I don't fully grasp "timeless" and "dated". Timeless is a thing that is still enjoyable at this generation and future ones. Dated is something obsolete or less than common nowadays.

Shows made before rise of internet and cell phone are obviously old and dated, especially The Golden Girls, Cheers, I Love Lucy, Seinfeld, and Married... with Children. Humor may still be timeless, but production values make their executions of plots totally dated. I can't say that B&W shows are common; they might exist in some shows exclusively for artistic reasons.

In The Dick van Dyke Show, Dick's character got injured in the ski lodge. He had trouble reaching for the pay phone. Since it was conveniently produced in the 1960s, there were NO cell phones or smartphones, or text messages. Nevertheless, inclusion of them would have been funnier and well-executed if another show could imitate its story.

In Friends, Monica had a HUGE cell phone and a pager that played major part of her job termination. Also, Chandler had older model of computer and printer (that was BRAND NEW during its first-run) that played the role of Ross and Rachel. Overall, people have aged into 30s! Pop references are either obscure or cut-off from syndication.

In 24, cell phones and other technology, including HUMMER, played major role for every episode.

In I Love Lucy, some episodes are obviously dated and nearly impossible to remake. Imitating Lucy's lip-synching of Carmen Miranda ("Mamae eu Quero") that went wrong by screwy vinyl player is possible because vinyl players still exist, especially at today's technology. However, maybe vinyl-to-MP3 player may or may not screw up, or a vinyl could be bad. Unfortunately, CDs and iPods have rendered vinyls as a past time, and Mamae eu Quero is easily found at Youtube... Maybe Youtube can help.... maybe not.

Imitating Lucy's inexperience film editing of mixing two films together into one (cowboy skit and Ricky's singing) is impossible. Making film at home is obsolete because we have cassette camcorders, hard-drive camcorders, webcams, etc. ...unless a nitwit (or casual person) screws up movie mixture... and then makes more drafts... and.... darn, imitation is impossible.

More major than technology are gender roles in older shows. For example, family shows, like Dennis the Menace and Leave It to Beaver have housewives and working fathers and trouble-making sons. Gilligan's Island have hot babes having fun, men trying to help the group survive in the island, and wealthy married woman.... still wealthy without money.

Timeless is timeless, but to me, every show is not that "timeless" but "dated". I have guilty pleasures for "dated" productions... and still enjoy them except many 1950s and 1960s shows, like ROUTE 66. Car is great, but social issues are so 1960s, even if relevant today. Even acting in the show is stale at early seasons (but might have gotten better later, as I could not continue the first season and the rest of the series), especially at today's standards.

Either Lucille Ball, Cheers, or Married... with Children can do better for this generation than a cool car with two adventurous men, watching times fly by.

When I read an article about Cheers (http://www.gq.com/entertainment/movies-and-tv/201210/cheers-oral-history-extended?printable=true), I guess episodic plots are less than common, while story arcs have become common.

If we go by this definition, even every novel is "dated" but still pleasurable, like Charles Dickens novels and John Cheever stories.

Thoughts?

I think it's pretty impossible to make any TV show or movie 'timeless' b/c there's always going to be something in it that will be obsolete sooner or later (the clothing, hairstyles, gadgets, etc.), but it can still be timeless in that it can be enjoyed over and over again. Nora Ephron once said that she purposely made her movies like "Sleepless in Seattle" and "You've Got Mail" timeless and in a way they are. You have to look hard to find things in those movies that are obsolete. But of course they aren't that hard to spot. In "Sleepless", the computers look ancient and it's kind of the same way in "Mail". But as far as the overall story lines go... Two people falling in love-it's definitely timeless!

All versions of The Twilight Zone are "timeless" perhaps because of its presentation, good and bad. Star Trek and Star Wars have clunky technology, supernatural stuff, and lack of cell phones in the UNIVERSE that make themselves pluses, but hammy (and clownish) acting are obvious to recognize. Even CGI is becoming obvious to see nowadays.

Both versions of The Outer Limits are still "timeless".

