According to wikipedia, former Iron Butterfly bass guitarist Philip Taylor Kramer made a strange final phone call to the police saying:

"I'm going to kill myself. And I want everyone to know O.J. Simpson is innocent. They did it."

I remember the episode from Lifetime and Im quite sure they never mentioned Kramer's O.J. statement. If he actually did say this, I would think UM would want to cash in on the popularity of the football star's trial and just the strange nature of the reference. Did he actually mention OJ and why did UM leave that part out if he did?

Christopher :wave:

According to wikipedia, former Iron Butterfly bass guitarist Philip Taylor Kramer made a strange final phone call to the police saying:

"I'm going to kill myself. And I want everyone to know O.J. Simpson is innocent. They did it."

I remember the episode from Lifetime and Im quite sure they never mentioned Kramer's O.J. statement. If he actually did say this, I would think UM would want to cash in on the popularity of the football star's trial and just the strange nature of the reference. Did he actually mention OJ and why did UM leave that part out if he did?

Christopher :wave:

The OJ comment has been mentioned in other sources, so by all accounts he did say it. Why UM didn't mention it is anyone's guess. (Maybe they weren't prepared to "cash in" on the OJ case?) But the mere mention of the OJ Simpson case in several segments, as well as the 1996 segment where Alan Dershowitz and former prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi debated on whether evidence could have been planted, kind of made up for that.

According to wikipedia, former Iron Butterfly bass guitarist Philip Taylor Kramer made a strange final phone call to the police saying:

"I'm going to kill myself. And I want everyone to know O.J. Simpson is innocent. They did it."

I remember the episode from Lifetime and Im quite sure they never mentioned Kramer's O.J. statement. If he actually did say this, I would think UM would want to cash in on the popularity of the football star's trial and just the strange nature of the reference. Did he actually mention OJ and why did UM leave that part out if he did?

Christopher :wave:

At the time that aired, he was still missing.

My guess is UM didn't want to stir the pot too much by airing a comment that could potentially be deemed controversial by some.

And, as Kane said, UM would have other opportunities to cash in on the OJ debacle.

They did a UM segment on this case? Did they not air it much or something?

They did a UM segment on this case? Did they not air it much or something?

Yes it aired fairly often. Its on volume 11. I found an interesting article about him:

http://www.maximonline.com/articles/index.aspx?a_id=2193

Also I found a part in an article that I'll link below that explains why UM left out the OJ comment:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040807081111/www.mrkabc.com/mrkabc/news/kramer01.html

Let's play that suicide tape again:

" . . . This is Philip Taylor Kramer."

"Uh-huh. This is 911. Can I help you, sir?"

"Yes, you can. I'm going to kill myself."

Silence.

That is where the tape ended when it was played on two national TV shows. But it is not the end of the tape. Kramer's family authorized release of the 911 tape to the news media on condition that the next thing he said not be aired.

Here it is:

"And I want everyone to know: O.J. Simpson is innocent. They did it."

This illuminates something. Something of which Rep. Traficant, for all his conspiratorial certitude, was unaware. In the final days before his disappearance, Taylor Kramer was under nearly unendurable stress, pressing in on him from all directions, from within and without, from the past and present and future.

By most indications, he was quietly but emphatically going mad.

I think I agree with the family's decision. Airing that portion of the call would not have helped and might have hurt the search for Mr. Kramer. It may have caused people to write Mr. Kramer off as a man who had simply lost his grip on reality and wandered off to die. Whether that was their reasoning or they simply desired to minimize the impact such a comment might have on his loved ones, I understand why Unsolved Mysteries went along with it.

Oscar Levant said it best with "There is a thin line between genius and insanity."

The loss of a man such as Kramer was a large one to the scientific community.

Airing that portion of the call would not have helped and might have hurt the search for Mr. Kramer. It may have caused people to write Mr. Kramer off as a man who had simply lost his grip on reality and wandered off to die.

Bingo. The correct answer to the question "why did (or didn't) UM do (such or such)" is always this: To make it seem as mysterious as possible!

In the later years of UM, there was an (I think) unfortunate move to begin profiling cases of famous people who either died mysteriously or were connected to those who did: Katherine Korzilius, Kurt Cobain, George Reeves, etc.

