Anybody remember this episode? Where this lady and her daughter are driving around and they keep think they are seeing her army brother (thought to be long dead) at a gas station and at the Vietnam memorial and DC?

The same episode where she put in his social security number in some computer and some guy supposedly put a gun to her back and told her to knock it off?

Any opinions on this episode. Ive read on this before as being one of the silliest UM episodes, but who do you all think the lady and her daughter were seeing, and even if this 'guy' wasn't really her brother, why did he seem to be communicating non-verbally with her?

Any opionions?? Thanks

Yeah, I remember this. The soldier's name was Curt (or Kurt?) Borton Jr.

I think when I first saw this segment as a youngster, I believed that he had been recruited into some secret mission or lifestyle.

However, the older I get and the more thought I have given it, I just don't think it adds up. Wasn't the army interviewed about all of this on the program and they denied that Borton had any special qualifications that would make him a candidate for any secret ops?

I think the biggest problem I have is the woman's story about seeing him at the Wall in DC. I know she says she was concerned about her safety, but I just can't wrap my mind around her not approaching the guy if she truly thought he was her long lost brother.

Granted, I don't think the family was lying about any of this. I just think they were seeing what they wanted to see.

I'm torn on this story. I believe the gvmt does things- a lot of things that are top secret and we will never(and don't need to) know. So I do believe it's possible.

But It really is most likely them seeing what they want to see and nothing else.

Yeah, I remember this. The soldier's name was Curt (or Kurt?) Borton Jr.

I think when I first saw this segment as a youngster, I believed that he had been recruited into some secret mission or lifestyle.

However, the older I get and the more thought I have given it, I just don't think it adds up. Wasn't the army interviewed about all of this on the program and they denied that Borton had any special qualifications that would make him a candidate for any secret ops?

I think the biggest problem I have is the woman's story about seeing him at the Wall in DC. I know she says she was concerned about her safety, but I just can't wrap my mind around her not approaching the guy if she truly thought he was her long lost brother.



Granted, I don't think the family was lying about any of this. I just think they were seeing what they wanted to see.


Maybe it wasn't neccessarily secret ops, I've always wondered if the military has a witness protection program for recruits who witness something they aren't supposed to see, maybe not something with our own military but something with terrorists or even a foreign nation, and are place in such a program for their own safety once they get out of the military. Who knows?

Yeah, I remember this. The soldier's name was Curt (or Kurt?) Borton Jr.

I think when I first saw this segment as a youngster, I believed that he had been recruited into some secret mission or lifestyle.

However, the older I get and the more thought I have given it, I just don't think it adds up. Wasn't the army interviewed about all of this on the program and they denied that Borton had any special qualifications that would make him a candidate for any secret ops?

I think the biggest problem I have is the woman's story about seeing him at the Wall in DC. I know she says she was concerned about her safety, but I just can't wrap my mind around her not approaching the guy if she truly thought he was her long lost brother.

Granted, I don't think the family was lying about any of this. I just think they were seeing what they wanted to see.

Are you sure about that JS? For me this case was one of the more obvious hoax cases in the history of UM. There is that possibility obviously that the family was so invested in the idea that Curt Borton was still alive that they were starting to read too much into everyday situations but I think the possibility of a hoax is also likely.

Are you sure about that JS? For me this case was one of the more obvious hoax cases in the history of UM. There is that possibility obviously that the family was so invested in the idea that Curt Borton was still alive that they were starting to read too much into everyday situations but I think the possibility of a hoax is also likely.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I believe they were sincere in their belief that Borton was alive. The evidence they presented to support that belief is flimsy and questionable, but the thought that they perpetuated some sort of a hoax never entered my mind.

This one always weirded me out.

Truth be told, I believe that grieving families will grasp at any and all straws to simply find solace and hope against hope that their lost loved ones are still alive or in other instances often featured on UM, did not commit suicide but were rather murdered etc. I don't blame them whatsoever, however I'm often tenative to place too much credence in many of these cases that seem to defy odds and logic...

WITH THAT SAID, there have been oh so many UM episodes where there feels like there's more to the story to simply discount them and especially when I hear that the government and military are involved, I'm far more open to suspicion and conspiracy theories...maybe I've read too many James Ellroy novels, but I never take the words of the CIA and other likeminded gov't agencies as gospel(far from it) and am always interested in a deeper look.

I really don't know what to make out of this particular case, but I don't write it off completely as just a grieving family grasping at straws. This one isn't as iron-clad as some of the UM episodes where suicides have been uncovered to be murders after all(correlating the family's response and desperation for further desparation) but I don't think this is too far-fetched when you read novels about CIA spooks etc.

