So...after what happened with the old thread, I figured I would restart it. Anybody wanna pick up where we left off? I think we were supporting Joe Jones and his innocence.

I believe that is where we left off...talking about how he had passed the lie detector test and accepted money for some shady trash dumping pointed to him being innocent. Also, I think we were talking about his accuracy in giving a license plate, and wondering if anyone really looked into whether the Asian woman that owned the car might have somehow been connected to the killer.

Way to be redundant and petty at the same time. Tiddlywinks you are such a moron.

I feel Joe Jones didnt have anything to do with the murder. However as an eyewitness I honestly believe he didn't give the right license plate number.

Yeah but what are the chances of him giving a wrong license plate number and it turns out to be the exact type of vehicle he described?

Yeah but what are the chances of him giving a wrong license plate number and it turns out to be the exact type of vehicle he described?

Not high but didn't the lady say she had no idea who that man was that Joe Jones saw dump the body? Something with one of them didn't fully add up

My thoughts are the lady was not telling the truth.

My thoughts are the lady was not telling the truth.

I agree. I think she may have been too scared to say anything. The segment said that she was a Taiwanese exchange student; often, people who are living in a foreign country have enough things to deal with and when they're confronted with certain situations, especially ones like this, they don't say anything to the police. Not saying it happens in every case, but it might be why the girl didn't tell the police some stuff (if she was involved that is).

My thoughts are the lady was not telling the truth.

I really think it was just a weird coincidence that Joe Jones gave a wrong license plate number yet the car description was right. Didnt the cops check out the cars engine and determine it hadnt been used?

I think if he had anything to do with it he wouldn't have told the cops where the body was. If he would have just stayed quite the garbage men would have came, picked up the dumpster and she would have been gone forever....the chances of her being found being extremely low once she got to the garbage dump.

Also I think him admitting to taking the money makes him sounds more truthful...I mean, not a good thing to admit to BUT how many people would take the money? It's not like you'd be thinking they'd be putting anything seriously bad in there...

The license plate thing...well it was dark, he got a quick look and to even remember as much as he did was pretty good.

I agree. I think she may have been too scared to say anything. The segment said that she was a Taiwanese exchange student; often, people who are living in a foreign country have enough things to deal with and when they're confronted with certain situations, especially ones like this, they don't say anything to the police. Not saying it happens in every case, but it might be why the girl didn't tell the police some stuff (if she was involved that is).

I wonder if the killer was a man she knew, even maybe a boyfriend, but you would think the police would dig through that and find out if so.

I can't remember exactly what I wrote on that other thread, but I will say that I've seen the segment probably a hundred times since it first aired and I never believed Jones was involved in the crime except as a witness. It is unlikely he would have come forward at all if he was Su Ya's killer. Also, the fact that he told the story that he did, including the unsavory aspects about accepting the $20 bill, suggests to me that that he was probably being truthful. I'm sure the police looked into Jones' background, questioned his friends, relatives, employer, etc. and found no link to Su Ya or the Taiwanese student. The poster seemed fixated on the fact that Jones passed a polygraph and that polygraphs can be unreliable. While passing the polygraph was probably a factor, I doubt it was the sole reason Jones was cleared. Unless more solid evidence is uncovered that suggests Jones was involved, I think the Jones as murderer theories should stop there.

So who killed Su Ya? A few things become apparent...

- She was stabbed 9 times.
- She was nude.
- No evidence of sexual assault.
- Poor disposal method - the killer was witnessed disposing of the body. He was also disorganized enough that he had blood on his clothes while he disposed of the body.

The poor disposal and his appearance (blood on his clothes) suggest inexperience.

The fact that she was stabbed repeatedly and not sexually assaulted suggest he knew her personally, as it was an overkill.

I wonder if this guy was a friend who possibly had a romantic interest in Su Ya that was unrequited - possible he made a "move" and was rebuffed. He got violent.

The only problem I see with that theory is he probably would have been identified by now if he was a close friend. Unless his relationship with Su Ya was insignificant enough that it's existence wasn't known to anyone except Su Ya because she didn't think it worthy of discussion or comment with anyone.

Considering Su Ya and her family moved here from Korea and the guy disposed of the body in Bed-Stuy (suggests he was local and/or familiar with the area) I think his connection with Su Ya was the store. He met or saw her there, and this is where he first set his sights on her.

Anyone know how long she operated the store with her Husband? I was also thinking it could be a customer came to the store regularly. maybe became obssessed with her and started stalking her? she rejected him and he killed her for it.

It might explain why he hasn't been found yet. it certaintly sounds like a crime of passion now that you point that out.

I can't remember exactly what I wrote on that other thread, but I will say that I've seen the segment probably a hundred times since it first aired and I never believed Jones was involved in the crime except as a witness. It is unlikely he would have come forward at all if he was Su Ya's killer. Also, the fact that he told the story that he did, including the unsavory aspects about accepting the $20 bill, suggests to me that that he was probably being truthful. I'm sure the police looked into Jones' background, questioned his friends, relatives, employer, etc. and found no link to Su Ya or the Taiwanese student. The poster seemed fixated on the fact that Jones passed a polygraph and that polygraphs can be unreliable. While passing the polygraph was probably a factor, I doubt it was the sole reason Jones was cleared. Unless more solid evidence is uncovered that suggests Jones was involved, I think the Jones as murderer theories should stop there.

