were hired to do this. What do you guys think?

The authorities have announced a few years ago that they think Dub and Chance were the victims of foul play. So my question is why do you think these 3 individuals were killed?assuming they are correct. Who do you think the main target for this murder was? Dub or the girlfriend? Do you think the murder could possibly have had something to do with Chance being the target? Possibly over child custody. My guess is it was an ex lover of either Dub or the girlfriend and that there was more than one person involved. I always did kind of think Dub and Chance were victims. I think it's possible the killer or killers were hired to do this. What do you guys think?

Logically, I think the theory that Dub killed Latricia and went into hiding with Chance is thoroughly plausible.

What bothers me though is that after all these years, Chance hasn't resurfaced. I suppose he most certainly could have changed his name, but I can't imagine that, if he's alive, he still hasn't made any apparent attempt to contact his mother by now. He was nine years old when he disappeared; he would be 34 today. The living arrangement at the time of the disappearance was that Chance's mother Gaye had primary custody of him and lived about three hours away from Dub.

I don't really think Dub killed Chance and continued on in hiding, but I do think the notion of a murder-suicide is somewhat likely.

If there was a third party responsible for Latricia's murder and the Wackerhagens' disappearance, I have no idea what the motive could possibly be. There's simply no information other than a few mentions in some articles that investigators might have reason to believe Dub and Chance were also victims.

Logically, I think the theory that Dub killed Latricia and went into hiding with Chance is thoroughly plausible.

What bothers me though is that after all these years, Chance hasn't resurfaced. I suppose he most certainly could have changed his name, but I can't imagine that, if he's alive, he still hasn't made any apparent attempt to contact his mother by now. He was nine years old when he disappeared; he would be 34 today. The living arrangement at the time of the disappearance was that Chance's mother Gaye had primary custody of him and lived about three hours away from Dub.

I don't really think Dub killed Chance and continued on in hiding, but I do think the notion of a murder-suicide is somewhat likely.

If there was a third party responsible for Latricia's murder and the Wackerhagens' disappearance, I have no idea what the motive could possibly be. There's simply no information other than a few mentions in some articles that investigators might have reason to believe Dub and Chance were also victims.

Dubs truck was found in a high crime area. That makes me think someone desperate for money could have been hired. Or possibly Drug related. But that is wild speculation at best on my part.

I'm trying to remember what RobinW discussed on his excellent episode of The Trail Went Cold about this case... I seem to remember that Latricia had a ex-husband or boyfriend who was suspected of killing them in a jealous rage.

I know we aren't entitled to what law enforcement knows, but it is so hard hearing about the "recent developments" in the case that have shifted the investigation and not knowing what is really going on. I used to think Dub was the perp but with the vague new information, I no longer believe that.

This case is the subject of my next blog. I'm talking in-depth with Chance's mother and you'll be surprised at what she has to say. :eek:

This case is the subject of my next blog. I'm talking in-depth with Chance's mother and you'll be surprised at what she has to say. :eek:

WOW! The hits just keep on rolling for you... :D

I can't wait to read your blog on this! :banana:

I'm trying to remember what RobinW discussed on his excellent episode of The Trail Went Cold about this case... I seem to remember that Latricia had a ex-husband or boyfriend who was suspected of killing them in a jealous rage.

I know we aren't entitled to what law enforcement knows, but it is so hard hearing about the "recent developments" in the case that have shifted the investigation and not knowing what is really going on. I used to think Dub was the perp but with the vague new information, I no longer believe that.

I remember that podcast.

This case is the subject of my next blog. I'm talking in-depth with Chance's mother and you'll be surprised at what she has to say. :eek:

I look very forward to that!

This case is the subject of my next blog. I'm talking in-depth with Chance's mother and you'll be surprised at what she has to say. :eek:

Yes! I can't wait. I loved the one on Adam Hecht.

I think Dun and Chance were the victims of foul play at the hands of someone who knew them, or was hired by someone who knew them. I don't believe either are still alive, especially Dub being as massive as he was, 6'4" and and heavier set to boot doesn't exactly blend into a crowd well.

