In one episode talking with Buzz about girls coming across like he knows it all. Then with Bubba he thinks protection is a motorcycle helmet. Sad his character didn't have consistency.

Well his character was consistent in the NBC era, and in the syndication era. Just like how the NBC Naomi was different from syndicated Naomi...and Mama, as well.

In the NBC episodes Vint was a bit goofy but still had decent intelligence. In the syndicated episodes he becomes an all out moron.

Exactly. The change in Vinton was very noticeable and was not beneficial at all to the character.

Exactly. The change in Vinton was very noticeable and was not beneficial at all to the character.

But so many people love Vinton. I like him, but he's never been a favorite character of mine (in either guise).

But so many people love Vinton. I like him, but he's never been a favorite character of mine (in either guise).

I’m the same way. I like both versions of Vint but he never was an absolute favorite of mine.

He was never one of my favorite characters, but I vastly prefer the Vint and Naomi of the NBC years. They seem like two almost totally different people between NBC and syndication. Vint is portrayed as too much of a dolt and when Naomi started screeching ... ugh.
That said, I much prefer the syndicated Thelma over the NBC version. That and the lighting/much brighter atmosphere are pretty much the only two things I flatly would take from the syndicated years over the NBC episodes.

Vint was such a manchild in the syndicated years, I don't think he could have survived without Mama lol, But in the NBC episodes he seemed perfectly capable of taking care of himself....he just sorta settled in to a routine living with Mama. In the NBC years he acted like he always wanted to leave Mama's house but just didn't for whatever reason, but in the syndicated years he acted like he didn't want to leave.

I just think the changes to Vint and Naomi were part of the master plan to make Thelma the clear, dominant star of the show in the syndicated years. On NBC, Vint, Naomi, Fran and Ellen (and, of course, Eunice) all went at Thelma pretty directly and the argument could be made, and has been here, that Thelma wasn't even the clear star of the show until syndication.
In syndication, everyone else was much more deferential to her.
Whether those changes were for the better or worse is debatable, but given how popular the show was in syndication compared to when it was on NBC, it's tough to argue that they made the wrong move.

I just think the changes to Vint and Naomi were part of the master plan to make Thelma the clear, dominant star of the show in the syndicated years. On NBC, Vint, Naomi, Fran and Ellen (and, of course, Eunice) all went at Thelma pretty directly and the argument could be made, and has been here, that Thelma wasn't even the clear star of the show until syndication.
In syndication, everyone else was much more deferential to her.
Whether those changes were for the better or worse is debatable, but given how popular the show was in syndication compared to when it was on NBC, it's tough to argue that they made the wrong move.

That is TOTALLY true!! This is why I would have loved SO MUCH to see how Eunice and Mama would have interacted on a syndicated episode! And what a syndicated version of Eunice would have been like!

Eunice was never one to back down from Mama in fights and Eunice usually always DOMINATED Mama when it came down to it. So I wonder what a fight between Mama and Eunice would have been like in a syndicated episode? Would Eunice defer to Mama like everyone else does or would she still give Mama a good challenge and even dominate her?

I just remember on the Carol Burnett Show, Eunice would yell, SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP OLD LADY!" And Mama usually would, I just wonder how syndicated Mama would react to Eunice yelling that to her.

The only possible answer we ever got was in "Pomp and Circumstance," but I don't even count that. Not only was "Eunice" only heard on the phone, it wasn't really her at all. One of those questions that's fun to debate partly because the debate is endless. :)

It seemed like not only Vint but Eunice changed as well. I don't think Eunice would be mean enough not to see Bubba or even talk to him which is what happened in the syndicated era.

I like Vint and Naomi as a whole in both versions. Vint was more macho in the NBC years but he was funny in syndication.

I think we can also take a clue from Sins of a Mother...even though that was a flash back, things were still being portrayed in syndicated manner.

Honestly, I've always said, had Eunice been in a syndicated episode, I think she might have been a "dark Lucy" type. I think her character would have been toned down greatly.... Just from clues we get from Eunice's last appearance in season 2 in Rashomama, I thought Eunice was VERY toned down in comparison to how she was in her previous 4 episodes. In her other 4 episodes she stole the whole show and they were all about HER, but in RashoMama she moreless was just a normal supporting character, I'd say that trend would be even more if she were in syndicated episodes.

