What do you guys think happened to him? I saw the segment and both families had been debating over it.

I think the police should have done ballistics testing on the rifle found in his truck, and if it matched the bullets taken from Latricia's body, I would say that Dub is a killer and is on the run somewhere where he blends in; possibly in some part of the country that is big in the trucking industry.

Do you think he is a killer? I think he is, because no one else seemed to have a motive to kill Latricia. His family says they haven't heard from him or given him any aid, and I believe them. But due to his connections in the trucking industry, he is probably living under an assumed name and changed his appearance while living off a new job.

Depends on whose blood it was?

1. If it's the son's then most likely the child was killed and Dub is a single fugitive. Though that leaves the question as to what he did with the boy's body?

2.If the blood is Dub's then most likely it was the result of defensive wounds from the murder of his wife. Then Dub probably has moved out of the country with his son. The son may even be aware of what happened and may even be fine with what his father did.

OT: what the hell kind of name is Dub anyway.:confused:

Depends on whose blood it was?

1. If it's the son's then most likely the child was killed and Dub is a single fugitive. Though that leaves the question as to what he did with the boy's body?

2.If the blood is Dub's then most likely it was the result of defensive wounds from the murder of his wife. Then Dub probably has moved out of the country with his son. The son may even be aware of what happened and may even be fine with what his father did.

OT: what the hell kind of name is Dub anyway.:confused:

I agree. This was another case I was kinda split on, but I think what one of the police investigators said was true. About how Dub was basically a good guy but blew up sometimes if he was drunk, when if he had time to think it over, he otherwise wouldn't have.

That's kind of a scary thought about Chance, but it's possible I guess. I do get the impression he might've been the source of some fighting between them - like when Latricia got on his case about the running water and Dub came to his defense (totally understandable, but he did overreact). Maybe the kid didn't like her because of her being the stepmom telling him what to do.

If Dub was the killer - I'd say the odds of Chance being with him or a victim himself is about 50/50.

Well I definitely think Dub killed his girlfriend. I'm not sure whether or not he would kill Chance. I tend to believe he took him on the run with him. The fact that he decided to take Chance with him instead of leaving him with his mother makes me think that Chance probably witnessed the murder and Dub didn't want him to tell what he knew. I do find it strange that they haven't been found in all these years. There's also the slight possibility that he killed Chance and himself soon after killing Patricia and their bodies just haven't been found.

I think that Chance might have pulled the trigger in this one, and then his dad took him and fled so he wouldn't be prosecuted.

I think that Chance might have pulled the trigger in this one, and then his dad took him and fled so he wouldn't be prosecuted.

That'd be one mean *ss kid if he did, but I've heard so much that nothing really shocks me about world anymore. If they are still alive, that could be a reason they haven't resurfaced. When did this case happen, like '93? He'd be a twentysomething now, so he's been old enough for years (if alive and he'd been kidnapped unwillingly by Dub) to have escaped or been on his own.

I agree Crystaldawn- one way or the other Dub probably is guilty (no one else would've had a motive). They probably did fight about Chance, like the segment portrayed, so that might've escalated things.

I think that Chance might have pulled the trigger in this one, and then his dad took him and fled so he wouldn't be prosecuted.

Chance was a minor, so it's not like he would be sent to the electric chair or anything.

Even Dub would know that nothing truly serious would happen to Chance if he was turned in. It would have been treated like an accident and their would be no conseuqences. Fleeing only complicates things.

The only reason to flee would be if Dub thought that he would be blamed for the death.


I do find it strange that they haven't been found in all these years.

Most likely they are hiding in Mexico.

Well in Texas, he would have only got lethal injection, no electric chair there since the 1970's. Texas was in fact the first state to adopt lethal injection as its method of execution. Personally, while I find it an interesting theory, I do not think Chance did this. I mean, it seems to me that Chance was not mad at her or angry at her, it was Dub that got jealous and angry at her particularly if he had a few drinks beforehand.

My guess, there was yet another fight. Dub 'lost it' and shot her 6 times. Chance clearly was there when this happened. He was either asleep in the house or he perhaps maybe even witnessed it. But I think Dub took Chance and went on the run. I imagine they are still on the run today. My guess as to why Chance has not come forward. To be honest, Dub has probably brainwashed him. This happens a lot more than most people think and he probably thinks his dad's girlfriend and even his own mother are the bad people in all of this not his dad.

am I the only one that thinks they were all murdered??

am I the only one that thinks they were all murdered??

You mean all three (Dub, his wife, and Chance) all killed by an outside party?

1. Why leave one body and hide the others two. Why choose that particular combination of Dub and Chance to take with you? What was so special about those two instead of the wife?

2. Why kill the wife first? Wouldn't it be more logical to kill Dub first?

3. What evidence is there of another person at the crime scene?

4. Why was their no sign of struggle?

5. Laetricia was shot six times by a .22 caliber REVOLVER. Six shots is the limit. If this suspect wanted to shoot Dub or Chance, he would need to have reloaded. Considering this guy had to kill two other people. Two bullets would have been enough to kill Laetricia, especially considering he most likely killed her while she was sleeping.

6. Why did the killer take Dubs truck, take out his checkbook and his wallet anbd bury the two bodies elsewhere.

just asking!

I think Dub did kill them, but I think he and the kid are dead too. If they are alive then I would think that maybe the son would be found somewhere, but then again there are the Maples that escaped for years and brainwashed the kids. Hopefully the truth will be found out.

If a third party did kill them maybe they killed the woman then Dub came home and they kidnapped him and the kid and killed them out in the woods somewhere.

If a third party did kill them maybe they killed the woman then Dub came home and they kidnapped him and the kid and killed them out in the woods somewhere.

Yeah I think that's actually pretty likely. It's been awhile since I watched the segment, but I just remembered Chance's grandparents got a call from a kid (who they thought might've been him) that seemed to be asking for help. Maybe it wasn't help from his dad, but from the kidnapper!

I think Dub might've been capable of violence if he were drunk/ticked off enough, but not of murder (then again maybe UM didn't tell us everything). It's probably true he was mostly a decent guy except when he blew up and acted like he otherwise wouldn't have.

5. Laetricia was shot six times by a .22 caliber REVOLVER. Six shots is the limit. If this suspect wanted to shoot Dub or Chance, he would need to have reloaded. Considering this guy had to kill two other people. Two bullets would have been enough to kill Laetricia, especially considering he most likely killed her while she was sleeping.


Great catch!!! I hadn't thought of that, but it makes the idea that an outside party was involved even more ludicrous. Frankly, I''m not sure I believe the grandparents about the "help help me" call; that sounds too much like a ploy, so either it was a hoax or a lie designed to shift the blame away from Dub and onto a kidnapper.

If he hasn't killed himself and Chance, I wouldn't be surprised it one of these days they turn up somewhere, perhaps still in the US.

Well I definitely think Dub killed his girlfriend. I'm not sure whether or not he would kill Chance. I tend to believe he took him on the run with him. The fact that he decided to take Chance with him instead of leaving him with his mother makes me think that Chance probably witnessed the murder and Dub didn't want him to tell what he knew. I do find it strange that they haven't been found in all these years. There's also the slight possibility that he killed Chance and himself soon after killing Patricia and their bodies just haven't been found.

I wonder if it was Chance that killed Latricia, whether purposely or not. It has been stated that he was a major brat. Perhaps he had a few issues as well. If so, Dub might have taken him on the run to protect him.

Hey everyone,
I just had a very quick question. The segment (as well as the Charley Project) both mention that Latricia had 2 children. I have always wondered...where were they? There is no indication in the story that they lived with Latricia, and there is no indication that they had any contact with Dub or Chance. I remember in the re-creation that you only saw Dub, Chance and Latricia...arguing in the kitchen, and then going out to a restaurant together. But what happened to her children? I can only imagine what they must have gone through after their mother died.

OT: what the hell kind of name is Dub anyway.:confused:


Dub Wackerhagen's real name is Lee Herman Wackerhagen, Jr., according to Charley Project. I would imagine that the "Dub" is short for "Dubya", the Texan pronounciation of "W", which is his last initial.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/wackerhagen_chance.html

Charli-Ann

Just recently re-watched this case for the first time in a while. My main thought on these domestic dispute turned murders are that if the person featured on the show as a possible suspect hasn't been found, located or heard from by now, chances are, they are dead or overseas somewhere.

My first reaction to this case was that Dub came home drunk one night, maybe after a fight with Letricia, and killed her while she slept. He then packed up his son and hit the road. I don't believe the grandparents account of getting a phone call from Chance saying "Help me!". I think that may be designed to put the focus more on a kidnapper than Dub. It was mentioned earlier than she was killed by 6 shots to the head of a 22 revolver. Six shots to the head is an overkill. Overkills are usually done by someone who knew the victim. In this case, no one could say a bad thing about Letricia and she had virtually no known enemies. Everything seems to point toward Dub.

very tough case, in my view it all depends on the blood, did they ever figure out whose it was??? i believe it is either Dub or someone who wanted the whole family dead, but my question is who? and why? if Dub did do it then it's easy to figure out the motive, but it is tough to answer where they are, how are they hiding for so long? Chance has to be in his 20s if he is alive.

Dub Wackerhagen's real name is Lee Herman Wackerhagen, Jr., according to Charley Project. I would imagine that the "Dub" is short for "Dubya", the Texan pronounciation of "W", which is his last initial.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/wackerhagen_chance.html

Charli-Ann

The Charley Project is a great website.

My take on this case is that they had another domestic dispute and Dub killed her and took his boy Chance with him and ran. One question remains though how they have remained in hiding for so many years?

One question remains though how they have remained in hiding for so many years?

Not to get fustrated hear or insult anyone..

But why do so many people on this forum find it incomprehensible that someone could hide out from the police indefinitely?:rolleyes:

Does everyone think that every single person that goes on the lam get's captured within a few years?:confused: :confused: :confused:

Not to get fustrated hear or insult anyone..

But why do so many people on this forum find it incomprehensible that someone could hide out from the police indefinitely?:rolleyes:

Does everyone think that every single person that goes on the lam get's captured within a few years?:confused: :confused: :confused:

I hear you, I mean look at all the people on the run from the law that have been on UM and up to now haven't been captured. Im sure that list is quite large.

Dub would be easier to spot than Chance. Dub probably hasn't aged as much as Chance in the 20 years(about). Dub was about 6'5 and 260 pounds. It wouldn't be exactly like finding a needle in a hay stack. But Chance going from a little boy to 20 something when there hasn't been a confirmed sighting. We don't know how exactly he would appear today. And Dub did do this because if Chance were to do this they would have explained the circumstance relatively soon not 20 years later.

I don't really know why, but this case has always bugged me.

I think the most puzzling aspect of the mystery is Chance and his whereabouts. He was nine years old when he was abducted in 1993. He'd be 26 years old now!

If indeed this case is what it appears, Dub shot Larticia in a fit of rage and fled with Chance, It seems odd that Chance, even into his adulthood he would continue to go along with his father's life on the run by staying in hiding and not make any effort to contact his family and let them at least know he is alive. He was old enough to remember them. He is not wanted for any crime. You would think surely he would have surfaced by now if he was alive.

When I first saw the story and saw Dub's family members trying to say something happened to all three of them, I thought it might be wishful thinking on their part because they didn't want to believe Dub would do something like that.

But when you add it up, there are things that point to the possibility that maybe all three were murdered, and someone hid Dub's body because that would be the perfect cover up and make it look like he did it. The bloodstains in the truck that didn't belong to Letricia were the biggest thing.

I could envision a secnario where someone might have wanted to kill them. Suppose another man was interested in Letricia, someone she had confided in about her problems with Dub, and someone who knew about the big fight they had the night before and got their hopes up they might break up and give him a chance. But they were seen in that restauraunt the night before the murder so they must have worked things out, well this other guy lost it out of dissapointment and frustration and murdered them. People talk about how it would have been difficult to take a 250 pound body, and leave Letricia behind, but it would also have been the perfect cover up to make it look like Dub did it. Dub might have been transported in his own truck, explaining the bloodstains.

Again, just sheer speculation and hypotheticals.

I think the most puzzling aspect of the mystery is Chance and his whereabouts. He was nine years old when he was abducted in 1993. He'd be 26 years old now!

If indeed this case is what it appears, Dub shot Larticia in a fit of rage and fled with Chance, It seems odd that Chance, even into his adulthood he would continue to go along with his father's life on the run by staying in hiding and not make any effort to contact his family and let them at least know he is alive. He was old enough to remember them. He is not wanted for any crime. You would think surely he would have surfaced by now if he was alive.

1. Chance may agree with his fathers action and may want to keep his father out of jail.

2. Who does he have to come home to, really? Other than grandparents, Chance probably has more connections in his new life than his old life. There probably are no real people to come back to.

3. Other than to satisfy an unsolved mystery...is there really any incentive for Chance to come forward?

I could envision a secnario where someone might have wanted to kill them. Suppose another man was interested in Letricia, someone she had confided in about her problems with Dub, and someone who knew about the big fight they had the night before and got their hopes up they might break up and give him a chance. But they were seen in that restauraunt the night before the murder so they must have worked things out, well this other guy lost it out of dissapointment and frustration and murdered them. People talk about how it would have been difficult to take a 250 pound body, and leave Letricia behind, but it would also have been the perfect cover up to make it look like Dub did it. Dub might have been transported in his own truck, explaining the bloodstains.


1. Why this other man use all six of his shots to kill Laetricia, when he just needed 2 or 3?

Doesn;t that seem foolish considering he needs to kill a 250 pound Dub with the same gun?

Considering that it would a planned murder, I would think he would be a little more conservative of his bullets, don;t you?

2. Was there a sign of a break-in?How did he get into the house? If Laetrica let the killer in, why was she sleeping in the bed while he was up and about?

1. Chance may agree with his fathers action and may want to keep his father out of jail.

2. Who does he have to come home to, really? Other than grandparents, Chance probably has more connections in his new life than his old life. There probably are no real people to come back to.

3. Other than to satisfy an unsolved mystery...is there really any incentive for Chance to come forward?

lol, Well, you may well be right. But you certainly don't give the young man much credit for character and it wouldn't say much for the man he has grown into if you think he was not only ok with his Dad blowing his girlfriend away with six bullets to the head, but also allowing his family to continue to suffer not knowing what happened to him. But it could very well be so.

And the part about him having more connections in his new life is certainly plausible. But doesn't he still have a Mom to?

And its not like he'd have to come home, all he'd have to do is make a call or write a letter letting them know he is alive.

But again, who knows?

I'm still inclined to think the truth about this case will come out someday.

1. Why this other man use all six of his shots to kill Laetricia, when he just needed 2 or 3?

Doesn;t that seem foolish considering he needs to kill a 250 pound Dub with the same gun?

Considering that it would a planned murder, I would think he would be a little more conservative of his bullets, don;t you?

2. Was there a sign of a break-in?How did he get into the house? If Laetrica let the killer in, why was she sleeping in the bed while he was up and about?

And you don't think its possible that a killer might bring two weapons to a crime scene? Or might have had time to reload?

As for the forced entry, suppose the killer showed up after Letricia went to bed and Dub was still awake, he lured Dub outside somehow. And he shoots him. If Dub was going outside to investigate a noise or something than clearly he wouldn't have locked the door. So Dub is dead, the door is unlocked, and clearly the killer can get in without breaking in, so he reloads the pistol and goes in and finishes Letricia. Of course what he would have done with Chance whether he killed him to or took him is anybody's guess

And generally .22 caliber pistols don't make a lot of noise so its possible to shoot one off without waking someone up.

And the bloodstains in Dub's truck that didn't belong to Letricia still haven't been explained.

Like I said, anything is possible. Its all speculation. You may very well be right. But anything is possible.

I wonder if it was Chance that killed Latricia, whether purposely or not. It has been stated that he was a major brat. Perhaps he had a few issues as well. If so, Dub might have taken him on the run to protect him.

If a little kid had shot Letricia in bed, the trajectory of the bullets would probably reveal it. A really short person gunning down someone lying in bed would probably give a much closer to horizontal bullet trajectory than a a full height adult. So I'm sure it was looked into. Unless of course th gunman was kneeling on one knee or fired from much further away than you would think.

I don't know how big a kid Chance was. But at nine years old it could have been much more than four, four and a half feet or so. Someone that short firing a gun can usually be deduced by bullet trajectory.

Its hard to imagine anine year old kid pumping six bullets into someone's head, there is a big jump from being a brat to being a killer.

And you don't think its possible that a killer might bring two weapons to a crime scene? Or might have had time to reload?

1. Why does he need two guns?

2. If he reloaded, wouldn;t the empty casings be found at the scene from the emptying of first rounds? :confused:

3. Why was he carrying extra bullets in the first place? This is a .22 not an automatic. It's not the easy clip and load action. If he carried extra rounds it almost assumes that he thought he had to kill more than one person that day...which would mean the crime was premeditated.

Contrary to popular belief, a lot of gun murders involve the killer not carrying extra bullets. Usually only cops, enforcers, body guards, bank robbers and soldiers think about extra ammunition. Most crimes of passion involve the killer carrying the gun without even thinking about carrying extra bullets.

If a little kid had shot Letricia in bed, the trajectory of the bullets would probably reveal it. A really short person gunning down someone lying in bed would probably give a much closer to horizontal bullet trajectory than a a full height adult.

Might not be as simple as that.

Its hard to imagine anine year old kid pumping six bullets into someone's head, there is a big jump from being a brat to being a killer.

Especially with the recoil.

lol, Well, you may well be right. But you certainly don't give the young man much credit for character and it wouldn't say much for the man he has grown into if you think he was not only ok with his Dad blowing his girlfriend away with six bullets to the head, but also allowing his family to continue to suffer not knowing what happened to him. But it could very well be so.

We all would like to believe that people would do the right thing in situations, but in reality it's not always that easy.



1. Your assuming that it's registered in his mind that his father killed Laetricia. All Chance may have known that his father and him left and moved suddenly that day. He honestly may not even know that Laetricia is dead. Not everyone is as up to speed on UM cases as we are.

2. As a child, he really has no choice in the matter since he needs his father to survive.
As an adult, considering he's had so much time to live with the truth.

3. It;'s the old moral/legal argument over if you were a father and your son committed a murder, would you turn him in. I think you would find a lot more fathers would protect their sons rather than turn them in. Blood is thicker than water.

4. If Dub is living under a different name, there are a whole slew of issues to consider. First of consider if you have a life insurance policy under his alias. if Chance announced he was Chance Wackerhagen, there is an excuse an insurance company could use to void the police. One of the many legal and financial issues to consider if Chance is living under an alias.

5. If Dub killed his mother, I could understand why Chance would come forward...but Dub killed his girlfriend. There's no relation between Chance and Laetricia. I don't think Chance would have as much a personal interest in avenging his Leatricia';s death over putting his father in jail.

6. I would hope Chance would be a nice law abiding citizen, but he could also be a meth dealer with a criminal record. Your making the assumption that Chance is still a nice little boy and grew to a decent person.

Personally, I concur with a lot of people that Dub most likely killed Latricia and fled with Chance. There's one thing that is rather puzzling about this case. If Dub did flee, how the heck has he been able to evade capture considering his height of 6'4/6'5? A person of that stature definitely stands out in a crowd. If he was 5'11', it'd be a whole different story.

Personally, I concur with a lot of people that Dub most likely killed Latricia and fled with Chance. There's one thing that is rather puzzling about this case. If Dub did flee, how the heck has he been able to evade capture considering his height of 6'4/6'5? A person of that stature definitely stands out in a crowd. If he was 5'11', it'd be a whole different story.

Something just doesn't feel right, its one of those cases that seems almost to open and shut.

I mean Dub may very well have done it, but still no one has ever explained the bloodstains in his truck which were proven not to belong to Letricia. Someone suggested that he might have been injured somehow in a struggle, but if he pumped six bullets into her while she was in bed, there wouldn't have been a struggle that would have resulted in Dub losing blood.

I mean the two were known to have fights, but the sighting of them in the restaurant acting like everything was fine indicates they were prone to have loud spats like that and make up, there is a big jump from that to Dub suddenly putting six bullets in her and dropping off the face of the Earth.

From what I saw I could envision him maybe flying off the handle and killing her after a fight in a oh **** what have I done lets get the hell out of here Chance type of situation, but Letricia if she was shot in her sleep that doesn't seem to fit to me. I find it odd she would go to sleep or even just in bed with Dub in the house after they had a fight which was so bad it made him mad enough to want to pump six bullets in her. There would have to have been enough time for premeditation in a situation like that.

The combination of the total lack of sightings of Dub who would stand out in a crowd, the bloodstains in his truck not belonging to Letricia, and the manner in which Letricia was murdered lead me to think something is not quite kosher with the theory that he killed her and kind of leans towards Dub's family being possibly right about he and Chance meeting with foul play as well.

I thought I read somewhere that there were sightings of Chance after he dissapeared, but not of Dub. Which kind of supports that is well.

I always got the sense that the alleged phone call from Chance that his grandparents received was a hoax though, just a feeling.

Not to get fustrated hear or insult anyone..

But why do so many people on this forum find it incomprehensible that someone could hide out from the police indefinitely?:rolleyes:

Does everyone think that every single person that goes on the lam get's captured within a few years?:confused: :confused: :confused:

While I'm no great fan of the police, I do know that unless you are very lucky or very intelligent, it's very difficult to remain hidden from them without a substantial amount of money or leaving the United States.
Why?
At the time that this occurred, it was still possible to have multiple drivers licenses in various states. However especially since 9/11, this is almost impossible. And if Mr. Wackerhagen were driving truck for anybody he would have to have a commercial drivers license.

It's highly unlikely, that in the interim period of time Mr. Wackerhagen could've gone any length of time without receiving a ticket or being arrested. both of which could possibly lead to his discovery.

Traveling with his son would have also complicated things. It would be very difficult to keep the child out of school and while a single man may not attract that much attention, a single man traveling with a young child would have. Additionally, I have a hard time believing that the child would have gone so long without contacting his mother or at least wanting to contact his mother and that caught having caused a problem.

Having just seen the segment, my thought on this is that Mr. Wackerhagen killed his girlfriend and fled the scene with his son. At some point later, Mr. Wackerhagen then been killed his son and then himself. Their bodies have just never been found.
Since the police don't even hint at Mr. Wackerhagen being involved in any type of criminal activity, nor having any type of intelligence training, it's highly unlikely that he would have the necessary skills to evade detection for this length of time, much less the funding to do so.

It's highly unlikely, that in the interim period of time Mr. Wackerhagen could've gone any length of time without receiving a ticket or being arrested. both of which could possibly lead to his discovery.

That is ultimately what has bothered me about the whole thing. I realize the police are not going to catch every single fugitive out there, but there's a difference between a William Bradford Bishop or Whitey Bulger being able to hide out for so long than a simple trucker like Dub Wackerhagen.

While Dub had no criminal record, he was known for having a violent temper, so if he did commit the murder, one has to assume it was a crime of passion. It just seems that someone with such a lack of self-control and rage issues would inevitably do SOMETHING to get themselves noticed or in trouble with the law again, even something as simple as a speeding ticket or getting arrested for a bar fight.

This is why I lean towards him being killed by someone else who committed the murder or him committing suicide and no one ever finding the body. The complication, of course, is Chance as I'm not entirely sure Dub would be capable of killing him too. If Dub chose to take his own life, he knew that there would be other people who would take care of his son.

That is ultimately what has bothered me about the whole thing. I realize the police are not going to catch every single fugitive out there, but there's a difference between a William Bradford Bishop or Whitey Bulger being able to hide out for so long than a simple trucker like Dub Wackerhagen.

While Dub had no criminal record, he was known for having a violent temper, so if he did commit the murder, one has to assume it was a crime of passion. It just seems that someone with such a lack of self-control and rage issues would inevitably do SOMETHING to get themselves noticed or in trouble with the law again, even something as simple as a speeding ticket or getting arrested for a bar fight.

This is why I lean towards him being killed by someone else who committed the murder or him committing suicide and no one ever finding the body. The complication, of course, is Chance as I'm not entirely sure Dub would be capable of killing him too. If Dub chose to take his own life, he knew that there would be other people who would take care of his son.

I agree. Whitey Bulger is a career criminal with access to at least $10 million in the know how and ability to gain even more. As far as Bradford Bishop, if he is still alive, he has extensive fluency in multiple languages and had traveled widely prior to his disappearance. So both of those men were suited to a life as a fugitive.

Dub Wackerhagen drove a truck and apparently had so few financial resources that he was living in his girlfriend's house. That isn't the type of person that could generally be expected to have survived as a fugitive for this length of time.

