Do you subscribe to a minority or alternate view on any case featured on UM? I have a few:

-Mike Riemer didn't kill Diana Robertson
-Larry Race didn't plan to kill his wife and it really was a boating accident
-Jule Caylor might not have been responsible for his wife's disappearance

What are yours?

Courtney Love had Kurt Cobain killed.
Tara Calico was NOT in those pictures. (everyone and their mom read VC Andrews then)
Adam Emery didn't jump.
Lizzie Borden gave no one any whacks.



Resurrection Mary was NOT the most annoying case. :)

Great topic Meg! Here are some of mine:

-Mike O'Mara committed suicide.
-Andre Jones committed suicide.
-Keith Warren's death was an accident that was covered up by some pretty stupid kids.
-Tommy Zeigler is innocent and had nothing to do with the murders of his wife, in-laws, or Charlie Mays.
-Wayne Hecker is innocent and had no involvement in the disappearance of Tara Breckinridge.
-Paul Pollis actually has a strong case for his innocence in his wife's disappearance.
-The Allagash abductions were brought on by drug use and suggestive hypnosis.
-Tim McClure is most certainly innocent.
-Virtually all of the final appellants were guilty (with the exceptions being of course Zeigler, and those who were exonerated after their respective UM segments).

Do you subscribe to a minority or alternate view on any case featured on UM? I have a few:

-Mike Riemer didn't kill Diana Robertson
-Larry Race didn't plan to kill his wife and it really was a boating accident
-Jule Caylor might not have been responsible for his wife's disappearance

What are yours?
I would agree with all of these, even though for years I thought Mike was probably guilty.

Some of mine:

I think the Danny Williams case was a murder.
I think the guy in the Dick Hansen case was not a disgruntled fan (and his motives had nothing to do with the 49ers).
I like the Magic Rock segment. ;)

Courtney Love had Kurt Cobain killed.
Tara Calico was NOT in those pictures. (everyone and their mom read VC Andrews then)
Adam Emery didn't jump.
Lizzie Borden gave no one any whacks.



Resurrection Mary was NOT the most annoying case. :)


Disagree PROFOUNDLY about Courtney Love - to me, the Kurt Cobain segment is UM at its worst. He was clearly and undeniably suicidal in the months leading up to his death, there is nothing suspicious about the circumstances of his death, and Love had no motive to kill him (even if she wanted to end their marriage, which is entirely possible, she would have been entitled to a fat chunk of his present and future income under any divorce). UM are creating a "mystery" when there simply isn't one there.

Agree with you re: Calico (not sure we're in the minority on that one though). Kind of agree with you on Emery (although, its worth noting the FBI think he still may be alive). The evidence around Borden is too confused and distant in time to come up with a conclusion either way IMO.

My own one? Tim McClure may be innocent (I'm not sure what to make of that guy to be honest...might he be covering for someone else like his wife?) and I fimly believe Kurt Sova simply died of either alcohol poisoning or alcohol induced aphyxiation at the party, before the party hosts panicked and hid his body before dumping it.

I agree with all of Meg's, in fact, I've always felt that way about those cases. Well, I should say it was a few years ago when I moved into 50/50 territory on Jule.

Actually, Tim McClure being innocent seems to be the majority opinion on here. Don't really know why. :lol:

One area I know I've always been in the minority on is thinking Gale Delano was a disgusting wench for doing that. I wouldn't have held a lifetime grudge against her for committing suicide, but there were ways to do it that didn't involve throwing suspicion on innocent people. There were ways to do it that didn't involved making your family thinking you were being tied up and tortured and raped repeatedly or God knows what. There were ways to do it that didn't involve abandoning your kids. There were ways to do it that didn't involve a miracle being needed to even identify her body, and a ton of resources being wasted in order to do so.

I'm also in the Tim-McClure-Was-Involved camp. :)

Others for me:

-Tony Lombardi committed suicide
-Bobby Fuller's death was not a murder
-the Mike O'Mara and Ralph Probst cases might be related
-Bob Hall did not murder Kay
-Alejandro Espinoza was/is alive and for whatever reason chose not to take the reward

I've never been convinced that Bob Hall murdered Kay either. We're talking about a very short possible time frame here, I think he would have to get very, very lucky. Not to mention be incredibly stupid to murder his wife on the very same day she received a large inheritance.

I've never been convinced that Bob Hall murdered Kay either. We're talking about a very short possible time frame here, I think he would have to get very, very lucky. Not to mention be incredibly stupid to murder his wife on the very same day she received a large inheritance.
I agree. I don't think he could have pulled it off in that time frame. Also, he would have had to have found her in the dark after she left the party AND he was pretty intoxicated at the time.

I think he took the plea deal just to avoid spending time in prison, not because he was actually guilty.

Disagree PROFOUNDLY about Courtney Love - to me, the Kurt Cobain segment is UM at its worst. He was clearly and undeniably suicidal in the months leading up to his death, there is nothing suspicious about the circumstances of his death, and Love had no motive to kill him (even if she wanted to end their marriage, which is entirely possible, she would have been entitled to a fat chunk of his present and future income under any divorce). UM are creating a "mystery" when there simply isn't one there.


Respectfully snipped by me

There's actually a fair amount of suspicious circumstances are the death of Kurt Cobain, including who used his missing credit card after his death, the subsequent death of El Duce who claims (and passed a polygraph) that Courtney tried to hire him to kill Kurt, the death of Kristen Pfaff, why Courtney hired a private detective but didn't tell him to check their house in Seattle, etc.

I could go on and on. I've always thought Courtney had him killed. For information, check out the book Who Killed Kurt Cobain. For a good laugh and perhaps the worst documentary ever made, check out Kurt and Courtney on Netflix. Bonus points if you drink every time they talk about Courtney's lawyers, but I'd only sip, not do a shot otherwise, you'll be able to ask Kurt himself after you've died of alcohol poisoning.

At the very least, Courtney is a sociopath whose own father has suspicions about her involvement

I don't believe Tara Calico is the girl in the mysterious photo, and I never believed Katherine Korzilius scrambled on to her mom's SUV and then fell off.

There was also the case (Tony Lombardi) where, if I remember correctly, the mom claimed she saw all this weird stuff in the house when her son died. I always thought she was just engaging in wishful thinking or remembering things incorrectly (mixing-up days, etc.)

I'm pretty Rob Shaffer is responsible for Angela Hammond's disappearance... and also the disappearances of the two convenience store women in the segment. And the disappearances of Tara Calico, Debra Poe and Tami Lynn Leppert. Oh, and I'm pretty sure he was the Blind River Rest Stop Killer too.