So who killed Su Ya? A few things become apparent...

- She was stabbed 9 times.
- She was nude.
- No evidence of sexual assault.
- Poor disposal method - the killer was witnessed disposing of the body. He was also disorganized enough that he had blood on his clothes while he disposed of the body.

The poor disposal and his appearance (blood on his clothes) suggest inexperience.

The fact that she was stabbed repeatedly and not sexually assaulted suggest he knew her personally, as it was an overkill.

I wonder if this guy was a friend who possibly had a romantic interest in Su Ya that was unrequited - possible he made a "move" and was rebuffed. He got violent.

The only problem I see with that theory is he probably would have been identified by now if he was a close friend. Unless his relationship with Su Ya was insignificant enough that it's existence wasn't known to anyone except Su Ya because she didn't think it worthy of discussion or comment with anyone.

Considering Su Ya and her family moved here from Korea and the guy disposed of the body in Bed-Stuy (suggests he was local and/or familiar with the area) I think his connection with Su Ya was the store. He met or saw her there, and this is where he first set his sights on her.


Maybe he was someone who would deliver stuff to her store(s)? I remember Stack said a delivery guy or taxi driver would be familiar with that area...

I came up with this exact same theory and this is also based on my knowledge having grown up in NYC during this period.

The section of Brooklyn the store was located in, and the section of Brooklyn where the body was found were areas that at that time were not frequented by white people very much.

If this blonde white guy was familiar with that neighborhood during the early 90's he either was there for work, for college, or had drug connections or something else illegal going on.

He probably ended up at Su Ya Kim's store, fixated on her, and the rest is history.

It would have been easy to find out where she lived, maybe follow her home.

If you take Joe Jones at face value I feel like maybe it could be a white college student with a fetish for Asians and he got rejected.

But who knows, could Joe Jones just be a criminal mastermind? You can't really close yourself off to possibilities.

ANd someone mentioned polygraphs, well polygraphs are meaningless, they are based more on faith than any legitimate science.

The more I think about this, the more I wonder if the killer drove a car of the same, or a similar make and model of the Taiwanese college student, and he stole her license plate and used it on his car on the night he killed Su Ya - or at least when he disposed of the body. Even if the crime was unplanned and the offender disorganized, he knew he was going out that night to dispose of a corpse. Probably not the best idea to do this with your own license plate should the wrong person see you - which is exactly what happened here.

I think the fact that the woman was Taiwanese and college age - close to the age of the offender himself and presumably his "taste" in women, is too large of a coincidence.

I also think it odd Jones would have gotten the plate number wrong . He suspected the guy was up to no good, afterall.

I think I've posted this in the older thread, but I still do not believe the Asian (she was a Taiwanese student IIRC) woman has zero connection to this crime. For Joe Jones to have got the license plate wrong, but just coincidentally the make and model of the car are the exact same as Jones described it is borderline impossible. I think Jones got the plate number right and it was in fact the Taiwanese student's car that the killer was using to dispose the body. I also believe that the killer may have been having an affair with Su Ya Kim, and perhaps this Taiwanese student was an acquaintance or friend of both, or even possibly the killer's girlfriend. The affair angle was hinted because IIRC Su Ya told her husband she was going shopping with her children, but shortly after she left her husband, she dropped her kids off with relatives. Pure speculation, but a possibility. Maybe she was meeting this man (the killer) to break off the affair, and when she did he became enraged and killed her. And out of fear, the Taiwanese student did not want to come forward with any information.

Does anyone else think it's BS that LE says they "tested" the car and determined it wasn't driven the night before? What test could actually be performed to check this? I think maybe LE said this to possibly make it seem like they had taken the "heat off" this Taiwenese student, when in fact they were still investigating her.

I think I've posted this in the older thread, but I still do not believe the Asian (she was a Taiwanese student IIRC) woman has zero connection to this crime. For Joe Jones to have got the license plate wrong, but just coincidentally the make and model of the car are the exact same as Jones described it is borderline impossible. I think Jones got the plate number right and it was in fact the Taiwanese student's car that the killer was using to dispose the body. I also believe that the killer may have been having an affair with Su Ya Kim, and perhaps this Taiwanese student was an acquaintance or friend of both, or even possibly the killer's girlfriend. The affair angle was hinted because IIRC Su Ya told her husband she was going shopping with her children, but shortly after she left her husband, she dropped her kids off with relatives. Pure speculation, but a possibility. Maybe she was meeting this man (the killer) to break off the affair, and when she did he became enraged and killed her. And out of fear, the Taiwanese student did not want to come forward with any information.

Does anyone else think it's BS that LE says they "tested" the car and determined it wasn't driven the night before? What test could actually be performed to check this? I think maybe LE said this to possibly make it seem like they had taken the "heat off" this Taiwenese student, when in fact they were still investigating her.