Taylor Kramer was a poor choice. It was an obvious case of a guy who went off the deep end and took his life. The segment tried to make it seem like a case of sleep deprivation rather than insanity. The OJ comment would have confirmed the latter, and Pop! There goes the mystery.

The only other semblances of a mystery that would have been left would have been the fact the van and the body were never found, and the eyewitness accounts. I don't know about you, but I pretty much wrote off all the eyewitness accounts for all of the usual reasons. As for the body and van never being recovered, I don't think that indicates he is still alive any more than it indicates he found a nice secluded place to die.

I just saw this case on Lifetime's UM today and I'm surprised a search of this website only turned up this thread. As I'm sure you all know, there was an update provided on this case.

"Four years after Taylor's disappearance, two hikers exploring Decker Canyon near Malibu Beach discovered the rusted shell of his van. Taylor's remains were inside. The cause of death was blunt force trauma. But authorities cannot determine whether his death was a suicide, accident, or homicide".

It seems suspicious to me that they found blunt force trauma to be the cause of death, as it seems an unlikely way to commit suicide. They did not mention if the van was damaged (i.e., if the blunt force trauma may have been caused by suicide by intentional car accident) but I'd think they'd mention something so obviously relevant.

Well, after some googling, I just answered my own question:
"The vehicle was discovered over the weekend in a canyon in the Santa Monica Mountains. It was badly damaged after careening more than 400 feet off Decker Canyon Road, about 1 1/2 miles east of Pacific Coast Highway."
http://articles.latimes.com/1999/jun/01/local/me-43051

Picture of the scene (http://www.mplus.com.tw/images/article/669/1424062154_el-coche-de-taylor-kramer-fue-rescatado-en-el-cac3b1c3b3n-decker-en-malibc3ba.jpg)

Seems like a likely suicide by a mentally ill man to me. Very odd that UM didn't mention the vehicle damage and left it as a complete mystery, but then they seem to oddly leave out completely relevant information at times.

Well, after some googling, I just answered my own question:
"The vehicle was discovered over the weekend in a canyon in the Santa Monica Mountains. It was badly damaged after careening more than 400 feet off Decker Canyon Road, about 1 1/2 miles east of Pacific Coast Highway."
http://articles.latimes.com/1999/jun/01/local/me-43051

Picture of the scene (http://www.mplus.com.tw/images/article/669/1424062154_el-coche-de-taylor-kramer-fue-rescatado-en-el-cac3b1c3b3n-decker-en-malibc3ba.jpg)

Seems like a likely suicide by a mentally ill man to me. Very odd that UM didn't mention the vehicle damage and left it as a complete mystery, but then they seem to oddly leave out completely relevant information at times.

In the original UM, I am fairly sure they did mention the van being found in a canyon off the road. And the assumption was accident or suicide.....the reboot Spike version may have chopped these "trivial" details off.

In the original UM, I am fairly sure they did mention the van being found in a canyon off the road. And the assumption was accident or suicide.....the reboot Spike version may have chopped these "trivial" details off.

Chris- sorry if I wasn't clear. I know UM aired the update. I meant I was surprised the case update didn't show up in my search of sitcomsonline UM forum. I was also trying to say that UM didn't mention whether the "blunt force trauma" appeared to be related to an intentional accident with the vehicle, but the article I found indicates it was.

This one fascinates me partly because it came out of left field-- I have zero memory of watching it, yet it's a great mystery.
The dude's wife was gorgeous, he had fame when he was young, he was brilliant, yet... he wanted to kill himself because the company was in ruins..?

I just feel like there is more to this case than just "he was falling on hard financial times."

This one fascinates me partly because it came out of left field-- I have zero memory of watching it, yet it's a great mystery.
The dude's wife was gorgeous, he had fame when he was young, he was brilliant, yet... he wanted to kill himself because the company was in ruins..?

I just feel like there is more to this case than just "he was falling on hard financial times."

If someone has severe depression (or other mental illness) it doesn't have to make sense or have a clear reason. He was obviously stressed, and if he was severely fatigued as his family says, that could have put him over the edge if he was already mentally ill. The call indicates that he had probably hit the mental wall.

I thought the case was really cool when I first saw it, but now I believe it was just the suicide of a man who was once famous. I feel bad that his family had to go through all of this, especially not knowing for so long.

