it used to be that the overall forum consensus was that Jule was pretty guilty, but the tide seems to be turning pretty heavily toward the idea that Jule could potentially be innocent. And on that note, I thought it was important to re-examine this case to come up with things, some of which haven't been discussed here before, that may indicate that Jule might be innocent.

1. One issue that has always nagged was the apparent lack of motive. Jule had a new job in a new state and a new woman, so there doesn't seem to be any obvious motive. The best that I could come up with was that Jule wanted Dottie to not be able to get along without him, and didn't like that Dottie was going to be financially well off and meeting new people, new friends. That's the best I could come up with and I'm not really comfortable with it.

2. Jule says "it was hell having her disappear the way she did." This can be taken a couple different ways. It could mean that Jule didn't like having her disappear and being forced to answer alot of police questions and being put under a microscope, but it could also mean that Jule did have a little concern left for her well-being.

3. Granted, Jule says it was hell living with her and things have been pretty good without her. But it should be noted that he never wishes harm on her. He really seems to be indifferent to the whole situation.

4. the segment is pretty vague. I would like to know if:
a. it can be confirmed that Dottie bought a bus ticket
b. anyone remembers seeing her on the train, whether it be boarding, exiting, or being a passenger on the train.
c. was it ever confirmed that Dottie did have plans to visit the friend?

If any one of those can be confirmed, then i think that swings heavily away from Jule being responsible. However, Dottie was very shy and probably wouldn't have conversed with anyone on the train, so if she was in fact on there, it is very possible nobody can recall seeing her on there.

5. segment says she took an overnight bag, and I can't recall, but perhaps a piece of luggage. I'm curious to know if that was missing from the house, and if any items that could have been put in those bags were. If they were, it could indicate that Dottie did in fact plan on visiting a friend, and again, would seem to indicate Jule's innocence.

that's what I have, any additional thoughts?

OMG Jule was hilarious. I watched this the other day and everyone in the room thought he was guilty. I think Jule wanted toa move and without his wife and didnt want to be bothered. The odds that she is alive are slim to none. Especially when her car showed up parked next to his at his job!!!

The car was not parked next to his job. It was parked next to his car at the BART station.

The segment certainly presents evidence of why Dottie would want to leave Jule and facts that suggest she could have done so, although this theory is weakened, somewhat, by her lack of communication with family or friends.

Jule's candor re: the relationship is unusual for UM. He didn't portray himself as the grieving spouse at all. It's hard to know if this is a sign of his innocence or just arrogance. If he did do it, I suspect he accidentally killed her in an argument, so there wouldn't be motive in the classic sense.

I agree with you, wiseguy, that a key point is any corroboration that Dottie boarded the BART train. If she did, I am inclined to believe Jule is innocent; however, there does not appear any corroboration. An overnight bag is, IMO, immaterial. Jule could have just as easily packed one himself and disposed of it with Dottie's body.

The whole problem with this case is the lack of any third-party evidence. We don't know when Dottie was last seen alive, we don't know Jule's confirmed locations, we have no witnesses that Jule dropped Dottie off or how Dottie's car got to the BART station.

Well, looking at it, I will say there is insufficient legally to convict or even charge Jule Caylor with murder. Yes there is enough to generate suspicion towards Jule Caylor but that is about all. It is hard to charge him with a murder when there is physical evidence that a murder even occurred. I also think that if Jule did kill Dottie that it was not pre-meditated.

I mean, to me, he seemed kind of indifferent to her one way or the other, while he did not seem sorry that she was gone, I cannot imagine him getting wrapped around her enough to want to off her. In fact, he seemed like he was rather pleased with the idea of a divorce and while it was very obvious he did not miss her, it was also obvious that he really did not hate her, just that he was not in love with her and did not want to be with her anymore.

There are some disturbing questions here though. First off, while Jule 'found' her car next to his at the BART station, I believe he never notified the Concord Police that he suspected his wife was missing. In fact, it was not until at least 5 days after Dottie was last seen before her disappearance was reported to the Concord Police. It was also not reported to the Concord Police by Jule but by the BART Police. Now, I believe Jule was the one that reported that his wife had disappeared but he reported it to the BART Police about her car being next to his car. Now this was over the course of I believe three days that the stuff with the note and the cars happened. Then Jule reported this to the BART Police and I am guessing told them or they told him to file a missing person report with the Concord Police Department. However I imagine they expected to hear back from Concord and when they did not, finally notified them, 5 days after Jule had made the report to them. So it sounds like it was 7 or 8 days after Dottie disappeared before it was finally reported to the Concord Police.

Just saw the segment again and the whole thing frustrates me. I am leaning on the side of Jule being innocent. But for the life of me I cannot explain why. He might just flat out always have that demeanour of being cool, calm and collected. That could just be another day at the office for him.

The thing is why would Jule kill Dottie if he is moving to a new city, new job anyways? She apparently didn't want to follow him and if you wanted to get rid of someone that's the way to do it, move away from them. All the pieces were in place for a divorce. Why complicate things?

Also that separate bank account that Dottie had is suspicious. I wonder if the money was ever taken out of that account. There are a lot of signs that point to her starting a new life. Maybe she wasn't close to her family, all we saw was her sister. If she had a bad marriage that eliminates caring about seeing her husband again. She had no kids, and other than that support group no friends seemingly.

Why would Jule kill her? I have never heard a good reason

Just saw the segment again and the whole thing frustrates me. I am leaning on the side of Jule being innocent. But for the life of me I cannot explain why. He might just flat out always have that demeanour of being cool, calm and collected. That could just be another day at the office for him.

The thing is why would Jule kill Dottie if he is moving to a new city, new job anyways? She apparently didn't want to follow him and if you wanted to get rid of someone that's the way to do it, move away from them. All the pieces were in place for a divorce. Why complicate things?

Also that separate bank account that Dottie had is suspicious. I wonder if the money was ever taken out of that account. There are a lot of signs that point to her starting a new life. Maybe she wasn't close to her family, all we saw was her sister. If she had a bad marriage that eliminates caring about seeing her husband again. She had no kids, and other than that support group no friends seemingly.

Why would Jule kill her? I have never heard a good reason

If Jule killed her, I would theorize that Jule and Dottie got into an argument (as they were wont to do), it escalated into physical violence, and she was killed by accident. He describes the prior incident where she was threating him with scissors or something and he hit her with the typing stand, so it's not inconceivable that he hit her again; she could have fallen and hit her head, etc., etc. I doubt he ever planned to kill her, but anytime you have two people fighting, things can get out of hand.

If he did kill her, I'd have to think he's a total sociopath, as he seemed to lack any guilt or emotion about her disappearance.

And kadrmas, I have to agree and take it further, there's not even a scintilla of evidence to charge Jule, let alone convict. If he did kill her, he basically committed the perfect crime.

I think what happened is they got into an argument & things went too far & she died.

His story just does not make sense IMO. If she decided to just up & leave or go somewhere overnight, few days, I am pretty sure she would have taken her purse. According to the group of people she associated with, she felt safe as along as she had her purse. Even if she did go off somewhere & met with fowl play, what are the odds that her purse would be found in her car of all places??? When according to Jule he drove her to the station & dropped her off. If that is the case, you have to ask yourself how did her car end up at that station? I believe she also had amount of money that she left behind. If she was gonna go off & just disappear, I am sure she would have taken that money with her. Given her condition, I do not think she was ready to just go off & start a new life or even go for a few days to visit someone. She was just starting to feel comfortable going to certain places. It appeared to me she was quite close to this group she was associating with & I am sure that if she was gonna go visit someone or start a new life for herself, she would have told at least 1 person from that group.

Sad thing is, I don't think we will ever find out where Dottie is.

also:

6. when you think about it, the theory of Dottie starting a new life isn't all that far-fetched. By accounts, she was meeting new friends and new men. It is entirely possible that she met a man who was considerably wealthy and went off to be with him. That would explain why all of her belongings and the money were left behind. Perhaps those were trivial to her now. Plus, someone could recognize her if she wore the same clothes.

7. Dottie's weight tended to fluctuate, but she is depicted in the segment as being of a considerable weight. Which raises the possibility of would Jule need assistance in moving the body? If Jule is guilty, does anyone else know about this?

8. Dottie disappeared on one of Jule's last days in San Fran. Now, when people are getting ready to move, they are generally very busy. They have to pack, close accounts in the area, do any unfinished business in the area, etc. Would Jule really have the time necessary it would take to dispose of Dottie's body (to the point that, 25 years later, it still hasn't been found), clean up any potential blood, mess, and hide any potential murder weapon, and do all of these things in his final hours in San Fran? Would he really have the time do this? If not, again the possibility of him having an accomplice surfaces because if he did it, he might need somebody to assist him so that he leaves San Fran according to schedule.

9. it should be noted that Dottie was doing alot of things secretly around the time of her disapperance: opening secret accounts, living a secret existence. I think it's very possible she could have staged a secret disappearance.

People talk about motive, but my god I've read about cases of people killing their spouse over all kinds of things. I think Jule just was tired or dottie or maybe they got in a fight. her purse was in her car right? odd. The reason for killing anyone is just a human mind attempting to understan

I just for the life of me cant see dottie just moving and not contacting her friends all these years. It does happen, but not as often as someone killing their wife.

Just saw the segment again and the whole thing frustrates me. I am leaning on the side of Jule being innocent. But for the life of me I cannot explain why. He might just flat out always have that demeanour of being cool, calm and collected. That could just be another day at the office for him.


I just watched the segment tonight and while Jule didn't come off as sympathetic or grief stricken he might be a straight forward guy who doesn't show emotion.

I'm on the fence with Jule. The UM segment didn't paint him in a good light. I had my doubts originally, but now I think, who knows.

One thing that bugs me, and always bugs me when I watch TV, is listening to people who talk scripted, like a robot. The friend filmed in the park had a scripted tone to her voice.

10. Jule stated in the segment that he wasn't surprised when he was considered a suspect, because naturally when someone disappears, people around them are considered. Now the question I have is why would Jule, who is about to leave for another state and be rid of Dottie, kill her in his final days in California? He is so close to being rid of her. If he put up with her for 12 years, couldn't he have withstood a few more days?

Admittedly, my own opinion is shifting towards uncertain on this case.

10. Jule stated in the segment that he wasn't surprised when he was considered a suspect, because naturally when someone disappears, people around them are considered. Now the question I have is why would Jule, who is about to leave for another state and be rid of Dottie, kill her in his final days in California? He is so close to being rid of her. If he put up with her for 12 years, couldn't he have withstood a few more days?

Admittedly, my own opinion is shifting towards uncertain on this case.

That is a good point. I still think that they got into some kind of argument & things went too far.

That is a good point. I still think that they got into some kind of argument & things went too far.

thanks. to expand on my point, Jule obviously knew that he would be considered as a suspect, so how is that Jule couldn't put up with Dottie for a few more days, and instead invited suspicion for the rest of his lifetime. He is still suspected even to this day, it recently dissuaded him for running for Utah Congress.

Why has the tide started to turn? Did I miss a new development or something?

I always assumed he was guilty and that the posts confirmed this. I do agree that Jules did not say the right things if he was trying to pretend to be innocent and a grieving husband. Then again, I think that his arrogance was just showing through, as if to say: "You'll never find her and you'll never figure out what happened."

I also remember reading that Jules assaulted another girlfriend of his after this case faded away and he started a new life. Am I totally wrong? I'll try to dig up the info, but I could have sworn that he did something else that made him look even more guilty.

BTW, when people say, "why would he bother killing her if he was leaving anyway, and she didn't want to stay with him," I think it comes down to alimony/financial loss he might have by getting divorced, and also control.

When I was young (as in, when this first aired), I was sure he did it. Of course, my father's personality was (and probably still is!) pretty close to Jule's.

Now, I'm not so sure either. I would be surprised if she turned up alive, but instead of Jule killing her...why couldn't someone else do it and make an effort to frame him?

With the way he talked, I wonder what kept him from just divorcing her and moving on? Then again, people get so used to a certain way of life, they don't realize things could be different until something major happens - like a spouse disappearing.

The man might be guilty, but the way he comes across in the segment to me as someone who is doing what one feels they should for another human being - making appearances and somewhat of an effort to find out what happened. Its just definitely not what you expect a loving husband to do/say.

Also, how do we really know Dottie was leaving and it isnt something Jule just fabricated? Maybe she was unhappy sure, but how many cases do we see that some husband has made up a fake letter or packed a suitecase for their so called fleeing spouse?

I do not believe Dottie moved on. No way, nope.

I do still think Jule killed Dottie. Dottie was in a fragile mental state and I'm not sure she would have had the ability to leave and start a new life for herself. She didn't bring her purse and since Jule wanted out of the marriage as well she wouldn't have had any reason to change her name and assume a new identity. I always thought the fact that clearly Jule and Dottie had no marriage left yet he leaves her notes on her abandoned car "professing his love for her" was calculated on his part. It made him appear like he missed her when in reality if someone whom you seem to practically despise and whom you wanted to divorce left....would you leave a note asking them to come back and telling them you loved them? Doesn't seem likely. With Jule's occupation it would have been very easy for him to dispose of the body in the forest where no one would find it. That seems more likely to me because if Dottie wanted to leave Jule she could have easily done it without going through all this drama.

I posted this in another thread. I do think Dottie was murdered but her remains will never be found and here's why...

Jule caylor was an entomologist (he studied insects, worms, and other small animals) for the National Park Service. He had access to areas of National parks that the general public would never see. All Jule had to do was kill Dottie, put her body in his vehicle (it would be easy to hide a body amidst work tools for a short period of time, especially if he had a work vehicle which would have been a 4WD SUV -type to allow navigation across rugged terrain and drive her to one of these locations). It would also be very easy for him to explain why he would be in a remote location of a park (for work). With his job, he would have little overhead or direct supervision which would again allow him plenty of time to dispose of a body. Jule would not even have to bury Dottie's body. A dead body left in the woods will last about 3 days tops before it is entirely consumed by animals. Jule is a smart man and disposing of Dottie's body in this manner would make it almost impossible to ever recover a body. Also to conduct a search of an entire National Park would be an impossible task. This has always been my theory on Dottie's disappearance.

I do still think Jule killed Dottie. Dottie was in a fragile mental state and I'm not sure she would have had the ability to leave and start a new life for herself. She didn't bring her purse and since Jule wanted out of the marriage as well she wouldn't have had any reason to change her name and assume a new identity. I always thought the fact that clearly Jule and Dottie had no marriage left yet he leaves her notes on her abandoned car "professing his love for her" was calculated on his part. It made him appear like he missed her when in reality if someone whom you seem to practically despise and whom you wanted to divorce left....would you leave a note asking them to come back and telling them you loved them? Doesn't seem likely. With Jule's occupation it would have been very easy for him to dispose of the body in the forest where no one would find it. That seems more likely to me because if Dottie wanted to leave Jule she could have easily done it without going through all this drama.


Stealing my thunder, CD? The last three sentences of your post agree with my long-standing belief on this case. I'm just kidding! I'm not pompous enough to think that only I have that idea about Jule dumping the body in a National Park. I posted these sentiments a while back on another thread. Jule Caylor is not a dumb man and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. I don't doubt for a minute that he would be shrewd enough to concoct an elaborate (semi-elaborate) scheme to appear that he actually missed his wife. The one thing about this case that always seemed peculiar is the fact that Dottie feared large crowd and the unknown. Then where on earth did she ever get the courage to hop a BART train on her own? It doesn't make sense. In teh Dale Kerstetter segment, one detective said of Dale "...he's saying I'm taking your platinum and there isn't anything you can do about it." While I have my own theories on Kerstetter (posted in another thread), the smugness of Caylor's UM interview (or at least the parts they showed, because those interviews are cut for content) was directly saying "I killed my wife and there's not a darn thing you can do about it."

11. I read that Dottie frequently liked to be dropped off at the BART station - not to ride it, but rather she liked to meet people there. This could make Jule seem less likely guilty because it doesn't have to be established that she was taking the train to go somewhere because she frequently liked to meet people there.

12. I wanted to also add that Jule was in the dark about Dottie's activities during the last year of their being together. If she kept everything else secret from him, why not her disappearance.

11. I read that Dottie frequently liked to be dropped off at the BART station - not to ride it, but rather she liked to meet people there. This could make Jule seem less likely guilty because it doesn't have to be established that she was taking the train to go somewhere because she frequently liked to meet people there.

12. I wanted to also add that Jule was in the dark about Dottie's activities during the last year of their being together. If she kept everything else secret from him, why not her disappearance.

And that's the thing. I know Jule is unpopular around here, but outside of circumstantial evidence and the lax emotions about him what exactly proves that he is guilty? Because he has a job hat gives him access to the National Parks? Hey look even if her body was disposed in the forest her bones would still be there. You'd think somebody by accident would stumble upon them hiking or something. I mean a skull would not be hard to spot.

Plus there are no witnesses to anything. Paul Pollis has a neighbour witnessing something amiss. Not Jule. You think someone would see something? And you'd think the cops would have kept an extra eye on Jule and would notice if he was acting suspicious. In the segment no one says a bad thing about the guy. No one comes up with a theory. No one has any proof. Nothing.

And lastly, why in the world would you tell people that your missing wife's car was parked next to yours? Why set yourself up like that if you killed her? You'd think it would be easy to have someone dispose of the car two or three hours away. This always irked me. I have just always thought that Dottie DID go out on her own, was in a bad state of mind and someone took advantage of her. End of story. It's happened before.

What I find funny is that although people are really quick to pounce on Jule and his behavior and how he's totally unlikeable and that is a reason for him to dissapear but they do not acknowledge certain type of behavior from Dottie. She didn't seem to be a prize either and stuff like hanging out in the BART stations, having physical fights with Jule and giving as much as she took and having different mailboxes and stuff like that, it all seems that she was also very strange. While it's not out of it that a person like Jule would do something like what people think they did to Dottie, it's not like it a crazy idea that she would dissapear or that she would meet with foul play. I would think both theories have as much probability of happening.

Plus there are no witnesses to anything. Paul Pollis has a neighbour witnessing something amiss. Not Jule. You think someone would see something? And you'd think the cops would have kept an extra eye on Jule and would notice if he was acting suspicious. In the segment no one says a bad thing about the guy. No one comes up with a theory. No one has any proof. Nothing.

that's a good point. I read that while Jule and Dottie were known for having loud arguments, none of the neighbors reported any around the time Dottie went missing. It's logical to assume that if Jule murdered Dottie, there would have been a fight and the neighbors would have heard it.

Yes I agree rhuznam. I think basically looking at this and the more I have thought about it, this case, even if Jule was convicted, I think would get overturned by a higher court and a judgement of acquittal entered. I think looking at it, the evidence or lack thereof is insufficient to even prove a homicide occurred at all or to even prove that Dottie is dead, let alone that Jule was the one responsible for the death.

Basically, I think that people have a tendency to believe in his guilt, mostly because they do not like him personally. I mean I will admit, Jule comes off as a guy that is hard to like. However I think people have a tendency to believe in someone's guilt simply because they do not happen to like them personally or because they do not come off good. I mean that is more common in American society and at trials than I like to admit. In fact, it is pretty disturbing to me, but it is very obvious that people have been convicted not off of the facts but because the jurors did not happen to like the defendant.

In terms of Dottie, yes, she did all of the things alleged, she had her own secret bank account, secret mailboxes, etc. I mean clearly she was planning to do something or at least thought she was going to do something. However again, the reason why this is not brought up more is because of the way American society is. You cannot attack or bring anything negative up against a 'victim' or a person that is perceived to be a victim. If you try it, it backfires on you every time. I mean there are cases where victims are not even really victims, but if you try to hold them accountable, the prosecution and the public smears you as being anti victim.

Websleuths registration is giving me problems and nothing new on zodiackiller.com.

Might as well head back here.;)

Wow, a huge groundswell of support in favor of Jule Caylor's innocence???:eek:

My thoughts..

1.The thing that always struck me on this case was that Dottie had a debilitating mental illness in agoraphobia. You;d think she would have a few more practice runs before deciding to live on her own. A relapse would set her back months. I assume she was still taking therapy and medication from her psychologist. Did she just up and find another psychologist. Is the psychologist privy to Dotties disappearance.

2. It's important to keep in mind that Dottie is a runaway not a fugitive. She is ultimately trying to get away from her husband and make sure he never reaches her. She is not necessarily trying to buck the law or escape authorities. Considering Jule Caylor didn;t seem all that interested in pursuing her, it's puzzling that Dottie wouldn't try to contact family,friends and others and let them know she is okay?

3. I'm not sure that Dottie could pull off creating a whole new life for herself without some assistance? Did her family or friends help her? Is there a boyfriend she met that took her in? Why has this person not been identified.

4. I also find it hard to imagine that Dottie's social security number hasn;t come on the grid at some point. There are certainly ways to do so, but would Dottie necessarily know how to do such things and be disciplined not to? She is not a smuggler or career criminal, she is a a houswife.





that's a good point. I read that while Jule and Dottie were known for having loud arguments, none of the neighbors reported any around the time Dottie went missing. It's logical to assume that if Jule murdered Dottie, there would have been a fight and the neighbors would have heard it.

Maybe, maybe not....

1. Dottie may have been killed before she they had a chance to raise there voices and cause commotion. It could have been a slow simmering argument that led to Jule striking her first and quickly.

2. Do they have a basement? (they are rare in the Bay Area) The attack may have occurred elsewhere away from the home.

3. It;s possible there came a point where the arguments were so common place that nobody bothered to notice or care.

And lastly, why in the world would you tell people that your missing wife's car was parked next to yours? Why set yourself up like that if you killed her? You'd think it would be easy to have someone dispose of the car two or three hours away.

1. Why not? It's not like anyone was going to find her body. Jules was probably banking on her body never being found. With that anything else like the car is negligible.

2. Jules does have other things to do than dispose of the car...like disposing of Dottie.:eek: Jules may have not had the opportunity to do anything else.

3. One way to get cops to focus off of you is to be honest and bring forth details without being prompted. Sadly this does work, cops do become less suspicious of criminals that bring forth details.

4. Jules may have been so cheap that he wanted to sell the car rather than lose money in disposing of it. :rolleyes:

11. I read that Dottie frequently liked to be dropped off at the BART station - not to ride it, but rather she liked to meet people there. This could make Jule seem less likely guilty because it doesn't have to be established that she was taking the train to go somewhere because she frequently liked to meet people there.

I was always under the impression that this was part of her therapy for agoraphobia. Don;t they do the same thing with people who are afraid to fly? They take them to the airport and have them hang around the lobby, talk to other passangers, flight attendants. Isn;t this all part of a way of alleaving their fear and making the experience of taking a flight seem a normal and natural event.

I imagine this was the same thing been done to get Dottie to get used to taking a train and going out in the world.

My gut instinct tells me that we are looking for a corpse...that Dottie met with foul play.

The questions is ...who did it...
1. Jule Caylor?
2. an aquaintance of Dottie. (boyfriend, girlfriend, support sponsor...)
3. A stranger (psycopath, rapist, satanic cultist...etc..)

Jules Caylor is innocent until proven guilty..but he has by no means been cleared of murder. He rightfully deserves to be the number one suspect in this case.

I don;t think it's that crazy that Dottie ran into the wrong person on the train station. If she was trying to be more friendly to people and more outgoing...someone could have used that to his advantage.

The problem with Jules Caylor's interview on UM is that he seems to have the most unemotional demeanor I've ever seen!!!:eek:

It almost borders on sociopathic!

I would have been really interested if that was the same demeanor he had days before Dottie disappeared.

This ultimately is not evidence against Jules..for all we know that might just be his demeanor in general. Some people are naturally stoic.

I think what was more important is his words. Jules words give the impression that he does not seem to care about Dotie's fate and that he could care less whether she is found chopped up or if she appeared on his doorstep.

The interview happened some time after the original event so Jule may have simply have already dealt with the emotions of the moment and come to whatever grief he may have incurred.

Stick with us Mastermind! Welcome back :)

I'm still somewhat confused why the tide is turning in terms of Jules' guilt. I assume that nothing new has happened right?

And what about the issue I posted earlier? Am I totally off in remembering something about Jules shooting another girlfriend, or harming another girlfriend? This would have happened more recently?

Just wondering. That would show a patter of violent behavior.

I never heard of Jule harming another girlfriend. A woman he was involved with dumped him after she found out about his wife's disappearance. I think you are thinking of Stephen Marfeo whose wife 'disappeared'. 9 years after her disappearance, Marfeo went nuts and killed his ex-girlfriend who had dumped him for another guy. He shot and killed her and also shot the boyfriend although the boyfriend survived. Marfeo then went on the run, drove into Connecticut and shot himself.

Actually, I do not think Jule is a sociopath. That is a word that is so overused. Sociopaths tend to be very good actors. Thus if Jule was a sociopath he would be more likely to ball his eyes out and acted all concerned and make you believe it even though he was lying. That is what a sociopath would do. I mean yes there is enough to generate suspicion towards Jule but the key word there is suspicion. There certainly is no where near the amount of evidence for a conviction. Like I said, even if Jule were convicted, it would probably be overturned on appeal as legally insufficient evidence to sustain a conviction. I mean there is not enough evidence to prove a homicide occurred or even that Dottie is dead, let alone that Jule is the one responsible.

Kadrma: I think you're right. I am confusing this case with the Marfeo case; thanks for clearing that up.

I agree that there is insufficient evidence to bring a charge against Jules, let alone a conviction. I don't think a grand jury would agree to charges (perhaps the evidence was presented in front of a grand jury and they declined to move forward with a charge). We wouldn't have known about that, because, as you know, those things are classified.

I do think that if Dottie's body were to ever turn up, Jules would be charged with her murder, or at the very least, a more aggressive investigation would ensue.

For some reason, the women in Dottie's support group always struck me as key to solving this case. At the very least, I think they know more than they are telling (I got the impression that Dottie might have even had a relationship with one of them), or perhaps one of the women wanted a relationship with Dottie, but she declined.

I don't think they were involved in foul play, but maybe they are pretending to know nothing when in fact they know more.

Did Jules ever take a lie detector test?

given Dottie's condition, she could have been pegged as an easy target by a predator at the BART station.

I don't think that Jule is guilty, I think Dotty was a bit mad too.

given Dottie's condition, she could have been pegged as an easy target by a predator at the BART station.

I dunno, if you wear a sexual predator would you really want to go after a women who is screaming cowering in fear and shaking uncontrollably? Not the most discrete target.

I haven't read through the whole thread, but you might be interested to know that Jule Caylor has a Facebook page. Of course, he has a new woman now. Kinda creepy to see that pic of him though.

I haven't read through the whole thread, but you might be interested to know that Jule Caylor has a Facebook page. Of course, he has a new woman now. Kinda creepy to see that pic of him though.

I think that there will be a quite a few Facebook pages coming out feauturing UM characters. :rolleyes:

I suspect that the Circleville Write will soon have his own facebook page. :lol:

a huge component of this case that I don't think has been talked about: did they ever find the friend that Dorothy was said to have planned visiting? Jule stated that she was supposed to have been gone 2 weeks, so I'm sure this wasn't an unplanned visit if in fact there was a plan of a visit. If this friend can verify there was a plan, then I think that throws some suspicion off Jule.

at the beginning of the segment, they play up the "agoraphobic woman going for a bus ride" angle, but then later on they state that Dottie had been attending meetings, opening accounts, etc, so she was getting out more. So her going on a bus ride doesn't seem implausible.

Here's my two cents:

1) I think that Jule Caylor has Asperger's Syndrome. A person w/ that syndrome would be unaware of they are perceived as they would lack the skills to interpret social cues. That would explain his rather odd and off-putting behavior;perhaps he just can't help it.

2) It appears that Dottie also had a number of mental/emotional issues. Since the segment largely glazed over them, we'll never know how that might have affected her thinking and what she was capable of doing.

3) I don't think that Jule Caylor killed his wife. No motive was ever presented as why he would have done it, certainly no method was described and while he had ample opportunity, w/o first two items, the third isn't that important.

4) My opinion: Dottie is possibly still alive. The area that she disappeared in (SF Bay Area) is a well-known destination for people attempting to lose themselves. In fact, until 9/11, if you want to disappear completely, the Bay Area was one of best areas to do as such.

If she is dead, then I would lean more toward suicide or accidental death more than homicide. Why? She had a number of psychological issues, she was about to experience a major life change and she apparently didn't have many friends or close relatives.

There are many high bridges in the Bay Area as well as many remote wilderness areas fairly close that could hide the body of a suicide victim. If/when they locate her body, I believe that suicide or "undetermined" will be a cause of death noted.

Here's my two cents:

1) I think that Jule Caylor has Asperger's Syndrome. A person w/ that syndrome would be unaware of they are perceived as they would lack the skills to interpret social cues. That would explain his rather odd and off-putting behavior;perhaps he just can't help it.

That's a very valid point. Asperger's Syndrome was not well-known at all during the 1980s, so of course, everyone assumed that his behaviour in his UM interview was just him simply being a jerk. That theory wouldn't surprise me as even the most guilty man should know that acting that way on national TV when you're the prime suspect in your wife's disappearance is NOT a good idea. During one of the commentaries on one of the UM DVD sets, the producers told a story about how Jule's lawyer was in the room during that interview and was none-too-pleased with what his client was saying, but the fact that it made to air seems to indicate Jule had no qualms about it. His decision not to report Dottie missing for five days certainly looks suspicious, but I have to wonder if a person with Asperger's simply wouldn't see anything wrong with that. The infamous Wendy's salad story certain displays the symptoms of a man with a major social disorder.

