What happened here? The obvious answer in the departure of Don Knotts. Some will say it was the Knott's departure and going to color, but a closer look tells a more complicated story.

First and foremost, Griffith's performance level dropped through the floor. In some episodes his character seemed to sleepwalk through the show. Others he ranged from annoyed to verging on anger management issues. One episode, Opie is taking music lessons from Clara, there is a scene where Andy orders Aunt Bee in the car in a manner that shows almost contempt for her.
Question one, what happened to Griffith that he allowed his character to be presented in this light?

Second, Sheriff Andy, when the character of Warren failed to catch hold all the activity around the jail that use to be such a large part of the show had to come to an end. Andy had no one to interact with around the jail so there were fewer and fewer jail based episodes. Why? I know people didn't like the Warren character but shouldn't the writers and again Andy take the bulk of the blame. Andy was the gatekeeper to characters as they entered the Mayberry universe, if Andy liked the person the audience liked them. Look at the scenes between Warren and Andy, with Barney there was tolerance and understanding as his unique view of the world was unfolded, with Warren contempt and rage. How was the audience suppose to feel with that as an introduction. That's Andy and the writers fault. Question two, wasn't the failure of Warren more a reflection on the Griffith production company (and particularly Andy) than on Jack Burns?

Third, the scripts were weak. Look at the Aunt Bee episodes, Aunt Bee owns a restaurant , Aunt Bee learns to drive, Aunt Bee learns to fly (this seemed completely ridiculous), it was almost like the writers were going through the motions. Third question, Andy understood the characters why didn't he demand better writers and better scripts (he was a major star and had the power) ?

Consider the fact that other shows lost main characters over the years and replaced them without the show falling into utter disarray, (MASH, Mary Tyler Moore for example), Fourth, with all due respect to Paul Hartman (Emmet),
Jack Dodson (Howard), and Aneta Corsaut (Helen), couldn't the supporting cast have been upgraded a tad over this line up?

Something happened here which made no sense. The show that was on the first five seasons could be argued to be the best sitcom up to that point in time in TV history, the show the last three seasons wasn't even run of mill sitcom. If the show had started out with this cast I doubt it would have lasted more than one season. If the show had started out with scripts like this I doubt it would have lasted more than one season. If the show had started out with it's lead character presented in the manner Andy Taylor was in the final three seasons I doubt it would have lasted more than one season.

I believe you made some very valid points. I have always noticed Andy's anger in the show once Barney left. Seldom did he smile and "sitcom" just didn't fit the show anymore. They stopped having The Darlings and Ernest T. Bass in the show and to me, this was a huge mistake. They were always funny and a joy to watch. Howard, Emmet, and the occasional guest star just didn't cut it.

Even though my opinion of seasons 6-8 is not nearly as bad as yours seems to be, I will grant that TAGS did change for the worse in those color years. And although I have not read this in so many words, I think Andy realized he'd had enough after 5 years and his main comic character gone, and he may have hated his own decision to change his mind and continue. The reason Don Knotts signed his contract for a series of movies was (he said) because Andy had told him that he intended to do the series for only 5 years (if it were successful that long), and at the beginning of the 5th season he was still saying that. So Knotts began looking around for other opportunities and made his decision. Then, near the end of the 5th season, Andy told him that he had decided to stay with the series after all; so it was decided that Barney needed a replacement. The mistake was in trying to continue the same character-- the bumbling eager-beaver deputy there to menace the sheriff with comical antics that are very serious to himself. Andy said they told Burns it wasn't "Don Knotts material" they would be giving him, when he knew that wasn't true. Andy has admiited, though, that the failure of the Warren character was the production company's fault, not Jack Burns'. So, with such a bad beginning, it's my opinion Andy must have thought he'd done the wrong thing even in continuing the series at all, and that made him the tyrant on the set some have claimed he was, as well as putting less into his character, which obviously affected the entire show.

But even without the above situations, a series sooner or later gets to where all the good plot possibilities have been used up. When Howard Sprague was brought in, he was a new possibility, so he was featured in a lot of different ways central to many episodes-- joining the lodge, creating a bachelor pad, mentoring a troubled student, learning to fish, becoming a TV comic (!), even leaving to become a beachcomber on a little island. But he and his awkwardness couldn't be the big feature in every ep, so another idea was to 'expand Aunt Bee's horizons.' She did things she wouldn't have done in the earlier seasons-- owning a restaurant, learning to fly, running for city council, becoming a TV chef (!)... similarities? But since Aunt Bee was the anchor in the domestic side of the show (TAGS was half sitcom, and half domestic comedy), she had to return to that role, which meant she had to fail in these other endeavors, or give them up when she was going well.

