What are some missing pieces of evidence that could help convict someone like Kurt Sova's right shoe, he was the teenager that went to a party at a house and was found dead behind the building a few days afterwards missing a shoe which had similarities to another death of a boy and Philip Fraser's belongings which must have been dumped by the hitchhiker he picked up on his way to college travelling through Canada. Is there anything that could be found for sale/dumped somewhere someday?

I think the most obvious one is the Mac involved in the Tom Johnson case. If that had been found, so, most likely, would the killer have been.

What are some missing pieces of evidence that could help convict someone like Kurt Sova's right shoe, he was the teenager that went to a party at a house and was found dead behind the building a few days afterwards missing a shoe which had similarities to another death of a boy and Philip Fraser's belongings which must have been dumped by the hitchhiker he picked up on his way to college travelling through Canada. Is there anything that could be found for sale/dumped somewhere someday?

I don't think finding Kurt's right shoe would have solved anything. Most of us on here have come to a conclusion that he died from drinking too much and then possibly falling into a coma/dehydrating. Maybe someone could have made him drink or take other drugs (?), but I at least think he did a lot of the drinking by his own choice.

Awhile ago, someone linked a newspaper article from 1991 that stated Kurt had a person of age buy him a fifth of Everclear on the day he was to go to that party: that was something that was never mentioned in the UM segment.

I think the most obvious one is the Mac involved in the Tom Johnson case. If that had been found, so, most likely, would the killer have been.
There aren't many on sale on the web so I would think that most have been replaced by now.

I don't think finding Kurt's right shoe would have solved anything. Most of us on here have come to a conclusion that he died from drinking too much and then possibly falling into a coma/dehydrating. Maybe someone could have made him drink or take other drugs (?), but I at least think he did a lot of the drinking by his own choice.

Awhile ago, someone linked a newspaper article from 1991 that stated Kurt had a person of age buy him a fifth of Everclear on the day he was to go to that party: that was something that was never mentioned in the UM segment.

I don't think his death was murder but if they found his shoe in a secret room that belonged to a known killer I would change my mind.

I don't think his death was murder but if they found his shoe in a secret room that belonged to a known killer I would change my mind.

Honestly, the other shoe was probably just somewhere in the duplex. It was either there or it fell off when two guys carried his body out to the ravine (the 1991 newspaper article said some neighbors saw two guys carrying Kurt's body that afternoon, but they just thought he must have been drunk and didn't call the police or anything).

The Newburgh Heights police department never scoped out the duplex or did any real investigating because they were lazy and corrupt. They should have handed the case over to the greater Cleveland police department the day Kurt was reported missing if any real investigating was going to be done.

A lot of us on here believe that Kurt was in the basement for most of the five days that he was "missing" (passed out/in a coma or the like). His parents never actually looked around in the duplex until that phone call at 3AM where the girl told them that Kurt was in the basment. They probably moved him into another room (I think he was dead by then) in the duplex or into the trunk of one of their cars when Kurt's dad came over and went into the basement.

There aren't many on sale on the web so I would think that most have been replaced by now.

Note that I used past tense. If it had been found closer to the time, I think the crime would have been solved.

Dale Kerstetter's .22 caliber handgun could help solve his case if found.

Justin Burgwinkel's handguns he purchased before disappearing.

The bullets that killed Chad Langford. So suprised they didn't search the whole crime scene to recover them. If they really weren't at the scene, that actually indicates murder, not suicide.

Dale Kerstetter's .22 caliber handgun could help solve his case if found.

The bullets that killed Chad Langford. So suprised they didn't search the whole crime scene to recover them. If they really weren't at the scene, that actually indicates murder, not suicide.

It's a shame ballistics can't identify a gun from where the firing pin hits the shell case.

One thing is that Dale's gun will/has probably outlived him.

Another thing that disappeared was Gus Hoffman's Harley that he restored but bikers were convicted of killing him for, I think they said it was sold as parts but it's possible someone is riding it now not knowing it's history.

The glasses left behind by Harold and Thelma Swain's killer. Unsolved Mysteries lost the pair sometime after the episode was produced.

The glasses left behind by Harold and Thelma Swain's killer. Unsolved Mysteries lost the pair sometime after the episode was produced.
Thankfully that one was solved, but it's a shame that the glasses got lost.

The rings from the two Mary Morris murders they were thought to have been killed by a hitman one death was possibly a mistake or a cover up but I think both had their wedding rings taken as proof of their deaths.

Thankfully that one was solved, but it's a shame that the glasses got lost.

Actually, the problem with this one is that these glasses could have possibly exonerated Dennis Perry, the man who's currently in prison for the crime. This was apparently an incredibly shoddy investigaton and a lot of people think that Perry is innocent. If these glasses had been around at trial and proven not to be Perry's size or prescription, he might not have been convicted and the glasses could still be used to help track down the real killer.