I definitely agree that Curt Borton died in Vietnam and that the family was simply just seeing what they wanted to see most of the time, such as with the magazine photograph and the supposed sightings of Curt in Washington. However, assuming that they're not flat-out lying about everything, I just don't know what to make of those DOD agents approaching Curt's father in public to get him to sign a document declaring Curt legally dead and then sending him a $43,000 check. Unless Curt's father just happened to earn $43,000 in a not-so-legal way and dreamed up with a very elaborate story to explain how he got it :lol: .

I also find it funny that even though the military usually declined to participate in UM segments about possible cover-ups, here they had no hesitation about letting a spokesperson appear on camera to deny it, as if to say: "Whatever, we got nothing to hide on this one".

Those pictures that the family believed to be Curt, looked NOTHING like him at all to me. And why would the government keep Curt sheltered for this long, all the while keeping the ruse going that he was dead? Especially if he was 19 years old with only eight months military service at the time he was declared dead. What exactly could Curt Borton have on the military that would warrant them to keep him alive and hidden for over 40 years? I just don't believe it.

I definitely agree that Curt Borton died in Vietnam and that the family was simply just seeing what they wanted to see most of the time, such as with the magazine photograph and the supposed sightings of Curt in Washington. However, assuming that they're not flat-out lying about everything, I just don't know what to make of those DOD agents approaching Curt's father in public to get him to sign a document declaring Curt legally dead and then sending him a $43,000 check.

It could have been innocent. The guys could have wanted to declare him dead to "get it off the books" so to say. There were a lot of people MIA in Vietnam, and I would wager 90% of them were KIA and just never found (as opposed to being captured, etc.) It could be that the military was simply reviewing all MIA cases and came across Kurt. They probably reviewed it and figured that even though they had no body, there was strong enough evidence to go ahead and declare him KIA instead of MIA.

In any case, my point is that just because the father got visited by the military doesn't mean his son was a secret agent. There are other possible explanations.

Now for a story: My father was in Vietnam in the Army's 1st Cavalry in 66-67 (drafted out of High school). He told a story about how he and another guy were sitting in the jungle eating their C-rations one day. Suddenly he heard a thud and noticed the guy beside him went down (it was the platoon's Lieutenant). He had been hit by a sniper. Then the guys in his platoon started firing back. At any rate, after the firefight was over, someone told him "look at your shirt." He looked down and noticed he had the dead guy's brains all over it. He thought to himself "God that could have been me, why didn't the sniper pick me?" He told me that after a few months in his tour, he just learned to accept that some bullet somewhere probably had his name on it and he would never get out alive. Luckily he made it through.

He told me the Lieutenant's name (the one who got hit by the sniper), so I went and looked it up on Google. (My father only told me Vietnam stories when he had been drinking, so I wanted to check it out). Indeed I found this guy's name on the list of the KIA in Vietnam and verified that my father's memory was spot on. While google searching, I also found an Internet post by someone saying "I want to find anyone who served with my father, Lt. so-in-so." So, the son of the guy killed by the sniper was looking for people who knew his dad. It is very likely this guy never got to meet his father, so I wanted to respond. In fact, I was also doing the same thing (looking for people who knew my dad, as my dad had just passed away at the time). I tried to respond to the guy on the forum but his e-mail address had been changed. It kinda made me sad because I wanted to tell him how much my father liked and respected him. He told me it was the only death (of many) he witnessed that "really got to him."

Sorry for the digression, but I thought this story fit into the thread. :)

Whether or not Curt is still alive I really don't know, however I think there is much more to this story than a family simply not being able to come to terms with their son's death. At least in my opinion, whenever there is suspicion of a military or government cover-up, I sincerely believe that it's the truth, because there have been many UM segments where they have called people liars (or even become hostile in some cases) whenever civilians have compelling evidence that could potentially expose some less-than-kosher goings-on within the military or government. I'm not sure whether or not anybody remembers this particular segment, but there was a guy named Glenn Dennis who, back in 1947, believed he came upon evidence of the existence of aliens in connection with the infamous Roswell incident, and when a military officer found out about that, the officer threatened Glenn Dennis with death if he didn't keep his mouth shut, and I unfortunately don't believe that to be an isolated incident. IMO, occurrences like that are probably more common than we'd probably like to think, and getting back to the Curt Borton case, I found it deeply disturbing when Diane Borton's cousin was approached by that guy who poked a gun in his stomach and coolly threatened him because he'd come upon evidence that Curt might still be alive. If there is some kind of cover-up, which I believe there is, the gun-toting guy is definitely part of it. I just can't imagine a complete stranger with no knowledge of or connection to the case being responsible for such a bizarre and disturbing incident.

