The Honeymooners Lost Episodes: Complete Restored Series (60th Anniversary Edition) [Archive] - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Benno123

08-02-2011, 07:09 PM

Have to admit that I was skeptical that this was just another release of what has gone before, but now that the facts are in, so am I!

I hear yeah -- this could be the "classic TV" release of the year!

I watched some of the new "best of" DVD that was released last week. While the quality is still kinescope quality, to me the picture appeared to have some work done on it -- all for the better. The picture didn't have as much flicker in it as before, some sharper images, and the sound even seemed a bit cleaner. I'm hoping to be able to do a side by side from this disc with what is available and see if a difference can be seen. I would guess that MPI used the newly restored prints for this "best of" disc.

And yes, a complete "Stand In For Murder" from 1955 was included as well! A nice hidden surprise!!! (A great bonus on the new set would be if MPI includes Gleason's monologue from the follow week in 1954 when the show was cut off and he tried to explain what happened that the TV audience missed. That would be a great bonus!)

I know it's Ralph Kramden that sells the best, but sometime MPI will be needing to release more Gleason material, so a collection highlighting each of his characters would be nice to see. Then again, maybe a "Best of" volume 1, 2, 3, etc .... I like Joe the Bartender and all, but I'm not sure I could stand a 2 or 3 hour DVD set of just Joe. Nothing against the character, but I think you all know what I mean :)

Here's hoping that the 1957 remake of "Six Months To Live" has been found and will be included, along with the original version from 1952!!!

Adamantium

08-02-2011, 09:29 PM

I have been wanting to complete "Boy Meets World" on DVD forever. They announced the final season for October 4th. After getting the news on this "Honeymooners" boxset, THIS is the release I'm all excited about. I can't believe I'm finally going to own all of these "lost episodes", many of which I figured would never get a release (mainly the Pert Kelton era).

For so many years I've been content just owning the Classic 39 (first on VHS then on DVD). Now I'm to the point where it's hard for me to imagine NOT owning the lost episodes.

Thank you MPI!!!!

Bill S.

08-02-2011, 09:44 PM

I don't see why they wouldn't have included the restored versions on the "Best of" disc. Based on the shape the "Stand In for Murder" remake appears to be in, I can see why some people may think they haven't been restored, but you have to keep in mind that that particular show wasn't cleaned up or preserved in any way back in the 80s along with the other seventy-something shows that have been previously released. It's likely been sitting in the vaults for the past thirty years, and it shows its age at times, but this is about as good as it's going to look.

It would be nice to see some of Gleason's other characters get a proper release, maybe something along the lines of Showtime's "Gleason: He's the Greatest" series from the 80s. Either way, I believe this WILL be the classic TV release of the year, and the most significant Honeymooners release to date, aside from the Classic 39, of course. Oh, and for any Laurel & Hardy fans out there, a new box set containing all of their sound shorts and features from the Hal Roach years has been announced for October as well: http://www.amazon.com/Laurel-Hardy-The-Essential-Collection/dp/B005BYBZKY/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1312335181&sr=1-1 -- Great year for classic comedy fans!

ChrisTV

08-03-2011, 12:23 AM

The 1955 "Murder" remake was the 1st "lost episode" screened at the 1st R.A.L.P.H. convention in 1984 and then never shown again. According to the "Lost Episodes" book & the 1st "Convention Program" that episode was owned by a private collector. I guess they found another reel or that collector gave it up.

ChrisTV

08-03-2011, 01:06 AM

So after reading the update on the included material, some questions...

1) 8 surviving HONEYMOONERS skits from the 1951-1952 Cavalcade of Stars variety show?

There were only 7 released for the Disney channel special. What is the 8th?

And will they be including the 2 skits from the Ed Sullivan Show?

2) half-a-dozen other HONEYMOONERS skits from The Jackie Gleason Show recently found in the vaults?

Were these skits not known about back in '85 or are they including those that were known as "still lost", they are...
"The New Bowling Ball", "The Turkey", "Question Mark", "Missing Pants", "Six Months To Live" (1952), "Easter Hats", "Alice's Birthday", "Dorsey Brothers Show", "Bus Accident" & "The Fortune Teller"?

This is 10 episodes. Can they include the "Dorsey Brothers Show" or not, music rights issues?

Are they including remakes?
"Honeymooners Christmas Party" ('1952), "What's the Name?" (1954), "Love Letter" (1954), "Halloween Party for the Boss" (1954), "Santa Claus and the Bookies" (1954), "Letter to the Boss" (1955), "Stand in for Murder" (1955),
"Six Months To Live" (1957) & "Manager of the Baseball Team" (1957)?

So excluding the '57 Trip to Europe, & the recently 1955 "Murder" remake included on the "Best of" release, this leaves 18 never before released on DVD.

The question is will we see them all?

TVFactFan

08-03-2011, 01:38 AM

So it would probably be best to wait for the complete set than to impulse buy that Best Of set to get the 1955 Stand In for Murder referenced a few threads down?

Now if we could get that 1976 Christmas special........

It was 1977 and the entire thing is on youtube, i'm going to watch tomorrow

Jack77

08-03-2011, 03:52 AM

So I'm confused. Will the Lost 1957 Europe episodes be on this new set coming out in October or not? I hope so!

Benno123

08-03-2011, 05:44 AM

So I'm confused. Will the Lost 1957 Europe episodes be on this new set coming out in October or not? I hope so!

According to info provided to tvshowsondvd.com, the answer is yes:

:First-time-ever home video release of the 8 sought-after 1957 HONEYMOONERS musical hours not seen anywhere in over 5 decades

Taken from: http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Jackie-Gleason-The-Honeymooners-Lost-Episodes-The-Complete-Restored-Series/15757#ixzz1TxQN4oB3

Jack77

08-03-2011, 06:19 AM

AWESOME
Thanks!

And Away We Gooooooooooooooooooooo....

Bill S.

08-03-2011, 04:28 PM

So after reading the update on the included material, some questions...
I think the Cavalcade, trip to Europe and half-a-dozen recently found shows are separate from the "over 10 hours of HONEYMOONERS productions not seen since the 1950s," so that should cover everything we know exists and more! As for an 8th Cavalcade skit, that IS what it says...I remember reading somewhere that UCLA had more episodes of Cavalcade than any other archive, so I guess it's possible that they could have dug up another one. If that's the case that kind of proves Ben's theory about there having been more than 7 sketches from that season. That also means that the list in the back of John's book (which was compiled by Craig Horwich) isn't as complete as we once thought. Hopefully this 42 page booklet will shed some light on this for us.

Benno123

08-03-2011, 05:15 PM

I wonder if to "restore" the shows if MPI and UCLA went back to the original film elements? I would hope so, and really can't imagine a proper restoration being done using the masters from the 1980s. I believe that the original prints from Gleason and the ones used were all 16mm kinescopes, is that correct? I guess 16mm would make the most sense.

I have a copy of "Stars Over Flatbush" from the VHS release, and in the form of a complete Jackie Gleason Show. To me, anyway, the original kinescope from the Gleason show looks so much better than the "restored" VHS version of the show. But that is just me :)

Bill S.

08-03-2011, 06:31 PM

I wonder if to "restore" the shows if MPI and UCLA went back to the original film elements? I would hope so, and really can't imagine a proper restoration being done using the masters from the 1980s. I believe that the original prints from Gleason and the ones used were all 16mm kinescopes, is that correct? I guess 16mm would make the most sense.
Yes, they were all 16mm. It would be nice if they included some kind of behind-the-scenes featurette on the whole restoration process. Other UCLA projects, like The Goldbergs and the recent Laurel & Hardy restorations have been covered on their website and on YouTube, but MPI seems to have kept this under wraps for some reason. It'd also be nice to know the history of certain shows and when/where they were found.

Benno123

08-03-2011, 06:38 PM

Yes, they were all 16mm. It would be nice if they included some kind of behind-the-scenes featurette on the whole restoration process. Other UCLA projects, like The Goldbergs and the recent Laurel & Hardy restorations have been covered on their website and on YouTube, but MPI seems to have kept this under wraps for some reason. It'd also be nice to know the history of certain shows and when/where they were found.

I wonder if they were found, as Gleason said, "on the back of Ralph's bus!" Ha!

We know that the Peabody Archives has the original "Love Letter" in their collection. I guess we can, for the time being, assume that "The Turkey" came from the print that was on Ebay a year or two ago. Ditto for the 1955 "Stand In For Murder" skit. I've seen two things in the past saying that when RALPH showed the first two "lost episodes" at a convention, the shows were "Stand In" from 1955, and also either "Stars Over Flatbush" or "Letter To The Boss." Since both shows can be traced back to the spring of 1955 this is possible, so maybe a 1955 remake of "Letter" also came from a private collector? I agree, some background on some of these shows would be great to have if nothing more than curiosity value.

Bill S.

08-03-2011, 07:07 PM

Benno123

08-03-2011, 07:32 PM

Whenever I think of the remakes that haven't been released, I think back to Audrey's book, where she mentioned how she went through everything with Jackie & Marilyn and "decided which ones to include." That always made it seem to me that there were a number of shows that were purposely held back. The Trip to Europe shows for sure, I don't think those were ever actually lost, probably just held back because of the musical numbers.

I'm not so sure that the Gleason estate didn't have the original "Love Letter" either, but that seems to be the one that sparked this whole restoration in the first place, so for that I'm thankful. And if I remember correctly, the "Fred's Landing" remake, as well as "What's the Name?" and the 1957 "Manager of the Baseball Team" weren't included in the original Showtime package in 1985, but eventually made it to VHS.

I think some of the skits were held back because of possibility of having matching episodes rerun next to one another back to back. For the hardcore fans to see two version of "Fred's Landing" wouldn't bother us, but for the casual viewer I don't think they would sit through the same show - even if different performances - two nights in a row. Others I think were held back for quality reasons, and others held back just because they were. The Europe shows I always felt were held back for 1) music rights issues and 2) lack of a preceeding sketch with an explanation of the characters winning the trip and then breaking out into song. Without knowing the history of these shows, again the casual viewer would probably be turned off by seeing the cast sing out of no where.

Why "Six Months To Live" was never released I'll never know. Especially given that many sources, including the 50th anniversary special hosted by Kevin James, states that the script was a favorite of Gleason's.

The 1957 remake of "Manager" was one of those shows that I believe some of the VHS tapes that were to include it did in fact include that version, while others included the original 1953 version. I know my copy was the 1953 version even though the box says 1957. I have yet to see the 1957 version. Ditto for "The Bowling Ball" sketch. I seem to recall some on the old honeymooners.net talking about having this skit at the end of the compilation VHS tape "The Honeymooners Greatest Battles." I cannot confirm if this was true or false because my copy did not have it. (Most be something about my location or luck of getting tapes!!) If someone can confirm one way or another on this or the above 1957 version making it on tape that would be great!

As for "Love Letter," I had to dig around by I found a story from when the show was found saying that Gleason Enterprises were happy to know that a kinescope survived of the 1954 show since their only copy was the remake from the 1956-57 season. Several other news stories mention that the Peabody Archive was the only collection and archive to hold this show. The link below is to the University of Georgia's site where the Peabody Archives are kept:
http://www.uga.edu/aboutUGA/learn-honeymooners.html

Bill S.

08-03-2011, 08:03 PM

I think some of the skits were held back because of possibility of having matching episodes rerun next to one another back to back. For the hardcore fans to see two version of "Fred's Landing" wouldn't bother us, but for the casual viewer I don't think they would sit through the same show - even if different performances - two nights in a row. Others I think were held back for quality reasons, and others held back just because they were. The Europe shows I always felt were held back for 1) music rights issues and 2) lack of a preceeding sketch with an explanation of the characters winning the trip and then breaking out into song. Without knowing the history of these shows, again the casual viewer would probably be turned off by seeing the cast sing out of no where.
Out of the 78 sketches released on VHS, the following 8 weren't included in the Showtime package, according to a list VIDEOWACK posted back in 2006:
"Lost Baby" - was still lost at the time.
"Quiz Show" - still lost as well.
"Lawsuit" - audio problems.
"Whats the Name" - remake w/ musical number.
"Vacation at Fred's Landing" - remake.
"Songwriters" - I believe this one was found by a private collector.
"One Big Happy Family" - noticeably damaged.
"Manager of the Baseball Team" - remake.

Why "Six Months To Live" was never released I'll never know. Especially given that many sources, including the 50th anniversary special hosted by Kevin James, states that the script was a favorite of Gleason's.
I always assumed that the three sketches from the Best of Gleason specials ("New Bowling Ball," "Six Months to Live" and "Bus Accident/Sprained Thumb") were part of the few that were found in the CBS vaults, which may explain why they weren't released by MPI.

The 1957 remake of "Manager" was one of those shows that I believe some of the VHS tapes that were to include it did in fact include that version, while others included the original 1953 version. I know my copy was the 1953 version even though the box says 1957. I have yet to see the 1957 version. Ditto for "The Bowling Ball" sketch. I seem to recall some on the old honeymooners.net talking about having this skit at the end of the compilation VHS tape "The Honeymooners Greatest Battles." I cannot confirm if this was true or false because my copy did not have it. (Most be something about my location or luck of getting tapes!!) If someone can confirm one way or another on this or the above 1957 version making it on tape that would be great!
The 1957 version of "Manager of the Baseball Team" was released on VHS, and I have the tape to prove it. The correct version was either on Volume 10 or 28, but the problem was that both tapes advertise the 1957 version, and one of them is actually the original. "Halloween Party for the Boss," on the other hand, was advertised on the back of the box, but never actually released. I don't believe the "Bowling" sketch was ever officially released, but I remember reading something similar about "Sprained Thumb" being on the "Great Gleason" tape, but it wasn't on my copy.

As for "Love Letter," I had to dig around by I found a story from when the show was found saying that Gleason Enterprises were happy to know that a kinescope survived of the 1954 show since their only copy was the remake from the 1956-57 season. Several other news stories mention that the Peabody Archive was the only collection and archive to hold this show. The link below is to the University of Georgia's site where the Peabody Archives are kept: http://www.uga.edu/aboutUGA/learn-honeymooners.html
They might not have known they had it at the time, it just seems like a strange show to be missing.

BTW, Amazon now has the set listed at a discounted price of $90.99: http://www.amazon.com/Honeymooners-Lost-Episodes-Comp-Restored/dp/B005E7SEOI/ref=sr_1_19?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1312411345&sr=1-19

Benno123

08-03-2011, 09:15 PM

The 1957 version of "Manager of the Baseball Team" was released on VHS, and I have the tape to prove it. The correct version was either on Volume 10 or 28, but the problem was that both tapes advertise the 1957 version, and one of them is actually the original. "Halloween Party for the Boss," on the other hand, was advertised on the back of the box, but never actually released. I don't believe the "Bowling" sketch was ever officially released, but I remember reading something similar about "Sprained Thumb" being on the "Great Gleason" tape, but it wasn't on my copy.

This I can confirm that the two VHS tapes that I have that are supposed to include the remake and the original in fact contain just the original sketch on both tapes. Either I had an early copy of the tape that was supposed to contain the '57 show and there was an error that was corrected on later recordings of the tape, or the original release had the correct version and a later recording contained the error.

Ditto about "Sprained Thumb" ... missing from my Great Gleason tape as well. Perhaps all internet rumors???

They might not have known they had it at the time, it just seems like a strange show to be missing.

I believe the news stories that the Gleason Estate did not have a copy of this. Gleason was nominated for a Peabody Award the season "Love Letter" was performed, so it is very possible that he gave the archive his personal copy of the show. I don't really think it's that strange given that these shows aired once and that was it. What I find strange is that it took 20 years after the "Lost Episodes" became available that anyone would discover this show? But that's hindsight now, the important thing is that the show aired on TV Land and will soon be available on DVD.

