I have seen plenty of discussion about how angry many of the criminals on this show make us but what about the ones who you feel some degree of sympathy for. Not saying they deserve a get out of jail free card but maybe they aren't as bad as portrayed

The name that comes to mind immediately is Eddie Wooten from the Cheryl Holland segment. He came across as someone who was very naïve, easily fooled and didn't fully grasp what he did. As far as I see it, Cheryl deserved a far harsher sentence than he did.

Great and very interesting topic.

For me it's probably Garey Goff from the Ann Sigmin segment. I think she manipulated both him and Charlie Sigmin throughout their relationships. It's possible that he didn't even know that he had a warrant out for his arrest prior to the UM airing of the segment, since the original unedited segment seemed to indicate that law enforcement officials believed that Goff could have shot Charlie in self defense. In any event, he turned himself in after viewing the segment and plead guilty. And then he publicly appealed for Ann Sigmin to turn herself in, which she never has. So to a certain degree, I do feel some form of sympathy or compassion for him.

Great and very interesting topic.

For me it's probably Garey Goff from the Ann Sigmin segment. I think she manipulated both him and Charlie Sigmin throughout their relationships. It's possible that he didn't even know that he had a warrant out for his arrest prior to the UM airing of the segment, since the original unedited segment seemed to indicate that law enforcement officials believed that Goff could have shot Charlie in self defense. In any event, he turned himself in after viewing the segment and plead guilty. And then he publicly appealed for Ann Sigmin to turn herself in, which she never has. So to a certain degree, I do feel some form of sympathy or compassion for him.

You know...I was hard-pressed to think of one. But yes. I agree with that.

Michael Scott Martin

None of them.

Michael Scott Martin

You think he actually committed the robbery?

Michael Scott Martin
Even if he was guilty (which I have little doubt he is innocent), I am still in disbelief in the sentence he got even for Texas. Goodness, people who ruthlessly murder multiple innocent victims get less prison time here in Canada.

Another name I thought of was Margo Freshwater. The fact that she lived a 'normal' life after escaping prison is no surprise, not even to the authorities. She might have been guilty for being stupid and naive, but I don't see as her a cold blooded killer committing first degree murder. Of course, you could point out she DID break out of prison but any sane, normal person in her situation would too. No matter what way you slice it, she got a ridiculously long sentence.

You think he actually committed the robbery?

I don't think he committed the robbery but the supermarket incident from a month prior was what got him convicted to the life sentence so he wasn't perfect to the law

I only count this one because there was an update on Amazon and the killer was unknown through the entirety of the original UM run. I don't feel sorry for him per se, but if I had to choose I would say Eric Windhurst, the killer of Danny Paquette.

I'm certainly not an advocate for revenge murder or vigilante action--or even the death penalty, for that matter--but I can be sympathetic to wanting to have some sense of justice about Paquette sexually abusing his stepdaughter. It will never be right under any circumstance, but I do think it came from a place of wanting to protect his friend.

I think I may have thought of one: Whoever killed Tom Kueter (assuming someone did. I wasn't aware South Dakota police closed this one last year, ruling his death a suicide, however his wife collected on his benefits, so I think there's still some uncertainty).

I have always believed Kueter was responsible for the murder of Tina Marcotte and I believe he got what was coming to him.

And on that note, I remember someone suggesting that Ken McElroy's unsolved murder would have made a good one for UM, but I strongly disagree with that statement. Ken McElroy was among other things, a child rapist and arsonist who constantly taunted and threatened the police. That is one unsolved murder I am perfectly content to see go unsolved.

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I've always felt a little sorry for Chad Noe. It always seemed to me that Chad was weak willed and his mother and grandmother basically ran his life. He's definitely an evil SOB who obviously participated in the deaths of Wendy, Cynthia, and Lisa, but I just don't know how much choice he had in that after a life spent under Beverly and Ida's influence.

Maria Armstrong. It was clear she needed psychiatric help, and was not getting it.