I think "timeless" refers more to the fact that a show can still be relatable in any decade. One example I might give is "The Cosby Show." The show didn't focus much on the current events or technology of the time and instead focused on universal issues such as love and family. "Dated" means that a show has so many references that are specific to the era that the show was made, that it is practically impossible for a newer generation to get anything out of it. An example would be "Rowan & Martin's Laugh In," a show that oozed late 60's/early 70's youth pop culture.

"Timeless" and "dated" are not easy to exactly define. They have multiple meanings. Obviously, technology is dated, clothing is dated, and even format may be dated. As for The Cosby Show, look at clothing and puberty. True, basic premise is timeless, but the execution is obviously dated. Children grow up, and viewers know what are behind the scenes, like Lisa Bonet. In one episode, the music is so '80s, and even no African-American family can do something considered "corny" and "non-Black" nowadays.

Even The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air is obviously dated, especially with immature humor. At least it's still enjoyable by Will Smith himself.

What is the last show that does the 1950s/1960s sitcom formula? Unfortunately, I cannot remember which show does the Father Knows Best/Leave It to Beaver cliche nowadays.

In Los Angeles broadcast area, I have two retro channels (METV and Antenna TV). I also have I Love Lucy still running in KTTV and KCOP. Bewitched reruns have run for one year a while back, but it's gone now. I don't even see old sitcoms from 1950s and 1960s in daytime anymore. Maybe stations figured that viewers found them awfully dated, now that we still have Friends, Seinfeld, and Frasier. Well, Married... with Children is gone from my area to exclusively cable. Why do you think stations are favoring new over the old?

A show's writing and quality holds more importance than whether their references are dated or whether or not they're using cell phones. Shows that put most of their focus on trying to be "current" and appealing to the mainstream scene at the time are going to appear dated - shows that put crafting strong stories and characters first are going to be "timeless".

Okay, to your definition, what are examples of "dated" and 'timeless' shows?

As for The Cosby Show, look at clothing and puberty.

The puberty? I'm not sure what you mean by this. Obviously the clothing is going to be dated. There's nothing that can be done about that. As Emo Joe stated, the writing is what makes a show a show timeless, not clothing or the occasional pop culture reference.

True, basic premise is timeless, but the execution is obviously dated. Children grow up, and viewers know what are behind the scenes, like Lisa Bonet.

Again, ? Are you referring to predictability? Because I don't consider that a factor in whether or not a show is considered timeless.

No African-American family can do something considered "corny" and "non-Black" nowadays.

This is an unfortunate. It's interesting that in the 70's, blacks were heavily stereotyped on TV and then The Cosby Show came around and changed all of that. Now, however, TV seems to have gone backward and abandoned much of what The Cosby Show show tried to change about how blacks were perceived.

I think "timeless" refers more to the fact that a show can still be relatable in any decade. One example I might give is "The Cosby Show." The show didn't focus much on the current events or technology of the time and instead focused on universal issues such as love and family. "Dated" means that a show has so many references that are specific to the era that the show was made, that it is practically impossible for a newer generation to get anything out of it. An example would be "Rowan & Martin's Laugh In," a show that oozed late 60's/early 70's youth pop culture.


I have to disagree, although the cosby show is still enjoyable in 2012 there are still things on the show that lets you know that it's a 80's show

1. Kids hairstyles
2. Kids clothes
3. VCR in the living room
4. Floor model TV in the living room
5. References to Michael Jackson

The puberty? I'm not sure what you mean by this. Obviously the clothing is going to be dated. There's nothing that can be done about that. As Emo Joe stated, the writing is what makes a show a show timeless, not clothing or the occasional pop culture reference.

In one episode of The Cosby Show, the teenage girl Vanessa gets caught by her parents for lying and then going to the concert due to fire at the house and... other stuff. At that time, there were no cell phones and internet; at this day and age, the girl Vanessa would have lost one today due to the con artist seen in that episode. Otherwise, she would secretly leave it at home and then take the batteries out without trace (or just turn it off). Chat messaging, text messaging, and other tech stuff would make past shows poorly aged.