I think Eunice and Mama would still have QUICK fights and spats in the syndicated episodes but not those long, drawn-out, dramatic fights about something that happened 30 or 40 years ago like in the old days.

Good take Little Faerie. Totally agree, especially about Rashomama. It's a great episode and while Eunice does the blow up moments, she is vastly toned down.
We can always say Ed and Eunice visited during the syndicated years but those didn't make it on camera ... :D

I just think the changes to Vint and Naomi were part of the master plan to make Thelma the clear, dominant star of the show in the syndicated years. On NBC, Vint, Naomi, Fran and Ellen (and, of course, Eunice) all went at Thelma pretty directly and the argument could be made, and has been here, that Thelma wasn't even the clear star of the show until syndication.
In syndication, everyone else was much more deferential to her.
Whether those changes were for the better or worse is debatable, but given how popular the show was in syndication compared to when it was on NBC, it's tough to argue that they made the wrong move.

Apparently, the producers felt that the "ensemble" casting of the NBC years was "too intellectual" for average viewers to understand.

I personally prefer the network version, but I like both. Though funny, the syndicated years were too formulaic for me, with the same five characters in every single episode (unless there was a rare exception with Iola not appearing, which I think happened at least once).
The NBC shows were more diverse, focusing on different members of the family with the others, including Thelma, taking turns as supporting players in a manner of speaking. I definitely agree that they were more sophisticated and less outlandish (as evidenced by how Vint and Naomi were portrayed). The casting was definitely superior, including the quality of guest stars.

Good take Little Faerie. Totally agree, especially about Rashomama. It's a great episode and while Eunice does the blow up moments, she is vastly toned down.
We can always say Ed and Eunice visited during the syndicated years but those didn't make it on camera ... :D

Yeah I'm pretty sure Ed and Eunice made off-screen visits. One in particular, in the episode, "I do I don't" when they all have daydreams of their lives married to their potential loves, They all return from a wedding and Vint mentions to Mama's teacher, "You finally got to meet the entire Harper clan" I wanna think possibly Ed and Eunice were there and had to get right back to Florida afterwords...the whole clan would have definitly included Eunice and Ed, BUT many seem to think Vint was just referring to the immediate family who were local, like Effie, Cora and maybe Ellen.

I have seen clips of Eunice and Mama preforming a sketch and Mama looks like she does in the syndicated episodes and Ed looks much older...Eunice is wearing glasses! If I had to guess I'd say this would have been around the early 90s, but it was just a short clip on some doc I was watching.... I dunno if this was a post Mama's Family sketch or what.... I also have a cousin who told me she remembers something about Mama visiting ed and eunice in florida! I dunno if she was serious or not, so who knows!

I personally prefer the network version, but I like both. Though funny, the syndicated years were too formulaic for me, with the same five characters in every single episode (unless there was a rare exception with Iola not appearing, which I think happened at least once).

Yes, Iola was absent from a few shows in the beginning of the syndicated run, and Naomi was absent twice! The excuses for Naomi's absences were away visiting family, and away at a grocery convention.


The NBC shows were more diverse, focusing on different members of the family with the others, including Thelma, taking turns as supporting players in a manner of speaking.

I love that about the network years, too.

Yeah I'm pretty sure Ed and Eunice made off-screen visits.

They definitely did. Bubba tells Mama in the graduation episode, "Just once I'd like for Mom and Dad to visit without you gettin' Mom all riled up!"


I also have a cousin who told me she remembers something about Mama visiting ed and eunice in florida! I dunno if she was serious or not, so who knows!

Mama was never shown in Florida. Your cousin may be thinking of the "Family" sketch on "The Carol Burnett Show" where Mama, Ed, and Eunice visited Philip out in California. Or maybe she's thinking of the trip to Hawaii. But she never visited Ed and Eunice in Florida on screen.

They definitely did. Bubba tells Mama in the graduation episode, "Just once I'd like for Mom and Dad to visit without you gettin' Mom all riled up!"




Mama was never shown in Florida. Your cousin may be thinking of the "Family" sketch on "The Carol Burnett Show" where Mama, Ed, and Eunice visited Philip out in California. Or maybe she's thinking of the trip to Hawaii. But she never visited Ed and Eunice in Florida on screen.