While it can't be ruled out, I don't think she was having an affair with the perp. It would be interesting to know how well Su Ya understood and spoke English, as I could see a bit of a language barrier existing (her husband didn't know English as I recall) that might make starting an intimate relationship with an American unlikely - though not impossible, the language of love is universal, or so they say. Also, I admittedly don't know a ton about the Kim's culture, but I would guess having an affair is something that would be seriously shunned and looked down upon. Just saying. Moreover, she could have decided not to bring the kids with her. Since her car wasn't driven, I would think she used public transportation that day, and perhaps she changed her mind about bringing the kids. It's possible. I don't recall the segment mentioning if she was sighted shopping anywhere. That would be good to know.

It would also be nice to know if the car was checked for blood, and if so, how thoroughly - was Luminol used, for example. I seem to recall there was some blood found at the disposal site, and stabbing is pretty messy, so it's reasonable to assume there would be traces of blood somewhere in the car. Assuming they did conduct some sort of test on the engine, I think they probably checked for blood in the trunk/backseat area too.

Didn't they determine that the car had not been used for quite sometime?

Didn't they determine that the car had not been used for quite sometime?

That's what they said. I mean, how would they know, other than by temperature? Is there some sort of parking lot log? I believe that RS said something to the effect of "it had clearly not been run for hours,"

I'd like to know how they figured that out.

That's what they said. I mean, how would they know, other than by temperature? Is there some sort of parking lot log? I believe that RS said something to the effect of "it had clearly not been run for hours,"

I'd like to know how they figured that out.

Well, a car that had been recently used would have a warm engine for one and the fluids in the car would not have settled.

I wonder if the killer had a similar car and was associated with the university, perhaps as a delivery driver, the exchange student attended and either "borrowed" her plates or got a fake set of plates made. I think the fact that both women were Asian is probably significant and he may have been stalking them.

I don't doubt the security guard for a second, not because he passed a lie detector test, but because he admitted something that could cause him to lose his job (taking the bribe) and because the suspect he described would not be what someone made up in Bed Stuy in 1991. I mean, Bed Stuy was not what it was when Billy Joel sang "I walked through Bedford Stuy alone" but it had not yet undergone the gentrification of the early 2000s. Describing a nerdy guy in athletic gear is not the suspect someone who lived and worked there would make up.

Well, a car that had been recently used would have a warm engine for one and the fluids in the car would not have settled.

By the time LE actually got to the car to investigate the owner, several hours had already passed. This Taiwanese student had to have known the killer in some way, shape, or form.

By the time LE actually got to the car to investigate the owner, several hours had already passed. This Taiwanese student had to have known the killer in some way, shape, or form.

See that's what I thought...my car does not stay warm for hours.

I don't really buy into the affair angle, but I think it's quite possible that this was someone who had observed Su Ya prior to her murder -- possibly a customer of her store, or a resident of the neighborhood or even the apartment building her parents (in-laws? whomever she dropped the kids off with) resided in. I'm curious if it were a regular routine for her to go shopping at the time that she did, if she usually went alone, and if her itinerary was generally the same on each trip.

The athletic clothes could mean nothing, but it's not out of the question that the perpetrator dressed that way in order to stalk women but to appear as though he was harmlessly out exercising.

It's possible that the the guard remembered the license plate letters/numbers, but remembered them in an incorrect sequence. I'm curious how much the police looked into the any friends the Taiwanese student had that would have fit the profile. It's interesting but it could unfortunately simply be an honest mix up.

It's possible that the the guard remembered the license plate letters/numbers, but remembered them in an incorrect sequence. I'm curious how much the police looked into the any friends the Taiwanese student had that would have fit the profile. It's interesting but it could unfortunately simply be an honest mix up.

But what are the odds that Jones criss-crossed certain numbers on the license plate and it turned out to be the exact same make and model of the car the killer was driving? I don't think there was any mix up at all, I think he got the right car.

What happened to the old thread? I was gone for 5 days and apparently we have another moron starting stuff, lol.

I tend to agree. Obviously the student is not the killer, but I think she did lend her car to someone or something along those lines.

I can't help to notice the resemblance between him and the composite sketch
Look at the composite glasses are identical http://unsolved.com/archives/su-ya-kim
http://m.christianpost.com/news/serial-killer-joel-rifkin-head-victim-finally-identified-after-nearly-25-years-video--92786/

Just thinking about this again since it got bumped.

I still think that she probably met the offender through the store.

I am bothered by the fact that she was apparently nude yet there weren't any signs of sexual assault.

I know in an earlier post I suggested the possibility that Su Ya was accosted by a stalker. In thinking about this possibility a little more, I find it odd that, if this is true, the guy didn't sexually assault her. Further, given the messy method of the murder, and the fact that she was presumably nude, one has to wonder WHERE this crime could have been committed to afford such privacy. And, would some weirdo stalker type be able to get Su Ya into such a location short of grabbing her off the street?

Along those lines, I wonder if the police believe she was nude when she was killed, or if her clothes were removed post-mortem. I think that if they could determine she was nude when she was stabbed (there would have been clothing fibers her wounds) that may be more telling than if her clothes were simply removed after the fact. The latter could have been a forensic countermeasure and nothing more.

Sad case. I always felt bad for the husband and the children. It seems like they set their sights on living the good life in America and those dreams were snuffed out by this horrible crime.

