I thought this might be an interesting topic. What people featured on UM do you feel have gotten a bad rap on here over the years, and undeservedly so? I'll start the discussion with 3 selections:

The Hechts - The Hechts have been painted as holier-than-thou snobs, but I didn't really get that vibe from them. I don't think they looked down on the poor, but I do think they were suspicious of Tony, and frankly, they had every reason to be. Whether Tony is guilty or not, his behavior ranged from bizarre to inappropriate.

Anton Kline - Ditto. Anton Kline gets labeled as an uppity louse, but I think his concerns about Crystal's profession were justified. Heck, it may have been what led to her death. There are a lot of richer people who wouldn't associate with an exotic dancer, but I think he enjoyed her company and being able to introduce her to things she otherwise didn't get the chance to. And to top it off, he seemed to be the only person in that segment who actually tried to help her AND thought she was murdered AND tried to find out who did it.

Rob Schaffer - Angela Hammond is easily the most discussed case on this forum, and the "Rob did it" theory seemed to be a way to keep it as the most discussed case, by offering a different spin on it. In reality, there's nothing to suggest that Rob did it, he comes off as a nice, young handsome guy who moved Heaven and Earth to try and save Angie, and seemed genuinely saddened by the events that transpired. Unfortunately, it seems like Rob takes his share of criticism.

Christie Mutzfeld. I have NEVER been able to wrap my mind around the wacked-out logic that she is responsible for Mahfuz Huq murdering Todd Kelley.

Jimmy Aprille. Some people have said he was bitter and cold. I don't think so at all and found him quite likable.

Huey Littleton. I feel more pity for him than anything else, and felt his hanging on every stupid local teenager's word was just a phase of his particular grieving process. I thought he seemed very nice.

I liked Huey Littleton. I've actually incorporated the "this as 'bout as low..." speech into my real-life conversations before. I know that he had background in law enforcement and I think he felt he could have used that to benefit the investigation.

Christie Mutzfeld. I have NEVER been able to wrap my mind around the wacked-out logic that she is responsible for Mahfuz Huq murdering Todd Kelley.

YES 100%!!!! I have never understood the Christie hate on here. I found her interview to be really genuine and raw. Imagine if your ex-boyfriend murdered your boyfriend...and his parents blamed you and didn't even let you say your last goodbyes? That's just awful.

Jimmy Aprille. Some people have said he was bitter and cold. I don't think so at all and found him quite likable.
Agreed. He endured his wife draining their funds and stealing his children plus nearly died due to health problems. In the interview, he seems much more concerned with getting his children back and insists they are the victims. Never understood why he got flack for that.

Huey Littleton. I feel more pity for him than anything else, and felt his hanging on every stupid local teenager's word was just a phase of his particular grieving process. I thought he seemed very nice.
I don't understand why people dislike him. His daughter and son-in-law were literally blown apart by shotgun blasts and he had people coming up and telling him horrible things. Being a good guy, he wanted to see if the accounts were true so he could get full justice. A lot of these accounts may have been false, but if you heard that your murdered child and their spouse may have been victimized even worse than you thought by more parties involved, wouldn't you want to investigate, too?


Another to add on:

Colleen Ritter. I'm disgusted that a lot of people have said that she didn't look "sad enough" in her interview, among worse things. Wow.

Two words: Bob. Bean.

Cindy Anderson's father, Michael Anderson: A lot of people here seemed to be pretty put off by his behaviour in his UM interview. I will admit that the guy seemed pretty strict and old fashioned and some of his comments came off strangely (particularly the "debutante" line), but I also sensed that the guy genuinely loved and missed his daughter and he sounded pretty sincere when he said that the door was open for Cindy to come back if she did run away on her own. I've seen a few posts on this forum speculating that he could have been responsible for Cindy's disappearance, a theory which I find absolutely ridiculous.

I have a feeling I'm going to be alone on this one but I'll add it to the list anyway; Diane Strom. I know people here hate her for the miss the old Jenny comment, and yes, she probably could have chosen her words better there but I couldn't help but feel for her in the segment. Her daughter had this horrible thing happen to her, everybody in that city knew who did it and nobody had been arrested. She had already tearfully described what Jenny first looked like in the hospital room with the tubes all over her over body and her hair completely red from all the blood. I'm sure any parent would be losing their mind.

Cindy Anderson's father, Michael Anderson: A lot of people here seemed to be pretty put off by his behaviour in his UM interview. I will admit that the guy seemed pretty strict and old fashioned and some of his comments came off strangely (particularly the "debutante" line), but I also sensed that the guy genuinely loved and missed his daughter and he sounded pretty sincere when he said that the door was open for Cindy to come back if she did run away on her own. I've seen a few posts on this forum speculating that he could have been responsible for Cindy's disappearance, a theory which I find absolutely ridiculous.

+1

Also totally agree on the Hechts, especially Martine. There was never any indication that the family initially spurned Tony solely because he was a street person, and his behavior WAS bizarre and inappropriate. If I was looking for my son who I hadn't heard from in weeks and instead found Tony trying to accost me with a kiss, I'd be frightened and disgusted, too.

I have a feeling I'm going to be alone on this one but I'll add it to the list anyway; Diane Strom. I know people here hate her for the miss the old Jenny comment, and yes, she probably could have chosen her words better there but I couldn't help but feel for her in the segment. Her daughter had this horrible thing happen to her, everybody in that city knew who did it and nobody had been arrested. She had already tearfully described what Jenny first looked like in the hospital room with the tubes all over her over body and her hair completely red from all the blood. I'm sure any parent would be losing their mind.

I'm definitely with you on this one. I know that "I sure miss the old Jenny" could be seen as not so great...but I don't think so at all. I think Diane had great hopes for her daughter, had visions of her daughter going to college, meeting a great guy, getting married, having children...and now that was all taken away by some idiot. She never got to see her daughter's dreams come true. That must be really hard, and of course the mental and financial draining the whole situation must have caused. I think Diane loves her daughter no matter what, I really do....but I can understand why she is frustrated. Sometimes, it seems, life deals people a bad hand and it's hard to understand why. I feel very bad for Diane, Jenny and their whole family.

I liked Huey Littleton. I've actually incorporated the "this as 'bout as low..." speech into my real-life conversations before. I know that he had background in law enforcement and I think he felt he could have used that to benefit the investigation.

I, too, liked Huey. I don't know why people felt he was irritating. The police grew frustrated with him, too. Really? For refusing to give up on finding out what happened to your child? I like Huey - and even if he was on a bit of a witch-hunt as some people speculate...if someone killed my child, I'd be hunting down every witch I could find as well.
Funny, physically, Huey reminds me of another UM personality...looks and build wise, with the silver hair, he remind me of Ethel Kidd's son in law (who I also liked).

I have mixed thoughts on Michael Anderson. On one hand he did say that Cindy was the type of daughter that you enjoyed having around, but the debutante line was really off-putting, especially since he suggested it was the cause of her disappearance. I think I've liked him a little more as time passes, and I definitely don't think he had anything to do with her disappearance.

Sorry, never been a fan of Diane Strom. I've talked about it at length, but she did a lot more to bug me than just the "old Jenny" comment. A lot more.