3) I don't think that Jule Caylor killed his wife. No motive was ever presented as why he would have done it, certainly no method was described and while he had ample opportunity, w/o first two items, the third isn't that important.

Yes, there doesn't seem to be any rational reason for him to have murdered his wife when they were so close to divorcing and going their separate ways and he seemed to pretty content to finally have Dottie out of his life. Most people here assume that if he did kill her, it was likely an accident or a crime of passion instead of premeditated murder.

There are many high bridges in the Bay Area as well as many remote wilderness areas fairly close that could hide the body of a suicide victim. If/when they locate her body, I believe that suicide or "undetermined" will be a cause of death noted.

Let's not forget that Jule's job was in the forestry service (just do a Google search on him and you'll find his name on a lot of forestry-related websites). If he killed Dottie, I'm sure he probably would have known a good place in the wilderness to dispose of the body where she would never be found.

His decision not to report Dottie missing for five days certainly looks suspicious

well I think the things is, and I was talking about this above, she was supposed to have been gone for 2 weeks, so I don't think he realized she was missing during those 5 days, because she was supposed to be at the friends house. Now had the friend called Jule to inquire about Dottie, that's a whole 'nother can of worms, but that information is not known.

There are many high bridges in the Bay Area as well as many remote wilderness areas fairly close that could hide the body of a suicide victim. If/when they locate her body, I believe that suicide or "undetermined" will be a cause of death noted.


There are 7 bridges in the Bay Area: Benicia-Martinez, Carquinez, Dumbarton, Golden Gate, Bay Bridge, Richmond-San Rafael & San Mateo-Heyward. All of them have so many travellers that a suicide would have been reported day or night.

What "remote wilderness areas" close to the Bay Area are you referring to?

well I think the things is, and I was talking about this above, she was supposed to have been gone for 2 weeks, so I don't think he realized she was missing during those 5 days, because she was supposed to be at the friends house. Now had the friend called Jule to inquire about Dottie, that's a whole 'nother can of worms, but that information is not known.

I'm a little fuzzy on exactly how long Dottie was supposed to be gone on this trip. The UM segment clearly states that Jule claimed she went off on an overnight trip, and the fact that she left with an overnight bag seems to indicate that was she wasn't going to be gone long. Did Jule later change his story and claim she was supposed to be gone for two weeks in order to account for not reporting her missing for five days?

It seems suspicious that Jule would let Dottie go on a trip without ever finding out where she was going, but since their marriage was about to end anyway, it does fit with his personality that he legitimately wouldn't give a crap about what she did.

There are 7 bridges in the Bay Area: Benicia-Martinez, Carquinez, Dumbarton, Golden Gate, Bay Bridge, Richmond-San Rafael & San Mateo-Heyward. All of them have so many travellers that a suicide would have been reported day or night.

What "remote wilderness areas" close to the Bay Area are you referring to?

You left out:

1) Antioch Bridge
2) Leimert Bridge (It's in Oakland over Sausal Creek)

Both of which are high enough to cause serious injury or death if they were used by a suicidal person. Only the Leimert Bridge is over a relatively shallow body of water, but the creek does flow somewhat fast.

As far as wilderness areas there are:

1) Mount Diablo State Park
2) Monte Bello Open Space Preserve
3) Monument Peak
4) Mayacamas Mountains (Near Napa)
5) Santa Cruz Mountains

To name just a few. Most aren't "wilderness areas" in the sense of something in Nevada (where I grew up) or other places out West. They would,however, be more than sufficient to hide a deceased person that may have been injured there or died by their own hand.

And while in the daytime, a suicide from a bridge might attract attention, it would obviously attract far less attention in the evening or early in the morning before day.

This all assumes that this is a suicide or death by misadventure. If she was killed by Caylor or disappeared on her own, then obviously there wouldn't be any reason to look in those areas.

bump ... after re-watching this case today:

Jule Caylor strikes me as a man with "nothing to hide" during his interview. There's no stumbling or bumbling and no shaky story with wild explanations like in the case of Tim McClure or others. Sure, he may just be a super effective liar. If so he sure fooled me, but he definitely didn't have any of the classic "tells."

Why would he even bother to alert BART authorities if he had something to do with Dottie's disappearance?

Even Dottie's sister seems to lean towards her "disappearing just as Jule had done several times during their marriage."

Assuming she was not murdered and did assume a new identity, it seems to have all worked out "pretty good" for the both of them. I think she dealt with her disorder (maybe through some meds she'd been secretly taking) and just got the will to leave. Maybe she (and maybe her sister?) were hoping Jule would be implicated and suffer. It might be easier to start a new life if you're declared legally dead.

bump ... after re-watching this case today:

Jule Caylor strikes me as a man with "nothing to hide" during his interview. There's no stumbling or bumbling and no shaky story with wild explanations like in the case of Tim McClure or others. Sure, he may just be a super effective liar. If so he sure fooled me, but he definitely didn't have any of the classic "tells."

Why would he even bother to alert BART authorities if he had something to do with Dottie's disappearance?

Even Dottie's sister seems to lean towards her "disappearing just as Jule had done several times during their marriage."

Assuming she was not murdered and did assume a new identity, it seems to have all worked out "pretty good" for the both of them. I think she dealt with her disorder (maybe through some meds she'd been secretly taking) and just got the will to leave. Maybe she (and maybe her sister?) were hoping Jule would be implicated and suffer. It might be easier to start a new life if you're declared legally dead.

Excellent post. I always love a good Tim McClure insult, especially when it comes out of nowhere. High-five to you!

Yes. It's important to note that while Dottie had been reclusive in the past, she had started getting out, meeting new people, caring for her appearance more, etc. Which leads me to believe there's a good chance she did find a new life.

And I find the sister's comment of Jule's disappearing to be unfair. He was working, and his job frequently took him out of town for periods of time. He was trying to earn a living for them as Dottie was apparently unable to work.

IMO, Jule Caylor is guilty as sin. The case against him is largely circumstantial, but consider:

-Dottie was enrolled in a support group for battered women. I highly doubt she would have enrolled in this group if there was only that one incident of physical violence. There is a history of abuse here.
-Jule proposed marriage to a coworker of his 6 months before Dottie disappeared.
-Dottie inherited a $5,000 check that was going to expire in a few months (prior to her disappearance). She gave the check to a friend to put into a safety deposit box, because she didn't want Jule to find out about it. The check was never cashed.
-There are no witnesses who place Dottie at the BART station that day, outside of Jule Caylor. No one saw her board a train, or buying a ticket, etc.
-Jule dropped Dottie off at the BART station, and then the next day her car is parked right next to his?! And this didn't set off any red flags in his head that something was wrong?
-Jule discovered her purse inside of her car, with money, her drivers license, her bee kit, among other things, and again, this didn't alarm him at all? The only thing he was concerned about was getting a parking ticket, so he moved her car.
-Jule signed a rent contract (to rent out the house that he and Dottie shared) 5 days prior to her disappearance.
-Jule claims that Dottie was supposed to be gone for 2 weeks because she was visiting a friend, yet made no effort to call this friend to see if Dottie did in fact show up there and if she was still there.
-Dottie had set up a "secret" bank account. None of the money was ever withdrawn.
-In 2001 he was interviewed by a reporter where he claimed that he "forgot" about Dottie's disappearance.
-In that same interview, he now says that he never drove Dottie to the BART station, and that she drove herself.

When looking at the totality of everything, it's clear to me that Jule wanted Dottie out of his life for various reasons. It's also clear that if Dottie did in fact want to break free from Jule, she had ample opportunities to do so, because of his seemingly blasse attitude when it came to locating her. So it's not like she wouldn't have contacted one of her family members to let them know she was fine. There's no doubt in my mind that Dottie was murdered the day she disappeared and that Jule Caylor is guilty.

-Dottie was enrolled in a support group for battered women. I highly doubt she would have enrolled in this group if there was only that one incident of physical violence. There is a history of abuse here.


Stack says the group was called "Women In Transition", but there's no statement that it was a group for battered women. It could mean a lot of things. I always got the impression it had more to do with her agoraphobia than anything else, and was a way for her to meet new people and gain self-confidence.

-Dottie inherited a $5,000 check that was going to expire in a few months (prior to her disappearance). She gave the check to a friend to put into a safety deposit box, because she didn't want Jule to find out about it. The check was never cashed.

That seems odd. She had her own bank account and credit cards, so I wonder why she felt the need to have this check and this check alone guarded by a friend? I also wonder when she received the check (in other words, how long she had it?).

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that she ran away with somebody rich and no longer felt it was as necessary, or had forgot about it and didn't want to come back to retrieve it.

-There are no witnesses who place Dottie at the BART station that day, outside of Jule Caylor. No one saw her board a train, or buying a ticket, etc.

Stack said that Dottie entered the station and purchased a ticket. I know it's a re-enactment, but the re-enactment depicts Dottie having her own car to herself, so perhaps it wasn't that busy that day. I'm guessing it was probably after rush-hour.

-Jule dropped Dottie off at the BART station, and then the next day her car is parked right next to his?! And this didn't set off any red flags in his head that something was wrong?
-Jule discovered her purse inside of her car, with money, her drivers license, her bee kit, among other things, and again, this didn't alarm him at all? The only thing he was concerned about was getting a parking ticket, so he moved her car.

Not sure what you're getting at here. Jule admits in the interview that he thought it was "very strange".

He also moved her purse under the seat and locked the doors, so he was concerned about the car being burglarized and her purse stolen.

The bee sting kit was missing.

--Jule signed a rent contract (to rent out the house that he and Dottie shared) 5 days prior to her disappearance.

But that would sort of dispel the theory he murdered her in a sudden fit of rage.

--Jule claims that Dottie was supposed to be gone for 2 weeks because she was visiting a friend, yet made no effort to call this friend to see if Dottie did in fact show up there and if she was still there.

Several things. First, it's unknown if Jule knew what friend it was or even had their contact number or anything of that nature. Second, this was during the period when Jule was in the process of relocating to Utah, and Dottie was staying behind and they were done with each other. Jule probably didn't care and/or thought it was none of his business.

-It's also clear that if Dottie did in fact want to break free from Jule, she had ample opportunities to do so, because of his seemingly blasse attitude when it came to locating her.

Huh?

--Jule proposed marriage to a coworker of his 6 months before Dottie disappeared.

But Jule has a history of this. He was seeing Dottie while still married to his first wife. Dottie didn't know he was married until a couple months after she started seeing him. We know he didn't kill his first wife.

Stack says the group was called "Women In Transition", but there's no statement that it was a group for battered women. It could mean a lot of things. I always got the impression it had more to do with her agoraphobia than anything else, and was a way for her to meet new people and gain self-confidence.

Charley Project says it was a group for "battered women" and that she was trying to "regain her self-confidence and reportedly planned to divorce Jule".

That seems odd. She had her own bank account and credit cards, so I wonder why she felt the need to have this check and this check alone guarded by a friend? I also wonder when she received the check (in other words, how long she had it?).

It was a cashier's check and she gave it to a friend, along with other important documents that she wanted the friend to hide from Jule. Charley Project says "early 1985" and that the check expired in October of 1985.

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that she ran away with somebody rich and no longer felt it was as necessary, or had forgot about it and didn't want to come back to retrieve it.

It is out of the realm of possibility for her to have never contacted her friends or family in the years since she has disappeared. Not to mention that Dottie had agoraphobia, coupled with the abuse by Jule, I highly doubt she was willing to go out and be courted by another man.

Stack said that Dottie entered the station and purchased a ticket. I know it's a re-enactment, but the re-enactment depicts Dottie having her own car to herself, so perhaps it wasn't that busy that day. I'm guessing it was probably after rush-hour.

Charley Project makes no mention of this, but it is very vague.

Not sure what you're getting at here. Jule admits in the interview that he thought it was "very strange".

He did nothing to report his suspicions to the authorities.

He also moved her purse under the seat and locked the doors, so he was concerned about the car being burglarized and her purse stolen.

Or the purse being noticed and having someone call authorities to check it out, and then discovering that it's Dottie Caylor and that she is missing.

The bee sting kit was missing.

Yes it was, my mistake.

But that would sort of dispel the theory he murdered her in a sudden fit of rage.

But it doesn't mean he didn't plan to murder her.

Several things. First, it's unknown if Jule knew what friend it was or even had their contact number or anything of that nature. Second, this was during the period when Jule was in the process of relocating to Utah, and Dottie was staying behind and they were done with each other. Jule probably didn't care and/or thought it was none of his business.

A neighbor called him and urged him to report her missing 5 days after she disappeared. Isn't it odd that the neighbor was more concerned about her well being than Jule, impending divorce or not?

Huh?

The theory was presented that she would have wanted to remain hidden because she was afraid of Jule finding her and harming her. But this theory is ridiculous because Jule seemed so unconcerned about finding any trace of her, dead or alive. She had nothing to fear. If she ran off, Jule wasn't looking for her. Why then would she not contact her family?

But Jule has a history of this. He was seeing Dottie while still married to his first wife. Dottie didn't know he was married until a couple months after she started seeing him. We know he didn't kill his first wife.

That speaks volumes about the character of Jule Caylor.

A neighbor called him and urged him to report her missing 5 days after she disappeared. Isn't it odd that the neighbor was more concerned about her well being than Jule, impending divorce or not?

He was expecting her to be gone for 12 days, and only 5 days had passed. He probably didn't figure she was missing by that point.

He was expecting her to be gone for 12 days, and only 5 days had passed. He probably didn't figure she was missing by that point.

Why not reassure the neighbor by telling them that?

I'm sure I mentioned this many years ago, but where exactly did Jule find the time to murder his wife and hide the body in such that it's never been found, 30 years later? He was preparing to move, preparing for a new job, still working his day job (and we know he worked the day after he last saw Dottie). How did he find the time to murder his wife, hide the body and leave no witnesses or evidence? That would take a Herculean effort (unintentionally quoting Jule there).

Why not reassure the neighbor by telling them that?

I know it may be hard to believe, but he could have been relieved his wife was gone and didn't care enough to let the neighbor know. Maybe he didn't get along with the neighbor given his ... unique personality. The guy admits the relationship was crappy so it is not shocking to me that he didn't go to great lengths to locate Dottie.

what seems possible to me is that Dottie got on the BART and wherever she got off, the situation overwhelmed her. She may have cracked and ended up in the tenderloin district (the 80's version that was a slum) and became lost amongst the street people. Maybe if we could find "Tony" he would tell us the answers were "on the street."

True Social Anxiety Disorder and Agoraphobia is powerful stuff.

-In 2001 he was interviewed by a reporter where he claimed that he "forgot" about Dottie's disappearance.
-In that same interview, he now says that he never drove Dottie to the BART station, and that she drove herself.

That sounds like somebody who was being pestered by a reporter and didn't want to talk about it. He probably moved on with his life.

I'm sure I mentioned this many years ago, but where exactly did Jule find the time to murder his wife and hide the body in such that it's never been found, 30 years later? He was preparing to move, preparing for a new job, still working his day job (and we know he worked the day after he last saw Dottie). How did he find the time to murder his wife, hide the body and leave no witnesses or evidence? That would take a Herculean effort (unintentionally quoting Jule there).

I have to admit, this is an excellent point, wiseguy182. I never even thought of that and this case is one of the first I remember watching more than 25 years ago. Yes, it is possible to get away with murder, but not always.

On a much lighter note regarding this case, and I've likely said this in the past, the music that plays in the re-enactment as Dottie gets to the platform is hauntingly good. You know, when RS is saying something along the lines of "No one knows for sure if Dottie boarded the train ..."

On a much lighter note regarding this case, and I've likely said this in the past, the music that plays in the re-enactment as Dottie gets to the platform is hauntingly good. You know, when RS is saying something along the lines of "No one knows for sure if Dottie boarded the train ..."

Agreed 100%. I find that to be the best scene of the segment. She looks as though she's lost and you have to wonder if she just disappeared into thin air.

It would be incredibly stupid for Jule to rent out the house after having just murdered his wife in there. Surely, he would expect the authorities would be going over it with a fine toothed comb looking for hairs, blood, and other evidence. And in fact, during his interview, Jule said he wasn't surprised when the authorities looked at him since he was close to her. At first glance, the re-painting of the house looks a little suspicious, but he probably just wanted the house to look as attractive as possible since he was renting it out.

Dottie was enrolled in a support group for battered women. I highly doubt she would have enrolled in this group if there was only that one incident of physical violence. There is a history of abuse here.

And where do you get that from? Jule has been married 3 times, he had one marriage after Dottie and one before. AFAIK, neither of his other wives have alleged they suffered abuse at the hands of Jule, and if Jule had abused Dottie, he almost certainly would have mistreated his other wives.

Dottie claimed abuse, but did her friends and family ever state they saw her with bruises or a black eye or anything of that sort? Because I don't know of any. We know of one isolated incident in which she threatened to kill him with a pair of scissors, and he admitted he hit her with her typing stand in self-defense.

If Dottie was being consistently abused, not only did she stay silent about it, but so did her friends and family. It seems unlikely that many people would keep quiet for so long.

It's also important to note that Dottie had mental issues.

Jule Caylor is guilty as hell. There was a wealth of information left out of the UM segment. For starters (keeping in mind that Jule says he last saw Dottie on 6/12/85):

-Jule Caylor only worked for an hour and a half on 6/12/85. He left work and used 6 and a half hours of sick leave on the day she disappeared.

-Jule took 8 hours of sick leave on 6/11/85. He used four hours on 6/13/85, and then used a full 8 hours again on 6/14/85. This was all verified by detectives looking at his work calendar.

-Dottie had written several letters to Jule's parents accusing him of abusing her (physically and emotionally) for years. She repeatedly had said that he had abandoned her on various holidays and events (Christmas even one time) to run off and carry on extramarital affairs. In one letter, she says Jule had told her that when he was younger, he built a bomb and "stuffed it up the ass of the neighbors sleeping dog" and blew it up while masturbating. :eek:

-In another letter to Jule's parents, Dottie had said that Jule had planned on killing his first wife because she was going to "bankrupt" him during their divorce proceedings. He told Dottie he was going to sneak into his first wife's home at night and slit her throat, and that no one would ever accuse him of doing it. Despite Jule saying it would be easy for him to disappear into the Alaskan wilderness, Dottie says she talked Jule out of doing it.

-In yet another letter, Dottie said this:

Jule's threats to 'pop me off' as he puts it, may succeed, but in the long run, it won't get him anywhere. The neighbors are watching him now, to help protect me, especially because of his 1981 violence against me. And if he carries through with his murder threats, he'll just find himself sitting in jail for the rest of his life.

-During the investigation into Dottie's disappearance, detectives were never able to find anyone (reliable) other than Jule who claimed to have seen Dottie alive on 6/12/85.

-An insurance agent in Utah who was working with Jule to transfer his insurance over, had said that Jule repeatedly made advances towards her while at her office. During a conversation with her, Jule had said that he "didn't believe in divorce; it would be easier to do away with them." Jule also showed her several aerial photos that he had taken of a forest and the insurance agent suspected he was showing her pictures where he had buried Dottie's body.

-The lady (Della Vigil) whom Jule had proposed marriage to 6 months prior to Dottie's disappearance had no idea about the fact that Jule and Dottie were still married. In fact, the police didn't even know about her existence until a friend of Della's recognized Jule on UM and called the hotline. Della had told police that Jule told her that he had no family and was married to an "oriental" woman but had divorced her ten years prior. During a holiday stay with Jule at the tail end of 1985, Jule's daughter was coming to stay with them and at that point he finally confessed about his marriage to Dottie. He claimed that their relationship was "asinine", told her about the physical assault, and claimed that he feared for his life when he was around Dottie. Della told police that Jule simply claimed that Dottie wanted to "make him know what it was like to be alone" and simply vanished (kind of like Gone Girl in a way) to disrupt his life. He told Della that Dottie was not going to kill him, and, "If I have to, I'll kill her first. As a matter of fact, she's gone and if she's dead someplace...it's good riddance." He also told Della, "You don't have to worry about her coming to interfere in our lives. You don't have to worry, I will protect you, she's not going to come hurt you or me anymore. Maybe she is dead somewhere, maybe somebody killed her, and if somebody killed her, good riddance." Della had said she wanted to help Jule clear his name with police, but he was never interested and always appeared indifferent. After seeing how cold blooded he appeared to be handling Dottie's disappearance, Della became fearful of Jule and suspected that he murdered her. She had cut her visit with him short, and called friends and said that if they didn't hear from her in ten hours to call the police because Jule had killed her. The detectives asked what Jule had said to her to make her become so fearful of Jule so quickly, and she had said that Jule bragged to her about how easy it would be to bury a body and that no one would ever suspect anything. He went into detail about how he buried Dottie's dog, and knew how to bury it to eliminate odors to not alarm neighbors. He said that if he ever wanted to get rid of a person, he would do the same thing he did with the dog.

-The plan was for Jule to move to Utah while Dottie stayed behind and lived at the home they had once shared. One of Dottie's friends became worried after repeated attempts to call her home went unanswered. She was also worried because she knew that Dottie would never go anywhere without her purse. On one of the days trying to call Dottie at her house, Jule answered and told her that Dottie was missing. She told him to call the police, but he didn't. It was only after "consulting" with a neighbor who was a police officer, that Jule finally reported her missing.

-When UM re-aired the segment in the early 2000's, and man had e-mailed the show a tip about Jule. He was Jule's middle and high school classmate and had said that he wrote a paper in 7th or 8th grade titled, "How to commit the perfect murder". It creeped the teacher and the students out.

-The next door neighbor of Jule and Dottie had found a rusty meat clever hidden under some ivy on his fence after Jule had moved away and Dottie disappeared. Prior to this, Jule had asked him not to cut the ivy away because it was holding the fence up. The same neighbor said that when he was in the house (after Dottie's disappearance) helping Jule move, he could smell what smelled like burning flesh inside. Jule gave the man a 50 lb sack of sulfur for him to use "fertilizer". He also had said that he saw Jule pour a concrete slab for a patio in his backyard around the time that Dottie had disappeared.

-Dottie's friend, after finding out that she was missing, went to the house she shared with Jule. Jule walked her around the house and saw her clothing neatly folded in her room. She knew Dottie would have taken these things if she did in fact plan on leaving the house and going elsewhere. She asked to see Dottie's purse, and Jule showed her. She removed the contents and saw the wallet, medical card, and bee sting kit. She made a "big deal" to Jule that Dottie would have never went anywhere without her medical card or bee sting kit. She went to the house because she knew that Dottie was afraid of Jule, and thought that maybe Jule had Dottie locked up in the house against her will. She claims that Jule was more concerned with his financial situation instead of Dottie's well being.

-None of Dottie's friends had ever heard her talk about disappearing for a long period of time, or running off with a "mystery man". The last time she went on a date with someone other than Jule (in addition to the support groups she was in, she was also involved in a singles group) was in late of 1984. None of the men she dated ever went back on other dates with her, only one.

-When detectives reopened the case in 2004, they reinterviewed Della Vigil. She told them that in 1985, Jule had complained to her about the tenants in the house he and Dottie shared slaughtered an animal inside the house and got blood all over the walls.

-The rental agent who managed the property after Jule moved to Utah said that Jule told her that Dottie was moving to Utah with him.

-Dottie had told her sister that she was going to stay with a friend until Jule left and moved to Utah. Once he was in Utah, she would return to the house. Dottie's sister found out about a moving truck outside of Dottie's house and went over to confront Jule on 6/19/85. Jule had all of Dottie's belongings in the truck and was planning on taking them to Utah with him. Dottie's sister began to yell and question why he was taking Dottie's things if she planned on coming back home when he left. Jule was reluctant to let them take anything, and said that Dottie could get the things in Utah if she ever resurfaced. Jule also never had called Dottie's sister from 6/12 up until she confronted him on 6/19/85 to ask about Dottie's whereabouts. In the police report that Jule filed, he had Dottie listed under her maiden name. Dottie's sister said that was "about as close to distancing as you could get".

-Dottie's sister hired private investigators to look into finding Dottie. They found nothing. The cost of hiring them was high, and she asked Jule to help contribute some money he was receiving from renting the house out. He claimed expenses were too high and that he couldn't contribute a couple hundred dollars a month to help locate Dottie.

-Jule repeatedly turned down offers from police, Dottie's sister, and Della Vigil to take a polygraph test. A polygraph expert even suggested that he only answer one question with regards to knowing the whereabouts of Dottie, and he still refused.

-Dottie's parents passed away in 1997 and 2005. She did not attend the funeral services or sent a "mystery" card or flowers, etc.

-Dottie sent a birthday card to a friend on 6/5/85 which read, "In the home stretch, a few more weeks and he'll finally be out of here! Hooray!".

-Dottie refused to sign the loan papers Jule had repeatedly asked her to. Without her signature, he wouldn't be able to buy the home in Utah. He eventually had to have his parents put their house up for collateral to purchase the house in Utah. There is no evidence that Dottie knew about Jule's plans to rent the house out after he moved to Utah. The plan was for Dottie to live there. Jule signed the rental agreement on 6/7/85 while Dottie was still alive. IMO, he planned on killing her (once she wouldn't sign the loan), and then rent the house out at double the price of the mortgage payment to receive more money. Jule had said that he and Dottie's original agreement was that Dottie was going to pay him $400 a month to live in the house while he was in Utah. The rental agreement was for $650 a month for tenants to live in the house. This is extremely cold, if Jule is innocent (and at this point, I don't think there is any way, shape, or form that he is). He claimed that Dottie was still alive, knew that she planned on returning to the house and living in it, yet he goes out and moves her things out of the house so he can rent it before she can even return home?! Where was Dottie going to go if she ever did come back home and found that tenants were living inside the house?

-In 2004, the police looked into Dottie's purse and inventoried the contents. They found the instructions on how to use the bee sting kit, but not the actual bee sting kit. Dottie would have needed these instructions to use it. She would have taken them with the kit, but she didn't.

-Jule's "Herculean effort" comment:

I have faith in myself Sweetheart. If I did not I could have never come here. That took a most Herculean effort - one which you will probably never fully understand (because it was so difficult I really cannot talk about it or think about it coherently to tell you about it yet).

ETA: Several of Dottie's friends confirmed that she was in a support group that specified in helping battered women prepare to leave their husbands and file for divorce. She apparently was involved in several other support groups, and dating groups as well.

Some more interesting tidbits:

-After the UM segment aired in 87, a caller identifying himself as Larry Dewitt called the police department and said that he recognized Dottie from her photos shown on the broadcast. He claimed that in November of 1985, Dottie came into his office to answer an ad for a legal secretary. He claims that Dottie identified herself as "Dottie Caylor or something similar" and that she didn't want her husband or family to know where she was. He claimed that he let Dottie assume his dead sister's name to get her a new identity and that he hired her to work at his firm.

Police did everything they could to follow up on this lead and came up empty. They could find no Larry Dewitt who was a paralegal in the Chicago area (the information he provided to detectives), and the number he provided them was disconnected. They became skeptical of the authenticity because the man claimed to have simply given this woman whom he had never met before all of his sister's personal information so she could resume her identity and start a new life, all because he needed a secretary. Also, the only information he could provide about Dottie were things mentioned in the UM segment. Dottie's sister listened to the call, and said it definitely was not Jule Caylor.

-In 2004 detectives interviewed a friend of Dottie's who was in the same singles group claims to have seen Dottie once at a shopping center in 1986. She said she saw her and that Dottie appeared "shocked", and that she avoided eye contact with her after that. She never approached her to ask if she was Dottie, and conceded that it could have been a woman who looked a lot like Dottie. This friend also told police she had "visions", was psychic, and detailed various special abilities she had.

Detectives didn't believe her story because when interviewed by the original detective assigned to the case in 1986, she told him she was not sure that the woman she saw was Dottie.

-Dottie had met a man from the singles group she attended and had gone out on a date with him. Detectives found a angry letter she wrote to him saying that she essentially wanted to cease contact with him, and that "J's back so if you don't want him on your trail, cease mailings to my residence - your fears of him are well founded."

Detectives questioned the man who said he and Dottie went out on a date together, and that she had bought him a Van Gogh art print. He wasn't sure what the painting was, and Dottie made a condescending remark to him that made him mad. They began to argue throughout the night and eventually it got so heated that he pulled over and put her out and made her take a cab home. He began to write letters to her saying that if he ever saw her at the singles group meetings, he would simply leave. Detectives could find no evidence that this man ever tried to contact Dottie after she mailed that threatening letter to him about "J" (Jule). The man also was never considered a suspect in her disappearance.

ETA: In 2004, Detectives scanned Jule's backyard where he poured the concrete patio with a radar device and found an "anomaly" underneath it.

Man, I always thought Jule was guilty, but leaned towards this being a crime of passion and him killing Dottie by accident and covering it up. All this new information you shared now makes me think the guy's a psychopath who committed premeditated murder!

I've always been intrigued by the tidbit about the anonymous letter being sent in after the case aired on UM which described in meticulous detail how Jule murdered Dottie. Some investigators though it might have been sent in by a psychic who watched the show, but there was some suspicion that the handwriting on the letter was similar to Jule's. Call me crazy, but I honestly think Jule might have been narcissistic enough to write the letter himself, especially after reading this...