In terms of losing crucial evidence, however, I'm not sure anyone can top the police investigating Debbie Wolfe's death, who managed to lose an entire BARREL, and then tried to pretend it never existed!

In terms of losing crucial evidence, however, I'm not sure anyone can top the police investigating Debbie Wolfe's death, who managed to lose an entire BARREL, and then tried to pretend it never existed!

It's a shame the people that found the body didn't touch the barrel to make sure.

Don Kemp left his car and walked into the desert and was thought to have died a few days later, but a friend claims he phoned her and left messages on her answering machine asking her to phone him 5 months after he disappeared but presumably she deleted them because we don't hear them, they trace the phone call to a caravan in a town where some people think they've seen him but the police don't believe it and his body is discovered near wher he disappeared three years later.

Actually, the problem with this one is that these glasses could have possibly exonerated Dennis Perry, the man who's currently in prison for the crime. This was apparently an incredibly shoddy investigaton and a lot of people think that Perry is innocent. If these glasses had been around at trial and proven not to be Perry's size or prescription, he might not have been convicted and the glasses could still be used to help track down the real killer.


Perry they said has 20/20 vision and wouldn't have even needed the glasses in question. He might spend the rest of his life in prison at this point.

Actually, the problem with this one is that these glasses could have possibly exonerated Dennis Perry, the man who's currently in prison for the crime. This was apparently an incredibly shoddy investigaton and a lot of people think that Perry is innocent. If these glasses had been around at trial and proven not to be Perry's size or prescription, he might not have been convicted and the glasses could still be used to help track down the real killer.

In terms of losing crucial evidence, however, I'm not sure anyone can top the police investigating Debbie Wolfe's death, who managed to lose an entire BARREL, and then tried to pretend it never existed!
Wow, I didn't know that! Thanks for the information, RobinW! I remember hearing that the investigation was poor. Someone on here mentioned that the PD lost the glasses and then accused UM of losing them.

I agree that Debbie Wolfe's death is one of the ones that takes the cake here. Worst police ever. That was a murder, plain and simple. And I think one or both of the hospital volunteers is responsible.

The pearl handed gun used to kill Stanley Gryziec he was killed in his own home possibly because of the drugs that were being sold at a bar he had an interest in, one of his brothers told him a secret when he was on his deathbed which could have been about drugs and when he tried to stop it he could have been killed, the police first thought he was stabbed and that only two beers had been stolen but his relatives found a bullet under a rug in the house.

Going back to Dale Kerstetter if he was in on it and possibly the mastermind maybe he was killed by his accomplices after they realised he couldn't find a buyer for the Platinum and that some of it could still exist somewhere.

I agree that Debbie Wolfe's death is one of the ones that takes the cake here. Worst police ever. That was a murder, plain and simple. And I think one or both of the hospital volunteers is responsible.

Probably the UM case that makes me the angriest largely because of the arrogance/obvious malfeasance of the chief of police. One of his deputies even acknowledged that there was a barrel. But rather than admit that they screwed up, they concocted a ridiculous story that it was her jacket ballooning underwater. Never mind the fact that she wasn't wearing the proper size clothes, or that they found drag marks in the water, or the coroner didn't see the typical signs of drowning in her autopsy. She clearly just jumped in and sank like a rock, never to be seen alive again. :rolleyes:

The rings from the two Mary Morris murders they were thought to have been killed by a hitman one death was possibly a mistake or a cover up but I think both had their wedding rings taken as proof of their deaths.

The wedding ring from the second Mary Morris (Mary Mcginnis Morris) was found on the finger of Katy Morris, her daughter about 6 months or so after. She used the reason that her mother had another fake set of rings that she wore. Mike Morris refused to have her interviewed by detectives around the time of the murders.

The wedding ring from the second Mary Morris (Mary Mcginnis Morris) was found on the finger of Katy Morris, her daughter about 6 months or so after. She used the reason that her mother had another fake set of rings that she wore. Mike Morris refused to have her interviewed by detectives around the time of the murders.

I've heard of people taking their wedding rings off but having a fake set is new to me, I wonder if anyone else knew this before the murder.

I've heard of people taking their wedding rings off but having a fake set is new to me, I wonder if anyone else knew this before the murder.

This ring finding was discussed between myself and my coworker RN at the little York site and it was not brought up by her that she had another set. The lady that noticed Mary's ring on her daughters finger was allegedly horrified and notified detectives. She was one of Mary's best friends.