BTW, Amazon now has the set listed at a discounted price of $90.99: http://www.amazon.com/Honeymooners-Lost-Episodes-Comp-Restored/dp/B005E7SEOI/ref=sr_1_19?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1312411345&sr=1-19

And don't forget that if you preorder the set at one price, and the price goes even lower before it ships and then goes back up, you will be charged the lowest price it was during the time of preorder. And I believe once it is released you have something like 12 days to contact them if you see the price even lower than it was when it was sent to you to get a refund on the difference. Double check me on that last part, but I believe that is how Amazon works! I may even spring for the overnight shipping on this to have it on the day of release ... don't know why, will be nose deep in Masters work at that time!

Benno123

08-03-2011, 10:08 PM

Some images from releases of a scene from "A Weighty Problem." This was one episode that I actually had on VHS as well as DVD so I was able to pull a scene from the releases to compare. What does everyone think about the video quality from one release to another?

From the original VHS release:
http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g411/ricochet1979/weighty_vhs.jpg

From original DVD release:
http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g411/ricochet1979/weighty_originaldvd.jpg

From the "Jackie Gleason: Genius At Work" DVD:
http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g411/ricochet1979/weighty_geniusatworkdvd.jpg

From the new "Lost Episodes Best Of Collection" DVD:
http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g411/ricochet1979/weighty_bestofdvd.jpg

Benno123

08-03-2011, 10:10 PM

My order of preference for the quality goes from the new "best of" dvd, to the original dvd release, to vhs, and in last place the "Genius at Work" disc. Strange how a program as new as "Genius" has the poorest picture quality.

Bill S.

08-03-2011, 10:45 PM

Benno123

08-03-2011, 11:01 PM

Well that proves that the restored versions were included on the "Best of" disc. It's weird how the previous DVD versions look almost washed out and muddy, I wonder why that is. And while the restored version definitely looks the best, it appears that we're missing a little bit on the bottom there...Norton's fingers are visible in all but the restored version, but we also seem to have gained something, as the top of the door frame is only really visible in that shot as well.

BTW, I just found a cover shot of "The Honeymooners Greatest Battles," and interestingly the picture that they used was taken from the "Bowling" skit. Maybe that had something to do with that rumor:

I know I didn't do it perfectly, I tried to match frame for frame the best I could from different sources, but I paused it as close to the exact moment as I could. I see how the top in the restored is showing, but the bottom is missing. I wish they would have zoomed out and showed the entire frame, and if a scan line is on the side of the screen so be it .. more info is better than none!

I donated many of my VHS tapes to a VA hospital here in Ohio back in the spring, and the Greatest Battles tape was one I gave. I didn't pay attention to the cover at the time, but I agree -- the picture could be what lead to the rumor.

Frank Gannucci

08-03-2011, 11:17 PM

In regards to remakes, I can confirm that despite Jackie, Audrey and Marilyn not wanting to include remakes (except for cases like "Alice's Aunt Ethel" & the remake "Goodbye Aunt Ethel because the latter is much longer), they decided to make an exception in regards to "What's Her Name" & "What's The Name." I know for a fact that BOTH of these episodes are int he syndication package despite the latter having the musical number.

Bill S.

08-03-2011, 11:54 PM

I know I didn't do it perfectly, I tried to match frame for frame the best I could from different sources, but I paused it as close to the exact moment as I could. I see how the top in the restored is showing, but the bottom is missing. I wish they would have zoomed out and showed the entire frame, and if a scan line is on the side of the screen so be it .. more info is better than none!
There does seem to be a slight video glitch at the bottom of the other caps, maybe they cropped that out? Not a major loss, the other versions still pale in comparison to the newly restored copy, and taking out some flickering here and there is probably for the best. I'm curious to see what they've done with shows like "Lawsuit" and "One Big Happy Family," I know Joe Alaskey re-recorded some of Gleason's lines for the syndicated version of "Lawsuit," and that pesky white line in "One Big Happy Family" was cropped out altogether in syndication.

In regards to remakes, I can confirm that despite Jackie, Audrey and Marilyn not wanting to include remakes (except for cases like "Alice's Aunt Ethel" & the remake "Goodbye Aunt Ethel because the latter is much longer), they decided to make an exception in regards to "What's Her Name" & "What's The Name." I know for a fact that BOTH of these episodes are int he syndication package despite the latter having the musical number.
Well the original Showtime lineup was different from Viacom's syndication package, there may have been a music clearance issue with "What's the Name" that was resolved by the time they were put into regular syndication. I believe the Viacom package includes every sketch that's been released except for "Lost Baby," "Quiz Show," and the "Manager of the Baseball Team" remake (and of course the recently released "Stand In for Murder" remake).

ChrisTV

08-04-2011, 12:43 AM

Great comparison Benno!!

I do remember "The Great Gleason" having the "Sprained Thumb" episode. At 1 time I had the VHS & the later DVD version & I believe it was on the DVD, & yes at the very end. & it also contained 2 lengthy segments from the 1952 "Christmas Party".

I do not remember "The New Bowling Ball" on the "Honeymooners Greatest Battles." I had both on VHS & DVD and it was never on them.

Would love to see a behind the scenes of the history of these being "found" and how they are restored.

Honeymooners_Myspace

08-07-2011, 03:06 PM

Hello everbody!... it's been a LOOONG time since I've been on here, and I apologize for the disappearance... well, AS SOON as my Pal O' Mine Charlie (aka Powbangzooom on here) and I heard the news about the new MPI Lost Episodes release just yesterday (I know, we're behind... Lol), we KNEW the ole' faithfuls on here would have all the up-to-date information on it... THANKS for all your info Bill, AS ALWAYS!... thanks to everyone else who contributed too...

Well, it's ABOUT TIME, huh?!... I really can't wait to actually get my hands on this new set and start checking it out... after reading the general list of what's included on the TVShowsonDvd.com website, it's almost too hard to believe what we're going to get in ONE Dvd package set... seems like almost everything we've been waiting for is going to be in it... I certainly hope so!...

When I think about it, it seems worth it to just sell my current MPI six boxed sets on eBay before October (which is in pristine condition - got them all at the same time as a package set brand new just a few years ago from a dealer on eBay), and using that money to get this set, AND have some kerns left over to-boot!... lol... because the price (ESPECIALLY on Amazon) seems incredibly reasonable... EVEN the $130 MPI price is WELL worth it!... heck, according to what's in this set, it would be worth it at over $300, which is what the current old set would cost you if you had to purchase each boxed set individually (using $50 per boxed set as a reasonable example), and it includes MUCH less pertinent footage than the new set...

With what I see that's included in the new collection, it seems pointless to keep the current MPI boxed sets I have OTHER than just having it as a collectible... do you agree with this???... I would like your opinion on that because if so, I'd like to list them asap on there so I can pre-order the new set in time for the release in just a couple of months...

Anyway, it's SO GREAT to finally get this WELL Overdue news, and it's ALSO GREAT to be back! :wave:

Ralphie Boy

TeeVeeCloset

08-08-2011, 09:12 AM

It was 1977 and the entire thing is on youtube, i'm going to watch tomorrow

Though the poster might have gotten some dates wrong, I believe he meant only 3 of the 4 reunion specials have been released. Since there were two christmas specials and the last one has only been officially released by MPI for some strange reason. so we still need the other christmas themed episode where Ralph directs "A Christmas Carol" offically released, though yes it is easily found in different degrees of quality in the collectors circuit.

1960'sTVfan

08-08-2011, 11:23 AM

I love The Honeymooners classic 39, but I'm not really fond of other Honeymooners variations. There is something special and unique in the classic 39, they have a certain charm and excellence all the way around that is absent in other Honeymooners shows.

Of the four pictures posted above, the ones on the bottom and top look the best. The two in the middle have a greenish tint and look the worst.

Dork

08-08-2011, 01:09 PM

It sounds like a amazing set! Unfortanely I will not be able to buy it due to lack of english subtitles and closed captioning so I will stick to the Classic 39 set, it would be great to see reviews when you all get it! :D

The Great One

08-08-2011, 03:37 PM

This is awesome news! I'm looking forward to buying the set when it becomes available!!!

Bill S.

08-08-2011, 05:09 PM

With what I see that's included in the new collection, it seems pointless to keep the current MPI boxed sets I have OTHER than just having it as a collectible... do you agree with this???... I would like your opinion on that because if so, I'd like to list them asap on there so I can pre-order the new set in time for the release in just a couple of months...
I see no reason to hang onto them, especially if you can get the money for the new set by selling them. Too bad I can't sell my old VHS tapes, nobody seems to want those anymore.

I love The Honeymooners classic 39, but I'm not really fond of other Honeymooners variations. There is something special and unique in the classic 39, they have a certain charm and excellence all the way around that is absent in other Honeymooners shows.
Which other variations are you referring to? I know that a lot of fans, myself included, have a hard time with the Color Honeymooners for several reasons (different wives, musical numbers, etc.), but I think a good number of the Lost Episodes hold their own against the Classic 39. After all, if it wasn't for those earlier sketches, there never would have been a Classic 39. I understand not wanting to spend $90 or more on something you may not like, but maybe you should check out the "Best of" disc that just came out before you write these shows off completely.

It sounds like a amazing set! Unfortanely I will not be able to buy it due to lack of english subtitles and closed captioning so I will stick to the Classic 39 set, it would be great to see reviews when you all get it! :D
What gives you the impression that there won't be subtitles? None of the information we've been given about this set indicates that. The recently released "Best of" disc has subtitles, so I'd say there's a good chance the box set will as well.

Dork

08-08-2011, 05:22 PM

I see no reason to hang on to them, especially if you can get the money for the new set by selling them. Too bad I can't sell my old VHS tapes, nobody seems to want those anymore.

Which other variations are you referring to? I know that a lot of fans, myself included, have a hard time with the Color Honeymooners for several reasons (different wives, musical numbers, etc.), but I think a good number of the Lost Episodes hold their own against the Classic 39. After all, if it wasn't for those earlier sketches, there never would have been a Classic 39. I understand not wanting to spend $90 or more on something you may not like, but maybe you should check out the "Best of" disc that just came out before you write these shows off completely.

What gives you the impression that there won't be subtitles? None of the information we've been given about this set indicates that. The recently released "Best of" disc has subtitles, so I'd say there's a good chance the box set will as well.

The company MPI never put english subtitles on any of their releases, wait, I guess I was wrong, whoops! Looks like I will be getting it then!

Honeymooners_Myspace

08-08-2011, 05:26 PM

I see no reason to hang on to them, especially if you can get the money for the new set by selling them. Too bad I can't sell my old VHS tapes, nobody seems to want those anymore.

Heyy Bill!... yeah, THAT's what I THOUGHT you were going to say, but I just wanted to make sure... Lol... I'm probably going to list them on eBay tonight... think I'm gonna try and get $240 for the set ($40 per boxed set), especially since they're in such great condition, and go from there...

You know, ONLY a MANIC would buy those for $240!... hey Bill, you wanna buy them???... haha!... anyway, good to hear from you, and thanks for your input. :wave:

Ralphie Boy

And by the way Bill (you knew that there just HAD to be a 'by the way' in here someplace), I'll be SURE to put in my item description, "Selling these because MPI, the same company that made this set, is coming out with a more comprehensive ALL-inclusive DVD set of the Lost Episodes, with BETTER quality AND at a much lower price in October, so there's NO need for me to hold on to these"... LMAO!

gallerynight

08-08-2011, 05:42 PM

Wasn't there also some Honeymooners done on Ed Sullivan's Toast of the Town & Jackie Gleason's American Scene Magazine which has never been released because it's not part of The Jackie Gleason Show? Any chance those episodes will be included on this new complete set?

Out of the 78 sketches released on VHS, the following 8 weren't included in the Showtime package, according to a list VIDEOWACK posted back in 2006:
"Lost Baby" - was still lost at the time.
"Quiz Show" - still lost as well.
"Lawsuit" - audio problems.
"Whats the Name" - remake w/ musical number.
"Vacation at Fred's Landing" - remake.
"Songwriters" - I believe this one was found by a private collector.
"One Big Happy Family" - noticeably damaged.
"Manager of the Baseball Team" - remake.

I always assumed that the three sketches from the Best of Gleason specials ("New Bowling Ball," "Six Months to Live" and "Bus Accident/Sprained Thumb") were part of the few that were found in the CBS vaults, which may explain why they weren't released by MPI.

The 1957 version of "Manager of the Baseball Team" was released on VHS, and I have the tape to prove it. The correct version was either on Volume 10 or 28, but the problem was that both tapes advertise the 1957 version, and one of them is actually the original. "Halloween Party for the Boss," on the other hand, was advertised on the back of the box, but never actually released. I don't believe the "Bowling" sketch was ever officially released, but I remember reading something similar about "Sprained Thumb" being on the "Great Gleason" tape, but it wasn't on my copy.

They might not have known they had it at the time, it just seems like a strange show to be missing.

BTW, Amazon now has the set listed at a discounted price of $90.99: http://www.amazon.com/Honeymooners-Lost-Episodes-Comp-Restored/dp/B005E7SEOI/ref=sr_1_19?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1312411345&sr=1-19

Bill S.

08-08-2011, 06:24 PM

Honeymooners_Myspace

08-08-2011, 06:32 PM

Then there were three sketches done on Gleason's American Scene Magazine

Bill, wasn't one of those called Two Below?... if so, that's the only one I have of those three, myself.

Bill S.

08-08-2011, 08:18 PM

Bill, wasn't one of those called Two Below?... if so, that's the only one I have of those three, myself.
Yes, "Two Below" (aka "Retreat to the Basement") was the first Honeymooners sketch done on Gleason's American Scene Magazine in 1962. That first episode was actually released on VHS by Goodtimes Home Video (See here (http://www.amazon.com/Jackie-Gleason-American-Scene/dp/B0002ZL1H4/ref=sr_1_17?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1312847984&sr=1-17)), which is why we have it today. The second sketch, "TV Game of the Week," is the one that even collectors don't have, but it is available for viewing at the Paley Center. During the final season of American Scene in 1966, Audrey Meadows returned to do a musical remake of the "The Adoption" (originally done in 1955). That entire hour-long episode was shown on TV Land in 2000 and has been in circulation ever since.

Gleason & Carney did another lesser-known Honeymooners skit during an hour-long TV special called "The Big Sell Revue," in 1960. For some reason, that short skit has not been very well documented and I don't recall ever reading about it in any of the several Honeymooners books that have come out over the years. I don't know who holds the rights to that particular show, or whether or not it will be included on the upcoming box set, but as with "TV Game of the Week," it can be viewed at the Paley Center. Once the set comes out and I know for sure what's on it, I'll put together a list of stuff that wasn't included.

Wisenheimer

08-09-2011, 07:57 AM

This is awesome!!! This will definitely save me some $$$ and disc space on my computer!!!

Honeymooners_Myspace

08-09-2011, 12:31 PM

Yes, "Two Below" (aka "Retreat to the Basement") was the first Honeymooners sketch done on Gleason's American Scene Magazine in 1962. That first episode was actually released on VHS by Goodtimes Home Video (See here (http://www.amazon.com/Jackie-Gleason-American-Scene/dp/B0002ZL1H4/ref=sr_1_17?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1312847984&sr=1-17)), which is why we have it today. The second sketch, "TV Game of the Week," is the one that even collectors don't have, but it is available for viewing at the Paley Center. During the final season of American Scene in 1966, Audrey Meadows returned to do a musical remake of the "The Adoption" (originally done in 1955). That entire hour-long episode was shown on TV Land in 2000 and has been in circulation ever since.