ETA: The method of disposal is interesting. Just assume for a minute that Joe Jones had NOT came upon this guy putting Su Ya's body in the dumpster. What would have happened? In all probability, her body would have been picked up by the garbage collector and there is a good chance that it may have never been recovered. Thus, Su Ya would still be a missing person.

The disposal could suggest disorganization. The guy obviously didn't clean up enough because he still had blood on him. Could point toward a crime of passion. Also, he apparently could have disposed of the body in this manner in the hope that it wouldn't be traceable to him.

On the other hand, the guy could have just surmised putting her in the dumpster would be a good way to get rid of a body regardless of his "relationship" to the victim.

Just thinking about this again since it got bumped.

I still think that she probably met the offender through the store.

I am bothered by the fact that she was apparently nude yet there weren't any signs of sexual assault.

I know in an earlier post I suggested the possibility that Su Ya was accosted by a stalker. In thinking about this possibility a little more, I find it odd that, if this is true, the guy didn't sexually assault her. Further, given the messy method of the murder, and the fact that she was presumably nude, one has to wonder WHERE this crime could have been committed to afford such privacy. And, would some weirdo stalker type be able to get Su Ya into such a location short of grabbing her off the street?

Along those lines, I wonder if the police believe she was nude when she was killed, or if her clothes were removed post-mortem. I think that if they could determine she was nude when she was stabbed (there would have been clothing fibers her wounds) that may be more telling than if her clothes were simply removed after the fact. The latter could have been a forensic countermeasure and nothing more.

Sad case. I always felt bad for the husband and the children. It seems like they set their sights on living the good life in America and those dreams were snuffed out by this horrible crime.

ETA: The method of disposal is interesting. Just assume for a minute that Joe Jones had NOT came upon this guy putting Su Ya's body in the dumpster. What would have happened? In all probability, her body would have been picked up by the garbage collector and there is a good chance that it may have never been recovered. Thus, Su Ya would still be a missing person.

The disposal could suggest disorganization. The guy obviously didn't clean up enough because he still had blood on him. Could point toward a crime of passion. Also, he apparently could have disposed of the body in this manner in the hope that it wouldn't be traceable to him.

On the other hand, the guy could have just surmised putting her in the dumpster would be a good way to get rid of a body regardless of his "relationship" to the victim.

I still think that Joel Rifkin was involved I mean he looks just like the composite same glasses and everything

Joel Rifkin usually only targeted prostitutes, and he would dismember their remains. I don't think he's Su Ya's killer.

Maybe she is a victim of the long island serial killer some speculate

And I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around the license plate match is a red herring theory. I'm legitimately confused on that.

On UM, the detective says, "We ran all the Nissans that fit that description with that plate number in New York City and we tried to match registered owners by using a partial plate. And we were able to come up with one match."

Did Joe Jones get most or all of the license plate, or did he get the first 3 letters/numbers and the police found the match that way? If that's the case, then yes, I could see how the match could be a red herring in the case. But the UM segment makes it seem like Jones got nearly the entire license plate and that they tried matching the car with the plate number Jones provided as well as trying to match it with a partial plate. Which is confusing.

Jones found the killer dumping Su Ya's body at around 3:00 in the morning. Detectives presumably questioned the college student that morning, when she told them that she last drove it at 10:00 p.m. the following night. So if they questioned her in the early morning hours, this would make sense as to why they eliminated the car as being involved. There was no blood and they determined (although I'm still confused on exactly how the determined this) that the car was not used for hours.

The only remaining possibility is that the killer drove an identical car and switched the plates. But that would mean that the killer was known to the student somehow.

Maybe she is a victim of the long island serial killer some speculate

Usually targeted prostitutes as well, and the murders happened well after Su Ya's murder.

He only got a partial plate. I bet if you looked for say a black Toyota with say a 3, a 7 and an M in the license plate, you could find one in New York. The UM broadcast made it seem like it was the same car when it probably wasn't

He only got a partial plate. I bet if you looked for say a black Toyota with say a 3, a 7 and an M in the license plate, you could find one in New York. The UM broadcast made it seem like it was the same car when it probably wasn't

If this is true then yes the college student's car is a red herring.

But the detective's quote is confusing. First, UM makes it seem like Jones got a plate number. Then the detective says that they ran all of the blue nissans in NY with that plate number and that they tried to match registered drivers with a partial plate. Based off of his quote it seems like Jones did in fact give the police a full plate number.

I have to think that if Joe Rifkin was a suspect, the police would have given Jones a lineup with Rifkin's photo to see if he could identify him as the killer.

The suspect looked a little nerdier than Rifkin.

$20 is a cheap payoff

Maybe the killer knew the exchange student drove similar cars but stole her plates so he could commit the crime and dump the body. If he did borrow her car it wouldn't take to long for the engine of the car to cool off. If they did question her what time was it in the morning? If it was anywhere from ten to eleven in the morning, I'm quite sure the car has cooled off hours ago if it was a cool night.

If the perpetrator really did drive in the Taiwanese student's car, one has to wonder why he felt the need to drive in someone else's car to dump Su Ya's body. Why didn't he use his own car? I mean, he couldn't have predicted that someone at 3AM in a deserted alley in Bed-Stuy would see him, and that he used someone else's car to throw suspicion on that person, right?