Probably the UM case that makes me the angriest largely because of the arrogance/obvious malfeasance of the chief of police. One of his deputies even acknowledged that there was a barrel. But rather than admit that they screwed up, they concocted a ridiculous story that it was her jacket ballooning underwater. Never mind the fact that she wasn't wearing the proper size clothes, or that they found drag marks in the water, or the coroner didn't see the typical signs of drowning in her autopsy. She clearly just jumped in and sank like a rock, never to be seen alive again. :rolleyes:


THAT case was crazy. Her coat ballooning out:lol: yeah ok and then the clothes..her bra was 3 cups sizes larger, I think? Wrong size shoes etc.

I've heard of people taking their wedding rings off but having a fake set is new to me, I wonder if anyone else knew this before the murder.


I know people who have multiple wedding bands. Some are inherited, some are really anniversary bands. If I'm traveling someplace it might be an issue, or doing work that it might get it the way, I tend to replace my wedding set with a simpler ring like a claddagh, since a claddagh still indicates marital status.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claddagh_ring

I know people who have multiple wedding bands. Some are inherited, some are really anniversary bands. If I'm traveling someplace it might be an issue, or doing work that it might get it the way, I tend to replace my wedding set with a simpler ring like a claddagh, since a claddagh still indicates marital status.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claddagh_ring

I do the same thing! My second ring is actually made of silicone. I switch out my actual wedding set with it whenever I'm working in a clinical environment, at the gym, or working in the backyard.

The computer from the Apple Computer murder. At the time of the murder, I can't image it would be easy to unload it. Someone bought that thing from Tom Johnson. It's time to come forward.

The computer from the Apple Computer murder. At the time of the murder, I can't image it would be easy to unload it. Someone bought that thing from Tom Johnson. It's time to come forward.

Yeah, what did he do, use it, then dump it? Did anyone see him using it or find it dumped anywhere?

Plenty of evidence has gone missing from the John F. Kennedy and Robert F. Kennedy assassinations. Particularly there was supposedly a set of photographs from Parkland hospital showing the original wounds before possible alteration.

As far as missing evidence goes, I've always been curious about that green trap which supposedly covered Don Henry and Kevin Ives when they were run over by the train before it mysteriously disappeared. Since neither of the boys owned a green tarp, it would have been interesting to see if they could have traced it to the killer.

I do the same thing! My second ring is actually made of silicone. I switch out my actual wedding set with it whenever I'm working in a clinical environment, at the gym, or working in the backyard.


Where'd you get a silicone ring? That would be great for when I'm using power tools.

Where'd you get a silicone ring? That would be great for when I'm using power tools.

Amazon! The manufacturer's name is Qalo. I think I paid about $15 for the whole thing including S&H. Plus it comes with a little mesh bag you can zip it up in and clip to your bag, backpack, etc. Lots of different colors, too.

In terms of losing crucial evidence, however, I'm not sure anyone can top the police investigating Debbie Wolfe's death, who managed to lose an entire BARREL, and then tried to pretend it never existed!

The Cumberland County Sheriffs Department is ultimately responsible for the fact that the crime scene was not secured during and after the recovery of Debbie Wolfe. However the decision to leave the barrel in place and drain the pond was logical. The barrel in its original location would have provided a start point for the search and gathering of additional evidence.

The barrel itself probably didn't provide any useable evidence other than it existed unless something was left inside. Anybody ever try to lift prints off of a rusty barrel? Much less one that has been soaking in a pond? Things that could have been identifiable include watches, bracelets, rings and necklaces. If they were found in the barrel or in the vicinity. These are things that people can lose handling a barrel.

The prevailing theories presented on the episode:
1. The killer(s) came back and retrieved it.
2. There was no barrel.

For years there were rumors that well meaning friends of the family heard Jenny wanted the barrel. They recovered it and lost it during transport. There weren't any names associated with these rumors. However I find them more believable than the two prevalent theories.

DEBBIE WOLFE missing evidence pt 2

Sundrop starting posting about biological evidence in this case in 2012. They gave updates until 2014.

Here is information from a Fayetteville Observer 2019 article.
Lt Sean Swain, a spokesman for the Sheriff's Office, said because WOLFE's death was deemed an accident the records were purged.
"We do not have anyone now who was working in '86. They have all retired, so we cannot speak on this event," Swain said this month in an email.

Source: The Body in the Barrel by Michael Futch October 26, 2019. 11:30 AM updated 3:24 PM EST.
mfutch@fayobserver.com

There are some errors in this article so I recommend the thread Debbie Wolfe articles posted by Justin5256.

In addition to the barrel the entire case file is now missing courtesy of Cumberland County Sheriff's department.

The clothes Debbie was found in in were given to her mother in spring of 1986. They are missing now.
The loss of all of the physical evidence is a severe blow to the case, to Debbie's friends and to the Cumberland County detectives who actually did their jobs gathering and documenting evidence until the case was suddenly turned over to the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation.

Sundrop is said to have the single largest collection of information on this case. At some point they stopped sharing this information and appear to no longer have an active role.

Sundrop I am asking you to dust yourself off and get back in the saddle.