The 20 Biggest Mess-Ups/Mistakes in NBC History [Archive] - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

TMC

10-17-2013, 03:13 AM

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ScrewedByTheNetwork/LiveActionTV

ALF:
As Season 4 came to an end, NBC wasn't guaranteeing another season but did promise at least one extra final episode to resolve the cliffhanger the season ended on. They ended up giving the show nothing in the end, and the series ended with ALF becoming a military prisoner.

There was a follow-up TV movie a few years later called Project: ALF. It featured ALF, still a prisoner but generally alright and still his old irreverent self, but the rest of the cast was written out with a one-line Put on a Bus. Also, it didn't even air on NBC, but on ABC.

There was also that talk show on TV Land, but let's not speak of that.

American Dreams: Performed fairly decently in its original Sunday-night timeslot, but it wasn't enough. NBC played a wise move and moved the show to Wednesdays at 10 in direct competition with CBS' Survivor: Palau and ABC's LOST. The show was canceled despite many fan campaigns, but the producers were able to film a brief finally to Wrap It Up, but NBC ultimately decided not to broadcast the finale, leaving many viewers hanging.

Bionic Woman: The 2007 version didn't set the world on fire, but NBC nonetheless said it was sticking by the series when production and broadcast had to be halted due to the Hollywood writers strike. Cast members for upcoming episodes were announced, and NBC indicated several times that the show would be allowed to at least complete its 13-episode commitment. A DVD set of the episodes that had been aired was commissioned and promoted as "Season 1 Part 1". But this apparent show of support disappeared after a couple of months and NBC cancelled the show anyway. (There are likely other series impacted similarly, and to be fair there were likely other issues such as actor availability at work in the decision to cancel, but this example is notable for the public show of support given the series before the network turned its back on it, thereby, if nothing else, casting the impression of it being screwed.)

Boom Town: This show was an interesting experiment. It featured numerous characters, overlapping storylines, out-of-order timelines, and unusual visual techniques. It could conceivably have caught on as a cult show but unfortunately it didn't find an audience. NBC deserves credit for trying something different and for bringing the low-rated show back for a second season. However, the show was given a retool by NBC in season 2, removing most of the unique elements in an attempt to make the show more like Law & Order in hopes of getting similar ratings, but they cancelled it anyways and refused to air the remaining season 2 episodes.

Breakthrough with Tony Robbins: Which aired in Summer 2010, was screwed by NBC because it was the last program approved (for midseason) by programming non-wunderkind Ben Silverman before the merciful end of his tenure as president of the network. As anyone in the entirety of both NBC Universal and the universe but Ben and Tony knew nobody was going to watch what was pretty much a one-hour infomercial in primetime, the program got a cheap budget, the infamously lousy Tuesday at 8pm timeslot, and was absolutely not promoted at all beyond the required synopsis and a Today fourth hour interview with Robbins (you get into Hota & Kathie Lee & Wine territory for a promo interview and you know your show is the network's shame of the moment). It also wasn't broadcast in HD, a Kiss of Death for a program in 2010 unless you're on public access. It died a swift and merciful death after two weeks to be shoved off to shame on NBC.com, with the episodes finally (barely) seeing the light of day on the ever-cursed Oprah Winfrey Network.

Chuck: Was a mild example of this. While the show was a critical success, the show was never a huge ratings hit. This resulted in every season starting with season 2 being a potential final season. In fact, were it not for a large fan campaign and a sponsorship by Subway, the 2nd Season might have actually been the final season...

Community:
Things aren't looking so great for this show. Despite critical acclaim, a cult following,and getting picked up for a fourth season it seems that NBC are trying to screw this one over.

First, Season 4 was cut from the regular 24 episodes to 13.

The series was then announced for the infamous Friday Night Death Slot.

To add insult to injury, creator and showrunner Dan Harmon got replaced without his knowledge.

And then the series was pulled before the premiere, with NBC claiming they "wanted to use the new hits on their schedule to better promote their upcoming series". The real reason is that they needed to hold it and Whitney to replace other comedy bombs - in Whitney's case, Wednesdays at 8 in place of megabomb Animal Practice. Community returned on February 7 to the same Thursday night slot it's always held, once 30 Rock ends its run.
To be fair, even though the reviews and general reception has been great, the viewership was far down to begin with.

The name of the save-Community campaign is Six Seasons and a Movie. Why? In a flashback, Abed is dressed up (and annoying Jeff) in anticipation for The Cape. Jeff bitterly tells him it'll last three weeks, which Abed emphatically denies with "Six seasons and a movie!" No one knows how to go meta like Community.

Freaks and Geeks: Not only was this show given an inconvenient Saturday-evening timeslot, but several episodes were left unaired (until Fox Family picked up the series) simply because the NBC executives didn't like them. For example, the episode "Kim Kelly Is My Friend" was left unaired because NBC felt it was too violent/scary for what they (wrongly) perceived as a children's show.

Hunter: This TV series was screwed over by NBC as, in the wake of the Rodney King beating and subsequent fallout, Moral Guardians were increasingly critical of a Cowboy Cop like Hunter being portrayed as a hero.

Imagine That: This Hank Azaria show aired two episodes, and that was it. He got three episodes for Free Agents on NBC in 2011, which was a workplace dramedy mismatched with Whitney Cummings's self-titled three-camera sitcom.

The Jim Henson Hour: Despite being critically acclaimed and being nominated for several Emmy Awards, the show aired in the Friday night death slot, right against Full House and Perfect Strangers, where it achieved very low ratings. After four episodes, it was moved to Sunday nights. However, the show performed even worse in the ratings, and NBC cancelled the series after only 9 of the 12 episodes had aired.

Joey: This Friends Spin-Off got screwed by NBC in its second season when it was moved to the timeslot opposite American Idol (a fate nearly as bad as, if not worse than, the Friday Night Death Slot) and of course its ratings soon declined considerably. Even worse, the show was suddenly cancelled mid-season with no warning, leaving eight episodes unaired in the U.S. The only way to see them (other than downloading them of course) is to import the somewhat pricey season 2 DVD from Canada.

Kings: When this show first premiered, NBC had put it in the 8:00 PM Sunday timeslot. However, despite the show's unique concept, strong cast, and high production quality, NBC decided to relegate the fledgling series to Saturday nights after airing just four episodes, where steadily declining ratings eventually killed it.

The Man from U.N.C.L.E.: In its first two seasons, the splashy spy series became one of the most popular shows on American TV and sparked a homegrown variant of Bondmania. For the third season it was decided to capitalize on the then-current "camp" craze popularized by Batman and transform UNCLE into a spy comedy with ridiculous storylines and scenes like one in which the hero dances with a gorilla. Audiences abandoned the series; the decision to revert back to a more serious storytelling model for Season 4 was too little, too late, and the once-popular show was cancelled by midseason. Had the decision not been made to change the tone, there's every chance UNCLE could have run for several more years.

Medium: This show was one of NBC's strongest performers (which isn't saying much), but was constantly put on hiatus and was treated like filler on its Monday lineup. Then CBS picked it up...and wins the Friday Night Death Slot.

Miami Vice: This show itself was screwed by putting it on opposite Dallas, then moving to Sunday night. In addition, the network was so eager to open up the show's timeslot, just after it was moved back to Friday nights, that they "burned off" four Season 5 episodes just before the finale. While two of them were largely inconsequential, the other two ("World of Trouble" and "Too Much, Too Late") wrapped up storylines going all the way back to Season 1. The latter also featured the final appearance of Pam Grier's character Valerie, and gave more context to Switek and Tubbs' decisions in the finale. The episodes didn't air on television until USA picked up the syndication rights a year later, but are included in the DVD box sets.

My Name Is Earl:
In Germany, this show got the worst treatment in existence. The first run of season one was at 11PM at Fridays. The show got cancelled after 6 weeks due to low ratings. Two years later they brought it back at the smart timeslot of 1AM in the night of Friday to Saturday. Surprisingly, it worked, and the show has better ratings than the ten viewers before. They aired two-and-a-half seasons at this timeslot and occasionally had a rerun at Saturday afternoon, which seems to have drowned because of the more popular rival channel having Scrubs and How I Met Your Mother at that time. They now announced to show the remaining episodes, now in Saturday/Sunday nights at 3AM. I have no idea how a show could generate viewers at these slots, or do they accept Tivo now?

The show also got screwed in the US when NBC chose not to renew it for a fifth season in favor of the failed Jay Leno Show experiment. TBS was offered a chance to pick it up but turned it down and creator Greg Garcia chose to do Raising Hope instead.

Garcia was aware that the show's ratings had declined in Season 4. He asked the network if they were going to renew or cancel the series. He said he could make the final episode of Season 4 a series finale that wrapped up various plotlines, or a cliffhanger that would hopefully draw viewers for the fifth season premiere. NBC told him the series would be renewed and he should make the cliffhanger. Garcia did and then NBC cancelled the series.

The New Normal: This show was cancelled after only one season, despite it's strong cult following and general well reception. The only consolation fans got was that the season had wrapped up neatly with Bryan and David getting married and Goldie giving birth.

Quantum Leap: This show was also moved around to different time slots, and fans overwhelmed the network with mail to keep it on the air. The series finale was just supposed to be a season finale. A rather depressing title card was added to the very last shot of the series in order to wrap things up.

Revolution: Many fans are crying foul, because NBC has decided to put this show on a four-month hiatus after episode 10 aired in late November 2012, and we all know how well this went for other sci-fi and/or serialized shows on network TV. However, the show is getting a second season, production is being moved to Texas, and episodes will be aired Wednesday 8:00 PM, instead of Monday 10:00 PM.

Rex Is Not Your Lawyer: NBC managed to screw an actor along with a show once. One reason David Tennant left Doctor Who after an acclaimed run was to shoot this pilot, which had a guarantee that the show would be picked up. But after a test screening where audiences didn't exactly understand the concept, they simply canned the show without reshoots and went back on the guarantee. As a result, Tennant was screwed out of not one, but two shows due to focus groups!

Saturday Night Live: Norm MacDonald was fired from the "Weekend Update" segment of this show in 1997 at the insistence of NBC executive Don Ohlmeyer, who claimed that MacDonald was "not funny", despite his popularity: Norm's appearances in sketches and on "Weekend Update" were frequently greeted with extended applause breaks, to the extent that he once had to quiet down the Studio Audience during a mid-monologue sketch involving host Sarah Michelle Gellar by saying, "Alright, I've gotta do this skit now." (One rumored reason for Ohlmeyer's distaste for MacDonald was the comic's constant quips about O.J. Simpson beating a double murder rap, because Ohlmeyer and Simpson were friends.) He later got his revenge by being asked to host the show a couple of years later, during which he poked fun at his firing, and said that while he still wasn't funny, it was okay because the show had gotten "really bad", thereby making him look much funnier by comparison.

She Spies: Had this happen twice. It started out pretty well, with its first four episodes being aired on NBC. After that, the show was dumped into first-run syndication, with some markets airing it at unholy hours in the morning. However, the show was still pretty successful, and it got renewed for a second season. However, they decided to completely retool the show, taking it from a light-hearted action/adventure/comedy series (like a gender-flipped version of Chuck) to a straight action series (basically, yet another lukewarm rip-off of Charlie's Angels). As it turns out, the comedy aspect was one of the show's strengths. It was canned soon after.

Star Trek: The Original Series:
The granddaddy of all Screwed by the Network examples is this show. After two seasons of middling ratings, NBC announced its intent to cancel the show. However, a national campaign of letter writing, led by a fan named Betty Jo Trimble, resulted in an unprecedented backdown by the network. NBC renewed the show for Season 3...but also cut the show's budget by approximately half and placed the show in the Friday Night Death Slot, when the show's demographic was likely to be doing anything but watching TV. Episode quality, and consequently ratings, suffered meteoric falls (although it was responsible for some of the series' most memorable episodes), followed by cancellation at the end of the season.

Interestingly, many of the cast and crew involved in the show later declared that the show's cancellation was the best thing to happen to the franchise — instead of the slashed budget taking its toll and resulting in a steady decline in quality, Star Trek cemented itself in the public consciousness as an excellent show killed before its time, which left fans clamoring for more and led to the creation of eleven films and five subsequent series, the second of which would win critical acclaim and eighteen Emmys in the process, and another of which would garner the highest critical ratings of any Trek series and pioneer Character Development and serialized plotlines and Myth Arcs several years before that became common on network television.

That the letter writing campaign saved Star Trek is actually a myth created by Roddenberry, who also organized the "fan campaign"; in reality, it had little to no effect (and why would it? NBC knew how many people were watching, and these numbers don't magically change if the audience starts writing letters). Though Lucille Ball, who owned series producer Desilu, did make a big stink and threatened to leave, which shook the house. But according to Inside Star Trek, the true reason Star Trek got a third season was because back then, NBC's parent company was RCA, which owned the patent for color television. Star Trek was one of the biggest reasons why people bought color TV sets, and RCA made more money by selling them to Star Trek fans than NBC lost by airing Star Trek instead of something else.

The Tonight Show:
In a tragic and inexplicable move, NBC decided to move this show, hosted by Conan O'Brien, from its regular 11:30 timeslot to 12:05. Because he knew it would push out Late Night, do more harm to The Tonight Show than help, and because he was just plain tired of being dicked around by the network, Conan threatened to quit the show and leave the network in protest. NBC paid him a penalty of $44 Million to leave while Jay Leno took The Tonight Show back. Conan was so badly screwed by the network that even his direct competitors are furious on his behalf: David Letterman, Craig Ferguson, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, George Lopez, and Jimmy Kimmel have all directly reamed NBC for their atrocious behavior.

Not to mention, in a rare example of knock-on screwing effect, the ill-advised decision to park Jay's talk show — and promote it exclusively and not Conan, even in the nightly lead-ups — five nights a week at 10:00 PM managed to screw Conan and every NBC station due to the decision to cancel five nights of prime-time scripted drama, causing ratings for the late local news to tank across the country. It arguably didn't help Jay, either.

Supposedly, the reason for this change was because NBC was tired of shelling out money for prime-time dramas that no one watched and ended up tanking, and realized it was cheaper to just produce a variety show for Jay (who was leaving The Tonight Show anyway) so he could stay with the network.
Conan and Andy did "The Legally Prohibited from Being Funny on Television Tour" from April-June, then moved to TBS.

Conan got screwed by NBC again with the handling of his production Outlaw, which not only got the Friday Night Death Slot but got canceled after just five episodes due not getting the desired 18-49 demographic (who probably don't even watch TV on Fridays). Its replacement, School Pride, got far worse ratings but didn't seem to be on any sort of cancellation threat...until the producer died.

NBC started the whole Tonight Show mess by offering O'Brien Tonight in order to prevent the same problem that occurred when Letterman quit NBC after they refused to give him Tonight after Johnny Carson retired. O'Brien was announced as the new host of Tonight more than five years earlier, during a special segment on Leno. But in the intervening years, Leno decided he didn't want to leave, and started making noises about leaving NBC if he was forced to stick to the plan. Hence, they gave him the prime-time series...so basically Leno changes his mind and NPC gives him what he wants while screwing O'Brien over. But now O'Brien's with TBS so...who's laughing now?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScrewedByTheNetwork

In 2005, ESPN opted not to continue its relationship with the National Hockey League (fresh out of the lockout that canceled the entire 2004-05 season), and the cable rights were taken over by OLN (which then became Versus), a channel dedicated to outdoor sports with distribution not as wide as ESPN's. When NBC finally offered to air the 2007 NHL playoffs, they cut away from a series-clinching playoff game IN OVERTIME to show 90 minutes of pre-race coverage of the Preakness Stakes, knocking the remainder of the game over to Versus (except in Buffalo, one of the NHL's smallest markets, and Ottawa, where the CBC knows better). Though thankfully, they've learned their lesson (and Versus, now known as the NBC Sports Network following Comcast's acquisition of NBC, has become a lot more established since.) The Preakness Stakes incident was Executive Meddling of its own, as NBC's contract with the race (negotiated years before, mind you) had advertising commitments.

In 1991, NBC broke away from the NHL All-Star Game (from 1990-1994, NBC broadcast the All-Star Game, which was pretty much the only time that the NHL was nationally broadcast on over-the-air television in the United States outside of ESPN's paid programming on ABC during the 1992-93 and 1993-94 seasons) in favor of a press conference from the Pentagon regarding the Gulf War. The previously unaired third period was rebroadcast on SportsChannel America. Unfortunately, SportsChannel America (who replaced ESPN as the NHL's primary cable broadcasting outlet in the United States in the 1988-89 season and continued through the 1991-92 season) was for all intents and purposes was a premium outlet that was available to about 1/4 less of the homes that ESPN was in at the time.

The Arena Football League may be another one screwed by NBC. After the network lost its NFL games to CBS in 1997 and the 2001 XFL debacle, NBC signed what looked like a good deal with the Arena League at the time (both sides would split ad revenues 50/50 instead of one side getting rights fees). NBC even convinced the league to move up its normal Summer schedule, saying the league could be promoted better if it started the week after the Super Bowl. But when the NFL came calling back to NBC in 2006, the network promptly forgot about the Arena League, leaving it to play at a time of year where it had to compete with the NBA, NHL, and college basketball for viewership. After returning to ESPN, the league suspended operations for the 2009, reviving in 2010 with half the previous teams choosing not to come back with it (the league slots were filled by teams coming from AF2, a secondary arena football league).

Major League Baseball screwed themselves with their short-sighted television deals back in the early 1990s. First and foremost, MLB signed a $1.2 billion (approximately) deal with CBS for the next four years. They replaced ABC (who had covered Monday and later Thursday night baseball games consecutively since 1976) and NBC (who had covered Major League Baseball in some shape or form since 1947) as the national, broadcast TV outlet for Major League Baseball. Once CBS came into the picture, Major League Baseball, under the leadership of then outgoing Commissioner Peter Ueberroth, proceeded to systematically destroy the Saturday afternoon Game of the Week (a longtime institution on NBC). CBS became notorious for their sporadic regular season scheduling (often airing golf events on weeks in place of baseball). MLB's logic was that since a myriad of games were going to air on ESPN, the concept of a nationally televised Game of the Week was growing obsolete. When the dust was settled, CBS (who by the end of 1993, had also lost the National Football League to Fox, the National Basketball Association to NBC, and college football) lost at least, half a billion dollars off of that baseball deal. Despite all of this, CBS was willing to renew their contact with MLB for two more years. Unfortunately, mid-way through the 1993 season, MLB was already working on a revenue sharing joint-venture with ABC and NBC called "The Baseball Network". The Baseball Network was even worse than what CBS had to offer (with ABC and NBC each covering six weeks of regionalized coverage following the All-Star Break). Without going into full blown detail (check the Wikpedia article on The Baseball Network to get a proper perspective) here, all that you need to know first and foremost, is that the first two rounds of the playoffs were regionally televised simultaneously. Perhaps the one positive thing to come out of the 1994-95 baseball strike, was that it hastened the premature demise of The Baseball Network (which was supposed to run through the 1999 season). Shortly afterwards, both ABC and NBC (who had to split coverage of the 1995 World Series) publicly vowed to have nothing more to do with Major League Baseball for at least the remainder of the 20th century. NBC however reluctantly (they could only be bothered to show postseason games and the All-Star Game in even numbered years) reconsidered and wound up sharing the broadcast rights with Fox through the end of the 2000 season.

Reluctantly is putting it mildly. When the 1997 World Series ended up being played by two small-market teams (Florida and Cleveland), NBC's West Coast head Don Ohlmeyer publicly declared that he hoped it would end in a four-game sweep, since even a fifth game would mean pre-empting his precious "Must See TV" Thursday lineup. (He didn't get his wish; the Series went the full seven games.)

The Fan Nicknamed Heidi Bowl where, in November 1968, NBC broke away from the final minutes of a much-anticipated American Football League match up between the Oakland Raiders and New York Jets to air Heidi, causing most fans to miss The Miracle Rally. Ever since, it's been network policy not to break away from a live sporting event. At least until 2007 (see the NHL entry above).