So... main comic character gone [but to return a few times], a big mistake in trying to replace him in too literal a sense, a chip on the shoulder of the man who had final say and who played the main character, the best plot conceptions long used up.... yeah, the show would be quite different. But it is an ironic twist that season 8 was both the last and the only season in which TAGS finished Neilson #1.

You do make a lot of very good and valid points.

I believe there were a couple of good additions to the cast, or upgrades if you will. First and foremost, Arlene Golonka as Millie Hutchins, although in my opinion she was not used enough. Second was Flora.

There were also some very good guest stars: Ruta Lee (as Darlene Mason), Elizabeth Macrae (Howard dances with her, while supposed to be doing schoolwork with her younger brother), Gavin MacLeod ("Sheriff without a gun" movie actor, playing Andy), and Whitney Blake (female attorney Lee Drake). All of these guests were terrific in some good episodes.

There were some highlights of the color seasons: The Taylors go to Hollywood for the movie shoot of "Sheriff Without a Gun," Howard catches silver carp "Old Sam," and then there was the Mayberry High reunion, where Barney finds that Thelma Lou is now married. Andy meets high society when it turns out Opie's friend is from a rich family -- remember about Andy's rowboat, and ultimately the group wants to go fishing with Andy?

While some fans have little interest in the color seasons, I especially liked those eps, in addition to Barney's other return appearances. I really believe that there were some great eps done.

They stopped having The Darlings and Ernest T. Bass in the show and to me, this was a huge mistake.

As you are most likely aware, there was one color episode featuring The Darling Family.

Yes, it's a shame they only had the Darlings in one of the color shows. They were my favorites other than the original cast.

I often wonder what happen to Warren anyways? For a few episodes he was there,and then he vanished and was never scene again.
Yeah I know it was a behind the scenes thing. But still you think they would of had an episode where Warren tells Andy that he was moving on.
Hey Coy and Vance was not on anyones favorite list either on The Dukes of Hazzard.But atleast they gave Coy and Vance a goodbye scene in there final apearence before joining Warren on The Never to be scene again list.

Establishing the Warren character should have been a main priority for season 6. If it had been properly done they might have been able to transition the series without introducing the Sam Jones character. Warren should have been given a build up and back story that would have helped establish a relationship with the audience.

In addition, the on screen relationship between Andy and Warren was so bad that trying to establish a graceful exit would have been next to impossible. The only way out was writing the character out like he never existed.

In defense of the Griffith show this was common in the TV world of the
1960's. How did Petticoat Junction deal (or not deal) with the death of it's star. How did Gunsmoke deal (or not deal) with the exit of Chester. The Griffith show didn't deal with exit of Ellie, or the two mayors or for that matter the exit of Barney until the return of Barney episode. Floyd's exit was dealt with in one line (he opened a shop in Mount Pilot).

Establishing the Warren character should have been a main priority for season 6. If it had been properly done they might have been able to transition the series without introducing the Sam Jones character. Warren should have been given a build up and back story that would have helped establish a relationship with the audience.

In addition, the on screen relationship between Andy and Warren was so bad that trying to establish a graceful exit would have been next to impossible. The only way out was writing the character out like he never existed.

In defense of the Griffith show this was common in the TV world of the
1960's. How did Petticoat Junction deal (or not deal) with the death of it's star. How did Gunsmoke deal (or not deal) with the exit of Chester. The Griffith show didn't deal with exit of Ellie, or the two mayors or for that matter the exit of Barney until the return of Barney episode. Floyd's exit was dealt with in one line (he opened a shop in Mount Pilot).

Yeah also Joseph Kearns who play Mr.Wilson on Dennis The Menace died during the Dennis The Menace shows run. They ended up getting Gale Gordon to take his place.
Been so many years since I watched Dennis The Menace as I dont even remember how they explained George Willson being gone?

As you are most likely aware, there was one color episode featuring The Darling Family.
And a color ep with Bass too!

What happened here? The obvious answer in the departure of Don Knotts. Some will say it was the Knott's departure and going to color, but a closer look tells a more complicated story.

First and foremost, Griffith's performance level dropped through the floor. In some episodes his character seemed to sleepwalk through the show. Others he ranged from annoyed to verging on anger management issues. One episode, Opie is taking music lessons from Clara, there is a scene where Andy orders Aunt Bee in the car in a manner that shows almost contempt for her.
Question one, what happened to Griffith that he allowed his character to be presented in this light?