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I've always felt a little sorry for Chad Noe. It always seemed to me that Chad was weak willed and his mother and grandmother basically ran his life. He's definitely an evil SOB who obviously participated in the deaths of Wendy, Cynthia, and Lisa, but I just don't know how much choice he had in that after a life spent under Beverly and Ida's influence.

I felt this with Paul Pollis. His in laws especially the MIL seemed like a nightmare to deal with. While I think he’s an arrogant SOB, I don’t think he murdered Charlotte

I felt this with Paul Pollis. His in laws especially the MIL seemed like a nightmare to deal with. While I think he’s an arrogant SOB, I don’t think he murdered Charlotte

While I disagree about Paul's guilt, I do agree that Charlotte's mother was a nightmare to deal with. I would not have wanted her for a mother-in-law.

If wonder if the killer of Father John Kerrigan might fit into this category, given that one of the most prominent theories is that this was a vigilante killing brought by Kerrigan's alleged history of sexual abuse and the killer might have been one of his victims or a relative of a victim.

If wonder if the killer of Father John Kerrigan might fit into this category, given that one of the most prominent theories is that this was a vigilante killing brought by Kerrigan's alleged history of sexual abuse and the killer might have been one of his victims or a relative of a victim.

Solid point.

If wonder if the killer of Father John Kerrigan might fit into this category, given that one of the most prominent theories is that this was a vigilante killing brought by Kerrigan's alleged history of sexual abuse and the killer might have been one of his victims or a relative of a victim.

I would have a hard time prosecuting this individual, not gonna lie...

While I disagree about Paul's guilt, I do agree that Charlotte's mother was a nightmare to deal with. I would not have wanted her for a mother-in-law.


I still roll my eyes when I see Charlotte's mother in the segment. I don't know why she thought it was a good idea to tell the show she talked to her adult daughter fifteen (I am guessing here, I can't remember the exact number) times a day on the phone. It just makes her unlikable, and look to be needy/controlling.

But on the other hand, given the short life of her daughter, I guess she is thankful for all those conversations.

Paul Pollis could possibly the most tragic figure featured on UM. If he's innocent, the accusations and innuendo could have driven him to the life he's lived (drugs & prison).

I still roll my eyes when I see Charlotte's mother in the segment. I don't know why she thought it was a good idea to tell the show she talked to her adult daughter fifteen (I am guessing here, I can't remember the exact number) times a day on the phone. It just makes her unlikable, and look to be needy/controlling.

But on the other hand, given the short life of her daughter, I guess she is thankful for all those conversations.

She said 10 to 12 to 14 times a day. Which is a lot. Also, when she says she "called at 10 then again at 10:10 then again at 10:20 and she was immediately worried that something is wrong because no one is at home to take her calls. As you said, it makes her seem very demanding.

If someone called 10 to 12 to 14 times a day, I would want to throw my phone out the window if I couldn't block them otherwise :lol:

If wonder if the killer of Father John Kerrigan might fit into this category, given that one of the most prominent theories is that this was a vigilante killing brought by Kerrigan's alleged history of sexual abuse and the killer might have been one of his victims or a relative of a victim.

This is the perfect choice for this thread. The thing that really drives home the vigilante theory is the fact that the person or persons that killed Kerrigan didn’t take his money. I think he had several thousand dollars in cash (possibly hush money) on his person at the time of his death and every dollar of it was accounted for when they searched his vehicle and discovered his wallet after he went missing. If I had to pick one murder case featured on UM that I don’t ever want to see solved, its this one.

Your podcast on this case (and Father Reynaldo Rivera) was great. I highly recommend it to anybody that hasn’t checked it out yet.

This is the perfect choice for this thread. The thing that really drives home the vigilante theory is the fact that the person or persons that killed Kerrigan didn’t take his money. I think he had several thousand dollars in cash (possibly hush money) on his person at the time of his death and every dollar of it was accounted for when they searched his vehicle and discovered his wallet after he went missing. If I had to pick one murder case featured on UM that I don’t ever want to see solved, its this one.

