the dana point jane doe was ruled a suicide, she was the one who jumped and fell to her death in a suicide. she had no ID. She has never been ID. :crying:


what makes the dana point jane doe "spiritual" and mystical for me is not only is this apparently good looking girl from margins of society commit suicide and die alone but that :crying:
1- she died by jumping off a cliff :crying:
2- she died on a beach at night alone :crying:
3- she died by crashing waves :crying:

she didn't die immediately. she was alive for some time after the jump. :crying:

her last action before her life expired :crying:

she died making angels in the sand. :crying:

i kinda see that as a joan of arc mystical life. she had only $18 and change, she wore second-hand clothing. she had cavities.

i wonder as she looked up into the moonless night sky, she could hear the crashing of the ocean waves, her last thought was she is now free, she is now an angel. she is now after just 18 years of life, leaving it all behind.

kinda sad. :crying:

honestly if i were to die i kinda wanna die same place and doing the same thing, making a sand angel.

:hello :wazzup neognosis :) Welcome to this forum :) :D

Its ironic you start this thread because just a couple hours ago I was looking up the Dana Point Jane Doe :read:

When I last watched that segment recently it also occured to me that before she jumped off she was standing on a cliff in the dark with only the crashing waves and ocean making a sound , its quite a surreal experience standing on the shore at night on a deserted beach listening to the sound with only darkness ahead ....its a shame she stood there under such sad circumstances.

I have also wondered about whether she looked up into the dark sky and I would agree with your sentiment that maybe she felt she was about to be free as she was about to jump. Its a real sad story and her clothes have made me wonder about what her life was like and why she wound up in that situation...

:hello :wazzup neognosis :) Welcome to this forum :) :D

Its ironic you start this thread because just a couple hours ago I was looking up the Dana Point Jane Doe :read:

When I last watched that segment recently it also occured to me that before she jumped off she was standing on a cliff in the dark with only the crashing waves and ocean making a sound , its quite a surreal experience standing on the shore at night on a deserted beach listening to the sound with only darkness ahead ....its a shame she stood there under such sad circumstances.

I have also wondered about whether she looked up into the dark sky and I would agree with your sentiment that maybe she felt she was about to be free as she was about to jump. Its a real sad story and her clothes have made me wonder about what her life was like and why she wound up in that situation...

hey thank you. must be a mystical synchronicity.

it's possible to be "skeptical" in that after the fall she is in a lot of pain, and so she randomly moved her limbs that made impressions in the sand that the coronor's opinion was an angel, but in my imagination, she had a kind of heavenly experience.

yeah it is a surreal experience. i'm thinking of the mystical poem dark night of the soul by john of the cross.

in my imagination, she was going through a dark night of the soul, she picked the night on a moonless night to symbolize her spiritual struggles. creating an angel in the sand as a kind of light a kind of transformation a release from the pain and suffering of this world.

it is sad story and i also wonder what her life was like and what drove her to suicide. i wonder how no one can identify her no one seems to miss her. she appears only 18.

what made u think of her. ?

:hello :wazzup neognosis :) Welcome to this forum :) :D

Its ironic you start this thread because just a couple hours ago I was looking up the Dana Point Jane Doe :read: .

law of attraction? premonition? psychic? telepathy?

just a couple of days ago i recalled that episode in UM, and started to look it up.

Definitely some mystical synchronicity & telepathy :)

Yes, I agree with your thoughts about the moonless night symbolizing her soul and struggles at that time ....everytime I visualize her last moments on the cliff I just see and feel darkness , its almost haunting

As for what made me think about her , I cant put it precisely in words ..........but for some reason my thoughts suddenly shifted to her , she was pretty and young and yet so tragic , I have also recently been haunted by another young jane doe from Huntsville .....

I think about Dana Point Jane Doe whenever I am at the beach looking at the ocean, she is indeed mystical .....

Definitely some mystical synchronicity & telepathy :)

As for what made me think about her , I cant put it precisely in words ..........but for some reason my thoughts suddenly shifted to her , she was pretty and young and yet so tragic , I have also recently been haunted by another young jane doe from Huntsville .....

I think about Dana Point Jane Doe whenever I am at the beach looking at the ocean, she is indeed mystical .....
aterlife.

:talk: Yes I was referring to the Walker county Jane Doe , tragic case

There must be some form of afterlife , extra-sensory perceptions definitely point to there being something more to us beyond our flesh and bones and stories like DPJD do symbolize aspects and the meaning of life ....

Speaking of DPJD , given that she chose to end her life near the ocean I feel that maybe the sea or ocean had some symbolism (of maybe freedom and peace) to her thus she felt she could be free from the troubles of the world in the one place that meant something to her.

I am intrigued by your connecting the troubles in her soul to the moonless night of her fateful day because everytime I read or think of this case , I cant escape the thought of how dark it was on that cliff edge .....

:talk: Yes I was referring to the Walker county Jane Doe , tragic case

There must be some form of afterlife , extra-sensory perceptions definitely point to there being something more to us beyond our flesh and bones and stories like DPJD do symbolize aspects and the meaning of life ....

Speaking of DPJD , given that she chose to end her life near the ocean I feel that maybe the sea or ocean had some symbolism (of maybe freedom and peace) to her thus she felt she could be free from the troubles of the world in the one place that meant something to her.

I am intrigued by your connecting the troubles in her soul to the moonless night of her fateful day because everytime I read or think of this case , I cant escape the thought of how dark it was on that cliff edge .....

i made the connection in part b/c there are so many ways to commit suicide. so many. i mean why 4 am in the morning on a cliff far away from family and friends? i mean if a teen girl was going to commit suicide why not in the home in the bedroom by hanging?

why so far apart from friends neighbors classmates and family? why no ID? why at night? why by a beach?

I haven't been to that exact location but I've been near there and it is a beautiful and somewhat mystical place. I do wonder what her intentions were and if it was indeed a suicide but I can't help but think that she loved that area. Likewise the man that died in the New Mexico desert felt a spiritual calling to fight "the beast" and died in the elements. I love the natural beauty of the western United States.

I hope this jane doe is solved one day.

I haven't been to that exact location but I've been near there and it is a beautiful and somewhat mystical place.

Interesting stuff ! :)

I do wonder what her intentions were and if it was indeed a suicide but I can't help but think that she loved that area.

I hope this jane doe is solved one day.

I have also wondered about whether she had some kind connection with that coastline area ....maybe from when she was younger, or maybe she read and saw the beauty and she felt she had to visit it at some point ....

Likewise the man that died in the New Mexico desert felt a spiritual calling to fight "the beast" and died in the elements. I love the natural beauty of the western United States.



yes , absolutely :)


@ neognosis

Interesting questions you posed there , I think the answers to those questions would be that her home life was far from good and maybe her family just thought she ran away and never bothered to report her missing or if she was reported missing maybe the police thought she was a runaway which is why no connection and identification has been made in this case.....

Interestingly enough 9 years ago a lady who was buried as a Jane Doe in Florida only got identified after her sister finally filed a missing persons report in Iowa after not hearing from her since 1986 ........

This case fascinated me because of the way the character portrayed her. We aren’t even sure if she committed suicide yet the actress portrayed her as a sad lonely woman. (IMO)

We really don't know if she jumped or fell, or was even pushed (that might be a stretch as there would likely be evidence of another person left behind). I do wonder if she was planning to jump from the towers in Laguna Beach that she was trying to get to or if she had plans to meet someone.

Sometimes when looking on CP I see if I find anyone who resembles her. Hopefully she will be identified someday.

This case fascinated me because of the way the character portrayed her. We aren’t even sure if she committed suicide yet the actress portrayed her as a sad lonely woman. (IMO)

suicide best explains the facts of the case with the fewest assumption's (occam's razor) and is the official explanation after an investigation


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/94/Dana_Point_Jane_Doe2.jpg

We really don't know if she jumped or fell, or was even pushed (that might be a stretch as there would likely be evidence of another person left behind). I do wonder if she was planning to jump from the towers in Laguna Beach that she was trying to get to or if she had plans to meet someone.

Sometimes when looking on CP I see if I find anyone who resembles her. Hopefully she will be identified someday.

the best explains the facts of the case with the fewest assumption's (occam's razor) and is the official explanation after an investigation

is she likely jumped in a suicide, based on totality of evidence, circumstantial evidence, witness statements.

she had to climb over a fence in the middle of the night in near total darkness.

This case fascinated me because of the way the character portrayed her. We aren’t even sure if she committed suicide yet the actress portrayed her as a sad lonely woman. (IMO)

I think its most certainly a suicide because :
(a)the taxi driver driver described her as looking unhappy

(b) to get to the edge of the cliff you had to go over a fence so its most likely she went over it for a specific reason

(c) related to b - if you try and consider the other possibility things dont quite fit in e.g. an attacker would have had to have taken her over the fence which would have been a problem especially in the darkness and there would have been signs of a struggle ( of which there was none) instead all that was found near the cliff was a purse and soda can
(d) she was reported to have previously asked about tall buildings in the area

so if you add all that up it points towards suicide and less towards an accident or homicide ....

I haven't been to that exact location but I've been near there and it is a beautiful and somewhat mystical place. I do wonder what her intentions were and if it was indeed a suicide but I can't help but think that she loved that area. Likewise the man that died in the New Mexico desert felt a spiritual calling to fight "the beast" and died in the elements. I love the natural beauty of the western United States.

I hope this jane doe is solved one day.

if i were a multimillionaire i'd offer a $10, 000 reward for information (verified via dna, fingerprint, dental) as to her identity and life story.

i imagine there's a mystical aspect of dying near a beach with the crashing waves.

Interesting stuff ! :)



I have also wondered about whether she had some kind connection with that coastline area ....maybe from when she was younger, or maybe she read and saw the beauty and she felt she had to visit it at some point ....



yes , absolutely :)


@ neognosis

Interesting questions you posed there , I think the answers to those questions would be that her home life was far from good and maybe her family just thought she ran away and never bothered to report her missing or if she was reported missing maybe the police thought she was a runaway which is why no connection and identification has been made in this case.....

Interestingly enough 9 years ago a lady who was buried as a Jane Doe in Florida only got identified after her sister finally filed a missing persons report in Iowa after not hearing from her since 1986 ........

given she looks like this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/94/Dana_Point_Jane_Doe2.jpg

and was estimated to be a teenager and 18,
i'm surprised she couldn't find a boyfriend to help her out.

how many white females 18 years old who look as good as her live in poverty?

Interesting question neognosis , that recent artist rendition of her certainly paints a picture of a very pretty young woman :) however looking at the wording of her description based on her body when she was found the following words stood out for me:

- she had freckles on her face
-acne scars on her back
-dental fillings and she may have worn braces previously

now add to that the description of her clothes and I would hazard a guess and say she wasnt homecoming queen in her town .Her fair skin and freckles are an interesting point because some might find such qualities attractive in a woman some might not so it is very possible she didnt have someone loving to take care of her....

its also said she may have previously had a pregnancy or a D&C procedure. The D&C procedure raises all sorts of possibilities for speculation about her health....

