I just saw this case and was wondering what everyone else thought about it. Cecilia was 8 1/2 months pregnant when she and her son Rene went missing in 1994. According to her husband he saw the two of them before he left for work and when he returned home they were gone. The only things left were a Goodbye card and her wedding rings in their jeep.

Several months before she went missing Cecilia reportedly got a call from a woman who claimed to have a picture showing her husband kissing another woman. The same woman called again months later offering to show her baby furniture on the day she went missing.

Something about the husband doesn't sit well with me. He seemed sincere in some parts but rather unworried in other parts. But, I was also working with the theory Cecilia was being stalked by a woman who wanted her baby. It's possible, but pretty slim. The other idea is she was taken out of the picture by someone who was having an affair with her husband.

I don't understand the last one though. If someone did do that, why? Why not just show her the evidence and let Cecilia leave her husband? I'm going to assume Cecilia told others about the calls and this isn't just coming from her husband.

Personally, I think they are dead and I'm not buying it that she took her son and left for Honduras. I would like to know if they could lift prints from the second envelope that was mailed to the husband days after she went missing, or if the calls could ever be traced.

Hi Star Mushrooms,
The Cecelia Newball case has always intrigued me. I often visit their profile pages on the Charley Project. I too don't believe that Cecelia and Rene could be alive, after all this time. To my knowledge, Cecelia had informed her friends about the mysterious phone calls. I remember on the segment that one of her friends was describing the baby shower phone call.
Hmm...I never thought about the possibility of an affair with Alfredo. But i have always thought about the possibility that Cecelia and Rene were kidnapped by a woman who wanted a baby. I hear about those stories in the news, of women who have faked a pregnancy, and who will kidnap a newborn or unborn child from their birth mother. These women fake pregnancies for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they can't have children of their own, or they have lost a pregnancy, or they kidnap b/c they believe that a pregnancy and an infant will help them to hold onto a fragile relationship, etc., etc. I remember this very interesting program that I saw on TLC a few years back, which creates psychological profiles of these women. It is called I'd Kill For a Baby. IN fact, one of the cases that this episode profiled was Carlina White's case. Carlina was an infant abducted from Harlem Hospital, and she was mentioned in passing int he Marlene Santana kidnapping story. SO, I really do have my suspicions that Cecelia, who was almost at the point of delivery, could have fallen prey to such a kidnapper or potential killer. And perhaps Rene could also have been kidnapped and murdered because he would have been a witness.
I also have 2 questions that have been bugging me about this case:
1) What do you think about the police's theory that the mystery woman was someone that Cecelia knew? THe police mentioned something that whoever made the phone calls or wrote the "goodbye letter" knew more about Alfredo's side of the family than Cecelia's. Perhaps this woman knew Cecelia enough that Cecelia thought that she could trust her. Perhaps this woman used Cecelia's trust to lure her away from safety.
2) Do you think there is the possibility taht Cecelia's child could be alive, especially if Cecelia was kidnapped for her baby? Do you think taht there could be the possibility that a 16 year old child is somewhere out there, not knowing the story about his or her mother? (LIke how Carlina White and Marlene Santana are most likely living their lives?) Cecelia's chlid would have been viable, at 8 months old.

1) What do you think about the police's theory that the mystery woman was someone that Cecelia knew? THe police mentioned something that whoever made the phone calls or wrote the "goodbye letter" knew more about Alfredo's side of the family than Cecelia's. Perhaps this woman knew Cecelia enough that Cecelia thought that she could trust her. Perhaps this woman used Cecelia's trust to lure her away from safety.

1. Perhaps a jealous love killed Cecilia and the child.
2. Alfredo or someone he hired offed both.
3. They were both adbucted as markers for some "debt" that Alfredo has.

Do you think there is the possibility taht Cecelia's child could be alive, especially if Cecelia was kidnapped for her baby? Do you think taht there could be the possibility that a 16 year old child is somewhere out there, not knowing the story about his or her mother? (LIke how Carlina White and Marlene Santana are most likely living their lives?) Cecelia's chlid would have been viable, at 8 months old.

There is a remote possibility...

A lot depends on the whether the abduction was....
1. Amateur? (desperate mother)
2. Professional (baby smuggling ring)

One problem with this case is Rene...Once Cecilia was captured...what did the abductor do with Rene? If any attempt was done to kill him..I would have to imagine that Cecilia would not stand by idle. The abductor would be at a disadvantage in that he would have to attack Cecilia to get to the child. I suppose a gun could have been used. Still the kid remains a problem here.

To me the fact that Rene is among the missing is a huge factor in this case. It leads me to believe that both Rene and Cecilia were killed.

1. Perhaps a jealous love killed Cecilia and the child.
2. Alfredo or someone he hired offed both.
3. They were both adbucted as markers for some "debt" that Alfredo has.



There is a remote possibility...

A lot depends on the whether the abduction was....
1. Amateur? (desperate mother)
2. Professional (baby smuggling ring)

One problem with this case is Rene...Once Cecilia was captured...what did the abductor do with Rene? If any attempt was done to kill him..I would have to imagine that Cecilia would not stand by idle. The abductor would be at a disadvantage in that he would have to attack Cecilia to get to the child. I suppose a gun could have been used. Still the kid remains a problem here.

To me the fact that Rene is among the missing is a huge factor in this case. It leads me to believe that both Rene and Cecilia were killed.

I was thinking the same thing you were thinking in the last part. Rene doesn't make sense. Though there is a chance someone desperate for a baby killed Cecilia, as you said Rene is a problem.

Even if someone killed the mother Rene was old enough that even if he wasn't killed he could still tell someone about what happened to his mother. Or, if Rene was kept seperate from his mother it isn't hard to think someone could have told him his mother died and now they had to take care of him and the new baby, if the baby was stolen and lived.

I still can't help but think Rene would have said something through the years if he was still alive. This is why I believe he was killed along with his mother, and I also believe Alfredo knows something about what happened to them and isn't about to say anything.

Another thing I thought of is whether prints could be pulled from her wedding ring to see if someone else removed them from her and placed them in the jeep.