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ScrewedByTheNetwork/WesternAnimation

Here are linked examples of shows: Yo Yogi!, Captain N: The Game Master, Super Mario World, and other popular animated shows all ended getting spoiled and later axed by NBC because they no longer considered cartoons profitable for them. They cut their budget so drastically that it affected their programs dramatically. First, Yo Yogi! and Super Mario World ended up lasting only thirteen episodes and suffered cheap animation and bad writing (especially Yo Yogi!, which was said to be so bad that it was the reason why NBC stopped airing Saturday morning cartoons). In addition, Captain N's third season had shorter plots and also suffered from bad animation and worse writing, and it had many key elements missing. After all this madness, NBC scrapped the block entirely one year later and drove away from the cartoon industry in favor of their line-up of teen shows.

NBC's handling of the UK/New Zealand production Stressed Eric basically consisted of "remove nearly every trace of the show's cultural identity and turn it into a ripoff of The Simpsons". Burned off into the summer of 1998 (and even banned by some NBC affiliates), it was lambasted by critics and died quickly. The second season never aired in the US.

factsoflife

10-18-2013, 07:44 PM

Cancelling "Another World" and replacing it with "Passions" which was stupid and cheaply produced.

TMC

10-25-2013, 02:07 AM

Turning down Brothers (1984), which eventually went to Showtime where it got little to no publicity.

Setting It's Your Move to fail by putting it up against Dynasty.

Cancelling the original V.

I would immediately figure that a show w/ heavy gay subject matter like Brothers was considered very taboo for prime time network television back then (this was long before NBC aired Will & Grace).

It's Your Move (it was made by the people who would create Married...with Children) seemed like a show that was ahead of its time so to speak. It was sort of a sitcom version of Ferris Bueller's Day Off (i.e., a teenage con-artist/hustler as the main protagonist) a couple of years prior to the actual movie being released. It's too bad that the network had to meddle w/ the show by having Jason Bateman's character's mom catch him in the act, and thus his scams were ignored towards the end of the show's short run.

TMC

10-25-2013, 02:13 AM

Agree that these were all pretty bad moves. NBC had some pretty decent shows in the mid-70s, none of which they gave a chance to beyond one season or less: Lucas Tanner, Doctors Hospital, Medical Story, James at 15, What Really Happened to the Class of 65. I'm sure more if I thought about it.

At one point, NBC had NFL, MLB and NBA and let them all leave because cheapskate GE didn't want to pay. They did get NFL back, although only one game a week but their weekend daytime sports are from hunger. All their money is in NFL and the Olympics. Which their coverage sucks by the way.

Dick Ebersol (http://nypost.com/2011/05/22/taped-olympics-and-xfl-tarnish-ebersols-legacy/) seems to be a fall-guy of shorts for NBC Sports' decline beginning when they lost the NFL in 1997-98:
http://deadspin.com/5449864/ex+nbc-sports-employee-dick-ebersol-is-the-biggest-failure-of-them-all

mr awesome

10-25-2013, 03:21 PM

Could you imagine what a joke NBC would be without football and the voice. It would be a redux of the 70's with ambitious (desperate) and crappy programming choices and throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks. Heck, they already are doing that to an extent with all these reboots--(both aired and developed) It would be a huge train-wreck without SNF.

irehtman

10-27-2013, 06:48 AM

Putting Screech character in a difficult-made original class was too dangerous for actor Dustin Diamond to play on.

Fresh Prince of Bel Air ended before Will's final year of college, bad measurement that part. The show is all about mansion rules and these rules should help Will graduate on time during the series finale.

City Guys should have added actor Alex Morris in its fifth season. He is humorous guy and he plays Billy, the new husband of principal Karen Noble. That show also had a disorganized series finale.

Seinfeld series finale was poorly ended.

mr awesome

10-27-2013, 02:01 PM

NBC should have forced a Kramer or George spin-off from Seinfeld. After Prison of course. The MR show probably would have had more of an audience if they just called the character Cosmo Kramer.

TMC

11-30-2013, 03:57 AM

http://www.bonethefish.com/viewtopics.php?4663

The National Broadcasting Company (NBC) is an American commercial broadcasting television network and former radio network headquartered in the GE Building in New York City's Rockefeller Center. Formed in 1926 by RCA, NBC was the first major broadcast network in the United States. Also known as "The Peacock Network".

Jeff Zucker

When they cancelled Law & Order

Seinfield ended

Never Boned

Day 1

James28

12-02-2013, 01:35 PM

What if NBC had never introduced their current six-feather peacock logo in 1986, and stuck with the 11-feather peacock (with or without the abstract N behind it) even today?

irehtman

12-02-2013, 02:20 PM

Fresh Prince ended its series in the wrong time before Will's final year in college. Fresh prince is all about mansion rules, but the mansion rules should help complete his college graduation on time, nothing else.

TMC

12-05-2013, 01:27 AM

I think going back to the subject of the decline of NBC Sports during the late '90s (when they first lost the NFL) through the year 2006 (when they got the NFL again via Sunday Night Football), NBC's problem is that they had a bit of a defeatist mentality (it got even worse during the Jeff Zucker era). What I mean is that from at least, a financial standpoint, everything was about "buying low and selling high" so to speak.

What perhaps didn't help was that around this period, NBC put most of their financial resources into the Olympics at the expense of year-around sports like the NFL, MLB and the NBA. I also think that NBC became a bit complacent because they figured that since they were still number one (thanks in no small part to their remaining '90s hits like Friends, Fraiser, and ER) or close to number one, they could get by (at least on short-term) w/o any major sports programming.

TMC

12-05-2013, 01:34 AM

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/nbcs-live-sound-music-cost-661511

But the Peacock is hoping to recoup its costs by repeating the musical annually and via DVD and soundtrack sales.

Read more at http://www.hitfix.com/tv-tattle#9VZer806HP7UrJ7x.99

TMC

12-18-2013, 05:07 PM

JMFabiano524

12-19-2013, 10:27 AM

JMFabiano524

12-19-2013, 10:29 AM

Three Letters

XFL :crazy: :lol: :rofl: :rotflmao: :brent

You have to say it Vince McMahon style: "the X-F-LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!"

JMFabiano524

12-19-2013, 10:30 AM

If The Simpsons can go more than 500 episodes, then the answer is yes for more seasons of Happy Days.

The reaction to the later Simpsons seasons should tell you this isn't a good idea.

icecream

12-19-2013, 01:53 PM

JMFabiano524

12-19-2013, 02:15 PM

TMC

12-19-2013, 05:50 PM

One word: AmeriCoupling. Ruined the reputation and original writing of a great BBC show.

The Tonight Show fiasco of the late 2000s. It would be like it Bob Barker scheduled a new show for himself on CBS's schedule after "retiring" from The Price Is Right. And that show was suspiciously similar to TPIR.

And someone wanted Happy Days to keep on going? Wow, just wow. The Garry Marshall shows had a knack for limping to the finish. This is why there's such a backlash towards the Simpsons (because they are kept around past their expiration date because the name and reputation alone gets them over)

Technically, "Earl" did have a finish, only we'll never know it. Because you needed to have the Raising Hope characters keep watching the newscast that previewed "a small-town criminal's quest to make good, and you won't believe how it ended."

Four more words: GAME SHOW DEATH DAY. AKA the end of Chain Reaction, High Rollers, and Hollywood Squares. Also pulling a Bullseye/Hot Potato on Weakest Link, as the end of the run became Celebrity Weakest Link and nothing but.

Hiring Jon Bauman to host the Hollywood Squares portion of the Match Game/Hollywood Squares Hour. Now, hear me out. I didn't think Jon was as awful as others do. However, it was a curious choice, moreso when Mark Goodson was basically throwing a rookie into one of the most iconic formats in game show history. Plus it's not like Peter Marshall had something to do at the time, with his Fantasy just being cancelled.

2003 Let's Make A Deal. The least said, the better. At least Wayne Brady and CBS have rebuilt the show's reputation and success.

Beginning the death of SatAM animation with T-NBC (not that I didn't enjoy those shows...) The other channels being enveloped by big corporations continued the rot.

I'm going to try to play "devil's advocate" in regards to NBC pulling out of the Saturday morning cartoon business after 1991-92 in favor T-NBC (or basically, the "Peter Engel block"):
http://www.animationnation.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=013369

December 05, 2008 12:14 AM

I mentioned earlier that NBC was the first of the major networks to abandon cartoons for their Saturday morning slots. This was the 1991 TV season, when they had 7 animated series being produced by Andy Heyward's DIC Entertainment. DIC did an abysmally poor job on these shows. The problem was obvious. They just didn't give a damn. Quality was the last thing Andy Heyward cared about. It was no wonder that NBC gave up the ghost after a season of those cartoons. I was there at the studio during that production season. Some of these shows had promise, and the crews in Burbank wanted to do well, but the apathy from the top didn't provide much motivation for doing a decent job. "Do It Cheap" was an appropriate nickname for that place, and what it lead to was the death of Saturday morning cartoons on NBC, not Peggy Charren.

DIC was and could've continued to be a powerhouse in animation if Heyward cared about more than how much money he could make. Today, although they still maintain a production presence in Burbank, DIC is nothing.

TMC

12-19-2013, 05:57 PM

Jay Leno didn't "retire", he was forced out. Conan the Barbarian never should have stolen the Tonight Show from him in the first place. Now Leno is being forced out a 2nd time (several months before his contract expires). I wish NBC had the same respect for Leno that CBS does for Letterman.

Didn't Conan O'Brien make NBC put a clause in his last contract extension that we would eventually be "promoted" to The Tonight Show in a certain amount of years? Also, Conan and/or his lawyers should've put in a clause in his contract that NBC couldn't move his Tonight Show out of the 11:35 PM spot. So in a sense, Conan kind of brought it on to himself.

I'm not saying that Jay Leno is totally innocent in all of this. Personally, Leno should've had the forsight to know that going five shows a week in prime time was going to in the long run, actually hurt NBC more than help. Leno should've stepped aside and go to another channel/network if he felt that he wasn't entirely finished. The whole thing made it look like he was going Jeff Zucker (who is the main person we should blame for this fiasco not Conan or Jay) and company a favor.

TMC

12-19-2013, 06:04 PM

You have to say it Vince McMahon style: "the X-F-LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!"

I think that the biggest mistake that the XFL made was that they (e.g. NBC and Vince McMahon/WWE or WWF at the time) tried to sell it off as "real", hard-nose football. Anybody w/ half a brain cell will quickly realize that the NFL is regardless, we're you first and foremost get high-quality football.

The XFL should've played up the sports-entertainment angle (I guess make it like the football version of Monday Night Raw) much further (and not tried to play up too much the comparisons and/or differences w/ the NFL). It seemed like they tried to have it's cake and eat it too (please football fans and wrestling fans at the same time) and they didn't have a solid identity in the end.

jonathan c herron

12-19-2013, 06:28 PM

Yong Fang

12-20-2013, 02:57 AM

HAPPY DAYS should have been cancelled in its 2nd season when it stopped being set in the 50s and changed the setting to the 70s with a sprinkling of the 50s mixed in, added the godawful live audience and became "the Fonzie show"

That is why I dislike Happy Days.

JMFabiano524

12-20-2013, 01:38 PM

listing to Nielsen Media Research !
there a joke to many good shows get canned and to many bad shows stay on !
one of them is Seinfeld that show should never have made it it was a wast of 30 min !
also killing off cartoon on saturday morning in the early 90"s !
but you can think nick and the disney channel and cartoon channel for that .
the facts of life and different strokes was want help save N.B.C IN THE EARLY 80'S .

as people are talking about shows that should have been on longer
a few shows i think should have been on longer
Happy days abc
the dukes of hazzard cbs
nightrider nbc
the A team NBC
Different strokes nbc /abc
Remington Steele nbc
black magic nbc

some of these shows like black magic did not even last a whole year

as for brothers that show would never have made it on network tv
the churchs would have boycotted the network
just like they did soap in the 70's

Seinfeld bad, and more Happy Days and Diff'rent Strokes? Should I call Superman because Bizarro is posting here? j/k

As I said before, Happy Days was well past its expiration date by the time the '80s came along. No Richie, no Ralph, no lack of Roger and other weak replacements, no joy. And considering we got to the Sam era of Strokes, whoaaaaaa....

Next, you'll tell us that they should have continued Brady Bunch and explored the character of Cousin Oliver. j/k again...

jonathan c herron

12-20-2013, 07:05 PM

Seinfeld bad, and more Happy Days and Diff'rent Strokes? Should I call Superman because Bizarro is posting here? j/k

As I said before, Happy Days was well past its expiration date by the time the '80s came along. No Richie, no Ralph, no lack of Roger and other weak replacements, no joy. And considering we got to the Sam era of Strokes, whoaaaaaa....

Next, you'll tell us that they should have continued Brady Bunch and explored the character of Cousin Oliver. j/k again...
it still had a little something left .
and no that would not have worked without Robert Reed

the whole point is that some shows are canned before there time . and some that should have been canned are not caned .
point Riptides and blacks magic two good shows that with the right placement could have gone on longer

mr awesome

12-20-2013, 08:11 PM

factsoflife

12-20-2013, 08:18 PM

How about the shoddy treatment of Anne Curry on "The Today Show" or for that matter, making us endure years of Katie Couric?

TMC

12-21-2013, 03:24 AM

NBC wanted out of the Saturday Morning game for a couple of years before they finally pulled the trigger. I remember seeing a report on the news about saturday morning ratings decline and that NBC was test marketing a Saturday Morning Newscast to replace its Cartoon line-up. By the late 80s NBC's sked was in shambles, Chipmunks and Smurfs faded and there were no big hits to replace them.

Over on CBS they hit a home run with Garfield and Freinds and then a few years later another home run with Ninja Turtles. ABC had the Real Ghostbusters, Winnie the Pooh which became ABC mainstays for many years, as well as stalwarts such as Bugs Bunny and Tweety and the Weekend Special. NBC did not have such luck.

NBC should have picked up the Uncanny X-Men cartoon in '89 instead of The Karate Kid. Heck, they should've picked up both and cut back the final season of Smurfs down to a half hour.

The biggest hit that NBC had post-Chipmunks and Smurfs was I believe, Saved by the Bell. So it was pretty much a no brainer that NBC felt that needed to fill their Saturday morning line-up w/ a bunch of Saved by the Bell clones like California Dreams, Hang Time, and City Guys

I know that there was a pilot that Marvel made about the X-Men called "Pryde of the X-Men". The pilot involved Kitty Pryde joining the X-Men (made up of Professor Xavier, Cyclops, an Australian accented Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus, and Dazzler), who battled the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants/Terrorists (made up of Magneto, Juggernaut, Pyro, White Queen, Toad, and Blob). It ultimately aired on syndication on The Marvel Action Universe in the time-slot for the animated RoboCop series.

I thought that the animation in the pilot was excellent. However, it did go a tad bit on the campy side (the much of the voice work felt overcooked) and tried to do too much in 22 minutes (when you take out the commercials).

I wouldn't be surprised if NBC choose the The Karate Kid over X-Men because it tied in w/ the third live-action movie from that year. I guess NBC felt like a natural enough of a fit since they had previously aired Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends, which featured guest appearances from the X-Men. I heard that one of the reasons why the pilot wasn't picked up for the networks is because they didn't really understand the concept. Like for example, one executive didn't understand why "that Wolverine guy was so mean".

Yong Fang

12-21-2013, 05:19 AM

I have a story similar to the Heidi game......

I forgot exactly what year, but this was the late 1990's. (January of 1998 according to Wikipedia) It was the AFC championship game with John Elway's Broncos playing somebody. If Elway won the game, he went to the Super Bowl (who won that game too.) This I am pretty sure was the first Super Bowl he finally won, being he was 38 and at the end of his career.

I lived in Memphis at the time, and there was a storm in our area. Nothing that severe, but a storm none the less. Now, we are in what we might call "tornado alley"....but we had storms like this often.

During the game, the local affiliate cut in for a weather report. An in depth weather report with the weatherman explaining that there was "severe" weather in the area, an area that covered about 200 miles of the viewing area of the affiliate. The channel would cut in, and the weather guy would talk for 10 minutes or so, which made a lot of viewers like myself aggrevated. I to mad and tried to call the station to put the damn game back on. It was busy, because everyone else was doing the same thing.

The weatherman after cutting in for the third damn time became flustered at the viewers for not wanting to listen to him and wanting to watch the game. What was worse was that this guy had to work on a Sunday and years later reading about him online found out he was a "born again Christian".....who again had to work on a Sunday.

I think finally, there was a crawl on the bottom of the screen because we just flooded the station with calls. There were no tornadoes that day and there wasn't much that could have been done if there was one. There is a word that was invented from this called a "weathergasm", when local TV went nuts and cut into programming for a storm a hundred miles away from the city.

irehtman

12-21-2013, 09:56 AM

The biggest hit that NBC had post-Chipmunks and Smurfs was I believe, Saved by the Bell. So it was pretty much a no brainer that NBC felt that needed to fill their Saturday morning line-up w/ a bunch of Saved by the Bell clones like California Dreams, Hang Time, and City Guys

I know that there was a pilot that Marvel made about the X-Men called "Pryde of the X-Men". The pilot involved Kitty Pryde joining the X-Men (made up of Professor Xavier, Cyclops, an Australian accented Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus, and Dazzler), who battled the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants/Terrorists (made up of Magneto, Juggernaut, Pyro, White Queen, Toad, and Blob). It ultimately aired on syndication on The Marvel Action Universe in the time-slot for the animated RoboCop series.

I thought that the animation in the pilot was excellent. However, it did go a tad bit on the campy side (the much of the voice work felt overcooked) and tried to do too much in 22 minutes (when you take out the commercials).

I wouldn't be surprised if NBC choose the The Karate Kid over X-Men because it tied in w/ the third live-action movie from that year. I guess NBC felt like a natural enough of a fit since they had previously aired Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends, which featured guest appearances from the X-Men. I heard that one of the reasons why the pilot wasn't picked up for the networks is because they didn't really understand the concept. Like for example, one executive didn't understand why "that Wolverine guy was so mean".

I quit being a "Saved By The Bell" fan because of that 20th Anniversary Reunion incident and that causes a never-ending brawl fight between normal fans and mental disabled fans. The original class of SBTB was to badly difficultly made to include the Screech character in it and and that is really very too dangerous for Dustin Diamond to be in it.

There's no problem about Hang Time at all, that show did better than the other TNBC Saturday Morning lineup. I am still now a Hang Time fan, no offense.

factsoflife

12-21-2013, 08:20 PM

I quit being a "Saved By The Bell" fan because of that 20th Anniversary Reunion incident and that causes a never-ending brawl fight between normal fans and mental disabled fans. The original class of SBTB was to badly difficultly made to include the Screech character in it and and that is really very too dangerous for Dustin Diamond to be in it.

What exactly happened? I have no idea what you mean.

irehtman

12-21-2013, 08:44 PM

What exactly happened? I have no idea what you mean.

They gave Dustin diamond the nerd role to be applied to the difficult made original class, but after the original class ended, Dustin Diamond insisted to quit playing that nerd role and play something better because the nerd role made Dustin both unpopular and mentally ill. They think he portrayed well, but Dustin, the original class fans and the strict TV critics abhorred the nerd role too strongly, especially when it is applied to the difficult-made original class.

But the problem is that the nerd role needs complete teen popularity with better respect and the producers insist dustin not to let go of the nerd role yet. So then, after the college years ended for one season, they brought Dustin and his nerd role back and included in the new class, so he and his nerd role will not only bring back a few old fans of the original class, but to receive complete teen popularity and better respect with the new class.

Along the way, the new class lines encountered a very bad breakdown. Even if you think the nerd role became too annoying, he was supposed to be more lively entertaining and realistic. Although, they should not have made the nerd role too strongly imbalanced along the end of the new class series. In the meantime, the new class students, appearing in season six and seven, were badly turned down and writers screwed all the lines up during those seasons for no reason at all.