Gleason & Carney did another lesser-known Honeymooners skit during an hour-long TV special called "The Big Sell Revue," in 1960. For some reason, that short skit has not been very well documented and I don't recall ever reading about it in any of the several Honeymooners books that have come out over the years. I don't know who holds the rights to that particular show, or whether or not it will be included on the upcoming box set, but as with "TV Game of the Week," it can be viewed at the Paley Center. Once the set comes out and I know for sure what's on it, I'll put together a list of stuff that wasn't included.

Thanks for that information Bill, it was very helpful!... you're the best... inside that curly little head of yours is a THINKING MACHINE!... Lol.

Ralphie Boy

The Great One

08-10-2011, 09:45 PM

Honeymooners_Myspace

08-10-2011, 10:15 PM

I'm not sure if it was already mentioned in this thread but I just noticed that the 60th Anniversary Edition is listed on Amazon as being available in the widescreen format. What aspect ratio does everyone here prefer?

Hmmm, thanks for pointing that out... I still own a regular 27" picture tube, so I prefer standard format... is this the only format that it's going to be available in?

Bill S.

08-10-2011, 10:53 PM

I'm not sure if it was already mentioned in this thread but I just noticed that the 60th Anniversary Edition is listed on Amazon as being available in the widescreen format. What aspect ratio does everyone here prefer?
I hadn't noticed that until now, but I don't think it's accurate. For it to be widescreen, the aspect ratio would have to be larger than 4:3, which is the ratio listed on MPI's website (http://www.mpihomevideo.com/Store/Detail.asp?ProdID=10869). I don't know why Amazon allows users to add information like that, or why they allow people to write reviews on products before they're even released for that matter (19 reviews have been posted for the upcoming Laurel & Hardy set!), but here's a couple more examples of Honeymooners releases being listed with inaccurate product details:

New Lost Episodes "Best of" disc (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004XZ99XC/ref=s9_simh_gw_p74_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1ZJXWCJ3TKETX0FRFSZV&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846) - Listed as being in color
Color Honeymooners Collection 1 (http://www.amazon.com/Color-Honeymooners-Collection-1/dp/B000EXZFR6/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1313029346&sr=1-1) - Listed as having a run time of 60 minutes (for a 3-disc set!)

Honeymooners_Myspace

08-10-2011, 11:18 PM

I hadn't noticed that until now, but I don't think it's accurate. For it to be widescreen, the aspect ratio would have to be larger than 4:3, which is the ratio listed on MPI's website (http://www.mpihomevideo.com/Store/Detail.asp?ProdID=10869). I don't know why Amazon allows users to add information like that, or why they allow people to write reviews on products before they're even released for that matter (19 reviews have been posted for the upcoming Laurel & Hardy set!), but here's a couple more examples of Honeymooners releases being listed with inaccurate product details:

New Lost Episodes "Best of" disc (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004XZ99XC/ref=s9_simh_gw_p74_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1ZJXWCJ3TKETX0FRFSZV&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846) - Listed as being in color
Color Honeymooners Collection 1 (http://www.amazon.com/Color-Honeymooners-Collection-1/dp/B000EXZFR6/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1313029346&sr=1-1) - Listed as having a run time of 60 minutes (for a 3-disc set!)

Wow, you're right Bill... what an Abomination those product details are on there... sheeesh!... Lol.

The Great One

08-11-2011, 05:13 PM

Hmmm, thanks for pointing that out... I still own a regular 27" picture tube, so I prefer standard format... is this the only format that it's going to be available in?

I had no idea of what format the 60th Anniversary Edition would be released in after reading the information on Amazon but the details on the MPI website I believe are accurate.

The Great One

08-11-2011, 05:19 PM

I hadn't noticed that until now, but I don't think it's accurate. For it to be widescreen, the aspect ratio would have to be larger than 4:3, which is the ratio listed on MPI's website (http://www.mpihomevideo.com/Store/Detail.asp?ProdID=10869). I don't know why Amazon allows users to add information like that, or why they allow people to write reviews on products before they're even released for that matter (19 reviews have been posted for the upcoming Laurel & Hardy set!), but here's a couple more examples of Honeymooners releases being listed with inaccurate product details:

New Lost Episodes "Best of" disc (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004XZ99XC/ref=s9_simh_gw_p74_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1ZJXWCJ3TKETX0FRFSZV&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846) - Listed as being in color
Color Honeymooners Collection 1 (http://www.amazon.com/Color-Honeymooners-Collection-1/dp/B000EXZFR6/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1313029346&sr=1-1) - Listed as having a run time of 60 minutes (for a 3-disc set!)

Thanks for posting the links as they certainly clear up the confusion for me!

Honeymooners_Myspace

08-14-2011, 04:46 AM

ChrisTV

08-14-2011, 12:59 PM

Adamantium

08-14-2011, 04:23 PM

It looks like the Amazon pre-order price (http://www.amazon.com/Honeymooners-Lost-Episodes-Comp-Restored/dp/B005E7SEOI/ref=sr_1_19?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1312411345&sr=1-19&tag=vglnk-c1109-20#productPromotions) for this set went up from $91 to $117 :confused:

I'm glad I already pre-ordered it. I also pre-ordered Barney Miller for 98 bucks (as opposed to 150, or whatever it was).

Honeymooners_Myspace

08-14-2011, 11:51 PM

Looks like familyvideo.com has the cheapest price now ($89.99 )...

http://www.familyvideo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=390653&source=shopping

or barnesandnoble.com ($92.29)...

http://video.barnesandnoble.com/DVD/Honeymooners-Lost-Episodes-Comp-Restored-Series/e/30306788395?r=1&mr:referralID=c3fdcf0a%2Dc695%2D11e0%2D891e%2D001b2166c2c0&cm_mmc=PriceGrabber-_-Category-_-Title-_-30306788395

Hi Chris, thanks for that info!... the only thing about Amazon is that it has free shipping with orders over $25, but even then so, it would be a much better deal WITH shipping and the $89.99 price... I'm in the process of selling my current six boxed-set of The Lost Episodes right now on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180708426985&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_1008wt_1344), because my plan is to use THAT money to pre-order this new set, so hopefully it sells soon so that I can catch some of these good deals before they start going up, like what happened just now with the Amazon price...

BUT, you have to admit that EVEN at the $130 price directly from MPI, it's still a great deal compared to how much the last set cost if you had to get all six boxed-sets (I paid $180 for mine new, and that was a deal), AND not even counting the fact that this collection has A LOT more in it than that one, according to the description on TVShowsonDvd.com (http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Jackie-Gleason-The-Honeymooners-Lost-Episodes-The-Complete-Restored-Series/15757#ixzz1TxQN4oB3) :D

The Great One

08-15-2011, 05:06 PM

I just noticed that the cost for the 60th Anniversary Edition on Amazon went up! Have they ever raised their prices on DVDs before?

Benno123

08-15-2011, 07:49 PM

On Amazon prices for preorders go up, and they go down, and they go up, and they go down. Best bet is to wait until they go down, which they will again. However, what you order at will not neccessarily be the price you pay. If you preorder at $120, and the price drops to $40, anyone who ordered before the price dropped will pay the lowest price the item went to before shipment.

I believe you also have 12 days after the item ships that if you see an Amazon price lower than what you paid, you can request a refund of teh difference - but double check me on this one.

Honeymooners_Myspace

08-16-2011, 01:27 AM

I just noticed that the cost for the 60th Anniversary Edition on Amazon went up! Have they ever raised their prices on DVDs before?

Haha, yeah Great One, I just had posted the same question a couple of entries up, and as you see, Chris posted a couple of links in reply to where the set is being sold at pre-order prices cheaper than Amazon's new increased price... hopefully THOSE prices will be the same for a few weeks, because the $89.99 price looks PRETTY good at the moment :D

Honeymooners_Myspace

08-16-2011, 01:29 AM

ChrisTV

08-16-2011, 02:32 AM

Bill S.

08-16-2011, 05:06 PM

Wikipedia has updated their list of "Cavalcade of Stars" Honeymooners episodes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Honeymooners_episodes

Looks like this list was updated based on the info listed on a previous thread "Honeymooners Scripts in Harry Crane Collection at UCLA"

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=259982

It will be interesting to see if this list is updated in the 60" Anniv DVD booklet.
A Wikipedia user by the name of Britinvasion64 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Britinvasion64) seems to be responsible for these recent additions (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_The_Honeymooners_episodes&action=history). According to their profile, they love studying and researching a number of things, but left out the part about taking information from message boards that they themselves cannot confirm. I appreciate Honeymooners fans learning from us here and trying to be helpful to other fans, but as far as I'm concerned, this person is no better than the Amazon users that add information and post reviews about DVDs that haven't even been released. Take, for example, Britinvasion64's recently-added description of "The Turkey": "In this recently re-discovered sketch, Ralph thinks a turkey ate Alice's wedding ring and attempts to extract it with Norton's help." Now, where could somebody have found such information? Oh, that's right, on this very message board.

The same exact message board where Ben posted a link to Harry Crane's papers, which, as Chris pointed out, is the source of the information added to Wikipedia. Now, I'm not saying that the information posted here should be exclusive and shouldn't be passed along, and I'm not even saying we should be credited for having posted such information, but you should at least maybe consult with us before you go posting that information elsewhere without knowing the legitimacy of it. We could have made up the whole story about "The Turkey" being found...we didn't, but we COULD have. And as far as additional DuMont skits go...more research needs to be done before it can be confirmed whether or not some of those scripts were even produced. Just because they have dates next to them doesn't mean they were actually performed on those dates.

The overall point I'm trying to get across is this: The Honeymooners is a difficult series to keep up with, and for that reason it's been plagued with so much false information being spread about it over the years...from inaccuracies being printed in books and on the backs of VHS and DVD cases, to Gleason's own daughter telling the LA Times last year that "Jellybeans" had never been seen or released before. So when somebody like this comes along and posts this kind of information on Wikipedia for millions of people to see, they're not part of the solution, they're part of the problem. Once again, I appreciate the effort and I'm glad to see people taking an interest in such things, but this needed to be said. Hopefully others that refuse to sign up and participate in these discussions with us will read this and pass it along.

The Great One

08-16-2011, 05:48 PM

Haha, yeah Great One, I just had posted the same question a couple of entries up, and as you see, Chris posted a couple of links in reply to where the set is being sold at pre-order prices cheaper than Amazon's new increased price... hopefully THOSE prices will be the same for a few weeks, because the $89.99 price looks PRETTY good at the moment :D

I got confused when I saw the different prices and I should have read all the posts before commenting. I'm not a regular buyer of DVDs from Amazon so it's interesting to learn what they do with their prices. $89.99 is definitely the road I will take if no one else sells the 60th Anniversary Edition cheaper.

The Great One

08-16-2011, 05:58 PM

On Amazon prices for preorders go up, and they go down, and they go up, and they go down. Best bet is to wait until they go down, which they will again. However, what you order at will not necessarily be the price you pay. If you preorder at $120, and the price drops to $40, anyone who ordered before the price dropped will pay the lowest price the item went to before shipment.

I believe you also have 12 days after the item ships that if you see an Amazon price lower than what you paid, you can request a refund of the difference - but double check me on this one.

Thanks for posting the details as it helps me to understand how Amazon does business!

The Great One

08-16-2011, 06:11 PM

A Wikipedia user by the name of Britinvasion64 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Britinvasion64) seems to be responsible for these recent additions (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_The_Honeymooners_episodes&action=history). According to their profile, they love studying and researching a number of things, but left out the part about taking information from message boards that they themselves cannot confirm. I appreciate Honeymooners fans learning from us here and trying to be helpful to other fans, but as far as I'm concerned, this person is no better than the Amazon users that add information and post reviews about DVDs that haven't even been released. Take, for example, Britinvasion64's recently-added description of "The Turkey": "In this recently re-discovered sketch, Ralph thinks a turkey ate Alice's wedding ring and attempts to extract it with Norton's help." Now, where could somebody have found such information? Oh, that's right, on this very message board.

The same exact message board where Ben posted a link to Harry Crane's papers, which, as Chris pointed out, is the source of the information added to Wikipedia. Now, I'm not saying that the information posted here should be exclusive and shouldn't be passed along, and I'm not even saying we should be credited for having posted such information, but you should at least maybe consult with us before you go posting that information elsewhere without knowing the legitimacy of it. We could have made up the whole story about "The Turkey" being found...we didn't, but we COULD have. And as far as additional DuMont skits go...more research needs to be done before it can be confirmed whether or not some of those scripts were even produced. Just because they have dates next to them doesn't mean they were actually performed on those dates.

The overall point I'm trying to get across is this: The Honeymooners is a difficult series to keep up with, and for that reason it's been plagued with so much false information being spread about it over the years...from inaccuracies being printed in books and on the backs of VHS and DVD cases, to Gleason's own daughter telling the LA Times last year that "Jellybeans" had never been seen or released before. So when somebody like this comes along and posts this kind of information on Wikipedia for millions of people to see, they're not part of the solution, they're part of the problem. Once again, I appreciate the effort and I'm glad to see people taking an interest in such things, but this needed to be said. Hopefully others that refuse to sign up and participate in these discussions with us will read this and pass it along.

I enjoy reading the posts on the Honeymooners forum because I have learned a lot about the show that I didn't know before. You have provided a lot of great information over the years. Your efforts are greatly appreciated!

Benno123

08-16-2011, 08:31 PM

A Wikipedia user by the name of Britinvasion64 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Britinvasion64) seems to be responsible for these recent additions (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_The_Honeymooners_episodes&action=history). According to their profile, they love studying and researching a number of things, but left out the part about taking information from message boards that they themselves cannot confirm. I appreciate Honeymooners fans learning from us here and trying to be helpful to other fans, but as far as I'm concerned, this person is no better than the Amazon users that add information and post reviews about DVDs that haven't even been released. Take, for example, Britinvasion64's recently-added description of "The Turkey": "In this recently re-discovered sketch, Ralph thinks a turkey ate Alice's wedding ring and attempts to extract it with Norton's help." Now, where could somebody have found such information? Oh, that's right, on this very message board.

The same exact message board where Ben posted a link to Harry Crane's papers, which, as Chris pointed out, is the source of the information added to Wikipedia. Now, I'm not saying that the information posted here should be exclusive and shouldn't be passed along, and I'm not even saying we should be credited for having posted such information, but you should at least maybe consult with us before you go posting that information elsewhere without knowing the legitimacy of it. We could have made up the whole story about "The Turkey" being found...we didn't, but we COULD have. And as far as additional DuMont skits go...more research needs to be done before it can be confirmed whether or not some of those scripts were even produced. Just because they have dates next to them doesn't mean they were actually performed on those dates.

The overall point I'm trying to get across is this: The Honeymooners is a difficult series to keep up with, and for that reason it's been plagued with so much false information being spread about it over the years...from inaccuracies being printed in books and on the backs of VHS and DVD cases, to Gleason's own daughter telling the LA Times last year that "Jellybeans" had never been seen or released before. So when somebody like this comes along and posts this kind of information on Wikipedia for millions of people to see, they're not part of the solution, they're part of the problem. Once again, I appreciate the effort and I'm glad to see people taking an interest in such things, but this needed to be said. Hopefully others that refuse to sign up and participate in these discussions with us will read this and pass it along.

Well, one thing to remember is that if the script material is available for review, then someone could go in and read and get the jist of the script/sketch pretty easily. So as far as "The Turkey" goes it looks like this could be the case. However, since I had trouble getting information from UCLA then I have to go by assumptions. But the information is available out in the public, and the person who posted to Wikipedia could have access to more additional information than anyone here.