When UM re-aired the segment in the early 2000's, and man had e-mailed the show a tip about Jule. He was Jule's middle and high school classmate and had said that he wrote a paper in 7th or 8th grade titled, "How to commit the perfect murder". It creeped the teacher and the students out.

The guy might have been so certain that he committed the perfect murder that he decided to test himself by acting as suspicious as hell in his UM interview and then sending in an anonymous letter describing EXACTLY how he killed Dottie while even including a map of her supposed burial location. Hell, this might even explain Jule changing his story in that newspaper interview years later and claiming that Dottie drove herself to the BART station. That's a pretty significant detail, so why would Jule do something like that unless he was absolutely certain he would get away with the crime? If he's guilty, Jule technically did commit the "perfect murder" because he left absolutely no hard evidence behind and will probably never be charged with the crime.

I've always been intrigued by the tidbit about the anonymous letter being sent in after the case aired on UM which described in meticulous detail how Jule murdered Dottie. Some investigators though it might have been sent in by a psychic who watched the show, but there was some suspicion that the handwriting on the letter was similar to Jule's. Call me crazy, but I honestly think Jule might have been narcissistic enough to write the letter himself, especially after reading this...

I've read the contents of the letter and seen the map, and a handwriting expert who looked at the drawings (the letter was typed) said that the handwriting on the drawing was consistent with Jule's handwriting, but noted that further testing would be able to prove 100% one way or the other if it was indeed written by Jule.

The guy might have been so certain that he committed the perfect murder that he decided to test himself by acting as suspicious as hell in his UM interview and then sending in an anonymous letter describing EXACTLY how he killed Dottie while even including a map of her supposed burial location. Hell, this might even explain Jule changing his story in that newspaper interview years later and claiming that Dottie drove herself to the BART station. That's a pretty significant detail, so why would Jule do something like that unless he was absolutely certain he would get away with the crime? If he's guilty, Jule technically did commit the "perfect murder" because he left absolutely no hard evidence behind and will probably never be charged with the crime.

I think they have enough circumstantial evidence to warrant an arrest, but then again I'm no legal expert. They have all of the letters Dottie had written to Jule's parents (saying various times how he threatened to kill her), Jule's ex-fiancee who also heard him say very incriminating remarks, Jule and Dottie's neighbors, Dottie's friends, family, etc. I'm guessing they are just waiting to find Dottie's body before they go ahead and charge Jule.

I think they have enough circumstantial evidence to warrant an arrest, but then again I'm no legal expert. They have all of the letters Dottie had written to Jule's parents (saying various times how he threatened to kill her), Jule's ex-fiancee who also heard him say very incriminating remarks, Jule and Dottie's neighbors, Dottie's friends, family, etc. I'm guessing they are just waiting to find Dottie's body before they go ahead and charge Jule.

I'm no legal expert either, but, man, it seems like a pretty weak case against him without a body or any definitive physical evidence that Dottie is dead. I know the theory has been pushed around that since Jule spent his career working in the forestry service, he would probably know ideal locations to dispose of Dottie's body to ensure she's never found, so sadly, I don't have high hopes that her remains will ever be recovered.

Like numerous UM cases, I've gone from being sure Jule was guilty, to completely doubting said guilt, to being absolutely convinced of his guilt. Another poster and I discussed this case privately about a year ago and that's when I came across a lot of the information Cars posted. I've never any differently ever since--he killed her. Period.

Like numerous UM cases, I've gone from being sure Jule was guilty, to completely doubting said guilt, to being absolutely convinced of his guilt. Another poster and I discussed this case privately about a year ago and that's when I came across a lot of the information Cars posted. I've never any differently ever since--he killed her. Period.

Yes! Guilty.

The UM segment, for those that don't know, is very misleading. I know some posters have picked up on it in other threads and prior posts, but Dottie did not have a severe bout of agoraphobia. She was involved in not only the group for battered women, but also a singles group, groups within her church, and a support group for women who were married who planned on getting divorced and living alone. She was fairly social at the time she disappeared. She had several friends, was going out on dates, and had her own little "secret" life that she kept from Jule. The UM segment makes it appear like because of Jule being away for work "50%" of the time, Dottie became lonely at home and developed her agoraphobia as a result. But I honestly believe it was due to physical and emotional abuse by Jule for years that caused her to become sheltered and slightly agoraphobic. Jule Caylor is a scumbag of a husband, not to mention a scumbag of a human being. After learning more information about this case, that makes me more sick to my stomach while watching his interview on UM. What a POS, saying that life has been "really pretty good" since Dottie disappeared. It was "really pretty good" because he killed her and to this day has gotten away with it.

Jule Caylor is guilty as hell. There was a wealth of information left out of the UM segment. For starters (keeping in mind that Jule says he last saw Dottie on 6/12/85):

-Jule Caylor only worked for an hour and a half on 6/12/85. He left work and used 6 and a half hours of sick leave on the day she disappeared.

-Jule took 8 hours of sick leave on 6/11/85. He used four hours on 6/13/85, and then used a full 8 hours again on 6/14/85. This was all verified by detectives looking at his work calendar.

Why wouldn't he use up the sick leave and vacation time? He wasn't working at the job for much longer. He wanted to use it before he would lose it.

-Dottie had written several letters to Jule's parents accusing him of abusing her (physically and emotionally) for years. She repeatedly had said that he had abandoned her on various holidays and events (Christmas even one time) to run off and carry on extramarital affairs. In one letter, she says Jule had told her that when he was younger, he built a bomb and "stuffed it up the ass of the neighbors sleeping dog" and blew it up while masturbating. :eek:

Oh yeah. I'm sure the dog would just sleep right through that. We know he's a dog lover because the segment shows him at home with his dogs.

-In another letter to Jule's parents, Dottie had said that Jule had planned on killing his first wife because she was going to "bankrupt" him during their divorce proceedings. He told Dottie he was going to sneak into his first wife's home at night and slit her throat, and that no one would ever accuse him of doing it. Despite Jule saying it would be easy for him to disappear into the Alaskan wilderness, Dottie says she talked Jule out of doing it.

Why would Jule say that? He said he wasn't surprised when they viewed him as a potential person of interest in Dottie's case because it's natural to suspect those closest to you. Yet, he figures he could get away with another wife's murder and they won't even look at him?

-An insurance agent in Utah who was working with Jule to transfer his insurance over, had said that Jule repeatedly made advances towards her while at her office. During a conversation with her, Jule had said that he "didn't believe in divorce; it would be easier to do away with them." Jule also showed her several aerial photos that he had taken of a forest and the insurance agent suspected he was showing her pictures where he had buried Dottie's body.

But that would mean she's not buried in his backyard like the neighbor suggested.

-When UM re-aired the segment in the early 2000's, and man had e-mailed the show a tip about Jule. He was Jule's middle and high school classmate and had said that he wrote a paper in 7th or 8th grade titled, "How to commit the perfect murder". It creeped the teacher and the students out.

What would a 12 year old know about committing the perfect murder? I almost laughed.

Awhile back, a classmate of Jule posted on the forum. He said that Jule was the kind of person that would protect younger kids who were being bullied.

-The next door neighbor of Jule and Dottie had found a rusty meat clever hidden under some ivy on his fence after Jule had moved away and Dottie disappeared. Prior to this, Jule had asked him not to cut the ivy away because it was holding the fence up. The same neighbor said that when he was in the house (after Dottie's disappearance) helping Jule move, he could smell what smelled like burning flesh inside. Jule gave the man a 50 lb sack of sulfur for him to use "fertilizer". He also had said that he saw Jule pour a concrete slab for a patio in his backyard around the time that Dottie had disappeared.

So he smelt burning flesh, but didn't do anything about it? Jule probably built the patio to help rent out the house. That would also mean she's not buried in the forest...

-Dottie's friend, after finding out that she was missing, went to the house she shared with Jule. Jule walked her around the house and saw her clothing neatly folded in her room. She knew Dottie would have taken these things if she did in fact plan on leaving the house and going elsewhere. She asked to see Dottie's purse, and Jule showed her. She removed the contents and saw the wallet, medical card, and bee sting kit. She made a "big deal" to Jule that Dottie would have never went anywhere without her medical card or bee sting kit. She went to the house because she knew that Dottie was afraid of Jule, and thought that maybe Jule had Dottie locked up in the house against her will. She claims that Jule was more concerned with his financial situation instead of Dottie's well being.

But later you say the police went through the purse and didn't find the bee sting kit. So which is it?

-None of Dottie's friends had ever heard her talk about disappearing for a long period of time, or running off with a "mystery man". The last time she went on a date with someone other than Jule (in addition to the support groups she was in, she was also involved in a singles group) was in late of 1984. None of the men she dated ever went back on other dates with her, only one.

So is it one or none? It would be foolish of Dottie to tell them any plans she had of running off as they could blab it to police and whomever. Sounds like they were both cheating on each other.


-Dottie had told her sister that she was going to stay with a friend until Jule left and moved to Utah. Once he was in Utah, she would return to the house. Dottie's sister found out about a moving truck outside of Dottie's house and went over to confront Jule on 6/19/85. Jule had all of Dottie's belongings in the truck and was planning on taking them to Utah with him. Dottie's sister began to yell and question why he was taking Dottie's things if she planned on coming back home when he left. Jule was reluctant to let them take anything, and said that Dottie could get the things in Utah if she ever resurfaced. Jule also never had called Dottie's sister from 6/12 up until she confronted him on 6/19/85 to ask about Dottie's whereabouts. In the police report that Jule filed, he had Dottie listed under her maiden name. Dottie's sister said that was "about as close to distancing as you could get".

But that suggests Jule's story that she went to visit a friend is true. The CP link says that Dottie had packed up Jule's belongings and put them in storage, even before the events you claim happened. So if Jule did that, it was probably in retaliation. Some missing persons agencies refer to her as "Dorothy May Rusnack Caylor"

-Jule repeatedly turned down offers from police, Dottie's sister, and Della Vigil to take a polygraph test. A polygraph expert even suggested that he only answer one question with regards to knowing the whereabouts of Dottie, and he still refused.

So it's not suspicious that Tim McClure and his wife both lied on their polygraph, but you get on Jule's case because he refused to take one? Pick a horse.

--Dottie's parents passed away in 1997 and 2005. She did not attend the funeral services or sent a "mystery" card or flowers, etc.

If she left and didn't care for anyone to find her, I doubt she'd turn up at a funeral.

-In 2004, the police looked into Dottie's purse and inventoried the contents. They found the instructions on how to use the bee sting kit, but not the actual bee sting kit. Dottie would have needed these instructions to use it. She would have taken them with the kit, but she didn't.

But Dottie's friend said she found the bee sting kit. You said that above.

-ETA: Several of Dottie's friends confirmed that she was in a support group that specified in helping battered women prepare to leave their husbands and file for divorce. She apparently was involved in several other support groups, and dating groups as well.

Estimated time of arrival? Since Dottie was keeping secret monies and documents at her friend's house, wouldn't it be wise for her to also have photographs taken of her body after it had been abused by Jule and also put them in the file cabinet at her friend's house?

Some more interesting tidbits:

-After the UM segment aired in 87, a caller identifying himself as Larry Dewitt called the police department and said that he recognized Dottie from her photos shown on the broadcast. He claimed that in November of 1985, Dottie came into his office to answer an ad for a legal secretary. He claims that Dottie identified herself as "Dottie Caylor or something similar" and that she didn't want her husband or family to know where she was. He claimed that he let Dottie assume his dead sister's name to get her a new identity and that he hired her to work at his firm.

Police did everything they could to follow up on this lead and came up empty. They could find no Larry Dewitt who was a paralegal in the Chicago area (the information he provided to detectives), and the number he provided them was disconnected. They became skeptical of the authenticity because the man claimed to have simply given this woman whom he had never met before all of his sister's personal information so she could resume her identity and start a new life, all because he needed a secretary. Also, the only information he could provide about Dottie were things mentioned in the UM segment. Dottie's sister listened to the call, and said it definitely was not Jule Caylor.

-In 2004 detectives interviewed a friend of Dottie's who was in the same singles group claims to have seen Dottie once at a shopping center in 1986. She said she saw her and that Dottie appeared "shocked", and that she avoided eye contact with her after that. She never approached her to ask if she was Dottie, and conceded that it could have been a woman who looked a lot like Dottie. This friend also told police she had "visions", was psychic, and detailed various special abilities she had.

Detectives didn't believe her story because when interviewed by the original detective assigned to the case in 1986, she told him she was not sure that the woman she saw was Dottie.

-Dottie had met a man from the singles group she attended and had gone out on a date with him. Detectives found a angry letter she wrote to him saying that she essentially wanted to cease contact with him, and that "J's back so if you don't want him on your trail, cease mailings to my residence - your fears of him are well founded."

Detectives questioned the man who said he and Dottie went out on a date together, and that she had bought him a Van Gogh art print. He wasn't sure what the painting was, and Dottie made a condescending remark to him that made him mad. They began to argue throughout the night and eventually it got so heated that he pulled over and put her out and made her take a cab home. He began to write letters to her saying that if he ever saw her at the singles group meetings, he would simply leave. Detectives could find no evidence that this man ever tried to contact Dottie after she mailed that threatening letter to him about "J" (Jule). The man also was never considered a suspect in her disappearance.

Honestly, all of that seems to suggest Dottie wasn't murdered by Jule.

-In 2004, Detectives scanned Jule's backyard where he poured the concrete patio with a radar device and found an "anomaly" underneath it.

So did they dig it up?

-I think they have enough circumstantial evidence to warrant an arrest, but then again I'm no legal expert. They have all of the letters Dottie had written to Jule's parents (saying various times how he threatened to kill her), Jule's ex-fiancee who also heard him say very incriminating remarks, Jule and Dottie's neighbors, Dottie's friends, family, etc. I'm guessing they are just waiting to find Dottie's body before they go ahead and charge Jule.

It's interesting to note we don't know if Jule ever threatened Dottie's life. We do know Dottie threatened the life of the man she was cheating on Jule with. I think that says more about Dottie than Jule, honestly.

-The UM segment, for those that don't know, is very misleading. I know some posters have picked up on it in other threads and prior posts, but Dottie did not have a severe bout of agoraphobia. She was involved in not only the group for battered women, but also a singles group, groups within her church, and a support group for women who were married who planned on getting divorced and living alone. She was fairly social at the time she disappeared. She had several friends, was going out on dates, and had her own little "secret" life that she kept from Jule. The UM segment makes it appear like because of Jule being away for work "50%" of the time, Dottie became lonely at home and developed her agoraphobia as a result. But I honestly believe it was due to physical and emotional abuse by Jule for years that caused her to become sheltered and slightly agoraphobic. Jule Caylor is a scumbag of a husband, not to mention a scumbag of a human being. After learning more information about this case, that makes me more sick to my stomach while watching his interview on UM. What a POS, saying that life has been "really pretty good" since Dottie disappeared. It was "really pretty good" because he killed her and to this day has gotten away with it.

I don't think Jule totally buried Dottie in the segment. At one point, he says "It was Hell having her disappear the way she did.", which I took to mean that he even though he didn't care to be married to her anymore, he didn't want to see anything bad happen to her.

Why wouldn't he use up the sick leave and vacation time? He wasn't working at the job for much longer. He wanted to use it before he would lose it.

No he wanted to use it so he could clean up the crime scene and ditch Dottie's body.

Oh yeah. I'm sure the dog would just sleep right through that. We know he's a dog lover because the segment shows him at home with his dogs.

Ok. Believe what you will.

Why would Jule say that? He said he wasn't surprised when they viewed him as a potential person of interest in Dottie's case because it's natural to suspect those closest to you. Yet, he figures he could get away with another wife's murder and they won't even look at him?

He owned a large piece of property in Oregon, that allegedly you had to hike to get to. He told Dottie he could disappear there or in the "Alaskan wilderness" if he wanted to.

But that would mean she's not buried in his backyard like the neighbor suggested.

Doesn't mean one way or the other. It was the insurance agent's opinion that he was bragging about offing Dottie and burying her body in a forest somewhere. An insurance agent, who didn't even know Jule, picked up on these things and was highly suspicious of him. What does that tell you?

What would a 12 year old know about committing the perfect murder? I almost laughed.

It shows he was disturbed since a young age.

So he smelt burning flesh, but didn't do anything about it? Jule probably built the patio to help rent out the house. That would also mean she's not buried in the forest...

The guy didn't connect the smell in the house to Dottie's disappearance until 2 years after Jule moved away when he found the cleaver hanging on his side of the fence. He didn't discover it until 1987.

But later you say the police went through the purse and didn't find the bee sting kit. So which is it?

Uh, this was prior to Jule reporting Dottie missing with the police. The friend looked through the contents, saw the bee sting kit, made a "big deal" about it to Jule, who then ditched it after realizing that it made the story of Dottie disappearing more believable before turning it into police.

So is it one or none? It would be foolish of Dottie to tell them any plans she had of running off as they could blab it to police and whomever. Sounds like they were both cheating on each other.

She went on dates with several men, just not more than one date. Why would these friends blab any plan of running off to police if they knew she feared Jule and that Jule was abusive to her in the past?

But that suggests Jule's story that she went to visit a friend is true. The CP link says that Dottie had packed up Jule's belongings and put them in storage, even before the events you claim happened. So if Jule did that, it was probably in retaliation. Some missing persons agencies refer to her as "Dorothy May Rusnack Caylor"

She was supposed to return on 6/24/85 to the house. Jule reported her missing on 6/17. Why would he do this if he knew she still wasn't supposed to be home yet? And why rent the house out without her knowledge? Where would she go?

So it's not suspicious that Tim McClure and his wife both lied on their polygraph, but you get on Jule's case because he refused to take one? Pick a horse.

You're obsession with McClure is hilarious.

If she left and didn't care for anyone to find her, I doubt she'd turn up at a funeral.

:lol:

But Dottie's friend said she found the bee sting kit. You said that above.

She did. Prior to police knowing...oh nevermind, your mind is made up and no amount of facts are going to change that.

Estimated time of arrival? Since Dottie was keeping secret monies and documents at her friend's house, wouldn't it be wise for her to also have photographs taken of her body after it had been abused by Jule and also put them in the file cabinet at her friend's house?

Uh...she did have pictures of a bruised and lacerated eye that Jule gave her in her file cabinet that she kept at her friend's house.

Honestly, all of that seems to suggest Dottie wasn't murdered by Jule.

No it doesn't. None of those leads were credible.

So did they dig it up?

To my knowledge, no.

It's interesting to note we don't know if Jule ever threatened Dottie's life. We do know Dottie threatened the life of the man she was cheating on Jule with. I think that says more about Dottie than Jule, honestly.

Did you not read the quote from Dottie's letter to Jule's parents where she repeatedly referenced him threatening to "pop her off" and how he's constantly threatened to murder her for years?!

Jule was running around on Dottie for YEARS, abandoning her for extended periods of time so he could run off and have his little secret liaisons with his mistresses. She got sick of it, knew the marriage was dissolving, knew that they were divorcing, so she decided to join a singles group and go out on dates. Not "cheating".

I don't think Jule totally buried Dottie in the segment.

No he buried her prior to the filming of the segment.

TheCars1986, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about this case. Just out of curiousity, where did you obtain all of this information? I've Googled Jule and Dottie Caylor's name in the past and did not come up with even half of the stuff you posted here. If true, it's very interesting!

She went on dates with several men, just not more than one date. Why would these friends blab any plan of running off to police if they knew she feared Jule and that Jule was abusive to her in the past?

How would Jule track her down if he doesn't know her whereabouts?

She was supposed to return on 6/24/85 to the house. Jule reported her missing on 6/17. Why would he do this if he knew she still wasn't supposed to be home yet? And why rent the house out without her knowledge? Where would she go?

But then you get on his case for him not reporting her missing sooner. Your tendency to like having things both ways is remarkable.

You're obsession with McClure is hilarious.

:lol:

She did. Prior to police knowing...oh nevermind, your mind is made up and no amount of facts are going to change that.

Fun fact: On your first day on the boards in late 2008, you blasted me for having a Bob Bean avatar and referred to Dorothy Wacker's injuries as relatively minor. That was 7 years ago. And I fully expect we will still be doing this in 2022.

Uh...she did have pictures of a bruised and lacerated eye that Jule gave her in her file cabinet that she kept at her friend's house.

Uh, where do you get this from?


The guy didn't connect the smell in the house to Dottie's disappearance until 2 years after Jule moved away when he found the cleaver hanging on his side of the fence. He didn't discover it until 1987.


Was this the police officer neighbor?

TheCars1986, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about this case. Just out of curiousity, where did you obtain all of this information? I've Googled Jule and Dottie Caylor's name in the past and did not come up with even half of the stuff you posted here. If true, it's very interesting!

All of this stuff comes from a probable cause affidavit filed in 2004 or 2005 by the police in Concord, CA. They gathered all pertinent facts and placed them together to try and obtain a search warrant at Jule and Dottie's house in Concord.

Everything was detailed by police in this affidavit. Jule Caylor is guilty, they just don't have Dottie's body.

I mentioned this awhile back and it's important to restate: Dottie liked to meet men at the BART station and frequently asked to be dropped off there. So even if Dottie never boarded a train and never planned to go to the friend's house (which are 2 huge if's), that doesn't mean Jule is guilty. As Jule theorized, I think it's possible Dottie got involved with the wrong people from the start.

And if Dottie is buried in the backyard of their old house, why don't they dig it up?

Writing an essay about how to commit a perfect murder isn't perverse or telling. I read lots of gory fiction growing up in the '70s and '80s and tried writing some of it myself at 12 and 13. Often we try to reproduce what we write to see what we can get away with.

I know this point is made to establish a pattern of guilt, but come on. I think most posters are rattled by how nonplussed Jule Caylor came off in the segment. There's enough evidence showing that he's a bully but he's not a hypocrite about it.

Writing an essay about how to commit a perfect murder isn't perverse or telling. I read lots of gory fiction growing up in the '70s and '80s and tried writing some of it myself at 12 and 13. Often we try to reproduce what we write to see what we can get away with.

I know this point is made to establish a pattern of guilt, but come on. I think most posters are rattled by how nonplussed Jule Caylor came off in the segment. There's enough evidence showing that he's a bully but he's not a hypocrite about it.

kids that age like to goof around a lot and test their boundaries. I think it was a factor of those things and not a precursor to him being a "murderer"

There is nothing mentioned in the probable cause affidavit that says Dottie liked to meet men at the BART station.

"Prior to January of 1985, Dottie had participated in a few singles groups and dated a few men. But, during a conversation with Diane Rusnak in December of 1984, she shared with her that she was not going to date anymore until after the divorce and Jule was gone to Utah."

And, she never told any of her friends she was coming to visit them during the period Jule claims she left. Jule Caylor is the only source of: dropping Dottie off at the BART station, Dottie entering the BART station, and Dottie's "plan" of leaving until he came back from Utah. None of Dottie's friends came forward to verify that they were the ones she was supposed to be staying with.

On June 4th, she had told a friend of hers that she wanted "Jule to know what it feels like to be left alone." She asked where she would stay and she told her she could stay with a mutual friend named Shelley "for a few days" and that it was not to disappear completely.

There is nothing mentioned in the probable cause affidavit that says Dottie liked to meet men at the BART station.

"Prior to January of 1985, Dottie had participated in a few singles groups and dated a few men. But, during a conversation with Diane Rusnak in December of 1984, she shared with her that she was not going to date anymore until after the divorce and Jule was gone to Utah."

And, she never told any of her friends she was coming to visit them during the period Jule claims she left. Jule Caylor is the only source of: dropping Dottie off at the BART station, Dottie entering the BART station, and Dottie's "plan" of leaving until he came back from Utah. None of Dottie's friends came forward to verify that they were the ones she was supposed to be staying with.

On June 4th, she had told a friend of hers that she wanted "Jule to know what it feels like to be left alone." She asked where she would stay and she told her she could stay with a mutual friend named Shelley "for a few days" and that it was not to disappear completely.

Didn't say it came from there.

But while we're on the subject, do you have any proof of any of these things you're writing about?

Didn't say it came from there.

But while we're on the subject, do you have any proof of any of these things you're writing about?

I have the probable cause affidavit.

I have the probable cause affidavit.

can you scan it?

can you scan it?

I can e-mail it to anyone who wants a copy.

I can e-mail it to anyone who wants a copy.

yes please, my e-mail address should be available in my profile.

Wow, I always felt she ran off for a new life. He damn well just looked pitiful to me. Never suspected him. I guess I should read up more on it.

I flip-flop on this one. So many things point to BOTH sides of the coin. If Jule murdered Dottie then where is she? Why has there never been a trace of anything leading to his arrest? Blood or a fight someone over heard or anything. Is Jule Caylor really that clean and polished of a murderer?

I flip-flop on this one. So many things point to BOTH sides of the coin. If Jule murdered Dottie then where is she? Why has there never been a trace of anything leading to his arrest? Blood or a fight someone over heard or anything. Is Jule Caylor really that clean and polished of a murderer?

Plenty of bodies go undetected or uncovered forever. My question would be, if Dottie is alive, why hasn't a single trace of her ever been seen or heard from? No credible sightings, social security hits, etc.. Nothing.

Plenty of bodies go undetected or uncovered forever. My question would be, if Dottie is alive, why hasn't a single trace of her ever been seen or heard from? No credible sightings, social security hits, etc.. Nothing.

She was an agoraphobic, so I can imagine her living somewhere as a recluse. If she's living with someone else, she might not have to go out often.

Dottie was not as agoraphobic as the UM segment would lead one to believe. She was seeing men, attending singles groups, and had plenty of female friends, as well as family. People simply don't vanish without contacting anyone. Especially when she was sending cards to friends counting down the days until Jule left her and being excited about her new found freedom.

At what point prior to her vanishing had she never contacted her close family members or friends for years?! She was trying to make new friends, date a bit and start a new life away from Jules (whom between his letter about a salad and his history of lying seemed like a twisted individual)

To the Jules supporters,

1) Jules had physical assaulted her prior to her disappearance.

2) Jules new girlfriend became terrified of him and came to believe he was responsible for Dottie disappearance. He left him pretty fast.

3)Even his daughter from his marriage prior to Dottie, became suspicious when she questioned him about Dottie and her disappearance.

4) Jules lied to Dottie when he first met her about his own name and important details of his life (Doesn't prove he's a murderer but shows he compulsively lies.)

5) There was a huge dispute about selling the home when he moved away and Dottie wanting to live there. He even put it in his rabbling bizarre letter.

6)He could've buried or disposed of the body anywhere.


If Jules is innocent so is OJ

The salad thing is more laughable than anything else. I don't think we can draw the assumption that he was a twisted individual based on that alone.

I didn't base it on that alone. I based on it all those points

that was quick.

Throw everything else about the case out. Just considering these facts (Dottie disappeared on June 12th, according to Jule):

-Jule took a full day off on June 11th.
-Jule showed up to work for an hour and a half on June 12th, and then took the rest of the day off.
-Jule went back to work on June 13th, but left 4 hours early.
-Jule took another full day off on June 14th.
-Jule, despite believing Dottie was going to return after 2 weeks, packed all of Dottie's belongings and was in the process of moving them to Utah on June 19th before Dottie's sister confronted him.

^These are not the actions of an innocent man. Not once did he say he took time off because he was concerned for Dottie, searching for Dottie, etc. As a matter of fact, if you believe Jule's story, he thought Dottie was going to be away for 2 weeks. So why take the time off from work? Unless of course you honestly believe he was sick, which seems preposterous to me.

Just out of curiosity, Wiseguy, where did you find these documents? I'd love tobe able to read through them.

This is more fun to read than the documents Paul Freshour released before his death.

Don't forget Wendy's!

Don't believe everything that you read. There are pertinent details being left out for the sole purpose of absolving Jule to make Dottie look "unusual" and responsible for her own disappearance.

-I think we can rule out Jule murdering Dottie at the house since there is zero physical evidence there, and it would be pretty stupid of him to vacate it immediately after (which he did), leaving the door open for whomever to find blood splatter, etc.

I also think we can rule out Jule murdering Dottie in either his or her car for this reason: We know that Dottie's car was in the BART parking lot for several days, as was Jule's. The BART parking lots (at least that particular one) was described as being mostly full much of the time. Jule also moved Dottie's car several times to prevent it from being ticketed or towed. I highly doubt Jule, if he murdered Dottie in either one of the cars, would allow said car to be seen in public so frequently just after the murder AND run the risk of it being towed where numerous people would have access to it and could have searched it. Also taking into account Jule's back pain at the time and Dottie's considerable weight, it was near impossible for him murder her, load her into the car, drive her and dump her somewhere.

So if Jule didn't murder her in the house or either of the cars, that doesn't leave us with very much. I suppose he could have lured her somewhere in the early morning hours or whatever, but I think that's stretching.

Why not post the documents here in their entirety in a pdf format or at least provide a link to the source(s)? Anyone who's interested will then have an opportunity to peruse the information themselves.

Why not post the documents here in their entirety in a pdf format or at least provide a link to the source(s)? Anyone who's interested will then have an opportunity to peruse the information themselves.

The file is too large, IIRC.

It was on the net awhile back, but it's been removed.

The file is too large, IIRC.