Okay, here are my real responses... ;)

Yeah, like others in this thread, I am also inclined to believe that Bob Hall and Wayne Hecker are innocent. Agree on Mike Riemer too, though I think more people now believe he's innocent since his skull was found. I also lean more towards Tim McClure's innocence, though this is mostly because of the D.A.'s decision to drop the murder charges against him with prejudice.

I don't know what it is, but I've never been 100 % comfortable with the idea of Don Sherman being responsible for his wife's death. He isn't very likeable, but some of the scenarios presented in the segment (leaving his wife's dead body on the couch when his daughter was in the house, retrieving her skull after he'd essentially gotten away with the crime) seem pretty far-fetched.

I think most people here believe that the Baldwin P.D. had nothing to do with Michael Rosenblum's death and only tried to cover up their screw-up with the car, but after reading some more outside articles about the case, I've changed my position and now believe he was murdered.

I don't think Tara Calico was in the pictures that were found. I think she was murdered within a short time of being abducted.

I think Amy Bradley fell overboard shortly after her father last saw her.

I think Katherine Korzillous death was a tragic freak accident involving her moms SUV.

Lastly, I think Tommy Zeigler is guilty.

Sometimes, the original, obvious theory is a true one even though it is quite easy to put a different armchair detective spin on the case.

-Virtually all of the final appellants were guilty (with the exceptions being of course Zeigler, and those who were exonerated after their respective UM segments).

What do you think about Dan Montecalvo? I haven't read Karen Kingsbury's book on the case yet (just ordered it), but at this point I think he may be innocent given Susan Brown's confession and some of the details of the shooting.

Paul Ferrell was guilty as hell. All totally creepy obscene phone calls aside, I do not for one second believe he just happened upon Cathy's vehicle on his property and was "too afraid" to call the police. :rolleyes:

I also agree that Wayne Hecker wasn't responsible for Tara Breckenridge's disappearance.

I do still think Paul Pollis might have something to do with Charlotte's disappearance, but probably not in the way her family alleges.

On Tara Calico, I had occasion some months back to see a news report on the anniversary of her disappearance, and included on it was a live video of Tara competing in what looked to be something like a Junior Miss competition. IMO, she looked nothing like the girl in that photograph.

I'm with what I think is the majority on Amy Bradley. I think the man she met has something to do with her disappearance, but I don't really buy that sold-into-slavery theory.

I also agree Resurrection Mary is not the most annoying segment. The Men in Black segment is.

I don't think Darlie Routier is 100% guilty of her children's murders but some recent info discussed in another thread here is news to me and is sorta making me think she might be partially responsible with Darin being the most guilty. Either way, I think the case was totally botched, from the investigation all the way through the trial.

Tommy Ziegler is innocent

Rae Ann Mosser's death wasn't a suicide

Kathy and Danny Freeman (Ashley Freeman and Lauria Bible) - feel like the local cops might be involved

Dick Hansen - Jean is somehow involved, not sure she actually did it herself, but she knows who did it or at least suspects who did it and isn't telling

UFOs are experimental gov't aircraft, and alien's don't exist no matter what that dude with the big hair says (Giorgio Tsoukalos)

Stuart Heaton is innocent of Krystal Nabb's murder and was framed with the more recent DNA test

Liz Carmichael is the most beautiful woman to ever wear size 13 heels. :D

Rae Ann Mosser's death wasn't a suicide

Ooo, totally forgot about this one. I concur.

Sam Patel didn't murder Joan Jeffries.










Just kidding.

Dick Hansen - I side with the whole drug scenario

Aliens - Top secret government aircraft, natural phenomenon, or demonic manifestations

Ghosts - Witchcraft and demons

Tammy Lynn Leppert - hard to tell if Timothy Rue did it, or if he's just some crazy guy with a strange, consuming obsession. His prevarication leads one to suspect.

Dale Kerstetter - I found the attitude of the employers to be somewhat callous, seeing as they may have witnessed the final moments of that man's life on video tape.

Oh. Yeah. I don't think Katherine fell off her mom's SUV either. I think some other accident happened.

I think Don Sherman was framed.

I don't think Dale Kerstetter ever left that factory. (As I've stated elsewhere)

Oh. And I think the guy who was calling Mrs Billigs killed Amy. The customs guy

I think Brad Bishop defected.

I think there's some confusion as to what is the majority/minority opinion on here. For example, regarding Rae Ann Mossor, homicide is definitely the majority opinion and I'm in the minority on that one.

I never believed Riemer was guilty. I still don't.

As with Jule Caylor, which I stated earlier, Paul Pollis and Wayne Hecker are cases which I moved from certain of guilt to 50/50. Hecker is kind of like Bob Hall, I think he would have had to find a needle in a haystack in a short timeframe. It's not easy to find a moving target.

@Necco: Are you perhaps getting Dale Kerstetter confused with Dave Bocks? Do you think Dale is still in the plant?

@Necco: Are you perhaps getting Dale Kerstetter confused with Dave Bocks? Do you think Dale is still in the plant?

Nope, I am not getting them confused, but thank you, I couldn't remember Dave Bocks' name. I think Dale suffered a similar fate. The furnace in Dave Bocks' case was kept at an even 1300 degrees. A cremator is 1600-1800 degrees. The working temp of pyrex (one of corning's main glass products) is over 2200 degrees (thus necessitating the platinum pipes, since the melting point of platinum is over 3200 degrees)

I think he was put in one of the kilns/furnaces.

(all temps given in F)

Nope, I am not getting them confused, but thank you, I couldn't remember Dave Bocks' name. I think Dale suffered a similar fate. The furnace in Dave Bocks' case was kept at an even 1300 degrees. A cremator is 1600-1800 degrees. The working temp of pyrex (one of corning's main glass products) is over 2200 degrees (thus necessitating the platinum pipes, since the melting point of platinum is over 3200 degrees)

I think he was put in one of the kilns/furnaces.

(all temps given in F)

ah, ok, sorry about that. I had never considered that before and it's an interesting angle.

ah, ok, sorry about that. I had never considered that before and it's an interesting angle.
I agree. Considering they didn't shut down the plant or look around certain areas until they said the robber in the video taking platinum, it's possible that this was done and no evidence of his body was found because of the high heat/time before searching.

Regarding the picutres, I don't think they look like Tara Calico and Michael Henley from the photographs we saw of them, but figured the may have gotten haircuts, that sort of thing. Well Calico at least, anyways.

I really don't know what to think. It seems like they would have been conclusively identified by now. The only thing I can think is that the kids in the photograph were abducted at a young age and that's why nobody has recognized them.

I remember someone theorising that the Original Night Stalker might have been a cop.

