Okay can we talk about this case for one moment. I was watching it on one of CrystalDawns set this weekend and I am absolutely perplexed by it all.

Just to recap, this was the woman who came from Korea and lived in NYC. Her husband and her had run two stores...one in Manhattan and one Brooklyn. She left her apartment one Saturday afternoon to go shopping and is not seen again. That night a security guard doing his rounds in Brooklyn, comes across a white male hanging around a dumpster. He is dressed in a running outfit with blood in it. After giving the security guard $20 to dump in the dumpster, he leaves. The security guard gets his partial license plate and make/model of car. Then he finds Su Ya Kim's naked body in the dumpster stabbed to death.

I was confused as to why Ms. Kim's car was located in her home garage not used that day. You have to assume she was probably abducted from her apartment condo.

I do believe the security guard and his story....don't know why, really I didn't get the vibe he was very smart and was being truthful He admitted that he took $20 from the guy.

Why did the partial license plate and car/model match up with a LI College woman's car who claimed she never used her car that night?

And finally why would this man be wearing a running outfit.

My gut feeling on this from the facts presented on UM (which are usually not a complete set of them) is that Mrs. Kim was having an affair with this man who was seen at the dumpster. Makes sense that he would be in everyday clothes, when something happens and he kills her. Mrs. Kim was also stabbed 9 times....that seems like overkill to me. Plus UM kept harping on the fact of how happy she was in her marriage and they had just celebrated 10 years together...I was wondering if that was the husband take on it.

Anyone else feel like this might be the case??

yeah i rember this case i dont think the security guard story added up he probley knew a lil more then what he was telling..

IMO one of the saddest stories ever on UM. Not only was she the victim of an unsolved murder, she had 2 children; and the family ultimately ended up leaving America and returning to Korea.

At first, I also questioned the veracity of the security guard's story. However, I think ultimately he told the truth. First, he apparently passed a lie detector test and the police officially never considered him a suspect. Second, if he was somehow involved, why "discover" her body in the dumpster in the first place? He would have been better off simply burying the body in the dumpster and chances are it would not have been discovered until it was dumped at the processing plant / landfill, if at all. Finally, why appear in the UM segment if you've got something to hide? It's not like he's a suspect and would want to clear his name.

Given the multiple stab wounds and the body was nude, but apparently no evidence of rape was found, it suggests a crime of passion by someone who knew her. I don't believe they ever mentioned where the husband was that afternoon, however, he was out when she left. She didn't take her car to go shopping, which suggests that she may have planned to be picked up by someone.

The strangest aspect of this case is that the suspect's car was identified by its license plate #; and that it belonged to a Taiwanese exchange student who did not live in the area and hadn't used the car that night. I know that the victim and car owner's nationalities were different, however, it is quite a coincidence that they were both foreign-born Asian females. It's not like they both lived close to one another in an Asian community. The exchange student went to a college that was not nearby (relatively speaking). Perhaps she or someone she knew was involved with the victim or her husband. Even though the guy who the guard saw dump the body was white, if I recall he appeared young enough and was wearing running gear, which suggests that he might have been a student at the college.

Very strange that the suspect's car was positively ID'd and found and the owner has no idea how it could've been used in the crime. Also, since blood was dripping from the body, was her blood ever found in the car itself?

Finally, the husband leaving America and returning to Korea, while understandable given the circumstances, also bothered me. He had established a successful business and had 2 sons. It's possible that he might have wanted to avoid further police scrutiny.

Yeah, it seems like the spouse is the automatic suspect so Iwonder why they didn't mention anything about him.

I tried finding a newspaper article on this case, but could not locate one.

i'm not sure its the husband.

i mean who's the white guy that was seen in the dumpster with blood. he is your guy. the guard seemed smart enough to id the plate on the car. I have been a witness to a crime and saw the license plate. I remember model and make. I dont see why this blue nissan is not the car. perhaps it wasn't a new york license plate? i mean the guy is a security guard...even a partial recognition is good enough for LE to find the car. the security guard is baffled too. if my reporting of the plate was told to me to be wrong...i would be baffled too. i saw what i saw. the guard saw what he saw.

this case distrurbs me. however, you would think the police would have investigated the husband...looked for blood around the house? whats his association with the white guy seen at the crime.

my gut is this....my gut tells me she was having an affair. she wasn't leaving her husband so the guy killed her. its funny how stack mentions them having one store in long island...the same place where the foreign exchange student's blue nissan was found.

this might explain why the husband left. there's no reason for him to be in america. she probably cheated on him with a white male. america is probably a huge source of anguish for him.

thats what my gut tells me.

i'm not sure its the husband.

i mean who's the white guy that was seen in the dumpster with blood. he is your guy. the guard seemed smart enough to id the plate on the car. I have been a witness to a crime and saw the license plate. I remember model and make. I dont see why this blue nissan is not the car. perhaps it wasn't a new york license plate? i mean the guy is a security guard...even a partial recognition is good enough for LE to find the car. the security guard is baffled too. if my reporting of the plate was told to me to be wrong...i would be baffled too. i saw what i saw. the guard saw what he saw.

this case distrurbs me. however, you would think the police would have investigated the husband...looked for blood around the house? whats his association with the white guy seen at the crime.

my gut is this....my gut tells me she was having an affair. she wasn't leaving her husband so the guy killed her. its funny how stack mentions them having one store in long island...the same place where the foreign exchange student's blue nissan was found.

this might explain why the husband left. there's no reason for him to be in america. she probably cheated on him with a white male. america is probably a huge source of anguish for him.

thats what my gut tells me.

That's what I was just thinking. maybe when su ya kim went out that night to go "shopping," she actually met up with her lover somewhere. That would explain why her husband and his brother discovered the car was still in the garage. I don't think she drove it at all that night because it was pointed out that the car's engine was cold. I have a feeling that su ya kim wanted to end the relationship with her lover so he became enraged and killed her. What I don't get is how the blue Nissan belonged to a Taiwanese exchange student so how did the guy get a hold of the car?

certainly a disturbing case.

That's what I was just thinking. maybe when su ya kim went out that night to go "shopping," she actually met up with her lover somewhere. That would explain why her husband and his brother discovered the car was still in the garage. I don't think she drove it at all that night because it was pointed out that the car's engine was cold. I have a feeling that su ya kim wanted to end the relationship with her lover so he became enraged and killed her. What I don't get is how the blue Nissan belonged to a Taiwanese exchange student so how did the guy get a hold of the car?

certainly a disturbing case.

for those suspecting the husband, i believe his alibi was that he was at the store all day. there are several questions that an investigator should ask.

first off, she goes shopping, did she say where? women don't shop alone too often. even if they do, they should have gone shopping and were sighted. UM mentioned the police questioned her friends and got nada. next step would be to scour shopping places...malls near her house or her favorite malls to see if anyone recognized her. what did she like to buy etc etc. This is probably the direction the police initially took...if it was cold this has to be where she purposely took some discretion in her whereabouts.

this probably means an affair. we do know this crime was more likely a crime of passion. no robbery...but stabbing 9 times. thats overkill. there was no rape either. unless this was a hate/racial crime.

one thing that bothers me is they didn't get dna or prints from tthe body. the suspect handled the body. that body is laden with prints and dna especially if the guy has blood all over her. another point to support the affair theory is the fact the time of death is during the daytime. if she was robbed or anything she couldn't have been in a secluded area if she was shopping.

if affair theory holds, her friends might have a good chance of knowing or even suspecting. women have a knack for that. they might not know of an affair but they might suspect. "oh he was a friend...etc etc." Another point is that it might not have been even an affair. it might have been just an unrequited friendship that led towards his frustration.

i think that eventually things came out. i think the husband eventually started hearing through the grapevine that there might have been an affair going on. I think that caused him a lot of despair and he left. I also noticed they were constantly emphasizing how a great mother and everything she was. thing is, to solve the murder would reveal her infidelity. in korean culture, that might be a greater disgrace and carry more weight than actually resolving the murder and bringing the perpetrator to justice.

my last thoughts include that that car is dirty. that car is the freaking car. liek ive said before, i've ID'd a license plate to a crime (robbery) before. I wrote and memorized that thing like crazy. the guard was already suspicious, he was probably analyzing that license plate like crazy. even his interviews he was like...i dont get it. thats the car. i bet you the police tailed that car like crazy.

i also do not buy into the UM theory that it was a cab driver. how many white light haired taxi cab drivers do you see? the type that would be attracted to this woman would be probably white professional.

just my two cents.

My two cents on this case...

1. I believe the security guards story, because it is way too detailed for him to have made it up. Plus why would he sully himself by mentioning he took $20? If he made up the story, he would try to put himself in the best light possible.

2. I think an aspect that is overlooked in this case is the description of the suspect. He was wearing what appears to be jogging gear. Jogging gear?:confused: I highly doubt he attacked Su while he was jogging and then dragged her into his car that was parked nearby. It makes more sense that he wore these clothes because he didn't want his actual clothes bloodied. He wore something that he could dispose of right away and still be moderately decent. In short, I believe he killed her in a building somewhere and spent time disposing the body. This gives evidence that this may be a very thought out killing.

3. Most attackers tend to go after their own ethnic background or show a fetish for a certain type. I wonder if there have been similar attacks of Asian women in the area.

4. As mentioned by a previous poster, it is interesting that they found car that belongs to another Asian women. This makes me wonder if this might be a mistaken identity killing. That the killer murdered the wrong woman.

5. As bad as i feel for Mr. Kim, I would not rule out the possibility that he hired someone to off his wife. Or that some other person hired a proxy.

6. I doubt the suspect was a cab driver. i think he fits more the description of a livery driver or a limo driver.

Usually i agree with you to the tee. But I'm going to disagree with some of your thoughts here.

My two cents on this case...

1. I believe the security guards story, because it is way too detailed for him to have made it up. Plus why would he sully himself by mentioning he took $20? If he made up the story, he would try to put himself in the best light possible.

Yeah. There seemed to be nothing that would seem the indicate the guard was lying.


2. I think an aspect that is overlooked in this case is the description of the suspect. He was wearing what appears to be jogging gear. Jogging gear?:confused: I highly doubt he attacked Su while he was jogging and then dragged her into his car that was parked nearby. It makes more sense that he wore these clothes because he didn't want his actual clothes bloodied. He wore something that he could dispose of right away and still be moderately decent. In short, I believe he killed her in a building somewhere and spent time disposing the body. This gives evidence that this may be a very thought out killing.

I disagree that this was a thought out killing. If you are to kill someone...in a "hit" sort of way. Why stab them 9 times then dump their body in the middle of the city? I know the dump site was a little off but there are plenty of other places to dump the body outside the city. Also why dump the body with blood all of you. i'm sure that body is laden with evidence.



3. Most attackers tend to go after their own ethnic background or show a fetish for a certain type. I wonder if there have been similar attacks of Asian women in the area.

4. As mentioned by a previous poster, it is interesting that they found car that belongs to another Asian women. This makes me wonder if this might be a mistaken identity killing. That the killer murdered the wrong woman.


i somewhat agree here. I think this guy is more of a professional though. i think he's white collar. i hate to stereotype/profile, but these white professional types like the asians.

I disagree that this is a mistaken hit. if it was and the intended target was the exchange student why was he in the exchange students car? why was suya kim even connected?



5. As bad as i feel for Mr. Kim, I would not rule out the possibility that he hired someone to off his wife. Or that some other person hired a proxy.



again, I don't agree. what possible motive could he have had. again, a hitman wouldn't have stabbed a woman 9 times. there are way better ways to kill a person. stabbing is too messy and would leave too much evidence.


6. I doubt the suspect was a cab driver. i think he fits more the description of a livery driver or a limo driver.

i'm not sure why UM said he was a cab driver or such. how many white cab drivers are there? the guy doesn't seem very "ethnic" in any way.

Again, I have a feeling the police know who probably did it.

Okay can we talk about this case for one moment. I was watching it on one of CrystalDawns set this weekend and I am absolutely perplexed by it all.

Just to recap, this was the woman who came from Korea and lived in NYC. Her husband and her had run two stores...one in Manhattan and one Brooklyn. She left her apartment one Saturday afternoon to go shopping and is not seen again. That night a security guard doing his rounds in Brooklyn, comes across a white male hanging around a dumpster. He is dressed in a running outfit with blood in it. After giving the security guard $20 to dump in the dumpster, he leaves. The security guard gets his partial license plate and make/model of car. Then he finds Su Ya Kim's naked body in the dumpster stabbed to death.

I was confused as to why Ms. Kim's car was located in her home garage not used that day. You have to assume she was probably abducted from her apartment condo.

I do believe the security guard and his story....don't know why, really I didn't get the vibe he was very smart and was being truthful He admitted that he took $20 from the guy.

Why did the partial license plate and car/model match up with a LI College woman's car who claimed she never used her car that night?

And finally why would this man be wearing a running outfit.

My gut feeling on this from the facts presented on UM (which are usually not a complete set of them) is that Mrs. Kim was having an affair with this man who was seen at the dumpster. Makes sense that he would be in everyday clothes, when something happens and he kills her. Mrs. Kim was also stabbed 9 times....that seems like overkill to me. Plus UM kept harping on the fact of how happy she was in her marriage and they had just celebrated 10 years together...I was wondering if that was the husband take on it.

Anyone else feel like this might be the case??

I just reviewed this one on UM. I suppose the affair, etc. theories are possible, I certainly wouldn't jump to that conclusion without some actual evidence. Nor, frankly, do I suspect either the security guard or the husband.

This strikes me as a sexual sadist serial killer - the overkill (nine wounds) along with the intimacy of stabbing. A famous analogy would be Zodiac's attack at Lake Berryesa. In this scenario, Ms. Kim could have been accosted and abducted whilst shopping and was likely a victim of chance, not specifically targeted.

A serial killer theory would also explain the dump site - the killer could have scoped out a good site - a dumpster hidden from street view next to an abandoned building in a bad neighborhood is a pretty good one; and his discovery was a fortutious accident.

The license plate issue is an interesting one, and a couple of possabilities come to mind: (1) the guard got the number wrong - certainly possible and I suppose the simplest explanation; that the cars were both blue nissans was just coincedence then; (2) it was an out-of-state plate - I consider this not very probable, since NY plates are fairly distictive and anyone familar with them (as I'd presume a NY resident to be) and able to observe the plate long enough to get a partial number would have instantly recognized a non-NY plate, even if they couldn't id the state/province; (3) one possability not mentioned in the segment was that the killer could have "borrowed" the plate from the student's car, replacing it after the murder - on the one hand, this would explain the discrepancy perfectly (even the matching cars), but on the other, it seems risky - how would the killer know the plates would not be missed? How would he know he would not be observed removing and replacing them? It seems more troublesome than just stealing a car to use for the murder, then dumping it.

I wonder if any other murders in the NYC area fit the general pattern?

On a wholly unrelated note, was the actor playing the mystery man in this segment the same one playing "Tom Johnson" in the infamous segment re: that crime.

This strikes me as a sexual sadist serial killer - the overkill (nine wounds) along with the intimacy of stabbing. A famous analogy would be Zodiac's attack at Lake Berryesa. In this scenario, Ms. Kim could have been accosted and abducted whilst shopping and was likely a victim of chance, not specifically targeted.

Not necessarily. He may have used the knife because it was the only weapon available to him at the time.

One theory that hasn't been looked at is the possibility this could be a hate crime against Asian people.

Again, the fact that he was wearing a jogging type outfit still strikes me as interesting. He had to have taken her somewhere before he attacked her and had her alive for a period of time.The jogging outfit tells me that he was busy disposing of her body and wiping blood off somewhere.

I think that the license plate mix up is frustrating but ultimately a non-issue (other than the fact that it didn't lead to the killer). The DMV is definitely not infallible, or maybe the guard got the license plate number wrong, as mentioned above.

I once got a call from a Dallas Police Detective saying that a car registered in my name had been involved in a hit and run accident. I have a quite unusual name, and I hadn't lived in Dallas or had a car registered in Texas in 5 years. It turns out that they had attached my social security number to this person's vehicle registration and it was just a clerical mix up. Point: it's possible that a clerical error or something like that could have led to a license plate mix up or duplication. But ultimately, I don't think this is where the answers lie to who killed Su Ya Kim.

Hmm... this is such a strange case.

My gut instincts tell me that she had an affair. because her car engine was cold.

However, her store was in Bushwick Brooklyn , an unsafe area.

Six Years ago, my mother herself ran one of those "stores" selling toys and imported knifes from China in a not-so-safe location of houston. I guess the hardships of coming to the United States forced them to open the stores in those areas to survive.

I think the episode was strange as to that none of their store customers or people living near that store were interviewed for the segment. Have the police looked into connections with people who lived near the store?

In addition to the "borrowed" plate theory, it is possible the person in question had access to vehicle records and had a set of plates forged with a legitimate plate number matching a similar vehicle. People who work in town tax offices, the DMV, insurance companies and others have access to such records.

As for her husband going back to Korea, there could be several reasons for this, none of which are suspicious to me.
a) America was THEIR dream and he couldn't bear to live it without her.
b) He needed help raising the kids and all of his extended family was back in Korea.
c) Maybe he went back home to start over and find a new wife.

In addition to the "borrowed" plate theory, it is possible the person in question had access to vehicle records and had a set of plates forged with a legitimate plate number matching a similar vehicle. People who work in town tax offices, the DMV, insurance companies and others have access to such records.

As do law enforcement officers.

As for her husband going back to Korea, there could be several reasons for this, none of which are suspicious to me.
a) America was THEIR dream and he couldn't bear to live it without her.
b) He needed help raising the kids and all of his extended family was back in Korea.
c) Maybe he went back home to start over and find a new wife.

I don't know. It's not like he came from Japan and went back to Japan. How many people would go back to south Korea? There was a very good reason they left south korea. Sadness aside, I can't imagine it's the wisest thing financially to do? he still has a business that I assume was still profiable. It would be way cheaper to bring the family here than for him to go there. Not to mention the kids would have to be taken out of American culture to a whole new culture and school systems.

South Korea is a very hard country for law enforcement to find someone. i don't even know if they have an FBI office.(i would assume so due to the DMZ and CIAs prescence.)

As do law enforcement officers.



I don't know. It's not like he came from Japan and went back to Japan. How many people would go back to south Korea? There was a very good reason they left south korea. Sadness aside, I can't imagine it's the wisest thing financially to do? he still has a business that I assume was still profiable. It would be way cheaper to bring the family here than for him to go there. Not to mention the kids would have to be taken out of American culture to a whole new culture and school systems.

South Korea is a very hard country for law enforcement to find someone. i don't even know if they have an FBI office.(i would assume so due to the DMZ and CIAs prescence.)

I really disagree with this line of reasoning. I get a sense that you are getting South Korea mixed up with North Korea. South Korea is a thriving democracy and one of the world's richest countries, with a strong middle class economy. You are making it sound like he chose the Gaza strip over America. I think he went back to S. Korea because that's where all his family is, and he probably couldn't/didn't want to run the stores without the help of his wife. I really think your logic here is way off (I hope you don't take offense, just saying).

Also, I got the impression, based on the recreations, that Ms. Kim did not speak English very well..THAT would be vital, as it could impact the affair theory. Was a woman who barely spoke English having an affair with the white guy in the running suit (unless he spoke Korean???)

Who knows, the point is, the image given of S. Korea is not accurate. Forgive me if I misunderstood.

I really disagree with this line of reasoning. I get a sense that you are getting South Korea mixed up with North Korea. South Korea is a thriving democracy and one of the world's richest countries, with a strong middle class economy.

1. It couldn't have been that thriving back then, considering they left the country in the fist place.

2. Your also forgeting the point about moving his children as well.

3. This is a moot argumentative point that were discussing which neither proves nor disproves his guilt. There are much more important topics to argue about.

4. Yes, I know the difference between North and South Korea. If Mr. Kim went back to North Korea, this case would have a whole different angle to it.

I think the thing that mattc doesn't agree with is the inference that he might be involved in his wife's murder.

we know that he almost certianly has an alibi. He was at store.

THus, if he is involved it has to be some sort of hit. If someone was to do a hit, why would they bother disposing of body....and stabbing someone 9 times.

For some reason, the killer was angry at suya kim. he mighta had a thing against asian people. he might have had an affair with her. The key to solving this case is where was she going and did anyone see her? what has she been telling her friends and such.

I think the thing that mattc doesn't agree with is the inference that he might be involved in his wife's murder.

we know that he almost certianly has an alibi. He was at store.

THus, if he is involved it has to be some sort of hit. If someone was to do a hit, why would they bother disposing of body....and stabbing someone 9 times.

For some reason, the killer was angry at suya kim. he mighta had a thing against asian people. he might have had an affair with her. The key to solving this case is where was she going and did anyone see her? what has she been telling her friends and such.

That's what they all say, they were at work etc. Have you ever seen Forensic Files or numerous other shows tho? How much did they verify that he was at work and was not away from work at any time?

THus, if he is involved it has to be some sort of hit. If someone was to do a hit, why would they bother disposing of body....and stabbing someone 9 times.

1.One of the things that "Iceman" Kulkinski(sp?) proved was that hitman will kill targets anyway the client wants them to kill them. If they want them to suffer he'll make them suffer. If he wants it done brutally, he'll do it brutally.

2. It's possible that the hitman killed her like that to avoid it being considered a hit. If he kills the woman several times he knows that the killing will be considered a crime of passion or a rape.

3. It may not necessarily be that he disposed of the body as much as he took the body away from the crime scene and most likely cleaned up that crime scene as well as himself.

That's what they all say, they were at work etc. Have you ever seen Forensic Files or numerous other shows tho? How much did they verify that he was at work and was not away from work at any time?

I am assuming they did. Although its an assumption, I am almost 100 percent sure they verified it in the initial stages. What kind of incompetent detective wouldn't?

The key thing in a woman's disappearance is to talk to the woman's friends. women confide in their friends more then men.

I watch all the shows. This why we can postulate all these wierd theories but in all the shows everyone narrows in on a central theory or theories and eliminate the very weak ones early.

1.One of the things that "Iceman" Kulkinski(sp?) proved was that hitman will kill targets anyway the client wants them to kill them. If they want them to suffer he'll make them suffer. If he wants it done brutally, he'll do it brutally.

Fortunately, most hits are not like that.