It was on the net awhile back, but it's been removed.

That's too bad, since it sounds like UM left out a lot of pertinent information, especially about Dottie's refusal to sign the loan Jule wanted. I'm wondering when their house was sold, who received the monies from the sale.

If he wanted a quicker divorce and her cooperation as far as the loan, he was shooting himself in the foot as far as his actions. You don't remove or attempt to take your spouse's possessions, including her car, and draw up a rental contract without her knowledge and consent, especially if you've had a prior mutual agreement that she would continue to live in the home. Those actions could have been held against him in divorce proceedings. Of course, there's the high probability that he knew that he had nothing to worry about from Dottie or her attorney.

That's too bad, since it sounds like UM left out a lot of pertinent information, especially about Dottie's refusal to sign the loan Jule wanted. I'm wondering when their house was sold, who received the monies from the sale.

If he wanted a quicker divorce and her cooperation as far as the loan, he was shooting himself in the foot as far as his actions. You don't remove or attempt to take your spouse's possessions, including her car, and draw up a rental contract without her knowledge and consent, especially if you've had a prior mutual agreement that she would continue to live in the home. Those actions could have been held against him in divorce proceedings. Of course, there's the high probability that he knew that he had nothing to worry about from Dottie or her attorney.

Jule and Dottie had a disagreement about rent. Jule asked for $400 a month. Dottie offered $300 a month, then as an insult, counteroffered with $200 a month. The house was eventually listed for rent in the newspaper at $649 a month. Jule only rented out the house because Dottie disappeared and he felt he didn't have any other options.

Dottie packed up Jule's belongings, and I believe Jule did the same with Dottie's as a retaliatory measure. I don't believe he ever discarded anything, at least not for several years. Jule offered Dottie's sister to come to his new house and take anything she wanted. She refused.

Not sure about the car, but I believe it was over 20 years old at that point and not worth much.

Jule and Dottie had a disagreement about rent. Jule asked for $400 a month. Dottie offered $300 a month, then as an insult, counteroffered with $200 a month. The house was eventually listed for rent in the newspaper at $649 a month. Jule only rented out the house because Dottie disappeared and he felt he didn't have any other options.

Renting out the home could be construed as a hostile act, if they had reached an agreement that Dottie was going to live in the house. Depending on CA's laws at the time, he necessarily didn't have the right to rent out the marital home without her permission, simply because they didn't agree on the amount and she couldn't be located.

Dottie packed up Jule's belongings, and I believe Jule did the same with Dottie's as a retaliatory measure. I don't believe he ever discarded anything, at least not for several years. Jule offered Dottie's sister to come to his new house and take anything she wanted. She refused.


Jule was genuinely screwing himself over as far as a future divorce settlement if he, like everyone else, anticipated Dottie's return. In typical circumstances, Dottie would have returned from her trip, become angered at his actions and contacted a good divorce lawyer to turn the screws on Jule or get the better deal in a divorce (which it sounds like she would have received). There goes his chances at getting her to sign that loan or pay a higher rent. I guess Jule should thank his stars that he wasn't married to Betty Broderick.

Some interesting information about both Dottie and Jule. I think I recall someone posting on a thread that Dottie's sister later sued Jule and settled (for insurance benefits or proceeds from the house, I'm not certain).

A few more questions...

Some people have theorized that Jule buried her in the forest, where he would have knowledge on how to hide a body. If that's the case, why didn't he bury her purse and overnight bag with her? Because he would have to know that her purse and overnight bag being left behind would draw more attention to him since it's more unlikely than likely she would have left those things behind.

I really don't know why Dottie transferred money from her bank account to a cashier's check and let the thing sit idle for some time. That seems like an incredibly stupid thing to do. If the check becomes lost, then the person could be out that money. It also has an expiration date, meaning the person has to use it by a certain date or they're out the money in that instance also. I have some familiarity with cashier's checks, although not in recent times. My knowledge of them is that they're somewhat like money orders in that you get them for a specific purpose. So I guess my question is, what was the purpose of Dottie doing this? I understand she wanted to keep money away from Jule, but why not just keep the money in a savings or checking account if she planned on not going anywhere?

To further expand on this point, some people have theorized that Dottie was murdered because she wouldn't have let the $5,080 cashier's check expire. I say, why did she get it in the first place? My guess is that she got the money transferred to a cashier's check because she staged her disappearance and knew any activity on a banking account of any kind could be traced to her. A cashier's check would leave less of a paper trail. I think she meant to take it with her and simply forgot about it or didn't feel like going back and getting it for one of a number of reasons.

$5,080 is a lot of money, especially in those days. I just can't imagine why she would transfer it into something so risky. Heck, even getting a series of traveler's checks would have been a better option.

That's too bad, since it sounds like UM left out a lot of pertinent information, especially about Dottie's refusal to sign the loan Jule wanted. I'm wondering when their house was sold, who received the monies from the sale.

If he wanted a quicker divorce and her cooperation as far as the loan, he was shooting himself in the foot as far as his actions. You don't remove or attempt to take your spouse's possessions, including her car, and draw up a rental contract without her knowledge and consent, especially if you've had a prior mutual agreement that she would continue to live in the home. Those actions could have been held against him in divorce proceedings. Of course, there's the high probability that he knew that he had nothing to worry about from Dottie or her attorney.

Yet another reason that points squarely at Jule Caylor as the murderer of Dottie. Jule claims that Dottie was leaving on the 12th to go away for approximately 2 weeks. Then on June 19th, he's moving her stuff out and taking them to Utah so he could rent the place out, despite the fact that he admitted that the plan was for Dottie to remain in their house in Concord once she returned, while Jule would move to Utah. So if Jule honestly had nothing to do with Dottie's death, why would he be moving her things out of the house just 7 days after her "leaving"? To make matters worse for Jule, he signed the rental agreement on June 7th. 5 days prior to Dottie's alleged going away trip for two weeks. And the rental agreement only required on signature: Jule's. Dottie did not need to sign the agreement. Dottie was present, but she probably believed that the agreement was something that was going to be worked out between her paying rent to Jule to stay in the house in Concord. She had no idea he was going to murder her and rent the house to others.

A couple of other things that people have been misleading on:

-Dottie's sister deposited the $5,080 cashier's check into Dottie's bank account shortly after the check was discovered. There have been no activities on Dottie's bank accounts (she had several) since her disappearance.
-Jule never called anyone of Dottie's friends or family inquiring about Dottie. He claims he did this because Dottie "hid" the numbers from him. Despite having Dottie's sister's phone number, she was the one who called him when a friend of Dottie called her to let her know about Dottie's disappearance.
-Despite Jule's first wife describing Jule as a "gentle speaking person", she also said he shot a stray cat for simply jumping on a windowsill and coming into their home, and also chased a would be burglar away with a knife before going into detail about how he would have killed him if he caught him.
-A friend of Dottie's claimed to have seen her in 1989 at a singles support group meeting. She claimed she was thinner and was wearing a dress. She gave the police the name of a man who led the meeting. The police interviewed the man, and he says that he never saw Dottie again after her disappearance. He also said Dottie stopped coming to meetings within that group shortly before she disappeared. The original detective who interviewed Dottie's friend got the impression that she was remembering a meeting prior to Dottie's disappearance and putting a later date on it. This interview was done 7 years after Dottie's disappearance.
-Dottie's sister found a BART ticket in her purse and handed it over to police. The police found that the ticket had a $5 balance and that it had been used twice. Once for $1.95 and the last time for $1.35. Even if Dottie used it, she couldn't have gone far.
-The police had the BART station scan the ticket, which resulted in a code of 33-5-3. The 33 was the code for the Concord BART station. The 5 was the time of day, between 6:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. that the ticket was used. The 3 was the day of the week (since the sequence of dates frequently changed, there was no real way of determining the exact day the ticket was used).
-Here's the exact excerpt from the probable cause affidavit regarding the verifying of the ticket:

"I extrapolated all of the values of all the code 3 days in the month of June 1985 by the following process. According to Diane Rusnak's [Dottie's sister] notes, she had the BART ticket scanned on 6/19/87. Diane was told by the station agent that 6/19/87 was a code 4 day. I back tracked from that day to June 1985. The code 3 days in June 1985 were 6/4, 6/12, 6/20, 6/28. The purse was in Detective Maich's possession on 6/19/85. The only days in June that the ticket was could have been used was 6/4 and 6/12 between 1800 and 2100 hours. 6/12/85 was the day Jule said he dropped off Dottie at the Pleasant Hill BART Station. The ticket could have been last used in any month prior to June 1985. I can not conclusively say which day the BART ticket was last used."

In other words, Jule claims to have dropped Dottie off at the Pleasant Hill station on June 12th, but the ticket found in Dottie's purse was used at the Concord station. He also claimed to have dropped her off "in the morning" at the Pleasant Hill station. The ticket was used at the Concord station in the evening hours, at a completely different station. Coincidentally the same station (Concord) where Jule would conveniently find Dottie's car the next day he claims to have last seen her. So in other words, for Jule to have been innocent the following would have had to have happened:

Jule drives Dottie to the Pleasant Hill station and drops her off. For reasons unknown, she leaves the station and somehow gets back to her house to get her car. Then for reasons even more inexplicable, she then drives her car to another BART station in Concord and boards, but doesn't go very far ($1.35 was the last fare used). Then she simply vanishes into thin air.

It's obvious to me what happened. Jule killed Dottie, then planted her car at the Concord station lot. Then he bought the ticket and used it at the Concord station to make it appear like Dottie was the one using it. This explains how he found the car so quickly, and also why the ticket was used on the evening hours of June 12th.

It's interesting to note that Jule Caylor isn't bothered at all at the police considering him a suspect. Contrast to Tim McClure, who practically freaked out that the police even so much as asked him a few questions about it.

I'm going to do a complete a 180 and say I honestly don't think Jule is responsible. He has never abused any other woman, comes across as very mild-mannered and intelligent and somebody that went to grade school with him said that Jule would protect the smaller kids from being bullied by the larger kids. Yes, Jule is what a lot of people would consider odd and his various affairs won't win him any awards, but I don't think he's capable of cold blooded, pre-meditated murder. I think in the off chance he did kill Dottie it was probably out of self defense.

Jule has allowed the police and various acquaintances of Dottie free access to things and has never given the impression he has something to hide in regards to her disappearance. I really don't think she was murdered at the house as there is simply no evidence there despite numerous police searches and such. I also don't think he would murder Dottie in either of their cars and then park said car at a busy parking lot where anyone could have access to it. I don't think someone as inexperienced in criminal matters such as Jule could pull off leaving zero physical evidence and get away with it for 30 years as Jule would have if he was guilty.

Another question I want to pose is this: Why would Jule state that he drove Dottie to the BART station, as opposed to just saying Dottie drove herself? This is another thing that Jule would have to know would cast more suspicion on himself if he is the verified last person to have seen her. Jule would have to know it would be more intelligent to just say he last saw Dottie take off in her car and let the police eventually find it. It is true that after many years, Jule then said he thought Dottie drove herself, but I think he had just moved on with his life and forgot some of the details of the case.

Consider this: I suppose it's possible Jule could have driven Dottie's car to the BART station on June 12 or thereabouts to give the appearance Dottie engineered her own disappearance or she ran into trouble there. But that runs the risk of not only being seen by someone in a busy parking lot, but also needing someway to get home. Did he take a taxi? Surely he knows a taxi driver could spill the beans. And since we now know for a fact a BART ticket was found in Dottie's possessions, it also means Jule would have most likely had to go into the terminal and purchase a ticket. It leaves too much to chance IMO and he runs the risk of being spotted by any number of people. Nobody has ever come forward to say they saw Jule on that day dropping off Dottie's car, purchasing a ticket to plant in her purse, or giving him a ride home that day.

The only other option is if Jule took his own car to the BART station and had somebody else drive Dottie's car there, but again, that would require at least one person "in the know" and again he runs the risk of being spotted.

I understand how Jule can rub people the wrong way, at least at first. But I think when you really sit down and examine everything, the pieces just don't fit in terms of Jule offing her.

FWIW, with all the information presented on the show and elsewhere...there is just no proof that he did it. They're both odd abrasive people when you break it all down.

UM painted Dottie as a battered wife who was just beginning to seek escape, but with all the petty bickering with Jule and other issues...it sounds far more likely that Dottie was always "the victim". There are just many things that aren't typical of a battered spouse for the scenario UM described (multiple bank accounts, her own car, etc.). It seems far more likely they were mutually awful to each other with a waxing/waning relationship that neither actually wanted to act on to end it. I think his actions are made more odd by the fact that she's not around - someone stuck with their ex's stuff and packing it up rather than leaving it behind when they move wouldn't be odd/weird if their ex was still known to be alive, etc.

I think if the situation was flipped around, people would think Dottie killed Jule with the aid of someone from her singles nights. Seems more likely everyone was focused on Jule being an abrasive jerk and missed another suspect - like someone she was having an affair with.

http://i.stack.imgur.com/jiFfM.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zclxv9thwqrxp7f/Dottie%20Caylor.zip?dl=0

There you go. Read it and see for yourselves why Jule Caylor is guilty as sin.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zclxv9thwqrxp7f/Dottie%20Caylor.zip?dl=0

There you go. Read it and see for yourselves why Jule Caylor is guilty as sin.

You are awesome! I'll have to give this a read and share my thoughts later. I've always been inclined to believe Jule is guilty, but I do find it fascinating that two different people could read this and have such differing opinions of his guilt.

You are awesome! I'll have to give this a read and share my thoughts later. I've always been inclined to believe Jule is guilty, but I do find it fascinating that two different people could read this and have such differing opinions of his guilt.

When you are selectively reading and posting information favorable to Jule, then it wouldn't seem like such a stretch.

I think there's too much general weirdness associated with this case for me to believe Jule is guilty. The sightings of Dottie after her disappearance -- from people who knew her, the very suspicious actions on the part of a lot of people close to her around the time she vanished, etc. I think Jule may have been correct when he said that 'Dottie disappeared on her own accord, and then was helped to permanently disappear.'

The segment made a big deal about Jule waiting 5 days to file the missing persons report, but there are several explanations for that. One, and as I mentioned before, a police officer neighbor of Jule's told him to wait several days as he was under the assumption that Dottie would return. And two, I don't think Jule cared enough to ask her where she was going or for how long, so he probably figured she could still return at that point.

Nobody has answered any of my questions, but here's one more: If Dottie was so petrified of Jule, why would she remain in the house? According to at least one friend, her plan was to stay away and room with one of her friends until Jule moved, and then move back into the Greer Avenue house, so why would she change her plans if her claims that he wanted to "pop her off" were true?

Okay, after reading that entire probable cause affidavit, I'm more convinced than ever that Jule Caylor is guilty, but I think the most damning thing against him is his unbelievable story about Dottie's "trip" and his actions when she went missing. Jule claimed that Dottie probably wasn't going to return from her trip until after he left for Salt Lake City on June 24, yet he reports her missing and moves all of her possessions out of the house several days before she's scheduled to return home?! Granted, it's not implausible that Jule could have changed his outlook after unexpectedly finding Dottie's abandoned vehicle in the parking lot, but the strange notes he left in her car open up so many holes in his story.

It's bizarre enough that Jule starts off these notes by telling Dottie how lonely he is and how much needs her, as so many other people described how cold and indifferent he acted after she disappeared. But then he instantly transitions into long rants about Dottie not co-signing the loan papers which would allow him to finance his new home in Utah. He actually uses the phrase "you really screwed up my life" and goes on about how he has no alternative but to rent out their house. This makes no sense to me! Jule claimed that Dottie wasn't scheduled to come back until June 24th at the earliest, which is over a week after Jule left the note. How can he be so certain she isn't coming back? And if this loan is so vitally important for Jule to pay for his new home, why would he even let Dottie go on this two-week trip in the first place (without even telling him where she was going!) when the loan papers weren't signed? Hell, he even claimed that she wasn't planning to return until AFTER HE MOVED TO UTAH, which isn't going to help him too much if he needs the loan money for his new house! Honestly, if Jule's story had been that Dottie's trip was only supposed to be two or three days and that she never returned, I might be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I just can't get past him essentially purging Dottie's existence from his life several days before she was scheduled to come home.

The most chilling part of the affidavit are the details of how Jule told his secret fiancee, Deanna Vigil (whom he had been engaged to since December 1984!) about Dottie's disappearance that Christmas, and that his behavior disturbed her so much that she genuinely feared for her life and never had a face-to-face meeting with him again! Interestingly enough, nobody else, from the investigators to Dottie's friends and family, found out that Jule was engaged to another woman until after the UM segment aired! If UM had known about Jule's secret engagement beforehand, we might have seen a completely different segment.

That said, even with all this suspicious circumstantial evidence against Jule, I still don't think there's enough to charge him with anything, and without a body or any hard evidence that a crime was committed, I doubt a jury would find him guilty with what they have right now.

Okay, after reading that entire probable cause affidavit, I'm more convinced than ever that Jule Caylor is guilty, but I think the most damning thing against him is his unbelievable story about Dottie's "trip" and his actions when she went missing. Jule claimed that Dottie probably wasn't going to return from her trip until after he left for Salt Lake City on June 24, yet he reports her missing and moves all of her possessions out of the house several days before she's scheduled to return home?! Granted, it's not implausible that Jule could have changed his outlook after unexpectedly finding Dottie's abandoned vehicle in the parking lot, but the strange notes he left in her car open up so many holes in his story.

Several things here.

Jule was under considerable pressure to report Dottie missing before June 24. Namely, one of Dottie's friends interviewed in the segment, I think her name was Shelley, said she was nearly apoplectic. I think Jule was just caving into pressure there.

Dottie had packed up Jule's belongings and Jule did the same with hers afterward, so I think that's neither here nor there. For all we know, Dottie could have plotted to murder Jule. She had a tendency to throw things at him.

At least one other person, an acquaintance of Dottie, stated that Dottie planned to stay away from the house until after Jule moved. Whether this changed or not, I don't know, but at one point Dottie planned to run out the clock elsewhere until Jule moved, and then move back in.

Jule does tend to leave rambling, mushy and at times, non-sensical letters, but Dottie wasn't the only one he did that with.

It's bizarre enough that Jule starts off these notes by telling Dottie how lonely he is and how much needs her, as so many other people described how cold and indifferent he acted after she disappeared. But then he instantly transitions into long rants about Dottie not co-signing the loan papers which would allow him to finance his new home in Utah. He actually uses the phrase "you really screwed up my life" and goes on about how he has no alternative but to rent out their house. This makes no sense to me! Jule claimed that Dottie wasn't scheduled to come back until June 24th at the earliest, which is over a week after Jule left the note. How can he be so certain she isn't coming back? And if this loan is so vitally important for Jule to pay for his new home, why would he even let Dottie go on this two-week trip in the first place (without even telling him where she was going!) when the loan papers weren't signed? Hell, he even claimed that she wasn't planning to return until AFTER HE MOVED TO UTAH, which isn't going to help him too much if he needs the loan money for his new house! Honestly, if Jule's story had been that Dottie's trip was only supposed to be two or three days and that she never returned, I might be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I just can't get past him essentially purging Dottie's existence from his life several days before she was scheduled to come home.

He couldn't really force her to stay though, nor could he force her to reveal where she was headed. The notes are all over the place, but at times, he urges her to at least contact him.

The most chilling part of the affidavit are the details of how Jule told his secret fiancee, Deanna Vigil (whom he had been engaged to since December 1984!) about Dottie's disappearance that Christmas, and that his behavior disturbed her so much that she genuinely feared for her life and never had a face-to-face meeting with him again! Interestingly enough, nobody else, from the investigators to Dottie's friends and family, found out that Jule was engaged to another woman until after the UM segment aired! If UM had known about Jule's secret engagement beforehand, we might have seen a completely different segment.

Numerous people were afraid of Jule. His odd behavior confused some people I believe. There was a female motel desk clerk that was scared of him constantly hitting on her. But for all the people he was married to and had affairs with, none of them ever testified that he abused them in any way. The only exception is Dottie and I, quite frankly, don't put much stock into what she has to say given that just about everyone that knew her said she was weird, abusive, had a tendency to lie and exaggerate and was in general, not a pleasant person to be around.

Okay, after reading that entire probable cause affidavit, I'm more convinced than ever that Jule Caylor is guilty, but I think the most damning thing against him is his unbelievable story about Dottie's "trip" and his actions when she went missing. Jule claimed that Dottie probably wasn't going to return from her trip until after he left for Salt Lake City on June 24, yet he reports her missing and moves all of her possessions out of the house several days before she's scheduled to return home?! Granted, it's not implausible that Jule could have changed his outlook after unexpectedly finding Dottie's abandoned vehicle in the parking lot, but the strange notes he left in her car open up so many holes in his story.

It's bizarre enough that Jule starts off these notes by telling Dottie how lonely he is and how much needs her, as so many other people described how cold and indifferent he acted after she disappeared. But then he instantly transitions into long rants about Dottie not co-signing the loan papers which would allow him to finance his new home in Utah. He actually uses the phrase "you really screwed up my life" and goes on about how he has no alternative but to rent out their house. This makes no sense to me! Jule claimed that Dottie wasn't scheduled to come back until June 24th at the earliest, which is over a week after Jule left the note. How can he be so certain she isn't coming back? And if this loan is so vitally important for Jule to pay for his new home, why would he even let Dottie go on this two-week trip in the first place (without even telling him where she was going!) when the loan papers weren't signed? Hell, he even claimed that she wasn't planning to return until AFTER HE MOVED TO UTAH, which isn't going to help him too much if he needs the loan money for his new house! Honestly, if Jule's story had been that Dottie's trip was only supposed to be two or three days and that she never returned, I might be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I just can't get past him essentially purging Dottie's existence from his life several days before she was scheduled to come home.

The most chilling part of the affidavit are the details of how Jule told his secret fiancee, Deanna Vigil (whom he had been engaged to since December 1984!) about Dottie's disappearance that Christmas, and that his behavior disturbed her so much that she genuinely feared for her life and never had a face-to-face meeting with him again! Interestingly enough, nobody else, from the investigators to Dottie's friends and family, found out that Jule was engaged to another woman until after the UM segment aired! If UM had known about Jule's secret engagement beforehand, we might have seen a completely different segment.

That said, even with all this suspicious circumstantial evidence against Jule, I still don't think there's enough to charge him with anything, and without a body or any hard evidence that a crime was committed, I doubt a jury would find him guilty with what they have right now.

Excellent post!

Although I disagree about the circumstantial evidence part not being enough to charge him. People have been charged with less evidence. However, here's a hypothetical: if Dottie's body were found, what are the odds that Jule Caylor gets arrested and convicted? I'd say 100%. If that's all that's preventing Jule from being arrested and tried, that doesn't speak well for the theory that he's innocent.

For all we know, Dottie could have plotted to murder Jule. She had a tendency to throw things at him.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/374/confused-mike-brown.jpg

wendy's salad bar tho

Jule was under considerable pressure to report Dottie missing before June 24. Namely, one of Dottie's friends interviewed in the segment, I think her name was Shelley, said she was nearly apoplectic. I think Jule was just caving into pressure there.

And Jule was also caught in his some lies about his interactions with these people when Dottie was reported missing. In one of the notes Jule left for Dottie, he wrote “Are you with Shelley? She called a few days ago, but she has not called back, so you must be with her”. But Shelley claimed that she called Dottie’s house numerous times after the 12th, but Jule never answered until the 17th when he informed her Dottie was missing.

Likewise, he told police that he called Dottie’s sister, Diane, to tell her she had disappeared, but Diane always claimed that she found out about it from one of Dottie’s friends and that she had to call Jule and pressure him to file a missing persons report. This was five days after Dottie left and Jule never attempted to contact Diane to ask if she had heard from her.

He couldn't really force her to stay though, nor could he force her to reveal where she was headed. The notes are all over the place, but at times, he urges her to at least contact him.

Sure, he couldn’t prevent Dottie from leaving or force her to disclose where she was going, but it’s awfully strange that he would still agree to drive her to the BART station with this unresolved issue with the loan still hanging over them, especially since Dottie had her own vehicle and could have driven herself.

Numerous people were afraid of Jule. His odd behavior confused some people I believe. There was a female motel desk clerk that was scared of him constantly hitting on her. But for all the people he was married to and had affairs with, none of them ever testified that he abused them in any way. The only exception is Dottie and I, quite frankly, don't put much stock into what she has to say given that just about everyone that knew her said she was weird, abusive, had a tendency to lie and exaggerate and was in general, not a pleasant person to be around.

Yes, even Jule was undoubtedly a terrible husband and a liar, I will concede that I’m still on the fence about whether or not he was physically abusive. Other than the incident with the typewriter, there doesn’t seem to be any documented cases of abuse between Jule and Dottie or any of the other women he was involved with. Even Dottie’s own friends and relatives will admit that she was not an easy person to live with, so I can give Jule the benefit of the doubt that the typewriter incident could have been self-defense.

However, if Jule wasn’t physically abusive, in a strange way that almost makes him look WORSE. I used to think that Jule never intended to murder Dottie and might have killed her accidentally in a fit of rage, but a lot of his strange behaviour has made me lean towards it being cold-blooded, premeditated murder.

Excellent post!

Although I disagree about the circumstantial evidence part not being enough to charge him. People have been charged with less evidence. However, here's a hypothetical: if Dottie's body were found, what are the odds that Jule Caylor gets arrested and convicted? I'd say 100%. If that's all that's preventing Jule from being arrested and tried, that doesn't speak well for the theory that he's innocent.

Yeah, I definitely think that finding Dottie’s body would cause a lot of pieces of the puzzle to fall into place and likely lead to Jule’s arrest. It might depend a lot on the location where Dottie’s remains are found and how it factors into the incriminating circumstantial evidence against him. For instance, if they happened to find her in the forest from those aerial photos Jule showed that insurance agent, I’m sure he’d be charged with murder immediately. And Jule is such a strange person that it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that he was the author of the anonymous letter describing Dottie's murder, as he could see him being arrogant enough to test how much he could get away with.

And Jule was also caught in his some lies about his interactions with these people when Dottie was reported missing. In one of the notes Jule left for Dottie, he wrote “Are you with Shelley? She called a few days ago, but she has not called back, so you must be with her”. But Shelley claimed that she called Dottie’s house numerous times after the 12th, but Jule never answered until the 17th when he informed her Dottie was missing.

Likewise, he told police that he called Dottie’s sister, Diane, to tell her she had disappeared, but Diane always claimed that she found out about it from one of Dottie’s friends and that she had to call Jule and pressure him to file a missing persons report. This was five days after Dottie left and Jule never attempted to contact Diane to ask if she had heard from her.

That seems hard to believe. There's no evidence Jule knew Shelley, heck he didn't even know Dottie was in the Women in Transition group until near the time she disappeared, so how would he even know who Shelley was unless she *had* called before inquiring about Dottie's disappearance?

I don't think it's necessarily suspicious that Jule didn't answer a call or two beforehand. Perhaps he just wasn't at home?

I suppose it's possible the part about Diane Rusnak could be true, but how likely is it that any of Dottie's friends knew Diane and what her telephone number was? Maybe she lived in the area and they looked it up in the phone book, but in that case, why didn't Diane just file a missing person's report herself?

Sure, he couldn’t prevent Dottie from leaving or force her to disclose where she was going, but it’s awfully strange that he would still agree to drive her to the BART station with this unresolved issue with the loan still hanging over them, especially since Dottie had her own vehicle and could have driven herself.

I agree that is weird, but I think if Jule is guilty, it would be pretty stupid for him to try and place himself at what was (arguably) the place Dottie disappeared from: The BART station. I think his better bet would have been just to say Dottie took off in her car and he wasn't sure where she went. If no witnesses came forward to say they saw Jule at the BART station that day, his odds of being tied to her disappearance drop considerably.

However, if Jule wasn’t physically abusive, in a strange way that almost makes him look WORSE. I used to think that Jule never intended to murder Dottie and might have killed her accidentally in a fit of rage, but a lot of his strange behaviour has made me lean towards it being cold-blooded, premeditated murder.

I'll have to disagree. You may have seen me talk in the past about how much time it would have taken for Jule to dispose of Dottie and clean up any mess, all the while he is preparing to move, fixing up the house for the new people, tying up last minute affairs in California, working somewhat, and everything else he has to do. It doesn't leave him with a large amount of time. Now granted, he did take most of the last several days off of work, but if he was guilty and planned this in advance, I think he would have just filed for a vacation week or whatever several weeks in advance. It's obvious those final work days he took off were all done at the last minute.

Yeah, I definitely think that finding Dottie’s body would cause a lot of pieces of the puzzle to fall into place and likely lead to Jule’s arrest. It might depend a lot on the location where Dottie’s remains are found and how it factors into the incriminating circumstantial evidence against him. For instance, if they happened to find her in the forest from those aerial photos Jule showed that insurance agent, I’m sure he’d be charged with murder immediately. And Jule is such a strange person that it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that he was the author of the anonymous letter describing Dottie's murder, as he could see him being arrogant enough to test how much he could get away with.

I don't know, it would take an incredibly brazen person to reveal things that could be traced back to him. If Jule did write the letter, at least two other people would be "in the know" as the DNA of three people was found on things such as the licked stamp and flap. Wasn't the letter mailed from Ohio? I think the authorities would have to find evidence Jule was in Ohio at the time. I know Jule traveled a lot with his previous job, but I don't recall ever hearing he traveled a lot with his new Utah job. But again, I think they would have to tie Jule into being in Ohio at the time, and I'm guessing they never could.