I'm not sure but I know Carol has done other shows and other specials post Mama's Family, so it makes me wonder if they MIGHT have done a Mama's Family/Family sketch on one of those that depicts Mama visiting Ed and Eunice in Florida?

Because I have seen a clip of Eunice, Ed and Mama together and as I said they all look considerably older, and Eunice is wearing glasses. It makes me wonder if there was a sketch like this, possibly, from one of Carol's newer shows in the 90s, when she attempted to bring her show back.

Because I have seen a clip of Eunice, Ed and Mama together and as I said they all look considerably older, and Eunice is wearing glasses. It makes me wonder if there was a sketch like this, possibly, from one of Carol's newer shows in the 90s, when she attempted to bring her show back.

I've never heard of anything like that.

I've never heard of anything like that.

I know there are some pics SOMEWHERE from this sketch clip I saw....one pic depicts Eunice sitting beside a typewriter and she's wearing glasses, reading type bifocals that sit on the end of your nose. There is also a pic on the back of the Carol Burnett 25th anniversary special of Eunice and Mama sitting beside each other on a sofa and Mama has her "syndicated Mama" look, and Carol looks older than in her old show, it looks like it would be early to mid 90s maybe.

I'm wanting to think that MAYBE Carol and Vickie did a private Eunice and Mama sketch for the audience on the 25th anniversary show MAYBE, and perhaps it was not aired but some pics and clips managed to surface, b/c I know they did dress up as the characters for that special.

I know there are some pics SOMEWHERE from this sketch clip I saw....one pic depicts Eunice sitting beside a typewriter and she's wearing glasses, reading type bifocals that sit on the end of your nose. There is also a pic on the back of the Carol Burnett 25th anniversary special of Eunice and Mama sitting beside each other on a sofa and Mama has her "syndicated Mama" look, and Carol looks older than in her old show, it looks like it would be early to mid 90s maybe.

I'm wanting to think that MAYBE Carol and Vickie did a private Eunice and Mama sketch for the audience on the 25th anniversary show MAYBE, and perhaps it was not aired but some pics and clips managed to surface, b/c I know they did dress up as the characters for that special.

Hmm, or maybe they were promotional photographs for the special?

As far as I know, the only "Family" things I haven't seen are the "Divorce" sketch (2nd sketch of season 11), and the one they did at an honor for Carol where they used a substitute for Vicki as Mama in a "Family" sketch (maybe that was a Kennedy Centers one?).

Hmm, or maybe they were promotional photographs for the special?

As far as I know, the only "Family" things I haven't seen are the "Divorce" sketch (2nd sketch of season 11), and the one they did at an honor for Carol where they used a substitute for Vicki as Mama in a "Family" sketch (maybe that was a Kennedy Centers one?).

I am SO HOPING the Divorce sketch surfaces at some point, b/c I'm eager to see if that line of dialogue is it in that I remember, I remember from my childhood watching a sketch where Eunice and Mama are in a fight, Eunice is all upset and crying and Mama yells, "FOR CRYING OUT LOUD EUNICE!!" And Eunice snaps back, "FINE I WILL CRY OUT LOUD!" And starts screaming and crying to the top of her lungs! I can hear this so vividly in my head! Since this is the only sketch I've yet to see ~in adulthood ~ it has to be in this one or if it's not I remembered wrong and didn't hear it at all! lol

As far as the clips I mentioned, I'm pretty sure they would not be from that episode, b/c Harvey was in them and he looked a LOT older, it looked like something from more recent times.

I am SO HOPING the Divorce sketch surfaces at some point, b/c I'm eager to see if that line of dialogue is it in that I remember, I remember from my childhood watching a sketch where Eunice and Mama are in a fight, Eunice is all upset and crying and Mama yells, "FOR CRYING OUT LOUD EUNICE!!" And Eunice snaps back, "FINE I WILL CRY OUT LOUD!" And starts screaming and crying to the top of her lungs! I can hear this so vividly in my head! Since this is the only sketch I've yet to see ~in adulthood ~ it has to be in this one or if it's not I remembered wrong and didn't hear it at all! lol

As far as the clips I mentioned, I'm pretty sure they would not be from that episode, b/c Harvey was in them and he looked a LOT older, it looked like something from more recent times.

I just can't picture Harvey reappearing as Ed again since he wasn't fond of playing him in the first place.