Your podcast on this case (and Father Reynaldo Rivera) was great. I highly recommend it to anybody that hasn’t checked it out yet.

Yes to everything you just said. As weird as it is to say this, I don't want this mystery solved. That guy left a trail of abuse towards children and he surely ended up paying for it. I'm not wasting any sympathy on him.

I read online once that investigators don't think his history of abuse towards children ties in to his disappearance. And that astounded me. To me, there's no other sensible explanation. I can't stretch reality wide enough to think the most well timed psycho killer could have crossed paths with this guy in a town that looks smaller than a mall...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Ronan_from_North_Crow.jpg/400px-Ronan_from_North_Crow.jpg

I'm actually surprised there haven't been more documented stories like this. You constantly hear stories of priests being accused of sexual abuse towards children and they never get stripped of their title. They always just get transferred to a different church in a different area. That doesn't solve the problem. It just gives them access to a whole new set of children to abuse. A relative or loved one of one of Father Kerrigan's victims knew this and went out of his/her way to make sure he never hurt another child, IMO.

Yes to everything you just said. As weird as it is to say this, I don't want this mystery solved. That guy left a trail of abuse towards children and he surely ended up paying for it. I'm not wasting any sympathy on him.

I read online once that investigators don't think his history of abuse towards children ties in to his disappearance. And that astounded me. To me, there's no other sensible explanation. I can't stretch reality wide enough to think the most well timed psycho killer could have crossed paths with this guy in a town that looks smaller than a mall...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Ronan_from_North_Crow.jpg/400px-Ronan_from_North_Crow.jpg

I'm actually surprised there haven't been more documented stories like this. You constantly hear stories of priests being accused of sexual abuse towards children and they never get stripped of their title. They always just get transferred to a different church in a different area. That doesn't solve the problem. It just gives them access to a whole new set of children to abuse.

I agree with all of you. As far as I'm concerned the killer isn't a "bad guy" but a hero. It's sick to say, but I'll say it, if he wasn't stopped then who knows how many more children would've been abused and mentally/physically scarred for life. Shuffling him around wasn't going to get him any help at all. He would've kept going on, and the church would've kept hiding it.

Hopefully it was a parent who got justice for their child.

This is the perfect choice for this thread. The thing that really drives home the vigilante theory is the fact that the person or persons that killed Kerrigan didn’t take his money. I think he had several thousand dollars in cash (possibly hush money) on his person at the time of his death and every dollar of it was accounted for when they searched his vehicle and discovered his wallet after he went missing. If I had to pick one murder case featured on UM that I don’t ever want to see solved, its this one.

Your podcast on this case (and Father Reynaldo Rivera) was great. I highly recommend it to anybody that hasn’t checked it out yet.

Thank you. The more I learn about Father Kerrigan, the more I wish UM hadn't tried to connect Father Reynaldo Rivera's murder with his since it sounds like Father Rivera was a genuinely good man who was seemingly targeted at random and had no dark secrets.

Thank you. The more I learn about Father Kerrigan, the more I wish UM hadn't tried to connect Father Reynaldo Rivera's murder with his since it sounds like Father Rivera was a genuinely good man who was seemingly targeted at random and had no dark secrets.

Agreed.

I also became more interested in this case from your podcast of it. I had only the faintest of faint memories of watching it on UM when I was 8 and then it was about 25 years before I saw it again.

It would be interesting to hear some kind of statement from a loved one of Father Kerrigan. Have no family members ever spoken up when his trail of abuse was finally revealed to the public? Silence and no support on his behalf, even going back as far as the UM segment kind of speaks volumes.

Thank you. The more I learn about Father Kerrigan, the more I wish UM hadn't tried to connect Father Reynaldo Rivera's murder with his since it sounds like Father Rivera was a genuinely good man who was seemingly targeted at random and had no dark secrets.