I think thats a great theory mah79 and one I had never thought of - that someone who wanted a baby may have kidnapped Cecelia and her son. I wonder if it was in the original plan to bring her son along if she indeed go to that meeting that was mentioned. Perhaps the person responsible (if it did happen this way) didn't realize she had a son. I never thought the husband had anything to do with it. He seemed genuine. I had considered that maybe Cecelia really did leave him but if she were going to "confess" it to him in a letter she would have certainly went ahead and packed up all her belongings and took with her.

Theres no mention of anything like a big life insurance policy, no suspicious moves clear on the part of Alfredo that would conclusively point to him with the exception of a NEARBY postmarked letter, the ring, etc. I think its a 50/50 chance that Alfredo Newball was involved. But I think its a 98 per cent chance that Cecilia, and her children were kidnapped, and either were killed and dumped in the vast mountains someplace outside los angeles, OR were kidnapped for, as aformentioned by another post... perhaps a baby smuggling ring or slavery of some kind... LA is a dangerous city with many different trajectories of foul play possibly aimed at Cecilia, her baby and Rene. But in any case its been 16 years so the chance of them being alive is nil at this point. Im certain that, while perhaps not at the time of the show filming, by now those kids would have turned up long ago if they had survived the event... even if it was voluntary on Cecilia's part. :mad:

Theres no mention of anything like a big life insurance policy, no suspicious moves clear on the part of Alfredo that would conclusively point to him with the exception of a NEARBY postmarked letter, the ring, etc. I think its a 50/50 chance that Alfredo Newball was involved. But I think its a 98 per cent chance that Cecilia, and her children were kidnapped, and either were killed and dumped in the vast mountains someplace outside los angeles, OR were kidnapped for, as aformentioned by another post... perhaps a baby smuggling ring or slavery of some kind... LA is a dangerous city with many different trajectories of foul play possibly aimed at Cecilia, her baby and Rene. But alas its been 16 years so the chance of them being alive is nil. :mad:

I of course couldn't tell you for sure what happened, however with repeated viewings of this segment, it doesn't seem to me that Alfredo Newball is responsible. I've always thought that there definitely was a mysterious third party somehow involved.

I of course couldn't tell you for sure what happened, however with repeated viewings of this segment, it doesn't seem to me that Alfredo Newball is responsible. I've always thought that there definitely was a mysterious third party somehow involved.

Ditto.

Probably 98% of the time when I see a segment like this, I think the surviving spouse is to blame. However, I think there is an excellent chance that Alfredo Newball was innocent. Part of my rationale here could be his demeanor in the segment - NEVER a good thing to completely rely on - but Alrfredo struck me as genuinely saddened and grief-stricken by the disappearance of his wife, stepson and newborn. Just a gut feeling on my part.

I have wondered if she was having an affair and left to start a new life with her lover. Still, you would think that some trace would have been found all these years later, but stranger things have happened.

Perhaps she was abducted and killed for her baby, but why would they target Rene as well? Perhaps he just happened to be present when she was lured away from safety and her abductors had to murder him as well. A grisly thought in any event.

I keep going back to the woman caller in this case. It just seems so bizarre. Why would she lie and tell Cecilia that she needed to pick out a furniture piece? The first thing I thought of was somebody who desperately wanted a baby and would kill for one. I've heard of stories before where the killer (usually a woman desperately wanting a child) would lure the pregnant woman to her house with the promise of giving her something baby related.

My questions are:

1) Did they determine for certain that the woman caller asking Cecilia to pick out a piece of furniture is the same woman to call her months earlier about Alfredo kissing another woman?

2) The segment mentioned that the investigators traced the call back and determined it was not a co-worker of Alfredo. If they traced the call and determined it was not a co-worker, then did this person ever get investigated?

Ditto.

Probably 98% of the time when I see a segment like this, I think the surviving spouse is to blame. However, I think there is an excellent chance that Alfredo Newball was innocent. Part of my rationale here could be his demeanor in the segment - NEVER a good thing to completely rely on - but Alrfredo struck me as genuinely saddened and grief-stricken by the disappearance of his wife, stepson and newborn. Just a gut feeling on my part.

I have wondered if she was having an affair and left to start a new life with her lover. Still, you would think that some trace would have been found all these years later, but stranger things have happened.

Perhaps she was abducted and killed for her baby, but why would they target Rene as well? Perhaps he just happened to be present when she was lured away from safety and her abductors had to murder him as well. A grisly thought in any event.

Alfredo's behavior struck me as suspicious.

First, like all these missing wife cases, when the last person to see the wife is also a suspect, it renders his statements suspect, at least. Alfredo claims he saw his wife at 230 and when he called at 5 or so, there was no answer. I suppose the calls from the nursing home to the apartment can be verified, but there's apparently no other witness to Cecilia being home. By itself, this isn't terribly unusual, of course, but it does mean we have only Alfredo's word that she was there.

What made Alfredo nervous about that day? He indicated first that he thought she was out with a friend, yet he claims to have called repeatedly and then went home early - if you just think your wife is out with a friend, that's no reason to panic.

The call to her male best friend was also odd - why would Alfredo think she was there at midnight? Why was he so calm?

It also doesn't make sense to me that everyone (including Alfredo) says they were happy, that things were good, yet he immediately accepts she left him. That's totally inconsistent, which means either things were NOT good and/or Alfredo is lying.

I am also deeply troubled by the fact that Alfredo didn't report his wife missing to the police. He said he thought she just needed time away - but again, this isn't consistent with the idea of someone happy and in love or with his original (claimed) panicky response. The segment indicated that a co-worker reported her missing - this makes me wonder, how long had it been since anyone BESIDES Alfredo had seen her and what due diligence they had done - you'd think they would have called Alfredo first - did he lie or be evasive to them, causing suspicion?

To me, the letter is almost certainly a fake.

The calls from the mystery woman are likely related. I agree with her friend that it's a major coincidence that Cecelia was scheduled to meet this woman the same day she disappeared.