I'm going to say Shawn Bordeaux, I don't think he's responsible for Jodie's murder, and the way I interpreted his seeming greater concern for the baby than his wife is that sometimes when we lose people we love it is harder to accept/more painful if there was some chance that person we loved might have been saved versus a loved one who died immediately that we knew there was no way to save. Jodie was gone immediately, but perhaps the baby might have been saved. Also there's the fact that he had time with Jodie, but their daughter's life and potential was over before it even started. That's the way I see that, at least. I think that someone on the Kickapoo rez is reponsible for Jodie's death. I'd have to find it, and hope that I've earned link privileges now, but there was an article in Indian Country Today at the time the segment aired which said that several people on the rez had been threatened/warned against talking to UM's people.

Edit - Ok, going to try and post the link, here goes...
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2000/12/06/after-three-years-still-no-justice-jodie-86499

Edit again - Whoops, this is not the link that talks about the threats, this is the article that brought UM's attention to the case. I need to find the one from after the taping...

Edit one more time, found it - Ok, here's the one about the UM taping, there were threats being made against people who wanted to tell their story to UM:
https://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2001/06/20/unsolved-mysteries-explores-kickapoo-double-murder-86861

Another person I think has gotten some unjust criticism around here is the cab driver in the Dana Point Jane Doe case because he didn't take the victim to her planned destination because she was a few bucks short, and she was found dead at the bottom of a cliff the next morning. I've seen some comments suggest that her death wouldn't have happened if he had just driven her the whole way.

I don't know, I've always believed there was no foul play involved and that the girl was always planning to commit suicide, no matter what. You can criticize the driver for being a cheapskate, but I don't think it's fair to suggest he's somehow culpable in the girl's death. Even if he drove her the whole way, I don't think there's anything he could have done to prevent her from taking her own life.

Charles Holden gets a bad rap from some posters on here. Some have suggested that he was somehow responsible for his mother's murder, because he didn't attempt to stop the guy walking towards his mother's house. The guy was just attacked by a knife wielding psycho, obviously he's not going to be of sound mind to make rational decisions.

Charles Holden gets a bad rap from some posters on here. Some have suggested that he was somehow responsible for his mother's murder, because he didn't attempt to stop the guy walking towards his mother's house. The guy was just attacked by a knife wielding psycho, obviously he's not going to be of sound mind to make rational decisions.

And when he saw the guy, I believe he was walking towards Charles' house at the time. His mother's house was behind his house. It ended up being a sad twist of fate that the guy broke into the mother's house instead of Charles'.

What exactly do you do in that situation? Beep your horn to get his attention elsewhere? Yell at him to come back and attack you again? You're obviously not going to run him over. You don't have neighbors close by that can help you. What exactly was he supposed to do?

Another person I think has gotten some unjust criticism around here is the cab driver in the Dana Point Jane Doe case because he didn't take the victim to her planned destination because she was a few bucks short, and she was found dead at the bottom of a cliff the next morning. I've seen some comments suggest that her death wouldn't have happened if he had just driven her the whole way.

I don't know, I've always believed there was no foul play involved and that the girl was always planning to commit suicide, no matter what. You can criticize the driver for being a cheapskate, but I don't think it's fair to suggest he's somehow culpable in the girl's death. Even if he drove her the whole way, I don't think there's anything he could have done to prevent her from taking her own life.

Maybe he shouldn't be blamed for her death but I still think he acted kind of crummy.

Bobbie Parker.

And when he saw the guy, I believe he was walking towards Charles' house at the time. His mother's house was behind his house. It ended up being a sad twist of fate that the guy broke into the mother's house instead of Charles'.

What exactly do you do in that situation? Beep your horn to get his attention elsewhere? Yell at him to come back and attack you again? You're obviously not going to run him over. You don't have neighbors close by that can help you. What exactly was he supposed to do?

Exactly. No neighbors, no cell phones back then. He literally had nothing else to do in that situation but to drive away and call for help from a payphone.

Another person I think has gotten some unjust criticism around here is the cab driver in the Dana Point Jane Doe case because he didn't take the victim to her planned destination because she was a few bucks short, and she was found dead at the bottom of a cliff the next morning. I've seen some comments suggest that her death wouldn't have happened if he had just driven her the whole way.

I don't know, I've always believed there was no foul play involved and that the girl was always planning to commit suicide, no matter what. You can criticize the driver for being a cheapskate, but I don't think it's fair to suggest he's somehow culpable in the girl's death. Even if he drove her the whole way, I don't think there's anything he could have done to prevent her from taking her own life.

Assuming it went down exactly the way the segment portrayed it, that cabbie was a pretty heartless "by the book" jerk (and that's being polite).

This was around 4am in the middle of nowhere, certainly not the typical passenger trying to jump the fare situation. So if he was too uptight to have the heart to drive a vulnerable young woman another mile or so (even if he had to take $2 out of his own pocket), it would've been better to drop her off at some point BEFORE that where it was well lit and safe. She'd still likely be alive today. Anything's possible and we'll never know, but that'd be a pretty elaborate and painstaking way to commit suicide, so I don't buy it. Plus, how would she know that's where the fare money was going to run out?

Sorry, but it's selfish, stuck up people like that who won't go an inch out of their way for another person who make this world a little worse. I hate to use this cliche, but what if it was your mom/sister/daughter/girlfriend etc. in a one time tight spot like this?

Another person I think has gotten some unjust criticism around here is the cab driver in the Dana Point Jane Doe case because he didn't take the victim to her planned destination because she was a few bucks short, and she was found dead at the bottom of a cliff the next morning. I've seen some comments suggest that her death wouldn't have happened if he had just driven her the whole way.

I don't know, I've always believed there was no foul play involved and that the girl was always planning to commit suicide, no matter what. You can criticize the driver for being a cheapskate, but I don't think it's fair to suggest he's somehow culpable in the girl's death. Even if he drove her the whole way, I don't think there's anything he could have done to prevent her from taking her own life.

I agree.

If the segment is to be believed, however, the only thing the cab driver is really guilty of (IMO) is being rude to the young woman when she said she only had $18 on her. He could have simply said "I can take you as far as that will get you. Sorry, but those are the rules." Instead, he heaves an exasperated sigh and groans "Yeah, get in." as if she's being purposely difficult.

But I agree. I think this woman was planning to commit suicide regardless. According to Dana Point Jane Doe's thread on Websleuths, Jane actually mentioned something to the cabbie about her car having broken down and asked him to take her to the Ritz Carlton in Laguna Beach, not Ross Towers as mentioned in the re-enactment. However, when her body was found, her purse contained no wallet, driver's license, or cash. It is therefore assumed that that $18 was the last of her money. If that's the case, that means that even if the cabbie agree to spot her the extra two bucks and take her to the hotel, she wouldn't have had any money to get a room there.

Bobbie Parker.

Yes. Total Agreement high-five to you. I believe Bobbi Parker is a victim. Even Randolph Dial himself never once claimed she even so much as hinted she had any semblance of feeling for him in the beginning nor any desire to bust him out of prison. I don't doubt she was thoroughly brainwashed over the years. Thank God for her safe return and for men as strong as Randy Parker (who ALSO gets a bad rap on here often).

But I agree. I think this woman was planning to commit suicide regardless. According to Dana Point Jane Doe's thread on Websleuths, Jane actually mentioned something to the cabbie about her car having broken down and asked him to take her to the Ritz Carlton in Laguna Beach, not Ross Towers as mentioned in the re-enactment. However, when her body was found, her purse contained no wallet, driver's license, or cash. It is therefore assumed that that $18 was the last of her money. If that's the case, that means that even if the cabbie agree to spot her the extra two bucks and take her to the hotel, she wouldn't have had any money to get a room there.

