In some respects I can see Linda Lavin's point of view in that the show's title was Alice. Alice was supposed to be the center of the show but sometimes things do not work out the why we expect. Flo became a breakout character something no one expected and more popular. So I suspect Lavin probably did pressure the producers to decide between them. I feel bad for Polly Holiday because she was stuck between a rock and hard place. She was extremely popular which caused anger on part of Lavin. However, if some reports about the backstage fury on the part of Lavin are true then it's Lavin's problems.

I am really going to go out a limb, but this is how I honestly feel:

I love Lavin. Her acting is wonderful, and I loved ALICE. Yet, I truly feel that at the end of Season Four, they could have written Alice Hyatt out of the show as having found a singing job. They could have changed the name of the series to MEL'S DINER and added another waitress, and the show would have continued to thrive.

I am really going to go out a limb, but this is how I honestly feel:

I love Lavin. Her acting is wonderful, and I loved ALICE. Yet, I truly feel that at the end of Season Four, they could have written Alice Hyatt out of the show as having found a singing job. They could have changed the name of the series to MEL'S DINER and added another waitress, and the show would have continued to thrive.
I agree completely, and I think the show should have always been called "Mel's Diner" from the very beginning.

I am really going to go out a limb, but this is how I honestly feel:

I love Lavin. Her acting is wonderful, and I loved ALICE. Yet, I truly feel that at the end of Season Four, they could have written Alice Hyatt out of the show as having found a singing job. They could have changed the name of the series to MEL'S DINER and added another waitress, and the show would have continued to thrive.

Probably because she was overshadowed by Mel and Flo and sometimes Vera

Probably because she was overshadowed by Mel and Flo and sometimes Vera
Mel always seemed like the star of the show to me. I still wonder why the show wasn't called Mel's Diner from the beginning.

Mel always seemed like the star of the show to me. I still wonder why the show wasn't called Mel's Diner from the beginning.



Yup everything revolved around him

Personally Lavin's personality in the Character could be a turn off at times which is why she could not compete with FLO. She apparently bullied Holiday off the show and had all references of her removed such as the credits. Yet, Lavin ran into a brick wall with Vic Tayback because I am sure he did not put with her behavior. I suspect he may have even put her in her place a couple of times.

I suspect he may have even put her in her place a couple of times.

Stow It, Linda!

You know...it sucks. I was upset for a good long while when I learned the truth. There is something in us that wants to believe that everyone enjoyed each other and got along. Just like folks did on the MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW...but hey, even Ed and Ted had a big falling out over politics for awhile! It is what it is. I'm sure Polly was very hurt. But the lady has class. She could have spoken out loudly, but she never did. She just moved on. We all have to make our peace with such things or it spoils appreciating what good there is. Linda may have changed a lot. Let's hope so, for her sake.

I am really going to go out a limb, but this is how I honestly feel:

I love Lavin. Her acting is wonderful, and I loved ALICE. Yet, I truly feel that at the end of Season Four, they could have written Alice Hyatt out of the show as having found a singing job. They could have changed the name of the series to MEL'S DINER and added another waitress, and the show would have continued to thrive.
This is EXACTLY how I feel. I always thought the show should've been called "Mel's Diner" anyway.

I've been watching Alice Seasons 1-4, and I've never seen any tension between the actresses. They both were always professional.

I've been watching Alice Seasons 1-4, and I've never seen any tension between the actresses. They both were always professional.


I think it was in the season during Flo's departure

Mel always seemed like the star of the show to me. I still wonder why the show wasn't called Mel's Diner from the beginning.

I'm surprised that there were only 4 total employees for the whole diner. I'd think there would be more waitresses to work other shifts, as well as cooks & busboys/dishwashers, and maybe cashiers too. Mel apparently had to do all the cooking & cleaning, aside from whatever cleaning his waitresses did.

I'm surprised that there were only 4 total employees for the whole diner. I'd think there would be more waitresses to work other shifts, as well as cooks & busboys/dishwashers, and maybe cashiers too. Mel apparently had to do all the cooking & cleaning, aside from whatever cleaning his waitresses did.


Restaurants, like Banks and other businesses, often have janitorial crews to come in and do much of the cleaning. Still, look how tiny the diner is! Doesn't take too much effort to keep a place that small clean. I speak from experience. I have worked in MUCH bigger houses where you bus your own tables, cash out your own customers and do quite a bit of opening, running and closing side-work. Annnnd, well...it IS a tv show. ;)

I've been watching Alice Seasons 1-4, and I've never seen any tension between the actresses. They both were always professional.

Check Lavin's performance in the final episode with Flo. You can see an element of gloating as she heads back into the diner. There is some real subliminal, just below the surface stuff visible.

I think Solomon is correct in that the tension is mostly visible in the fourth season, and it's all from Lavin. She's a fantastic actor, but she couldn't quite conceal it. With Polly, you'd never know. She kept mum about the whole thing. The ONLY thing I have ever seen that is attributed to her that could be construed as acknowledging the situation, was a statement years later. She was quoted as saying (something like):Why revisit anything unpleasant? It was all in the past. Perhaps the subtle, and I would think sincere, "Good luck" she bid Dianne Ladd.

Besides perhaps bit players, it makes sense that Vic was the only ALICE player to visit Flo's Yellow Rose. Tayback was his own man. I'm certain Beth would not have wanted to deal with the fallout. I'm certain a lot of people stuck up for Polly, and the right-minded actors were grateful to be on a hit show. To be a WORKING actor is the goal! To be a well-paid and steadily employed working actor, a rarity.

The trouble started long before then, and I believe, really started to come out in the second season.

