.

Some people probably won't believe it, but it doesn't come as a huge surprise to me. She's a great actress, but I never thought she came off as seeming overly friendly.

Its probably due to her dibilitating health. When she and the cast of MTM were on Oprah last year, she was very candid about it. She also discussed her work towards finding a cure for diabites, and being a spokesperson.

Though its too bad you hear these stories about fans having these disappointing experiences or encounters with her, I don't think its fair to judge and criticize. JMO.

I don't think its fair to judge and criticize. JMO.

Well, GGfanforlife actually did meet her and had a bad experience, so I think they have every right to criticize her behavior.

I'm not trying to start a war, but I've heard that she was even mean back in the 1960s and 1970s.


Well, I guess she's no Betty White!!! I love my Betty! She's genuine and gracious ALWAYS.:)

It's not surprising to hear these stories about MTM, although it is disappointing. The sad thing is that she's probably more like the icy character she played in the film "Ordinary People" than she is like either Laura Petrie or Mary Richards. The difficult part for us, the viewers, is to not let who she may be IRL ruin our enjoyment of those two classic TV characters. Speaking strictly for myself, it can be a bit of a struggle. I guess that I just want to believe that the icons I grew up watching are as nice and likable in reality as they always seemed to be on TV. Pretty naive of me.

Well, somebody apparently thinks she's nice, nice enough to stay married to for 25 years...
http://www.chipmania.com/MTM.jpg

Honestly, are any of you "nice" 100% of the time? I think we are all capable of being nice and capable of being mean.

ive read many stories and as much as i like mary it seems that by most accounts her behavior can best be described as moody at best and downright cold at worst

Honestly, are any of you "nice" 100% of the time? I think we are all capable of being nice and capable of being mean.

She has no excuses for being rude to a fan at a book signing. Without fans, she wouldn't have anyone to buy her book. She should know better to use her nice "capabilities" at fan events.

This is why I sometimes hesitate to meet someone that I admire, because I have seen from experience that some celebs are completely unlike the likeable characters they portray. I tend to lose respect for people like this.

This is why I sometimes hesitate to meet someone that I admire, because I have seen from experience that some celebs are completely unlike the likeable characters they portray. I tend to lose respect for people like this.

Yeah, I would definitely lose a ton of respect for someone if they were rude to me in person. Depending on the circumstance, they would probably lose me as a fan.

I'm not trying to start a war, but I've heard that she was even mean back in the 1960s and 1970s.

I have a friend who's a writer and met her around 1980 when he was young and just starting out. He was at her house for an interview and he said she was not warm at all and made him feel uncomfortable, didn't even offer him anything to drink. And she made some rude remark to him about how, instead of talking to him, she could be spending her time doing something where she would get paid. I always thought maybe she was in a bad mood because that was around the time she lost her son and sister, and her marriage to Grant Tinker was unraveling. I don't know.

I am really shocked and saddened to hear of this. While I've never heard much, if anything about her interactions with fans, I do know that she's always come across as being warm and having a good sense of humor in interviews.. just an act? I can understand having an off day, but according to most of these posts, she's had more than a few of these, and to be so cold to a fan at a book signing, especially such a young fan, and I only say this because Ms. Moore should be so lucky as to have a whole new generation appreciationg a show that has been off the airwaves for over 30 years.

You can still love the character she's playing without liking her as a person. I can see her being rude if she's having a low blood sugar reaction because when I have one I can get pretty irritable but I doubt that's she's experienced that in every rude instance mentioned in this thread.

this is not to excuse any rude behavior, because you'd think it wouldn't happen under nearly any circumstances. however, it's probably fairly easily explained:

1) from reading mary's second book it is obvious to me that having diabetes is an unbelievably hard thing to deal with. she details having blood sugar highs and lows, and how they cause physical problems, mood swings, and she admits, irritability. she's had it for years and it's gotta wear a person down.

2) yes, we all love her as laura petrie and mary richards, but she's mary tyler moore, and after a while it's got to get annoying at times not even being able to go to the supermarket without people staring at you or wanting to chat you up, etc. president obama went to martha's vineyard this summer and one of the reasons the stars who live there love it is that folks treat you like regular people. i could easily imagine her saying, "ok, at a big event, i'll be laura or mary, but can't i get a little privacy at other times?" (and i personally would hate to have to shake hands with everybody at a function!)