Latricia's ex definitely had something to do with it - see post #190 here (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=258667&highlight=Dub&page=13)

I wasn't going to totally discount the 'Dub did it' theory at first, I was curious about Latricia - about her background, anyone she had recently been involved with besides Dub etc. Either this was investigated sloppily or UM decided to get on the hype train and run with the most obvious theory without exploring other valid avenues (I mean they never mentioned the murder weapon was a *revolver* or specified whether Latricia/Dub happened to own one........)

I too am curious as to what the authorities have uncovered. From what they said--Dub/Chance were possibly the victims of foul play--but the fact they haven't charged anyone or released any names leads me to believe they got a detailed/semi-detailed rundown from someone who was involved with the murders, probably anonymous too and they're now trying to verify everything, but just can't find the bodies (which, again, would explain why they haven't released any names/filed any charges).

At this point, I feel like someone - whether it be Latricia's ex or another party - hired at least 2-3 people to kill Latricia and wanted to explicitly frame Dub for it (doing so would also require Dub to be killed, which is why you'd need at least 2 people for the job).

When it comes to the phone call at the truck, I don't think it was a simple case of "hey, I did it..........the job is done". I think whoever was in the truck was told the party on the other end that he killed Chance along with Dub and wanted instructions on how to dispose of the bodies and/or where (that's the only explanation I could think of as to why the call lasted so long - simply informing someone the job is done, or getting pay-off instructions wouldn't take 10mins).

Was this truck ever processed though? Was the blood type analyzed and possibly compared to Dub/Chance? Were there fibers, fingerprints or other forensic evidence recovered? Also, could the phone call be traced (i.e. could the number/party on the other end be conclusively determined) ??

To me, answering some of these questions would really help flesh things out

Someone came up with a good theory that Dub, being a trucker, might have known or gotten involved in the transport of drugs and that lead to the deaths.

I do think that Chance was used to control Dub. Prevent him from attempting to escape or fight back.

The ex-husband is an obvious suspect.. But, the only reason I think perhaps he might be a red herring is.. Do you think the ex is sophisticated enough to pull off the murder of three people and not leave any evidence implicating himself behind? A 'first time murderer' would have to be astoundingly lucky to pull that off.

Of course, this was the 80's/90's, a different time.. but I'm sure anything that had DNA available to be tested has been tested by this point.

I'm willing to bet many clues were left behind, but getting a grand jury to indict based on them may be the issue here.

Crystal Dawn, I'm sure you posted it somewhere here, but would you mind posting again the link or location to your blog?

Btw, there is a 1997 unsolved disappearance is Nova Scotia, Canada of a woman named Crystal Dawn. Her last name is Jack. Crystal Dawn, have you been hiding in plain sight? ;)

I'm willing to bet many clues were left behind, but getting a grand jury to indict based on them may be the issue here.

Maybe.. I just thing the odds of someone deciding to murder three people and not leave any clues behind that could be tied to them.. And not kill anyone else in the 20+ years afterwards.. Seems a stretch.

I think any clues left were from someone who can't be matched. This has the feel of one of those cases where 30 years later, a body is found and there's a DNA match or something.

But.. There's also the fact that we have no idea whatsoever what evidence the police have. It's pretty surprising how little info about this case is out there.

For all we know.. between the time Dub divorced Chance's mother and when he was dating Latricia.. Was he involved with anyone else? I mean, that person would have the same or similar motive as Latricia's ex. This is another case that i'd love to see the actual police files on. No doubt they're holding back some info so that if someone admits to it, there's a piece that only they would know.. But.. Sometimes, the lack of info makes the police seem incompetent.

Tons of blood in the truck, but it can't be tied to Chance or Dub.. I'd buy that in 1993.. But, it's 2019.. I presume that evidence still exists. Testing DNA against Chance's mother would tell whether it was Chance or not.. Dub still has sisters, I believe, so, test against them to tell if it's from him.