I tend to think this is pretty credible. The way he subdued his victims certainly suggests a police or military background, and his being a cop would certainly explain his near supernatural ability to remain highly active yet completely avoid extensive police detection efforts

What do you think about Dan Montecalvo? I haven't read Karen Kingsbury's book on the case yet (just ordered it), but at this point I think he may be innocent given Susan Brown's confession and some of the details of the shooting.

Paul Ferrell was guilty as hell. All totally creepy obscene phone calls aside, I do not for one second believe he just happened upon Cathy's vehicle on his property and was "too afraid" to call the police. :rolleyes:

I think Montecalvo was involved in the planning of his wife's death. I think he hired Susan Brown and another person to come in and shoot him and murder his wife. Mostly because a friend of his said Montecalvo had approached him about doing the same exact thing before. I don't think Susan Brown is lying, but I don't think she's telling the whole truth either. Although it's interesting that Charlie Anderson lived less than a mile away from Montecalvo. I'm 70/30 that Montecalvo was involved.

A lot of people on here believe Stuart Heaton is innocent. I think he's guilty as hell.

This is a good topic, although it's sometimes hard to parse what the "majority" opinion is.

The case that I've been the most controversial on is the Aeileen Conway segment (I still don't know how to spell her first name). I am totally convinced that the accident was an accident, perhaps precipitated by some kind of medical emergency (though I concede that part is only a best guess). No burglars, no staging, no murder.

I also differ on which segment was the worst/most annoying to people. Resurrection Mary is just another ghost story, neither better nor worse. The slave ghost segment, on the other hand, has very racist undertones, making it easily the worst the show ever did.

I also tend to believe that pretty much every suicide they profile as a possible murder was, in fact, a suicide, including Rae Anne Moeser. The only exception I can think of off hand is the guy who supposedly electrocuted himself in a hotel room. I have softened on this a bit, however, as I've come across at least one case (not on UM) where a guy did successfully disguise his wife's death as a suicide - and was only ever caught because he tried it a second time with his next wife.

Not that UM ever profiled the JFK assassintation (strange that they didn't, when you think about it, considering they did not one but TWO segments on his brother), but I am convinced Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and unaided in killing the President.

Not a UM case, but I'm not convinced that all the West Memphis 3 are innocent.

I believe Nyleen Kay Marshall was kidnapped from that family picnic. Many folks in the Nyleen thread a few years back said they thought she wandered off and died of exposure. But I refuse to believe a 4 year old could wander off so far away that a 3 week search party couldn't find her.

I don't know if the letter writer is the abductor but she definitely was kidnapped.

ah, ok, sorry about that. I had never considered that before and it's an interesting angle.

No need to be sorry. It's weird to think there might be two cases on UM involving cremation via industrial kilns. It was an easy assumption to make. :)

Also, I know not everyone has a mental notebook involving what melts cooler than what. :)

Not a UM case, but I'm not convinced that all the West Memphis 3 are innocent.

I am. There's nothing to link them to the crime, other than the bogus, factually incorrect "confession" of a suspect with a borderline intellectual impairment, and a nonsense theory about "satanic rituals"- which so many cops and prosecutors seemed to be obsessed with back in the early 90s, for some strange reason.

The case that I've been the most controversial on is the Aeileen Conway segment (I still don't know how to spell her first name). I am totally convinced that the accident was an accident, perhaps precipitated by some kind of medical emergency (though I concede that part is only a best guess). No burglars, no staging, no murder.

You don't think it's possible that she was the victim of a sexual predator?

Not that UM ever profiled the JFK assassintation (strange that they didn't, when you think about it, considering they did not one but TWO segments on his brother), but I am convinced Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and unaided in killing the President.

I agree 100%.

I am. There's nothing to link them to the crime, other than the bogus, factually incorrect "confession" of a suspect with a borderline intellectual impairment, and a nonsense theory about "satanic rituals"- which so many cops and prosecutors seemed to be obsessed with back in the early 90s, for some strange reason.

The trial was a gong show, no doubt. I don't buy the satanic stuff. I haven't read up on the case in some time, but when I did, and watching the movie, I kind of had a feeling of "not so fast".

I think Cindy James committed suicide and either deliberately stalked herself or was under the influence of an alternate personality. It does sound outlandish but I always think of the Ruth Finley (http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20099840,00.html) case when I think of Cindy James. And the creepy phone calls that were released later does sound like a woman trying to her disguise her voice.

-Darlie Routier killed her two boys
-Tommy Ziegler is innocent
-The Wackers didn't make it up
-Dick Hansen's death had nothing to do with a license plate
-Don Sherman probably didn't kill Linda
-Berkowitz is not the only shooter
-Cindy James didn't kill herself
-Neither did Tommy Burkett
-Mike Reimer is innocent and I never thought he was guilty
-Blair Adams was murdered for a personal reason

This is a good topic, although it's sometimes hard to parse what the "majority" opinion is.

I think there's some confusion as to what is the majority/minority opinion on here. For example, regarding Rae Ann Mossor, homicide is definitely the majority opinion and I'm in the minority on that one.

I agree with both of these statements. Perhaps we should start adding the majority opinion with our comments and longtime posters can help confirm them.

Great topic!

I've never felt that Jay Durham was targeted by the truck driver who hit him. To me, it's far more plausible that the driver fell asleep at the wheel than that he would choose to stage such a violent and public attack.

Like most here (I think), I believe that the Archambeau/Bruguier case was a tragic accident. I don't think they fell through the ice, though. Rather, I think they died of exposure somewhere nearby and were covered by falling and/or drifting snow. Later, when the spring thaw began, their bodies were washed into the ditch.

I fully believe that Bryan Nisenfeld was being harassed at school, but I don't believe it escalated to murder (the former act, despicable though it may be, is a far cry from the latter). It was established that Nisenfeld was known for visiting Mount Hope Bay, and I think it's more plausible that he fell to his death there, either accidentally or by suicide.

I'm sure I'll think of more. As for the most annoying case, nothing holds a candle to the fertility statues. Sexually active, seemingly healthy women of childbearing age become pregnant...yup, totally the statues did it. :D

Great topic!

I've never felt that Jay Durham was targeted by the truck driver who hit him. To me, it's far more plausible that the driver fell asleep at the wheel than that he would choose to stage such a violent and public attack.

Like most here (I think), I believe that the Archambeau/Bruguier case was a tragic accident. I don't think they fell through the ice, though. Rather, I think they died of exposure somewhere nearby and were covered by falling and/or drifting snow. Later, when the spring thaw began, their bodies were washed into the ditch.

I fully believe that Bryan Nisenfeld was being harassed at school, but I don't believe it escalated to murder (the former act, despicable though it may be, is a far cry from the latter). It was established that Nisenfeld was known for visiting Mount Hope Bay, and I think it's more plausible that he fell to his death there, either accidentally or by suicide.