2. It's possible that the hitman killed her like that to avoid it being considered a hit. If he kills the woman several times he knows that the killing will be considered a crime of passion or a rape.



and risk a messier crime? no way. that does not outweigh the risk of being caught. thats just illogical and hitmen aren't illogical killers.


3. It may not necessarily be that he disposed of the body as much as he took the body away from the crime scene and most likely cleaned up that crime scene as well as himself.

valid. i agree. but why would a hitman need to do that. you would have to be an incredibly stupid hitman to hit someone in a place where it would lead to you. thus why take it from the crime scene. of course, their maybe evidence there that might lead to you that would lead to you having to clean up, but why leave more incriminating evidence trying to take the body away from crime scene.

again, sometimes people arent narrowing down on the most likely scenarios. there are only a few likely scenarios here.

the real reason why this case hasn't been solved is that there has been very little pressure on the police department.

.

1. It couldn't have been that thriving back then, considering they left the country in the fist place.

2. Your also forgeting the point about moving his children as well.

3. This is a moot argumentative point that were discussing which neither proves nor disproves his guilt. There are much more important topics to argue about.

4. Yes, I know the difference between North and South Korea. If Mr. Kim went back to North Korea, this case would have a whole different angle to it.

I understand your points, and I figured you knew the difference between N and S Korea. But your original post implied that it was strange that he would want to go back to S Korea, as though it was not a place anyone would return if they could live in the US. Remember, his wife was murdered here, and no one was caught. I'm not saying that a husband couldn't kill his wife, but I am sure that the husband was the first person questioned, interrogated by the police (they always focus on the spouse first).

I also take issue with the notion that "there are much more important topics to argue about." This is a forum for Unsolved Mystery cases, and I assumed that the death of a woman that remains unsolved would be something worth discussing. Seriously, I'm not trying to argue at all, I just read your initial post and felt that you misunderstood S. Korea. Even back in the 1980's (which is when I traveled there), it was a very well developed country, and it is perfectly understandable why Mr. Kim would want to go back home, given what happened to him in the US. That's what makes this case so tragic.

I also take issue with the notion that "there are much more important topics to argue about." This is a forum for Unsolved Mystery cases, and I assumed that the death of a woman that remains unsolved would be something worth discussing. Seriously, I'm not trying to argue at all, I just read your initial post and felt that you misunderstood S. Korea. Even back in the 1980's (which is when I traveled there), it was a very well developed country, and it is perfectly understandable why Mr. Kim would want to go back home, given what happened to him in the US. That's what makes this case so tragic.

I meant much more important topics to discuss about this case and possible solutions.

Mr Kim's going back to S. Korea neither proves or disprove his guilt.

A much more important topic regarding this case IMHO, is whether this killer was a jogger or whether he just stripped down to clean up the crime.I believe the latter.

Quote:

2. It's possible that the hitman killed her like that to avoid it being considered a hit. If he kills the woman several times he knows that the killing will be considered a crime of passion or a rape.




and risk a messier crime? no way. that does not outweigh the risk of being caught. thats just illogical and hitmen aren't illogical killers.

He's already using a knife. What difference does it make whether you stab her 5 times or 9 times?

Now, A good point that you made me realize is that she was just stabbed, her throat was not cut, which is the usual coup de grace.

She was also not sexual molested (if I understand correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
1.One of the things that "Iceman" Kulkinski(sp?) proved was that hitman will kill targets anyway the client wants them to kill them. If they want them to suffer he'll make them suffer. If he wants it done brutally, he'll do it brutally.


Fortunately, most hits are not like that.

Depends on the reason for the hit. we tend to forget that some people who just want to kill someone out of vengeace hire proxies all the time.


again, sometimes people arent narrowing down on the most likely scenarios. there are only a few likely scenarios here.

1. Serial killer who had killed non-Asian women and this was his first Asian. Or a serial killer who committed his crimes in another state and this is his first (or only) kill in New York state

2. A mentally unstable customer of their store who took the Kims actions way overboard and developed an imaginary hatred for them. This murder was his "vengeance" on them.

3. A racist who saw the Kims developing store as an example of minorities taking over America and he killed Ms. Kim as an act of "patriotism" as well as his own insecurities.

4. A "mistake murder" (Not to sound like a bigot, but quite a few caucasian men still have the "all you people look the same" concept ingained in them.)

5. A debt killing due to a possible involvment with Asian organized crime.
Perhaps in this case they decided to hire a non-Asian to do the dead. Perhaps Mr. Kim had gambling debts or borrowed money to keep the store running.

6. Botched rape attempt by a serial rapist who to this point had not killed a victim.

7. Attempted ransom kidnapping, robberyor mugging that went wrong.

As do law enforcement officers.



I don't know. It's not like he came from Japan and went back to Japan. How many people would go back to south Korea? There was a very good reason they left south korea. Sadness aside, I can't imagine it's the wisest thing financially to do? he still has a business that I assume was still profiable. It would be way cheaper to bring the family here than for him to go there. Not to mention the kids would have to be taken out of American culture to a whole new culture and school systems.

South Korea is a very hard country for law enforcement to find someone. i don't even know if they have an FBI office.(i would assume so due to the DMZ and CIAs prescence.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_korea

There are plenty of reasons why one would relocate back to S.Korea. It honestly sounds like you are confusing it with its neighbour to the north.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_korea

There are plenty of reasons why one would relocate back to S.Korea. It honestly sounds like you are confusing it with its neighbour to the north.

1. The point is moot. It neither proves nor disproves Mr. Kim's guilt. What difference does it make if Korea is a utopian dynasty or a 3rd world hell hole.
a. If Mr. Kim is trying to run away from murdering his wife, he's of course going to go to the place where he's most familliar with and can blend and disappear. South Korea makes perfect sense.
b. If he's completely broken up and can't stand living in the US without his wife, it would make little sense for him to go to United Kingdom, France or Japan. He might as well go back to where he came from

2. If Mr. Kim came from North Korea, he would in essence be a defector. Lee Harvey Oswald is the only person I know to defect back to his original country (and that was the US in his case!!). Even if Mr. Kim could do that, he would probably be executed the minute he lands in Pyongyang as a spy or a traitor! If Mr. Kim is willing to risk death and abject poverty in N. Korea, he really must have murdered his wife. :D

mastermind,

the question i have for you is. even all you theories on seriall killer, hit or whatever. The question is, surely she was in public where people could see her. nobody saw anything? if i am going to shop, and i say i'm going to shop, most likely my family members will know where i am going.

like i mentioned before, she knew her killer. this si why no one saw her anywhere. no store cameras? no nothing? comon...

mastermind,

the question i have for you is. even all you theories on seriall killer, hit or whatever. The question is, surely she was in public where people could see her. nobody saw anything? if i am going to shop, and i say i'm going to shop, most likely my family members will know where i am going.

like i mentioned before, she knew her killer. this si why no one saw her anywhere. no store cameras? no nothing? comon...

You bring up some excellent points..

1. The problem I have with her knowing her killer is that I would think that they would be able to find him by now. How many caucasian men could she have known well enough to be that friendly with. How many close caucasian friends could she possibly have being an Asian Immigrant in a mostly Asian community? Maybe three or four at best? I guess there could be several professional people she could know.. doctors, lawyers, moonlighting police officer, delivery man, employee of the shop, customers, landlords.etc. But how friendly would she be with such people? I also imagine she still had trouble with the english language which would make interacting with American people difficult.

2. If the police are right and our suspect is a cab or livery driver, he has a very good method of picking her up with no fuss and delivering her to the murder scene with no fuss. He could simply have picked her up as a fare, make an excuse to take her somewhere and then discretely drag her or force her in.

3. Other than an affair, I can't think of a reason that she would go to the killers house unless forced to. I could definitely see her going to the killers office or workplace, but would the killer be so bold as to kill her there?

I wonder if Mrs. Kim went to college, or took coarses somewhere? Maybe she became romantically involved there. If she had an affair that would explain why here husband and family would not know of him and why he wouldn't be brought up as a person of interest.

4. It should be pointed out that it is possible that the suspect that was seen by the security guard is in fact Asian or half-Asian. The security guard would only know of the stereotypical qualities of Asian people, not knowing that some of them don't have slanted eyes and some don;t have dark hair.

ok lets go over some of the known details of this case.

1. She left to go shopping while her husband was working at the store.
A. Her car was found at her residence.
-This means she was either abducted from home or hitched a ride on a taxi/bus.
-If she did catch a cab that would fit the unsolved mystery angle of the killer being a cab driver.

2. Her body was dumped in a trash bin at a abandoned building.
A. The killer probably chose this location because of it being abandoned.
B. In NYC there is not too many other places more convienant to dispose of the body than a dumpster. (not too many areas to bury or dispose of a body by other means.)

This leads me to this question. Why would a killer choose to dump a body at a location with a substantial chance of being seen rather than driving out of town to get rid of it?

my answer is he had to get the car back somewhere and it was his only means of body disposal.

I also believe that the taiwan lady's car was used in the murder. I think that the killer abducted her in a taxi and brought her to another location where he killed her. He then brought the cab back to his work. He had access to the taiwan womans car by some means. He must have prepared her body real well and placed her in the trunk of the car and disposed of all the evidence he could have before returning it. The blood on his shirt must have came from taking her out of the trunk and making contact with the body.

Hmm, personally, I do think that the husband is innocent in this case. Personally, I think some here are making much a do about nothing with him moving back to South Korea. South Korea was hardly a dump back in the early 80's when the Kim's came to this country. They wanted to try things in America, that is not uncommon. They were not in the poor house there it seemed to me, but they wanted to give the American dream a go. South Korea even in the early 80's was a thriving country, technological mecca, very modern and with a solid economy. You see people moving here from South Korea, Japan, China, quite regularly.

I am not really sure why people find the husbands story lame. So basically he must have killed his wife and be a bad parent too because he moved his kids? What was he supposed to do? Both his sons were under the age of 10 when their mother was killed. The husband stayed in the U.S. for two years after his wife's murder so it was not like he packed up shop and hightailed it back to South Korea after the murder.

I say, the husband moved back to South Korea because he could not get over his wife's death staying here. Maybe he could not get over it in South Korea either but at least he felt he could give his life another go there and that the move would be better for himself and his children. He closed down his business and moved back to his native country. He let the authorities know where he was, they knew where he was all the time, hell, UM found him.

I am not really sure why people find the husbands story lame. So basically he must have killed his wife and be a bad parent too because he moved his kids?

1.It isn't so much that as opposed to the concept that she may have went willingly with her murderer. This murder most likely occured in a building of some sort. Why the heck did she go there?

2.My point ultimately is that in a case like this, I don;t think the husband should be ruled out completely. He certainly isn't the prime suspect, but he should be investigated thoroughly.

3. It's important to keep in mind that Mrs Kim was the murder victim, but she may not be the ultimate target. This act may have been done as a attack to Mr. Kim, via Mrs. Kim. Mr. Kim may have enemies that we do not know about.

1.It isn't so much that as opposed to the concept that she may have went willingly with her murderer. This murder most likely occured in a building of some sort. Why the heck did she go there?

2.My point ultimately is that in a case like this, I don;t think the husband should be ruled out completely. He certainly isn't the prime suspect, but he should be investigated thoroughly.

3. It's important to keep in mind that Mrs Kim was the murder victim, but she may not be the ultimate target. This act may have been done as a attack to Mr. Kim, via Mrs. Kim. Mr. Kim may have enemies that we do not know about.

I almost certain that LE did investigate him thoroughly. Suppose it was a hit, as you are suggesting. Why hit the wife. why not hit the target, mr. kim?

if it was a hit, why commit the crime in such a messy fashion. why transfer the body from scene of crime? that makes no sense. i am certain that LE knows more and of course is withholding information.

this crime was a crime of anger/passion. whether its a hate crime or the person knew her, there was passion involved in here. i stick to my theory that she knew her killer and in fact was probably visiting him that day.

I almost certain that LE did investigate him thoroughly. Suppose it was a hit, as you are suggesting. Why hit the wife. why not hit the target, mr. kim?

Because if you kill Mr. Kim, they can't get their money back. That's why they threaten to kill people close to you like you family.

In fact, i wonder if Mrs. Kim might have been kidnapped first and it was a botched kidnapping.

this crime was a crime of anger/passion. whether its a hate crime or the person knew her, there was passion involved in here. i stick to my theory that she knew her killer and in fact was probably visiting him that day

I wonder if Mrs Kim was taking courses somewhere.

Because if you kill Mr. Kim, they can't get their money back. That's why they threaten to kill people close to you like you family.

In fact, i wonder if Mrs. Kim might have been kidnapped first and it was a botched kidnapping.



I wonder if Mrs Kim was taking courses somewhere.

i can sorta buy the botched kidnapping. but there is no way mr. kim can pay them if they kill mrs. kim. as for if it was a botched kidnapping, the way she was murdered would have to be more of "showing her as an example" than actual botched kidnapping. I think we would have to see how she was stabbed. if she was stabbed in the front she most likely knew her killer and itt was personal. where were defense marks? etc etc.

i can sorta buy the botched kidnapping. but there is no way mr. kim can pay them if they kill mrs. kim

He has children that could be killed as well.

That being said, I am coming around to the idea of her being killed by a known acquaitance.

But this has to be someone that she would be comfortable going to his home.

He has children that could be killed as well.

That being said, I am coming around to the idea of her being killed by a known acquaitance.

But this has to be someone that she would be comfortable going to his home.

yeah this discussion has been interesting no doubt. but thats what i've been thinking all along. she went during the day...time of death was hours before her body was found at 11pm at night. I find it hard to believe someone kidnapped her in broad daylight took her someplace secret and stabbed her a bunch of times for it to be a hit.

this case is definately frustrating. I know from personal experiences that asian families that they often times don't pursue justice as vigorously as someone like...the goldman family (oj simpson). I think this might be hindering the resolution of the case. If my gut instinct affair theory holds true, what you have to understand is it would probably bring more shame to family than resolution especially with a conservative korean culture/family/community. What frustrates me is that this case is very solvable. I wonder if they have dna in this case. I"m sure they must have some sort of forensic evidence.

This leads me to this question. Why would a killer choose to dump a body at a location with a substantial chance of being seen rather than driving out of town to get rid of it?

Killers tend to dump in areas they are familar with. The killer likely knew the building was abandoned and didn't plan on a security guard being present.

Driving out of town wouldn't make sense. First, he'd have to drive a goodly way to get to a rural area, and unless he was familar with the area, the chances of getting lost are high and the danger of standing out in an unfamilar area are likewise high. Activity at 3am in NYC isn't uncommon; activity at 3am in many NYC suburbs would be.

This case doesn't make sense as a hit at all. Had it not been for the accidential discovery of the security guard, her body would have likely not been found. The whole point of a hit is to know about it.

Hi Everyone,
I too have wondered about the Su Ya Kim case. Some ideas crossed my mind and I wondered what you guys thought about them. I grew up in the NY area. (But am currently in school in another part of the country). Su Ya Kim's body was found in the Bedford Stuyvesant area of Brooklyn (Bed-Stuy). I have occasionally passed through Bed Stuy. I know that Bed-Stuy is a predominantly working class, black and Latino community, and the driver was white. I too wonder if he may have been a cab driver or livery driver, for i seriously doubt that he lived in the area.
I also wonder this...and I don't know if I am going out on a limb here. Do you think that the suspect dumped Su Ya Kim's body in Bedford Stuyvesant to throw off suspicion on him, and perhaps lead police to think that someone black or Latino had committed the crime? What if the security guard hadn't discovered the killer at all? If the killer had totally gotten away undetected, would the police have then assumed taht, given Bed Stuy's racial makeup, the killer was not white?
I don't think I ever remember hearing about the case in the papers (then again, I was very young when it would have happened, in 1991). I too was struck by the coincidence in which the suspect's car was mistakenly traced to the Taiwanese student--both she and Su Ya Kim were foreign born Asian females residing in the Greater NY area. I am also familiar with CW post college, which is where the Taiwanese student was attending school...about a half hour or 45 minutes from brooklyn/Queens (with traffic). In fact my HS graduation ceremony was held on the CW post campus. Very curious coincidences...

Welcome to the forum, Always good to have a fellow Noo Yawker on this site. I grew up in Bronx, NY.:)


I know that Bed-Stuy is a predominantly working class, black and Latino community, and the driver was white. I too wonder if he may have been a cab driver or livery driver, for i seriously doubt that he lived in the area.
I also wonder this...and I don't know if I am going out on a limb here. Do you think that the suspect dumped Su Ya Kim's body in Bedford Stuyvesant to throw off suspicion on him, and perhaps lead police to think that someone black or Latino had committed the crime?

The more likely reason he took the body to that dumpster was that it was far away from the place that she was murdered, which is in most likelihood his home, workplace ore a hotel. He probably did think that it would be lost amongst the other murders that happened in the city and in that area.

Phanekim, I'm starting to come around to your theory of Mrs. Kim being killed by a man she was having an affair with.

The license plate issue is an interesting one, and a couple of possabilities come to mind: (1) the guard got the number wrong - certainly possible and I suppose the simplest explanation; that the cars were both blue nissans was just coincidence then; (2) it was an out-of-state plate - I consider this not very probable, since NY plates are fairly distictive and anyone familar with them (as I'd presume a NY resident to be) and able to observe the plate long enough to get a partial number would have instantly recognized a non-NY plate, even if they couldn't id the state/province; (3) one possability not mentioned in the segment was that the killer could have "borrowed" the plate from the student's car, replacing it after the murder - on the one hand, this would explain the discrepancy perfectly (even the matching cars), but on the other, it seems risky - how would the killer know the plates would not be missed? How would he know he would not be observed removing and replacing them? It seems more troublesome than just stealing a car to use for the murder, then dumping it.

I recently re-watched this segment, and frankly, feel the license plate issue is a red herring. I think Jones just got the number wrong and it just so happened that they found a blue nissan that matched it. Not really that surprising, considering the ten of millions of people in the NYC metro area and the thousands, if not tens of thousands of blue nissans as well. I don't ascribe any significance to the fact that an asian woman owned the car.

ok lets go over some of the known details of this case.

1. She left to go shopping while her husband was working at the store.
A. Her car was found at her residence.
-This means she was either abducted from home or hitched a ride on a taxi/bus.
-If she did catch a cab that would fit the unsolved mystery angle of the killer being a cab driver.

The date of the murder was a Saturday. The segment does not give us much in the way of a timeline, but we can calculate that Su Ya left her apartment in Queens around 5pm. If she told her mother-in-law or anyone else where she was going shopping, we weren't told.

We are told she lived in Queens. It's certainly possible that she could have taken a bus, a cab, or the subway. NYC certainly has sufficient public transit options that not taking her car is not, by itself, suspicious.

We don't know anything about Su Ya's transportation habits. We could surmise that Su Young being worried when he found her car indicates that Su Ya did not regularly use public transportation, but this isn't a very strong assumption without more information.

If Su Ya took her car, then she would have had to have been abducted from the garage. The segment shows a private garage, which complicates this theory, given that a private garage likely had a controlled entrance and there was no signs of struggle in the garage.

2. Her body was dumped in a trash bin at a abandoned building.
A. The killer probably chose this location because of it being abandoned.
B. In NYC there is not too many other places more convienant to dispose of the body than a dumpster. (not too many areas to bury or dispose of a body by other means.)

This leads me to this question. Why would a killer choose to dump a body at a location with a substantial chance of being seen rather than driving out of town to get rid of it?

my answer is he had to get the car back somewhere and it was his only means of body disposal.

This does raise an interesting point. Sure, 3am isn't exactly the busiest time in the world, but still NYC is NYC. Picking Bed-Stuy is odd though, since a white person would certainly stand out there. If the college student's car was used, though (and I don't think it was), it's even more illogical, since the killer would have had great dumping spots off an expressway, in the Sound, and in (more) rural Long Island just to get the car back.

I also believe that the taiwan lady's car was used in the murder. I think that the killer abducted her in a taxi and brought her to another location where he killed her. He then brought the cab back to his work. He had access to the taiwan womans car by some means. He must have prepared her body real well and placed her in the trunk of the car and disposed of all the evidence he could have before returning it. The blood on his shirt must have came from taking her out of the trunk and making contact with the body.

I don't think the girl's car had anything to do with the murder.

I've posted in this thread earlier. Just a few thoughts.

no rape. just murder. stabbed repeatedly. was it in back or in front. from what UM says, it feels like there's hate/passion behind it.

joe jones and husband could probably be cleared. Their whereabouts could probably be verified. if joe jones has no motive and cleared, his testimony stands as a good indicator...at the very least he knows he saw a white male.

he is a security guard who's meant to stay watchful. also, he was very specific in his identification of suspect. the insignia jogging shorts.

I believe LE knows who did it. they can't seal case. its hard to imagine this person now leaving prints on a fresh body. Not only that, the guy gave him a 20, that thing probably has his prints all over it.

partial license plate ID is still fairly accurate. joe jones wouldn't have to get most of it for LE to figure it out.

she was found naked. not sure how it plays in but it could be a critical bit of information.

3 am is when they found the body. i wonder what the time of death was and how accurate they can pinpoint it. time of death at 6pm is very diffferent from 1am.

shopping at 5pm? was it grocery shopping? i find it odd that someone would mall shop that late. if she was grocery shopping, i would think she would take her car. usually they have parking spots for that even a dense urban city and it would be convenient.

I've posted in this thread earlier. Just a few thoughts.

no rape. just murder. stabbed repeatedly. was it in back or in front. from what UM says, it feels like there's hate/passion behind it.

I agree. The only question for me is whether that hate/passion was specifically directed at Su Ya Kim or towards women/asians, etc.

joe jones and husband could probably be cleared. Their whereabouts could probably be verified. if joe jones has no motive and cleared, his testimony stands as a good indicator...at the very least he knows he saw a white male.

he is a security guard who's meant to stay watchful. also, he was very specific in his identification of suspect. the insignia jogging shorts.