It's easy to see why Unsolved Mysteries did this though. I am guessing Kerrigan's past wasn't known at the time of the airing; this thread is the first I've heard of it.
As a lifelong Catholic, this segment always saddened me. But I can't agree with the people who say they don't want this murder solved. There is very little that excuses murder, not even this, and the person who did it needs to be brought to justice. I don't think it will ever happen, however, and as it is, the murderer has lived with it for more than 30 years if they are still alive. They might never find Father Kerrigan's remains.

It's easy to see why Unsolved Mysteries did this though. I am guessing Kerrigan's past wasn't known at the time of the airing; this thread is the first I've heard of it.
As a lifelong Catholic, this segment always saddened me. But I can't agree with the people who say they don't want this murder solved. There is very little that excuses murder, not even this, and the person who did it needs to be brought to justice. I don't think it will ever happen, however, and as it is, the murderer has lived with it for more than 30 years if they are still alive. They might never find Father Kerrigan's remains.

I keep saying, Father Kerrigan is at the bottom of Flathead Lake. And no one is talking...

I agree, Kerrigan is at the bottom of the lake.

As far as the money he had on him, maybe he thought he was meeting someone who threatened to expose him unless he paid them. So he thought he was going there to give the hush money but the person said "I don't want your damn money" and killed him.

I don't think anyone will talk and I think most of the town knows what happened. Another UM case is that of Scott Rossiter, the Ontario cop that was shot and killed by David O'Neil. O'Neil's body turned up later in a shallow grave and the cops said it was gang related. Case closed. Yeah right. The word on the street is that the cops took care of him for shooting one of their own, but no one will ever talk.

If someone called 10 to 12 to 14 times a day, I would want to throw my phone out the window if I couldn't block them otherwise :lol:

That detail is enough to make me wonder if Charlotte didn’t deliberately disappear, just so she can get some breathing room. Her mom sounds barely a step above Ma Bates in terms of clinginess.

I don't think anyone will talk and I think most of the town knows what happened. Another UM case is that of Scott Rossiter, the Ontario cop that was shot and killed by David O'Neil. O'Neil's body turned up later in a shallow grave and the cops said it was gang related. Case closed. Yeah right. The word on the street is that the cops took care of him for shooting one of their own, but no one will ever talk.
As someone obsessed with this show, this is actually one segment I have never seen or even heard of: that's even more surprising since this is a rare Canadian segment. I would say this is a case of those who live by the sword, die by the sword. Perhaps another gang member took him out to keep the heat off themselves as the police are obviously going to investigate such a case very carefully.

I don’t know if he falls into the “bad guy” category but Mac McDonald comes to mind. His daughter made him seem like a dead beat who just abandoned her & her mother. I do feel that Mary Helen’s mom made it difficult for Mac especially with threats involving law inforcement. I think he was genuinely sorry for his mistake & he seemed to care deeply about his daughter.

His obituary was recently posted on here & a daughter was never mentioned so perhaps they couldn’t form a relationship?

I don’t know if he falls into the “bad guy” category but Mac McDonald comes to mind. His daughter made him seem like a dead beat who just abandoned her & her mother. I do feel that Mary Helen’s mom made it difficult for Mac especially with threats involving law inforcement. I think he was genuinely sorry for his mistake & he seemed to care deeply about his daughter.

His obituary was recently posted on here & a daughter was never mentioned so perhaps they couldn’t form a relationship?

Call me ignorant (as someone definitely not adopted) but I am actually glad in a way to see her lukewarm response. Other than criminals getting light sentences, there's nothing that makes me more sick than hearing adoptees on UM loudly proclaiming "I found my mother/father!" What a huge slap in the face to their REAL (i.e. adopted) parents.

As someone obsessed with this show, this is actually one segment I have never seen or even heard of: that's even more surprising since this is a rare Canadian segment. I would say this is a case of those who live by the sword, die by the sword. Perhaps another gang member took him out to keep the heat off themselves as the police are obviously going to investigate such a case very carefully.