Second, Sheriff Andy, when the character of Warren failed to catch hold all the activity around the jail that use to be such a large part of the show had to come to an end. Andy had no one to interact with around the jail so there were fewer and fewer jail based episodes. Why? I know people didn't like the Warren character but shouldn't the writers and again Andy take the bulk of the blame. Andy was the gatekeeper to characters as they entered the Mayberry universe, if Andy liked the person the audience liked them. Look at the scenes between Warren and Andy, with Barney there was tolerance and understanding as his unique view of the world was unfolded, with Warren contempt and rage. How was the audience suppose to feel with that as an introduction. That's Andy and the writers fault. Question two, wasn't the failure of Warren more a reflection on the Griffith production company (and particularly Andy) than on Jack Burns?

Third, the scripts were weak. Look at the Aunt Bee episodes, Aunt Bee owns a restaurant , Aunt Bee learns to drive, Aunt Bee learns to fly (this seemed completely ridiculous), it was almost like the writers were going through the motions. Third question, Andy understood the characters why didn't he demand better writers and better scripts (he was a major star and had the power) ?

Consider the fact that other shows lost main characters over the years and replaced them without the show falling into utter disarray, (MASH, Mary Tyler Moore for example), Fourth, with all due respect to Paul Hartman (Emmet),
Jack Dodson (Howard), and Aneta Corsaut (Helen), couldn't the supporting cast have been upgraded a tad over this line up?

Something happened here which made no sense. The show that was on the first five seasons could be argued to be the best sitcom up to that point in time in TV history, the show the last three seasons wasn't even run of mill sitcom. If the show had started out with this cast I doubt it would have lasted more than one season. If the show had started out with scripts like this I doubt it would have lasted more than one season. If the show had started out with it's lead character presented in the manner Andy Taylor was in the final three seasons I doubt it would have lasted more than one season.
Duster, I think Andy Griffith just worked for the producers. He wasn't one of them to the best of my knowledge! Just because a show is called your name doesn't necessarily mean you call all the shots. He was unlike Donna Reed both starring and making her show. I believe Donna and her husband Tony actually made and produced the show (that show was a Todon production). Griffith and his wife did'n't produce TAGS! Warren played by Jack Burns was probably not Andy Griffith's idea ever but I think he may have got Burns kicked off the show!

Actually Andy had 50% ownership of the show. He also was the producer of the companion series Mayberry RFD, there was a recent article in the Roanoke Times about Andy's life. An old Don Knott's interview is quoted in the article in which he states Andy had a hand in writing every episode. Knotts regularly referred to it as the Griffith company in interviews done in later years. Griffith needs to be held accountable (as well as the rest of the production company).

I loved this show as a kid it was just so disappointing to me that is went downhill the last three years and seeing those episodes on TV Land brought the whole thing back.

In defense of Andy, how was he to know the show would endure into the 21st Century. If he had not decided to go on and ended the show after 5 years a case could have been made that it was the best sitcom of all time (I'm not saying it is, but I am saying the case could be made), with the baggage of the final three seasons to carry that case can not be made.

The color seasons were still great in my opinion, but did throw in a few clunkers. I didn't like the one where the Italian family moved to town and lived with Sam. I hate "The Senior Play". Some though were awesome. Like "Old Sam" and the one where Howard and Andy get captured by crooks. I like the one where Howard runs for city council against Aunt Bee. I like the one where Emmit tries to sell insurance to keep his wife happy.

Anyway, it was still great, but impossible to live up to the standard set by the first five seasons.

Three reasons:

1.)Barney has left the building. After Andy Griffith deciding to end the series, Don Knotts signs up for a movie and when Andy backs out they lose the Barney character.

2.)Colored episodes. When your use to seeing the same design over and over then you switch to something thats a big negative in my book.

3.)Introduction of Warren. First off all the lines Warren said were written for Don Knotts, but people still hated the character. That just tells you how much love there was of Barney and how much hate there was for Warren. They should have at least designed a persona for Warren more.

When Barney left & the episodes came in color thats when I stopped watching it.

Three reasons:

1.)Barney has left the building. After Andy Griffith deciding to end the series, Don Knotts signs up for a movie and when Andy backs out they lose the Barney character.

2.)Colored episodes. When your use to seeing the same design over and over then you switch to something thats a big negative in my book.

3.)Introduction of Warren. First off all the lines Warren said were written for Don Knotts, but people still hated the character. That just tells you how much love there was of Barney and how much hate there was for Warren. They should have at least designed a persona for Warren more.