I agree. If Jones had anything to do with the murder, he wouldn't have come forward as a witness. I also think the husband had nothing to do with it. Not only did he have an alibi, there was nothing to indicate LE's investigation indicated any skeletons that would counter the image of a devoted, hard-working couple. Frankly, that's why I think the affair theory advanced on the boards doesn't hold water. If we believe the husband, Su Ya worked long hours at the store, they spent most of the day together, and she was almost never out past 8pm. I find it hard to believe she could have fit a paramour into this schedule. Moreover, I'd imagine LE would have investigated and eliminated this possibility. NYPD isn't podunk sheriff force who don't have much homicide investigation experience.

I believe LE knows who did it. they can't seal case. its hard to imagine this person now leaving prints on a fresh body. Not only that, the guy gave him a 20, that thing probably has his prints all over it.

partial license plate ID is still fairly accurate. joe jones wouldn't have to get most of it for LE to figure it out.

You would think there would have been physical evidence. If LE did recover prints, they apparently haven't been matched.

As for the partial, we don't know how much of a partial it was. Moreover, it's fairly easy to transpose a number or letter. I think it's a red herring.

she was found naked. not sure how it plays in but it could be a critical bit of information.

3 am is when they found the body. i wonder what the time of death was and how accurate they can pinpoint it. time of death at 6pm is very diffferent from 1am.

Indeed. The segment doesn't get into time of death at all; my understanding of forensic techniques would be that while you could never really pinpoint an exact time, you should be able to narrow it down substantially. It really is critical, along with a better understanding of the timetable, to put together a viable scenario.

I can't accept that Kim left her apartment at 5pm and LE has no idea of where she went, etc. until her body was dumped at 3am. It's a bit frustrating that the segment didn't go into this at all.

shopping at 5pm? was it grocery shopping? i find it odd that someone would mall shop that late. if she was grocery shopping, i would think she would take her car. usually they have parking spots for that even a dense urban city and it would be convenient.

We just don't know and it's one of the biggest don't knows in the case.

Hey peeps, I'm new here.:wave:


Back on topic.... what if the killer used fake license plates? :confused:

Welcome to the forum Jackie!! :wave:

It is possible the killer used bogus license plates. but remember the Security guard may have been mistaken when he gave the #. happens all the time.

*Sighs* still can't believe the Security guard took the $ from the creepy dude and didn't investigate the situation further. it's so frustrating. he's gotta be the worse Security guard ever! I've said it before but his smile when admits it reminds me of a little kid whose hand got caught in the Cookie jar. :lol:

Welcome to the forum Jackie!! :wave:

It is possible the killer used bogus license plates. but remember the Security guard may have been mistaken when he gave the #. happens all the time.

*Sighs* still can't believe the Security guard took the $ from the creepy dude and didn't investigate the situation further. it's so frustrating. he's gotta be the worse Security guard ever! I've said it before but his smile when admits it reminds me of a little kid whose hand got caught in the Cookie jar. :lol:

He did though, he flagged down a cop right afterwards. What more could he really have done?

What more could he have done? he could have investigated the incident further! granted he couldn't arrest the guy just for being suspicious but he could have if he had looked in the dumpster before the guy booked it. I mean c'mon... the Blood on his shirt should have been a Red flag.

"hey sir! you can't dump here!"
*w/ blood on his shirt. & wearing running shorts and a tank top all at an ungoldy hour* "I can't?"
"No sir. you can't."
"Alright than." *leaves*
*Guard discovers body*

Really? :mad: so the guard gets off the hook because he contacted the Cops after the fact?*sighs* i'm getting all worked up over it. Hindsight is a bitch. he didn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed. and I guess it just really bugs the hell out of me.

You really expect an unarmed, minimum-wage "security guard" to potentially risk life and limb over what he thought was illegal dumping? If he thought the guy had just hurt someone, even more reason for him not to have confronted him.

Yeah I definitely don't think the security guard did anything wrong...like egswanso said he was probably making minimum wage and he also was unarmed. Obviously if anyone saw someone dumping a body in a dumpster their first instinct would be to run and get help, not confront the guy. Now I know the guard took money but at the time he probably just thought the guy was dumping some trash or possibly even drugs and it wasn't until after he took the money that he noticed the blood. And if he just turned a blind eye and walked away and didn't go back to see what was in the dumpster who knows how long it would have taken to find her body? And I doubt he got the license plate # wrong...what are the odds that the number he gives to police (if it was a wrong number) were to the exact same car he described the killer as driving? Way to coincidental IMO, I think the student HAD to have knew more than she was letting on. And the police sketch at the end looks more like an Asian man than a white guy...and in the dark I can see how someone could mistake that.

Hi I've been lurking off and on for awhile.
Alot of interesting theories here on this case. I agree the car sounds like a red herring but:


- what if the blood had been cleaned away (it doesn't seem like there was a thorough inspection of the car from the segment, luminol, etc)

- the fact that the engine was cool and the car hadn't been driven for several hours might not say much as what time did investigators get to the car? it was day in the segment.

It's a leap but if the owner of the car had a boyfriend who was into Asian women...

I also agree with the botched assault idea: just because she wasn't raped doesn't rule that out as a motive. She was nude after all.
What do you think?
I agree we need more info about the shopping plans and habits as well as an approximated death hour.
Has anybody been able to locate anything on the case other than the UM segment?

Surely the car mentioned was the car used by the nerd/surfer muderer guy. They obviously didn't investigate further into the matter.

Hi I've been lurking off and on for awhile.
Alot of interesting theories here on this case. I agree the car sounds like a red herring but:

- what if the blood had been cleaned away (it doesn't seem like there was a thorough inspection of the car from the segment, luminol, etc)

- the fact that the engine was cool and the car hadn't been driven for several hours might not say much as what time did investigators get to the car? it was day in the segment.

It's a leap but if the owner of the car had a boyfriend who was into Asian women...

From the segment, it appears that they found the car and questioned the owner the following day. The owner indicated that she had last driven the car at 10pm. It had no trace of blood or any other evidence linking it to Su Ya Kim. No-one else had access to the car. It had not been driven for hours. Unsaid, but almost certainly true, is that the car bore no evidence of being hot-wired.

It's clear the car is a red herring. While it's possible the killer might have switched license plates, I still think the most likely explanation is the partial was wrong. It's no surprise that with all the cars in NYS, they found a match; it wasn't like the killer was driving an uncommon car type.

I don't know why anyone ascribes any significance to the fact that the car was owned by a Taiwanese student. If the facts were the same, but Su Ya had been a Polish store owner and the car owner was a French student, would anyone be speculating a connection despite all the other evidence NOT connecting the two? I doubt it.

I also agree with the botched assault idea: just because she wasn't raped doesn't rule that out as a motive. She was nude after all.
What do you think?
I agree we need more info about the shopping plans and habits as well as an approximated death hour.
Has anybody been able to locate anything on the case other than the UM segment?

Possible. I haven't found anything on the case outside of UM and the discussions arising therefrom.

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

What about Su Ya's car? Do you think she drove it? The husband thought the car being there was odd, so that kind of suggests he expected her to have used it for the shopping trip. I just thought of something. What if she did make it home and was abducted before making it inside? Course there wasn't evidence of a struggle and no shopping bags were mentioned.

No evidence of a struggle outside the car also looks like she wasn't abducted before she left, too.

I think the key here really is in knowing more about her plans. She didn't take the car and her husband found that odd. If she had plans for a ride with a friend or something, no one came forward.

How likely do you think it is she was abducted in the garage with no signs of struggle?

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

What about Su Ya's car? Do you think she drove it? The husband thought the car being there was odd, so that kind of suggests he expected her to have used it for the shopping trip. I just thought of something. What if she did make it home and was abducted before making it inside? Course there wasn't evidence of a struggle and no shopping bags were mentioned.

Without knowing where she was going and her travel patterns, it's hard to say. Her husband could have been worried because she usually took her car, he could have been worried because she would use public transportation, but not at night, etc., etc. We just don't know.

No evidence of a struggle outside the car also looks like she wasn't abducted before she left, too.

I think the key here really is in knowing more about her plans. She didn't take the car and her husband found that odd. If she had plans for a ride with a friend or something, no one came forward.

How likely do you think it is she was abducted in the garage with no signs of struggle?

Next to impossible, IMO. If she had been abducted from the garage, there would be evidence of it.

The two things that keep nagging at me about Su Ya's murder (besides how brutal the stabbing was) are those two cold cars: Su Ya's and the one the police traced from the security guard. If she didn't go shopping, where did she go, and who went with her? Did she ever intend to go shopping? Did the security guard goof the plate number, off a digit or a letter? Or was that the right car after all?

What are the odds that the security guard would have messed up the license plate and the number he gave was registered to the EXACT same make and model he described the killer as driving. I don't believe he got it wrong.

The DPRK anyone yeah it that great "Juche/Sogun" country north of the DMZ AKA N. Korea . The DPRK kidnapped many people, fishermen near the DMZ or at se the NLL Norther Limit Line. As well the DPRK has subs that drop off spies I know it sounds crazy but on or two got stuck when they came too close to land as the spies were unable to swim out. Japan maybe worse during Colonial Korea many koreans moved to japan then started YMCA type group that did all sorts of things kidnapping ladies putting them in the hull with no bathroom and because they knew that they were Headed to the DPRK they tried to scratch out. Kin il-sung did anything he wanted so does Kim Jung-il and Kim Jung-un will too. Perhapse this was backed by the DPRK as I said above they'll do anything...

What are the odds that the security guard would have messed up the license plate and the number he gave was registered to the EXACT same make and model he described the killer as driving. I don't believe he got it wrong.


i've been saying this myself in previous posts with my theory. its highly unlikely he got it wrong. even if he got 3 numbers or 3 letters or anything...

another point is UM is clearly trying to gear the tips towards a certain suspect. they won't reveal details in order to filter out a credible witness. but its clear LE knows who it is and most likely tied into that car.

i've been saying all along...that is the car. just because there's no evidence in it doesn't mean it highly likely was the car.

i've been saying this myself in previous posts with my theory. its highly unlikely he got it wrong. even if he got 3 numbers or 3 letters or anything...

another point is UM is clearly trying to gear the tips towards a certain suspect. they won't reveal details in order to filter out a credible witness. but its clear LE knows who it is and most likely tied into that car.

i've been saying all along...that is the car. just because there's no evidence in it doesn't mean it highly likely was the car.

I think ya'll are not understanding how the "match" seemed to be made.

By definition, LE is only looking for cars with the same color, make, and model, so of course, that's going to match based upon the search terms. That doesn't make the search terms correct.

I also don't think the odds are partially unusual, either. It's a big state and a common car.

I think ya'll are not understanding how the "match" seemed to be made.

By definition, LE is only looking for cars with the same color, make, and model, so of course, that's going to match based upon the search terms. That doesn't make the search terms correct.

I also don't think the odds are partially unusual, either. It's a big state and a common car.

I can guarantee that if you went and altered one number on a license plate of any car it would take thousands before you got two that were the same identical car.

I can guarantee that if you went and altered one number on a license plate of any car it would take thousands before you got two that were the same identical car.

Very likely. And there are millions of cars registered in NYS, so you'd have a pretty good chance of finding a "match"

Mistaken identification is so common, I'm not sure why people can't accept that this almost certainly happened here.

Very likely. And there are millions of cars registered in NYS, so you'd have a pretty good chance of finding a "match"

Mistaken identification is so common, I'm not sure why people can't accept that this almost certainly happened here.

The reason is I was witness to a robbery and I gave LE the plate number. even with a partial plate id, you can narrow it down. he had make model year. the way license plates in california are done its 1 number/3 letters/3 numbers.

this is done for easy memory because its been studied cognitively that you memorize in chunks of 3-4. Besides the likelihood that even 3 numbers in addition with make and model would narrow it down greatly. even if there were other cars, wouldn't you think LE would have checked it out?

the reaosn it was mentioned is that this particular car was in neighborhood and was a match.

another thing is from my own personal experience is that the security guy notices a guy with blood, you dont think he got a real damn good look? you take all these factors and you compound it. not saying anything negative, i'm just saying my pov.

it feels clear UM was trying to get a certain individual ID'd. it seems quite certain they have a prime suspect in this case.

The reason is I was witness to a robbery and I gave LE the plate number. even with a partial plate id, you can narrow it down. he had make model year. the way license plates in california are done its 1 number/3 letters/3 numbers.

this is done for easy memory because its been studied cognitively that you memorize in chunks of 3-4. Besides the likelihood that even 3 numbers in addition with make and model would narrow it down greatly. even if there were other cars, wouldn't you think LE would have checked it out?

the reaosn it was mentioned is that this particular car was in neighborhood and was a match.

another thing is from my own personal experience is that the security guy notices a guy with blood, you dont think he got a real damn good look? you take all these factors and you compound it. not saying anything negative, i'm just saying my pov.

it feels clear UM was trying to get a certain individual ID'd. it seems quite certain they have a prime suspect in this case.

Not quite sure where you're going with this.

I can't say what NYPD did. I would certainly presume they investigated other options re: the car; specifically, pulling the DMV pictures of every registered owner of that kind of make/model and having the witness go through them; additionally, they should have run alternative combinations of the partial and done the same for any potential matches. Of course, neither of these would help much if the car wasn't registered to the killer and/or the partial contained a wrong number.

That license plate numbers are made to be remembered and that the guard may have had incentive to remember the plate is immaterial; it neither proves or disproves that he remembered the plate correctly.

They clearly do have a prime suspect, i.e., the individual who dumped Su Ya's body. The only problem is that his identity is unknown.

They have a suspect and there's no doubt in my mind that they had the correct car as well. As mentioned above, the security guard provided very specific details (the guy's jogging shorts, blood on his face, the way he stared at him after he dumped Su's body) which makes me think he definitely got the license plate number right. Maybe LE knows this is the right car or it is somehow connected, but they said that it wasn't because they didn't want to hinder the investigation.

Maybe LE knows this is the right car or it is somehow connected, but they said that it wasn't because they didn't want to hinder the investigation.

I suppose that's possible, although it doesn't make much sense.

Not quite sure where you're going with this.

I can't say what NYPD did. I would certainly presume they investigated other options re: the car; specifically, pulling the DMV pictures of every registered owner of that kind of make/model and having the witness go through them; additionally, they should have run alternative combinations of the partial and done the same for any potential matches. Of course, neither of these would help much if the car wasn't registered to the killer and/or the partial contained a wrong number.

That license plate numbers are made to be remembered and that the guard may have had incentive to remember the plate is immaterial; it neither proves or disproves that he remembered the plate correctly.

They clearly do have a prime suspect, i.e., the individual who dumped Su Ya's body. The only problem is that his identity is unknown.

I believe they do know the identity of the prime suspect. Almost always LE does. Its finding credible witnesses that is the problem and finding evidence to prosecute is the problem. LE doesn't release information to public because they want to verify credible witnesses. When they do give out information its for the clear purpose to aid in witnesses coming out.

it neither disproves or proves but it gives investigators something to work with. his certainty and his conscientiousness suggests he was very aware of the situation. legally it proves nothing but that doesn't matter. it surely increases the likelihood that he is accurate. why do you think they still administer lie detector tests (not forced). it still is a vital tool that can lead investigators in the right direction. it is never admissable in court but that doesn't matter it can lead towards information that is credible. his improved credibility in combination with even getting 3 consecutive numbers and letters, can narrow things down tremendously.

I believe they do know the identity of the prime suspect. Almost always LE does. Its finding credible witnesses that is the problem and finding evidence to prosecute is the problem. LE doesn't release information to public because they want to verify credible witnesses. When they do give out information its for the clear purpose to aid in witnesses coming out.

it neither disproves or proves but it gives investigators something to work with. his certainty and his conscientiousness suggests he was very aware of the situation. legally it proves nothing but that doesn't matter. it surely increases the likelihood that he is accurate. why do you think they still administer lie detector tests (not forced). it still is a vital tool that can lead investigators in the right direction. it is never admissable in court but that doesn't matter it can lead towards information that is credible. his improved credibility in combination with even getting 3 consecutive numbers and letters, can narrow things down tremendously.

I would disagree with your contention that LE "almost always" has a (meaningful) prime suspect. Sometimes they do, sure, but not so much in random killings.

I certainly agree with you that the security guard is a credible witness. I am not questioning this; I just think the evidence establishes he made a mistake; it happens.

Lie detector tests can be useful, but there is the Catch-22 with them: I would (almost) never advise a client to take one, since if the police focus in on you as a suspect, they are going to use them (and everything else you say) against you to the often exclusion of other suspects.

I would disagree with your contention that LE "almost always" has a (meaningful) prime suspect. Sometimes they do, sure, but not so much in random killings.

I certainly agree with you that the security guard is a credible witness. I am not questioning this; I just think the evidence establishes he made a mistake; it happens.

Lie detector tests can be useful, but there is the Catch-22 with them: I would (almost) never advise a client to take one, since if the police focus in on you as a suspect, they are going to use them (and everything else you say) against you to the often exclusion of other suspects.

i agree there is a chance he made a mistake. my contention is that i think its highly unlikely.

i would understand that you would never advise a client to take one. and there are several drawbacks to them. but this is a topic that can be beaten down.

the problem is that this is highly unlikely to be a random killing. I elucidated this fact in my previous posts. Su Ya most likely knew her killer. she was stabbed repeatedly. there are other factors i've mentioned in previous posts as well. this again doesn't mean that this eliminates random killing, however, this makes it highly likely she knew her killer.

i would love to see the evidence they've gotten on this case. i've just love to see the case file on this one.

the problem is that this is highly unlikely to be a random killing. I elucidated this fact in my previous posts. Su Ya most likely knew her killer. she was stabbed repeatedly. there are other factors i've mentioned in previous posts as well. this again doesn't mean that this eliminates random killing, however, this makes it highly likely she knew her killer.

i would love to see the evidence they've gotten on this case. i've just love to see the case file on this one.

I'd love to see it as well. From the facts presented in the segment, I don't think the killer was known to her; but so much is left out of the segment that this opinion could easily change with more facts.

The overkill, for one, could certainly signify a crime of passion type killing, but it could also signify a serial killer type - the overkill, the use of the intimate weapon, etc.

It's the classic problem with UM segments; gaps in the story allow numerous hypothesis and assumptions which often would become non-issues if we knew all the facts at hand.

Trying to find information about this case on AccessWorld News has reminded me about exactly how bad things were in New York City up until about 1995. In 1991, there were over 2,100 murders in New York City - 2,100! Think about that number for a minute.

By way of contrast, in New York City in 2009, there were 412 murders.

It's worth noting that Law & Order began in 1990, at the height of the madness.

Looking through some of the accounts, I just wonder how many of these murders were ever solved.

The New York Times apparently never even bothered to report the discovery of Kim's body. Wasn't newsworthy in 1991 - bodies, in the plural, were being found every day.

I was looking to try to see if the spelling of Su-Ya Kim's name we've assumed here is correct; I assume this spelling got picked up from the Unsolved Mysteries website, but I think it is important to remember with Korean names what we are looking at is a transliteration. UM has it as su-ya, but it could be without a hyphen, or Soo Ya, or Soo-Ya, etc. Kim seems less open for question, so I looked for search terms like "Kim" and "murder," "body," etc. through The New York Times from the time of the murder, but... nothing.

Personally, I tend to think this was a planned murder,with robbery/financial gain as the motive. I think the security guard was telling the truth. He admitted to taking $20 from the potential killer, and when he and his friend saw Mrs. Kim's body,they immediately reported it. I dont believe Mr. Kim had anything to do with it.

Trying to find information about this case on AccessWorld News has reminded me about exactly how bad things were in New York City up until about 1995. In 1991, there were over 2,100 murders in New York City - 2,100! Think about that number for a minute.

By way of contrast, in New York City in 2009, there were 412 murders.

It's worth noting that Law & Order began in 1990, at the height of the madness.

Looking through some of the accounts, I just wonder how many of these murders were ever solved.

The New York Times apparently never even bothered to report the discovery of Kim's body. Wasn't newsworthy in 1991 - bodies, in the plural, were being found every day.

I was looking to try to see if the spelling of Su-Ya Kim's name we've assumed here is correct; I assume this spelling got picked up from the Unsolved Mysteries website, but I think it is important to remember with Korean names what we are looking at is a transliteration. UM has it as su-ya, but it could be without a hyphen, or Soo Ya, or Soo-Ya, etc. Kim seems less open for question, so I looked for search terms like "Kim" and "murder," "body," etc. through The New York Times from the time of the murder, but... nothing.

You might have better luck in the Post or the News... but yeah, sadly, another dead body in early 90s NYC likely wasn't extremely newsworthy.

One question I would have is whether she was already in the nude when she was stabbed or whether she was stabbed with her clothes on, and then later stripped. They can often tell this sort of thing by whether or not there are any fibers from clothing in stab wounds.

Not sure what difference it makes, but it would be one more thing to know.

As far as whether this woman was having an affair, I am not in a position to know one way or another, obviously, but most of the reasons put forward for making that supposition are strained. IIRC, the poster who originally floated that theory cited the fact that Kim had apparently not taken her car with her for her shopping trip; but, as many posters have already pointed out, a car would NOT be necessary for a shopping trip in New York City, and, in many cases, probably wouldn't even be desirable, particularly if you were going into Manhattan. Parking in Manhattan is no joke, and if you need to use a garage, even in 1991, you were going to get totally gouged on pricing.

However, the one thing that makes this a little less likely to be purely random, IMHO, is that it happened in New York City. It's no simple thing to kidnap a woman off the street in New York during the day, which is when Kim's shopping trip began, and gain control of her - somebody will see it. At the time this happened, the light part of the day is at its longest, making a kidnapping that much harder to pull off. If Kim really was just headed out on a shopping trip, and she was ordinarily home by 8:00PM from such trips (the time her husband got home that night, and, according to the segment, he was worried right away when she wasn't there), then that means her initial "problem" must have happened during daylight hours. This is unusual in a random situation in a place like NYC, I would think. So there is reason to suspect that perhaps this was not RANDOM, precisely.

The car being not involved is really difficult to accept, IMHO. A mostly complete plate number pointing to a car of the same make and color as the witness who got the plate number said he saw is too tantalizing a coincidence. You get the sense that the police did their due diligence at the time, but I do wonder if it might not be worth re-interviewing the woman who owned the car, if she can be located. I mean, suppose, just suppose, at the time she had a boyfriend, and she and the boyfriend, like a couple of college students, liked smoking weed together now and again. Then suppose one day she loans the car to the boyfriend because he asks, and when he returns he asks her not to say anything about having loaned him the car in case anyone asks. When she asks what the problem was, he says he thinks maybe a cop saw him scoring a little weed and is afraid the police might come looking for him.