There possible reasons about her living poverty , the 80`s werent all glamorous in some parts of america and she could have come from one such bad place and maybe something happened to her baby which might explain the sadness ......

Has anyone seen her info on doenetwork?

Yes I have, the report there also highlights another fascinating mystery about this case , the purse she left behind !

Interesting question neognosis , that recent artist rendition of her certainly paints a picture of a very pretty young woman :) however looking at the wording of her description based on her body when she was found the following words stood out for me:

- she had freckles on her face
-acne scars on her back
-dental fillings and she may have worn braces previously

now add to that the description of her clothes and I would hazard a guess and say she wasnt homecoming queen in her town .Her fair skin and freckles are an interesting point because some might find such qualities attractive in a woman some might not so it is very possible she didnt have someone loving to take care of her....

its also said she may have previously had a pregnancy or a D&C procedure. The D&C procedure raises all sorts of possibilities for speculation about her health....

There possible reasons about her living poverty , the 80`s werent all glamorous in some parts of america and she could have come from one such bad place and maybe something happened to her baby which might explain the sadness ......

IMO fair skin, freckles 18, "strawberry blonde" slender but "well developed" sounds like a pretty nice package.

i wonder if she had tan lines.

they speculate she had braces so i infer she must have very well aligned straight teeth.

how many white girls who look like that at 18 are "homeless"?

Has anyone seen her info on doenetwork?


yeah and also wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Point_Jane_Doe

The Dana Point Jane Doe was an unidentified woman who was believed to have committed suicide in 1987 by jumping off of a cliff in Dana Point, California. Her true identity has yet to be discovered.[1][2]

Physical description

Her body was discovered by joggers in the morning of 20 September 1987, within hours after her death. Examination indicated that she was a young Caucasian woman, between eighteen and twenty-three years old, standing at five feet three inches to five feet eight inches and weighed 127 pounds. Her hair was strawberry-blond or light brown and long, reaching the middle of her back. She had no tattoos, distinct scars or birthmarks, although she did have freckles and there were healed acne marks on her back.[3][4] She had pierced ears, dental fillings, an A positive blood type and may have carried a child at one time during her life.[4][2] It was also possible that she had braces at one time as well.[5] She wore a tan dress, men's underwear and turquoise-colored shoes, all of which were believed to have either been second-hand clothing or hand-me-downs.[4] At the top of the cliff, a can of Coca-Cola, a purse containing coins, a package of cigarettes and a map were found. A cab company's phone number was written on the map, which was later used by investigators to contact a driver who had apparently performed service to a female that matched her description.[1

The man who claimed to have driven the unidentified woman stated that she told him that her car had broken down (although no abandoned vehicles were located in the area) and she requested to be transported for as far as eighteen dollars would bring her, as she could not afford to be taken to Laguna Beach, California.[2] He described her to have appeared unhappy and did not speak often. Before this, the woman was seen at the cab company and had used the bathroom.[3] After dropping her off, the driver saw the decedent walking toward the cliff, which was the last time she was reported to have been seen alive.[4]
Death and investigation

It is believed that the woman climbed over a fence at the cliff and jumped.[6] Other theories include that she may have been pushed or accidentally fallen.[1] The purse in the Dana Point Jane Doe's possession was embossed with a woman's name, Carol Pinkham. Authorities proceeded to search for women who had the name, all of which were still alive. One told investigators that her purse, the same color as the one owned by the Jane Doe, was stolen twelve years earlier, in 1975.[3][5] Pinkham did not know who had committed the theft, and no person has ever been charged or identified as the thief.[7]

Yes I have, the report there also highlights another fascinating mystery about this case , the purse she left behind !

i wonder if her name really is carol l pinkham. i wish they could swab all carol l pinkham's dna. there is on intellus a couple of women with that name born in 1967 i wonder if maybe they are a sister to her.

DPJD also says her car broke down, which if true, means that there is an abandoned car somewhere in the area.

IMO fair skin, freckles 18, "strawberry blonde" slender but "well developed" sounds like a pretty nice package.



:lol: I knew it :lol: , I knew you or someone was going to say this the moment I mentioned that description .....



they speculate she had braces so i infer she must have very well aligned straight teeth.

how many white girls who look like that at 18 are "homeless"?

aligned straight teeth yes but she had fillings as well ...

As for the last question, I have seen pictures of many victims ,suicides, junkies, prostitutes etc who may well have been homeless and I would say I have seen a few could come close to fitting that description. I have doubts as to whether DPJD was indeed homeless, her general description and known prior activities certainly dont scream street person , I still think she had some place to call home but it wasnt a pleasant one ...

i wonder if her name really is carol l pinkham. i wish they could swab all carol l pinkham's dna. there is on intellus a couple of women with that name born in 1967 i wonder if maybe they are a sister to her.

DPJD also says her car broke down, which if true, means that there is an abandoned car somewhere in the area.

Interesting line of thinking you have, maybe her name was Carol ...

What does intellus say about the Carol Pinkham`s you found , in terms of their whereabouts ?

:lol: I knew it :lol: , I knew you or someone was going to say this the moment I mentioned that description .....



aligned straight teeth yes but she had fillings as well ...

As for the last question, I have seen pictures of many victims ,suicides, junkies, prostitutes etc who may well have been homeless and I would say I have seen a few could come close to fitting that description. I have doubts as to whether DPJD was indeed homeless, her general description and known prior activities certainly dont scream street person , I still think she had some place to call home but it wasnt a pleasant one ...

yeah there's your psychic telepathy esp powers going again.
:)

her clothing tho was described as second-hand, only $18, purse of unknown origin, men's underwear, cavities, no bra, etc.

it does appear though in her early years she was cared for.

maybe that's why she did this

http://blog.kidstravel2.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/blog_beach_angel.jpg


i wonder if she had suffered from mental illness like childhood schizophrenia or bipolar or mental retardation. i wonder if she finished school.

Interesting line of thinking you have, maybe her name was Carol ...

What does intellus say about the Carol Pinkham`s you found , in terms of their whereabouts ?

oh u have to pay money for that. there is a carol L pinkham born 1966 though.

Carol L Pinkham, born 1966
Carol L Pinkham was born on month day 1966, at birth place, California, to Eldridge.

http://www.myheritage.com/names/carol_pinkham


could be an older sister aunt friend neighbor

and was estimated to be a teenager and 18,
i'm surprised she couldn't find a boyfriend to help her out.

how many white females 18 years old who look as good as her live in poverty?

This has to be one of the top five stupidest comments I've ever read on this forum, and I'm not sorry for being frank about it. Appearance has no correlation to poverty. A boyfriend to help her out with what? Mental illness? Homelessness? Hunger? Poverty? Ain't no damn boyfriend gonna help anyone out with that.

Your bizarre attraction to this unfortunate woman freaks me out.

yeah there's your psychic telepathy esp powers going again.
:)



:) :blush:



her clothing tho was described as second-hand, only $18, purse of unknown origin, men's underwear, cavities, no bra, etc.

it does appear though in her early years she was cared for.


i wonder if she had suffered from mental illness like childhood schizophrenia or bipolar or mental retardation. i wonder if she finished school.

Bingo :D

I like your thinking on this one, if she was raised in care and maybe she was say bipolar or something like that then she could possibly have had strained relationships with those closest to her thus after she disappeared no one was bothered with her leaving home and hence she wasnt even reported as missing leading to her still not being identified upto today ........

its funny you mention bipolar because not long ago I read about an unsolved murder in Rochester,NY were the lady had bipolar and this strained her relationship with her family and she ended up on the streets doing drugs , looking disheveled (despite being very pretty), turning tricks and it ended horrifically ......whatever the case maybe with DPJD its possible she didnt have close relationships with those closest to her at the time of her suicide ..

:) :blush:



Bingo :D

I like your thinking on this one, if she was raised in care and maybe she was say bipolar or something like that then she could possibly have had strained relationships with those closest to her thus after she disappeared no one was bothered with her leaving home and hence she wasnt even reported as missing leading to her still not being identified upto today ........

its funny you mention bipolar because not long ago I read about an unsolved murder in Rochester,NY were the lady had bipolar and this strained her relationship with her family and she ended up on the streets doing drugs , looking disheveled (despite being very pretty), turning tricks and it ended horrifically ......whatever the case maybe with DPJD its possible she didnt have close relationships with those closest to her at the time of her suicide ..

it's funny that we think along similar lines. must be telepathy. yeah her final decision may be the result of manic phase of bipolar or schizophrenia.

http://youtu.be/PVHNGZ0Omx0

syfy paranormal witness had a sister of a guy who had a haunted house, and her sister heard voices of ghosts. then she became homeless and lost.

This has to be one of the top five stupidest comments I've ever read on this forum, and I'm not sorry for being frank about it. Appearance has no correlation to poverty. A boyfriend to help her out with what? Mental illness? Homelessness? Hunger? Poverty? Ain't no damn boyfriend gonna help anyone out with that.

Your bizarre attraction to this unfortunate woman freaks me out.


Thanks for saying what I was thinking.

I'd also like to add, why on earth would you imply that some man would take care of her. A) It was 1987 not 1787, women were totally capable of owning property and getting jobs and stuff by then B) She may very well have not been interested in men C) I know at least one person who I grew up with who was pretty, educated, parents cared and she disappeared anyway and wasn't reported missing. It happens for various reasons. (The person I knew eventually returned several years later.)

And the fascination spooks me as well.

Also, I'm not sure she was trying to make a sand angel. In fact, I doubt she was. The wording I saw stated that the coroner said she survived the plunge because she had made wings with her arms. To me, this just means that she was moving her arms while she lay dying.

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-04-26/news/mn-50674_1_orange-county/2

Are the two most frequent posters in this topic the same person?

Also, I'm not sure she was trying to make a sand angel. In fact, I doubt she was. The wording I saw stated that the coroner said she survived the plunge because she had made wings with her arms. To me, this just means that she was moving her arms while she lay dying.

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-04-26/news/mn-50674_1_orange-county/2
Said Ellingburgh, who handled the case, "She was still alive for some time at the bottom of the cliff, because she had made angel wings with her arms in the sand, you know, like children do in the snow."

http://www.nativitycedarcroft.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/snow2520angel.jpg


But there were no angels at the base of the Dana Point Harbor cliff that morning, and none would appear later.

Are the two most frequent posters in this topic the same person?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Are the two most frequent posters in this topic the same person?

No ! :nonono:

No ! :nonono:

haha i think it's funny someone said that.

have you seen this story by ShortAxel?

All she could think of was winter as a child, making angels in the snow.