In all honesty,

that diner was too small too have 3 waitresses LOL

In all honesty,

that diner was too small too have 3 waitresses LOL
Mel needed all three waitresses, because they also usually helped Mel with the food prep or cooking. Plenty of times I've seen one of the girls chopping vegetables or grilling up something on the stove.

Mel needed all three waitresses, because they also usually helped Mel with the food prep or cooking. Plenty of times I've seen one of the girls chopping vegetables or grilling up something on the stove.



Seemed like they were all serving, lol

One should have been behind the counter, one should have been serving, and the other should have been Laid off:lol: :lol: :lol:

If the stories about Linda Lavin are true, and she wanted to be the big star, she probably wanted better writing on the show. Imagine how she must feel now about being on the Sean Hayes sitcom on NBC. 'Alice' is Shakespeare compared to that mess!

In Flo's final episode, Alice acts way too happy she's leaving. As close as the two characters were over the years, you would think Alice would have been sad on some level to see her go.

A similar situation happened on 227. It was Marla Gibbs' show but Jackee Harry's character Sandra took off as the show's scene stealer. It also led to Jackee leaving for a spinoff pilot that didn't work out in 227's final season. Whatever the feud was then, in recent interviews Jackee says she and Marla have come full circle and are good friends today.

Yes this show was a continuation of the movie Alice doesn't live here anymore. The movie was a drama and the television show was a comedy. It ran for 9 seasons but really went downhill when Polly left.

You know...it sucks. I was upset for a good long while when I learned the truth. There is something in us that wants to believe that everyone enjoyed each other and got along. Just like folks did on the MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW...but hey, even Ed and Ted had a big falling out over politics for awhile! It is what it is. I'm sure Polly was very hurt. But the lady has class. She could have spoken out loudly, but she never did. She just moved on. We all have to make our peace with such things or it spoils appreciating what good there is. Linda may have changed a lot. Let's hope so, for her sake.


The cast of the Brady Bunch and (definitely) The Partridge Family and the cast of other TV shows did not get along.

I think the cast of The Munsters and The Addams Family got along.
I think that is rare.

I believe for the most part the Brady Bunch cast got along. Robert Reed was the biggest pain imaginable to the Schwartz family. Maureen McCormick wrote about Eve Plumb walking around nude and farting in the dressing room and Christopher Knight saying Barry Williams was an old soul. I do believe that all was peaceful for the most part. It seems like much tension took place on the Alice set however.

I always thought the show should've been called "Mel's Diner".

As did, and do, I. I guess they wanted to call it Alice because they assumed Alice would be the star, as with the film, and because the film utilized her name in the title, but I really wish the creators had had the foresight to visualize it as an ensemble show and title it Mel's Diner. It's just a much better title anyway, it has more "flavor" to it (no pun intended, lol).



A similar situation happened on 227. It was Marla Gibbs' show but Jackee Harry's character Sandra took off as the show's scene stealer. It also led to Jackee leaving for a spinoff pilot that didn't work out in 227's final season. Whatever the feud was then, in recent interviews Jackee says she and Marla have come full circle and are good friends today.

Yes, I believe both Jackee and Marla even discuss this on one of the bonus features of the 227 season 1 DVD set. There are a couple of features of those two with Alaina Reed Hall, that are very nice to see.

Still sad that it's been almost 9 years since I seen this show and 25 before that:mad:

As did, and do, I. I guess they wanted to call it Alice because they assumed Alice would be the star, as with the film, and because the film utilized her name in the title, but I really wish the creators had had the foresight to visualize it as an ensemble show and title it Mel's Diner. It's just a much better title anyway, it has more "flavor" to it (no pun intended, lol).




Yes, I believe both Jackee and Marla even discuss this on one of the bonus features of the 227 season 1 DVD set. There are a couple of features of those two with Alaina Reed Hall, that are very nice to see.


This topic has been done to death. Lavin thought the show should revolve around her (a single struggling working mother) and that was the true intention of the show and Polly/Vera were supposed to be just in the background. Once Polly's character was given more lines and then her famous "kiss my grits" phrase it was inevitable that Flo would become a main part of the show. Lavin hated that, she hated that Flo took away from the true "meaning" of the sitcom. I don't know if Lavin thought it was HER show but she did believe the central theme was that of a struggling single mother. Everyone had high hopes for Flo (the series) and the studio felt Alice would last just another season (ratings plummet after Flo left) but it turned quite the opposite. Alice continued to do well and Flo never made it past the second season. On the set it was a constant struggle as Lavin often complained of Flo having too many lines. Polly resented her for that and who can blame her. The producers did not want to lose Flo as a character since she was very well liked so they talked Polly into doing a spinoff (something she really didn't want to do). I still do not like the series Flo. I think she deserved better. It could have been a brilliant series had it better actors and different scenario.

This topic has been done to death. Lavin thought the show should revolve around her (a single struggling working mother) and that was the true intention of the show and Polly/Vera were supposed to be just in the background. Once Polly's character was given more lines and then her famous "kiss my grits" phrase it was inevitable that Flo would become a main part of the show. Lavin hated that, she hated that Flo took away from the true "meaning" of the sitcom. I don't know if Lavin thought it was HER show but she did believe the central theme was that of a struggling single mother. Everyone had high hopes for Flo (the series) and the studio felt Alice would last just another season (ratings plummet after Flo left) but it turned quite the opposite. Alice continued to do well and Flo never made it past the second season. On the set it was a constant struggle as Lavin often complained of Flo having too many lines. Polly resented her for that and who can blame her. The producers did not want to lose Flo as a character since she was very well liked so they talked Polly into doing a spinoff (something she really didn't want to do). I still do not like the series Flo. I think she deserved better. It could have been a brilliant series had it better actors and different scenario.

It should have aired after Alice