When Barney left & the episodes came in color thats when I stopped watching it.

Great points!

I think that the main point in all of this is that Don Knott's Barney is irreplaceable. It would be like doing "Leave it to Beaver" with a different Jerry Mathers. If you do something like that, similar in concept to changing Barney's landmark role, bringing in Warren, you destroy a role and a traditional expectation that Don Knotts was born to play. Take away Don, you lose Barney, and you lose such an incredible greatness and quality of TAGS that can't be restored.

I think Andy knew this, and it negatively affected his performance. Knowing how much Don's "Barney" brought to the show, it's easy to understand why.

Jack

Why didn't Don rejoin the show during the 7th season?

But don't forget, it was the No. 1 show on TV in its final year (1967-68)

...Andy was "marking time". He wanted to end his series, but CBS and sponsor General Foods wouldn't let him (top five series for the former, too profitable for the latter). Unfortunately, some of his resentment found its way into the last three seasons- yet, viewers made him THE #1 show in his final season. Finally, he got the network and sponsor to agree to a compromise: he'd "step aside" during the last handful of episodes in season eight, to allow Ken Berry's "Sam Jones" to succeed him as the lead character, then produce a "new" series that fall, "MAYBERRY R.F.D."- which was virtually the same as Andy's- without Andy [even though "Andy Taylor" would appear occasionally during the first season, so as not to disappoint any faithful viewers]. However, in a fall promo for the "new show" (seen a few weeks before its premiere on September 23, 1968), CBS made it appear as though Andy was still an active cast member {they were still concerned about his leaving, and tried to conceal that fact from viewers as long as possible}. They needn't have worried: "MAYBERRY R.F.D." was just as popular as Andy's series had been (#4 in its first season).

:tv:

Yeah also Joseph Kearns who play Mr.Wilson on Dennis The Menace died during the Dennis The Menace shows run. They ended up getting Gale Gordon to take his place.
Been so many years since I watched Dennis The Menace as I dont even remember how they explained George Willson being gone?

From what I've read, since I don't remember seeing these particular shows, George Wilson was out of town for some reason, and his brother, John, was his wife, Martha's, house guest for the remaining 6 eps filmed that season. That fall John had his own wife, Eloise, in the house, and Martha Wilson had left for good.

...died of a cerebral hemorrage in March 1962, just before production of season three had ended. Because of this, the producers were forced to have George Wilson "leave town" for an indefinite period, so that Martha could invite George's brother John {Gale Gordon} to stay with her for a while. The idea was to have Gordon firmly implanted in viewers' minds as "the" Mr. Wilson, so by the beginning of the following season [the one where Dennis began to wear long pants instead of his trademark overalls], Martha Wilson was also "eliminated" from the series' storyline; it was explained that she and George had taken an extended cruise, leaving their home in the care of John and his wife Eloise {Sara Seegar}. That may have been the best short term solution, but in the long run, the series was no longer what it had been [Dennis and John Wilson did not have the same chemistry that he had with George, and Dennis was growing up "too fast"]. And the fact that the series was now opposite "WALT DISNEY'S WONDERFUL WORLD OF COLOR" on NBC didn't help, either. It ended after its fourth season in 1963, with co-sponsors Kellogg's and Best Foods sustaining its successor, "MY FAVORITE MARTIAN".

:tv:

Three reasons:

3.)Introduction of Warren. First off all the lines Warren said were written for Don Knotts, but people still hated the character. That just tells you how much love there was of Barney and how much hate there was for Warren. They should have at least designed a persona for Warren more.



Looking back, it makes sense that they should have made the Warren character different, but in that time era, it's surprising that they didn't just have Jack Burns play Barney Fife.

M*A*S*H is the first show I remember that replaced characters with characters that were very different. Too bad they didn't do that on TAGS.

Why didn't Don rejoin the show during the 7th season?

It is easy to that Don Knotts went on to a very successful big screen career post-TAGS, one that lasted into the 70's before he took on the role as Mr. Furley. While most of his films are now largely forgotten (and many forgettable IMO), at the time they were quite successful at the box office. I love some of the work he did with Tim Conway.

About the color episodes, they weren't IMO nearly as good as the black-and-whites for many of the reasons already stated on this thread. However, they weren't as a whole terrible, and the show remained top-10 even when it was eventually cancelled as Mayberry RFD. Jack Burns was a very funny comic. His best work was later when paired with Avery Schreiber for routines on numerous variety shows. His humor and material were very northeastern-oriented, therefore Burns was badly miscast for TAGS. As stated above, that wasn't his his fault; Andy and the shows producers are to blame for that casting decision and the bad material. Props they quickly recognized it wouldn't work. The Warren episodes are the worst of the lot for the color-episodes-era.