At the series finale, there something badly wrong. They did not mention the future of the nerd's role, but instead making him the new principal of Bayside High and he was the only character never left Bayside for no reason at all. they should added an eighth season, so the nerd role can depart properly from Bayside and Richard Belding returns to Bayside as principal from where he left off.

But after the new class series ended, it recieved too much bad publicity and it never brought back on air at all around the planet. The worst thing is that during the SBTB 20th Anniversary reunion, all the original class members returned and they excluded Dustin diamond because of a bad relationship for no reason at all. That type of exclusion on Dustin diamond made him worse and it caused a never-ending brawl fight between both normal fans and mental disabled fans of the SBTB original class. right now, the SBTB original class is no longer airing in public anymore due to what's happening right now.

I know this is bad and very complicated to explain and that's the reason why many SBTB fans, including me, had to quit watching SBTB original class immediately and never watch SBTB original ever again.

factsoflife

12-23-2013, 10:34 PM

They gave Dustin diamond the nerd role to be applied to the difficult made original class, but after the original class ended, Dustin Diamond insisted to quit playing that nerd role and play something better because the nerd role made Dustin both unpopular and mentally ill. They think he portrayed well, but Dustin, the original class fans and the strict TV critics abhorred the nerd role too strongly, especially when it is applied to the difficult-made original class.

But the problem is that the nerd role needs complete teen popularity with better respect and the producers insist dustin not to let go of the nerd role yet. So then, after the college years ended for one season, they brought Dustin and his nerd role back and included in the new class, so he and his nerd role will not only bring back a few old fans of the original class, but to receive complete teen popularity and better respect with the new class.

Along the way, the new class lines encountered a very bad breakdown. Even if you think the nerd role became too annoying, he was supposed to be more lively entertaining and realistic. Although, they should not have made the nerd role too strongly imbalanced along the end of the new class series. In the meantime, the new class students, appearing in season six and seven, were badly turned down and writers screwed all the lines up during those seasons for no reason at all.

At the series finale, there something badly wrong. They did not mention the future of the nerd's role, but instead making him the new principal of Bayside High and he was the only character never left Bayside for no reason at all. they should added an eighth season, so the nerd role can depart properly from Bayside and Richard Belding returns to Bayside as principal from where he left off.

But after the new class series ended, it recieved too much bad publicity and it never brought back on air at all around the planet. The worst thing is that during the SBTB 20th Anniversary reunion, all the original class members returned and they excluded Dustin diamond because of a bad relationship for no reason at all. That type of exclusion on Dustin diamond made him worse and it caused a never-ending brawl fight between both normal fans and mental disabled fans of the SBTB original class. right now, the SBTB original class is no longer airing in public anymore due to what's happening right now.

I know this is bad and very complicated to explain and that's the reason why many SBTB fans, including me, had to quit watching SBTB original class immediately and never watch SBTB original ever again.

I am now more confused than ever.. because SBTB continues to air til this day on various cable stations like MTV2.

irehtman

12-24-2013, 07:57 AM

I am now more confused than ever.. because SBTB continues to air til this day on various cable stations like MTV2.

MTV2 is considered a private network and nobody watches SBTB anymore because right after that SBTB original class 20th Anniversary Reunion incident, the brawl between both normal fans and mental disabled fans never ends. SBTB original class will be forever put out of public.

Frenky

12-29-2013, 07:14 AM

ThomasE

12-29-2013, 08:33 PM

MTV2 is considered a private network and nobody watches SBTB anymore because right after that SBTB original class 20th Anniversary Reunion incident, the brawl between both normal fans and mental disabled fans never ends. SBTB original class will be forever put out of public.

What proof do you have that SBTB will be put out of the public? The show has been in broadcast for 25 years. Not everyone feels that way. Heck, my little sister discovered the show two years ago and loves it. She thinks that its one of the best shows there is. People's opinions will differ. What you are saying isn't necessarily factual.

factsoflife

12-30-2013, 02:14 AM

What proof do you have that SBTB will be put out of the public? The show has been in broadcast for 25 years. Not everyone feels that way. Heck, my little sister discovered the show two years ago and loves it. She thinks that its one of the best shows there is. People's opinions will differ. What you are saying isn't necessarily factual.

I wasn't even aware that there was any sort of issue at all with any of the cast, aside from some of them resenting things Dustin said in his book... Beyond that, I had no idea there was any issue at all...

irehtman

12-30-2013, 12:47 PM

I wasn't even aware that there was any sort of issue at all with any of the cast, aside from some of them resenting things Dustin said in his book... Beyond that, I had no idea there was any issue at all...

The SBTB Original Class cannot end the fight between both normal fans and mental disabled fans watching the original class, especially right after the 20th Anniversary Reunion incident. The original class should be entertaining with the Screech character in it, unfortunately, they made too difficult for the Screech character to get involved. The Screech role made Dustin Diamond too unpopular and mentally ill, even if he portrayed it well.

This show is no longer put in public anymore, period.

ThomasE

12-30-2013, 01:42 PM

Mentally disabled fans? Your opinion is what you are entitled to but there is no concrete proof that there are further issues besides the fabrications Dustin's ghost writer put in that book. The show is still in the public today. Its not on its widespread popularity train like it was yesteryear but its still getting airplay and known to another generation of viewers. I would not call Dustin mentally ill either. I don't care for his actions but I would not say he is mentally ill. Now, are you able to show proof that he is mentally ill or is that a strong opinion? If you prove it, then I'll be quick to apologize but if not, it would be better if you stated that is what you believe. Some members will be like "He's mentally ill?" or "I didn't know that he mentally unstable". So, just be mindful. That's all I'm trying to say. Other than that, we're gooooolden. LOL.

Sophia's Wrinkles

12-30-2013, 02:10 PM

irehtman, you make no sense whatsoever. What are you even trying to say?

ThomasE

12-30-2013, 02:17 PM

Wrinkles, I wish that I could understand better I don't. I'm confused. LOL.

irehtman

12-30-2013, 02:24 PM

irehtman, you make no sense whatsoever. What are you even trying you say?

The mental disabled fans do not like the original class because the original class was made too difficult and they included the Screech role in it at the same time.

But it turns out that anything difficult can offend the minds any mental disabled person in a rotten way and mental disabled person can become more warlike.

Mental disabled fans were trying to support Dustin Diamond with respect and, at the same time, help the Screech role gain better respect from the new class.

I know this sounds out of control, but this reasonable, unfortunately!

irehtman

12-30-2013, 02:25 PM

Don't even think about ignoring on what I am trying to say, ThomasE.

ThomasE

12-30-2013, 02:49 PM

Don't even think about ignoring on what I am trying to say, ThomasE.

Your details have no hard backing up. Plus, its a little hard to understand what you are trying to say. It's ok to have an opinion but you know that all will not agree especially if its jut theoretical. It also sounds like you are judging the tastes of the viewing public. It still has an audience. If it didn't then it would not be broadcast on MTV2 and streamed on Netflix. The original class was not made too difficult. Sorry but it wasn't.

irehtman

12-30-2013, 07:29 PM

If you think the original class was not made difficult, then the Screech character should be included, otherwise, Screech should excluded.

ThomasE

12-30-2013, 08:13 PM

Wait! Are you talking about the original cast members being difficult?

irehtman

12-31-2013, 10:16 AM

Either the original class was made too difficult or the original cast members were considered too difficult on Dustin Diamond/Screech Powers.

irehtman

01-07-2014, 07:21 AM

MTV2 is one of less-publicized networks in television, and i will never repeat this again, this original class will be put in MTV2 network forever right after the 20th anniversary reunion incident of the original class and the never-ending brawl between normal fans and mental disabled fans.

The normal fans were supporting zack, slater, Kelly, Jessie and lisa, while the mental disabled fans were supporting screech.

I used to be a fan of all characters in both original and new classes, but now this brawl never ends and I had to insist to retire from watching all Sbtb classes, including this original Sbtb one!

mr awesome

01-07-2014, 12:08 PM

factsoflife

01-07-2014, 06:47 PM

Anyone read Warren Littlefield's book, I was putting in time at B&N and came across it. Carsey-Werner offered Roseanne to Tartikoff, right off the heels of their success with The Cosby Show but he didn't care for her act. Roseanne and Louie Anderson both performed that night, BT kinda liked LA though.

Yes, I have Warrren's book, it was a good read. an easy read. he also said that when casting Mad About You, the role of Jamie had two finalists; Helen Hunt, who obviously got the role, and Terri Hatcher, who auditioned for and was a network favorite. But it was obvious when Helen and Paul were on-camera together that they sparked in a way he didn't with Terri. A year later, Terri got cast on Lois & Clark.

Mace Dolex

01-07-2014, 06:53 PM

When they cancelled the original V-The Series, Misfits Of Science and of course Manimal.

irehtman

01-11-2014, 04:56 PM

JMFabiano524

01-11-2014, 05:05 PM

TMC

01-12-2014, 04:28 AM

One more thing, I warned you not to bring the Sbtb original class back to public, otherwise the brawl between the normal fans and the mental disabled fans of the sbtb original class will return and never end right away.

I am now the retired fan of Sbtb on all classes.

I'm afraid that this is starting to go a bit astray. Personally on the list of worst decisions that NBC has ever made, anything SBTB related (when compared to the whole Jeff Zucker era, the XFL, the "Heidi Game", the Conan O'Brien/Jay Leno Tonight Show fiasco, and the 1979-81 period for instance) is way, way down on the totem-pole.

TMC

01-12-2014, 04:34 AM

Every network has its own mistakes, so let's start with NBC:

- Roseanne (ABC rejected The Cosby Show which is probably the biggest mistake in history of television), show was number 1 and one of the highest rated shows in early to mid 90s when NBC once again fell to number 3

- Star Trek: TNG, it's still most successful scripted hit in syndication although CBS and ABC also rejected TNG while FOX could only commit to 13 episodes

- CSI, first offered to FOX, then to NBC and ABC before landing on CBS

- Baywatch, also big hit in syndication.

Leaving A Different World on Thursday 8:30pm, this show was lead-in dependent as proven when Cosby ended, LA Law on Thursday 10pm until its very end (it was never top10 show), also Night Court aired too long behind Cheers (4 years).

Miami Vice against Dallas, NBC should have waited another year before moving it to 9pm.

NBC should have left Frasier on Thursday 9pm at least until February '95 when Friends took that slot and that's because ABC moved Home Improvement to Tuesday.

NBC's :30pm comedies in 90s - Suddenly Susan, The Single Guy, Caroline in the City. 3rd Rock from the Sun and Just Shoot Me! had the most potential, but biggest NBC's problem was not finding replacements for Seinfeld and Friends, W&G was also lead-in dependent.

Cheers wasn't on air for too long, it helped to launch Seinfeld

Personally, the mishandling cancellation of the original Star Trek (partially, to protect the now "deader than disco" Laugh In) was a far worst NBC related move than not picking up TNG. What's worse is that around the same time that Star Trek: TOS was taken off the air for good (the reason why it got a third season was because NBC's then parent company RCA, at the time held the patent to color televisions, which was a key reason for why people wanted to watch Star Trek in the first place), the ratings system was changed. What this means is that instead of simply measuring in total viewers, they also measured in demographics, for which Star Trek was hugely successful in.

TMC

01-12-2014, 04:42 AM

Going back to the subject of Conan O'Brien on The Tonight Show, one thing that really annoys me is that how O'Brien pretty much had to uproot his staff and family from New York (where he did his first NBC show) to Los Angeles. What's annoying about this is that Jimmy Fallon, when he will take over The Tonight Show come February 2014 will get to say in New York. Therefore, it was in hindsight, very pointless to make Conan O'Brien go across the country in the first place.

Personally, NBC should have it's two weekday late night shows on both coasts (one in New York and one in LA). Thus, I'm not entirely comfortable w/ the idea of having the new Late Night show w/ Seth Meyers be in New York also. You run the risk of diluting the guest pool so to speak by having everything in one location at once.

I can kind of understand why NBC feels that they need to move Jimmy Fallon into The Tonight Show spot as soon as possible. They more or less, feel that they have to appeal to the youth demographic, would would otherwise go to Jimmy Kimmel at the same time on ABC. The problem w/ this is that the Tonight Show brand or whatever you want to call it has been seriously diluted or tarnished because of the whole Leno to O'Brien to Leno again do hickey. Plus, the same audience that Fallon and Kimmel has to compete w/ also pretty much, has to compete w/ Conan O'Brien, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert on Comedy Central, and even Arsenio Hall (the second time around), and Chelsea Handler on E!

TMC

01-12-2014, 04:44 AM

Frenky

01-14-2014, 09:12 AM

Personally, the mishandling cancellation of the original Star Trek (partially, to protect the now "deader than disco" Laugh In) was a far worst NBC related move than not picking up TNG. What's worse is that around the same time that Star Trek: TOS was taken off the air for good (the reason why it got a third season was because NBC's then parent company RCA, at the time held the patent to color televisions, which was a key reason for why people wanted to watch Star Trek in the first place), the ratings system was changed. What this means is that instead of simply measuring in total viewers, they also measured in demographics, for which Star Trek was hugely successful in.

Something about ST demographics from TV obscurities:

In reality, Star Trek‘s young adult audience wasn’t any larger than the ABC and CBS programs it competed with. According to Television Magazine, the four episodes broadcast between October 27th and November 17th, 1966 averaged 8,630,000 viewers in the 18-to-49 age group, making up 43% of the show’s total audience. By comparison, during the same period ABC’s Bewitched (which aired opposite Star Trek from 9:30-10PM) averaged 10,210,000 young adult viewers or 37% of the total audience.

TMC

01-16-2014, 04:46 AM

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2619531-today/page-509

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/2619531-today/page-509#entry16237642

Quote
I seriously do not understand the thinking behind the decision to add Tamron to the 3rd hour.

I suspect it's something they didn't necessarily want to do. I think their primary motivation is that they feel they absolutely must keep Tamron for MSNBC, which is losing anchors left and right. And there was no way Tamron would renew her MSNBC contract without some guarantee that she'd get a more prominent role on NBC. So they dangle that 3rd hour of Today for her.

NBC has always had a bit of problem with that- they just can't bring themselves to lose particular people, so they dangle things out there without considering the long-term consequences. It happened with Leno-Conan, with Ann Curry, and now with Tamron.

TMC

01-16-2014, 04:56 AM

Going back to the subject of Conan O'Brien on The Tonight Show, one thing that really annoys me is that how O'Brien pretty much had to uproot his staff and family from New York (where he did his first NBC show) to Los Angeles. What's annoying about this is that Jimmy Fallon, when he will take over The Tonight Show come February 2014 will get to say in New York. Therefore, it was in hindsight, very pointless to make Conan O'Brien go across the country in the first place.

Personally, NBC should have it's two weekday late night shows on both coasts (one in New York and one in LA). Thus, I'm not entirely comfortable w/ the idea of having the new Late Night show w/ Seth Meyers be in New York also. You run the risk of diluting the guest pool so to speak by having everything in one location at once.

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3034170-the-tonight-show-with-jay-leno/page-102

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3034170-the-tonight-show-with-jay-leno/page-102#entry15920073

OK, here it is. They want Fallon in this spot, because he's younger and uses Twitter and has the oh-so-cool Roots. And I do think Roots is the best ever late night band.

But, who watches late night TV? Half of the older people watch it live. The other half DVR it because they fall asleep before 11:30. I say this as from personal experience. :)

I used to think late night TV would never get a big audience in the 24-30 year-old range. I would like now to think maybe with the prevalence of DVR's, the younger audience will take the time to DVR late night TV and watch it the next day, or whenever.

But whether the young watch it or not, and even if NBC thinks they need a new direction, Jay Leno is far more superior to Fallon. And I love Fallon, I really do. It's just that Leno is so much better at sitting down with people. And at the end of the day, that's really the gist of the show.

But, I fear the day of quality rapport between a host and a guest is soon to deteriorate into an hour of employee-written twitter feeds, game-show reenactments and nothing more than reality show nonsense.

TMC

01-16-2014, 05:05 AM

Didn't Conan O'Brien make NBC put a clause in his last contract extension that we would eventually be "promoted" to The Tonight Show in a certain amount of years? Also, Conan and/or his lawyers should've put in a clause in his contract that NBC couldn't move his Tonight Show out of the 11:35 PM spot. So in a sense, Conan kind of brought it on to himself.

I'm not saying that Jay Leno is totally innocent in all of this. Personally, Leno should've had the foresight to know that going five shows a week in prime time was going to in the long run, actually hurt NBC more than help. Leno should've stepped aside and go to another channel/network if he felt that he wasn't entirely finished. The whole thing made it look like he was going Jeff Zucker (who is the main person we should blame for this fiasco not Conan or Jay) and company a favor.

NBC, I think was also afraid of having another situation like they did when David Letterman moved to CBS after being passed over for The Tonight Show in favor of Jay Leno after Johnny Carson (who preferred Letterman over Leno as his successor) retired in 1992.

They basically didn't want Conan O'Brien to move to rival network (which eventually happened anyway) but because Jay Leno was still a big ratings winner for NBC and of course, NBC didn't want him to go to a rival network too, they wanted to keep him happy so to speak too. Also, since Jeff Zucker was pretty much a "manage by margins" type of executive, he figured to just "kill two birds w/ one stone" and have Leno on five nights a week instead of more expensive scripted programming.

noveel

01-16-2014, 08:30 PM

NBC I think was also afraid of having another situation like they did when David Letterman moved to CBS after being passed over for The Tonight Show in favor of Jay Leno after Johnny Carson (who preferred Letterman over Leno as his successor) retired in 1992.

They basically didn't want Conan O'Brien to move to rival network (which eventually happened anyway) but because Jay Leno was still a big ratings winner for NBC and of course, NBC didn't want him to go to a rival network too, they wanted to keep him happy so to speak too. Also, since Jeff Zucker was pretty much a "manage by margins" type of executive, he figured to just "kill two birds w/ one stone" and have Leno on five nights a week instead of more expensive scripted programming.

When they promised Conan the Tonight Show, they assumed Leno would retire

TMC

02-02-2014, 04:37 AM

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3034170-the-tonight-show-with-jay-leno/page-102

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3180257-late-night-with-jimmy-fallon/page-71#entry16274961

That Full House skit and many of his other bits like the rap montages etc. are why I don't think he will be successful at The Tonight Show, unless the audience for show is primarily around his age bracket. Much of Fallon's comedy plays to those whose pop cultural references are embedded in the '80s and '90s. A number of my family members in their 50s and up watch Leno, and they wouldn't have a clue about something like Full House or the History of Rap, and without the references its not entertaining.

And related, my 60 something father told me that he saw Mitt Romney's slow jam the news segment on Meet the Press and he didn't get why that was "supposed to be funny". The whole concept just didn't resonate with him. I am sure he will be watching Letterman once Fallon takes over.

I do hope Fallon gets the audience he needs in this new venture.

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3180257-late-night-with-jimmy-fallon/page-71#entry16278914

I don't think NBC cares if he loses the older demo. The reason they are replacing Leno is so they can put a younger guy in there who will attract the younger demo, because that's what advertisers value.

Jamey Greek

04-07-2014, 02:57 AM

Turning Dateline into a freaking reality show trying to catch predators!

Expanding The a Today Show to three hours!

Jamey Greek

04-07-2014, 03:04 AM

Canceling The Michael J. Fox Show.

Jamey Greek

04-07-2014, 03:07 AM

NBC canceling Twenty One in 2000.

Jamey Greek

04-07-2014, 03:16 AM

When Pat Sajak left Daytime Wheel of Fortune to host his short-lived late night talk show, Jimmy Connors auditioned for Wheel. He knew the game inside and out and watched the show every day. But NBC stepped in and thought he'd be better off in their sports department. They should hsve given him a chance to host Wheel. Jimmy watched the show, unlike Rolf Be irschke who only watched Wheel in snippets.

Jamey Greek

04-07-2014, 03:29 AM

Canceling Hollywood Squares, High Rollers, and Chain Reaction for David Letterman and speaking of David Letterman passing him over for The Tonight Show.

