This is going to be heresy to a lot of boomers but the MTM show jumped the shark exactly when Mary placed the M on the ubiquitous wall of her ubiquitous apartment. As Mary suddenly became a feminist career women and all of a sudden supposedly secure in her job in so many ways work was the focus. Main characters Lou, Murry, Ted and Sue Ann became somewhat cloying and stock. Mary had her stock moves like disgust or crying in ways that were annoying. Georgette and Ted was finally too much, too saccharine. Chuckles Bites the Dust is an annoying one joke, the end episode is just too much.

The show was amazing when Mary lived in that super cool house and how she beat Rhoda out of the room when she had lived there for so long. And she was so guilty about doing it but kept the room. It was always better when the show focused on Mary's life outside of work, her relationship with Rhoda, her interaction with cool characters like the fireman or the wacky football player. There were not stock, cloying and annoying aspects to the show back then and the writing was so much more varied, creative and entertaining. And just for one thing I would have killed to live in that house with Mary.

I was just a kid when the Mary Tyler Moore Show ran originally but I think it never jumped the shark and was a great show until the end. But I'll admit it took me a little while to get used to Mary's new apartment when she moved LOL.

Ed.

I liked the show to the very end. Valarie Harper and Cloris Leachman went off to their own shows and their characters moved away, so naturally Mary's friends were her workmates. Couldn't really make a new best friend for Mary after Rhoda left. Georgette took up much of the slack I guess.

IMO the show NEVER jumped the shark; it was magnificent every single ep! It still sparkles to this very day.

A case can be made that the MTM show was the best show of the 70's (I'll admit it's a close call). In my opinion the show got stronger as the years went by, and you can't say that about many shows (All In the Family which is a strong contender for show of the decade did in my opinion jump the shark when Mike and Gloria moved out).

At first I thought that you were referring to the entire run of the show, because she had the M in her first apartment too when she first moved in.

I do not think that the show jumped the shark at all, but I too prefer the earlier episodes when Rhoda and Phyllis were around. (first 5 seasons)

Seven years is a long time for any sitcom, things do change.

I remember liking the show less when Mary switched apartments. But Mary was also sick with diabetes then, looked awful and didn't seem to have much energy.

MTM Show was good from beginning to end. It was even realistic in the finale when everyone but Ted was fired. Radio and Television Broadcasters are infamous for firing everyone and cleaning house and changing formats. That is what was sad, everyone lost their job, except for Ted, who deserved to lose his job.

I don't know that it completely jumped the shark, but after Rhoda left the show they concentrated too much on Georgette and Sue Ann for my liking.

When Lou Grant ran out of scotch at work, went crazy, forced himself on the Happy Homemaker and beat Ted Baxter to a bloody pulp with Mare crying saying "Oh, Mr. Graaaaant!"

That's when the show lost me.

IMO the show NEVER jumped the shark; it was magnificent every single ep! It still sparkles to this very day.

Agreed. No drop in quality whatsoever. The show, if anything, deepened like a fine wine since it could draw on the history of the characters as time went by and gave them new dimension.

Never jumped. Period.

I'm going to contradict myself here - while the MTM is one of my favourite shows ever, the later years are depressing.

Mary looks old at times, she has no close female friends and MTM becomes the Ted & Georgette show.

No matter how many times I watch MTM, I am shocked at how much MTM aged once she cut her hair. MTM was still was an attractive women though, even though in years 3-5 she looked so much older than in years 1-2.
But in year 6, especially in the episodes when MTM had that awful perm, it was depressing how old she looked. But once that perm was gone, she didn't look as bad.

In the final season there was an episode when Mary was hooked on sleeping pills. By this time, Mary had no close female friends to help her through the night. This would have been a better episode if Rhoda & Phyllis were still around.

Mary was only 40 (going on 41) when the MTM Show went off the air in 1977. But I agree that she looked older than her actual age, which I attribute to her diabetes, drinking, smoking, the stress of headlining a television show and a failing marriage to Grant Tinker. There was a lot of darkness under that smile of hers. I made a thread with no response on this, but I hope someone does a movie about MTM's life. She was really the definition of that Bible verse of "To gain the whole World yet lose your own soul."

I also think that 40 was a lot older in 1978 than 40 in 2018. People drink and smoke less, but eat more, so we are more youthful but fatter. The generation in their twenties now will be in their 40's and shocked how old the people their age looked. Seriously.

