who the hell is that woman? That's Not Roxie Roker

who the hell is that woman? That's Not Roxie Roker


Guest star maybe??? Where is that pic from Sol?

That was from the Jeffersons pilot that aired as an All in the Family episode. That woman is Madge Sinclair. She played Helen in the pilot but then Roxie Roker played her in the actual show. I don't know why that was done.

Guest star maybe??? Where is that pic from Sol?


I should have said "mystery pilot" because that episode is "The Jeffersons Move Up but that is not the real Helen.

The pic is from tv.com

That was from the Jeffersons pilot that aired as an All in the Family episode. That woman is Madge Sinclair. She played Helen in the pilot but then Roxie Roker played her in the actual show. I don't know why that was done.


Now I;m confused because I did remember seeing Made Sinclair in the closing credits of All in the Family. So there are two versions of the Jeffersons Pilot?

One with Madge and one with Roxie??? :confused:

The pilot episode of The Jeffersons appears in the fifth season of All in the Family, in episode #102, "The Jeffersons Move Up", aired January 11, 1975. The "second" pilot episode of the series, "A Friend in Need" was taped on December 13, 1974 and aired on January 18, 1975.

Also, an actress named Kim Hamilton played Helen during All In the Family episode "Lionel's Engagement":
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0358001/

Ms. Hamilton appeared later on in The Jeffersons playing a character named Pauline ("My Maid...My Wife" 1983).

Ms. Hamilton (according to IMDB) also played Betty on Good Times in the episode, "Florida's Rich Cousin".

Here is a youtube clip of Ms. Hamilton, the original Mr. Willis (played by another actor) and the original Jenny (played by someone else)...go to the 4:00 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjhzhK2zryg

Roxie Roker played Helen on the "Movin' On Up" episode on All In the Family, while Ms. Hamilton played Helen in the earlier episode "Lionel's Engagement".

I don't see credits for Madge Sinclair playing Helen on AITF.

That could be Helen. there is a Episode from season 1 where Helen has her in a bun kind of look like that.

That episode us Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jUdOM9MdItI#t=159s

Helen has that hairstyle in the Pilot(First episode of jeffersons) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCi9MNS5y1A

P..S: I kind of remember seeing that scene for reason. I am going to dig back trough season 1 Episodes

The pilot episode of The Jeffersons appears in the fifth season of All in the Family, in episode #102, "The Jeffersons Move Up", aired January 11, 1975. The "second" pilot episode of the series, "A Friend in Need" was taped on December 13, 1974 and aired on January 18, 1975.

Also, an actress named Kim Hamilton played Helen during All In the Family episode "Lionel's Engagement":
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0358001/

Ms. Hamilton appeared later on in The Jeffersons playing a character named Pauline ("My Maid...My Wife" 1983).

Ms. Hamilton (according to IMDB) also played Betty on Good Times in the episode, "Florida's Rich Cousin".

Here is a youtube clip of Ms. Hamilton, the original Mr. Willis (played by another actor) and the original Jenny (played by someone else)...go to the 4:00 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjhzhK2zryg

Roxie Roker played Helen on the "Movin' On Up" episode on All In the Family, while Ms. Hamilton played Helen in the earlier episode "Lionel's Engagement".

I don't see credits for Madge Sinclair playing Helen on AITF.



We already know all of that. My question was about Madge Sinclair. I seen the pilot on AITF and on the Jeffersons so it wasn't no need to post the youtube clip. If you was going to post a youtube clip it should have included Madge Sinclair

That could be Helen. there is a Episode from season 1 where Helen has her in a bun kind of look like that.

That episode us Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jUdOM9MdItI#t=159s

Helen has that hairstyle in the Pilot(First episode of jeffersons) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCi9MNS5y1A

P..S: I kind of remember seeing that scene for reason. I am going to dig back trough season 1 Episodes


Roxie Roker did not have her hair in a BUN on the pilot. That picture I posted was from the pilot not the 1st ep of the Jeffersons

We already know all of that. My question was about Madge Sinclair. I seen the pilot on AITF and on the Jeffersons so it wasn't no need to post the youtube clip. If you was going to post a youtube clip it should have included Madge Sinclair
Excuse me, I didn't realize it would bother you so much or that it was wrong for me to post that info. You didn't ask for any youtube clip featuring Madge Sinclair. I just posted that clip for the benefit of those who were interested.

Why not just bump up this thread?
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=288668

Excuse me. I didn't realize it would bother you so much.

Why not just bump up this thread?
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=288668



That was almost a year ago and I don't remember every single thread I started since august of 2011.

Fair enough.

As for the Helen Willis character, Madge Sinclair doesn't seem to be credited in her IMDB for that role, although IMDB is not always accurate. Roxie Roker IS credited for that pilot on AITF in her IMDB resume. I watched AITF once during its original run, so I cannot remember who I saw playing Helen nor can I recall the closing credits. TV.com has noted on one of their pages that Madge Sinclair was credited on the closing credits BUT Roxie was actually playing Helen. Is it possible that was in error? Was there one pilot taped with Madge, but she was let go and they brought in Roxie, but then mixed up the credits?