Canceling $ale of the century and Super Password for Generations.

Jamey Greek

04-07-2014, 03:31 AM

What if NBC had never introduced their current six-feather peacock logo in 1986, and stuck with the 11-feather peacock (with or without the abstract N behind it) even today?

I agree

Jamey Greek

04-07-2014, 03:47 AM

Moving Family Ties from Thursday Nights to Sunday Nights.

TMC

04-07-2014, 03:48 AM

http://forums.tvnewstalk.net/index.php?/topic/13622-could-nbc-collapse-altogether/page-2#entry105604

I think part of that is that when NBC screws things up, they do so on an epic level. Fred Silverman's tenure at NBC generated such classics as "Supertrain" and "Pink Lady" and a promotional campaign so overbearing that the music company produced its own version mocking NBC. Then we had Saturday Night Live's 1980-81 season under Jean Doumanian, which culminated in an F-bomb being used on the air and a 1981 regime change to Dick Ebersol. Oh, and NBC had the 1980 summer Olympics that we boycotted. Then there's Deborah Norville on Today, the first late night war between Letterman and Leno, and of course the more recent mishaps with "Today" and "Tonight".

CBS, ABC, and Fox have all suffered worse in the past, but NBC just... when they screw up, they screw the hell up.

http://forums.tvnewstalk.net/index.php?/topic/13622-could-nbc-collapse-altogether/page-4#entry105958

I do think that NBC has come the closest to "disappearing" with their 1980-81 season, and the last days of Jeff Zucker and his brilliant idea of putting Jay Leno on five days a week. Actually, with the rise of "American Idol" and the overexposure of "Millionaire", ABC was the first of the big 3 networks to slip into 4th. NBC last year, was the first to slip into 5th (for February sweeps).

irehtman

04-07-2014, 06:51 AM

Another mistake would be if they discontinued Community in the wrong time, no matter how bad the ratings are or not.

bmasters9

04-07-2014, 08:58 AM

Canceling $ale of the century and Super Password for Generations.

At least $ale went out on top: the last WBMG for $6000 was won, IINM.

Jamey Greek

04-07-2014, 01:36 PM

Putting Let's Make a Deal 2003 on Tuesday Nights against American Idol.

icecream

04-07-2014, 01:42 PM

Canceling The Michael J. Fox Show.I wouldn't consider that a mistake. It had fallen to 0.6 a few times, that's CW territory. Plus it was a big disappointment creatively, nowhere near the level of Family Ties or even Spin City.

James28

04-10-2014, 05:05 AM

During the 1961-62 season, Wagon Train was the most-watched show on American broadcast television. The following year (1962-63), Wagon Train moved to ABC, and its rank fell to 25th. Is there any reasoning why WT moved from NBC to ABC?

mets82

04-10-2014, 02:31 PM

First off, I should've replied to this thread sooner. This is really good. I read a couple of them about how the XFL and the Jay Leno Show were mistakes. Let me take these two:

XFL-There was a lot of hype for this by WWE but I dont think you could blame NBC. The quality of the XFL wasnt there and critics panned it and called it trash BEFORE the first snap of the first game. I also think WWE made a mistake by trying to knock the NFL. No way you could do that back in 2001 or 1991. The NFL is just too powerful.

Jay Leno Show-Believe it or not, I might be the only person who thought it was a decent idea. I say that because you werent giving this slot to some rookie. I mean Jay had hosted the Tonight Show for 17 yrs. And yes, Leno is funny. I would've watched more of him had he not been opposite Letterman. Be careful, what you replace Leno's show with. I mean at least its Leno a proven commodity. Would you want another lousy reality show in his slot that will probably get cancelled after 3 episodes?

To me, the biggest mistakes were the fact that NBC didn't plan for the future. I mean first, take your sports. You lose MLB, NFL and the NBA within 4 yrs. Those were huge blows.
Second, what about there shows? I mean shows like ER, Will and Grace, Frasier, Friends etc. were not going to be on forever. When those shows were ending, they should've been introducing new shows and build for the future but they didnt and paid the price for it.

factsoflife

04-10-2014, 11:06 PM

Second, what about there shows? I mean shows like ER, Will and Grace, Frasier, Friends etc. were not going to be on forever. When those shows were ending, they should've been introducing new shows and build for the future but they didnt and paid the price for it.

They really should have used E.R. to develop a spin-off of some sort... Yeah, there was "Third Watch" which was kinda set in the same universe as E.R., but frankly they should have spun-off one of the major characters into their own series....

They should have also done a Frasier spin-off of some sort...

jehobden

04-17-2014, 06:09 PM

Four more words: GAME SHOW DEATH DAY. AKA the end of Chain Reaction, High Rollers, and Hollywood Squares. Also pulling a Bullseye/Hot Potato on Weakest Link, as the end of the run became Celebrity Weakest Link and nothing but.

Hiring Jon Bauman to host the Hollywood Squares portion of the Match Game/Hollywood Squares Hour. Now, hear me out. I didn't think Jon was as awful as others do. However, it was a curious choice, moreso when Mark Goodson was basically throwing a rookie into one of the most iconic formats in game show history. Plus it's not like Peter Marshall had something to do at the time, with his Fantasy just being cancelled.

2003 Let's Make A Deal. The least said, the better. At least Wayne Brady and CBS have rebuilt the show's reputation and success.

NBC had at least 3 bad game show death days in its history, June 20, 1980 (which you reference above), Sept. 26, 1969 (Personality, Eye Guess, You Don't Say!, and the original Match Game), and Mar. 24, 1989 (Super Password and $ale of the Century). Someone above also mentioned how NBC's losing Let's Make a Deal in 1968 helped lead to the 1969 death day. I loved most of these shows, as much as I've seen them anyway, and was sorry to see them go.

irehtman

05-09-2014, 06:47 PM

Another double mistake recently:

Cancelling both Community and Growing Up Fisher in the wrong time!

I will never return to watch any of the NBC comedies right after both Park And Recreation and About A Boy end right away!

TMC

06-05-2014, 02:12 AM

http://flavorwire.com/460737/the-all-time-worst-nbc-promo-photos?

Here are some of the Peacock’s worst-ever promo photos.
Read more at http://www.hitfix.com/tv-tattle#IOyAiHhwXmF2TBcJ.99

king of comedy

06-05-2014, 06:42 AM

They all look terrible.

mets82

06-05-2014, 02:21 PM

NBC had at least 3 bad game show death days in its history, June 20, 1980 (which you reference above), Sept. 26, 1969 (Personality, Eye Guess, You Don't Say!, and the original Match Game), and Mar. 24, 1989 (Super Password and $ale of the Century). Someone above also mentioned how NBC's losing Let's Make a Deal in 1968 helped lead to the 1969 death day. I loved most of these shows, as much as I've seen them anyway, and was sorry to see them go.

I didnt know about this. Is there any more info. about this because I'd like to know? This almost seems like the Rural Purge that I mentioned a while back.

To me, the 2 I like that are mentioned above is Super Password and Match Game. I've never seen the other ones.

bmasters9

06-05-2014, 03:39 PM

I didnt know about this. Is there any more info. about this because I'd like to know? This almost seems like the Rural Purge that I mentioned a while back.

To me, the 2 I like that are mentioned above is Super Password and Match Game. I've never seen the other ones.

$ale first had 65 of its latter-day daytime episodes on GSN when the reruns started in 2013. Then late last year (Nov. 2013 to the present), the first 65 or so shows of the syndicated show started running. They've been through about 3 or 4 times, IINM.

James28

02-18-2015, 07:27 PM

A reason why all of the new fall series that were introduced on NBC in the fall of 1975 and 1983 were cancelled and failed to earn a second year was probably because a significant number of the new fall series that the new fall series that were introduced during the previous year (1974 and 1982, respectively) were successful.

Successful Fall 1974 series: Chico and the Man, Police Woman, The Rockford Files, Little House on the Prairie, and (to a lesser extent) Petrocelli, and Movin' On
Fall 1975 series: The Family Holvak, McCoy (part of the Sunday Mystery Movie), The Invisible Man, Joe Forrester, Doctors' Hospital, The Montefuscos, Fay, Ellery Queen, Medical Story.

Successful Fall 1982 series: Cheers, Family Ties, St. Elsewhere, Knight Rider, Remington Steele, Silver Spoons
Fall 1983 series: Boone, Bay City Blues, We Got it Made, Mr. Smith, Jennifer Slept Here, Manimal, For Love and Honor, The Rousters, The Yellow Rose

TMC

02-18-2015, 08:04 PM

Does the recent controversy surrounding Brian Williams count?

jimpickens

02-18-2015, 09:34 PM

king of comedy

02-19-2015, 05:51 PM

Dr. Thong

02-19-2015, 06:29 PM

In 1989, NBC cancelled its' entire fall line up. I don't remember the shows but it did.

Of course you don't remember the shows...they were cancelled.

UMFaninMD

02-20-2015, 04:31 PM

Does the recent controversy surrounding Brian Williams count?
That depends on who you ask. Considering that FOX News' reporters can get away with lying and embellishing stories all the time and they get to stay on the air, it seems unfair for Brian Williams to be forced out for 6 months. But NBC I guess has more at stake and a different type of viewership. That's my opinion anyway.

king of comedy

02-20-2015, 05:42 PM

Of course you don't remember the shows...they were cancelled.
Wait a minute. Now I remembered a couple of them. They were Baywatch( which had a longer life in syndication) a sitcom from Mel Brooks and a spin off character from the movie Jagged Edge which starred Robert Loggia.

Frenky

02-20-2015, 06:38 PM

Dr. Thong

02-20-2015, 09:17 PM

Wait a minute. Now I remembered a couple of them. They were Baywatch( which had a longer life in syndication) a sitcom from Mel Brooks and a spin off character from the movie Jagged Edge which starred Robert Loggia.

My comment was tongue-in-cheek.

JSP

02-21-2015, 09:01 AM

Historically no network probably made more mistakes than NBC. But that's also what makes them the most interesting of the television networks to me.

TMC

02-22-2015, 02:07 AM

yes, that was it's one disastrous season.

Another SNL related screw up directly involving NBC was Don Olhmeyer trying to throw his weight around when he was the president of NBC's West Coast division. For example, it's widely believed that the reason why Norm MacDonald was removed from "Weekend Update" was because Olhmeyer was made that MacDonald was telling jokes about O.J. Simpson's guilt. Olhmeyer of course, was a good friend of Simpson's. Warren Littlefield (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/07/warren-littlefields-nbc-book-friends-er_n_1496379.html), the former president of NBC Entertainment, is no fan of Olhmeyer (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2012/04/ohlmeyer-and-zucker-take-beating-in-littlefield-book-.html)'s either based on his book Top of the Rock: The Rise and Fall of Must See TV (http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/book-review-warren-littlefields-top-of-the-rock-inside-the-rise-and-fall-of-must-see-tv).

TMC

02-22-2015, 02:15 AM

SitcomsOffline

02-22-2015, 01:50 PM

Hiring Jon Bauman to host the Hollywood Squares portion of the Match Game/Hollywood Squares Hour. Now, hear me out. I didn't think Jon was as awful as others do. However, it was a curious choice, moreso when Mark Goodson was basically throwing a rookie into one of the most iconic formats in game show history. Plus it's not like Peter Marshall had something to do at the time, with his Fantasy just being cancelled.

From what I understand, NBC wanted Jon Bauman to try and attract a younger demographic.

CBS (specifically Nina Tassler) had similar pull when Drew Carey was selected to replace Bob Barker on The Price is Right. Barker was not happy about the choice and Carey wasn't going to be FremantleMedia's choice (I think Marc Summers, Doug Davidson and Todd Newton, who all have hosted variations of "Price," were FremantleMedia's top choices).

But yeah, Gene Rayburn was PISSED about it. He felt his co-host should have been an experienced veteran like himself (Peter Marshall).

Interestingly enough, there was almost another Match Game revival with Gene Rayburn in 1985, but when the folks involved found out how old Gene Rayburn was on Entertainment Tonight, they scrapped the plans immediately.

irehtman

02-23-2015, 09:38 AM

Renewing About A Boy, which is self-dilapidating right now.

bmasters9

02-23-2015, 09:52 AM

CBS (specifically Nina Tassler) had similar pull when Drew Carey was selected to replace Bob Barker on The Price is Right. Barker was not happy about the choice and Carey wasn't going to be FremantleMedia's choice (I think Marc Summers, Doug Davidson and Todd Newton, who all have hosted variations of "Price," were FremantleMedia's top choices).

I personally would have liked John O'Hurley myself. He did very well on Feud.

MrCleveland

02-23-2015, 02:28 PM

Historically no network probably made more mistakes than NBC. But that's also what makes them the most interesting of the television networks to me.

To me...the biggest mistake NBC ever did was taping over shows in the 60's to save money!

But will SNL's 40th special be a ratings booster for NBC this year?

mets82

02-26-2015, 06:13 PM

noveel

02-27-2015, 07:10 AM

Yeah but ALL networks did that. They all erased the tapes which is a shame. I dont know if you would count this as a mistake or not but I think NBC not renewing the NFL package in 1994 hurt them, at least from a sports aspect. You cant argue they had some hit shows to balance that, like Friends, Seinfeld and ER.

CBS lost the NFC in 1994, NBC lost the AFC in 1998, both were too cheap to renew the rights, it showed immediately with CBS but it didn't show on NBC for a few years

Frenky

02-27-2015, 08:41 AM

CBS lost the NFC in 1994, NBC lost the AFC in 1998, both were too cheap to renew the rights, it showed immediately with CBS but it didn't show on NBC for a few years

CBS had 1994 Olympics which inflated their average, but after they lost football 60 Minutes never had 30 share again and for some reason Dr. Quinn fell from 20 million to 15 million viewers in 1994.

NBC's troubles began with Seinfeld ending and George Clooney leaving ER.

mets82

02-27-2015, 06:06 PM

Remember Ohlymeher was the same guy who tried to change Monday Night Football back in the year 2000. Remember Dennis Miller?

noveel

02-27-2015, 09:43 PM

CBS had 1994 Olympics which inflated their average, but after they lost football 60 Minutes never had 30 share again and for some reason Dr. Quinn fell from 20 million to 15 million viewers in 1994.

NBC's troubles began with Seinfeld ending and George Clooney leaving ER.

also the kept renewing Friends when they had nothing else

Dr. Thong

02-28-2015, 12:46 PM

also the kept renewing Friends when they had nothing else

They kept renewing Friends because it was a hit.

factsoflife

02-28-2015, 09:33 PM

also the kept renewing Friends when they had nothing else

Um... Friends being renewed was far from a mistake, it was a very good move. In fact Friends was supposed end after its eighth or ninth season; but NBC was very smart in convincing the cast to sign on for a tenth season. That proved to be very lucrative for NBC and for the cast of the show. They were able to get extra money from affiliates who wanted to the extra episodes for their syndication package.

Friends was far and away the most popular sitcom on TV during its run and never was its renewal anything other than smart business.

noveel

02-28-2015, 09:52 PM

They kept renewing Friends because it was a hit.

but they failed to develop any new hits to replace Friends while they kept renewing it

noveel

02-28-2015, 09:54 PM

Um... Friends being renewed was far from a mistake, it was a very good move. In fact Friends was supposed end after its eighth or ninth season; but NBC was very smart in convincing the cast to sign on for a tenth season. That proved to be very lucrative for NBC and for the cast of the show. They were able to get extra money from affiliates who wanted to the extra episodes for their syndication package.

Friends was far and away the most popular sitcom on TV during its run and never was its renewal anything other than smart business.

problem wasn't renewing Friends, problem was they didn't have any new hits when they kept renewing Friends, they had to renew Friends cause they had nothing else, NBC collapsed when Friends ended

treky

03-01-2015, 02:55 AM

canceling QUANTUM LEAP and not giving it a proper finale.

simmytbone

03-01-2015, 03:09 AM

Moving Family Ties from Thursday Nights to Sunday Nights.

You got that right, putting Family Ties on Sunday Nights against CBS's #1 Drama Murder, She Wrote hurt the show and the ratings

factsoflife

03-01-2015, 10:29 AM

problem wasn't renewing Friends, problem was they didn't have any new hits when they kept renewing Friends, they had to renew Friends cause they had nothing else, NBC collapsed when Friends ended

That is true to some extent.

Everything else they had had either already peaked or was about to peak; with few or no newer hits ready to replace them.

Frenky

03-01-2015, 02:05 PM

You got that right, putting Family Ties on Sunday Nights against CBS's #1 Drama Murder, She Wrote hurt the show and the ratings

It needed to move anyway, NBC made mistake keeping A Different World at Thursday 8:30pm and its numbers collapsed once Cosby ended, same thing with Night Court, aired after Cheers then after Unsolved Mysteries which had really good numbers first 4 seasons, but Night Court wasn't strong enough to keep UM numbers or eventually grow from it's lead-in and Wednesday night didn't have any huge hits until Home Improvement.

Another example is Empty Nest, it was GG that kept Saturday night alive.

simmytbone

03-01-2015, 04:22 PM

Speaking of GG, the spin-off called Nurses was a good show when NBC Debut the show in the 91/92 Season and was a Top 40 Show, almost cracked the Top 30, but when the 2nd Season came, NBC made a bonehead move and changed Stephanie Hodge's character of Nurse Sandy Miller from a sweet lovable person to a mean nurse

someone posted on YT that she said in an interview she did not like ''the direction they were taking her character''. they had changed her from being a sarcastic but likable character to a hateful and mean one.

and she got axed

The show revolved around a group of nurses working at the same Miami hospital as Empty Nest's Dr. Harry Weston. Initially, the main characters were strong-willed nurse Annie Roland (Arnetia Walker), sarcastic nurse Sandy Miller (Stephanie Hodge), dim-witted nurse Julie Milbury (Mary Jo Keenen) and Latina nurse Gina Cuevas (Ada Maris) who frequently reminisced about her homeland, the fictional San Pequeño. Also in the cast were arrogant Dr. Hank Kaplan (Kip Gilman), wise-cracking orderly Paco Ortiz (Carlos Lacamara) and flaky nurse Greg Vincent (Jeff Altman). In addition, Florence Stanley had a recurring role during the first season as Dr. Riskin.

Changes were made, however, after the first season. In an effort to boost ratings, David Rasche joined the cast in the second season as Jack Trenton, a slimy white-collar criminal forced to perform community service at the hospital, and in the final season Loni Anderson joined the cast as new hospital administrator Casey McAfee. Other changes included the addition of Markus Flanagan as hunky orderly Luke Fitzgerald for the second season only, the changing of the show's theme song in seasons two and three, having nurse Gina and Dr. Hank Kaplan get married (Gina being pregnant with Dr. Hank's child). Nurse Greg Vincent was also written off after season one.

In the show's final season, Nurse Sandy was gone, and the show's focus moved increasingly from the nurses to Casey McAfee's adjustments in running the hospital under a new HMO, and the antics of Jack Trenton and his sidekick Paco the orderly.

Although ratings improved somewhat, NBC still cancelled the show after its third season.

another problem was that the show changed theme songs every season

once again, another bonehead decision for having a good show, then change its direction and then later cancelling it

Dr. Thong

03-01-2015, 05:26 PM

Um... Friends being renewed was far from a mistake, it was a very good move. In fact Friends was supposed end after its eighth or ninth season; but NBC was very smart in convincing the cast to sign on for a tenth season. That proved to be very lucrative for NBC and for the cast of the show. They were able to get extra money from affiliates who wanted to the extra episodes for their syndication package.

Friends was far and away the most popular sitcom on TV during its run and never was its renewal anything other than smart business.

Yes, NBC did not want to let Friends go. That's why the tenth season was only 17 episodes instead of the usual 24, because they were ready to stop after the ninth season.

Must be nice to have someone beg for you to come back for millions of dollars.