I'm sure I'll think of more. As for the most annoying case, nothing holds a candle to the fertility statues. Sexually active, seemingly healthy women of childbearing age become pregnant...yup, totally the statues did it. :D

Great responses, sharonite. To be completely honest (and this is embarrassing) in all these years I never once considered the notion that the truck driver in the Jay Durham case could have simply fallen asleep at the wheel, but when I think about it, it makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure that he wasn't targeted (for whatever reason, some people have this weird hatred for bikers), but given just what we know it looks like your theory is more plausible.

I agree with you totally on Bryan Nisenfeld.

I never bought the theory that the Jay Durham attack was an accident. If somebody falls asleep at the wheel, the vehicle is almost certainly to decelerate and/or swerve. There was no indication of that. In fact, the opposite appears true: the truck was accelerating. Granted, that may be a re-enactment error, but assuming that Jay didn't decelerate his motorcycle, the truck by default would have had to accelerate in order to hit Jay because the 2 won't collide if they don't alter their speed.

And in the slight, nearly impossible chance it was an accident, I will tell you that the truckers that left him there to die was certainly NO accident.

Ah this one is easy for me. I've always felt that Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald was innocent a sentiment that is clearly not shared by the majority on this forum.

Horses for courses I suppose.

Ah this one is easy for me. I've always felt that Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald was innocent a sentiment that is clearly not shared by the majority on this forum.

Horses for courses I suppose.

I always like going through the MacDonald threads on this forum because judging by the posts from several years ago, it seemed like the majority of posters here thought he was innocent. However, that sentiment has certainly changed in recent years. In fact, during those lengthy MacDonald threads, you can sometimes see posters here change their minds as the years go by. I'm sure the results of those DNA tests probably made a lot of difference.

I don't believe the account of Anthonette Cayedito's sister Wendy about how Anthonette was abducted that night. She waited for years to tell the story, and it just seemed made up or coached, IMO.

And I don't think Jay Durham was the victim of any accident. But I also don't think he was deliberately targeted that night either.

I never bought the theory that the Jay Durham attack was an accident. If somebody falls asleep at the wheel, the vehicle is almost certainly to decelerate and/or swerve. There was no indication of that. In fact, the opposite appears true: the truck was accelerating. Granted, that may be a re-enactment error, but assuming that Jay didn't decelerate his motorcycle, the truck by default would have had to accelerate in order to hit Jay because the 2 won't collide if they don't alter their speed.

I know I'm probably in the minority, hence why I posted here. ;) I just think it's more likely that the truck driver was asleep (or drowsy, or drunk, or inattentive, or some combination of all the above) rather than carrying out a risky and highly-visible planned attack. And I don't think we can take the re-enactment as the gospel truth (I've been able to find next to no information about this case outside of UM itself) or that we can say it's flatly impossible for a vehicle to stay on the road and/or accelerate with a driver asleep at the wheel--the (now-former) Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts apparently managed to pull it off (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/01/03/investigation-ma-lt-gov-totaled-state-car-while-driving-100-mph-may-have-been-asleep-at-the-wheel/).

And in the slight, nearly impossible chance it was an accident, I will tell you that the truckers that left him there to die was certainly NO accident.

Never said that it was.

Just thought of another one: I think it's extremely weird when the loved ones of a murdered or "unexplained death" person actually portray themselves in the reenactment. I personally would think it would be in poor taste and/or too emotional.

Just thought of another one: I think it's extremely weird when the loved ones of a murdered or "unexplained death" person actually portray themselves in the reenactment. I personally would think it would be in poor taste and/or too emotional.


What are some examples of that?

What are some examples of that?

Countless examples of people who portray themselves in the reenactments. Off the top of my head, Tim McClure, Rhonda Hinson (not so sure about her mother, but her father definitely), Chad Maurer's parents, Kurt McFall's dad, and (to a lesser extent) the elderly couple from the Veronica Jefferson segment.

It's just for me personally it would be to painful to "act" on camera and relive the last moments or days I saw a loved one (or stranger for that matter) before they were murdered or disappeared, etc.

did Gord McCallister portray himself. The guy in the segment looked strikingly similar.

did Gord McCallister portray himself. The guy in the segment looked strikingly similar.

No.

Countless examples of people who portray themselves in the reenactments. Off the top of my head, Tim McClure, Rhonda Hinson (not so sure about her mother, but her father definitely), Chad Maurer's parents, Kurt McFall's dad, and (to a lesser extent) the elderly couple from the Veronica Jefferson segment.

It's just for me personally it would be to painful to "act" on camera and relive the last moments or days I saw a loved one (or stranger for that matter) before they were murdered or disappeared, etc.

Didn't Kerri Lynn Nixon's sister play her in the episode?

What are some examples of that?
I think it might be cathartic for some. I don't think I would choose to participate if (God forbid) I was ever in that position, but I am reminded of James Elroy's book about his mother's murder. He talked about his participation on Unsolved Mysteries, meeting Robert Stack and joking around with the actress who played his mom. It seemed like a positive experience for him despite his reason for being on the show and the lack of a resolution.

I never bought the theory that the Jay Durham attack was an accident. If somebody falls asleep at the wheel, the vehicle is almost certainly to decelerate and/or swerve. There was no indication of that. In fact, the opposite appears true: the truck was accelerating. Granted, that may be a re-enactment error, but assuming that Jay didn't decelerate his motorcycle, the truck by default would have had to accelerate in order to hit Jay because the 2 won't collide if they don't alter their speed.

And in the slight, nearly impossible chance it was an accident, I will tell you that the truckers that left him there to die was certainly NO accident.

I never thought it was an accident either, and something just occurred to me that makes that theory even harder to swallow. Not only would the truck decelerate or swerve in that situation, but large tractor trailers usually have manual transmissions, which means that if the driver's foot comes off of the clutch, the engine is going to die and the truck will come to a near-dead stop.

Dick Hansen - I side with the whole drug scenario

Aliens - Top secret government aircraft, natural phenomenon, or demonic manifestations

Ghosts - Witchcraft and demons

Tammy Lynn Leppert - hard to tell if Timothy Rue did it, or if he's just some crazy guy with a strange, consuming obsession. His prevarication leads one to suspect.

Dale Kerstetter - I found the attitude of the employers to be somewhat callous, seeing as they may have witnessed the final moments of that man's life on video tape.

I've always been very on the fence about whether or not Dale Kerstetter was involved in the robbery at the factory; I'll admit that I don't totally rule out that possibility, but I also feel that it's likely that he was innocent and murdered inside the factory, but one thing I feel very strongly about regardless is that he's almost certainly dead at this point, whether it be by murder, suicide, or natural causes. The statute of limitations for this case expired at least 20 years ago, so if he did do it, there was certainly no reason for him to stay away all that time and abandon all contact.