With her last bit of strength she swept her arms in and out as a tear slid down her cheek. She was free now, like an angel. . .

full story here
http://shortaxel.deviantart.com/art/jane-doe-395527584

No , I have never read that piece by ShortAxel before today..... I dont know what to make about the 2 comments below it ....

Its unfortunate that she must have lay there at the bottom of the cliff and died before someone found her , thats quite sad. This case gets to me everytime I am at the beach ....

No , I have never read that piece by ShortAxel before today..... I dont know what to make about the 2 comments below it ....

Its unfortunate that she must have lay there at the bottom of the cliff and died before someone found her , thats quite sad. This case gets to me everytime I am at the beach ....

the author was thinking what i was thinking basically. and no im not shortaxl.


A citizen walking on the beach at 6:40 a.m. found a body at the bottom of a cliff below Bluff Road and Site Drive. It appeared that the victim jumped from the cliff onto the beach below.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/23ufca.html

her body was found 6:40 am
she knew if she waited till dawn, and jumped, she would be found and received assistance, cpr, and rushed to the hospital asap.


he police spoke with a taxi driver for American Taxi who said he picked up a fare from the Unocal Station at Oso and I-5 at 04:15 a.m. The customer he described fit the description of the deceased. She had asked him to take her to the Ritz-Carlton or as far as $18.00 would get her. She said her car had broken down and she appeared upset. He dropped her off in front of the Chart House near Cove Rd and Scenic Drive (DP). She was last seen walking towards the cliff area after exiting the taxi.

Based on postmortem changes, her estimated time of death was 9/20/1987 at around 5:00 a.m.


she was likely dropped around around 4:30-4:45am

i think it's unfortunate she died without revealing her identity or leaving a suicide note at such a young age.

but to die next to this sounds pretty romantic i think

http://youtu.be/ETrt_Vflti0

Is this the girl who took a cab to the cliff? I was never convinced that was a suicide.

I'm giving the side eye to this whole thread.

Is this the girl who took a cab to the cliff? I was never convinced that was a suicide.

well it was

Thanks for saying what I was thinking.

I'd also like to add, why on earth would you imply that some man would take care of her. A) It was 1987 not 1787, women were totally capable of owning property and getting jobs and stuff by then B) She may very well have not been interested in men C) I know at least one person who I grew up with who was pretty, educated, parents cared and she disappeared anyway and wasn't reported missing. It happens for various reasons. (The person I knew eventually returned several years later.)

And the fascination spooks me as well.

i'm just surprised a good looking 18-23 yo white girl apparently lives in poverty (as evidence by her clothes and dental carries) and suicide.
i'm sure there are resources for 18 year old girls.

i'm sure there are resources for 18 year old girls.

like what ? :blush:

like what ? :blush:

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

ever heard of Anne of Green Gables?

this was popular when
http://youtu.be/czJi_FpLBYY

UM featured this JD

JD reminds me of of Anne

btw

Eloise Worledge
Eloise Worledge born 8 October 1967 would be 19 on

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd497/ensabah6/vlcsnap-2013-04-20-20h19m43s131.png (http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/ensabah6/media/vlcsnap-2013-04-20-20h19m43s131.png.html)

20 September 1987

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/94/Dana_Point_Jane_Doe2.jpg

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:



:lol: :lol: :lol: Hmm ........ :) :blush: Is this a case of you reading my mind on something? :lol:


ever heard of Anne of Green Gables?

this was popular when
http://youtu.be/czJi_FpLBYY

UM featured this JD

JD reminds me of of Anne

btw

Eloise Worledge
Eloise Worledge born 8 October 1967 would be 19 on

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd497/ensabah6/vlcsnap-2013-04-20-20h19m43s131.png (http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/ensabah6/media/vlcsnap-2013-04-20-20h19m43s131.png.html)

20 September 1987

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/94/Dana_Point_Jane_Doe2.jpg



No I had never heard of Anne of Green Gables , the trailer was quite interesting in a few areas ....

Yes, Eloise was born around the perfect time to be the same or similar age to DPJD around 1987 - good observation on that ! :)

I couldnt find any info at hand about whether Eloise had any birthmarks , this is key because DPJD was described as having distinguishable birth marks but there were no exact details described in reports I have seen , do you know anything in this regard?

I very much doubt Eloise lived for long after being abducted because in most cases of stranger abduction I have read regarding young girls , the vast majority tend to be raped and murdered within hours which is why authorities have to react fast to such kidnaps ....

:talk: The strange thing that occurred to me about you bringing up Eloise in regard to DPJD is that DPJD would have been around Eloise`s age when the purse she left behind on the top of the cliff was stolen from its owner ...

:lol: :lol: :lol: Hmm ........ :) :blush: Is this a case of you reading my mind on something? :lol:



No I had never heard of Anne of Green Gables , the trailer was quite interesting in a few areas ....

Yes, Eloise was born around the perfect time to be the same or similar age to DPJD around 1987 - good observation on that ! :)

I couldnt find any info at hand about whether Eloise had any birthmarks , this is key because DPJD was described as having distinguishable birth marks but there were no exact details described in reports I have seen , do you know anything in this regard?

I very much doubt Eloise lived for long after being abducted because in most cases of stranger abduction I have read regarding young girls , the vast majority tend to be raped and murdered within hours which is why authorities have to react fast to such kidnaps ....

:talk: The strange thing that occurred to me about you bringing up Eloise in regard to DPJD is that DPJD would have been around Eloise`s age when the purse she left behind on the top of the cliff was stolen from its owner ...

My sources state DPJD did NOT have birth marks or tattoos. DO u have a link?

what do you think of Anne of Green Gables?

I've been doing research and I've found there is a lot of homeless children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_children

United States

The number of homeless children in the US grew from 1.2 million in 2007 to 1.6 million in 2010. The United States defines homelessness per McKinney–Vento Homeless Assistance Act.[59] The number of homeless children reached record highs in 2011,[60] 2012,[14] and 2013[61] at about three times their number in 1983.[14] An “estimated two million [youth] run away from or are forced out of their homes each year” in the United States.[9] The difference in these numbers can be attributed to the temporary nature of street children in the United States, unlike the more permanent state in developing countries.

Street children in the United States tend to stay in the state, 83% do not leave their state of origin.[9] If they leave, street children are likely to end up in large cities, notably New York City, Los Angeles, Portland, Oregon, and San Francisco.[9] Street children are predominantly Caucasian and female in the United States, and 42% identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender (LGBT).[9]

The United States government has been making efforts since the late 1970s to accommodate this section of the population. The Runaway and Homeless Youth Act of 1978 made funding available for shelters and funded the National Runaway Switchboard. Other efforts include the Child Abuse and Treatment Act of 1974, the National Child Abuse and Neglect Data System, and the Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Detention Act.[9] There has also been a decline of arrest rates in street youth, dropping in 30,000 arrests from 1998 to 2007. Instead, the authorities are referring homeless youth to state-run social service agencies.[9]
^

I had no idea that most street children are white and female. i thought they were black or latino. I had no idea it was 1.2-1.6 million. I've not seen these homeless white female children. I had no idea they identify 42% LGBT.

DPJD did wear men's underwear but she was pregnant or had a D&C.

You are correct DPJD had no birth marks , an error on my part :eek:

I found that piece on homeless children interesting , considering that blacks and latino`s make up less than 40% of the population it doesnt surprise me much that Caucasian females dominate that category ....

If DPJD had tattoos it could have possibly greatly aided identification , although tattoos are a very divisive subject they have lead to identifications in some interesting cases ........and yes the wearing of mens underwear has intrigued me too , could it be significant ?

One tidbit I also found fascinating about your article is that most homeless children tend to stay within the state , this got me thinking about DPJD and given that she had a map of the LA freeway and Orange county I wonder if she came from counties north of LA like SLO county or maybe the small towns which were dying in the 80`s in Riverside or San Bernadino county .....

You are correct DPJD had no birth marks , an error on my part :eek:

I found that piece on homeless children interesting , considering that blacks and latino`s make up less than 40% of the population it doesnt surprise me much that Caucasian females dominate that category ....

If DPJD had tattoos it could have possibly greatly aided identification , although tattoos are a very divisive subject they have lead to identifications in some interesting cases ........and yes the wearing of mens underwear has intrigued me too , could it be significant ?

One tidbit I also found fascinating about your article is that most homeless children tend to stay within the state , this got me thinking about DPJD and given that she had a map of the LA freeway and Orange county I wonder if she came from counties north of LA like SLO county or maybe the small towns which were dying in the 80`s in Riverside or San Bernadino county .....


this yt vid http://youtu.be/Z9kOfiBmFsM

if you read the comments on yt, no one believes she is actually homeless since she looks clean and clean clothing. they say she's an actor. also if she was homeless how did she learn to write?

i've just not seen these homeless 16 yo white girls, and ive seen plenty of homeless mostly men, with lots of blacks, much older with beards.

tattoos a divisive topic? i actually don't have any. looks gangsta to me.
i dont recall tattoos being common in 87.

yeah hard to say she why she was wearing mens underwear, since her clothing was described as second-hand.

yeah i think DPJD probably grew up in Cal. Maybe from a hippie commune?

on facebook someone said she thinks DPJD is Holly Lynn, sister is Tammy Lynn.

this yt vid http://youtu.be/Z9kOfiBmFsM

if you read the comments on yt, no one believes she is actually homeless since she looks clean and clean clothing. they say she's an actor. also if she was homeless how did she learn to write?

i've just not seen these homeless 16 yo white girls, and ive seen plenty of homeless mostly men, with lots of blacks, much older with beards.

tattoos a divisive topic? i actually don't have any. looks gangsta to me.
i dont recall tattoos being common in 87.

yeah hard to say she why she was wearing mens underwear, since her clothing was described as second-hand.

yeah i think DPJD probably grew up in Cal. Maybe from a hippie commune?

on facebook someone said she thinks DPJD is Holly Lynn, sister is Tammy Lynn.

That video is heartbreaking especially at the beginning with that 7 yr old , I am surprised by the comments but then again comments people write on Youtube are sometime quite nasty puke:

How can people say too clean to be homeless , really :rolleyes: ....it goes without saying that not all homeless look dishevelled and make themselves visible , some homeless people are quite enterprising......

Anyway back to DPJD, regarding her possibly having lived in a commune I would say :yeahthat
I mean come to think of it ,her clothing is a very interesting area to analyze because here is a young woman at an interesting age in most young womens lives who was wearing second hand clothing inc male underwear , it definitely suggests she wasnt to concerned with, dare I say, style and image of the time so a possible commune connection make sense , good suggestion :)

The fact that she came into the possession of a stolen purse makes me wonder where or how she got it......

