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Gabe Kaplan wanted the show to remain a straight up comedy, while James Komack wanted to make the show more into a dramedy. What would you have perferred seeing more? Whose side would you take in their bitter battle? Who really ruined "WBK?"

I gotta take Gabe's side on this one. Though I think the loss of John Travolta would've helped sink the show either way.

James Komack killed the show. Kaplan created all the characters (originally for his stand-up act) and had a vision for the direction the series should take. Komack as the producer pulled rank and took the series in a different direction. Not only did he ruin the show but he caused Kaplan to be absent from almost all of the season three episodes.

I am ready for season 2 on DVD!!! It has been so long since I have watched seasons 2-4 that I dont remember much about them. I will always remember season 4 with John Travolta working as an orderly "I am so confused" hahahaha and something like

Mr Kotter: Vinnie if you just wanted to be an orderly you didnt even have to go to school.

Vinnie: Now you tell me

:lol:

Not only did he ruin the show but he caused Kaplan to be absent from almost all of the season three episodes.

I thought it was the Season 4 episodes. :confused:

I thought it was the Season 4 episodes. :confused:
You're right it was the 4th season that Kaplan was absent from most of the episodes. :blush:

Kaplan had a plan for season four involving Kotter and the Sweathogs migrating to a community college. I'm sure in the grand sitcom tradition, Woodman would have ended up there as well.

They were starting to look too old for high school students and this would have given the show at least four more years -- possibly more, as it would have taken them forever to get a degree.

I think Kaplan being there would have helped the fourth season, because the void created by his and Travolta's departures really hurt the show. When you build a show around a group of characters and two of the five leave, it really upsets the chemistry.

^ I agree with that, though I think they all looked to old to be high school kids from day one! :lol:

Monika, you think they were old, just watch the movie Grease. Stockard Channing (Rizzo) was 35 playing a teenager. She was nearly old enough to be Rizzo's mother!!

You don't mess with what works, so I blame James Komack. The loss of John Travolta was the key that killed it overall though

Monika, you think they were old, just watch the movie Grease. Stockard Channing (Rizzo) was 35 playing a teenager. She was nearly old enough to be Rizzo's mother!!

Not to mention Olivia Newton-John was pushing 30. I think the only cast members who were still teenagers at the time of filming were Dinah Manoff (Marty) and Lorenzo Lamas (Tom).

You don't mess with what works, so I blame James Komack. The loss of John Travolta was the key that killed it overall though

Agreed. :yeahthat

Not to mention Olivia Newton-John was pushing 30. I think the only cast members who were still teenagers at the time of filming were Dinah Manoff (Marty) and Lorenzo Lamas (Tom).

I just read that Gabrielle Carteris from Beverly Hills 90210 just turned 50, which means she was 30 while playing a teenager.:eek:

I just read that Gabrielle Carteris from Beverly Hills 90210 just turned 50, which means she was 30 while playing a teenager.:eek:

Yup, I remember that!!! :nod:

There are some who also point to Komack for the demise of The Courtship of Eddie's Father, particularly how Season 3 was not up to the standards of the first two seasons of that series. I'm sure there's plenty of blame to go around in that case, but I'm thankful for The Komack Co. overall or the series may have never existed. Bixby/Komack friction may have been very different, but to later have Kaplan/Komack conflict reveals Komack tended to stand his ground.

I wonder as far as Welcome Back Kotter, it was James' propensity to want to explore social issues that prompted him to drift towards dramedy eventually? On Courtship there were several episodes dwelling on women's liberation, interracial dating, U.S./Russia politics, etc. Maybe it was just in Komack's nature to want to get into that kind of stuff -- and the college setting would have leant itself.

To play devil's advocate here, James Komack had a lot to deal with in the late 70s. Not only had Kaplan and Travolta (mostly) jumped ship from WBK, but he had to deal with the death of Freddie Prinze, the star of his other hit show, Chico & The Man. I can't say I envy the man all he had to go through. He died in 1997, and I don't think he ever had another hit series. Just a sad situation - and no winners.

I gotta take Gabe Kaplan's side on this. To remove him and not have Travolta on during the last season was a big mistake. Also on the last season they got new writers who really didnt know how to write for a show like Kotter, and they wrote bad scrips. One script was allegedly so back the Epstien lit it on fire.


Also I agree with Kaplan that they should have went with his idea and did the college thing. By the show ended these guys were in their mid 20's.

Yeah, but it was Travolta's choice to leave, save the occasional guest spot. He was just coming off Saturday Night Fever and Grease - but he may have wished he'd stayed on WBK instead of doing the godawful 1978 "romantic" movie with Lily Tomlin, Moment By Moment. Thankfully for him, he rebounded soon after with Urban Cowboy.

I gotta take Gabe Kaplan's side on this. To remove him and not have Travolta on during the last season was a big mistake. Also on the last season they got new writers who really didnt know how to write for a show like Kotter, and they wrote bad scrips. One script was allegedly so back the Epstien lit it on fire.


Also I agree with Kaplan that they should have went with his idea and did the college thing. By the show ended these guys were in their mid 20's.
Yeah that was a huge mistake by Komack. Getting rid of the writers that had worked on the show from the beginning and were familiar with the characters, stoy lines etc. and replacing them with writers who didn't know the show at all. I guess it was his way of showing Kaplan whose boss but it shows just how vindictive he was.

I think it was a combination of things. John Travolta bolted from the series for greener pastures starring in movie roles, Kaplan and Komack were at odds, and I once read that Gabe Kaplan and Marcia Strassman didn't get along all that well either.

The 1st season is out on DVD, I would like to have the 2nd and 3rd seasons also but not the 4th season.