It could have been innocent. The guys could have wanted to declare him dead to "get it off the books" so to say. There were a lot of people MIA in Vietnam, and I would wager 90% of them were KIA and just never found (as opposed to being captured, etc.) It could be that the military was simply reviewing all MIA cases and came across Kurt. They probably reviewed it and figured that even though they had no body, there was strong enough evidence to go ahead and declare him KIA instead of MIA.

But if that's the case, I don't know why they would keep approaching Kurt's father in public places. If they had just come to his home in a professional manner and asked him to legally declare his son dead, he probably would have signed the document the first time without hesitation. And is it normal procedure for the government to pay a family thousands of dollars to declare their son KIA?

Either Curt's father completely made this story up or there is something screwy about this case.

The one thing that's making me not want to completely doubt the family's story is the man who approached the cousin (who worked for a security company and looked up Curt's social security number) and pulled a gun on him and told him to never do something like that again. That right there is either one of the most remarkable coincidences ever and the man who drew the gun approached the wrong guy, or the cousin was legitimately threatened for looking into information on Curt Borton. Of course the guy could be making the whole thing up, but what motive what he have in doing that? And wasn't the other cousin being followed? IIRC, he approached the car that was following him and confronted them and then he was never followed again. That is another weird little tidbit about this story that makes the family more believable, IMO.

The one thing that's making me not want to completely doubt the family's story is the man who approached the cousin (who worked for a security company and looked up Curt's social security number) and pulled a gun on him and told him to never do something like that again. That right there is either one of the most remarkable coincidences ever and the man who drew the gun approached the wrong guy, or the cousin was legitimately threatened for looking into information on Curt Borton. Of course the guy could be making the whole thing up, but what motive what he have in doing that? And wasn't the other cousin being followed? IIRC, he approached the car that was following him and confronted them and then he was never followed again. That is another weird little tidbit about this story that makes the family more believable, IMO.

It's funny how two people can watch the same thing and get two completely different reactions to it. Nearly everything you just posted Cars, is exactly why I find this segment so unbelievable. The whole thing seems like it's ripped right out of the pages of a suspense novel.

Private citizens having guns pulled on them in broad daylight, strange encounters with shady individuals, people being followed by individuals alluded to be some type of black ops agents.

The whole segment reads as if it was ripped from a rejected script of an episode of "Alias" or something along those lines.

As to why someone would make this all up? Simple: publicity.

right,why would they approach his father in public? that doesn't make any sense.
IF this story is true,and I have no opinion on it either way...then the family knows more than was revealed on UM,seeing as the sister said she was afraid to approach Curt at the memorial,due to something someone said about him being dangerous (which doesn't make any sense,esp. since they were in public).so who would know something and why would they say it,and what did they say?
I don't put too much stock into the gas station sighting...lots of goofy ppl say weird things sometimes just to get attn,and could have followed her for the same reason.doesn't mean it was Curt.I also don't get why they wouldn't have followed the car off the exit ramp if they really thought it might be Curt.just a lot of things don't add up,but I'm not ready to dismiss it all yet.I don't think anyone will ever know what the truth is on this one.I don't put much stock into the pics though...a family really wanting to see their loved one could easily fool themselves into thinking it was him.jmo.

I do wonder about the computer incident..was there really any way to tell for sure,esp. back then,who and exactly WHERE, entered a SS no. into a computer,and if so,why wasn't that info erased bf anyone could have a chance to do it,if it was so important?

I always get a kick out of the re-enactment when the guy that played Brad Bishop approached the cousin but he didn't want to be IDed and his lines were just "Hey, How you doin?" and the dialogue sounded off

It's funny how two people can watch the same thing and get two completely different reactions to it. Nearly everything you just posted Cars, is exactly why I find this segment so unbelievable. The whole thing seems like it's ripped right out of the pages of a suspense novel.

Private citizens having guns pulled on them in broad daylight, strange encounters with shady individuals, people being followed by individuals alluded to be some type of black ops agents.

The whole segment reads as if it was ripped from a rejected script of an episode of "Alias" or something along those lines.

As to why someone would make this all up? Simple: publicity.

I couldn't agree with you more, DarkDante. I've addressed the claims made by the family in this case in another post; they just don't seem to hold water.

I always get a kick out of the re-enactment when the guy that played Brad Bishop approached the cousin but he didn't want to be IDed and his lines were just "Hey, How you doin?" and the dialogue sounded off

Lol, I noticed that too.

I couldn't agree with you more, DarkDante. I've addressed the claims made by the family in this case in another post; they just don't seem to hold water.