Yes, according to her Doe Network profile, authorities could find no abandoned vehicles anywhere in the vicinity around that time, so it seems like her story about her car breaking down didn't ring true. I always wondered if she was originally planning to do some sort of Gail Delano scenario where she checked into a hotel to commit suicide, but like you said, she wouldn't have had the money for a room.

Taxicab driver must be a tough job. It's dangerous (Lucie Turmel). Plus, you had to know the area like the back of your hand, at least in the olden days. You have to be familiar with all the one-way routes and such, it's a job I could never do - I don't think. I work nights, and believe me, you meet all sorts of drunks, freaks and weirdos. You never know what somebody like that is capable of. I'm willing to bet this taxi driver had probably seen people skip out on the fare more than a time or two. Plus, you have to figure that he might have been chewed out by his boss if he took someone farther than what they could pay. I'm not comfortable in blaming him for her death. I also don't see how "yeah, get in" can be considered rude.

One name I wanted to mention was Lisa Penz. She gets trashed pretty regularly on these boards, but she didn't bother me. I don't think she was making derogotary remarks about weight, rather she was confused at how somebody who would stick out like a sore thumb (as my mom would say) would go undetected. I also don't think she meant to imply that the entire city of Atlanta was on drugs. I think what she meant was there was at least one person a day who applied that was on drugs. While I do believe that Lisa Penz should have done a background check, I will add that her personnel file was stolen, which must have been a nightmare for her.

My supervisors occasionally do job fairs -- right on site at the workplace. They've told me horror stories and how many people apply, but few are qualified. Some of them you can just tell from the outset you don't want them working for your company. Some just don't have the appropriate appearance or attitude to work in an industry in which you serve the public. I can totally sympathize with Lisa Penz in that sense.

One name I wanted to mention was Lisa Penz. She gets trashed pretty regularly on these boards, but she didn't bother me. I don't think she was making derogotary remarks about weight, rather she was confused at how somebody who would stick out like a sore thumb (as my mom would say) would go undetected. I also don't think she meant to imply that the entire city of Atlanta was on drugs. I think what she meant was there was at least one person a day who applied that was on drugs. While I do believe that Lisa Penz should have done a background check, I will add that her personnel file was stolen, which must have been a nightmare for her.

I agree. I think she was merely driving home the point that a ton of unqualified people had tried out for the position at that store. And really, you're going to see more people with issues in a big major city like Atlanta as opposed to a small town because of the population size.

The lack of background check was a major mistake on her part but hardly uncommon. As we learned later in the segment, Bonnie easily pulled off the same heist in dozens of other cities and states before she even got to Atlanta. So there were many people that didn't do background checks on her alone.
Even today, background checks are not as common as many might think.

Although I do have to say that Lisa's delivery on the memorable quotes is pretty funny. The way she said, "you don't get lost in a crowd when you are enormous," will always crack me up.

Assuming it went down exactly the way the segment portrayed it, that cabbie was a pretty heartless "by the book" jerk (and that's being polite).

Sorry, but it's selfish, stuck up people like that who won't go an inch out of their way for another person who make this world a little worse. I hate to use this cliche, but what if it was your mom/sister/daughter/girlfriend etc. in a one time tight spot like this?

I agree. I think many people may get an undeserved bad rap; I do not think the Dana Point cab driver was one of them. If I had been the Jane Doe, I would have REFUSED to exit the vehicle and be alone, even I had honestly run out of money. Go ahead, call the cops. Safer than being out there alone.

I don't think he's legally responsible for her death; morally he behaved like a major jerk. We've sunk pretty low if we think performing a literally effortless action (i.e., not kicking someone out of your vehicle vs. actively kicking them out) that could save someone's life is "too much" to expect.

I don't even think it matters whether she planned to commit suicide; HE didn't know that. In his estimate, she was just a human being whose well-being was clearly not worth a few dollars. ticked:

What I would like to know is if the account actually happened like it was portrayed in the reenactment? To be fair, she did ask for him to take her as far as 18 bucks would go. But regardless of it being how the cabbie makes his living, I think leaving a young woman in the middle of nowhere like that was pretty bad.

On a sidenote, I've always wondered if she fell or actually jumped.

Sharon Stevens. I'm not normally into lost love segments, but hers was one of the most poignant ones, and I was revolted about all of the comments about her looks. There was even one troll on here who spent half his time making degoratory comments about her appearance, some (perhaps all) of those comments were removed, and the poster was banned (or at least was at one point).

And speaking of which, I definitely don't believe the one guy from elsewhere on the net that claimed Mr. Zielinski was a child abuser and Mrs. Zielinksi was an enabler. Big load of crap, IMO.

Dennis Farina. Just kidding.

Dennis Farina. Just kidding.


No, its true. The poor guy was just doing his job. He couldn't help it that TPTB screwed up UM in the Spike episodes, or that Stack left impossibly large shoes to fill. I always felt sorry for Farina because of that.

I'm starting to think Dale Kerstetter.

I'm starting to think Dale Kerstetter.

For real.

No, its true. The poor guy was just doing his job. He couldn't help it that TPTB screwed up UM in the Spike episodes, or that Stack left impossibly large shoes to fill. I always felt sorry for Farina because of that.

I definitely agree, and Dennis Farina wasn't a bad host by any means, even if he was sort of put into a virtual impossible situation with the massive shoes he had to fill and everything else. That being the case what with hardcore U.M. fans mostly not liking what the new version of the show became when he took over, with the revamp in general, along simply not being the Unsolved Mysteries we all knew, and loved. That despite showing the same exact episodes from before, as the original series did. Nobody could ever be (or beat) Robert Stack though, and seemed like that's who he tried to be, especially with pretty much rehearsing his lines in the cases, what with saying them pretty much exactly as Stack said them in the original versions.

At the same time, he still gave us back Unsolved Mysteries for a brief period of time, and for some of us, got to see some "new" segments which Lifetime didn't air. That helped me personally discover some episodes I never knew existed, and was also good to see some updates on others too, which were solved between Stack's death, and the revamp. Yeah the Dennis Farina Unsolved Mysteries was vastly inferior to the old version, but was still much better than nothing. I was very glad to see the show on the air once again, one way or another, and am thankful they bought it back again during that time period. Discovering the new cases I did made the new series well worth it all the way, in my opinion, along with others who may have done the same as a result.

Farina gets unfairly criticized by some simply because he's rereading Stack's narration. Had Farina got a new script or new segments, I think he would have done a fine job.

That was kind of the problem too, since he said virtually the same exact things Stack did, when he was hosting the episodes. Even then, he still did a decent job, despite the new show not quite having the same feel the old Unsolved Mysteries did. It probably would have been a better show on its own (along with Farina being seen as a much better host then he was), had if it not been merely a recycled version of U.M., but would have been very good as a stand alone of some sorts.

Totally agree with you guys.

Farina also was somewhat bland, and his voice, tone, and personality didn't add nearly as much to the show as Stack did, which was obviously a big part of why U.M. was what it was. Another thing was that the new/Farina U.M. never really was all that scary, and I don't think it would have even fazed me too much, or even at all as a kid, when I grew up watching the Stack segments, which often gave me (and many others) nightmares. Plus the new U.M. kind of seemed like it was more America's Most Wanted light, than Unsolved Mysteries also, for the most part. It was still was a good show in itself I.M.O., despite being vastly inferior to the genuine version, and even to A.M.W. to a lesser extent if you compare it to that too, for that matter.