3) she's definitely got some of the diva in her, there's no denying that. but she's mary tyler moore for crying out loud, she deserves to act the star a bit, doesn't she?!

seriously, i'm sorry you had a bad experience, and while i'm tempted to say you should have just let it go, realizing that people sometimes make mistakes or have off days, it's also understandable that you feel the way you do. nobody's perfect...you, me, or MTM!

wow GGfan...you've been through a lot, but if you've gotten through it all and are still comin' back for more you must have a lot on the ball!
hope things are trending upward for you, especially on your dad.

and i know your meet and greet didn't go the way you wanted, but sometimes you've just gotta rise above and be nice and understanding even though you might not feel like the other party deserves that.

you seem pretty good at rising above things so far!

She seemed OK to me at the B&N event, and appreciated my gifts, even though the rules were so tight-***ed. I dunno, I think there's some good in her deep down....she wouldn't do things for animal charities and etc if not. And moody or not I'd take her over most of today's celebrities who don't seem to care AT ALL about anyone or anything.

Still, I am one who admits to being sensitive on the matter, as I do like it even more when the entertainers and such I admire are good people. On the other hand, there's a laundry list of people I can't respect even if they have talent, all because of the "person vs. persona" thing. There's the "let's be mean to Dusty Springfield Club" (Nina Simone and Buddy Rich ;-)), and Diana Ross for the nightmare stories from the other Supremes. Then the REALLY EXTREME cases...I can't listen to a Phil Spector song the same way anymore. And two words: CHRIS BENOIT. Two more initials: O and J.

Edit: I just thought of one that really hurt me and was recent: the whole LeAnn Rimes affair (no pun intended).

P.S. I know I probably should not be so harsh for the most part..."let he who is without sin..." and all.

Yeah, it's good to know that Betty is nice :)

...unless you forget her ****ing coffee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn1r1jb4--k)

She seemed OK to me at the B&N event, and appreciated my gifts, even though the rules were so tight-***ed. I dunno, I think there's some good in her deep down....she wouldn't do things for animal charities and etc if not. And moody or not I'd take her over most of today's celebrities who don't seem to care AT ALL about anyone or anything.

Still, I am one who admits to being sensitive on the matter, as I do like it even more when the entertainers and such I admire are good people. On the other hand, there's a laundry list of people I can't respect even if they have talent, all because of the "person vs. persona" thing. There's the "let's be mean to Dusty Springfield Club" (Nina Simone and Buddy Rich ;-)), and Diana Ross for the nightmare stories from the other Supremes. Then the REALLY EXTREME cases...I can't listen to a Phil Spector song the same way anymore. And two words: CHRIS BENOIT. Two more initials: O and J.

Edit: I just thought of one that really hurt me and was recent: the whole LeAnn Rimes affair (no pun intended).

P.S. I know I probably should not be so harsh for the most part..."let he who is without sin..." and all.

Another thing to remember when wondering what Mary's true heart is like...she was not a backstage Satan, and encouraged Val and Cloris to star in their own series. That's another nice thing she did. So there's probably more to what some people have seen than meets the eye...I hope!

...unless you forget her ****ing coffee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn1r1jb4--k)

Wow! And we thought Mary was RUDE! :lol:

Wow, I'll have to check this Betty clip out at work (which has highspeed)

Hey, I snapped at some guy who came knocking at my door the other day, thinking he was another religious zealot trying to convert me, and it turned out it was a member of the condo association!

Things happen. The celebs aren't always right, the fans aren't always right...Can't we all just get along?

I've posted this already in the "Mary is Nice" thread, but just in case people on this thread don't see it, I thought it might be a good idea to post it here as well. So please, if seeing a double post offends any of you, get over it. I'm just trying to offer some perspective on what Ms. Moore goes through and am not interested in engaging in any petty squabbles. With that said, here goes:

Here's some perspective that I can offer as well. In the town that I live in, I'm somewhat well-known as being a church musician since I play and have played for various churches in the surrounding area. Often than not, if I'm ever in a store, post office, a restaurant or some place of business, I do get recognized.