If the perpetrator really did drive in the Taiwanese student's car, one has to wonder why he felt the need to drive in someone else's car to dump Su Ya's body. Why didn't he use his own car? I mean, he couldn't have predicted that someone at 3AM in a deserted alley in Bed-Stuy would see him, and that he used someone else's car to throw suspicion on that person, right?

Maybe she was dating the guy and being discrete

If the perpetrator really did drive in the Taiwanese student's car, one has to wonder why he felt the need to drive in someone else's car to dump Su Ya's body. Why didn't he use his own car? I mean, he couldn't have predicted that someone at 3AM in a deserted alley in Bed-Stuy would see him, and that he used someone else's car to throw suspicion on that person, right?

I'd be more comfortable with saying that it was the wrong plate if indeed they ran partials using the same make and color of the car Jones Id'ed. If that's true then he could have gotten the wrong plate, but the right car. But the detective's quote on UM is very confusing, IMO.

One would have to wonder did they ever give the husband a polygraph or question him maybe this was murder for hire?? maybe they had a bad relationship and the husband hired the guy to do his dirty work.
I've made up my own physicological profile of the offender that committed this crime.
You start with the basics.
Young adult at least early 20s about 22 or in that range.
We know the guard described him as wearing glasses and having blonde hair.
Most killers kill at a place that's most comfortable were they live or they are familiar with so he was familiar with the area.
9 stab wounds indicate anger most likely some form of rejection maybe a sexual advance rejected.
There are 3 possibilities.
1.A delivery man.
2.A local drug dealer.
3. A collage student or an employee at the university.
He probably committed small petty crimes before such as stealing.

I find it odd because I recently watched this episode again and they mentioned nothing about questioning the husband and his involvement I don't think they even gave him a polygraph

"Quote:
Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86
We ran all the Nissans that fit that description with that plate number in New York City and we tried to match registered owners by using a partial plate. And we were able to come up with one match.

That's verbatim from the segment, so it's a little ambiguous, but I always under the impression Jones gave the full plate number. I thought it was a case of anchoring and adjustment--if the plate didn't in fact exist, the police then ran partial searches using a similar character in place of one given to them by Jones."
The way I am reading that is the searched one whole complete license plate and it was attached to the vehicle that was described on detail AND they used partial digits from the plate number as recalled in any varying combinations/permutations that were linkef to any vehicle matching the description.
Also, this was late 80s, right? I find it hard to believe they were able to track down the vehicle so fast and given this was a person of color, an immigrant living/working in an urban/socio-economically disenfranchised area, I am inclined to believe that all investigations/inquests into this matter were not as thorough as they could have been

I would put the husband as a suspect before I'd put Jones..

I would put the husband as a suspect before I'd put Jones..
Do you think the husband hired a hitman?

I would put the husband as a suspect before I'd put Jones..

Please explain what you base this off of.

Police never questioned him he could have been hideing something

The husband was working at the store that day. He has to have an airtight alibi. I don't even think it was mentioned in the segment, or even hinted at for that matter like it was for Jones, that he was considered a suspect in her death. Plus, Jones' description of the guy dumping Su Ya's body looked nothing like her husband.

This is the equivalent of "Rob did it".

This maybe the work of a serial killer but I highly doubt it since police stated there were no signs of sexual assault the suspect kind of looked like a young Jeffery Gordon who would assault women and keep there under garments as trophies he killed 2 women margret ibie killed in her home 1986.
and nancy ludwig 1991 in a hotel in Detroit I'm positive though the man is not Gordon because it doesn't fit his profile.

This maybe the work of a serial killer but I highly doubt it since police stated there were no signs of sexual assault the suspect kind of looked like a young Jeffery Gordon who would assault women and keep there under garments as trophies he killed 2 women margret ibie killed in her home 1986.
and nancy ludwig 1991 in a hotel in Detroit I'm positive though the man is not Gordon because it doesn't fit his profile.


I proposed Long Island serial killer but no one replied.

I proposed that to but someone told me he only struck in the 90s I also proposed joel rifkin as a suspect

I proposed Long Island serial killer but no one replied.
IIRC, the Long Island serial killer only targeted prostitutes. I find it hard to believe that he would start out by killing some housewoman, and then switch to prostitutes, JMO.

IIRC, the Long Island serial killer only targeted prostitutes. I find it hard to believe that he would start out by killing some housewoman, and then switch to prostitutes, JMO.

They postulate that the Long Island serial killer is more than one person

Please explain what you base this off of.

Nothing really. Just based on the fact that I think Jones is 100% innocent. I've always wondered if Su Ya's husband remarried. He looked totally grief stricken but even Gord McAllister remarried.

(if you are wondering how I know he remarried, when I came across his obit, it mentioned his new wife)

Solving this case all goes back to the car registered to the Taiwanese student police should focus on the car first to see if it actually was her car he was driving and if the killer left any finger prints I suggest also interviewing known criminal offenders and felons around the area new york has a long history of violent felons dateing back even before the 60's.
They should have whent through police records to see if the composite resembled a known offender.
I'm sure he left some mistakes maybe he left his finger print on the dumpster the guard did say his shirt was bloody.
What about a bloody hand print on the steering wheel??
he would have to be real clever to not make mistakes and if he was a first timer I'm not sure he was clever.