What about the father's claim that after he signed a document he received a$43,000 check in the mail? Usually, UM would say something like, "Curt's father claimed to have received a check..." but the segment seemed to verify the existence of the check. Which is an unusually large amount of money just to declare someone dead. Trust me, I think Curt's family are grasping at straws sometimes because I honestly think he died in Vietnam. But what about the check? Every other incident could have been fabricated, but the check seems to verify at least a portion of the family's story to prove that they are not totally making it up or grasping at straws.

What about the father's claim that after he signed a document he received a$43,000 check in the mail? Usually, UM would say something like, "Curt's father claimed to have received a check..." but the segment seemed to verify the existence of the check. Which is an unusually large amount of money just to declare someone dead. Trust me, I think Curt's family are grasping at straws sometimes because I honestly think he died in Vietnam. But what about the check? Every other incident could have been fabricated, but the check seems to verify at least a portion of the family's story to prove that they are not totally making it up or grasping at straws.

Interesting. I don't know what to make of the claim other than it's intriguing. See the thing is for me at least the whole segment is a sham. Now granted I may be predisposed to that viewpoint going in but truthfully nothing in regards to distortions or fabrications would surprise me in regards to this segment.

The only thing I'm positive of is that Curt Borton died in Vietnam. Yes there is always that one in one millionth chance that he could still be alive but even so I don't believe the scenarios presented in this segment for one second.

Interesting. I don't know what to make of the claim other than it's intriguing. See the thing is for me at least the whole segment is a sham. Now granted I may be predisposed to that viewpoint going in but truthfully nothing in regards to distortions or fabrications would surprise me in regards to this segment.

The only thing I'm positive of is that Curt Borton died in Vietnam. Yes there is always that one in one millionth chance that he could still be alive but even so I don't believe the scenarios presented in this segment for one second.

I don't think I'd go so far as to say the whole segment was a sham. I do feel that the family genuinely believed Borton Jr. survived Vietnam.

I think it's possible that their belief in his survival began with and was fueled by the discovery of those two photographs. We have seen this before on other UM cases involving POWs/MIAs who are recognized in photos. I believe that there have even been "updates" in some of those cases about the actual soldiers in the photos being identified later on, and they always turn out to be ringers.

Beyond that, I do think it's possible that the family exaggerated and possibly even fabricated some of the "evidence", probably to give their beliefs more weight and perhaps even to attract UM's attention. Seeking out UM was likely a means to further their cause to find Borton. Let's face it though, the other MIA/POW cases featured on UM were even weaker and more circumstantial than Borton's (IMO) whereas this case had a lot of cloak and dagger mystique that was almost tailor made for good television. How could UM refuse given all the incredible twists and turns?

However, all of the above being said, I do believe that their belief in Borton Jr.'s survival was entirely legitimate.

I don't think I'd go so far as to say the whole segment was a sham. I do feel that the family genuinely believed Borton Jr. survived Vietnam.

I think it's possible that their belief in his survival began with and was fueled by the discovery of those two photographs. We have seen this before on other UM cases involving POWs/MIAs who are recognized in photos. I believe that there have even been "updates" in some of those cases about the actual soldiers in the photos being identified later on, and they always turn out to be ringers.

Beyond that, I do think it's possible that the family exaggerated and possibly even fabricated some of the "evidence", probably to give their beliefs more weight and perhaps even to attract UM's attention. Seeking out UM was likely a means to further their cause to find Borton. Let's face it though, the other MIA/POW cases featured on UM were even weaker and more circumstantial than Borton's (IMO) whereas this case had a lot of cloak and dagger mystique that was almost tailor made for good television. How could UM refuse given all the incredible twists and turns?

However, all of the above being said, I do believe that their belief in Borton Jr.'s survival was entirely legitimate.

Perhaps initially but beyond that I'm not buying it. You basically said it yourself with your reference to "cloak and dagger" theatrics. It is what it is, this segment in my opinion was a script written for television. A script mind you that we've seen done better several times over in both film and television.

What about the father's claim that after he signed a document he received a$43,000 check in the mail? Usually, UM would say something like, "Curt's father claimed to have received a check..." but the segment seemed to verify the existence of the check. Which is an unusually large amount of money just to declare someone dead. Trust me, I think Curt's family are grasping at straws sometimes because I honestly think he died in Vietnam. But what about the check? Every other incident could have been fabricated, but the check seems to verify at least a portion of the family's story to prove that they are not totally making it up or grasping at straws.

What about it? Without more beyond his word that this even occurred and no way to examine either the document the father signed or verify the money was actually deposited, there's nothing that can be said.