That seems hard to believe. There's no evidence Jule knew Shelley, heck he didn't even know Dottie was in the Women in Transition group until near the time she disappeared, so how would he even know who Shelley was unless she *had* called before inquiring about Dottie's disappearance?

I don't think it's necessarily suspicious that Jule didn't answer a call or two beforehand. Perhaps he just wasn't at home?

I guess Jule’s wording on the note, “She called a few days ago”, is a bit ambiguous, as it’s unclear if he meant Shelley called before or after Dottie disappeared. Since this was 1985 and there was no call display, Jule wouldn’t have known Shelley called unless he spoke to her personally, but she makes it sound like she didn’t talk to Jule at all until several days after Dottie went missing.

I agree that is weird, but I think if Jule is guilty, it would be pretty stupid for him to try and place himself at what was (arguably) the place Dottie disappeared from: The BART station. I think his better bet would have been just to say Dottie took off in her car and he wasn't sure where she went. If no witnesses came forward to say they saw Jule at the BART station that day, his odds of being tied to her disappearance drop considerably.

I think the main reason Jule didn’t try to claim that Dottie drove herself to the BART station was because he needed some time to cover his tracks before planting her vehicle in the parking lot. I’m assuming that Dottie’s vehicle remained parked at their home for a good portion of June 12th. If one of the neighbours said they saw the vehicle parked there after the time Jule claimed Dottie drove off, then his story would fall apart.

I'll have to disagree. You may have seen me talk in the past about how much time it would have taken for Jule to dispose of Dottie and clean up any mess, all the while he is preparing to move, fixing up the house for the new people, tying up last minute affairs in California, working somewhat, and everything else he has to do. It doesn't leave him with a large amount of time. Now granted, he did take most of the last several days off of work, but if he was guilty and planned this in advance, I think he would have just filed for a vacation week or whatever several weeks in advance. It's obvious those final work days he took off were all done at the last minute.

I think that would depend on the nature of the crime. If any of the rumours of Jule chopping Dottie up or burning her body in the house are true, then, yes, he would need a lot of time to clean up the mess. However, if it was simply a matter of hiding Dottie’s body somewhere, then he could have done it relatively quickly. Mark Nichols only had a window of a few hours to get rid of his wife’s body and he successfully got away with it.

Interestingly, on the comment board for the UM profile page, someone left a link to a mining claim that Jule Caylor owned in California during the 1980s. Sounds like an ideal place to get rid of a body if you never want it to be found…
http://thediggings.com/mines/camc75600

I don't know, it would take an incredibly brazen person to reveal things that could be traced back to him. If Jule did write the letter, at least two other people would be "in the know" as the DNA of three people was found on things such as the licked stamp and flap. Wasn't the letter mailed from Ohio? I think the authorities would have to find evidence Jule was in Ohio at the time. I know Jule traveled a lot with his previous job, but I don't recall ever hearing he traveled a lot with his new Utah job. But again, I think they would have to tie Jule into being in Ohio at the time, and I'm guessing they never could.

I double-checked the Charley Project page and I’d forgotten the tidbit that some investigators believe a psychic could have written the letter. That might explain why someone who may not have been present for the crime would go to the trouble of writing such a detailed letter and drawing a map of the murder scene, but I’m unsure how accurate that map was about the location. Considering that this letter was sent shortly after the original UM airing, it’s too bad UM never ran an updated version of the segment mentioning the letter and urging the writer to come forward.

After reading some of the links about Jule and Dottie's marriage, I'm kind of on the fence about Jule's guilt. I think it's mainly because UM depicted her as being unusually vulnerable and unable to sustain herself outside of her home. Everything we've read elsewhere seems to indicate that although Dottie still had agoraphobia and anxiety problems, she does appear to have been taking key steps toward independence and was fairly successful at it. The fact that she would write angry letters to Jule's many mistresses kind of shows she wasn't exactly a shrinking violet.

UM also seems to imply the domestic violence incident in 1981 was all Jule's fault. In reality, police issued no charge either way and decided that it was mutual combat.

For all of Dottie's mental health issues, she does seem like she could at times be a somewhat abrasive and unpleasant person. I think UM overplayed the "mentally ill battered wife" angle a bit. With her secret bank accounts and P.O. box, it does appear that she could have left voluntarily and perhaps met with foul play elsewhere.

I think the main reason Jule didn’t try to claim that Dottie drove herself to the BART station was because he needed some time to cover his tracks before planting her vehicle in the parking lot. I’m assuming that Dottie’s vehicle remained parked at their home for a good portion of June 12th. If one of the neighbours said they saw the vehicle parked there after the time Jule claimed Dottie drove off, then his story would fall apart.

How did he get home though?

I think that would depend on the nature of the crime. If any of the rumours of Jule chopping Dottie up or burning her body in the house are true, then, yes, he would need a lot of time to clean up the mess. However, if it was simply a matter of hiding Dottie’s body somewhere, then he could have done it relatively quickly. Mark Nichols only had a window of a few hours to get rid of his wife’s body and he successfully got away with it.

Interestingly, on the comment board for the UM profile page, someone left a link to a mining claim that Jule Caylor owned in California during the 1980s. Sounds like an ideal place to get rid of a body if you never want it to be found…
http://thediggings.com/mines/camc75600

I've heard lots of possibilities over the years. He also owned property in Oregon. The interesting thing though is if Jule is guilty, he left not long after hiding her body, meaning he must have felt extremely confident that she would never be found and no evidence would ever be located. IMO, this is very rare. A lot of times, perps will remain in the area for years and even decades afterwards in order to maintain quick access to the body in the event in needs to be moved or whatever.

I guess Jule’s wording on the note, “She called a few days ago”, is a bit ambiguous, as it’s unclear if he meant Shelley called before or after Dottie disappeared. Since this was 1985 and there was no call display, Jule wouldn’t have known Shelley called unless he spoke to her personally, but she makes it sound like she didn’t talk to Jule at all until several days after Dottie went missing.

Didn't Dottie's friend say she made several phone calls to the residence? Because she fully expected Dottie to be home, since Jule was going to Utah? This wasn't a once or twice type of thing, she called the house repeatedly. She called for three straight days until Jule answered and told her Dottie was missing.

I think the main reason Jule didn’t try to claim that Dottie drove herself to the BART station was because he needed some time to cover his tracks before planting her vehicle in the parking lot. I’m assuming that Dottie’s vehicle remained parked at their home for a good portion of June 12th. If one of the neighbours said they saw the vehicle parked there after the time Jule claimed Dottie drove off, then his story would fall apart.

Not to mention that the Concord BART station was approximately 4 miles from Jule and Dottie's house. Walking distance. He could have ditched the car and walked home.

Interestingly, on the comment board for the UM profile page, someone left a link to a mining claim that Jule Caylor owned in California during the 1980s. Sounds like an ideal place to get rid of a body if you never want it to be found…
http://thediggings.com/mines/camc75600

That is interesting! Good find. There are numerous ways that Jule could have ditched Dottie's body. He bragged about it several times to several different people.

What reason would Jule have for planting Dottie's car at the BART station? Considering Jule stated he drove her there and that is where he last saw her, there doesn't seem to be any obvious benefit for Jule planting her car there since people are led to believe that is where she was last known to be at anyways. If anything, it creates more unnecessary work for him and he runs the risk of being spotted by any number of people. Even Jule admitted that part was "very strange". I just can't think of any reason why he would go to these lengths when there's no obvious benefit involved.

Not to mention that the Concord BART station was approximately 4 miles from Jule and Dottie's house. Walking distance. He could have ditched the car and walked home.

This is exactly what I thought since this is not the only case on UM where someone planted their missing spouse's vehicle in a public parking lot and somehow found their way home. Bonnie Haim's car was found in an airport parking lot five miles from her home and we know for sure that her husband planted it there, so it's not inconceivable that Jule could have done the same thing and walked home.

What reason would Jule have for planting Dottie's car at the BART station? Considering Jule stated he drove her there and that is where he last saw her, there doesn't seem to be any obvious benefit for Jule planting her car there since people are led to believe that is where she was last known to be at anyways. If anything, it creates more unnecessary work for him and he runs the risk of being spotted by any number of people. Even Jule admitted that part was "very strange". I just can't think of any reason why he would go to these lengths when there's no obvious benefit involved.

I agree that it doesn't make the most logical sense to plant her car there, but I honestly think that Jule might have just been trying way too hard to fabricate an alibi and cover story for himself, but only wound up making himself look even more suspicious. It's kinda reminiscent of Rob Page's overly convoluted and unbelievable story about visiting several auto parts stores on the day his wife disappeared because his truck wouldn't start. I think Jule wanted it to make it look like Dottie secretly returned home from her trip while he was at work on June 13th, where she grabbed her vehicle, drove to the BART station, and parked it next to his vehicle. In Jule's mind, this would add to his narrative of Dottie being an unstable person who disappeared on her own just to mess with him and make his life difficult, but there are just too many holes in his story.

Dottie strikes me as one of those women that marries a man so she can purposefully become fat, lazy, crabby and unattractive immediately afterwards. Maybe you know the kind. I think she exaggerated her agoraphobia because holding down a job and going out in public interfered with her plans to watch television all day.

http://media0.giphy.com/media/H7iEm8CKI9ZAs/200_s.gif

No idea where this thread is going. But I downloaded the link that was provided a few posts ago and even after trying to sift and read through all that information. There are some questions I have, maybe they've been answered later on in the investigation notes but I have yet to come across them.

1) Was the letter investigated thoroughly? And by that I mean, did they take lengths to see where the letter was mailed from? Even though there is no return address the post office still processes it and gets stamped to show which post office processed it.

2) This may seem a bit odd to do. But was the stamp ever processed for saliva on the stamp to get a DNA sample?

3) Did the police department go back to the driveway or areas that the writer said Jule hit Dottie and use luminal? I am aware the substance can detect bleach, but the chemical could in fact leave a spatter mark for trace blood. Might be a stretch, but could dig something up.

4) Was the dump site ever combed over for the alleged hand the writer said would be protruding from the embankment? The writer laid out in detail the specific dump site. My question is if a hand was supposedly sticking out from the dirt, could they use cadaver dogs to sniff out the hand or a body that is allegedly in a shallow grave?

5) Was the old lady ever tracked down and brought in to give a statement?

6) Were neighbors ever questioned as to what they saw that morning after the police received the letter in the mail? That was a lot of information laid out in the letter in graphic detail.

Those are just a few things that stick out in my mind. Not sure if they are a stretch to investigate, but in a missing person case with suspected murder any kind of lead would help. If this letter is in fact authentic, it would be the great start to build a case against Jule. Personally, I think the whole thing is 50/50. Jule always had the look on his face like everything bothered him and like anything could set him off. Kind of like the face a violent drunk makes when they don't want to be bothered and something like a broken cashew will get them worked up to have a fit.

1) Was the letter investigated thoroughly? And by that I mean, did they take lengths to see where the letter was mailed from? Even though there is no return address the post office still processes it and gets stamped to show which post office processed it.

2) This may seem a bit odd to do. But was the stamp ever processed for saliva on the stamp to get a DNA sample?

The letter was mailed from Gary, Indiana. I had previously mentioned Ohio, another section of the Midwest, but I was mistaken, it was Gary, Indiana. The letter was mailed in 1988, shortly after the UM segment which aired in November of 1987. It is not known if authorities were able to determine if Jule traveled to that area during the timeframe, but presumably not since that information would likely be known.

The letter was tested and the DNA of 3 people, including one female, was found on things such as the licked stamp and licked envelope flap. I mentioned that numerous times recently and it is also mentioned in the documents.

3) Did the police department go back to the driveway or areas that the writer said Jule hit Dottie and use luminal? I am aware the substance can detect bleach, but the chemical could in fact leave a spatter mark for trace blood. Might be a stretch, but could dig something up.

4) Was the dump site ever combed over for the alleged hand the writer said would be protruding from the embankment? The writer laid out in detail the specific dump site. My question is if a hand was supposedly sticking out from the dirt, could they use cadaver dogs to sniff out the hand or a body that is allegedly in a shallow grave?

Don't know. Police searched the house several times over various years and turned up zilch. Numerous people have lived in the house since then, and Jule has allowed numerous people including acquaintances of Dottie to be in the house and on the driveway. Nobody has testified to have seeing so much as a speck of blood.

5) Was the old lady ever tracked down and brought in to give a statement?

6) Were neighbors ever questioned as to what they saw that morning after the police received the letter in the mail? That was a lot of information laid out in the letter in graphic detail.

Don't know about the old lady. Quite a few neighbors were questioned. Most of them stated they heard and saw nothing. One neighbor came up with some ludicrous statements about things such as "smelling burning flesh" on Jule's property the time of Dottie's disappearance, but that was DECADES after the fact. When originally questioned, he didn't reveal such things.

Those are just a few things that stick out in my mind. Not sure if they are a stretch to investigate, but in a missing person case with suspected murder any kind of lead would help. If this letter is in fact authentic, it would be the great start to build a case against Jule. Personally, I think the whole thing is 50/50. Jule always had the look on his face like everything bothered him and like anything could set him off. Kind of like the face a violent drunk makes when they don't want to be bothered and something like a broken cashew will get them worked up to have a fit.

To me, he seemed very laid back. Most of the people that knew him said he was very mild mannered.

Dottie strikes me as one of those women that marries a man so she can purposefully become fat, lazy, crabby and unattractive immediately afterwards. Maybe you know the kind. I think she exaggerated her agoraphobia because holding down a job and going out in public interfered with her plans to watch television all day.

No wonder so many posters have disappeared from the forum over the years. Classy post.

I personally think the story of a young Jule sticking explosives up a dog's rear end is a big load of hogwash. First of all, he clearly loved dogs, as he owned them both while he was with Dottie and afterwards. Secondly, his job was an *entomologist*, which means he devoted his life to the study of insects and quite obviously liked them. I really do not see how a man who loved dogs, animals and bugs could do something so vicious to one.

And I don't believe he was a spouse abuser either. When some women are battered, they keep it quiet. But Dottie wasn't one of those people. In order for me to believe that Jule killed her, I would have to believe there was some pattern of abuse that was going on for some time, and I haven't found any evidence of that. Considering that Dottie frequently complained to relatives and neighbors about Jule, I would think she would absolutely tell them if there was abuse going on, and if there was, at least her sister would have allowed her to move in with her (she would refuse). But again, that didn't happen because there was no history of abuse.

Wow that's harsh. Let's not forget what a miserable life she had being married to someone like Jule. That would be a nightmare in itself.

There was a police report where both parties (Jule and Dottie) admitted that Jule threw a stand and hit Dottie in the face. He admitted to this during his interview on UM.

I personally think the story of a young Jule sticking explosives up a dog's rear end is a big load of hogwash. First of all, he clearly loved dogs, as he owned them both while he was with Dottie and afterwards. Secondly, his job was an *entomologist*, which means he devoted his life to the study of insects and quite obviously liked them. I really do not see how a man who loved dogs, animals and bugs could do something so vicious to one.

And I don't believe he was a spouse abuser either. When some women are battered, they keep it quiet. But Dottie wasn't one of those people. In order for me to believe that Jule killed her, I would have to believe there was some pattern of abuse that was going on for some time, and I haven't found any evidence of that. Considering that Dottie frequently complained to relatives and neighbors about Jule, I would think she would absolutely tell them if there was abuse going on, and if there was, at least her sister would have allowed her to move in with her (she would refuse). But again, that didn't happen because there was no history of abuse.

Not to start an argument, but Ted Bundy was a respected psychology and law student and volunteered on a suicide crisis line. He appeared to love people and was incredibly charismatic. Ann Rule worked along side him on that crisis line and described him as "kind, solicitous, and empathetic."

Without question, he was one of the worst serial killers to ever walk the planet.

Okay, so Jules Caylor liked dogs. That doesn't mean that he couldn't kill his wife.

Okay, after reading that entire probable cause affidavit, I'm more convinced than ever that Jule Caylor is guilty, but I think the most damning thing against him is his unbelievable story about Dottie's "trip" and his actions when she went missing. Jule claimed that Dottie probably wasn't going to return from her trip until after he left for Salt Lake City on June 24, yet he reports her missing and moves all of her possessions out of the house several days before she's scheduled to return home?! Granted, it's not implausible that Jule could have changed his outlook after unexpectedly finding Dottie's abandoned vehicle in the parking lot, but the strange notes he left in her car open up so many holes in his story.

It's bizarre enough that Jule starts off these notes by telling Dottie how lonely he is and how much needs her, as so many other people described how cold and indifferent he acted after she disappeared. But then he instantly transitions into long rants about Dottie not co-signing the loan papers which would allow him to finance his new home in Utah. He actually uses the phrase "you really screwed up my life" and goes on about how he has no alternative but to rent out their house. This makes no sense to me! Jule claimed that Dottie wasn't scheduled to come back until June 24th at the earliest, which is over a week after Jule left the note. How can he be so certain she isn't coming back? And if this loan is so vitally important for Jule to pay for his new home, why would he even let Dottie go on this two-week trip in the first place (without even telling him where she was going!) when the loan papers weren't signed? Hell, he even claimed that she wasn't planning to return until AFTER HE MOVED TO UTAH, which isn't going to help him too much if he needs the loan money for his new house! Honestly, if Jule's story had been that Dottie's trip was only supposed to be two or three days and that she never returned, I might be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I just can't get past him essentially purging Dottie's existence from his life several days before she was scheduled to come home.

The most chilling part of the affidavit are the details of how Jule told his secret fiancee, Deanna Vigil (whom he had been engaged to since December 1984!) about Dottie's disappearance that Christmas, and that his behavior disturbed her so much that she genuinely feared for her life and never had a face-to-face meeting with him again! Interestingly enough, nobody else, from the investigators to Dottie's friends and family, found out that Jule was engaged to another woman until after the UM segment aired! If UM had known about Jule's secret engagement beforehand, we might have seen a completely different segment.

That said, even with all this suspicious circumstantial evidence against Jule, I still don't think there's enough to charge him with anything, and without a body or any hard evidence that a crime was committed, I doubt a jury would find him guilty with what they have right now.

Of course he did it. Excellent post, btw.

Law Enforcement will not put together such a detailed probable cause affidavit 20 years after the 'disappearance' if they didn't have a clear intent to attempt to prosecute. The information in the affidavit is enough to indict Jules. I feel that if Dottie's friends and family were more aggressively pursuing this, it would happen.

Okay, so Jules Caylor liked dogs. That doesn't mean that he couldn't kill his wife.

:D

Jule Caylor is guilty as hell. There was a wealth of information left out of the UM segment. For starters (keeping in mind that Jule says he last saw Dottie on 6/12/85):

-Jule Caylor only worked for an hour and a half on 6/12/85. He left work and used 6 and a half hours of sick leave on the day she disappeared.

-Jule took 8 hours of sick leave on 6/11/85. He used four hours on 6/13/85, and then used a full 8 hours again on 6/14/85. This was all verified by detectives looking at his work calendar.

-Dottie had written several letters to Jule's parents accusing him of abusing her (physically and emotionally) for years. She repeatedly had said that he had abandoned her on various holidays and events (Christmas even one time) to run off and carry on extramarital affairs. In one letter, she says Jule had told her that when he was younger, he built a bomb and "stuffed it up the ass of the neighbors sleeping dog" and blew it up while masturbating. :eek:

-In another letter to Jule's parents, Dottie had said that Jule had planned on killing his first wife because she was going to "bankrupt" him during their divorce proceedings. He told Dottie he was going to sneak into his first wife's home at night and slit her throat, and that no one would ever accuse him of doing it. Despite Jule saying it would be easy for him to disappear into the Alaskan wilderness, Dottie says she talked Jule out of doing it.

-In yet another letter, Dottie said this:



-During the investigation into Dottie's disappearance, detectives were never able to find anyone (reliable) other than Jule who claimed to have seen Dottie alive on 6/12/85.

-An insurance agent in Utah who was working with Jule to transfer his insurance over, had said that Jule repeatedly made advances towards her while at her office. During a conversation with her, Jule had said that he "didn't believe in divorce; it would be easier to do away with them." Jule also showed her several aerial photos that he had taken of a forest and the insurance agent suspected he was showing her pictures where he had buried Dottie's body.

-The lady (Della Vigil) whom Jule had proposed marriage to 6 months prior to Dottie's disappearance had no idea about the fact that Jule and Dottie were still married. In fact, the police didn't even know about her existence until a friend of Della's recognized Jule on UM and called the hotline. Della had told police that Jule told her that he had no family and was married to an "oriental" woman but had divorced her ten years prior. During a holiday stay with Jule at the tail end of 1985, Jule's daughter was coming to stay with them and at that point he finally confessed about his marriage to Dottie. He claimed that their relationship was "asinine", told her about the physical assault, and claimed that he feared for his life when he was around Dottie. Della told police that Jule simply claimed that Dottie wanted to "make him know what it was like to be alone" and simply vanished (kind of like Gone Girl in a way) to disrupt his life. He told Della that Dottie was not going to kill him, and, "If I have to, I'll kill her first. As a matter of fact, she's gone and if she's dead someplace...it's good riddance." He also told Della, "You don't have to worry about her coming to interfere in our lives. You don't have to worry, I will protect you, she's not going to come hurt you or me anymore. Maybe she is dead somewhere, maybe somebody killed her, and if somebody killed her, good riddance." Della had said she wanted to help Jule clear his name with police, but he was never interested and always appeared indifferent. After seeing how cold blooded he appeared to be handling Dottie's disappearance, Della became fearful of Jule and suspected that he murdered her. She had cut her visit with him short, and called friends and said that if they didn't hear from her in ten hours to call the police because Jule had killed her. The detectives asked what Jule had said to her to make her become so fearful of Jule so quickly, and she had said that Jule bragged to her about how easy it would be to bury a body and that no one would ever suspect anything. He went into detail about how he buried Dottie's dog, and knew how to bury it to eliminate odors to not alarm neighbors. He said that if he ever wanted to get rid of a person, he would do the same thing he did with the dog.

-The plan was for Jule to move to Utah while Dottie stayed behind and lived at the home they had once shared. One of Dottie's friends became worried after repeated attempts to call her home went unanswered. She was also worried because she knew that Dottie would never go anywhere without her purse. On one of the days trying to call Dottie at her house, Jule answered and told her that Dottie was missing. She told him to call the police, but he didn't. It was only after "consulting" with a neighbor who was a police officer, that Jule finally reported her missing.

-When UM re-aired the segment in the early 2000's, and man had e-mailed the show a tip about Jule. He was Jule's middle and high school classmate and had said that he wrote a paper in 7th or 8th grade titled, "How to commit the perfect murder". It creeped the teacher and the students out.

-The next door neighbor of Jule and Dottie had found a rusty meat clever hidden under some ivy on his fence after Jule had moved away and Dottie disappeared. Prior to this, Jule had asked him not to cut the ivy away because it was holding the fence up. The same neighbor said that when he was in the house (after Dottie's disappearance) helping Jule move, he could smell what smelled like burning flesh inside. Jule gave the man a 50 lb sack of sulfur for him to use "fertilizer". He also had said that he saw Jule pour a concrete slab for a patio in his backyard around the time that Dottie had disappeared.

-Dottie's friend, after finding out that she was missing, went to the house she shared with Jule. Jule walked her around the house and saw her clothing neatly folded in her room. She knew Dottie would have taken these things if she did in fact plan on leaving the house and going elsewhere. She asked to see Dottie's purse, and Jule showed her. She removed the contents and saw the wallet, medical card, and bee sting kit. She made a "big deal" to Jule that Dottie would have never went anywhere without her medical card or bee sting kit. She went to the house because she knew that Dottie was afraid of Jule, and thought that maybe Jule had Dottie locked up in the house against her will. She claims that Jule was more concerned with his financial situation instead of Dottie's well being.

-None of Dottie's friends had ever heard her talk about disappearing for a long period of time, or running off with a "mystery man". The last time she went on a date with someone other than Jule (in addition to the support groups she was in, she was also involved in a singles group) was in late of 1984. None of the men she dated ever went back on other dates with her, only one.

-When detectives reopened the case in 2004, they reinterviewed Della Vigil. She told them that in 1985, Jule had complained to her about the tenants in the house he and Dottie shared slaughtered an animal inside the house and got blood all over the walls.

-The rental agent who managed the property after Jule moved to Utah said that Jule told her that Dottie was moving to Utah with him.

-Dottie had told her sister that she was going to stay with a friend until Jule left and moved to Utah. Once he was in Utah, she would return to the house. Dottie's sister found out about a moving truck outside of Dottie's house and went over to confront Jule on 6/19/85. Jule had all of Dottie's belongings in the truck and was planning on taking them to Utah with him. Dottie's sister began to yell and question why he was taking Dottie's things if she planned on coming back home when he left. Jule was reluctant to let them take anything, and said that Dottie could get the things in Utah if she ever resurfaced. Jule also never had called Dottie's sister from 6/12 up until she confronted him on 6/19/85 to ask about Dottie's whereabouts. In the police report that Jule filed, he had Dottie listed under her maiden name. Dottie's sister said that was "about as close to distancing as you could get".

-Dottie's sister hired private investigators to look into finding Dottie. They found nothing. The cost of hiring them was high, and she asked Jule to help contribute some money he was receiving from renting the house out. He claimed expenses were too high and that he couldn't contribute a couple hundred dollars a month to help locate Dottie.

-Jule repeatedly turned down offers from police, Dottie's sister, and Della Vigil to take a polygraph test. A polygraph expert even suggested that he only answer one question with regards to knowing the whereabouts of Dottie, and he still refused.

-Dottie's parents passed away in 1997 and 2005. She did not attend the funeral services or sent a "mystery" card or flowers, etc.

-Dottie sent a birthday card to a friend on 6/5/85 which read, "In the home stretch, a few more weeks and he'll finally be out of here! Hooray!".

-Dottie refused to sign the loan papers Jule had repeatedly asked her to. Without her signature, he wouldn't be able to buy the home in Utah. He eventually had to have his parents put their house up for collateral to purchase the house in Utah. There is no evidence that Dottie knew about Jule's plans to rent the house out after he moved to Utah. The plan was for Dottie to live there. Jule signed the rental agreement on 6/7/85 while Dottie was still alive. IMO, he planned on killing her (once she wouldn't sign the loan), and then rent the house out at double the price of the mortgage payment to receive more money. Jule had said that he and Dottie's original agreement was that Dottie was going to pay him $400 a month to live in the house while he was in Utah. The rental agreement was for $650 a month for tenants to live in the house. This is extremely cold, if Jule is innocent (and at this point, I don't think there is any way, shape, or form that he is). He claimed that Dottie was still alive, knew that she planned on returning to the house and living in it, yet he goes out and moves her things out of the house so he can rent it before she can even return home?! Where was Dottie going to go if she ever did come back home and found that tenants were living inside the house?

-In 2004, the police looked into Dottie's purse and inventoried the contents. They found the instructions on how to use the bee sting kit, but not the actual bee sting kit. Dottie would have needed these instructions to use it. She would have taken them with the kit, but she didn't.

-Jule's "Herculean effort" comment:



ETA: Several of Dottie's friends confirmed that she was in a support group that specified in helping battered women prepare to leave their husbands and file for divorce. She apparently was involved in several other support groups, and dating groups as well.

All of the above is enough proof for me if I was on the jury. Body or not. And yes, many people have been convicted of murder 'without bodies', with far less circumstantial evidence.

One more thing: where is this 'friend' that Dottie went to visit? Why hasn't he or she ever surfaced?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zclxv9thwqrxp7f/Dottie%20Caylor.zip?dl=0

There you go. Read it and see for yourselves why Jule Caylor is guilty as sin.

Thanks @TheCars1986. A cursory look through this file glaringly points to Jules as the killer.

This thread really should have ended here.

Okay, so Jules Caylor liked dogs. That doesn't mean that he couldn't kill his wife.

My point being that I don't think he is the spouse/animal abuser that some have painted him to be.

I believe Stack's exact words in the segment were "The relationship finally erupted in violence in 1981", which was the Thanksgiving incident. They had been married for 8 years by that point, and together for longer. I would think if Jule was hitting her, he would have started much earlier. Plus the situation is he said, she said. She said he hit him. Jule admits to hitting her with her little typing stand in self-defense after she was standing over top of him with scissors. I can believe Jule because it's been documented that Dottie would pace back and forth in front of the television while Jule was watching it with those scissors in an intimidating fashion, like she was going to do something to him.

One more thing: where is this 'friend' that Dottie went to visit? Why hasn't he or she ever surfaced?

Maybe he/she was the one that killed her? Or she hooked up with this person and they don't wish to be bothered?

This thread really should have ended here.

Well it doesn't end there, as Stack would say.

One new thing I wish to point out: Some have said that it was unlikely Dottie would voluntarily disappear considering she had just arranged it so that she would inherit the house and she wouldn't leave that behind. But consider this: unless they owned the house outright (which seems unlikely) Dottie would have had to continue making the significant house payments on it. It seems unlikely she could have pulled this off considering she was unemployed for what seems like most of her marriage to Jule. She would have had to find a good paying job and even if she managed that, it still might not be enough. Plus she would have had to keep up with all of the repairs, upkeep and cleaning, and everything else.