By my way of thinking, the kid's the real wildcard.A single woman on the run with a child might attract some attention, but could easily explain it away by saying she was leaving an abusive relationship/marriage. In Wackerhagen's case, this wouldn't have worked.

He would have to avoid living in too small a town; living next door to a teacher, police officer, social worker or anyone that was a little too nosy.he would also be unable to take his son on the road with him and not have been questioned at least once about why the child wasn't in school.

Finally, he would have to find a position that both paid him cash and paid enough to feed and clothe himself and his son. There are very few "under the table" jobs that would do that and also be "relatively legal."I say relatively legal because other types of "cash only" work would bring you to the attention of law enforcement eventually, especially if a child was involved.

This is one case I really cannot make my mind up on. On the one hand we have a woman who was shot six times in the head (almost certainly a crime of passion), and her boyfriend and his son have turned up missing. It would seem like Dub is the logical suspect for the simlpe fact that Chance is also missing. Who else would have a motive to kill Latricia? There were several eyewitness accounts of Dub and Latricia fighting constantly, maybe one night he was just pushed to the edge and killed her. And why would this person shoot Latricia six times and leave her body? Whoever killed her obviously wanted her dead and for her to be found...so why move Dub's body and either abduct Chance or kill him as well? If Latricia was the target, why not wait for a better opportunity to kill her when she was alone? On the other hand, Dub and Chance may very well be victims. Why else would Dub abandon his truck, wallet, and check book? If he planned on creating a new identity there would be some evidence that he was attempting to obtain fake id's, etc. well before Latricia was murdered. And how could a truck driver be on the run that long without getting caught? He was easy to spot in a crowd with his height, weight, and stylin' mustache, why have there been no sightings?

That means either all three were killed by an unknown killer/s, Dub killed Latricia and fled (possibly to another country) with Chance, Dub killed Latricia, then shortly after killed Chance and then himself, or Dub killed Latricia and Chance and is living on the lam by himself. I guess I'm among the minority that thinks the phone call to Chance's grandparents was real, and called by Chance himself. Perhaps Chance witnessed what his father did, was not only traumatized by that but also being taken away from his mother and that led to him hating/resenting his father. Maybe the blood found in Dub's truck was from an altercation between the two of them. The phone call may have been a last ditch effort from Chance to get away from his father...it's possible that Dub killed him shortly after they both disappeared, and it would make sense if Chance posed a threat to come forward and expose Dub. If Dub killed Chance shortly after fleeing and them himself why haven't either of their remains been found? I'm leaning towards both of them are alive and well living under assumed identities. I don't think Chance knows anything about his father murdering Latricia and I think it's likely that he has "brainwashed" him.

This is one case I really cannot make my mind up on. On the one hand we have a woman who was shot six times in the head (almost certainly a crime of passion), and her boyfriend and his son have turned up missing. It would seem like Dub is the logical suspect for the simlpe fact that Chance is also missing. Who else would have a motive to kill Latricia? There were several eyewitness accounts of Dub and Latricia fighting constantly, maybe one night he was just pushed to the edge and killed her. And why would this person shoot Latricia six times and leave her body? Whoever killed her obviously wanted her dead and for her to be found...so why move Dub's body and either abduct Chance or kill him as well? If Latricia was the target, why not wait for a better opportunity to kill her when she was alone? On the other hand, Dub and Chance may very well be victims. Why else would Dub abandon his truck, wallet, and check book? If he planned on creating a new identity there would be some evidence that he was attempting to obtain fake id's, etc. well before Latricia was murdered. And how could a truck driver be on the run that long without getting caught? He was easy to spot in a crowd with his height, weight, and stylin' mustache, why have there been no sightings?

That means either all three were killed by an unknown killer/s, Dub killed Latricia and fled (possibly to another country) with Chance, Dub killed Latricia, then shortly after killed Chance and then himself, or Dub killed Latricia and Chance and is living on the lam by himself. I guess I'm among the minority that thinks the phone call to Chance's grandparents was real, and called by Chance himself. Perhaps Chance witnessed what his father did, was not only traumatized by that but also being taken away from his mother and that led to him hating/resenting his father. Maybe the blood found in Dub's truck was from an altercation between the two of them. The phone call may have been a last ditch effort from Chance to get away from his father...it's possible that Dub killed him shortly after they both disappeared, and it would make sense if Chance posed a threat to come forward and expose Dub. If Dub killed Chance shortly after fleeing and them himself why haven't either of their remains been found? I'm leaning towards both of them are alive and well living under assumed identities. I don't think Chance knows anything about his father murdering Latricia and I think it's likely that he has "brainwashed" him.

1) The lack of any other evidence of violence in the home almost seals the deal. If there were no signs of a struggle involving Chance or Dub, then one or the other had to have committed this crime.

2) I can see Dub leaving behind his personal information and is checkbook.Here's why:at that time it was common for truck drivers to have multiple drivers licenses from various states. he could have easily had as many as six different licenses and only left his Texas license in the wallet.

Since things aren't is computerized as they are today, he could easily going into a Department of Motor Vehicles office in another state and renew the license,he may have had from that state. unless the authorities knew in which state to look or checked all 50 states (as well as US territories) there would be little way to track him.

3) Taking the child with him, to may shows that Dub's mental state was either at a breaking point or completely gone. Had he simply dropped the child off at his parents or the child's mother's house, he would actually have found it easier to exist as a fugitive.

4) the remains may not of been found due to the potential misdirection Dub may have been trying. It may have driven his truck to Austin to throw off "the scent"and then either had a friend meet him or hitched a ride with another trucker to a third location.

If he decided to harm himself and his son there, it's unlikely that without knowing what and where that location was,that it would be easy to locate there remains.

5) No one asked this on the show and I haven't seen anyone asked this on this thread, but who owned the 22 caliber revolver that fired the shots? Dub? Latricia? Most criminals are not going to break into your home and then arm themselves when they get there.

Anyone else consider the possibility that this whole thing may have started because Dub got angry with Chance and hit him so hard that he accidentally killed him? He then deliberately shoots Latricia after she threatens to go to the police and then disposes of Chance's body before disappearing. It's entirely possible that the blood in the truck that did not belong to Latricia belonged to Chance.

While it may seem weird that he would dispose of Chance's body, but leave Latricia's behind, it would definitely make it easier for him to go on the run if no one knew Chance was dead. People would be on the lookout for a man and a kid and without Chance accompanying him, it would be easier for him to slip by unnoticed. Plus, if Dub was officially declared a child murderer who had killed his own son, there probably would have been a much larger manhunt for him than there was. He could have very easily committed suicide somewhere, but didn't want to be remembered by his family as a child killer, so he made sure to hide Chance's body before he killed himself. If Chance's body was ever found, no one could ever know for sure that Dub did it.

I think this theory all depends on if Dub ever had a history of abusing Chance, which was never mentioned during the UM segment. He did have a violent temper, but he may have the drawn the line over striking his own child. Dub's family was so sure of his innocence that if he ever had beaten Chance before, they may have chosen not to reveal that information.

Anyone else consider the possibility that this whole thing may have started because Dub got angry with Chance and hit him so hard that he accidentally killed him? He then deliberately shoots Latricia after she threatens to go to the police and then disposes of Chance's body before disappearing. It's entirely possible that the blood in the truck that did not belong to Latricia belonged to Chance.

While it may seem weird that he would dispose of Chance's body, but leave Latricia's behind, it would definitely make it easier for him to go on the run if no one knew Chance was dead. People would be on the lookout for a man and a kid and without Chance accompanying him, it would be easier for him to slip by unnoticed. Plus, if Dub was officially declared a child murderer who had killed his own son, there probably would have been a much larger manhunt for him than there was. He could have very easily committed suicide somewhere, but didn't want to be remembered by his family as a child killer, so he made sure to hide Chance's body before he killed himself. If Chance's body was ever found, no one could ever know for sure that Dub did it.

I think this theory all depends on if Dub ever had a history of abusing Chance, which was never mentioned during the UM segment. He did have a violent temper, but he may have the drawn the line over striking his own child. Dub's family was so sure of his innocence that if he ever had beaten Chance before, they may have chosen not to reveal that information.

It's certainly possible that things went down like that. The only thing that I can't see is it the hit Chance hard enough to injure or kill him, wouldn't there be blood inside the house besides Latricia's? And signs of a struggle?

The police aren't even saying that the bedroom was in disarray, which likely means that Dub shot Latricia while she was sleeping.

And from what I got from that segment, Dub's ex-wife had no lost love for him and probably would have mentioned it if dub was abusive to her child as well as her. His family certainly would have wanted to paint him as being a nice guy; there'd be no reason for his ex-wife to do the same.

It is rather astonishing that after all this time Dub and his son have never been found.

Of coure, back in 1991, changing an identity was a much easier feat than it is today. All one needed to do was use public records and perhaps newspapers to find the name of someone, preferably a small child, who was dead, but who was born around the year oneself was born. Then, in most states, you could write the state and request a copy of the "birth certificate," so long as you could provide basic information like your name, age, and year of birth. Once armed with the birth certificate, you could then go ahead and get the social securtity card with the number attached to that person. Because birth and death records were not cross-referenced, it used to be astonishingly easy to get the basic documentation from a deceased person, and simply assume that person's identity. Once you had that SS card, all other things were possible.

This information was readily available if you knew where to look for it even back then, so I doubt Dub would have had all that hard a time acquiring new identities for himself and his son.

But acquiring new identities, and ASSUMING them - especially getting his son to assume one - are two different things. I am certain Dub could have established a life elsewhere, perhaps in Canada, with little trouble, if he were only looking out for himself. It gets a lot trickier with a son in tow, who is 9 and is old enough to remember and know things about his mother, etc.

Because of this, I wonder if Dub didn't do the truly unthinkable and kill his son - accounting for the blood in his truck - and then take off himself. A hillbilly William Bradford Bishop, if you will.

I never really thought about Dub committing suicide after his possible murder of Letricia, but its possble. And it would definitely explain the bloodstains in his truck.

Bottom line is, the bloodstains not belonging to Letricia mean someone else was hurt besides her.

However, it seem hard to believe Dub would kill Chance, because supposedly the reason for most of his fights with Letricia were defending him.

I'm sure from everything I can gather Dub had a bad temper, but it never really says he was violent, I jst got the impression he was like a big baby in a lot of ways, not really a murdered. But who knows?

Just several things IMO that don't fit Dub simply blowing her away and dropping off the face of the Earth all of the sudden. It could have happened......... but something just has never felt right.

I never really thought about Dub committing suicide after his possible murder of Letricia, but its possble. And it would definitely explain the bloodstains in his truck.

Bottom line is, the bloodstains not belonging to Letricia mean someone else was hurt besides her.

However, it seem hard to believe Dub would kill Chance, because supposedly the reason for most of his fights with Letricia were defending him.

I'm sure from everything I can gather Dub had a bad temper, but it never really says he was violent, I jst got the impression he was like a big baby in a lot of ways, not really a murdered. But who knows?

Just several things IMO that don't fit Dub simply blowing her away and dropping off the face of the Earth all of the sudden. It could have happened......... but something just has never felt right.

If the bloodstains in the car are from Dub killing himself, where's Chance and where's the body? I think it's possible that Dub did disappear for awhile and fearing that Chance was a hindrance to him being caught, Dub killed Chance...then eventually killed himself. I agree with earlier posts that say a trucker wouldn't have the means to survive that long without being caught.

If the bloodstains in the car are from Dub killing himself, where's Chance and where's the body? I think it's possible that Dub did disappear for awhile and fearing that Chance was a hindrance to him being caught, Dub killed Chance...then eventually killed himself. I agree with earlier posts that say a trucker wouldn't have the means to survive that long without being caught.

there is always the possibility Dub's family may be helping him hide. They claimed on the show they had heard nothing from him, but they may not be telling the truth. Even if they did not know his whereabouts at the time of the show, its entirely possible he could have contacted them after the show heired. He may have told them he didn't kill Letricia and they agreed to help him hide, fearing that he would be convicted if he was caught.

there is always the possibility Dub's family may be helping him hide. They claimed on the show they had heard nothing from him, but they may not be telling the truth. Even if they did not know his whereabouts at the time of the show, its entirely possible he could have contacted them after the show heired. He may have told them he didn't kill Letricia and they agreed to help him hide, fearing that he would be convicted if he was caught.

Hmm...that begs several questions doesn't it?

1) How would they financially be able to help Mr. Wackerhagen hide for the length of time that they have? They didn't appear to be wealthy people and it's very difficult to hide cash transfers for any length of time unless you are very familiar w/ money laundering and/or espionage.

2) If they were able to do it (hide him) how have they done so w/o making many (if any) mistakes during that time leading to his discovery?

3) Assuming that the Wackerhagen family aren't amoral sociopaths (which would make them unlikely to help even family members for long) wouldn't the passage of time and their consciouses have made it likely that one would have "spilled the beans" by now?

4) It was almost two years after the crime was committed that it was aired on UM. Wouldn't he have contacted them sooner?

Dub is, of course, the obvious suspect and the evidence at the crime scene tends to support a theory that he did it - the lack of B&E, the overkill, the history of the relationship.

That said, it's not a complete slam-dunk, only insofar as there are some questions that the segment doesn't answer - whose gun was it, whose blood was it?

If Dub did it, I don't think it would have been too hard for him to skip out and find a new identity at the time - especially if he had the vast connections in the trucking industry he was said to have; sure, he's a big guy, but that by itself isn't that uncommon, and simply doing things like growing a beard and losing or gaining some weight could have dramatically altered his appearance. It's possible he killed Chance too - he would seem to be an unnecessary burden for a fugitive on the run. I don't discount the idea that his family did help him - not regularly, perhaps, but they certainly could have wired him money once or twice.

If he is still alive, the issue of his on-going transport from Austin needs to be addressed - could another trucker have helped him after he abandoned his car?

Dub is, of course, the obvious suspect and the evidence at the crime scene tends to support a theory that he did it - the lack of B&E, the overkill, the history of the relationship.

That said, it's not a complete slam-dunk, only insofar as there are some questions that the segment doesn't answer - whose gun was it, whose blood was it?

If Dub did it, I don't think it would have been too hard for him to skip out and find a new identity at the time - especially if he had the vast connections in the trucking industry he was said to have; sure, he's a big guy, but that by itself isn't that uncommon, and simply doing things like growing a beard and losing or gaining some weight could have dramatically altered his appearance. It's possible he killed Chance too - he would seem to be an unnecessary burden for a fugitive on the run. I don't discount the idea that his family did help him - not regularly, perhaps, but they certainly could have wired him money once or twice.

If he is still alive, the issue of his on-going transport from Austin needs to be addressed - could another trucker have helped him after he abandoned his car?

I would have to believe that his family helping him (if they are or were) would have definitely been contingent on NOTHING happening or having happened to Chance.
His harming Letricia wouldn't have mattered as much as him harming his own son would have.

I don't think that they could forgive that.

Dub is, of course, the obvious suspect and the evidence at the crime scene tends to support a theory that he did it - the lack of B&E, the overkill, the history of the relationship.

That said, it's not a complete slam-dunk, only insofar as there are some questions that the segment doesn't answer - whose gun was it, whose blood was it?

If Dub did it, I don't think it would have been too hard for him to skip out and find a new identity at the time - especially if he had the vast connections in the trucking industry he was said to have; sure, he's a big guy, but that by itself isn't that uncommon, and simply doing things like growing a beard and losing or gaining some weight could have dramatically altered his appearance. It's possible he killed Chance too - he would seem to be an unnecessary burden for a fugitive on the run. I don't discount the idea that his family did help him - not regularly, perhaps, but they certainly could have wired him money once or twice.

If he is still alive, the issue of his on-going transport from Austin needs to be addressed - could another trucker have helped him after he abandoned his car?

I believe Dub initially had some help, perhaps from trucker friends, but I just don't see how it's possible for him to be on the lam still to this day without someone coming forward. That's why I kind of lead to the scenario in which he killed Chance (unfortunately) and then himself.

Remember the Maples who kidnapped their own grandchildren. They got new identities and successfully hid out for 20 years.

There are quite a few cases where one parent has taken their kids and went undetected for years. One was in the news recently. A young lady went to get her birth certificate or some other legal document and discovered that she was a missing person whose mother had taken off with her and changed their IDs.

Remember the Maples who kidnapped their own grandchildren. They got new identities and successfully hid out for 20 years.

There are quite a few cases where one parent has taken their kids and went undetected for years. One was in the news recently. A young lady went to get her birth certificate or some other legal document and discovered that she was a missing person whose mother had taken off with her and changed their IDs.

Very different situation:

1) Two people working together toward a common goal.
2) They only kidnapped the children;they hadn't killed another person.
3) They were obviously smarter than Dub Wackerhagen appeared (appears) to have been.
4) Since 9/11, the shenanigans that people used to pull off in the past (false identities,working off the books,etc) are actually more difficult.
5) They had access to ready cash if I remember the situation correctly. Wackerhagen couldn't even afford his own place to live.

1) Two people working together toward a common goal.

In the Wackerhagen case, there was only one person having to hide out with one kid. IMO, that's easier than trying to hide 4 people, including 2 kidnapped children. I think Dub has a better chance of staying undetected than the Maples did.


2) They only kidnapped the children;they hadn't killed another person.

But they had still committed a crime and officials were looking for them, the same as they were looking for Dub and Chase.


3) They were obviously smarter than Dub Wackerhagen appeared (appears) to have been.

I don't know how clever Dub was. I think the Maples were better educated and possibly more intelligent than Dub.


4) Since 9/11, the shenanigans that people used to pull off in the past (false identities,working off the books,etc) are actually more difficult.

Dub and Chance went missing in 1993. If they obtained new identities before any policies related to 9/11 went into effect, they wouldn't be scrutinized. It's the same as the Maples (and the other case I mentioned), who all had new IDs before 9/11. As far as "working off the books", I know several people who've been doing that since 9/11. IMO, the difficulty of finding a job that pays under the table hasn't been too hampered by any 9/11 related policies, especially with blue collar jobs like Dub would be expected to be doing.


5) They had access to ready cash if I remember the situation correctly. Wackerhagen couldn't even afford his own place to live.

I don't know the finances of the people in either situation. The Maples lived much better lifestyles than Dub did, but it doesn't mean that Dub and Chance couldn't live off the radar in less expensive accomodations than the Maples.

1) Two people working together toward a common goal.

In the Wackerhagen case, there was only one person having to hide out with one kid. IMO, that's easier than trying to hide 4 people, including 2 kidnapped children. I think Dub has a better chance of staying undetected than the Maples did.


2) They only kidnapped the children;they hadn't killed another person.

But they had still committed a crime and officials were looking for them, the same as they were looking for Dub and Chase.


3) They were obviously smarter than Dub Wackerhagen appeared (appears) to have been.

I don't know how clever Dub was. I think the Maples were better educated and possibly more intelligent than Dub.


4) Since 9/11, the shenanigans that people used to pull off in the past (false identities,working off the books,etc) are actually more difficult.

Dub and Chance went missing in 1993. If they obtained new identities before any policies related to 9/11 went into effect, they wouldn't be scrutinized. It's the same as the Maples (and the other case I mentioned), who all had new IDs before 9/11. As far as "working off the books", I know several people who've been doing that since 9/11. IMO, the difficulty of finding a job that pays under the table hasn't been too hampered by any 9/11 related policies, especially with blue collar jobs like Dub would be expected to be doing.


5) They had access to ready cash if I remember the situation correctly. Wackerhagen couldn't even afford his own place to live.

I don't know the finances of the people in either situation. The Maples lived much better lifestyles than Dub did, but it doesn't mean that Dub and Chance couldn't live off the radar in less expensive accomodations than the Maples.

We'll have to agree to disagree on certain things:

1) Actually it would be easier for two older people that have the love and trust of a the children they are hiding than it would be to hide a kid turning into a teenager who (according to some sources) was already difficult.

2) Non-stranger abduction is, IMHO, one of the most mishandled of any major crimes committed. The police seem to give it a lower priority and there a few cases that were "solved" by outstanding police work.

Murder on the other is the one crime that needs to be solved as few people that kill wouldn't kill again if the opportunity presents itself.

3) I don't know Dub Wackerhagen personally, but I do know that he:
a) Continued in a relationship that went sour after only a few months.
b) Murdered his girlfriend and made no real effort to throw suspicion off of himself.
c) Was never mentioned by either family nor his ex-wife as being "smart" nor clever.
d) Killed his girlfriend when the most obvious solution would be to leave her and move on w/ his life.

None of which are signs of intelligence or good judgment.

4) Getting false ID wasn't too hard BEFORE 9/11,but since 9/11 there have been a number of arrests of people who's names they are using have been matched to either false SSN's, existing SSN's or whose personal information matches that of a deceased person. It's also very difficult to remain hidden w/ false ID.

And it's very difficult to obtain under-the table employment that pays more than a minimal amount unless that work involves something illegal, which means that an arrest or two is in the cards. Most people working off the books average between $10-15k a year w/ most making less than that. Had Dub had a history of performing that type of work , I could see him performing it.

But after having made far more driving a truck I don't see him easily adjusting to making far less. Plus he has a kid w/ him and that costs more than being alone.

Given his violent temper, his lack of financial resources, his obviously poor judgment, the fact that LE is hunting for him and the lack of any evidence that he knew how to live "off the radar", I find it difficult to believe that Dub Wackerhagen or unfortunately his son, are still alive.

1) Two people working together toward a common goal.

In the Wackerhagen case, there was only one person having to hide out with one kid. IMO, that's easier than trying to hide 4 people, including 2 kidnapped children. I think Dub has a better chance of staying undetected than the Maples did.


2) They only kidnapped the children;they hadn't killed another person.

But they had still committed a crime and officials were looking for them, the same as they were looking for Dub and Chase.


3) They were obviously smarter than Dub Wackerhagen appeared (appears) to have been.

I don't know how clever Dub was. I think the Maples were better educated and possibly more intelligent than Dub.


4) Since 9/11, the shenanigans that people used to pull off in the past (false identities,working off the books,etc) are actually more difficult.

Dub and Chance went missing in 1993. If they obtained new identities before any policies related to 9/11 went into effect, they wouldn't be scrutinized. It's the same as the Maples (and the other case I mentioned), who all had new IDs before 9/11. As far as "working off the books", I know several people who've been doing that since 9/11. IMO, the difficulty of finding a job that pays under the table hasn't been too hampered by any 9/11 related policies, especially with blue collar jobs like Dub would be expected to be doing.


5) They had access to ready cash if I remember the situation correctly. Wackerhagen couldn't even afford his own place to live.

I don't know the finances of the people in either situation. The Maples lived much better lifestyles than Dub did, but it doesn't mean that Dub and Chance couldn't live off the radar in less expensive accomodations than the Maples.

I think the biggest issue is the age of the children involved. How old were the Baskin kids when they were taken by their grandparents? Pretty young I think?

9 years old seems awfully old to me to be trying to "re-program" a kid, which Dub would basically have to do. On the other hand, the woman Dub killed was not Chance's mother, so... maybe not.

I think the biggest issue is the age of the children involved. How old were the Baskin kids when they were taken by their grandparents? Pretty young I think?

I'm not sure... I think they were somewhere around 6 and 8 years old. I'm pretty sure that at the time of their abductions they were younger than Chance.

I think Dub did it, his ex wife said when they first got married he was great and towards the end of the marriage she feared him.

I liked the actor the portrayed Dub, made it feel like I watching the real guy based on how people described him.

On the other hand, the woman Dub killed was not Chance's mother, so... maybe not.

But Dub was still taking Chance away from his biological mother because of a murder his father committed. I think Chance would have been very difficult to "brainwash" given that and his age.

It's a bad sign that Chance has not surfaced in all these years. If I were to guess, it seems that the blood found in the truck is likely his blood. Of course, a DNA test would clear things up.

Also, I find it bizarre that Dub's wallet and checkbook were found in his truck. It's not a good sign if the authorities trying to find Dub alive.

After re-watching this case, I have given up trying to give a firm theory on the case. The case is filled with what ifs.

It's a bad sign that Chance has not surfaced in all these years. If I were to guess, it seems that the blood found in the truck is likely his blood. Of course, a DNA test would clear things up.

Also, I find it bizarre that Dub's wallet and checkbook were found in his truck. It's not a good sign if the authorities trying to find Dub alive.

After re-watching this case, I have given up trying to give a firm theory on the case. The case is filled with what ifs.