Again, ? Are you referring to predictability? Because I don't consider that a factor in whether or not a show is considered timeless.
Maybe predictable format, but I was also referring to every child growing up taller and with body changes, like breast growth, voice change, and other stuff. Children growing up is always predictable, and... I don't know if it is relevant to timelessness anymore. The "Urkel" part IS very predictable due to sci-fi, icky same ol' nasal voice, even physical mishaps, and failures to win Laura. Even his tech stuff is so '90s anymore, but at least Urkel... I don't know, but he is anything but timeless to me.

The stories make the show timeless, or dated.

IE: Seinfeld is timeless to me, yes, a lot of tech would make a few scenes obsolete, but not everyone in the world has cellphones, cameras and facebook.

A dated show for me would be "Dark Angel". The show uses some of the most dated lingo, that it throws the show off. It's not used naturally in a lot of the dialog, and it throws the show off.

A good show has stories that can relate to as many people as possible. Shows like Friends, Seinfeld and Frasier, Cheers, M*A*S*H are still going strong in syndication, the stories have to be timeless.

Movies that haven't aged well (http://officialfan.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ot2011&action=display&thread=410817&page=1)

Unintentional Period Piece (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnintentionalPeriodPiece)

Another long-running show that IMO where the stuff seems dated comes to mind is Murphy Brown. I mean I used to enjoy the show when it was originally on but looking at it nowadays it's easy to see why it didn't last too long in syndicated reruns and TV Land reruns. The most obvious reason is the topical humor from stuff like Dan Quayle and what not.

As for Cosby, on one side of the coin it's enjoyable sometimes (IMO) b/c of the family values factor but on the other hand it's dated fashions and styles make it a tad bit dated.

Another long-running show that IMO where the stuff seems dated comes to mind is Murphy Brown. I mean I used to enjoy the show when it was originally on but looking at it nowadays it's easy to see why it didn't last too long in syndicated reruns and TV Land reruns. The most obvious reason is the topical humor from stuff like Dan Quayle and what not.

As for Cosby, on one side of the coin it's enjoyable sometimes (IMO) b/c of the family values factor but on the other hand it's dated fashions and styles make it a tad bit dated.

Speaking of Murphy Brown (http://www.vulture.com/2012/05/how-does-murphy-brown-hold-up.html) failing in syndication:
Long running shows that bombed in syndication (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=207874)

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/MurphyBrown

Deader than Disco (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeaderThanDisco): Unlike most Sit Coms of its era, Murphy Brown is rarely seen in syndication due to the now-dated (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnintentionalPeriodPiece) political references (there's now an entire generation of TV watchers who have no clue who Lesley Stahl and Dan Quayle are.)

During its network run, Murphy Brown (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/MurphyBrown?from=Main.MurphyBrown) was one of the most talked about, critically acclaimed shows on the air. Today, it's nowhere to be found in syndication, and first season DVD (http://www.theonion.com/articles/nations-weirdest-teenager-buys-season-one-dvd-of-m,21004/) sales were so poor that the second season was never even released. The show's reliance on topical humor is almost certainly a factor; jokes about Dan Quayle aren't nearly as funny 20 years later. It definitely doesn't help that its defining moment, Murphy's pregnancy and the subsequent feud with Dan Quayle, not only happened relatively early (the show ran for another six seasons after that), but has aged poorly — it seems quaint by today's standards for Quayle (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,319786,00.html) to have made such a big deal about a single mother on television.

What makes an old TV show “dated” (and is “dated” always bad)? (http://www.avclub.com/articles/what-makes-an-old-tv-show-dated-and-is-dated-alway,56864/)

Shows that have not stood the test of time (http://www.datalounge.com/cgi-bin/iowa/ajax.html?t=11230037#page:showThread,11230037)

The stories make the show timeless, or dated.