If someone has severe depression (or other mental illness) it doesn't have to make sense or have a clear reason. He was obviously stressed, and if he was severely fatigued as his family says, that could have put him over the edge if he was already mentally ill. The call indicates that he had probably hit the mental wall.

I thought the case was really cool when I first saw it, but now I believe it was just the suicide of a man who was once famous. I feel bad that his family had to go through all of this, especially not knowing for so long.

I agree with everything you've said here.

The previous question about a suicide by "blunt force trauma" seems pretty obvious to me. When a person is in an automobile accident (either a pure accident or one by their own doing) and succumbs to the injuries, I typically see it in the autopsy reports as "blunt force trauma" being the cause of death. It doesn't mean they were bludgeoned to death or anything...

When a person is in an automobile accident (either a pure accident or one by their own doing) and succumbs to the injuries, I typically see it in the autopsy reports as "blunt force trauma" being the cause of death. It doesn't mean they were bludgeoned to death or anything...

Right. We all know you're just saying that to protect Them, CRicci.

Illuminati confirmed.

I was about to ask if they could tell whether his death came from careening down a cliff or if he was assaulted. I'm sure a coroner could notice the difference.

This one fascinates me partly because it came out of left field-- I have zero memory of watching it, yet it's a great mystery.
The dude's wife was gorgeous, he had fame when he was young, he was brilliant, yet... he wanted to kill himself because the company was in ruins..?

I just feel like there is more to this case than just "he was falling on hard financial times."

You could say almost the exact same thing about Robin Williams. He seemed to have it all but in the end it meant nothing. Depression is a nasty, nasty thing and in this case there is no mystery. The only question in my mind was whether it was a suicide or was he becoming suicidal and accidently drove off that cliff in his mental state. The fact that he said his full legal name and then that he was going to kill himself leads me to believe that that is exactly what he did and did not want anyone to be accused of causing him harm.

Many intelligent people suffer from depression and suicidal thoughts. Let's just say it's hard not to be depressed when you are smart as you tend to overthink everything and get stuck in your own head. I know his father said that he would not commit suicide and people were after him but family members aren't exactly known for accepting the truth about reality. Besides, if he WAS indeed murdered or was in immediate danger why would he not have told the 911 operator that or better yet why would the 'men after him' even allow him to make a call that is recorded rather than quietly allow him to have an 'accident'? Suicide is the only theory that makes sense and it's consistent with everything we've learned.

I will admit there are legitimate conspiracies out there and maybe someone did cause him financial harm but it was like the time I was screwed over by a police officer. It was very hard not to think 'the police' in general were not out to get me especially given how it seemed they followed me everywhere. In reality, it's likely my drive home was similar to a routine patrol route. Again, this is the danger of being intelligent: sometimes your brain can go completely haywire. I've seen it had many times to smart people and sometimes wish I could lose a few IQ points.

You could say almost the exact same thing about Robin Williams.
I personally would never say such a thing about Robin because I saw him just a few months before he died.
I even said to someone hours afterward that he looked down. His reply: "Really? I saw him when I was waiting in a line at a bank in San Francisco in the early '90s. He was doing his hyper, happy act with us."
Nah. It was unsurprising to me personally.

I personally would never say such a thing about Robin because I saw him just a few months before he died.
I even said to someone hours afterward that he looked down. His reply: "Really? I saw him when I was waiting in a line at a bank in San Francisco in the early '90s. He was doing his hyper, happy act with us."
Nah. It was unsurprising to me personally.

I was more referring to his public persona and the idea that celebrities have nothing to be depressed about because they are generally rich beyond our wildest imaginations.

I am similar in that way in that it's easy to tell I have been chronically depressed for a long time if you knew me personally but passing me on the street I look like a very happy go lucky guy. If I were to somehow commit suicide it would be a complete shock to almost everyone around me and most people would simply not be able to believe it because I look so happy and upbeat all the time and would assume I must have met with foul play.

Obviously I am not in such a situation but hypothetically I would be the kind of person to leave a recorded 911 call to ensure valuable resources weren't wasted and then find the most secluded place imaginable. In other words, I can completely understand why he did it this way and there is no mystery whatsoever.