I don't remember this little tidbit...was it mentioned in the UM segment? If so, then it's very unlikely that Dub is still alive.

I think that Chance might have pulled the trigger in this one, and then his dad took him and fled so he wouldn't be prosecuted.

I highly doubt a kid like Chance would "acciddently" shot 6 times in her mother-in-law with his father .22 revolver.

I highly doubt a kid like Chance would "acciddently" shot 6 times in her mother-in-law with his father .22 revolver.

I wonder if an eleven year old child would even be able to fire the weapon 6 times, with the recoil and all.

Something just doesn't feel right, its one of those cases that seems almost to open and shut.

Pretty much sums up my sentiments, too.


For the record, for a looooong time I actually leaned more towards the theory that a third party killed all three of them--but primarily on the feeling that Dub killing Latricia and fleeing with Chance seemed entirely too pat. Perhaps that isn't entirely logical, and lately I have been considering the simplest course of action: that Dub committed the murder, fled with Chance, and they've been living underground ever since.

HOWEVER, these are things that bother me:

1. The .22. Who owned the firearm Latricia was killed with--or who close to Latricia was at least known to own a firearm of that caliber?
2. Dub's hunting rifle had not been fired and was found with his truck.
3. The location of the truck when it was found. Why abandon it less than half an hour away from Lockhart and in an alleged "high-crime" area?
4. I don't question at all what Chance's mother Gaye claims when she says she was "scared to death" of Dub by the time she left him. But he apparently wasn't consistently violent, as he did have joint custody of Chance, and Gaye did give permission for Chance to spend extra time with his father just days before they disappeared. (See article)

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/crime/New-hope-for-a-Caldwell-Co-cold-case


Another thing that bothers me: apparently just after Latricia was discovered murdered, a phone call was made from a "mounted cell phone" in Dub's truck, according to the above article. Was this his abandoned Ford, or a commercial truck he might've owned and operated? If Dub's truck driving base was Austin, it would make a lot more sense that his pickup would be abandoned there.

EDIT: Watched the news segment. It was mounted in the pickup according to that account. That tends to raise more questions for me.

Count me as one of the people who finds it strange that there haven't been any sightings of a big, distinctive-looking man and a young boy (now a man, if he is still alive). I know that there have been cases where people have been able to hide out with children, but it just seems unlikely to me that these two would have been able to hide out for so long.

This makes me fear for Chance's life. It would be much easier to be on the run without a child. It is possible that Dub killed Chance and then killed himself, but then why wouldn't he have done that right at the house? Sadly, it would make more sense for Dub to have killed his girlfriend, taken Chance away, killed him and disposed of his body (hence the unidentified blood in the truck) and then gone on the run. This way, the possibility of a different attacker looks more plausible than if Dub had left both bodies in the house.

I really don't know, though. It is intriguing that the police officer mentioned that the truck was left in a high-crime area. Was Dub sharp enough to purposely leave it in such an area to cast suspicion way from himself?

If Dub did not do it, then what is the theory of the crime? Any number of unknown people [unknown to us, that is] could have done it. But how? There are no signs of a struggle and no other blood in the house. So the attacker shoots the woman, then abducts Dub and Chance at gunpoint, takes them away in Dub's truck, kills them, and disposes of their bodies - all in an effort to frame Dub. This is possible but seems somewhat unlikely to me. Does anyone else have other theories of how a killer other than Dub could have pulled this off?

EDIT: I just watched the link posted in the previous post. The newscast says that the crime scene in the house was cleaned up. If this is true, there seems to be little to no chance of an abduction scenario, unless Dub and Chance came on to the scene some time after Latricia was killed.

I think Dub, after killing Latricia, took Chance with him in a panic with the intention of fleeing the area and keeping Chance with him. Only after he found out how hard it was going to be living on the lam with a young child, I think he killed Chance and eventually himself. I also think Dub's father knew more than he was telling, because IIRC he killed himself as well.

This story is one for the creep factor. You would think someone would recognize them. Anyone belive the grandparents about that phone call from Chance?

This story is one for the creep factor. You would think someone would recognize them. Anyone belive the grandparents about that phone call from Chance?

I agree re: the creep factor.

I think the phone call was probably a prank, personally.

Maybe their still out there and Dub brain washed Chance against contacting family.

Look what I found

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/crime/New-hope-for-a-Caldwell-Co-cold-case

This case got on the news in 2010. The cops were trying to match the blood found in Dubs truck to either Dub or Chance? Wonder who they and if they matched blood up to one of them?

The article reads that the phone call was made from the phone in Dubs truck. So one wonders if Chance was made to make that phone call or was he truly scared and made them phone call himself for help?

Good find!

So over 3 years ago, it was reported that they were DNA testing blood found in Wackerhagen's truck that did not belong to the victim.

I searched the news site and that was the only article I could find on this case, so they never gave any further info on the DNA test. The officials must have the results by now. I wonder what they found out/didn't find out.

How strange that the family put an obituary for Dub in the paper years after he and Chance vanished. Why do that? Was it part of having him declared dead legally? If that was the reason, why is his life insurance still unclaimed? And then his father committed suicide in 1999. I wonder what his motive was. Was he in poor health or did he know something about Latricia's murder and couldn't take it anymore?

What is the timeline of events in this case? Most of what I've found doesn't give dates but says things like "two days before", "three days later", etc. I'd like to pin it down a bit better to understand what was going on.

From reading here, the news article linked above, the UM site, and the UM wikia, it looks like Chance was staying with Dub for a while over the Christmas holiday. He was supposed to go back to his mother on Christmas day, but called and asked to stay another day, which she agreed to. Latricia was found murdered two days after Christmas, and Chance and Dub were missing.

12/23ish - Dub and Latricia argue, Dub packs his bags and threatens to leave
12/25 - Chance, Latricia, and Dub visit Latricia's family for the holiday. Chance is supposed to be taken back to his mother on this date but calls and asks to stay an extra day
12/26 - The date the article says Latricia's father found her body, but UM gives this as the time that all 3 were seen at a restaurant
12/27 - The date the UM wikia and UM website gives for Latricia being found murdered
12/30ish - Dub's truck is found abandoned 30 miles from the murder scene

What day was it determined that Latricia died? Was she already dead at the time Chance called his mom and asked to stay another day? I'm just wondering if Latricia had already been murdered by the time of the call and Dub had Chance make this call to ask to stay longer so that would give them time to get out of town without raising suspicion.

When the pickup truck was found, it contained Christmas presents, some of which were unopened and all of which had blood stains. Since this was after Christmas, who were the unopened gifts for? Were these gifts Chance was supposed to be taking to his mom when he went home after his visit with Dub? I'm assuming that since Latricia had seen her family for Christmas the gifts were not to/from her or her children.

Did Dub use these gifts as a lure to get a homeless person close enough to attack him and steal his ID, getting some blood on the items as he did so? The police don't think the blood was from a fatal or even very serious injury. Dub's check book and wallet were left in his truck, along with valuables like a rifle, tools, and gifts. I can't see a criminal leaving all those items behind, but if Dub wanted to disappear, leaving his wallet and checkbook makes him look like a victim, and leaving the tools, gun, and gifts behind makes it easier to leave town without any baggage or things that could be traced back to him.

From reading that article, it sounds like the authorities know something they can't share. They seem convinced that Dub & Chance fled to Mexico.

Seems plausible. I actually am beginning to wonder about the "Chance did it" theory. I'd never heard it before, but I like it.

I wonder what makes the authorities think Dub and Chance are in Mexico and did'nt fly out to some other country?

Seems plausible. I actually am beginning to wonder about the "Chance did it" theory. I'd never heard it before, but I like it.

Oh brother. What is there to like about a kid killing his mother? I doubt that's the way it went down, btw. Certainly not a lot of 10 year olds running around killing their moms. I'd like to know what evidence there is. I think this ridicilous notion that Chance did it was borne out of the same people who started the whole "Rob Shaffer did it" and similar crap as a way to look impressive by thinking outside the box for unusual theories. I don't buy it.

Latricia was shot in the head six times. I doubt a nine year old boy would have been strong enough to shoot someone precisely in the head six times without the gun recoil hurting him or throwing him off balance. Plus, Dub is the one with the motive to kill Latricia, not Chance. It wasn't even Chance's mother, just his dad's girlfriend.

If Chance was still alive, since he was 9 at the time, he would have memories of his mother and his family. I think he would have wanted to contact them by now, or made an attempt to get away from Dub. Sadly, I think Chance is dead. Although the Charley Project website for him says his mother thinks Dub would never harm Chance.

Although the Charley Project website for him says his mother thinks Dub would never harm Chance.

I think if Chance is dead, it means Dub is dead as well. I can envision a murder-suicide, but not Dub murdering his son and continuing on.

I think if Chance is dead, it means Dub is dead as well. I can envision a murder-suicide, but not Dub murdering his son and continuing on.

This is what I'm thinking too. I doubt Dub would have been able to survive long enough without someone noticing him or Chance.

I think I might be able to stomach the "Chance-did-it" theory if Latricia weren't shot six times. I could may envision an accidental shooting if she were shot two or three times, but not one that is clearly intentional.

Firstly, Chance at the time was a nine year-old boy. I understand children sometimes commit murder, but it's extremely rare. Secondly, he had no discernible motive to harm Latricia. Thirdly, the boy had to be somewhat familiar with a handgun to operate the weapon. I realize this is largely anecdotal, but I'm a southerner, and little boys Chance's age owning and using BB guns and small-caliber rifles wasn't and isn't at all unusual in that part of the country. But I've never heard of a nine year-old boy using a handgun, even if it's "just" a .22.

I think a good point is made about aim. If this was an accidental shooting by Chance, I think the shots would be everywhere, not grouped in one area. I think the only way it could be an accident and have those six shots centered in on Latricia's head is if the pistol were an automatic, which the very vast majority of private citizens do not own.

I realize, again, it's "just" a .22. But it still has SOME recoil, and I can't imagine a nine year-old weighing about sixty-odd pounds being able to control a handgun well enough to squeeze the trigger six times in a consistent way and achieve a shot group similar to what was seen in Latricia's murder.


I think a .22 might have been used because they're very quiet. I don't know if it was confirmed that Latricia was shot in her sleep, but it would make sense. The shots couldn't be heard over a long distance in the middle of the night. I just wish we knew more about the weapon, specifically who around Latricia was KNOWN to have a weapon of that caliber.

They said the scene had been cleaned up. How do we know if she was killed in bed? Was she wearing a night gown or pajamas when found? She could have been killed some place else in the house and just put in the bed. With things being cleaned up it kind of makes it harder to figure just what happened. And I just don't see a stranger coming in kiling her and taking the time to clean up. It had to be some one closely involved in some one way.

Course we don't know who owned the gun that killed Latricia. I stil think he flew out to another country. There are lots of cases of people hiding with their kids in totaly diffrent countries. And many don't have any reason to work with america on finding our missing and wanted. No treaties or anything. Course people are kown to dump vehicles off at air ports to through police off , could be same for having Chance make that phone call.

What a confusing case!

I stil think he flew out to another country. There are lots of cases of people hiding with their kids in totaly diffrent countries

Money is an issue. If they did make it to, and subsequently hide out in another country, I think it would have to be someplace like Mexico or Canada. Somewhere they'd be able to 1) speak the language, or find a large contingent of English speakers, 2) live reasonably on a small budget at least initially, 3) feel reasonably comfortable. I've been wrong many times before, and I don't like delving into thinking in stereotypes, but I just can't at all envision a Texan trucker like Dub Wackerhagen making off to say, Scotland or Germany and adjusting quietly and quickly.

Money is an issue. If they did make it to, and subsequently hide out in another country, I think it would have to be someplace like Mexico or Canada. Somewhere they'd be able to 1) speak the language, or find a large contingent of English speakers, 2) live reasonably on a small budget at least initially, 3) feel reasonably comfortable. I've been wrong many times before, and I don't like delving into thinking in stereotypes, but I just can't at all envision a Texan trucker like Dub Wackerhagen making off to say, Scotland or Germany and adjusting quietly and quickly.

Or unless he had some sort of ties to another country. I know their are other countries that have english speaking sections. Usually becasue of military work, or some buisness organizational work. I guess it would be a stretch, but you never know.

I can't really decide if I think Chance is deceased or not.

If he's alive, was he ever re-enrolled in school somewhere?

Why wouldn't he at some point return to Texas, or to at least try to contact his mother? Gaye had primary custody of Chance at the time he disappeared, not Dub.

I don't know. I'm kind of leaning toward both being gone at this point.

Dub could have totaly munipulated his mind about the situation.

I tend to think the lack of any mention by UM about the gun means it was either tied to Dub or Latricia. Had it not belonged to either, they would have brought this up in Dub's defense in order to play up the potential "unknown assailant" angle.

I tend to think the lack of any mention by UM about the gun means it was either tied to Dub or Latricia. Had it not belonged to either, they would have brought this up in Dub's defense in order to play up the potential "unknown assailant" angle.

Probably.

The truck being left in Austin bothers me a little bit. Weren't Dub's wallet and hunting rifle left behind? Why completely discard those things, especially if you're about to cross the border with Mexico? Had he already some kind of false identification?

What bothers me most of all though is the blood. I don't know--the more I think about it, the more it seems like that could've been an attempt to stage a crime scene.

I stil think he flew out to another country. There are lots of cases of people hiding with their kids in totaly diffrent countries. And many don't have any reason to work with america on finding our missing and wanted. No treaties or anything.

The only countries Dub would poss. have a chance to travel to and make a living would be Canada or Mexico. I suppose it's plausible to suggest Dub might be driving a truck in the oilfields of the Canadian West, with a new identity, etc. but Chase is still problematic.

Actually Dubs truck was left behined found at an air port. Thats why I say he could have flown out anywhere, or he could have left it there to make people think he did. Mostly likely their living out of the country.

Actually Dubs truck was left behined found at an air port. Thats why I say he could have flown out anywhere, or he could have left it there to make people think he did. Mostly likely their living out of the country.

Dub's truck wasn't found at an airport. It was found deserted in east Austin off Manor Road. Apparently that's near an airport, however.

Well near it then anyway. He still could have flown out anywere.

What bothers me most of all though is the blood. I don't know--the more I think about it, the more it seems like that could've been an attempt to stage a crime scene.

Didn't somewhere say the amount of blood found in the truck was a small amount that could have came from a cut? The blood in the truck could be a red herring, IMO.

Panama can never be overlooked as a possible country to flee to. While they call it the Balboa, the currency there is the American dollar (they mint their own coins, but the dollars are from the US) The cost of living is significantly lower than in the US. There is a large ex-pat contingency and there were significantly MORE Americans there in 1993, due to the US still controlling the canal at that point and there being a much larger US military presence then. I am also 99 percent certain that a passport was not needed to enter Panama from the US in 1993. (I believe this changed in 1999 or 2000 with the handover of the canal.)

Didn't somewhere say the amount of blood found in the truck was a small amount that could have came from a cut? The blood in the truck could be a red herring, IMO.


Yep, the police don't believe it came from a serious or fatal injury, and it was found on the christmas gifts that were left in the truck.

That was what made me wonder if Dub had used wrapped presents to lure someone to him, then maybe punched the guy, getting blood on the gifts and disabling the victim long enough to take his ID so he could cross the border or travel under an assumed identity.

Yep, the police don't believe it came from a serious or fatal injury, and it was found on the christmas gifts that were left in the truck.

That was what made me wonder if Dub had used wrapped presents to lure someone to him, then maybe punched the guy, getting blood on the gifts and disabling the victim long enough to take his ID so he could cross the border or travel under an assumed identity.

Or Chance scratches his finger climbing in the truck to open some presents. Dub and Chance could have flown out anywere.

Actually Dubs truck was left behined found at an air port. Thats why I say he could have flown out anywhere, or he could have left it there to make people think he did. Mostly likely their living out of the country.

Yes, he was physically capable of flying anywhere, but there's little chance he did. Given that only 20% or so of Americans even have passports, Dub would certainly not be in the demographic you'd expect to have one. Even if he did, he spoke no foreign languages, had no ready access to money, and from what is presented in the segment, would have been a cultural misfit, notwithstanding the possibility of schlepping a petulant child with him.

Much more of a chance Dub's body, or what's left of it, is somewhere in the Texas hills.

I would say people can be pretty resourcefull evading the law, or we wouldn't have so many unsolved cases out there. He could be anywhere , in another country or right under someones nose in the us somewhere.

Yes, he was physically capable of flying anywhere, but there's little chance he did. Given that only 20% or so of Americans even have passports, Dub would certainly not be in the demographic you'd expect to have one. Even if he did, he spoke no foreign languages, had no ready access to money, and from what is presented in the segment, would have been a cultural misfit, notwithstanding the possibility of schlepping a petulant child with him.

Much more of a chance Dub's body, or what's left of it, is somewhere in the Texas hills.


Please see my previous comment about Panama. No passport needed. Large ex-pat community. English widely spoken. Low cost of living and they use the dollar. He wouldn't be the first Unsolved Mysteries perp to flee there. Edward Harold Bell was caught in Panama and extradited to the US. In fact, he was caught shortly before Dub and Chance vanished.

Two questions:
Does anyone know the date the update to the Edward Harold Bell case aired?
Does anyone know if Dub had any military history?

Please see my previous comment about Panama. No passport needed. Large ex-pat community. English widely spoken. Low cost of living and they use the dollar. He wouldn't be the first Unsolved Mysteries perp to flee there. Edward Harold Bell was caught in Panama and extradited to the US. In fact, he was caught shortly before Dub and Chance vanished.

Two questions:
Does anyone know the date the update to the Edward Harold Bell case aired?
Does anyone know if Dub had any military history?

Panama doesn't have a large American expat community. Mexico and Costa Rica have far more, nor is English especially wide spoken - certainly by the upper classes and in business, but not overall. Panama had a US military presence, certainly, including some civilians, until the PCZ was handed back to Panama in '99. Since it was US territory, a passport wouldn't have been required for the Zone (but would have been for Panama proper)

IF Dub had some some of military connection, it's POSSIBLE, i suppose, he could have found a way to get to the zone, but being filled with military folks and MP's, I wouldn't think it would be the type of place a guy on the run would gravitate to.

And Bell was an international businessman, not a hill county unemployed trucker. Big difference in circumstances.

I would say people can be pretty resourcefull evading the law, or we wouldn't have so many unsolved cases out there. He could be anywhere , in another country or right under someones nose in the us somewhere.

IF he and Chase still alive, the latter is far more likely. Very few common criminals go abroad, unless, of course, they are returning to countries of origin.

IF he and Chase still alive, the latter is far more likely. Very few common criminals go abroad, unless, of course, they are returning to countries of origin.

I tend to think so as well--IF the two are alive. I don't know if I really think that they are, unfortunately.

I can also envision the two making it into Mexico or Canada, but Dub running out of money quickly, or becoming otherwise overwhelmed, and taking both of their lives shortly after the disappearance.

Dubs family said he never hurt Chance.

Passports were not required in 1993 despite the PCZ being dissolved in 1979. I know. I've been there. Repeatedly. And many, many people in Panama City and Colon speak at least rudimentary English. There is also a retirement community of expats up in David.

Yes, there are more Americans in Canada and Mexico, but geographically speaking, that's pretty obvious.

My Spanish is awful, wretched even, and I had no trouble near the Canal, sure, in the countryside it was an issue, but not in the city.

Panama doesn't have a large American expat community. Mexico and Costa Rica have far more, nor is English especially wide spoken - certainly by the upper classes and in business, but not overall. Panama had a US military presence, certainly, including some civilians, until the PCZ was handed back to Panama in '99. Since it was US territory, a passport wouldn't have been required for the Zone (but would have been for Panama proper)

IF Dub had some some of military connection, it's POSSIBLE, i suppose, he could have found a way to get to the zone, but being filled with military folks and MP's, I wouldn't think it would be the type of place a guy on the run would gravitate to.

And Bell was an international businessman, not a hill county unemployed trucker. Big difference in circumstances.

I would'nt past anyone who wants ot hide from the law. He could be anywere.

Dubs family said he never hurt Chance.

In a murder-suicide scenario, Dub could rationalize killing his son as an act of compassion. He involved Chance in something so overwhelmingly life-altering that he might see death as preferable to having to go on and live with the circumstances and consequences supposedly created by Dub--or to being left without a father, or whatever.

Dub's father himself makes one of the most important points about this whole thing: money. Neither of them could get anywhere without it. I'm having a hard time believing Dub had enough to get them by for a considerable period during which Dub almost certainly wasn't employed.

Panama doesn't have a large American expat community. Mexico and Costa Rica have far more, nor is English especially wide spoken - certainly by the upper classes and in business, but not overall. Panama had a US military presence, certainly, including some civilians, until the PCZ was handed back to Panama in '99. Since it was US territory, a passport wouldn't have been required for the Zone (but would have been for Panama proper)

IF Dub had some some of military connection, it's POSSIBLE, i suppose, he could have found a way to get to the zone, but being filled with military folks and MP's, I wouldn't think it would be the type of place a guy on the run would gravitate to.

And Bell was an international businessman, not a hill county unemployed trucker. Big difference in circumstances.

The Canal Zone was dissolved in 1979. The Canal itself was handed back at noon on Dec 31, 1999. Passports were ENCOURAGED, but not required until sometime around the military and Canal pullout in 1999. Much like Bermuda and Canada at the time, you could get in with a birth certificate and a picture ID.

So, there was no "zone" to get into, there were a few bases left and lots of personnel.

Do I think it's the most likely place he fled to? No. But then again, if he was in the most likely places, he wouldn't still be missing 20 years later.

The Canal Zone was dissolved in 1979. The Canal itself was handed back at noon on Dec 31, 1999. Passports were ENCOURAGED, but not required until sometime around the military and Canal pullout in 1999. Much like Bermuda and Canada at the time, you could get in with a birth certificate and a picture ID.

So, there was no "zone" to get into, there were a few bases left and lots of personnel.

Do I think it's the most likely place he fled to? No. But then again, if he was in the most likely places, he wouldn't still be missing 20 years later.

The zone was jointly administrated by the USM and Panama between '79 and '99, so there was still a zone, but fair enough, but I think MegTheEgg hits the more fundamental question on the head: Dub didn't have the $ to get to Houston, let alone Panama. There is no evidence Latricia had large amounts of money secreted in her trailer, nor was Dub a criminal-type who would go rob a bank or take other such actions.

I think chances are good he and Chase are dead and I suspect a murder-suicide. It certainly wouldn't be unusual for a body, especially ones out in the hills and/or deserts of Texas, to disappear due to natural factors.

I think chances are good he and Chase are dead and I suspect a murder-suicide. It certainly wouldn't be unusual for a body, especially ones out in the hills and/or deserts of Texas, to disappear due to natural factors.

Quite true.

I just tend to like to explore as many possible outcomes as possible when dealing with fugitives.

(O/T: Darnit, now I really want to go back to Panama. I blame you. :) )

In a murder-suicide scenario, Dub could rationalize killing his son as an act of compassion. He involved Chance in something so overwhelmingly life-altering that he might see death as preferable to having to go on and live with the circumstances and consequences supposedly created by Dub--or to being left without a father, or whatever.

Dub's father himself makes one of the most important points about this whole thing: money. Neither of them could get anywhere without it. I'm having a hard time believing Dub had enough to get them by for a considerable period during which Dub almost certainly wasn't employed.

I agree with the murder-suicide scenario you posted. Dub's father also killed himself years after Dub disappeared. I think he knew more than he let on. The only way I can envision Dub and Chance being alive is if they are somewhere here in the US living under new identities. And I think Dub's family would have had a hand in helping him hideout. That would explain why the father killed himself. Unless of course he knew Dub killed Chance and then himself.

I'm leaning towards these 2 being deceased unfortunately. Don't you think someone would have seen them or their family would have heard something from them in 20 years time? And Chance would have had to have been enrolled in school at some time or another, unless they were both under an alias. Chance would be an adult now, don't you think he would have surfaced by now if he's alive? Someone out there knows the fate of these 2 and needs to start talking!

I'm leaning towards these 2 being deceased unfortunately. Don't you think someone would have seen them or their family would have heard something from them in 20 years time? And Chance would have had to have been enrolled in school at some time or another, unless they were both under an alias. Chance would be an adult now, don't you think he would have surfaced by now if he's alive? Someone out there knows the fate of these 2 and needs to start talking!



Not nessscerily. Chance over all these years could have been led by his dad to beleive a whole alternate truth then what really happened.

Not nessscerily. Chance over all these years could have been led by his dad to beleive a whole alternate truth then what really happened.