On the other hand, I very much like Jack Dodson's character, Howard. Some of the episodes centuring on Howard, Goober, and Emmitt are quite funny. My favorite among the non-Barney color episodes is the one where Opie writes an essay about the "Battle of Mayberry." I agree that Griffith seemed to be going through the motions those last 3 years, unlike the first 5where his character was very engaged. The color episodes of TAGS along with RFD seem to be more or less about the town as a whole and not so much a specific character. The first 5 years are mainly about Andy and Barney, with the jailhouse being the center of gravity.

Wow, lots of great analysis here. I won't repeat what's already been said, but I'll add a few theories.
1) The supporting cast...sometimes second tier characters add a lot to the show, but are best in small doses (Uncle Arthur in Bewitched, Eddie Haskell in Leave It To Beaver, etc). When theyre on too much, they lose part of their appeal. I think in the final three years of TAGS , we saw WAY too much of Goober, who I loved as a supporting player. Howard Sprague was a good addition, different than most of the characters we had seen before, but Emmett was AWFUL in my opinion. I guess he was supposed to be a replacement for Floyd, but while Floyd was goofy and endearing, Emmett was just cranky and annoying.

2) Lovable Andy/Miserable Andy...part of the reason Andy Taylor slipped as a character was Grifith just phoning it in, but another part of it was that Andy Taylor had nobody to bring out the lovable side of him. No Barney to look out for, no Floyd who just cracked him up, and with a cold fish like Helen, who wouldnt be miserable?

[QUOTE=brgmgb]Looking back, it makes sense that they should have made the Warren character different, but in that time era, it's surprising that they didn't just have Jack Burns play Barney Fife.

I've always thought that they should have replaced Barney Fife with the character of Charlene Darling's husband, Dud, when Don Knotts left. Charlene was a hoot, and if she and Dud had moved into town, this would also have naturally prolonged the shelf-life of the fabulous Dillards.

Dud had already been played once on TAGS by Bob Denver, and Denver may have been just goofy enough to have actually filled the Barney-void. He was already well-known to TV viewers, having played Maynard G. Krebs on "Dobie Gillis," and most importantly, he was a likeable, tried and true sidekick-- unlike the doomed Jack Burns.

Later on, Denver would go on to play another great side-kick and bungler, a la Knotts, on his own show, "Gilligan's Island," but I doubt if anyone would have really minded waiting a few years on production of that property. It's not like the "Gilligan's" cast was going anyplace on their own!

Anyhow, Denver could have finished out his TAGS run, and then set off on that fateful "3 hour cruise"! Everyone wins.

The last three seasons were a comedown to be sure, but the Warren episodes were the worst. I remember seeing Jack Burns doing his "Huh? yeah!" routine ad nauseum when these were first aired in 1965 and really hating his displacement of Don Knotts. It is interesting to note that ME-TV only runs the first five Don Knotts seasons. Like Bewitched, TAGS should have hung it up while they were still ahead.

I still find it interesting that the show hit #1 in its final season. For better of for worse America still loved TAGS. I also did not care for the characters of Emmet or Howard. However I enjoyed Sam and Millie.

Did anyone also notice how when Don Knotts guest starred in the later episodes Andy was funny and friendlier like he was in the earlier episodes?

Bob Denver would've been a good choice but was obviously unavailable. He was starting up Season 2 as the star of "Gilligan's Island" which itself had great ratings.

The most frequently mentioned "Why didn't they think of it?" name could very well have been Knotts' own future movie co-star, Tim Conway. He was doing the last season of "McHale's Navy" at the time, and if they couldn't have pulled him away during that season they could've tried again at the beginning of TAGS season 7. He could've handled the bumbling deputy role perfectly, perhaps with a sympathetic lack of confidence to counterweight Barney's overabundance of it. That would've brought out Andy's protective and perhaps warmer side, as opposed to the rather stubborn Warren who never listened to Andy and talked all over him. (I would've stayed angry all the time too if my only deputy disrespected me that badly. It's a wonder Andy didn't just belt him during the "bingo" episode. Again, not Jack Burns' fault.)

And could you imagine what one of Knotts' return guest appearances would've been like if he and Conway worked together on some kind of case?

I don't think the last seasons were to bad. I just watched the who series on Netflix and think it was great till the end. I mean it's last season it was number 1.