Didn't Kerri Lynn Nixon's sister play her in the episode?
Yes, she did. That must have been very hard, particularly the scene where she tells the eyewitness (that turned out to be wrong) her name. That account was pretty much the sole hope the family had to go on.

Another couple that portrayed themselves would be the Baskins. How hard would that be, especially for Debbie in the argument scene with an actress portraying her mother?

Another one that stands out to me is Pamela Straight, who was the mother of the three boys on the Liebling. That scene where she's helping the youngest boy pack gets to me just watching it. I can only imagine how she felt. :(

Dub and Chase Wackerhagen - I don't believe that 50 year old guy and his 10 year old son are one of the world's greatest disappearing team. These cases where someone (and even more so with a pair of people) vanishes and never seen or heard from again 20 years later always have made me conclude that they are dead, and not master criminal escape artists. I've always felt this may have been a home invasion or something similar. The motive that UM and most posters put forward didn't make sense - he was mean to his gf over treatment of his son, but then he kills his own son?

Mike Reimer - Or rather, I WAS in the minority about this (Mike was a victim and never left the woods) until his skull was found.

Dave Bocks - I believe he was murdered. Either that or he had someone help him commit suicide in the worst possible way, but that is implausible.

Tammy Leppert - always thought it was fishy about the guy who 'kicked her out of his car' wasnt questioned more and we heard nothing much about it, instead we hear more about the noise over her paranoia about 'some stuff' she saw at a party.

Dale Kerstetter - another example where the majority view seems be that a 50+ year old man with few resources pulls off a master disappearing act and isn't heard or seen again 20 years later. He was either killed on the spot or taken out somewhere and killed. I agree with the other poster that the plant management was callous about his fate.

Dottie Caylor - I actually believe Jule Caylor in a 'stupid is as stupid does' kind of manner. He was just a big enough of a jerk to admit how he really felt. Really anything could have happened to Dottie.

One area I know I've always been in the minority on is thinking Gale Delano was a disgusting wench for doing that. I wouldn't have held a lifetime grudge against her for committing suicide, but there were ways to do it that didn't involve throwing suspicion on innocent people. There were ways to do it that didn't involved making your family thinking you were being tied up and tortured and raped repeatedly or God knows what. There were ways to do it that didn't involve abandoning your kids. There were ways to do it that didn't involve a miracle being needed to even identify her body, and a ton of resources being wasted in order to do so.

I think that our opinions of Gail Delano are colored by our own life experiences. I do not condone her actions, but I do not vilify her for what she did. If anything, I pity her for losing her grip on reality and not being able to get the help she needed. I know personally what it is like to be lonely, not have anyone to turn to, and in turn create a reality that really didn't exist. Luckily I was able to turn things around, and have a very happy life today.

Maybe if someone close to me had committed suicide I would have different outlook.



PS - I am surprised this thread has gotten to 4 pages without any mention of Angela Hammond or Chaim Weiss.

Dub and Chase Wackerhagen - I don't believe that 50 year old guy and his 10 year old son are one of the world's greatest disappearing team. These cases where someone (and even more so with a pair of people) vanishes and never seen or heard from again 20 years later always have made me conclude that they are dead, and not master criminal escape artists. I've always felt this may have been a home invasion or something similar. The motive that UM and most posters put forward didn't make sense - he was mean to his gf over treatment of his son, but then he kills his own son?

Mike Reimer - Or rather, I WAS in the minority about this (Mike was a victim and never left the woods) until his skull was found.

Dave Bocks - I believe he was murdered. Either that or he had someone help him commit suicide in the worst possible way, but that is implausible.

Tammy Leppert - always thought it was fishy about the guy who 'kicked her out of his car' wasnt questioned more and we heard nothing much about it, instead we hear more about the noise over her paranoia about 'some stuff' she saw at a party.

Dale Kerstetter - another example where the majority view seems be that a 50+ year old man with few resources pulls off a master disappearing act and isn't heard or seen again 20 years later. He was either killed on the spot or taken out somewhere and killed. I agree with the other poster that the plant management was callous about his fate.

Dottie Caylor - I actually believe Jule Caylor in a 'stupid is as stupid does' kind of manner. He was just a big enough of a jerk to admit how he really felt. Really anything could have happened to Dottie.

I never thought Dub was guilty either. He's like 6'4 and 240 pounds. If he ran off somewhere, he'd stick out like a sore thumb.

Regarding Dale Kerstetter, the thread with the poll, which is currently just a few threads down, has roughly 75% of the respondents believing he was an innocent victim.

I think that our opinions of Gail Delano are colored by our own life experiences. I do not condone her actions, but I do not vilify her for what she did. If anything, I pity her for losing her grip on reality and not being able to get the help she needed. I know personally what it is like to be lonely, not have anyone to turn to, and in turn create a reality that really didn't exist. Luckily I was able to turn things around, and have a very happy life today.

Maybe if someone close to me had committed suicide I would have different outlook.



PS - I am surprised this thread has gotten to 4 pages without any mention of Angela Hammond or Chaim Weiss.

Angela Hammond was mentioned on page one.

I'm sorry for your loneliness and am happy you turned things around. I think that a lot of us on here have been in a situation similar to Gail's, myself included. I don't hold anything against her for being lonely. I don't hold anything against her for being depressed. Heck, I don't hold anything against her for committing suicide. But I think the manner in which she did so was particularly heinous. Unfortunately, it's a message I haven't been able to get across on here. She abandoned her two sons, caused her family to become wracked with worry, threw suspicion on innocent people, and caused investigators to devote a lot of time, money, effort and resources because she flew to the opposite end of the country, checked into a motel under an assumed name an offed herself. All of which was completely unnecessary. She knew she was depressed, she knew she was mentally ill and she decided to take her own life rather than get the appropriate help for it. Gail's actions, particularly calling the late night dj and bemoaning her problems to him while refusing to go on a date with him when he asked, paint the portrait of somebody who was extremely desperate for attention, not love.

Another couple that portrayed themselves would be the Baskins. How hard would that be, especially for Debbie in the argument scene with an actress portraying her mother?(

I imagine the dialogue was probably toned down a bit from the actual conversation they had for Debbie's sake.

I think it was common for people to portray themselves when it came to family abductions. Ladonna Morrow had to relive basically the same thing the Baskins did when she portrayed herself. The confrontation with her mother, the court room drama where the judge takes custody away, even the realization that her son wasn't going to be coming home.

I never thought Dub was guilty either. He's like 6'4 and 240 pounds. If he ran off somewhere, he'd stick out like a sore thumb.

Regarding Dale Kerstetter, the thread with the poll, which is currently just a few threads down, has roughly 75% of the respondents believing he was an innocent victim.