If you compare dates of Cavalcade shows from the 1951-1952 season, you will see that some script material dates match dates that Cavalcade shows were performed. I used two reference points I had access to to cross check dates of when Gleason hosted Cavalcade that season and when he was off, plus any newspaper or TV Guide listings when I had access to those. Dates that were given on the Crane scripts matched, so there is a 99% chance that that sketch was performed on that show. I think that assumption is one that we can call accurate.

If there is an 8th Cavalcade sketch going to be released on the new set, then just think that it will be one that is marked "still lost." Now that is a nice thought!

Is it me, or is it ironic that we have Halloween sketches and Christmas sketches, but an Easter sketch from both the DuMont and CBS years is still missing?!?!?

Bill S.

08-17-2011, 12:01 AM

Well, one thing to remember is that if the script material is available for review, then someone could go in and read and get the jist of the script/sketch pretty easily. So as far as "The Turkey" goes it looks like this could be the case. However, since I had trouble getting information from UCLA then I have to go by assumptions. But the information is available out in the public, and the person who posted to Wikipedia could have access to more additional information than anyone here.
It's possible that they had access to the scripts, but the script for "The Turkey" wouldn't say that it was "recently re-discovered." That information more than likely came from this board or from TV.com. If they did have access to the scripts, they could've just as easily gotten the gist of what sketches like "Missing Pants" and "Alice's Birthday" were about as well, but there were no descriptions added for those.

If you compare dates of Cavalcade shows from the 1951-1952 season, you will see that some script material dates match dates that Cavalcade shows were performed. I used two reference points I had access to to cross check dates of when Gleason hosted Cavalcade that season and when he was off, plus any newspaper or TV Guide listings when I had access to those. Dates that were given on the Crane scripts matched, so there is a 99% chance that that sketch was performed on that show. I think that assumption is one that we can call accurate.
The dates do match up to nights Gleason was there, I can't argue with that, but that still doesn't mean they used those scripts (there's even one labeled as "Unproduced.") You have to consider, with Gleason's reputation for arguing with writers, that Harry Crane could've written a script for a certain night only to find out Gleason didn't like it. I remember hearing a story from the Cavalcade days about Gleason not being satisfied with a script and deciding to go out and do a sketch completely unscripted. So, while assumptions about some of these shows may be true, they're still assumptions and shouldn't be presented as facts without more concrete evidence to support them. People making assumptions in the past is the reason fans have been led to believe that "Vacation at Fred's Landing" was the first sketch to run more than 30 minutes, and "A Weighty Problem" was the longest-running Lost Episode, and "Lost Baby" is the earliest surviving Lost Episode (wasn't even true at the time).

If there is an 8th Cavalcade sketch going to be released on the new set, then just think that it will be one that is marked "still lost." Now that is a nice thought!
From what I've read, Harry Crane was the exclusive writer for The Honeymooners from Cavalcade of Stars through the first season of The Jackie Gleason Show, so the script for this 8th Cavalcade sketch should be in his collection at UCLA. Then again, there are a couple others that I noticed weren't accounted for...off the top of my head I remember "The Prowler" not being listed. "Ralph Threatens to Leave" from 11/16/51 doesn't appear by that title either, but there was that one Cavalcade sketch that was done without a script, so it could have been that one, or it could be the script labeled "Meat Substitute."

Is it me, or is it ironic that we have Halloween sketches and Christmas sketches, but an Easter sketch from both the DuMont and CBS years is still missing?!?!?
And apparently a Thanksgiving sketch as well, which was left off the Wikipedia list.

ChrisTV

08-17-2011, 01:19 AM

Great points Benno & Bill.
I will not be updating the tv.com site until the 60th set is released & hopefully includes an updated list.

gilligan fanatic

08-18-2011, 08:02 AM

Can't wait for this set!

ChrisTV

08-24-2011, 01:50 AM

comedyfreak

08-24-2011, 04:25 AM

Thanks for the info I have to get this collection.

The Great One

08-24-2011, 04:46 PM

deepdiscount.com now has the best price. $90.99 (inc free standard shipping)

http://www.deepdiscount.com/product/lost-episodes-030306788395/

Couldn't find it through a search on their site though, found it using google.
This is where I purchase most of my dvds.

Have you ever had problems with Deep Discount with their free standard shipping? I've read many complaints online from people who have purchased DVDs and having to either wait to long or not receiving their items at all. It's because of negative comments that I haven't bought anything from Deep Discount.

Benno123

08-24-2011, 06:01 PM

Have you ever had problems with Deep Discount with their free standard shipping? I've read many complaints online from people who have purchased DVDs and having to either wait to long or not receiving their items at all. It's because of negative comments that I haven't bought anything from Deep Discount.

I used them once, and I stress once. I had a horrible experience, I ordered a DVD - I believe it was a Night Court season set (doesn't matter) - and received the notice that the disc shipped. I waited and waited, and it never arrived so I finally contacted customer service after 3 or 4 weeks and they sent another one. Fine, except they charged my card for the new one (which ticked me off and I had to spend more time getting that charge taken off my card.) When the DVD finally did arrive, the package was all beat to hell (maybe not actually DD's fault, but after what had happened it would not surprise me that it was sent that way.) but luckily the discs were fine.

I've become really disenchanted (for lack of a better word) with Barnes and Noble's shipping. I have a membership card with them, and they use to use FedEx for their "free 1-3 day" shipping for members. Now they use the postal service, and it takes a week or more for items to get here. That is not what I signed up for and hence when my membership expires in the next few weeks I will not be renewing. This has only happened within the last few months, since maybe before the holidays in 2010.

Do you also remember the days when you could preorder an item from Amazon, pay the standard shipping rate and have it on the day it was released? Now to have it on the day it is released you have to pay an overnight fee which is BS, but just another way for them to screw the consumers.

I have bought a few things from buy.com, including some preorder stuff, and had good luck with them. I'm not saying this time will be the same or worse than other situations, but I have considered preordering from them. It just irks me when I preorder something months in advance and have to wait 7+ days AFTER it is released to receive my items when someone else gets it sometimes a week BEFORE the release date. But I guess it is what it is ....

Dork

08-24-2011, 06:50 PM

I used them once, and I stress once. I had a horrible experience, I ordered a DVD - I believe it was a Night Court season set (doesn't matter) - and received the notice that the disc shipped. I waited and waited, and it never arrived so I finally contacted customer service after 3 or 4 weeks and they sent another one. Fine, except they charged my card for the new one (which ticked me off and I had to spend more time getting that charge taken off my card.) When the DVD finally did arrive, the package was all beat to hell (maybe not actually DD's fault, but after what had happened it would not surprise me that it was sent that way.) but luckily the discs were fine.

I've become really disenchanted (for lack of a better word) with Barnes and Noble's shipping. I have a membership card with them, and they use to use FedEx for their "free 1-3 day" shipping for members. Now they use the postal service, and it takes a week or more for items to get here. That is not what I signed up for and hence when my membership expires in the next few weeks I will not be renewing. This has only happened within the last few months, since maybe before the holidays in 2010.

Do you also remember the days when you could preorder an item from Amazon, pay the standard shipping rate and have it on the day it was released? Now to have it on the day it is released you have to pay an overnight fee which is BS, but just another way for them to screw the consumers.

I have bought a few things from buy.com, including some preorder stuff, and had good luck with them. I'm not saying this time will be the same or worse than other situations, but I have considered preordering from them. It just irks me when I preorder something months in advance and have to wait 7+ days AFTER it is released to receive my items when someone else gets it sometimes a week BEFORE the release date. But I guess it is what it is ....

DeepDiscount used to be a good company, I used to order their DVDs if their prices are lower than Amazon and I have no problems getting them in time but I have not ordered from DeepDiscount in years but I have heard alot of complaints that it never arrives or it finally arrives after months, I am suprised it did not went out of business yet!

CultTVman

08-24-2011, 10:07 PM

I've ordered many many times from Deep Discount DVD and never had a problem. On occasion I've ordered something obscure that was out of stock, but they've always notified me about it. In fact, many times when I've ordered from them, I've received the discs before the official release date.

Steve

ChrisTV

08-25-2011, 12:24 AM

I have been buying from them for over 5 years now & not 1 problem. They always notify me on any changes, etc. No complaints here.

The Great One

08-25-2011, 06:06 PM

I used them once, and I stress once. I had a horrible experience, I ordered a DVD - I believe it was a Night Court season set (doesn't matter) - and received the notice that the disc shipped. I waited and waited, and it never arrived so I finally contacted customer service after 3 or 4 weeks and they sent another one. Fine, except they charged my card for the new one (which ticked me off and I had to spend more time getting that charge taken off my card.) When the DVD finally did arrive, the package was all beat to hell (maybe not actually DD's fault, but after what had happened it would not surprise me that it was sent that way.) but luckily the discs were fine.

I've become really disenchanted (for lack of a better word) with Barnes and Noble's shipping. I have a membership card with them, and they use to use FedEx for their "free 1-3 day" shipping for members. Now they use the postal service, and it takes a week or more for items to get here. That is not what I signed up for and hence when my membership expires in the next few weeks I will not be renewing. This has only happened within the last few months, since maybe before the holidays in 2010.

Do you also remember the days when you could preorder an item from Amazon, pay the standard shipping rate and have it on the day it was released? Now to have it on the day it is released you have to pay an overnight fee which is BS, but just another way for them to screw the consumers.

I have bought a few things from buy.com, including some preorder stuff, and had good luck with them. I'm not saying this time will be the same or worse than other situations, but I have considered preordering from them. It just irks me when I preorder something months in advance and have to wait 7+ days AFTER it is released to receive my items when someone else gets it sometimes a week BEFORE the release date. But I guess it is what it is ....

Thanks for the information! I'll definitely remember everything you said the next time I think about ordering stuff from any of the places you have mentioned.

Benno123

08-25-2011, 08:51 PM

Thanks for the information! I'll definitely remember everything you said the next time I think about ordering stuff from any of the places you have mentioned.

No problem. Based on what Chris and the others said about Deep Discount, I would be willing to give them another try, however NOT on a major release/purchase (to me anyway) like this!

Like I said, I haven't used buy.com for awhile, had good luck with them but it's been long enough that things can change. And the way my luck goes, it probably has!!! :)

The Great One

08-26-2011, 02:48 PM

No problem. Based on what Chris and the others said about Deep Discount, I would be willing to give them another try, however NOT on a major release/purchase (to me anyway) like this!

Like I said, I haven't used buy.com for awhile, had good luck with them but it's been long enough that things can change. And the way my luck goes, it probably has!!! :)

You bring up a very good point! I'll probably end up buying the 60th Anniversary Edition from Amazon and avoid Deep Discount for big ticket items.

ChrisTV

08-28-2011, 02:25 AM

Looks like the run time went from 50 hours to 0 min.
Could there be more changes & additions?

http://www.mpihomevideo.com/Store/Detail.asp?ProdID=10869

WilburAndMrEd

08-28-2011, 11:33 AM

Amazon has now dropped the price to $80.99

Bill S.

08-28-2011, 04:15 PM

Looks like the run time went from 50 hours to 0 min.
Could there be more changes & additions?

http://www.mpihomevideo.com/Store/Detail.asp?ProdID=10869
It's always said "0 min." on the MPI site, I remember noticing it the first day they put it up. I think that just happens when they don't put up an exact running time. They need to update that site more often, everything Honeymooners or Gleason-related is now filed under "Color Honeymooners." I'm surprised they had this listed on their site before anybody else though, usually a new release is announced on TVshowsonDVD.com with a link to pre-order on Amazon before it's even mentioned on the MPI website. One more thing worth pointing out: it now says "Full Screen" on Amazon.

Adamantium

08-28-2011, 04:17 PM

Looks like the run time went from 50 hours to 0 min.

That would be something if it turns out all these Honeymooners sketches didn't exist anymore. We all buy this DVD box set, open it up, put the first disc in and it's a blank disc. Then you'd put the other discs in and they're all blank, too. MPI would then say to the angry customer "Look at the the run time of the DVD. It says 0 minutes. Where's the false advertisement?"

That would be WRONG!!! ;)

ChrisTV

08-30-2011, 12:25 AM

Just cancelled my order on deepdiscount.
Amazon has the set coming in @ $80.99 now.
This is now the best price anywhere....

http://www.amazon.com/Honeymooners-Episodes-1951-1957-Complete-Restored/dp/B005E7SEOI

The Great One

08-30-2011, 05:43 PM

Amazon has now dropped the price to $80.99

Awesome!!! Thanks for posting the information!

The Great One

08-30-2011, 05:51 PM

That would be something if it turns out all these Honeymooners sketches didn't exist anymore. We all buy this DVD box set, open it up, put the first disc in and it's a blank disc. Then you'd put the other discs in and they're all blank, too. MPI would then say to the angry customer "Look at the the run time of the DVD. It says 0 minutes. Where's the false advertisement?"

That would be WRONG!!! ;)

Hilarious comment! For $80.99 you can buy 15 blank DVDs from Amazon plus you get free shipping. lol

Bill S.

09-06-2011, 08:31 PM

I wish the people at Amazon would stop allowing people to post such ridiculous things: http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AE7B1XPBB105X/ref=cm_cr_pr_auth_rev?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview

ChrisTV

09-06-2011, 11:57 PM

You're right Bill. These peoples comments should be shot down!

Marvo301

09-07-2011, 12:59 AM

I wish the people at Amazon would stop allowing people to post such ridiculous things: http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AE7B1XPBB105X/ref=cm_cr_pr_auth_rev?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview
I'm sure this reviewer is in the minority. In fact I'm pretty sure it's a minority of one. Of course these episodes should be seen the way they were originally broadcast - in glorious black and white!!!!

Benno123

09-07-2011, 09:13 PM

I'm sure this reviewer is in the minority. In fact I'm pretty sure it's a minority of one. Of course these episodes should be seen the way they were originally broadcast - in glorious black and white!!!!

For some reason the reply at the link below cracked me up, and I'm still laughing!

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1PGQZNKU9N8O6/ref=cm_cr_rev_detmd_pl?ie=UTF8&cdForum=FxKCAZJZ92Z1KA&cdMsgNo=5&cdPage=1&asin=B005E7SEOI&store=movies-tv&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=Tx1AAJQ73CXDQOJ&cdMsgID=Mx3DIFF4M2NWUR0#Mx3DIFF4M2NWUR0

Bill S.

09-08-2011, 04:49 PM

The MPI site now has the running time as "3000 min."
http://www.mpihomevideo.com/Store/Detail.asp?ProdID=10869

Marvo301

09-08-2011, 04:53 PM

For some reason the reply at the link below cracked me up, and I'm still laughing!

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1PGQZNKU9N8O6/ref=cm_cr_rev_detmd_pl?ie=UTF8&cdForum=FxKCAZJZ92Z1KA&cdMsgNo=5&cdPage=1&asin=B005E7SEOI&store=movies-tv&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=Tx1AAJQ73CXDQOJ&cdMsgID=Mx3DIFF4M2NWUR0#Mx3DIFF4M2NWUR0
That is funny!

ChrisTV

09-09-2011, 02:47 PM

Benno123

09-09-2011, 04:32 PM

Here is the official press release...

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/314643/mpi-press-release-the-honeymooners-lost-episodes-the-complete-series-1951-1957

New info...

2 Honeymooners radio shows.
Never knew about this. Anyone have any info on these?

14 full-length shows, I wonder if this means the entire "JGS"?

9 known surviving sketches from Cavalcade of Stars.

Looking good!!!

Never heard of the radio stuff. I know Gleason appeared in an episode of The Life Of Riley filling in for William Bendix when Bendix could not appear (Gleason was on TV version, Bendix on radio) and that was really all I knew about his radio stuff. Will be interesting to learn more.