She liked to complain that Jule was out of town over half of the time, but that job was the only thing keeping them afloat I would imagine.

Maybe he/she was the one that killed her? Or she hooked up with this person and they don't wish to be bothered?



Well it doesn't end there, as Stack would say.

One new thing I wish to point out: Some have said that it was unlikely Dottie would voluntarily disappear considering she had just arranged it so that she would inherit the house and she wouldn't leave that behind. But consider this: unless they owned the house outright (which seems unlikely) Dottie would have had to continue making the significant house payments on it. It seems unlikely she could have pulled this off considering she was unemployed for what seems like most of her marriage to Jule. She would have had to find a good paying job and even if she managed that, it still might not be enough. Plus she would have had to keep up with all of the repairs, upkeep and cleaning, and everything else.

She liked to complain that Jule was out of town over half of the time, but that job was the only thing keeping them afloat I would imagine.

"Maybe he/she was the one that killed her? Or she hooked up with this person and they don't wish to be bothered?"

...wiseguy, you're really reaching on that one, lol. There is NO 'friend'.

I love your posts, your posts are always very well thought out and intelligent. But you're dead wrong on this one (no pun intended).

Did you even bother to skim thru the affidavit?

That's impossible to know. Since the relationship was effectively over at that point, I doubt he pressed her into asking which friend it was, if he even knew this friend. It's not like he could have foreseen that she was going to disappear



I read the whole thing, word for word, much of which I repeated in this thread, which most people were previously unaware about. Did you even bother to read this thread that you're posting on?

No 'friend', no alibi for Jules. It's as simple as that. The friend has NEVER been identified by ANYONE, either family members or Dottie's other friends.

The only person who claims to have known about this 'visit' to said 'friend' is Jules. That in and of itself is extremely suspect.

Apologies, I have not read the entire thread- I was working most of today. However, I will take your word that you read the entire document - all 140+ pages. :)

From what I saw of your posts after TheCars1986 posted the document, you seemed to simply dispute what TheCars1986 posted in the thread. That does not verify that you read the entire document.

From what I saw of your posts after TheCars1986 posted the document, you seemed to simply dispute what TheCars1986 posted in the thread. That does not verify that you read the entire document.

:cheers:

I believe the document states that they contacted several friends, and found one that said Dottie was supposed to visit, but it was only for 2-3 days to give Jule the time to move out of the house. Once he was gone, she was going to return.

There is no 'innocent' explanation, despite ones best efforts, as to why Jule Caylor would have moved tenants into his house, while he himself had repeatedly stated that Dottie was due to return after the tenants moved in. Someone who had nothing to do with her disappearance, even if he hated her, would be concerned at the very least, about her whereabouts because he needed someone to live in the house (to pay rent), so he could pay the mortgage. The fact that he did next to nothing to locate Dottie proves, IMO, that he's guilty. That's always been my main bone of contention in this case. The probable cause affidavit was just icing on the cake.

:cheers:

I believe the document states that they contacted several friends, and found one that said Dottie was supposed to visit, but it was only for 2-3 days to give Jule the time to move out of the house. Once he was gone, she was going to return.

There is no 'innocent' explanation, despite ones best efforts, as to why Jule Caylor would have moved tenants into his house, while he himself had repeatedly stated that Dottie was due to return after the tenants moved in. Someone who had nothing to do with her disappearance, even if he hated her, would be concerned at the very least, about her whereabouts because he needed someone to live in the house (to pay rent), so he could pay the mortgage. The fact that he did next to nothing to locate Dottie proves, IMO, that he's guilty. That's always been my main bone of contention in this case. The probable cause affidavit was just icing on the cake.

:thanks:

YOU WROTE:

' Someone who had nothing to do with her disappearance, even if he hated her, would be concerned at the very least, about her whereabouts because he needed someone to live in the house (to pay rent), so he could pay the mortgage. The fact that he did next to nothing to locate Dottie proves, IMO, that he's guilty. That's always been my main bone of contention in this case. The probable cause affidavit was just icing on the cake.'

BINGO!

The probable cause affidavit is chock full of info. I suggest to people in this thread, if you have the time to read it, give it a go. Thanks again, TheCars1986! :)

I'd like to hear more about this friend, about the alleged planned visit- whether there was even a concrete arrival and departure date set, specifically whether he or she was expecting Dottie to arrive on the day she disappeared- were there plans made to retrieve Dottie from the train station, etc. As TheCars1986 stated, the friend was only expecting Dottie to stay for 2- DAYS not 2 weeks as Jules stated. So therein is one lie he told to the police.

The fact that he rented the house before Dottie was expected to return (to live in the house), also speaks volumes. Another lie. A big one at that, which indicates Jules knew she was never coming back before she officially went missing.

The affidavit really goes into depth about the relationship of Dottie and Jules, including an assault on Dottie by Jules, which resulted in Dottie sustaining a head injury and her subsequently spending some time in a battered women's shelter. Also, it details his 'engagement' (while still married to Dottie) to another woman, whom he intended to live with when he moved to Utah. She eventually broke the engagement after finding out the details of Dottie's disappearance, and fearing for her life cut off all ties with Jules. There's a LOT of info - law enforcement went to great lengths to document probable cause to search the Caylor residence in California.

Honestly, LE would not go to these lengths if they did not think Jules was a solid suspect. All arrows point to this man, and trust and believe he is being watched. It's really disgusting that Jule has lived life 'pretty good' for 30+ years after killing his wife. Alas, I do believe that he will eventually be arrested. I just think LE needs a bit more evidence, and nudges from parties related to the case, possibly a new detective interested in the case. IMO, at this point there is so much evidence against Jules that a body isn't necessary for him to be indicted. As I stated in a previous post, people have been convicted of murder without 'a body' with FAR less circumstantial evidence.

Sorry for the long-winded post, I just really want to see this murderer fry.

Maybe he/she was the one that killed her? Or she hooked up with this person and they don't wish to be bothered?



Well it doesn't end there, as Stack would say.

One new thing I wish to point out: Some have said that it was unlikely Dottie would voluntarily disappear considering she had just arranged it so that she would inherit the house and she wouldn't leave that behind. But consider this: unless they owned the house outright (which seems unlikely) Dottie would have had to continue making the significant house payments on it. It seems unlikely she could have pulled this off considering she was unemployed for what seems like most of her marriage to Jule. She would have had to find a good paying job and even if she managed that, it still might not be enough. Plus she would have had to keep up with all of the repairs, upkeep and cleaning, and everything else.

She liked to complain that Jule was out of town over half of the time, but that job was the only thing keeping them afloat I would imagine.

Nonsense, Dottie was going to be a renter, paying I believe $400 per month. A transfer of the deed would make Jules the owner, and thus the landlord, responsible for repairs, etc. If (actually, when) Jules & her divorced, she would also be receiving spousal support. Plus, she had that $5K inheritance check and other 'secret bank accounts', who knows how much she hd in savings. She would have been ok, at least until she could find at the very least, part time employment; by all accounts, she was working toward gaining independence from Jules.

No 'friend', no alibi for Jules.

Jule doesn't need an alibi in the sense that there's never been a single shred of proof that a crime has been committed, which still holds true to this day, more than 30 years later.

The friend has NEVER been identified by ANYONE, either family members or Dottie's other friends.

I don't think Dottie would necessarily tell everyone or even anyone she knew that she was visiting a friend. People visiting friends is a pretty mundane aspect of life and happens all the time. It also could have been a ruse by Dottie.

The only person who claims to have known about this 'visit' to said 'friend' is Jules. That in and of itself is extremely suspect.

They lived together and presumably talked to each other all the time. I don't think it's suspicious that he knows. Do you inform everyone you know every time you visit one of your friends?

Apologies, I have not read the entire thread- I was working most of today. However, I will take your word that you read the entire document - all 140+ pages. :) [/I]

I won't get into an argument about that since you have zero knowledge of what I have and have not read. I said I read the whole thing, which is a factual statement.

The probable cause affidavit is chock full of info. I suggest to people in this thread, if you have the time to read it, give it a go.

I agree, there's lots of things in there to suggest Jule didn't kill Dottie.

I'd like to hear more about this friend, about the alleged planned visit- whether there was even a concrete arrival and departure date set, specifically whether he or she was expecting Dottie to arrive on the day she disappeared- were there plans made to retrieve Dottie from the train station, etc., the friend was only expecting Dottie to stay for 2- DAYS not 2 weeks as Jules stated. So therein is one lie he told to the police.

Dottie was reportedly "fearful" of Jule during this time and alerted neighbors to call the police if they heard anything. Dottie did have plans (which she informed to someone close to her, I believe it was her sister) that she planned to stay away from the house until Jule relocated to Salt Lake City, then return to the house in Concord.

It's entirely possible the visit to the friend was supposed to be 2-3 days or whatever, but Dottie had other plans during this time which she didn't inform Jule about. But the important thing is, she was mentioning plans to stay away from Jule until he was gone.

The fact that he rented the house before Dottie was expected to return (to live in the house), also speaks volumes. Another lie. A big one at that, which indicates Jules knew she was never coming back before she officially went missing.

Jule was pressured to inform police and BART employees about Dottie's disappearance 4-5 days after he last saw her. She was last seen on June 12, so this puts it at around June 17. It's not so much that he figured she was missing, but other people were getting hysterical about it, so there's was probably some doubt in his mind as to whether or not she returned.

I would imagine he rented the house since he was moving to another state for another job and didn't want to come back to the area to have to further deal with what was already a time-consuming and difficult issue.

The affidavit really goes into depth about the relationship of Dottie and Jules, including an assault on Dottie by Jules, which resulted in Dottie sustaining a head injury and her subsequently spending some time in a battered women's shelter. Also, it details his 'engagement' (while still married to Dottie) to another woman, whom he intended to live with when he moved to Utah. She eventually broke the engagement after finding out the details of Dottie's disappearance, and fearing for her life cut off all ties with Jules. There's a LOT of info - law enforcement went to great lengths to document probable cause to search the Caylor residence in California.

After she threatened him with scissors.

As for the cheating, both Dottie and Jule were seeing other people at this time. Dottie pursued Jule even after finding out he was a married man, and he divorced his first wife to marry Dottie.

The house was searched numerous times by numerous people. They found zilch. Nothing. Jule had moved out of the house very shortly after Dottie disappeared, thus potentially opening up the house to unlimited searches by police. They have never found so much as a speck of blood.

Honestly, LE would not go to these lengths if they did not think Jules was a solid suspect. All arrows point to this man, and trust and believe he is being watched. It's really disgusting that Jule has lived life 'pretty good' for 20+ years after killing his wife. Alas, I do believe that he will eventually be arrested. I just think LE needs a bit more evidence, and nudges from parties related to the case, possibly a new detective interested in the case. IMO, at this point there is so much evidence against Jules that a body isn't necessary for him to be indicted. As I stated in a previous post, people have been convicted of murder without 'a body' with FAR less circumstantial evidence.

There was an article about 10 years ago where they were supposedly closing in on him. Didn't happen. If he did kill her, he's gotten away with for 31 years.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zclxv9thwqrxp7f/Dottie%20Caylor.zip?dl=0

There you go. Read it and see for yourselves why Jule Caylor is guilty as sin.

Others can read the affidavit and decipher for themselves. I've said all that I have to say.

Looking forward to other perspectives. ;)

If he did kill her, he's gotten away with for 31 years.

This we can agree upon. ;)

Another thing I just thought of:

If Jule's plan all along was to marry this other woman, then murdering Dottie and hiding the body was the stupidest thing he could have done. Because he couldn't marry this other woman (or anyone else for that matter) while still married to Dottie.

It wasn't until decades later that a judge ruled that Dottie was deceased, allowing Jule to marry again.

Others can read the affidavit and decipher for themselves. I've said all that I have to say.

Looking forward to other perspectives. ;)

I went from thinking Jule was guilty based on what I saw in the segment to pulling a complete 180 some years later, thinking that Jule couldn't possibly be guilty when his entire countenance in the interview is so utterly and brazenly unapologetic. I surmised that no one that flatly and openly uncaring would be so foolish to be so obvious in front of a national television audience.

Another poster here sent me a copy of that affidavit a few years ago when we were discussing this case via pm, and the contents of that affidavit were what ultimately brought me back to the other side.

I think it is quite reasonable to assume that Dottie's agoraphobia was a stressor for Jule, and he is not at fault for Dottie developing the problem (but it's not entirely Dottie's, either). I can understand his being frustrated and angry at the manifestations of her illness, and I do not doubt there were probably times in the marriage in which Dottie wasn't at all fair to Jule. However, Jule carried on affairs, neglected his wife, and waged physical violence against her (I know, I know--she allegedly threatened to kill him with a pair of scissors. Something's wrong if you're at that point, all 'well-she-started-it' nonsense aside). He sucked as a husband. This is perhaps a good testament against marrying a man who blatantly fails to mention he was already married to someone else until several months into the relationship (seems to be a theme with ol' Jule), but I digress. In other words, I can definitely see how there could be some factual basis in it being "hell living with Dottie", to use Jule's words. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's likely that she simply ran off and left her husband, especially when there is compelling evidence to indicate he was involved in her murder and disposal.

Another thing I just thought of:

If Jule's plan all along was to marry this other woman, then murdering Dottie and hiding the body was the stupidest thing he could have done. Because he couldn't marry this other woman (or anyone else for that matter) while still married to Dottie.

It wasn't until decades later that a judge ruled that Dottie was deceased, allowing Jule to marry again.

Hell, like being married to another woman ever stopped him before.

I went from thinking Jule was guilty based on what I saw in the segment to pulling a complete 180 some years later, thinking that Jule couldn't possibly be guilty when his entire countenance in the interview is so utterly and brazenly unapologetic. I surmised that no one that flatly and openly uncaring would be so foolish to be so obvious in front of a national television audience.

Another poster here sent me a copy of that affidavit a few years ago when we were discussing this case via pm, and the contents of that affidavit were what ultimately brought me back to the other side.

I think it is quite reasonable to assume that Dottie's agoraphobia was a stressor for Jule, and he is not at fault for Dottie developing the problem (but it's not entirely Dottie's, either). I can understand his being frustrated and angry at the manifestations of her illness, and I do not doubt there were probably times in the marriage in which Dottie wasn't at all fair to Jule. However, Jule carried on affairs, neglected his wife, and waged physical violence against her (I know, I know--she allegedly threatened to kill him with a pair of scissors. Something's wrong if you're at that point, all 'well-she-started-it' nonsense aside). He sucked as a husband. This is perhaps a good testament against marrying a man who blatantly fails to mention he was already married to someone else until several months into the relationship (seems to be a theme with ol' Jule), but I digress. In other words, I can definitely see how there could be some factual basis in it being "hell living with Dottie", to use Jule's words. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's likely that she simply ran off and left her husband, especially when there is compelling evidence to indicate he was involved in her murder and disposal.

Agreed.

I think it is quite reasonable to assume that Dottie's agoraphobia was a stressor for Jule, and he is not at fault for Dottie developing the problem (but it's not entirely Dottie's, either). I can understand his being frustrated and angry at the manifestations of her illness, and I do not doubt there were probably times in the marriage in which Dottie wasn't at all fair to Jule. However, Jule carried on affairs, neglected his wife, and waged physical violence against her (I know, I know--she allegedly threatened to kill him with a pair of scissors. Something's wrong if you're at that point, all 'well-she-started-it' nonsense aside).

Neglected his wife? Because he was working?

I don't think it's "nonsense" to protect one's self when somebody is threatening them with a weapon, which I believe probably did happen.

As for the affairs, I assume it wouldn't have been a problem if Dottie wanted to accompany Jule on his trips and stay with him, which would have prevented that problem from ever happening. Her agoraphobia must have been that bad.

He sucked as a husband. This is perhaps a good testament against marrying a man who blatantly fails to mention he was already married to someone else until several months into the relationship (seems to be a theme with ol' Jule), but I digress.

It didn't stop Dottie though. She wanted it.

But that doesn't necessarily mean it's likely that she simply ran off and left her husband, especially when there is compelling evidence to indicate he was involved in her murder and disposal.

What compelling evidence is there that Jule killed Dottie, or even that a crime has been committed at all? Her body has not been discovered, multiple searches of the house have turned up zilch, there are no eyewitnesses, nothing.

Neglected his wife? Because he was working?

I don't think it's "nonsense" to protect one's self when somebody is threatening them with a weapon, which I believe probably did happen.

As for the affairs, I assume it wouldn't have been a problem if Dottie wanted to accompany Jule on his trips and stay with him, which would have prevented that problem from ever happening. Her agoraphobia must have been that bad.

It's Dottie's fault Jule cheated on her?

Interesting.


What compelling evidence is there that Jule killed Dottie, or even that a crime has been committed at all? Her body has not been discovered, multiple searches of the house have turned up zilch, there are no eyewitnesses, nothing.

Christi Nichols.

Again, it's in the affidavit; Cars delineated the highlights beautifully earlier in the thread. I don't think it requires my rehashing each of them.

NYSleuth, welcome to the board. I've been enjoying your articulate and well-reasoned posts.

It's Dottie's fault Jule cheated on her?

Interesting.

Agreed.


Christi Nichols.

Again, it's in the affidavit; Cars delineated the highlights beautifully earlier in the thread. I don't think it requires my rehashing each of them.

Agreed, again.

NYSleuth, welcome to the board. I've been enjoying your articulate and well-reasoned posts.

Thank you, MegtheEgg86. I've been enjoying your posts as well for quite some time. Long time lurker, as stated before. This forum is brilliant and I am fortunate to have found it. :)

It's Dottie's fault Jule cheated on her?

Interesting.




Christi Nichols.

Again, it's in the affidavit; Cars delineated the highlights beautifully earlier in the thread. I don't think it requires my rehashing each of them.

NYSleuth, welcome to the board. I've been enjoying your articulate and well-reasoned posts.

:yourock:

It's Dottie's fault Jule cheated on her?

Interesting.

I never said it was Dottie's fault Jule cheated on her. Nice job of putting words in my mouth, however. My point being if she was so concerned that Jule was cheating on her, she could have accompanied him on the trips which would have prevented the problem from escalating further. She could visit different cities, go shopping, etc. She opted to stay at home.

And while we're on the subject, Dottie had affairs also. Saw multiple men while still married to Jule.

Dottie did learn Jule was married to someone else. She saw him anyways and waited for him to get a divorce so that she could marry him. She wanted it that way. She pursued that.

Christi Nichols.

Totally different case and I have no idea why you mentioned it. The "proof" that Jule killed Dottie is Christi Nichols?

Again, it's in the affidavit

I read the affidavit and came away with a totally different conclusion. Once again, there isn't a scintilla of evidence that Jule killed Dottie or that a crime has been committed at all in this case. There is no body, there has been nothing found at searches of the house, there are no eyewitnesses, no DNA. Nothing. Literally nothing.

Jule Caylor killed Dottie. Common sense should prevail on this one. The end.

Wouldn't that be the ultimate "revenge" for Dottie? Disappear somewhere, knowing Jule would have to take all that scrutiny for years to come, not to mention the inconvenience it would cause.

I read the affidavit and came away with a totally different conclusion.

Perhaps this informs your conclusion:

Dottie strikes me as one of those women that marries a man so she can purposefully become fat, lazy, crabby and unattractive immediately afterwards. Maybe you know the kind. I think she exaggerated her agoraphobia because holding down a job and going out in public interfered with her plans to watch television all day.

I find it hard to believe that Jule would kill her mere days before relocating to Utah. If he could just hold on that few extra days, she would essentially be out of his hair forever. She would have had to piss him off something fierce. It just seems unreal that he couldn't wait the few days, kill her and because of it, spend the rest of his lifetime looking over his shoulder.

I think if Jule killed her, it was most likely in self-defense. She often threw things at him, was known to threaten and intimidate him and other people, and would often walk past the television with a knife, not to mention the scissors thing.

The segment really played up the "Dottie has agoraphobia" angle, but that seems to be mostly a ruse by Dottie. There are tons of instances, especially in the months and years leading up to her disappearance, where she was seen out and about and under no visible duress, even having a job.

I still think there's a small sliver of a chance he killed her. He can't be ruled out at this point. I think he comes across as odd and harsh to Dottie at times. Dottie was odd and harsh to him too. It probably was an unpleasant marriage for both of them. I think Jule had mixed feelings about her. He probably didn't care if she choked on her own vomit or won the lottery. If he did kill her, he committed the perfect crime.

I do not understand, if Dottie was so concerned about Jule towards the time of her disappearance, why she would continue to stay there. She was telling friends it was her plan to get away and return after Jule left. Dottie alleged that Jule threatened to kill his first wife, that he was abusive, than he threatened to "pop her off" just before June 12, 1985. Why wouldn't she get away? And why on Earth would she stay married to a man for 12 years that, according to her, planned on killing his first wife? Did she not think she could wind up in the same spot at some point? It's why I have a hard time believing a lot of her claims.

I think we need to view things more from a "is it likely something else could have happened to Dottie?" perspective as opposed to "is Jule guilty because of some of his statements" perspective.

First, let's focus on the situation with the cars. Jule stated that he drove Dottie to the Plesant Hill BART station and dropped her off. He stated that he later found Dottie's car parked next to his at the Pleasant Hill BART station. Jule claimed he returned several times over the course of the following days and kept moving the vehicle to prevent it from getting a ticket.

Additionally, a bus ticket was found in Dottie's purse, which was in her car. It was later determined that the ticket could have only been printed on one of two days, with June 12, 1985 (the day of Dottie's disappearance) being one of the days. Therefore, there is at least a 50% chance the ticket was printed on that day.

So what does all of this mean? In order to believe that Jule killed his wife, we must believe that Jule drove Dottie's car (a bright yellow, distinctive looking Volkswagen Beetle, which was quite old at that point) to the Pleasant Hill BART station, parked it in a busy parking lot, went into the terminal and purchased a ticket, took it back to Dottie's car and planted it there, found a ride home with someone, then returned several times over the course of the next several days and moved the car repeatedly, all without being seen by anyone at any time, with most or all of said actions occurring in broad daylight in a busy area.

And there's an additional nugget: The Caylors lived in Concord, California, and there is a BART station there. All of the above happened in Pleasant Hill, which was about a 5-7 minute drive from Concord. If Jule was doing all of the things associated with planting Dottie's car elsewhere and such, wouldn't he have stood a lesser chance of getting noticed by parking her car at the BART station in the same city they resided, rather than taking it presumably farther away to the Pleasant Hill station?

You know I just thought of something here. It kind of donned on me and it might be a little irrelevant. But if Dottie went through all this trouble of setting up Jule and if Dottie wasn't this agoraphobic person portrayed in the episode. Don't you think after years and years of investigating, Dottie would have dropped Jule a line? A postcard maybe? A dozen rotten flowers? Something to indicate to him, that she was alive to taunt him for all "the trouble" he's had to go through in the past few decades into the investigation of this case?

I could be wrong here or maybe Dottie just didn't really care enough to send Jule anything, if she did in fact just disappear to get away from Jule. It just seems odd that Jule would not send anything to Jule to rub it in, that she's alive and he's miserable with all the trouble he's had to go through. That's just my opinion.

You know I just thought of something here. It kind of donned on me and it might be a little irrelevant. But if Dottie went through all this trouble of setting up Jule and if Dottie wasn't this agoraphobic person portrayed in the episode. Don't you think after years and years of investigating, Dottie would have dropped Jule a line? A postcard maybe? A dozen rotten flowers? Something to indicate to him, that she was alive to taunt him for all "the trouble" he's had to go through in the past few decades into the investigation of this case?

I could be wrong here or maybe Dottie just didn't really care enough to send Jule anything, if she did in fact just disappear to get away from Jule. It just seems odd that Jule would not send anything to Jule to rub it in, that she's alive and he's miserable with all the trouble he's had to go through. That's just my opinion.

It's possible she was the one that mailed the letter from Gary, Indiana, the one that accused Jule of murdering her. Curiously, a female's DNA was found on the envelope. Interestingly, Indiana is right next door to two states significant to this case: Ohio, where Dottie was known to have relatives, and Illinois, where a man claimed that Dottie had worked for him as a legal secretary (which she had experience in). That would certainly be a way to mess with Jule's mind.

It's possible she was the one that mailed the letter from Gary, Indiana, the one that accused Jule of murdering her. Curiously, a female's DNA was found on the envelope. Interestingly, Indiana is right next door to two states significant to this case: Ohio, where Dottie was known to have relatives, and Illinois, where a man claimed that Dottie had worked for him as a legal secretary (which she had experience in). That would certainly be a way to mess with Jule's mind.

I'd say all of that is coincidental because that's not what I meant at all. If Dottie was this vindictive woman as you've painted her in your previous posts, I don't think a small letter coming from a state that neighbored 2 other states she had connections in would be a way of messing with Jule's mind.

Dottie would have wanted Jule's to know it was her and would have addressed whatever was sent to him by her name. Or at the very least said things about the couple only the 2 of them would know. Like an inside joke or something. Dottie would have full intimate knowledge of how to push Jule's buttons and I think if a woman took the time to stage a whole disappearance knowing Jule would have to go through the trouble of dealing with law enforcement. I'm pretty sure she would have gone through great lengths to taunt him. But that's me.

I'd say all of that is coincidental because that's not what I meant at all. If Dottie was this vindictive woman as you've painted her in your previous posts, I don't think a small letter coming from a state that neighbored 2 other states she had connections in would be a way of messing with Jule's mind.

Dottie would have wanted Jule's to know it was her and would have addressed whatever was sent to him by her name. Or at the very least said things about the couple only the 2 of them would know. Like an inside joke or something. Dottie would have full intimate knowledge of how to push Jule's buttons and I think if a woman took the time to stage a whole disappearance knowing Jule would have to go through the trouble of dealing with law enforcement. I'm pretty sure she would have gone through great lengths to taunt him. But that's me.

it absolutely would mess with his mind. The writer tried to give off the impression that they had inside knowledge of Jule murdering Dottie. It's not the kind of thing he wants floating around.

In the 2000's, Jule attempted to run for state legislature in Utah, but his attempts were not allowed by party leaders who learned that he was a suspect in her disappearance. So it was still effecting him two decades later.

it absolutely would mess with his mind. The writer tried to give off the impression that they had inside knowledge of Jule murdering Dottie. It's not the kind of thing he wants floating around.

In the 2000's, Jule attempted to run for state legislature in Utah, but his attempts were not allowed by party leaders who learned that he was a suspect in her disappearance. So it was still effecting him two decades later.

As I stated previously Dottie would have made an obvious effort to let Jule know A) she was alive B) that she orchestrated the entire disappearance C) taunting Jule about it.

Giving the impression and explicitly having inside knowledge of a case are 2 entirely different scenarios.

As I stated previously Dottie would have made an obvious effort to let Jule know A) she was alive B) that she orchestrated the entire disappearance C) taunting Jule about it.

Giving the impression and explicitly having inside knowledge of a case are 2 entirely different scenarios.

I don't think Dottie would give Jule something he could use to his benefit. If the goal was to make Jule go through all that suspicion, she wouldn't give him something he could use as attempt to prove that she's still alive. Granted, the police may not have believed Jule if he provided a letter that he says contained something only he and Dottie would know, but without Dottie present to rebuff, it doesn't give the police a solid reason not to believe Jule.

Additionally, Dottie wouldn't want anything being traced back to her. Obviously, she would have left her name off the return address, but it still would have been postmarked from the city she mailed it from, which presumably would be close to where she was living. Thus, people would then know where to look.

Also, I think it's pretty rare for people to seek out disproportional revenge. Usually, people seeking out revenge get even through one act, and that's enough to satisfy them. If Dottie survived after 6/12/85, I would have to imagine she watched the UM segment about herself and was content with knowing Jule was put into the hot seat over her disappearance. If she already got the touchdown, was there a need to spike the ball?

If Dottie survived after 6/12/85, I would have to imagine she watched the UM segment about herself and was content with knowing Jule was put into the hot seat over her disappearance. If she already got the touchdown, was there a need to spike the ball?

If she were as awful and vindictive as you say she was... then yes. You spike the crap out of that ball.

Yes i agree! Jules Caylor killed her or had someone do it. Case closed!

If she were as awful and vindictive as you say she was... then yes. You spike the crap out of that ball.

It's not so much what I say, but what other people said. Nearly everybody that knew her described her as unpleasant to be around. She had a tendency to write angry, bitter letters, with some of those being directed at Jule's elderly parents for unexplained reasons.

Just watched the segment for the first time and then when I found this thread, I got sucked in and went through all 12 pgs (though I don't have the time to read through that PC affidavit at the moment).

This has been a tough one for me. Jule's attitude and such was disconcerting, but the information in the affidavit which others have mentioned here is a little too damning to dismiss it seems.

That said, a thing or two still stick out to me

Where was she killed?

Could it have been in the woods/wilderness somewhere? Early on in the thread, some posited that this made sense given Jule's line of work and associated knowledge.

Or could it have been in/around the house? Again, going back a few pages in this thread, someone mentioned that an 'anomaly' was found beneath the patio? (and why wasn't this followed up on?? lack of cause I'm guessing)

Like I said, I haven't read the affidavit - that aside though, I still can't fathom why he hasn't been charged. Yeah, I get there's no physical evidence to point to a crime.