This is possible. But Chance was 9 when he disappeared, and his mother had custody of him at the time. I find it hard to believe that if he is still alive today, he has made no effort to contact or try to find his mother and his family.

This is possible. But Chance was 9 when he disappeared, and his mother had custody of him at the time. I find it hard to believe that if he is still alive today, he has made no effort to contact or try to find his mother and his family.


Look at the Baskin Kids they still haven't connected with their parents. They are a clear exampoe of being told a story about there past from a young age to the point were they believe it as their reality. Who knows what Chance has bene told and how his reality is precieved by him.

Look at the Baskin Kids they still haven't connected with their parents. They are a clear exampoe of being told a story about there past from a young age to the point were they believe it as their reality. Who knows what Chance has bene told and how his reality is precieved by him.
I was thinking about the Baskins as well. But the Maples had months upon months to feather their nest and turn the kids against their parents before actually running away. While Dub may have trashtalked about Chance's mom and Latricia, possibly, I think convincing a 9-year-old boy who was seeing his dad off and on to see things one way would be significantly more difficult.

I was thinking about the Baskins as well. But the Maples had months upon months to feather their nest and turn the kids against their parents before actually running away. While Dub may have trashtalked about Chance's mom and Latricia, possibly, I think convincing a 9-year-old boy who was seeing his dad off and on to see things one way would be significantly more difficult.


I'm talking about if he is alive and grown it would mean Dub had all this time to believe a diffrent reality.

I was thinking about the Baskins as well. But the Maples had months upon months to feather their nest and turn the kids against their parents before actually running away. While Dub may have trashtalked about Chance's mom and Latricia, possibly, I think convincing a 9-year-old boy who was seeing his dad off and on to see things one way would be significantly more difficult.

I agree. The "advantage" the Maples had was that Bobby and Christi were living with them the vast majority of the time--and had been for some time. As horrible as it is to even consider, it's easy enough to psychologically manipulate someone who sees you as a primary caretaker or provider--but it's especially easy if whomever you're attempting to turn your target against is physically far removed from the situation, as Mark and Debbie were.

However, the situation was reversed in Chance Wackerhagen's case. He lived with his mother near Corpus Christi most of the time. His father lived over three hours away in Lockhart, and Chance only saw him some of the time. It was Gaye that had the ideal situation to manipulate Chance--not Dub (and of course, there's nothing at all to indicate that she ever did, and I'm not insinuating that at all).

Not everyone is particularly inclined to playing "mind tricks", either. Some people simply use force. Perhaps it was less "Latricia was a bad woman/was going to kill us", etc., and more "Hush up and get in the truck, boy".

Of course, there's no telling. I still think they're probably both not alive.

Look at the Baskin Kids they still haven't connected with their parents. They are a clear exampoe of being told a story about there past from a young age to the point were they believe it as their reality. Who knows what Chance has bene told and how his reality is precieved by him.

The Maples didn't murder anyone though. Dub most likely murdered Latricia and Chance witnessed it or heard the gunshots. There is a huge difference between the two.

The Maples didn't murder anyone though. Dub most likely murdered Latricia and Chance witnessed it or heard the gunshots. There is a huge difference between the two.



Side step the murder. He took his child and has been living with his dad or near his dad all this time and been told all these years a diffrent reality then what really was. That is very much like the Baskins being taken away their grandkids and telling them for years an alternet reality. I desagree that Maples had a chance to minipulate the Baskin kids before they kidnapped them. Because the Baskins had visitations with there kids who would ask them when they were going home with them. They apprently new the real situation at the time. My point still stands that as far as getting these kids away from their parents and kidnapping them and staying hidden gave them years to twist and minipulate their reality. To the point were they belive the ulternate reality told to them and don't want to contact their parents. Same could be said for Chance in regaurds to him being away to with his dad this long. We don't know what reality he believes.


And as far as memories. Every person or child is diffrent. Some people remember things , some people don't. 8 is still very young and impressionable age. It all depends on the person really.

I desagree that Maples had a chance to minipulate the Baskin kids before they kidnapped them. Because the Baskins had visitations with there kids who would ask them when they were going home with them. They apprently new the real situation at the time.

It does not necessarily follow that because the children were asking about when they were to reunite with their parents, they "knew the real situation" (which couldn't possibly be true anyway--they were children operating on children's logic, and limited and/or incorrect information).

Life isn't black and white, so to speak, and neither are an individual's feelings about people he or she loves and trusts. I'm sure Bobby and Christi endured the kind of confusion no person--child or adult--should ever be put through by someone else.

My point still stands that as far as getting these kids away from their parents and kidnapping them and staying hidden gave them years to twist and minipulate their reality. To the point were they belive the ulternate reality told to them and don't want to contact their parents. Same could be said for Chance in regaurds to him being away to with his dad this long. We don't know what reality he believes.

We have no idea why Mark and Debbie's children have not contacted them. Any statement on it at this point is pure speculation.

The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children have created a new age progression of Chance Wackerhagen at what he'd look like today at age 28.

https://sphotos-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/66114_636364443047891_451728596_n.jpg

It does not necessarily follow that because the children were asking about when they were to reunite with their parents, they "knew the real situation" (which couldn't possibly be true anyway--they were children operating on children's logic, and limited and/or incorrect information).

Life isn't black and white, so to speak, and neither are an individual's feelings about people he or she loves and trusts. I'm sure Bobby and Christi endured the kind of confusion no person--child or adult--should ever be put through by someone else.



We have no idea why Mark and Debbie's children have not contacted them. Any statement on it at this point is pure speculation.

They new what was going on till the maples took them away and created a new reality for them. The same could have happened to chance.

They new what was going on till the maples took them away and created a new reality for them. The same could have happened to chance.

Latricia was shot 6 times. Chance had to have heard or witnessed something, possibly even seeing her dead body. And he was being taken away from his birth mother, which would have made it harder for Dub to brain wash him as the Maples did.

Latricia was shot 6 times. Chance had to have heard or witnessed something, possibly even seeing her dead body. And he was being taken away from his birth mother, which would have made it harder for Dub to brain wash him as the Maples did.

Chance had no connection to Latricia and did not get along with her. Very simple to convence and 8 year old to go a long with him. Buy now if he is still alive he is an adult and after so many years of being led to believe what ever he was told about the situation as a child by his father ,he could still believe it. And we have no idea if Chance witnessed anything. For all we know Chance could have been playing outside or any another room in the house and not realize his dad killed her. The two could have left so quickly the kid never realized what happened. And then the thing could have been so tramatic it was blocked out of Chance's mind.

Chance had no connection to Latricia and did not get along with her. Very simple to convence and 8 year old to go a long with him. Buy now if he is still alive he is an adult and after so many years of being led to believe what ever he was told about the situation as a child by his father ,he could still believe it. And we have no idea if Chance witnessed anything. For all we know Chance could have been playing outside or any another room in the house and not realize his dad killed her. The two could have left so quickly the kid never realized what happened. And then the thing could have been so tramatic it was blocked out of Chance's mind.

There's no way Chance didn't see or hear something with regards to Latricia's murder. You don't sleep through 6 shots in a confined space such as a house. I think Dub escaped shortly after killing Latricia, killed Chance shortly after and then himself.

One thing that has me thinking he did not kill Chance, was the fact that in the reinactment, the step mother says he is spoiled. I know that was just a scene. we don't know she actually said that....but it obviously is true somehow. The child could get away with a lot, I am assuming is what that scene was for. His only child, a boy. I can't see him killing his child.

My uncle kidnapped his son from a playground in 1966. She was a drunk and he felt at the time, that was what he had to do. Wasn't right, but he got away with it for 35 years. My cousin was told she was too sick to be a mom and he didn't question it until he remembered he had a little sister. My uncle was 6'6 and huge....and they hid out for years.

So, it's possible they are alive and well.

My uncle kidnapped his son from a playground in 1966. She was a drunk and he felt at the time, that was what he had to do. Wasn't right, but he got away with it for 35 years. My cousin was told she was too sick to be a mom and he didn't question it until he remembered he had a little sister. My uncle was 6'6 and huge....and they hid out for years.

So, it's possible they are alive and well.

Although I lean toward Dub and Chance being deceased, I think that's a really valid point on the height. I think it's wrong to assume that because someone's at or over 6'4", they absolutely stand out in any given crowd in any given place. They don't--especially in the United States where most people are taller on average than many, many other people throughout the rest of the world.

One thing that has me thinking he did not kill Chance, was the fact that in the reinactment, the step mother says he is spoiled. I know that was just a scene. we don't know she actually said that....but it obviously is true somehow. The child could get away with a lot, I am assuming is what that scene was for. His only child, a boy. I can't see him killing his child.

My uncle kidnapped his son from a playground in 1966. She was a drunk and he felt at the time, that was what he had to do. Wasn't right, but he got away with it for 35 years. My cousin was told she was too sick to be a mom and he didn't question it until he remembered he had a little sister. My uncle was 6'6 and huge....and they hid out for years.

So, it's possible they are alive and well.

Yes it is. It is very possible.

Don't know if this has been posted anywhere on here but about 5 years ago, a poster at websleuths suggested this as a possible match for Dub Wackerhagen and no one really followed up on it:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/UnidentifiedDetails.asp?id=U9812001

Someone bumped it recently and I guess that's why I missed it over there until today.

The age range is correct. Height and weight are a bit off, but he was found several years after Dub went missing. He is classified as a suicide and Charley Project says Dub may be suicidal. Both men have scars on both arms.

The style of the glasses that really stood out to me.

It says he had "extensive and expensive" dental work. I didn't see anything on Charley Project about that, since it's actually Chance's page there that has the info. Anyone know if Dub had a lot of expensive dental work?

Don't know if this has been posted anywhere on here but about 5 years ago, a poster at websleuths suggested this as a possible match for Dub Wackerhagen and no one really followed up on it:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/UnidentifiedDetails.asp?id=U9812001

Someone bumped it recently and I guess that's why I missed it over there until today.

The age range is correct. Height and weight are a bit off, but he was found several years after Dub went missing. He is classified as a suicide and Charley Project says Dub may be suicidal. Both men have scars on both arms.


Wow, that's eerie. It also says the person possibly lived in a tent or caves.

The style of the glasses that really stood out to me.

It says he had "extensive and expensive" dental work. I didn't see anything on Charley Project about that, since it's actually Chance's page there that has the info. Anyone know if Dub had a lot of expensive dental work?

Don't know if this has been posted anywhere on here but about 5 years ago, a poster at websleuths suggested this as a possible match for Dub Wackerhagen and no one really followed up on it:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/UnidentifiedDetails.asp?id=U9812001

Someone bumped it recently and I guess that's why I missed it over there until today.

The age range is correct. Height and weight are a bit off, but he was found several years after Dub went missing. He is classified as a suicide and Charley Project says Dub may be suicidal. Both men have scars on both arms.

The style of the glasses that really stood out to me.

It says he had "extensive and expensive" dental work. I didn't see anything on Charley Project about that, since it's actually Chance's page there that has the info. Anyone know if Dub had a lot of expensive dental work?

I doubt it. In the additional notes it says he was riding a bike.

Wow, TracyLynnS very compelling post. Thanks for the link! Yes the first thing that stood out to me was the glasses. It looked like the type Dub was wearing in the pictures released of him. Also the fact he was possibly living in a cave or tent would be possible since Dub was no doubt on the run after he murdered Latricia. Here is the composite and glasses in the link TracyLynnS posted along with a picture of Dub for comparison if anyone is interested. If by some miracle this were Dub the question remains.....what happened to Chance?

I don't think it's him. The sketch resembles Dub, but they also say that he rode a ten speed bike. And the extensive dental work. Since Dub is wanted, you would think that information would have been released somehow (if he in fact did have dental work).

I don't think it's him. The sketch resembles Dub, but they also say that he rode a ten speed bike. And the extensive dental work. Since Dub is wanted, you would think that information would have been released somehow (if he in fact did have dental work).

I don't understand why the fact that this person was riding a bike would discount him. Remember that Dub had abandoned his vehicle so it would make sense that he had to find some type of transportation and this would have been very cheap, if not free, plus he wouldn't have had to worry about licensing it and coming up with a name to put it in.

....what happened to Chance?

This man was found May 27, 1998, within about 24 hours of his death.

Chance was born September 2, 1984. That would mean at the time this man's body was found, Chance would have been 13 1/2 years old. That's kind of young for him to be living in caves or tents (as this guy was suspected to do) or on the street on his own. :(

I think the composite is an absolute dead-ringer for Dub. However, the deceased man had brown hair and hazel eyes. Dub has dark blonde hair and blue eyes. :(

Definitely should be checked out STAT, though.

I don't understand why the fact that this person was riding a bike would discount him. Remember that Dub had abandoned his vehicle so it would make sense that he had to find some type of transportation and this would have been very cheap, if not free, plus he wouldn't have had to worry about licensing it and coming up with a name to put it in.

Dub, being a trucker, just doesn't strike me as the type to ride around on a bike. Plus, in a 2010 article on the case, the lead investigator said "all signs point to Mexico" where Dub fled. His father committed suicide, which was another red flag, IMO. I think his family knows where he's at, and has helped him escape.

So this guy was found dead by suicide in 1998 and, from what I read, Dub's father committed suicide in 1999. hmmm...

Wow, I had no idea Dub's dad committed suicide in '99. Of course that itself doesn't prove anything, but it could've been either (1) out of guilt if he knew something he was hiding, or (2) grief from missing him and Chance.

Even though the guy had a hostile nature and a bad temper, somehow I don't think he'd be evil enough to hurt Chance. Not ruling it out, but I'm not leaning that way. More than likely they're both long dead, but if they are alive, they're probably both living under new identities or in another country.

Although Chance is 28-29 now and has been an adult for quite some years, so you'd think he'd have at least made an attempt to re-contact his mom.

Put a time line together here


Dec. 23 -Dub and Lattricia fight and Dub threatens to leave the house with Chance.
Dec. 24-Chance calls his mother asking to stay another day. And sounded excited.
Dec. 25-Lattricia ,Dub and Chance spend Christmas at Lattricia's family's house they say she was on edge. And when Dub asked her if she would go to take Chance home the next day with him She said she was not going.
Dec.26-Lattricia,Dub and Chance are scene at a Restaurant enjoying themselves over dinner. (Why did Chance not go home as scheduled? Or call his mother to ask to stay another day? She has said she was waiting for another phone call from him as to what the plan was to bringing him back home. I suspect he begged his dad to let him stay another day and being nine probably forgot to call or was planing on calling the next morning.)

Dec. 27-Lattricia does not show up for work in the morning and her body is found in her bed that evening by her father. (Though we are not told weather she was dressed in night clothes or not. I would assume she was when found and that Lattricia and Dub argued while she was getting ready for bed and by the time she got into bed and rolled over on her side to sleep Dub shot her. As for Chance's partial foot print which was made by a little blood and found in the hall. We have know way of knowing if Chance ever saw anything or when he got the blood on his foot. Or if some of Lattricia's blood was dragged in others places in house from the crime scene for Chance to accidentally step in. Since a very hasty job was done of cleaning up. The one thing the bare print says is Chance was woken out of sleep. When else is child his age barefoot in the dead of winter but to be sleeping.

Dec. 28-A ten minute phone call was made from Dubs truck phone. (The police have made a point to say in every article that the phone call was made after Lattricia's body was found. Realistically a killer is not going to waste time after the victim's body was found to make a phone call days later but sooner, like the following morning.)

Dec. 30 -1 am Dubs Truck was found in Austin ,Texas near an airport. (That is a short amount of time between the phone call and when the truck was found. I would say It was abandoned after the phone call on the 28th and left there all day on the 29th till it was found on the 30th. )


What I wonder is were was Dub and Chance were between the time they left Lattricia's house and that phone call was made. There were no public sightings of them and they had to eaten and slept somewhere in that 24 hour time frame. It only takes 33 minutes to get from Lockhart to Austin TX. So who helped them and let them stay at their home for a night? And who was that phone call made too? The cops said they have the record , I wonder if the number called was on the record? As for the bloody presents , those presents were probably put in the truck by Chance one of the time he thought he was going home , they sound like his presents he had opened on Christmas day and some he may have been taking to his mom and possibly siblings. As for the blood what is the first thing you do when leaving a crime a scene you make a dump of evidence. Dub probably cut his finger dumping stuff like the murder weapon, his bloody clothes and anything else he wanted to get rid of and ended up getting cut and bleeding on the gifts in the process. Remember the gun was never found and its illegal to take a gun over the boarder. It was said on the segment that Lattrice's house looked as if Dub and Chance had never been there . That none of their things were around. It is obvious that they took the bags of their clothes with them. So why were these bags of clothes not found in the truck? Because they took them with them. Someone had to have given them lift the boarder. I just do not see how they would not be recognized taking public transportation. So they only way to get out is to have gotten a ride. The distance from Austin ,TX to the Mexican boarder is 5 hours and 1 minute. You would certainly not going to walk this.


Chance's supposed phone call to his paternal grandfather was made 4 months later. the help help one. If it was him.

And Chance could have been told anything about the situation he was only nine at the time and could believs anything buy now. Jessica Mullenberg was taken from her family and in matter of weeks the man that she was with had her believing she had another name and was his daughter. When cops found her months later it took quiet a bit of time of the cops showing her pictures and telling her who she was for her to realize it and she was 13.

Wow, TracyLynnS very compelling post. Thanks for the link! Yes the first thing that stood out to me was the glasses. It looked like the type Dub was wearing in the pictures released of him. Also the fact he was possibly living in a cave or tent would be possible since Dub was no doubt on the run after he murdered Latricia. Here is the composite and glasses in the link TracyLynnS posted along with a picture of Dub for comparison if anyone is interested. If by some miracle this were Dub the question remains.....what happened to Chance?

Holy wow, that looks just like him!

The dental work thing throws me off. It could have been a fact that investigators left out in case they found a body and could use the dental work to positively ID him. However, with this body being found years ago and no match, it makes me wonder. But that picture looks exactly like him.

Having said that, I think Dub killed his wife, took his son and fled. My only problem with that theory is that Chance would be around 30 by now. At some point, don't you call your mother (who by all accounts, he had a good relationship with) just to let her know you're ok? I mean he's been a legal adult for 12 years now. Just seems unlikely that Chance is still alive.

Eye color doesn't match...but could that be a mistake?

I dont think its him for a few reasons. He wouldve had to kill chance and hide his body otherwise, im pretty sure chance would have shown up somewhere. I doubt Dub would have intentionally harmed his son. I think killing his girlfriend was a snap decision but I honestly dont think he would kill his son.

I think the lead investigator is correct about Mexico. Dub could have told Chance a number of things to get him to stay with him even as an adult. Young kids are easily influenced by a parent they love.

I dont think its him for a few reasons. He wouldve had to kill chance and hide his body otherwise, im pretty sure chance would have shown up somewhere. I doubt Dub would have intentionally harmed his son. I think killing his girlfriend was a snap decision but I honestly dont think he would kill his son.

I think the lead investigator is correct about Mexico. Dub could have told Chance a number of things to get him to stay with him even as an adult. Young kids are easily influenced by a parent they love.

I dunno. Part of me wonders if Dub killed his girlfriend and afterwards, he and Chance went into some forest or wilderness area and Dub killed Chance than himself. Just because he loved Chance doesn't mean he wouldn't necessarily kill him. Maybe he figured the cops would soon connect him to his girlfriend's murder and arrest him, and that Chance wouldn't be able to cope without his father. It's not uncommon for killer parents to believe in killing their kids as an act of mercy.

Besides who knows what kind of mental state Dub would be in after killing his girlfriend? Adrenaline and panic coursing like crazy...in that state, maybe even his love for his son would not have won out.

I do think Dub's family is a little naïve in persisting to believe that some stranger would break in, kill an adult female, yet decide to abduct guy who was over six feet tall and his kid for who knows what reason. But you kind of understand why they grasp at hope.

Long time lurker and first time poster here. Hi All.
I'm skeptical about Dub being the guilty party here. Yes he was a big guy and maybe he had a temper, but he could be easily subdued if the perpetrator knew his achilles heel - his son. Someone comes in the house. He/She puts a gun to Chance's head as a way to keep Dub at bay. This could be before or after Leticia is killed. Dub isn't going to make a move that's going to cost him his son especially after what just happened to his girlfriend. Pointing the gun at Chance and threatening him is how a large guy like Dub was moved from that house. Dub and Chance are then made to disappear and when Leticia is found, Dub is nowhere to be found and therefore seems like the responsible party. Someone gets rid of Leticia, throws most all suspicion at Dub for the crime and walks away scot-free. While Dub may have been mad at Leticia for her interactions with Chance - was he really mad enough to want her dead? Six bullets in the head? Someone who had a bigger beef than the chastising of a child did this to Leticia.

Maybe.
I'm think the remains found in 98 could be dub. Maybe chance is with his dad's family somewhere.
Dubs dad committed suicide because he wanted out if helping his son hide.that would be hard thing to deal with.

Long time lurker and first time poster here. Hi All.
I'm skeptical about Dub being the guilty party here. Yes he was a big guy and maybe he had a temper, but he could be easily subdued if the perpetrator knew his achilles heel - his son. Someone comes in the house. He/She puts a gun to Chance's head as a way to keep Dub at bay. This could be before or after Leticia is killed. Dub isn't going to make a move that's going to cost him his son especially after what just happened to his girlfriend. Pointing the gun at Chance and threatening him is how a large guy like Dub was moved from that house. Dub and Chance are then made to disappear and when Leticia is found, Dub is nowhere to be found and therefore seems like the responsible party. Someone gets rid of Leticia, throws most all suspicion at Dub for the crime and walks away scot-free. While Dub may have been mad at Leticia for her interactions with Chance - was he really mad enough to want her dead? Six bullets in the head? Someone who had a bigger beef than the chastising of a child did this to Leticia.
Ok then who and what do you think happened to Dub and Chance?

maybe chance killed them both and ran off

I want to believe that Dub and Chance escaped to Mexico, simply because it's such an easy option for cons, especially if one lives in Texas. However, you think that they'd be caught by now, because a little kid with blonde hair would surely stick out like a sore thumb in Mexico.

Aside from the hair and eye color of the John Doe being different than Dub, it should also be pointed out that Dub's hair was already thinning significantly by '93 which does not appear to be the case with the JD five years later. I doubt Dub would have had time or money while on the run to join Hair Club for Men.

And no, I'm not also a client. :cool:

because a little kid with blonde hair would surely stick out like a sore thumb in Mexico.

Depending of the area, no he wouldn't.

Holy wow, that looks just like him!

The dental work thing throws me off. It could have been a fact that investigators left out in case they found a body and could use the dental work to positively ID him. However, with this body being found years ago and no match, it makes me wonder. But that picture looks exactly like him.

Having said that, I think Dub killed his wife, took his son and fled. My only problem with that theory is that Chance would be around 30 by now. At some point, don't you call your mother (who by all accounts, he had a good relationship with) just to let her know you're ok? I mean he's been a legal adult for 12 years now. Just seems unlikely that Chance is still alive.


the frames of the glasses are made of different material.

Depending of the area, no he wouldn't.

not to mention he is 33 now . he would look quiet different than he did at nine.

I just died laughing at that hair club for men statement!!!

Regarding the involvement of Chance:

If he did kill Latricia somehow, why did Dub flee in the first place? Although Dub would have been the initial prime suspect, evidence would have cleared Dub from the crime (GSR, blood evidence, etc.) and could have corroborated the account that Chance did it. And the ramifications for a 9 year old would have been decidedly less than they would have been for Dub. And if Dub did in fact panic and flee for fear of being implicated, why not resurface since then? Why not make a phone call to Chance's mother or any other relative and let them know what happened? Just doesn't make any sense.

In the Unresolved Mysteries subreddit, one poster was adamant that Latricia's ex-husband was the guilty party. Anyone know how the police cleared him? I'm sure that they investigated him, but we don't hear a peep about him in the segment.

In the Unresolved Mysteries subreddit, one poster was adamant that Latricia's ex-husband was the guilty party. Anyone know how the police cleared him? I'm sure that they investigated him, but we don't hear a peep about him in the segment.

Yes that was odd. The majority of the people interviewed in the segment were related to Dub. I'm guessing the ex had an alibi. Combine that with the fact that Dub was missing, it would make sense that the ex was cleared.

In the Unresolved Mysteries subreddit, one poster was adamant that Latricia's ex-husband was the guilty party. Anyone know how the police cleared him? I'm sure that they investigated him, but we don't hear a peep about him in the segment.