For the most part it's kind of fun and it's nice to be acknowledged and appreciated. There have been times, however, where I was having a bad time (I've had to deal with the deaths of my mother, grandmother, 10 year old niece as well as being fired from a job and losing a best friend in the past 5 years) and all I wanted to do was to run my errand and leave.

When I've run into people who recognize me, they know me as one thing, a church musician, and they expect me to exhibit the traits that befit one. It's not that big of a deal, but I am also gay and don't agree with much of what the churches stand for, and yet I feel sometimes I have to always "be on" when it comes to representing that. Sometimes though, if I've had a bad day or I'm depressed/short tempered, trying to "be on" is very draining. It's uncomfortable to show these people, who are trying to be gracious but who are ultimately strangers, that I'm experiencing something that is a little too personal to be shared with them. After all, they only know one side of me. Most of the time I'm able to fake it but I do know there have been times where I wasn't so convincing and I came across as totally fake and insincere.

I think in a small way this parallels what Mary and many other celebrities go through on a daily basis. Ultimately, we are talking about people, not gods and goddesses. I'm not saying the rudeness is justified, but I do think it is understandable. And sometimes when they're gracious, it bites them in the tushie.

TMZ has a video of Mary being approached on the street where she's asked to sing the theme song "Love Is All Around". She is very gracious in the video and all smiles, and she ultimately complies with the fan's wish and sings the song. The next thing you know, it's posted on the internet with Mary being described as icy, obsessed with plastic surgery and being full of herself. WTF!!! I think it's hard for me to handle being recognized, but at least my name isn't put in tabloids or on the internet where it's surrounded with cruel verbiage. Can you imagine what that must be like?

In any case, I'm sure she's had her *bitchy* moments (as have we all), but I do think there's more to it than what we actually see. We view it as an isolated incident whereas she may be seeing as an extension of other crap that she's had to encounter and endure. In other words, she should be cut some slack.

I just hope I never have an encounter with her that forces me to change my opinion. If I do, I hope I'm able to consider myself lucky having met her at all.

Hope this helps...

Ed

Most of what I have read here is "he said" and "she said."

Mary is a human being. We have all seen how people assume celebrities are not actual human beings. Celebrities are not obligated to be "ON!" at all times!

Every single one of us at times has been rude to someone. It could have been in response to the situation or behavior. But, we were not there to judge and Mary is not here to defend herself!

Mary has done a lot for human kind and those with diabetes when she did NOT have to. Everyone who has worked with her adores her.
I am her fan and just for the fact that she has helped even one child with diabetes, I will always respect her.

I would like to ask the moderator to delete and do not allow the disrespectful accusations to be posted about those we are here to cheer.

Most of what I have read here is "he said" and "she said."

Mary is a human being. We have all seen how people assume celebrities are not actual human beings. Celebrities are not obligated to be "ON!" at all times!

Every single one of us at times has been rude to someone. It could have been in response to the situation or behavior. But, we were not there to judge and Mary is not here to defend herself!

Mary has done a lot for human kind and those with diabetes when she did NOT have to. Everyone who has worked with her adores her.
I am her fan and just for the fact that she has helped even one child with diabetes, I will always respect her.

I would like to ask the moderator to delete and do not allow the disrespectful accusations to be posted about those we are here to cheer.

Well this story hasn't changed my feelings about Mary. You're right about the he said/she said, and IS living with a debilitating illness. I suppose maybe some fans have been "crushed" with a negative encounter with her,
and I can be sensitive to that too. But that doesn't change her legacy, and her tireless work towards diabetes and animal rights.
People still love her, I don't think you need to worry about the negative condotations from this post!:)

Celebrities may not be obligated to be "on" at all times, but they certainly are when it is a fan event, such as a book signing. Here you have people who have supported you for years and are now buying your book. If you happen to be in a bad mood that day, you better put your acting chops to use and fake it.

Actually, I'm sick of hearing about Mary being rude! We've discussed it, now let's move on!

Well I'm sick of hearing that Mary is such a nice person when in fact she is not.

I didn't say she was nice, I'm just sick of hearing about it!:lol:

Dear GGfanforlife,

Unfortunately,I can't really state that I'm surprised that Mary Tyler Moore is rude.While I haven't been privvy to anything like the up-close, personal accounts that you've related to us,iwas aware of something you didn't bring up.MTM(Mary Tyler Moore)was raising heck a few years ago,along with various other people,concerning a couple of hawks that had picked an unusual nesting site.The nesting site had been a residential building facade where I believe MTM might've resided in.Many of the building's residents wanted the birds of prey out.However,MTM and her group, protested and rallied on,until the birds were legally allowed to stay,and eventually the birds moved to another spot.