One can only hope that "full length" means an entire JGS, but I have a feeling it's referring to shows longer than 30 minutes, just because in the release it is followed by "4 sketches," which may mean "10 - 15 mins" in length. But we shall see, we shall see :)

Interesting how the number of surviving DuMont shows keep going up, from 7 (when Disney aired them in the specials they showed) to 8 just a few weeks ago to 9 today. Always a good sign. I'll be curious to see what the "new" two shows will be. Unless they're adding the two performed on the Sullivan's Toast of the Town and counting those? Again, we shall see!

This looks like a wonderful set, perhaps in the running for Release of the Year!

I had $75 in Barnes and Noble cards to burn up, and it's currently $85-something plus the tax and shipping, so for around $19 or so out of my pocket I'll be getting the set. Not bad, if I can get all this for under $20 I'll take it. Now let's see how soon it arrives after it is supposed to ship!!! :confused: :eek: :rolleyes: :D

The Great One

09-09-2011, 05:56 PM

The Great One

09-09-2011, 06:14 PM

MrBand

09-09-2011, 07:48 PM

Thanks for posting the link! The new information that's been posted provides some awesome details and MPI will probably end up selling a lot of sets. Definitely Release of the Year!!!

I'm usually more reserved with my enthusiasm, but after reading the press release....WOO HOO! or in this case, WOO WOO!

Bill S.

09-09-2011, 09:15 PM

2 Honeymooners radio shows. Never knew about this. Anyone have any info on these?
Radio shows are news to me. Makes you wonder what other stuff might be out there that we don't know about. The cast did perform at the Paramount Theatre in 1954, and I know a number of live performances were recorded there. The possibility of additional material being out there does keep things interesting!

Interesting how the number of surviving DuMont shows keep going up, from 7 (when Disney aired them in the specials they showed) to 8 just a few weeks ago to 9 today. Always a good sign. I'll be curious to see what the "new" two shows will be. Unless they're adding the two performed on the Sullivan's Toast of the Town and counting those? Again, we shall see!
That number does concern me a bit, considering we knew of only nine existing Pert Kelton sketches leading up to this. Though, it does say, regarding those sketches, that they're "from the DuMont Cavalcade of Stars variety show," so there's still the possibility that they're shows we haven't seen. Only time will tell...

The Great One

09-10-2011, 02:12 PM

I'm usually more reserved with my enthusiasm, but after reading the press release....WOO HOO! or in this case, WOO WOO!

Hilarious comment and I agree with what you said. I haven't been excited about a DVD release in a long time but the 60th Anniversary Edition set is something I'm looking forward to buying and watching every disc.

Adamantium

09-10-2011, 04:30 PM

ChrisTV

09-12-2011, 02:23 AM

Found this on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi0jEjBBiDw
UCLA's restoration process of "The Goldbergs".
Looks like they do excellent work.
Looking very much forward to see what they do with The Lost Episodes.

The Great One

09-12-2011, 11:36 AM

To me, it's as if they're making new honeymooners shows because I haven't seen many of the lost episodes but also because they're finding some that no one has seen (except for the original broadcast). It's a way of keeping the franchise fresh. Who knows, they may dig up some more sketches in a few years and have a new release.

I wonder if Jackie Gleason knew that in the year 2011 there would be so much excitment for his Honeymooners work to be released.

That's the same way I see it. I haven't seen most of the lost episodes and the 60th Anniversary Edition set makes it seem like new Honeymooners shows have been made and are ready for the 2011 TV season.

Adamantium

09-12-2011, 04:34 PM

That's the same way I see it. I haven't seen most of the lost episodes and the 60th Anniversary Edition set makes it seem like new Honeymooners shows have been made and are ready for the 2011 TV season.

Yep. I've been watching the Classic 39 since around 1998 (when I bought the complete VHS collection). I love those episodes and thinking about this new boxed set it dawned on me that I'll finally be seeing "episodes" I have never ever seen before. It's rather exciting. Because I watched the heck out of those 39 episodes, lol.

Bill S.

09-12-2011, 05:18 PM

Who knows, they may dig up some more sketches in a few years and have a new release.
Well, according to the press release, there are still some shows missing, so if those turn up, maybe they'll put out something for the 70th anniversary. A lot has been found since Gleason first went public with the Lost Episodes, so I'm confident that we'll see more discoveries in the future.

The Great One

09-16-2011, 02:02 PM

Yep. I've been watching the Classic 39 since around 1998 (when I bought the complete VHS collection). I love those episodes and thinking about this new boxed set it dawned on me that I'll finally be seeing "episodes" I have never ever seen before. It's rather exciting. Because I watched the heck out of those 39 episodes, lol.

I remember when the only episodes that aired on TV were the Classic 39 and I must have seen each show hundreds of times. The 60th Anniversary Edition is definitely something that will excite any Honeymooners fan.

Bill S.

09-17-2011, 09:40 PM

With just about two weeks to go before it's released, we know pretty much everything there is to know about this set except the exact contents (episode list, bonus material). Assuming the press release is accurate, there should be five Audrey Meadows sketches missing, but which exact ones have yet to be revealed. As confident as I am that the remaining shows will turn up eventually, there are a few things that I'm really hoping we get to see this time around, such as:

A complete version of "Fortune Teller," the only 30+ minute show with an original storyline that hasn't been released. To make things even more interesting, the Nortons' bedroom was shown in the 60s remake, so there's a possibility that it may have been shown in the original as well. Funny how, just a few years ago, it was thought that the only time the bedroom was shown was in "The Sleepwalker."
The famous moment where Carney had to come in through the window because the door was stuck. While we still haven't figured out which episode this occurred in, my guess would be one of the sketches from the first CBS season. Hopefully "The Turkey," or another previously unreleased sketch that's included, will contain that memorable moment.
"Halloween Party for the Boss." I believe it was confirmed some years back that MPI did have this show, which would make sense, considering they at least attempted to release it at one point. What makes this one stand out to me compared to other remakes is the possibility that it might be an expanded version, which the "for the Boss" addition to the title leads me to believe. Though a running time of almost 12 minutes has been floating around, I don't know the exact source of that information. It seems strange that they would do a 12-minute sketch at that point in time, when every other Honeymooners show from that season ran over 30 minutes. They did a great job expanding shorter sketches like "Alice's Aunt Ethel" and "Finger Man," so it would definitely be interesting to see what they would've done with this storyline.

Benno123

09-18-2011, 01:38 PM

The Great One

09-20-2011, 04:42 PM

The excitement is building!

gilligan fanatic

09-26-2011, 04:22 PM

Just preordered mine. One week from tomorrow and it will be out. I wonder if there will be any reviews before Tuesday.

ChrisTV

09-27-2011, 09:04 PM

Benno123

09-27-2011, 09:17 PM

First review....

http://www.fulvuedrive-in.com/review/11196/The+Honeymooners+Lost+Episodes+1951+–+1957:+60th+Anniversary+Edition+(MPI+DVD+Box+Set)

POINTS OF INTEREST...

1) The set has 107 of the known 128 skits (including several that were remakes) are here (the others are still lost) including 48 shorter and 59 that are longer?
HUH?
Are they including the missing Dupont sketches in this total?

2) When did Patricia Morrison portray Trixie before Joyce Randolph?

3) six skits where Carney stays in character as Norton dubbed The Norton Interviews.
Note 6 skits?

4) two Lost Radio Episodes just found where the cast recorded two radio program versions of the show to promote the show but where never broadcast.

5) scripts for three missing episodes.
Are these shows never performed or are still missing?

6) The illustrated booklet does include an episode guide.
Thank goodness!

Thanks for sharing the link, though I wish a list of what shows were available still would have been nice. If 107 out of 128 survive, what are the still missing that's not accounted for? I'm hoping maybe atleast one of the "Six Months To Live" is included as the 1952 CBS version exists and is easily available on the collectors market. Not counting the DuMont shows we can probably narrow down to what is not on the set, but I'm tired and don't want to put that much effort into it!!!

I do expect more reviews to show up through the weekend, including one here on sitcomsonline.com. They always have great reviews, so we can probably get more info when sitcoms does a review.

Bill S.

09-27-2011, 10:45 PM

That review was a bit confusing, let me take a stab at clearing things up...

1) The set has 107 of the known 128 skits (including several that were remakes) are here (the others are still lost) including 48 shorter and 59 that are longer? HUH? Are they including the missing Dupont sketches in this total?
The press release had a total of 107 as well, including nine with Pert Kelton. That means five Audrey Meadows sketches are missing, and 21 sketches are missing altogether. That would mean an additional sixteen sketches featuring Pert Kelton were produced during the latter half of the 1951-1952 season of Cavalcade. It'll be interesting to see if those missing shows are included in the episode guide.

2) When did Patricia Morrison portray Trixie before Joyce Randolph?
That threw me off as well. As far as I'd ever known, Elaine Stritch was the first Trixie and was replaced by Joyce Randolph after one appearance. Patricia Morrison did appear in the 1952 version of "Christmas Party," as an old friend of Trixie's, but that's the only thing I can think of linking Patricia Morrison to The Honeymooners.

3) six skits where Carney stays in character as Norton dubbed The Norton Interviews. Note 6 skits?
Offhand I can think of: Ed Sullivan interviewing Carney as Norton, Robert Q. Lewis & Carney (as Norton's father, I believe), three segments where Gleason interviewed Carney in character from the '56-'57 season, and Johnnie Ray speaking with Norton as a guest host for Gleason in 1957. Those are probably the six they're referring to.

5) scripts for three missing episodes. Are these shows never performed or are still missing?
My guess would be three of the five missing Audrey shows. We know the scripts for "The Turkey," "Missing Pants," "Easter Hats," "Alice's Birthday," and "Dorsey Brothers Show" are at UCLA, so that should narrow it down.

Another thing that stood out to me was this comment:
We look forward to the eventual Blu-ray release of the original Classic 39 filmed episodes
Is this something that's actually in the works or just wishful thinking?

Bill S.

09-27-2011, 11:37 PM

To narrow things down a bit more regarding the 48 short sketches and 59 longer shows:

35 short sketches were released prior to this set, including "What's the Name," and the "Manager of the Baseball Team" remake, which were released on VHS. In addition, 8 out of the 9 Pert Kelton shows are likely short sketches (excluding, of course, the original Christmas show). We also know that the "Bowling" skit, "The Turkey," the original "Six Months to Live," and "Sprained Thumb" all exist. That brings us to 47, with one short sketch to be revealed.

Also prior to this set, 44 longer shows were released, including the "Stand in For Murder" remake. Adding the 8 Europe shows bumps us up to 52. There are only 6 additional longer shows that have been documented as so, which are: the 1951 and 1952 Christmas shows, "Fortune Teller," the original "Love Letter" (which we also know exists), and the remakes of "Santa and the Bookies" and "Letter to the Boss." That only brings us to 58, and again, leaves one to be revealed. Here's hoping it's an expanded "Halloween Party for the Boss"!

TeeVeeCloset

09-29-2011, 09:28 AM

Bill S.

09-30-2011, 01:56 AM

Bill S. You are sincerely amazing...thank you for always sorting through and sharing such valuable information.
My pleasure!

ChrisTV

10-03-2011, 01:45 AM

Another review...

http://www.masslive.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2011/10/dvd_review_the_honeymooners_lo.html

"For die-hard fans, the big attraction is the 14 full-length shows and four sketches not seen since they were aired more than 50 years."

"(There are 15 DuMont and six CBS sketches still waiting to be found)."

ChrisTV

10-03-2011, 05:07 AM

And another review...

http://www.screenhead.com/reviews/the-honeymooners-the-complete-restored-series-dvd/

10/10

Bill S.

10-03-2011, 02:00 PM

"(There are 15 DuMont and six CBS sketches still waiting to be found)."
It's amazing how somebody can have the facts right in front of them and still get things wrong. The following paragraph is also inaccurate, though we can't be sure just yet that the information didn't come from the booklet:
But in 1985, “Honeymooners” star Jackie Gleason revealed he had archived kinescopes of “Honeymooners” sketches from “Calvacade of Stars” and “The Jackie Gleason Show.” Soon after, nearly 70 episodes originally broadcast live on the DuMont and CBS networks between 1951 and 1957 were aired on Showtime to critical acclaim.
And I guess we'll just have to wait until tomorrow to find out which exact episodes will be included, since not one of the three people that have reviewed the set thought it would be a good idea to let us know.

cperrone

10-03-2011, 07:19 PM

ChrisTV

10-03-2011, 07:24 PM

Would love to know!

Maybe list this as a seperate thread & say (don't look if you want to be surprised)?

Does the episode list in the booklet list the actual titles of all 24 Dumont Episodes?

Thanks!!

I was surprised when I arrived home this afternoon that my DVD set arrived. If you would like I can post the episodes that are in this set. I didn't want post them in case anyone didn't want surprised.

Clint

cperrone

10-03-2011, 07:36 PM

Would love to know!

Maybe list this as a seperate thread & say (don't look if you want to be surprised)?

Does the episode list in the booklet list the actual titles of all 24 Dumont Episodes?

Thanks!!

I'm working on the list now. The booklet is very nice and it does list all the Dumont Episodes but only 9 are included. The others are listed as "program lost"

Clint

snowpeck

10-03-2011, 10:55 PM

It's amazing how somebody can have the facts right in front of them and still get things wrong.

Where's the wrong information? There are 15 Dumont and 6 CBS episodes missing according to the booklet included with the set.

This coming from a fellow reviewer, you should at least entertain the idea that you might be the one with wrong information before calling someone else out on that.

Bill S.

10-04-2011, 03:45 AM

Where's the wrong information? There are 15 Dumont and 6 CBS episodes missing according to the booklet included with the set.

This coming from a fellow reviewer, you should at least entertain the idea that you might be the one with wrong information before calling someone else out on that.
I'll respond to this here, but it is also partially a response to the posts in the other thread, regarding a still lost "Sprained Thumb" from 1952. It appears that the booklet is wrong, based on that air date alone (10/4/52). While it says in the booklet that that particular program is lost, the entire episode of The Jackie Gleason Show that aired on that date is available for viewing at the Paley Center and does not contain a Honeymooners sketch (http://www.paleycenter.org/collection/item/?q=jackie+gleason+show&p=1&item=T:57097). As I said, in the post that you responded to, we couldn't, at the time, "be sure that the information didn't come from the booklet." Now we can.

So, no, I will not entertain the idea that I'm the one with the wrong information, but I do apologize for assuming that the reviewer was to blame. The other piece of inaccurate information was what the reviewer wrote about Gleason having episodes of Cavalcade of Stars and sketches from Cavalcade airing on Showtime "to critical acclaim." The source of the existing Cavalcade episodes was Snag Werris, who was a writer for Gleason, and it wasn't until after Gleason revealed that he had episodes of The Jackie Gleason Show that Mr. Werris' daughter, Wendy, invited the people at the Paley Center (then the Museum of Television & Radio) to look through her late father's collection. The seven sketches found in Snag Werris's collection aired on the Disney Channel, not Showtime, in the early 90s.

I hate to criticize because the set does look great, but there are several things that don't make sense to me after looking at the scans posted in the other thread. For example, the fact that the two additional Pert Kelton sketches seem to share the exact same plot as the two that were done on Ed Sullivan's Toast of the Town in 1952. Also, a 1952 version of "Halloween Party" is apparently included, but not the 1954 version that the people at MPI attempted to release on VHS at one point. Something doesn't seem right about that. I'll have to wait until my copy arrives before I'm able to figure out what exactly is on these discs.