Interesting. Someone in the comment section on the Unsolved Mysteries page for this case also mentioned Latricia's ex-husband and how they got divorced only 30 days before she was murdered.

Since the blood found in Dub's truck did not belong to Latricia, I've never ruled out the possibility that someone else could have murdered all three of them and went to the trouble of disposing of Dub and Chance's bodies just for the purpose of making it look like Dub committed the crime before he fled with his son. While I don't think a random perp would go to that much trouble, it would make sense for Latricia's ex to divert all the attention away from himself since he would otherwise be the prime suspect with an obvious motive. But since the only information we have about this ex-husband is rom random commenters, this is merely wild speculation.

I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around the ex committing the murder. If Dub wasn't at the home that night, I could buy it. But he lived there, had a pretty heated argument with Latricia about Chance three days prior, and he ultimately went missing. Nothing is mentioned about who the murder weapon belonged to, which tells me it was either Dub's or Latricia's. And it seems implausible that the ex would chose a night to murder Latricia, knowing that Dub lived there, and seeing Dub and Chance home with her. I'm assuming, since it wasn't mentioned in the segment and since the police indicted Dub for the murder, that there was no other evidence (I think the segment mentioned no signs of a struggle) that a gun was fired in the house anywhere other than the bedroom. So that at the very least rules out the theory that Dub was killed in the house along with Latricia. And if he wasn't killed in the house, how did the killer get him to leave and cooperate with him? Now granted, Chance would be a good reason for Dub to cooperate. But considering that Dub's truck was found 30 miles away: how did the killer get away from the area after dumping Dub's truck, and what exactly did he do with Dub and Chance? The officer interviewed in the segment says something along the lines of that the blood found in the truck indicated that someone was not seriously injured. If Dub didn't do it, how did he or Chance get injured in the car? No evidence of gunshots in the car, so I find it hard to believe that Dub would sit by and let Chance get injured without intervening. And if Dub was the one injured, he was a big guy. I think he would've fought back at some point or try to get the drop on the killer. No evidence of any struggle (besides the blood) was found in Dub's truck.

All signs point to Dub, IMO.

I also thought that maybe Chance killed her and Dub took him and both ran because he didn't know what to do. It did say that a lot of the fights happened because of chance. He seems like a tall bulky guy, it would be hard not to recognize him don't you think?

http://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Investigators-reopen-1993-Texas-murder-disappearance-case-379961121.html

Recent article. Looks like police are steering away from the theory that Dub is the guilty party.

http://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Investigators-reopen-1993-Texas-murder-disappearance-case-379961121.html

Recent article. Looks like police are steering away from the theory that Dub is the guilty party.

Wow, investigators are saying they now have evidence that Dub and Chance were also victims of foul play! Really interested to see how this develops.

Maybe the suicide of Dub's father was just a red herring?

I wonder if the new information they have is a dead body? What other evidence could they have just discovered that would lead them to that conclusion after nearly 25 years?

Maybe the suicide of Dub's father was just a red herring?
When did his Dad commit suicide? Wasn't he in the UM segment?

Wow, investigators are saying they now have evidence that Dub and Chance were also victims of foul play! Really interested to see how this develops.

Potentially for a podcast that we're all obsessed with? :)

This IS a really interesting turn of events. Given that Dub and Chance had been off the grid for so long, I could see where authorities would feel that they are also the victims of foul play.

The way the UM segment played out, though, it DID seem like the most likely suspect was Dub, although I couldn't fathom him killing his own child. (That doesn't stop people from doing it, I realize, but still.)

I wonder if someone close to the killer has gone to authorities and spilled some beans? In my mind, SOMETHING had to trigger the re-opening of the case. Is it a body, a confession, or something else?

When did his Dad commit suicide? Wasn't he in the UM segment?

Dub's father committed suicide in 1999, years after the segment aired. The act could be interpreted in multiple ways since the whole thing was pretty much a no-win situation for the Wackerhagen family: either Dub was dead or he was a murderer. If Dub's father had been helping him while he was on the run, he could have killed himself because he was overwhelmed with guilt and reached his breaking point. Or he could have just been overwhelmed with grief over having lost his son and grandson.

Potentially for a podcast that we're all obsessed with? :)

Oh, believe me, I'd love to cover this one :) .

This IS a really interesting turn of events. Given that Dub and Chance had been off the grid for so long, I could see where authorities would feel that they are also the victims of foul play.

The way the UM segment played out, though, it DID seem like the most likely suspect was Dub, although I couldn't fathom him killing his own child. (That doesn't stop people from doing it, I realize, but still.)

I always found it interesting how ambiguous the UM segment seemed to be about Dub's propensity for violence. It's clear he was known for having a temper and getting angry a lot, but did he ever cross the line into abuse? Dub's ex-wife talks about being scared to death of him by the end of the marriage and that Dub treated her other child badly, but she never actually states if he was violent or physically abusive.

Even the investigator said that Dub was a generally decent guy who probably wouldn't have committed murder if he had just taken a few minutes to cool himself down. I guess it's possibly he could have shot Latricia in the heat of the moment, but he doesn't sound like the type of guy who would make a calculated decision to murder his own child.

I still have a hard time rectifying that if a unknown person murdered all three of them, why remove Dub and Chance from the house after murdering Latricia? Why not kill all three at the residence?

Those links seem to think that the only reason that they believe them to be victims of foul play was because nothing was missing from the house. But the UM segment states that Dub's truck was found (with his wallet and checkbook) thirty miles away from the crime scene. Either he abandoned them there because he knew he was going to kill Chance and them himself, or this unknown third party drove them there and made Dub leave his wallet and checkbook in an effort to frame him. But if that's the case, where are the bodies?

I still have a hard time rectifying that if a unknown person murdered all three of them, why remove Dub and Chance from the house after murdering Latricia? Why not kill all three at the residence?

Those links seem to think that the only reason that they believe them to be victims of foul play was because nothing was missing from the house. But the UM segment states that Dub's truck was found (with his wallet and checkbook) thirty miles away from the crime scene. Either he abandoned them there because he knew he was going to kill Chance and them himself, or this unknown third party drove them there and made Dub leave his wallet and checkbook in an effort to frame him. But if that's the case, where are the bodies?

Yes, the only plausible reason why someone would go to the trouble of disposing of Dub and Chance's bodies and abandoning Dub's truck would be if they wanted to frame Dub for the murder and make it look like he went on the run. If this were true, then the killer's plan technically worked since a warrant was issued for Dub's arrest almost immediately. I do find it interesting that Chance had previously called his mother and asked if he could stay with Dub for a few extra days. It's possible the killer had no idea Chance was even still going to be at the house when the crime took place and the kid was murdered because he was a witness.

Earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that Latricia's ex-husband was named as a possible suspect in a subreddit and the UM website's comment section and on the surface, he would seem like an ideal candidate to do something like this since pinning the murder on Dub would divert all suspicion away from himself. But of course, this is all just speculation, since there's no verifiable information out there about the ex-husband other than a few anonymous commenters.

I still think investigators must have uncovered extra evidence we don't know about yet if they're willing to reverse their position after 20+ years and think that Dub and Chance were victims.

I still think investigators must have uncovered extra evidence we don't know about yet if they're willing to reverse their position after 20+ years and think that Dub and Chance were victims.

Outside of a confession or remains, I don't see what exactly they could have found to drastically alter their opinion.

I was just about to post that article. Did the Caldwell County officials ever positively identify the blood spattered in Lee's truck? They said it was not Latricia's, so it had to be Lee's or Chance's blood. This might be the evidence they are talking about when they said they have evidence of foul play in their disappearances as well, but who knows. I don't think Lee's family was involved in Latricia's murder or the disappearances, and neither was Gaye Williams' family (Chance's mother). If Lee didn't do this, then who had a reason to kill all three? The jealous ex-husband angle could be likely, but hearsay at the moment. We'll have to see if the police come up with any other suspects.

Been a while since I watched the segment, and I must say I've always "hoped" Dub was somehow innocent...

But there seems to me to be a serious defect with the "Dub wasn't involved" narrative. IIRC, Latricia's body was found in the house on the bed. While blood from an unidentified sources was found on Christmas packages in the back of Dub's truck... how would this imagined third party have gotten past Dub to where Latricia was, shot her, and then forced Dub and Chance out? Because there is nothing to suggest, as far as anything I have ever seen, that either Dub or Chance were assaulted inside the home...

EDIT: I notice now that TheCars1986 beat me to this observation. So, hats off to TheCars1986!

This is one of those UM cases that has always fascinated me. With most of the other stories, I had a pretty solid theory of what I thought happened, to the point where I was able to reasonably discount things that suggested otherwise. In the case of Dub and Chance, I can really only go off how it was portrayed on the show. The program was certainly edited, and it's possible that parts that might have pointed away from Dub being the killer were edited out. The show certainly made it look as though Dub was the killer. I personally think that Dub and Latricia had a fight that got out of control, Dub shot her, and fled with Chance. It's possible that once on the run, Chance made him angry by wanting or trying to contact his mother or law enforcement, or was generally making things difficult for his father - after what he'd witnessed (it's impossible to me that he didn't hear the gunshots and watch the cleanup), he would be understandably traumatized. Dub, likely in a state of agitation and panic himself (I don't believe he planned the murder - it was spur of the moment and he likely regretted it after the fact), wouldn't have needed much to go over the edge, and I do think he was capable of killing Chance considering the strain he probably already felt. I doubt he would have then killed himself, for the simple reason that a suicide victim can't exactly hide their own body.

With regard to Dub's family, I think his sister sounded sincere in insisting she hadn't heard anything from Dub or Chance. I think it's possible that Dub's father (Lee Sr.), either alone or with his wife's knowledge, helped Dub after the fact, being bound both by loyalty to his son and his concern for his grandson's well-being. Either Chance was alive at the time Dub contacted his father for help, or Dub lied and told his father that the boy was still alive. Perhaps Lee Sr. learned about Chance's death later, and being overwhelmed with guilt for allowing his son to get away as well as keeping the secret from the rest of his family, took his own life. I think that Dub is either still on the run living under another identity somewhere, or he has possibly died of other causes in the meantime.

Granted, this is wild speculation, but to me it seems the most likely scenario of what may have happened.

This is one of those UM cases that has always fascinated me. With most of the other stories, I had a pretty solid theory of what I thought happened, to the point where I was able to reasonably discount things that suggested otherwise. In the case of Dub and Chance, I can really only go off how it was portrayed on the show. The program was certainly edited, and it's possible that parts that might have pointed away from Dub being the killer were edited out. The show certainly made it look as though Dub was the killer. I personally think that Dub and Latricia had a fight that got out of control, Dub shot her, and fled with Chance. It's possible that once on the run, Chance made him angry by wanting or trying to contact his mother or law enforcement, or was generally making things difficult for his father - after what he'd witnessed (it's impossible to me that he didn't hear the gunshots and watch the cleanup), he would be understandably traumatized. Dub, likely in a state of agitation and panic himself (I don't believe he planned the murder - it was spur of the moment and he likely regretted it after the fact), wouldn't have needed much to go over the edge, and I do think he was capable of killing Chance considering the strain he probably already felt. I doubt he would have then killed himself, for the simple reason that a suicide victim can't exactly hide their own body.

With regard to Dub's family, I think his sister sounded sincere in insisting she hadn't heard anything from Dub or Chance. I think it's possible that Dub's father (Lee Sr.), either alone or with his wife's knowledge, helped Dub after the fact, being bound both by loyalty to his son and his concern for his grandson's well-being. Either Chance was alive at the time Dub contacted his father for help, or Dub lied and told his father that the boy was still alive. Perhaps Lee Sr. learned about Chance's death later, and being overwhelmed with guilt for allowing his son to get away as well as keeping the secret from the rest of his family, took his own life. I think that Dub is either still on the run living under another identity somewhere, or he has possibly died of other causes in the meantime.

Granted, this is wild speculation, but to me it seems the most likely scenario of what may have happened.

I'm with you completely up to a point. If Chance was, in the investigator's words, the probable "pivot point" in an altercation between Dub and Latricia, I have a hard time envisioning Dub then turning around to kill the son over whom he theoretically killed his lover. Of course, we actually still don't know for sure what started the alleged confrontation.

If Dub was suicidal, why would he feel compelled to hide his own body?

I've always wanted to believe in Dub's innocence. I remember first watching the segment hoping there was some sort of evidence that he didn't do it, because I didn't want to believe a father would kill someone (possibly in front of his son), and then kill the son as well. Charley Project updated both Dub and Chance's pages, saying that authorities believe they are both victims of foul play. Unless there is a person close to Latricia (or Dub for that matter) who wanted one or both of them dead, I still can't see how Dub wasn't involved.

If there's an unknown third party responsible, they killed Latricia and removed Dub and Chance (presumably at gunpoint) in an effort to frame Dub. Why remove the male threat in the residence? Hiding two bodies is much more difficult than one. Why not kill Dub and Chance in the house, and take Latricia's body out and hide her remains to frame her? Why unload on Latricia while she's sleeping but leave Dub and Chance unharmed in the residence? Why leave Dub check books and wallet in his truck if you plan on framing him as if he took off and fled?

IMO, there's too many unanswered questions for me to buy into the third party theory.

This segment, if I recall, had a great line that was just UM gold.

During an argument with Dub:

Latricia: ...but it's MAH HOUSE!

Okay. Just had to get that out. :)

This segment, if I recall, had a great line that was just UM gold.

During an argument with Dub:

Latricia: ...but it's MAH HOUSE!

Okay. Just had to get that out. :)

:lol:

I would have cackled if I didn't have a sleeping baby right beside me.

I'd really like to know what this new information is that leads police to the theory that Dub and Chance may have also been victims of foul play. I can't wrap my head around why the killer would leave Latricia behind and take Dub, who was much larger and would be more difficult to subdue if he was alive or bury if he wasn't. It just makes no sense to me.

I always found it interesting how ambiguous the UM segment seemed to be about Dub's propensity for violence. It's clear he was known for having a temper and getting angry a lot, but did he ever cross the line into abuse? Dub's ex-wife talks about being scared to death of him by the end of the marriage and that Dub treated her other child badly, but she never actually states if he was violent or physically abusive.

I'm thinking that if Dub ever did physically menace or assault someone, it was never reported to the authorities. I reckon UM would've been all over that piece of information like white on rice, as would the news agencies reporting the story.

Even the investigator said that Dub was a generally decent guy who probably wouldn't have committed murder if he had just taken a few minutes to cool himself down. I guess it's possibly he could have shot Latricia in the heat of the moment, but he doesn't sound like the type of guy who would make a calculated decision to murder his own child.

I feel similarly. I think if Dub did kill Chance, it would be in the vein of a murder-suicide.

Where Dub's truck was found has always kind of bothered me. It was found about half an hour away from Lockhart (where Latricia was shot) in Austin, in an area I didn't get an impression would be convenient to hitch a ride out.

Some people take the fact that Latricia was shot in her bed to be a sign of Dub's guilt, but that's always bothered me. I always figured that if Dub killed her, it would have been a heat-in-the-moment crime of passion. However, the fact that Latricia appeared to be shot several times as she was sleeping seems to indicate that her death was a calculated act of murder (much like how Joe Owens shot his wife in her bed as she slept). In spite of the problems with Dub and Latricia's relationship, I'm not sure what would compel an otherwise decent guy like Dub to deliberately commit an act of cold-blooded murder and essentially ruin the lives of both himself and his son.

I am surprised nobody heard the gunshots, but it's probable that whomever killed Latricia, being Lee or someone else, used a pillow to muffle the sound of gunfire. Not sure if it's important, but did they find pillow fibers in and around the bedroom or in the gunshot wounds? I also feel that if Lee did do this, then it's possible he could have killed Chance too, as Chance might have witnessed the murder and was killed to keep quiet, or had acted traumatized sometime after and Lee shot him so he'd shut up. I can't fathom how that could even happen, it bothers me to think a 9-year-old boy is dead, murdered perhaps.

Some people take the fact that Latricia was shot in her bed to be a sign of Dub's guilt, but that's always bothered me. I always figured that if Dub killed her, it would have been a heat-in-the-moment crime of passion. However, the fact that Latricia appeared to be shot several times as she was sleeping seems to indicate that her death was a calculated act of murder (much like how Joe Owens shot his wife in her bed as she slept).

This is an interesting point I'd never considered before.

In spite of the problems with Dub and Latricia's relationship, I'm not sure what would compel an otherwise decent guy like Dub to deliberately commit an act of cold-blooded murder and essentially ruin the lives of both himself and his son.

The argument over Chance between Dub and Latricia reenacted in the segment was witnessed by a third party--a friend of one, the other, or both over at the house that evening. This person, apparently, recounted the argument culminating in Dub packing up his bags and threatening to leave. With that in mind, I guess I figure it's more likely that if Dub just couldn't take the situation with Latricia anymore, he'd do just that: pack up and leave.

But he lived there, had a pretty heated argument with Latricia about Chance three days prior, and he ultimately went missing.

That fight was apparently reported by another person who was over to Latricia's residence on the night in question. Obviously, we don't have Dub, Latricia, or Chance around to verify the story, but to be fair, no one can apparently corroborate that account. I personally don't think it's a fabricated story myself, but there's simply no way to really know. In the event it was made up or even exaggerated, I can imagine someone relaying this story in an attempt to establish a motive for Dub to have killed Trish.

Nothing is mentioned about who the murder weapon belonged to, which tells me it was either Dub's or Latricia's.

Agreed, plausible.

And it seems implausible that the ex would chose a night to murder Latricia, knowing that Dub lived there, and seeing Dub and Chance home with her.

Well, we don't know all that for certain, though. We simply just don't know enough about the ex-husband to determine that he was aware Latricia and Dub were living together, let alone that Chance--who was a visitor--was there at the time. He may not even have lived in Lockhart, for all we know.

I'm assuming, since it wasn't mentioned in the segment and since the police indicted Dub for the murder, that there was no other evidence (I think the segment mentioned no signs of a struggle) that a gun was fired in the house anywhere other than the bedroom. So that at the very least rules out the theory that Dub was killed in the house along with Latricia. And if he wasn't killed in the house, how did the killer get him to leave and cooperate with him? Now granted, Chance would be a good reason for Dub to cooperate. But considering that Dub's truck was found 30 miles away: how did the killer get away from the area after dumping Dub's truck, and what exactly did he do with Dub and Chance? The officer interviewed in the segment says something along the lines of that the blood found in the truck indicated that someone was not seriously injured. If Dub didn't do it, how did he or Chance get injured in the car? No evidence of gunshots in the car, so I find it hard to believe that Dub would sit by and let Chance get injured without intervening. And if Dub was the one injured, he was a big guy. I think he would've fought back at some point or try to get the drop on the killer. No evidence of any struggle (besides the blood) was found in Dub's truck.

All signs point to Dub, IMO.

I still agree at this point. I really wish we knew why the authorities have changed their minds on this one.

I came across a new video series on Youtube about unsolved cold cases called "Dark Matters". They did a video on this case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oyaIC9IJzk&t=614s

There's a very interesting comment on there from Chance's mother/Dub's ex-wife, Gaye Williams. It appears that she now believes that Gaye, Dub and Chance were all murdered by someone else:

"I am Gaye, the mother of Chance. Thank you Cayleigh for doing this video on Chance. I just want to give a few updates on the case. I was contacted by a law enforcement office on the case and met with him. He stated he started at the beginning and viewed all the evidence. He found a lot of discrepancies in the original investigation by other law enforcement division. As the meeting went along, he told me by the evidence he uncovered that my son Chance was dead along with Dub. He also stated the person that killed Latricia also did this unspeakable act. He gathered a group of people to search for the bodies but to no avail. He has spoken to the local DA but no charges can be filed until the bodies are found. I believe this to be true due to the some of the facts he provided me. I hope and pray that some day someone will come forward and provide me with the whereabouts of my son Chance so I can bring him home. I pray for the person that did this and I don't believe that person meant to kill Chance."

I came across a new video series on Youtube about unsolved cold cases called "Dark Matters". They did a video on this case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oyaIC9IJzk&t=614s

There's a very interesting comment on there from Chance's mother/Dub's ex-wife, Gaye Williams. It appears that she now believes that Gaye, Dub and Chance were all murdered by someone else:

"I am Gaye, the mother of Chance. Thank you Cayleigh for doing this video on Chance. I just want to give a few updates on the case. I was contacted by a law enforcement office on the case and met with him. He stated he started at the beginning and viewed all the evidence. He found a lot of discrepancies in the original investigation by other law enforcement division. As the meeting went along, he told me by the evidence he uncovered that my son Chance was dead along with Dub. He also stated the person that killed Latricia also did this unspeakable act. He gathered a group of people to search for the bodies but to no avail. He has spoken to the local DA but no charges can be filed until the bodies are found. I believe this to be true due to the some of the facts he provided me. I hope and pray that some day someone will come forward and provide me with the whereabouts of my son Chance so I can bring him home. I pray for the person that did this and I don't believe that person meant to kill Chance."

Looking through the other videos, there is also one on the Debbie Wolfe case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu5u1uXqDeM

I came across a new video series on Youtube about unsolved cold cases called "Dark Matters". They did a video on this case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oyaIC9IJzk&t=614s

There's a very interesting comment on there from Chance's mother/Dub's ex-wife, Gaye Williams. It appears that she now believes that Gaye, Dub and Chance were all murdered by someone else:

"I am Gaye, the mother of Chance. Thank you Cayleigh for doing this video on Chance. I just want to give a few updates on the case. I was contacted by a law enforcement office on the case and met with him. He stated he started at the beginning and viewed all the evidence. He found a lot of discrepancies in the original investigation by other law enforcement division. As the meeting went along, he told me by the evidence he uncovered that my son Chance was dead along with Dub. He also stated the person that killed Latricia also did this unspeakable act. He gathered a group of people to search for the bodies but to no avail. He has spoken to the local DA but no charges can be filed until the bodies are found. I believe this to be true due to the some of the facts he provided me. I hope and pray that some day someone will come forward and provide me with the whereabouts of my son Chance so I can bring him home. I pray for the person that did this and I don't believe that person meant to kill Chance."

I still can't figure out what reexaming the evidence was able to determine, but I'll take the investigators at their word. Part of me wonders if it had to do with the amount of blood found in Dub's truck (as in, they lost so much blood they couldn't be alive). Still odd to make that determination so many years later. It's also disappointing that, yet again, we learn that LE may have botched the original investigation.

I can't wait for RobinW's podcast on this case!

I still can't figure out what reexaming the evidence was able to determine, but I'll take the investigators at their word. Part of me wonders if it had to do with the amount of blood found in Dub's truck (as in, they lost so much blood they couldn't be alive). Still odd to make that determination so many years later. It's also disappointing that, yet again, we learn that LE may have botched the original investigation.

I can't wait for RobinW's podcast on this case!

Editing it as we speak :)

I know that in the original UM segment, they stated that there was enough blood in the truck to suggest someone had suffered an injury, but not a serious one. So it doesn't sound like the amount of blood was definitive enough to suggest foul play. I read some articles from a few years ago which stated they were planning to test the blood for DNA, but as far as I can tell, they've never released any results.

maybe chance killed them both and ran off


I could see something like that happening in the movies or even on Matlock

Interesting. Someone in the comment section on the Unsolved Mysteries page for this case also mentioned Latricia's ex-husband and how they got divorced only 30 days before she was murdered.

Since the blood found in Dub's truck did not belong to Latricia, I've never ruled out the possibility that someone else could have murdered all three of them and went to the trouble of disposing of Dub and Chance's bodies just for the purpose of making it look like Dub committed the crime before he fled with his son. While I don't think a random perp would go to that much trouble, it would make sense for Latricia's ex to divert all the attention away from himself since he would otherwise be the prime suspect with an obvious motive. But since the only information we have about this ex-husband is rom random commenters, this is merely wild speculation.

I bet you the ex hired someone. BUT I think it would take atleast 2-3 people to pull this off. I don't think it's likely one person did this by himself

I still have a hard time rectifying that if a unknown person murdered all three of them, why remove Dub and Chance from the house after murdering Latricia? Why not kill all three at the residence?

Those links seem to think that the only reason that they believe them to be victims of foul play was because nothing was missing from the house. But the UM segment states that Dub's truck was found (with his wallet and checkbook) thirty miles away from the crime scene. Either he abandoned them there because he knew he was going to kill Chance and them himself, or this unknown third party drove them there and made Dub leave his wallet and checkbook in an effort to frame him. But if that's the case, where are the bodies?

It was probably 2 or more people with a gun. Thats how they would be able to move dub around. It would take atleast 2 people even if it was a professional criminal.