I agree that RS left some big BIG shoes to fill. However, I thought Dennis Farina did a good job with what Spike TV was giving him. I never blamed him for the horrendous joke UM ultimately became. Being a film buff/movie geek, at the end of the day I never blame the actors-- I blame the DIRECTORS. In UM's downward spiral, the fault clearly lies with Spike TV and the heavy-metal laced, testosterone fueled way they chose to edit and revamp the show.

Man, why DO people hate Huey Littleton? I liked him, too....

I also think the "Rob did it" people need to give it a rest. I see guilty people proclaiming their innocence every single day. Rob is not one of them. He's the poor guy who did everything he could, but will forever blame himself for whatever happened to Angela Hammond.

Dorothy Wacker.

Dorothy Wacker.No joke. I mean yikes.

No joke. I mean yikes.

And I don't get it. Some segments hint or actually have evidence presented that something was off about someone's story or a possibility that they could be making it up, but I never once got that vibe from the Wacker segment.

Farina also was somewhat bland, and his voice, tone, and personality didn't add nearly as much to the show as Stack did, which was obviously a big part of why U.M. was what it was.

This. I never had anything personal against Farina. He seemed like the nicest guy on the planet in past interviews I've seen of him. But I was never a fan of his narration skills. Yes, he was reading Robert Stack's words but he still had some really awkward pauses here and there. There were also times where he would make his voice go up at the end of sentences, almost sounding too hard to make his words sound dramatic when the words themselves were already dramatic enough. If you had given him brand new cases to cover, those narration issues would still be lackluster. Just my opinion.

Farnia had a soft and soothing voice. I was babysitting my 3 year old nephew a few weeks ago and we were watching the kiddie show Doc McStuffins together when I noticed one of the toys was being voiced by Farina. He sounded so much more natural there. Actor and voice actor, great. Narrator, not so much.

And I don't get it. Some segments hint or actually have evidence presented that something was off about someone's story or a possibility that they could be making it up, but I never once got that vibe from the Wacker segment.

Mr Wacker just seemed so sincere.

I had no problem with Farina as the host of the show. He was no Robert Stack but who could be. In fact I feel disappointed that all Farina was given was the old stories rehashed instead of new Unsolved Mysteries of the current millennium.

Mr Wacker just seemed so sincere.

They both did. Not to mention the police officer interviewed for the segment never once hinted that he didn't believe their story, or that there was a possibility that they were making it up for attention.

I agree. The Wackers came off as a genuinely frustrated couple intent on finding out who was harassing them. I particularly find Mr. Wacker's speech about how they shouldn't have to move really compelling; he's right that they shouldn't have to abandon their home.

I might be in the minority, but I liked Anton Kline. I thought he seemed to really have deep feelings for Crystal (even if might not have been reciprocated, as it's been speculated). When he talks about how she "knew she would be become a very famous actress" and her excitement to go to Japan, I get the vibe that he was really hoping for her to succeed. I also admired his determination to figure out how she died and why.

Jeanne Tovrea and her sister.

I had no problem with Farina as the host of the show. He was no Robert Stack but who could be. In fact I feel disappointed that all Farina was given was the old stories rehashed instead of new Unsolved Mysteries of the current millennium.

True, and at least we still got to see the old U.M. cases we grew up with, despite them simply being not nearly the thrill ride when Stack hosted. Farina did what he could though with what he had to work with, and the way the show was revamped was mainly what made it not nearly as exciting, or scary. While the same segments did make the show feel like U.M. as much as it ever could have.

I do wish we also could have seen some new stories too (even if some of us sort of did with ones Lifetime would never, and/or rarely show, even if that technically doesn't count), which would have gave the fans more of a reason to watch it at the same time. Instead the new U.M. was really nothing more than mere rehashes of the previous cases most of us saw, and already had.

As a result, a lot of us fans didn't have a whole much an incentive to keep watching, after we sort of had to check it out at first to see if it was any good. All that kept me going was seeing if any segments I didn't know of before would be aired, along with any updates for cases, which occurred after Stack's death, and before the new U.M.

Stack was just merely the natural host for the show, and was something Farina simply could never possibly be in anyway. That despite doing his part I felt to make the show as best as it could be under the circumstances. At the same time, him (or anyone but Stack for that matter) simply wasn't going to cut it, along with how the new U.M. in general for the typical hardcore fan.

Jeanne Tovrea and her sister.

Indeed. Especially the sister. When that case was on the forbidden site, she was blasted with comments that painted her as nothing short of the devil for saying this [murders] happens to other people, it doesn't happen to my family.

I never thought she was saying other people deserved to be murdered over her sister. Only that its a completely different feeling when it happens to a member of your own family. Nothing more. Let's put down the fire and pitchforks.

I think folks are too harsh on the Dana Point cab driver. Hindsight is 20/20. She asked him to take her as far as the $18 would take her. He did that, knowing he wouldn't even get a tip. Cabbies don't make a lot of money without tips. He dropped her off at a restaurant, not in the middle of nowhere.

Rob Shaffer didn't do it. So he gets a bum rap.

Christine Mutzfeld gets a bad rap as well. And Bobbi Parker.

Sarah Powell also is crucified on here a lot and I truly believe SOMETHING traumatic happened to her, although I'm unsure what that was.

I think folks are too harsh on the Dana Point cab driver. Hindsight is 20/20. She asked him to take her as far as the $18 would take her. He did that, knowing he wouldn't even get a tip. Cabbies don't make a lot of money without tips. He dropped her off at a restaurant, not in the middle of nowhere.



Yeah ,I agree + that cab driver even said there was nothing about her that seemed unusal so he really had no inkling about what was up with the lady........... just to go off topic a little ----everytime I go to the beach and its lonely and the sea is raging I always seem to think of that case and that lady

I think folks are too harsh on the Dana Point cab driver. Hindsight is 20/20. She asked him to take her as far as the $18 would take her. He did that, knowing he wouldn't even get a tip. Cabbies don't make a lot of money without tips. He dropped her off at a restaurant, not in the middle of nowhere.

Rob Shaffer didn't do it. So he gets a bum rap.

Christine Mutzfeld gets a bad rap as well. And Bobbi Parker.

Sarah Powell also is crucified on here a lot and I truly believe SOMETHING traumatic happened to her, although I'm unsure what that was.

I agree with pretty much all of that. Except Sarah Powell. I think if something traumatic happened to her, it was the realization of how much her lies have affected people.

I need to rewatch Christie Mutzfeld as it's been awhile since I've seen that one, but my initial impression was that she was an innocent third party.

The store clerk from the George Owens segment.

The store clerk from the George Owens segment.

Co-sign.

I may be in the minority on this one but Rae Ann Mossor's boyfriend.

Dan Killaby. He made a mistake and it ended up leading to his wife's murder...but he had no idea it would and never could have predicted that she would go to a bar and run into a paroled murderer. Yes, skipping their dinner and getting drunk with his brother/forgetting wasn't good, but the guy is human. He has to live with it for the rest of his life that this mistake led to Carolyn being murdered. I felt really bad for him.