IIRC, the Long Island serial killer only targeted prostitutes. I find it hard to believe that he would start out by killing some housewoman, and then switch to prostitutes, JMO.

maybe suya made extra money on the side

maybe suya made extra money on the side
Okay, that is it. Seriously. I just can't take it anymore. I'm just going to come right out and say it. Your presence on this board is a complete annoyance. Your paranormal threads could have been excusable if they related to paranormal rather than murder cases. Can you imagine a family member or friend of Jonbenet Ramsay, Holly Glynn, or Su Ya Kim seeing your ridiculously offensive posts and obsessions rather than actual logical discussion of the cases? Many relatives have found these boards and have been comforted seeing that their loved one's case is still discussed and that people care after all these years. Now they'll come on here and see things like "Oh, did a ghost do it?" "Wow this death is so spiritual!" That is just disgusting. I can't even imagine how upset I would be to be related to these women and encountering a mockery of a discussion like that.

But on this one with Su Ya Kim, it's just the last straw. Now you're insinuating that a murder victim, wife and mother, was possibly a prostitute when there is ZERO evidence of this. Zero. Zilch. Nada. NOTHING. It doesn't even make any sense to speculate even if you're trying desperately to link the Long Island serial killer. She left her apartment and never even made it to her car as far as we know, meaning she was abducted from the parking garage. This was a crime of opportunity and a horrible one. And now you've had to throw yet another poorly written, downright ridiculous, and cruel speculation onto the case.

Back to your usual offenses, if you want to talk mostly about the paranormal, this is really NOT the forum for you, if you haven't figured that out already by now. There are certainly countless places online where you could talk about things like that and where you will be more than likely accepted. At the very least, for heaven's sake keep the paranormal IN the paranormal threads!!

Okay, that is it. Seriously. I just can't take it anymore. I'm just going to come right out and say it. Your presence on this board is a complete annoyance. Your paranormal threads could have been excusable if they related to paranormal rather than murder cases. Can you imagine a family member or friend of Jonbenet Ramsay, Holly Glynn, or Su Ya Kim seeing your ridiculously offensive posts and obsessions rather than actual logical discussion of the cases? Many relatives have found these boards and have been comforted seeing that their loved one's case is still discussed and that people care after all these years. Now they'll come on here and see things like "Oh, did a ghost do it?" "Wow this death is so spiritual!" That is just disgusting. I can't even imagine how upset I would be to be related to these women and encountering a mockery of a discussion like that.

But on this one with Su Ya Kim, it's just the last straw. Now you're insinuating that a murder victim, wife and mother, was possibly a prostitute when there is ZERO evidence of this. Zero. Zilch. Nada. NOTHING. It doesn't even make any sense to speculate even if you're trying desperately to link the Long Island serial killer. She left her apartment and never even made it to her car as far as we know, meaning she was abducted from the parking garage. This was a crime of opportunity and a horrible one. And now you've had to throw yet another poorly written, downright ridiculous, and cruel speculation onto the case.

Back to your usual offenses, if you want to talk mostly about the paranormal, this is really NOT the forum for you, if you haven't figured that out already by now. There are certainly countless places online where you could talk about things like that and where you will be more than likely accepted. At the very least, for heaven's sake keep the paranormal IN the paranormal threads!!

ever follow the jonbenet case? theres 2 forums websleuth and forumsforjustice

those posters not only insinuate jonbenet was murdered by her family members but then speculate as to sexual activity - incest.

dpjd made an angel in the sand something a lot of people commented on.


others have suggested suya had an extra marital affair with the killer or some variation of the idea.

i did have the long island serial killer killed suya thread awhile back.

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=335598

extra money isn't necessarily prostitution. could be um piano lessons.

extra money isn't necessarily prostitution. could be um piano lessons.

You quoted someone's reference to the Long Island serial killer only killing prostitutes and then insinuated that Su Ya made "extra money on the side".

You quoted someone's reference to the Long Island serial killer only killing prostitutes and then insinuated that Su Ya made "extra money on the side".

I try not to respond anymore. It's pointless. Or whatever a word for "beyond pointless" is.

As for who killed Su Ya? I agree with the consensus that it was a horrible and RANDOM act of violence. I don't think there was any serial killer involved. Just someone who saw an opportunity and took it.

I'm making a note to rewatch this segment to see if I pick up anything new.

Solving this case all goes back to the car registered to the Taiwanese student police should focus on the car first to see if it actually was her car he was driving and if the killer left any finger prints I suggest also interviewing known criminal offenders and felons around the area new york has a long history of violent felons dateing back even before the 60's.
They should have whent through police records to see if the composite resembled a known offender.
I'm sure he left some mistakes maybe he left his finger print on the dumpster the guard did say his shirt was bloody.
What about a bloody hand print on the steering wheel??
he would have to be real clever to not make mistakes and if he was a first timer I'm not sure he was clever.

These are good points.