He doesn't seem to be too smart though. If this was premeditated, then he could've been more careful tying up 'loose ends' and at least put a little more effort into shoring up the whole disappearance angle, despite his obvious disdain/ambivalence. If this wasn't premeditated and more spur of the moment, or perhaps an accident - then I want to think there would be at least one slip-up somewhere--a clue he forgot about/the investigators overlooked, someone who saw/heard something definitive etc.

Also, what about the supposed sightings of Dottie after the fact? If Jule killed her, then how would these be explained away??

I've enjoyed reading posts from both sides of the fence here and like I said, I'll get to that affidavit this weekend (which might answer some of these questions)

It's possible she was the one that mailed the letter from Gary, Indiana, the one that accused Jule of murdering her. Curiously, a female's DNA was found on the envelope. Interestingly, Indiana is right next door to two states significant to this case: Ohio, where Dottie was known to have relatives, and Illinois, where a man claimed that Dottie had worked for him as a legal secretary (which she had experience in). That would certainly be a way to mess with Jule's mind.

Do you know where in Illinois she supposedly worked for someone as a legal secretary?

Jules killed/had her killed.

Dottie was an extreme recluse, and shut-in. There's no way she would stray from home too long. I feel like she was 100% dependent on Jules, and would've returned eventually. He seemed dead/non-remorseful behind the eyes, like a "whatever" kind of feeling.

Jules reminded me of a lesbian hobbit. I kind of thought he was a female at first.

I have gone back and forth on this case myself. While on the surface all evidence points to Jule, I think the reason, the big reason he hasn't been charged is that there is literally no evidence of a crime having been committed.

To me if Jule had done this I don't think he would have been that cocky. I mean I think he was drained mentally and emotionally and yeah he came off as a jerk but lots of people do. It doesn't make them killers. He had evidently had extramarital affairs before so I don't really know of what motive he would have had to kill her?

If he did kill her I think it was less premeditated and more in the heat of the moment. I would wonder if the Concord Police searched his house? It is hard to tell.

She did have agoraphobia however she had been improving significantly before her disappearance and honestly if you have Valium or Xanax, while it might be uncomfortable the anxiety, it isn't something that can't be worked through.

Again though Jule had hit her with a typing stand and he worked I believe for the U.S. Forestry Service or Parks Service so he would have knowledge of all sorts of park areas. I will watch it again the segment as my memory isn't as sharp on all the details as it once was.

The biggest thing Jule has going against him is in my opinion the fact he didn't report her missing and she had been missing for several days before the police were notified by a different police agency that she was missing. Leaving notes on her car which by his own admission he was the first one to find, yet he didn't report her missing during that time and left notes on it.

IS it because he genuinely thought she was missing and wanted her to come back? Or was it to establish an alibi of sorts to throw police off the track and make them think he was concerned as he knew sooner or later someone would ask about her? It is a case that while I would lean towards that he murdered his wife the evidence is so circumstantial I can see why he hasn't been charged.

The biggest thing Jule has going against him is in my opinion the fact he didn't report her missing and she had been missing for several days before the police were notified by a different police agency that she was missing. Leaving notes on her car which by his own admission he was the first one to find, yet he didn't report her missing during that time and left notes on it.

IS it because he genuinely thought she was missing and wanted her to come back? Or was it to establish an alibi of sorts to throw police off the track and make them think he was concerned as he knew sooner or later someone would ask about her? It is a case that while I would lean towards that he murdered his wife the evidence is so circumstantial I can see why he hasn't been charged.

Good post. Welcome back.

I think that is exactly what he was trying to do.

I also agree that the reason he hasn't been charged is lack of good evidence.

Where was she killed?

Could it have been in the woods/wilderness somewhere? Early on in the thread, some posited that this made sense given Jule's line of work and associated knowledge.

That's possible, but highly unlikely. Dottie was avoiding Jule like the plague by this point, so I doubt she would take a mysterious trip out into the wilderness with him.

Or could it have been in/around the house?

That's also highly unlikely. Someone (I think it might have been the realtor) described it as filthy and cluttered. There would have had to been evidence left. There was none.

Again, going back a few pages in this thread, someone mentioned that an 'anomaly' was found beneath the patio? (and why wasn't this followed up on?? lack of cause I'm guessing)

They did dig it up. They found a dead dog. Nothing else.

Do you know where in Illinois she supposedly worked for someone as a legal secretary?

IIRC Chicago.

The biggest thing Jule has going against him is in my opinion the fact he didn't report her missing and she had been missing for several days before the police were notified by a different police agency that she was missing. Leaving notes on her car which by his own admission he was the first one to find, yet he didn't report her missing during that time and left notes on it.

Jule stated that he originally thought Dottie left to make things inconvenient for him. Some would say he's not the most reliable source, however that jives with what Dottie told people in that she planned to stay away until Jule had completed his move to Utah, and then resurface afterward. Jule did not know where she was or who she was staying with (and Dottie probably didn't have any motivation to tell him, given the circumstances -- they were separating, etc), so he wasn't aware until some time passed that she had disappeared.

Thanks for the welcome back too Meg the Egg. Sorry for not acknowledging that earlier.

The affadavit is pretty interesting. If you believe Jule is guilty, you'll find a ton of stuff to support your theory. If you think he's innocent, you'll find a ton of stuff to support your theory. It depends on what side of the fence you are on.

I tend to believe he is innocent. I'm not at 100% though. However, the complete lack of evidence that even a crime has been committed is tough to get past, as is Jule's lack of criminal history. Jule could have murdered Dottie at home, but would he then leave quickly thereafter to another state and leave the place for investigators to comb over? That seems unlikely. If he is guilty, he was confident that he got away with it by 1987 (2 years after) to the point he went on t.v. and said he wasn't bothered at all at being considered a suspect. In that case, he's either innocent or has a lot of chutzpah.

There are a lot of other scenarios as to what could have happened to Dottie, all of them viable. She was leading a secret existence after all. She was even keeping a file cabinet on things someone would do if they planned to voluntarily disappear.

I apologize if that has been mentioned before, but one other possibility (other than Jule murdering Dottie or her running away) is suicide. She could have killed herself and done so in a way that here body wouldn't be found. This COULD have been a way for her to free herself from the pain and possibly frame Jule. Almost like a final "middle finger" to him.

The hardest part I have with the theory of Dottie fleeing is that people I've known with agoraphobia have a hell of a time just leaving the house period. Going to the store, the mall, etc. can cause major anxiety. This could be overcome with medication or therapy and we don't know Dottie's exact frame of mind at that point. But if she had agoraphobia as bad as the segment indicates, I highly doubt she would be able to flee her home and start a new life. For agoraphobics, home is safety, even if it isn't perfect.

I'm on the fence with Jule. I don't think there is a lot of evidence that he murdered her, but he is such a giant ass and his lack of compassion for her in any way is scary. It really wouldn't shock me if he did murder her.

I apologize if that has been mentioned before, but one other possibility (other than Jule murdering Dottie or her running away) is suicide. She could have killed herself and done so in a way that here body wouldn't be found. This COULD have been a way for her to free herself from the pain and possibly frame Jule. Almost like a final "middle finger" to him.

The hardest part I have with the theory of Dottie fleeing is that people I've known with agoraphobia have a hell of a time just leaving the house period. Going to the store, the mall, etc. can cause major anxiety. This could be overcome with medication or therapy and we don't know Dottie's exact frame of mind at that point. But if she had agoraphobia as bad as the segment indicates, I highly doubt she would be able to flee her home and start a new life. For agoraphobics, home is safety, even if it isn't perfect.

I'm on the fence with Jule. I don't think there is a lot of evidence that he murdered her, but he is such a giant ass and his lack of compassion for her in any way is scary. It really wouldn't shock me if he did murder her.

The suicide theory is a really good one, but why was her body never found? I could see her killing herself, and Jule did away with her body so he wouldn't be blamed for her death.

But if she did commit suicide, then why was her car at the train station?

I think Jules cheated, and Dottie found out, which explains the "scissors incident". I think after he hit her the first time, he just kept at it whenever he got angry, and probably killed her one day in a blind rage.

This case really reminds me of Monika Rizzo. An increasingly abusive husband starts gradually beating his wife, kills her in a rage, and hides the body. Sad.

EDIT: I found it odd that Jules said he found out about her "secret life" a.k.a woman's support group, around the time of her disappearance. I wonder if that's the reason he killed her? He found out, confronted her, perhaps she said she was going to leave him/didn't like the fact she was doing stuff behind his back, and he snapped. Or maybe he was receiving a job transfer, and didn't want the "dead weight" so he killed her.

The suicide theory is a really good one, but why was her body never found? I could see her killing herself, and Jule did away with her body so he wouldn't be blamed for her death.

But if she did commit suicide, then why was her car at the train station?

She could have taken her car to the BART station, got on a train to San Francisco, and jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge. It is one of the most popular suicide sights in the world. Depending on when she did it, there may have been no witnesses or her body could have been swept out to sea. She could have also killed herself in the wilderness of northern California. Depending on where she did it, it could make finding her body difficult.

I don't say this is a likely theory, but I do think it is possible.

freakbook alluded to a moment of rage turning deadly. That's basically what I consider the most likely scenario. What initiated the event, I can't say with any degree of certainty. But I think the couple had a physical altercation and he killed her, perhaps even unintentionally.

Ms. Koehler said it herself: The only person stating Dottie even made it to the BART station is Jule. There's no one else, to our knowledge, that can account for Dottie at that train station that day.

perhaps even unintentionally.

This is what I think happened, but can't say for sure. If she was so dysfunctional, then I think a divorce would've been necessary. I always found it weird they didn't get divorced. I feel like he got angry about something (maybe the woman's retreat) and snapped, but didn't mean to kill her.

"Even her disappearance was a hassle" I bet it was. I get the feeling she was leaving him, or he found out about her "secret life". Abusive men feel like they have a "power" over the abused. I bet Jules felt like he was losing his "power", and killed her in a rage.

I apologize if that has been mentioned before, but one other possibility (other than Jule murdering Dottie or her running away) is suicide. She could have killed herself and done so in a way that here body wouldn't be found. This COULD have been a way for her to free herself from the pain and possibly frame Jule. Almost like a final "middle finger" to him.

The hardest part I have with the theory of Dottie fleeing is that people I've known with agoraphobia have a hell of a time just leaving the house period. Going to the store, the mall, etc. can cause major anxiety. This could be overcome with medication or therapy and we don't know Dottie's exact frame of mind at that point. But if she had agoraphobia as bad as the segment indicates, I highly doubt she would be able to flee her home and start a new life. For agoraphobics, home is safety, even if it isn't perfect.

I'm on the fence with Jule. I don't think there is a lot of evidence that he murdered her, but he is such a giant ass and his lack of compassion for her in any way is scary. It really wouldn't shock me if he did murder her.

I think her agoraphobia is greatly exaggerated, and if she did have it, she was getting over it by the time of her disappearance. She was meeting friends, going to the support group, running errands, got a job, etc. Doesn't sound like someone who's agoraphobic to me.

With Jule, I got the impression he couldn't care less if she dropped dead or won the lottery. He was through with her, apparently had a new house and job moved on with his life.

The affidavit states that a ticket stub to the BART station was found in Dottie's car. They were not able to determine the exact date, but were able to narrow it down to two days. One of those days was June 12, 1985: The day Dottie disappeared. She was also known to have regularly met dates there.

If she were alive, she would have resurfaced by now. The mere fact that she hasn't turned back up makes me obviously believe she's dead. I don't think she ran away, I don't think she committed suicide. I think Jules is the likely perp-- I just can't prove it.

I'm 50/50 on this case.
The biggest evidence that leads me to believe he killed her was his leaving the "love letters" on the car.
Otherwise, I really didn't get the feeling he cared enough about her to murder her. (if that makes sense)
Hard to say - it really could go either way.

Otherwise, I really didn't get the feeling he cared enough about her to murder her. (if that makes sense)

Yeah, it does. I got the same feeling and it's bothered me for years. While he seems quite obviously angry, he also seems pretty tired and unmoved. To me, I always got less coldhearted sociopath and more emotionally drained, bitter ex-partner.

The things that lead me to lean toward Jule murdering Dottie is the history of violence and the fact that she last known to be in his company. Statistically I think I'm making a logical deduction. I acknowledge a certain lack of evidence appropriate for law enforcement to action on in this case, however.

I'm 50/50 on this case.
The biggest evidence that leads me to believe he killed her was his leaving the "love letters" on the car.
Otherwise, I really didn't get the feeling he cared enough about her to murder her. (if that makes sense)
Hard to say - it really could go either way.

That's a really good point. For a guy who didn't give two hoots about her when she was still around, and doesn't seem to care now, he went out of his way to appear nice to her when she was missing.

I'm still on the fence on this. I think suicide is a possibility but I don't see her just running away. I can see her confronting Jule about wanting to get a divorce and/or start a new life and he freaking out and killing her (as other's have suggested). He is such a d-bag but the overall story is just so odd.

Otherwise, I really didn't get the feeling he cared enough about her to murder her. (if that makes sense)

I'll join the "me too" wave. I also got the impression that he didn't even seem like he cared enough to hand her a paper towel, he seemed completely dead inside. Granted though, years of fighting and dealing with someone like Dottie had to have been emotionally draining. I think he killed her, and I'm not defending him, but he seemed like REALLY didn't care.

I mean even his interview is eerie, and seems apathetic "even her disappearance is a hassle". I honestly think thats what it feels like to hate someone from the very bottom of your heart. Pure apathy.

There is no proven history of violence in their marriage, save for the typing stand incident. Jule married two other women in his lifetime, as well as had a series of girlfriends. None of them ever stated he was abusive.

As for the typing stand incident, I wouldn't be surprised if Dottie instigated that incident. Jule stated that Dottie stood over him with the scissors. That's totally believable, since their daughter stated that Dottie frequently walked in front of the t.v. while Jule was watching it with those scissors in an intimidating fashion. (then again, it might have been a knife). The daughter (you can see a picture of her in the segment with her parents), also stated that Dottie frequently threw things at Jule and wrote his elderly parents hostile letters.

I have no doubt Dottie wanted people to believe she was a battered wife, just like she wanted people to think she had agoraphobia. But there isn't any indication that her relatives or friends ever saw bruises on her and such. If they had, I'm sure we would have heard about it in the segment.

If Dottie did disappear voluntarily or something, I could totally understand Jule being upset about it. He was put under a cloud of suspicion as a result, so I could see him being bitter that she arranged it that way.

The whole car thing is just bizarre. I don't know what to make of it really. In the letters, Jule did make several pleas with her to come home, but I think he was confused as to why her car was there. So, in the days between June 13th and 17th, he did make an effort to find her, he just wasn't sure why her car was parked next to his and probably figured she had returned to the area.

One unexplained question: If Jule is guilty, then how would he have gotten her cart to the BART station in Concord? That was a busy parking lot (I think it was described as usually packed), and no doubt a yellow Volkswagen Beetle would have stood out. Could he have taken it there, remain unseen by anyone, then somehow get transportation back to the house? That seems pretty unlikely.

There is no proven history of violence in their marriage, save for the typing stand incident. Jule married two other women in his lifetime, as well as had a series of girlfriends. None of them ever stated he was abusive.

As for the typing stand incident, I wouldn't be surprised if Dottie instigated that incident. Jule stated that Dottie stood over him with the scissors. That's totally believable, since their daughter stated that Dottie frequently walked in front of the t.v. while Jule was watching it with those scissors in an intimidating fashion. (then again, it might have been a knife). The daughter (you can see a picture of her in the segment with her parents), also stated that Dottie frequently threw things at Jule and wrote his elderly parents hostile letters.

For Dottie to have gone to that women's retreat, some other abuse had to have been going on. I can't see her breaking out of her shell, and going to a women's retreat for one night stand incident. And while Jules may not have been abusive to his other mates, Dottie was different. She would have been a lot harder to deal with considering the scissors, throwing, letter writing, and not working, those things take a toll. I will add in a lot of cases like this one, incidents of abuse usually spiral to other incidents of abuse, so it's possible that after the first incident, it just became normal, or perhaps they physically fought more.

That said, I believe Dottie had a reason to act the way she did. I can't imagine a woman who's a reclusive shut-in randomly trying to cut her husband with scissors, writing letters to his parents, throwing things for no reason, etc. I believe Jules cheated and she found out. We only have one side of the story so it's extremely easy to make Dottie the "crazy one". Jules could've cheated, ignored her, etc to have made her act the way she did. I don't think she was all crazy since she had the courage to go to a women's retreat on her own.

freakbook alluded to a moment of rage turning deadly. That's basically what I consider the most likely scenario. What initiated the event, I can't say with any degree of certainty. But I think the couple had a physical altercation and he killed her, perhaps even unintentionally.

I've always assumed the argument started over the living arrangements. Jule wanted to rent out the house (and actually had rented it out while Dottie was still missing, swell guy), and Dottie was under the impression that she was going to still live there and pay Jule the rent.

For Dottie to have gone to that women's retreat, some other abuse had to have been going on. I can't see her breaking out of her shell, and going to a women's retreat for one night stand incident. And while Jules may not have been abusive to his other mates, Dottie was different. She would have been a lot harder to deal with considering the scissors, throwing, letter writing, and not working, those things take a toll. I will add in a lot of cases like this one, incidents of abuse usually spiral to other incidents of abuse, so it's possible that after the first incident, it just became normal, or perhaps they physically fought more.

That said, I believe Dottie had a reason to act the way she did. I can't imagine a woman who's a reclusive shut-in randomly trying to cut her husband with scissors, writing letters to his parents, throwing things for no reason, etc. I believe Jules cheated and she found out. We only have one side of the story so it's extremely easy to make Dottie the "crazy one". Jules could've cheated, ignored her, etc to have made her act the way she did. I don't think she was all crazy since she had the courage to go to a women's retreat on her own.

One of Dottie's friends in the segment said, in regards to the typing stand incident "He finally hit her..." So that means there was no abuse from Jule on Dottie from 1973-late 1981. In terms of after that, considering how much Dottie's friends and sister were putting him down in the segment, I would think they would have jumped all over it had there been additional abuse.

Her agoraphobia was exaggerated. She owned a car. If she never left the house, why would she need a car?

Jule was cheating on her by the time June 1985 rolled around. Dottie was cheating on Jule by this time also. Both of them had moved on.

There are numerous reports as to Dottie's mental state, that come from people other than Jule. One of them was from the realtor that handled their house, who said that she wasn't at all surprised that Dottie disappeared, stating she "wandered around the house in a daze." Even Dottie's sister had conflicts with her to the point that she refused when Dottie asked her to move in with her. By almost all accounts, she wasn't an easy person to get along with.

Abuse does not have to be physical. Jule very well may have been emotionally abusive the entire time they were married. He only has to hit and choke her once to kill her, if that's what happened.

Just because Dottie didn't have bruises, it doesn't mean she wasn't abused.

Abuse does not have to be physical. Jule very well may have been emotionally abusive the entire time they were married. He only has to hit and choke her once to kill her, if that's what happened.

Just because Dottie didn't have bruises, it doesn't mean she wasn't abused.

That is correct. I should have been more specific.

One of Dottie's friends in the segment said, in regards to the typing stand incident "He finally hit her..." So that means there was no abuse from Jule on Dottie from 1973-late 1981. In terms of after that, considering how much Dottie's friends and sister were putting him down in the segment, I would think they would have jumped all over it had there been additional abuse.

That they knew of. The incident with the stand could've been the straw that broke the camels back, but she could've been physically abused all along. There could've been other incidents of physical abuse, because in a lot of cases the victim is typically afraid to say anything because of embarrassment, or revenge from the attacker.

And I'll agree with lookslikecricci that she could've been verbally, or mentally abused and the scissors incident caused her to strike. I mean, if we believe he hated her as much as he leads on in the segment, then there is no doubt in my mind he was verbally abusing her, since she didn't work, and barely left the house. He had barely a good thing to say about her, I'm sure he didn't hold those insults back.

I mean, if we believe he hated her as much as he leads on in the segment, then there is no doubt in my mind he was verbally abusing her, since she didn't work, and barely left the house. He had barely a good thing to say about her, I'm sure he didn't hold those insults back.

I'm sure they loved each other in the beginning, but it was clear to me that they had both moved on after a dozen years of marriage. I know in some respects, Jule does seem pretty cold to her in the segment, but I think it was more ambivalence than anything. I don't think he wished bad things on her, he was just done with her.

I'm sure they loved each other in the beginning, but it was clear to me that they had both moved on after a dozen years of marriage. I know in some respects, Jule does seem pretty cold to her in the segment, but I think it was more ambivalence than anything. I don't think he wished bad things on her, he was just done with her.

Keep in mind he was married to another woman and had a young child when he met Dottie, and he was already engaged to another woman when Dottie left. He also cheated on her numerous times. This guy had absolutely no respect for women and yet he kept attracting them like flies on roadkill.

I'm no psychologist, but my guess is that Jule has narcissistic personality disorder or something similar. His ability to be so cold to someone so important to him is scary. They may have fallen out of love, but he treated Dottie like an old t-shirt. The guy is just a total classless ass.

Keep in mind he was married to another woman and had a young child when he met Dottie, and he was already engaged to another woman when Dottie left. He also cheated on her numerous times. This guy had absolutely no respect for women and yet he kept attracting them like flies on roadkill.

I'm no psychologist, but my guess is that Jule has narcissistic personality disorder or something similar. His ability to be so cold to someone so important to him is scary. They may have fallen out of love, but he treated Dottie like an old t-shirt. The guy is just a total classless ass.

Heh. Love the roadkill line.

What you said is true, however I've read that Dottie pursued Jule, even after learning that he was married. So apparently it wasn't an issue for her. I believe she might have even convinced him to leave his first wife for her.

Holy crap, I just thought of something.

For a while now, I've been heavily leaning towards Dottie disappearing on her own accord. But what if she committed suicide? Think about it. If she was as agoraphobic as made out to be, perhaps the thought of her being out in public as much as it would require someone living alone was too much for her. Because in order to live alone, she would have had to have a full-time job to support herself, and she would have had to run errands all the time. Perhaps this was too much, and she offed herself, staging it in such a way that it would make Jule come under a cloud of suspicion, which she enjoyed as a final insult to him.

One could argue that this would explain why she hasn't contacted relatives, or did anything with the $5,000 check.

btw, I don't think this was ever posted, but here's one of the notes Jule left on Dottie's car. This is verbatim:

-------------


My Dearest Dottie,

It is Saturday, June 15, and you have been gone four days. I am so lonely I really don't know how to survive. I need you -- I always have. I have tried so hard to be good to you -- to be good for you. If you could only see that. I couldn't believe it when I found your car parked beside mine on Thursday. I have been checking and making sure it isn't ticketed. What in the world did you get into to get all the footprints on your freshly washed paint? -- and why in the world did you leave your purse? How are you getting by with so few clothes? Whom are you with? Please, God call me and let me know what you are doing and where you will be -- when you will be back.

You thought I could get an independent loan if you would not sign. But I can't. So you really screwed up my life by refusing to sign those loan papers since the property is in both of our names. I don't know what to do. I can neither sell it nor get a loan (on it) until you are willing to sign the papers with me. Are you with Shelly? She called a few days ago but she has not called back, so you must be with her. Please give me her last name or a phone number. Since I cannot reach you, I must rent out this place to be able to obtain enough income to cover the loan on my other place � otherwise I cannot get anything in SLC. So you will have to take the room you planned to take with Shelly. I have no choice being in the position you have placed me in. So now I cannot give you any choice either. Don't try to screw up this deal. You must cooperate with me this time since you gave me no options last time.

Since I don't know even where to contact you, I don't know where to send your things. I would send them to your sister, but I don't want to embarrass you or burden her since she doesn't have much room. I will simply take all the stuff with me unless you contact me and tell me to do something different. In any case you can get back from me everything that is yours. I don't know what else to do. I don't know any of your friends so I have no place to move it.

I am trying to figure out how to forward my mail. But since I must rent this I have to forward your mail also. But again I don't know where or to whom. So I will forward all of our mail to Utah. It will go to my office since I don't know when I will be able to get into my new home � if I even can still get it with the delays that have arisen from your refusal to sign the loan. But strangely enough I still care for you � even through all the horrible hurts and loneliness you have put me through. If I could have you here, trying, helping me again I would give you everything that you asked for. It might not strain me that much. And if you really would work as you said you would so you can get financially independent in a year then I would really lose very little. Please oh please contact me. Don't wait until I am in SLC to let me know what to do. It just is not fair.

Being alone is no fun (for me). I hope it is no fun for you either. You said you have grown tired of marriage. So what? Everybody finds things get rough at some time in their life. I am still trying for you. Can't you try for me? No, I guess not! Trying together is past for now. Perhaps at some later time???

I have been checking your car several times a day -- leaving notes. I will leave this letter for now. For some reason I am a little apprehensive. I cannot understand why or how you could get along without your purse. Are you OK? You must be. You are so good at taking care of yourself.

The guy who wanted to buy the boat just came back. I think I will sell it to him. It is just too much of a pain to try to take it with me. Please come back home. I need to get so many details straightened out that only you can help me with. Please come home.

How I wish I didn't still love you. How I wish you still did love me.

Jule

P.S. You know where to find me in SLC. Contact me there (work) like you said you would. I will give you my home address and phone number as soon as I have one. What your doing with Harriett? You must stop torturing me this way. I simply cannot take it any more. If you are going to do something, for God's sake do it. If you aren't, then for God's sake stop talking about it. I cannot stand the mind-bending � the "now we do it, now we don't" syndrome. Decide something, Dottie, and do it. This indecision is killing me. You are the one who demanded I search for a new love. That wasn't my idea.

-------------

Now that is a bizarre note to be sure, as he goes back and forth between mushy and gushy to angry. My takeaways:

-Jule does seem genuinely shocked that she would leave her purse and car where she did. Now if Jule killed Dottie, then why would he not dump her purse with her? Wouldn't it be better for him to get rid of the purse since everyone agrees that she would take it if she voluntarily disappeared?

-He does make an attempt at finding out her whereabouts, contrary to what other people have reported. Based on the things he writes, he believes that she is alive and purposefully staying away to make his life inconvenient, which jives with what he said in the segment.

-Jule states Dottie had plans to stay with Shelly. Shelly is one of Dottie's friends, interviewed in the segment. One could argue we should take what Jule says with a grain of salt, however there are numerous accounts from other people that state Dottie did plan to stay away from Jule until he relocated, then return. So this jives with that.

-The reason he rents the house is explained in the note.

-Jule does seem to make a reasonable attempt at appropriately handling Dottie's belongings, contrary to what her sister was reporting that Jule hurriedly got rid of her things and wouldn't let her search through them.

-Jule also states Dottie had plans to work to be able to live on her own financially, which would make sense, casting further doubt on how agoraphobic she was.

-Jule states he doesn't know any of Dottie's friends, so this would explain why he didn't call any of them to find out her whereabouts, or know where she was going in the first place.

btw, I don't think this was ever posted, but here's one of the notes Jule left on Dottie's car. This is verbatim:

-------------


My Dearest Dottie,

It is Saturday, June 15, and you have been gone four days. I am so lonely I really don't know how to survive. I need you -- I always have. I have tried so hard to be good to you -- to be good for you. If you could only see that. I couldn't believe it when I found your car parked beside mine on Thursday. I have been checking and making sure it isn't ticketed. What in the world did you get into to get all the footprints on your freshly washed paint? -- and why in the world did you leave your purse? How are you getting by with so few clothes? Whom are you with? Please, God call me and let me know what you are doing and where you will be -- when you will be back.

You thought I could get an independent loan if you would not sign. But I can't. So you really screwed up my life by refusing to sign those loan papers since the property is in both of our names. I don't know what to do. I can neither sell it nor get a loan (on it) until you are willing to sign the papers with me. Are you with Shelly? She called a few days ago but she has not called back, so you must be with her. Please give me her last name or a phone number. Since I cannot reach you, I must rent out this place to be able to obtain enough income to cover the loan on my other place � otherwise I cannot get anything in SLC. So you will have to take the room you planned to take with Shelly. I have no choice being in the position you have placed me in. So now I cannot give you any choice either. Don't try to screw up this deal. You must cooperate with me this time since you gave me no options last time.

Since I don't know even where to contact you, I don't know where to send your things. I would send them to your sister, but I don't want to embarrass you or burden her since she doesn't have much room. I will simply take all the stuff with me unless you contact me and tell me to do something different. In any case you can get back from me everything that is yours. I don't know what else to do. I don't know any of your friends so I have no place to move it.

I am trying to figure out how to forward my mail. But since I must rent this I have to forward your mail also. But again I don't know where or to whom. So I will forward all of our mail to Utah. It will go to my office since I don't know when I will be able to get into my new home � if I even can still get it with the delays that have arisen from your refusal to sign the loan. But strangely enough I still care for you � even through all the horrible hurts and loneliness you have put me through. If I could have you here, trying, helping me again I would give you everything that you asked for. It might not strain me that much. And if you really would work as you said you would so you can get financially independent in a year then I would really lose very little. Please oh please contact me. Don't wait until I am in SLC to let me know what to do. It just is not fair.

Being alone is no fun (for me). I hope it is no fun for you either. You said you have grown tired of marriage. So what? Everybody finds things get rough at some time in their life. I am still trying for you. Can't you try for me? No, I guess not! Trying together is past for now. Perhaps at some later time???