It was probably 2 or more people with a gun. Thats how they would be able to move dub around. It would take atleast 2 people even if it was a professional criminal.

Still doesn't explain why they killed Latricia and left her where she was, and then took Dub and Chance elsewhere to presumably kill them too. If the intent was to murder one of them and frame the other, why not kill Dub at the house and remove Latricia and Chance and then kill them somewhere else? Would've been much easier to do.

Still doesn't explain why they killed Latricia and left her where she was, and then took Dub and Chance elsewhere to presumably kill them too. If the intent was to murder one of them and frame the other, why not kill Dub at the house and remove Latricia and Chance and then kill them somewhere else? Would've been much easier to do.


Great point

But Dub was known for his violent outbursts; wouldn't it seem more plausible if you framed the one that was normally the abuser? Although, it certainly wouldn't be easier.

But I also feel if someone was going to frame Dub,why leave his wallet and checkbook in the truck? Wouldn't you want to make it look like Dub took those things to help himself start a new life?

I still can't figure out what reexaming the evidence was able to determine, but I'll take the investigators at their word. Part of me wonders if it had to do with the amount of blood found in Dub's truck (as in, they lost so much blood they couldn't be alive). Still odd to make that determination so many years later. It's also disappointing that, yet again, we learn that LE may have botched the original investigation.

I can't wait for RobinW's podcast on this case!


Guessing it was some type of DNA?

Great point

But Dub was known for his violent outbursts; wouldn't it seem more plausible if you framed the one that was normally the abuser? Although, it certainly wouldn't be easier.

But I also feel if someone was going to frame Dub,why leave his wallet and checkbook in the truck? Wouldn't you want to make it look like Dub took those things to help himself start a new life?

Good point. If somebody was going to frame Dub they would have to ask themselves what would Dub do if he did this. And if Dub was going to commit a murder like this and flee he would probably do something to make it look like he didn't flee. But if Dub was going to flee he would have to bring his wallet and trucku would think.

After listening to RobinW's podcast episode about this case, I've been wondering what exactly could the investigators have uncovered that they missed originally? The only two things I could think of was DNA or a confession from someone who didn't commit the murders, but claims to know who did. The only problem with the DNA is where exactly did it come from? There were 2 crime scenes. Latricia's house and Dub's truck. There was blood found in the truck, but it was described as a non-fatal wound that would've produced the amount found. So unless there was new DNA testing done on the blood found in Latricia's house and it matched Dub, I don't see how DNA tests would help rule him out as the killer. And if blood was found in Latricia's house that matched Dub, why would the killer go through the trouble of moving his body (230 lbs.) instead of Chance and Latricia?

I'm also more interested in the 10 minute phone call placed from the cell phone mounted in Dub's truck. If it was an unknown third party making that call to have someone either pick them up or help dispose of the bodies, why was the duration of the call 10 minutes? But then I remembered reading Chance's mother's comment over on the forbidden site, about how she was sure the person who killed them didn't intend to harm Chance. Plus Chance wasn't supposed to be at Latricia's past Christmas, so the killer may have been startled by his presence. So I wonder if someone (possibly Latricia's ex) hired someone to kill her and frame Dub (or vice versa), and then the killer was forced to kill Chance too because he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Killer calls the person who hired him and explains how Chance was there and he had to kill him too, they concoct a new plan together before meeting up elsewhere and disposing the bodies and then Dub's truck. It would account for the duration of the phone call, and why Dub was set up as the person to be framed and not Latricia (because Chance was there).

Only problem I still have with all of this was that it has never been mentioned by anyone that the .22 used to kill Latricia did not belong to either her or Dub. If this was true, the Wackerhagen family would've mentioned this in the UM segment as another point in favor of Dub being innocent. How did this unknown third party gain entry into the house (with no signs of a struggle), locate Latricia or Dub's gun, shoot Latricia while she was sleeping (6 times), and then incapacitate or control Dub and Chance to take them out of the house and drive elsewhere before killing them too? You would think if this killer was there to murder Latricia, he would've been armed. You don't go to commit a murder without a weapon. I just find it crazy that this plot was well thought out in advance (killing Latricia and then Dub in an effort to frame him) when Chance was the wrench in the plans. Assuming a third party is responsible, the absence of Dub and Chance from the scene of Latricia's murder suggest there was some thought put into these murders. But an equally plausible (and more logical IMO) scenario simply has Dub kill Latricia while she sleeps before taking Chance and killing him, and then calling a friend or relative and confessing what he had done before eventually killing himself. And that's still what I believe. Even with the new information we have about authorities no longer thinking he's a suspect, I still think Dub did it. And I think there's a chance the authorities new line about not thinking Dub was responsible anymore is a way to either draw him out of hiding, or to have someone come forward with information about being in touch with him after his disappearance.

After listening to RobinW's podcast episode about this case, I've been wondering what exactly could the investigators have uncovered that they missed originally? The only two things I could think of was DNA or a confession from someone who didn't commit the murders, but claims to know who did. The only problem with the DNA is where exactly did it come from? There were 2 crime scenes. Latricia's house and Dub's truck. There was blood found in the truck, but it was described as a non-fatal wound that would've produced the amount found. So unless there was new DNA testing done on the blood found in Latricia's house and it matched Dub, I don't see how DNA tests would help rule him out as the killer. And if blood was found in Latricia's house that matched Dub, why would the killer go through the trouble of moving his body (230 lbs.) instead of Chance and Latricia?

Definitely agree that there's a good chance there's been a confession by someone who did not commit the murders. If a third party was responsible, it seems very likely someone else who helped them cover up the crime or knows what happened. At the very least, the killer would've had to get a ride from someone after abandoning Dub's pick-up truck in Austin.

If the comment from Chance's mother is legitimate, she seems to imply that the original investigation was mishandled. I guess it's possible there was strong evidence pointing to another suspect the entire time (such as someone else's DNA at the murder scene or in Dub's truck), but it was ignored until new investigators took over the case last year.

I'm also more interested in the 10 minute phone call placed from the cell phone mounted in Dub's truck. If it was an unknown third party making that call to have someone either pick them up or help dispose of the bodies, why was the duration of the call 10 minutes? But then I remembered reading Chance's mother's comment over on the forbidden site, about how she was sure the person who killed them didn't intend to harm Chance. Plus Chance wasn't supposed to be at Latricia's past Christmas, so the killer may have been startled by his presence. So I wonder if someone (possibly Latricia's ex) hired someone to kill her and frame Dub (or vice versa), and then the killer was forced to kill Chance too because he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Killer calls the person who hired him and explains how Chance was there and he had to kill him too, they concoct a new plan together before meeting up elsewhere and disposing the bodies and then Dub's truck. It would account for the duration of the phone call, and why Dub was set up as the person to be framed and not Latricia (because Chance was there).

Yes, the tidbit about the phone call drives me crazy, as it was only mentioned in one article from several years ago, back when Dub was still considered the prime suspect. If the call was made to someone from Dub's family or anyone associated with him, you'd think it would be pretty cut-and-dried he was responsible. Your scenario about a hired killer makes sense, but I have to think the call was made to someone with no known affiliation with the victims. Otherwise, it should have been very easy to pinpoint who committed the murders right from the outset.

Only problem I still have with all of this was that it has never been mentioned by anyone that the .22 used to kill Latricia did not belong to either her or Dub. If this was true, the Wackerhagen family would've mentioned this in the UM segment as another point in favor of Dub being innocent.

True enough. I initially assumed this was one of those details UM left out to make the story seem more mysterious, but it doesn't look like it's been mentioned in any source, so LE probably had a reason for deliberately withholding this piece of info from the public. Maybe they discovered something new about the murder weapon which prompted them to change their mind last year...

Even with the new information we have about authorities no longer thinking he's a suspect, I still think Dub did it. And I think there's a chance the authorities new line about not thinking Dub was responsible anymore is a way to either draw him out of hiding, or to have someone come forward with information about being in touch with him after his disappearance.

I've had other listeners suggest this theory and it's got me really curious if there are any other examples of LE lying about a wanted fugitive being dead in order to bring them out into the open. I guess the main drawback to this strategy is that if the public now believes Dub is dead, they won't bother to call in a tip if they happen to cross paths with someone who looks like him.

But, yes, if police hadn't changed their minds and made that announcement, all logic would point to Dub being the guilty party.

I've had other listeners suggest this theory and it's got me really curious if there are any other examples of LE lying about a wanted fugitive being dead in order to bring them out into the open. I guess the main drawback to this strategy is that if the public now believes Dub is dead, they won't bother to call in a tip if they happen to cross paths with someone who looks like him.

The only one I can think of off the top of my head (that was featured on UM) was Hari Gobin from the Moses Lall segment. Everything in the segment pointed to Gobin being responsible, but Stack repeatedly said that the police do not consider him a suspect and just wanted to talk to him. Granted, they didn't declare him dead, but they did say he wasn't a suspect in an attempt to draw him out.

They could make a movie out of so many of these cases. And what ever authorites think happened could be how to movie ends. Dub and Chance would. make a good movie as wood Cindy James, The Wackers, Matt Flores, Chaim Weiss, Norman Ladner, and Danny Casalaro just to name some.

Just watched this one again - what a mind bender. Also starting reading through this thread too, though when I found that authorities had uncovered new evidence, I skipped ahead a few pages.

I wasn't going to totally discount the 'Dub did it' theory at first, I was curious about Latricia - about her background, anyone she had recently been involved with besides Dub etc. Either this was investigated sloppily or UM decided to get on the hype train and run with the most obvious theory without exploring other valid avenues (I mean they never mentioned the murder weapon was a *revolver* or specified whether Latricia/Dub happened to own one........)

I too am curious as to what the authorities have uncovered. From what they said--Dub/Chance were possibly the victims of foul play--but the fact they haven't charged anyone or released any names leads me to believe they got a detailed/semi-detailed rundown from someone who was involved with the murders, but only tangentially (like a possible getaway driver) and they're now trying to verify everything, but just can't find the bodies (which, again, would explain why they haven't released any names/filed any charges).

At this point, I feel like someone - whether it be Latricia's ex or another party - hired at least 2-3 people to kill Latricia and wanted to explicitly frame Dub for it (doing so would also require Dub to be killed, which is why you'd need at least 2 people for the job).

When it comes to the phone call at the truck, I don't think it was a simple case of "hey, I did it..........the job is done". I think whoever was in the truck was told the party on the other end that he killed Chance along with Dub and wanted instructions on how to dispose of the bodies and/or where (that's the only explanation I could think of as to why the call lasted so long - simply informing someone the job is done, or getting pay-off instructions wouldn't take 10mins).

Was this truck ever processed though? Was the blood type analyzed and possibly compared to Dub/Chance? Were there fibers, fingerprints or other forensic evidence recovered? Also, could the phone call be traced (i.e. could the number/party on the other end be conclusively determined) ??

To me, answering some of these questions would really help flesh things out

Maybe as a trucker Dub had taken to transporting narcotics on the side, maybe she was in on it with them, some went missing or they were skimming & retribution was meted out? They went to the house looking for them-murdered her, then waited for Dub to turn up where he was accosted the second he walked in & abducted, the kid just being collateral damage.

Maybe as a trucker Dub had taken to transporting narcotics on the side, maybe she was in on it with them, some went missing or they were skimming & retribution was meted out? They went to the house looking for them-murdered her, then waited for Dub to turn up where he was accosted the second he walked in & abducted, the kid just being collateral damage.

Maybe Dub was the target! I honestly never thought of that. Good theory.

Maybe as a trucker Dub had taken to transporting narcotics on the side, maybe she was in on it with them, some went missing or they were skimming & retribution was meted out? They went to the house looking for them-murdered her, then waited for Dub to turn up where he was accosted the second he walked in & abducted, the kid just being collateral damage.

Never thought of this! Sounds easier/makes more sense than Latricia's ex doing it (or masterminding it).

Maybe as a trucker Dub had taken to transporting narcotics on the side, maybe she was in on it with them, some went missing or they were skimming & retribution was meted out? They went to the house looking for them-murdered her, then waited for Dub to turn up where he was accosted the second he walked in & abducted, the kid just being collateral damage.

The kid, Chance, in my mind was used to control Dub.

He goes in and sees Latricia dead.. He's likely not going to follow directions, but.. They grab Chance, tell Dub that they won't hurt the kid if he complies..

I do like your narcotics angle.. Dub skims some money, has it hidden somewhere, or perhaps just evidence of it.. Maybe he had been approached about doing something illegal and said no, but had evidence of the operation.. They go into the house after him, but he's not there.. Kill Latricia, grab Chance to control Dub.. Make him take them to get the evidence, then go out into the wilderness and kill both Dub and Chance.

But.. The fact that the police believe it was done by someone close.. Vehicle being found in a high crime area of Austin.. There's lots of places there along the Colorado river that it looks like a couple of bodies could be dumped and not found.

.... I've been wondering what exactly could the investigators have uncovered that they missed originally? .....

The possibilities are endless. The reasons countless cold cases have been solved are as unique as the cases themselves.

It could be a letter. A photograph. A witness talking. A fingerprint. A thread. A missed drop of blood on clothing that sat in an evidence box.

Or it could be several things. Maybe one thing led to another. That is often how investigations work.

Heck, even a cat hair was used to prove murder.

In criminal cases, there is much more the police know than we do.

I doubt they would make this announcement out of the blue if they didn't have some kind of evidence. I'm sure there is a good reason they're not telling us what it is.

This is not uncommon.

Based on what the ex said, it sounds like they know who did it but they don't think they have enough evidence for trial.

That is not uncommon, either.

I think that Chance might have pulled the trigger in this one, and then his dad took him and fled so he wouldn't be prosecuted.

I have thought this very thing. It is entirely possible that Chance just finally snapped after having lived in that dysfunctional situation

I don't agree with the assessment that Chance had anything to do with Latricia's murder. If he was so upset about the arguing, he would have called up his mother and said, "Mom, daddy and Trish are fighting and I want to come home" and Gay would have picked up her son.

I still feel that Lee finally snapped and killed Latricia. He then fled with Chance. I also feel that Lee might have killed his own son so he wouldn't blab, and/or that Chance was hysterical about what he saw and Lee shot him to shut him up.

The drug trafficking theory is a good point and so is Latricia's ex-husband possibly being involved. What I want to know is if he was involved, what was the motive and was their divorce amicable?

I have thought this very thing. It is entirely possible that Chance just finally snapped after having lived in that dysfunctional situation

So.. Just want to be sure i'm following your theory here.

Chance kills Latricia.. Either while Dub is there with him or while they're alone at some point.. (I seem to recall that Dub and Chance were out together the day they disappeared?)

Dub grabs Chance, loads him in the pickup.. They drive to the location out by the airport.. Dub leaves enough of both their blood so that the police think it's an amount that was non-survivable..

and then manages to completely disappear, with Chance, never to be seen again?


My problems.. 1) The blood. 2) Dub wasn't that smart. 3) Chance was.. 9? And Latricia was shot SIX TIMES in the head.

Sorry.. That one is too far out there for me to get on board with.

I still feel that Lee finally snapped and killed Latricia. He then fled with Chance. I also feel that Lee might have killed his own son so he wouldn't blab, and/or that Chance was hysterical about what he saw and Lee shot him to shut him up.

The problem with that theory is that authorities have now determined that Dub and Chance were victims. I wish we knew what the evidence was, but I'm assuming it has to do with blood found in Dub's truck. I highly doubt they would say that so many years later unless they really believed this to be true. Dub's truck looks like it was dumped to get it away from the scene and not like he fled, especially since he left so much behind.


My problems.. 1) The blood. 2) Dub wasn't that smart. 3) Chance was.. 9? And Latricia was shot SIX TIMES in the head.

Sorry.. That one is too far out there for me to get on board with.

Yeah... You debunked that one perfectly. Couldn't agree more. :D

The problem with that theory is that authorities have now determined that Dub and Chance were victims.

I'm still think that this may have been a ploy by the investigators to try and get one of Dub's family members to talk and say what actually happened. They did something similar in the Moses Lall and Lila Buerattan segment with Harry Gobin. Implored him to come forward but made note that he was not a suspect but rather a key witness in their disappearance.

I fully believe that Dub and Chance are victims themselves and someone else killed all three of them.

I don't agree with the assessment that Chance had anything to do with Latricia's murder. If he was so upset about the arguing, he would have called up his mother and said, "Mom, daddy and Trish are fighting and I want to come home" and Gay would have picked up her son.

I still feel that Lee finally snapped and killed Latricia. He then fled with Chance. I also feel that Lee might have killed his own son so he wouldn't blab, and/or that Chance was hysterical about what he saw and Lee shot him to shut him up.

The drug trafficking theory is a good point and so is Latricia's ex-husband possibly being involved. What I want to know is if he was involved, what was the motive and was their divorce amicable?

I agree about Chance. Nine year old kids snapping and shooting someone, while not unheard of, is extremely rare. I can't imagine if Chance was getting that close to doing something like that to Letricia he would have asked his mother to let him stay there. Just doesn't add up. If kids do that its usually because of years of abuse. There is nothing to indicate Letricia was abusive to Chance, and had she ever been Dub would never have stood for that. By all accounts he loved Chance.

As for Dub killing her, can't imagine the police coming out and ruling him out as a suspect if they didn't have good reason. My guess is it was about the blood in Dub's truck.

I agree about Chance. Nine year old kids snapping and shooting someone, while not unheard of, is extremely rare. I can't imagine if Chance was getting that close to doing something like that to Letricia he would have asked his mother to let him stay there. Just doesn't add up. If kids do that its usually because of years of abuse. There is nothing to indicate Letricia was abusive to Chance, and had she ever been Dub would never have stood for that. By all accounts he loved Chance.

As for Dub killing her, can't imagine the police coming out and ruling him out as a suspect if they didn't have good reason. My guess is it was about the blood in Dub's truck.
Yeah I believe it will be discovered that Dub and Chance’s blood was found. This case was always so bizarre. I think an ex committed this crime

I just listened to the "The Trail Went Cold" podcast episode about this case. It's always haunted me. Based on the Unsolved Mysteries segment, I was convinced for years that Dub was guilty, that he'd killed Latricia and Chance in a rage. I was surprised when the evidence came out years later that Dub and Chance were most likely also victims. I believe they have a strong suspect, but not enough evidence to charge him. I'm just wondering where Dub and Chance are now. If they could be found, they might be able to gather enough evidence to finally charge someone.

My guess is the real killer killed Dub as a “frame” type and also had to kill him since he was there.

It's now been over 6 years since the Texas Rangers put out their bizarre press release:

On December 27, 1993, White, 38, was found deceased in her home in McMahan, Texas; she had been shot. White was the mother of two and recently divorced. At the time of her death, White had guests– Lee Wackerhagen and his 9-year-old son – staying with her during the holidays. Both Wackerhagen and his son Chance have been missing since the day of the murder, and investigators now have evidence that both males also were victims of foul play. Investigators found nothing in the home appeared to be missing and believe that this murder was most likely a crime of passion the committed by someone closely associated to one or more of the victims.

What evidence is there? This (https://www.frontpagedetectives.com/p/cold-case-texas-murder-family-search-investigation) article mentions the following:

Latricia's ex-husband admitted he had gone to the house on the last day she was confirmed alive, claiming to be going there to retrieve something one of the children had left behind. He claimed nobody answered the door when he called. When police spoke to Latricia's family after her murder, they pointed the finger at her ex-husband, something largely ignored by investigators.

In their belief that the case was simple and their eagerness to blame Dub, police had fallen into the trap. Tunnel vision meant that no other theory was considered by investigators, with new evidence now showing that the call made from Wackerhagen's truck that was believed to confirm proof of life had in fact been made a full year before the killing of Latricia.

Latricia's family being suspicious of the ex-husband, him showing up the day prior to the murders, and evidence that the phone calls placed from Dub's truck originally believed to be on the night of the murder now being proven to have been placed a year prior, is still not enough evidence to rule out Dub. The Texas Dept of Public Safety also said this in their press release:

Investigators found nothing in the home appeared to be missing and believe that this murder was most likely a crime of passion committed by someone closely associated to one or more of the victims.

The problem with this, is that things were missing from the house. Dub's wallet, checkbook, and presents were found in his truck. Some of the presents were opened, while others were not. Nothing in the home suggested a struggle. No blood from Dub or Chance was found inside the residence. None of the publicly revealed new evidence is enough to sway me away from the possibility of Dub being the perpetrator.

I will say that after discussing the recent revelations in the Mike Riemer/Diana Robertson case, and how the police still believe Riemer to be the one responsible for Diana's murder despite finding his fully intact skull in 2011, it seems weird to me that law enforcement would change their minds in this instance without Dub or Chance's remains being found.

None of the publicly revealed new evidence is enough to sway me away from the possibility of Dub being the perpetrator.

I will say that after discussing the recent revelations in the Mike Riemer/Diana Robertson case, and how the police still believe Riemer to be the one responsible for Diana's murder despite finding his fully intact skull in 2011, it seems weird to me that law enforcement would change their minds in this instance without Dub or Chance's remains being found.

Key word.. possibility.

My problem with it.. Dub and Chance would basically have to be hiding in plain sight for the past.. 30 years? or have left the country. Which.. Sorry, I don't see Dub having the sophistication to pull the latter off.

As for the Riemer case.. I had to read on that one. I'd say it's 50/50. Finding his skull means nothing. There's zero to say that he didn't kill her, the people camping where he had his traps and then kill himself. Perhaps not in that order, other than him being last of course. BUT.. That doesn't explain how Crystal wound up at the mall/deaprtment store.

But, it's just as plausible that another party killed all of them.

Overall on that one. I'd lean more towards a third party simply because of Crystal winding up where she did. Seems.. A kinda long shot that Riemer would take her to the department store, drop her off, then go BACK out into the woods and off himself.

But.. In a way.. The more I think on it.. That does make sense. Your run of the mill serial killer GENERALLY won't have the moral values to say "Oh, well.. I'll leave this little girl alive and drop her off at the store and HOPE that she's not old enough to give the police details about who I am".. That seems more like something that a parent would do. i can more see Riemer killing the three, dropping his daughter at the store, then going back and offing himself before I can see a random serial killer sparing her.

Just saying.. The serial killer who would spare a child.. That.. NORMALLY doesn't matter to them.

My problem with it.. Dub and Chance would basically have to be hiding in plain sight for the past.. 30 years? or have left the country. Which.. Sorry, I don't see Dub having the sophistication to pull the latter off.

Not if they both are dead as the result of a murder/suicide.

Not if they both are dead as the result of a murder/suicide.

Possible. We know that.. Well, 'know' that Chance's blood was found in the truck, if internet sources are to be believed.. So, that wound indicate that, if you're right, Chance was either killed at the house and then taken to a site where Dub then offed himself, or killed along the route.

But.. The hole I see in that is.. First, much easier to move him when he's alive, but.. He wasn't a large kid. So, possible.

But, if it was a murder/suicide.. Dub's body would.. Be at least somewhat near the truck, right? On the surface somewhere. And.. In theory, that entire area was searched. Not saying that people can't miss a dead body.. But.. This was Austin. I mean, we're not talking a remote area of Wyoming or something like that. A pretty confined area.

So far as I know, no reports of stolen vehicles near Dub's truck. I don't see any indication that, if Dub did this.. it was planned. If he did it.. It was a heat of the moment thing.. Which means, he didn't have getaway vehicles lined up and things like that.

Can we say the same about the ex-husband? I don't know.

Not if they both are dead as the result of a murder/suicide.

There are three problems I have with this......1) Dub's truck was found in a high-crime area, not in some remote, middle-of-nowhere location, 2) Neither his, nor Chance's bodies have ever been found (nor has a possible murder weapon) and 3) there was no blood trail leading away from the truck (that could possibly point to Dub's/Chance's bodies being moved or dumped elsewhere).

Had his truck been found somewhere else, yeah, the bodies disappearing/being overlooked *could* make some sense, same for the murder weapon.

This was a comparatively confined area though. For his truck to appear there and absolutely *no* trace of him, Chance or any possible weapon to be found doesn't fit a murder/suicide scenario. It's more indicative of someone else dumping the truck there, then taking the bodies and dumping them someplace else.

Now if you focus on the 10 minute phone call that was traced back to Dub's truck, you could possibly make the case that Dub killed Latricia, possibly killed Chance and then called someone up to help him dispose of Chance's body and/or help him escape.

I personally don't think Dub's that smart. If it was a crime of passion and he did it on the fly, the fact that he's remained undetected for over 30yrs makes him *incredibly* lucky.