It was a pretty creepy, albeit short segment IMO. I seem to remember an update showing a lonely field in some cold, windy time of the year, which is apparently where they found O'Neil's body. I did read some news article at some point describing a number of one-percenter type biker crimes in that particular rural area over the years, however--including the murder of David O'Neil. I'm with you: I always thought it seemed like a live by the sword, die by the sword kind of thing.

Dennis Depue.

Just kidding.

Dennis Depue.

Just kidding.

One of the creepiest looking dudes ever, I remember being totally freaked out by him when I seen his segment when I was a kid. Still feel uncomfortable watching it now as an adult LOL.

While I would agree with not wanting his case solved and his killer probably being one of the few people I'm okay with them getting away with murder, I want to point out something here:
It is easy for us to make those connections, but I have a tendency to believe police when they say that they believe the killing was unrelated to the accusations against him. Most likely the police are keeping some evidence secret from the scene which would go on to prove such a thing. Maybe there was some kind of short note left behind, or maybe there was a message on his answering machine... who knows? There have been quite a few times with cases like this where the simplest answer isn't quite right because we in the public don't have all the information.

Having recently rewatched the Colleen Ritter segment, I feel slightly sorry for Rick Church. I have no sympathy for the crimes he committed and I’m glad he was caught, but the segment leaves me with the impression that Colleen was probably a narcissist who drove Rick crazy emotionally.

There was a lot of emphasis placed on the fact that Rick was always a quiet, unassuming guy and something went terribly wrong inside his brain that caused him to commit the murders. As somebody who experienced the excruciating pain of a narcissistic relationship and the mental and psychological abuse that goes along with it, it does seem to me that Rick was experiencing a lot of those symptoms. Colleen’s arrogant demeanor throughout her interview did little to convince me otherwise, either.

Again, I will disclaim that I have no sympathy for what he did and I’m glad he is in prison. But I do feel bad for the guy if he got involved with an evil bitch who threw his life in a bad direction.

I’m trying to think of some from the show but it’s hard. I guess Rob? ;)

Robin’s and Meg’s examples were on point.

I don’t feel bad for guys that murdered people because their girlfriend or someone else were mean to them/hurt their feelings. I certainly don’t feel bad for Maria Armstrong due to the fact that she ran away and hid from the police. I do wish she got the help that she needed before she killed someone. I guess you could say that about a lot of people. I guess I feel worse for the victims and their families.

Having recently rewatched the Colleen Ritter segment, I feel slightly sorry for Rick Church. I have no sympathy for the crimes he committed and I’m glad he was caught, but the segment leaves me with the impression that Colleen was probably a narcissist who drove Rick crazy emotionally.

There was a lot of emphasis placed on the fact that Rick was always a quiet, unassuming guy and something went terribly wrong inside his brain that caused him to commit the murders. As somebody who experienced the excruciating pain of a narcissistic relationship and the mental and psychological abuse that goes along with it, it does seem to me that Rick was experiencing a lot of those symptoms. Colleen’s arrogant demeanor throughout her interview did little to convince me otherwise, either.

Again, I will disclaim that I have no sympathy for what he did and I’m glad he is in prison. But I do feel bad for the guy if he got involved with an evil bitch who threw his life in a bad direction.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Care to reply to my post with words instead of emojis, Meg? I'd be willing to listen.

I don’t feel bad for guys that murdered people because their girlfriend or someone else were mean to them/hurt their feelings. I certainly don’t feel bad for Maria Armstrong due to the fact that she ran away and hid from the police. I do wish she got the help that she needed before she killed someone. I guess you could say that about a lot of people. I guess I feel worse for the victims and their families.

I don't feel any sympathy for the crimes he committed, either. But the thread asks which bad guys you feel sorry for, and I answered.