ChrisTV

10-04-2011, 04:58 AM

cperrone

10-04-2011, 08:00 AM

I hate to criticize because the set does look great, but there are several things that don't make sense to me after looking at the scans posted in the other thread. For example, the fact that the two additional Pert Kelton sketches seem to share the exact same plot as the two that were done on Ed Sullivan's Toast of the Town in 1952. Also, a 1952 version of "Halloween Party" is apparently included, but not the 1954 version that the people at MPI attempted to release on VHS at one point. Something doesn't seem right about that. I'll have to wait until my copy arrives before I'm able to figure out what exactly is on these discs.

I agree Bill that the set is indeed a good one, but I too found some things in the booklet that seem to be incorrect. Aside from the episode list, the booklet contains about 10 or so additional pages on the history of the Honeymooners. One sections states that this set contains 48 sketches and 59 "full length episodes" which I had assumed meant the entire Jackie Gleason Show, but I have yet to find even one. Granted I didn't watch every single show, but I was a bit disappointed when everything I had been reading lead me to believe that there would be "some" entire shows on the DVD.

I really just picked episodes that I had never seen in the past like "The Turkey" in which the quality is rather poor with a lot of big scratches along the left side, but it's still decent since I had never seen it before.. Also watched "Fortune Teller" which in my opinion the quality was really good aside from some "blurring" from time to time. Had never seen this episode before and....yes...the Norton's bedroom does make an appearance...;)

Clint

ChrisTV

10-04-2011, 11:53 AM

So what determines a "full length episode"?
Is it a running time of greater then 30:00?
Is a sketch 29:59 or less?
These aren't known as "The Lost Sketches".

Albert71292

10-04-2011, 11:58 AM

I was surprised when I arrived home this afternoon that my DVD set arrived. If you would like I can post the episodes that are in this set. I didn't want post them in case anyone didn't want surprised.

Clint

Mine is listed on the UPS tracking thingy as "Out For Delivery", so hopefully it'll get here by days end.

ChrisTV

10-04-2011, 12:03 PM

Mine just arrived.
Watching in order.
Now on "The New Television Set".
Already have noticed that some of the Disney Channel versions seemed cleaner versions. HMMMMMM.....

BewitchedFan

10-04-2011, 06:57 PM

How's the packaging of this set?

Albert71292

10-04-2011, 10:17 PM

How's the packaging of this set?

Kinda like a "plastic book", if you've ever seen that packaging. The "Three's Company" sets were packaged the same. Cheap packaging if you ask me, considering the list price... just glad I got it about $40 less than list from Amazon!

Bill S.

10-04-2011, 11:06 PM

Great point about "Sprained Thumb" Bill. Something tells me that when the "Best of Gleason" was released in '88 - '89 that episode came to be known & the air date of 10/4/52 was published somewhere. Since then, with the internet coming into play & the release of "To The Moon! The Honeymooners Book of Trivia" & additional publications, the date was changed to 9/19/53. I believe it was numerous members here that noticed that this episode had to be 9/19/53 due to the Kramden's set changes & noticeable differences in the film quality from '52 to'53.
I've also seen an air date of 11/15/52 attached to "Sprained Thumb," mainly by collectors, but the version from the "Best of Gleason" special is definitely from 1953. Personally, I don't think there was an earlier version, otherwise the script would probably be in Harry Crane's collection.

About 95% of these episodes (excluding those with curtain calls), the time lengths have increased by 9-35 seconds. Making me wonder if the speeds of these episodes have changed. Curtain call episodes increased by 45-90 seconds.
Well, there are new title cards on this set, and from what I've seen so far, none of the shows start with the famous opening or have credits at the end, so that might explain the time differences.

& the 1 that gets me..."Good Buy, Aunt Ethel" a misprint or a clever play on words?
I believe that's the way it was labeled on VHS as well. I always assumed it was a misprint, because it doesn't really make sense as a play on words...I don't recall Aunt Ethel actually "buying" anything in the episode...

One sections states that this set contains 48 sketches and 59 "full length episodes" which I had assumed meant the entire Jackie Gleason Show, but I have yet to find even one.
I'm pretty sure by "full length episodes" they meant shows that run longer than 30 minutes. Somewhat misleading, and disappointing, but it makes sense when you think about it.

Also watched "Fortune Teller" which in my opinion the quality was really good aside from some "blurring" from time to time. Had never seen this episode before and....yes...the Norton's bedroom does make an appearance...
"Fortune Teller" is in surprisingly good shape, especially after watching "The Turkey." Definitely the best "new" episode I've watched so far. The Norton's bedroom set is visibly different, as expected, from the ones used in "The Sleepwalker" and "Sees All, Knows All." Interestingly, when Norton leaves the room at the end of the scene, he exits through what would be the bathroom door in "The Sleepwalker." That room sure did move around over the years.

I haven't had a chance to go through everything yet (obviously), but here are a few things that I've noticed:

Sketch #5 on disc 1 appears to be different from the other dance sketch done on Toast of the Town in 1952, but the "Ring Salesman" remake (#9) appears to be the exact same version done on Toast of the Town. The proof of this is Alice mistakenly referring to the ring salesman as "Ralph." So it looks like we only actually have ONE additional sketch from Cavalcade of Stars.
The first version of "Halloween Party" (#14) does match up to the year, seeing as how the set looks the same as it does in the other sketches from the beginning of that season. It's strange that this early version exists, and in such good quality, yet "Halloween Party for the Boss," from 1954 is, according to the booklet, still lost.
A few seconds of video is still apparently missing from the 1952 version of "Christmas Party." A record containing the audio of that entire episode of The Jackie Gleason Show was released, if I remember correctly, in the 1960s, and was more than likely the source of the audio used to fill in that gap at the beginning of the episode. Still images are also shown while the audio is playing.

Captain_Video

10-04-2011, 11:06 PM

How's the packaging of this set?

I just got my copy and took a pic :)

http://i51.tinypic.com/v433w7.jpg

I wish the boxset would have come like the 39 classic episodes, slim cases. Oh well.

ChrisTV

10-04-2011, 11:15 PM

As for the Cavalcade episodes....
Just watched a side by side comparison with the Disney channel versions & have come to 1 conclusion....
The folks at MPI did not have access to these masters.

The Disney channel versions are FAR SUPERIOR in quality!

The remastered set episodes are darker, jumpier picture, more static/noise, many more specs & artifacts and the audio sounds like in a tin can.

The audio in the 1st "The Ring Salesman" 12/7/51 is just downright terrible.
Sounds like there is another program running at the same time. You hear additional voices & noise. The Disney version has no sign of this.

The lines on "Quiz Show" 12/14/51 on the Disney version looks like they were erased compared to the new set.

My goodness was there no research to find the masters of the Disney versions?

What the heck?

Other notes:

In "Alice And Ralph Get Dressed For A Date Last Night" 11/30/51. Ralph calls Trixie, Millie.

In "The Ring Salesman" 12/7/51: the opening scene starts with Alice & Trixie.
Both future remakes rid this scene.

The end of "Quiz Show" looks like the end could be missing. An odd abrupt ending.

Thoughts?

ChrisTV

10-04-2011, 11:44 PM

OK... Just watched the Ed Sullivan "The Ring Salesman" 3/30/52 with the Ed Sullivan intro side by side and this IS the 2nd "The Ring Salesman" episode on the new set listed as Spring 1952.

Makes complete sense that they wouldn't redo the same episode in the same season.

So did they have permission to use this episode?
Does MPI know that this is the Ed Sullivan episode?

Also, just watched the "Alice And Ralph Get Dressed For A Date Last Night" side by side with the Ed Sullivan episode & they are the same exact script.

BewitchedFan

10-05-2011, 09:05 AM

Captain_Video, thank you for posting that picture. The packaging isn't too bad. I was actually afraid that it was going to be 15 DVDs slipped into cardboard pockets or something like that. At least the DVDs look protected here and that's all that matters.

BTW, I have almost all the DVDs from MPI's earlier release of these episodes. Takes up a lot of shelf space, I admit. So, I would say that I already own 85% of the content of this set. Do you guys think it's still worth buying this new set for $80 just to get the additional 15% of content that I don't own? I've been pondering on this because $80 is an awful lot of money. If I didn't own any of these, I'd jump up and get this set, but since I own most of these already, I just don't know if I should spend the $80 on this. What do you guys think?

ChrisTV

10-05-2011, 02:54 PM

Can someone else check this out...

Go to Scripts on Disc 15 & click "The Missing Pair of Pants"
Odd... mine is showing "Alice's Birthday".

If you click "Alice's Birthday", it's "Alice's Birthday".

Is yours missing "The Missing Pair of Pants"?

Captain_Video

10-05-2011, 03:06 PM

Bill S.

10-05-2011, 04:21 PM

BTW, I have almost all the DVDs from MPI's earlier release of these episodes. Takes up a lot of shelf space, I admit. So, I would say that I already own 85% of the content of this set. Do you guys think it's still worth buying this new set for $80 just to get the additional 15% of content that I don't own? I've been pondering on this because $80 is an awful lot of money. If I didn't own any of these, I'd jump up and get this set, but since I own most of these already, I just don't know if I should spend the $80 on this. What do you guys think?
Well, for most people, the highlight of this new set will be the Pert Kelton sketches and the original Trip to Europe episodes. As big a fan as I am, I don't think those shows are nearly as good as most of the previously released shows, but there are some other gems scattered around that are a must-have for me. "Fortune Teller" is worth the price of the set alone, in my opinion. "Dorsey Brothers Show" is another interesting one, though the last ten minutes or so is just music. "One Big Happy Family" has also been greatly improved, with no noticeable damage at all...either another copy was found or it went through a very extensive restoration. It all depends on how big a fan you are...you could probably sell the previously released sets on eBay or Amazon and get the money for the new set.

Same on mine.
Mine too, and the scripts are very difficult to read...I don't know if it's my TV or what. Anyone else have trouble with the menus loading properly on discs 1 & 2? The little orange dot used to select episodes doesn't pop up until after the music has played all the way through one time. Also, when I put disc 3 in, it completely skips over the menu and goes right into "The Prowler."

Captain_Video

10-05-2011, 04:25 PM

Mine too, and the scripts are very difficult to read...I don't know if it's my TV or what. Anyone else have trouble with the menus loading properly on discs 1 & 2? The little orange dot used to select episodes doesn't pop up until after the music has played all the way through one time. Also, when I put disc 3 in, it completely skips over the menu and goes right into "The Prowler."

Yes I can't read the scripts either to blurry and too small.

I noticed that yesterday too why I couldn't access the menu, then after the music finished the dot appeared. So that is happening on my discs as well.

For disc 3 I get the same thing. It fixes when I hit menu button on the remote it shows the menu and the episodes.

BewitchedFan

10-05-2011, 04:31 PM

you could probably sell the previously released sets on eBay or Amazon and get the money for the new set.

I could do that but there are two problems...

1- I don't think these will be worth that much. I think I'd be lucky if I can get $20 if I sell all of them together.

2- The old releases contain some bonus features not found on the new set, such as My Man Norton, Gleason's Honeybloopers, Valentine Special, etc... So I'm not sure if I would want to see the volumes that contain those extras.

Nevertheless, I will try and sell them anyway because I'm desperate to buy this new set and I refuse to buy it if I still own the old release. If I get only $20 for it, I guess it's better than nothing. But something tells me that it probably won't sell no matter what I price it. Worth a shot though. I'll put it up tonight.

ChrisTV

10-05-2011, 04:50 PM

Yes. Discs 1&2 the music must finish before being able to select an episode.
Disc 3 my menu doesn't appear at all, goes right to The Prowler.
I can just about read the scripts. Easter is just about impossible.
Hopefully we'll have a disc exchange for at least disc 3 & I would love for them to release the scripts online. I can't believe they didn't test all of this before going to press. EYE YI YI!!!

The Great One

10-05-2011, 05:03 PM

I didn't buy the 60th Anniversary Edition yet but after reading some of the comments posted I'm disappointed to hear there are problems with some of the episodes and DVDs. It hard to believe that MPI would release this set without first checking that all the contents were the best they can be.

Bill S.

10-05-2011, 06:02 PM

Nevertheless, I will try and sell them anyway because I'm desperate to buy this new set and I refuse to buy it if I still own the old release. If I get only $20 for it, I guess it's better than nothing. But something tells me that it probably won't sell no matter what I price it. Worth a shot though. I'll put it up tonight.
Listing them individually might get you a little more. They're out of print and the separate volumes appeal to more casual fans, unlike the new set which is aimed more at die-hard fans and collectors.

I didn't buy the 60th Anniversary Edition yet but after reading some of the comments posted I'm disappointed to hear there are problems with some of the episodes and DVDs. It hard to believe that MPI would release this set without first checking that all the contents were the best they can be.
It is disappointing, but aside from the issue with the scripts, the problems are minor.

Albert71292

10-06-2011, 10:00 AM

catsafterme

10-06-2011, 10:39 AM

Are the "American Scene Magazine" episodes included in this set?

Bill S.

10-06-2011, 03:59 PM

Are the "American Scene Magazine" episodes included in this set?
Unfortunately, no. Only material from 1951-1957 is included, with the exception of a few bonus items.

A few other observations I've made:
Audrey WAS referring to "Dorsey Brothers Show" in "New Year's Eve Party," when she said something to Trixie about Ralph bringing the brothers back together.
Gleason is noticeably limping in "Fortune Teller," which aired a week after "Lawsuit." He even says something about it to Norton during the bedroom scene. I didn't realize, until seeing the shows in chronological order, that that was the reason Gleason was walking funny in "Stand in For Murder."
Alice can be heard singing "My Love Song to You" at the beginning of the "Santa and the Bookies" remake. Ralph & Norton "wrote" the song in "Songwriters," which aired the week before.
The audio seems to cut out at one point while Ralph is talking to Smith and Smith in the "Santa and the Bookies" remake.
An interesting "blooper" occurs during the "Letter to the Boss" remake, when Ralph & Norton are trying to get the letter out of the mailbox. Gleason accidentally falls into the painted curtain behind him and ad-libs something like, "everything started swimming," after which the audience applauds.

Though the remakes are interesting to see, I think the original performances were much better. Something tells me that may have had something to do with them being held back for so long.

Bill S.

10-06-2011, 09:25 PM

More inaccurate information found in the booklet:
In the Lost Episode "What's Her Name" from May 15, 1954 Ralph and Alice sing the song "One of These Days...Pow!" (the original version of the sketch - "What's the Name" from March 21, 1953 - does not include the song).

ChrisTV

10-07-2011, 02:01 AM

NPR Print & Radio review...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2011/10/04/141045118/dvd-picks-the-honeymooners

Bill S.

10-08-2011, 03:38 PM

The Great One

10-10-2011, 05:26 PM

NPR Print & Radio review...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2011/10/04/141045118/dvd-picks-the-honeymooners

Thanks for posting the link!

JohnXXVII

10-11-2011, 08:22 AM

Benno123

10-11-2011, 02:20 PM

I've watch all the CBS episodes on the first disc. It seems with episodes like Lost Baby, Quiz Show, The Cold, the image is cropped so as not to show whatever damage there is on the left side of the screen. It gets a little annoying when a character is on the left side of the screen, everyone's looking at them, and they're cut off.

Yet despite that, the early CBS sketches definitely look much, much better visually; there is quite an improvement.

I was surprised to see that the 1957 version of Six Months to Live is lost. Wasn't a snippet from it shown on a CBS Honeymooners special in 2002 or 03?

I had just watched this special a couple of weeks ago (why, I don't know - just felt like it! I guess anticipation for the DVD!) and no, the edited clips from the 1952 version, "A Matter of Life and Death," and the 1969 remake. No clips from the 1957 version - I paid special attention to the dates to see if all the versions were represented for hopes that maybe the 1957 version would be included as well.

gallerynight

10-12-2011, 02:23 PM

Even through all the errors, I still manage to find some pleasant surprises in this set. As some may remember, the previously released and syndicated versions of "Peacemaker" begin rather abruptly. The version found here has the full opening that was inexplicably cut from previously released versions. Between this, an undamaged version of "One Big Happy Family," and the countless other rarities contained in this set, I'd say the positives definitely outweigh the negatives.