Yeah, Kerstetter has leaned toward innocent on the boards for awhile now that I read up on it, but some older comments seemed pretty convinced he pulled off the master heist.

With Dub, I tend to dislike segments where the wife/gf's family gets to ream on the missing man on how horrible he was (though IMO, Dub's GF came off bad unintentionally in the segment, screaming at his son) with anecdotal evidence. Mike Reimer was portrayed the same way.

Tammy Leppert - always thought it was fishy about the guy who 'kicked her out of his car' wasnt questioned more and we heard nothing much about it, instead we hear more about the noise over her paranoia about 'some stuff' she saw at a party.

Having been to the locations in question, it always bugged me a little that in a location like that, that someone wouldn't have noticed foul play (if there was any).

Makes me think that she was with someone she knew or at least kind of knew and maybe someone was taking advantage of her messed up state-of-mind at the time.

Maybe something happened behind closed doors or she was just taken out of the area.

I disagree with everyone on their take of dick hanson's killer's reason. I bet he was just some insecure, disgruntled person and was jealous that he saw a man with a woman. I used to be single and disgruntled and it pissed me off (when buzzed) in my late 20s whenever I saw a couple at a bar or out in public. and when I got drunk I was even more angry and jealous. that is why I stay away from alcohol today :)

I think dick hanson's killer (they were all in a bar area and it was late) was drunk or very buzzed and it made him sad and jealous and then angry that this man (dick) had a woman (date) to go home with and have sex and he was single and could not pick up a woman from the bar like many men can do. then he got pissed and followed them. There is a thing called misogyny - the hatred of women. and I think there is something else called the hatred of men, but from a womans perspective. it is possible that constant jealousy of men and women can turn someone into a stalker and then later into a stalker/killer


Dick Hansen - I side with the whole drug scenario

Aliens - Top secret government aircraft, natural phenomenon, or demonic manifestations

Ghosts - Witchcraft and demons

Tammy Lynn Leppert - hard to tell if Timothy Rue did it, or if he's just some crazy guy with a strange, consuming obsession. His prevarication leads one to suspect.

Dale Kerstetter - I found the attitude of the employers to be somewhat callous, seeing as they may have witnessed the final moments of that man's life on video tape.

Not a UM case, but I'm not convinced that all the West Memphis 3 are innocent.

what about the UM's tri state murderers? are they innocent?

Katherine Korzilius

I am certain she fell off the car

Katherine Korzilius

I am certain she fell off the car


Me too. If it weren't for her father's connection to a famous rock star, I am certain UM would never have done a segment on this case.

I'm also certain she fell off. It's actually kind of surprising that it is the minority opinion since it's the most straightforward theory.

The Korzillius case is sort of like the Dakota's Double Death, in that it will never be "Solved" because it was an obvious accident and not a mystery at all.

The Korzillius case is sort of like the Dakota's Double Death, in that it will never be "Solved" because it was an obvious accident and not a mystery at all.

I agree on both of these cases. There were a lot of cases that were apparent suicides, but the family members insist murder that I don't think will ever officially be solved.

A lot of people on here believe Stuart Heaton is innocent. I think he's guilty as hell.

I think so too.

I disagree that Katherine fell off the van. If she did fall off or jump off there is no way she would land like that on the ground all placed up nicely together with her arms folded by her sides. how do you explain that?

Katherine Korzilius

I am certain she fell off the car

I disagree that Katherine fell off the van. If she did fall off or jump off there is no way she would land like that on the ground all placed up nicely together with her arms folded by her sides. how do you explain that?


Because that's how she fell. There are no alternative explanations that make sense.

The post-mortem concluded that she didn't have any injuries that were consistent with being hit by a car in a hit & run, so we can rule that out.

The alternative is that some abductor took her and then spent some time IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET IN A DENSELY POPULATED SURBURBAN NEIGHBORHOOD IN BROAD DAYLIGHT carefully arranging her body before taking off, no witness having seen anything.

Nope. She fell off the back of the vehicle.

Elvis Presley - he had visited his dentist on August 15th to have a temporary crown put in; it has also been suggested that the codeine the dentist gave him that day resulted in an anaphylactic shock that assisted in his death.

He didn't kill himself.

Rae Ann Mossor - like many suicides featured on UM, the parents have a hard time accepting suicide. She likely sat on top of the trunk and for all we know pulled the trigger with her toe. Women tend to shoot themselves in the chest when committing suicide.

Cindy James - clear case of Münchausen syndrome; committed suicide.

All Ghost Stories - Don't believe any of them. All total bollocks.

Amnesia stories - Mostly total nonsense. Most egregious example is 'Gigi'.

No way. Perhaps you are wrong. There is no way a girl/kid/person will fall off only to have her hands/arms folded inwards. when you fall front ward or backward you are going to move your arms and hands in some sort of direction. Detectives said this on Forensic Files that when you fall a certain way you are going to react with your arms because you want to prevent a fall.

Perhaps she was accidentally hit by a sober driver who was driving around and got out, freaked, and felt sorry for her and kempt her up nicely to show remorse, most likely a female driver. And took off. not everyone is going to see every single attack or 'hit and run' in America. we do not need witnesses to prove that this happened (or did not happen in some cases).

Plus, like the mother and her detective said - if she jumped up or climbed up on the back of the van onto a ladder or holding from the van - wouldn't the mom or her son see or hear her on the van? I know one thing if my little brother climbed up on our old van only to fall off I think I (or my dad) would hear him climbing on the van and/or the sound of him falling off onto the hard ground.

Also, usually people have a habit of always looking in their rearview mirror inside their car or the one on the drivers (or passenger) side door. when we are parked for a moment, like the mom was at the mailbox, then when we leave we make a habit of looking out the rearview mirror (sometimes many times). after pulling away several feet or yards we still look out one of the 3 rearview mirrors just as habit. ever look in your review mirror while driving and then think why did I even need to look in the mirror when there is no traffic? lol. its habbit. and we are cautious drivers and sometimes obsessive compulsive as far as safety.

as katherines mom went down the street I am sure she "could" have noticed a girl laying on the ground in her rear mirror on her way home.

Plus, it seems like everyone on here thinks Katherine was the type of dumb kid to get up on the vehicle only to fall and fold her arms in and die shortly later. She was of age and clearly knew the danger of a moving car. A girl would not do that. A boy is likely to get hurt for a stupid idea - and they have ER and hospital research and data that proves in the summer kids are more likely to get hurt, but that boys get hurt more so than girl because "boys will be boys".

I say Katherine would be scared to ride home on the back of a van. I would even as an adult, but even more scared as a tiny kid. She did not go on the van. The only reason you say that is because of UM where those people said she fell off. If they did not say that - well you would never have suggested that. You are just frustrated at this case, like we all our.