Yes, hopefully that divorce sketch will surface somewhere. If the "Ed leaves Eunice" sketch has FINALLY appeared (but the title "Visit From Dan" is so anti-climactic since no one cares about that part of the sketch, lol), then there is hope for the sole remaining one to surface as well. As far as I'm concerned, the only true, organic "Family" material that's left for me to collect is that one divorce sketch. Thank goodness for the "Password" appearances, and Eunice's surprise appearance on "The Tim Conway Show".

But for now, I'm still basking in the glow that Ed leaving Eunice has FINALLY showed up!!

Why did Harvey not like playing Ed? I've read that the Mama's Family version of the character was considerably different than in the Carol Burnett Show.
I didn't realize he played Ed only three times in the NBC years (The Wedding-Part 2, Cellmates and Positive Thinking). That said, Carol Burnett was in just five NBC episodes and appeared by voice in another.

Why did Harvey not like playing Ed?

I don't know. Vicki mentions it either in interviews or her book, or both.


I've read that the Mama's Family version of the character was considerably different than in the Carol Burnett Show.

Of Mama, definitely. But Ed?? He was pretty much the same. It was interesting getting to see him interact with Vint and Naomi on MF though.


I didn't realize he played Ed only three times in the NBC years (The Wedding-Part 2, Cellmates and Positive Thinking). That said, Carol Burnett was in just five NBC episodes and appeared by voice in another.

Yup, Ed was just a drop in the bucket in the whole series of MF.

Only asking about Ed as I have seen it written in a few places that he was more mild mannered on Mama's Family than in the CBS. CBS preceded me and I haven't seen many of its sketches outside legendary stuff like the dentist skit.
Wikipedia (take it for what it's worth) says: "Among other things, Ed is a fiercely ill-tempered, slovenly, unsuccessful buffoon in The Family sketches. In his appearances on Mama's Family, however, the intensity of the character is toned down and he is more of an affable, buffoonish dolt."

Yes, Ed had more of a fierce temper. Ed unloaded on Mama several times telling her, "SHUT YOUR MOUTH OLD LADY!!" sometimes. Something that would have never happened on Mama's Family.

Only asking about Ed as I have seen it written in a few places that he was more mild mannered on Mama's Family than in the CBS. CBS preceded me and I haven't seen many of its sketches outside legendary stuff like the dentist skit.
Wikipedia (take it for what it's worth) says: "Among other things, Ed is a fiercely ill-tempered, slovenly, unsuccessful buffoon in The Family sketches. In his appearances on Mama's Family, however, the intensity of the character is toned down and he is more of an affable, buffoonish dolt."

Ah. Well, that's true, but he barely appeared on MF. In "Positive Thinking" his screen time is really more that of a glorified cameo. Of the 3 times he was on, his biggest appearance was in "The Wedding Part II".

Ah. Well, that's true, but he barely appeared on MF. In "Positive Thinking" his screen time is really more that of a glorified cameo. Of the 3 times he was on, his biggest appearance was in "The Wedding Part II".

I wonder why they made Eunice's house look totally different in Mama's Family? Seems they could have matched it up better.

I know Mama's looks different too, but it could be argued you were just seeing the reveres side of Mama's house in the Family Sketches, since ppl entered from the left instead of the right like in Mama's Family.

They were both just different. Just however they decided they wanted things to look for the new show (they had no way of knowing we would have the "Family" sketches for keeps on something called "DVD" years down the road to notice all the details of the Mama universe :lol: ).

I dunno where, but I THOUGHT on the uncut version of Positive Thinking that Eunice's living room was briefly shown...I thought I remembered a scene where Eunice walks in her front door with the groceries, then walks through her living room and into the kitchen where she finds Ed looking for something to it, and it seemed like her living room looked BIZARRE!! More like Mama's living room but nothing live I've seen before lol But I can't find that scene now.

Naomi started to change probably about half-way through the first season. She didn't always screech, but when she did... LOL And just the way she would talk- with some weird accent- did the showrunners ask her to do that?

Vint's bulb, as noted, absolutely got dimmer in the syndicated years, right off the bat.

Naomi started to change probably about half-way through the first season. She didn't always screech, but when she did... LOL And just the way she would talk- with some weird accent- did the showrunners ask her to do that?

Well they all had those "Raytown accents", lol. Naomi tried putting a sultry spin on hers.