Fair enough.

As for the Helen Willis character, Madge Sinclair doesn't seem to be credited in her IMDB for that role, although IMDB is not always accurate. Roxie Roker IS credited for that pilot on AITF in her IMDB resume. I watched AITF once during its original run, so I cannot remember who I saw playing Helen nor can I recall the closing credits. TV.com has noted on one of their pages that Madge Sinclair was credited on the closing credits BUT Roxie was actually playing Helen. Is it possible that was in error? Was there one pilot taped with Madge, but she was let go and they brought in Roxie, but then mixed up the credits?


Yeah that was the confusing thing because I remember seeing Made Sinclair's name in the closing credits of All in the family too.

Okay, so you read Madge's name in the credits? Was she in the episode? Did you recognize her then or did you find out later it was Madge? I am confused. :lol:

Okay, so you read Madge's name in the credits? Was she in the episode? Did you recognize her then or did you find out later it was Madge? I am confused. :lol:


No when I watch the pilot on AITF I always wondered who was Madge Sinclair as Helen Willis because I never saw her but I now know what she looks like. Before I never knew why someone was credited for Helen Willis when it was Roxie Roker who played the part in the pilot

No when I watch the pilot on AITF I always wondered who was Madge Sinclair as Helen Willis because I never saw her but I now know what she looks like. Before I never knew why someone was credited for Helen Willis when it was Roxie Roker who played the part in the pilot
One of the original pilots may have had Madge Sinclair. CBS may have just made an error with the end credits.

No when I watch the pilot on AITF I always wondered who was Madge Sinclair as Helen Willis because I never saw her but I now know what she looks like. Before I never knew why someone was credited for Helen Willis when it was Roxie Roker who played the part in the pilot
Very interesting. So, Madge's name appears but she DID NOT appear at all in the episode? That is crazy.

Like I said, I haven't watch AITF in so long so I can't say much about the pilot, but let me ask this, does this pilot currently air in syndication? If so, is the name "Madge Sinclair" still in the credits or was it fixed?

Strange, I found the entire episode on YouTube with the closing and this closing does say Roxie Roker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI_3R0pw0k8

I do remember another video being take down over a year ago that said Madge Sinclair and when I saw this episode on Antenna TV it said Madge Sinclair. There must be more than one print available. This one on YouTube is longer, maybe it came from the DVD and they fixed it for that.

Very interesting. So, Madge's name appears but she DID NOT appear at all in the episode? That is crazy.

Like I said, I haven't watch AITF in so long so I can't say much about the pilot, but let me ask this, does this pilot currently air in syndication? If so, is the name "Madge Sinclair" still in the credits or was it fixed?


Yes Madge Sinclair name appears in syndication.

Strange, I found the entire episode on YouTube with the closing and this closing does say Roxie Roker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI_3R0pw0k8

I do remember another video being take down over a year ago that said Madge Sinclair and when I saw this episode on Antenna TV it said Madge Sinclair. There must be more than one print available. This one on YouTube is longer, maybe it came from the DVD and they fixed it for that.


Maybe it was changed for syndication or I seen it on a Columbia House Tape. I definitely remember seeing that woman's name

Yes Madge Sinclair name appears in syndication
That's crazy. Now you have me wanting to watch that episode just to see Madge's name at the end.

There must be more than one print available.
So, do you think they taped two pilots, one with Madge, and then goofed on the credits?

So, either Madge was considered the original Helen, but the execs decided against it because they decided she just wasn't "Helen" or, she opted to not play the role due to some better offers? Maybe she just didn't like the direction the show was going? I do remember reading an article where she gave an interview and she mentioned how she felt she never felt there was one role that allowed her acting to expand. I found that odd since she played alongside John Amos in "Roots", in a role I found to be outstanding and she showed great acting skills. Her performance was her best IMO. I am just thinking she perhaps felt the Jeffersons was not her speed.

That's crazy. Now you have me wanting to watch that episode just to see Madge's name at the end.


So, do you think they taped two pilots, one with Madge, and then goofed on the credits?

So, either Madge was considered the original Helen, but the execs decided against it because they decided she just wasn't "Helen" or, she opted to not play the role due to some better offers? Maybe she just didn't like the direction the show was going? I do remember reading an article where she gave an interview and she mentioned how she felt she never felt there was one role that allowed her acting to expand. I found that odd since she played alongside John Amos in "Roots", in a role I found to be outstanding and she showed great acting skills. Her performance was her best IMO. I am just thinking she perhaps felt the Jeffersons was not her speed.



I have a Fun TV Fact

Madge Sinclair starred in a sitcom with Steve Harvey in 1994.

Madge Sinclair starred in a sitcom with Steve Harvey in 1994.
It ran through 1995. She died in 1995. I am guessing Madge felt she had to do the show because she wasn't getting the roles she had hoped to get and bills had to be paid. Not to mention she suffered from Leukemia. Some actors sometimes take roles just to make sure they get their health benefits.