If I was an investigator and had a hunch that Dub did it, then coming forward like the authorities here did, and claiming Dub was a victim instead of a possible suspect *could* get the family to open up (they'd be the only ones who could help him not only clean up in the aftermath, but remain undetected after all this time)

There are three problems I have with this......1) Dub's truck was found in a high-crime area, not in some remote, middle-of-nowhere location, 2) Neither his, nor Chance's bodies have ever been found (nor has a possible murder weapon) and 3) there was no blood trail leading away from the truck (that could possibly point to Dub's/Chance's bodies being moved or dumped elsewhere).

Had his truck been found somewhere else, yeah, the bodies disappearing/being overlooked *could* make some sense, same for the murder weapon.

This was a comparatively confined area though. For his truck to appear there and absolutely *no* trace of him, Chance or any possible weapon to be found doesn't fit a murder/suicide scenario. It's more indicative of someone else dumping the truck there, then taking the bodies and dumping them someplace else.

Now if you focus on the 10 minute phone call that was traced back to Dub's truck, you could possibly make the case that Dub killed Latricia, possibly killed Chance and then called someone up to help him dispose of Chance's body and/or help him escape.

I personally don't think Dub's that smart. If it was a crime of passion and he did it on the fly, the fact that he's remained undetected for over 30yrs makes him *incredibly* lucky.

If I was an investigator and had a hunch that Dub did it, then coming forward like the authorities here did, and claiming Dub was a victim instead of a possible suspect *could* get the family to open up (they'd be the only ones who could help him not only clean up in the aftermath, but remain undetected after all this time)

Phone call? I haven't heard that one, but this was 1993.. While cell phones were certainly around.. as i recall, they were pretty dang expensive at the time. Not a whole lot of people had them.

Read up on that.. How in the hell could they not find out who the call was made to?

anyway.. Is any of Dub's family still alive? I know his dad offed himself a few years after they went missing.

they suspect Latricia's ex husband because she was in custody dispute with him.

There are three problems I have with this......1) Dub's truck was found in a high-crime area, not in some remote, middle-of-nowhere location, 2) Neither his, nor Chance's bodies have ever been found (nor has a possible murder weapon) and 3) there was no blood trail leading away from the truck (that could possibly point to Dub's/Chance's bodies being moved or dumped elsewhere).

-Dub could have killed Chance, dumped his body, and then ditched his truck before taking off. Blood being found on the presents means someone was bleeding in that truck at some point.

-The murder weapon would presumably be the same gun that was used to murder Latricia. And if Dub committed suicide, that's why it's never been found. Because he hasn't been found.

-No blood trail leading away from the truck, IMO, points more to Dub's involvement than someone else.

His truck was found near an airport (long since gone and turned into a community). High crime area or not, an airport would have taxis around that area. He could have taken one to virtually anywhere. As for Dub not being that smart, I don't think he would have to be. And if we are to assume that Dub was a victim himself, would this other person (Latricia's ex-husband) have been that smart to murder 3 people and essentially make 2 of them disappear forever? And also do this all by himself or with someone that has never spoken about it for over 30 years?

-Dub could have killed Chance, dumped his body, and then ditched his truck before taking off. Blood being found on the presents means someone was bleeding in that truck at some point.

-The murder weapon would presumably be the same gun that was used to murder Latricia. And if Dub committed suicide, that's why it's never been found. Because he hasn't been found.

-No blood trail leading away from the truck, IMO, points more to Dub's involvement than someone else.

His truck was found near an airport (long since gone and turned into a community). High crime area or not, an airport would have taxis around that area. He could have taken one to virtually anywhere. As for Dub not being that smart, I don't think he would have to be. And if we are to assume that Dub was a victim himself, would this other person (Latricia's ex-husband) have been that smart to murder 3 people and essentially make 2 of them disappear forever? And also do this all by himself or with someone that has never spoken about it for over 30 years?

One would think that the police would have talked to the taxi companies at the time and shown his picture.. Not to mention that his pic was all over the news.

you'd just think a taxi driver would have come forward had this happened.

It's what is annoying about this case. Your theory is just as good as any other. I lean away from it because I just don't see Dub having the ability to pull this off.. BUT.. You never know.

We can't even really place Dub or Chance in the truck when it left the house. We know, apparently, since they say it's Chance's blood in the truck that he was in there at some point.. But, we don't know when or for how long or the route the truck took to wind up in its final location.

-Dub could have killed Chance, dumped his body, and then ditched his truck before taking off. Blood being found on the presents means someone was bleeding in that truck at some point.

-The murder weapon would presumably be the same gun that was used to murder Latricia. And if Dub committed suicide, that's why it's never been found. Because he hasn't been found.

-No blood trail leading away from the truck, IMO, points more to Dub's involvement than someone else.

His truck was found near an airport (long since gone and turned into a community). High crime area or not, an airport would have taxis around that area. He could have taken one to virtually anywhere. As for Dub not being that smart, I don't think he would have to be. And if we are to assume that Dub was a victim himself, would this other person (Latricia's ex-husband) have been that smart to murder 3 people and essentially make 2 of them disappear forever? And also do this all by himself or with someone that has never spoken about it for over 30 years?

Hard to say since we don't really know anything about Letricia's ex. He could have been ex military or police for all we know and possibly very smart when it comes to hiding or getting away with murder.

And also when exactly was Letricia thought to have been killed? i know that time of death estimates have sometimes been off. But I can't recall how long they estimated she had been lying there when her dad found her. Had she been shot that day or the night before? Did any of Letricia's neighbors hear the shots? When exactly she was shot may tell a lot.

I think one possible scenario is Letricia's ex may have went to her house and shot her, and Dub and Chance may have been out but came home and interrupted the murder as he was leaving, Chance goes back and discovers Letricia's body while the killer is hiding in the closet which accounts for his footprint in her blood. He pops out and grabs Chance, maybe holds a gun on him forcing Dub and Chance both out of the house at gunpoint. Somewhere along the way shoots them both, loads the bodies in the back of the truck accounting for the blood on the Christmas presents, dumps the bodies in one of the ponds near there, takes the truck to the airport and abandons it. Getting rid of them both might have been an improvise so ppl would think Dub had done it. Letricia's ex may have known there was tension between them.

Of course this is sheer speculation, but we know that Dub loved Chance and was unlikely to murder him and apparently his blood was in the truck too indicating he was hurt at some point. It could not have been from a struggle with Letricia as she was shot to death in her sleep. and its unlikely Letricia would have went to sleep around Dub if he was angry enough to shoot her six times.

What I wonder though is did anyone see any of the three of them the day Letricia's body was found? We know Letricia's dad found her body late in the next day after she was seen at the restaurant but its not clear if anyone saw any of the three that day.

I think one possible scenario is Letricia's ex may have went to her house and shot her, and Dub and Chance may have been out but came home and interrupted the murder as he was leaving, Chance goes back and discovers Letricia's body while the killer is hiding in the closet which accounts for his footprint in her blood. He pops out and grabs Chance, maybe holds a gun on him forcing Dub and Chance both out of the house at gunpoint. Somewhere along the way shoots them both, loads the bodies in the back of the truck accounting for the blood on the Christmas presents, dumps the bodies in one of the ponds near there, takes the truck to the airport and abandons it. Getting rid of them both might have been an improvise so ppl would think Dub had done it. Letricia's ex may have known there was tension between them.

IMO, this is too much work for one guy to have pulled off if in fact Dub was a victim. He takes them both out of the house at gunpoint, uses Dub's truck as transportation presumably leaving his behind at the crime scene to then dump Dub's truck in a high crime area to throw off investigators. If he really wanted to set up Dub as the murderer, he could have left it at the airport. Then Dub could be anywhere.

Or, if Dub is the culprit, he's clearly not thinking rationally after murdering Latricia and his son, so in desperation he dumps the truck in a high crime area and then hikes it out of there to God knows where to off himself. This, IMO, is a much more believable scenario given what we currently know.

IMO, this is too much work for one guy to have pulled off if in fact Dub was a victim. He takes them both out of the house at gunpoint, uses Dub's truck as transportation presumably leaving his behind at the crime scene to then dump Dub's truck in a high crime area to throw off investigators. If he really wanted to set up Dub as the murderer, he could have left it at the airport. Then Dub could be anywhere.

Or, if Dub is the culprit, he's clearly not thinking rationally after murdering Latricia and his son, so in desperation he dumps the truck in a high crime area and then hikes it out of there to God knows where to off himself. This, IMO, is a much more believable scenario given what we currently know.

Umm.. Aren't you arguing that Dub pulled this off all by himself? Basically the exact same thing, with the exception of killing Chance? And throw the added difficulty of covering things up so that you can't say 100% that he did it AND pull off a disappearing act that would make David Copperfield green with envy?

Umm.. Aren't you arguing that Dub pulled this off all by himself? Basically the exact same thing, with the exception of killing Chance? And throw the added difficulty of covering things up so that you can't say 100% that he did it AND pull off a disappearing act that would make David Copperfield green with envy?

Umm...it's easier for one man to murder and dispose of a 9 year old before offing himself than it would be for one man to subdue and then murder a 9 year old as well as a 6'3" 250 lbs. man, and then dispose of their bodies in such a way that neither one of them has ever been found, while successfully dumping the man's vehicle in a location near an airport to throw off the investigation and get lucky enough to where neither one of their bodies has ever been found. This person blasts Latricia 6 times in the house, presumably alerting Chance & Dub, and then has the idea to take both of them out of the house at gunpoint...and then they magically just abide by every command this shadow person gives them before said person takes them either in his vehicle (which would require him to return to the scene of Latricia's murder to retrieve Dub's truck) or Dub's vehicle (which would leave his vehicle at the scene of Latricia's murder) ultimately kills them both away from the residence. Or there is a much simpler explanation: the man who was present at the scene, who had been in a very tumultuous relationship with the victim, who then disappeared with his son was the one who did it.

I mean Brad Bishop and Robert Fisher pulled it off, and I presume both of those men to be dead and have committed suicide.

Umm...it's easier for one man to murder and dispose of a 9 year old before offing himself than it would be for one man to subdue and then murder a 9 year old as well as a 6'3" 250 lbs. man, and then dispose of their bodies in such a way that neither one of them has ever been found, while successfully dumping the man's vehicle in a location near an airport to throw off the investigation and get lucky enough to where neither one of their bodies has ever been found. This person blasts Latricia 6 times in the house, presumably alerting Chance & Dub, and then has the idea to take both of them out of the house at gunpoint...and then they magically just abide by every command this shadow person gives them before said person takes them either in his vehicle (which would require him to return to the scene of Latricia's murder to retrieve Dub's truck) or Dub's vehicle (which would leave his vehicle at the scene of Latricia's murder) ultimately kills them both away from the residence. Or there is a much simpler explanation: the man who was present at the scene, who had been in a very tumultuous relationship with the victim, who then disappeared with his son was the one who did it.

I mean Brad Bishop and Robert Fisher pulled it off, and I presume both of those men to be dead and have committed suicide.

Yeah, but you're arguing (or seem to be) that Dub killed himself in a location where his body can't be found. That's.. Pretty difficult. I mean, you can't hide yourself after you're dead. Or that he's still alive. Both of which.. Are a reach in my eyes. Now, who knows.. He could have found a cave or something..

He also couldn't dump the vehicle after he killed himself. So.. Unless we're going with him calling a cab and going somewhere else to off himself... Or the 'still alive' theory, of course.

Now.. The other theory, that her ex husband did it.

Kills them both at the house. Loads them in Dub's truck. Hauls them god knows where, buries them.. Then drops the truck off where it's found. That theory.. Adds up and has the advantage of people looking for them in the wrong spot.

Look.. I'm not saying you're wrong.. I can't quite buy into your theory as strong, but.. Stranger things have happened. One issue that I have.. I cannot see Dub killing Chance. Ok, he blows his top and kills Latricia.. I could get behind that.. But.. He seemed to really love his son. Even his ex wife said that, as I recall. Plus, the police found evidence that makes them think that Dub and Chance were killed as well. We don't know what that evidence is.. But.. While I certainly appreciate not believing everything you're told.. You certainly have to give some weight to it. Unfortunately, we don't know what this evidence they found was.. I suspect that it is DNA testing that shows the blood found in the truck is a mix of Dub and Chance.

So.. Let me ask you this.. If you found out that the blood in the truck was a mix. And that the quantities would indicate death.. Would you still suspect Dub?

I kinda have to believe that's the evidence they refer to.. 2016 would be about right for DNA testing to have been done.

Yeah, but you're arguing (or seem to be) that Dub killed himself in a location where his body can't be found. That's.. Pretty difficult. I mean, you can't hide yourself after you're dead. Or that he's still alive. Both of which.. Are a reach in my eyes. Now, who knows.. He could have found a cave or something..

Robert Fisher and Brad Bishop, IMO, committed suicide. Neither of there remains have been found.

He also couldn't dump the vehicle after he killed himself. So.. Unless we're going with him calling a cab and going somewhere else to off himself... Or the 'still alive' theory, of course.

He ditches the vehicle, leaves the area, and kills himself.

Kills them both at the house. Loads them in Dub's truck. Hauls them god knows where, buries them.. Then drops the truck off where it's found. That theory.. Adds up and has the advantage of people looking for them in the wrong spot.

Risks hanging around too long after shooting Latricia 6 times and then Dub and Chance an unknown number of times and leaves zero trace of Dub's blood or Chance's blood in the house anywhere outside of Latricia's bedroom. Then they are able to leave no traces of blood from the residence outside to the Dub's truck, dispose of their bodies in a way that hasn't been found, come back and pick up Dub's truck and dump it, and then come back to the scene to retrieve their vehicle to leave. Impossible.

While I certainly appreciate not believing everything you're told.. You certainly have to give some weight to it.

We were told that Roger Dean's murderer was a white man for 30 some years despite an eyewitness describing him as black. I just can't get behind their sudden reversal after all of these years thinking Dub was a suspect to suddenly say, "oh wait, never mind, we were wrong, he's a victim" without an arrest or even a hint that they have a different prime suspect.

So.. Let me ask you this.. If you found out that the blood in the truck was a mix. And that the quantities would indicate death.. Would you still suspect Dub?

Law enforcement at the time said the amount of blood found in the truck would be from a non-life threatening wound. So it means nothing if it was Dub's blood.

I kinda have to believe that's the evidence they refer to.. 2016 would be about right for DNA testing to have been done.

Then why not say what the results were? If the blood isn't Dub's and isn't Chance, why wouldn't they just come out and say it?

IMO, this is too much work for one guy to have pulled off if in fact Dub was a victim. He takes them both out of the house at gunpoint, uses Dub's truck as transportation presumably leaving his behind at the crime scene to then dump Dub's truck in a high crime area to throw off investigators. If he really wanted to set up Dub as the murderer, he could have left it at the airport. Then Dub could be anywhere.

Or, if Dub is the culprit, he's clearly not thinking rationally after murdering Latricia and his son, so in desperation he dumps the truck in a high crime area and then hikes it out of there to God knows where to off himself. This, IMO, is a much more believable scenario given what we currently know.

i'm not saying Dub definitely didn't do it, he still very well could have. But something was off about the whole thing from the beginning, just a gut feeling.

This is probably one of the most frustrating cases ever profiled on UM, because it seems like every fact of the case raises more questions than answers, and it seems like every possible scenario of what exactly happened has holes in it, to where its hard to guess.

We know Letricia was shot six times in the head, which is overkill and probably a crime of passion. it made Dub a likely suspect right off because of the tenuous nature of their relationship. But Letricia was apparently shot in her sleep. If she had a huge fight with Dub to where he was mad enough to kill her, it seems unlikely she would go to sleep in his presence. Dub did not sound like someone who could hide his emotions very well to where he would leave then go back and do a premeditated murder later. of course anything is possible.

Second problem is the blood in dub's truck, given what the police are saying, seems likely it belonged to both Dub and Chance. But no blood of theirs was found in Letricia's house, so this had to be the result of a second altercation somewhere else. But where and how?

If Dub did it, then why was he bleeding as the result of this? It couldn't have been the result of the shooting of Letricia as there was no struggle there she was shot in her sleep. And it seems unlikely his nine year old son injured him enough to draw blood assuming Dub killed him and somehow got injured in the process.

In addition, neither Dub nor Letricia was known to own a 22 caliber pistol. Now none of these things prove Dub's innocence, but they are problematic.

Of course, a third party killing them all has problems as well. Assuming someone else shot Letricia, where was Dub when it happened? If you are invading a house to murder a woman, and you use all six bullets to pump into her, it obviously means you are not concerned about contending with her 6'5 250 pound boyfriend. Leading me to believe either Dub wasn't there at the time, or he was already dead or unconscious. Cause it seems obvious whoever killed her had to contend with Dub first. and Chance's footprints being in the blood makes it even more confusing. It makes you wonder if he was the one who shot her though I have my doubts. He obviously couldn't get ahold of a gun at nine years old unless it belonged to Dub or Letricia. But we know he had to have found her body or been present when it happened . Again Dub by all accounts loved Chance. If he was going to kill her why let his son even witness it? And like I said, him flying off the handle and killing Letricia in a fit of rage seems unlikely if she was secure enough to go to sleep in her presence.

My scenario I outlined above was basically the only one i can think of where it was a third party. So its the closest guess I can make to what happened. I got to many problems with Dub being the killer to devise a scenario there. mostly for the reasons above.

I think the questions I have are:

1. Was the blood in the truck both Dub's and Chance's and could it have been the result of a serious injury? Given what the authorities are saying about believing they are victims, I'd have to say yes.

2. Were there any fingerprints found in Dub's truck of anyone other than him, Chance, or a family member?

3. Was the seat in Dub's truck adjusted to where he would feel comfortable driving it? This would not prove anything, but it could give a good idea if he was the one who parked the truck where it was found.

4. Did anyone see or hear from Dub, Chance, or Letricia on the day her body was found or was the last sighting really in the diner the night before?

If these questions could be answered it would tell a lot.

Was the blood in the truck both Dub's and Chance's and could it have been the result of a serious injury? Given what the authorities are saying about believing they are victims, I'd have to say yes.

The Sheriff's exact quote on UM was, "The blood type was not the same as our victim. So we feel that someone else was injured. Not seriously, but someone else was injured."

To me, the blood was not enough of a quantity to suggest someone (or multiple people) had been in the bed of the truck bleeding profusely. Also, blood tests were inconclusive for Dub and Chance being the contributor of the blood.

Were there any fingerprints found in Dub's truck of anyone other than him, Chance, or a family member?

Doubtful, or there probably would have been an arrest. Especially if one of the prints matched Latricia's ex-husband. Also, Chance's mother (the one who said she was "scared to death" of Dub) has been fairly active online and has never mentioned this, so I don't think anything has been found.

Was the seat in Dub's truck adjusted to where he would feel comfortable driving it? This would not prove anything, but it could give a good idea if he was the one who parked the truck where it was found.

My guess is that it was in the position it was normally in, or that would have been a point that Dub's family could have brought up to prove he wasn't the killer.

Did anyone see or hear from Dub, Chance, or Letricia on the day her body was found or was the last sighting really in the diner the night before?

The diner was the last time anyone saw all three of them alive.

As far as I know, the only evidence they have released publicly is that nothing from the home was taken (indicating Dub fleeing) and that the phone call placed from Dub's truck did not take place on the night of the murder, but a year prior. IMO, until they find Dub's body, he's still the prime suspect in this case. But it wouldn't shock me if someone else was responsible. My biggest problem with an unknown person being responsible is why leave Latricia's body behind but move Dub's? It would have been easier to remove Latricia and Chance from the scene and leave Dub's body behind.

I also found this archived article (https://web.archive.org/web/20100625132808/http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/crime/New-hope-for-a-Caldwell-Co-cold-case) from 2010. Some highlights:

The day after Christmas, Latrica's father found his daughter dead inside her home on the family's property. At first Caldwell County investigators did not realize they had a homicide on their hands.

"It was cleaned up, somebody had taken the time to clean something up before they left," said Caldwell County Sheriff Dan Law.

Seems awful risky for an unknown person to take the time to clean up the crime scene.

Gomez and his team of detectives in Austin now have a chance to crack the case. They hope DNA testing currently being done at the University of North Texas crime lab will reveal if the blood belongs to Lee or Chance. Investigators also came across records of a 10-minute call made from the mounted cell phone in Lee's truck after Latrica's body was found.

"There's no question in our mind that Lee Wackerhagen was at least alive several days later," said Gomez.

This phone call allegedly was found to have been placed well over a year before the murder. But what other evidence do they have to think he was alive for several days after the murder?

Several new discoveries have peaked the US Marshals' interest and given them reason to believe he had help escaping. The Wackerhagen family posted an obituary in the local paper several years after Lee's disappearance.

"It just comes right at us, that you know, if you want to make somebody dead, you put an obituary in the paper," said Gomez.

Seems weird to me that the US Marshals would be so adamant that Dub was responsible back in 2010, and then 6 years later the Texas DPS puts out that statement saying that they have uncovered evidence that Dub and Chance were both victims.

In addition, neither Dub nor Letricia was known to own a 22 caliber pistol. Now none of these things prove Dub's innocence, but they are problematic.


If Dub was the killer and the authorities were sincere in their belief that he did it, then I would think they'd put in at least a little effort to try and connect Dub to this weapon (just like the Denver police did after Mark Groezinger was killed). Have we heard anything definitely attributing this mystery .22 to Dub??

If Dub was the killer and the authorities were sincere in their belief that he did it, then I would think they'd put in at least a little effort to try and connect Dub to this weapon (just like the Denver police did after Mark Groezinger was killed). Have we heard anything definitely attributing this mystery .22 to Dub??

Not that I know of. I've never heard anyone say one way or another.

I think that not being able to connect a .22 caliber weapon used for the murder to either Dub nor Letricia is problematic, because if Dub flew off the handle and killed her he would have done it with whatever was handy seems like. Dub was known to have owned other firearms but not a '22 so why wouldn't he just use one of them? and the gun should be able to be traced to Letricia's house if someone in that household did it. Otherwise its likely someone else shot her.

Then again, we may be overthinking all this. Dub could have bought the gun from a friend or from a gun show which were plentiful in Texas and no one knew about it. Maybe he really did shoot her and has been in hiding all this time and he has more brains than we give him credit for. We simply don't have the info to know for sure. But the bottom line is Dub's girlfriend was murdered in cold blood, he disappeared, and it would have been difficult to move his body but that doesn't mean it could not have been done. And his son is missing too.

the truth is, we just don't know enough to say for certain. I'm about 60-40 that Dub was a victim rather than the killer, primarily because of the statement from the authorities and the blood in his truck. But he could still have done it.

I think the problem with this case is the evidence and facts are segmented between crime scenes and there simply is to many missing pieces. every possible scenario of what happened has holes in it, but the holes are not enough to disprove each scenario. Hopefully one day the truth will finally come out and the families of the three people can finally have some closure. Perhaps the authorities know more than they are telling and may be closer to solving it, we simply don't know for sure.

Dub was known to have owned other firearms but not a '22 so why wouldn't he just use one of them? and the gun should be able to be traced to Letricia's house if someone in that household did it. Otherwise its likely someone else shot her.

This is not true. There has never been confirmation that neither Dub or Latricia had access to a .22, and if they didn't, don't you think UM and Dub's family would have mentioned this as another point in favor as to how Dub couldn't have possibly committed the crime? The complete silence about the gun, much like the Tony Lombardi segment, makes me think one or both of them had access to one.

I think the problem with this case is the evidence and facts are segmented between crime scenes and there simply is to many missing pieces. every possible scenario of what happened has holes in it, but the holes are not enough to disprove each scenario. Hopefully one day the truth will finally come out and the families of the three people can finally have some closure. Perhaps the authorities know more than they are telling and may be closer to solving it, we simply don't know for sure.

I agree that there is no "smoking gun" to favor one scenario over the other. However, the crime scene was cleaned up. For me, there are more leaps in logic for an unknown killer to have been involved instead of Dub. And I don't think Dub is alive and hiding. He's dead.

the police think it is latricias ex-husband because she was in a custody dispute with him. If that was true why kill dub and chance , she is one the ex is battling over custody with.

I agree that there is no "smoking gun" to favor one scenario over the other. However, the crime scene was cleaned up. For me, there are more leaps in logic for an unknown killer to have been involved instead of Dub. And I don't think Dub is alive and hiding. He's dead.