I don't think of her as changing in season 1. She was pretty constant in the network years, but when they went to syndication she had a brief period of change for about the first 3 or so episodes where she was in the process of going from "network Naomi" to "syndi Naomi".

And it's interesting how Sonja basically went through 3 phases in the network years: tuned-out Sonja, tomboy Sonja, and dolled-up Sonja, lol.

I actually meant to say halfway through the third season- must have been thinking first season of syndication. :) Though Naomi did soften a tad as the NBC era progressed, compared to when she first appeared.

Yes, Sonja did make her mark in terms of transformations. It's also funny as some episodes were shown out of filmed order- for instance, I think we see dolled-up Sonja in one and then tomboy Sonja in the next? :D

The show got broader in syndication and I think it helped. Usually sitcoms get broader and sillier after time and it's sign they're running out of ideas and are on the way out. Here the show just became more fun. It was a smart move and not done out of desperation.

The only other show I can think of that happening was Gilligan's Island, but there might be more. Although those were also broad characters to begin with and cartoon-like too. Again, it all became just more fun. Usually sillier means worse.

Also Ken Berry and the others deserve credit for being about to adjust their characters and still make them work.

Ive been rewatching my Mamas Family DVDs and I'd never noticed how, in season 2, similar Mama is to what she becomes in the syndi. years. Naomi though, to me, still seems much more "take no crap".

I thought Naomi was still more like NBC Naomi until about mid way through season 3. Naomi even says "damn" in a season 3 episode...which was odd b/c to my knowledge in the syndicated episodes, Mama, who becomes basically all-powerful, is the only one allowed to utter a 4-letter word.

Yeah, about midway through season 3, Dorothy's portrayal of Naomi started to change some. She did become less tough with Mama thereafter, which is why I liked the fantasy episode, when Iola- as Vint's wife, modeled after Naomi- hurls some good insults Mama's way. :lol:

Yeah, about midway through season 3, Dorothy's portrayal of Naomi started to change some. She did become less tough with Mama thereafter, which is why I liked the fantasy episode, when Iola- as Vint's wife, modeled after Naomi- hurls some good insults Mama's way. :lol:

I like how when they switch Naomi and Iola, even though they were swapped, they STILL retained their basic essence in personality....like Naomi, even though dressed like Iola, still retained her main color YELLOW, and talked about having beer in the fridge, something Iola would not have had.

And Iola was dressed like Naomi, but still in pink, and making crafts lol


I think the insults that "Naomiized Iola" was throwing Mama's way were really from Iola's personality... I don't think Iola would put up with as much from Mama as later episodes Naomi would... We've seen Iola exploded on Mama a few times lol

I think the insults that "Naomiized Iola" was throwing Mama's way were really from Iola's personality... I don't think Iola would put up with as much from Mama as later episodes Naomi would... We've seen Iola exploded on Mama a few times lol

Well, but also, Iola had always been their neighbor, so she had seen Naomi fight with Mama plenty of times and "give it back to her" back when Naomi was feistier.

Well, but also, Iola had always been their neighbor, so she had seen Naomi fight with Mama plenty of times and "give it back to her" back when Naomi was feistier.


I guess we have to assume that Iola was still coming around during the NBC years, but it's just SO HARD to imagine season 1 Thelma being friends with Iola and running around with her lol I mean in the early season 1 episodes, the family ~including Vint ~ was SOOO hostile, I just cannot picture Iola even being welcome in the house.

Can you imagine Mama and Vint being in the middle of one of their very heated arguments in early season 1 and Iola popping in with her cheerful, "Knock knock!" Vint was such a hothead HIMSELF, I could almost picture him telling Iola to GET OUT! lol

Yep, Iola and Mama exchanged some heated words at times. :D

Speaking of Iola coming around- who was Tommy to her? She never mentioned him in the syndicated years, did she?

Yep, Iola and Mama exchanged some heated words at times. :D

Speaking of Iola coming around- who was Tommy to her? She never mentioned him in the syndicated years, did she?


I would assume a nephew perhaps. Of course the 1st life of the show and the 2nd life were almost from 2 totally different worlds, so the characters may not be canon exactly. Like in the NBC episodes Effie is Mama's sister I think, but in the Syndicated episodes she is Carl's.