^ Agreed. Gabe Kaplan and Marcia Strassman have since resolved their differences, and were photographed together at some recent event:

Gabe and Marcia have both aged very gracefully! They both look great! And I'm glad they were able to put their differences behind them!

That is indeed a great photo. I think Ron Palillo (Horshack) was at that same event.

I saw some first season episodes recently, and really enjoyed them. For a show to be on four years is pretty good an better than average. It was weird to see Mr. Kotter now 15 years younger than me. I wish Gabe Kaplan would have done more television work instead of poker. Professional poker is for wankers.

What killed Kotter.....

1.) Gabe Kaplan appeared on the show less and less. Since he was the central character in the series, it fell apart. Marcia Strassman tried to fill that void, but it did not work out.

2.) The students in the class were too old to be High Schoolers in the first place, but they really did not have a direction for the characters except at the school. Ironically, Ron Pallilo, who played Horseshack was the oldest actor of the four students, but the only one of the four who looked like he was 17. The show could not go on the way it was, with 26 year old 11th graders.

3.) Travolta left, being replaced by a southern boy character, who would be more at home in Tupelo than in Brooklyn. The show should have been cancelled there, or they should have found a new direction for it. What they should have done was to graduate the Sweathogs, and drop the school theme altogether.

^ I agree with that, and even though they brought in people like Charles Fleischer (Carvelli) to try to spice up the proceedings, it didn't work. From what little I've seen of WBK's final season, there was no energy - none. You could tell everyone was going through the motions - not that I could blame them.

^ I agree with that, and even though they brought in people like Charles Fleischer (Carvelli) to try to spice up the proceedings, it didn't work. From what little I've seen of WBK's final season, there was no energy - none. You could tell everyone was going through the motions - not that I could blame them.
I think everyone in the cast realized that the show was on its last legs at that point so it's no wonder they were just going through the motions.

I think I even heard at one point there was talk of spinning off Horshack and his new bride, Mary, into a new show. However, it never got off the ground. I wonder how that would've played out if the show had been made. They still could've had Horshack's buddies Epstein and Washington hanging around, and maybe Mrs. Kotter could've popped in occasionally.

It's really too bad that egos and infighting sabotaged Kotter. The first three seasons were great and very enjoyable.

When I sat down to watch the DVDs of season one, I wondered if Kotter would be one of those shows that didn't age well and I wouldn't find it funny anymore. No worries, I still enjoyed it.

I think I even heard at one point there was talk of spinning off Horshack and his new bride, Mary, into a new show. However, it never got off the ground. I wonder how that would've played out if the show had been made. They still could've had Horshack's buddies Epstein and Washington hanging around, and maybe Mrs. Kotter could've popped in occasionally.

There actually was a Horshack pilot that aired as an episode (what was back then called a "Backdoor pilot") of WBK. I believe it aired in the second season. You actually got to see where he lived, his brothers and sisters, mother, etc. It was a kind of a weak episode and wisely, they kept Arnold on the mother show.

This was before the character of Mary came along, so a show with the two of them as a married couple would have to have been towards the unglorious demise of WBK.

^ Yes, I read that the idea of the proposed spinoff came just before WBK was cancelled in 1979.

^ Yes, I read that the idea of the proposed spinoff came just before WBK was cancelled in 1979.

I think if Travolta bolted with Kaplan still in charge, Kaplan would have made it work out. And I believe Travolta would have still recurred for the rest of the season or at least appeared for a graduation episode (very disappointed that he didn't show for Horshack's wedding though, yet Vinnie was there in spirit when his apartment was used for the bachelor party). I think Kotter only had two or three storylines that entire season (the premiere, the episode where he talked sense into the other Sweathogs about Vinnie's apartment, and the episode where Washington, Juan and Beau try to compose a school song).

^ :yeahthat I would've liked to see the school song episode. It sounds like fun!! :lol:

It's now fairly common knowledge that when Gabe and Marcia had their falling out, that the Sweathogs took sides - which obviously did not do much for team morale. Does anyone know what the late John Sylvester White's feelings were? His role was pretty small compared to the others on the show - not to mention pretty one-dimensional as well. I know that the cast loved him (in the years following Mr. White's passing, the remaining cast members - especially Ron Palillo and Bobby Hegyes - have referred to him as the sweetest man on earth, totally the opposite of Woodman). Does anyone know what HIS relationship was like with James Komack?

Here you can hear both cast and crew speak in their own words about the rise and fall of Kotter:

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Komack ruined the show plain and simple. He felt like his ideas were the right ones and everyone else's were wrong hence fighting with Kaplan and firing all the writers after season 3. Komack wanted everything his way, probably wanted to change the name of the show to 'Welcome Back, Komack'.

komack ruined the show with his stupid ideas and HUGE ego

James Komack ruined the WBK series.The show was a comedy, period.And Gabe's idea of them matriculating to a CC was perfect, it would've allowed them to mature in many different ways.Even with John off the show, they could have pulled another couple of seasons.

It' been two years since anyone jumped on this thread, but I'll interject anyway. :lol: I don't mind trying to revive some dialogue in this forum. I'll do my best to get some conversation going again even if it only results in the echo of my own voice. Mods don't be afraid to jump in.

I think Welcome Back Kotter was going to run it's course no matter who was at the helm writing the scripts. It was very much a period piece about kids in school at that point. And for those of us who lived it during those years (I was in middle school), Kotter was popular BECAUSE it was very much a sign of the times. And times changed dramatically by late '79 and the evolution into the 80's.

Need I remind everyone how much Travolta was disowned for his fame? There wasn't a high school in America that would acknowledge him after celebrating him on notebook covers, posters, and lunch boxes for five years. So Kotter, to me, very much played out as best as it could, for as long as it could.