In '94, I'm not sure if LE could have obtained records of calls into a number; so I'm not sure if they could have traced this call - if this is wrong (and it might be), it would be interested to see where it traced to - even to a phone booth might be a lead. It would have been possible to check the letter for fingerprints, but it's also very possible none were found. If the letter still exists and has been properly archived, it might also be possible to check the gum flap and stamp for DNA, although the chances for a clean sample aren't very good, IMO.

In the end, I have to agree with the Detective in this one. I think it is unlikely that Cecilia voluntarily disappeared and I also think Alfredo knows more then he is saying. I'm not saying he personally did it (although I can't eliminate the possibility), but at a minimum, I think he knows WHY Cecelia disappeared and knows, or has a pretty good idea of WHO did it.

I'm almost certain Cecelia and Rene are dead. As for Cecelia's baby, I'll concede that it could have been viable, but I don't think that was the reason for the disappearance. It's far easier to just kidnap an actual baby, IMO, then kidnap a late-stage pregnant woman and either induce labor and/or forcibly remove the baby. You'd need some sort of medical equipment, some sort of medical space, almost certainly more then one person, it just seems overly complicated and far more likely to result in eye or ear witnesses to your actions.

I can't make up my mind of this one. I always leaned toward the husband being innocent and Cecilia being abducted and murdered for her baby.

Cecilia was 8 1/2 months pregnant. Anyone who's a mom can verify that that's not the time when you are thinking about leaving your hospital, obstetrician, home, loved ones, support, money, and baby stuff behind just so you can run off to another country with a new lover. It's also not the time to run off with your kid to clear your head or get away or get some alone time or whatever. IMO, there would have had to been some very bad things going on at home for her to willingly leave like that and if her home life was that bad, police probably would have discovered it early in their investigation.

If Cecilia planned to go to Honduras with her lover (as was claimed in that typewritten note), she would have been setting it up for months ahead of time. IMO, there would have been evidence of her preparing a new home and contacting new healthcare providers because the baby was due in a matter of days. I've only met one woman who took a long flight late in her pregnancy. I doubt it was connected, but her baby was stillborn several days later. Almost everyone else I've ever heard of or met wouldn't travel that far because of the risk of giving birth on the flight, the uncomfortableness of being hugely pregnant on a long flight, and the risk of having the baby while away from home. Would Cecilia want to travel all the way to Honduras while being about ready to deliver a new baby plus having her 6 year old son along with her and carrying no luggage?

There's a part early in Alfredo's interview where he looks like he's about to cry and the camera cuts away immediately. Kinda makes it hard to read his behavior because of that. It is very weird that so soon after her disappearance, he seems so willing to accept that she was unhappy at home and ran off with Rene and the baby.

The fact that Cecilia was writing out her thank you cards from a baby shower is an indication that she didn't plan to leave. Add in the weird phone calls and the fact that she didn't take anything with her and alarm bells should be going off telling Alfredo that no matter what the notes said, she didn't leave willingly.

The "generic good bye" greeting card that was left behind was signed only with Cecilia's name. Three days later, an identical card (this time with a typewritten note enclosed) was received by Alfredo in the mail. That strikes me as being overly dramatic and unnecessary, sort of along the lines of the 3 page JonBenet ransom note. Something is off about that card. The kidnapper or the husband left it in order to deflect police attention off of them.

In the typewritten note, she says that she met some dude nine months ago, he could be the father of her baby but she's not sure, and she's running off to Honduras to be with him. WHAT? She had some fling with a stranger, who she knows nothing about, and is leaving the country to be with him because he's a rich doctor and Alfredo will "never amount to anything"? Then she signs it with her typewritten full, 3 name, legal name. This is one of the things that I think points to the husband. If it was a baby snatching crazy woman, I don't think she would have bothered to send yet another note to the victim's husband. She'd just take the baby and go.

Cecilia and Rene left everything behind. They didn't even take clothes or toys. Even if she wanted to leave and make it look like an abduction, Rene was young enough that he would have taken at least a favorite toy with him. It would cost a lot of money to start completely over with new stuff for both of them. They'd need everything from maternity clothes to post-baby clothes to socks and underwear to all new clothes and supplies for the baby. Cecilia's wedding rings were left behind, so she couldn't sell them and use the money to buy the necessities. I also didn't think that she and Alfredo had enough income to have money stashed away for her to start a whole new life with.

Cecilia's friend, that guy Anabel, seems to definitely believe that Alfredo killed them, but something about him gives me the creeps. He comes across very strange in his interview.

Six months before Cecilia and Rene disappeared, and when Cecilia was about 2 or 3 months pregnant (at which time she would not be showing and the baby definitely would not be viable), she received a phone call from a woman claiming to have video of Alfredo kissing another woman at a baby shower. Gah! Really? What is this segment's obsession with men attending baby showers? Anyway, Cecilia agreed to view the tape and the woman said she'd call back with info on where to meet for this viewing. She never called back to make those arrangements.

A few months later, and a few weeks before Cecilia and Rene go missing, a woman calls claiming to be a co-worker of Alfredo's. They are going to throw him a surprise baby shower at work and Cecilia needs to come pick out a gift a furniture. The police determined that there was no baby shower and the co-worker had not called. When Cecilia goes to pick out the furniture, that's the day she goes missing. I suppose it could have been that Alfredo had a female accomplice, a girlfriend maybe, and he used this as a set up to lure Cecilia and Rene away from the house so he could kill them, or it could be a woman who wanted the baby so she set up the fake meeting.

In '94, I'm not sure if LE could have obtained records of calls into a number; so I'm not sure if they could have traced this call - if this is wrong (and it might be), it would be interested to see where it traced to - even to a phone booth might be a lead.

I think it was in the early 90s when caller ID started being available to the general public. At that time, it was a feature that you had to arrange for with your telephone provider and pay an extra monthly fee for, as well as having a phone with a screen to display the details of the incoming calls. I'm guessing that Cecilia and Alfredo did not have the caller ID service nor the right kind of phone so that would have meant cops couldn't have gotten the info from them.

But because of that technology being available, maybe there would have been records available from the phone company at that time. They must have looked into this. Maybe the earlier calls were too old for that info to still be in the telephone company's system?

I must admit that this case baffles me.