I believe it was Carl Reiner who once said, the average sitcom is good for about 100 episodes and then after that it starts to become recycled and then stale. I couldn't agree more.

After Don Knotts left, i believe "The Andy Griffith Show" just became downright boring. I actually can remember falling asleep less than halfway through many of those episodes, but the ratings were still there, and as someone on here noted, when "the Andy Griffith Show" finally left the airwaves in 1968, it was the No. 1 show on TV, even three years after Don Knotts left. Go figure.

I recently started watching reruns of "The Beverly Hillbillies" again and noticed that the best episodes of that series were the first three years (the black and white shows). Once the show went to color, and in the remaining seasons, the show just got more and more ridiculous. Jethro was over-the-top, the inherited a castle in England, they bought New York City....wildly contrived premises that were just too silly to be funny. But, the show ran for nine years...again, go figure.

But I think that years ago, audiences stayed loyal to shows much longer than they do now.

What happened here? The obvious answer in the departure of Don Knotts. Some will say it was the Knott's departure and going to color, but a closer look tells a more complicated story.

First and foremost, Griffith's performance level dropped through the floor. In some episodes his character seemed to sleepwalk through the show. Others he ranged from annoyed to verging on anger management issues. One episode, Opie is taking music lessons from Clara, there is a scene where Andy orders Aunt Bee in the car in a manner that shows almost contempt for her.
Question one, what happened to Griffith that he allowed his character to be presented in this light?

Second, Sheriff Andy, when the character of Warren failed to catch hold all the activity around the jail that use to be such a large part of the show had to come to an end. Andy had no one to interact with around the jail so there were fewer and fewer jail based episodes. Why? I know people didn't like the Warren character but shouldn't the writers and again Andy take the bulk of the blame. Andy was the gatekeeper to characters as they entered the Mayberry universe, if Andy liked the person the audience liked them. Look at the scenes between Warren and Andy, with Barney there was tolerance and understanding as his unique view of the world was unfolded, with Warren contempt and rage. How was the audience suppose to feel with that as an introduction. That's Andy and the writers fault. Question two, wasn't the failure of Warren more a reflection on the Griffith production company (and particularly Andy) than on Jack Burns?

Third, the scripts were weak. Look at the Aunt Bee episodes, Aunt Bee owns a restaurant , Aunt Bee learns to drive, Aunt Bee learns to fly (this seemed completely ridiculous), it was almost like the writers were going through the motions. Third question, Andy understood the characters why didn't he demand better writers and better scripts (he was a major star and had the power) ?

Consider the fact that other shows lost main characters over the years and replaced them without the show falling into utter disarray, (MASH, Mary Tyler Moore for example), Fourth, with all due respect to Paul Hartman (Emmet),
Jack Dodson (Howard), and Aneta Corsaut (Helen), couldn't the supporting cast have been upgraded a tad over this line up?

Something happened here which made no sense. The show that was on the first five seasons could be argued to be the best sitcom up to that point in time in TV history, the show the last three seasons wasn't even run of mill sitcom. If the show had started out with this cast I doubt it would have lasted more than one season. If the show had started out with scripts like this I doubt it would have lasted more than one season. If the show had started out with it's lead character presented in the manner Andy Taylor was in the final three seasons I doubt it would have lasted more than one season.

Excellent opener on what went wrong with the Andy Griffith Show whe it switched to color/lost Don Knotts.

You nailed the question of the ages on the strange "angry" behavior of Andy during these years... will we ever really know what happened to cause this out of character behavior?

The bottom line: the show was really the chemistry between Andy and Barney. Without Barney, there was nothing.

The Andy/Barney dynamic was vital to the show, but you can't say the show wa "nothing" without it. The Andy/Opie relationship was just as vital, and early episodes with Aunt Bee were great as well (before she learned to fly LOL)

The Andy/Barney dynamic was vital to the show, but you can't say the show wa "nothing" without it. The Andy/Opie relationship was just as vital, and early episodes with Aunt Bee were great as well (before she learned to fly LOL)

True, the Andy & Barney comedy team was a great one, in a way similar to Martin & Lewis, and Don Knotts sort of drifted off into films very much in the Jerry Lewis style. I guess Andy Griffith was really ready to move on, so the AGS just became a chore to him, working if for the money, pretty much.

But there were many elements to the show I love, and were a part of the success as a whole besides just Barney and Andy.