I never watched that show with Steve Harvey because I don't like him. I know someone who did make-up on him for a role and this acquaintance told me he was very aggressive with her, if you know what I mean. Mind you, the man was married at that time and here he was hitting on this lady. She tried to report him, but she was told if she did, she may not have her job much longer because there were plenty of other make-up artists who were ready to put up with anything for a paycheck. There is a reason he was divorced twice. Not to mention there was talk that he was possibly abusive to his wives.

It ran through 1995. She died in 1995. I am guessing Madge felt she had to do the show because she wasn't getting the roles she had hoped to get and bills had to be paid. Not to mention she suffered from Leukemia. Some actors sometimes take roles just to make sure they get their health benefits.

I never watched that show with Steve Harvey because I don't like him. I know someone who did make-up on him for a role and this acquaintance told me he was very aggressive with her, if you know what I mean. Mind you, the man was married at that time and here he was hitting on this lady. She tried to report him, but she was told if she did, she may not have her job much longer because there were plenty of other make-up artists who were ready to put up with anything for a paycheck. There is a reason he was divorced twice. Not to mention there was talk that he was possibly abusive to his wives.


I didn't see it because I was in college at the time.

Sorry to revive an old thread - this is great. The picture absolutely is of Madge Sinclair as Helen Willis.

For years in syndication, Madge Sinclair was credited as Helen in the closing credits of "The Jeffersons Move Up", but Roxie Roker appeared in the episode itself. When AITF ran on Nick at Nite in the 1990s, they finally corrected it.

Madge Sinclair was obviously cast as Helen Willis before Roxie Roker. One of two things must have happened: 1) Sinclair did rehearsals before leaving the show and this picture comes from a rehearsal (similar to how Sada Thompson originally played Irene Lorenzo at rehearsals and dropped out at the last minute). Or 2) They actually taped the pilot with Sinclair, and reshot her scene with Roxie Roker for reruns.

Sorry to revive an old thread - this is great. The picture absolutely is of Madge Sinclair as Helen Willis.

For years in syndication, Madge Sinclair was credited as Helen in the closing credits of "The Jeffersons Move Up", but Roxie Roker appeared in the episode itself. When AITF ran on Nick at Nite in the 1990s, they finally corrected it.

Madge Sinclair was obviously cast as Helen Willis before Roxie Roker. One of two things must have happened: 1) Sinclair did rehearsals before leaving the show and this picture comes from a rehearsal (similar to how Sada Thompson originally played Irene Lorenzo at rehearsals and dropped out at the last minute). Or 2) They actually taped the pilot with Sinclair, and reshot her scene with Roxie Roker for reruns.


Shout Factory should have added that pilot with Madge as another bonus feature in the DVD set

So there two pilots to The Jeffersons? Are they on YouTube?

So there two pilots to The Jeffersons? Are they on YouTube?


The without Roxie Roker was never seen. Only one on youtube is the one with Roxie Roker

who the hell is that woman? That's Not Roxie Roker


SHE'S BIGGER THAN TOM!!!
LMFAOOO

Watched “The Jeffersons Move Up” on Antenna TV yesterday, and they ran the print that credited Madge Sinclair as Helen Willis, even though Roxie Roker played the role. Weird.

Watched “The Jeffersons Move Up” on Antenna TV yesterday, and they ran the print that credited Madge Sinclair as Helen Willis, even though Roxie Roker played the role. Weird.


That AITF should be in the Jeffersons syndication package so that it makes sense to new fans of the show how the Jeffersons ended up in Manhattan

Sorry to revive this thread. Anyways, I saw the Lion King on ABC tonight and it had Madge Sinclair in it which reminded me of her credit on AITF. So I checked my recording from Catchy on frndly and it appears Catchy/MeTVs prints also indeed say Madge Sinclair in the credits.

Sorry to revive this thread. Anyways, I saw the Lion King on ABC tonight and it had Madge Sinclair in it which reminded me of her credit on AITF. So I checked my recording from Catchy on frndly and it appears Catchy/MeTVs prints also indeed say Madge Sinclair in the credits.

The ongoing mystery:lol:

Anyone got this book, came out in 2022. Maybe it has some answers.


https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71JnTKB+C5L._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg

Anyone got this book, came out in 2022. Maybe it has some answers.


https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71JnTKB+C5L._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg

Im look for it on Amazon

Anyone got this book, came out in 2022. Maybe it has some answers.


https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71JnTKB+C5L._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg

Found it. 9.99 on Kindle

Anyone got this book, came out in 2022. Maybe it has some answers.


https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71JnTKB+C5L._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg

Just bought it Im going to read it tomorrow

Anyone got this book, came out in 2022. Maybe it has some answers.


https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71JnTKB+C5L._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg

Reading this book now and so far Im not too pleased. I am only see things I already know but hopefully it gets better