On first glance, I could readily believe the husband and that she left him for some rich bozo and go to Honduras. I've seen - and lived - stranger things that involving pregnant women in my numerous adventures with women. ;) I have had such types of women tell me they wanted to flee their boring relationships and start a new life while pregnant, and so I can believe it's a possibility.

That said, what complicates the matter for me is that if she left, she did it when she was 8 months pregnant. Women have a lot of trouble moving around at such an advanced state, and if she had known in advance that she was pregnant with another man that she loved, she wouldn't have waited 8 months before leaving her husband. She would have eloped within the first months when it would be easier to travel around.

Additionally, women change mentally A LOT when they are nearing giving birth, and their priorities shift. Cecilia's first priority would have been to make sure that her child gets to term, and fleeing immediately to Honduras with a lover certainly would be hazardous to her pregnancy. Even if she gave birth in a US hospital beforehand, she would still need to hide until she gets to term, she would need to hide the fact that she is married and on the run, and she could rise suspicions because it could be considered kidnapping. If she had done that, she would have surfaced somewhere.

Unless the woman is one of the skankiest, cold-hearted, narcissistic woman possible that marries a man with the specific plan in mind to cuckold the hell out of him, most women do not leave their husband on a lam without giving out clues of dissatisfaction. I did not have a read that Cecilia was such a woman, in fact by all accounts she was obsessed by her husband. Could it be overcompensation if she was unfaithful? Possible. Yet, even if she was cheating on him divorce would have been simpler than disappearing and leaving her rings behind. Usually, women disappear like that when they fear for their lives or that they need to start off new lives. Alfredo doesn't seem to be the abusive type, nor someone that would be be a pain in the ass for a divorcing woman, and so I tend not to believe that she ran away with Arturo on her own accord.

Finally, especially because she is pregnant, she would plan her move and she would pack up. She would wait until her husband goes to work and pack as many things as possible before leaving: clothes for her, Rene, and the child, personal effects, medication, etc. But nothing was packed at all, everything was left behind in her home. Even if she indeed had a rich lover, she'd still need to cloth and cloth Rene in the mean time.

So to my sense, while it's a possibility she indeed fled with a man, it's more probable that she was abducted.

Cecilia's friend, that guy Anabel, seems to definitely believe that Alfredo killed them, but something about him gives me the creeps. He comes across very strange in his interview.


Bumping this thread up. I also got a strange vibe from this guy. I don't necessarily believe he was involved, but he says that he would "be screaming at the guy I thought was with my wife" and that Alfredo was "unusually calm." I think at this point, being concerned but not panicking would have been normal. Cecilia had only been gone for a few hours at this point, not being there when Alfredo returned from work. It's natural that the husband would call friends and ask about her whereabouts, but just because the guy wasn't ranting and raving doesn't mean that he's guilty. And how "unusually calm" can he have been calling in the middle of the night?

I think the theory about someone trying to lure her is the correct one. And frankly, it's why I find this to be one of the most disturbing missing persons cases.

I didn't get a suspicous vibe off the coworker. Although I must confess, last time I watched the segment, I did wonder why Alfredo would call that particular coworker out of all the people Cecelia worked with. Have to wonder if they had something more than the usual coworker relationship, to what extent, I wouldn't know.

I think the theory about Cecilia fleeing with the unborn baby's father was pretty legit at the time. But after years and years of not surfacing, I think that theory is shot down in flames. The one thing that makes me think Alfredo is innocent is how everyone says the couple was happy. You usually would get reports of some sort of abuse or tension in the marriage, but no one reported this. Something that I never considered before was how pregnancy affects certain women. Perhaps she did intend to flee with an unknown lover, but after living with the person for awhile decided to go back to Alfredo and this person then murdered her. There's also the possiblity that the mystery woman was the one having an affair with Alfredo, and she murdered Cecilia during their planned meeting for baby furniture. That would explain Alfredo's somewhat suspicious activity after his wife's disappearance.

Anyone ever go to the Cold Case USA blog site? Doing a search for info on this case today is the first time I've seen the site.

Partial quote in blue, and I've never heard this info being stated as fact before. Is this just the blogger's opinion?

The investigation determined that her rat husband was having an extra-martial affair at the time of her disappearance. LA County homicide detectives consider him a person of interest.

http://coldcaseusa.blogspot.com/2011/10/hubby-eyed-in-1994-cecilia-newball.html


CharleyProject says:

Investigators believe Alfredo knows more about his wife and stepson's disappearance than he's disclosed....

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/n/newball_cecilia.html

ETA: I just went to the LA County Sheriff's homicide page and check this out, posted in 2011:

The investigation has determined that Cecilia’s husband was having an extra-martial affair at the time of her disappearance. Law enforcement considers him a person of interest.

http://www.lacountymurders.com/wanted/099-00062-3199-011.pdf

I followed the links from here: http://la-sheriff.org/divisions/detective/homicide/homicide.html

Anyone ever go to the Cold Case USA blog site? Doing a search for info on this case today is the first time I've seen the site.

Partial quote in blue, and I've never heard this info being stated as fact before. Is this just the blogger's opinion?

The investigation determined that her rat husband was having an extra-martial affair at the time of her disappearance. LA County homicide detectives consider him a person of interest.

http://coldcaseusa.blogspot.com/2011/10/hubby-eyed-in-1994-cecilia-newball.html

CharleyProject says:

Investigators believe Alfredo knows more about his wife and stepson's disappearance than he's disclosed....

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/n/newball_cecilia.html

ETA: I just went to the LA County Sheriff's homicide page and check this out, posted in 2011:

The investigation has determined that Cecilia’s husband was having an extra-martial affair at the time of her disappearance. Law enforcement considers him a person of interest.

http://www.lacountymurders.com/wanted/099-00062-3199-011.pdf

I followed the links from here: http://la-sheriff.org/divisions/detective/homicide/homicide.html

I've kind of always sort of had the feeling Alfredo knew more about Cecilia's disappearance than what he was telling. I know many posters here have really felt like he had absolutely nothing to do with it, but I guess I never got a warm fuzzy feeling about it myself. There's something about that letter supposedly written by Cecilia that bothers me, especially that "I love you, but you'll never amount to anything" line. At best, it sounds contrived. At worst, it sounds a lot like an insecure person projecting his own insecure feelings about himself and his marriage.