That video is heartbreaking especially at the beginning with that 7 yr old , I am surprised by the comments but then again comments people write on Youtube are sometime quite nasty puke:

How can people say too clean to be homeless , really :rolleyes: ....it goes without saying that not all homeless look dishevelled and make themselves visible , some homeless people are quite enterprising......

Anyway back to DPJD, regarding her possibly having lived in a commune I would say :yeahthat
I mean come to think of it ,her clothing is a very interesting area to analyze because here is a young woman at an interesting age in most young womens lives who was wearing second hand clothing inc male underwear , it definitely suggests she wasnt to concerned with, dare I say, style and image of the time so a possible commune connection make sense , good suggestion :)

The fact that she came into the possession of a stolen purse makes me wonder where or how she got it......

honestly i'm not sure if that 7 year old really is homeless or if this is staged and she's just an actor. if her parents did die why didn't she go to relatives? there are govt agencies that send social workers for children, esp her age. also, with pedophiles prowling, how has she not been snatched and how does she get food? the uploader hasn't replied to clarify. why didnt the person making the video simply grabbed her and dropped her off a police station or orphanage.

well with DPJD we don't know if she had the financial means to afford good clothing. if she had affluent parents they may have purchased better clothing but maybe they died and she is an orphan. maybe what she wore and the purse was what a charity organization offered. there was a carol l pinkham who said her purse was stolen, but we don't know if DPJD purse was that purse.

among the reasons i said some kind of hippie commune is that so far as we know, no one reported her missing, which seems atypical of middle class parents, and she didn't leave a written message for anyone and died alone. i mean if she's going to commit suicide, why not close to where her parents live so they can bury her?

i wonder if she suffered from mental illness like bipolar or hearing voices, delusional beliefs and was therefore estranged from her parents.

DPJD does make me wonder how many girls her age are like this in the US. I am well aware there is immense child poverty in india phillipines mexico etc.

honestly i'm not sure if that 7 year old really is homeless or if this is staged and she's just an actor. if her parents did die why didn't she go to relatives? there are govt agencies that send social workers for children, esp her age. also, with pedophiles prowling, how has she not been snatched and how does she get food? the uploader hasn't replied to clarify. why didnt the person making the video simply grabbed her and

Interesting points there , I do understand your sentiment but I`m not sure about grabbing her and taking her away, that might not look good :lol: ......man grabbing 7 yr old and taking her into a car :eek:



i wonder if she suffered from mental illness like bipolar or hearing voices, delusional beliefs and was therefore estranged from her parents.


I have wondered about that too,its a distinct possibility



among the reasons i said some kind of hippie commune is that so far as we know, no one reported her missing, which seems atypical of middle class parents, and she didn't leave a written message for anyone and died alone. i mean if she's going to commit suicide, why not close to where her parents live so they can bury her?


Precisely ! :) Good reasoning .....

the fact that she wanted to commit suicide far away from home suggests unhappiness in the place she had previously resided in and a wish to distance herself from it even in death. One other question that creeps up to me is concerning the soda can found at the cliff top........it was half drank , so before leaping off she must have opened it and drank some , I wonder what was she thinking at that point :quest: :thought:

Interesting points there , I do understand your sentiment but I`m not sure about grabbing her and taking her away, that might not look good :lol: ......man grabbing 7 yr old and taking her into a car :eek:



I have wondered about that too,its a distinct possibility



Precisely ! :) Good reasoning .....

the fact that she wanted to commit suicide far away from home suggests unhappiness in the place she had previously resided in and a wish to distance herself from it even in death. One other question that creeps up to me is concerning the soda can found at the cliff top........it was half drank , so before leaping off she must have opened it and drank some , I wonder what was she thinking at that point :quest: :thought:

I think that video is fake since her clothes are clean and she has a good hair cut. Child protective services or a pedo would get her. I've never seen a homeless white kid her age in the US.

DPJD

it's also possible she had some kind of spiritual or mystical sort of belief that nothing could be more beautiful than to die by the beach.

yeah why not finish the coke. maybe she drank the coke during the taxi ride, so that as soon as she was dropped off she wasted no time to commit suicide. the taxi said after dropping her off she was walking in that direction. the report do say that at Unocol she did use the restroom.

I wonder what DPJD did during her menstruation period.

. there was a carol l pinkham who said her purse was stolen, but we don't know if DPJD purse was that purse.

.

An article I once read online said that Carol Pinkham did indeed confirm that the purse belonged to her and was stolen in a bar in the 70`s , my memory is a bit hazy on this detail but it was some city like San Diego , unfortunately I couldnt find that exact article .....

DPJD

it's also possible she had some kind of spiritual or mystical sort of belief that nothing could be more beautiful than to die by the beach.

.

Its funny you mention that because she initially wanted to be taken to Laguna beach, which has quite a beautiful coastline and nice cliffs .....



I wonder what DPJD did during her menstruation period.

Why do you wonder about that ? :confused: :blush:

An article I once read online said that Carol Pinkham did indeed confirm that the purse belonged to her and was stolen in a bar in the 70`s , my memory is a bit hazy on this detail but it was some city like San Diego , unfortunately I couldnt find that exact article .....

that's true, but maybe it was a different purse. or she misremembered. if it was stolen maybe the thief dropped it off at a donation center after taking the cash.

Its funny you mention that because she initially wanted to be taken to Laguna beach, which has quite a beautiful coastline and nice cliffs .....



Why do you wonder about that ? :confused: :blush:

one detail that's not clear is did she want to go to Laguna beach originally ?

wikipedia says Laguna beach

The man who claimed to have driven the unidentified woman stated that she told him that her car had broken down (although no abandoned vehicles were located in the area) and she requested to be transported for as far as eighteen dollars would bring her, as she could not afford to be taken to Laguna Beach, California.[2] He described her to have appeared unhappy and did not speak often. Before this, the woman was seen at the cab company and had used the bathroom.[3] After dropping her off, the driver saw the decedent walking toward the cliff, which was the last time she was reported to have been seen alive.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Point_Jane_Doe

In the early morning hours of September 20, 1987, on a beach, in Dana Point, California, just under a a cliff located below Bluff Road and Site Drive, joggers discovered the lifeless body of a young woman.

The woman had fallen to her death from the top of the cliff.

Investigators called at the scene found items near the fence that they believe belonged to the victim: a pack of cigarettes, a soda can, a paper with phone numbers inscribed on it, a purse, and a California road map.

The phone numbers were soon traced to a nearby Hampton Inn hotel located in Mission Viejo. There, a hotel clerk told investigators that the victim had entered the hotel and asked if there were any tall buildings in the area. She then phoned for a taxi at about 4 am and told the taxi driver to take her to the Ritz-Carlton hotel of Dana Point who isn’t however much elevated.

Realizing that she didn’t have enough money to pay for the ride to the hotel, she made the cabby stop at about half the way to the hotel at the intersection of Cove Grove and Scenic Driver and handed him 18$.

She then apparently walked to the nearest cliff, climbed the fence lining it and jumped.

http://meyahna.tripod.com/pg15.html

it would appear that the Taxi cab statement is she wanted to be taken to Laguna beach but then go as far as $18 allowed, and this was the most recent.

but DPJD had previously asked the hotel clerk Hampton Inn hotel located in Mission Viejo at an earlier time, perhaps days earlier, that she wanted a taxi to Ritz-Carlton hotel of Dana Point.

which is a bit confusing. it's hard to make sense of her intentions. could she commit suicide had she reached Ritz Carlton hotel at Dana Point? Could she commit suicide had she had enough money to reach Laguna Beach?

Prior to her suicide what was her life like? When DPJD did menstruate did she pay for tampons? if so where did she get the money? or did she stop menstruating due to pregnancy? abortion? or did she not menstruate due to some reason?

I agree DPJD`s intentions and the information she gave people can be a flummoxing at times, considering she also asked about tall buildings I definitely think suicide was definitely on her mind if she reached Laguna Beach....

What sort of hotel was the Dana Point Ritz Carlton ?

Aaah I get your interest in her menstruation because that does link in the fact that the coroner said she may have had child birth or a D&C procedure before , a D&C procedure for example could be done to cure abnormal bleeding from the uterus or even something like uterine cancer so its a 50/50 regarding her womb , fertility, her being a mom etc

Given that she was smoker I would think she definitely could afford tampons , they werent that expensive in the 80`s.... were they ?

I agree DPJD`s intentions and the information she gave people can be a flummoxing at times, considering she also asked about tall buildings I definitely think suicide was definitely on her mind if she reached Laguna Beach....

What sort of hotel was the Dana Point Ritz Carlton ?

Aaah I get your interest in her menstruation because that does link in the fact that the coroner said she may have had child birth or a D&C procedure before , a D&C procedure for example could be done to cure abnormal bleeding from the uterus or even something like uterine cancer so its a 50/50 regarding her womb , fertility, her being a mom etc

Given that she was smoker I would think she definitely could afford tampons , they werent that expensive in the 80`s.... were they ?

yeah i do see this as clues

if she did have the money to reach laguna beach, how would she have committed suicide

here's a pic from wikipedia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/North_LagunaBeachCA_photo_D_Ramey_Logan.JPG

i dont know what kind of hotel that is.

yeah she was a smoker so how did she get her cigarettes? did she pay for them? how long was she smoking?
i agree if she paid for her cigarettes then she probably paid for tampons - unless her partner provided them or parents - which means how did she get the money to pay for them? did she have a job? was she living off welfare? boyfriend ?

yeah doctors do ask females about their mentruation history, and of course there's the issue of dc abortion birth. i wonder if the men's underwear shows signs of menstrual stains, which suggests she had at least one cycle of the same underwear. what were her stomach contents? what was her last meal and where did she have that meal?


did she have tan lines?

they can now do forensic tools like doing an isotope analysis of her teeth and bones to determine where she likely grew up. they could also examine pollen on her clothing to see where she was traveling.

there are a couple of other jane does like caledonia jane doe where they did this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonia_Jane_Doe

OK. This thread has gone from odd to disrespectful in my opinion. Can we please afford this woman a modicum of dignity in death? Discussing the cleanliness of certain clothing items and how she dealt with normal bodily functions will do nothing to help identify her.

Neognosis, I suggest you visit this link and read up. It should answer any questions about menstruation your health teacher or parents failed to cover. http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-info/womens-health/menstruation

Respectfully,
necco

OK. This thread has gone from odd to disrespectful in my opinion. Can we please afford this woman a modicum of dignity in death? Discussing the cleanliness of certain clothing items and how she dealt with normal bodily functions will do nothing to help identify her.

Neognosis, I suggest you visit this link and read up. It should answer any questions about menstruation your health teacher or parents failed to cover. http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-info/womens-health/menstruation

Respectfully,
necco

:thanx:

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Also, I'm baffled as to the belief that because someone was clean, they couldn't be homeless. I work with lots of people who are struggling with maintaining stable housing. The MAJORITY of them present to me as clean and appropriately dressed. (I say "appropriately" because while they aren't wearing designer clothing, they are wearing clothes that are clean and fit them.)

