In other words, the ensemble was what made MTM such a great show and once you lost those two important pieces of the puzzle, MTM (https://www.neogaf.com/threads/why-did-the-mary-tyler-moore-show-get-so-many-spinoffs.1284191/) was never quite as good (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031125239/http://www.jumptheshark.com/m/marytylermoore.htm). And both those shows ended up (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031130434/http://www.jumptheshark.com/r/rhoda.htm) flopping (https://web.archive.org/web/20061031130604/http://www.jumptheshark.com/p/phyllis.htm) so it was all for naught.

Rhoda wasn't as successful as The Mary Tyler Moore Show, but I wouldn't consider it a flop.

I never understood why Phyllis got her own show. That was a colossal failure.

sorry but Rhoda is usually not my fav on MTM show - masculine NYC girl - no thanks

Phyllis - never have seen her show

They should have waited until MTM Show was cancelled... then any spin-offs would have been icing on the cake.

Rhoda wasn't as successful as The Mary Tyler Moore Show, but I wouldn't consider it a flop.

I agree, I wouldn't call Rhoda a failure either. But then I suppose I'm biased because I would say Phyllis was a mistake. I liked the character of Rhoda but I really didn't like Phyllis all that much.

Ed.

I remember liking them!

Rhoda having a show was a good choice. The marriage, divorce, then her dating again made for some good episodes. Phyllis however just wasn't likable enough to carry her own show.

Rhoda yes, Phyllis no. Lou Grant? Now that one was great.

Rhoda yes, Phyllis no. Lou Grant? Now that one was great.

Yeah I agree Lou Grant was a good show.

Both Rhoda and Phyllis were top ten shows. Rhoda lasted for Five seasons, I would hardly call that a flop. I have never heard anyone describe Rhoda as masculine. The MTM show continued to be an ensemble type show with high quality remaining, even with Rhoda and Phyllis leaving. They really were not gone, we saw even more of them when they each had their own series.

No, it was not a mistake.

I am not sure how you can say Rhonda is a flop since it lasted 5 seasons, if it flopped then it would only last 1 season