I've kind of always sort of had the feeling Alfredo knew more about Cecilia's disappearance than what he was telling. I know many posters here have really felt like he had absolutely nothing to do with it, but I guess I never got a warm fuzzy feeling about it myself. There's something about that letter supposedly written by Cecilia that bothers me, especially that "I love you, but you'll never amount to anything" line. At best, it sounds contrived. At worst, it sounds a lot like an insecure person projecting his own insecure feelings about himself and his marriage.
If Alfredo was involved, I'm wondering if he could have been in cahoots with the woman trying to lure Cecilia. I mean, it just sounds like no coincidence that a mysterious woman calls her twice trying to get her to meet with different stories and she vanishes the same day she's supposed to pick up this furniture. Perhaps he and this woman were having an affair? Or perhaps he wasn't involved but he and the woman were together and that's the information he might know, that she harmed Cecilia out of jealousy or something.

If Alfredo was involved, I'm wondering if he could have been in cahoots with the woman trying to lure Cecilia. I mean, it just sounds like no coincidence that a mysterious woman calls her twice trying to get her to meet with different stories and she vanishes the same day she's supposed to pick up this furniture. Perhaps he and this woman were having an affair? Or perhaps he wasn't involved but he and the woman were together and that's the information he might know, that she harmed Cecilia out of jealousy or something.

This is exactly what I think happened. I think Alfredo was an affair with the mystery lady on the phone who became incensed with Cecilia (perhaps because Alfredo wouldn't leave her for the mystery lady). I think Alfredo knows what happened, but he wasn't involved. Wonder what's became of him since the UM taping.

I just saw the segment. Very bizarre about the phone calls but it hits home for me. My mother got calls from my dad's mistress when they were still married. She would say weird things and hang up the phone. My dad's family thought my mother was nuts about it all until my dad's sister answered the phone and the mistress was speaking to her like she was my mother. So I don't doubt for a minute that if this woman was his mistress calling her playing games.

If she was going to meet a lady at another location surely she would have taken her glasses. I know I have to have mine to drive. So I doubt seriously she was taken for her unborn child.

The mistress could have typed the letters and mailed from Van Nuys to make it look like Cecilia had run away. This would take the focus off the husband too.

I just saw this story on Unsolved Mysteries this morning. I been following this story for years. I do believe unfortunately she probably was killed around the same time she disappeared with her son. It's crazy because she was lured twice by a mysterious woman, the second time was successful. I do believe the mysterious woman was probably the mistress of the husband. She went to meet with the woman about the fake baby shower furniture. How did her car get back to her house? Obviously she didn't drive it back. Did the police do a search for fingerprints outside or inside the car? Any updates on the Husband and what happened to him?

I think it wouldn't hurt for LE to follow up on the bones found in a San Francisco planter of an adult and child to eliminate them being Cecelia and son. They probably aren't, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to check. Perhaps the mistress had ties to the area. I started a thread on this awhile back, with no response.

This is a weird case. I'm unsure about it. The letter is interesting to me because it was typed not handwritten. So he could have easily typed the letter. One other thing I question is if the letter was in English or Spanish. If it was typed in Spanish it could explain why the English translation sounds strange....just as some of his statements seem strange as if English isn't his native tounge but I don't know that for sure. And we all know that police zero in on the closest person as the perp especially if something seems strange. But strange doesn't equate to guilt...Tim McClure??

I hate to say it but his interview sort of reminds me of Jeff oberholtzer. He looked guilty to me at first too. he couldn't find an alibi and it was shaky and he kept insisting that Bobby would not take a ride with a stranger which kind of pointed the finger back to someone else even himself. I think Alfredo does the same thing by saying he doesn't think the letter was written by her. I honestly believe that it is possible that she left him and he didn't want to face it, but you would think by now authorities would have found something? It could also be that he knows more. his statement of having a weird feeling before he left is strange to put on the record.

I just rewatched this case for the first time in a long time. There is no doubt in my mind now that Alfredo had involvement with Cecilia and Rene's disappearances.

For starters, he claims he last saw them at 2:30 in the afternoon on the day she disappeared. He tried calling home several times that day with no answer, so then he left work early and went home to find them gone. That's when he found the greeting card and the wedding ring in Cecilia's jeep. Alfredo claims that there were no problems in their marriage but he wasn't that alarmed because he figured she went somewhere to cool off for a few days. Red flag #1. He then called Cecilia's work friend, and did not seem that concerned as to where she was. He never reported her missing to the police, one of Cecilia's relatives did. Red flag #2. The cops interviewed him and he told them the same thing he said on his UM interview, that he thought she left to cool off for a few days and that she would be back. The only problem? The police saw that nothing with regards to clothing, luggage, or even a tooth brush was missing from the residence. Red flag #3. 3 days after being interviewed, is when he got the other card and a type-written note saying that she had left him for another man and went to a different country. Eerily similar to Rob Page. And the police also noted that the letter specifically went into details more about Alfredo's family and friends, more than it did Cecilia's. Whoever wrote that letter knew more about Alfredo than Cecilia. Red flag #4.

I don't think he was directly responsible for their disappearances, however. The police officer interviewed in the segment specifically states that he believes a "3rd party" was involved. Meaning that Alfredo didn't do this alone. Cecilia received 2 different phone calls from women claiming to have intimate knowledge about Alfredo, and the 2nd one actually mentioned a baby shower that they were throwing for her and Alfredo. Cecilia disappeared on the same date as this alleged baby shower. This makes me think that the affair theory is the correct one. Alfredo's lover was responsible for their disappearances (and probable deaths). And I think Alfredo knew that it was going to happen.

I just rewatched this case for the first time in a long time. There is no doubt in my mind now that Alfredo had involvement with Cecilia and Rene's disappearances.