It's highly speculative, obviously, but the point is she might have had a boyfriend she was protecting, and she might have thought she was protecting him from something really pretty innocuous. Maybe not, but I feel like now, with all these years having passed, if she was protecting anyone then, she would probably be less inclined to do so now. That's why I think it might be worth a second look - if she had any reason not to fully cooperate in 1991, she would probably not have such qualms in 2010, unless she herself was the killer - doubtful.

Of course, she could be long gone back to Taiwan by now.

You might have better luck in the Post or the News... but yeah, sadly, another dead body in early 90s NYC likely wasn't extremely newsworthy.

I thought of that, but those papers' online archives only extend back to the beginning of the 2000s.

As do law enforcement officers.



I don't know. It's not like he came from Japan and went back to Japan. How many people would go back to south Korea? There was a very good reason they left south korea. Sadness aside, I can't imagine it's the wisest thing financially to do? he still has a business that I assume was still profiable. It would be way cheaper to bring the family here than for him to go there. Not to mention the kids would have to be taken out of American culture to a whole new culture and school systems.

South Korea is a very hard country for law enforcement to find someone. i don't even know if they have an FBI office.(i would assume so due to the DMZ and CIAs prescence.)

There's also a brisk meth trade and 25,000 troops in South Korea so there's definitely a American law enforcement presence there.

Koreans are required to carry a national ID card and update it when/if they move. Unless someone is hiding, then tracking them down there wouldn't be too difficult.

Well, a couple of things:

The guy could have made a "fake license plate" and placed it on the car, which isnt that hard to do. He either had access to the DMV records or saw this car on campus and created a clever plate to deceive people. You cant tell a fake plate at night btw, which is also why he didnt speed away. Had he known the plate was his, he wouldnt have lingered. That is the first issue with this case.


The second issue is that she willingly went with him, albeit with an affair, but probably he offered to buy a substanial amount of stuff from her and wanted to meet her to buy the items. This was not a random kililng, the overkill meant he couldnt let her identify him, so either an affair or a buyer/seller relationship.

DNA evidence would also hold the solution to this to confirm if there was sex, involved. It isnt an Asian hate crime, it could be another asian competitor though, trying to eliminate her.

I think the Taiwan girl had no involvement and her plate was copied and placed on his car, obviously if stopped, the car wouldnt look suspicious. A very brilliant idea on the part of the killer

The killer always looked to me as a nerd crossed with a surfer. Does anyone know the exact location of where the body was found? it would be interesting to see on Google Earth.

I wish LE would go back and look deeper into the Taiwanese student, because I'm almost certain that Jones got the right car. There's no way he'd be able to give a wrong license plate number but it just so happens to be the exact make and model he described the killer driving. It just wouldn't happen.

I wish LE would go back and look deeper into the Taiwanese student, because I'm almost certain that Jones got the right car. There's no way he'd be able to give a wrong license plate number but it just so happens to be the exact make and model he described the killer driving. It just wouldn't happen.

I know I'm in the minority of people who don't think the student's car had anything to do with it, but I again watched the segment and just wanted to point out the following:

The Detective on the case says that "We ran all the Nissons that fit that description with that partial plate" - so the police are already starting out with the exact make and model. Given the number of cars and the number of Nissons, it's just not surprising they found a match. And that the owner of the car and Kim were both Asian is irrelevant, IMHO. There are lots of Asians in the NY Metro area.

I know I'm in the minority of people who don't think the student's car had anything to do with it, but I again watched the segment and just wanted to point out the following:

The Detective on the case says that "We ran all the Nissons that fit that description with that partial plate" - so the police are already starting out with the exact make and model. Given the number of cars and the number of Nissons, it's just not surprising they found a match. And that the owner of the car and Kim were both Asian is irrelevant, IMHO. There are lots of Asians in the NY Metro area.

But why did LE feel the need to zero in on that particular car, and why was it highlighted on UM? The detective says this in the segment, “We ran all the Nissans that fit that description with that plate number in New York City and we tried to match registered owners by using a partial plate. And we were able to come up with one match.”

The guy was obviously from the NY area, since the location of the dumpsite was not visible from the street just driving by. Unless this guy lifted the plates from the car and put them on his, I don't see how's there's any other explanation other than that was the car the killer used. Looking at the composite more, it appears as though (despite UM's depiction of the killer being a white male) that Su Ya's killer looks Asian. See for yourself:

http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/images/cases/mur_su_ya_kim2.jpg

But why did LE feel the need to zero in on that particular car, and why was it highlighted on UM? The detective says this in the segment, “We ran all the Nissans that fit that description with that plate number in New York City and we tried to match registered owners by using a partial plate. And we were able to come up with one match.”

It was a lead, potentially a good one, but the partial was wrong. It was highlighted on UM because of the "mystery" factor it adds. One thing I wonder is whether NYPD ran variations of the partial - one would hope they did, but it's not stated in the segment. I would suspect that variations of the partial would also produce hits.

The guy was obviously from the NY area, since the location of the dumpsite was not visible from the street just driving by. Unless this guy lifted the plates from the car and put them on his, I don't see how's there's any other explanation other than that was the car the killer used. Looking at the composite more, it appears as though (despite UM's depiction of the killer being a white male) that Su Ya's killer looks Asian. See for yourself:

http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/images/cases/mur_su_ya_kim2.jpg

There are tens of millions of people from the NY area. I think the police theory that he could have been a cabbie or delivery person is sound; however, he could have just scoped out that area and identified the dumpster as a good dump-site (and it was, but for the security guard).

I think Jones just got the plate wrong. I suppose the composite looks vaguely Asian, but even given the known problem of cross-racial identification, I would accept that Jones saw a blond white man, not an Asian wearing a wig.

I still think the key to solving the crime is Kim's whereabouts between 5pm and 3am. I think it's interesting the segment does not mention this AT ALL - do police really not have any idea where Kim went when she went shopping? Or is this a hold-back (and if so, why, since it would presumably aid in finding out what happened).

i think jones got the plate right....i mean, it lead the cops to the Nissan, didnt it? If he read it wrong, what are the chances that the wrong reading leads to another nissan??

one angle that is not mentioned is the husband. He moves back to korea, but did he get any sort of settlement insurance wise??? He speaks through an interpretor which tells me he does not speak english. Speaking english in the states is essential if you truely plan on enjoying living here. Maybe he wanted to go back to korea himself but she didnt? Maybe he sensed an affair? Its pretty rare when immigrants move back to their home country particularly if they found success in their new homeland.......

I don't see how Jones could have gotten the plate wrong, but by doing so managed to get the license plate of a completely different car, but it's the same make, model, and description of the one he saw the killer driving. Unless UM was reporting some misinformation, I still think there's no way he could have gotten it wrong.

i think jones got the plate right....i mean, it lead the cops to the Nissan, didnt it? If he read it wrong, what are the chances that the wrong reading leads to another nissan??

one angle that is not mentioned is the husband. He moves back to korea, but did he get any sort of settlement insurance wise??? He speaks through an interpretor which tells me he does not speak english. Speaking english in the states is essential if you truely plan on enjoying living here. Maybe he wanted to go back to korea himself but she didnt? Maybe he sensed an affair? Its pretty rare when immigrants move back to their home country particularly if they found success in their new homeland.......

If you've ever been in NY, you'd know that alot of the people don't speak english there. This is getting worse by the day with illegal immigrants. You can't really go off it.

I can understand the husband leaving. He was probably scared to death for himself and his family and wanted to get away from it. It's pretty common with people on UM.

I wonder if the police investigated other state's liscense plates. NY is not that far from NJ or PA, so it's possible the killer could have been from there. I would have also investigated the killer wearing shorts with the sailor symbol on them.

I believe Jones's story, but I can't believe that he wouldn't do something more. Come on, there's a guy with blood on his shirt and he's trying to throw something away. Hello? Anyone home? I'm sure he was scared but he could have done something, anything more.

I can't believe he also admitted to taking the $20 lol Comes across as such a cheap-skate there and I'm sure his job probably fired him for that. That little money exchange hurt's Jones' reputation a little bit.

But didn't an examination of the car conclude that the car hadn't been driven recently? Then again, I don't know how accurate such analysis is of cars. Just because it was cold the next morning doesn't mean that it wasn't run the night before.

I believe Joe Jones. I think his admitting that he let the guy dump for the money is a sign that he's not trying to make his character more pristine than it is or create a facade of any kind. It was dark, and there wasn't enough blood- probably- to make Jones think a murder had been committed. Can you imagine what would have happened if he had asked the guy what he was dumping?

I think they should have looked into the exchange students friends to see if anyone matched the suspect's description.

Rzombie... I said the exact same thing about Jones and his taking the $. when he admitted it he looked like a kid whose hand got caught in the Cookie jar. :-) Now at least he owned up to it and admitted to doing it! To me that says something about his character despite the fact he *did* take a bribe.

I also thought he could've done more... but like Wishfuldreamer said he told UM he didn't see the blood until after the creeper left. What if the creeper had a gun or knife on him? who knows what could've happened if Jones had seen the blood or started to ask more questions?

It is frustrating.... but at least Jones was able to give the Police *something* to go on.

Jones was probably scared, which is why he didn't do more. What more could he have done? Su Ya was already dead, and he was standing in a dark alley with a stranger dumping something with blood on his shirt. I'd say 9 out of 10 people would have walked away and did the same thing Jones did. What if the guy was armed?

Jones was probably scared, which is why he didn't do more. What more could he have done? Su Ya was already dead, and he was standing in a dark alley with a stranger dumping something with blood on his shirt. I'd say 9 out of 10 people would have walked away and did the same thing Jones did. What if the guy was armed?
Agreed. It was bold enough to even ask the guy what was up with the blood on his shirt.

Joe was a security guard, IIRC? But from what I gathered in the segment, it didn't seem like he was armed.

Joe was a security guard, IIRC? But from what I gathered in the segment, it didn't seem like he was armed.

Yep Joe Jones was an unarmed security guard who was supposed to patrol around a building when he spotting the killer dumping Su Ya's body.

Why didn't they take prints off of the 20 dollar bill?

There may not have been any usable prints on the bill. Or Jones may not have initially told LE that he accepted the $20 from the killer, and spent it shortly after. A number of things could have happened.

I just got done watching this story. The car in question is interesting enough. It was registered to a Taiwanese woman who was a local student but she said she hadn't driven it since the night before Su-Ya's body was found. Makes me think someone stole this lady's car and used it or she knows the person who killed Su-Ya Kim and lent it to him.

I see many posts about Su-Ya possibly having been involved with a lover and her husband possibly having her killed for the affair. What evidence is there to support she was cheating on her husband?

I see many posts about Su-Ya possibly having been involved with a lover and her husband possibly having her killed for the affair. What evidence is there to support she was cheating on her husband?

There isn't any evidence to support those claims, it's all speculation. I think people find it odd that Su Ya was supposed to go shopping, but dropped off her kids with relatives and never even got into her car to go anywhere.

I wonder if the suspect ever bought clothes in the Kim's store, perhaps followed her after work and found out where she lived. Then abducted her when she went shopping.

I wonder if the suspect ever bought clothes in the Kim's store, perhaps followed her after work and found out where she lived. Then abducted her when she went shopping.

IIRC, in the segment Su Ya's family thought it was out of character for her to show up at her relatives house unannounced to drop off the kids. And she didn't make any attempt to use her car, which seems odd if she were in fact supposed to go shopping. I think that's why there is speculation that she didn't go shopping at all.

How could the police be certain the car was not used? Yes, they mentioned that it had been "Several hours" since its last usage, but wasn't it in the early morning hours, so more than several hours from when the police spoke to the student?

I don't think Jones did it; I don't think he would have called a friend over to look in the dumpster, then pretend to be surprised and run to flag down the ambulance. I think if he'd done it, he wouldn't have said anything at all. He was very honest about the $20, too.

I still can't believe they haven't figured this out after all these years.

I don't think Jones did it; I don't think he would have called a friend over to look in the dumpster, then pretend to be surprised and run to flag down the ambulance. I think if he'd done it, he wouldn't have said anything at all. He was very honest about the $20, too.

There's just no way Jones would have been able to randomly pick a car, memorize the license plate/make/model/color, and then fabricate the story of the man dumping something. He's definitely being honest with what he's saying. And I still don't think he got the wrong car.

There's just no way Jones would have been able to randomly pick a car, memorize the license plate/make/model/color, and then fabricate the story of the man dumping something. He's definitely being honest with what he's saying. And I still don't think he got the wrong car.
I agree. I think someone mentioned that he could have picked out the right license plate, but wrong state, but I think he definitely would have noticed if it was out of state.

The police gave up looking at the exchange student's car way too quickly, in my opinion.

has anyone ever been able to find the original newspaper articles about this case? I have searched and never found anything. I would love to see if there were details that UM left out, im sure that there were.

I've always thought that the license plate was a case of stolen identity (on the car) and that the plate may have been a carefully orchestrated fake.

I've always thought that the license plate was a case of stolen identity (on the car) and that the plate may have been a carefully orchestrated fake.

I've also wondered if the killer stole the license plate and used it on his car. I do think it would have been relatively hard to pull this off, however. The killer would have had to have found a car that matched his make, model, and color (since Jones described the same exact car that the student had). He then would have had to have gambled on taking the license plate (or even switching them) without: anyone noticing this, and not knowing whether or not the student would have seen or noticed the different plate had she gone out to use her car. The killer also would have had this pretty well planned out, why else would he feel the need to switch out the plates if he wasn't planning on killing Su Ya? Was there anyone in her life that would have wanted her dead that bad? After dumping her body, the killer then would have had to go back to the college (actually locate the car), then hope no one would notice or discover him as he swapped the plates back again. That's an awful lot of planning, IMO.

I've also wondered if the killer stole the license plate and used it on his car. I do think it would have been relatively hard to pull this off, however. The killer would have had to have found a car that matched his make, model, and color (since Jones described the same exact car that the student had). He then would have had to have gambled on taking the license plate (or even switching them) without: anyone noticing this, and not knowing whether or not the student would have seen or noticed the different plate had she gone out to use her car. The killer also would have had this pretty well planned out, why else would he feel the need to switch out the plates if he wasn't planning on killing Su Ya? Was there anyone in her life that would have wanted her dead that bad? After dumping her body, the killer then would have had to go back to the college (actually locate the car), then hope no one would notice or discover him as he swapped the plates back again. That's an awful lot of planning, IMO.

I think there is too much disorganization with the crime and disposal itself for the above to be the case.

I think there is too much disorganization with the crime and disposal itself for the above to be the case.

Yes the killer was very disorganized. He actually let himself be seen dumping a body, and then offered Joe Jones $20 to look the other way. Quite brazen actually.

I wonder if the suspect ever bought clothes in the Kim's store, perhaps followed her after work and found out where she lived. Then abducted her when she went shopping.


This just came to mind.. if he was a delivery driver like they suspect he is, maybe thats how he knew who she was. He delivered to one of her stores...

There's just no way Jones would have been able to randomly pick a car, memorize the license plate/make/model/color, and then fabricate the story of the man dumping something. He's definitely being honest with what he's saying. And I still don't think he got the wrong car.


He was one of the few I liked on UM. IMO, you can tell he was innocent. Much like the husband from the Orange Socks murder..

I was reading in previous thread people were speculating that Jones was possibly involved. The main reason I don't think this is true is because had he done the crime, why would he throw her in a dumpster then alert people of the dead body? Considering this dumpster was in a difficult location, it's highly likely it would of ended up being picked up by a trash truck at some point and the body would never been recovered.

I think his story, especially a white guy at 3:00 AM in Bedford-Stuys in 1991 and the car model/license plate match in Long Island, is very odd, but I doubt his involvement more than he came upon something he wasn't suppose to see.

I was reading in previous thread people were speculating that Jones was possibly involved. The main reason I don't think this is true is because had he done the crime, why would he throw her in a dumpster then alert people of the dead body? Considering this dumpster was in a difficult location, it's highly likely it would of ended up being picked up by a trash truck at some point and the body would never been recovered.

I think his story, especially a white guy at 3:00 AM in Bedford-Stuys in 1991 and the car model/license plate match in Long Island, is very odd, but I doubt his involvement more than he came upon something he wasn't suppose to see.

I tend to believe Jones in part because of the description that he gave of the perp. Considering the location and the demographics at the time, it doesn't seem like something made up. If that makes any sense.

I think it is strange that they focused on the car, if they truly did not believe that it was the car used in the case. I just find it too coincidental that it met the description and the partial plate number. How did they determine that it wasn't the one used in the crime? Just because it showed no traces of blood? Couldn't it have been cleaned or something?

I feel as though they do know who the perp is, but can't prove it. I think it was a boyfriend or friend of the car owner, but the detectives don't have enough evidence to hold him, since they were unable to find any blood in the car, and perhaps he had an alibi for the time of the murder.

I think in this case there were definitely some more facts that weren't shared in the segment.

I've also wondered if the killer stole the license plate and used it on his car. I do think it would have been relatively hard to pull this off, however. The killer would have had to have found a car that matched his make, model, and color (since Jones described the same exact car that the student had). He then would have had to have gambled on taking the license plate (or even switching them) without: anyone noticing this, and not knowing whether or not the student would have seen or noticed the different plate had she gone out to use her car. The killer also would have had this pretty well planned out, why else would he feel the need to switch out the plates if he wasn't planning on killing Su Ya? Was there anyone in her life that would have wanted her dead that bad? After dumping her body, the killer then would have had to go back to the college (actually locate the car), then hope no one would notice or discover him as he swapped the plates back again. That's an awful lot of planning, IMO.

I don't think he necessarily stole and replaced the plates. I think he could have had fake ones made.

I always felt that nerdy looking jogger killed Su Ya because they knew each other and most likely have an affair and she broke it off. I mean why kill somebody random out of how many million people there would've been back in 1991 in NYC, also her own car being stone cold in the garage she must've not gone to the garage and walked out of the building and he picked her up from the outside. Su Ya and Su Young seemed happy together, but i guess he never thought at all about if there was an affair going on.

I mean there may have not been an affair after all but i most likely think there was.

I admit that the following is rank speculation (but that's never stopped me before on this site). I wonder if Su Ya Kim was an early victim of the Long Island Serial Killer? We will likely never know, however, there are some common threads. First, the murder took place at the early end of the time that the LISK's began killing. The guy was white and wearing attire that suggests he was near the ocean. I recall that at least 1 of the LISK's victims was asian. Assuming that the security guard identified the right Nissan, the college in question was almost due North of the Gilgo Beach area. Again, just speculation.

Correct me if I'm wrong didn't the L.I.S.K. mostly kill Prostitutes though? Just wondering how Su Ya Kim figures into his Victim pathology. I could be wrong... I watched a true Crime show episode late last year about a New York killer who targeted Prostitutes.

Correct me if I'm wrong didn't the L.I.S.K. mostly kill Prostitutes though? Just wondering how Su Ya Kim figures into his Victim pathology. I could be wrong... I watched a true Crime show episode late last year about a New York killer who targeted Prostitutes.

Yes he did and maybe even more. So many prostitute murder cases out there, in addition to the Ohio and New Orleans ones.

Yes he did and maybe even more. So many prostitute murder cases out there, in addition to the Ohio and New Orleans ones.


Ah kk thanks. Thought I was going nuts for a second. Couldn't remember if I had actually watched that true crime show or not.

plus, why did the husband and his sons move back? South korea has a lot of grimey parts to it and is not this totally 21st century tech driven nation it is made ought to be. Maybe he knew she was cheating cause the segment never touched on that. However, i doubt he would participate in the segment if they asked about that.

plus, why did the husband and his sons move back? South korea has a lot of grimey parts to it and is not this totally 21st century tech driven nation it is made ought to be. Maybe he knew she was cheating cause the segment never touched on that. However, i doubt he would participate in the segment if they asked about that.

Because it's their country. Why is it weird that he didn't stay in the US after his wife was murdered?

most people who immigrate often do not go back

most people who immigrate often do not go back

Based on what?

plus, why did the husband and his sons move back? South korea has a lot of grimey parts to it and is not this totally 21st century tech driven nation it is made ought to be. Maybe he knew she was cheating cause the segment never touched on that. However, i doubt he would participate in the segment if they asked about that.

I think it's perfectly reasonable that the husband moved back to his country. Maybe the memory of his wife's murder was too painful and he wanted to get away from it all?

I think it's perfectly reasonable that the husband moved back to his country. Maybe the memory of his wife's murder was too painful and he wanted to get away from it all?

Possibly he needed family support to raise his sons, now that his wife was gone. Although the Wiki says there was a grandmother here. Maybe left cause he's guilty.

Possibly he needed family support to raise his sons, now that his wife was gone. Although the Wiki says there was a grandmother here. Maybe left cause he's guilty.

I don't think he's guilty. He didn't look anything like the man described by Joe Jones who was dumping Su Ya's body. I just think he wanted to get away due to emotional stress.

I think he might have been a delivery man who would often deliver things to their store (s). And perhaps, that’s how the affair started. I’m leaning more towards a random act of violence though. And I think Joe Jones is the most believable innocent person in the history of U.M.

I don't think he's guilty. He didn't look anything like the man described by Joe Jones who was dumping Su Ya's body. I just think he wanted to get away due to emotional stress.

Exactly. There is absolutely no reason to suspect the husband, and leaving a place that was a daily reminder of your wife's murder for the security of home makes perfect sense.

I think it is strange that they focused on the car, if they truly did not believe that it was the car used in the case. I just find it too coincidental that it met the description and the partial plate number. How did they determine that it wasn't the one used in the crime? Just because it showed no traces of blood? Couldn't it have been cleaned or something?

I feel as though they do know who the perp is, but can't prove it. I think it was a boyfriend or friend of the car owner, but the detectives don't have enough evidence to hold him, since they were unable to find any blood in the car, and perhaps he had an alibi for the time of the murder.

I think in this case there were definitely some more facts that weren't shared in the segment.

I've posted on the case earlier in the thread and whilst I seem to be in the minority, the car is a red herring - the cops had a priori limitations on the make, model, etc. - so it's just a numbers game that they found a potential match. IMO, Jones just got the partial wrong.