This case is the subject of my next blog. I'm talking in-depth with Chance's mother and you'll be surprised at what she has to say. :eek:

I am eager to read this! CrystalDawn you are a true UM superfan, thank you! I really appreciate the one you wrote about Dale Kerstetter.

This case is the subject of my next blog. I'm talking in-depth with Chance's mother and you'll be surprised at what she has to say. :eek:

My curiosity is piqued. And.. I hope this will shed some light on the darkness that is this case.

My guess here.. I don't think she has flowing things to say about Dub.. But, I'm going to be very surprised if she thinks he did this after all this time. She was married to the man.. So, perhaps she'd know better than us.. But, if she thinks he could just disappear to Mexico with Chance, and Chance wouldn't ever try to contact her.. I'm really curious to hear what leads her to that conclusion.

Crystal Dawn, I'm sure you posted it somewhere here, but would you mind posting again the link or location to your blog?

Btw, there is a 1997 unsolved disappearance is Nova Scotia, Canada of a woman named Crystal Dawn. Her last name is Jack. Crystal Dawn, have you been hiding in plain sight? ;)

One thing I can say for sure is that Chance moved to Nova Scotia and became Mike82 on this forum. :lol: The resemblance to my school pictures at the same age he went missing are uncanny (and no, I look nothing like it today).

I am eager to read this! CrystalDawn you are a true UM superfan, thank you! I really appreciate the one you wrote about Dale Kerstetter.

Thank you so much! I just came across this. I had a few other pressing articles that came up but I'm working on the Dub and Chance one now and it will be posted in the next week or two. I've been talking to Chance's mother and some new information on there!

I'm working on the Dub and Chance one now and it will be posted in the next week or two. I've been talking to Chance's mother and some new information on there!

Great article on the Wackerhagen case, CD! Lots of new, albeit heartbreaking, info to read.

First off, my heart absolutely breaks for Chance's mom, Gaye. Just reading CD's post makes me feel Gaye's heartache, love, guilt, and regret. I can't imagine what this last few decades must have been like for her.

As for the case, I have more questions than ever now. Did we know that Latricia was shot in bed? If we did, I either missed that or totally glossed over it. The fact that she was shot so many times shows it was a crime of passion. It was rage overkill. The fact that she was in her bed tells me she didn't see it coming at all.

That begs the question, how the hell are Dub and Chance involved? I firmly believe now that they are victims and were killed at the scene or shortly after Latricia was killed. The logical scenario is that Latricia's ex showed up to kill her, and Dub and Chance were already there or arrived home after but had already seen too much. I think they are innocent bystander victims in this story.

But why are Chance's footprints in the blood near Latricia? Why weren't all of them killed and left right there? Obviously the killer didn't try to hide Latricia's murder, so why remove Dub and Chance? The only thing I can come up with is that he thought by doing so he could frame Dub, and I guess that worked at least for a while. However, if it was to frame him, why leave his wallet, checkbook, etc. there? You would think the killer could have left it more ambiguous which would make Dub look more guilty. It also sounds like the amount of blood was WAY more than originally advertised, which definitely screams that Dub and Chance were victims.

Sadly, I think this is yet another case of SSTLEIS -- Sh**** Small Town Law Enforcement Investigation Syndrome. They didn't know what they were doing, zeroed in on the most obvious suspect, missed significant clues, and now will probably never solve this case.

I hope that at least Chance's remains can be found to give poor Gaye some closure, but sadly I doubt that will ever happen.

Great article on the Wackerhagen case, CD! Lots of new, albeit heartbreaking, info to read.

First off, my heart absolutely breaks for Chance's mom, Gaye. Just reading CD's post makes me feel Gaye's heartache, love, guilt, and regret. I can't imagine what this last few decades must have been like for her.

As for the case, I have more questions than ever now. Did we know that Latricia was shot in bed? If we did, I either missed that or totally glossed over it. The fact that she was shot so many times shows it was a crime of passion. It was rage overkill. The fact that she was in her bed tells me she didn't see it coming at all.