For starters, he claims he last saw them at 2:30 in the afternoon on the day she disappeared. He tried calling home several times that day with no answer, so then he left work early and went home to find them gone. That's when he found the greeting card and the wedding ring in Cecilia's jeep. Alfredo claims that there were no problems in their marriage but he wasn't that alarmed because he figured she went somewhere to cool off for a few days. Red flag #1. He then called Cecilia's work friend, and did not seem that concerned as to where she was. He never reported her missing to the police, one of Cecilia's relatives did. Red flag #2. The cops interviewed him and he told them the same thing he said on his UM interview, that he thought she left to cool off for a few days and that she would be back. The only problem? The police saw that nothing with regards to clothing, luggage, or even a tooth brush was missing from the residence. Red flag #3. 3 days after being interviewed, is when he got the other card and a type-written note saying that she had left him for another man and went to a different country. Eerily similar to Rob Page. And the police also noted that the letter specifically went into details more about Alfredo's family and friends, more than it did Cecilia's. Whoever wrote that letter knew more about Alfredo than Cecilia. Red flag #4.

I don't think he was directly responsible for their disappearances, however. The police officer interviewed in the segment specifically states that he believes a "3rd party" was involved. Meaning that Alfredo didn't do this alone. Cecilia received 2 different phone calls from women claiming to have intimate knowledge about Alfredo, and the 2nd one actually mentioned a baby shower that they were throwing for her and Alfredo. Cecilia disappeared on the same date as this alleged baby shower. This makes me think that the affair theory is the correct one. Alfredo's lover was responsible for their disappearances (and probable deaths). And I think Alfredo knew that it was going to happen.


I think Alfredo knows more as well. I do believe that his lover most likely killed His pregnant wife and his stepson. She wanted Celica out the way, saw a similar story where a woman killed her pregnant lover's wife. So things do like that happens without the husband knowing about it. I do hope they find her remains and her son remains.
I believe it wasn't two women but most likely one woman that called Celica. She probably choked the first time and didn't meet her. She got up enough courage when she called about the Baby shower items.

Red flag #3. 3 days after being interviewed, is when he got the other card and a type-written note saying that she had left him for another man and went to a different country. Eerily similar to Rob Page.

Yes! I thought the same thing. Any time someone leaves a weird, type-written letter like that (especially back then) it looks suspicious as hell. I had the exact same thought that it seems like Pam Page leaving her goodbye letter. Pretty easy to make it say whatever you want when there is no handwriting to compare.

I also agree with you that he is involved with her disappearance (either planning or knowledge of the crime) but I'm not convinced he did the deed. He strikes me as the type who wouldn't have the courage to do this but would be more than willing to cover it up. I think you're correct that the lover is most likely the true perp with Alfredo as an accomplice, before or after the crime.

This case played this morning watching Unsolved Mysteries on Pluto TV. They gave an update, but it just gave the age progression photo of her son and her description (height/weight/etc). There was no update so in my opinion it was dumb and got my hopes up for no reason.

My feeling is 100% that her husband did it. But I don’t think he did it alone. I think the woman calling about the baby shower is involved somehow. Whether that be the mistress or some random person who he conned into doing it.

Up thread there was someone asking about Caller ID: former Telco worker here. Even if the person doesn’t have caller ID, it wouldn’t matter. Phone companies keep logs of all calls incoming and outgoing in their systems for billing purposes. The info would have have to have been turned over to investigators. Chances are they have it. You can still block number using *67 or use a burner phone or at the time, a phone booth which would make it harder to track.

I’m really shocked this hasn’t been solved yet. Someone has to know something and isn’t talking yet? Everywhere else I’ve read before coming here suggests there was a mistress and that Alfredo was a “lady’s man”. That being the case, wouldn’t a scorned woman talk just to burn him. If not, she should. If he cheated once, he’s going to do it again. Stop protecting him. He isn’t a prize.

I do believe that the woman that called about the baby shower item from Alfredo's work is involved. Most likely a mistress of his. He would of been upfront about his cheating and name whohe was sleeping with , this case probably been solved by now. Did the police ever check the envelope that the card and the type letter came in. For DNA Salvia and fingerprints?

I've seen the theory presented that Alfredo was something like Scott Peterson, and that he did not want the responsibility of being a father and wanted to continue to live the lifestyle of a single ladies man...but that wouldn't account for Cecilia's son, Rene. The segment says they dated for two years before getting married. Granted, Rene was not Alfredo's son, but Rene was still going to be a presence in his life.

However, the timing of her disappearance is telling, IMO. Alfredo leaves to go to work at 2:30 p.m. on the day of her disappearance. Then he calls the apartment they lived in at 5:00 p.m. IMO, this was to see whoever he was working in conjunction with had carried through with their plan. I know people react differently in various different ways, but if I came home and found my wife and son missing, with not so much as a toothbrush taken, I wouldn't think they took off to "cool off for a few days". The distance (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/15701+Sherman+Way,+Van+Nuys,+CA/20801+Lassen+St,+Chatsworth,+CA+91311/@34.2398086,-118.5663162,13z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c2970565f6076f:0xe31d3206752b9858!2m2!1d-118.4776605!2d34.2018468!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c29ca3c9374003:0xe517c4ab1d962720!2m2!1d-118.5868522!2d34.2505464!3e0) from where they lived to where the letter Alfredo received purporting to be written by Cecilia, was not that far at all. The only wrench in my theory of Alfredo's involvement is that the mysterious female caller told Cecilia to keep their meeting a secret. But I still can't shake the indifference of Alfredo.

I've seen the theory presented that Alfredo was something like Scott Peterson, and that he did not want the responsibility of being a father and wanted to continue to live the lifestyle of a single ladies man...but that wouldn't account for Cecilia's son, Rene. The segment says they dated for two years before getting married. Granted, Rene was not Alfredo's son, but Rene was still going to be a presence in his life.