I'm surprised that the long damaged line down the middle of the screen of "One Big Happy Family" has been repaired. I'm thinking, maybe they found another lost print of that episode? Guess another lost print was found of "peacemaker" since it now has the edited begining back in. I remember reading only Jackie Gleason had these "lost Episode" prints and that was the only prints which survived, how can any other prints surface now after all these years?
Maybe someone can post a better complete list of all the (exclusive episodes/added footage and video improvements this new Honeymooners set has!
Here are the ones I know of..
"One Big Happy Family"- Undamaged Print
"Peacemaker"- Begining of episode now included
"The Fortune Teller"- Exclusive Episode Included
"The Turkey"- Exclusive episode Included
"Trip to Europe"- All 8 1957 episodes included
"Sprained Thumb"- Exclusive Episode Included
"Six Months to Live"- Exclusive Episode Included
Pert kelton episodes including alternate Exclusive version sketch not seen on the Disney Channel.

Bill S.

10-12-2011, 04:59 PM

I'm surprised that the long damaged line down the middle of the screen of "One Big Happy Family" has been repaired. I'm thinking, maybe they found another lost print of that episode? Guess another lost print was found of "peacemaker" since it now has the edited begining back in.I think they found another copy of "One Big Happy Family," because had they cropped the picture like they did with "Lost Baby" and "Quiz Show," we would have the same problem with people's faces being cut off, and that doesn't appear to be the case. I'm not sure what the story was with "Peacemaker," but I'd heard in the past that something was missing from the beginning.

I remember reading only Jackie Gleason had these "lost Episode" prints and that was the only prints which survived, how can any other prints surface now after all these years?
Well, I know Jackie made an arrangement with the people at CBS to get a copy of each show, but, from my understanding, the reason kinescopes were made in the first place was so that the programs could be rebroadcast hours later in the Midwest and on the West Coast. That makes it seem that, if Gleason didn't have something, or his copy was damaged, there could still be one or more copies out there somewhere (I'm not sure whether they sent the same copy or separate copies to the Midwest and West Coast.) It says on Wikipedia that kinescopes were returned to Gleason after being rebroadcast, but then, as you asked, how have random shows turned up from various other sources over the years? Conflicting stories as usual.

Maybe someone can post a better complete list of all the (exclusive episodes/added footage and video improvements this new Honeymooners set has!
Here are the ones I know of..
"One Big Happy Family"- Undamaged Print
"Peacemaker"- Begining of episode now included
"The Fortune Teller"- Exclusive Episode Included
"The Turkey"- Exclusive episode Included
"Trip to Europe"- All 8 1957 episodes included
"Sprained Thumb"- Exclusive Episode Included
"Six Months to Live"- Exclusive Episode Included
Pert kelton episodes including alternate Exclusive version sketch not seen on the Disney Channel.
Skipping the bonus material, here is a list of all the episodes released on DVD for the first time (including the shows with additional footage):
9 Pert Kelton sketches, including an additional sketch from Cavalcade of Stars not shown on the Disney Channel and one sketch from Ed Sullivan's Toast of the Town.
"The New Bowling Ball" (9/20/52) First sketch with Audrey Meadows, includes announcer's introduction.
"The Turkey" (9/27/52)
"Halloween Party" (10/25/52) Previously known as "Question Mark" and "Masquerade." Somehow this early version was found and not the 1954 version.
"Six Months to Live" (12/13/52)
"Christmas Party" (12/20/52) w/ audio and still images used for the first few seconds.
"Dorsey Brothers Show" (5/23/53)
"Sprained Thumb" (9/19/53)
"Fortune Teller" (4/3/54)
"Stand In for Murder" (4/17/54) The way it was seen by original TV viewers, playing right to the point where it cuts to the CBS logo, followed by Gleason's recap segment from the next week's show.
"What's the Name?" (5/15/54) Previously only released on VHS.
"Love Letter" (10/16/54) w/ curtain call.
"Santa and the Bookies" (12/18/54)
"Peacemaker" (3/5/55) w/ full opening missing from previous releases.
"One Big Happy Family" (4/9/55) w/ no visible damage.
"Letter to the Boss" (5/21/55)
The 8 original "Trip to Europe" shows from 1957. I haven't watched all of them yet, but it appears the full broadcasts, with the exception of commercials, have been included.
"Manager of the Baseball Team" (6/1/57) Last sketch from the 50s, previously only released on VHS.

"Kramden vs. Norton," "Songs and Witty Sayings," the "Stand In for Murder" remake, and "Catch a Star" all include curtain calls, but I'm not sure at the moment whether or not they were on previous releases, as I do remember seeing a couple curtain calls on VHS.

gallerynight

10-13-2011, 04:15 AM

I think they found another copy of "One Big Happy Family," because had they cropped the picture like they did with "Lost Baby" and "Quiz Show," we would have the same problem with people's faces being cut off, and that doesn't appear to be the case. I'm not sure what the story was with "Peacemaker," but I'd heard in the past that something was missing from the beginning.

Well, I know Jackie made an arrangement with the people at CBS to get a copy of each show, but, from my understanding, the reason kinescopes were made in the first place was so that the programs could be rebroadcast hours later in the Midwest and on the West Coast. That makes it seem that, if Gleason didn't have something, or his copy was damaged, there could still be one or more copies out there somewhere (I'm not sure whether they sent the same copy or separate copies to the Midwest and West Coast.) It says on Wikipedia that kinescopes were returned to Gleason after being rebroadcast, but then, as you asked, how have random shows turned up from various other sources over the years? Conflicting stories as usual.

Skipping the bonus material, here is a list of all the episodes released on DVD for the first time (including the shows with additional footage):
9 Pert Kelton sketches, including an additional sketch from Cavalcade of Stars not shown on the Disney Channel and one sketch from Ed Sullivan's Toast of the Town.
"The New Bowling Ball" (9/20/52) First sketch with Audrey Meadows, includes announcer's introduction.
"The Turkey" (9/27/52)
"Halloween Party" (10/25/52) Previously known as "Question Mark" and "Masquerade." Somehow this early version was found and not the 1954 version.
"Six Months to Live" (12/13/52)
"Christmas Party" (12/20/52) w/ audio and still images used for the first few seconds.
"Dorsey Brothers Show" (5/23/53)
"Sprained Thumb" (9/19/53)
"Fortune Teller" (4/3/54)
"Stand In for Murder" (4/17/54) The way it was seen by original TV viewers, playing right to the point where it cuts to the CBS logo, followed by Gleason's recap segment from the next week's show.
"What's the Name?" (5/15/54) Previously only released on VHS.
"Love Letter" (10/16/54) w/ curtain call.
"Santa and the Bookies" (12/18/54)
"Peacemaker" (3/5/55) w/ full opening missing from previous releases.
"One Big Happy Family" (4/9/55) w/ no visible damage.
"Letter to the Boss" (5/21/55)
The 8 original "Trip to Europe" shows from 1957. I haven't watched all of them yet, but it appears the full broadcasts, with the exception of commercials, have been included.
"Manager of the Baseball Team" (6/1/57) Last sketch from the 50s, previously only released on VHS.

"Kramden vs. Norton," "Songs and Witty Sayings," the "Stand In for Murder" remake, and "Catch a Star" all include curtain calls, but I'm not sure at the moment whether or not they were on previous releases, as I do remember seeing a couple curtain calls on VHS.

Thanks for all the work on listing the info!
Had to be a newly found copy of "One Big Happy Family" alright, because the damage seemed unfixable on the old print and let's face it, how could they crop the photo to rid that big line damage, since it went close to the center of the picture. Unlike some other line damaged episodes that was off to the side.
Any idea of knowing how many and what sketches/episodes are STILL MISSING that Honeymooner fans still don't have? Not talking about all the sketches that haven't been released like American Scene sketches, I'm talking about sketches even collectors can't find still!
Some episodes listed below I'm not sure has ever been listed in the previous books on The Honeymooners. These are new listings to me!

Supermarket Shopping/Alice's Anniversary 10/19/51
Alice's Sister Argues with her Husband 1/4/52
Alice Finds a Dog 2/1/52
Vacation Plans/Vacation at Fred's Landing 5/30/52
The Driving Lesson (No date)

Can there really be a 3rd "Vacation at Fred's Landing"? Not sure I really care about another version of that but some of those other ones sound interesting.

Pert Kelton sketches, including an additional sketch from Cavalcade of Stars not shown on the Disney Channel

BTW.. What was that Pert Kelton additional sketch not shown on the Disney channel, does that bring the total of Kelton sketches up to 10? Is it true that the addition sketch is just an alternate version of another kelton sketch that was already released?

Thanks again for the help!

TeeVeeCloset

10-13-2011, 10:10 AM

As for "new" missing episodes turning up as discussed in above threads, it says in the documentary about "The lost episodes" on the last disc, that Gleason used to literally cut out a honeymooners sketch from the kinescope if an actor or friend wanted it. Then in the last sentence of the booklet it jokes for the "average" person to check if they have "film cans" in their attic, meaning they have literally turned up in many odd places besides "The Gleason Vaults".

Bill S.

10-13-2011, 03:36 PM

Any idea of knowing how many and what sketches/episodes are STILL MISSING that Honeymooner fans still don't have? Not talking about all the sketches that haven't been released like American Scene sketches, I'm talking about sketches even collectors can't find still!
Some episodes listed below I'm not sure has ever been listed in the previous books on The Honeymooners. These are new listings to me!
It says in the booklet: "it isn't exactly clear how many Honeymooners sketches featuring Pert Kelton as Alice Kramden were broadcast on the Cavalcade of Stars." The titles in the back of the book seem to have come from the scripts in Harry Crane's collection at UCLA, though, interestingly, a script labeled "Thanksgiving Dinner" has been left off the list. After listing all the titles with air dates attached to them, it says "The following additional lost undated sketches are known to have been performed on the Cavalcade of Stars during the 1951-52 season," after which seven titles are listed. I don't know how they came to the conclusion that those particular sketches were "known to have been performed," but just after those listings, it says that there was an earlier version of "Sprained Thumb" from October 4, 1952, which I've already proven false. As far as Audrey Meadows sketches go, there are FIVE known sketches still missing:
"Missing Pants" (12/6/52)
"Easter Hats" (4/4/53)
"Alice's Birthday" (5/16/53)
"Halloween Party for the Boss" (10/30/54)
"Six Months to Live" (5/11/57)

BTW.. What was that Pert Kelton additional sketch not shown on the Disney channel, does that bring the total of Kelton sketches up to 10? Is it true that the addition sketch is just an alternate version of another kelton sketch that was already released?
The sketch labeled "Alice and Ralph Get Dressed for a Date Last Night" is the one that wasn't shown on the Disney Channel. I compared it with the dance sketch from Toast of the Town, and while it is the exact same storyline, it appears to be a different performance. The "Ring Salesman" remake is the exact same performance from Toast of the Town, so that would give us a total of 10 Pert Kelton sketches in all, with one missing from the set.

As for "new" missing episodes turning up as discussed in above threads, it says in the documentary about "The lost episodes" on the last disc, that Gleason used to literally cut out a honeymooners sketch from the kinescope if an actor or friend wanted it. Then in the last sentence of the booklet it jokes for the "average" person to check if they have "film cans" in their attic, meaning they have literally turned up in many odd places besides "The Gleason Vaults".
It has also been documented that certain kinescopes taken from Gleason's vault had "deteriorated too badly to be salvaged." It was never mentioned which sketches were on those damaged reels, but it would be pretty easy to narrow it down at this point. I know the episode containing "The Turkey" was either damaged or edited by Gleason, as the Paley Center's copy of that broadcast is missing the entire sketch, along with a couple of performances. As some may know, another copy of that broadcast, with "The Turkey" intact, was sold on eBay a couple years back. So, you see, two copies of that show exist for one reason or another. Let's hope that's the case with the remaining shows that haven't been found.

gallerynight

10-14-2011, 02:57 AM

It says in the booklet: "it isn't exactly clear how many Honeymooners sketches featuring Pert Kelton as Alice Kramden were broadcast on the Cavalcade of Stars." The titles in the back of the book seem to have come from the scripts in Harry Crane's collection at UCLA, though, interestingly, a script labeled "Thanksgiving Dinner" has been left off the list. After listing all the titles with air dates attached to them, it says "The following additional lost undated sketches are known to have been performed on the Cavalcade of Stars during the 1951-52 season," after which seven titles are listed. I don't know how they came to the conclusion that those particular sketches were "known to have been performed," but just after those listings, it says that there was an earlier version of "Sprained Thumb" from October 4, 1952, which I've already proven false. As far as Audrey Meadows sketches go, there are FIVE known sketches still missing:
"Missing Pants" (12/6/52)
"Easter Hats" (4/4/53)
"Alice's Birthday" (5/16/53)
"Halloween Party for the Boss" (10/30/54)
"Six Months to Live" (5/11/57)

The sketch labeled "Alice and Ralph Get Dressed for a Date Last Night" is the one that wasn't shown on the Disney Channel. I compared it with the dance sketch from Toast of the Town, and while it is the exact same storyline, it appears to be a different performance. The "Ring Salesman" remake is the exact same performance from Toast of the Town, so that would give us a total of 10 Pert Kelton sketches in all, with one missing from the set.

It has also been documented that certain kinescopes taken from Gleason's vault had "deteriorated too badly to be salvaged." It was never mentioned which sketches were on those damaged reels, but it would be pretty easy to narrow it down at this point. I know the episode containing "The Turkey" was either damaged or edited by Gleason, as the Paley Center's copy of that broadcast is missing the entire sketch, along with a couple of performances. As some may know, another copy of that broadcast, with "The Turkey" intact, was sold on eBay a couple years back. So, you see, two copies of that show exist for one reason or another. Let's hope that's the case with the remaining shows that haven't been found.

As always thanks again for taking the time to answer these questions!
Since you are so good at this, here's a couple more.. :)
Have you herd anything about an upcoming blu-ray release of the Classic 39? I've herd it mentioned I think on the blu-ray forum, if so, any ideas for extras we could get?
Did you see what has just happened over at Amazon with this new restored set? Amazon has just pulled the set because of complaints! I'll paste the Amazon notice below-

The Honeymooners : Lost Episodes 1951-1957 (The Complete Restored Series)

Item Under Review

While this item is available from other marketplace sellers on this page, it is not currently offered by Amazon.com because customers have told us there may be something wrong with our inventory of the item, the way we are shipping it, or the way it's described here. (Thanks for the tip!)

We're working to fix the problem as quickly as possible.

Any idea what changes this set will have done to it and what does this mean to people who already bought it?

ChrisTV

10-14-2011, 04:16 AM

Bill-
Regarding the Crane collection.
Quite Possibly "Thanksgiving Dinner" could be "Two Family Car"?
I doubt it's "The Turkey", since thats already listed.

The date for Thanksgiving in 1951 was 11/22.
Cavalcade would have been on the next night (Friday) 11/23.
I would think they would not do a Thanksgiving sketch the day after.
11/23/51 happens to be the day Gleason signed with CBS.

& it's interesting that the set has been removed from Amazon.