That begs the question, how the hell are Dub and Chance involved? I firmly believe now that they are victims and were killed at the scene or shortly after Latricia was killed. The logical scenario is that Latricia's ex showed up to kill her, and Dub and Chance were already there or arrived home after but had already seen too much. I think they are innocent bystander victims in this story.

But why are Chance's footprints in the blood near Latricia? Why weren't all of them killed and left right there? Obviously the killer didn't try to hide Latricia's murder, so why remove Dub and Chance? The only thing I can come up with is that he thought by doing so he could frame Dub, and I guess that worked at least for a while. However, if it was to frame him, why leave his wallet, checkbook, etc. there? You would think the killer could have left it more ambiguous which would make Dub look more guilty. It also sounds like the amount of blood was WAY more than originally advertised, which definitely screams that Dub and Chance were victims.

Sadly, I think this is yet another case of SSTLEIS -- Sh**** Small Town Law Enforcement Investigation Syndrome. They didn't know what they were doing, zeroed in on the most obvious suspect, missed significant clues, and now will probably never solve this case.

I hope that at least Chance's remains can be found to give poor Gaye some closure, but sadly I doubt that will ever happen.

First off, I LOVED what you said about feeling Gaye's pain. It was a very difficult story to write but I wanted people to feel the sadness of the case and everything Gaye goes through on a daily basis.

Yes I agree Todd! She was shot 6 times in bed, while she slept, sounds like a rage killing not something Dub did in the heat of an argument like they wanted you to believe.

Another thing that surprised me was that Latricia's house was very isolated at the end of a dead end road in the country. I was curious why the ex would admit to going to her house the day she was shot. The Ranger's theory was that he would have had to drive by a few neighbor's houses so he admitted to that in case they reported seeing his vehicle.

I agree, that he took Dub and Chance with them (possibly at gunpoint) and if you think about it, it worked perfectly. More than 20 years go by until he's even given a second look.

Here's the article if anyone wants to read it: https://lostnfoundblogs.com/f/dub-chance-wackerhagen-last-christmas

I wonder if modern DNA test could shine a light on whose blood it was all over the Christmas presents in the back of the truck? Back then they told Gaye that the blood was from two people who were related.

I wonder if modern DNA test could shine a light on whose blood it was all over the Christmas presents in the back of the truck? Back then they told Gaye that the blood was from two people who were related.

If I remember correctly, it's come out that at least some of the blood in the back belonged to Dub, which is why they've switched to thinking he's a victim, now.

If I remember correctly, it's come out that at least some of the blood in the back belonged to Dub, which is why they've switched to thinking he's a victim, now.

Thanks for the update.

I wonder if modern DNA test could shine a light on whose blood it was all over the Christmas presents in the back of the truck? Back then they told Gaye that the blood was from two people who were related.

I can see, if the evidence was preserved, running it to confirm things, but I would be absolutely shocked if it came back any other way than being Chance and Dub.

The part that I wasn't aware of.. Dub had a cell phone in his truck? I'm certain the timeframe has passed for getting those records, but the cell tower pings would probably have given an area to search or at least a direction. Seems pretty likely that the truck was used to transport them (or their bodies, at least) and subpoenaing the cell tower records would likely give at least a general area that the vehicle was in or direction it was traveling to.

back in the early 90's, there weren't as many towers, but since the truck was found in Austin proper.. That area likely would have had decent cell coverage, at least in the city.. So, they would have been able to tell where the truck came from into the city at least before winding up where it was found.

I can see, if the evidence was preserved, running it to confirm things, but I would be absolutely shocked if it came back any other way than being Chance and Dub.

The part that I wasn't aware of.. Dub had a cell phone in his truck? I'm certain the timeframe has passed for getting those records, but the cell tower pings would probably have given an area to search or at least a direction. Seems pretty likely that the truck was used to transport them (or their bodies, at least) and subpoenaing the cell tower records would likely give at least a general area that the vehicle was in or direction it was traveling to.

back in the early 90's, there weren't as many towers, but since the truck was found in Austin proper.. That area likely would have had decent cell coverage, at least in the city.. So, they would have been able to tell where the truck came from into the city at least before winding up where it was found.