So I gather that you think he killed them and then went off and committed suicide? that of course is plausible as far as it goes. But it begs the question, why bother to clean up the crime scene if all he was going to do was go off and kill himself? Not only that, but if he was going to kill himself then that weakens his motive to kill Chance as well who by all accounts he loved, even people who didn't like him doubted he'd harm his son. the only motive he'd likely have for harming Chance is to eliminate a witness and with a suicide that is gone. Seems like he might have spared his son, maybe dropped him off somewhere safe then went off and did it.

Even if Dub was going to go on the run cleaning up the crime scene still make little sense. He had to know by disappearing he would be the prime suspect regardless. If Dub shot Letricia, wouldn't it have made more sense to move her body out of the house and hide it, then clean up the crime scene and claim she ran off with another guy or something like that? That would have made more sense than simply leaving her there and going on the run. In fact, there were at least three other Unsolved Mysteries cases where men did that very thing to their significant other, or were suspected of it. Stephen Marfeo was one, and one guy named Mark can't think of his last name. I think one was proven to have done it, again can't remember the names but they found the woman's remains buried near the house. His kid had even witnessed it. All these guys had jealousy issues like Dub. So it stands to reason he might have used the same MO.

Of course, the one problem is Chance was obviously there and witnessed the whole thing so Dub may not have had that as an option. But still, leaving Letricia there and cleaning up the rest of the scene would have made far more sense for a third party than it would have Dub for the reasons stated above. More particularly, it makes more sense for a third party to want to clean up his presence at the scene than it would for Dub to do that knowing he was either committing suicide or going on the run. And you have a suspect with a motive in Letricia's ex who was known to be at her house that day and I think it is entirely possible he was seen near her house, possibly concocting a legit reason to be there. And Dub would make the perfect scapegoat to frame for the murder, since everyone knew he and Letricia had a somewhat tenuous relationship and Dub had a bad temper.

Again, I'm not definitively saying Dub didn't do it. But there is a lot that doesn't add up.

As for the gun you may be right. But nothing has been said either way, and the fact that the authorities now seem to believe Dub was a victim, it makes you wonder if they never were able to connect a .22 caliber pistol with that household.

the police think it is latricias ex-husband because she was in a custody dispute with him. If that was true why kill dub and chance , she is one the ex is battling over custody with.

Its possible he had a grudge against Dub too, or he might have just been in the way. As for Chance, remember he wasn't supposed to be there. Entirely possible he was just collateral damage and in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So I gather that you think he killed them and then went off and committed suicide? that of course is plausible as far as it goes. But it begs the question, why bother to clean up the crime scene if all he was going to do was go off and kill himself? Not only that, but if he was going to kill himself then that weakens his motive to kill Chance as well who by all accounts he loved, even people who didn't like him doubted he'd harm his son. the only motive he'd likely have for harming Chance is to eliminate a witness and with a suicide that is gone. Seems like he might have spared his son, maybe dropped him off somewhere safe then went off and did it.

Desperation. Maybe he thought he could live life on the lam only to realize hours, days, weeks, etc. later that it wasn't plausible. His ex-wife said she was deathly afraid of Dub. To me, that's more than enough reason to think he could kill his son if he thought he had no other choice than to do so.

Even if Dub was going to go on the run cleaning up the crime scene still make little sense. He had to know by disappearing he would be the prime suspect regardless. If Dub shot Letricia, wouldn't it have made more sense to move her body out of the house and hide it, then clean up the crime scene and claim she ran off with another guy or something like that? That would have made more sense than simply leaving her there and going on the run. In fact, there were at least three other Unsolved Mysteries cases where men did that very thing to their significant other, or were suspected of it. Stephen Marfeo was one, and one guy named Mark can't think of his last name. I think one was proven to have done it, again can't remember the names but they found the woman's remains buried near the house. His kid had even witnessed it. All these guys had jealousy issues like Dub. So it stands to reason he might have used the same MO.

IMO, if an unknown third party was the killer, why not leave Dub at the residence and ditch Latricia and Chance's bodies? Why not try to frame Latricia?

Of course, the one problem is Chance was obviously there and witnessed the whole thing so Dub may not have had that as an option. But still, leaving Letricia there and cleaning up the rest of the scene would have made far more sense for a third party than it would have Dub for the reasons stated above. More particularly, it makes more sense for a third party to want to clean up his presence at the scene than it would for Dub to do that knowing he was either committing suicide or going on the run. And you have a suspect with a motive in Letricia's ex who was known to be at her house that day and I think it is entirely possible he was seen near her house, possibly concocting a legit reason to be there. And Dub would make the perfect scapegoat to frame for the murder, since everyone knew he and Letricia had a somewhat tenuous relationship and Dub had a bad temper.

Latricia would be easier to remove from the house, not Dub. Someone who lived at the residence would make more sense to stick around and clean up the crime scene, not someone who wasn't supposed to be there. Latricia was shot in her bed. Where was Dub and why wasn't there any signs of a struggle? The killer could have left Dub and Chance at the residence and taken Latricia out of the house in an effort to frame her for the murder. An unknown third party whose main target being Latricia, sure did an awful lot of things to frame Dub.

Desperation. Maybe he thought he could live life on the lam only to realize hours, days, weeks, etc. later that it wasn't plausible. His ex-wife said she was deathly afraid of Dub. To me, that's more than enough reason to think he could kill his son if he thought he had no other choice than to do so.



IMO, if an unknown third party was the killer, why not leave Dub at the residence and ditch Latricia and Chance's bodies? Why not try to frame Latricia?



Latricia would be easier to remove from the house, not Dub. Someone who lived at the residence would make more sense to stick around and clean up the crime scene, not someone who wasn't supposed to be there. Latricia was shot in her bed. Where was Dub and why wasn't there any signs of a struggle? The killer could have left Dub and Chance at the residence and taken Latricia out of the house in an effort to frame her for the murder. An unknown third party whose main target being Latricia, sure did an awful lot of things to frame Dub.

With Latricia's body being left in the house, cleaning up the scene a bit is slightly problematic. IMO it seems out of character for a guy like Dub. If a guy with a hair trigger temper, didn't have much of a plan beyond killing himself/his son when things didn't work out, why would he bother doing any cleaning in the first place??

On the flipside too, if it was a third party responsible and the party's intention was to frame Dub, then leaving Latricia's body behind would be the problematic part (as a cleaned-up crime scene & no body would go a long ways towards showing premeditation on Dub's part).

Then why not say what the results were? If the blood isn't Dub's and isn't Chance, why wouldn't they just come out and say it?

Police commonly hold back facts of a case.. Something that perhaps only a victim would know. Sometimes things like the above wouldn't be released if they didn't want someone to suspect that they were considered a suspect.


Seems weird to me that the US Marshals would be so adamant that Dub was responsible back in 2010, and then 6 years later the Texas DPS puts out that statement saying that they have uncovered evidence that Dub and Chance were both victims.

Again, one of the problems here. Confirmation bias. People lean towards whatever evidence backs up their theory.

Who is the Gomez quotes you have? When you split up the quotes, I can't find the original message.. I want to find out who this Gomez is.. I want to make sure he and his team aren't another TIGHAR.. Or whatever the guy who is 10000% certain that DB Cooper was Robert Rackstraw. Or the people who 'solved' the Zodiac case recently.. Who I believe is the same team pointing the finger at Rackstraw.. With "I am Spongebob Squarepants" as evidence.

With Latricia's body being left in the house, cleaning up the scene a bit is slightly problematic. IMO it seems out of character for a guy like Dub. If a guy with a hair trigger temper, didn't have much of a plan beyond killing himself/his son when things didn't work out, why would he bother doing any cleaning in the first place??

On the flipside too, if it was a third party responsible and the party's intention was to frame Dub, then leaving Latricia's body behind would be the problematic part (as a cleaned-up crime scene & no body would go a long ways towards showing premeditation on Dub's part).

IMO, if a third party killed Latricia with the intent to frame Dub, why clean up the crime scene at all? Why stick around the crime scene any longer than you have to if you already have a fall guy in mind?

IMO, if a third party killed Latricia with the intent to frame Dub, why clean up the crime scene at all? Why stick around the crime scene any longer than you have to if you already have a fall guy in mind?

If you're Dub, why kill her, clean up the crime scene and then leave her body there and flee?

Ok.. So gomez is a US Marshall. Alright.

Now. First off.. Can we basically all agree here that the call that supposedly was received by Chance's grandfather was NOT Chance? The "Help Me" call? I don't care if you believe that the grandfather made it up, or that it was a twisted joke or whatever.. But.. Come on. We all have to agree that call did NOT come from Chance, right? Anyone here think it did?

So. With that out of the equation totally..

I'd ask everyone to read (or re-read) CrystalDawn's writeup of the case. They actually spoke with Gaye (Chance's mother) and Dub's sister.

https://lostnfoundblogs.com/f/dub-chance-wackerhagen-last-christmas

The main takeaways here.. First off, remember that CD talked to these people.. So, this isn't your common nutjob on the internet writing things up. I have a ton of respect for CD and the effort and legwork that is put into the blog posts.

But.. Note the part about Gaye mentioning that while Dub could be verbally abusive, there was never any physical violence between them.

Second, note that the phone call from Dub's truck is apparently BS.

And last.. The fact that Gaye throughout this, never believed that Dub would hurt Chance.

Gaye and Dub's sister Barbara, both seem to have come to the conclusion that Dub and Chance were also victims. To the extent that Gaye wrote a letter, which is included in CD's blog post, to the suspect asking him to let them know where Chance's body is.

Gaye and Barbara don't strike me as the.. Lost it type. Frankly, yes, I'm talking Noreen Gotsch. that woman, in her grief, I believe has totally lost her mind. Gaye and Barbara don't strike me as that type.

One other point that I don't quite get here.. The police couldn't tell that Latricia was shot SIX TIMES in the head?

look, I can get if she was just laying in bed and was shot in the back of the head.. Just looking at her.. A 22 isn't likely to exit the skull, so.. that's fine. But as soon as you lift her head.. That's going to be obvious. So.. To me, that speaks to the competence of the police who initially investigated.

If you're Dub, why kill her, clean up the crime scene and then leave her body there and flee?

Ok.. So gomez is a US Marshall. Alright.

Now. First off.. Can we basically all agree here that the call that supposedly was received by Chance's grandfather was NOT Chance? The "Help Me" call? I don't care if you believe that the grandfather made it up, or that it was a twisted joke or whatever.. But.. Come on. We all have to agree that call did NOT come from Chance, right? Anyone here think it did?

So. With that out of the equation totally..

I'd ask everyone to read (or re-read) CrystalDawn's writeup of the case. They actually spoke with Gaye (Chance's mother) and Dub's sister.

https://lostnfoundblogs.com/f/dub-chance-wackerhagen-last-christmas

The main takeaways here.. First off, remember that CD talked to these people.. So, this isn't your common nutjob on the internet writing things up. I have a ton of respect for CD and the effort and legwork that is put into the blog posts.

But.. Note the part about Gaye mentioning that while Dub could be verbally abusive, there was never any physical violence between them.

Second, note that the phone call from Dub's truck is apparently BS.

And last.. The fact that Gaye throughout this, never believed that Dub would hurt Chance.

Gaye and Dub's sister Barbara, both seem to have come to the conclusion that Dub and Chance were also victims. To the extent that Gaye wrote a letter, which is included in CD's blog post, to the suspect asking him to let them know where Chance's body is.

Gaye and Barbara don't strike me as the.. Lost it type. Frankly, yes, I'm talking Noreen Gotsch. that woman, in her grief, I believe has totally lost her mind. Gaye and Barbara don't strike me as that type.

One other point that I don't quite get here.. The police couldn't tell that Latricia was shot SIX TIMES in the head?

look, I can get if she was just laying in bed and was shot in the back of the head.. Just looking at her.. A 22 isn't likely to exit the skull, so.. that's fine. But as soon as you lift her head.. That's going to be obvious. So.. To me, that speaks to the competence of the police who initially investigated.


I agree with most of this. The call was almost certainly a hoax, most calls like that are. Basically someone calls in and says just enough to indicate they are either or a missing person or have a connection to a case and need help, but yet hang up without giving any useful information that will aid anyone in helping them and never calling back. Of course I guess the argument is someone (possibly Dub) got to Chance before he could, but seems unlikely to me Chance would have called if someone was close enough to him to pull him off the phone before he could utter anymore than help me, help me. I don't think his grandparents made it up, I think it was just someone who managed to sound enough like him that it got their hopes up when they were looking for hope.

As for Gaye and Barbara, I think Gaye's defending Dub as not hurting chance holds more water than Barbara, since Barbara was Dub's sister and could easily have been in denial about him. But Gaye was no fan of her ex husband at the time of the murder so her opinion carries a little more weight if it is in favor of Dub.

I agree with the rest of your post as well, there is legit evidence that Dub may not have been the culprit and I think logically you have to lean towards he and Chance being victims now as well. I don't think that is a slam dunk at this point but you have to at least consider it.

I agree with most of this. The call was almost certainly a hoax, most calls like that are. Basically someone calls in and says just enough to indicate they are either or a missing person or have a connection to a case and need help, but yet hang up without giving any useful information that will aid anyone in helping them and never calling back. Of course I guess the argument is someone (possibly Dub) got to Chance before he could, but seems unlikely to me Chance would have called if someone was close enough to him to pull him off the phone before he could utter anymore than help me, help me. I don't think his grandparents made it up, I think it was just someone who managed to sound enough like him that it got their hopes up when they were looking for hope.

As for Gaye and Barbara, I think Gaye's defending Dub as not hurting chance holds more water than Barbara, since Barbara was Dub's sister and could easily have been in denial about him. But Gaye was no fan of her ex husband at the time of the murder so her opinion carries a little more weight if it is in favor of Dub.

I agree with the rest of your post as well, there is legit evidence that Dub may not have been the culprit and I think logically you have to lean towards he and Chance being victims now as well. I don't think that is a slam dunk at this point but you have to at least consider it.

Some of the people with other theories.. You know, they're just as good, so.. Someone comes up with another one.. I'm willing to listen.

It's the things that don't make sense that bother me.. Like.. Dub has gone on the run and remained hidden for.. What's it been? near 40 years now? I don't see him having the sophistication.

BUT.. What's the woman who had the DUI that killed someone and went on the run? She doesn't have the sophistication, either, but... They haven't found her, yet, either. I figure she has either hooked up with some survivalist nutjob and they're living off the grid in the woods of Alaska.. Or.. Her bones are spread out across some forest after the rest of her was turned into coyote poop.

BUT.. What's the woman who had the DUI that killed someone and went on the run? She doesn't have the sophistication, either, but... They haven't found her, yet, either. I figure she has either hooked up with some survivalist nutjob and they're living off the grid in the woods of Alaska.. Or.. Her bones are spread out across some forest after the rest of her was turned into coyote poop.

Brad Bishop, Robert Fisher, the French dude that killed his family, etc. all have never resurfaced for years...and I'm fairly certain they killed their families and then themselves shortly thereafter. I think the same logic could apply with Dub.

Brad Bishop, Robert Fisher, the French dude that killed his family, etc. all have never resurfaced for years...and I'm fairly certain they killed their families and then themselves shortly thereafter. I think the same logic could apply with Dub.

You're absolutely right.. But what's the commonality here?

Same thing as DB Cooper, or Jimmy Hoffa.. We can't PROVE they are dead.

So.. like they said in "Dumb and Dumber", or like I said when the news broke that Dan Snyder might sell the team..

"So, you're telling me there's a chance!?!"


and.. honestly.. I have to say.. People who think any of that.. They're entitled to their opinion and I respect it, even though I probably don't agree with it.

Then there's the further side of things. Someone who wants to argue that Elvis is still alive. THOSE.. Yeah. THOSE can go right in the whack-o pile and they're not even worth having a conversation with.

I mean, the man would be 87 years old.. And he ate a hollowed out loaf of bread filled with peanut butter, bananas and bacon. He's been dead AT LEAST 20 years by now. :crazy:

It was Latricia's second ex husbands. He did not like it that dub was living there and Latricia was in a heated custody battle for her son that was around Chance's age. Also this ex had bene out early before this event being flown around in a plane and he told the pilot he was looking for place to bury bodies. The police think this ex came upon dub loading the card because of the presents and shot him dumped him in back of the truck. Also they think he went house killed latricia and then killed chance. Chance's foot print was found puddle of blood. It is likely he came in on Latricia being shot. Chance tossed in back of the truck too. The police to chance's mother there was lot more blood then they said on unsolved mysteries. The police think the ex left the truck in bad area so it would be stolen. the ex husband is the prime suspect. until they find he bodies its kind of at a stand still .

Brad Bishop, Robert Fisher, the French dude that killed his family, etc. all have never resurfaced for years...and I'm fairly certain they killed their families and then themselves shortly thereafter. I think the same logic could apply with Dub.

I'm not that familiar with the Robert Fisher case. But in the case of Brad Bishop, its a lot easier for me to believe he hid overseas somewhere all those years than it is for me to believe that about Lee Wackerhagen. Brad Bishop was fluent in several foreign languages, was familiar with the international scene due to the nature of his work, and possessed a diplomatic passport. He could have blended in well in some country overseas, most probably one in Europe which is where I think he went to. And not just because of the Roy Harrel sighting, that may or may not have happened. That's one of those things you either believe him or you don't.

Not only that, but Bishop's actions after the murders give every indication that he was engineering things in such a way to give himself at least a week or two head start on the authorities. The fact that he bothered to transport the bodies several hundred miles to another state and leave his car in a third state was far more indicative of someone intending to give himself time to get out of the country and flee rather than someone planning to commit suicide. Although I do find it interesting Bishop did not bother to clean up the crime scene or make calls to his childrens' schools concocting a bogus story for their absence like John List did. But its possible he didn't deem it necessary and that getting rid of the bodies in a state several hundred miles away would be sufficient.

Could he have committed suicide later? Sure but there is no proof of that. But I believe Bishop was more than capable of hiding all those years for the reasons outlined above.

Dub Wackerhagen on the other hand, sounded very much like a man of Grassroots America and likely would have stood out like a sore thumb most other places. Does that mean it was impossible for him to hide? No, anything is possible, after all we only really know about these guys what we get from a 15 minute Unsolved Mysteries segment so its always possible they are smarter than we give them credit for. But its a lot easier to believe Brad Bishop could have hidden all these years than Dub Wackerhagen.

Not only that, its pretty much a given Brad Bishop was the culprit in the murders in question, whereas with Wackerhagen its at the very least somewhat in doubt to any objective person.

I'm not that familiar with the Robert Fisher case. But in the case of Brad Bishop, its a lot easier for me to believe he hid overseas somewhere all those years than it is for me to believe that about Lee Wackerhagen. Brad Bishop was fluent in several foreign languages, was familiar with the international scene due to the nature of his work, and possessed a diplomatic passport. He could have blended in well in some country overseas, most probably one in Europe which is where I think he went to. And not just because of the Roy Harrel sighting, that may or may not have happened. That's one of those things you either believe him or you don't.

I would wager almost everything I own that Brad Bishop died somewhere in the Tennessee wilderness and his body has yet to be found.

Dub Wackerhagen on the other hand, sounded very much like a man of Grassroots America and likely would have stood out like a sore thumb most other places. Does that mean it was impossible for him to hide? No, anything is possible, after all we only really know about these guys what we get from a 15 minute Unsolved Mysteries segment so its always possible they are smarter than we give them credit for. But its a lot easier to believe Brad Bishop could have hidden all these years than Dub Wackerhagen.

Most of the family annihilators featured on UM have not had one solid piece of evidence that they are alive in the years since their crimes were committed. A bathroom sighting straight out of a thriller movie is hardly concrete evidence.

Not only that, its pretty much a given Brad Bishop was the culprit in the murders in question, whereas with Wackerhagen its at the very least somewhat in doubt to any objective person.

True. However, it's interesting to me that in the case of Robert Fisher, he's assumed to have been the murderer. There is no gray area like there is with Dub. Also Fisher is presumed to have killed himself (car abandoned in a national forest), but Bishop is believed to have walked out of the wilderness and made it to Europe. Occam's Razor says that they are all dead.

I would wager almost everything I own that Brad Bishop died somewhere in the Tennessee wilderness and his body has yet to be found.



Most of the family annihilators featured on UM have not had one solid piece of evidence that they are alive in the years since their crimes were committed. A bathroom sighting straight out of a thriller movie is hardly concrete evidence.



Remember, there was no real evidence that John List was alive for almost two decades, until they found him. I know he wasn't featured on Unsolved Mysteries but the similarity of his case to Brad Bishop's is pretty striking. And it took almost two decades to find him.

But John List unlike Bishop didn't have experience overseas and apparently didn't feel comfortable leaving the country likely in part because of his ties to the Lutheran church, so therefore he was a little easier to find. I think you are underestimating how much easier it is to hide if you can comfortably live abroad.

Obviously, Bishop was a scumbag so I'd actually prefer to believe he offed himself somewhere. But there is simply no proof of that.

Remember, there was no real evidence that John List was alive for almost two decades, until they found him. I know he wasn't featured on Unsolved Mysteries but the similarity of his case to Brad Bishop's is pretty striking. And it took almost two decades to find him.

They found List within two weeks of plastering his picture on America's Most Wanted. No firm sightings of Bishop have ever been reported, outside of Roy Harrell's hard to believe tale of allegedly running into him in a bathroom in Europe. Bishop left his car and is believed to have "blended in" with hikers on the Appalachian Trail. This was the age of pre-cell phones. I just don't see how he ditches his car and then decides to hike his way to parts unknown before then eventually getting back to civilization to where he can then travel to Europe, all the while never getting noticed or recognized for 40+ years.

They found List within two weeks of plastering his picture on America's Most Wanted. No firm sightings of Bishop have ever been reported, outside of Roy Harrell's hard to believe tale of allegedly running into him in a bathroom in Europe. Bishop left his car and is believed to have "blended in" with hikers on the Appalachian Trail. This was the age of pre-cell phones. I just don't see how he ditches his car and then decides to hike his way to parts unknown before then eventually getting back to civilization to where he can then travel to Europe, all the while never getting noticed or recognized for 40+ years.

Bishop's car was found in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. I am pretty familiar with that area, and its not as remote as you seem to think. While there are lots of nature and hiking trails throughout the mountains, there are also several towns there that are very popular year round tourist destinations with commercial attractions to go along side the hiking trails, including Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg, TN, as well as Cherokee, NC. So Bishop would not have been as far from civilization as you seem to be suggesting.

What i don't know however, is the exact spot where his car was found. That park encompasses a large area and there are any number of parking lots which enable access to hunting trails. But if he was anywhere near one of the places I mentioned, it would not have been to hard for him to hike or hitchhike into one of those areas and lose himself in a crowd then subsequently rent a car somewhere and leave.

As i said, it is possible Bishop committed suicide. But I don't believe it is as far fetched as you think that he could have hidden all those years either.

Bishop's car was found in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. I am pretty familiar with that area, and its not as remote as you seem to think. While there are lots of nature and hiking trails throughout the mountains, there are also several towns there that are very popular year round tourist destinations with commercial attractions to go along side the hiking trails, including Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg, TN, as well as Cherokee, NC. So Bishop would not have been as far from civilization as you seem to be suggesting.

Bishop's car was found in this (https://www.google.com/maps/place/630+Jakes+Creek+Trail,+Gatlinburg,+TN+37738/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x88595359fe0cec47:0xa460cce78c0c6f1b?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjvxr7Evdb8AhV3ATQIHV5PDvsQ8gF6BAgIEAI) parking lot. If he was going to disappear willingly, why not simply drive to the airport (or closer to one) and leave his car there? He's opening up the possibility of him being seen if he's hitchhiking around the area.

I'm not that familiar with the Robert Fisher case. the Roy Harrell sighting, that may or may not have happened. That's one of those things you either believe him or you don't.



When I first watched the reenactments of the Harrell sighting as a kid, I believed Roy did see Bishop. I now believe that Roy believed he saw Bishop. I've always felt him to be a truthful sort, but have to think he simply had an encounter with a deranged homeless person.

When I first watched the reenactments of the Harrell sighting as a kid, I believed Roy did see Bishop. I now believe that Roy believed he saw Bishop. I've always felt him to be a truthful sort, but have to think he simply had an encounter with a deranged homeless person.


You've discovered the thing that too many people do not.

Eyewitness identifications are VERY often incorrect.

Not from malice. Not from the person seeking fame.. The person making the identification is either just completely and totally honestly mistaken.

With a small number where they are influenced. They saw something "Hey, that really kinda looked like..." and either the cops (usually unintentionally) or their own minds convince themselves that it was what they saw.