Dr. Thong

03-01-2015, 05:36 PM

problem wasn't renewing Friends, problem was they didn't have any new hits when they kept renewing Friends, they had to renew Friends cause they had nothing else, NBC collapsed when Friends ended

Yep, you have to save for a rainy day, so to speak and they put so much effort into keeping Friends alive that they didn't work on developing the next Friends.

70s show watcher

03-03-2015, 03:25 AM

Speaking of GG, the spin-off called Nurses was a good show when NBC Debut the show in the 91/92 Season and was a Top 40 Show, almost cracked the Top 30, but when the 2nd Season came, NBC made a bonehead move and changed Stephanie Hodge's character of Nurse Sandy Miller from a sweet lovable person to a mean nurse

someone posted on YT that she said in an interview she did not like''the direction they were taking her character''. they had changed her from being a sarcastic but likable character to a hateful and mean one.

and she got axed

The show revolved around a group of nurses working at the same Miami hospital as Empty Nest's Dr. Harry Weston. Initially, the main characters were strong-willed nurse Annie Roland (Arnetia Walker), sarcastic nurse Sandy Miller (Stephanie Hodge), dim-witted nurse Julie Milbury (Mary Jo Keenen) and Latina nurse Gina Cuevas (Ada Maris) who frequently reminisced about her homeland, the fictional San Pequeño. Also in the cast were arrogant Dr. Hank Kaplan (Kip Gilman), wise-cracking orderly Paco Ortiz (Carlos Lacamara) and flaky nurse Greg Vincent (Jeff Altman). In addition, Florence Stanley had a recurring role during the first season as Dr. Riskin.

Changes were made, however, after the first season. In an effort to boost ratings, David Rasche joined the cast in the second season as Jack Trenton, a slimy white-collar criminal forced to perform community service at the hospital, and in the final season Loni Anderson joined the cast as new hospital administrator Casey McAfee. Other changes included the addition of Markus Flanagan as hunky orderly Luke Fitzgerald for the second season only, the changing of the show's theme song in seasons two and three, having nurse Gina and Dr. Hank Kaplan get married (Gina being pregnant with Dr. Hank's child). Nurse Greg Vincent was also written off after season one.

In the show's final season, nurse Sandy was gone, and the show's focus moved increasingly from the nurses to Casey McAfee's adjustments in running the hospital under a new HMO, and the antics of Jack Trenton and his sidekick Paco the orderly.

Although ratings improved somewhat, NBC still cancelled the show after its third season.

another problem was that the show changed theme songs every season

once again, another bonehead decision for having a good show, then change its direction and then later cancelling itI enjoyed nurses too until they brought in loni Anderson but then again I am probably the only wkrp fan who did not watch the show for loni Anderson and did not care about how much screen time that she got one way or the other

mets82

03-03-2015, 04:49 PM

I remember Nurses as well. That show made the mistake that I dont like and thats they changed from season to season. Characters left, music changes, new characters brought in, and the show's dynamic changed. I hate when any series does that.

simmytbone

03-04-2015, 02:28 PM

Yes, after watching maybe one or 2 episodes @ the time, I did NOT care for Loni Anderson on Nurses

Having the Final Season focused on her and cutting Stephanie Hodge who was the JEWEL of the show is what killed Nurses

I mean hey, during the 93/94 Season, when it came to having cast/character changes, it worked with The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air when NBC and the producers hired Daphne Maxwell Reid (Wife of Actor Tim Reid) to replace the fired Janet Hubert as The NEW Aunt Viv and the show moved to the NBC Studios in Burbank, CA and it stayed on the air for 3 more years and Law & Order also went through character changes that season as well when they fired Dann Florek as Captain Donald Cragen (he would eventually return to the spin-off L&O: SVU) and he was replaced by S. Epatha Merkerson best known as Reba the Mail Lady on the CBS Saturday Morning Series Pee-Wee's Playhouse as Lt. Anita Van Buren (who would ended up staying on the show for 17 seasons) and they also fired Richard Brooks as ADA Paul Robinette and he was replaced by Jill Hennessy fresh off from her film Robocop 3 (The Final Chapter of the Robocop Trilogy) and Future Star of NBC's Crossing Jordan as ADA Claire Kincaid and the following season, Sam Waterston joined the cast of Law & Order as EADA Jack McCoy when he replaced Michael Moriarty as Ben Stone and Sam would stay on the show for 16 season

Even though I enjoyed the cast change on Fresh Prince, Law & Order IMO, got boring and bland after Jerry Orbach died, but I will give Fresh Prince and Law & Order from the 90's Credit when they had good writers and they still had Prince focused on Will Smith as well as the other cast of characters (despite the last 2 seasons not having decent ratings against The Nanny when CBS moved the show to Monday Nights)

But not in the case of Nurses when the writers went out of their minds making Loni's character Casey be the focus on the show and not on the other characters

also, during the 91/92 Season, when The Golden Girls were in their Final Season on NBC Saturday Nights, Nurses was in the Top 40 @ #38 in the Nielsen Ratings and it was pretty good but, when NBC and Witt/Thomas/Harris decided to replace Jeff Altman and the late Florence Stanley with Markus Flanagan and David Rasche of Sledge Hammer Fame, the ratings didn't improve and dropped to a #60 (The Golden Girls w/o Bea Arthur moved to CBS and it was renamed The Golden Palace and the show dropped to a #57) and when Loni joined the show, the ratings went up to a #54 and not only that, but the theme was changed and it was composed by Super TV Composer Mike Post

I'm surprised that Loni's Season got higher ratings than Season 2, but Season 1 still was the highest season to date

Had they kept the cast of Season 1 and decent writing and not changed directions of the cast, the writing and the theme music, it would've lasted longer, but as I said before, NBC made another bonehead decision to axe the show after a Good Start in the 1st Season and went downhill afterwards, but also, this Golden Girls Spin-off didn't have the late Brandon Tartikoff to guide them after he stepped down from NBC in 1991 for Paramount

David Rasche was good on abc's Sledge Hammer, but with his 2 year run on Nurses, it didn't help do wonders for the show

Frenky

03-04-2015, 06:58 PM

simmytbone

03-04-2015, 10:35 PM

After 7 seasons I don't think that viewers wanted another GG show, but this time without Bea Arthur.

Even with Tartikoff as president NBC had trouble finding hits in late 80s. I also noticed that Friday night became wasteland back then, same thing would happen with Saturday few yrs later.

True That, also, beginning with the 91/92 Season, NBC would lose their #1 spot to CBS, but during the 94/95 Season, that's when NBC would go back to being #1 thanks in part to the debuting of 2 NEW Series @ the time in Friends and ER (both produced by Warner Bros. Television) and Seinfeld became THE Most Watched Sitcom of the season

also, when The Golden Girls moved to CBS and it was renamed The Golden Palace, IMO, putting the show on Friday Nights against abc's Family Matters (which was still in the Nielsen Ratings Top 30) didn't help the show @ all and it was cancelled after only 1 season when GP was #57

and speaking of the 92/93 Season, NBC moved Quantum Leap to Tuesday Nights against abc's Full House (which was still in the Top 10) and Hangin' with Mr. Cooper (a series from the creator of Full House and the producer of Disney's Smart Guy) and CBS' Rescue 911 and the show was cancelled after 5 seasons and the finale was TERRIBLE

also, another good show that NBC got rid of after the 92/93 Season was Out All Night (a series from the Creators of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air) Starring Famed R&B/Gospel Singer Patti LaBelle (a longtime resident from Philly), Morris Chestnut (Boyz in the Hood), Duane Martin (White Men Can't Jump and Above the Rim) Vivica A. Fox (Soul Food The Movie and Lifetime's The Division) and British Actor Simon O'Brien

LaBelle stars as former singer Chelsea Paige, who opens a Los Angeles urban nightclub aptly named "Club Chelsea". To manage the club, Chelsea hires a recent New York University graduate, Jeff Carswell (Morris Chestnut). Chelsea also rents Jeff and his irresponsible best friend Vidal Thomas (Duane Martin) an apartment in the building she owns. Rounding out the cast is Vivica A. Fox as Chelsea's stylist daughter Charisse Chamberlain, and Simon O'Brien as the group's Scottish neighbor Angus McEwen.

The series is set in the same universe as The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air (which was also created by Andy and Susan Borowitz). In the tenth episode, "The Great Pretender", Karyn Parsons guest stars as her Fresh Prince character Hillary Banks. Out All Night also featured several musical guests including After 7, Mary J. Blige, Bobby Brown, Boyz II Men, Natalie Cole, Johnny Gill, Jodeci, Gladys Knight, Eddie and Gerald Levert, Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch, MC Hammer, TLC, Luther Vandross, and Dionne Warwick.

The series debuted on NBC in the Saturday Night 8:30/7:30 Central Timeslot following Here & Now Starring Malcolm-Jamal Warner of The Cosby Show and Malcolm & Eddie Fame, but after Here & Now got cancelled midway through the season, you guessed it, NBC made another bonehead move and moved the show to Thursday Nights @ 8/7 Central pairing up with A Different World which went back to its normal timeslot of 8:30/7:30 Central and then, NBC moved the show and Rhythm & Blues (a series from the producer of the FOX Series Babes) to Friday Night and that's when NBC cancelled the show

But lucky for Out All Night, the show was seen in reruns on BET and during the 97/98 Season, Patti Guest Starred on the short lived Late Night Talk Show VIBE with SINBAD and SINBAD surprised Patti when the cast of Out All Night Morris Chestnutt, Duane Martin and Vivica A. Fox reunited on the show

Duane and Vivica would reunite on the shot-lived FOX Series Getting Personal Co-Starring Jon Cryer and Elliot Gould during the Spring of 1998

Once again, that was ANOTHER Screwjob by NBC

bh7812

03-05-2015, 01:45 AM

If The Simpsons can go more than 500 episodes, then the answer is yes for more seasons of Happy Days.

I apologize sincerely in advance for addressing a non NBC show in a thread about NBC. I'm not w thread de-railer and don't realky wanna start that now. Having seen all of Happy Days like many others I want to comment on this post and add my perspective.

First though I would like to talk about the actual topic about NBC's biggest mistakes/screw ups. One of the biggest things they did wrong as mentioned earlier in the thread was firing Kevin Reilly. He busted his ass to save a network that at that point frankly had about capsized and fully sunk. Friends, Frasier, ER and Cosby were literally everything. They knew all 4 shows would have to end eventually and just straight up failed to prepare for those shows ending. God knows that were never going to get repeat successes like those but at some level someone higher up should have had the foresight and competency to plan for at least decent replacements that would be viable. If it weren't for Reilly, NBC would have completely died. They have him to thank for any network being left right now at all. He greenlit badly needed hits.

I've made it no surprise that I'm a big fan of Jay Leno, he sent me an autographed picture one Christmas when he didn't have to, replied to a letter my Mom wrote him about me being a fan, granted me tickets to one of his last shows that I made the trip out to LA to see and he acknowledged me very briefly during that taping. Earned himself a lifelong fan and I wish circumstances had allowed us to be real friends. However, putting him on prime time 5 nights a week was a big blunder on NBC's part. I enjoyed the actual show but prime time was not compatible with Jay or his style. Maybe a weekend Saturday show once a week or a few times a month woulda worked better, I don't know. That whole fiasco was straight up Zucker's fault so I don't blame Jay for the shifting around they did. Everything I've read about the late night wars has me confident that fiasco was Zucker's doing. Zucker shouldn't have ever been running any network let alone NBC. He had good results with Today, where he shoulda remained. Not running the whole show. If they'd kept him at Today I think he'd still be there doing relatively well. Zucker basically blew up NBC's ship, spazzed out when the explosion actually happened standing there with zero clue or experience how to fix it. It was left to Littlefield and Reilly to try and salvage. Zucker's ass should have been canned long before he got these brilliant ideas in his head. I have a great deal of respect for Littlefield after reading his book-his only equal is Les Moonves.

The domino effect that led to the Zucker Follies started in the 90's of course. Little minor bad decision after minor bad decision led added up and led to everything that happened. The MJF show was the EXACT right idea, get some of their past big names on board to help salvage the mostly sunk ship. But, it was the absolute wrong vehicle and project for MJF. I believe he should have been given a multi cam with a great premise. THAT would have done well i think. I don't see NBC's fortunes turning around sadly :( some point they're gonna have to admit complete defeat. The Cosby project really was their best hope for the first really huge smash hit in many seasons and now that's gone..not by their fault. But what the hell do you get in its place with that kind of star power and recognition, you know? NBC is screwed now. Really seriously screwed. Was Fallon the right choice for the Tonight show? I don't believe so but at least I like him far more than Conan! I think maybe there NBC should have tried landing Kimmel somehow. He's tonight show material I believe. Fallon not so much but I can't deny he's giving everything to make it work and his retro TV thriwback skits are incredible.

As for Happy Days...I absolutely think ABC was right to give it more seasons past Ron Howard's leaving. How many more was too much is debatable. But, they did try out many different ideas and got to explore quite a few ideas and characters post Richie and Ralph. Most didn't work out but at least they tried. They absolutely should NEVER taken away Fonzie's bike, leather jacket or explored his getting older. They should have left Fonzie exactly how he'd been up to the end. The final season was fantastic I thought and very well done. One of the few times I've actually cried was during the last episide of that show. The scene where Richie thanked Fonzie for everything I couldn't see straight through. It was that emotional and couldn't have had a better scene than that one. It perfectly summed up the whole 11 years and relationship between two friends. That last season was the show saying it had a good long life and was ready to go out with one last hurrah. And it did. That ladt season was actually laying groundwork for a potential 12th year but the show knew it was done and was ok with it. So was the cast. Was there enough there for another season? Yes but it just again felt complete when it ended. Could they have moved it to another network like Diffrent Strokes? Not at that point, no. It is an interesting what if scenario had they done it right after Richie and Ralph left though. Could probably have done it then to see what would happen. Both NBC and CBS, I have a feeling NBC in particular would have given everything to get that show in that situation. Just my two cents on both topics. :)

TMC

03-05-2015, 04:22 AM

I apologize sincerely in advance for addressing a non NBC show in a thread about NBC. I'm not w thread de-railer and don't realky wanna start that now. Having seen all of Happy Days like many others I want to comment on this post and add my perspective.

First though I would like to talk about the actual topic about NBC's biggest mistakes/screw ups. One of the biggest things they did wrong as mentioned earlier in the thread was firing Kevin Reilly. He busted his ass to save a network that at that point frankly had about capsized and fully sunk. Friends, Frasier, ER and Cosby were literally everything. They knew all 4 shows would have to end eventually and just straight up failed to prepare for those shows ending. God knows that were never going to get repeat successes like those but at some level someone higher up should have had the foresight and competency to plan for at least decent replacements that would be viable. If it weren't for Reilly, NBC would have completely died. They have him to thank for any network being left right now at all. He greenlit badly needed hits.

I've made it no surprise that I'm a big fan of Jay Leno, he sent me an autographed picture one Christmas when he didn't have to, replied to a letter my Mom wrote him about me being a fan, granted me tickets to one of his last shows that I made the trip out to LA to see and he acknowledged me very briefly during that taping. Earned himself a lifelong fan and I wish circumstances had allowed us to be real friends. However, putting him on prime time 5 nights a week was a big blunder on NBC's part. I enjoyed the actual show but prime time was not compatible with Jay or his style. Maybe a weekend Saturday show once a week or a few times a month woulda worked better, I don't know. That whole fiasco was straight up Zucker's fault so I don't blame Jay for the shifting around they did. Everything I've read about the late night wars has me confident that fiasco was Zucker's doing. Zucker shouldn't have ever been running any network let alone NBC. He had good results with Today, where he shoulda remained. Not running the whole show. If they'd kept him at Today I think he'd still be there doing relatively well. Zucker basically blew up NBC's ship, spazzed out when the explosion actually happened standing there with zero clue or experience how to fix it. It was left to Littlefield and Reilly to try and salvage. Zucker's ass should have been canned long before he got these brilliant ideas in his head. I have a great deal of respect for Littlefield after reading his book-his only equal is Les Moonves.

The domino effect that led to the Zucker Follies started in the 90's of course. Little minor bad decision after minor bad decision led added up and led to everything that happened. The MJF show was the EXACT right idea, get some of their past big names on board to help salvage the mostly sunk ship. But, it was the absolute wrong vehicle and project for MJF. I believe he should have been given a multi cam with a great premise. THAT would have done well i think. I don't see NBC's fortunes turning around sadly :( some point they're gonna have to admit complete defeat. The Cosby project really was their best hope for the first really huge smash hit in many seasons and now that's gone..not by their fault. But what the hell do you get in its place with that kind of star power and recognition, you know? NBC is screwed now. Really seriously screwed. Was Fallon the right choice for the Tonight show? I don't believe so but at least I like him far more than Conan! I think maybe there NBC should have tried landing Kimmel somehow. He's tonight show material I believe. Fallon not so much but I can't deny he's giving everything to make it work and his retro TV throwback skits are incredible.

As for Happy Days...I absolutely think ABC was right to give it more seasons past Ron Howard's leaving. How many more was too much is debatable. But, they did try out many different ideas and got to explore quite a few ideas and characters post Richie and Ralph. Most didn't work out but at least they tried. They absolutely should NEVER taken away Fonzie's bike, leather jacket or explored his getting older. They should have left Fonzie exactly how he'd been up to the end. The final season was fantastic I thought and very well done. One of the few times I've actually cried was during the last episode of that show. The scene where Richie thanked Fonzie for everything I couldn't see straight through. It was that emotional and couldn't have had a better scene than that one. It perfectly summed up the whole 11 years and relationship between two friends. That last season was the show saying it had a good long life and was ready to go out with one last hurrah. And it did. That last season was actually laying groundwork for a potential 12th year but the show knew it was done and was OK with it. So was the cast. Was there enough there for another season? Yes but it just again felt complete when it ended. Could they have moved it to another network like Diffrent Strokes? Not at that point, no. It is an interesting what if scenario had they done it right after Richie and Ralph left though. Could probably have done it then to see what would happen. Both NBC and CBS, I have a feeling NBC in particular would have given everything to get that show in that situation. Just my two cents on both topics. :)

I just think that older, more conservative folks/Middle America didn't really understand/"get" Conan's weird, random, absurdest brand of comedy. NBC only gave Conan the Tonight Show spot simply because they felt they owed it to him. It's kind of like how NBC was in a way, forced or relegated to giving Ann Curry the Today Show female anchor spot (which they could've done after Katie Couric left) after Meredith Vieria left.

The thing about Jimmy Fallon is that his humor for the lack of a better word, more than often, is edgeless and aims towards the lowest common denominator. Unlike Conan, most people don't have to worry too much about being "challenged" by Fallon's style of comedy. Also, Fallon seems non-threatening enough for NBC, since he's basically, a professional brown noser. Having Lorne Michaels there as a nurturer/buffer (which Conan didn't have when he hosted The Tonight Show) certainly helps.

factsoflife

03-05-2015, 05:08 PM

Wasn't there a NBC sitcom in the 90's about a hair salon? I vaguely remember a sitcom with a hair salon airing around the same time as "A Different World".

bh7812

03-08-2015, 02:32 AM

Yeah there sure was..saw your post earlier today and been trying to remember the name of it..can't right now fir the life of me! I know it'll suddenly just be there later too with no problems remembering it. :p I can see the show in my head just not the titie!

TMC

03-09-2015, 12:50 AM

Yes their news outlet has always been a nest of lying propagandist from falsely saying that handgun ammo coated with Teflon can penetrate body armor and making it public that the police are issued body armor with interviews with criminals who said that they will start aiming for their heads, illegally converting a semi auto AK to full auto just to push for their ban to the more recent editing of the George Zimmerman 911 call to make him appear to be the aggressor and the fact that not only does NBC refuse to hold the news outlet accountable but also backs their agenda so as far as I'm concerned NBC can eat it.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/03/nbc-news-brian-williams-deborah-turness.html?mid=nymag_press

In addition to pitching himself as Jay Leno's Tonight Show replacement to NBC, the NBC News anchor met with CBS boss Les Moonves about succeeding David Letterman, according to New York Magazine, in an in-depth report of NBC News' struggles. Moonves, of course, rejected the offer. New York Magazine says Williams seriously wanted to make the jump to entertainment because he "relished the freedom of improv and expressed frustration at the conventions of network news." Plus, the magazine says Williams "also felt embraced by the entertainment community in a way he never was by NBC's old guard," including predecessor Tom Brokaw.