I know this thread was started over 4 years ago, but my attention was brought back to it via email. And some of these more recent posts seem to show a bit of mystery as to why TAGS went out as #1, 3 years after Don Knotts left it as a regular; coupled, as I've seen, with another poster's reference to The Beverly Hillbillies also getting stale, and more ridiculous, as it aged-- meaning primarily after it went to color.

Well, the mystery, if there be one, can be explained by the goings on in real world at that time. Television was largely escapism in those years. While that had begun earlier in the 60's, as shown by popular shows like TAGS and Mr. Ed, the Hillbillies soaring to #1 after their first 4 weeks in '62 largely clinched what television comedy would be like for a few years. Before long there were Martians, witches, ghouls (The Munsters, The Addams Family), genies (or Jeanies), Hooterville, F Troop and Sherwood Schwartz' "microcosm" Gilligan's Island,. The thing is, real world and real USA issues were so serious and sometimes ugly, that an imaginary world was very attractive. That of course, was not a brand new theme, and the times before and after have their own versions. But TV was still new enough that there were limited programming options, and many families had only one screen to watch, such that those real events were for the news, and 'family-friendly' comedy was to get away from all that and laugh at the improbable. After all, there's plenty of reality for everyone.

Where TAGS fits into this is in a sticky position of providing the momentary getaway without creating a totally absurd setting. There was nothing supernatural in the show other than an occasional comical fear of it, and Mayberry wasn't a place where they still showed silent movies and sang Tin Pan Alley songs as if they were the latest (as the Henning comedies). But it was mostly free from the political and social issues tearing the country apart, and this was done largely by having the supporting cast be like naive, rural children, while Andy had the common sense to settle disputes and right things. This was more his 'job' as sheriff than doing what a real sheriff does; but he does just enough of the latter to show that he is, also, a competent man of power and law, thus reinforcing his role as a wise arbiter. In the b&w years, he had one "child" in particular he had to watch, but after that child was gone, any of the townfolk could take that role.

So that's essentially my theory of how the show stayed so popular after its main comic character left it. So many viewers liked the weekly escape, but it wasn't with an absurd setting that had to get even more ridiculous. And Andy, it should be noted, really hated it when the "rural purge" came in '70-'71, and Mayberry was identified with Green Acres and the Beverly Hillbillies as a "hayseed show."

I know this thread was started over 4 years ago, but my attention was brought back to it via email. And some of these more recent posts seem to show a bit of mystery as to why TAGS went out as #1, 3 years after Don Knotts left it as a regular; coupled, as I've seen, with another poster's reference to The Beverly Hillbillies also getting stale, and more ridiculous, as it aged-- meaning primarily after it went to color.

Well, the mystery, if there be one, can be explained by the goings on in real world at that time. Television was largely escapism in those years. While that had begun earlier in the 60's, as shown by popular shows like TAGS and Mr. Ed, the Hillbillies soaring to #1 after their first 4 weeks in '62 largely clinched what television comedy would be like for a few years. Before long there were Martians, witches, ghouls (The Munsters, The Addams Family), genies (or Jeanies), Hooterville, F Troop and Sherwood Schwartz' "microcosm" Gilligan's Island,. The thing is, real world and real USA issues were so serious and sometimes ugly, that an imaginary world was very attractive. That of course, was not a brand new theme, and the times before and after have their own versions. But TV was still new enough that there were limited programming options, and many families had only one screen to watch, such that those real events were for the news, and 'family-friendly' comedy was to get away from all that and laugh at the improbable. After all, there's plenty of reality for everyone.

Where TAGS fits into this is in a sticky position of providing the momentary getaway without creating a totally absurd setting. There was nothing supernatural in the show other than an occasional comical fear of it, and Mayberry wasn't a place where they still showed silent movies and sang Tin Pan Alley songs as if they were the latest (as the Henning comedies). But it was mostly free from the political and social issues tearing the country apart, and this was done largely by having the supporting cast be like naive, rural children, while Andy had the common sense to settle disputes and right things. This was more his 'job' as sheriff than doing what a real sheriff does; but he does just enough of the latter to show that he is, also, a competent man of power and law, thus reinforcing his role as a wise arbiter. In the b&w years, he had one "child" in particular he had to watch, but after that child was gone, any of the townfolk could take that role.

So that's essentially my theory of how the show stayed so popular after its main comic character left it. So many viewers liked the weekly escape, but it wasn't with an absurd setting that had to get even more ridiculous. And Andy, it should be noted, really hated it when the "rural purge" came in '70-'71, and Mayberry was identified with Green Acres and the Beverly Hillbillies as a "hayseed show."