However, the timing of her disappearance is telling, IMO. Alfredo leaves to go to work at 2:30 p.m. on the day of her disappearance. Then he calls the apartment they lived in at 5:00 p.m. IMO, this was to see whoever he was working in conjunction with had carried through with their plan. I know people react differently in various different ways, but if I came home and found my wife and son missing, with not so much as a toothbrush taken, I wouldn't think they took off to "cool off for a few days". The distance (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/15701+Sherman+Way,+Van+Nuys,+CA/20801+Lassen+St,+Chatsworth,+CA+91311/@34.2398086,-118.5663162,13z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c2970565f6076f:0xe31d3206752b9858!2m2!1d-118.4776605!2d34.2018468!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c29ca3c9374003:0xe517c4ab1d962720!2m2!1d-118.5868522!2d34.2505464!3e0) from where they lived to where the letter Alfredo received purporting to be written by Cecilia, was not that far at all. The only wrench in my theory of Alfredo's involvement is that the mysterious female caller told Cecilia to keep their meeting a secret. But I still can't shake the indifference of Alfredo.
Why I don't think he actually killed her because of mysterious female caller. I seen a story like this where a mistress killed the pregnant wife. The police thought it was the husband. Until his story checked out. So they asked him who would want your pregnant wife killed, are you sleeping with anyone. He finally admitted a told her name and they started checking on her. She his mistress was the one who murdered his pregnant wife. Things like that so happen. I think if Alfredo was more forthcoming in what he was doing like cheating and name names, I believe the case would of been solved.

No doubt having the caller ID would have helped - maybe she wouldn’t have answered the phone not recognizing the number.

I think these Ancestry websites doing the DNA genetic testing is eventually going to do everyone in on crimes such as this. We just have to sit back and wait for an eager investigator to start digging. I really hope this one gets solved. It’s really incredibly scummy to kill an unborn child.

I am not sure what to make of this one. Alfredo certainly isn't like other husbands. He does seem genuine, there isn't a life insurance he is capitalizing on here, there isn't another woman at the time, and there wasn't an unhappy marriage. One thing that does help Alfredo in this case is the woman wanting to see Cecilia on the 20th, the day she went missing. That is a fantastic coincidence.

Near my hometown about 10 years ago there was a man selling his truck. He puts the add on the internet and late at night two shady looking guys show up at his place wanting a test drive. This guy's wife and I believe his brother were at his house and they both saw the faces of these guys. Anyway, it is about 11pm, and he wants to sell the truck so he decides to let these guys take a test drive. He ends up getting killed by them and thrown into a woodchipper. There were bones found in the woodchipper and it all eventually tied back to these two guys. Who are both in prison now.

But that's the point I am making, these things can happen. A woman wouldn't suspect another woman inviting her to get some baby things. I just think Rene was along for the ride and he ended up as an unfortunate collateral damage similar to Dub Wackerhagen's son as well as Wendy Camp's two relatives that came along as well. We've seen this happen where they end up killing the kids with them. Not every murderer has enough of a heart to leave the child unharmed like Mike Reimer's daughter.

I actually get why he called the house at 5pm. His wife is 8.5 months pregnant. You are in the territory of your water breaking. Or getting prematurely induced. At this moment two weeks prior to a baby coming anything can happen. He is about to be a 1st time father, so this is all new to him. Or like what was already mentioned he calls the apartment and when she doesn't pick up he knows the plan is done (the abductor would take them). That is possible, but why? What possesses him to do this?

The one thing I don't like is that he seemed non-chalant about her missing. Maybe he didn't report it as quick as I would have. But he did give that friend a shout in the middle of the night. I don't know what to make of it, but I think they are both dead either way, and if Alfredo was in on it he's managed to hide it. I think it is possible the baby is alive though, and maybe a good chance as well if that mystery woman was looking for a baby.

I think there is a very good chance the baby is alive and might show up on Ancestry or some other similar site one day.

Bumping this thread up. I also got a strange vibe from this guy. I don't necessarily believe he was involved, but he says that he would "be screaming at the guy I thought was with my wife" and that Alfredo was "unusually calm." I think at this point, being concerned but not panicking would have been normal. Cecilia had only been gone for a few hours at this point, not being there when Alfredo returned from work. It's natural that the husband would call friends and ask about her whereabouts, but just because the guy wasn't ranting and raving doesn't mean that he's guilty. And how "unusually calm" can he have been calling in the middle of the night?

Yo, he's not talking about "panicking", he's talking about a husband thinking there was something going on between his wife and another man. I don't know what he literally said, but in the segment Alfredo doesn't ask about his wife's whereabouts, he told him to put her on the phone because he knew she was there.

There is no reason to be calm at all if your pregnant wife has still not come home in the middle of the night. There is nothing strange about noting that he was very calm considering the situation.

Yes! I thought the same thing. Any time someone leaves a weird, type-written letter like that (especially back then) it looks suspicious as hell. I had the exact same thought that it seems like Pam Page leaving her goodbye letter. Pretty easy to make it say whatever you want when there is no handwriting to compare.

I also agree with you that he is involved with her disappearance (either planning or knowledge of the crime) but I'm not convinced he did the deed. He strikes me as the type who wouldn't have the courage to do this but would be more than willing to cover it up. I think you're correct that the lover is most likely the true perp with Alfredo as an accomplice, before or after the crime.


I'm not sure about this one (haven't seen the segment) but I think it could go either way--kidnapping or the husband being involved.

We've seen in UM multiple times where someone "disappears" and leaves a note that doesn't look right. Beverly McGowan's case comes to mind.

No doubt having the caller ID would have helped - maybe she wouldn’t have answered the phone not recognizing the number.

I think these Ancestry websites doing the DNA genetic testing is eventually going to do everyone in on crimes such as this. We just have to sit back and wait for an eager investigator to start digging. I really hope this one gets solved. It’s really incredibly scummy to kill an unborn child.

Nobody had caller ID back in 1994 when she disappeared. Damn. That was 31 years ago! :eek:

Anyway, it didn’t exist. Everyone the world over just accepted the fact you didn’t know who was going to be on the other end when you answered. We didn’t live in fear of that reality either.

I kind of don’t discount the possibility that she did run off with someone else. Alfredo was having his fun and maybe she was too. She was from Salvador, so going to Honduras would not have been a big deal. It kind of would have been like going back home for her, except her new man was a doctor. If shes alive today, she’d be 64 and her baby would be 31.