Throughout all this,I couldn't help thinking that MTM was a heartless person of some sort.Why would she be so gung-ho about rallying in favor of homeless wild animals and hasn't done the same for the human homeless strewn throughout New York City?Your thread finally brought substance to my suspicions about her.

http://i35.tinypic.com/65xv85.jpghttp://i37.tinypic.com/2enytkh.jpg

Actually, I'm sick of hearing about Mary being rude! We've discussed it, now let's move on!

Ditto.

GGfan you obviously have hard feelings that won't be patched up despite what anyone will say, so maybe it's best to not post here anymore, just cause it's a place about someone you don't like that is predominantly made of her fans. It's OK to have an opinion, but there's a time and place for everything.

And I'd add something about how when you have an illness...*it* talks rather than you. I know what this is like, sort of. (not a physical one...it's a long story) And I wonder if I'm a good or bad person as a result. Not everyone can be a saint 24/7 under certain circumstances, you know. But again, long story and I doubt you care anyway. BTW, MJ never had an illness that could affect your mood, did he? (I wasn't a BIG fan, so I don't know)

I can give you some advice, though: instead of complaining to people who can't really help you, why not write to MTM herself and let her know how you feel? Her email is MTMPix@aol.com
In before you say "I won't, she won't care, etc. etc." : hey, don't knock it till you've tried it. It could give you a little closure too.

Dear GGfanforlife,

Unfortunately,I can't really state that I'm surprised that Mary Tyler Moore is rude.While I haven't been privvy to anything like the up-close, personal accounts that you've related to us,iwas aware of something you didn't bring up.MTM(Mary Tyler Moore)was raising heck a few years ago,along with various other people,concerning a couple of hawks that had picked an unusual nesting site.The nesting site had been a residential building facade where I believe MTM might've resided in.Many of the building's residents wanted the birds of prey out.However,MTM and her group, protested and rallied on,until the birds were legally allowed to stay,and eventually the birds moved to another spot.

Throughout all this,I couldn't help thinking that MTM was a heartless person of some sort.Why would she be so gung-ho about rallying in favor of homeless wild animals and hasn't done the same for the human homeless strewn throughout New York City?Your thread finally brought substance to my suspicions about her.

http://i35.tinypic.com/65xv85.jpghttp://i37.tinypic.com/2enytkh.jpg

More people speak out for humans rather than animals, which a lot of us take for granted. So frankly we need more to concentrate on that. And maybe as such Mary decided that that will specifically be her cause. Nothing wrong with that.

EDIT: And at least she has an admirable cause, most celebrities today don't care about ANYONE, it seems. Person or animal alike. Tell me, what has Britney, Paris, et al done for anyone lately?!!? Wasn't the latter supposed to have found God and was going to start charities and whatnot after her stay in jail 2 years ago?

(I'd also argue some animals are better than most people anyway, but not here nor there)

I know, dominion over all the earth and all, but still! Look how many people get off lightly in cruelty cases!

Mini-soapbox over.

I don't care how many of you try to make up excuses for Mary's ignorant behavior towards others for no reason, I'm always gonna believe that Mary is a rude person. While I do feel bad for her that she had diabetes, that is really no excuse to be cold hearted to others. Look at Michael Jackson. That man was abused by his father, called a child molestor(even though he was NOT),

Do you realize the contradictory nature of your comment? You're upset with people here making comments about Mary being nice, when they haven't had a personal experience like you have where she proved not to be nice. But then you make a statement that you know Michael Jackson was not a child molester. How do you definitively KNOW he wasn't a child molester if you haven't had the personal experience his accusers had? The same way that people who have never met MTM cannot say definitively she's a nice person, you cannot make definitive claims about Michael Jackson. No one has ever given a sufficient explanation of why he paid millions of dollars to an accuser rather than go to court against that accuser and try to prove his innocence. If someone were trying to smear my reputation, the LAST thing I would ever do would be to pay that very person gobs of money so they can live a life of luxury. That makes no sense at all. Check out this web page. How many of these 11 factors apply to Michael Jackson? This is food for thought: http://www.kidproofcanada.com/SiteCM/U/D/9C42AF57181D43C4.pdf