Dan Killaby. He made a mistake and it ended up leading to his wife's murder...but he had no idea it would and never could have predicted that she would go to a bar and run into a paroled murderer. Yes, skipping their dinner and getting drunk with his brother/forgetting wasn't good, but the guy is human. He has to live with it for the rest of his life that this mistake led to Carolyn being murdered. I felt really bad for him.

I was going to say him too but I forgot his name. I also felt bad for the guy, and couldn't believe people were actually blaming him for his wife's murder.

Ben Markowitz (Nick's older half-brother). He got some bad rap only because of his connection to Jesse James Hollywood; some blame him for what happened to Nick.

Ben had absolutely no way of knowing JJH would respond the way he did; nor did he bring him on to kidnapping. Ben might have been troubled, fallen in and with the wrong crowd but in his UM interview he seemed to feel guilty. Plus, he was someone who stood up to JJH; unlike many of his co-dealers. Perhaps Ben was trying to bring JJH down because he knew his trouble was getting out of control. Besides, why would someone commit murder over $1,200 in drug money on a victim who had absolutely nothing to do with the whole fiasco?

Now, I still think Dan Killaby pulled a real no-class move by standing his wife up the way he did for sure and I'll never respect that, but he certainly isn't responsible for her death in any shape, form, or fashion.

The store clerk from the George Owens segment.



What do people say about her

Ben Markowitz (Nick's older half-brother). He got some bad rap only because of his connection to Jesse James Hollywood; some blame him for what happened to Nick.

Ben had absolutely no way of knowing JJH would respond the way he did; nor did he bring him on to kidnapping. Ben might have been troubled, fallen in and with the wrong crowd but in his UM interview he seemed to feel guilty. Plus, he was someone who stood up to JJH; unlike many of his co-dealers. Perhaps Ben was trying to bring JJH down because he knew his trouble was getting out of control. Besides, why would someone commit murder over $1,200 in drug money on a victim who had absolutely nothing to do with the whole fiasco?

I'm going to have to disagree, I couldn't bring myself to like Ben Markowitz. He got involved in a big-time illegal operation and failed to understand the consequences of that. (Mistake #1). He incurred a debt with Hollywood who was known to have a violent temper. (Mistake #2). He ruffles his feathers. (Mistake #3). And it's pretty common knowledge that they'll go after family members as a warning. If Hollywood killed Ben instead, then he would have stood little chance at collecting his debt. Look what happened with Mollie Jordan's grandchildren. Only one was dealing drugs, and they killed 5 of them and intended to kill the 6th. The 6th survived, but was badly injured.

My point is, once a person gets involved in that type of operation, they have to expect the worst. And Ben didn't.

I didn't think Ben Markowitz came across very well in his interview either. It was filmed, I believe, around two years after Nick's murder, so the wounds and shock over such a tragic thing happening had to be pretty fresh for the family and friends. Ben showed no emotion despite the fact everything bad that happened was tied back to him. At one point, when describing how non-threatening he thought JJH was, he even laughs to himself when he says he was just a little guy so I didn't take him seriously. It really struck me how nonchalant he seemed. For GOD's sake. Your brother was killed because of you.

His interview felt like he was relating a story of something he saw on TV, not of something tragic that happened to his family.

Am I wrong in the assumption that JJH and his crew were actually AFRAID of Ben? It's been a long time, but I feel like there was some information out there that suggested Ben was a pretty scary dude and Hollywood was scared of him, which is why he attempted to collect the debt via Nick.

I understand everyone's non-sympathy, but I feel the need to point out that Nick didn't die because of Ben's actions. Nick died because Ryan Hoyt murdered him.

I understand everyone's non-sympathy, but I feel the need to point out that Nick didn't die because of Ben's actions. Nick died because Ryan Hoyt murdered him.

I beg to differ. Ben wasn't directly involved, that is, he didn't pull the trigger himself. But in addition to what I said in the above post, Ben also broke one of the windows in Hollywood's house, then went into hiding. Unless Ben is the stupidest person on Earth, he would have known that Hollywood was going to retaliate (especially when you pair that with the $1,200 drug debt) and since Ben went into hiding, he should have figured that his family were potential targets. I feel that Ben threw Nick to the wolves, so to speak, and I feel really bad that Nick paid the ultimate price because his brother was a loser in life.

Nick was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Hollywood and his cronies had no previous intention of going after him, but because they couldn't find Ben and they stumbled upon Nick, they went after him. It was a crime of opportunity. I don't recall if Hollywood was afraid of Ben (it's possible, being that Hollywood was 5'5 and not the biggest guy around), but when he's with his gang, Ben would have been clearly outnumbered. And Ben was (supposedly anyway) trying to rehabilitate himself at that point, so physically assaulting someone probably wouldn't have been wise for him to do.

Am I wrong in the assumption that JJH and his crew were actually AFRAID of Ben? It's been a long time, but I feel like there was some information out there that suggested Ben was a pretty scary dude and Hollywood was scared of him, which is why he attempted to collect the debt via Nick.

I understand everyone's non-sympathy, but I feel the need to point out that Nick didn't die because of Ben's actions. Nick died because Ryan Hoyt murdered him.

JJH thought of himself as a tough guy. Just listen to the way he's talking to people in those home movies. But there's no way he and his crew were afraid of Ben. The day they kidnapped Nick, they were originally going to confront Ben and use violence on him if he didn't pay Hollywood the money he owed him. Why would they do that if they were afraid of him?

I don't know for sure but I've never heard any reports that Ben was considered a scary dude. And during the movie 'Alpha Dog,' I couldn't help but roll my eyes at the scene where the guy playing Ben single-handedly beat up five guys that jumped him at once. I highly doubt the real Ben was ever that much of a bad ass. A small time criminal, a tough guy, maybe. But a truly scary dude? I highly doubt it.

And Nick died, not just because Ryan Hoyt pulled the trigger. He died because JJH told Hoyt to kill him since Hollywood was too stupid to know that kidnapping someone can land you in jail for the rest of your life. And the whole tragic scenario was all set in motion because of Ben's carelessness. He was indirectly involved in the murder of his brother and that would destroy most people but Ben's interview never left me the impression that he felt much guilt.

He was indirectly involved in the murder of his brother and that would destroy most people but Ben's interview never left me the impression that he felt much guilt.

Yeah, I will absolutely concede that Ben's interview did not go well. That's for sure.

I couldn't stand anyone in the JJH segment, save for the parents of Nick.

Two words: Bob. Bean.

I agree with that to some extent. He might have been smug about Sammy Wheeler being gone only because he cared for his children a little too much. I'm not saying Wheeler deserved to die, but the segment did not provide us with any insight as to what kind of person he was. Maybe the reason Bob Bean went far enough to get a court order to bar him from having contact with his children was because he was afraid they would be negatively influenced by him. We don't know if Wheeler was a gangbanger, drunk, or some other kind of outcast like that. I'm not so sure a court would grant them Bob's request without some sort of rationale or good reason; it doesn't make realistic sense for him to just walk into a courtroom, and tell the judge, "hey, I don't like this guy, can you order him not to be near my kids?". Maybe Sammy had a criminal record or something that would give Bob a good case for the court order.