I have been checking your car several times a day -- leaving notes. I will leave this letter for now. For some reason I am a little apprehensive. I cannot understand why or how you could get along without your purse. Are you OK? You must be. You are so good at taking care of yourself.

The guy who wanted to buy the boat just came back. I think I will sell it to him. It is just too much of a pain to try to take it with me. Please come back home. I need to get so many details straightened out that only you can help me with. Please come home.

How I wish I didn't still love you. How I wish you still did love me.

Jule

P.S. You know where to find me in SLC. Contact me there (work) like you said you would. I will give you my home address and phone number as soon as I have one. What your doing with Harriett? You must stop torturing me this way. I simply cannot take it any more. If you are going to do something, for God's sake do it. If you aren't, then for God's sake stop talking about it. I cannot stand the mind-bending � the "now we do it, now we don't" syndrome. Decide something, Dottie, and do it. This indecision is killing me. You are the one who demanded I search for a new love. That wasn't my idea.

C'mon. This is clearly his cover-up, get out of jail free card. If Jule made it seem like without Dottie then he's screwed (needing her to sign a loan) then he figures that'll get him seen as innocent. The tone in his note is so sporadic because he's trying to make it seem "real", like he's mad at her for leaving, but loves her, it's bull. He didn't seem all that loving and concerned when he was smacking her with a type writer stand, and cheating on her. He killed her, and tried to seem legit by writing these "concerning" letters.

He knows she's dead, but by pretending that she's still out there, and he needs her, then he seems innocent. A blind person can see through this.

Well, I think we need to examine what all Jule would have to pull off if he did kill Dottie.

-Would Jule, who was having back pain a few weeks before Dottie's disappearance so severe that he could barely move, be able to lug Dottie's 200 pound corpse out somewhere, and keep it in a place that's still never been discovered, 32 years later?

-Be able to drive Dottie's distinctive looking car into a packed parking lot and not be seen by anyone, then somehow get transportation back to his house?

-Be able to pull off "the perfect crime" despite not having any criminal history that we are aware of.

-Be so confident that nobody will find anything tying him to this to the point that he relocated a few weeks afterward and has lived in another state since then?

Well, I think we need to examine what all Jule would have to pull off if he did kill Dottie.

-Would Jule, who was having back pain a few weeks before Dottie's disappearance so severe that he could barely move, be able to lug Dottie's 200 pound corpse out somewhere, and keep it in a place that's still never been discovered, 32 years later?

-Be able to drive Dottie's distinctive looking car into a packed parking lot and not be seen by anyone, then somehow get transportation back to his house?

-Be able to pull off "the perfect crime" despite not having any criminal history that we are aware of.

-Be so confident that nobody will find anything tying him to this to the point that he relocated a few weeks afterward and has lived in another state since then?

Add an accomplice and you can solve the first two.

Is there a doctor's note on his back pain, or is he lying again?

Add an accomplice and you can solve the first two.

But wouldn't the accomplice have been seen?

But wouldn't the accomplice have been seen?

Depends. Did he drive the car at night when it was hard to see, and empty? Even then, maybe no one was paying attention. Also depends where he hid/disposed of the body.

Depends. Did he drive the car at night when it was hard to see, and empty? Even then, maybe no one was paying attention. Also depends where he hid/disposed of the body.

Going back to your abuse point though, I fully understand that not all victims of spousal abuse and such report the abuse or talk about it to other people. But we know Dottie wasn't the silent type here. I'm not saying she couldn't have been physically abused, but under the circumstances, it would seem like she would have made it common knowledge he was hitting her, or at least telling her friends and sister about it.

She was also known to have kept a locked file cabinet full of things she considered important. Wouldn't she have kept photos and documentation of any abuse in there?

I just think that if he were hitting her, we would have more than one incident that varies depending on who you believe.

I was not convinced of Jule's guilt until I read all of this (http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t3293.htm).

Now I am convinced.

Going back to your abuse point though, I fully understand that not all victims of spousal abuse and such report the abuse or talk about it to other people. But we know Dottie wasn't the silent type here. I'm not saying she couldn't have been physically abused, but under the circumstances, it would seem like she would have made it common knowledge he was hitting her, or at least telling her friends and sister about it.

She was also known to have kept a locked file cabinet full of things she considered important. Wouldn't she have kept photos and documentation of any abuse in there?

I just think that if he were hitting her, we would have more than one incident that varies depending on who you believe.

Abused people aren't that textbook, you never know. It's not as simple as "she would've done X, or done X", because people deal with abuse in different ways. I thought she was the silent type, and even if she wasn't not everyone reports abuse initially. Some people are abused for years without anyone knowing, then one day it comes out, or it never does. You just never know.

I don't understand why she would keep documentations of abuse in a cabinet if she was embarrassed, or it was possible she knew Jules looked through the cabinet.

Also keep in mind that she would've been more dependent, or "hopeful" in the beginning. Maybe she was too reliant on Jules when the abuse started, and was afraid that if she said something then she would be kicked out (embarrassed to tell her friends/family her marriage isn't working) or perhaps it was a few light incidents that snowballed that she thought would go away but didn't.

Fact is no one can say either way. We can't hear from Dottie, so unfortunately we'll never truthfully understand what went on inside that home. The only word we have is from a cold, apathetic, husband who possibly killed his wife, and is trying to seem innocent by giving us a one-sided story. Jules contradicts himself a lot, and to be frank isn't trustworthy.

I was not convinced of Jule's guilt until I read all of this (http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t3293.htm).

Now I am convinced.

"Allegations Dottie made about her husband's propensity for violence and evidence she had been battered by him on one occasion."

Mmmhm. What I've been saying.

"Unbeknownst to Dottie, Caylor also had become engaged to a Colorado woman he had met on a business trip. In December 1984, he had asked her to marry him, and they had purchased wedding rings, according to the affidavit."

There's your motive. And if she was leaving then why would she leave behind her purse, and the rest of her belongings? Also, keep in mind, if the divorce did go through then Jules stood a chance of losing half/most of his stuff, which would've damaged his trip to SLC with his new fiance.

Lock this bum up.

I was not convinced of Jule's guilt until I read all of this (http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t3293.htm).

Now I am convinced.

140 page search warrant.

Ho. LEE. CRAP.

I've done a ton of search warrants-- I have NEVER done a 140 page one. I just filed a 9-page affidavit in court, which is atypically long.... DAMN. Would I love to get my hands on that piece of work!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zclxv9thwqrxp7f/Dottie%20Caylor.zip?dl=0

There's the probable cause affidavit (search warrant) for any and all to read. All 140 pages worth.

There's the probable cause affidavit (search warrant) for any and all to read. All 140 pages worth.

I'll have to read it at home. Work won't let me get into GMail or Dropbox or any of those file sharing sites...

Thanks, though!

There's the probable cause affidavit (search warrant) for any and all to read. All 140 pages worth.

Damn. Someone should just title it "the story of Jules and Dottie" and sell it in book stores.

Also, here's a podcast from 2013 hosted by Francie Koehler, the P.I. from the UM segment, and featuring Joan Morris, the writer of all those articles in Todd Mueller's link:
https://www.voiceamerica.com/episode/72459/where-is-dottie-caylor

Needless to say, there's a lot of unflattering info about Jule in this podcast. And, yes, definitely read the 140-page affidavit as well, it's pretty eye-opening and leaves virtually no doubt Jule is guilty, IMHO. I think the UM segment would have been quite different if they had known at the time that Jule was secretly engaged to another woman when Dottie disappeared and this woman broke off all contact with Jule once he told her he had an ex-wife who went missing.

Needless to say, there's a lot of unflattering info about Jule in this podcast. And, yes, definitely read the 140-page affidavit as well, it's pretty eye-opening and leaves virtually no doubt Jule is guilty, IMHO. I think the UM segment would have been quite different if they had known at the time that Jule was secretly engaged to another woman when Dottie disappeared and this woman broke off all contact with Jule once he told her he had an ex-wife who went missing.

Todd put a link to a bunch of this stuff earlier in the thread. I just got done reading it all and it is pretty incriminating, if you ask me. The part about "the other woman" reminds me so much of the Laci Peterson/Scott Peterson/Amber Frey situation... and we all know how that one turned out for Laci....

You can bet I'll be hitting up the dropbox information tonight...

The clincher for me (from that link) is the letter she wrote to Jule's mom. She stated that he threatened to murder her and she was fearful of it. So this wasn't just a spur of the moment thing for Jule, as I previously believed.

He had a new life planned and Dottie was making it rough for him financially and otherwise. He is a sick man and a huge narcissist.

The clincher for me (from that link) is the letter she wrote to Jule's mom. She stated that he threatened to murder her and she was fearful of it. So this wasn't just a spur of the moment thing for Jule, as I previously believed.

He had a new life planned and Dottie was making it rough for him financially and otherwise. He is a sick man and a huge narcissist.

Completely agree and I think you summed it up pretty perfectly.

"Allegations Dottie made about her husband's propensity for violence and evidence she had been battered by him on one occasion."

Mmmhm. What I've been saying.

I don't deny it's possible he could have battered her regularly, but I don't see it. I think either Dottie would have spoken out about it, or his other wives and girlfriends would have said something. There's nothing more than a singular account that would depend on who you believe.

"Unbeknownst to Dottie, Caylor also had become engaged to a Colorado woman he had met on a business trip. In December 1984, he had asked her to marry him, and they had purchased wedding rings, according to the affidavit."

He was also still married to his first wife when he started seeing Dottie. But he didn't kill his first wife.

There's your motive. And if she was leaving then why would she leave behind her purse, and the rest of her belongings?

Actually, I think if Jule were guilty, it would have been smarter for him to dump the purse and the overnight bag with her body. I think everyone agrees Dottie was likely to have taken them had she left voluntarily, so Jule would have been stupid to plant them next to his car. I just don't understand what his motive would be for doing so. He would have wanted to cast suspicion away from him, not towards him.

If she committed suicide, she would have no need for the purse.

Also, keep in mind, if the divorce did go through then Jules stood a chance of losing half/most of his stuff, which would've damaged his trip to SLC with his new fiance.

I believe the arrangement called for Dottie to pay Jule rent since she was going to be living in the house, so I'm not sure about that.

Lock this bum up.

If he is guilty, I would agree. But if he is guilty, he has committed the perfect crime because there isn't a scintilla of evidence he did this, or even that a crime has been committed at all. No physical evidence, no eyewitness accounts, nothing.

And there is a compelling argument that Dottie is still alive, or at least, lived for several years past 1985. There are sightings of her, and not just from random people, but people that knew her, and other sightings have her in places she was known to have been or frequented. One lady said she recognized Dottie in a department store and that she seemed shocked when she was recognized and fled the store with her face shielded. There are many other sightings that strongly suggest Dottie could have been alive as late as 1989, four years after the last completely verified sighting of her.

I don't deny it's possible Dottie is dead. I don't deny it's possible she was murdered. I don't deny Jule has his faults and cheated on his wife. But how do we know he killed her? There are other suspects. She was seeing other people also. One of them was arrested for a shooting right around the time Dottie disappeared. Or she could have ran into some perp at any point during her train ride.

I don't deny it's possible he could have battered her regularly, but I don't see it. I think either Dottie would have spoken out about it, or his other wives and girlfriends would have said something. There's nothing more than a singular account that would depend on who you believe.

The one thing I don't understand about this forum is the "I don't see it" when discussing a person of interest in a crime. Do you know Jules personally? Did you know Dottie? Were you in their house? You can't establish a person's innocence based on a 2-minute interview when there's a ton of compelling evidence against them. Fact is, we don't know what Dottie would've done, and what would his other wives/girlfriends would've said? Were they there?


was also still married to his first wife when he started seeing Dottie. But he didn't kill his first wife.

Dottie seemed to be different from his other partners. She was an eccentric shut-in who didn't work a job, their relationship seemed like a mess since the beginning. I'm not, and can't be certain if he had abused his previous partners, but Dottie was different from the typical woman. I'm not saying she deserved it, but she seemed to be more difficult to get along with.


Actually, I think if Jule were guilty, it would have been smarter for him to dump the purse and the overnight bag with her body. I think everyone agrees Dottie was likely to have taken them had she left voluntarily, so Jule would have been stupid to plant them next to his car. I just don't understand what his motive would be for doing so. He would have wanted to cast suspicion away from him, not towards him.

If she committed suicide, she would have no need for the purse.

This is an excellent point. I have no argument as to why he would leave the purse in her car, however, he did fight Dottie's sister from taking her belongings, so I'm not sure. This is a double-edged sword, because if she did leave then she would've taken them with her, so it's obviously she didn't leave voluntarily. It could have been an oversight on his part, but I don't know.


I believe the arrangement called for Dottie to pay Jule rent since she was going to be living in the house, so I'm not sure about that.

Depending on who the judge was, he still could've lost alot. Dottie suffered from agoraphobia, which crippled her ability to work a job. She also had evidence of Jules cheating on her, as she would write to the women he slept with. He still would've lost alot, and could've even had the house given to her depending on the verdict. If a judge was to determine that Dottie needed assistance, and wasn't capable of being on her own just yet, then it could've messed Jules up.

If he is guilty, I would agree. But if he is guilty, he has committed the perfect crime because there isn't a scintilla of evidence he did this, or even that a crime has been committed at all. No physical evidence, no eyewitness accounts, nothing.

True. While there is no physical evidence, he still acted in a guilty manner. Painting the walls, pouring concrete, and renting out the home right after she went missing is bizarre when she was supposed to get the house. He was also seen carrying a rolled up carpet around his mother's home.

Also, i don't believe he just "accidentally" stumbled upon her car at the BART station.

If she never made it to the BART station, she'd have no need for the purse.

Just saying.

The one thing I don't understand about this forum is the "I don't see it" when discussing a person of interest in a crime. Do you know Jules personally? Did you know Dottie? Were you in their house? You can't establish a person's innocence based on a 2-minute interview when there's a ton of compelling evidence against them. Fact is, we don't know what Dottie would've done, and what would his other wives/girlfriends would've said? Were they there?

I actually agree. For years on this forum, I fell into the trap of thinking I knew everything about a lot of cases based off a 10 minute television segment. Eventually, I realized how stupid that is. The affidavit I read a while back. As I said, a person can go two directions with it. If you believe Jule is guilty, you can find a lot to support your claims. If you believe he is innocent, you can find a lot to support your claims. But at the same time, where is the proof that he is guilty?

This is an excellent point. I have no argument as to why he would leave the purse in her car, however, he did fight Dottie's sister from taking her belongings, so I'm not sure. This is a double-edged sword, because if she did leave then she would've taken them with her, so it's obviously she didn't leave voluntarily. It could have been an oversight on his part, but I don't know.

If we believe what Jule wrote in the note, he intended to put Dottie's things with her sister, but she didn't have the room, so he took them with him. Again, you'll probably take what he says with a grain of salt, but at least it's a plausible, possible explanation for why he took her belongings.

The car thing is also weird, but what if she did that as a final way to stick it to him?

Dottie seemed to be different from his other partners. She was an eccentric shut-in who didn't work a job, their relationship seemed like a mess since the beginning. I'm not, and can't be certain if he had abused his previous partners, but Dottie was different from the typical woman. I'm not saying she deserved it, but she seemed to be more difficult to get along with.

She sounded like she was difficult to get along with, near impossible. She frequently threw things at him and threatened him with a knife (some of this was reported by Jule's daughter). This is why I believe he may have been acting in self-defense in regards to the typing stand incident.

Depending on who the judge was, he still could've lost alot. Dottie suffered from agoraphobia, which crippled her ability to work a job. She also had evidence of Jules cheating on her, as she would write to the women he slept with. He still would've lost alot, and could've even had the house given to her depending on the verdict. If a judge was to determine that Dottie needed assistance, and wasn't capable of being on her own just yet, then it could've messed Jules up.

Okay, I think I agree with that.

True. While there is no physical evidence, he still acted in a guilty manner. Painting the walls, pouring concrete, and renting out the home right after she went missing is bizarre when she was supposed to get the house. He was also seen carrying a rolled up carpet around his mother's home.

I believe he rented out the house and was fixing it up for the new people. I believe he thought she still could have returned at some point, but he had to do something with the house before he left for Utah.

I understand this sounds nutty, and nonsensical, but if Jules is guilty, then I don't think he killed her because she was going to mess up his move to SLC. I brought up the divorce settlement which could've been a factor, but the divorce seemed amicable, and split right down the middle....but something deep down tells me that if he killed her it was because of her double life.

Jules can be described as egoistical, and narcissistic, which he displays quite a bit by how he spoke about Dottie in the segment. It was a "she caused problems for me" kind of vibe, rather than "where is she?". He seemed more angry for the things she did that, rather than seeming concerned about her well-being. This bring me to my point, I think he killed her when he found out about her double-life in a fit of anger. Jules seemed to be a kind of "me me me what about me" kind of person, so it wouldn't surprise me that when he found out about her women's retreat, mailbox, and savings account that he snapped because she was hiding something from "him" "how dare she". He strikes me as that kind of egotistical person.

He even said that he found out about the double-life around the time she had went missing. So if everything was agreed upon, and he was ready to move on with a new fiance then why kill Dottie? The double-life she was hiding damaged his ego.

I just re-watched this segment and had a "duuuh" moment. I'm sure this has been repeated before, so forgive me, but I found him leaving the notes on her vehicle odd, when he had a new fiance. Some of the notes said things like "I miss you" "Come back home" "I don't know about you, but I can't stand being lonely", but why is he so lonely if he has a new fiance? Lol lock this scumbag up.

I just re-watched this segment and had a "duuuh" moment. I'm sure this has been repeated before, so forgive me, but I found him leaving the notes on her vehicle odd, when he had a new fiance. Some of the notes said things like "I miss you" "Come back home" "I don't know about you, but I can't stand being lonely", but why is he so lonely if he has a new fiance? Lol lock this scumbag up.

I absolutely agree! That letter was obviously a carefully crafted letter meant for the police and Dottie's loved ones to read to try to view Jule in a more favorable light. It contradicts the tone of their relationship even from what Jule himself said in the interview. Definitely a red herring.

I absolutely agree! That letter was obviously a carefully crafted letter meant for the police and Dottie's loved ones to read to try to view Julie in a more favorable light. It contradicts the tone of their relationship even from what Julie himself said in the interview. Definitely a red herring.

Absolutely. Those letters + what he said in the segment + his new fiance = :rolleyes:

Like you said, he wanted her loved ones, and the L.E. to view him in a favorable light, but I don't think her sister, or friends were fooled by the recent incident of him sitting her, plus keeping her sister from getting her things. It's such a poorly put together scheme it's ridiculous.

Absolutely. Those letters + what he said in the segment + his new fiance = :rolleyes:

Like you said, he wanted her loved ones, and the L.E. to view him in a favorable light, but I don't think her sister, or friends were fooled by the recent incident of him sitting her, plus keeping her sister from getting her things. It's such a poorly put together scheme it's ridiculous.

One of the letters is in the link I posted. It starts out all sweet and caring and then turns accusatory and ugly. Jule is all about Jule. Whether he was mad at Dottie, worried about money, or upset because she was leaving him, I have zero doubt anymore that he killed her.

One of the letters is in the link I posted. It starts out all sweet and caring and then turns accusatory and ugly. Jule is all about Jule. Whether he was mad at Dottie, worried about money, or upset because she was leaving him, I have zero doubt anymore that he killed her.

I read your link, and I agree completely. He was a textbook definition of a narcissistic. Those letters are one of the reasons why I'm sure he's 200% guilty. He's too up and down for them to make any sense.

I read your link, and I agree completely. He was a textbook definition of a narcissistic. Those letters are one of the reasons why I'm sure he's 200% guilty. He's too up and down for them to make any sense.

This might sound ridiculous but when I heard "love letters" I pictured actually you know love letters. lol

I wouldn't phrase what I read as a love letter - it really sounded more like he was trying to get her to come back so he could get everything straightened out and move forward with the separation. "I need to get so many details straightened out that only you can help me with."

I tend to agree with wiseguy182 assessments of the note.

This might sound ridiculous but when I heard "love letters" I pictured actually you know love letters. lol

I wouldn't phrase what I read as a love letter - it really sounded more like he was trying to get her to come back so he could get everything straightened out and move forward with the separation. "I need to get so many details straightened out that only you can help me with."

I tend to agree with wiseguy182 assessments of the note.


You and wiseguy's assessment of the note is like trying to squeeze sh1t out of a brick, it ain't happenin'.

Even Stevie Wonder can read those notes and tell they're piss poor cover-ups.

I understand this sounds nutty, and nonsensical, but if Jules is guilty, then I don't think he killed her because she was going to mess up his move to SLC. I brought up the divorce settlement which could've been a factor, but the divorce seemed amicable, and split right down the middle....but something deep down tells me that if he killed her it was because of her double life.

Jules can be described as egoistical, and narcissistic, which he displays quite a bit by how he spoke about Dottie in the segment. It was a "she caused problems for me" kind of vibe, rather than "where is she?". He seemed more angry for the things she did that, rather than seeming concerned about her well-being. This bring me to my point, I think he killed her when he found out about her double-life in a fit of anger. Jules seemed to be a kind of "me me me what about me" kind of person, so it wouldn't surprise me that when he found out about her women's retreat, mailbox, and savings account that he snapped because she was hiding something from "him" "how dare she". He strikes me as that kind of egotistical person.

He even said that he found out about the double-life around the time she had went missing. So if everything was agreed upon, and he was ready to move on with a new fiance then why kill Dottie? The double-life she was hiding damaged his ego.

If Jule is guilty, then I would tend to believe you are on the right track.

I think it would have been more of the vein that Jule couldn't stand to see Dottie well off without him. If he did kill her, I would think it was something along the lines that Dottie rubbed it in his face that she had money saved up and was going to have the house and have a job and he didn't like the thought of her not being dependent on him.

Jule said in the segment about her life "I wasn't even really aware of it, I was just suspicious." So it may not have been until afterwards that he learned of it though.

If Jule is guilty, then I would tend to believe you are on the right track.

I think it would have been more of the vein that Jule couldn't stand to see Dottie well off without him. If he did kill her, I would think it was something along the lines that Dottie rubbed it in his face that she had money saved up and was going to have the house and have a job and he didn't like the thought of her not being dependent on him.

Jule said in the segment about her life "I wasn't even really aware of it, I was just suspicious." So it may not have been until afterwards that he learned of it though.

I don't think she was the gloating type, as she seemed to have done everything in private. If they were openly seeing other people, then why did she do everything in private? If she talked to Jule's mistresses, and made friends with some of them, then why did she hide the women's retreat? Makes me believe Jule was violent, and had a hair trigger temper. Why would he care if she was going to get help for her agoraphobia?

I'm sure he was controlling and abusive. When he found out about what she was doing (she hid it from him, so she knew he was capable of this) then he snapped. I'm sure when he found out about the savings account, he snapped.

His "suspicion" could've led to investigating, which could've led to questioning Dottie, which could've led to an argument, which could've ended in a heat of the moment blow.

I don't think she was the gloating type, as she seemed to have done everything in private. If they were openly seeing other people, then why did she do everything in private? If she talked to Jule's mistresses, and made friends with some of them, then why did she hide the women's retreat? Makes me believe Jule was violent, and had a hair trigger temper. Why would he care if she was going to get help for her agoraphobia?

I'm sure he was controlling and abusive. When he found out about what she was doing (she hid it from him, so she knew he was capable of this) then he snapped. I'm sure when he found out about the savings account, he snapped.

His "suspicion" could've led to investigating, which could've led to questioning Dottie, which could've led to an argument, which could've ended in a heat of the moment blow.

I think where I get hung up though is, if Jule was mad at her (and I don't deny that he very well could have been), could he have gotten so angry that he killed her despite the fact that he was moving to another state and going to be away from her? Was he so impatient the he couldn't have waited the few days until she was out of his life and did her in and endured decades of accusations as a result?

Probably goes without saying, but it would have been much more beneficial to Jule to have waited the few days and moved on than commit a horrible crime that could have came back to haunt him.

I think where I get hung up though is, if Jule was mad at her (and I don't deny that he very well could have been), could he have gotten so angry that he killed her despite the fact that he was moving to another state and going to be away from her? Was he so impatient the he couldn't have waited the few days until she was out of his life and did her in and endured decades of accusations as a result?

Probably goes without saying, but it would have been much more beneficial to Jule to have waited the few days and moved on than commit a horrible crime that could have came back to haunt him.


His "suspicion" could've led to investigating, which could've led to questioning Dottie, which could've led to an argument, which could've ended in a heat of the moment blow.

I seriously believed the bold is what happened. Perhaps Jule had some reasons for killing her (not wanting to leave the house to her, as he felt she couldn't have made payments since she didn't have a job, so he wanted to rent it to someone more stable) but I believe that it was a heat of the moment situation when he confirmed his "suspicions".

But maybe he had another motive. I have strong feelings towards a divorce settlement he didn't want, or something to do with giving her the home.

One thing I find interesting was that her bee-sting kit was missing out of her purse. Technically, she would need that above all else to survive.

One thing I find interesting was that her bee-sting kit was missing out of her purse. Technically, she would need that above all else to survive.

Could've fallen out somewhere. Could've been in the house. I don't think she'd take her bee stinging kit, and leave her entire purse behind.

Maybe Jule know she couldn't have been without it, so he buried/burned it with her so the argument of "she wouldn't leave this behind" wouldn't come up. He messed up on the purse, but made sure the kit was gone with her body. If the kit was there, then for sure people would assume he was guilty without doubt, and that she didn't take the train.

Could've fallen out somewhere. Could've been in the house. I don't think she'd take her bee stinging kit, and leave her entire purse behind.

Maybe Jule know she couldn't have been without it, so he buried/burned it with her so the argument of "she wouldn't leave this behind" wouldn't come up. He messed up on the purse, but made sure the kit was gone with her body. If the kit was there, then for sure people would assume he was guilty without doubt, and that she didn't take the train.

Yeah, but wouldn't it have been easier and smarter just to dump the purse and overnight bag with her?

Yeah, but wouldn't it have been easier and smarter just to dump the purse and overnight bag with her?

It would've been, but I don't know why he didn't. He could have made an oversight, he could have made a dumb decision, I don't know.

Given how he left those flimsy notes, I'll say he just made a dumb mistake. What sense would it have made for her to make it to the BART station, she decides to leave her purse with her belongings in her car, and then decides to just take her bee stinging kit and leave everything else? It literally makes no sense. And I don't believe Jule randomly found her car either.

I think where I get hung up though is, if Jule was mad at her (and I don't deny that he very well could have been), could he have gotten so angry that he killed her despite the fact that he was moving to another state and going to be away from her? Was he so impatient the he couldn't have waited the few days until she was out of his life and did her in and endured decades of accusations as a result?

Probably goes without saying, but it would have been much more beneficial to Jule to have waited the few days and moved on than commit a horrible crime that could have came back to haunt him.

Started back at the beginning (Season 1) again, just finished this segment and came back to this thread.

I think Jule's narcissism overruled whatever good judgement he had left. I do agree that on some level he was absolutely ambivalent about Dottie and his life with her, but his narcissism/need to control-dominate/make things about him won out and prompted some kind of confrontation where he killed her in a fit of rage (without premeditation, he needed to have the last word so to speak in order to satisfy his own ego).

I also think that after he killed her, he staged things (the car, the notes etc) in a clumsy attempt to cover his own hide.

The biggest piece of evidence of Jule's innocence to me is that he was never charged. After reading the evidence on this case it's clear the police spent a lot of resources and Jule didn't come across as very intelligent and his indifference is obvious. If he killed in a fit of rage I would imagine he would have slipped up and left evidence somewhere, right?

The biggest piece of evidence of Jule's innocence to me is that he was never charged. After reading the evidence on this case it's clear the police spent a lot of resources and Jule didn't come across as very intelligent and his indifference is obvious. If he killed in a fit of rage I would imagine he would have slipped up and left evidence somewhere, right?

No, you are making a false assumption. The fact that he was never charged is not proof of his innocence, no more than someone who doesn't testify in their own defense is guilty. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence against Jule. The problem is that there doesn't appear to be enough to convict him beyond a reasonable doubt.

The UM story made Jule appear aloof and uncaring, which made me think he might have done it. Reading deeper about this case removed all doubt. The problem is getting a jury to convict based on the available evidence. To me, this is no different than Mark Nichols or cases like that. It's pretty clear what happened -- there just isn't enough direct proof to convict.

No, you are making a false assumption. The fact that he was never charged is not proof of his innocence, no more than someone who doesn't testify in their own defense is guilty. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence against Jule. The problem is that there doesn't appear to be enough to convict him beyond a reasonable doubt.

The UM story made Jule appear aloof and uncaring, which made me think he might have done it. Reading deeper about this case removed all doubt. The problem is getting a jury to convict based on the available evidence. To me, this is no different than Mark Nichols or cases like that. It's pretty clear what happened -- there just isn't enough direct proof to convict.
You nailed it. This is the reason why he's still free

To me, this is no different than Mark Nichols or cases like that.

This is exactly how I feel.

It's weird to me that a case like Christi Nichols can be universally agreed upon that Mark had something to do with it, but someone (IMO) equally (painfully, obviously) guilty as Jule Caylor still has doubters.