Also my question if this was merely a robbery turned murder why were the Christmas presents still wrapped? If you are hurting that bad financially that you are willing to murder someone wouldn't you unwrap the presents and pawn them off if you could?

Also my question if this was merely a robbery turned murder why were the Christmas presents still wrapped? If you are hurting that bad financially that you are willing to murder someone wouldn't you unwrap the presents and pawn them off if you could?

There's no way this was a robbery. Latricia was shot dead in her sleep multiple times. That was a crime of passion all the way. Why overkill her and remove Dub and Chance if it was just a robbery? Plus Dub's wallet was found in his truck and I don't think anything was missing from the house.


The part that I wasn't aware of.. Dub had a cell phone in his truck? I'm certain the timeframe has passed for getting those records, but the cell tower pings would probably have given an area to search or at least a direction.

That's a good idea and I hope that was run down by LE. I have my doubts how effective that would be though. 1993 was still pretty early in the cellular game, and I wonder how much or how accurately you could use cell technology to track someone, especially considering Latricia lived out in the sticks.

That's a good idea and I hope that was run down by LE. I have my doubts how effective that would be though. 1993 was still pretty early in the cellular game, and I wonder how much or how accurately you could use cell technology to track someone, especially considering Latricia lived out in the sticks.

Depends on the number of towers. Have to have at least 3 for triangulation.. I think it's certainly possible that at that time, in a fairly major city such as Austin that it would have been possible. However.. You also have to consider that, as you said, it was pretty early in the cellular timeframe and there were nowhere near as many towers as there are now.

Plus, the fact that using them to triangulate a signal was, at best, a very new concept. And if this was a cell phone mounted in the vehicle, it's also possible that it was only on when the vehicle was on.

Have to remember, this is after the 'bag phones' of the 80's.. but it was also still a totally analog network, I believe.

Based on the indications that I get of the poor investigation done.. I highly doubt those records were obtained.

There's no way this was a robbery. Latricia was shot dead in her sleep multiple times. That was a crime of passion all the way.

That's very true

Judging by some of the posts in this thread, I’m starting to think I’m in the minority here, because I think Dub is the most likely perp. As others have pointed out, the shooting of Latricia bears all the hallmarks of a personal crime. It seems very unlikely a burglar would repeatedly shoot a woman in her bed, then leave after not taking anything. It also seems unlikely that a burglar would go to the trouble of taking Dub and Chance somewhere else to kill them, rather than just taking the simple approach and killing them at the scene.

Plus, we know that Latricia and Dub had a very contentious relationship with her alleging that Dub abused her. With all the evidence pointing to her death being a crime of passion and anger, it’s not hard to see how this points towards Dub even more. Crimes like these tend to be overwhelmingly perpetrated by a controlling, vengeful spouse or lover.

My theory is that Dub killed Latricia, then at some point, he went out into the woods or the wilderness, something like that, killed Chance and buried him, before turning the gun on himself. I can see it happening. Dub was very possessive and protective towards his son, and maybe he killed Chance rather than let him fall into someone else’s hands, justifying it as an act of mercy. As to why he killed himself afterward, the reasoning is quite obvious.

If Dub did all this, it’s not too far-fetched for the bodies to have not been found yet. As anyone will tell you, searching for a body out in the woods is like...well, I’d say it’s like a needle in a haystack, but in that scenario, you can just burn the hay and claim your needle right then and there. Probably can’t do that when searching the wilderness for someone.

The elements and wildlife can make short work of remains, reducing them to bones and scattering what’s left. Rain and snow play their parts and before long, it’s really hard to find much of anything.

Judging by some of the posts in this thread, I’m starting to think I’m in the minority here, because I think Dub is the most likely perp. As others have pointed out, the shooting of Latricia bears all the hallmarks of a personal crime. It seems very unlikely a burglar would repeatedly shoot a woman in her bed, then leave after not taking anything. It also seems unlikely that a burglar would go to the trouble of taking Dub and Chance somewhere else to kill them, rather than just taking the simple approach and killing them at the scene.