And in the show's 1st life, they are only mentioned as "The Boylens" I think possibly Iola's name was mentioned ONCE in a later NBC episode, but I'm not totally sure about that... Seems I remember Mama saying something like, "That crazy Iola next door"

Tommy Boylen could have been Iola's nephew or cousin, or even her very little brother, as outrageous as that would be, lol. But yeah, we have to remember he was named as a character before Iola was conceived as a character.

in the NBC episodes Effie is Mama's sister I think, but in the Syndicated episodes she is Carl's.

Effie was never Mama's sister; at least, she was never named as such, and we were never led to believe she was. She could possibly have been Carl's sister, or, as "Effie Crowley," she could have been Mama's cousin who married one of Mama's multiple brothers, so then she would be Effie Harper that way too. Just a theory, lol.


And in the show's 1st life, they are only mentioned as "The Boylens" I think possibly Iola's name was mentioned ONCE in a later NBC episode, but I'm not totally sure about that... Seems I remember Mama saying something like, "That crazy Iola next door"

No no, Iola was never mentioned in the NBC shows (even though I haven't watched in a while, I know this show like the back of my hand having grown up watching my tapes of it over and over and over, lol). She was not created until syndication. "The Boylens" were never mentioned collectively, either. Only Ms. Boylen was seen once and mentioned once (MAYBE twice, i.e. "that crazy Ms. Boylen", but I'd have to check), and Tommy Boylen mentioned once:

Buzz: "I'm goin' over to Tommy Boylen's house 'n beat 'im up!"

Mama driving: "Hey Ms. Boylen!"

Frannie: "Well then why don't you go over to Ms. Boylen's and rinse out your hair?"
Mama: "Are you nuts?? That woman thinks I got nat'rally curly hair!"

:lol:

Tommy Boylen could have been Iola's nephew or cousin, or even her very little brother, as outrageous as that would be, lol. But yeah, we have to remember he was named as a character before Iola was conceived as a character.



Effie was never Mama's sister; at least, she was never named as such, and we were never led to believe she was. She could possibly have been Carl's sister, or, as "Effie Crowley," she could have been Mama's cousin who married one of Mama's multiple brothers, so then she would be Effie Harper that way too. Just a theory, lol.




No no, Iola was never mentioned in the NBC shows (even though I haven't watched in a while, I know this show like the back of my hand having grown up watching my tapes of it over and over and over, lol). She was not created until syndication. "The Boylens" were never mentioned collectively, either. Only Ms. Boylen was seen once and mentioned once (MAYBE twice, i.e. "that crazy Ms. Boylen", but I'd have to check), and Tommy Boylen mentioned once:

Buzz: "I'm goin' over to Tommy Boylen's house 'n beat 'im up!"

Mama driving: "Hey Ms. Boylen!"

Frannie: "Well then why don't you go over to Ms. Boylen's and rinse out your hair?"
Mama: "Are you nuts?? That woman thinks I got nat'rally curly hair!"

:lol:


I used to watch the show religiously back in the 90s as a kid, I've seen some episodes lately but many I haven't, so I may not be remembering exactly right, some of it just seems like what I recall though lol

In the syndicated episodes I thought Effie was referred to "Effie Harper" and in an NBC episode I remember her in an answering machine saying, "This is Effie Crowley ....."

And yeah I could be remembering wrong but I just thought Iola was mentioned once in a very late NBC episode, I thought Mama called her "crazy Iola from next door"

I'm probably more familiar with the family sketches, and I know Mrs Boylen was mentioned in at least 2 Family Sketches.

I think Effie is Thelma's cousin. That would make Vint calling her "Aunt" technically wrong, but it happens in families. Something tells me she's a Crowley but I don't have any backup for that. The way Mama talks about her and the responsibility she takes for her when she fell off the roof or whatever made her forgetful, makes me think she's a blood relative. I don't think they ever mentioned she had a husband.

I think Effie is Thelma's cousin. That would make Vint calling her "Aunt" technically wrong, but it happens in families. Something tells me she's a Crowley but I don't have any backup for that. The way Mama talks about her and the responsibility she takes for her when she fell off the roof or whatever made her forgetful, makes me think she's a blood relative. I don't think they ever mentioned she had a husband.