I agree with that to some extent. He might have been smug about Sammy Wheeler being gone only because he cared for his children a little too much. I'm not saying Wheeler deserved to die, but the segment did not provide us with any insight as to what kind of person he was. Maybe the reason Bob Bean went far enough to get a court order to bar him from having contact with his children was because he was afraid they would be negatively influenced by him. We don't know if Wheeler was a gangbanger, drunk, or some other kind of outcast like that. I'm not so sure a court would grant them Bob's request without some sort of rationale or good reason; it doesn't make realistic sense for him to just walk into a courtroom, and tell the judge, "hey, I don't like this guy, can you order him not to be near my kids?". Maybe Sammy had a criminal record or something that would give Bob a good case for the court order.

The guy recorded his kids giving leading statements about Sammy and their mother. Why any father would do that to his children is beyond me. Then he also had another one of his children show up at the Wheeler residence to take pictures in the early morning hours. The guy is a @$$hole.

Pamela June Ray. She got raked through the coals in the thread about her case. There was speculation that she was a drug addict and a bad mother, all speculative nonsense that had no evidence whatsoever.

Now this one sticks in my craw.

I realize there are strong feelings on this one, but I never, ever thought Olivia Castaneda deserved all the guff she got for leaving baby Jacqueline outside that port-a-john. Perhaps it wasn't the best decision she could have made, but she had a toddler needing help in the restroom and there simply isn't much room in those things at all. Not the least worry is the utterly disgusting conditions. I don't know how much time some saying she's a bad mother have spent in portable toilets, but I could see why someone wouldn't want to place their daughter right atop a puddle of someone's urine or discarded sanitary items, personally.

There is no doubt in my mind Olivia loved her daughter and seemed like a caring mother. She just made an immensely unfortunate mistake. It doesn't make her a bad parent.

I think this has been posted in this thread before, but I'd definitely like to reiterate the Wackers.

Now this one sticks in my craw.

I realize there are strong feelings on this one, but I never, ever thought Olivia Castaneda deserved all the guff she got for leaving baby Jacqueline outside that port-a-john. Perhaps it wasn't the best decision she could have made, but she had a toddler needing help in the restroom and there simply isn't much room in those things at all. Not the least worry is the utterly disgusting conditions. I don't know how much time some saying she's a bad mother have spent in portable toilets, but I could see why someone wouldn't want to place their daughter right atop a puddle of someone's urine or discarded sanitary items, personally.

There is no doubt in my mind Olivia loved her daughter and seemed like a caring mother. She just made an immensely unfortunate mistake. It doesn't make her a bad parent.
I agree. She made an excellent point that her toddler could have walked away if she had taken just the baby inside. It was a mistake, but it doesn't make her a bad parent or person, as some comments on this forum and the forbidden site have expressed. She really was only in the restroom for a minute and thought it would be fine-- unfortunately, it wasn't. I hope that one day she'll learn what happened to her daughter and that Jacqueline will be found alive and well.

I don't think I've ever commented on the Jacqueline Castaneda case before and there doesn't seem to be that much discussion on it (I think it was a quickie profile at the end of the Morgan Nick segment).

I will say that flea markets tend to attract some...uh...rather unsavory characters, and can be VERY busy. I've never been to a flea market, but went to a somewhat similar outdoor festival. There were people EVERYWHERE and it was a challenge just to wade through the mass amounts of human beings. With all that in mind, I think a flea market would be one of the LAST places I would leave a defenseless child unattended. Just sayin'.

This happened at a flea market right? I was thinking carnival, but CP says flea market. I've seen other posters say it was a swap meet and an auction, so it would be nice to have some clarity on this.

This happened at a flea market right? I was thinking carnival, but CP says flea market. I've seen other posters say it was a swap meet and an auction, so it would be nice to have some clarity on this.
It was a swap meet. I distinctly remember RS saying it (I just watched the segment again a couple of days ago). UM wiki, though not always accurate, concurs.

http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Jacqueline_Castaneda

I realize there are strong feelings on this one, but I never, ever thought Olivia Castaneda deserved all the guff she got for leaving baby Jacqueline outside that port-a-john. Perhaps it wasn't the best decision she could have made, but she had a toddler needing help in the restroom and there simply isn't much room in those things at all. Not the least worry is the utterly disgusting conditions. I don't know how much time some saying she's a bad mother have spent in portable toilets, but I could see why someone wouldn't want to place their daughter right atop a puddle of someone's urine or discarded sanitary items, personally.

I agree as well. When a parent of a missing child makes a mistake like this, I do not believe in continually criticizing them for their decision. It would be one thing if she left her baby alone to go buy drugs or something, but she simply made a bad spur-of-the-moment decision that she clearly felt horrible about. In most cases like this, nothing bad would have happened, but it was her terrible luck that a woman seemed to be scouting the place for a child to abduct that day.

But, yeah, Internet comments about the parents of victimized children can be pretty nasty sometimes. I remember watching "Adam", the made-for-TV movie about the abduction of Adam Walsh, on the forbidden site, and there were tons of horrible comments criticizing Reve Walsh for letting her son wander around the department store alone.

I agree as well. When a parent of a missing child makes a mistake like this, I do not believe in continually criticizing them for their decision. It would be one thing if she left her baby alone to go buy drugs or something, but she simply made a bad spur-of-the-moment decision that she clearly felt horrible about. In most cases like this, nothing bad would have happened, but it was her terrible luck that a woman seemed to be scouting the place for a child to abduct that day.

But, yeah, Internet comments about the parents of victimized children can be pretty nasty sometimes. I remember watching "Adam", the made-for-TV movie about the abduction of Adam Walsh, on the forbidden site, and there were tons of horrible comments criticizing Reve Walsh for letting her son wander around the department store alone.

Does anyone know why she isnt on the Charley Project? I searched for her name but nothing came up

Does anyone know why she isnt on the Charley Project? I searched for her name but nothing came up

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/v/vasquez_jacqueline.html

Interestingly, there are a couple composite sketches there that weren't on the segment. I wonder why UM didn't air the sketches.

But, yeah, Internet comments about the parents of victimized children can be pretty nasty sometimes. I remember watching "Adam", the made-for-TV movie about the abduction of Adam Walsh, on the forbidden site, and there were tons of horrible comments criticizing Reve Walsh for letting her son wander around the department store alone.

That place is a cesspool for trolls.

They have things mixed up. Reve didn't let Adam wander around Sears, she left him in the toy department (specifically the video game section). Obviously, she should have kept a better eye on him, but she did make attempts to watch him and was only a few aisles away. Unforunately, a lot of things went wrong. Reve had trouble finding the pair of lamps John wanted (they were out of stock, so she took a rain check). The IDIOT, underage, newly hired security guard evicted Adam, who was only 6 and wasn't even among the kids fighting. And things continued to go downhill from there.

I bet those trolls condemning Adam Walsh's mother weren't even around in the 70s and 80s to know how different those times were. They're judging behaviors that were acceptable over 30 years ago by current standards.

Our 21st century reality is a whole lot different than back in 1981, when Adam was abducted. It was not unusual for parents to allow kids to stay in the toy section of the store alone for a few minutes. Parents left their kids in the car in a parking lot while they ran into a convenience store, the bank, to pay for gas, etc. Kids were allowed to ride their bikes to their friends houses several blocks away or up to the corner store without parental supervision. Remember when parents told kids to "come home when the street lights come on"?

It wasn't considered irresponsible or bad parenting in those days.

Yep, a lot of those trolls certainly don't realize that it was a completely different world 30 years ago and that, unfortunately, the reason people now know to be more careful about watching their kids in public is BECAUSE of cases like Adam Walsh. In 1981, people just didn't have the same frame of reference about the bad things that could happen.