I guess I am just annoyed by the double standard...I feel like the case would be seen in a much more sympathetic light if the shoe were on the other foot. I guess it is hard for our society to imagine men being on the other end of an abusive relationship, but I suppose I am biased because I was one.

I am a man who was engaged to a narcissistic sociopath, and I have experienced the torture and anguish first-hand. I can tell you it does horrible and unspeakable things to your mental health. I never had the urge to kill anybody (except myself), and I would never excuse such behavior. But I do feel bad for Rick if he got tangled up with an evil girl who drove him crazy, since I know what that is like. We will obviously never know what the whole story was, but knowing what I know, I strongly suspect Colleen was one of those women. This whole board is an exercise in speculation after all.

What kind of name is Mac McDonald?

I am a man who was engaged to a narcissistic sociopath, and I have experienced the torture and anguish first-hand. I can tell you it does horrible and unspeakable things to your mental health. I never had the urge to kill anybody (except myself), and I would never excuse such behavior. But I do feel bad for Rick if he got tangled up with an evil girl who drove him crazy, since I know what that is like. We will obviously never know what the whole story was, but knowing what I know, I strongly suspect Colleen was one of those women. This whole board is an exercise in speculation after all.

I once had an ex girlfriend who was almost certainly on the Cluster B spectrum (of which narcissism is part of) and I can completely relate to how partners like that can turn ordinary guys literally crazy. I won't get into details except that I started to see why some people would murder their partner and wisely made steps to extract myself from that situation.

Having said that I never once got the impression that Colleen was in anyway a narcissist or nothing less than a great person I would be happy to have as a sister and she showed great courage in her interview. When she talked about missing her parent's funeral you could see how hard she was holding back tears for example. I certainly have plenty of experience with narcissistic people (which is why I ended up in the relationship I did) and how highly skilled they are at fooling others but Colleen never once gave me that impression. I don't think Rick is the monster he is made out to be but I also think prison (or a psychiatric ward) is where he belongs.

I guess I am just annoyed by the double standard...I feel like the case would be seen in a much more sympathetic light if the shoe were on the other foot. I guess it is hard for our society to imagine men being on the other end of an abusive relationship, but I suppose I am biased because I was one.

If Colleen murdered Rick Church's family, I don't think anyone would have been more sympathetic to her. There is no evidence that Rick Church was being abused emotionally or physically. The segment pretty much spells out what happened: she broke up with him around the same time he found out his parents were separating, and then he snapped. I fail to see how you could glean anything about Colleen's personality from an eleven minute segment where she was clearly the victim.

Care to reply to my post with words instead of emojis, Meg? I'd be willing to listen.

You gleaned from what amounts to probably five minutes of arguably benign interview with a young woman whose family was murdered by her clearly disturbed boyfriend that she is arrogant and a probable narcissist.

You'll get it someday. I hope.

the segment leaves me with the impression that Colleen was probably a narcissist who drove Rick crazy emotionally.

Colleen’s arrogant demeanor throughout her interview did little to convince me otherwise, either.

Wow. :eek:

I have nothing but admiration for Colleen. She gave one the strongest most powerful interviews in the history of the show, in my humble opinion. The part that always struck me the most was when she mentioned being strong for the sake that Richard had already taken so much from her at that point and she refused to let him take any more. This was a 17 year old girl. If a person, any person, had come into MY house, stabbed MY parents to death and had tried to kill both me and my sibling, I would not have been able to show even an ounce of that much restraint in talking about said person.

A much better example, I think, would be Franklin Floyd. Watch his interview. Now THAT is a clear cut example of a person being arrogant and narcissistic through an interview.

What kind of name is Mac McDonald?
Double scotch?

In a sense, I have some sympathy for John Mooney; from different sources, including a "City Confidential" episode, T.K. Harty should have been painted in a far less rosy light than he was on Unsolved Mysteries.

I remember reading that T.K. Harty gave Mooney an eviction notice on the very day one of his family members died, and T.K. knew it.

Doesn't mean T.K. deserved to die, but still...