TMC

03-09-2015, 03:39 AM

It needed to move anyway, NBC made mistake keeping A Different World at Thursday 8:30pm and its numbers collapsed once Cosby ended, same thing with Night Court, aired after Cheers then after Unsolved Mysteries which had really good numbers first 4 seasons, but Night Court wasn't strong enough to keep UM numbers or eventually grow from it's lead-in and Wednesday night didn't have any huge hits until Home Improvement.

Another example is Empty Nest, it was GG that kept Saturday night alive.

NBC also screwed A Different World over during its last year. Basically, they were angry over the decision to devote the sixth season premiere to the then recent Los Angeles riots. NBC proceed to move ADW around the schedule on a whim (w/ hardly any real promotion). What didn't help was that Fox had Martin in the same Thursday night timeslot, which began to compete w/ ADW for the same target audience. After being a top 20 show for it's entire run (and top five rated show for the first four seasons), ADW slipped down to #71 in the Nielsen's.

After January, NBC put ADW on hiatus until May and aired four more episodes (around this time NBC placed it in I believe, the Saturday night and/or Friday night death-slot) after the intended series finale. There were even three more episodes (one that guest-starred Tupac Shakur, one that guest-starred Lena Horne, and finally, one that guest-starred Billy Dee Williams) that didn't air until in syndication.

I'm pretty sure that NBC had little use for ADW anyway since it's parent show, The Cosby Show, had ended its run the season prior. Plus, I'm willing to bet that NBC wanted to get out of the "black sitcom" business since The Cosby Show, Amen, and 227 had ended their respective runs in the past three years. Yeah, they still had The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air but every other sitcom w/ a predominately black cast during the '90s like Out All Night and In the House only lasted about a season on NBC.

simmytbone

03-09-2015, 04:14 AM

Hey, speaking of Loni Anderson and WKRP, here's something for ya:

Now, we know that she was not the answer to the 90's sitcom Nurses, but is it me or has NBC given Loni Anderson and some of the WKRP Cast the Cold Shoulder?

I mean, back in the 80's, Loni had 2 shows on NBC and I thought that they were good

She teamed up with her Close Friend Wonder Woman Lynda Carter as the title role to the NBC Mystery Partners in Crime

Set in San Franciso, CA, Lynda Carter played the role of Carole Stanwyck and Loni Anderson co-starred as Sydney Kovack, two women with little in common except sharing Raymond as an ex-husband. When Raymond winds up murdered, Carole and Sydney set out to find his killer and eventually decide to run the detective agency Raymond has left them. They were assisted in their efforts by Raymond's assistant Harmon Shain (Walter Olkewicz), Raymond's mother Jeanine (Eileen Heckart), and Lt. Ed Vronsky (Leo Rossi)

The series aired on NBC during the 84/85 season and was cancelled after 1 season airing only 13 episodes

The series was produced by Johnny Carson's Production Company Carson Productions in association with Columbia Pictures Television A Unit of the Coca-Cola Company

and after Partners in Crime, Loni reunited with WKRP Creator Hugh Wilson in the short-lived NBC Sitcom Easy Street which aired on NBC during the 86/87 Season

Loni played the role of L.K. McGuire, a onetime showgirl who manages to nab a young wealthy husband, only to have him die and leave her fending for herself against his embittered family, who are out to get L.K. out of the picture and away from her inherited money. Meanwhile, L.K. reconnects with a down-on-his-luck uncle, Bully Stevenson (played by the late Jack Elam) who has been on and off the streets of Los Angeles. L.K. invites him and his pal, Ricardo Williams, (Lee Weaver) to move into her vast mansion, to the consternation of her snobbish inlaws, Eleanor and Quentin Standard (Dana Ivey and James Cromwell). Quentin tends to be a bit more tolerant of L.K. and her family, but Eleanor can't stand them, and does everything possible to get rid of them all. the late Arthur Malet co-stars as Bobby, the McGuire's butler.

The series lasted 1 season and only 22 episodes and was produced by VIACOM Productions

Tim Reid also had bad luck with NBC when he joined the cast of Season 2 of the NBC Sitcom Teachers Only Starring the late Lynn Redgrave and the late Norman Fell of Three's Company Fame and the show was retooled from Season 1

Tim Reid played the role of Teacher Michael Horne, Jean Smart of TV's Designing Women Fame played the role of Mr. Cooper's Secretary Shari, the late Steve Ryan of TV's Arrested Development played the role of Gym Teacher Spud Le Boone and the series also introduced Actress/Comedienne Teresa Ganzel as Lynn's Friend and teacher Samantha Keating

Teresa is best known as Greedy Gretchen on Three's Company, the Tea Time Movie Lady on The Tonight Show with the late Johnny Carson and of course, her many Game Show Appearances and she is also known as the Sweetheart of Pyramid

Teachers Only was produced by Larry Larry Productions producers of Mr. Merlin and Jennifer Slept Here in association with Carson Productions and was Video Taped @ NBC Studios Burbank, CA

also, Richard Sanders who played Les Nessman also didn't get a well deserved respect from NBC when he played the role of School Guidance Counselor Benjamin Beanley in the short lived NBC Series Spencer Starring Chad Lowe and later Ross Harris and the series was later renamed Under One Roof and that, too lasted 1 season during the 84/85 Season

Not counting the Made for TV Movie with Howard Hesseman aka Dr. Johnny Fever and Head of the Class, I guess the only one from WKRP that has had good success with NBC would have to be Frank Bonner alias Herb Tarlek, other than appearing on Saved by the Bell: The New Class and USA High (which aired on USA Network), he has also worked off camera as Director for not only Saved by the Bell: The New Class and USA High, but also, every episode of City Guys Starring Wesley Jonathan of What I Like About You, Scott Whyte and Marcella Lowery of TV's The Cosby Show and The Original Ghostwriter for Pubilc Television's PBS

also, Tim's Wife Daphne Maxwell Reid has also had success on NBC when she played the NEW Aunt Viv on the final 3 seasons of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air when the show moved to the NBC Studios in Burbank, CA which was also the home to The Tonight Show with Jay Leno @ the time

and so, with all the good show as I mentioned cancelled, NBC didn't treat some of the stars of WKRP well especially with Loni Anderson receiving the worst treatment of all back in the 80's

bmasters9

03-09-2015, 05:03 AM

simmytbone

03-09-2015, 10:30 PM

Did not realize that Carson Productions was IAW CPT on that NBC series! That's one for the record books. I've heard of Carson being the sole production company on Amen (1986-90; Stein and Illes Productions joined them for the final season, IIRC), and being with Dick Clark Productions on TV's Bloopers and Practical Jokes, but again, this is something I never knew until now.

Don't forget about Teachers Only, it was co-produced by Larry Larry Productions and Carson Productions

Mace Dolex

03-10-2015, 01:40 AM

After being a top 20 show for it's entire run (and top five rated show for the first four seasons), ADW slipped down to #71 in the Nielsen's.
Wow its hard to believe ADW was in the top 5 rated shows, I guess the Cosby lead-in really did help.

factsoflife

03-10-2015, 03:16 AM

Wasn't there a NBC sitcom in the 90's about a hair salon? I vaguely remember a sitcom with a hair salon airing around the same time as "A Different World".

I found it. It was called New Attitude and aired in 1990. But it wasn't on NBC, it aired on ABC. It starred Sheryl Lee Ralph, who for some reason, I had thought was Vivica A. Fox in my memory. Apparently it aired six episodes on Fridays before getting cancelled.

simmytbone

03-10-2015, 03:34 AM

Well here's another BIG TIME Mess-Up from NBC

RG-Reg Grundy Game Shows

$ale of the Century - AWESOME Show that lasted over 6 years, Jim Perry as always is a TERRIFIC Host, Sally Jillian was a bad choice for hostess, Lee Menning was a Good Hostess, but Summer Bartholomew is an AWESOME Hostess, having the speed round added after the Final Fame Game was a great idea, but when it came to the Bonus Games, the Shopper's Round was THE Best Bonus Game that fit the show

The Winner's Board was pretty good, but it was taken from Concentration where you had to match to win the prize and their were 2 WIN Cards which are also used as Wild Cards meaning that it's an automatic match and if you won 9 days or 9 games in a row, you could either take all the winnings and go home, but if you cameback on your 10th day and lose, you lose everything on the Winner's Board, but if you win 10 days or 10 games in a row, then you won everything on the Winner's Board plus the Cash Bonus of $50,000, but when NBC decided to change their format with the Winner's Big Money Game that's when it got bad

You had to solve 5 of the 6 puzzles in 25 seconds or less and later it was changed to 4 of the 5 puzzles in 20 seconds and it was taken from its sister show SCRABBLE with the SCRABBLE SPRINT Bonus Game where you had to hit the plunger to stop the clock, instead of 2 choices of Envelopes-Pink or Blue, you had 3 choices of Envelopes-Red, Yellow or Blue and instead of letters popping up, there were words that popped up, they have up to 6 words that pops in, (a la Break the Bank '85/'86) and they start @ $5000 on Day 1, $6000 or your 2nd day, $7000 on your 3rd day, $8000 on your 4th day, $9000 on your 5th day and $10,000 on your 6th day, now no matter what happens, if you win 7 days or 7 games in a row, then you play for the automobile and you had to win the Winner's Big Money Game to get the automobile, otherwise you had to retire, but if you win the automobile, then you would come back for your 8th day and try for the Grand Prize of $50,000

Having the Winner's Big Money Game and losing viewers to CBS' Family Feud w/the late Ray Combs caused $ale to be cancelled (on the exact same day Super Password ended after 4 1/2 years and Card Sharks on CBS would be cancelled a week later after nearly 3 1/4 years)

But $ale was and still is an international hit around the word, but Fremantlemedia North America in associaton with 20th Century Fox Television brought back $ale of the Century with Temptation and it was HORRIBLE, but that's another story @ another time

SCRABBLE (80's & '93) - another successful show on NBC that lasted nearly 6 years in the 80's and Chuck Woolery was PERFECT for the show, the Game Play was GREAT, awarding Bonus Cash for Pink & Blue Squares was a great idea, not to mention the SCRABBLE Sprint was a GREAT Bonus Round and winning over $55,000 after 10 games was an AWESOME idea, however, NBC decided to cut back on the Big Money Winnings and the SCRABBLE Sprint had the Bonus Sprint for the Winner of the SCRABBLE Spring Game starting @ $5000 and increased by $1000 each time is not won was not such a good decision, IMO, but there was a moment where a female contestant won $10,000 in the Bonus Sprint with .1 of a second

When NBC brought the show back in '93, they had the same game play, but the set changed and so did the theme music, but also, the Bonus Sprint started @ $1000 and having the Blue & Pink Squares added to the Jackpot was a HORRIBLE Decision, whoever came up with that idea should've gotten the pink slip and please don't get me started on the spelling format, which thankfully didn't last long

another game show that did great, but got cut b/c of big mistakes by NBC

SCATTERGORIES - another Game Show based on a popular Word Game, Dick Clark (who was 63 @ the time) did his usual good job and as always, he was great with celebs just like he did with Pyramid, but the format was rather strange, I mean, it was your usual men vs. women used on another Reg Grundy Game Show Hot Streak

The team in control was given 15 seconds to name up to six items that fit a particular category and started with a specific letter of the alphabet. The team scored a point each time the team gave an acceptable word. However, no player could give two consecutive answers, and no word could be used as part of more than two answers.

After the list was complete or time ran out, the other team could challenge any word they believed to be unacceptable. If challenged, a panel of five jurors voted whether or not the word was acceptable, with the majority vote ruling. If the word was unacceptable, the challenging team scored a point; otherwise the controlling team received an additional point.

Originally, Mr. Clark read the category and then the letter in play for the round and members of each team attempted to buzz-in and provide a word that fit both criteria. The team who won the toss-up scored a point and played the remainder of that half of the round. This was later changed to having the challengers play the first category and letter.

If the team in control had given at least four proper answers, they then were given a chance to earn up to four additional points with the celebrity panel. One at a time the team chose a member of the panel and that celebrity's response was played back to the team. If the celebrity gave an answer that was not on the team's list, they received one point. If the team chose a celebrity that gave an answer matching any of the team's answers, a point was taken away.

In the second round, the above point values were doubled and whoever was ahead at the end of the round won the game and $500.

If both teams were tied at the end of round two, a tiebreaker similar to the one used to determine control at the beginning of the episode was played. The first team member to buzz-in and give an answer ruled valid by the judges won the game for their team and played the Bonus Game for a Cash Jackpot

For the bonus game, one final category was played. This time, each of the five celebrities was assigned a random letter and had to give an answer that started with their letter.

after the winning team was given the category, going in order from left to right they had to give two answers for each celebrity and both answers had to start with the celebrity's assigned letter. The team was given twenty-five seconds to do this.

after the time expired, the judges went over the team's words and if any words were disallowed, the celebrity attached to those words was taken out of play. Celebrities were also taken out of play if the team failed to come up with the necessary two words.

Once the judges were done, the team was shown each of the celebrities' responses that they had unlocked. If a celebrity gave an answer that was not one of the two given by the team, they earned $100. If the team managed to do this for three celebrities, they won a cash jackpot that started at $4,000 and increased by $1,000 each day it went unclaimed.

Originally, the winning team picked one of five cards, each containing the name of a different celebrity. The team won the jackpot if they had captured the celebrity whose name was on the card, or all five celebrities were captured. If they were unsuccessful, they won $200 for each captured celebrity.

The cheap payout for $4000 increased by $1000 didn't do wonders for the show and was cancelled along with The NEW SCRABBLE, Reruns of Classic Concetration and Family Secrets w/Bob Eubanks

NBC tried to revive their Daytime Line-Up with Game Shows, but once again, they could not overcome CBS Daytime's Family Feud, The Price is Right as well as The Young & the Restless, The Bold & the Beautiful, As the World Turns and Guiding Light as CBS was once again THE #1 Network in Daytime Television

Time Machine - A Great Show hosted by Former Hollywood Square John Davidson of TV's That's Incredible/Incredible Sunday in his 1st Game Show as an emcee

John did a pretty good job hosting the show, he was 50/50 on The NEW Hollywood Squares, but was TERRIBLE on The NEW $100,000 Pyramid, but that's another story @ another time

The concept of the show was $ale of the Century Meets The Price is Right

Three contestants, one usually a returning champion, competed in mini-games, similar to pricing games from The Price Is Right, to win prizes. The prizes won went into a contestant's "Prize Bank". Each contestant played one game, with the champion playing the third game.

Mini Games (Format #1)

"Tube Game" – The contestant was given the names of two shows, and had to pick which one was airing in a given year. A correct answer gave the player control of the network the show was airing on. This process was done three times–the first with ABC shows, the second with NBC shows, and the third with CBS shows. After all three networks had been played the location of a hidden prize package was revealed, and if the contestant controlled that network the package was added to their prize bank. If the contestant get all 3 correct, he/she won the prize automatically.

"3 In A Row" – In each square of a tic-tac-toe board is a different year, all from the same decade. 3 In A Row had two different formats. The first format had a player start by picking three cards dubbed "Poison Cards". After the Poison Cards were chosen the player was shown nine events and chose them one at a time. After a player chose an event the year it occurred lit up on the board, and the game continued until the player made any line. If a player made a line horizontally or vertically, a prize was added to their prize bank. A diagonal line won a larger prize, but if a player made a line with all three Poison Cards the game was lost. The second format gave the player a choice between two events; each time an event was chosen the year it happened was lit up on the board and a new event replaced it. Since the Poison Cards were no longer in play, a player could only lose by making a diagonal line.

"As Time Goes By" – To begin, the contestant was given one free spin. Three photos of a celebrity were shown to the contestant one at a time and they had to guess in what year the photo was taken. Each time the player came within five years of the correct year they earned a spin. They then took their spins to the Money Clock, a spinner made to look like a clock. The area around 12 o'clock was painted red. The pointer moved automatically, and the contestant watched it for a few seconds. They then turned away and hit a plunger, stopping the pointer. If they landed at the red area, a prize was added to their prize bank. The game continued until a player stopped the pointer in the red area to win the prize or until they ran out of spins and lost.

"Before Or After" – The contestant was given $200 and a base year, and the contestant had to guess whether an event happened before or after the base year. A correct guess doubled the money, and the year of that event became the new base year. The contestant had three opportunities to double their money, for a maximum of $1,600 for three correct answers. After the third question, the contestant was given an opportunity to bank the money and stop or risk it on a double-or-nothing final question. Answering correctly doubled the money and added it to the prize bank but answering incorrectly lost it all.

"Sweet Sixteen" – Similar to the "Lucky Seven" pricing game on The Price Is Right. The contestant was given sixteen $100 bills to start the game. They were then shown a series of four products and had to guess what year they were introduced. For the first three products, the contestant was given a range to guess in (sometime in the 1950s, within the last 10 years, etc.). If any $100 bills were left after the fourth product, the leftover money and an additional prize package was put in their Prize Bank.

"Main Event" – A base year was given along with five categories. The contestant was given a free category of their choice to start and then picked from the remaining categories one at a time. Each category had one question with two possible answers, with a right answer winning the category and a clue for the "Main Event", which was something that occurred in the base year. After all the categories were played a clue was revealed and the contestant got an opportunity to guess. Guessing the Main Event on the first clue put $5,000 in the Prize Bank; each subsequent clue cut the value by $1,000.

Time Capsule

After the mini-games were played the three contestants faced off in the final round, the Time Capsule (Time Machine's Version of the Showcase Showdown). Davidson gave the players a list of four events that all happened in the same year, and then a clip from a popular song from that year was played. The contestants then attempted to guess the year, and the contestant with the closest guess became the champion, won all of their banked prizes, and advanced to the bonus round. The other two players left with parting gifts. If two or more contestants were equally close, John would read a question related to the Time Capsule year to the tied players; the first one to buzz in with the right answer won.

The 2nd Format

On February 11 (just over a month after the series began), the format was completely overhauled with many mini-games undergoing rule changes to fit the new format and others retired. The champion no longer played the mini games, with the two challengers playing for the right to meet him/her in the final round. They played three mini-games, each one worth a prize; the Prize Bank was scrapped, with contestants now keeping their prizes regardless of how well they did.

The first two mini-games were worth one point, the last one was worth two. The one with the most points after three games won the game and advanced to the Challenge Round. If there was a tie after three games, a tiebreaker question was read; the first one to buzz in with the right answer won the game.

Mini Games (Format #2)
Six mini-games were used in this new format. Unlike the old format, the same two lineups were used for every episode, alternating each day.

Lineup #1

"Game 1: As Time Goes By" – A photo of a celebrity was shown. Similar in format to Card Sharks, one player guessed when the photo was taken, and the other one guessed whether the right answer is higher or lower. Whoever was right won a spin. This was repeated with two more photos of the same celebrity. Each player then took their spins to the Money Clock, which now had four spaces. The four spaces read zero, $100, $300, and $1,000, with the $1,000 space much smaller than the rest. As before, the contestant watched the pointer for a few seconds, then turned away to stop it by hitting a plunger. The space they landed on was the amount of dollars they won. The player with the highest score won the game, but both players kept whatever they earned on the Money Clock.

"Game 2: Tube Game" – Davidson described an abc show that was on in a given year. Players buzz in to guess what show he's describing, and a right answer wins a point. Davidson then describes an NBC show from the same year, then a CBS show. After that, Davidson asked questions pertaining to the three shows. First to five points won the game and a prize.