Yeah she was definitly Effie Crawley in the NBC episodes, but I think she was mentioned as Effie Harper in the syndicated ones

I used to watch the show religiously back in the 90s as a kid

Same here.


In the syndicated episodes I thought Effie was referred to "Effie Harper" and in an NBC episode I remember her in an answering machine saying, "This is Effie Crowley ....."

Yeah, that's right.


And yeah I could be remembering wrong but I just thought Iola was mentioned once in a very late NBC episode, I thought Mama called her "crazy Iola from next door"

Nope, there was no Iola mentioned until she was a character in syndication.


I think Effie is Thelma's cousin. That would make Vint calling her "Aunt" technically wrong, but it happens in families. Something tells me she's a Crowley but I don't have any backup for that. The way Mama talks about her and the responsibility she takes for her when she fell off the roof or whatever made her forgetful, makes me think she's a blood relative. I don't think they ever mentioned she had a husband

Well she calls Effie her sister-in-law once in the syndicated years.

The way my mind works, while I know the character of Iola wasn't created yet during the NBC years, once I've seen the entire run of the show (or any show), it's inevitable for me not to think of the entire universe of the show even during the episodes before something happens (such as for Mama's Family, Iola and Bubba existing even during the NBC years).
It's part of the reason I always chuckle and say "there's Iola's mom!" jokingly during "Mama Learns to Drive," even though I know the woman isn't really Iola's mom because A) Iola hadn't been created yet and B) when she was, the description of Mrs. Boylen was nothing like the woman we saw.

The way my mind works, while I know the character of Iola wasn't created yet during the NBC years, once I've seen the entire run of the show (or any show), it's inevitable for me not to think of the entire universe of the show even during the episodes before something happens (such as for Mama's Family, Iola and Bubba existing even during the NBC years).
It's part of the reason I always chuckle and say "there's Iola's mom!" jokingly during "Mama Learns to Drive," even though I know the woman isn't really Iola's mom because A) Iola hadn't been created yet and B) when she was, the description of Mrs. Boylen was nothing like the woman we saw.


You are probably right in a way when you call her Iola's mom, since it's likely Iola was later created with the idea of being that woman's daughter.

But its like I said, I just cannot imagine EARLY NBC Thelma ever being friends with Iola. Possible season 2 NBC Thelma would have, but not season 1 lol It's just hard to even imagine Iola fitting into that serious, hostile universe...even though she apparantly was always around.


I usually look at it as THREE seperate phases of the Mama universe... there is the Family Sketch universe, the NBC universe and the Syndicated universe.....

In the Family Sketch universe, Eunice and Ed have 2 children, Bubba and Billy Joel. But in the NBC episodes I think Bubba did not exist, and Eunice and Ed seem to be a childless couple. Then of course in the syndicated episodes I think Eunice and Ed only have ONE child, as Bubba is ressurected.

But of course when you look back, I supposed you can tie it all together as long as there are no major contradictions....like I guess we could assume Bubba was in juvenile hall during the NBC years. And Iola was so upset about Vint getting married she didn't show up to the wedding lol

The way my mind works, while I know the character of Iola wasn't created yet during the NBC years, once I've seen the entire run of the show (or any show), it's inevitable for me not to think of the entire universe of the show even during the episodes before something happens (such as for Mama's Family, Iola and Bubba existing even during the NBC years).
It's part of the reason I always chuckle and say "there's Iola's mom!" jokingly during "Mama Learns to Drive," even though I know the woman isn't really Iola's mom because A) Iola hadn't been created yet and B) when she was, the description of Mrs. Boylen was nothing like the woman we saw.

Exactly, me too.


In the Family Sketch universe, Eunice and Ed have 2 children, Bubba and Billy Joel.

Billy Joe (who was first named Raymond in an early Family sketch).


But in the NBC episodes I think Bubba did not exist, and Eunice and Ed seem to be a childless couple.

I guess that's up to the viewer's interpretation. We only see them at home once, briefly, and Bubba could have been out anywhere (out with friends, or in a cell, who knows, lol).

Exactly, me too.




Billy Joe (who was first named Raymond in an early Family sketch).




I guess that's up to the viewer's interpretation. We only see them at home once, briefly, and Bubba could have been out anywhere (out with friends, or in a cell, who knows, lol).