In a sense, I have some sympathy for John Mooney; from different sources, including a "City Confidential" episode, T.K. Harty should have been painted in a far less rosy light than he was on Unsolved Mysteries.

I remember reading that T.K. Harty gave Mooney an eviction notice on the very day one of his family members died, and T.K. knew it.

Doesn't mean T.K. deserved to die, but still...

I can kinda see this one a little. Another poster made me a disc with that CC episode, and apparently T.K. had an unnecessarily nasty streak.

I always held sympathy for Michael Scott Martin. Innocent or guilty, the prosecutor Brad Lollar could not have been more unsure about his guilty verdict in said case. And based on what I’ve gleaned from numerous reads of multiple articles, actually feel for Ann Sigmin.

I always held sympathy for Michael Scott Martin. Innocent or guilty, the prosecutor Brad Lollar could not have been more unsure about his guilty verdict in said case. And based on what I’ve gleaned from numerous reads of multiple articles, actually feel for Ann Sigmin.
This might be another exception for me. The detective had a conflict of interest and it’s evident that he did not get a fair trial. He definitely paid for his past violent actions.

This might be another exception for me. The detective had a conflict of interest and it’s evident that he did not get a fair trial. He definitely paid for his past violent actions.

I mean this is ridiculous. He was watching Battlestar Gallactica.

And based on what I’ve gleaned from numerous reads of multiple articles, actually feel for Ann Sigmin.

I'm intrigued. I've never come across any articles on this case although I'm very interested in it and would be interested to know what you found.

UM really presented this one with Charlie as a well-loved victim and Ann as a wacked-out tramp. I always thought there could be much more to it than that.

I'm intrigued. I've never come across any articles on this case although I'm very interested in it and would be interested to know what you found.

UM really presented this one with Charlie as a well-loved victim and Ann as a wacked-out tramp. I always thought there could be much more to it than that.

+1.

Ann Sigmun was messed up, imho.

If there's more to the story, I would love to hear it. Definitely been wrong about these cases before...

Having recently rewatched the Colleen Ritter segment, I feel slightly sorry for Rick Church. I have no sympathy for the crimes he committed and I’m glad he was caught, but the segment leaves me with the impression that Colleen was probably a narcissist who drove Rick crazy emotionally.

There was a lot of emphasis placed on the fact that Rick was always a quiet, unassuming guy and something went terribly wrong inside his brain that caused him to commit the murders. As somebody who experienced the excruciating pain of a narcissistic relationship and the mental and psychological abuse that goes along with it, it does seem to me that Rick was experiencing a lot of those symptoms. Colleen’s arrogant demeanor throughout her interview did little to convince me otherwise, either.

Again, I will disclaim that I have no sympathy for what he did and I’m glad he is in prison. But I do feel bad for the guy if he got involved with an evil bitch who threw his life in a bad direction.

You seem like you just want to blame Colleen for Rick being a possessive a-hole. Nothing a woman does warrants something like this. She had a right to break off a relationship with a controlling freak.

I don't feel any sympathy for the crimes he committed, either. But the thread asks which bad guys you feel sorry for, and I answered.

I guess I am just annoyed by the double standard...I feel like the case would be seen in a much more sympathetic light if the shoe were on the other foot. I guess it is hard for our society to imagine men being on the other end of an abusive relationship, but I suppose I am biased because I was one.

I am a man who was engaged to a narcissistic sociopath, and I have experienced the torture and anguish first-hand. I can tell you it does horrible and unspeakable things to your mental health. I never had the urge to kill anybody (except myself), and I would never excuse such behavior. But I do feel bad for Rick if he got tangled up with an evil girl who drove him crazy, since I know what that is like. We will obviously never know what the whole story was, but knowing what I know, I strongly suspect Colleen was one of those women. This whole board is an exercise in speculation after all.

I'm a woman who has been abused by men most of my life. It still wouldn't excuse something like that. What is wrong with you?