I find it hard to believe that a check for 43K would be sent thru the mail,unless it was registered mail.I would venture to say if they wanted him to sign the document as much as the father claimed they did,they would have had a check or even cash right there on them,to give to him on the spot.
That said,if this were so,I can't see the military leaving a paper trail at all,via a check.And why such an odd amount? why not 45 or even 50K? that's odd.

I ALWAYS disregarded the family, as I brought up in other posts, because the sister reminded me so much of this thing my mom would do that would aggravate me, lol. The willfully ignorant way she conducted herself during the alleged sightings of her brother. Even her daughter is challenging her to go and confront the man and the mom refuses. She refused because once the guy she goes up to loudly says "I'm not your brother, get away from me crazy lady" then her bs claims go out the window. Its impossible to verify that he isn't her brother if she just keeps avoiding "him" as he follows her around.

I mean really he just hangs out at the Vietnam Memorial...just ont he off chance she goes there? Or better yet he's following her around all the time but wants to make a dramatic appearance at the memorial. That's a very theatrical way of remaining killed in action.

Speaking of theatrical, on thing I found hilarious during the segment, and ultimately about their whole story, was the phone call from someone asking about the family's babysitter or something?? Hahaha what was that even supposed to prove?? Also I LOVED how UM had the Curt character sitting half-in, half-out of the shadows....like that's how that guy always walks around. Because he's just that mysterious.

I ALWAYS disregarded the family, as I brought up in other posts, because the sister reminded me so much of this thing my mom would do that would aggravate me, lol. The willfully ignorant way she conducted herself during the alleged sightings of her brother. Even her daughter is challenging her to go and confront the man and the mom refuses. She refused because once the guy she goes up to loudly says "I'm not your brother, get away from me crazy lady" then her bs claims go out the window. Its impossible to verify that he isn't her brother if she just keeps avoiding "him" as he follows her around.

I mean really he just hangs out at the Vietnam Memorial...just ont he off chance she goes there? Or better yet he's following her around all the time but wants to make a dramatic appearance at the memorial. That's a very theatrical way of remaining killed in action.


Exactly I mean the whole thing is hilarious. It borders on the absurd. I understand people saying that at one point the Bortons believed that Curt didn't perish in Vietnam but they either took this belief to an extreme level or they are flat out embellishing into essentially what has become fabrication.

I mean Cork basically said it all with his post. "hanging around at the Vietnam memorial", the dude with the gun, being followed to work by the black ops government officials. It was as if someone had a handbook of various things an author would want to include in writing a "spy novel" and went down that list checking them off one by one for inclusion in the segment. Ridiculous!

the sis is nuts,imo.the guys on the highway sound like men just checking out women.didn't see anything that interested them,so they drove on.
and how would her kids even know what Curt looked like now? recall he went missing when he was still just a kid at age 19.even if he were still alive,he would have looked a lot different,esp. to someone who had never even met him.
I would think this would be an easy case to solve,esp. with the teeth and dna nowadays.in fact I bet it already has been.the family just doesn't want to accept it.

Maybe the kids saw the soldier in the picture. You know the one in the photo they claimed was Curt but was already identified by the army as another soldier. That to me was the thing that actually was kind of pathetic, the fact they claimed those pictures where Curt when he didn't look much like the pictures and the soldiers were already indentified. To me their whole credibilty crumbled because of that.

What about it? Without more beyond his word that this even occurred and no way to examine either the document the father signed or verify the money was actually deposited, there's nothing that can be said.

The thing is, this would have been the easiest thing for the military to call B.S. on, and they didn't. I just don't see why the family would go through all of this trouble to lie, exaggerate, and/or fabricate parts of their story. Unless they legitimately believed that Borton was still alive and maybe they padded some of their details with the hopes that the "cloak and dagger" aspects of their story would garner some attention But I honestly think that the family did have some legitimate odd occurrences (such as the check) that added some credibility to their speculation that Curt was alive.

I thought they did call BS on it by saying they don't approach ppl in that manner.It was up to the father to prove the check existed,which he didn't do.UM shows him going to a mailbox to get it...I just can't believe they would mail such a large sum so casually.My husb. used to be in the military and gov't checks are very distictive.it would have been easy for him to have taken a pic of it for later proof,as they are so recognizable.jmo.

I thought they did call BS on it by saying they don't approach ppl in that manner.It was up to the father to prove the check existed,which he didn't do.UM shows him going to a mailbox to get it...I just can't believe they would mail such a large sum so casually.My husb. used to be in the military and gov't checks are very distictive.it would have been easy for him to have taken a pic of it for later proof,as they are so recognizable.jmo.

I don't think the military debated the existence of the check, just how Curt's father was approached in public.