The points you mentioned about fingerprints in the car and possibly the presence of blood give me pause about whether this was "the" car. I mean, the killer was obviously pretty disorganized. Assuming he did use this student's car, it is surprising to me that the police did not find any trace evidence at all that would have shown Su Ya's body was transported in the car.

Although it doesn't say this in the segment, my theory is that the police did check the care for trace evidence, found none, and correctly (IMO) determined that this was not the car based on the fact that it had not been driven recently AND the lack of trace evidence.

Solving this case all goes back to the car registered to the Taiwanese student police should focus on the car first to see if it actually was her car he was driving and if the killer left any finger prints I suggest also interviewing known criminal offenders and felons around the area new york has a long history of violent felons dateing back even before the 60's.
They should have whent through police records to see if the composite resembled a known offender.
I'm sure he left some mistakes maybe he left his finger print on the dumpster the guard did say his shirt was bloody.
What about a bloody hand print on the steering wheel??
he would have to be real clever to not make mistakes and if he was a first timer I'm not sure he was clever.

This is the definition of "needle in a haystack".

These are good points.

The points you mentioned about fingerprints in the car and possibly the presence of blood give me pause about whether this was "the" car. I mean, the killer was obviously pretty disorganized. Assuming he did use this student's car, it is surprising to me that the police did not find any trace evidence at all that would have shown Su Ya's body was transported in the car.

Although it doesn't say this in the segment, my theory is that the police did check the care for trace evidence, found none, and correctly (IMO) determined that this was not the car based on the fact that it had not been driven recently AND the lack of trace evidence.

I haven't seen the segment in awhile, but FWIW, there is a blurb on the unsolved.com website about the Su Ya case that says the police looked for blood and found none in the student's car.

We ran all the Nissans that fit that description with that plate number in New York City and we tried to match registered owners by using a partial plate. And we were able to come up with one match.

This is what I think happened...

Jones transcribed the full plate number and provided the plate to the police along with the description of the car.

The police ran the full plate and exact car description and came up with zilch.

Thinking a part of the plate was wrong, they reran the search using a partial plate and the car description.

They got the student.

If this is truly what happened, it would make more sense that this was not the correct car.

Thus, I think either

A. Jones got the plate number wrong.
B. Jones got the plate number right, but the plates were stolen, possibly from a different make of vehicle entirely, which is precisely why those complete plates didn't trace back to a car of the same type as described by Jones.

These are good points.

The points you mentioned about fingerprints in the car and possibly the presence of blood give me pause about whether this was "the" car. I mean, the killer was obviously pretty disorganized. Assuming he did use this student's car, it is surprising to me that the police did not find any trace evidence at all that would have shown Su Ya's body was transported in the car.

Although it doesn't say this in the segment, my theory is that the police did check the care for trace evidence, found none, and correctly (IMO) determined that this was not the car based on the fact that it had not been driven recently AND the lack of trace evidence.

That's a very good point. I dont think the killer used the students car, just a similarly-looking one.

The dumpster was not easily visible from the street so they theorize he had knowledge of the area I wonder if she was abducted first then killed or he lured her some how?? what about the murder weapon could he have disposed it somewhere. Here is one theory that he asked her out on a date or something and she told him she was married and he stalked her for awhile and killed her.

You quoted someone's reference to the Long Island serial killer only killing prostitutes and then insinuated that Su Ya made "extra money on the side".

oh. i'm thinking that the long island serial killer may have mistaken suya for a prostitute when she wasnt. still killed her though.

was suya raped? any semen? theres a serial killer from conn. who stabbed women like suya

This is what I think happened...

Jones transcribed the full plate number and provided the plate to the police along with the description of the car.

The police ran the full plate and exact car description and came up with zilch.

Thinking a part of the plate was wrong, they reran the search using a partial plate and the car description.

They got the student.

If this is truly what happened, it would make more sense that this was not the correct car.

Thus, I think either

A. Jones got the plate number wrong.
B. Jones got the plate number right, but the plates were stolen, possibly from a different make of vehicle entirely, which is precisely why those complete plates didn't trace back to a car of the same type as described by Jones.

That was actually Cars that posted that little bit of transcript :), but you bring up a quite plausible scenario here.

It was late. It was likely pretty dark out. Jones was probably more than a little bit nervous. I think it's most likely he made a mistake transcribing the plate--or perhaps even the registrant state listed on the plate.

Michael bruce ross suspect?? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bruce_Ross

I wonder though...how are her husband and children doing now? I remember the segment mentioned they moved back to South Korea.

I wonder though...how are her husband and children doing now? I remember the segment mentioned they moved back to South Korea.

it would be interesting what they remember and whether the have any suspects or recognize the composite drawing. :confused:

it would be interesting what they remember and whether the have any suspects or recognize the composite drawing. :confused:
I think they would have told the police if they recognized the composite drawing..

I think this case has reached "top 5" status for me, in terms of cases I would like to see solved, because of some of the weirdness involved. Certainly, the outstanding "feature" of the case is the strange disconnect between the ID of the car made by the security guard (or, rather, the plate number and make/model he identified), and the single matching car that was found and its apparent lack of connection to the homicide.