The biggest non-share was Su Ya's whereabouts between 5pm and 3am. We are told absolutely nothing, and that seems critical given that during those hours she came into contact with her killer (who I believe was either not known to her) and was, in fact, killed.

There is no evidence presented that would suggest she was having an affair or anything other than a hard-working wife and mother.

Why didn't they take prints off of the 20 dollar bill?

It's difficult if not impossible to get usable prints from money

IIRC, in the segment Su Ya's family thought it was out of character for her to show up at her relatives house unannounced to drop off the kids. And she didn't make any attempt to use her car, which seems odd if she were in fact supposed to go shopping. I think that's why there is speculation that she didn't go shopping at all.

It's not, per say, odd in New York City to go shopping without a car. We don't know anything about Su Ya's driving or shopping habits to know whether or not it would have been odd for her, however. One could presume Su Young's worry on discovering her car might suggest she did not utilize public transportation regularly, however.

The lack of any information regarding her whereabouts from 5pm to 3am is the most frustrating part of the case.

And the fact know one has come forward to say thy saw her out shopping anywere sounds like she incounterted her killer before she could go shopping. unless she was never going shopping in the first place.

And the fact know one has come forward to say thy saw her out shopping anywere sounds like she incounterted her killer before she could go shopping. unless she was never going shopping in the first place.

Yes and no. Presuming NYPD knew where she was going, if the staff, etc. at said establishment had no recollection of her, it would certainly support that hypothesis.

But pre-CCTV and GPS tracking, it was difficult to be able to track movements in the same manner it is now.

I just figured if she went to some stores some would have scene her in a store , servalence cameras or something. but who knows onlythe police know what is in there file.

I just figured if she went to some stores some would have scene her in a store , servalence cameras or something. but who knows onlythe police know what is in there file.

Undoubtedly this would be true now. I think much less so in the early 1990s.

There is a lack of information left out in the UM segment, but from what we do know, I tend to think the only scenarios that make sense are:

-Su Ya had an admirerer whom she rebuffed and then he killed her.
-Su Ya was having an affair and she ended it that day and her lover then killed her.

The reason the affair seems more likely, IMO, is she showed up at a relative's house unannounced to drop her kids off. The segment mentioned how uncharacteristic this was of her.

There is a lack of information left out in the UM segment, but from what we do know, I tend to think the only scenarios that make sense are:

-Su Ya had an admirerer whom she rebuffed and then he killed her.
-Su Ya was having an affair and she ended it that day and her lover then killed her.

The reason the affair seems more likely, IMO, is she showed up at a relative's house unannounced to drop her kids off. The segment mentioned how uncharacteristic this was of her.

I'm not going to malign the woman's character based upon the fact that she wanted to take a shopping trip without her kids once.

Moreover, Su Ya worked all the time, with her family, and was almost never out past 8pm. Based on her husband's interview, she likely was not wholly fluent in the English language and she lived and worked in places that have primarily non-white populations.

Yet you really think she had time, opportunity and desire for a secret tryst with some random white guy?

I understand UM leaves many things out, but frankly, they'd have to have fundamentally mis-categorized the entire story and the victim for your hypothesis to be plausible.

I'm not going to malign the woman's character based upon the fact that she wanted to take a shopping trip without her kids once.

Moreover, Su Ya worked all the time, with her family, and was almost never out past 8pm. Based on her husband's interview, she likely was not wholly fluent in the English language and she lived and worked in places that have primarily non-white populations.

Yet you really think she had time, opportunity and desire for a secret tryst with some random white guy?

I understand UM leaves many things out, but frankly, they'd have to have fundamentally mis-categorized the entire story and the victim for your hypothesis to be plausible.

EXCELLENT post egswanso. I find it really tacky that Cars would leap to that conclusion based on no evidence and speak ill of the dead by stating she was cheating on her husband. Then again, that's the type of post I've come to expect from him. I'm sure it was one of about 800 posts he made yesterday.

I'm not going to malign the woman's character based upon the fact that she wanted to take a shopping trip without her kids once.

I'm not trying to tarnish her character, or speak ill of the dead. It's speculation from what was presented in the segment. The same thing goes on in several threads about other cases (Perman Gilbert, Cecelia Newball, etc.). I'm just positing a possibility based off of the fact that she was found nude, and stabbed nine times. That does not scream random crime, that seems more like a personal, crime of passion.

Moreover, Su Ya worked all the time, with her family, and was almost never out past 8pm. Based on her husband's interview, she likely was not wholly fluent in the English language and she lived and worked in places that have primarily non-white populations.

Yet you really think she had time, opportunity and desire for a secret tryst with some random white guy?

I haven't seen the segment in a while, but IIRC Jones was the one who said the guy looked white. The police sketch, IMO, looks more Asian than white.

I understand UM leaves many things out, but frankly, they'd have to have fundamentally mis-categorized the entire story and the victim for your hypothesis to be plausible.

Su Ya was not raped, was found nude, and was stabbed 9 times. That tends to support the theory that someone she knew murdered her. UM left out if any of the contents of her purse where found in the dumpster or anywhere else, so we don't know if robbery would be a motive. That's why I brought up the affair/admirerer theory. Because a random killing just makes no sense, why go through the trouble to strip her and dump her in a concealed alley?

And UM does have a tendency to miscategorize segments from time to time. Just about every "Final Appeal" segment does this, in an attempt to make the appellant look more favorable.

ETA: Ok, finally rewatched this one and had totally forgot about certain details. At the end of the segment, Stack says the suspect had blonde hair and blue eyes, and was wearing jogging shorts with a sailboat insignia on them. This most likely means that the killer was in fact white, possibly from a well-to-do background. This makes the affair theory less likely, since as egswano pointed out, Su Ya was a Korean immigrant who worked from sunup to sundown, and probably didn't have the time to carry out an affair. What's really frustrating about the case is we have no actual crime scene, only where Su Ya was dumped. If we knew where she was going shopping at 5, this could open up some possibilities about what happened to her. The UM segment says the police seems to think the killer could have been a cab driver or delivery man. Maybe on her shopping trip she was picked up by a sick cabbie who had a thing for Asian women? But that wouldn't explain the car he was driving, or the way he was dressed.

What I find frustrating about this case is the fact that we don't know if she had any of her things with her when she was found.
The segment said she went shopping. Back in that day, she probably had cash on her or, if she was already done, some purchases.

I personally don't feel like the husband had any involvement btw.

To me this feels like a robbery gone bad. The clothes the suspect was reported of wearing sound like running-clothes. He could have been jogging around the area, maybe training somewhere close?

What I find frustrating about this case is the fact that we don't know if she had any of her things with her when she was found.
The segment said she went shopping. Back in that day, she probably had cash on her or, if she was already done, some purchases.

I personally don't feel like the husband had any involvement btw.

To me this feels like a robbery gone bad. The clothes the suspect was reported of wearing sound like running-clothes. He could have been jogging around the area, maybe training somewhere close?

If it was robbery surely the sus[pect would have robbed her and left her were he attacked her if he was only after her money or valuables. The fact that the perp went to an effort to dump the body could indicate he attacked her somewere were it wasnt convenient to just leave her body after stabbing her hence he had to dispose of the body somewere were it wouldnt be located .......at least for a while .....

If it was robbery surely the sus[pect would have robbed her and left her were he attacked her if he was only after her money or valuables. The fact that the perp went to an effort to dump the body could indicate he attacked her somewere were it wasnt convenient to just leave her body after stabbing her hence he had to dispose of the body somewere were it wouldnt be located .......at least for a while .....


Well, not every robber is going to react the same way.
Maybe some ppl would just run and leave the body were it fell, but others wouldn't. Try to hide the body in a place where it can't be seen instead of an alleyway etc. does make a lot of sense.
Maybe this guy just ceased the opportunity, tried to rob her but she resisted and he stabbed her. Then, in panic (because really, if you are someone who has just stabbed somebody for the first time, you are not going to be cool about it) he tries to get rid of the evidence. He puts her in his car, removes the clothes because that could have evidence and then tries to dumb her somewhere as fast as possible. I think the fact that the clothes were removed but she wasn't sexually assaulted is a sign that they guy got rid of her clothing because of the possible evidence on there.

On one hand, it shows that they guy was intelligent or calm enough to think about hiding the body end getting rid of the evidence. On the other hand ... he could have been totally panicking while doing it.

I don't think it was a robbery, or that it was anyone Su Ya knew that murdered her. I think Su Ya's murderer might have been a so-called "thrill" killer, who'd killed before and may have continued to do so.

I also think there is a very slight possibility it could be a hate crime.

This case happened in the early 90s/late 80s, no? Everytime I think of Su Ya's case, I just can't help but wonder that if her murder happened say in this day and age if it would have been solved by now thanks to the advances in forensic science.

As for her killer, I thought about maybe a stalker, possibly someone who saw her in the store and developed a liking/obsession with her. Another possibility I thought of and someone mentioned this a few pages back about a serial killer. I would go with that one but then again, I don't think there was ever mention of any other women (Korean or not) who were murdered/assaulted in that area by a similar looking man from the sketch.

I'm not trying to tarnish her character, or speak ill of the dead. It's speculation from what was presented in the segment. The same thing goes on in several threads about other cases (Perman Gilbert, Cecelia Newball, etc.). I'm just positing a possibility based off of the fact that she was found nude, and stabbed nine times. That does not scream random crime, that seems more like a personal, crime of passion.

I haven't seen the segment in a while, but IIRC Jones was the one who said the guy looked white. The police sketch, IMO, looks more Asian than white.

Su Ya was not raped, was found nude, and was stabbed 9 times. That tends to support the theory that someone she knew murdered her. UM left out if any of the contents of her purse where found in the dumpster or anywhere else, so we don't know if robbery would be a motive. That's why I brought up the affair/admirerer theory. Because a random killing just makes no sense, why go through the trouble to strip her and dump her in a concealed alley?

And UM does have a tendency to miscategorize segments from time to time. Just about every "Final Appeal" segment does this, in an attempt to make the appellant look more favorable.

ETA: Ok, finally rewatched this one and had totally forgot about certain details. At the end of the segment, Stack says the suspect had blonde hair and blue eyes, and was wearing jogging shorts with a sailboat insignia on them. This most likely means that the killer was in fact white, possibly from a well-to-do background. This makes the affair theory less likely, since as egswano pointed out, Su Ya was a Korean immigrant who worked from sunup to sundown, and probably didn't have the time to carry out an affair. What's really frustrating about the case is we have no actual crime scene, only where Su Ya was dumped. If we knew where she was going shopping at 5, this could open up some possibilities about what happened to her. The UM segment says the police seems to think the killer could have been a cab driver or delivery man. Maybe on her shopping trip she was picked up by a sick cabbie who had a thing for Asian women? But that wouldn't explain the car he was driving, or the way he was dressed.

Glad you re-watched the segment and came around (BTW, I was attacking your previous hypothesis, not you personally - it wasn't impossible, of course, just not likely based on what we know - of course, different facts could change its likelihood significantly, which can be the annoying thing about certain UM cases) I agree that the lack of information concerning her whereabouts is the most frustrating thing.

One thing that seems odd to me, that hasn't really been addressed in this thread is that the suspect was just dressed oddly. It's hard to believe he would have been performing any delivery or taxi job in such a get-up.

What I find frustrating about this case is the fact that we don't know if she had any of her things with her when she was found.
The segment said she went shopping. Back in that day, she probably had cash on her or, if she was already done, some purchases.

I personally don't feel like the husband had any involvement btw.

To me this feels like a robbery gone bad. The clothes the suspect was reported of wearing sound like running-clothes. He could have been jogging around the area, maybe training somewhere close?

We don't know where she was planning to go, or whether she ever got there, so that's the more fundamental question.

No-one would have been jogging in 1990s Bed-Stuy, especially not a white man at 3am. She was clearly killed elsewhere and he was dumping there. But for the security guard, it was actually a great dump-site.

Glad you re-watched the segment and came around (BTW, I was attacking your previous hypothesis, not you personally - it wasn't impossible, of course, just not likely based on what we know - of course, different facts could change its likelihood significantly, which can be the annoying thing about certain UM cases) I agree that the lack of information concerning her whereabouts is the most frustrating thing.

One thing that seems odd to me, that hasn't really been addressed in this thread is that the suspect was just dressed oddly. It's hard to believe he would have been performing any delivery or taxi job in such a get-up.

I didn't take it as a personal attack, I just forgot certain details about the case because I hadn't seen it in so long. His attire was pretty odd, but I tend to think he was wearing jogging clothes just in case someone would question where he was at that late hour, (wherever he returned to) he could just use the excuse "oh I was out jogging". I also think it's weird that he told Jones he had been in a fight. I wonder if it's possible that the murderer targeted Su Ya specifically because she was Asian. It would be nice to know if there were similar MO's on murders/attacks being committed around the same time.

I don't think it was a robbery, or that it was anyone Su Ya knew that murdered her. I think Su Ya's murderer might have been a so-called "thrill" killer, who'd killed before and may have continued to do so.

I also think there is a very slight possibility it could be a hate crime.

Agree. I think the killer is a traditional sexual sadist. The only problem this brings about is that such individuals rarely just kill once, which begs the question as to the existence of an unknown serial killer (and what other victims might there be)

As to the hate crime, always a chance with a cross-racial crime, but no evidence to support it beyond the same; impossible to say if it's a factor one way or the other without more.

Agree. I think the killer is a traditional sexual sadist. The only problem this brings about is that such individuals rarely just kill once, which begs the question as to the existence of an unknown serial killer (and what other victims might there be)

As to the hate crime, always a chance with a cross-racial crime, but no evidence to support it beyond the same; impossible to say if it's a factor one way or the other without more.

This guy would have had to have seen her at some point while she was out shopping. I wonder if he was a cabbie who gave her a ride. This would explain two things: why she didn't take her car and how the guy knew about the dump site.

I didn't take it as a personal attack, I just forgot certain details about the case because I hadn't seen it in so long. His attire was pretty odd, but I tend to think he was wearing jogging clothes just in case someone would question where he was at that late hour, (wherever he returned to) he could just use the excuse "oh I was out jogging". I also think it's weird that he told Jones he had been in a fight. I wonder if it's possible that the murderer targeted Su Ya specifically because she was Asian. It would be nice to know if there were similar MO's on murders/attacks being committed around the same time.

Glad to hear. Agreed that it gives him an excuse, although late-night jogging in 1990s NYC, especially the outer boroughs, would have been odd, methinks, simply because the City was a much, much, much more dangerous place. The line about the fight could have some basis in reality, if we hypothesize that the suspect and Su Ya got into an argument (how or why would just be speculation, however) and he snapped and stabbed her to death - although this hypothesis doesn't do much to answer anything. Or it just could have been the first thing he thought of.

As I said before, I don't think we have enough to rule the hate crime aspect in or out. It's possible only because it's always possible in cross-racial crime. But you would think if Asian women were being targeted and there were multiple potential victims that would have come up in the segment or in the years since, if for no other reason then the sensationalist NYC press loves such stories.

This guy would have had to have seen her at some point while she was out shopping. I wonder if he was a cabbie who gave her a ride. This would explain two things: why she didn't take her car and how the guy knew about the dump site.

Possible, although I don't think a white cabbie would be that familiar with Bed-Stuy: it's barely a neighborhood you could get cabs in now, let alone back then.

Glad to hear. Agreed that it gives him an excuse, although late-night jogging in 1990s NYC, especially the outer boroughs, would have been odd, methinks, simply because the City was a much, much, much more dangerous place. The line about the fight could have some basis in reality, if we hypothesize that the suspect and Su Ya got into an argument (how or why would just be speculation, however) and he snapped and stabbed her to death - although this hypothesis doesn't do much to answer anything. Or it just could have been the first thing he thought of.

Well he could have returned somewhere outside of NYC to a roommate/relative/spouse etc., who would have questioned him about where he was at a late hour. The jogging excuse wouldn't be seen as weird if it was some place outside of the city and the boroughs that the killer returned to.

Well he could have returned somewhere outside of NYC to a roommate/relative/spouse etc., who would have questioned him about where he was at a late hour. The jogging excuse wouldn't be seen as weird if it was some place outside of the city and the boroughs that the killer returned to.

Agreed, although if he was going out of the City, there would have been ample opportunity to dump the body somewhere remote with less chance of being seen by anyone.

Agreed, although if he was going out of the City, there would have been ample opportunity to dump the body somewhere remote with less chance of being seen by anyone.

Unless he was a cabbie or deliveryman who knew about the remote dumpster and figured it would be the perfect place to dump the body so someone would think the killing happened in the city.

Unless he was a cabbie or deliveryman who knew about the remote dumpster and figured it would be the perfect place to dump the body so someone would think the killing happened in the city.

Yes. Like I've said before, but for the guard, the dumpster was a great dumping place.

Presumably, if he was familiar with the dumpster, he was someone who was in the neighborhood sometimes, at least. That itself would have been somewhat unusual for the time. He also wouldn't have been familiar enough to know the building was patrolled - which may or may not have been evident or signed during the day - if it was, it certainly does call into question how familiar he really was the dumpster or neighborhood as a whole.

We don't know exactly where the dumpster was, or where Su-Ya lived, which is a little frustrating to formulate a hypothesis; if, for instance, the dumpster was near western edge of Bed-Stuy, it could indicate someone who took the Robinson/GCP (which essentially ends there) to the neighborhood and wasn't even that familiar with it, just knew that the "ghetto" would be a good place to dump a body; alternatively, knowing whether it was in a residential or industrial area might be helpful to know if a deliveryman scenario is more plausible.

There is a lack of information left out in the UM segment, but from what we do know, I tend to think the only scenarios that make sense are:

-Su Ya had an admirerer whom she rebuffed and then he killed her.
-Su Ya was having an affair and she ended it that day and her lover then killed her.

The reason the affair seems more likely, IMO, is she showed up at a relative's house unannounced to drop her kids off. The segment mentioned how uncharacteristic this was of her.

This has to be a personal attack. Given the nature of the killing. BUt also, how could she have run into trouble just shopping?

I've written a lot in this thread a few years back. Nothing has changed.

Personal attack. Cops probably know who it was. I think the car is dirty still.

This has to be a personal attack. Given the nature of the killing. BUt also, how could she have run into trouble just shopping?

I've written a lot in this thread a few years back. Nothing has changed.

Personal attack. Cops probably know who it was. I think the car is dirty still.

Some creep could have seen her shopping who tried to hit on her and she rebuffed his advances which set him over the edge. I could think of a number of things that could have happened to her while she was shopping.

Some creep could have seen her shopping who tried to hit on her and she rebuffed his advances which set him over the edge. I could think of a number of things that could have happened to her while she was shopping.

This had to have happened in public. Lets say you are shopping in a mall. Its not like you can forcibly move someone to a place you can murder them without anyone seeing anything. She had to have agreed to go with him somewhere.

The only thing that could be feasible is if this guy is a taxi driver or something, but then why abduct someone and no rape?

This had to have happened in public. Lets say you are shopping in a mall. Its not like you can forcibly move someone to a place you can murder them without anyone seeing anything. She had to have agreed to go with him somewhere.

The only thing that could be feasible is if this guy is a taxi driver or something, but then why abduct someone and no rape?

Interesting question ! The lack of rape could indicate that maybe the killer got sexual pleasure from the stabbing instead of rape - thre are some killers who are said to fit this characteristic like the Sunday Morning slasher and the Connecticut river valley killer - for these guys the knife acted as an extension of their male organ and the act penetration was through the knife , if you can imagine that way ......

The fact that this killer went to lengths to dispose of the body suggests an organised experienced offender . The fact that the killer was not outwardly panicking after encountering the guard is also revealing - whoever the killer was maybe Su wasnt his first victim ........

IIRC, didn't Su Ya leave her car in a parking garage? I know those have a reputation as being unsafe, at least at times. A parking garage in New York City for a single female could be unsafe. I always got the impression she was attacked while going out to her vehicle and probably never made it to the shopping places.

IIRC, didn't Su Ya leave her car in a parking garage? I know those have a reputation as being unsafe, at least at times. A parking garage in New York City for a single female could be unsafe. I always got the impression she was attacked while going out to her vehicle and probably never made it to the shopping places.
I got that impression, too. Her husband seemed surprised when he found her car still in the apartment's parking garage, meaning she probably didn't express the intention to take a cab. Even if it was her apartment complex's garage, something still could have happened. There's always a chance that she changed her mind and decided to hail a cab, but I think she would have been spotted or at least one person may have remembered seeing her.

Glancing through this entire thread, it may as well be named "Let's piss on the Kims"

I'm surprised that so many people thought she was carrying on an affair. I didn't get that vibe at all. Not saying that it's impossible, but from what I know of Asian people, they are quiet, unassuming, hard-working people that go out of their way to avoid drama and are usually not the type of people that would have a lot of affairs. I shake my head at all the comments that she must have known her attacker. This is NYC. How many muggings go on? Do people know their muggers?

I also don't think Mr. Kim had anything to do with it at all. I also don't fault the man for moving back to his homeland. I mean, how many of us Americans would stay in Mexico if we moved there and a relative was killed there? I'm guessing that would be a low number.

That being sad, I really felt for Mr. Kim when he had to identify his wife. Watch that scene and you can just see the sorrow he must have felt. I can't imagine having to go through something like that.

Now here's the thing: There are language issues here. I used to work with someone who thought that Asians not understanding English, American customs etc. was all an act and that they faked stupidity/ignorance to get away with stuff. No kidding. I think something like that could have occured here. A mugger approached her and she didn't understand what was going on and because of this, she didn't give up her money, purchases whatever and he got enraged and killed her as a result. Btw, said coworker lasted all of about 2 weeks at the job.

Glancing through this entire thread, it may as well be named "Let's piss on the Kims"

I'm surprised that so many people thought she was carrying on an affair. I didn't get that vibe at all. Not saying that it's impossible, but from what I know of Asian people, they are quiet, unassuming, hard-working people that go out of their way to avoid drama and are usually not the type of people that would have a lot of affairs. I shake my head at all the comments that she must have known her attacker. This is NYC. How many muggings go on? Do people know their muggers?

I also don't think Mr. Kim had anything to do with it at all. I also don't fault the man for moving back to his homeland. I mean, how many of us Americans would stay in Mexico if we moved there and a relative was killed there? I'm guessing that would be a low number.