I should also point out that arcades/video games were a relatively new phenomenon (for lack of a better term) in the early 80's. I don't know about elsewhere, but my local arcade was known to be somewhere you wouldn't leave your young children. I think a lot of it has to do with the older kids getting in fights fairly frequently, and the lighting being poor. I'm sure Reve and many others were unaware of this at the time.

I remember watching an old game show (I think it was What's My Line?) from the 70's with Rod Serling trying out the brand new Pong. Richard Dawson was so fascinated by it, he conversed with Rod as the credits were rolling.

Who are some of the "wanted" suspects featured that have been defended on here. I recall someone coming the the defense of Randall utterback saying he got featured wrongly abusive by UM.

Yep, a lot of those trolls certainly don't realize that it was a completely different world 30 years ago and that, unfortunately, the reason people now know to be more careful about watching their kids in public is BECAUSE of cases like Adam Walsh. In 1981, people just didn't have the same frame of reference about the bad things that could happen.
Yes it was very different then. Right around the time I started watching UM I realized times were changing a lot especially in urban areas. But I still did a lot on my own as a kid that I would not let my kids do now.

At one point I was harsh on Adam Hechts mom and the UM seg paints her as snobby, but she was very wealthy and at the end of the day she lost her son. I probably should of been more understanding of her situation.

Why do the trolls seem to only come out in the Wacker thread and the Angela Hammond thread?

Why do the trolls seem to only come out in the Wacker thread and the Angela Hammond thread?

They're 2 of the biggest threads on here, so that's probably one of the reasons.

And they come out elsewhere too. Not sure I'll forget the "Sharon Stevens looks like a horse" troll anytime soon.

They're 2 of the biggest threads on here, so that's probably one of the reasons.

And they come out elsewhere too. Not sure I'll forget the "Sharon Stevens looks like a horse" troll anytime soon.

Wasn't that the same guy who made a bunch of remarks about Gordon Page Jr., too? What a freak.

Wasn't that the same guy who made a bunch of remarks about Gordon Page Jr., too? What a freak.

yes. He would make a thread called "Update on Gordon Page Jr." and when you would click on it, it would say "actually, there are no new updates."

why he would pick on 2 completely innocent people is beyond me.

I also think Joe Wampler from the Eric Tamiyasu segment gets a lot of undeserved flack on here. I don't think he had anything to do with Eric's murder, and I also think his reasoning for having Eric's bed burned makes sense.

Yeah I don't think any of the three suspects featured killed eric.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/v/vasquez_jacqueline.html

Interestingly, there are a couple composite sketches there that weren't on the segment. I wonder why UM didn't air the sketches.

Thank you! I was looking for her under the last name Castaneda.

Yep, a lot of those trolls certainly don't realize that it was a completely different world 30 years ago and that, unfortunately, the reason people now know to be more careful about watching their kids in public is BECAUSE of cases like Adam Walsh. In 1981, people just didn't have the same frame of reference about the bad things that could happen.

Not to go too far O/T, but I actually have John's book Tears of Rage from 1998 where he and his wife talk in detail about everything surrounding Adam's disappearance and kidnapping. It's very tragic and some parts are tough to read, but it's interesting too.

One major thing he pointed out is that local police departments (even in big cities - i.e. they lived near Miami then) didn't communicate with each other, so many local things such as kidnappings, went under the radar screen. Once Adam's case made national headlines, he met and talked with many parents of other kidnapped kids (i.e. 70s, very early 80s) who never got any coverage and were still seeking closure. This (and later on in the 80s, shows like UM) of course was what changed the way everyone looked at these things forever.

Point being, there was just as much crime and as many psychos doing horrible things back in the lily white, victorian paradise days of 1981. It simply went unreported (until there were good people like John & Reve Walsh making a difference) and only a select few probably even made the local news, much less anything past it...so it just gives the illusion that it was a better time, but no, it really wasn't. The cops were privy to things most average joes never are, something John also pointed out.

Everyone has a tendency to rose color the past (myself included at times), but it's usually wrapped in generational bias more than hard truth.

I recorded the Biography episode on John Walsh some time back.

What I remember is that John was in New York City (I think doing Good Morning, America or one of those type shows) when he got the news that Adam's skull had been found. He trashed the hotel room. He entered such a deep depression shortly afterwards that when he found his life in jeopardy during a water sports activity (I think it was parasailing) he made no effort to prevent himself from drowning. Another guy got him out of the water.

P.S. Anyone see the new commercial he is in? It's pretty bad-ass. He goes bungee jumping.

I recorded the Biography episode on John Walsh some time back.

What I remember is that John was in New York City (I think doing Good Morning, America or one of those type shows) when he got the news that Adam's skull had been found. He trashed the hotel room. He entered such a deep depression shortly afterwards that when he found his life in jeopardy during a water sports activity (I think it was parasailing) he made no effort to prevent himself from drowning. Another guy got him out of the water.

P.S. Anyone see the new commercial he is in? It's pretty bad-ass. He goes bungee jumping.

Yeah, that was horrible and it really helps to understand how he must've been feeling at the time. :( It was 2 weeks later when he had just managed to get a spot on national TV and found out that very same day. I haven't read the book in awhile, but that buddy of his that rescued him seemed like a wonderful man too, he was definitely a factor in John & his wife being able to survive in the immediate months after Adam's murder imo.

I'll never understand all the crap Bob Bean gets on here. Heck, another man was found to be the murderer and there are STILL people on here that think he was involved. He clearly wasn't.

And no, he didn't hire a hit man. Seeing as he went on national television wearing a K-Mart shirt, he obviously couldn't afford one.

Bob Bean was just smarmy in his interview, I think that turned a lot of people off. But I do not think he had anything at all to do with Sammy Wheeler's murder.

Boy, the people that mentioned Charles Holden weren't kidding. The guy gets brutalized, not just on here but IRL. Poor guy. Geez, even after Gilbert Cannon confessed and his DNA and fingerprints matched those at the crime scene, and even after the witnesses came forward that corroborated Holden's version of events there are still people that think he was involved somehow. Gosh, what more do they want, videotape evidence?

That being said, there are a couple nagging questions I have. I don't think Charles is guilty, but after just re-viewing the UM segment and watching the Forensic Files episode, a couple things just seem weird:

-Gilbert wants to be taken to another city. Charles takes him a few miles, and not only does it seem like it's not anywhere close to his desired destination, Charles appears to leave him out in the middle of nowhere. I know that Gilbert was on drugs and had a criminal background to begin with, but that seems a tad foolish on Charles's part. I'm not sure how driving someone a few miles and leaving them out in the boonies constitutes as help, but maybe in his mind he was doing someone a favor. I think that Charles thought he was doing good, but I can sort of understand why Gilbert wouldn't want to be left there. I think that's when things started to go downhill. And I do understand why Charles wanted to get away from him, but lying to him and saying he would take him whereever he wanted to go and then bolting obviously enraged him further. If I had loved ones nearby, I'm not sure I would do that. You have to wonder if Charles just drove him perhaps Dorothy's murder could have been prevented.

-Charles stated that Dorothy would always wait until he got home until she turned in for the evening. Yet, Dorothy was asleep and the lights were off but Charles hadn't returned yet. Perhaps it was just very unfortunate timing that Dorothy retired early this one evening (Cannon said he walked by houses until he saw one with the lights off and picked that as he wanted to find a place to sleep.) Just a weird afterthought I had.