IMO despite its age Lassie is timeless. There was one episode in the "Jeff's Collie" Era of this show where Jeff and his family have difficulty getting a "State of the Art" Electronic Gadget to work properly - a TV Set! :lol:

Times may change, but some things remain the same! :rotflmao:

Even if a show is dated,so what,as long as it's entertaining.Sometimes the fact that a show is dated even makes it more entertaining.A good show is a good show,whether it's dated,timeless or even a little of both.

Even if a show is dated,so what,as long as it's entertaining.Sometimes the fact that a show is dated even makes it more entertaining.A good show is a good show,whether it's dated,timeless or even a little of both.
I actually like dated shows. They take me back to that era when the show was made.

Even if a show is dated,so what,as long as it's entertaining.Sometimes the fact that a show is dated even makes it more entertaining.A good show is a good show,whether it's dated,timeless or even a little of both.
There is nothing timeless about Pride and Prejudice, Sherlock Holmes, or Rebecca; in fact, they are obviously dated in terms of romance and civilisation from the 19th century. (Professing admission of love from either romance lead no longer leads to marriage nowadays. Mr. Darcy and Ms. Eliza Bennett got married not long after they admit their passion for each other in the 19th century.)

Also, crimes in the 19th century back then are not that advanced; there were no cell phones or DNA technology in those days. Sherlock Holmes used the 19th or early 20th century way of investigating crime with chemicals and wit in his days.

Nevertheless, adaptations are very well-produced, especially colored versions.

I actually like dated shows. They take me back to that era when the show was made.
Glad you called everything dated. Well, I still enjoy them nonetheless.

TV shows that don't hold up as well... (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=393195)

Any current shows with potential to be timeless? (http://officialfan.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=display&thread=454228)

Another long-running show that IMO where the stuff seems dated comes to mind is Murphy Brown. I mean I used to enjoy the show when it was originally on but looking at it nowadays it's easy to see why it didn't last too long in syndicated reruns and TV Land reruns. The most obvious reason is the topical humor from stuff like Dan Quayle and what not.


Murphy Brown is still relevant in the sense that politicians are still debating about single mothers and the role of women in society in general. Then there was Bill O'Reilly's rant last year about Jennifer Aniston's character in the movie where she was a single mom. But I agree that the topical humor is confined to the era the show was on.

What's really dated are the cop shows from the 70's. The slang, the fact that almost every bad guy wore turtleneck sweaters under sport jackets, and the nature of some of the crimes, especially the drug references, scream "mod." But they are still highly enjoyable, some even more so than the ones today that are so high-tech they're going to be dated in the next 20-30 years. :D

Dick Van Dyke Show, Mary Tyler Moore Show and Bob Newhart never went out of style, it's just the clothes were different and the tech was not as advanced.

I always think family ties is timeless

An interesting food (http://www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?648888-Shows-That-Overstayed-Their-Welcome&p=5882682&viewfull=1#post5882682) for thought regarding the differences in tolerating shows from the '70s once the '80s rolled around:
All the Lear-coms, M*A*S*H* (http://www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?648888-Shows-That-Overstayed-Their-Welcome&p=5882721&viewfull=1#post5882721), and Lou Grant were tailor-made for the '70s with their social-political themes and pontificating. Once the '80s rolled around, and the country was taking to Reagan, all of that over-philosophizing seemed dated and out-of-place.

Murphy Brown is still relevant in the sense that politicians are still debating about single mothers and the role of women in society in general. Then there was Bill O'Reilly's rant last year about Jennifer Aniston's character in the movie where she was a single mom. But I agree that the topical humor is confined to the era the show was on.

What's really dated are the cop shows from the 70's. The slang, the fact that almost every bad guy wore turtleneck sweaters under sport jackets, and the nature of some of the crimes, especially the drug references, scream "mod." But they are still highly enjoyable, some even more so than the ones today that are so high-tech they're going to be dated in the next 20-30 years. :D

Here's what I found why digging through the Television Without Pity archives regarding why Murphy Brown more than likely, doesn't hold up too well today:
https://web.archive.org/web/20140331135603/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3111861-murphy-brown/#entry1250570