Also, I'm baffled as to the belief that because someone was clean, they couldn't be homeless. I work with lots of people who are struggling with maintaining stable housing. The MAJORITY of them present to me as clean and appropriately dressed. (I say "appropriately" because while they aren't wearing designer clothing, they are wearing clothes that are clean and fit them.)

+1. I've encountered many clean, appropriately dressed people who were living in shelters and literally underneath overpasses as well.

And while we're at it, there are plenty of homeless people in the world that have "learned how to write". :rolleyes:

This thread is ridiculous.

warning *post mortem pic*

as an aside, there was another famous jane doe, caledonia jane doe
info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonia_Jane_Doe
slain nov 1979

The Caledonia Jane Doe or "Cali Doe" is the name given to an unidentified young female homicide victim found in the town of Caledonia, Livingston County, New York, on November 9, 1979.[2][3][4] Investigators believe that she may have come to the Caledonia area from southern California, or perhaps Arizona or northern Mexico. Because her true identity has yet to be discovered, the generic name Jane Doe has been incorporated into her name, which has been done with countless other cases.[5][6][7]

Caledonia Jane Doe's case is conspicuous among American unidentified persons cases for its unusually geographically broad sourcing of physical evidence, the pronounced youth of its victim, and the length of time for which it has remained unsolved though being repeatedly and widely publicized by investigating law enforcement agencies. Consequently, the case continually attracts a high level of notice from the public; in the decades since Caledonia Jane Doe's death was first advertised, the Livingston County Sheriff's Office has investigated more than ten thousand tips and leads from around North America, none of which to date has yielded the identity of the victim or her assailant.[5]

The case is also noteworthy for being one of very few cases set in an American jurisdiction to make use of the growing science of forensic palynology.[8]

eath and discovery
Caledonia Jane Doe is located in New York
Body site
Body site
Location where Caledonia Jane Doe's remains were found in the state of New York, about 75 miles' (120 kilometers') drive from New York–Ontario border
Sketch of the victim from the side

On the morning of November 9, 1979, a farmer in Caledonia saw red clothing in one of his corn fields and went to investigate, believing that he had spotted a trespassing hunter. In the field he found the body of a young girl.[5][9] Police arrived on scene at 10:04 am.[10]

The girl, later named "Caledonia Jane Doe" or "Cali Doe" by investigators, was fully clothed. Her body showed no signs of sexual assault. She died from severe hemorrhage caused by two gunshot wounds, one to the head over the right eye and one to the back. Her pockets had been turned inside out, suggesting that if she carried any identification, her killer had removed it.[5][6]

Caledonia Jane Doe's autopsy indicated that she had first been shot in the head while next to the road bordering the corn field, at or near a blood spot found on the ground. Her body was then dragged into the corn field, where she was shot again in the back and left for dead on November 8, 1979. Heavy rains on the night of her death washed away much potential forensic evidence.[5][6][9]

Caledonia Jane Doe had been dumped about 20 feet (6 m) from the south side of U.S. Route 20 and 0.5 miles (0.8 km) from the intersection of U.S. Route 20 with New York State Route 5. The location of the site is approximately 42.917363°N 77.776299°W, less than half a mile from the town of Caledonia's border with the town of Avon, about 23 miles (37 km) southwest of Rochester, New York and about 10 miles (16 km) south of the New York State Thruway (Interstate 90 section).[6][11]
Characteristics
External images Recent reconstruction of Cali Doe
Second reconstruction, age regression
Mortuary photograph

Caledonia Jane Doe is believed to have been between the ages of 13 and 19 (born sometime between 1958 and 1967). The height and weight of the victim were estimated to be 5 feet 3 inches (1.60 m) and 120 pounds (54 kg), respectively.[11][12] She had brown eyes and wavy, light brown shoulder-length hair that had been frosted in the front (with blonde highlights) about four months prior to her death and was growing out. Her toenails were painted with coral-colored nail polish.[3]

She had visible tan lines from a halter top or bikini, suggesting that she may have come from a region with abundant October–November sunshine, as sun tanning beds were uncommon in the 1970s.[6][9] There were freckles on the backs of her shoulders and acne on her face and chest.[3]

Caledonia Jane Doe's teeth were in natural condition, with no restorations or fillings. She appeared never to have received care from a dentist. Some of her permanent first and second molars suffered from severe dental caries (cavities and decay). Consistent with Caledonia Jane Doe's young appearance, none of her permanent third molars (wisdom teeth) had erupted.[3] Her blood type was A-.[3]

A few hours before her death, Caledonia Jane Doe had eaten sweet corn; potatoes; and boiled, canned ham, possibly from a diner in Lima, New York, where she had been seen by a waitress, with a man.[6][13]
Clothing and jewelry
Reconstruction of the Jane Doe with her jacket and necklace incorporated
External images Clothing worn by Cali Doe
Jacket
Heart and key keychains
Turquoise necklace

The unidentified girl was wearing a red nylon-lined man's windbreaker jacket with black stripes down the arms, marked inside with the label "Auto Sports Products, Inc.", a boy's multicolored plaid button-up shirt with collar, tan corduroy pants (size 7), blue knee socks, white bra (size 32C),[3] and blue panties.[11] She wore brown rippled-sole shoes said to be popular in the "Venjiont"[note 1] area in the late 1970s.[6] The red Auto Sports Products jacket was produced as a one-time promotional item and could not be traced after distribution.[6]

She also wore a silver necklace with three small turquoise stones. The necklace had a homemade appearance and resembled replica Native American jewelry made in the southwestern United States.[9][10] Attached to the girl's pants' front belt loops were two metal keychains, one shaped like a heart with a key-shaped cutout and inscribed with the words "He who holds the Key can open my heart", the other shaped like a key meant to fit the cutout in the heart.[9][11]
Pollen evidence

In 2006, Paul Chambers, a recently-hired investigator in the Monroe County, New York medical examiner's office, asked for and received permission to send Caledonia Jane Doe's clothing to the Palynology Laboratory at Texas A&M University, where it was checked for plant pollen trace evidence.[5] Among the types of pollen found on the clothing by the Texas A&M University researchers were grains from Casuarina (Australian pine, or "she oak"), Quercus (oak), Picea (spruce), and Betula (birch). The clothing pollen grains were compared to a control sample of pollen grains taken directly from the rural New York site where Caledonia Jane Doe's body had been found in 1979.[5][7]

Oak grows widely all over the United States, and spruce and birch grow in New York, among many places in the United States. However, no oak, spruce, or birch pollen grains were found in the control sample, and neither spruce nor birch trees were found growing near the body dump site.[7] Caledonia Jane Doe's spruce and birch pollen came from species common in mountainous areas of California.[14]

Australian pine, or Casuarina, is an invasive genus of tree that grows in a limited number of locations in North America: south Florida; south Texas; parts of Mexico; the campuses of the University of Arizona and Arizona State University; and three regions in California: the North Bay of San Francisco, the San Luis Obispo area, and the San Diego area.[7] Casuarina cannot survive the autumn and winter seasons in the temperate climate of the New York region where Caledonia Jane Doe was found.[14][15] She or her clothing would not have acquired the Casuarina pollen grains at the dump site.

Overall, researchers believe the southern California and San Diego region to be the best geographical pollen print match location for the grains from Caledonia Jane Doe's clothing.[7] Based on the pollen evidence and the girl's visible tan lines, forensic researchers suggested that Caledonia Jane Doe may have originally lived in the southwestern United States near San Diego, California, then traveled (perhaps by hitchhiking) through the Sierra Nevada mountains where spruce and birch grow, passing through Reno, Nevada, and then traveled across the country to New York, where she was murdered.[5][7][16]
Other details
Police sketch of a person of interest who may have been involved in her murder

Police believe the murder weapon to have been a .38-caliber handgun. Investigators located a spent slug in the dirt underneath the unidentified girl's body, which they compared forensically to hundreds of other bullets fired from confiscated weapons. Despite the efforts of investigators to trace weapons from the United States, Canada, Europe, and Mexico, the slug has not been matched to a specific gun.[5]

As Caledonia, New York, sits a driving distance of approximately 75 miles (120 km) from the United States–Canada border via the New York State Thruway and Interstate 90, the possibility remains that Caledonia Jane Doe may have been Canadian rather than American or Mexican.[6] Interstate 90 also runs from coast to coast within the United States, beginning in Seattle, Washington and ending in Boston, Massachusetts.

Because she could eventually be identified by a match between her living relatives' DNA and her own, Caledonia Jane Doe's body was exhumed in September 2005 for purposes of DNA extraction.[17] The University of North Texas Center for Human Identification was able to produce nuclear STR (nucDNA) and mitochondrial (mtDNA) profiles of her DNA via forensic DNA profiling. Her DNA profiles are stored in the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS), a database that allows United States public crime laboratories to compare and exchange DNA profiles in order to identify criminal suspects and crime victims.[3]

When she was exhumed, several of her teeth were sent for mineralogical and forensic isotope analysis, to connect the composition of her teeth with the composition and mineral content of regional drinking water supplies around North America, allowing investigators to determine where she may have been raised.[17][18] Early results on the dental 18O/16O isotopic oxygen ratio indicated that she may have spent her early years in the south/southwest region of the United States.[17]

In 1984, Henry Lee Lucas confessed to the murder of the unidentified girl. Investigators found no sufficient evidence to support the confession.[6]

The case has received national attention, appearing on such television shows as America's Most Wanted.[9] As of 2014, Cali Doe remains unidentified.[3][16]


websleuthers try to find her identity since 2005

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?23127-NY-Caledonia-WhtFem-1UFNY-13-19-Turquoise-Necklace-Nov-79-*GRAPHIC*

in july 2014 a friend decided to try to find a old friend she has not seen since high school since 1979.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/never-forget-me/tammy-jo-alexander/951066874907350

Tammy Jo Alexander
October 1, 2014 at 1:03pm

This is a story that we do not see having any happy endings. While this may solve a case that has tugged at people's heartstrings for many years, it may also mean someone has to inform a family that their loved one is gone.


Her name is Tammy Jo Alexander. She was born on Nov.2,1963. She had a difficult and often turbulent home life. She was raised in Brooksville Florida and attended school there. At some point in 1979 Tammy vanished. To some, she was just another child who was there and then was gone. Luckily, not to all. Her best friend Laurel was always bothered by Tammy vanishing. She was also bothered by the lack of concern it seemed to raise. Recently, Laurel decided to do something about it, so she took the bull by the horns and reported her friend as missing.