All in all, I think Charles made some unfortunate bad errors in judgment and he doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the shed. But I don't think he was involved in any way, shape or form. I think he was trying to help someone in need but was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

But I don't think he was involved in any way, shape or form. I think he was trying to help someone in need but was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Me too. I always felt really bad for Charles Holden. The only person responsible for Dorothy Donovan's death is Gilbert Cannon.

I thought Charles Holden told Gilbert Cannon that he was only going to drive him a short way, since he was headed home. Only when he told the guy that this was the end of line did he become agitated. The only thing Holden did wrong was pick up a psychopath and give him a lift.

A couple of my recent posts had me thinking about this thread again.

Sue Johnson ~ I've seen a couple of negative comments about her from one poster, including one about her "1/4 smirk" but I don't think she did anything that was irritating. And it's very common for relatives of murdered people to smile during the interviews. Saw one just yesterday as a matter of fact. I thought she was really admirable that she pushed and got Scott's case re-opened even after all the defeats she suffered.

Blair Adam's mom ~ I've seen a few negative posts about her for her enunciation of "And to this day, I don't know what 'it' is", and saw somebody on another forum refer to her as a "muppet". She did nothing that bothered me however.

I apologize of these have been said but...

Bill and Dorothy Wacker.

Nancy Drake Marshall.

Wayne Hecker (Tara Breckenridge's boyfriend). He might have had his troubles with the law, but that doesn't automatically make him responsible for whatever happened to Tara. His demeanor doesn't come off as anything like SOBs who are blatantly guilty (ie Mark Nichols), and there wasn't even any hard evidence he was involved in foul play. There is also a chance he knows who did it, but he might not be aware of it.

I apologize of these have been said but...

Bill and Dorothy Wacker.

Nancy Drake Marshall.

Ditto for these.

I personally believe the Wackers so-called harassment is one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetuated on the American people, along with "global warming."

I personally believe the Wackers so-called harassment is one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetuated on the American people, along with "global warming."

Yeah, those re-enactments sure were convincing.

Yeah, those re-enactments sure were convincing.

:lol:

What a good idea for a thread OP! Now that I think about it, there are a few people that got the short end of the UM stick IMO.

First and foremost on my list would have to be Dale Kerstetter. While his case always appeared to be a subject of intensive debate on this board, I personally never saw anything on the UM segment that incriminated him IMO. Many of my fellow posters may disagree, but every time I watch the security footage as recreated by UM, I see a masked individual pointing some type of weapon at Kerstetter's back. Though it could be my imagination, I can't help what I believe.

I also feel that Gordon Page's parents get a bad rap sometimes. I firmly believe that Mr. and Mrs. Page were acting in what they believed to be the best interest of their son when they checked him into the facility he later disappeared from.

The last case that comes to mind is that of Amy Bechtel. Despite the intense suspicion her husband has been under at times, I've never believed he had a hand in Amy's disappearance. Just my personal opinion.

I also feel that Gordon Page's parents get a bad rap sometimes. I firmly believe that Mr. and Mrs. Page were acting in what they believed to be the best interest of their son when they checked him into the facility he later disappeared from.

+1

The last case that comes to mind is that of Amy Bechtel. Despite the intense suspicion her husband has been under at times, I've never believed he had a hand in Amy's disappearance. Just my personal opinion.

Also agree. He could easily qualify for one of the least guilty spouses of UM, IMO.

+1



Also agree. He could easily qualify for one of the least guilty spouses of UM, IMO.


A few years ago my mom left the house to visit her own mother for a few hours. My grandmother called later to let me know that Mom was on her way back home. What she failed to tell me was that my mom had other plans that afternoon and thanks to that misunderstanding between the three of us, I started to worry when she wasn't home an hour later. To make a long story short, after several hours passed and I wasn't able to reach my mom, I became panic stricken. I thought she was missing and because she's disabled with declining health, my imagination ran away with me. My poor dad had his hands full that day dealing with my near hysteria, lol. I even called our local non-emergency hotline, and they were kind enough to check my mom's license plate info against the recent accident/incident reports. Thankfully my mom eventually made it home safely, at which point the misunderstanding was resolved.
Because of this experience, I now try to be a lot more open minded with regards to how people behave when they believe a loved one is missing. It definitely made me view the Amy Bechtel segment, among others, through a different lens.

Cynthia Anderson's Dad gets a bum rap.

Cynthia Anderson's Dad gets a bum rap.

so does Adam Hecht's friend Tony.

so does Adam Hecht's friend Tony.

I disagree with this on several different levels.

Tim McClure wait for it......just kidding. :D

I disagree with this on several different levels.
Yeah at first I sympathized with him because of the way UM portrayed the situation but it seems like he could have provided more info than what he did or at least told his side of the story.

Tim McClure wait for it......just kidding. :D

I was legitimately waiting for someone to say Jeff MacDonald or some other individual with a 40-page thread devoted to them. :lol:

I disagree with this on several different levels.

"bum rap" .. Tony ... get it ... ah forget it, geez.

She hasn't received an overwhelmingly bad rap here but I do recall a few eye rolls over Tammy Papler being the "Madam with a heart."

I thought she was incredibly brave. She publicly called out an obvious corrupt police officer, police force and an even more obvious killer. She stood before the city council and made a public stink over the police not getting off their asses and doing any investigation because the victims were two prostitutes and not the mayor's daughter. She said she felt partly responsible for their deaths and she wanted justice for them and for the town to be cleaned up of all the corruption.

Would Carter even be in jail now if it weren't for her accusations?

http://cdn-static.wildabouttrial.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Leslie-Duncan-Edward-Carter-Mugshots.jpg

so does Adam Hecht's friend Tony.

This made me spit my coffee out, well played sir.

She hasn't received an overwhelmingly bad rap here but I do recall a few eye rolls over Tammy Papler being the "Madam with a heart."

I thought she was incredibly brave. She publicly called out an obvious corrupt police officer, police force and an even more obvious killer. She stood before the city council and made a public stink over the police not getting off their asses and doing any investigation because the victims were two prostitutes and not the mayor's daughter. She said she felt partly responsible for their deaths and she wanted justice for them and for the town to be cleaned up of all the corruption.

Would Carter even be in jail now if it weren't for her accusations?

http://cdn-static.wildabouttrial.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Leslie-Duncan-Edward-Carter-Mugshots.jpg yes I think you are correct. I think the police there thought they'd get away with this and that Tammy would stay in the background. But she stood her ground and did the right thing. I commend her for that. And it was a small town where everyone knew her so it took a lot of courage on her part.

+1



Also agree. He could easily qualify for one of the least guilty spouses of UM, IMO.
Agree 100%.



I was legitimately waiting for someone to say Jeff MacDonald or some other individual with a 40-page thread devoted to them.

Even if I believed him innocent, there would be few kind things I could say about that man. :lol: My mother had a doctor who worked with MacDonald some point after the murders. Said he seemed like a really nice guy. But I think that was a mask for sure.

Looking back on it......Diane Strom. I dismissed her as a cold bitch, but now I am starting to think that she had quite a lot on her plate. First Jenny's accident, then all the medical bills, and reporter after reporter wanting to do stories on her. It really wares you down. I hope that where ever she is, she is doing fine and Jenny as well.