I, too, used to watch MP every Monday. But it is the worst dated sitcom I've ever seen. It's impossible to watch the reruns because almost every joke depends on whatever current event was going on at that time. So you have to watch the episode and try and think back, at the same time, to whatever happened to be going on ten years ago. Sometimes the references are general enough, but even if you have a good memory and an excellent grasp of history as I do, there are some references that are so specific to whatever scandal happened that was huge at the time but which is largely forgotten now. It's like if, in ten years, someone watches the Trump episode of SNL. The references to Omarosa will completely go over everyone's head.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140331135603/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3111861-murphy-brown/#entry1259956

I've often wondered why "Murphy Brown" doesn't repeat anymore. The time-trapped nature may be a reason, but I've seen so many episodes of "Good Times" and "The Jeffersons" - with their "right on" pronouncements to think this could be the sole reason. At the same time, "Kotter" episodes only crop up when Travolta does something interesting, but immediately die out. Maybe it's a white thing? Kidding. Kidding!

I would like to see episodes up to when Eldin left; then I would bail.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140402223313/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3111861-murphy-brown/page-5#entry5909191

They've begun running this show on TVLand now. I tend to be shocked at how little this show runs, considering how popular it was when it first aired. But whenever they do decide to run it, I see how time-locked it is.

Don't get me wrong, the first few seasons are still funny, and I still see the birth of Murphy's baby as the point of no return, but the show just seems hopefully trapped in the early 90s. I don't even think it's all the talk about then-political figures and current events; just something about the characters themselves reeks of 1991.

This is probably the most "on-point" argument that I've read:
https://web.archive.org/web/20140402223313/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3111861-murphy-brown/page-5#entry5915785

I think this show did itself in on its own self-indulgence... it was so focused on making a political point that everything else got chucked. And as another poster noted, the greats don't mark themselves by anchoring themselves to the issues of the moment... which is why Newhart, MTM, and early Cosby are so eminently rewatchable, and Murphy Brown (and, in the same way, Designing Women) is as dated as Corky's big shoulder pads. Will and Grace, for instance, will be hilarious in ten years, and not in a good way.

Here's a little secret: everything is dated.. If the subject matter, clothing, and pop culture references don't make it obvious what decade a show came, the production values will make it very clear. Compare the overlit color of the sixties with the far more muted videotaped color of the seventies.
And you know what, it doesn't matter. Yes the B&W/gender relations/set make it obvious "I Love Lucy" was made in the fifties. But generations didn't care, because it made them laugh.

Here's a little secret: everything is dated.. If the subject matter, clothing, and pop culture references don't make it obvious what decade a show came, the production values will make it very clear. Compare the overlit color of the sixties with the far more muted videotaped color of the seventies.
And you know what, it doesn't matter. Yes the B&W/gender relations/set make it obvious "I Love Lucy" was made in the fifties. But generations didn't care, because it made them laugh.


I agree with this, The Honeymooners is very dated but I love watching it lol

How about Family Guy? They use 80s pop culture as the source of the shows' humor. It will never stand the test of time.

Install. I agree with you. Let's face today's society will be dated in 50 years from now. Who's knows, Rubber Croc shoes may be a thing of the past in year 2065. The shows we see now will be dated.

One poster mentioned a while back on the I love Lucy thread, that you get a education on seeing old shows. What was "in" at the time. Many times Lucy mentioned the presidents who were in office.

In speaking of dated but still fun how about Miami Vice you can't get anymore date that that show with it's lingo and fashion.

How about Family Guy? They use 80s pop culture as the source of the shows' humor. It will never stand the test of time.

So this would suggest that a scripted TV show with literally loads of cultural references never stands the test of time?

Not all shows are like Family Guy. There are some that don't use referances and have aged well. It depends on the plot and not everybody knows pop culture from 30 or 40 years ago.

I would say Three's Company is still timeless, aside from the earlier seasons looking really bad because of the 70's wardrobe the jokes and dialogue themselves have nary a hint that's it's dated and John Ritter's physical comedy is enjoyable to all ages.

There are occasional movie/TV references of the era but they are almost never worked into the plot where it's in your face like sitcoms from that time.