Or maybe Rene’s biological father had something to do with it.

If I had a great marriage and left as my wife was writing thank you cards for a baby shower and then came home and found a greeting card saying goodbye and my wife's wedding rings in her car and then found that her toothbrush, clothing, etc. was still at our house, I would have immediately called the police and knew that something was wrong. I wouldn't just have accepted that she left me.

As for the mystery woman who called Cecilia a "few weeks before" her disappearance and offered to meet up with her and give her a gift, she had to have given a name of an actual coworker of Alfredo's because the UM segment says that the police were able to determine that the "call had not been made by Alfredo's coworker". So this had to have been someone intimately involved with Alfredo somehow, because how else would they know the name of his coworker?

this case seems like one of those weird ladies who killed a pregnant woman in order to get a baby! That is what I think happened. just the unusual behavior that "this must be kept a secret" + "baby shower gift"??? But this case would be even worse and different as the lady would need to kill Cecilia's son! I can still see that happening as he is an unwanted witness... Perhaps Cecilia brought her son along and the lady did not expect another kid to be dragged along.

this case seems like one of those weird ladies who killed a pregnant woman in order to get a baby! That is what I think happened. just the unusual behavior that "this must be kept a secret" + "baby shower gift"??? But this case would be even worse and different as the lady would need to kill Cecilia's son! I can still see that happening as he is an unwanted witness... Perhaps Cecilia brought her son along and the lady did not expect another kid to be dragged along.

This has always been at the top of my list as to the probabilities of what happened to Cecelia and Rene. The authorities really need to grill Alfredo again or find out who else would have had a motive.

I do not think the lady would have been someone that he knew very well. Otherwise he could later think - "hey, this female friend of mine always wanted a baby and she too is missing, perhaps she stole Cecillia's baby?!"

Nobody had caller ID back in 1994 when she disappeared. Damn. That was 31 years ago! :eek:



Most places in North America had caller ID by 1994 (article from February 1990):

"The service, known as Caller ID, was pioneered by New Jersey Bell in 1987. It was made available to customers in New Jersey in December 1988 and is now spreading throughout the country."

source: https://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/11/nyregion/caller-id-stirs-debate-on-phone-privacy.html#:~:text=The%20service%2C%20known%20as%20Caller,now%20spreading%20throughout%20the%20country.

Not most places. We lived in the country at that time. We had just gotten our first private phone line after always being on a party line. It would be several more years before caller ID would be available to us.

Not most places. We lived in the country at that time. We had just gotten our first private phone line after always being on a party line. It would be several more years before caller ID would be available to us.

Most places in North America. You just happened to be in the minority of places without caller ID.

Most places in North America had caller ID by 1994 (article from February 1990):

"The service, known as Caller ID, was pioneered by New Jersey Bell in 1987. It was made available to customers in New Jersey in December 1988 and is now spreading throughout the country."

source: https://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/11/nyregion/caller-id-stirs-debate-on-phone-privacy.html#:~:text=The%20service%2C%20known%20as%20Caller,now%20spreading%20throughout%20the%20country.

I grew up in the 90's. Most people didn't have it. Not because it wasn't offered, but because it was too expensive.

Most places in North America. You just happened to be in the minority of places without caller ID.

There were lots of rural areas all over the US, not just where I lived.

Alfredo doesn't seem terribly bright from the interview I doubt he could hatch a plan to have Cecillia & Rene removed from existence.

If Alfredo was involved in any way with the disappearance of his wife and stepson, there would have been plenty of hard evidence that could be found.

The detectives would have looked into both Cecelia and Alfredo’s activities on the last day she was seen by anyone, to corroborate the timeframes. They would have talked with Alfredo’s coworkers to make sure he wasn’t absent for any extended periods of time during shift. If he caused the disappearance, he would have had to cover it up to and with LA’s traffic being as bad as it is, hiding the bodies in a remote spot would have taken hours of absence. There was no indication he had done that. The police also should have checked if her passport was still in the house, or if there was any evidence she had left the country at any point, even if it was after she had the baby.

With Cecelia being that close to her due date, she probably left in a car with someone currently unidentified, perhaps her extramarital lover (if she had one). The guy may have promised to take them out of the country sometime after the baby was born, but if she met with foul play then this unknown person would have had plenty of time to dispose of the bodies in the remote desert.

I just saw this case and was wondering what everyone else thought about it. Cecilia was 8 1/2 months pregnant when she and her son Rene went missing in 1994. According to her husband he saw the two of them before he left for work and when he returned home they were gone. The only things left were a Goodbye card and her wedding rings in their jeep.

Several months before she went missing Cecilia reportedly got a call from a woman who claimed to have a picture showing her husband kissing another woman. The same woman called again months later offering to show her baby furniture on the day she went missing.

Something about the husband doesn't sit well with me. He seemed sincere in some parts but rather unworried in other parts. But, I was also working with the theory Cecilia was being stalked by a woman who wanted her baby. It's possible, but pretty slim. The other idea is she was taken out of the picture by someone who was having an affair with her husband.

I don't understand the last one though. If someone did do that, why? Why not just show her the evidence and let Cecilia leave her husband? I'm going to assume Cecilia told others about the calls and this isn't just coming from her husband.

Personally, I think they are dead and I'm not buying it that she took her son and left for Honduras. I would like to know if they could lift prints from the second envelope that was mailed to the husband days after she went missing, or if the calls could ever be traced.

Watching him either he killed them because he didn't want to have the kid/didn't want to be with her anymore or a woman involved with him took them out and he is covering for her. Maybe the mistress' family took care of it for her. If the wife left them, she would have contacted her family by now.

Caller ID officially launched for home phones in California on July 8, 1996. While other states adopted the technology in the late 1980s, California's rollout was significantly delayed by the California Public Utilities Commission (PUC) due to strict privacy regulations and debate over unlisted numbers.

If she left the country, she wasn't driving to Honduras. They could just check all international flights or just flights to Honduras to see if she is in the log. They could have taken her photograph to show to all the airports if she was seen. She did not go to Honduras. It's fairly obvious she was murdered and who the hell types a Dear John letter?