I just put in my old UM dvd with Katherine's case. If she did fall off - I thought she did near the mail box. I thought she was on the back of her mom's van and fell off right after her mom took off from the mail box. I forgot. But now I remember - some say she got on the back of the van and held on their for a while, which is why she was found in the same direction as her mom was driving home. Makes perfect sense! Yet wouldn't her mom or brother see her on the back of the vehicle? And how come no one ever says if she was on the back of the van she got scared and pounded on the rear window to get their attention, especially when she was about to fall off?

there were no witnesses to an attacker or mysterious car driving around. but there were no witnesses in the neighborhood seeing a girl on the back of a car.

Update - in the video it does not look like her arms are folded in. her arms could look like she fell off a car perhaps. i was wrong. but her mom did say it looked like someone kempt her up.
Because that's how she fell. There are no alternative explanations that make sense.

The post-mortem concluded that she didn't have any injuries that were consistent with being hit by a car in a hit & run, so we can rule that out.

The alternative is that some abductor took her and then spent some time IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET IN A DENSELY POPULATED SURBURBAN NEIGHBORHOOD IN BROAD DAYLIGHT carefully arranging her body before taking off, no witness having seen anything.

Nope. She fell off the back of the vehicle.

ok after watching the Katherine segment again tonight - I see your point somewhat.

When the mom drives around her area to find Katherine she found Katherine on the same street she drove home on in the first place. And Katherine's body was found on the right side of the right lane. Thus if she was on the back of the car and fell off she could have landed in that spot near the right side of the right lane (near the grass). And there was a bumper in the back of the van/jeep where a little kid would have sit on while holding the central door handle/lock on the rear door of the van.

though the doctor said the injuries did not look like a fall - they would know what injuries happen from an accidental fall, suicide, or murder. and Katherine had a splint on her finger (I also forgot about this!) and would know better not to hold onto a moving vehicle especially after a hand or finger splint on. if there were no splint on perhaps she would jump on, but while injured I highly doubt a girl would do that!

If she did fall from a moving vehicle I say its what 1 detective suggested: that someone tried to kidnap her, she screamed inside their car or van and opened the door handle and jumped out. Or after Kath screamed in their car they kicked her out of the car themselves.

I am open to the idea of her accidentally falling off her mom's car, but with the splint on her hand or finger I doubt this. I am starting to think this case had nothing to do with a car at all. I have heard of cases from Forensic Files and The New Detectives where a man (ON FOOT) walks with a little boy or girl to a nearby stranger's garage or back yard only to beat the crap out of the kid and kill them just for the heck of it or to rape them and kill them. They caught one guy who was 17 yrs old and a friend of the family.

My opinion is this - a teenage boy or man in his twenties who knew the family either as a neighbor or friend of the family was obsessed with little girls and got his moment and beat up Katherine, explaining her bruises all over her body in which the doctor said were not the result of a fall from a car.

Because that's how she fell. There are no alternative explanations that make sense.

The post-mortem concluded that she didn't have any injuries that were consistent with being hit by a car in a hit & run, so we can rule that out.

The alternative is that some abductor took her and then spent some time IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET IN A DENSELY POPULATED SURBURBAN NEIGHBORHOOD IN BROAD DAYLIGHT carefully arranging her body before taking off, no witness having seen anything.

Nope. She fell off the back of the vehicle.

Elvis Presley - he had visited his dentist on August 15th to have a temporary crown put in; it has also been suggested that the codeine the dentist gave him that day resulted in an anaphylactic shock that assisted in his death.

He didn't kill himself.

Rae Ann Mossor - like many suicides featured on UM, the parents have a hard time accepting suicide. She likely sat on top of the trunk and for all we know pulled the trigger with her toe. Women tend to shoot themselves in the chest when committing suicide.

Cindy James - clear case of Münchausen syndrome; committed suicide.

All Ghost Stories - Don't believe any of them. All total bollocks.

Amnesia stories - Mostly total nonsense. Most egregious example is 'Gigi'.

Agreed on Rae Ann Mossor. I don't know if she did it with her toe, but there have been cases where people kill themselves with shotguns. It does happen.

It's unfortunate that several of the amnesia cases turned out to be criminals that were on the run. I wonder if UM stopped doing amnesia cases for that reason. The cases do tend to get pretty pedestrian after awhile.

Elvis Presley - he had visited his dentist on August 15th to have a temporary crown put in; it has also been suggested that the codeine the dentist gave him that day resulted in an anaphylactic shock that assisted in his death.

He didn't kill himself.

Rae Ann Mossor - like many suicides featured on UM, the parents have a hard time accepting suicide. She likely sat on top of the trunk and for all we know pulled the trigger with her toe. Women tend to shoot themselves in the chest when committing suicide.

Cindy James - clear case of Münchausen syndrome; committed suicide.

All Ghost Stories - Don't believe any of them. All total bollocks.

Amnesia stories - Mostly total nonsense. Most egregious example is 'Gigi'.

Is there much doubt - beyond a few fringe cranks - about the cause of Elvis's death? It was clearly a heart attack brought on by his poor health... how much his prescription drug abuse contributed to that is probably academic at this point.

I'm as convinced as I can be that Cindy James terrorised herself and there was no stalker - but the manner of her death does raise an eyebrow.

All the host stories are rubbish (chuck in all the psychics, UFOs and Bigfoots/Mothmans while you're at it). Agree also on the amnesia issue. Long term, global amnesia (i.e. not due to an alcoholic "blackout" or post concussion syndrome which lasts a few hours) is common on daytime soaps, but it is exceedingly rare in real life. The number of genuine cases of it probably only number in the dozens.

Is there much doubt - beyond a few fringe cranks - about the cause of Elvis's death? It was clearly a heart attack brought on by his poor health... how much his prescription drug abuse contributed to that is probably academic at this point.

An anatomy and physiology professor I had once was pretty sold on the theory that the reason for Elvis's death was directly linked to performing the Valsalva maneuver, specifically the transient changes in heart rate and BP. As it goes, Elvis's sedentary lifestyle, poor diet, and opioid abuse all culminated to a deadly result from a typically benign--and necessary--physical act.

You don't think it's possible that she [Aeileen Conway] was the victim of a sexual predator?

Only 4 months later, and I respond. That's efficiency!

It's an interesting point I hadn't considered. I am going to be repetitious here, but the big thing with that case to me has always been that the accident was not "staged" in the sense that Aeileen's car really did slam into the guard rail at about 50MPH, but at the same time there were skid marks on the road prior to guard rail, which suggest someone was behind the wheel, attempting to stop the car prior to the crash.