Well putting it all together now, yeah I'm thinking Bubba was in Juvenile Hall during the NBC years. Its just at the time that the NBC episodes were being made, it seemed like Eunice and Ed weren't supposed to have any children. I just think they had probably planned on dropping the idea that Eunice and Ed had kids, it was kinda pointless since they were never shown.... UNTIL they got the idea to bring Bubba back

Well putting it all together now, yeah I'm thinking Bubba was in Juvenile Hall during the NBC years. Its just at the time that the NBC episodes were being made, it seemed like Eunice and Ed weren't supposed to have any children. I just think they had probably planned on dropping the idea that Eunice and Ed had kids, it was kinda pointless since they were never shown.... UNTIL they got the idea to bring Bubba back

I don't know, that's a 4-year span (season 1 taping in 1982, season 3 in 1986). When I watch the first syndicated episodes it feels like he hasn't been in "juvie" for 4 years. IIRC though they don't specify a time period, so we fans can just think of it however we want. They may actually reference a time period in "Farewell, Frannie", I just can't recall at the moment.

I don't think there was, 80s. IIRC, the only time frames I recall being mentioned are that Bubba can't leave the state for one year and that Fran had died the Thursday before the events of the episode. It's not even mentioned how long Ed and Eunice had been in Florida.
In any case, four years is a heck of a long stretch at juvenile hall.
To Little Faerie's earlier point, that's always the "reason" I had for Iola not being at the wedding lol. With the entire show universe taken into account even at that early stage, that's a plausible explanation.

I don't think there was, 80s. IIRC, the only time frames I recall being mentioned are that Bubba can't leave the state for one year and that Fran had died the Thursday before the events of the episode. It's not even mentioned how long Ed and Eunice had been in Florida.
In any case, four years is a heck of a long stretch at juvenile hall.

Ah yes, good points. When watching the episode, I always get the feeling that Ed and Eunice have just very recently moved to Florida, like sometime over that summer.

Ah yes, good points. When watching the episode, I always get the feeling that Ed and Eunice have just very recently moved to Florida, like sometime over that summer.


This is a little thing, but yeah I paid close attention to details when I was watching the show.

I took a liking to flamingos b/c of Mama's obsession with them lol

But in the episode where Iola has a new friend, Arlene; Iola introduces Arlene to Mama and Arlene compliments Mama's ceramic flamingo pair on her table to which Mama replies, "Those are the first 2 flamingos I ever got, they were a gift from my daughter Eunice from Florida!" BUT in Farewell Franny Mama walks outside and the 2 Flamingos in her yard are already there,, YET Mama said she'd not heard a word from Eunice since she'd moved to Florida!

This is a little thing, but yeah I paid close attention to details when I was watching the show.

Me too. I know the entire series by heart.


But in the episode where Iola has a new friend, Arlene; Iola introduces Arlene to Mama and Arlene compliments Mama's ceramic flamingo pair on her table to which Mama replies, "Those are the first 2 flamingos I ever got, they were a gift from my daughter Eunice from Florida!" BUT in Farewell Franny Mama walks outside and the 2 Flamingos in her yard are already there,, YET Mama said she'd not heard a word from Eunice since she'd moved to Florida!

The dialogue is:

Arlene: "I like your ceramic flamingo motif. They're such fun!"
Mama: "Aren't they? Actually, those are the first two I ever got." (before the rest of the line about Eunice, Millie and Willie, etc.)

So I always took that to mean those were the first two ceramic flamingos Mama ever got.

Me too. I know the entire series by heart.




The dialogue is:

Arlene: "I like your ceramic flamingo motif. They're such fun!"
Mama: "Aren't they? Actually, those are the first two I ever got." (before the rest of the line about Eunice, Millie and Willie, etc.)

So I always took that to mean those were the first two ceramic flamingos Mama ever got.


It could have been lol, so I'm wondering if Eunice is responsible for Mama's flamingo obsession? lol, In the syndicated episodes the house has flamingos everywhere, Naomi even mentioned, "I swear these things are multiplying!", In the NBC episodes I don't think there were any flamingos, Also in the NBC episodes I don't think everything was called "Ray ~something~" in town.

I always liked Ken Berry, particularly in Mayberry RFD. His character Vint was much more intelligent in the network version of Mama's Family. Unfortunately, for the syndicated version, his character mainly acts dimwitted. That's unfortunate because my mother won't watch this version because of this.