But in an earlier post in a previous thread, I brought up questions similar to the ones raised by justin5256 in this thread: she was found naked, but there was no signs of a sexual assault - so can the police tell if she was stabbed first, then stripped, or stabbed while nude? That could make the difference between reading this as a totally random act or some kind of acquaintance assault (it seems more likely to me a stranger looking for some kind of thrill would have stripped her first).

Also, the timing of the crime suggests it happened during the day. It happened in summer, and her husband stated that she was ALWAYS home by 8PM, and when she wasn't, that was when he began to worry - so from all that, we can presume that whatever happened to her happened to her before 8PM. Well, in the summer, this means it was light out - and also, this was NYC, not some rural farming town. I find it at least weird that a person could be grabbed and commandeered - in New York City - in broad daylight, without someone hearing or seeing something.

One poster (I forget who - justin?) suggested that the fact that her car was found in the parking garage, untouched, meant that she was grabbed from the garage. Certainly plausible, but necessarily so? You can certainly get around NYC without a car, and in many cases it is more desirable to leave the car parked, even on a shopping trip!

I recently moved out to the burbs, but when I lived in Philly certain sections of the city still had their own local newspapers - local to that section. Indeed, where I lived (South Philadelphia), we had two. I have been toying with the idea of seeing if there was any such paper serving Bed-Stuy, or at least Brooklyn, and forwarding them info about this case to see if they might pick it up. A long ago unsolved homicide with the weirdness this one has might be worth a follow up to a journalist looking to make a name for him or herself, and it would be interesting for someone who would be likely to have more access start poking around the case. Outside of this site, the internet is DEAD silent on this one, which makes me think, among other things, that this murder has been long forgotten even by the investigating authorities. The year it happened, there were over 2,000 murders in NYC. With that many homicides and the family moved back to South Korea (and thus no one here to keep the pressure up), it's easy to see how this case could have fallen through the cracks.

I don't understand why whould he abduct her from the parking garage in front of witnesses???
he had to have killed her in a private place maybe he took her to his home killed her then threw her in the dumpster??
but where did he abduct her???
New York is a big city I think he had to have done it somewhere where no one was around

I don't understand why whould he abduct her from the parking garage in front of witnesses???
he had to have killed her in a private place maybe he took her to his home killed her then threw her in the dumpster??
but where did he abduct her???
New York is a big city I think he had to have done it somewhere where no one was around

Parking garages can be lonely places, even sometimes in the middle of the day.

Having said that, yes, I do wonder about this.

I don't understand why whould he abduct her from the parking garage in front of witnesses???


The lack of information about the case is part of the problem. There's no information about the garage, if it was secured, if there were any witnesses to Su Ya leaving the building or her itinerary. As far as the difficulty in kidnapping a victim in daylight in the NYC area, there are plenty of isolated areas in which to abduct someone. I think that a densely populated area where people tend to mind their own business makes it less likely that people will recall seeing a missing person or having observed unusual behavior. Only Su Ya's family know if she would have fought an abductor or if she would have complied with his demands (also a smaller built individual is going to have a harder time fending off an attack.)

I have wondered if investigators checked out the parking garage for both blue Nissans and blue cars of a similar make or model, or if they just focused on the partial plate. I don't think the student's car had anything to do with the case.

I'd have to say that since Su Ya's car was left in the parking garage, that means two things, either she was abducted in the garage (unlikely, IMO) or she used public transportation to go shopping. The reason I think it was unlikely for her to have been abducted in the garage is simple: how did this guy know at what time Su Ya was going to appear in the garage? Was he simply waiting for any woman to appear alone before abducting them? I think that's unlikely due to the number of times she was stabbed.

I think the police are onto something with the theory that the killer was a cab driver. Unfortunately, UM makes no other mention of injuries on Su Ya besides the stab wounds. It would be nice to know if she had other injuries on her. Like for example if she had wounds to her head, I could envision an argument between Su Ya and a cabbie with a short fuse over something trivial (due to a language barrier possibly), cabbie snaps, hits her, panics and kills her. IMO, Su Ya's murder has all of the markings of a staged sexual assault murder. She was stripped nude for one, but wasn't sexually assaulted. This makes no sense other than if this guy wanted the cops to believe the crime was sexually motivated. Remember the blood on the killer and what he told Jones? "I got in a fight". Could have happened with Su Ya. An argument that led to murder.

o something with the theory that the killer was a cab driver.

Is this from the segment? If so, it's a detail I'd forgotten.

I'd suggest this is a detail that suggests that the police, at any rate, do not believe she was taken from the garage - because why would they be floating the notion she was killed by a cab driver if they also think she was taken on her way to her car?

Is this from the segment? If so, it's a detail I'd forgotten.

I'd suggest this is a detail that suggests that the police, at any rate, do not believe she was taken from the garage - because why would they be floating the notion she was killed by a cab driver if they also think she was taken on her way to her car?

Due to the remoteness of the location of the dump site, the police theorized that the killer may have been a taxi or delivery driver. It's mentioned towards the end of the segment, IIRC.

I think he abducted her by sneaking up on her while she was going to her car.
One other theory is that he was in the same store with her and saw her leave and followed her.
Does any one think that this might have also been race motivated????

He was white and she was Asian???