I'm going to contradict myself here - while the MTM is one of my favourite shows ever, the later years are depressing.

Mary looks old at times, she has no close female friends and MTM becomes the Ted & Georgette show.

No matter how many times I watch MTM, I am shocked at how much MTM aged once she cut her hair. MTM was still was an attractive women though, even though in years 3-5 she looked so much older than in years 1-2.
But in year 6, especially in the episodes when MTM had that awful perm, it was depressing how old she looked. But once that perm was gone, she didn't look as bad.

In the final season there was an episode when Mary was hooked on sleeping pills. By this time, Mary had no close female friends to help her through the night. This would have been a better episode if Rhoda & Phyllis were still around.

Personally, I feel Mary looked GREAT from start to finish. Who on this planet, then or now, looks the same at 40 as they did at 33? Nobody.

And I'm not sure how what she looked like affects when the show JTS anyway, but that's probably just me.

I do not think the show ever jumped the shark. I do agree that Mary did not look good in season 6. She has no eyebrows. Although I did miss Rhoda and Phyllis I loved Sue Ann.

Retro4Life
I know in the back of my mind posting about Mary aging would upset some, but I am being realistic and not mean-spirited. Neither Rhoda or Phyllis aged like Mary did. Or even Lou.
I'm not even the only one here who commented on her looks, but I seem to be the only one you took offense to.

However in year 6, there weren't as many Mary centered episodes which was another problem. It was the Ted & Georgette show. There were 2 episodes about Ted's problems in the bedroom, Lou sleeps with Sue Ann, and Mary forgives the guy who cheated on her. It's the MTM show, yet Mary seems to be the only one not getting any action.

Well, Ted was married to a woman young enough to be his daughter whose voice sounded like a four year old. It just seemed a bit creepy for lack of a better word. His wife on "Too Close For Comfort" was closer to his age and had a good chemistry. Georgia Engel was really beautiful as a young woman, but her voice, while unique was very childlike.

Mary was only 40 (going on 41) when the MTM Show went off the air in 1977. But I agree that she looked older than her actual age, which I attribute to her diabetes, drinking, smoking, the stress of headlining a television show and a failing marriage to Grant Tinker. There was a lot of darkness under that smile of hers. I made a thread with no response on this, but I hope someone does a movie about MTM's life. She was really the definition of that Bible verse of "To gain the whole World yet lose your own soul."

I also think that 40 was a lot older in 1978 than 40 in 2018. People drink and smoke less, but eat more, so we are more youthful but fatter. The generation in their twenties now will be in their 40's and shocked how old the people their age looked. Seriously.

I also think MTM spent too much time in the sun, which really damages your skin. Her skin was too tan for someone living in Minneapolis. This was before tanning salons were a thing.

I don't know about jumping the shark but the show changed for the worse after season 3. Mary seemed tougher and less feminine and the new opening really killed it for me.

I've just recently gotten into the show. I really adore the opening of the first 3 seasons. It's so inspiring seeing a young Mary running around wearing dainty, girly clothes and looking pretty but still being independent and very much her own woman.
In contrast I was sort of appalled by the the season 4 opening. I hated the the masculine pants suits and hated the hair and the awful tan. Her whole demeanor was different. She seemed cynical in that newer opening and was no longer "sweet". Was this to please the growing feminist climate at that time?
I really don't understand what happened between season 3 and 4 and even between season 2 and 3. It disappoints me.

When Lou Grant ran out of scotch at work, went crazy, forced himself on the Happy Homemaker and beat Ted Baxter to a bloody pulp with Mare crying saying "Oh, Mr. Graaaaant!"

That's when the show lost me.

This actually happened?

This actually happened?

No. Although Mr. Grant did have dinner with Sue Ann one night, had too much to drink, and Sue Ann took full advantage of it. Lou doesn't even remember it, and only knows because he woke up in Sue Ann's bed. We don't actually see that scene, just that Lou comes into work without his socks and hungover, and Mary figures out what happened.

It's in the Season 6 episode "Once I Had A Secret Love."

Fe_vvqFUFos

I am on season 5 now and Mary looks MUCH improved over season 4. She has more weight on her and just overall seems happier and healthier. Season 4 hair and overall look was a disaster! But it's either next season or season 7 where her hair goes bad again lol. I miss Rhoda. I guess I'll have to start watching her show.