That being sad, I really felt for Mr. Kim when he had to identify his wife. Watch that scene and you can just see the sorrow he must have felt. I can't imagine having to go through something like that.

Now here's the thing: There are language issues here. I used to work with someone who thought that Asians not understanding English, American customs etc. was all an act and that they faked stupidity/ignorance to get away with stuff. No kidding. I think something like that could have occured here. A mugger approached her and she didn't understand what was going on and because of this, she didn't give up her money, purchases whatever and he got enraged and killed her as a result. Btw, said coworker lasted all of about 2 weeks at the job.

If it wasn't a crime of sexual nature, why was she found naked or was it half naked?

Someone elsewhere on the net says that famous actor Daniel Dae Kim played the brother-in-law in this segment. I'm not familiar with his other work, but I do see a strong resembalance.

Anyways, I have to wonder if the perp had an accomplice here. Granted that Su Ya Kim may have possibly been petite like many Asian women are, but I got the impression the man at the dumpster wasn't particularly strong/weighty/tall either. I'm not sure he would have had the physical strenghth to propel the dead Su Ya into the dumpster. I have to wonder if he had help in putting her in there, then dropped off his accomplice somewhere while at the same time, gathering more things to cover her body with. When Joe Jones stumbles onto the scene, it looks like the perp is arranging things in the dumpster to hide her body, so I think that's a possibility.

This had to have happened in public. Lets say you are shopping in a mall. Its not like you can forcibly move someone to a place you can murder them without anyone seeing anything. She had to have agreed to go with him somewhere.

The only thing that could be feasible is if this guy is a taxi driver or something, but then why abduct someone and no rape?

He could have spotted her in public and followed her somewhere to where he forced her into a vehicle, or like you said he could have been a taxi driver who picked her up.

I'm surprised that so many people thought she was carrying on an affair. I didn't get that vibe at all.

I also don't think Mr. Kim had anything to do with it at all. I also don't fault the man for moving back to his homeland. I mean, how many of us Americans would stay in Mexico if we moved there and a relative was killed there? I'm guessing that would be a low number.

That being sad, I really felt for Mr. Kim when he had to identify his wife. Watch that scene and you can just see the sorrow he must have felt. I can't imagine having to go through something like that.


I agree. I never got the vibe that there was an affair and I really don't think the segment provided enough information to lend credence to that theory anyway.

About Mr. Kim removing to South Korea, I, too, find absolutely no fault with this. Staying with the business in the city and country where he wife was killed must have been so painful. It must be remembered that this couple spent years saving up money to move to the US and no doubt must have talked about it repeatedly over the years; it was their dream. How could he be expected to stay in the place he and his wife had dreamt about moving to for years, experienced brief happiness, and then had it taken away so savagely? He gave it a try for two years I believe and didn't go back right away on impulse. It just became too hard. I don't think it makes him suspicious at all.

I know a lot of people believe this could have been an affair because the crime seems like one of ''passion'' but I think it was a killer that either got off on stabbing or became enraged when she resisted a sexual attack. It could have been an admirer who saw her working on numerous occasions, or it could have been a random creep. I haven't seen any indication that there was an affair and I'm sure the police would have checked to see if there was any indication of that as well.

About Mr. Kim removing to South Korea, I, too, find absolutely no fault with this. Staying with the business in the city and country where he wife was killed must have been so painful. It must be remembered that this couple spent years saving up money to move to the US and no doubt must have talked about it repeatedly over the years; it was their dream. How could he be expected to stay in the place he and his wife had dreamt about moving to for years, experienced brief happiness, and then had it taken away so savagely? He gave it a try for two years I believe and didn't go back right away on impulse. It just became too hard. I don't think it makes him suspicious at all.

I agree. Plus the segment also says that Mr. Kim stayed in America for two years after her murder. So it wasn't like he immediately left to return to South Korea. And Joe Jones explicitly said the man dumping Su Ya's body had blonde hair and blue eyes.

I would think the abduction would have had to have taken place in the parking garage, based on Su Ya not taking her car. You'd think she'd have taken her car out to go shopping. I don't think she made it out of the garage.

I would think the abduction would have had to have taken place in the parking garage, based on Su Ya not taking her car. You'd think she'd have taken her car out to go shopping. I don't think she made it out of the garage.

That's a pretty good possibility. Her husband seemed concerned that her car was still in the garage which is an indication that she rarely used public transportation. The weird thing is the clothing the killer was wearing. Was he wearing something different when he killed her and changed to dump the body? But when he dumped the body he got more blood on his jogging suit? I think that he probably cleaned up and changed after killing her but then got blood on his jogging shirt when dumping the body.

I would think the abduction would have had to have taken place in the parking garage, based on Su Ya not taking her car. You'd think she'd have taken her car out to go shopping. I don't think she made it out of the garage.
I lean toward this as well. I think that she would have mentioned if she was going to take a cab and her husband seemed genuinely surprised and worried when he found the car in the garage, perhaps an indicator that she was not prone to use taxis. Many women are abducted from parking lots and I feel that could very well have been the case here. Maybe her guard was down because it was an apartment complex parking lot, maybe the guy pretended to make small talk. I also think she would have been spotted shopping and taking cabs if she had ever made it out of the parking garage.

This had to have happened in public. Lets say you are shopping in a mall. Its not like you can forcibly move someone to a place you can murder them without anyone seeing anything. She had to have agreed to go with him somewhere.

The only thing that could be feasible is if this guy is a taxi driver or something, but then why abduct someone and no rape?

Because not everyone committing a crime is a rapist.

Relevant here is that a sexual sadist gets sexual satisfaction from the act of murder, that is the knife in the flesh is his substitution for penile insertion.

Glancing through this entire thread, it may as well be named "Let's piss on the Kims"

I'm surprised that so many people thought she was carrying on an affair. I didn't get that vibe at all. Not saying that it's impossible, but from what I know of Asian people, they are quiet, unassuming, hard-working people that go out of their way to avoid drama and are usually not the type of people that would have a lot of affairs. I shake my head at all the comments that she must have known her attacker. This is NYC. How many muggings go on? Do people know their muggers?

I also don't think Mr. Kim had anything to do with it at all. I also don't fault the man for moving back to his homeland. I mean, how many of us Americans would stay in Mexico if we moved there and a relative was killed there? I'm guessing that would be a low number.

That being sad, I really felt for Mr. Kim when he had to identify his wife. Watch that scene and you can just see the sorrow he must have felt. I can't imagine having to go through something like that.

Now here's the thing: There are language issues here. I used to work with someone who thought that Asians not understanding English, American customs etc. was all an act and that they faked stupidity/ignorance to get away with stuff. No kidding. I think something like that could have occured here. A mugger approached her and she didn't understand what was going on and because of this, she didn't give up her money, purchases whatever and he got enraged and killed her as a result. Btw, said coworker lasted all of about 2 weeks at the job.

+1

I lean toward this as well. I think that she would have mentioned if she was going to take a cab and her husband seemed genuinely surprised and worried when he found the car in the garage, perhaps an indicator that she was not prone to use taxis. Many women are abducted from parking lots and I feel that could very well have been the case here. Maybe her guard was down because it was an apartment complex parking lot, maybe the guy pretended to make small talk. I also think she would have been spotted shopping and taking cabs if she had ever made it out of the parking garage.

This is a logical scenario; the only problem is that we have nothing to suggest signs of a struggle which you'd expect to see. Also, if the parking garage is enclosed, as it appeared to be in the segment, the suspect would have had to gain entry somehow with a vehicle.

That makes the scenario less likely, in my opinion. However, additional facts might change my mind.

This is a logical scenario; the only problem is that we have nothing to suggest signs of a struggle which you'd expect to see. Also, if the parking garage is enclosed, as it appeared to be in the segment, the suspect would have had to gain entry somehow with a vehicle.

That makes the scenario less likely, in my opinion. However, additional facts might change my mind.

How about guy in parking garage threatening Su Ya with a knife, for instance? I would expect very little struggle if she knew her life was in danger and didn't want to die, even to the point of leaving in a vehicle with her abductor.

How about guy in parking garage threatening Su Ya with a knife, for instance? I would expect very little struggle if she knew her life was in danger and didn't want to die, even to the point of leaving in a vehicle with her abductor.

Certainly, that's a reasonable hypothesis that could explain the scene. We'd have to know more about the garage, entry controls, etc. to see if it stands up to additional evidence, but based on what we know, it could fit.

It does change the potential suspect to someone who's almost certainly targeting her directly, however.

Certainly, that's a reasonable hypothesis that could explain the scene. We'd have to know more about the garage, entry controls, etc. to see if it stands up to additional evidence, but based on what we know, it could fit.

It does change the potential suspect to someone who's almost certainly targeting her directly, however.

That is also true. Especially since this trip was not a routine one for Su Ya.

That is also true. Especially since this trip was not a routine one for Su Ya.

We don't know that for sure, esp. since we don't know where she was going.

We can say that it would have a deviation from her routine to not be home by 8pm; but that doesn't mean she hadn't originally planned to be home by then.

The theory does surmise the suspect was, essentially, stalking her (unless he had reason to know of her schedule), or alternatively, he was just loitering in a private parking garage waiting for a potential victim, which seems unusual, albeit not impossible, behavior.

It wouldn't have been a huge hurdle for the killer to gain entry to the parking garage, even if that entailed driving a vehicle. He could have been visiting someone in the complex, or even been a resident of the complex. And we do know that he had a vehicle, or at least, he had one within 24 hours of Su Ya's murder.

It wouldn't have been a huge hurdle for the killer to gain entry to the parking garage, even if that entailed driving a vehicle. He could have been visiting someone in the complex, or even been a resident of the complex. And we do know that he had a vehicle, or at least, he had one within 24 hours of Su Ya's murder.

Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't. We certainly have no evidence to prove or negate the hypothesis, considering we don't even know where it was, let alone the entry controls, security or lack thereof, etc., etc.

Remember this is New York, a lot of people don't use their cars it's not practical with the crowding and traffic most people take the subway or walk. Who's to say she didn't walk to do her shopping? And do we know that she didn't make it to the store? She could have very well have been abducted on her walk to the store or on her way home, maybe she was walking and someone stopped and offered to give her a ride home, she accepted and was taken elsewhere and killed, we just don't know the circumstances. Did LE verify that her vehicle worked? Maybe she was having a problem with it, it wouldn't start or something so she decided to walk. I doubt that an abductor could get into a secure parking garage without a remote or key, etc. and why would they be in a private garage if they didn't live in that building? It is possible she could have been killed by someone she knew,(a lot of murders happen this way) maybe by someone who lived close by in the area or possibly someone who was familiar with Su-Ya's store or have shopped in her store, you never know!

Remember this is New York, a lot of people don't use their cars it's not practical with the crowding and traffic most people take the subway or walk. Who's to say she didn't walk to do her shopping? And do we know that she didn't make it to the store? She could have very well have been abducted on her walk to the store or on her way home, maybe she was walking and someone stopped and offered to give her a ride home, she accepted and was taken elsewhere and killed, we just don't know the circumstances. Did LE verify that her vehicle worked? Maybe she was having a problem with it, it wouldn't start or something so she decided to walk. I doubt that an abductor could get into a secure parking garage without a remote or key, etc. and why would they be in a private garage if they didn't live in that building? It is possible she could have been killed by someone she knew,(a lot of murders happen this way) maybe by someone who lived close by in the area or possibly someone who was familiar with Su-Ya's store or have shopped in her store, you never know!

A couple of things I wanted to touch on:

-I agree that it could have been someone who frequented Su Ya's store and developed feelings for her who was her murderer. He could have stalked her and found out where she lived, too.
-We don't know if the garage was secure and even if it was, I don't think it would have been that difficult for someone to gain entry to it.
-The husband in the segment says he was worried when he saw Su Ya's car in the garage, which tells me she did not prefer to use public transportation.
-I doubt Su Ya would have accepted a ride from a stranger, unless it was a taxicab (assuming she did have some sort of car trouble).

I just re-watched this segment and I'd forgotten that not only did Joe Jones name the license plate, but that the car was a blue Nissan. The car that they found (belonging to the exchange student) WAS a blue Nissan. What are the odds that the guy would use fake plates and that it would correctly match the car type and color as well? That seems like a wild coincidence.

I just re-watched this segment and I'd forgotten that not only did Joe Jones name the license plate, but that the car was a blue Nissan. The car that they found (belonging to the exchange student) WAS a blue Nissan. What are the odds that the guy would use fake plates and that it would correctly match the car type and color as well? That seems like a wild coincidence.

I'm still not entirely convinced that it wasn't the car used to dump Su Ya's body. The student may have loaned it to the killer, or the killer could have had a key to it to use it to get rid of Su Ya's body.

I'm still not entirely convinced that it wasn't the car used to dump Su Ya's body. The student may have loaned it to the killer, or the killer could have had a key to it to use it to get rid of Su Ya's body.This is what I thought when I watched the segment, but it didn't look like they pursued this lead very far. I would bet there's more there that the cops just plain didn't look into.

I'm still not entirely convinced that it wasn't the car used to dump Su Ya's body. The student may have loaned it to the killer, or the killer could have had a key to it to use it to get rid of Su Ya's body.
This was part of the reason I was shocked they gave up on the car so quickly. The student says she last drove it around 10 p.m. and Joe Jones witnessed the suspect driving the car at 3 a.m. The police discounted it because the car hadn't been "run for hours." Well, yeah, it was hours before the police were able to trace the license plate to the exchange student, so what? Maybe they meant more hours, but it still seemed like too good a lead to pass up. And they also discounted the car because no blood was in the car. What if the killer had wrapped the body up to ensure there was no blood? I just can't believe the police wouldn't look into the exchange student's acquaintances more. Perhaps she had a boyfriend who looked just like the suspect! Just because she said no one borrowed the car, doesn't mean no one borrowed it. A boyfriend/friend could have taken it without her knowledge or she could be covering.

This was part of the reason I was shocked they gave up on the car so quickly. The student says she last drove it around 10 p.m. and Joe Jones witnessed the suspect driving the car at 3 a.m. The police discounted it because the car hadn't been "run for hours." Well, yeah, it was hours before the police were able to trace the license plate to the exchange student, so what? Maybe they meant more hours, but it still seemed like too good a lead to pass up. And they also discounted the car because no blood was in the car. What if the killer had wrapped the body up to ensure there was no blood? I just can't believe the police wouldn't look into the exchange student's acquaintances more. Perhaps she had a boyfriend who looked just like the suspect! Just because she said no one borrowed the car, doesn't mean no one borrowed it. A boyfriend/friend could have taken it without her knowledge or she could be covering.

While I do definitely agree that it seems highly coincidental that the plate and the car apparently weren't "the ones" according to the police, I don't know if an exchange student from Taiwan would risk lying to the police--I guess it seems reasonable she would fear losing her visa or otherwise risking deportation.

I suppose what I'd like to know most is how extensively the vehicle was searched. Was the interior analyzed? Was evidence of tampering investigated? I know that these segments often gloss over certain details, but it sounds as though as soon as this young woman told police no one else used her vehicle, they dropped everything concerning the car.

Remember this is New York, a lot of people don't use their cars it's not practical with the crowding and traffic most people take the subway or walk. Who's to say she didn't walk to do her shopping? And do we know that she didn't make it to the store? She could have very well have been abducted on her walk to the store or on her way home, maybe she was walking and someone stopped and offered to give her a ride home, she accepted and was taken elsewhere and killed, we just don't know the circumstances. Did LE verify that her vehicle worked? Maybe she was having a problem with it, it wouldn't start or something so she decided to walk. I doubt that an abductor could get into a secure parking garage without a remote or key, etc. and why would they be in a private garage if they didn't live in that building? It is possible she could have been killed by someone she knew,(a lot of murders happen this way) maybe by someone who lived close by in the area or possibly someone who was familiar with Su-Ya's store or have shopped in her store, you never know!

These points have been all touched on before. We just don't know enough to say one way or the other how the mechanics of the murder happened. All we know is that she left around 5pm; we don't know where she was going, how she was going there, who she might have been going with, etc., etc., etc.

When it comes to the car, either I'm missing something, or ya'll are, in that the search, as I understand it, the search was self-limiting; that is it would only find blue nissans because they only looked for blue nissans. This being the case, I don't find this element unusual.

When it comes to the car, either I'm missing something, or ya'll are, in that the search, as I understand it, the search was self-limiting; that is it would only find blue nissans because they only looked for blue nissans. This being the case, I don't find this element unusual.

I thought the segment said Jones gave LE a plate number and they ran it and it matched a blue Nissan. That would indicate that it was the car used that night, or the killer stole the plates.

I thought the segment said Jones gave LE a plate number and they ran it and it matched a blue Nissan. That would indicate that it was the car used that night, or the killer stole the plates.

Yes. Joe Jones gave the plate number and a description of the vehicle (how extensive it was isn't clear in the segment), and after running the plate number, one match turned up--on a NY plate. I guess there could exist a slight possibility that Joe Jones mistook an out-of-state plate for an in-state one, but I'm not so sure. I think it was the correct plate and vehicle.

Yes. Joe Jones gave the plate number and a description of the vehicle (how extensive it was isn't clear in the segment), and after running the plate number, one match turned up--on a NY plate. I guess there could exist a slight possibility that Joe Jones mistook an out-of-state plate for an in-state one, but I'm not so sure. I think it was the correct plate and vehicle.

No - or at least that's not what the detective said - The Detective on the case says that "We ran all the Nissons that fit that description with that partial plate" - so the police are already starting out with the exact make and model.

No - or at least that's not what the detective said - The Detective on the case says that "We ran all the Nissons that fit that description with that partial plate" - so the police are already starting out with the exact make and model.

We ran all the Nissans that fit that description with that plate number in New York City and we tried to match registered owners by using a partial plate. And we were able to come up with one match.

That's verbatim from the segment, so it's a little ambiguous, but I always under the impression Jones gave the full plate number. I thought it was a case of anchoring and adjustment--if the plate didn't in fact exist, the police then ran partial searches using a similar character in place of one given to them by Jones.

We ran all the Nissans that fit that description with that plate number in New York City and we tried to match registered owners by using a partial plate. And we were able to come up with one match.

That's verbatim from the segment, so it's a little ambiguous, but I always under the impression Jones gave the full plate number. I thought it was a case of anchoring and adjustment--if the plate didn't in fact exist, the police then ran partial searches using a similar character in place of one given to them by Jones.

I'm pretty sure it was a partial, but they are saying they limited the vehicle selection to Nissans in New York City. I hope they did more then that.

I'm pretty sure it was a partial, but they are saying they limited the vehicle selection to Nissans in New York City. I hope they did more then that.

I'm not sure how a search could even be limited to NYC, so I always thought that was a little strange. State tag numbers aren't duplicated (on regular issue tags). There would be only a single regular series tag reading 123 ABC in the entire state of NY--right?

While I do definitely agree that it seems highly coincidental that the plate and the car apparently weren't "the ones" according to the police, I don't know if an exchange student from Taiwan would risk lying to the police--I guess it seems reasonable she would fear losing her visa or otherwise risking deportation.


This is true, it would be a great risk. I'm wondering if she had a boyfriend/roommate/friend who could have borrowed the car in the middle of the night without her knowledge while she slept. My roommate would leave her keys right out in the living room overnight, for example. I could have taken a joyride if I had been tempted! :happyface

This is true, it would be a great risk. I'm wondering if she had a boyfriend/roommate/friend who could have borrowed the car in the middle of the night without her knowledge while she slept. My roommate would leave her keys right out in the living room overnight, for example. I could have taken a joyride if I had been tempted! :happyface

That's a good possibility too, I think. I could see that.

I just feel like we're missing something huge here regarding the police investigation.

Jones obviously knew what NY tags looked like, so he probably gave police the number and told them it was a NY tag.

Definitely agree with her being abducted in the parking lot.

I'm not sure how a search could even be limited to NYC, so I always thought that was a little strange. State tag numbers aren't duplicated (on regular issue tags). There would be only a single regular series tag reading 123 ABC in the entire state of NY--right?

Right.

The only way it could be limited to NYC would be if the search was limited only to the five boroughs, but that would be stupid and seems not to be the case considering the car they found was on LI.

I think police should look more into the car that matched the description of the car security guard said he saw.

Look into this guy he fits the sketch of the man seen in the ally http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Rifkin

We ran all the Nissans that fit that description with that plate number in New York City and we tried to match registered owners by using a partial plate. And we were able to come up with one match.

That's verbatim from the segment, so it's a little ambiguous, but I always under the impression Jones gave the full plate number. I thought it was a case of anchoring and adjustment--if the plate didn't in fact exist, the police then ran partial searches using a similar character in place of one given to them by Jones.
The way I am reading that is the searched one whole complete license plate and it was attached to the vehicle that was described on detail AND they used partial digits from the plate number as recalled in any varying combinations/permutations that were linkef to any vehicle matching the description.
Also, this was late 80s, right? I find it hard to believe they were able to track down the vehicle so fast and given this was a person of color, an immigrant living/working in an urban/socio-economically disenfranchised area, I am inclined to believe that all investigations/inquests into this matter were not as thorough as they could have been

It wouldn't have been a huge hurdle for the killer to gain entry to the parking garage, even if that entailed driving a vehicle. He could have been visiting someone in the complex, or even been a resident of the complex. And we do know that he had a vehicle, or at least, he had one within 24 hours of Su Ya's murder.

BINGO! @wiseguy182 - this is exactly what I think happened.

No one saw her out shopping that day, how do we even know she left the building? I think that the killer may have either: lived in her building or was visiting someone in the apartment complex; or was a private contractor with the building, thus gaining access via the secure lot.

If I were LE I would have focused a lot of attention on residents of the apartment complex who fit the description of the killer, the car, and also people who had visitors on that day. Most apartment complexes with underground parking lots have video cameras. If The Kim's complex had cameras, were the videos checked?

BTW, sorry for all of the edits. :)

you get the feeling if su ya was blonde white and of wealth this story would be real big. asians rarely make mainstream headlines in america.

i wonder how the dad and sons are doing now? the kids must be thirty now. do they still have a drive to have this case solved?

Do we know how far the shopping mall was from where Su lived?