"Game 3: Jukebox Game" – Four jukeboxes were shown, each emblazoned with a different year from a certain decade. A song is played, and two possible artists are given. Buzzing in with the right artist won the right to match the song with the year it was released. If they got a match, they got a point. If they missed, their opponent got one chance to pick the right one and steal the point. The jukebox with the right answer was eliminated from play regardless. If all the jukeboxes were eliminated, then the contestants just had to identify the song's artist to get the point, without having to match the song to a year. First to three points won the game and a prize.

Lineup #2

"Game 1: On The Button" – An event was given, and one player guessed what year the event happened in. Getting it exactly right won a point for that player. If they guessed wrong, Davidson would say whether the event happened before or after that year, and the other contestant had a chance to guess. This continued until one player got three points, winning the game and a prize. This game used the same set as "Sweet Sixteen".

"Game 2: 3 In A Row" – Just like before, each square of a tic-tac-toe board had a different year from the same decade. Three spaces in a row were marked with stars; these made up the "Magic 3 In A Row". One player was given two events. The contestant picked an event from the two choices, and the year it happened in lit up. A new event takes the selected one's place, and the other contestant picked one. Picking a space in the Magic 3 In A Row won $100, which the contestant kept win or lose. The contestant who lit up the third space in the Magic 3 In A Row won the game and a prize.

"Game 3: Main Event" – As before, a base year was given along with five categories. The game begins with a pot of $200. The contestants alternate picking categories, each one having one question with two possible answers. Each correct answer adds $200 to the pot. After all the categories were played, clues to a “Main Event” were revealed one at a time. The first person to buzz in and correctly guess the Main Event won the game and the pot.

Challenge Round

The Time Capsule round from the previous format was reworked into a two-player game and renamed the "Challenge Round" following the format change. The winner from the mini-games portion of the show faced off against the returning champion. The format for the Challenge Round remained the same, with the closest player winning and playing the bonus round. If the winning mini-games player was unable to unseat the champion, they kept whatever prizes were in their prize bank.

Bonus Round

Three different bonus games were used during the show's run.

Bonus Round #1 – Four events were given, only one of which happened in a given year. If the contestant picked the right event, he or she won a growing Jackpot of prizes. The champion only played for the prizes if he or she guessed the exact year in the Time Capsule round.

Bonus Round #2 – A target year was given, and up to four questions were asked. The contestant's job was to guess whether the event occurred before or after the given year. Four correct answers won the bonus round, a prize package, and a cash jackpot that began at $1,000 and increased $1,000 every day until hit. The game ended if the player missed a question.

Bonus Round #3 – This bonus round was used when the second format began. Questions were asked relating to whether a certain event happened before or after the given year. Enough correct answers won the player a new car, while an incorrect answer stopped the game. The champion had to provide four answers to win the car on the first try, with one less required for each return trip, and the car was automatically won if the player made it to a fifth day. Under this format, a champion retired when they won the car; the contestant they defeated in that day's Challenge Round then became the new champion.

IMO, having the 2nd Format changed was once again, another bonehead decision by NBC and not only that, but losing viewers to The NEW $25,000 Pyramid with the late Dick Clark also hurt the show, had the show stuck to its original format, then the show would've lasted longer than 13 weeks

and BTW, Charlie Tuna announcer for America's Top 10 with the late Casey Kasem and a Local Los Angeles DJ served as announcer for Both Versions of SCRABBLE, Time Machine and Scattergories, the late Jay Stewart of TV's Let's Make a Deal as well as announcers for Barry & Enright's The Joker's Wild, The NEW Tic Tac Dough and BULLSEYE was the original announcer for $ale of the Century and SCRABBLE before Don Morrow took over for $ale and Charlie for SCRABBLE

and now, I wanna get to a Reg Grundy Game Show that wasn't on NBC, but should've been on that network

Bruce Forsyth's Hot Streak - Now, I know that this wasn't on NBC and yes, this was on abc, but the format was great when you had your usual Battle of the Sexes, in which you had to give clues to have your partner guess the secret word w/o repeating clues and the Bonus Game was AWESOME and the set was great and I LOVE the Big Flashy Board that flashes the Big Winnings as well as the $ across the board, but let me say this, Bruce Forsyth did his usual good job, but I felt bad for him that this was his only Game Show in America that lasted 13 weeks, but the show is a Big Hit Around the World, but IMO, I blame NBC for not picking up the show, I mean come on now, having abc pick-up this show and putting it up against The Price is Right and Wheel of Fortune hurt abc and NBC should've been smart enough to pick up this show and put it on their daytime line-up, had NBC been so smart, this show would've lasted longer and this along with $ale of the Century and SCRABBLE would've been the BIG POWER HOUSES of NBC DAYTIME and what's interesting was that the late Gene Wood was announcer for this show as many people know him from Goodson-Todman/Mark Goodson Game Shows and later, Marc Summers of Nickelodeon's Double Dare and What Would You Do? Fame took over as announcer for the show and the theme was great to listen to and it had that feel good dance music

and BTW, the themes to $ale, Both SCRABBLES, Scattergories, Time Machine and Hot Streak were all composed by the late Ray Ellis and Marc Ellis, of course, Ray did the theme to The Today Show from the 70's and Early 80's before it was changed to The Mission by John Williams best known for STAR WARS, Indiana Jones and of course, Superman w/the late Christopher Reeve

Once again, Great Game Shows, but ended b/c of bad decisions and mistakes from NBC and not pickin' up Hot Streak was a HUGE Mess Up, IMO

bmasters9

03-10-2015, 09:39 AM

Don't forget about Teachers Only, it was co-produced by Larry Larry Productions and Carson Productions

Like Partners In Crime, that's something that I don't think I knew either.

Back to that Partners series from 1984: is there any video evidence of the Carson/CPT combo from that NBC series?

simmytbone

03-10-2015, 02:19 PM

Like Partners In Crime, that's something that I don't think I knew either.

Back to that Partners series from 1984: is there any video evidence of the Carson/CPT combo from that NBC series?

There's a Video of Carson Productions/Columbia Pictures Television A Unit of the Coca-Cola Company and this was also taken from Carson's Comedy Classic on syndication

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3fL3Sqb5jA

also, on Amen, yes, Carson Productions were the sole producers until the Final Season, but MCA-TV Exclusive Distributor (now Universal Television) Distributed the rights to Amen

Here's the proof that Partners in Crime is a joint producion of Carson and Columbia, just scroll down to it or go to the p's to make it easier for ya

http://www.magicdragon.com/UltimateMystery/tv.html

and here's another site of Partners in Crime

http://www.wonderland-site.com/html/pic.htm

icecream

03-10-2015, 03:06 PM

Wow its hard to believe ADW was in the top 5 rated shows, I guess the Cosby lead-in really did help.A Different World even built on its Cosby Show lead-in for the 1990-1991 and 1991-1992 seasons, naturally helped by being sandwiched between Cosby and Cheers. But when it moved to the 8:00 anchor spot after The Cosby Show ended, A Different World fell out of the top 30.

bmasters9

03-10-2015, 05:03 PM

There's a Video of Carson Productions/Columbia Pictures Television A Unit of the Coca-Cola Company and this was also taken from Carson's Comedy Classic on syndication

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3fL3Sqb5jA

also, on Amen, yes, Carson Productions were the sole producers until the Final Season, but MCA-TV Exclusive Distributor (now Universal Television) Distributed the rights to Amen

Here's the proof that Partners in Crime is a joint producion of Carson and Columbia, just scroll down to it or go to the p's to make it easier for ya

http://www.magicdragon.com/UltimateMystery/tv.html

and here's another site of Partners in Crime

http://www.wonderland-site.com/html/pic.htm

Thank you very much! That's just what I wanted to know. Also, thanks for the video of Carson/CPT from Carson's Comedy Classics. It may not have been exactly from Partners in Crime, but it's great just the same to see what it was like.

Thanks again!

mets82

03-10-2015, 05:15 PM

Well here's another BIG TIME Mess-Up from NBC

RG-Reg Grundy Game Shows

$ale of the Century - AWESOME Show that lasted over 6 years, Jim Perry as always is a TERRIFIC Host, Sally Jillian was a bad choice for hostess, Lee Menning was a Good Hostess, but Summer Bartholomew is an AWESOME Hostess, having the speed round added after the Final Fame Game was a great idea, but when it came to the Bonus Games, the Shopper's Round was THE Best Bonus Game that fit the show

The Winner's Board was pretty good, but it was taken from Concentration where you had to match to win the prize and their were 2 WIN Cards which are also used as Wild Cards meaning that it's an automatic match and if you won 9 days or 9 games in a row, you could either take all the winnings and go home, but if you cameback on your 10th day and lose, you lose everything on the Winner's Board, but if you win 10 days or 10 games in a row, then you won everything on the Winner's Board plus the Cash Bonus of $50,000, but when NBC decided to change their format with the Winner's Big Money Game that's when it got bad

You had to solve 5 of the 6 puzzles in 25 seconds or less and later it was changed to 4 of the 5 puzzles in 20 seconds and it was taken from its sister show SCRABBLE with the SCRABBLE SPRINT Bonus Game where you had to hit the plunger to stop the clock, instead of 2 choices of Envelopes-Pink or Blue, you had 3 choices of Envelopes-Red, Yellow or Blue and instead of letters popping up, there were words that popped up, they have up to 6 words that pops in, (a la Break the Bank '85/'86) and they start @ $5000 on Day 1, $6000 or your 2nd day, $7000 on your 3rd day, $8000 on your 4th day, $9000 on your 5th day and $10,000 on your 6th day, now no matter what happens, if you win 7 days or 7 games in a row, they you play for the automobile and you had to win the Winner's Big Money Game to get the automobile, otherwise you had to retire, but if you win the automobile, then you would come back for your 8th day and try for the Grand Prize of $50,000

Having the Winner's Big Money Game and losing viewers to CBS' Family Feud w/the late Ray Combs caused $ale to be cancelled (on the exact same day Super Password ended after 4 1/2 years and Card Sharks on CBS would be cancelled a week later after nearly 3 1/4 years)

But $ale was and still in an international hit around the word, but Fremantlemedia North America in associaton with 20th Century Fox Television brought back $ale of the Century with Temptation and it was HORRIBLE, but that's another story @ another time

SCRABBLE (80's & '93) - another successful show on NBC that lasted nearly 6 years in the 80's and Chuck Woolery was PERFECT for the show, the Game Play was GREAT, awarding Bonus Cash for Pink & Blue Squares was a great idea, not to mention the SCRABBLE Sprint was a GREAT Bonus Round and winning over $55,000 after 10 games was an AWESOME idea, however, NBC decided to cut back on the Big Money Winnings and the SCRABBLE Sprint had the Bonus Sprint for the Winner of the SCRABBLE Spring Game starting @ $5000 and increased by $1000 each time is not won was not such a good decision, IMO, but there was a moment where a female contestant won $10,000 in the Bonus Sprint with .1 of a second

When NBC brought the show back in '93, they had the same game play, but the set changed and so did the theme music, but also, the Bonus Sprint started @ $1000 and having the Blue & Pink Squares added to the Jackpot was a HORRIBLE Decision, whoever came up with that idea should've gotten the pink slip and please don't get me started on the spelling format, which thankfully didn't last long

another game show that did great, but got cut b/c of big mistakes by NBC

SCATTERGORIES - another Game Show based on a popular Word Game, Dick Clark (who was 63 @ the time) did his usual good job and as always, he was great with celebs just like he did with Pyramid, but the format was rather strange, I mean, it was your usual men vs. women used on another Reg Grundy Game Show Hot Streak

The team in control was given 15 seconds to name up to six items that fit a particular category and started with a specific letter of the alphabet. The team scored a point each time the team gave an acceptable word. However, no player could give two consecutive answers, and no word could be used as part of more than two answers.

After the list was complete or time ran out, the other team could challenge any word they believed to be unacceptable. If challenged, a panel of five jurors voted whether or not the word was acceptable, with the majority vote ruling. If the word was unacceptable, the challenging team scored a point; otherwise the controlling team received an additional point.

Originally, Mr. Clark read the category and then the letter in play for the round and members of each team attempted to buzz-in and provide a word that fit both criteria. The team who won the toss-up scored a point and played the remainder of that half of the round. This was later changed to having the challengers play the first category and letter.

If the team in control had given at least four proper answers, they then were given a chance to earn up to four additional points with the celebrity panel. One at a time the team chose a member of the panel and that celebrity's response was played back to the team. If the celebrity gave an answer that was not on the team's list, they received one point. If the team chose a celebrity that gave an answer matching any of the team's answers, a point was taken away.

In the second round, the above point values were doubled and whoever was ahead at the end of the round won the game and $500.

If both teams were tied at the end of round two, a tiebreaker similar to the one used to determine control at the beginning of the episode was played. The first team member to buzz-in and give an answer ruled valid by the judges won the game for their team and played the Bonus Game for a Cash Jackpot

For the bonus game, one final category was played. This time, each of the five celebrities was assigned a random letter and had to give an answer that started with their letter.

after the winning team was given the category, going in order from left to right they had to give two answers for each celebrity and both answers had to start with the celebrity's assigned letter. The team was given twenty-five seconds to do this.

after the time expired, the judges went over the team's words and if any words were disallowed, the celebrity attached to those words was taken out of play. Celebrities were also taken out of play if the team failed to come up with the necessary two words.

Once the judges were done, the team was shown each of the celebrities' responses that they had unlocked. If a celebrity gave an answer that was not one of the two given by the team, they earned $100. If the team managed to do this for three celebrities, they won a cash jackpot that started at $4,000 and increased by $1,000 each day it went unclaimed.

Originally, the winning team picked one of five cards, each containing the name of a different celebrity. The team won the jackpot if they had captured the celebrity whose name was on the card, or all five celebrities were captured. If they were unsuccessful, they won $200 for each captured celebrity.

The cheap payout for $4000 increased by $1000 didn't do wonders for the show and was cancelled along with The NEW SCRABBLE, Reruns of Classic Concetration and Family Secrets w/Bob Eubanks

NBC tried to revive their Daytime Line-Up with Game Shows, but once again, they could not overcome CBS Daytime's Family Feud, The Price is Right as well as The Young & the Restless, The Bold & the Beautiful, As the World Turns and Guiding Light as CBS was once again THE #1 Network in Daytime Television

Time Machine - A Great Show hosted by Former Hollywood Square John Davidson of TV's That's Incredible/Incredible Sunday in 1st Game Show as an emcee

John did a good job hosting the show as he did The NEW Hollywood Squares, but was TERRIBLE on The NEW $100,000 Pyramid, but that's another story @ another time

The conept of the show was $ale of the Century Meets The Price is Right

Three contestants, one usually a returning champion, competed in mini-games, similar to pricing games from The Price Is Right, to win prizes. The prizes won went into a contestant's "Prize Bank". Each contestant played one game, with the champion playing the third game.

Mini Games (Format #1)

"Tube Game" – The contestant was given the names of two shows, and had to pick which one was airing in a given year. A correct answer gave the player control of the network the show was airing on. This process was done three times–the first with ABC shows, the second with NBC shows, and the third with CBS shows. After all three networks had been played the location of a hidden prize package was revealed, and if the contestant controlled that network the package was added to their prize bank. If the contestant get all 3 correct, he/she won the prize automatically.

"3 In A Row" – In each square of a tic-tac-toe board is a different year, all from the same decade. 3 In A Row had two different formats. The first format had a player start by picking three cards dubbed "Poison Cards". After the Poison Cards were chosen the player was shown nine events and chose them one at a time. After a player chose an event the year it occurred lit up on the board, and the game continued until the player made any line. If a player made a line horizontally or vertically, a prize was added to their prize bank. A diagonal line won a larger prize, but if a player made a line with all three Poison Cards the game was lost. The second format gave the player a choice between two events; each time an event was chosen the year it happened was lit up on the board and a new event replaced it. Since the Poison Cards were no longer in play, a player could only lose by making a diagonal line.

"As Time Goes By" – To begin, the contestant was given one free spin. Three photos of a celebrity were shown to the contestant one at a time and they had to guess in what year the photo was taken. Each time the player came within five years of the correct year they earned a spin. They then took their spins to the Money Clock, a spinner made to look like a clock. The area around 12 o'clock was painted red. The pointer moved automatically, and the contestant watched it for a few seconds. They then turned away and hit a plunger, stopping the pointer. If they landed at the red area, a prize was added to their prize bank. The game continued until a player stopped the pointer in the red area to win the prize or until they ran out of spins and lost.

"Before Or After" – The contestant was given $200 and a base year, and the contestant had to guess whether an event happened before or after the base year. A correct guess doubled the money, and the year of that event became the new base year. The contestant had three opportunities to double their money, for a maximum of $1,600 for three correct answers. After the third question, the contestant was given an opportunity to bank the money and stop or risk it on a double-or-nothing final question. Answering correctly doubled the money and added it to the prize bank but answering incorrectly lost it all.

"Sweet Sixteen" – Similar to the "Lucky Seven" pricing game on The Price Is Right. The contestant was given sixteen $100 bills to start the game. They were then shown a series of four products and had to guess what year they were introduced. For the first three products, the contestant was given a range to guess in (sometime in the 1950s, within the last 10 years, etc.). If any $100 bills were left after the fourth product, the leftover money and an additional prize package was put in their Prize Bank.

"Main Event" – A base year was given along with five categories. The contestant was given a free category of their choice to start and then picked from the remaining categories one at a time. Each category had one question with two possible answers, with a right answer winning the category and a clue for the "Main Event", which was something that occurred in the base year. After all the categories were played a clue was revealed and the contestant got an opportunity to guess. Guessing the Main Event on the first clue put $5,000 in the Prize Bank; each subsequent clue cut the value by $1,000.

Time Capsule

After the mini-games were played the three contestants faced off in the final round, the Time Capsule (Time Machine's Version of the Showcase Showdown). Davidson gave the players a list of four events that all happened in the same year, and then a clip from a popular song from that year was played. The contestants then attempted to guess the year, and the contestant with the closest guess became the champion, won all of their banked prizes, and advanced to the bonus round. The other two players left with parting gifts. If two or more contestants were equally close, John would read a question related to the Time Capsule year to the tied players; the first one to buzz in with the right answer won.

The 2nd Format

On February 11 (just over a month after the series began), the format was completely overhauled with many mini-games undergoing rule changes to fit the new format and others retired. The champion no longer played the mini games, with the two challengers playing for the right to meet him/her in the final round. They played three mini-games, each one worth a prize; the Prize Bank was scrapped, with contestants now keeping their prizes regardless of how well they did.

The first two mini-games were worth one point, the last one was worth two. The one with the most points after three games won the game and advanced to the Challenge Round. If there was a tie after three games, a tiebreaker question was read; the first one to buzz in with the right answer won the game.

Mini Games (Format #2)
Six mini-games were used in this new format. Unlike the old format, the same two lineups were used for every episode, alternating each day.

Lineup #1

"Game 1: As Time Goes By" – A photo of a celebrity was shown. Similar in format to Card Sharks, one player guessed when the photo was taken, and the other one guessed whether the right answer is higher or lower. Whoever was right won a spin. This was repeated with two more photos of the same celebrity. Each player then took their spins to the Money Clock, which now had four spaces. The four spaces read zero, $100, $300, and $1,000, with the $1,000 space much smaller than the rest. As before, the contestant watched the pointer for a few seconds, then turned away to stop it by hitting a plunger. The space they landed on was the amount of dollars they won. The player with the highest score won the game, but both players kept whatever they earned on the Money Clock.

"Game 2: Tube Game" – Davidson described an abc show that was on in a given year. Players buzz in to guess what show he's describing, and a right answer wins a point. Davidson then describes an NBC show from the same year, then a CBS show. After that, Davidson asked questions pertaining to the three shows. First to five points won the game and a prize.

"Game 3: Jukebox Game" – Four jukeboxes were shown, each emblazoned with a different year from a certain decade. A song is played, and two possible artists are given. Buzzing in with the right artist won the right to match the song with the year it was released. If they got a match, they got a point. If they missed, their opponent got one chance to pick the right one and steal the point. The jukebox with the right answer was eliminated from play regardless. If all the jukeboxes were eliminated, then the contestants just had to identify the song's artist to get the point, without having to match the song to a year. First to three points won the game and a prize.