Finding Tammy listed as a new case on NAMUS has certainly created a flurry of activity among our group. Have we finally solved a case that has pulled at our heartstrings for so many years? Has she already been found, and waiting to go home? Waiting for someone to give her back her name? We may have that answer very soon thanks to the NAMUS national missing persons database. Tammy's family has given DNA, and it is currently at UNT. NAMUS processes all the DNA samples they receive through UNT. Once it has been processed and a profile completed, then we will finally know if Tammy is the girl we have worked so many years trying to identify.


Solving a case often comes with very mixed emotions. On one side we would be so very happy to finally see a child have her name back, to finally have something besides Jane Doe on her headstone. On the other side, our hearts would break for the loved ones who would just be finding out that she died at the hands of a killer.


Now, you probably wonder which case we think we may have solved, but we never tip our hands, so we can't release that information until we have confirmation.


Tammy Jo Alexander- vanished from Brooksville Florida in 1979. Tammy was between 15 and 16 years of age when she vanished. She is described as between 5 ft and 5'6" tall, and weighed between 110 and 120 lbs. Tammy had very light brown hair, which was bleached blonde at the time she vanished. Please, if you know where Tammy is, or what happened to her, help us bring her home to her family.






Tammy's parents are deceased. She has a half-sister. Tammy's friend in July 2014 decided to report her missing.


http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Missing%20Persons%20Photos/5707f71d-7803-40da-ae8c-708df94c2ae5.jpg


https://identifyus.org/medias/full/6715

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Side-By-Side%20Comparisons/2946931480045078242S425x425Q851_zps8254c8e7.jpg


DNA testing are underway. A woman who wondered what happened to her friend from high school in 1979 in 2014 reported her missing, then volunteers working on Caledonia Jane Doe saw her page updated on missing persons and made the link. DNA testing results will be announced soon.

Caledonia Jane Doe is probably Tammy Jo Alexander

http://www.zabasearch.com/messages/zaba_messages_research.php?mquery=Tammy+Alexander

To: TAMMY ALEXANDER
Is this the Tammy from the 6th grade in Hazels class at Fayherron Elementry just thinging about back than and wanted to say hello to an old friend how is your mom & Gretta say hello for me drop me a note somti time love to hear from you Love Carolyn - See more at: http://www.zabasearch.com/messages/zaba_messages_research.php?mquery=Tammy+Alexander#sthash.5IdgDpTL.dpuf



Message Sent Wednesday, March 19 1:25 (Pacific Time)
From: Gainesville , FL , US
Area Code: 352

Open this message I'm trying to find a woman named Tammy Jo Alexander. She would be 44 now and use to live in Brooksville, Florida. Her mother is Barbara Jenkins and her father is Bobby Alexander. I believe she was born in Atlanta on 11/2/63. She became missing in 1978-79 and may have fallen into prostitution in St. Petersburg. If anyone has any information they can reach me at proshop At peoplepc.com or call me at 352-688-9585 between 1pm and 8pm Eastern time. Thanks, Kevin - See more at: http://www.zabasearch.com/messages/zaba_messages_research.php?mquery=Tammy+Alexander#sthash.5IdgDpTL.dpuf

While I won't press the menstrual issue, FYI grooming and personal hygene, health, dental, is standard to inquire re: Jane Doe's

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?23127-NY-Caledonia-WhtFem-1UFNY-13-19-Turquoise-Necklace-Nov-79-*GRAPHIC*/page48

6. AGE RELATED - What was taken into consideration to get her age range? We know wisdom teeth; were growth plates used too? What was the age change from 20 to mid teen based on?

A - There was an original autopsy done at that time by a local doctor who was our County Coroner. There was a follow up exam done as well by someone from the Monroe County Medical Examiners Office. The original doctor thought 19-21 yrs. old. The second examiner estimated her to be 16-18 years of age and described her as "mid to late adolescence". I do not believe growth plates were used in any of these estimates. X Rays done at that time showed what the doctor described as a "lack of bone development for someone over 18 years old". He then estimated her at 16 years of age, plus or minus 2 years.

Exactly. The lack of bone development tells us she was most likely under 18. Also her grooming did not indicate a street person. She had no excess hair on her legs, her toenails are not listed as being unkempt, nor is anything else about her. So if she was homeless I'd guess it was very recent to her death. There was nothing odd noted at the diner when she had dinner. The waitress had the impression the man with her was a brother, so that makes one think she was comfortable and at ease with him. Yet a short time later she was laying dead in a cornfield.



and her D&C abortion her breasts, whether she was lactating etc was discussed on a websleuth thread

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?75071-CA-Dana-Point-White-Female-23UFCA-18-23-Suicide-Cliff-Jump-Sep-87


04-30-2014, 11:21 AM #251
apearn
apearn is offline Registered User

Join Date
Jan 2010
Posts
242

I'm guessing but if they say pregnancy or d&c I think they would have been looking at her cervix. Normally the cervical opening is a rounded opening but after a baby ( and I assume dilation) it looks more like a minus sign.
If it had been very recent I would assume they would have been tipped off by hormones and normal post pregnancy discharge.


04-30-2014, 12:08 PM #252
lissame73
lissame73 is offline Registered User

Join Date
Apr 2014
Posts
12

i dont know about adoptions

I dont know if they handle adoptions, or assist in finding places that handle adoptions, but base solely on their name and the little bit i have read about them I gather that they have a wide array or areas where tehy assit women who didnt plan their parenthood. so.. Not sure on that and im basing my theory of her being pregnat soley on the facts that a former pregnancy and a d&C are noted, taht she was "well developed" and tht her clothes fit loosly.. also that i read on a website that wearing mens undies is good after certain proceedures becasue it is built to hold a large femanine napkin with ease


04-30-2014, 01:22 PM #254
apearn
apearn is offline Registered User

Join Date
Jan 2010
Posts
242

The hormone swings would certainly cause depression. My guess would be that if it was recent the ME would have picked up on it. I don't know exactly what they look for though.
I have a friend who had a stillborn and it's been about 10 years and it still haunts her.
I am curious why this girl was looking for the high end hotels though. Prostitute maybe?


04-28-2014, 10:06 PM #238
im1096's Avatar
im1096
im1096 is offline Where is Anthony Ray Lofston?

Join Date
Jun 2010
Location
Indiana
Posts
47

Thank you, Amber! I only remembered the pregnancy part.

A D & C is not only for abortions. I had three in '79-'80 to help correct problems with my cycle.


04-28-2014, 10:15 PM #239
Ambercat's Avatar
Ambercat
Ambercat is offline Registered User

Join Date
Feb 2011
Location
Long Beach, CA
Posts
1,239

Quote Originally Posted by im1096 View Post
Thank you, Amber! I only remembered the pregnancy part.

A D & C is not only for abortions. I had three in '79-'80 to help correct problems with my cycle.
I know; they are also done after miscarriages, too. I would guess (just IMO) that if the D&C isn't as recent as Lissame73 is suggesting (due to the coroner not being able to determine whether she had a prior pregnancy or D&C and they would probably say if they thought she had recently underwent a medical procedure/check with local doctors/etc?) but I guess I could be wrong about that.


04-29-2014, 10:49 AM #242
carbuff
carbuff is offline ebook Bad Fairies available from Torridbooks.com, Amazon, B&N

Join Date
Oct 2009
Location
New England
Posts
11,597

Interesting discussion.

The D&C was already getting rarer by the end of the 1970's. The Roe v Wade decision was issued in 1973 and hotel room abortions pretty much vanished after that. Vacuum aspiration quickly became the standard.

I can believe this woman might have had an abortion or miscarriage a few weeks prior to her suicide and that might have played into her mental state, but I doubt she came to this place for the abortion.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?75071-CA-Dana-Point-White-Female-23UFCA-18-23-Suicide-Cliff-Jump-Sep-87/page10

Yeah, I'd say websleuths discussions pretty much consistently demonstrate the gold standard in investigatory analysis expertise.

Out.

Yeah, I'd say websleuths discussions pretty much consistently demonstrate the gold standard in investigatory analysis expertise.

Out.

worth mentioning

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?23127-NY-Caledonia-WhtFem-1UFNY-13-19-Turquoise-Necklace-Nov-79-*GRAPHIC*/page49

1-17-2014, 03:07 AM #1217
Still_Seek_Answers's Avatar
Still_Seek_Answers
Still_Seek_Answers is offline Hope is our strength......love is our determination

Join Date
Jan 2012
Posts
789

Quote Originally Posted by annegrete View Post
I think Cali's case manager, Lori, should be contacted about Jamie Grissam. I contacted Lori two weeks ago with a couple of those names I presented to all of you. Lori emailed me back within two days to say NAMUS will look into those. I think Lori would get back to you rather quickly, too.

Unfortunately, I never received a reply email from Livingston Co Sheriff about a migrant/Traveller/Roadie/Tinkerer or ex-Amish link. I wrote to the email address provided on various websites- it was NOT specific to Sgt. York, so who knows if he ever got it.
We sent another email to the Detective on Cali's case. She has no callouses nor other physical markers to indicate she was a migrant worker. Her grooming habits indicate that she was not out on the road. Her legs and underarms were shaven, her toenails were not excessively long....none of the traits we generally see in people living on the road are present. I also see no indicators that she was Amish. Her teeth alone would make me think she is not. Amish people tend to stay with their own orders, but the children most generally have adequate dental care. I spent several years living in a Amish area, and I never saw anybody whose teeth were neglected.

The detective did tell me something I found to be very interesting. He stated:

We had NCMEC prepare a photo of Cali using the latest technology. It is strikingly different from the one we have been using over the last 30 plus years.

that poster asked a detective who worked on the caledonia jane doe and the detective replied that she shaved her legs and underarms so she probably wasn't homeless. there's no statement about DPJD's underarm and leg hair though it is clearly a clue.

that poster asked a detective who worked on the caledonia jane doe and the detective replied that she shaved her legs and underarms so she probably wasn't homeless. there's no statement about DPJD's underarm and leg hair though it is clearly a clue.


I can think of lots of people who DON'T shave their legs and underarms because of their individual belief system. They aren't homeless. Actually, a lot of them are what you'd call "trust fund babies."

Let's move on, please.

I can think of lots of people who DON'T shave their legs and underarms because of their individual belief system. They aren't homeless. Actually, a lot of them are what you'd call "trust fund babies."

Let's move on, please.

Ok, please share your theory, in your opinion, who is DPJD and what was her life like in the months leading up to her suicide? Why did she commit suicide at Dana Point and why has she remained undentified. Why did she draw a sand angel as the last thing she did prior to death?

Holy hell.

None of us know who this woman is.

None of us know what her life was like in the months prior to her death.

None of us know that she absolutely committed suicide.

That woman fell from a cliff and definitely sustained massive trauma to her nervous system. I highly doubt she was attempting to be freaking poetic while looking up at the stars, pondering life, and "making sand angels". I think it's far more likely she was trying like hell to keep breathing or sustain her level of consciousness (if the impact didn't kill her immediately, that is).