Yes, thankfully, the AGS did stay away from introducing magic or science fiction or even the surrealism of say, Green Acres even.

Sometimes it is best to go out on top of your game. When Barney left it was time to call it a day in Mayberry. Had Knotts stayed the show also might have gotten in a rut. They had magic for 5 seasons. I know the show was still popular even spinning into RFD but TAGS was a 5 year classic run.

I think even if Don Knotts stayed on into the color seasons, it still would have been subpar because the good writers were gone and Bob Ross didn't have the same level of quality control as Aaron Reuben did. Barney no doubt would have followed the rest of the cast in the show transitioning from a strict comedy to more of a comedy-drama.

I know this thread was started over 4 years ago, but my attention was brought back to it via email. And some of these more recent posts seem to show a bit of mystery as to why TAGS went out as #1, 3 years after Don Knotts left it as a regular; coupled, as I've seen, with another poster's reference to The Beverly Hillbillies also getting stale, and more ridiculous, as it aged-- meaning primarily after it went to color.

Well, the mystery, if there be one, can be explained by the goings on in real world at that time. Television was largely escapism in those years. While that had begun earlier in the 60's, as shown by popular shows like TAGS and Mr. Ed, the Hillbillies soaring to #1 after their first 4 weeks in '62 largely clinched what television comedy would be like for a few years. Before long there were Martians, witches, ghouls (The Munsters, The Addams Family), genies (or Jeanies), Hooterville, F Troop and Sherwood Schwartz' "microcosm" Gilligan's Island,. The thing is, real world and real USA issues were so serious and sometimes ugly, that an imaginary world was very attractive. That of course, was not a brand new theme, and the times before and after have their own versions. But TV was still new enough that there were limited programming options, and many families had only one screen to watch, such that those real events were for the news, and 'family-friendly' comedy was to get away from all that and laugh at the improbable. After all, there's plenty of reality for everyone.

Indeed, this was long before audience demographics came into vogue, and as a result, producers and networks generally focused on mass appeal, since they believed that people watched television as a family, just as how they had gathered around to listen to the radio years before. Therefore, they would often try to have shows as sweetened as possible to avoid offending any member of the mass audience. In fact, when the show first began in 1960, Andy Griffith originally wanted Mayberry to have black residents as well as white residents. Unfortunately, however, CBS nixed the idea, claiming that it would alienate white residents of the pre-Civil Rights laws era South, and that as a result, many Southern CBS affiliates would refuse to air the show.

I have a theory that, in the years approaching the "rural purge," some rural shows were tinkering to move away from exagerated country characters and more toward generic America. Andy Griffith Show and Petticoat Junction are the best examples, but I also think Green Acres was calmed down somewhat in its last season.

Definitely, as a southern viewer, I can see how the characters all almost lose the heavy drawls of the earlier seasons... that move to a more "generic America".

Opie's friends and cameo/minor characters even sound like they're in Brooklyn or somewhere.

:D

I think even if Don Knotts stayed on into the color seasons, it still would have been subpar because the good writers were gone and Bob Ross didn't have the same level of quality control as Aaron Reuben did. Barney no doubt would have followed the rest of the cast in the show transitioning from a strict comedy to more of a comedy-drama.

I think you nailed it in the problem was with the writers, they just didn't seem to "get" Mayberry or the people who lived there.

The color episodes were a real "snooze". Lifeless, pointless almost except for a handful. I think the show could have ended after five years in 1965. It had 160 episodes by that point which is long enough for any show.

Also, you had Barney and Gomer. When they left, who picked up the slack? Goober? Howard? No way those 2 were better than Barney and Gomer. Not even close.

I think seasons 4-5 were more somber & less comedy. Writers were either changing &/or not coming up with new, creative ideas anymore. I .have yet to watch 1 color episode besides the one with a very young & good looking Jack Nicholson. Normally I have seasons 1-4 on play, Netflix:crazy:

I could do without Gomer Pyle and I heard in real life Jim Naghers (spelling) was very difficult to work with & just a plain AHOLE all around.

:frosty: :rant: :cuss:

The bottom line: the show was really the chemistry between Andy and Barney. Without Barney, there was nothing.

They were a comedy team, really.

I have a theory that, in the years approaching the "rural purge," some rural shows were tinkering to move away from exagerated country characters and more toward generic America. Andy Griffith Show and Petticoat Junction are the best examples, but I also think Green Acres was calmed down somewhat in its last season.

Yes, such as the non-regular actors playing Mayberry residents speaking in the clearly "Not Southern" accents.