Do you realize the contradictory nature of your comment? You're upset with people here making comments about Mary being nice, when they haven't had a personal experience like you have where she proved not to be nice. But then you make a statement that you know Michael Jackson was not a child molester. How do you definitively KNOW he wasn't a child molester if you haven't had the personal experience his accusers had? The same way that people who have never met MTM cannot say definitively she's a nice person, you cannot make definitive claims about Michael Jackson. No one has ever given a sufficient explanation of why he paid millions of dollars to an accuser rather than go to court against that accuser and try to prove his innocence. If someone were trying to smear my reputation, the LAST thing I would ever do would be to pay that very person gobs of money so they can live a life of luxury. That makes no sense at all. Check out this web page. How many of these 11 factors apply to Michael Jackson? This is food for thought: http://www.kidproofcanada.com/SiteCM/U/D/9C42AF57181D43C4.pdf

Um, too soon?

Anyway, I think we all know by now...the internet is for talking about/lashing out at people you don't know.

Also, I know I am getting short at people here. But I've had LOTS of situations where I doubted people I admire lately. So forgive me if I am a bit fed up too. Ironically, I am probably more sensitve than GGFan is. Cause I nitpick little incidents and qualities on top of everything else. And unlike others, more often than not when I hear something I don't like, poof, there goes my interest and guilt-free attitude about liking their work.

GGFan, I stick by my original advice, BTW. I meant to add, thoough, that at least you had nice memories of Cloris and Betty.

I don't care how many of you try to make up excuses for Mary's ignorant behavior towards others for no reason, I'm always gonna believe that Mary is a rude person.


You're more than welcome to believe that. No one is saying otherwise. I myself was just presenting a possible reason as to why she would react that way. I wasn't saying it was definitive.

May I put something out there though? It seems you are basing your opinion of Mary on one experience that you had along with the hearsay of other people. It probably is *all* true, but to write someone off, who is still a human being, based on your hurt feelings is a little off to me. Perhaps she's very lonely and is tired of people trying to connect with her on an iconic level instead of as a real person. Again, I don't know, but this seems to run pretty deeply inside you and I think it may be time to let it go; otherwise you'll become as bitter as you claim she is.

If she's truly a b*tch, don't let her have that power. And for those of us who haven't met her (and most of us never will), I'm sorry your experience wasn't pleasant, but at least you got to meet her. You're already ahead of the game compared to most of us. Good or bad, you're luckier than most of us who will never have that opportunity.

Ed

Think about this: I have firsthand proof that diabetic people can get moody. See, my mom has it too, and depending on what happens she can get short at people at home sometimes. (usually my dad ;-) ;-) ;-))

I still maintain that Mary has on and off days. If she was ALWAYS rotten, how do you explain that, when I saw her, though the rules and security was kind of strict, she appreciated my compliments and gladly accepted my makeshift Mimsie (MTM cat) and looked like she really was amused by it. Whether that was the exception and not the rule, who can say?

And again I did give you some advice above. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, I really am. But on the other hand, it's like I come here and it's like, *sigh* this will never end, will it? And it is depressing me too, as I've said ad infinitum, things like this DO affect how I see the TV shows, the music, and etc. etc. But I think my tips could help you get closure.

More people speak out for humans rather than animals, which a lot of us take for granted. So frankly we need more to concentrate on that. And maybe as such Mary decided that that will specifically be her cause. Nothing wrong with that.

EDIT: And at least she has an admirable cause, most celebrities today don't care about ANYONE, it seems. Person or animal alike. Tell me, what has Britney, Paris, et al done for anyone lately?!!? Wasn't the latter supposed to have found God and was going to start charities and whatnot after her stay in jail 2 years ago?

(I'd also argue some animals are better than most people anyway, but not here nor there)

I know, dominion over all the earth and all, but still! Look how many people get off lightly in cruelty cases!

Mini-soapbox over.

P.S. it's ironic that you seem to be an animal person, having a hawk (double ironic) and the dog in your sig.