Stop romanticizing this person's death. She died violently, and there stands a good possibility she endured great amounts of pain and suffering before she died. There's nothing "mystical" about that.

Holy hell.

None of us know who this woman is.

None of us know what her life was like in the months prior to her death.

None of us know that she absolutely committed suicide.

That woman fell from a cliff and definitely sustained massive trauma to her nervous system. I highly doubt she was attempting to be freaking poetic while looking up at the stars, pondering life, and "making sand angels". I think it's far more likely she was trying like hell to keep breathing or sustain her level of consciousness (if the impact didn't kill her immediately, that is).

Stop romanticizing this person's death. She died violently, and there stands a good possibility she endured great amounts of pain and suffering before she died. There's nothing "mystical" about that.



the lead investigator Ellingburgh said

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-04-...range-county/2

Said Ellingburgh, who handled the case, "She was still alive for some time at the bottom of the cliff, because she had made angel wings with her arms in the sand, you know, like children do in the snow."

Read more: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=330576&page=3#ixzz3Ky8BtuaJ

making angel wings as the last thing you do before die strikes me as spiritual.

i did NOT write this but jane doe by ShortAxel captures my thoughts of this

She nervously played with her hands, a sick feeling in her stomach.

The cabbie was quiet, mimicking her silence. It was a struggle for her to breathe properly as her nerves were such a mess. She wasn't sure about this. What if things didn't go as she hoped?

The cab stopped. “This is as far as your money will get you.” She pulled the crumpled bills from her purse and extended a hand to the driver. He looked at her apologetically but she didn't mind. It wasn't the hotel but maybe. . .maybe this was better.

When she stepped outside the breeze rustled her dress and a soft smile spread across her lips. She stood on the edge of the road and watched the cab’s lights disappear from view. As the lights faded away she realized just how dark it was. She couldn't see anything, not even the moon, but she could hear the sea.

It crashed against the shore below, how far she couldn't guess. She slid out of her shoes to feel the sand beneath her feet, sighing happily at the sensation. She hadn't been at the beach in a long time. This wasn't how she pictured her next visit to the ocean, but it would do.

Ever so slowly she inched closer to the edge of the cliff, barely able to see it. She took a deep breath and closed her eyes. The night was so dark she’d never see anything, but it was comforting. Without a sound she leapt into the unknown.

The feeling of falling wasn't something she could put into words. It was thrilling and scary and somehow so very slow. She watched her body crash onto the ground as if she were floating above it. When she opened her eyes she was back inside her body, laying in the cold sand. All she could think of was winter as a child, making angels in the snow.

With her last bit of strength she swept her arms in and out as a tear slid down her cheek. She was free now, like an angel. . .



http://shortaxel.deviantart.com/art/jane-doe-395527584

the author took the words out of my mouth. that was what i was thinking when i first heard it.

I believe her last act as a spiritual person was to tell the world that despite her poverty she was going to tell this world there are angels.

Holy hell.

None of us know who this woman is.

None of us know what her life was like in the months prior to her death.

None of us know that she absolutely committed suicide.

That woman fell from a cliff and definitely sustained massive trauma to her nervous system. I highly doubt she was attempting to be freaking poetic while looking up at the stars, pondering life, and "making sand angels". I think it's far more likely she was trying like hell to keep breathing or sustain her level of consciousness (if the impact didn't kill her immediately, that is).

Stop romanticizing this person's death. She died violently, and there stands a good possibility she endured great amounts of pain and suffering before she died. There's nothing "mystical" about that.
Thank you. I was becoming agitated reading some of these comments. Stop glorifying the poor girls death. Just because she was "white and pretty" doesn't mean she was wealthy. She could of had a hard life. Anything could of happened to her. She could have been depressed for all we know. Leave the girl be, let her rest in peace. I can't stand the ignorance in this thread.

Ok, please share your theory, in your opinion, who is DPJD and what was her life like in the months leading up to her suicide? Why did she commit suicide at Dana Point and why has she remained undentified. Why did she draw a sand angel as the last thing she did prior to death?


She moved her arms. The coroner only said it that way to explain the scene and use a mental image everyone would understand to express that she survived the fall. Fatally injured people often move and struggle while dying.

She did not jump or fall, receive fatal injuries and then think… "Hey! I should make sand angels. That would be spiritual and stuff."

Seriously, your simultaneous glorification and objectification of this woman is creepy and inappropriate. If she was still alive, she could likely get a restraining order against you if she gave a judge a copy of this thread.


Ok. Back to Dana Doe.

As for the purse, the most likely explanation is that she bought it in a thrift shop. Transient young adults often frequent them. Transient young adults also learn the ropes quickly. If you stay clean, you can blend in places better and get the things you need. If you get new clothing from a thrift store every so often (which you likely could do them for a few bucks) you could not look "homeless" and not raise suspicion places. (You could also for free "trade" your dirty clothing for freshly donated clothing in the bins they put outside of thrift shops for donations.

High end hotels sometimes have facilities that a transient youth might want to use. Some have banquet facilities on the first floor that have very nice bathrooms, sometimes with personal care items in them. They also have events in the facilities that a person could possibly sneak into long enough to grab a snack. Weddings in these places would sometimes also put baskets of personal care items in these bathrooms for guest emergencies. They also sometimes have things like bowls of fruit or free breakfast buffets for guests, especially on a Sunday morning.


At this time in the 1980s, the Seattle music scene and the LA music scene were sort of jostling for superiority. There was a lot of back and forth movement of musicians. Where there is a music scene developing, there are kids flowing in to the "new cool city"

Seattle, Portland and San Francisco also have always (at least since the 1960s or so) had a fairly large population of street kids as well as LA, so it is possible she was traveling up and down the coast.

I also checked the Grateful Dead's tour records. They were on the east coast at the time, so she wasn't following them.

Another thought, since the purse was stolen in San Diego, she may have come from there. It's possible she was the girlfriend of someone in the Navy there and they broke up and she hit the road. If the procedure she had was an abortion, this would scenario would fit pretty well. Break up over the pregnancy, be depressed, commit suicide.

what exactly does objectification mean anyway?

neognosis , thats very interesting news about Caledonia jane doe :thanks: , remember what I said some days ago about people going missing and not being reported missing ? Could this be another case ? I guess only time will tell if she is connected with the missing florida girl ......

After reading about the caledonia doe , I now get the tan line issue you were raising :lol: ...for a while I couldnt make the connection but the penny has finally dropped :lol: :)

neognosis , thats very interesting news about Caledonia jane doe :thanks: , remember what I said some days ago about people going missing and not being reported missing ? Could this be another case ? I guess only time will tell if she is connected with the missing florida girl ......

After reading about the caledonia doe , I now get the tan line issue you were raising :lol: ...for a while I couldnt make the connection but the penny has finally dropped :lol: :)

yeah, if you read the pollen report and tan lines they deduced she was from california or florida. and tammy jo alexander is from florida, 16, and she is a hitchhiker and her parents own a trucking company and was in california and she frosts her hair. many of the deductions of cali jane doe from new york is true of tammy.

She moved her arms. The coroner only said it that way to explain the scene and use a mental image everyone would understand to express that she survived the fall. Fatally injured people often move and struggle while dying.

She did not jump or fall, receive fatal injuries and then think… "Hey! I should make sand angels. That would be spiritual and stuff."

Seriously, your simultaneous glorification and objectification of this woman is creepy and inappropriate. If she was still alive, she could likely get a restraining order against you if she gave a judge a copy of this thread.


Ok. Back to Dana Doe.

As for the purse, the most likely explanation is that she bought it in a thrift shop. Transient young adults often frequent them. Transient young adults also learn the ropes quickly. If you stay clean, you can blend in places better and get the things you need. If you get new clothing from a thrift store every so often (which you likely could do them for a few bucks) you could not look "homeless" and not raise suspicion places. (You could also for free "trade" your dirty clothing for freshly donated clothing in the bins they put outside of thrift shops for donations.

High end hotels sometimes have facilities that a transient youth might want to use. Some have banquet facilities on the first floor that have very nice bathrooms, sometimes with personal care items in them. They also have events in the facilities that a person could possibly sneak into long enough to grab a snack. Weddings in these places would sometimes also put baskets of personal care items in these bathrooms for guest emergencies. They also sometimes have things like bowls of fruit or free breakfast buffets for guests, especially on a Sunday morning.


At this time in the 1980s, the Seattle music scene and the LA music scene were sort of jostling for superiority. There was a lot of back and forth movement of musicians. Where there is a music scene developing, there are kids flowing in to the "new cool city"

Seattle, Portland and San Francisco also have always (at least since the 1960s or so) had a fairly large population of street kids as well as LA, so it is possible she was traveling up and down the coast.

I also checked the Grateful Dead's tour records. They were on the east coast at the time, so she wasn't following them.

Another thought, since the purse was stolen in San Diego, she may have come from there. It's possible she was the girlfriend of someone in the Navy there and they broke up and she hit the road. If the procedure she had was an abortion, this would scenario would fit pretty well. Break up over the pregnancy, be depressed, commit suicide.

necco , thats very interesting info about thrift stores and high end hotels :) :thumbsup: . Regarding the stolen purse , it was stolen in the mid 70`s in a bar IIRC , so its very unlikely it was Dana Point Jane Doe (DPJD) who stole it as she would have been a young girl at the time of the theft .......which leaves me wondering when and where she got the stolen purse from.....but I have to say the thrift store angle makes an interesting possibility :)

DPJD had a map of the LA freeway and Orange county so my suspicion is she came from the north or east of east of LA and passed through LA to get to Orange county .....if she was from San Diego going to Orange county she wouldnt have necessarily needed a map of the LA freeway , food for thought ....

yeah, if you read the pollen report and tan lines they deduced she was from california or florida. and tammy jo alexander is from florida, 16, and she is a hitchhiker and her parents own a trucking company and was in california and she frosts her hair. many of the deductions of cali jane doe from new york is true of tammy.

Yes the details have some tantalizing similarities between the two , what I find interesting is the pollen from mountainous parts of California found on the caledonia doe, if she does turn out to be Tammy Jo I will wonder how and what she may have been doing in mountainous parts of California .....

I also found it fascinating that caledonia wore some male clothing on her , did that jump out at you as well ?

Yes the details have some tantalizing similarities between the two , what I find interesting is the pollen from mountainous parts of California found on the caledonia doe, if she does turn out to be Tammy Jo I will wonder how and what she may have been doing in mountainous parts of California .....

I also found it fascinating that caledonia wore some male clothing on her , did that jump out at you as well ?

well the jacket she probably bummed of someone i think. tammy jo's friend said she and tammy managed to hitchhike to california, so yeah it fits. like a glove.

well the jacket she probably bummed of someone i think. tammy jo's friend said she and tammy managed to hitchhike to california, so yeah it fits. like a glove.