Lineup #2

"Game 1: On The Button" – An event was given, and one player guessed what year the event happened in. Getting it exactly right won a point for that player. If they guessed wrong, Davidson would say whether the event happened before or after that year, and the other contestant had a chance to guess. This continued until one player got three points, winning the game and a prize. This game used the same set as "Sweet Sixteen".

"Game 2: 3 In A Row" – Just like before, each square of a tic-tac-toe board had a different year from the same decade. Three spaces in a row were marked with stars; these made up the "Magic 3 In A Row". One player was given two events. The contestant picked an event from the two choices, and the year it happened in lit up. A new event takes the selected one's place, and the other contestant picked one. Picking a space in the Magic 3 In A Row won $100, which the contestant kept win or lose. The contestant who lit up the third space in the Magic 3 In A Row won the game and a prize.

"Game 3: Main Event" – As before, a base year was given along with five categories. The game begins with a pot of $200. The contestants alternate picking categories, each one having one question with two possible answers. Each correct answer adds $200 to the pot. After all the categories were played, clues to a “Main Event” were revealed one at a time. The first person to buzz in and correctly guess the Main Event won the game and the pot.

Challenge Round

The Time Capsule round from the previous format was reworked into a two-player game and renamed the "Challenge Round" following the format change. The winner from the mini-games portion of the show faced off against the returning champion. The format for the Challenge Round remained the same, with the closest player winning and playing the bonus round. If the winning mini-games player was unable to unseat the champion, they kept whatever prizes were in their prize bank.

Bonus Round

Three different bonus games were used during the show's run.

Bonus Round #1 – Four events were given, only one of which happened in a given year. If the contestant picked the right event, he or she won a growing Jackpot of prizes. The champion only played for the prizes if he or she guessed the exact year in the Time Capsule round.

Bonus Round #2 – A target year was given, and up to four questions were asked. The contestant's job was to guess whether the event occurred before or after the given year. Four correct answers won the bonus round, a prize package, and a cash jackpot that began at $1,000 and increased $1,000 every day until hit. The game ended if the player missed a question.

Bonus Round #3 – This bonus round was used when the second format began. Questions were asked relating to whether a certain event happened before or after the given year. Enough correct answers won the player a new car, while an incorrect answer stopped the game. The champion had to provide four answers to win the car on the first try, with one less required for each return trip, and the car was automatically won if the player made it to a fifth day. Under this format, a champion retired when they won the car; the contestant they defeated in that day's Challenge Round then became the new champion.

IMO, having the 2nd Format changed was once again, another bonehead decision by NBC and not only that, but losing viewers to The NEW $25,000 Pyramid with the late Dick Clark also hurt the show, had the show stuck to its original format, then the show would've lasted longer than 13 weeks

and BTW, Charlie Tuna announcer for America's Top 10 with the late Casey Kasem and a Local Los Angeles DJ served as announcer for Both Versions of SCRABBLE, Time Machine and Scattergories, the late Jay Stewart of TV's Let's Make a Deal as well as announcers for Barry & Enright's The Joker's Wild, The NEW TIc Tac Dough and BULLSEYE was the original announcer for $ale of the Century and SCRABBLE before Don Morrow took over for $ale and Charlie for SCATTERGORIES

and now, I wanna get a Reg Grundy Game Show that wasn't on NBC, but should've been

Bruce Forsyth's Hot Streak - Now, I know that this wasn't on NBC and yes, this was on abc, but the format was great when you had your usual Battle of the Sexes, in which you had to give clues to have your partner guess the scret work w/o repeating clues and the Bonus Game was AWESOME and the set was great and I LOVE the Big Flashy Board that flashes the Big Winnings as well as the $ across the board, but let me say this, Bruce Forsyth did his usual good job, but I felt bac for him that this was his only Game Show in America that lasted 13 weeks, but the show is a Big Hit across the country, but IMO, I blame NBC for not picking up the show, I mean come on now, having abc pick-up this show and putting it up against The Price is Right and Wheel of Fortune hurt abc and NBC should've been smart enough to pick up this show and put it on their daytime line-up, had NBC been so smart, this show would've lasted longer and this along with $ale of the Century and SCRABBLE would've been the BIG POWER HOUSES of NBC DAYTIME and what's interesting was that the late Gene Wood was announcer for this show as many people know him from Goodson-Todman/Mark Goodson Game Shows and later, Marc Summers of Nickelodeon's Double Dare and What Would You Do? Fame took over as announcer for the show and the theme was great to listen to and it had that feel good dance music

and BTW, the themes to $ale, Both SCRABBLES, Scattergories, Time Machine and Hot Streak were all composed by the late Ray Ellis and Marc Ellis, of course, Ray did the theme to The Today Show from the 70's and Early 80's before it was changed to The Mission by John Williams best known for STAR WARS, Indiana Jones and of course, Superman w/the late Christopher Reeve

Once again, Great Game Shows, but ended b/c of bad decisions and mistakes from NBC and not pickin' up Hot Streak was a HUGE Mess Up, IMO

Simmy, did you remember all this or quote this from somewhere else? If you did this whole post via your memory, well you did a damn good job. Let me ask, can you give me the years of the game shows your talking about? I'm talking the years they were on the air?

simmytbone

03-11-2015, 02:01 AM

Simmy, did you remember all this or quote this from somewhere else? If you did this whole post via your memory, well you did a damn good job. Let me ask, can you give me the years of the game shows your talking about? I'm talking the years they were on the air?

I sure do and also, I didn't watch the Winner's Big Money Game on $ale until USA Network and GSN aired it in reruns

anyway, here's the list of when the show aired:

$ale of the Century w/Jim Perry aired on NBC Daytime from January 3, 1983 - March 24, 1989 and also aired on syndication from January 7, 1985 − September 12, 1986

The Original SCRABBLE w/Chuck Woolery aired on NBC Daytime from July 2, 1984 – March 23, 1990

The NEW SCRABBLE w/Chuck W and SCATTERGORIES w/the late TV Icon Dick Clark both aired on NBC Daytime from January 18 – June 11, 1993

Time Machine w/John Davidson aired on NBC Daytime from January 7 – April 26, 1985

Bruce Forsyth's Hot Streak aired on abc Daytime from January 6 – April 4, 1986

BTW, when Time Machine Debut on NBC Daytime, it debut the same time $ale of the Century aired the 1st episode on syndication and none of the station in my area had the syndicated version, but I saw it in reruns on USA Network and 1 year later, Hot Streak Debut in the USA

as I said before, had NBC picked up Hot Streak instead of abc, the show would've lasted longer in the USA and also, Bruce Forsyth appeared on an episode of The Muppet Show prior to Hot Streak

also, I need to point out that the sound fx drums used in the Bonus Game for SCATTERGORIES and Hot Streak were also used on SCRABBLE during the SCRABBLE Sprint Game and even Hot Streak had a Sound Effect used from Family Feud whenever they repeat a clue in the Main Game

simmytbone

03-11-2015, 02:03 AM

Thank you very much! That's just what I wanted to know. Also, thanks for the video of Carson/CPT from Carson's Comedy Classics. It may not have been exactly from Partners in Crime, but it's great just the same to see what it was like.

Thanks again!

anytime my brother, and BTW, I use to watch Carson's Comedy Classics on The Family Channel and they showed the Columbia Tri Star Television Distribution Logo instead of the Coca Cola Torch Lady from the 80's, but ironically, one of the episodes had the Columbia Tri Star Television Distribution Logo with the jingle from the 70's and 80's

irehtman

03-11-2015, 06:42 PM

Picking the wrong comedies.

TMC

03-15-2015, 05:55 AM

Having Jimmy Fallon (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3444938/board/flat/230776458?d=240552016&p=1#240552016) front-line The Tonight Show is another debatable mess-up (not as huge as the way that they screwed over Conan O'Brien), but to give you a better idea:
http://thedailybanter.com/2014/06/can-admit-jimmy-fallon-kind-sucks/

There isn’t a plane of existence where the name Jay Leno should be mentioned in the same breath as the name Mark Twain. Unfortunately, despite this fact, it was announced on Wednesday that Leno will be receiving the prestigious Mark Twain Prize for American Humor from the Kennedy Center this coming October. The honor represents the highest award for comedy in the United States and effectively instills upon Leno a credibility and place in American history that he most certainly doesn’t deserve. True, with one noteworthy break, Leno helmed The Tonight Show for 22 years, but honestly when the hallowed history of Tonight is mentioned, you often hear the names Allen, Parr, and of course Carson, but nobody in his right mind would drop Leno in with that company, regardless of his lengthy stewardship of the legendary property. Well, I take that back — I guess the Kennedy Center people would.

When NBC named Jimmy Fallon (http://officialfan.proboards.com/thread/519223/jimmy-fallon-funny?page=1) as the successor to Leno on The Tonight Show, it was tough to argue that the network hadn’t made a smart choice. Fallon was quirky but unthreatening, mildly clever without being the least bit cerebral, and smart but not smug. He had a broad-based appeal that would play perfectly at 11:35; the older crowd would think he was cute and endearing — or at the very least harmless — while the younger crowd would respond to his social media savvy. More importantly than any of that, he was a bona fide company man, an earnest lapdog who would ecstatically embrace the NBC way of shameless corporate synergy and cross-pollination. Want somebody who’ll interview the entire cast of the latest Universal film while the winner of Top Chef cooks for them and Matt Lauer troubleshoots their Comcast cable issues? Fallon’s your guy. Need somebody thoroughly beholden to the NBC system to the point where his balls and soul are both held in a vault in Lorne Michaels’s office and he’s guaranteed never to give you an ounce of trouble? Bring on Jimmy.

Here’s the only problem: while his ratings have been everything NBC could’ve wished for, Jimmy Fallon kind of sucks (http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/arts-and-culture/nine_things_i_hate_about_jimmy_fallon-38360089.html?page=2&showAll=). As in, his take on The Tonight Show is in some ways even worse than Leno’s. It’s not that Fallon doesn’t occasionally do some funny bits, it’s that he’s so unfailingly benign and so unwilling to ever make anyone — his guests, the audience, anyone — the least bit uncomfortable that you feel like you need an insulin shot from all the sugar that’s being pumped into your bloodstream during his show. He certainly doesn’t need to be snarky or wry, that’s more the torch Jimmy Kimmel is carrying forward, but Fallon and his writing staff of apparent Thought Catalogers seem so thrilled to simply be there that the occasional edge that could benefit an interview or a show beat is never even considered. Believe it or not, the show suffers because of this.

What’s more, Fallon not only attempts to avoid anything that might cause a break in anyone’s fun, he willfully edits out serious moments if they happen naturally. Recently, an article on Shailene Woodley claimed that during the actress’s appearance on Tonight to promote Divergent, the show cut her answer to a question Fallon had asked about whether she minded being compared to Jennifer Lawrence. Woodley’s answer was no-nonsense and took to task Hollywood’s tendency to pit female stars against each other. Fallon’s people apparently thought it harshed the vibe or something because the exchange never saw the light of day.

Then just a couple of days ago came Chris Christie’s damn-near hallucinatory guest spot on Tonight in which he and Fallon did a sketch called “The Evolution of Dad Dancing” and Fallon thanked him for “standing in the ring and getting hit like that” by the press while sheepishly deflecting the conversation away from the reason the press was “hitting” him: because his administration almost certainly ordered part of the George Washington Bridge closed to punish a political adversary. Fallon is simply genetically incapable of asking a question that might get an answer that isn’t 100% unicorns and rainbows. Even Leno was able to slyly hammer Hugh Grant after the guy had been busted with a hooker.

Fallon’s sketches seem to aim largely at triggering the dopey nostalgia receptors in the brain, with the amusement to be gleaned from watching him and his guests dance, and sing, and rap Gen-X and Millennial favorites apparently being a limitless commodity. He gets the cast of Full House back together; he sings Ebony and Ivory with Terry Crews; and he of course pores over every possible hip-hop classic, either by lip-syncing, bringing out Justin Timberlake to do cheesy white-boy karaoke with the Roots, or editing Brian Williams intros into Baby Got Back. It’s not that it’s not funny or charming on occasion, it’s just that it’s not on occasion. It’s constant. Fallon has one speed and only one speed: cloying and cutesy. He seeks out maximum Facebook viral circulation and hits precisely the insipid notes necessary to achieve that, turning The Tonight Show — one of the most storied properties in media history — into broadcast television’s answer to Upworthy. Fallon is a living, breathing hashtag.

Now certainly Fallon knows that the word broadcast is what matters. He’s aiming for the broadest possible audience and maybe that’s a laudable thing in an age where media saturation has removed the old cultural touchstones we as a nation used to experience together. There will never be another Johnny Carson precisely because there can’t be — our media choices are too expansive and diverse now and it’s split the audience into too many different subsets. But Fallon is trying to use social media to connect all the dots out there and give Americans something they can share in, even if they don’t share it in the traditional way. The problem is that there’s no meat to Fallon and that’s what’s needed to move his shtick beyond being just, well, shtick. Guys like Carson weren’t just funny, they were insightful and empathetic; they knew when to turn on the charm but also when to turn up the class and even subtly go for the throat. They knew that there’s more than one way to be entertaining. Fallon doesn’t seem to grasp that yet — although admittedly there’s time for him.

As long as his ratings hold, The Tonight Show will be Fallon’s for as long as he wants it. Hell, one day he may even be honored by the Kennedy Center. At which point he’ll probably take the stage and do a rap battle with the cast of Friends.

Will Jimmy Fallon's mediocre interviewing skills ever improve? (http://www.newsweek.com/fallon-king-youtube-not-nights-talk-shows-305629)

"The Tonight Show host is certainly the most versatile talk show host since Steve Allen, says John Walters. But, he adds, "watching and listening to Fallon interview a guest is simply more painful and awkward than every conversation that ever took place between Kevin Arnold and Winnie Cooper. Everything a guest has ever done, including the film, TV show or album he or she is there to promote, is either 'amazing' or 'awesome.'"

TMC

03-15-2015, 05:56 AM

Picking the wrong comedies.

Like for instance...:confused:

SitcomsOffline

03-15-2015, 11:32 AM

Dr. Thong

03-15-2015, 12:59 PM

David Letterman once said that Johnny Carson was the real thing when it came to late night...the rest of us are just pretenders.

He was right.

TMC

04-04-2015, 05:28 AM

One dumb NBC Sports related moment that doesn't seem to be talked about as much as say, "The Heidi Game" is NBC putting Ronald Reagan in the booth w/ Vin Scully for their coverage of the 1989 Major League Baseball All-Star Game. Please, note that this has absolutely nothing to do w/ President Reagan as a politician.

Basically, NBC put Ronald Reagan (who in his early life, was a broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs) on their 1989 ASG telecast because since they were about to lose the MLB contract to CBS (since NBC didn't have the World Series that year, the ASG was in essence, their last big baseball event), having a former President of the United States take part would naturally, be a really big deal.

The problem is that President Reagan made remarks were just out of sync (http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1989-07-12/sports/8902200563_1_reagan-wasn-t-star-nbc). He'd repeat statements Vin Scully just made, as if stating them for the first time. He rambled. He simply couldn't string together a sentence.

Tragically in hindsight, I seriously think that it was foreshadowing President Reagan's Alzheimer's diagnosis.

simmytbone

05-09-2015, 07:19 PM

Well here's another BIG TIME Mess-Up from NBC

Cancelling the Snorks after 2 seasons on NBC Saturday Morning and cancelling Punky Brewster after 2 seasons on NBC Prime Time and having both shows moved to syndication was a HUGE Mistake from the network

I mean, I love both Snorks and PB, but why cancel 2 good shows and have'em on syndication where they changed the format?

Not to mention, keeping the Smurfs for 9 seasons is another HUGE Mess-Up and what I mean about that is adding too many characters on there which either didn't make sense or they were so desperate to keep the show on the air

also, NBC cancelling another Hanna-Barbera/SEPP International S.A. Show called Foofur after 1 season

I mean, if you thought cancelling the Snorks was bad enough, this one also took the cake

Cancelling Jim Henson's Fraggle Rock: The Animated Series was another HUGE Mistake, not to mention putting the show up against Muppet Babies also hurt the show

Plus, The Chipmunks was a good show when Ruby-Spears co-produced the show with Bagdasarian and Karman, but when Bagdasarian Productions teamed up with Fred Wolf Producer of The California Raisin Show, James Bond, Jr. and most notably, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles for 10 seasons from 1987-1996, that's when it went downhill and also, teaming up with DiC Entertainment didn't help wonders either

also, the 91/92 Season was the final nail in the coffin for NBC Saturday Mornings when they produced shows that lasted 1 season in the likes of Hanna-Barbera's Yo Yogi!, Marvel's Spacecats from the Creators of ALF and DiC Entertainment's Pro Stars w/Bo Jackson, Wayne Gretzky and Michael Jordan (fresh-off from his 1st NBA Title win with the Chicago Bulls), Wish Kid w/MacCulley Culkin (fresh-off from his hit film Home Alone) and Chip 'N' Pepper's Cartoon Madness and I agree with Zillions Magazine when they said that this show was DUMB

Captain N was back for a final season and teaming up with Super Mario World was great, but they had it in a 30 minute format instead of a 60-minute format is also what hurt Captain N

That spelled the end for NBC Saturday Morning Cartoons only to be replaced with TNBC which lasted for 10 seasons from 1992-2001 and Saturday TODAY which started the beginning of The TODAY Show being aired on NBC 7 days a week

Jamey Greek

05-10-2015, 01:46 AM

I agree. I also think they should have brought both Buzz and Sonja back but had different actors play them.

Jamey Greek

05-10-2015, 01:48 AM

NBC shouldn't have cancelled Mamma's Family, I enjoyed the NBC episodes much more than the later ones. Iola was a nice addition, but I missed Ellen, Fran and the two kids. The characters of the kids could have been fleshed out with another NBC season. With three exiting female characters they should have added another regular female in addition to Iola. Bubba was just a 'Woody Boyd' ripoff but without the charm. Would have preferred Betty and Rue on Mama's Family than the Golden Girls since I never cared for that show and found it vastly overrated.

NBC should have renewed the show for a third season to air on Saturdays. The network was in last place they should have had more patience, especially after the show had decent ratings during the first season.

Yea they should have had Buzz and Aonja for the syndicated versions.

Jamey Greek

05-10-2015, 03:01 AM

NBC should have gave Buffalo Bill more time to be nurtured, at least a full season starting in the fall. Night Court would do well post-Cheers the following season. Buffalo Bill, Cheers and Night Court seemed very compatible with each other, fitting tonally into the workplace style of shows that have traditionally thrived on NBC.

Yea especially with The Cosby Show as a lead-in!

Jamey Greek

05-10-2015, 03:09 AM

If I had the time and the energy, I would attempt to research every bad decision that Zucker made at NBC. Jeff Zucker is the type of person who I perhaps hate the most when it comes to TV executives (arrogant, gimmicky to the point of being tacky, short-sighted, and cheap).

He expanded the today show to three hours for starters

James28

05-10-2015, 04:03 AM

Yea especially with The Cosby Show as a lead-in!

Yeah, but that would obviously mean Family Ties getting low ratings and ending up cancelled after two seasons because of it. Imagine Buffalo Bill lasting up to 1989 or 1990.

bmasters9

05-10-2015, 05:27 AM

He expanded the today show to three hours for starters

True, that! Today was fine right where it was at 2 hrs. (not including special occasions) since it started on 1/14/52. Why change it?!

Frenky

05-10-2015, 07:30 AM

Yeah, but that would obviously mean Family Ties getting low ratings and ending up cancelled after two seasons because of it. Imagine Buffalo Bill lasting up to 1989 or 1990.

Also Buffalo Bill was cancelled in spring 1984 before The Cosby Show came, and NBC probably wanted family comedies at 8pm, only chance was to either move it to Wednesday 9pm or Saturday night where NBC was airing comedies.

Jamey Greek

05-10-2015, 06:45 PM