I think the abduction from her parking garage makes the most sense.

you get the feeling if su ya was blonde white and of wealth this story would be real big. asians rarely make mainstream headlines in america.

i wonder how the dad and sons are doing now? the kids must be thirty now. do they still have a drive to have this case solved?
Possibly as always the media picks and chooses especially today who they want to cover and it is always based on ratings to push ad sales. For this reason I'm glad that UM took on so many diverse cases in all locations of the country. They did a phenomenal job appealing to all citizens. I think the family went to South Korea. I wonder if there is a way to find them but I'd Imagine that they wanted privacy and a feeling of peace and security that was lost with the abduction and murder.

This Su-ya Kim segment was especially creepy. The security guard patrolling the area late at night obviously saw the murderer & even talked to him, before he realized what had happened. And by the time he did, the killer had left.

Not surprised that this case has never been solved. It took place in NYC in the early '90's, and the killer probably either just disappeared into the huge population of the city - or left the area.

It's notable that this UM segment is one of the handful of times I've seen an actor/actress that later became more well-known. In this case, Daniel Dae Kim portrayed the brother of Su-ya's husband (though he had no speaking parts). Later, Kim was in 200X's TV shows like Lost & 24 (two of my favorite series).

I was randomly thinking about this case today and cannot shake the feeling that this could have been a hate crime. You do not stab someone 9 times if you intend to rob them. Nor would you go through the trouble to dump them in a dimly lit alley. If this was a jilted admirer, you wouldn't think this person would have dumped her body as if she were literal garbage. The fact that she was stabbed 9 times, undressed, and dumped in a dumpster makes me lean more towards a hate crime.

I was randomly thinking about this case today and cannot shake the feeling that this could have been a hate crime. You do not stab someone 9 times if you intend to rob them. Nor would you go through the trouble to dump them in a dimly lit alley. If this was a jilted admirer, you wouldn't think this person would have dumped her body as if she were literal garbage. The fact that she was stabbed 9 times, undressed, and dumped in a dumpster makes me lean more towards a hate crime.
Most hate crimes are spur of the moment crimes of opportunity where the victim(s) are typically located where they were attacked / killed.

I've speculated previously that the white male in "boating" attire witnessed by the security guard may have been LISK. The license plate taken down by the security guard was from a Taiwanese exchange student who attended CW Post College on Long Island, a 40 minute drive due North from Gilgo Beach.

Most hate crimes are spur of the moment crimes of opportunity where the victim(s) are typically located where they were attacked / killed.

James Byrd and Matthew Shepard are two that come to mind immediately about being taken away from where they were initially abducted and murdered.

The problem with Su Ya's case is that we have no idea if she planned on driving her car or using public transportation for her shopping trip. Because the car being found untouched in the parking garage could be a red herring.

I believe there’s a connection between Jones and the killer. What kind of officer takes a bribe like that? It’s not normal. I believe Jones possibly knew who was responsible but kept quiet about it, or perhaps was even involved himself in the crime. Took a bribe from his buddy to stay quiet. And I believe it was more money then Jones claimed.

I was randomly thinking about this case today and cannot shake the feeling that this could have been a hate crime. You do not stab someone 9 times if you intend to rob them. Nor would you go through the trouble to dump them in a dimly lit alley. If this was a jilted admirer, you wouldn't think this person would have dumped her body as if she were literal garbage. The fact that she was stabbed 9 times, undressed, and dumped in a dumpster makes me lean more towards a hate crime.

absolutely, whoever did this, has a hatred and disregard for women..which is such a problem in this world.

So sometimes I try to find the locations from Unsolved Mysteries. From what I've seen nobody has posted this location anywhere.

If Unsolved Mysteries filmed at the actual location.. here it is...

https://i.imgur.com/ovUL5KS.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/xwq9Z29.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/FaNUhhi.jpg



40.690892000258955, -73.93944021814055

That's awesome, welcome! There's a thread for location pictures (https://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=279342) if that's your thing.

So sometimes I try to find the locations from Unsolved Mysteries. From what I've seen nobody has posted this location anywhere.

If Unsolved Mysteries filmed at the actual location.. here it is...

https://i.imgur.com/ovUL5KS.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/xwq9Z29.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/FaNUhhi.jpg



40.690892000258955, -73.93944021814055

This was one of the first cases I watched of U.M and has always stuck with me. I'd like to visit those sites, maybe if i'm in New York someday.

Just watched this segment so felt compelled to write something.

Starting with the motivation for the crime. I think it is significant that she did not live in the same borough as the store was located. Unless they were both on the border that implies a significant distance between them, at least enough to rule out any store association unless she was being stalked.

The crime may or may not have had a sexual motivation. As to it being staged to look that way...odd choice to say the least. Staging a home homicide to look like robbery gone wrong is a well known tactic, but staging a homicide to look sexually motivated seems more questionable. I lean towards her clothing being a removed either for getting rid of some evidence or for a purpose. Its possible that violence resulting in her death or some type of interruption forced the perpetrator to change plans, which would explain the lack of clothing but no evidence of rape.

Conversely, I don't see there being any significance in the number of stab wounds. 9 is well within what might be expected from a struggle that has no "personal" or "vengeance" overtones.

She almost certainly did not go anywhere with the car, but since this is NY that does not mean she had to have been in the garage when she was abducted/killed. Hard to say if the garage being relatively desolate made it a better location for the abduction than the crowded streets or if the fact that nothing was found there points to elsewhere.

Regarding the license plate and car. There is plenty of room for something to go wrong here. Guard gets a partial or incorrect plate, mistakes the model of vehicle, etc. So the car found on long island may not even be relevant. That said, the possibility that the exchange student lied seems plausible.

I don't see that the police failed here in any respect, they investigated the leads that were available, but most random crimes like this are exceedingly difficult to solve. As has been pointed out, crime in the 1980's was so rampant that even making it this far in following leads was an accomplishment.

One final thought. The perpetrator was wearing jogging shorts and a tank top, have to wonder if he was a runner. If so, that would fit with the police theory that he "knew the area well" like a cab driver would. Anyone who has been into running knows how well you can learn a city or area by running different routes thorough it. You get a slower, more intimate view of the streets than you get in a car, and pick up on things that you would otherwise miss. Just a thought.

I noticed someone on the UM website left a comment about the LISK on the Su-Ya Kim page. The eye witness description does not match up. The LISK is quite larger. others will point to the profile angle. I don't think the LISK was SU-YA's murderer. I would think NYC detectives are making sure they investigate other cold case crimes in the area?

^ to me that LISK idea just sounds like fan fiction.

Everyone else was a prostitute solicited from the internet and a random housewife store owner out shopping?

^ to me that LISK idea just sounds like fan fiction.

Everyone else was a prostitute solicited from the internet and a random housewife store owner out shopping?

I think there is a definite tendency of armchair detectives and even investigators to assign blame to known offenders when it comes to cold cases. For the armchair detectives it seems to be a "closing the loop" psychological factor where they want to solve every case and find well known killers that are vaguely in the same region and assign it to them even if it is highly unlikely they were involved.

For investigators, writing a case off to be a known perpetrator, especially one that is dead, allows them to close the books on cases that may otherwise be unsolvable and improve their public optics.

NYC is big and a lot of people get murdered every day there. You really have to have an unusual situation for a murder to really get traction in a place like that (just see two serial killers names being dropped in this thread). That doesn't make Kim's death any less tragic or anything, but the police and media resources are just stretched more thin.

I think the circumstances caused some extra issues here. The husband of Kim wasn't interviewed in English, which makes me think his English is not that great. That definitely would limit some of the research on this one. The husband and the family went back to Korea, so there weren't people around to follow up on the situation and keep it in the news. We've seen in some cases where anonymous people would leave phone calls with tips but if the family is gone, they can't really do that. Had the husband not left, the chances of this being solved are much higher. Su-Ya's name was spelled wrong in at least one newspaper which further hurts the search for info.

As anyone who watches a lot of UM here knows, UM doesn't show every detail to a case. This was not one of the cases UM covered in great detail and it makes it so hard to come up with guesses on what happened.

What more could he have done? he could have investigated the incident further! granted he couldn't arrest the guy just for being suspicious but he could have if he had looked in the dumpster before the guy booked it. I mean c'mon... the Blood on his shirt should have been a Red flag.

"hey sir! you can't dump here!"
*w/ blood on his shirt. & wearing running shorts and a tank top all at an ungoldy hour* "I can't?"
"No sir. you can't."
"Alright than." *leaves*
*Guard discovers body*

Really? :mad: so the guard gets off the hook because he contacted the Cops after the fact?*sighs* i'm getting all worked up over it. Hindsight is a bitch. he didn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed. and I guess it just really bugs the hell out of me.

Honestly, he did the right thing. How do we know that the killer wouldn't have went after Jones if he refused to let him dump? Yeah, he's stronger than Su Ya, but Jones didn't know a dead woman was in there at the time.

^ to me that LISK idea just sounds like fan fiction.

Everyone else was a prostitute solicited from the internet and a random housewife store owner out shopping?

yeah in no way does it the bill, not even the location. as others mentioned, NYC area is a massive area by population and commerce. There is a lot of crime there.

NYC is big and a lot of people get murdered every day there. You really have to have an unusual situation for a murder to really get traction in a place like that (just see two serial killers names being dropped in this thread). That doesn't make Kim's death any less tragic or anything, but the police and media resources are just stretched more thin.

I think the circumstances caused some extra issues here. The husband of Kim wasn't interviewed in English, which makes me think his English is not that great. That definitely would limit some of the research on this one. The husband and the family went back to Korea, so there weren't people around to follow up on the situation and keep it in the news. We've seen in some cases where anonymous people would leave phone calls with tips but if the family is gone, they can't really do that. Had the husband not left, the chances of this being solved are much higher. Su-Ya's name was spelled wrong in at least one newspaper which further hurts the search for info.

As anyone who watches a lot of UM here knows, UM doesn't show every detail to a case. This was not one of the cases UM covered in great detail and it makes it so hard to come up with guesses on what happened.
those are some good points, one thing that Su-Ya's case had going for it was UM. It is difficult for most victims to get media attention. I think UM and the NYC investigators had empathy for the situation and it was good of them to show it given the circumstances. You are right though about NYC resources most likely being thin. I think any L.E.A. can play that card when it is convenient for them and its not necessarily wrong of them because its true. The fact is that one has to care enough to go the extra mile to invest their time for someone in unusual circumstances such as language/culture barriers/etc. and that can be a slippery slope to climb for law enforcement because their jobs by nature already ask a lot of them.

She was found naked and stabbed repeatedly. The motive was almost certainly sexual, IMO.

She was found naked and stabbed repeatedly. The motive was almost certainly sexual, IMO.
You would think that at first glance, but there was no evidence of sexual assault.

I think this was either a thrill killing or a robbery gone wrong.

You would think that at first glance, but there was no evidence of sexual assault.

I think this was either a thrill killing or a robbery gone wrong.

not saying you are wrong. but there also doesn't have to be evidence of a sexual assault for it to have been the reason she was attacked. some men get violent when women don't comply with their advances and it goes that way. we've seen it many times over.

The killer's blood could have ended up on Su-Ya's clothes as he was stabbing her, so he discarded her bloody clothing.

Makes me think Su-Ya's murder wasn't his first, or at least not his first violent offense. He was likely in the system prior and didn't want his blood traced back to him. I would think that some would have ended up on the dumpster as he was dumping her body.

The killer's blood could have ended up on Su-Ya's clothes as he was stabbing her, so he discarded her bloody clothing.

Makes me think Su-Ya's murder wasn't his first, or at least not his first violent offense. He was likely in the system prior and didn't want his blood traced back to him. I would think that some would have ended up on the dumpster as he was dumping her body.

The composite of the suspect was so scary because it was fairly ordinary. This is a guy who is used to flying under the radar.

If the security guard was telling the truth, it was late June, so it could have been a humid day in New York.

When I hear people with some of their theories here, I wonder about their sanity, but yours in this case could be a possibility. They were married for 10 years. It's possible she could have been involved with someone else. Maybe the 10-year anniversary made her feel a little guilty and she decided to break up with him and he killed her like the Hungarian woman in Forest Hills a couple of years ago. When the witness is a different race from the suspect, I often wonder if they have a "They all look alike." thinking and give general descriptions. The sketch looks like Joel Rifkin, but he is 6'2" and the guard said he was 5' 6". 8 inches in height is too large to mistake.

Her car may have been in the garage because she was going near by shopping and maybe it was random. Then again, he could have picked her up if your theory is true. The girl who owned the car was likely lying. How does the security guard tell you a blue Nissan with partial plates and then you find a bule Nissan with the plate information you have? The car owner's race makes me think that this guy liked women from that part of the world. It is odd though that no blood was found in the car and apparently she was not wrapped in plastic in the dumpster, but the security guard saw blood on the ground. That's a very lucky coincidence there for the killer. Maybe he was able to keep her body in the car without dripping or he had plastic protecting it all. I'm surprised they never caught the killer.

You could see the pain int he husband's eyes. His world was destroyed.

Okay can we talk about this case for one moment. I was watching it on one of CrystalDawns set this weekend and I am absolutely perplexed by it all.

Just to recap, this was the woman who came from Korea and lived in NYC. Her husband and her had run two stores...one in Manhattan and one Brooklyn. She left her apartment one Saturday afternoon to go shopping and is not seen again. That night a security guard doing his rounds in Brooklyn, comes across a white male hanging around a dumpster. He is dressed in a running outfit with blood in it. After giving the security guard $20 to dump in the dumpster, he leaves. The security guard gets his partial license plate and make/model of car. Then he finds Su Ya Kim's naked body in the dumpster stabbed to death.

I was confused as to why Ms. Kim's car was located in her home garage not used that day. You have to assume she was probably abducted from her apartment condo.

I do believe the security guard and his story....don't know why, really I didn't get the vibe he was very smart and was being truthful He admitted that he took $20 from the guy.

Why did the partial license plate and car/model match up with a LI College woman's car who claimed she never used her car that night?

And finally why would this man be wearing a running outfit.

My gut feeling on this from the facts presented on UM (which are usually not a complete set of them) is that Mrs. Kim was having an affair with this man who was seen at the dumpster. Makes sense that he would be in everyday clothes, when something happens and he kills her. Mrs. Kim was also stabbed 9 times....that seems like overkill to me. Plus UM kept harping on the fact of how happy she was in her marriage and they had just celebrated 10 years together...I was wondering if that was the husband take on it.

Anyone else feel like this might be the case??

IMO

Finally, the husband leaving America and returning to Korea, while understandable given the circumstances, also bothered me. He had established a successful business and had 2 sons. It's possible that he might have wanted to avoid further police scrutiny.

That makes no sense. You could see he was hurting. Why bother going on the show if he was leaving the country if he did it? Many people after someone close dies cannot handle the loss and the void they feel with that daily person no longer there and they need to get away before the surroundings kill them from the depression. Being there is a constant reminder that this individual is gone and becomes an environment of pain instead of what it once was, an environment of happiness.

Back then in New York if I encountered a cab driver who was white, he was a European immigrant and older, not in his 20s and American.



i also do not buy into the UM theory that it was a cab driver. how many white light haired taxi cab drivers do you see? the type that would be attracted to this woman would be probably white professional.

just my two cents.

As do law enforcement officers.



I don't know. It's not like he came from Japan and went back to Japan. How many people would go back to south Korea? There was a very good reason they left south korea. Sadness aside, I can't imagine it's the wisest thing financially to do? he still has a business that I assume was still profiable. It would be way cheaper to bring the family here than for him to go there. Not to mention the kids would have to be taken out of American culture to a whole new culture and school systems.

South Korea is a very hard country for law enforcement to find someone. i don't even know if they have an FBI office.(i would assume so due to the DMZ and CIAs prescence.)

Please stop. First you think it's a hate crime, now this. Really? You sound like a woke member making everything political or racist. Your thinking is extremely racist with your assumptions.

(I hope you don't take offense, just saying).



Let him/her take offense. Most of what was said by that individual was racist and clueless.

Please stop. First you think it's a hate crime, now this. Really? You sound like a woke member making everything political or racist. Your thinking is extremely racist with your assumptions.

I'm not excusing or agreeing with the perspective of the poster that you replied to, but that was from 2009. this coming from someone who spent 2 years in South Korea. They are one of America's best allies and the poster either appeared to be ignorant of South Korea or misinformed IMO.

Say that to say this. Not sure that we need to make this about politics either and I don't think you are, just want to make sure someone doesn't reply and take it off the rails.

I do agree that some of those early posts in this thread of mistaken identity or questioning why the husband left America are off the mark and are opinions that don't seem to be shared by many others.

If the security guard was telling the truth, it was late June, so it could have been a humid day in New York.

When I hear people with some of their theories here, I wonder about their sanity, but yours in this case could be a possibility. They were married for 10 years. It's possible she could have been involved with someone else. Maybe the 10-year anniversary made her feel a little guilty and she decided to break up with him and he killed her like the Hungarian woman in Forest Hills a couple of years ago. When the witness is a different race from the suspect, I often wonder if they have a "They all look alike." thinking and give general descriptions. The sketch looks like Joel Rifkin, but he is 6'2" and the guard said he was 5' 6". 8 inches in height is too large to mistake.

Her car may have been in the garage because she was going near by shopping and maybe it was random. Then again, he could have picked her up if your theory is true. The girl who owned the car was likely lying. How does the security guard tell you a blue Nissan with partial plates and then you find a bule Nissan with the plate information you have? The car owner's race makes me think that this guy liked women from that part of the world. It is odd though that no blood was found in the car and apparently she was not wrapped in plastic in the dumpster, but the security guard saw blood on the ground. That's a very lucky coincidence there for the killer. Maybe he was able to keep her body in the car without dripping or he had plastic protecting it all. I'm surprised they never caught the killer.

You could see the pain int he husband's eyes. His world was destroyed.
I agree about the husband. He seemed shattered. I don't think it involved an affair and I believe the security guard's testimony. It's not able to be proven, but it appears that the guard did indeed face the killer. as to why it happened IDK. it's all subjective. but we know that in general, male predators go after women and if women fight back it can escalate to murder. that might be why there was no evidence of sexual assault because she denied his advances and fought him.

Have you never registered a car? They are STATE issued, not city issued.

Right.

The only way it could be limited to NYC would be if the search was limited only to the five boroughs, but that would be stupid and seems not to be the case considering the car they found was on LI.

Look into this guy he fits the sketch of the man seen in the ally http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Rifkin

The description claimed 5' 6" Rifken is 6' 2". 8 inches is too large of a difference in height.

The way I am reading that is the searched one whole complete license plate and it was attached to the vehicle that was described on detail AND they used partial digits from the plate number as recalled in any varying combinations/permutations that were linkef to any vehicle matching the description.
Also, this was late 80s, right? I find it hard to believe they were able to track down the vehicle so fast and given this was a person of color, an immigrant living/working in an urban/socio-economically disenfranchised area, I am inclined to believe that all investigations/inquests into this matter were not as thorough as they could have been

They had computers in 1991. You sound like the liberal racists who say everything is racist. SAD!

BINGO! @wiseguy182 - this is exactly what I think happened.

No one saw her out shopping that day, how do we even know she left the building? I think that the killer may have either: lived in her building or was visiting someone in the apartment complex; or was a private contractor with the building, thus gaining access via the secure lot.

If I were LE I would have focused a lot of attention on residents of the apartment complex who fit the description of the killer, the car, and also people who had visitors on that day. Most apartment complexes with underground parking lots have video cameras. If The Kim's complex had cameras, were the videos checked?

BTW, sorry for all of the edits. :)

It was 1991. How many cameras do you think were there and any cameras usually only had a few frames recording per camera mixing them up or they had 6 to 12 hour tapes and then recorded over them.

you get the feeling if su ya was blonde white and of wealth this story would be real big. asians rarely make mainstream headlines in america.

i wonder how the dad and sons are doing now? the kids must be thirty now. do they still have a drive to have this case solved?

Take your sickening and vile racism somewhere else.

I was randomly thinking about this case today and cannot shake the feeling that this could have been a hate crime. You do not stab someone 9 times if you intend to rob them. Nor would you go through the trouble to dump them in a dimly lit alley. If this was a jilted admirer, you wouldn't think this person would have dumped her body as if she were literal garbage. The fact that she was stabbed 9 times, undressed, and dumped in a dumpster makes me lean more towards a hate crime.

Enough with all your racism on this board. It's sickening. Some people get murdered not because of their race. If the suspect in the video were black, you would probably stay quiet, but it's ok to be racist towards someone who is white. A murderer is scum whatever race he or she is whether the victim is of a different race or opposite sex.

James Byrd and Matthew Shepard are two that come to mind immediately about being taken away from where they were initially abducted and murdered.

The problem with Su Ya's case is that we have no idea if she planned on driving her car or using public transportation for her shopping trip. Because the car being found untouched in the parking garage could be a red herring.

Matthew Sheppard was not a hate crime. It was over drugs.

I believe there’s a connection between Jones and the killer. What kind of officer takes a bribe like that? It’s not normal. I believe Jones possibly knew who was responsible but kept quiet about it, or perhaps was even involved himself in the crime. Took a bribe from his buddy to stay quiet. And I believe it was more money then Jones claimed.

Considering he's not an officer and merely a guy who was hired to keep squatters, thieves, or vandals from going into an abandoned building, your statement is ridiculous.

Rayroy you are coming in way too hot on this thread. first off most of these posts are years old now. what are you going to achieve from this. it seems like you are calling out others but doing the exact same thing in return. this is not a political board. you can disagree with people without attacking them for their opinions.

Thanks. I was in the process looking for the location based on the officers working at the 81st Precinct. I actually went right through the location on Marcus Garvey Boulevard. I completely missed it.

So sometimes I try to find the locations from Unsolved Mysteries. From what I've seen nobody has posted this location anywhere.

If Unsolved Mysteries filmed at the actual location.. here it is...

https://i.imgur.com/ovUL5KS.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/xwq9Z29.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/FaNUhhi.jpg



40.690892000258955, -73.93944021814055

This was one of the first cases I watched of U.M and has always stuck with me. I'd like to visit those sites, maybe if i'm in New York someday.

Go during the day. Bed-Stuy is not a good neighborhood. Bed-Stuy. Do or die.