Interesting stuff,do you know what were they going to California for ?

Interesting stuff,do you know what were they going to California for ?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?257751-FL-Tammy-Alexander-14-16-Brooksville-1978-79

Just relaying some information received from Tammy's best friend from high school.

She says Tammy disappeared after the 78-79 school year was over, around May of 1979.

She says that they both ran away around Christmas of 1978, and caught rides from truckers all the way to California. She says that Tammy had a reason to run away. But her friend says that she just went along for the ride. Tammy's friend's mom had to pay for airfare back to Florida for both of them because Tammy's mom said "Leave her there".

She says that both she and Tammy wore earth shoes like the ones found on Cali, and that when she last saw Tammy, her hair was cut a little shorter than in her sophomore photo. She doesn't recognize the turquoise necklace or the keychains that fit together.

She still has the names of some of the truckers that they traveled with.

https://charleyross.wordpress.com/2014/09/28/charleys-facebook-page/

Update: For those interested inlearning more about Tammy Jo Alexander’s life before she vanished.

According to her very close high school girlfriend Tammy had the dreams and aspirations of a typical young teenager. A Future Business Leaders of America in high school she talked about going to the University of Florida, while at the same time spoke of her longing to marring her boyfriend Kevin when she turned 18.

Her dad managed a local truck stop and ”she loved chatting on the CB radio with the truckers,” during a era when movies like ‘Convoy’ and ‘Smokey and the Bandit’ depicted long haul truckers as romantic knights of the interstate.

Her friend describes Tammy’s personality as “ very outgoing, not a shy bone in her body.”

At the time she went missing Tammy’s brown hair was frosted blonde in keeping with her favorite song; Rod Stewart’s ‘Blondes (have more fun).’

For various reason’s Tammy developed wanderlust at a young age. Before she vanished completely she once ran away from home with a girlfriend, hitching rides with truckers, (people she felt she could trust) all the way from Florida to southern California before her friends mother bought plane tickets for both girl to return home..

She vanished sometime in the late spring of 1979, not January of 1977 as listed in her NamUs profile. Its unknown if she was reported missing the second time.

Tammy vanished long before authorities learned that some truckers, like Robert Ben Rhoades and John Robert Williams, were serial killers. And decades before the FBI would state, “that serial killers working as long-haul truckers are responsible for the slayings of hundreds of prostitutes, hitchhikers and stranded motorists whose bodies have been dumped near highways over the last three decades.”

Thanks to her long ago friend Tammy Jo Alexander was added to NamUs this summer, 35 years after she was last seen alive, but make no mistake – she was never forgotten.

Los Angeles Times

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/05/local/me-serialkillers

lining up with cali jane doe

She had brown eyes and wavy, light brown shoulder-length hair that had been frosted in the front (with blonde highlights) about four months prior to her death and was growing out. Her toenails were painted with coral-colored nail polish.[3]

She had visible tan lines from a halter top or bikini, suggesting that she may have come from a region with abundant October–November sunshine, as sun tanning beds were uncommon in the 1970s.[6][9] There were freckles on the backs of her shoulders and acne on her face and chest.[3]

A few hours before her death, Caledonia Jane Doe had eaten sweet corn; potatoes; and boiled, canned ham, possibly from a diner in Lima, New York, where she had been seen by a waitress, with a man.

Australian pine, or Casuarina, is an invasive genus of tree that grows in a limited number of locations in North America: south Florida; south Texas; parts of Mexico; the campuses of the University of Arizona and Arizona State University; and three regions in California: the North Bay of San Francisco, the San Luis Obispo area, and the San Diego area.[7] Casuarina cannot survive the autumn and winter seasons in the temperate climate of the New York region where Caledonia Jane Doe was found.[14][15] She or her clothing would not have acquired the Casuarina pollen grains at the dump site.

Overall, researchers believe the southern California and San Diego region to be the best geographical pollen print match location for the grains from Caledonia Jane Doe's clothing.[7] Based on the pollen evidence and the girl's visible tan lines, forensic researchers suggested that Caledonia Jane Doe may have originally lived in the southwestern United States near San Diego, California, then traveled (perhaps by hitchhiking) through the Sierra Nevada mountains where spruce and birch grow, passing through Reno, Nevada, and then traveled across the country to New York, where she was murdered.[5][7][16]




and http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1ufny.html


It was reported that several truckers called in with information about a young girl who was traveling and catching rides where she could. One trucker swore he saw the girl the night before she was murdered trying to hitch a ride to Boston from a nearby truck stop. It is unknown if this information has been confirmed.

DNA tests are pending. i'm 99% sure Caledonia Jane Do is Tammy Alexander and that is her life story. She probably got a red jacked possibly from him. She was with presumably a trucker who gave her dinner at Lima restaurant 9 miles where she was found. I believe the trucker tried to have sex with her, she refused, so he shot her dragged her and shot her again. So solving this case would be knowing the name of the trucker at the Lima Diner who owns a 0.38 gun.

based on eye witness testimony and combining it with what we know of tammy jo alexander so it is clear that there was a truck stop in new york where she met a trucker who may have given her a red jacket so he was nice, and gave her dinner at the Lima NY restaurant. he drive 9 miles and pull over and probably wanted sex, after all he paid for her dinner. she refused and walked out. he came up to her shot her and dragged her.

we're looking for the trucker who was seen with her by a waitress at a diner 9 miles the night before. no struggle shot in head b/c she trusted and grew up around truckers and this trucker gave her dinner.

im curious as to DPJD backstory.

This has to be one of the top five stupidest comments I've ever read on this forum, and I'm not sorry for being frank about it. Appearance has no correlation to poverty. A boyfriend to help her out with what? Mental illness? Homelessness? Hunger? Poverty? Ain't no damn boyfriend gonna help anyone out with that.

Your bizarre attraction to this unfortunate woman freaks me out.Man, you don't come to this forum in a while and you miss things like this. :lol:

Thank you. I was becoming agitated reading some of these comments. Stop glorifying the poor girls death. Just because she was "white and pretty" doesn't mean she was wealthy. She could of had a hard life. Anything could of happened to her. She could have been depressed for all we know. Leave the girl be, let her rest in peace. I can't stand the ignorance in this thread.

Agreed in full.

I believe her last act as a spiritual person was to tell the world that despite her poverty she was going to tell this world there are angels.

I believe you need to get a grip on reality.

what exactly does objectification mean anyway?

And a dictionary. Maybe after you do that, you can cross reference the definition with your previous post about what a nice "package" this woman had after your review of the information about the specifics of her deceased body.

necco , thats very interesting info about thrift stores and high end hotels :) :thumbsup: . Regarding the stolen purse , it was stolen in the mid 70`s in a bar IIRC , so its very unlikely it was Dana Point Jane Doe (DPJD) who stole it as she would have been a young girl at the time of the theft .......which leaves me wondering when and where she got the stolen purse from.....but I have to say the thrift store angle makes an interesting possibility :)

DPJD had a map of the LA freeway and Orange county so my suspicion is she came from the north or east of east of LA and passed through LA to get to Orange county .....if she was from San Diego going to Orange county she wouldnt have necessarily needed a map of the LA freeway , food for thought ....

Right, my guess is the purse was stolen and was used by someone else. Perhaps it eventually it ended up in a thrift store where Dana Doe picked it up.
Since it was stolen in San Diego, there is a good possibility that's where Dana Doe picked it up, thus me bringing up the large naval population and the possibility that maybe she had been living there with a boyfriend after leaving home. Since sailors move frequently, her family may have lost track of her and that could be why she wasn't reported missing.

Obviously, it is equally possible that whoever had the purse moved and donated it in the LA area or even elsewhere.

As for the men's underwear, it is entirely possible that she was wearing it simply because men's underwear is usually less expensive than women's. Or maybe the thrift shop (like goodwill or the salvation army) happened to have a package of new men's underwear when she was there. Apparently some charity thrift shops will take clean used underwear donations, so maybe that's what they had or that's what looked cleanest.

IMO DPJD wanted to die by the beach, to hear the crashing waves, to draw an angel in the sand, as the last thing she experiences before she leaves this world, and i think that is very spiritual.

This has to be one of the top five stupidest comments I've ever read on this forum.

Meg, I love your responses.

I think the all-time STUPIDEST comment I've read on here was that one from that guy who was hero-worshipping Jon Yount as this guy who devoted his life to doing great things and how he was supposedly demanding of our respect and admiration, and how "unfair" it was he wasn't paroled after a few years. Not sure I'll ever forget that one.

Meg, I love your responses.

I think the all-time STUPIDEST comment I've read on here was that one from that guy who was hero-worshipping Jon Yount as this guy who devoted his life to doing great things and how he was supposedly demanding of our respect and admiration, and how "unfair" it was he wasn't paroled after a few years. Not sure I'll ever forget that one.

Incarcerated inmates don't have internet access, do they? Just askin'. :whatever:

I read in one article that a front desk agent of a hotel I believe said she came in and asked where the tallest building in the area was. This was before she called the cab. I believe she killed herself based on everything

I read in one article that a front desk agent of a hotel I believe said she came in and asked where the tallest building in the area was. This was before she called the cab. I believe she killed herself based on everything

I heard that to, but a variation is that she asked for an hi-rise as in high-end expensive.

I can't imagine what would cause her to commit suicide and also to not leave any ID behind

I think the all-time STUPIDEST comment I've read on here was that one from that guy who was hero-worshipping Jon Yount as this guy who devoted his life to doing great things and how he was supposedly demanding of our respect and admiration, and how "unfair" it was he wasn't paroled after a few years. Not sure I'll ever forget that one.

YES. That guy used to be my #1, until this dude came along. Number 3 would have to be Matt C's racist drivel. Number 4 is probably a tie between the collected works of Francium and cocytus.

Meg, I love your responses.

I think the all-time STUPIDEST comment I've read on here was that one from that guy who was hero-worshipping Jon Yount as this guy who devoted his life to doing great things and how he was supposedly demanding of our respect and admiration, and how "unfair" it was he wasn't paroled after a few years. Not sure I'll ever forget that one.You're talking about rarjake. I don't think I've agreed with one thing he's ever posted.

I heard that to, but a variation is that she asked for an hi-rise as in high-end expensive.

I can't imagine what would cause her to commit suicide and also to not leave any ID behind

The easy answer to that is she didn't want anyone to know who she was. I have a friend who used to frequent these boards a lot, but he doesn't anymore. He and I were recently chatting about this case and he speculated she may have been a runaway turned prostitute.

REALISTICALLY speaking-- I think he's on to something.

Late to the party I know, but she wasn't asking for "high end hotels" she was askign for tall buildings in the area. I.e. likely the kind of place she could jump from and kill herself. That is, of course, assuming this was the same person as the Jane Doe (now identified).