Plus, we know that Latricia and Dub had a very contentious relationship with her alleging that Dub abused her. With all the evidence pointing to her death being a crime of passion and anger, it’s not hard to see how this points towards Dub even more. Crimes like these tend to be overwhelmingly perpetrated by a controlling, vengeful spouse or lover.

My theory is that Dub killed Latricia, then at some point, he went out into the woods or the wilderness, something like that, killed Chance and buried him, before turning the gun on himself. I can see it happening. Dub was very possessive and protective towards his son, and maybe he killed Chance rather than let him fall into someone else’s hands, justifying it as an act of mercy. As to why he killed himself afterward, the reasoning is quite obvious.

If Dub did all this, it’s not too far-fetched for the bodies to have not been found yet. As anyone will tell you, searching for a body out in the woods is like...well, I’d say it’s like a needle in a haystack, but in that scenario, you can just burn the hay and claim your needle right then and there. Probably can’t do that when searching the wilderness for someone.

The elements and wildlife can make short work of remains, reducing them to bones and scattering what’s left. Rain and snow play their parts and before long, it’s really hard to find much of anything.

If Dub did it.. Which I don't see.. How did he get from his truck to whatever his final death location was without any witnesses?

Why would there be a significant amount of his blood in the back of the truck? Technically, we don't know it was his, we just know the blood was of two related people, but.. It's a fair assumption to make that it's his and Chance's.

I don't disagree that at the start of this case, Dub was and should have been a strong suspect.. But with the additional information.. The odds of it being him are very low.

The truck was most likely used to transport their bodies and then dumped. The question is.. Where were they killed? There's little to no indication they were killed at Latricia's house.. Latricia's house was about 30 miles from where the truck was found.. So, the odds are the bodies are somewhere between the two. Not a whole lot of woods between the two areas.. But there are a number of ponds.. Which would be a good location to dispose of bodies.

Dub was cleared by LE as a suspect, and labeled as a victim, many years after this occurred. I think that pretty clearly says he couldn’t be the murderer. Yes LE makes mistakes but usually it is the rush to judgement. Why say that now if he really did it?

I was on the fence for a long time on this but now I’m convinced that Dub and Chance were victims. We just don’t know why.

which season/episode was this case on?

which season/episode was this case on?

Season 7, episode 3

Season 7, episode 3


thanks!

I was on the fence for a long time on this but now I’m convinced that Dub and Chance were victims. We just don’t know why.

IF it was a murder then it was to frame Dub and make him look like the murderer. Her ex-husband said he was there earlier in the day, and they were going through a divorce/custody battle, so he's pretty suspicious. Either he wanted custody/didn't want her to win anything in the divorce, or if he was there earlier he could've seen Dub and flew into a jealous rage. Of course killing him ex-wife, and framing Dub so he could get custody and not lose anything in the divorce would've been the ideal situation for him (and it worked)

However, it seems difficult for one person to have pulled this off. If someone took Dub's van and parked it where it was found, then how did they get back to their own vehicle/home? How did one person move Dub by them-self from the van?

This was either a murder-suicide committed by Dub, or someone had planned this and got help from some other people.

When I initially started watching the Latricia White (nurse from TX) UM segment, I was pretty convinced that Dub (her bf) had killed her & run off somewhere with his son.

However, as the segment progressed - it did seem that both Dub & Chance may have been the victims of foul play as well, and that the killer(s) of all three of them was trying to make it look like Dub was the killer. Maybe that's why Dub & Chance weren't left at LW's house - i.e., to make it look like Dub was the culprit, and not the victim.

I.e., just because Dub had heated arguments with Latricia doesn't mean he murdered her....though I admit it doesn't mean he didn't, either.

It was also odd that Dub's car was found abandoned in a high crime area?! I wonder why.

The fact that Dub & Chance have not turned up since (and haven't obviously contacted any family members) could mean that they are deceased.

Hopefully both families will get closure at some point.