Oh and to the user who asked "How do I KNOW that Michael Jackson didn't molest the people of accusing him, well Michael was too good hearted and innocent as to do such a horrible thing

And how do you KNOW that? Obviously, you didn't read my post because you're making the same point again that I already responded to, and you're not addressing what I asked. And I again refer you to this: http://www.kidproofcanada.com/SiteCM...57181D43C4.pdf

and also why would the father of his accuser take the money if MJ would have molested his son?

Why wouldn't he take his money? He already publicly humiliated him. And his son has been living in luxury ever since, which perhaps he deserves after what he allegedly endured. And you're not addressing my question, just trying to turn it around. Again, why would Michael Jackson agree to shell out millions of bucks to enrich the very person who is ruining his reputation, rather than take on that person in court and prove his innocence? That makes no sense.

Wouldn't he want him locked up in jail? PROOF right there that the accusers were just after MJ's money.

Victims sue their perpetrators every day for damages. This is nothing new. In fact, it's commonplace. The fact that Nicole Brown Simpson's family sued O.J. Simpson for financial compensation means they were only after money? No. It's about punishment and gaining some sense of justice.

And how do you KNOW that? Obviously, you didn't read my post because you're making the same point again that I already responded to, and you're not addressing what I asked. And I again refer you to this: http://www.kidproofcanada.com/SiteCM...57181D43C4.pdf



Why wouldn't he take his money? He already publicly humiliated him. And his son has been living in luxury ever since, which perhaps he deserves after what he allegedly endured. And you're not addressing my question, just trying to turn it around. Again, why would Michael Jackson agree to shell out millions of bucks to enrich the very person who is ruining his reputation, rather than take on that person in court and prove his innocence? That makes no sense.



Victims sue their perpetrators every day for damages. This is nothing new. In fact, it's commonplace. The fact that Nicole Brown Simpson's family sued O.J. Simpson for financial compensation means they were only after money? No. It's about punishment and gaining some sense of justice.


Can I ask a dumb question? What does O.J. Simpson have to do with wheather or not MTM is rude??:lol: :lol:

Here's something funny....considering what we are going through as far as character niceness to person niceness....wouldn't it be funny if we started getting stories about how ED ASNER was the nicest one of the MTM cast? (I mean, as opposed to being cantankerous Lou Grant, of course ;-) ;-))

EDIT: Not to suggest he isn't a nice guy of course...and thanks for the story LittleRickyII!

Can I ask a dumb question? What does O.J. Simpson have to do with wheather or not MTM is rude??:lol: :lol:

He was drawing a parallel because the original poster said that because Michael Jackson's supposed victim's father sued him for large sums of money, this was proof that Michael Jackson was innocent. The reference to O.J. Simpson and the civil suit that the Goldmans won against him was to show how illogical the original poster's argument was. Suing isn't necessarily an indication of guilt or innocense.

I have a hunch you know that already (hence the :lol: that you posted) but just in case you really are in the dark, I thought I'd explain.

Take care,

Ed

Here's something funny....considering what we are going through as far as character niceness to person niceness....wouldn't it be funny if we started getting stories about how ED ASNER was the nicest one of the MTM cast? (I mean, as opposed to being cantankerous Lou Grant, of course ;-) ;-))

I have had the pleasure of meeting Ed Asner and he was terrific. The whole time he PRETENDED to be gruff and cantankerous like Lou Grant (the way he does on Jay Leno), but it was a total put-on. He had me in stitches! Great guy!

He was drawing a parallel because the original poster said that because Michael Jackson's supposed victim's father sued him for large sums of money, this was proof that Michael Jackson was innocent. The reference to O.J. Simpson and the civil suit that the Goldmans won against him was to show how illogical the original poster's argument was. Suing isn't necessarily an indication of guilt or innocense.

I have a hunch you know that already (hence the :lol: that you posted) but just in case you really are in the dark, I thought I'd explain.

Take care,

Ed

It was my way of saying that this whole thread is getting ridiculous:rolleyes:

It was my way of saying that this whole thread is getting ridiculous:rolleyes:

One last thing before we (hopefully) let this thread die?

*I* know what it's like to let a condition affect my mood, as I said. It's a story in itself, but I often do feel like a nice guy trapped in a sometimes curmudgeony, sometimes a bit unbalanced, body.