To me that eliminates unsupported theories that Aeileen was dead or incapacitated before the car crashed, and that the car was somehow sent careening toward the guard rail in an effort to stage an accident. It also makes it highly unlikely that she was not operating the car when it crashed, because she was found behind the wheel.

I take your point - that perhaps someone gained access to her house, and then forced her to drive out into the hinterland somewhere with the intent of assaulting her, but that somehow things went wrong and the car crashed, and while she was trapped inside the perpetrator wasn't, and was able to escape on foot. It's possible.

There isn't any evidence that I am aware of that a second person was at the scene, or in the car, or had escaped on foot (no foot prints leading away, etc.). And it leaves unanswered this question: if this guy had gotten into her house, why was it necessary to force her to drive off somewhere to assault her? They were alone in her house.

So, while I guess it cannot be discounted, I do think it is highly unlikely absent any physical evidence to support it.

Man, would I love for this one to get a definitive explanation.

Only 4 months later, and I respond. That's efficiency!

Yeah wish you would stop in more often, I enjoy your posts.

It's an interesting point I hadn't considered. I am going to be repetitious here, but the big thing with that case to me has always been that the accident was not "staged" in the sense that Aeileen's car really did slam into the guard rail at about 50MPH, but at the same time there were skid marks on the road prior to guard rail, which suggest someone was behind the wheel, attempting to stop the car prior to the crash.

I think either Aeileen was forced to drive the car, or her assailant was driving. If Aeileen was driving, it may have been her attempt to escape her abductor by slamming the car in hopes of injuring him, but not severely injuring herself (which would be why she hit the brakes). If her assailant was driving, she could have grabbed the wheel in a last ditch effort to escape by crashing the car, and her assailant was the one who slammed the brakes.

To me that eliminates unsupported theories that Aeileen was dead or incapacitated before the car crashed, and that the car was somehow sent careening toward the guard rail in an effort to stage an accident. It also makes it highly unlikely that she was not operating the car when it crashed, because she was found behind the wheel.

I haven't seen the segment in a long time, I did not know that she was not found behind the wheel. That makes me think the only possible scenario is that she attempted to crash the car to somehow escape from her abductor.

I take your point - that perhaps someone gained access to her house, and then forced her to drive out into the hinterland somewhere with the intent of assaulting her, but that somehow things went wrong and the car crashed, and while she was trapped inside the perpetrator wasn't, and was able to escape on foot. It's possible.

There isn't any evidence that I am aware of that a second person was at the scene, or in the car, or had escaped on foot (no foot prints leading away, etc.). And it leaves unanswered this question: if this guy had gotten into her house, why was it necessary to force her to drive off somewhere to assault her? They were alone in her house.

She could have easily told this person, "Hey my husband's coming home soon for lunch" or told him that any one of her kids would be home soon. Or, if this guy was somehow known to the Conway's, it would make all the sense in the world to take her out of the house and try to kill her elsewhere. And like I said, I haven't seen the segment in awhile, but I don't remember them mentioning foot prints, but that doesn't necessarily mean they weren't there...knowing how UM leaves out a lot of crucial details.

So, while I guess it cannot be discounted, I do think it is highly unlikely absent any physical evidence to support it.

Man, would I love for this one to get a definitive explanation.

Me too. The abduction theory (be it a botched burglary or sexual assault) is the only one that fits most of the known evidence. I can't think of a single theory that would fit all of the holes in this case.

I hope I'm not the minority on this, but I don't believe Callie Thornbourgh is responsible for her father's death because she didn't let him shoot Steve Wilson when he had the chance. Sadly, every time this segment ends up on the video site I see a silly comment blaming her. Steve Wilson is the only one responsible for the crime.

An anatomy and physiology professor I had once was pretty sold on the theory that the reason for Elvis's death was directly linked to performing the Valsalva maneuver, specifically the transient changes in heart rate and BP. As it goes, Elvis's sedentary lifestyle, poor diet, and opioid abuse all culminated to a deadly result from a typically benign--and necessary--physical act.

I guess when you're devouring 2 of these each night immediately before bed it's not going to end well.

http://c3327103.r3.cf0.rackcdn.com/fools-gold-loaf-1077900l1.jpg

I hope I'm not the minority on this, but I don't believe Callie Thornbourgh is responsible for her father's death because she didn't let him shoot Steve Wilson when he had the chance. Sadly, every time this segment ends up on the video site I see a silly comment blaming her. Steve Wilson is the only one responsible for the crime.

This is a lot like the "blame the victim" mentality, except that in this case it's "blame the victim's daughter." As far as I'm concerned, Callie did nothing to cause her father's murder. Instead, it was a tragic case of someone marrying a partner who turned out to be abusive, then trying to get out of the relationship, and the abusive partner killing her father.

I bet those who blame Callie for her father's death are the same mental midgets who look for scapegoats in tragedies like school shootings. I make no bones about that.

Amy Bradley information...


http://lookforamybradley.boards.net/board/2/board-public-view

Kurt McFall was not murdered by po-faced paganists who wanted his armor and human flesh.

Kurt McFall was not murdered by po-faced paganists who wanted his armor and human flesh.


I forgot about this episode. I completely agree. In fact, any of the episodes with ghosts, spontaneous combustion, and satanic worship all seem totally far-fetched to me.

I also agree with the earlier posts in this thread about Tara Calico. That picture is totally creepy and awful, but I don't think it's her. I've always thought that she was hit by a car and then buried. I think there's a police chief in her town who put this theory forward. It makes more sense to me than the Florida picture connection.

Nope, I am not getting them confused, but thank you, I couldn't remember Dave Bocks' name. I think Dale suffered a similar fate. The furnace in Dave Bocks' case was kept at an even 1300 degrees. A cremator is 1600-1800 degrees. The working temp of pyrex (one of corning's main glass products) is over 2200 degrees (thus necessitating the platinum pipes, since the melting point of platinum is over 3200 degrees)

I think he was put in one of the kilns/furnaces.

(all temps given in F)
This is not possible as the furnaces where not run at night . I would have been obvious if it had been run the next day also

This is not possible as the furnaces where not run at night . I would have been obvious if it had been run the next day also

As I've said in Dale's thread (I think) that would depend on the types of kilns/furnaces and how much glass was melted at any particular moment and how many shifts they had. Sometimes it is more efficient to keep the glass molten than to remelt it, especially when using large quantities of glass. Even if they were turned off at the end of a shift, they would still be quite hot and need to be turned back on a while before the morning shifts.

It's not a perfect theory, but without knowing the layout and equipment involved in the factory, I can't say for certain. It would, however, explain how he is never seen leaving the factory (assuming it is the pipes rolled up on the dolly)

And hey, that's why I posted it in the case I'm in the minority on thread, because most people don't share my theory. :)