I'm not excusing or agreeing with the perspective of the poster that you replied to, but that was from 2009. this coming from someone who spent 2 years in South Korea. They are one of America's best allies and the poster either appeared to be ignorant of South Korea or misinformed IMO.

Say that to say this. Not sure that we need to make this about politics either and I don't think you are, just want to make sure someone doesn't reply and take it off the rails.

I do agree that some of those early posts in this thread of mistaken identity or questioning why the husband left America are off the mark and are opinions that don't seem to be shared by many others.

I wasn't trying to make it political. I was trying to make it not political by calling it out. A scum bag is a scum bag regardless of their race color creed religion, nationality, or political affiliation. I just hate when people jump to the conclusions of it's this so it's that. Anyone is capable of anything if you give them the right circumstances.

As for the husband, he did not kill his wife or had her killed. I have felt that pain I saw in his eyes. I took care of my mother until she died in 2014. We had a big garden in front of the house and until about 2021, I barely went down there because when she was alive my mother was down there and I would spend a lot of time with her there. It had then become a reminder she was gone and I avoided it because it made me feel like crap. It got to the point it looked like a jungle with the overgrown weeds. By 2021 I started realizing it's an insult to her to let it fall apart, so I cleaned it up. It's still an empty feeling being down there, but I try to appreciate it because I have it loads better than most of the planet.

The husband was hurting pretty badly. His world was destroyed. He needed some familiarity to try to heal, so he went somewhere familiar. Home.

Rayroy you are coming in way too hot on this thread. first off most of these posts are years old now. what are you going to achieve from this. it seems like you are calling out others but doing the exact same thing in return. this is not a political board. you can disagree with people without attacking them for their opinions.

I just watched the segment and came on here, so I read 20 years of posts in an hour, so it's going to be hot. I've cooled down now because I finished them all. Some of the theories are ridiculous.

Remember 1991 was the Dinkins era of a lot of crime and too few cops. Dinkins started the Safe Streets Safe Cities program of hiring more police a couple of years or so AFTER this murder and Guiliani continued it and brought in more police. The police were understaffed and underfunded then, so investigations likely went nowhere most of the time when the city was dealing with over 2000 murders a year while people dying in accidents, etc, they likely had to drop investigations if they weren't going to be solved easily, quickly, or cheaply.

Here's some things no one has considered. The security guard could have made up that whole story. In 1991, white guys would not have been in Bed Stuy at 3 AM. I had a friend who lives in California and he said he fell asleep in his car late one night around that time in Bed-Stuy and the cops woke him up and got him out of the area telling him how bad the area was. As for the security guard, a lie detector test is easy to pass if you believe your lying. If he is a narcissist, he would believe his lie. When he mentioned the 20 dollars, he started scratching his eye. That tells me he's either lying or withholding something. He could have actually been the murderer, put her in the dumpster, then came to work and "found" her for who knows what reason, then brought the friend over and looked like a semi-hero like a firefighter who starts fires. Maybe he had an affair with her. Maybe he was robbing her and it resulted in this. Maybe he is 100% innocent. Only he and the victim know if he did it.

Another thing could be if the story is true with the guy wearing the tank top. The wife left at 5 PM she was found at 3 AM. He possibly murdered her by 9 PM and brought her to an area likely being nowhere near where he lived. I think he drove around and found the spot, again if the security guard told the truth. The reason the car was clean is that he could have come by at 9 PM with a different car. He may have come back with the exchange student's car (who could have been his girlfriend lying for him) because he felt he should cover the body in the dumpster and that's when the security guard caught him poking around. He came back in a panic to cover the body and it not being the car he brought her in, it was clean. Maybe he also came back to look at what he had done or to see if the dumpster had been emptied.

It's possible tank top saw her at her business and became obsessed with her. It could have been random that he saw her that day and was crazy. He could have been angry about something else and let it out on her. He could have been having an affair with her. In reality, the only 2 people that know the truth are the wife and the killer and it being 35 years, he could also be dead.

The segment is based on what the security guard said and remember, Diogenes never found an honest man, so never assume someone is lying or telling the truth. Believe the evidence. When I see two unrelated witnesses seeing the same thing, I am more inclined to believe it as fact than 1 person saying it.

Another thing, they said they lived at an apartment in Queens. If they moved to a Korean neighborhood, then they either moved to Flushing or Forest Hills, with Flushing having many Koreans back then as I remember and it still does. If the children were left in an apartment in Forest Hills, there are plenty of stores in the area. She would not need to drive. We don't know where the apartment was where she dropped off the children, but they said she was found about 7 miles from where she lived. Flushing would be somewhere in that distance.

Now I'm finished.

I wasn't trying to make it political. I was trying to make it not political by calling it out. A scum bag is a scum bag regardless of their race color creed religion, nationality, or political affiliation. I just hate when people jump to the conclusions of it's this so it's that. Anyone is capable of anything if you give them the right circumstances.

As for the husband, he did not kill his wife or had her killed. I have felt that pain I saw in his eyes. I took care of my mother until she died in 2014. We had a big garden in front of the house and until about 2021, I barely went down there because when she was alive my mother was down there and I would spend a lot of time with her there. It had then become a reminder she was gone and I avoided it because it made me feel like crap. It got to the point it looked like a jungle with the overgrown weeds. By 2021 I started realizing it's an insult to her to let it fall apart, so I cleaned it up. It's still an empty feeling being down there, but I try to appreciate it because I have it loads better than most of the planet.

The husband was hurting pretty badly. His world was destroyed. He needed some familiarity to try to heal, so he went somewhere familiar. Home.

I respect your opinion and that is a fair post. you have a lot of good theories and know the area.

that said as someone who has been on the forum here for a very long time I know what raises the temperature in here and personal attacks are not appreciated and I imagine when some of the posters that you replied to see that, it could escalate. but some of those posters may not be active on here anymore either because those posts were a very long time ago. I'm not a moderator, I just want our threads to have good discussion and I feel like you can bring that to the table based on your posts. but it can go sideways. I personally didn't see anything overly political in the posts that you replied to. some stereotypes and unfamiliarity of the geography and day to day customs of NYC and S. Korea, perhaps yes. but there are a lot of threads in here where people speculate and come up with some theories that are out there and thinking out of the box. for some of these cases that's all we have. I will always think that Su-Ya was approached by an adult male, whether it be a serial rapist, or just some predator that tried to proposition her and it escalated when she denied him. I too was crushed for the husband and her family. I cannot imagine the pain that her family experienced. Big time respect for him by showing strength and going on the show to try to help find Su-Ya's murderer.

I just watched the segment and came on here, so I read 20 years of posts in an hour, so it's going to be hot. I've cooled down now because I finished them all. Some of the theories are ridiculous.

Remember 1991 was the Dinkins era of a lot of crime and too few cops. Dinkins started the Safe Streets Safe Cities program of hiring more police a couple of years or so AFTER this murder and Guiliani continued it and brought in more police. The police were understaffed and underfunded then, so investigations likely went nowhere most of the time when the city was dealing with over 2000 murders a year while people dying in accidents, etc, they likely had to drop investigations if they weren't going to be solved easily, quickly, or cheaply.

Here's some things no one has considered. The security guard could have made up that whole story. In 1991, white guys would not have been in Bed Stuy at 3 AM. I had a friend who lives in California and he said he fell asleep in his car late one night around that time in Bed-Stuy and the cops woke him up and got him out of the area telling him how bad the area was. As for the security guard, a lie detector test is easy to pass if you believe your lying. If he is a narcissist, he would believe his lie. When he mentioned the 20 dollars, he started scratching his eye. That tells me he's either lying or withholding something. He could have actually been the murderer, put her in the dumpster, then came to work and "found" her for who knows what reason, then brought the friend over and looked like a semi-hero like a firefighter who starts fires. Maybe he had an affair with her. Maybe he was robbing her and it resulted in this. Maybe he is 100% innocent. Only he and the victim know if he did it.

Another thing could be if the story is true with the guy wearing the tank top. The wife left at 5 PM she was found at 3 AM. He possibly murdered her by 9 PM and brought her to an area likely being nowhere near where he lived. I think he drove around and found the spot, again if the security guard told the truth. The reason the car was clean is that he could have come by at 9 PM with a different car. He may have come back with the exchange student's car (who could have been his girlfriend lying for him) because he felt he should cover the body in the dumpster and that's when the security guard caught him poking around. He came back in a panic to cover the body and it not being the car he brought her in, it was clean. Maybe he also came back to look at what he had done or to see if the dumpster had been emptied.

It's possible tank top saw her at her business and became obsessed with her. It could have been random that he saw her that day and was crazy. He could have been angry about something else and let it out on her. He could have been having an affair with her. In reality, the only 2 people that know the truth are the wife and the killer and it being 35 years, he could also be dead.

The segment is based on what the security guard said and remember, Diogenes never found an honest man, so never assume someone is lying or telling the truth. Believe the evidence. When I see two unrelated witnesses seeing the same thing, I am more inclined to believe it as fact than 1 person saying it.

Another thing, they said they lived at an apartment in Queens. If they moved to a Korean neighborhood, then they either moved to Flushing or Forest Hills, with Flushing having many Koreans back then as I remember and it still does. If the children were left in an apartment in Forest Hills, there are plenty of stores in the area. She would not need to drive. We don't know where the apartment was where she dropped off the children, but they said she was found about 7 miles from where she lived. Flushing would be somewhere in that distance.

Now I'm finished.

all good points. I always thought the security guard seemed embarrassed about the $20. but you are right, he could have been lying. as seen in many other segments from this show, people have a tendency to want to be involved with this show and get their couple mins of fame on tv.

I was just in the city last week. I stayed in Queens along the East River by the power plant (I think it was a power plant at least). I rode the subway to midtown multiple days and saw a show on Broadway. it was a great time. I will look more into the neighborhoods featured in this segment. I still haven't ever thought about venturing up farther than midtown. But I've been to citi field, all around queens and Manhattan. My wife's family is from Brooklyn and lived in Long Island for many years as well. Her Grandfather used to work for American for many years at JFK and retired with the company in Dallas. I thought about trying to get a job in NYC after I retired from the Air Force. My wife and kids want to move there. But I just figured it wouldn't be the best financial commitment at least for now.

all good points. I always thought the security guard seemed embarrassed about the $20. but you are right, he could have been lying. as seen in many other segments from this show, people have a tendency to want to be involved with this show and get their couple mins of fame on tv.

I was just in the city last week. I stayed in Queens along the East River by the power plant (I think it was a power plant at least). I rode the subway to midtown multiple days and saw a show on Broadway. it was a great time. I will look more into the neighborhoods featured in this segment. I still haven't ever thought about venturing up farther than midtown. But I've been to citi field, all around queens and Manhattan. My wife's family is from Brooklyn and lived in Long Island for many years as well. Her Grandfather used to work for American for many years at JFK and retired with the company in Dallas. I thought about trying to get a job in NYC after I retired from the Air Force. My wife and kids want to move there. But I just figured it wouldn't be the best financial commitment at least for now.

I will likely not be here if they do come back here to yell at me. I've been catching up on Unsolved Mysteries and always wondered if many of the cases had conclusions. I think I started watching it around Robert Stack's second episode or so. I remember a commercial with Karl Malden hosting so I was aware of it from the beginning. I remember being pretty sad when Robert Stack died in 2003 and figured the show was going to die with him. The man had me believing in ghosts. He WAS the show, even though the enactments, interviews, and stories were good. He made the ridiculous stuff believable.

I wouldn't recommend moving here to NYC. The place is going commie and my expenses have gotten ridiculous. I own two houses in Astoria Queens. If I hadn't promised my mother before she died that I would never sell the houses, I would be gone. It seems like everyone wants a handout and no one respects the environment around them and other people's spaces. I was born at the Bronx Fordham University Campus where Joey Bishop was also born, grew up in the Upper East Side in Manhattan and I've been in Astoria, a couple of blocks from the Tri-Boro Bridge for the past 30 years now. If you were by the power plant, then you must have been near the Queens Bridge where the Pepsi sign was. I'm not sure it's still there. I haven't been there in a while.

Most neighborhoods are fine in New York during the day. Avoid Upper Manhattan at night, along with South Bronx and the rest of it unless you go to a Yankee game. Bronx has a lot of beautiful spots, but you can get into trouble out there late at night. Riverdale, Pelham Parkway and Pelham Bay Park are nice places during the day along with The Bronx Zoo and The New York Botanical Garden not too far from the zoo. Forest Hills in Queens is a nice spot. Ironically, it's also where Kitty Genovese was murdered in the 1960s. Main Street in Flushing is the last stop on the 7 Train. It's insane there when everyone returns home from school and work with people everywhere as crowded as Grand Central Station. If you venture into the neighborhood, it has a city and suburban feeling to it at the same time. Corona is not too far from Flushing. Avoid Corona. Jackson Heights can be good or bad depending on the block. All are near Citi Field. Astoria has become fairly well known for the restaurants since it's been predominantly Greek since the late 1960s. A lot of the neighborhoods in Queens are getting over developed and it's becoming too crowded and really dirty. Manhattan below 86 Street is pretty much good everywhere. The Upper West Side continues to be ok past 86 Street, but I would be wary. Stay out of Central Park late at night. One place I will not go for any reason is East New York in Brooklyn. Avoid it no matter what. I have not been to Staten Island in years, but it does have its crappy spots too.

***I just realized something. They said a security guard was patrolling an abandoned building. Who was paying him if the building was abandoned? The owner was gone. That sounds like a red flag there unless there was some community thing going paying for it to have someone there to call the police if they saw something illegal. Knowing New York though, I can't see too many people chipping in for that. You get the not wanting to get involved until it happens to them thinking going.

Oh and it was the Safe Streets Safe City not Cities program that Dinkins started. Guiliani did give him credit for it though many people claim he didn't. I remember him giving Dinkins credit for it during his first state of the city address or whatever it's called when crime started to decline after his first year.

I will likely not be here if they do come back here to yell at me. I've been catching up on Unsolved Mysteries and always wondered if many of the cases had conclusions. I think I started watching it around Robert Stack's second episode or so. I remember a commercial with Karl Malden hosting so I was aware of it from the beginning. I remember being pretty sad when Robert Stack died in 2003 and figured the show was going to die with him. The man had me believing in ghosts. He WAS the show, even though the enactments, interviews, and stories were good. He made the ridiculous stuff believable.

I wouldn't recommend moving here to NYC. The place is going commie and my expenses have gotten ridiculous. I own two houses in Astoria Queens. If I hadn't promised my mother before she died that I would never sell the houses, I would be gone. It seems like everyone wants a handout and no one respects the environment around them and other people's spaces. I was born at the Bronx Fordham University Campus where Joey Bishop was also born, grew up in the Upper East Side in Manhattan and I've been in Astoria, a couple of blocks from the Tri-Boro Bridge for the past 30 years now. If you were by the power plant, then you must have been near the Queens Bridge where the Pepsi sign was. I'm not sure it's still there. I haven't been there in a while.

Most neighborhoods are fine in New York during the day. Avoid Upper Manhattan at night, along with South Bronx and the rest of it unless you go to a Yankee game. Bronx has a lot of beautiful spots, but you can get into trouble out there late at night. Riverdale, Pelham Parkway and Pelham Bay Park are nice places during the day along with The Bronx Zoo and The New York Botanical Garden not too far from the zoo. Forest Hills in Queens is a nice spot. Ironically, it's also where Kitty Genovese was murdered in the 1960s. Main Street in Flushing is the last stop on the 7 Train. It's insane there when everyone returns home from school and work with people everywhere as crowded as Grand Central Station. If you venture into the neighborhood, it has a city and suburban feeling to it at the same time. Corona is not too far from Flushing. Avoid Corona. Jackson Heights can be good or bad depending on the block. All are near Citi Field. Astoria has become fairly well known for the restaurants since it's been predominantly Greek since the late 1960s. A lot of the neighborhoods in Queens are getting over developed and it's becoming too crowded and really dirty. Manhattan below 86 Street is pretty much good everywhere. The Upper West Side continues to be ok past 86 Street, but I would be wary. Stay out of Central Park late at night. One place I will not go for any reason is East New York in Brooklyn. Avoid it no matter what. I have not been to Staten Island in years, but it does have its crappy spots too.

***I just realized something. They said a security guard was patrolling an abandoned building. Who was paying him if the building was abandoned? The owner was gone. That sounds like a red flag there unless there was some community thing going paying for it to have someone there to call the police if they saw something illegal. Knowing New York though, I can't see too many people chipping in for that. You get the not wanting to get involved until it happens to them thinking going.

Oh and it was the Safe Streets Safe City not Cities program that Dinkins started. Guiliani did give him credit for it though many people claim he didn't. I remember him giving Dinkins credit for it during his first state of the city address or whatever it's called when crime started to decline after his first year.
same feeling about stack. most of us on this forum feel that exact way. I remember right before he passed away was when I rediscovered UM on Lifetime. I didn't even know that he passed until a while after. Ironically the day that he passed was also a significant day for me and that always makes me remember the day RS passed away. At the time I was hoping that new UM episodes would be released.

My only guess was yeah maybe a private firm helping keep squatters out or something, but who knows. I would not. If I owned a vacant building that I cared about, I could see paying someone to watch it. but there's a difference between vacant and abandoned. Also UM wasn't always completely accurate with the fine details in their segments.

Yes I was by the Queensbridge, overlooked it and midtown from my hotel room. and I do think I saw the pepsi sign when I crossed the bridge at night. I think my family wants to move there because of our fondness of London. We lived in the UK for several years and spent a lot of our off days in the west end seeing shows and hopping the underground to see different parts of the town. New York and London are similar, but also very different lol. I think New York is probably a fair amount more dangerous in particular areas.

same feeling about stack. most of us on this forum feel that exact way. I remember right before he passed away was when I rediscovered UM on Lifetime. I didn't even know that he passed until a while after. Ironically the day that he passed was also a significant day for me and that always makes me remember the day RS passed away. At the time I was hoping that new UM episodes would be released.

My only guess was yeah maybe a private firm helping keep squatters out or something, but who knows. I would not. If I owned a vacant building that I cared about, I could see paying someone to watch it. but there's a difference between vacant and abandoned. Also UM wasn't always completely accurate with the fine details in their segments.

Yes I was by the Queensbridge, overlooked it and midtown from my hotel room. and I do think I saw the pepsi sign when I crossed the bridge at night. I think my family wants to move there because of our fondness of London. We lived in the UK for several years and spent a lot of our off days in the west end seeing shows and hopping the underground to see different parts of the town. New York and London are similar, but also very different lol. I think New York is probably a fair amount more dangerous in particular areas.

I would say if you can, take an extended vacation in New York, maybe 1 to 2 months to really see the area before you move if you decide to move here. They are pricing people out. My property taxes for both houses total about $26,000 a year and going up. The water and the other utilities had double digit increases this year. Whatever you're paying in electric now would likely be triple in New York. There's a reason so many people have moved out and the state lost a congressional seat. There is no longer a free option to drive to Manhattan. If you want to live comfortably in New York, I would say you have to make at least $200,000 or more as a household income. If you want to live in Manhattan, you might have to add at least $100,000 to that. The car and home insurance has also gone up a lot. If I did not have the two houses bringing in rent, I would not be able to live here.

You are right that Unsolved Mysteries many times omitted information, had wrong information, or slanted their stories a certain way. I do find it funny now that some of the stories I saw in the 1990s that had me all interested or scared, I look at now and laugh at how absurd they are. I guess I'm also more experienced now and I can spot the liars pretty easily where back then I would feel sorry for them.

I don't think Unsolved Mysteries can really exist today as a new show because there won't be too many lost loves, like adoptions that separated families or people who lost touch. The internet and social media have made it a lot easier to find people. With security cameras everywhere, it's also easier to identify who commits crimes, at least knowing what the criminal looks like than just wondering. DNA advances have also made it a lot easier. Since I put up cameras around my house last year, I no longer have any wondering what happened when I see the results the next day. Likely most of the cities have the same thing. Also, there aren't too many people out there who would make a good host like Robert Stack. I always thought Anthony Hopkins would have been a good replacement for him, but he's 88 now himself.

I would say if you can, take an extended vacation in New York, maybe 1 to 2 months to really see the area before you move if you decide to move here. They are pricing people out. My property taxes for both houses total about $26,000 a year and going up. The water and the other utilities had double digit increases this year. Whatever you're paying in electric now would likely be triple in New York. There's a reason so many people have moved out and the state lost a congressional seat. There is no longer a free option to drive to Manhattan. If you want to live comfortably in New York, I would say you have to make at least $200,000 or more as a household income. If you want to live in Manhattan, you might have to add at least $100,000 to that. The car and home insurance has also gone up a lot. If I did not have the two houses bringing in rent, I would not be able to live here.

You are right that Unsolved Mysteries many times omitted information, had wrong information, or slanted their stories a certain way. I do find it funny now that some of the stories I saw in the 1990s that had me all interested or scared, I look at now and laugh at how absurd they are. I guess I'm also more experienced now and I can spot the liars pretty easily where back then I would feel sorry for them.

I don't think Unsolved Mysteries can really exist today as a new show because there won't be too many lost loves, like adoptions that separated families or people who lost touch. The internet and social media have made it a lot easier to find people. With security cameras everywhere, it's also easier to identify who commits crimes, at least knowing what the criminal looks like than just wondering. DNA advances have also made it a lot easier. Since I put up cameras around my house last year, I no longer have any wondering what happened when I see the results the next day. Likely most of the cities have the same thing. Also, there aren't too many people out there who would make a good host like Robert Stack. I always thought Anthony Hopkins would have been a good replacement for him, but he's 88 now himself.
RS was a Cinderella story for UM. one in a million. he was a legendary actor, yet he had a great sense of humor and one of a kind stoic personality. His Elliott Ness affiliation also was part of it. In a weird way, I only know of Ness, because of Stack which perhaps would be the opposite from the generation ahead of me. The show lives on, only because of his legacy in my opinion. that's why in the latest UM he is literally casting a shadow over the opening theme. I think C&M realized that there is no way for them to go on without including him.

I understand about being priced out. I think I'm better off visiting. I would like to catch a game at MSG next time I go. I'm a big hockey fan. not really interested in yankee stadium anymore, but wouldn't rule that out either.