[It says in the booklet: "it isn't exactly clear how many Honeymooners sketches featuring Pert Kelton as Alice Kramden were broadcast on the Cavalcade of Stars." The titles in the back of the book seem to have come from the scripts in Harry Crane's collection at UCLA, though, interestingly, a script labeled "Thanksgiving Dinner" has been left off the list. After listing all the titles with air dates attached to them, it says "The following additional lost undated sketches are known to have been performed on the Cavalcade of Stars during the 1951-52 season," after which seven titles are listed. I don't know how they came to the conclusion that those particular sketches were "known to have been performed," but just after those listings, it says that there was an earlier version of "Sprained Thumb" from October 4, 1952, which I've already proven false. As far as Audrey Meadows sketches go, there are FIVE known sketches still missing:
"Missing Pants" (12/6/52)
"Easter Hats" (4/4/53)
"Alice's Birthday" (5/16/53)
"Halloween Party for the Boss" (10/30/54)
"Six Months to Live" (5/11/57)]

Bill S.

10-14-2011, 02:22 PM

As always thanks again for taking the time to answer these questions! Since you are so good at this, here's a couple more.. :)
Have you herd anything about an upcoming blu-ray release of the Classic 39? I've herd it mentioned I think on the blu-ray forum, if so, any ideas for extras we could get?
No problem. I haven't heard anything official about an upcoming Blu-ray release, but if you could post a link to the forum you're referring to, I'd love to know more. So far The Twilight Zone is the only old black & white series I recall being released on Blu-ray, so the idea of the people at CBS/Paramount focusing on the Classic 39 at this point in time seems a bit strange. Then again, there are only 39 episodes...it might be a good way of testing the waters, so to speak. Regarding extras, I can't really think of all that much.

There was that one original opening with the bus that didn't make the DVD set, but that was included in the featurette on the new Lost Episodes set. I think any additional footage or deleted scenes would be most interesting...they found deleted scenes from I Love Lucy in the CBS vaults, so there's no telling what kind of Honeymooners rarities might be in there. Having "The Babysitter" restored with the original audio, if it exists, would be a nice bonus too.

Did you see what has just happened over at Amazon with this new restored set? Amazon has just pulled the set because of complaints! I'll paste the Amazon notice below-

Any idea what changes this set will have done to it and what does this mean to people who already bought it?
If it was pulled due to complaints, I'd assume it has something to do with the menus not loading properly on certain discs. I'm not sure what you mean by changes being made, but if that's the case, hopefully they correct the issue with the scripts as well, and make them easier to read.

Regarding the Crane collection.
Quite Possibly "Thanksgiving Dinner" could be "Two Family Car"?
I doubt it's "The Turkey", since thats already listed.

The date for Thanksgiving in 1951 was 11/22.
Cavalcade would have been on the next night (Friday) 11/23.
I would think they would not do a Thanksgiving sketch the day after.
11/23/51 happens to be the day Gleason signed with CBS.
All good points. Though Harry Crane only wrote for Gleason through the 1952-1953 season, and "Two Family Car" wasn't done until 1956, Crane was apparently the writer for the "Expectant Father(s)" sketch that was done during that last season, so I guess it could be possible. I wish the scripts were easier to read on the DVD so we could see if there were any notes included about the sketches airing or not.

Benno123

10-14-2011, 04:08 PM

I'm wondering if this explanation of a "hot kinescope" offers clues to how additional films/prints of "lost" shows and even cleaner versions of previously released shows are turning up.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinescope#.22Hot_kinescope.22

"Hot kinescope"

After the network of coaxial cable and microwave relays carrying programs to the West Coast was completed in September 1951,[12] CBS and NBC in 1952 instituted a "hot kinescope" process in which shows being performed in New York were transmitted west, filmed on two kinescope machines in 35 mm negative and 16 mm reversal film (the latter for backup protection) in Los Angeles, rushed to film processing, and then transmitted from Los Angeles three hours later for broadcast in the Pacific Time Zone.[13][14]

In September 1956, NBC began making color "hot kines" of some of its color programs using a lenticular film process which, unlike color negative film, could be processed rapidly using standard black-and-white methods.[15][16]

My guess would be by using the coaxial cable across the country a show may be kinescoped in major cities according to the time zone. (i.e. New York for Eastern, Chicago for Central zone, Denver for Mountain zone, Los Angeles for Pacific zone) Then, using this "hot process" the films would be ready for broadcast in minutes and then could be shown in their scheduled time slot on the network. Since some channels may have been outside of nowhere and not directly affiliated with a network (for example, WSPD-13 in Toledo, Ohio when it first signed on into the mid-50's would broadcast shows from CBS, NBC, ABC and DuMont) then who knows how many kinescopes were created and sent to these "small markets" for delayed broadcast.

The entire article on kinescopes states that CBS and NBC in 1951 were shipping over 1,000 16mm kinescopes to affiliate stations across the country each week, and by 1955 CBS itself was up to 2,500 kinescopes per week. While this is Wikipedia and anyone can make up numbers, that seems kind of high but television was also booming and many regions were still getting their first station at that time so it is possible. The number may also include 16mm film prints of filmed series (like Lucy, December Bride, Our Miss Brooks, etc.) which is where I believe most of the complete as-broadcast with commercials prints of many shows like Lucy that are on the collectors market comes from today. I'm sure most stations would get the films, air them at the times they had scheduled (or required by the network if that mattered, for a big hit series I can see the brass at CBS saying "You air Gleason at 8 on Saturdays or else!") and then burning the film, throwing it away, giving it to a station worker, etc. The film served it purpose, now get rid of it. (Stations would air shows off the network scheduled time. In my boxes I have a story from an old We Love Lucy fan club newsletter talking about how someone found a newspaper ad and then station records proving that a station in North Dakota or somewhere in the middle of nowhere aired the premiere episode of I Love Lucy on Saturday, October 13, 1951, two days before the premiere date. So anything is possible!)

As for the comment from the booklet about never knowing what might be in your house, that comment is so true. A lot of movies thought to be lost forever turn up in boxes in barns, attics, you-name-it odd places. Pepito the Spanish Clown's wife had film under her bed which was a 16mm print of the I Love Lucy pilot which was, I believe, the only known print that still existed at the time. (I saw a quote of the widow who said she didn't know it was the pilot that she was showing at family reunions for all those years!)

Benno123

10-14-2011, 04:14 PM

Also, in another thread I posted a link to an online article about the Jackie Gleason/Julie Andrews TV special from 1974. There is a link to click on that you can watch the entire special online.

Note at the beginning is a very short clip, maybe 3 or 5 seconds if that long, of Gleason and Carney from what looks like "The New Bowling Ball" sketch! Just interesting that a "lost" show was making a quick appearance on TV in 1974!

Captain_Video

10-14-2011, 06:17 PM

I wonder if people have contacted via email MPI and asked them about discs 1-3 not loading properly.

The Great One

10-15-2011, 05:28 PM

I'm wondering if this explanation of a "hot kinescope" offers clues to how additional films/prints of "lost" shows and even cleaner versions of previously released shows are turning up.

My guess would be by using the coaxial cable across the country a show may be kinescoped in major cities according to the time zone. (i.e. New York for Eastern, Chicago for Central zone, Denver for Mountain zone, Los Angeles for Pacific zone) Then, using this "hot process" the films would be ready for broadcast in minutes and then could be shown in their scheduled time slot on the network. Since some channels may have been outside of nowhere and not directly affiliated with a network (for example, WSPD-13 in Toledo, Ohio when it first signed on into the mid-50's would broadcast shows from CBS, NBC, ABC and DuMont) then who knows how many kinescopes were created and sent to these "small markets" for delayed broadcast.

The entire article on kinescopes states that CBS and NBC in 1951 were shipping over 1,000 16mm kinescopes to affiliate stations across the country each week, and by 1955 CBS itself was up to 2,500 kinescopes per week. While this is Wikipedia and anyone can make up numbers, that seems kind of high but television was also booming and many regions were still getting their first station at that time so it is possible. The number may also include 16mm film prints of filmed series (like Lucy, December Bride, Our Miss Brooks, etc.) which is where I believe most of the complete as-broadcast with commercials prints of many shows like Lucy that are on the collectors market comes from today. I'm sure most stations would get the films, air them at the times they had scheduled (or required by the network if that mattered, for a big hit series I can see the brass at CBS saying "You air Gleason at 8 on Saturdays or else!") and then burning the film, throwing it away, giving it to a station worker, etc. The film served it purpose, now get rid of it. (Stations would air shows off the network scheduled time. In my boxes I have a story from an old We Love Lucy fan club newsletter talking about how someone found a newspaper ad and then station records proving that a station in North Dakota or somewhere in the middle of nowhere aired the premiere episode of I Love Lucy on Saturday, October 13, 1951, two days before the premiere date. So anything is possible!)

As for the comment from the booklet about never knowing what might be in your house, that comment is so true. A lot of movies thought to be lost forever turn up in boxes in barns, attics, you-name-it odd places. Pepito the Spanish Clown's wife had film under her bed which was a 16mm print of the I Love Lucy pilot which was, I believe, the only known print that still existed at the time. (I saw a quote of the widow who said she didn't know it was the pilot that she was showing at family reunions for all those years!)

This is great information and it sure does provide some possibilities!

TeeVeeCloset

10-17-2011, 09:34 AM

I wonder if people have contacted via email MPI and asked them about discs 1-3 not loading properly.

On mine the "play all" function does not work, so after every episode you need to start from the menu, also it is annoying that the MPI promos at the beginning of the discs, don't have a "skip over option" So far as I haven't checked all discs, I can live with the problems.

Bill S.

10-17-2011, 08:25 PM

My guess would be by using the coaxial cable across the country a show may be kinescoped in major cities according to the time zone. (i.e. New York for Eastern, Chicago for Central zone, Denver for Mountain zone, Los Angeles for Pacific zone) Then, using this "hot process" the films would be ready for broadcast in minutes and then could be shown in their scheduled time slot on the network. Since some channels may have been outside of nowhere and not directly affiliated with a network (for example, WSPD-13 in Toledo, Ohio when it first signed on into the mid-50's would broadcast shows from CBS, NBC, ABC and DuMont) then who knows how many kinescopes were created and sent to these "small markets" for delayed broadcast.
Very interesting. That makes me feel even more confident that additional sketches will turn up in the future. Hopefully by the 70th Anniversary we'll have a truly complete collection.

Pepito the Spanish Clown's wife had film under her bed which was a 16mm print of the I Love Lucy pilot which was, I believe, the only known print that still existed at the time.
Has another print been found since then?

Note at the beginning is a very short clip, maybe 3 or 5 seconds if that long, of Gleason and Carney from what looks like "The New Bowling Ball" sketch! Just interesting that a "lost" show was making a quick appearance on TV in 1974!
Even more interesting is the fact that "New Bowling Ball," the 1952 version of "Christmas Party," and the "Stand In for Murder" remake were all seen or heard again in some way, shape or form after their original broadcasts and prior to the original Lost Episodes releases, yet none of them were officially released until this year.

On mine the "play all" function does not work, so after every episode you need to start from the menu, also it is annoying that the MPI promos at the beginning of the discs, don't have a "skip over option" So far as I haven't checked all discs, I can live with the problems.
I haven't had any trouble skipping over the promos on the first and last discs. Are you sure you're pressing the right button?

Captain_Video

10-21-2011, 06:55 PM

It's relisted on Amazon. I'm going to guess that Amazon was not packaging them right in boxes and were getting damaged while in transit.

JohnXXVII

10-22-2011, 10:06 AM

Bill S.

10-28-2011, 07:31 PM

Finishing up Disc 2, it's obvious that not all the episodes have been remastered. Some of them look the same as before; Glow Worm Cleaning, The Dinner Guest, Suspense. The "new to us" episodes, Christmas Party 1952 and The Dorsey Brothers Show, aren't cleaned up very well either.
It said on TVshowsonDVD.com that half-a-dozen skits were "recently found in the vaults." Since some of those "new to us" shows don't appear to have been cleaned up much, if at all, I guess it's safe to assume that they might have been found at the last minute and there wasn't much time to clean them up. "The Turkey" obviously didn't go through the same type of restoration process as "Lost Baby" or "Quiz Show."

With The Dorsey Brothers Show, it seems as if not all the footage from the episode is included. Acts 1 and 3 end abruptly, as if there could have been more.
I think it has to do with the way they were edited. I noticed a scene in "Move Uptown" ends in a similar manner, but I don't remember it ending so abruptly in the past. It sounds like the fade out music was altered on previous releases, sometimes to blend seamlessly with the opening music of the following scene, but I don't think the people at UCLA took the time to do that for this set. I doubt anything is really missing, but I did notice that with "Dorsey Brothers Show" as well.

Bill S.

11-04-2011, 11:00 PM

DVD Talk's review of the Lost Episodes set is up and earns the DVD Talk Collectors Series star of approval:

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/51733/honeymooners-lost-episodes-comp-restored-series/?___rd=1
Couple interesting things:
The set also includes the eight surviving episodes of Cavalcade of Stars featuring Gleason, Carney, and a very young Randolph but with Pert Kelton as Alice.
Did the reviewer miscount or was the Ed Sullivan sketch removed from newer copies? This review was posted more than three weeks after the set was released.

Scripts for three shows - "Easter Hats," "Alice's Birthday," and "Missing Pair of Pants" - are not PDFs but rather reproduced onscreen in step-frame format. On large TVs the scripts are easily readable but may be less so on smaller monitors.
I've tried to view those scripts on five different TVs and two computers, all with different size screens (ranging from very large to very small), and they're blurry and unreadable on all of them. Once again, this review was done several weeks after the original release, so I'm wondering if this issue was fixed on later pressings. Hopefully somebody that purchased the set more recently can clear things up for us.

ChrisTV

11-10-2011, 03:41 PM

Regarding Disc replacement, MPI replied today saying...

"If you can send me your address, we will send out a new copy.
We are aware of the problems, and the new units are being manufactured.

Thank you
Niki
MPI Customer Service."

Not sure if this means they are replacing Discs 1, 2, 3 & 15.
Make sure to fill in this form at...
http://www.mpihomevideo.com/Contact/

Chris

TV Knowledge Fan

11-10-2011, 05:14 PM

...before October 1951, there was no coast-to-coast coaxial cable connecting the Eastern and Western halves of the United States, as far as live television transmissions were concerned. The networks had to distribute 16mm kinescopes of "live" programs- or 16mm film prints of filmed shows- to those affiliates who were unable to schedule "live" shows at the time they were supposed to be telecast.

Let's say, in 1951, the CBS affiliate in "Wolfington, Vermont" can't carry "THE GEORGE BURNS AND GRACIE ALLEN SHOW" live on Thursdays at 8pm because they have to show ABC's "STOP THE MUSIC" at the same time (in this imaginary scenario, the "Wolfington" affiliate is the ONLY channel on the air in their area, and they carry some of CBS and ABC's programs). So the network sends them a kinnie of George & Gracie's latest episode, and they schedule it locally for, say, Friday night at 10:30, because that's the only available time period they have on their schedule. Because they carry two networks' programming, as well as their own local series, it wouldn't be surprising to see "ARTHUR GODFREY AND HIS FRIENDS" (seen nationally on Wednesdays at 8pm) in "Wolfington" at 11pm on Tuesdays....

Even after the coaxial cable made "coast-to-coast" live programming possible, the fact was, that some smaller affiliates were still unable to present "live" programming due to them being affiliated with more than one network, or scheduling conflicts. So the shipments of kinescopes continued, right into the '60s. And more than 90% of those were either destroyed or "tossed away". Some of them were saved by certain individuals....and, in the case of Jackie Gleason, he demanded and received a copy of virtually every one of his CBS shows for his own archives [it was in his contract, as he was determined to save as much of his TV legacy as possible, after learning about DuMont dumping all of their "CAVALCADE OF STARS" kinnies into the East River, and occasionally melting down the film for its silver content].

:tv: