well i would have to say that i was pretty shocked when i found out that lucy wasn't at all like lucy ricardo,and also the whole desi and cesar thing which i dont know if it is true or not

Huh???

well i would have to say that i was pretty shocked when i found out that lucy wasn't at all like lucy ricardo,and also the whole desi and cesar thing which i dont know if it is true or not

I tend to believe it is true. I've read that interview and it was only a little piece of it. Cesar had no beef with him, or any reason (that I could tell) to make those comments other than that they were probably true. He said it was a one time only thing. Something also apparently happened between Desi and one of his Broadway "Too Many Girls" co-stars (can't remember his name). I think Desi liked to live on the edge.

As for shocking, perhaps the comment Vivian made to Lucy after she was dragged back to the set from her vacation because of Lucy's pregnancy.

As for shocking, perhaps the comment Vivian made to Lucy after she was dragged back to the set from her vacation because of Lucy's pregnancy.


what was the comment?:confused:

Desi and Cesar? What was that about?

Desi and Cesar? What was that about?

Go to the following link and scroll down to the interview with Cesar Romero at the bottom of the page. In one part of it, he talks about Desi.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:hOuRA-7X70sJ:www.1966batfan.com/gay.htm+%22Desi+Arnaz%22+%22Cesar+Romero%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=27&gl=us

Viv's comment to Lucy: Was it I'D TELL YOU TO GO **** YOURSELF BUT I SEE DESI'S ALREADY DONE THAT, LOL! I read that one, LOL! I believed the Cesar affair or rather one night stand right away, typical Desi, he'd done it all, seen it all, so why not? He was also quoted as saying when he had these orgies that he'd be in the same room with other guys but would not share his women with them, or rather he would not let another man join them which is what i meant to say. I have also heard the best one yet, but can't share it here or anywhere else, it would floor you all. BUT, these were Hollywood people, and like i've said a thousand times, everybody had sex with everybody back then. My favorite quote was from Bogart, who went to a Hollywood party and saw all the gorgeous faces and bodies and uttered NO WONDER THEY ALL **** EACH OTHER!

Viv's comment to Lucy: Was it I'D TELL YOU TO GO **** YOURSELF BUT I SEE DESI'S ALREADY DONE THAT, LOL! I read that one, LOL! I believed the Cesar affair or rather one night stand right away, typical Desi, he'd done it all, seen it all, so why not? He was also quoted as saying when he had these orgies that he'd be in the same room with other guys but would not share his women with them, or rather he would not let another man join them which is what i meant to say. I have also heard the best one yet, but can't share it here or anywhere else, it would floor you all. BUT, these were Hollywood people, and like i've said a thousand times, everybody had sex with everybody back then. My favorite quote was from Bogart, who went to a Hollywood party and saw all the gorgeous faces and bodies and uttered NO WONDER THEY ALL **** EACH OTHER!

Maybe you know this story better than I do, but it's about Desi's relationship with Betty Grable. Apparently they had an affair, I guess while he was married to Lucy? Early in their marriage? And later, Lucy and Betty became great friends. Lucy made a comment about what a "great gal" Betty was, and said something to the effect that, if she hated every woman in Hollywood that Desi had had an affair with, she wouldn't have any friends.

Maybe you know this story better than I do, but it's about Desi's relationship with Betty Grable. Apparently they had an affair, I guess while he was married to Lucy? Early in their marriage? And later, Lucy and Betty became great friends. Lucy made a comment about what a "great gal" Betty was, and said something to the effect that, if she hated every woman in Hollywood that Desi had had an affair with, she wouldn't have any friends.
Nope, mine involved a menage a trois but i will never name the participants.:lol: Remember the story about her inviting women to lunch and then telling all the women there that Sheilah MacRae was the only one there who had never slept with Desi? If they held a convention, they'd try for the Rose Bowl to accomodate al the ones he bedded, LOL!:lol:

Nope, mine involved a menage a trois but i will never name the participants.:lol: Remember the story about her inviting women to lunch and then telling all the women there that Sheilah MacRae was the only one there who had never slept with Desi? If they held a convention, they'd try for the Rose Bowl to accomodate al the ones he bedded, LOL!:lol:

I wasn't referring to the story you're talking about, but a comment Lucy made with regard to Betty Grable. I've never heard this other story about lunch with Sheila MacRae.

Nope, mine involved a menage a trois but i will never name the participants.:lol:

Vivian and.... (((wait for it)))... William! :rofl: puke:

Wow, just made myself sick thinking of that one!

I was shocked to find out that Lucy didn't accept her grandchild. I don't care about how "the times" were or whatever. You reject your biologicial grandchild, you're a dirtbag to me. Did Desi Sr. accept her?

I was shocked to find out that Lucy didn't accept her grandchild. I don't care about how "the times" were or whatever. You reject your biologicial grandchild, you're a dirtbag to me. Did Desi Sr. accept her?

According to Desi Jr., contrary to what the taboids reported, she DID accept Sean Astin (if that's who you're referring to) and would desguise herself and sneak over to visit with him. Ironically, it turned out years later (through DNA testing) that he wasn't actually Desi Jr's son. As for the first child (the girl), if that's who you're talking about, it appears neither Lucy nor Desi Sr. accepted the child as the mother raised her as a single mom. But please keep in mind, Desi Jr. was THE most famous child in the world at that time, the so-called "million dollar baby." In 1969, it would have been a HUGE scandal if it came out that he had fathered a child. It would have ended Lucy's career. Desi Jr. (and probably Lucie as well) might never have had a career. And it could have done a lot of emotional damage to Desi Jr., what with all the publicity that would have resulted, and given he was only 16 -- a child himself. Moreover, this child would have grown up in the spotlight, which perhaps would have been emotionally damaging to her. It's not only about the circumstances of the time, but the fact that these were people who were constantly in the public spotlight, which is something none of us can possibly relate to. They were the most famous family on the planet. If they had not been such public people, they would probably have responded very differently. But I suspect that, behind the scenes, Lucy must have been involved in this child's life, at least financially. Why else would this woman (the child's mother) have kept completely quiet all those years, until after Lucy died? From what I can tell, she was just a middle class woman. She had to have been given some incentive to keep quiet for all those years and be content to raise this girl alone. It's a different time now, thank goodness. The past is past. Everyone has now been accepted and fully embraced, and all parties have moved on and seem to love one another. At the end of the day, that's what really matters, no?

According to Desi Jr., contrary to what the taboids reported, she DID accept Sean Astin (if that's who you're referring to) and would desguise herself and sneak over to visit with him. Ironically, it turned out years later (through DNA testing) that he wasn't actually Desi Jr's son. As for the first child (the girl), if that's who you're talking about, it appears neither Lucy nor Desi Sr. accepted the child as the mother raised her as a single mom. But please keep in mind, Desi Jr. was THE most famous child in the world at that time, the so-called "million dollar baby." In 1969, it would have been a HUGE scandal if it came out that he had fathered a child. It would have ended Lucy's career. Desi Jr. (and probably Lucie as well) might never have had a career. And it could have done a lot of emotional damage to Desi Jr., what with all the publicity that would have resulted, and given he was only 16 -- a child himself. Moreover, this child would have grown up in the spotlight, which perhaps would have been emotionally damaging to her. It's not only about the circumstances of the time, but the fact that these were people who were constantly in the public spotlight, which is something none of us can possibly relate to. They were the most famous family on the planet. If they had not been such public people, they would probably have responded very differently. But I suspect that, behind the scenes, Lucy must have been involved in this child's life, at least financially. Why else would this woman (the child's mother) have kept completely quiet all those years, until after Lucy died? From what I can tell, she was just a middle class woman. She had to have been given some incentive to keep quiet for all those years and be content to raise this girl alone. It's a different time now, thank goodness. The past is past. Everyone has now been accepted and fully embraced, and all parties have moved on and seem to love one another. At the end of the day, that's what really matters, no? End her career? Surely you jest, and i'm sorry i called you Shirley. I always thought that was the reason Lucy's will was not made public, too many payouts to people to keep quiet, LOL! As for the MacRae story, you have to get out more, Lucy 's version appeared in many books and articles over the decades. Lucy gave her mom trouble with her lifestyle as a young kid, and she got it all back in spades with her two children, both slept around a LOT over the years. A rich celebrity has to make sure these claims are valid and there was no dna testing back then to prove anything. The Patty Duke incident alone, which was all bull, taught Lucy never to believe the claims of people out to feed at Lucy's cash cow. Or wanting publicity, Lucy used to blame Patty for two years of bad headlines making her look like the wicked witch of the west, while her own son took her side and said Lucy was great in the whole mess and handled everything well.

As for the first child (the girl), if that's who you're talking about, it appears neither Lucy nor Desi Sr. accepted the child as the mother raised her as a single mom. But please keep in mind, Desi Jr. was THE most famous child in the world at that time, the so-called "million dollar baby." In 1969, it would have been a HUGE scandal if it came out that he had fathered a child. It would have ended Lucy's career. Desi Jr. (and probably Lucie as well) might never have had a career. And it could have done a lot of emotional damage to Desi Jr., what with all the publicity that would have resulted, and given he was only 16 -- a child himself. Moreover, this child would have grown up in the spotlight, which perhaps would have been emotionally damaging to her. It's not only about the circumstances of the time, but the fact that these were people who were constantly in the public spotlight, which is something none of us can possibly relate to. They were the most famous family on the planet. If they had not been such public people, they would probably have responded very differently. But I suspect that, behind the scenes, Lucy must have been involved in this child's life, at least financially. Why else would this woman (the child's mother) have kept completely quiet all those years, until after Lucy died? From what I can tell, she was just a middle class woman. She had to have been given some incentive to keep quiet for all those years and be content to raise this girl alone. It's a different time now, thank goodness. The past is past. Everyone has now been accepted and fully embraced, and all parties have moved on and seem to love one another. At the end of the day, that's what really matters, no?
Desi Jr. and Lucie had careers? :lol: I think you're giving Desi Jr. too much importance regarding his place in the world. In 1969, he wasn't anybody in terms of importance. The famous baby deal was long over. Most famous family on the planet? To you or Lucy fans maybe. Ever hear of the Kennedys or The Rockefellers?

Had it come out, I really doubt that it would have affected what was left of Lucy's career. This was the 60s, free love and all that. It would have made a big media splash, but it would have died down. Even so, I can't think of a reason in the world to turn your back on your own flesh and blood. I think growing up in the spotlight would have been less damaging than a famous family sweeping you under the rug, over publicity. How heartbreaking for her. I read that only when Lucy died, did the family accept this poor girl. Disgraceful and cowardly. To have an entire family deny your existence, and write hush money checks. Sad to say that it seems as if this girl's life began when Lucy's life ended.

Desi Jr. and Lucie had careers? :lol: I think you're giving Desi Jr. too much importance regarding his place in the world.

Do a little research. Desi Jr. had a big career going for a few years in movies, which is the main reason he left his mother's show. As for Lucie, she's had a big career on Broadway and on the London stage. Back in 1980, I remember Rona Barrett predicting she would be one of the big movies stars of the '80s. That didn't pan out, but she has done quite well doing what she loves most: the stage.

In 1969, he wasn't anybody in terms of importance. The famous baby deal was long over. Most famous family on the planet? To you or Lucy fans maybe. Ever hear of the Kennedys or The Rockefellers?

You're taking my words way too literally. In the world of entertainment, they were surely the most famous. They were constantly in the tabloids back in those days. But given TV Guide's claim that Lucille Ball's face had been seen more often by more people than the face of any other human being who had ever lived, perhaps they were the most famous family on the planet. The Kennedys and Rockerfellers were well known in the United States, but perhaps less well known in the rest of the world. Yeah, everyone in the world knew of JFK, but they weren't necessarily following every aspect of Jackie O's life like people in the U.S.

Had it come out, I really doubt that it would have affected what was left of Lucy's career. This was the 60s, free love and all that.

And Lucy's fan base were more traditional than that. 15 years earlier, Ingrid Bergman's career had been ruined by an out-of-wedlock pregnancy. And beginning in 1968, Desi Jr. was ON his mother's show. Maybe you weren't around back in those days, but most of the public wasn't buying the '60s free love thing, at least not the part of the public that was regularly tuning into watch Lucille Ball and her family on TV.

It would have made a big media splash, but it would have died down.

Today yes, then no.

Even so, I can't think of a reason in the world to turn your back on your own flesh and blood.

You don't know that that is necessarily what happened. From what I understand, the mother was content to raise this girl alone. Perhaps SHE didn't want her exposed to THEM and risk being found out and having unwanted attention drawn to her daughter.


I think growing up in the spotlight would have been less damaging than a famous family sweeping you under the rug, over publicity How heartbreaking for her. I read that only when Lucy died, did the family accept this poor girl. Disgraceful and cowardly. To have an entire family deny your existence, and write hush money checks. Sad to say that it seems as if this girl's life began when Lucy's life ended.

I think you're doing a lot of judgmental speculation about something you know little about. I don't know that there was hush money. Good chance there was, but I don't know. I do know that the mother chose to raise the girl alone and quietly. She may have WANTED it that way. This is a personal family matter, and we do not know the circumstances. I do know this daughter is involved in their lives now and have never known her to harbor any hard feelings against anyone in the family, including Lucy. And I know they all love and accept one another. If she's content with the way things have turned out, then why should you care?

We don't know what went on back then, but I have seen society change drastically during my own life. I look at things in my own family. Back in 1979, my aunt and uncle came to down with their daugher, my cousin, and her (suddenly) new husband (who was English). It was an abrupt marriage. We didn't know about this guy, and all of a sudden they're married. And then shortly afterwards, they moved to England. A few months later, we got a card in the mail with a photo of the new baby they had just "adopted." Fast forward 15 years. My cousin came over from England to visit and brought this son I had never met. I went to pick them up at the airport. Seeing him for the first time, I was struck by how much he resembled my cousin, which amazed me given that he was adopted. In the car I commented to my cousin on her son's uncanny resemblence. Dead silence. That silence spoke volumes. At that moment, I realized that the boy we had thought all those years had been adopted really wasn't. And to this day, I've still never heard an acknowledgement that he's her biogical child, which is ridiculous.

Around 2000 -- a very different time -- another cousin got married to his pregnant bride. Everyone knew she was pregnant -- heck she was practically popping out of her wedding gown -- and no one cared. Two different eras, and two very different responses to an unexpected pregnancy within my own family. I can only imagine what the response would have been back in 1979 had our family been famous like the Arnazes. But again, the woman chose to raise this child alone. It was HER choice to do so. Given the circumstances of the time, and the position they were in, there were lots of things they had to consider and perhaps all parties agreed to what was best for everybody and how this child should be raised. Anyway, everybody is happy now. No one is bitter. They are one family. End of story.

Do a little research. Desi Jr. had a big career going for a few years in movies, which is the main reason he left his mother's show. As for Lucie, she's had a big career on Broadway and on the London stage. Back in 1980, I remember Rona Barrett predicting she would be one of the big movies stars of the '80s. That didn't pan out, but she has done quite well doing what she loves most: the stage.
My bad. They both lit the entertainment world on fire. However do they find the room for all those awards?
You're taking my words way too literally. In the world of entertainment, they were surely the most famous. They were constantly in the tabloids back in those days. But given TV Guide's claim that Lucille Ball's face had been seen more often by more people than the face of any other human being who had ever lived, perhaps they were the most famous family on the planet. The Kennedys and Rockerfellers were well known in the United States, but perhaps less well known in the rest of the world. Yeah, everyone in the world knew of JFK, but they weren't necessarily following every aspect of Jackie O's life like people in the U.S.
Lucy's family was more famous than the Kennedys? You're one hooked fan.
And Lucy's fan base were more traditional than that. 15 years earlier, Ingrid Bergman's career had been ruined by an out-of-wedlock pregnancy. And beginning in 1968, Desi Jr. was ON his mother's show. Maybe you weren't around back in those days, but most of the public wasn't buying the '60s free love thing, at least not the part of the public that was regularly tuning into watch Lucille Ball and her family on TV.
Lucy turned her back on her own flesh and blood, for fear of bad publicity. What, was Lucy almost 60 then, lol. At least Bergman didn't turn her back on her illegmimate kids. That was in 1951. She suffered a backlash, and went on to win an Oscar just a few years later.
Today yes, then no.
I don't agree. Why not embrace the baby after the show ended?
You don't know that that is necessarily what happened. From what I understand, the mother was content to raise this girl alone. Perhaps SHE didn't want her exposed to THEM and risk being found out and having unwanted attention drawn to her daughter.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out what happened, since that's when the girl was accepted, after Lucy's death. It has nothing to do with raising a child alone. I'm talking about being accepted by her family, which she was not.


I think you're doing a lot of judgmental speculation about something you know little about. I don't know that there was hush money. Good chance there was, but I don't know.
You posted on this very thread that you think Lucy paid the mother to keep her quiet. :crazy:
I do know that the mother chose to raise the girl alone and quietly. She may have WANTED it that way. This is a personal family matter, and we do not know the circumstances. I do know this daughter is involved in their lives now and have never known her to harbor any hard feelings against anyone in the family, including Lucy. And I know they all love and accept one another. If she's content with the way things have turned out, then why should you care?
That's rich, coming from you.

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=212922 (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=212922)

I also have just as much right to speculate or post my thoughts, so don't ask me why should I care. If I care, that's my business. All of a sudden, the Arnaz personal matters are off limits. Riiiight.



But again, the woman chose to raise this child alone. It was HER choice to do so
I doubt it.
Given the circumstances of the time, and the position they were in, there were lots of things they had to consider and perhaps all parties agreed to what was best for everybody and how this child should be raised.
Or, perhaps Lucy was afraid of bad publicity and shunned her own granddaughter, who coincidentally was brought into the family, after Lucy died.
Anyway, everybody is happy now. No one is bitter. They are one family.
You don't know that. That girl could hate her grandmother's guts for all you know. I know I would if I was robbed of my biological family.

I'm not sure why I'm bothering to respond to you at all because it's clear from your responses that you're not reading very carefully anything I wrote. Re: the Kennedy's, I didn't say the Arnazes were *necessarily* more famous then them, just that they might have been at that time, outside of this country. I was talking mainly about the entertainment world. As for the Arnaz kids and their awards, yeah, your bad indeed. Lucie has been nominated for a Golden Globe and a couple Emmys. She has also WON an Emmy, as well as the Los Angeles Drama Critic's Circle Award, the Theatre World Award, an Outer Critic's Circle Award, among others. And Desi Jr. HAS won a Golden Globe award. How many awards have you won? As for whether Lucy paid hush money, you don't need to reference my previous comments. I know what I said before. And what I'm saying now doesn't contradict any of it. I have speculated that might have happened and personally believe there is a good possibility. But I do NOT know that to be the case because I have no proof. She might have paid her money to keep quiet, or and never required her to keep quiet. She might have never paid her anything. As for why she wasn't involved in the baby's life, all you can do is guess the reasons because you don't know anything for sure and neither do I. You haven't lived in their home and have no clue what issues they were dealing with, what decisions were made or why. But the mother DID chose to raise the child alone because I have the interview where she said that. So once her daughter reached adulthood, she decided she wanted to know her father and be part of his family. Now she is. And HER daughter -- Desi Jr.'s granddaughter -- is VERY close to him and to the whole family. I do know this for a fact. Whether there is any bitterness towards Lucille Ball or Desi Arnaz (or "hating her grandmother's guts" as you say), I haven't ever seen any or heard any expressed, and neither have YOU. So why must you assume there is when there's no evidence of it AT ALL? Or do you just want a flame war?

I'm not sure why I'm bothering to respond to you at all because it's clear from your responses that you're not reading very carefully anything I wrote. Re: the Kennedy's, I didn't say the Arnazes were *necessarily* more famous then them, just that they might have been at that time, outside of this country. I was talking mainly about the entertainment world. As for the Arnaz kids and their awards, yeah, your bad indeed. Lucie has been nominated for a Golden Globe and a couple Emmys. She has also WON an Emmy, as well as the Los Angeles Drama Critic's Circle Award, the Theatre World Award, an Outer Critic's Circle Award, among others. And Desi Jr. HAS won a Golden Globe award. How many awards have you won? As for whether Lucy paid hush money, you don't need to reference my previous comments. I know what I said before. And what I'm saying now doesn't contradict any of it. I have speculated that might have happened and personally believe there is a good possibility. But I do NOT know that to be the case because I have no proof. She might have paid her money to keep quiet, or and never required her to keep quiet. She might have never paid her anything. As for why she wasn't involved in the baby's life, all you can do is guess the reasons because you don't know anything for sure and neither do I. You haven't lived in their home and have no clue what issues they were dealing with, what decisions were made or why. But the mother DID chose to raise the child alone because I have the interview where she said that. So once her daughter reached adulthood, she decided she wanted to know her father and be part of his family. Now she is. And HER daughter -- Desi Jr.'s granddaughter -- is VERY close to him and to the whole family. I do know this for a fact. Whether there is any bitterness towards Lucille Ball or Desi Arnaz (or "hating her grandmother's guts" as you say), I haven't ever seen any or heard any expressed, and neither have YOU. So why must you assume there is when there's no evidence of it AT ALL? Or do you just want a flame war?
You got me, I want a flame war. I'm discussing something. How many awards have I won? Good one, but we're not discussing my career. I don't think the Arnaz kids were successful, not from what I've seen. I don't follow theater. I looked at their modest resumes on imdb. No matter how you slice it, the Kennedys were the most famous family throughout the 60s. Jackie O, even more so after her husband was killed. The Sinatra family was huge in the 60s as well.
What year did Lucy die, and when was the girl brought into the family? I should just read the thread where you laid out your theory, or better yet, your earlier post on this thread. Looks to me as if it took Lucy dying for the young lady to gain acceptance. I don't know for sure, that's right. You should stop spreading those nasty rumors on here, or people like me might believe you. Kidding with you there, as anyone is free to post their thoughts and speculation pm any topic. Members don't answer to other members here.
Lucy was not involved in her illegitimate granddaughter's life. For whatever reason. Shame on her. Shame on the whole lot of them, if the reason was for fear of bad publicity, which by the way, has been the theory you've been floating for some time now. I guess only you can state it. IF that's the case, that a child was robbed of her birthright, just disgusting.
Desi Jr. had parental rights. He could have fought to see his daughter, if the girl's mother was trying to keep him away. With their dough, it was a slam dunk. I doubt that's the case anyway. As if any mother would want her child not to be acknowledged by her famous family. As you've suggested, she was most likely bought off, which includes not trashing the one who's writing the hush money checks, and even saying it was "for the best". Now, who wants to buy some nice oceanfront property in Arizona. :D

Where was the interview? Was she on TV? And was it the daughter or the mother? And what is with the picture of the neice on the website? I'm all confused.

You got me, I want a flame war.

Obviously.

I'm discussing something. How many awards have I won? Good one, but we're not discussing my career.

I'm sure there would be nothing to discuss.

I don't think the Arnaz kids were successful, not from what I've seen.

You haven't been looking. The fact is, they're very wealthy and could have chosen to spend their lives partying like Paris Hilton. But they wanted to make use of their lives, instead. Have they come anywhere close to their parents? Not really. But few have.

I don't follow theater.

Obviously.

I looked at their modest resumes on imdb. No matter how you slice it, the Kennedys were the most famous family throughout the 60s. Jackie O, even more so after her husband was killed. The Sinatra family was huge in the 60s as well.

First of all, her career is primarily in the theatre. HINT: IMDB DOES NOT COVER THE THEATRE! Second, I see again you have reading comprehension problems, or just like talking in circles. I'm not repeating yet again my statements about Kennedys versus Arnazes. As for the rest of your comments, you're similarly going in circles, rehashing the same innuendo as your previous posts. Not worth getting into again and continuing this circular argument. Besides, it's clear to me now you came here start something. And I was an idiot and took the bait. My fault there for assuming you genuinely wanted an intelligent discussion. Now I'm outta here.

Wasn't Desi Jr. a Teen heartthrob? Or was that just played up on the Brady Bunch?
That Cesar and Desi thing? I don't know. Is that for real?

I can't believe knowing the reputation that Desi had and the fact that he was married, that so many women would sleep with him. Regardless of who he was(or any celeb for that matter) I wouldn't do that knowing I was just one among many women he screwed and especially that fact he was married.

Wasn't Desi Jr. a Teen heartthrob? Or was that just played up on the Brady Bunch?
That Cesar and Desi thing? I don't know. Is that for real?

I can't believe knowing the reputation that Desi had and the fact that he was married, that so many women would sleep with him. Regardless of who he was(or any celeb for that matter) I wouldn't do that knowing I was just one among many women he screwed and especially that fact he was married.

Yeah, I think there was something to the teen heartthrob thing, other than The Brady Bunch. Remember, he was getting some attention in that rock band first. Then started getting a lot of attention in movies while still appearing on his mother's show. And the whole Liza Minelli and Patty Duke period got him lots of attention and intersest. I wouldn't say he was quite in David Cassidy's league, at least I don't think it endured as long. But he was a good looking guy and was a hot item for awhile.

Cesar and Desi? I don't know what incentive Cesar would have had to say that. He was an elderly man at the time, long retired. As for why women would go after him, power. There are a lot of women attracted to power and celebrity. They don't care if the guys married or not, or how much he gets around. As any rock star groupie.

Obviously.
I'm sure there would be nothing to discuss.

You haven't been looking. The fact is, they're very wealthy and could have chosen to spend their lives partying like Paris Hilton. But they wanted to make use of their lives, instead. Have they come anywhere close to their parents? Not really. But few have.

Obviously.

First of all, her career is primarily in the theatre. HINT: IMDB DOES NOT COVER THE THEATRE! Second, I see again you have reading comprehension problems, or just like talking in circles. I'm not repeating yet again my statements about Kennedys versus Arnazes. As for the rest of your comments, you're similarly going in circles, rehashing the same innuendo as your previous posts. Not worth getting into again and continuing this circular argument. Besides, it's clear to me now you came here start something. And I was an idiot and took the bait. My fault there for assuming you genuinely wanted an intelligent discussion. Now I'm outta here.
I stated everything you've stated, regarding Desi Jr. and the family rejecting his child, yet you insult me. Getting a little personal there. First sign of desperation.

Fact, Lucy was a lousy mother who let her kids run wild when they were young teens. Fact, Lucy was a worse grandmother to Julia. Wait, she SHE WASN'T EVEN A GRANDMOTHER to the poor little girl. I'll bet rejecting your own flesh and blood is a sin, so your idol probably didn't get to go UP on that big elevator in the sky. peace:

Fact, her kids never made it big, semi-big, sort of big, or any kind of big. Every time I saw an interview, they were still riding their parent's coattails. Desi Jr. His own daughter had to sue him to get him to acknowldedge her. Think $$$ had anything to do with that? I know you're busy with your, 'Lucy and Desi aren't really their parents!' conspircacy theory, lol.

I've been going to the theater for years. Funny, never saw Lucie in any plays, and I live in Boston with a FANTASTIC theater district. I'm not into local plays, so maybe that's the problem.

No comprehension problems on my end. I responded to a thread, with an intelligent reply that I was shocked that Lucy rejected her own blood. You got all buggy. I guess only you can express your opinion here, even when it's the same opinion. Now dry your tears. Your idol was a creep, if she rejected her grandchild, as you've been saying all along.

:crybaby:

Go to the following link and scroll down to the interview with Cesar Romero at the bottom of the page. In one part of it, he talks about Desi.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:hOuRA-7X70sJ:www.1966batfan.com/gay.htm+%22Desi+Arnaz%22+%22Cesar+Romero%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=27&gl=us
I question the authenticity of the arcticle and writer. Why is this coming out after people are dead and not here to defend themselves, it's sickening imo.

Desi jr's career started at a very young age, a rock band and hits at twelve? He later starred in movies and then, when the drug use played into it, landed in TV movies, three years on his mom's show made him a household name and a teen hearthrob, he did guest shots on tv shows and eventually got his act together and came back in a few roles, i think he even retried the rock band act recently. Lucie went to Broadway and at least ONE show in London, a few roles in movies, opened the Oscars one time with a musical number, she does cabaret today, i always thought her winning the one major award, an Emmy for Lucy Desi the home movies was ironic, a movie filmed by her parents, about her parents and financed with the money mom left. BUT, i think both are great looking and have talent, got their start because of mom's help and can retire now because of the money she left, the income keeps coming in from the fact that they own their parent's images. Desi jr has proven he can act, i never forgot a role he did on a Night Gallery one time, and Lucie can sing and dance, i see her on a talk show like the View, she's very opinionated, like her mom, and like her also is never boring. I just have issues with her because of some of the things she's said about mom over the decades. Whereas her dad was such a Saint. In her mind at least.

Lots of TV movies for Jr. and a role on his Mom's show. Teamed up with another actor's son for a band, and have a couple of hits. Some talent, combined with strings pulled. I see he hasn't made a movie for 15 years. If he was that talented, he would have been a star on the big screen. Being a celeb's kid can only open doors, not automatically make you a bonafide star. I've seen it many times over the years, where a kid with a famous parent has a brief or sporadic career. Someone like Michael Douglas, now there's an example of having a famous parent, but real talent put him on top.

I listened to one of the youtubes on Lucie. Her voice sounds weak to me, not strong. She's no Streisand. I don't begrudge anyone whose parent's fame opened doors for them. Even with very famous parents though, Lucie and Desi Jr. seem to have had short-lived or mediocre careers. Surprising for Jr., as he had movie star looks. I don't think they're anywhere nearly as talented as their parents were. If their last name was Smith, they most likely would have gotten nowhere, but who knows. You gotta love that silver spoon.

Can't argue with you on that one, i think Desi jr lost it all because of the drugs, and alcohol. He could have gone lots further. And his looks are gone, like all good looking people, or should i say MOST of them, they lose their oomph and it all ends. He seems very grounded and nice though. And Lucie, she's beautiful, sings well and is fun to talk to, i wish she'd do a talk show or something and get a new career. You're right, neither will ever achieve anything close to what their parents did, then again, who could? Hey, helping her kids was great, it's when you get your putz son elected President that it becomes a national tragedy.

Hey, helping her kids was great, it's when you get your putz son elected President that it becomes a national tragedy.
True, Joe Sr., pulled mega strings to get JFK elected. :D

Comparing JFK to Putz bushie is like comparing Lucille Ball to Charo. But i LOVED your comeback though! LOL!

True, Joe Sr., pulled mega strings to get JFK elected. :D
As did Sinatra and "friends" :lol:

Well, you'e from F L O R I D A so i guess you'd know all about fraud in elections, LOL!

Well, you'e from F L O R I D A so i guess you'd know all about fraud in elections, LOL!
Never went along with that but either way.. I'm a Republican so I was happy. :lol:

Comparing JFK to Putz bushie is like comparing Lucille Ball to Charo. But i LOVED your comeback though! LOL!
Now that's like comparing the stunning, breathtaking beauty of Elizabeth Taylor to Lucy, who was pretty. :lol:

Never went along with that but either way.. I'm a Republican so I was happy. :lol:
Ignore that foolishness. Just more whining from the sour grapes crowd. :lol:

http://www.sallyminker.com/art/2-d/images/grapes-print.jpg

And Lucie, she's beautiful, sings well and is fun to talk to, i wish she'd do a talk show or something and get a new career.
I never thought Lucie was beautiful. She's attractive, but I think her looks are hard, like she'd make a handsome man. Kind of like Maria Shriver. While her mother had soft, feminine looks, Lucie doesn't, in my opinion anyway. Her eyes are sort of scary. Looks like she's being stuck with a cattle prod.

Recent pictures show that she's aging very well. I don't think Lucy aged well at all. I remember a few years before her death, seeing Lucy on Letterman or Carson, can't remember. My husband and I were shocked. She looked so old. I remember wondering if she was sick. She was only in her 70s, but she looked like an ill 90. I felt bad for her.

As for Lucie's talent. I'll have to take the word of those who say so, but I've never seen her in anything. She never achieved superstardom. Something tells me she wasn't going for that anyway. Sounds to me like she puts her family first.

Ignore that foolishness. Just more whining from the sour grapes crowd. :lol:

http://www.sallyminker.com/art/2-d/images/grapes-print.jpg
Loveee it! :brent

I never thought Lucie was beautiful. She's attractive, but I think her looks are hard, like she'd make a handsome man. Kind of like Maria Shriver. While her mother had soft, feminine looks, Lucie doesn't, in my opinion anyway. Her eyes are sort of scary. Looks like she's being stuck with a cattle prod.

Recent pictures show that she's aging very well. I don't think Lucy aged well at all. I remember a few years before her death, seeing Lucy on Letterman or Carson, can't remember. My husband and I were shocked. She looked so old. I remember wondering if she was sick. She was only in her 70s, but she looked like an ill 90. I felt bad for her.

As for Lucie's talent. I'll have to take the word of those who say so, but I've never seen her in anything. She never achieved superstardom. Something tells me she wasn't going for that anyway. Sounds to me like she puts her family first.
Ohhh you are so right abt Lucy not aging well. In my eyes, as soon as she cut her hair in the Lucy-Desi comedy hour, that made her look older. Not appealing to me at all.

Secondly, her smoking habit took its toll on her face. Just like Bette Davis. Also, her hair color. Sure it looked great as a young woman, but as she got older, it didn't seem to go well with her aging look and her pale skin. I remember when Elizabeth Taylor went blonde or at least partially blonde, I was aghast. :eek: Some women have to realize that their haircolor can't continue into their older years. She needed to tone it down. Her red lipstick made it more obvious. Of course she may have just been comfortable with her look, as most women are. They get stuck in a niche regarding their looks. And of course for Lucy, her red hair was famous. ;) We had a discussion here abt her voice and how her vocal chords changed as well. Very hoarse. Of course, smoking did its damage and other things.

I remember the first movie I seen with Lucie Arnaz. It starred Raul Julia and it was abt the Kitty Genovese murder. Her role was not that huge, but she was a great dramatic actress. I have seen her in other dramatic stuff. I prefer her dramatic skills over her funny stuff, which I thought was not that good. It seemed fake, or at least her earlier stuff seemed so to me, just my opinion.

Good God, don't bring up Maria Shriver's mom, have you seen HER lately? A map to wrinkle city, after an earthquake, a mud slide and a Tsunami looks better. Lucy was never on Letterman, it was carson and Joan Rivers was probably substituting, as Lucy's last three talk show appearances were with her fan Joan. On the first one, she looked very bad, plugging The All Star Party, the second one she looked better, she had just lost much weight due to the Stone Pillow filming, had been in hospital and everything, the third one she looked like her old self but she looked better than on Life tih Lucy or any other appearance from the '80s. I assume Joan's last show on Fox that she only had for a year or less had special filters on the camera lens because i could send you a copy, because Lucy looked sensational, at least thirty years younger.

Good God, don't bring up Maria Shriver's mom, have you seen HER lately? A map to wrinkle city, after an earthquake, a mud slide and a Tsunami looks better. Lucy was never on Letterman, it was carson and Joan Rivers was probably substituting, as Lucy's last three talk show appearances were with her fan Joan. On the first one, she looked very bad, plugging The All Star Party, the second one she looked better, she had just lost much weight due to the Stone Pillow filming, had been in hospital and everything, the third one she looked like her old self but she looked better than on Life tih Lucy or any other appearance from the '80s. I assume Joan's last show on Fox that she only had for a year or less had special filters on the camera lens because i could send you a copy, because Lucy looked sensational, at least thirty years younger.
I didn't bring up Shriver's Mom, but you're right. The Kennedy woman are aging terribly, including Maria. I don't know where I saw Lucy before her death, but it was the kind of old that wasn't reversible. I almost fell off the sofa, it was that bad. Is there a last known photo of Lucy available?

Ohhh you are so right abt Lucy not aging well. In my eyes, as soon as she cut her hair in the Lucy-Desi comedy hour, that made her look older. Not appealing to me at all.

Secondly, her smoking habit took its toll on her face. Just like Bette Davis.
Oh my God, Irene, Bette Davis looked like a corpse for years before she died. Smoking and drinking takes a toll on anyone's looks, but more so with women, although many a handsome man's looks have been destroyed. Think Jan-Michael Vincent, and Charlie Sheen to a degree. It seemed to me that Lucy looked great and youthful on ILL. Then, in the 60s, she looked much older. She still looked good, trim, and all that, but she lost her sexiness fast. That was her turn into her 50s, so it's to be expected. Stress takes a big toll also. I think of all the women though, who still look fabulous, like Sophia Loren, Susan Sarandon, Suzanne Somers, etc. I guess Lucy didn't believe in having plastic surgery? Nothing wrong with that, if that's the case. I'd think twice before going under the knife.

I never thought Lucie was beautiful. She's attractive, but I think her looks are hard, like she'd make a handsome man. Kind of like Maria Shriver. While her mother had soft, feminine looks, Lucie doesn't, in my opinion anyway. Her eyes are sort of scary. Looks like she's being stuck with a cattle prod.

Recent pictures show that she's aging very well. I don't think Lucy aged well at all. I remember a few years before her death, seeing Lucy on Letterman or Carson, can't remember. My husband and I were shocked. She looked so old. I remember wondering if she was sick. She was only in her 70s, but she looked like an ill 90. I felt bad for her.

As for Lucie's talent. I'll have to take the word of those who say so, but I've never seen her in anything. She never achieved superstardom. Something tells me she wasn't going for that anyway. Sounds to me like she puts her family first.
Oh i get it now, you said Maria Shriver and then referred to Lucy, i thought you meant Maria's mom, i read much too fast, sorry! Anybody have a picture of her, it might break the board though, just shocking. Her wrinkles have wrinkles.

I didn't bring up Shriver's Mom, but you're right. The Kennedy woman are aging terribly, including Maria. I don't know where I saw Lucy before her death, but it was the kind of old that wasn't reversible. I almost fell off the sofa, it was that bad. Is there a last known photo of Lucy available?
Yes, but it's mostly a month befofre she passed, at The Oscars and she looked heavy and yes, old, but like one of Hope's people once said to her, Lucy and Hope too had a way of melting the years away when they smiled broadly, they'd hear the applause and come out in front of the crowd and thirty years would melt away. I thought she always looked much older when she frowned, you can see it clearly in Life with Lucy.

This was taken 4 weeks before her death.
Still rockin' the blue eye shadow and hot red lips though :D
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee67/moderndaymonroe21/800px-LucilleBall.jpg

Her wrinkles have wrinkles.
:lol: Click at your own risk.

http://www.tmz.com/2007/10/22/whose-mother-in-law-is-this/

This was taken 4 weeks before her death.
Still rockin' the blue eye shadow and hot red lips though :D

Thanks for that. I guess I caught her at a real bad time. I remember she was soooo thin, so it was probably one of those appearances that SPLAIN mentioned. Still, at age 79, I don't think she aged well. My mother-in-law is 86 and could pass for 68. Everyone's different. Genes count for so much, plus how we treat ourselves regarding smoking, drinking, sunning, etc.

Oh my God, Irene, Bette Davis looked like a corpse for years before she died. Smoking and drinking takes a toll on anyone's looks, but more so with women, although many a handsome man's looks have been destroyed. Think Jan-Michael Vincent, and Charlie Sheen to a degree. It seemed to me that Lucy looked great and youthful on ILL. Then, in the 60s, she looked much older. She still looked good, trim, and all that, but she lost her sexiness fast. That was her turn into her 50s, so it's to be expected. Stress takes a big toll also. I think of all the women though, who still look fabulous, like Sophia Loren, Susan Sarandon, Suzanne Somers, etc. I guess Lucy didn't believe in having plastic surgery? Nothing wrong with that, if that's the case. I'd think twice before going under the knife. Not true, she looked fine in the sixties, but then again, lots of retouching on photos at that time. I only found out about all that when i was older. Lucy could not get plastic surgery because she did not heal properly, that's the line from her camp anyway. So she'd wear this LIFT contraption that took twenty or more years off of her, her hairdresser, the great Irma Kusely used to put it on her, a skull cap, pulling the hair, adhesive tape and like magic, she had her youthful looks back, but it hurt like hell to have it on and Lucy called her a frustrated Nazi for putting her through the agony, but thanking her just the same because of her extending her career by doing that. I think BEAUTIFUL people have it real hard with their looks, people want to remember them as young and beautiful. Some succeed, some clearly dun't. Robert redford has a pockmarked face, Paul Newman still has his Cary Grant looks and Cary looked great but retired early in any case. I agree about Jan Michael Vincent but not Charlie Sheen, he still looks good. Sophia yes, Brigitte Bardo, definitely NOT. The great Claudette Colbert still had it at 92, never changed, a classic beauty like Dina Merrill, who was on the board of directors of RKO's movie catalog after Lucy and Desi, could come out of a pool, soaking wet with hair all disheveled and still look like a million bucks, Marlene Dietrich and Joan Crawford hid in their apartments to avoid dissillusioning their fans, Lucy too to some extent did that. Lucy was once told by a kid LUCY, WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR FACE? She was careful from then on, they saw her all lit up beautifully on ILL by Karl and his magicians and then they'd see her outside and wonder, what happened? Bette Davis had daughter who savaged her in a book, a mastectomy and then cancer, yes, she looked a hundred times more horrible than Lucy ever did, and her mind and her sharp wit were gone also, she should have stayed home, but those old workhorses like Lucy, Davis and Hepburn only knew about hard work, they wanted to work till they dropped. Lucy said it many times.

Not true, she looked fine in the sixties
The thing about opinions, is that there isn't any "not true" about them. My opinion is that there was a world of difference in Lucy's appearance on ILL in the 50s, than in her shows in the 60s. You obviously disagree, but there's no right or wrong when it comes to opinions.

Now that's like comparing the stunning, breathtaking beauty of Elizabeth Taylor to Lucy, who was pretty. :lol:
Did you see a recent pic of Lizzie, the former tramp looks like she was run over by a tramp steamer and she is usually held up by two gents.

Did you see a recent pic of Lizzie, the former tramp looks like she was run over by a tramp steamer and she is usually held up by two gents.
She's very ill, which explains the help. I think she's in a wheelchair now. She didn't age well either, but back in the day, she was the fairest of them all, in my opinion.

:lol: Click at your own risk.

http://www.tmz.com/2007/10/22/whose-mother-in-law-is-this/
Oh my God, i may vomit! Thanks for proving my point, LOL! She's in her eighties but still . . . and that pic of Lucy at the Oscars, she's not smiling, look at the broadcast, she looks lots better, even schmolie gary looks old and bad in that pic and he was lots younger than Lucy. That's a horrible pic of her that night, she actually looked good on the show and every columnist said her appearance with Hope was the highlight of the show.

The thing about opinions, is that there isn't any "not true" about them. My opinion is that there was a world of difference in Lucy's appearance on ILL in the 50s, than in her shows in the 60s. You obviously disagree, but there's no right or wrong when it comes to opinions. Yes, you're WRONG, she looked great in the sixties, so put that in your pipe and smoke it, LOL! You're right, it was all done with smoke and mirrors but i had no idea at the time, i was a kid, who knew about camera lenses adn retouched photos? LOL! Nowadays they take off weight or retouch magazine covers so much that you have to check the name to see who it is, it never looks like them at all.

She's very ill, which explains the help. I think she's in a wheelchair now. She didn't age well either, but back in the day, she was the fairest of them all, in my opinion.
Yup, the LAST movie star, but she went through a FAT period too, and she's always been sick, so she is a perfect example of what i meant by beautiful people and how they usually age very badly and we want them teh way they looked like, when they were at their best.

Not true, she looked fine in the sixties, but then again, lots of retouching on photos at that time. I only found out about all that when i was older. Lucy could not get plastic surgery because she did not heal properly, that's the line from her camp anyway. So she'd wear this LIFT contraption that took twenty or more years off of her, her hairdresser, the great Irma Kusely used to put it on her, a skull cap, pulling the hair, adhesive tape and like magic, she had her youthful looks back, but it hurt like hell to have it on and Lucy called her a frustrated Nazi for putting her through the agony, but thanking her just the same because of her extending her career by doing that. I think BEAUTIFUL people have it real hard with their looks, people want to remember them as young and beautiful. Some succeed, some clearly dun't. Robert redford has a pockmarked face, Paul Newman still has his Cary Grant looks and Cary looked great but retired early in any case. I agree about Jan Michael Vincent but not Charlie Sheen, he still looks good. Sophia yes, Brigitte Bardo, definitely NOT. The great Claudette Colbert still had it at 92, never changed, a classic beauty like Dina Merrill, who was on the board of directors of RKO's movie catalog after Lucy and Desi, could come out of a pool, soaking wet with hair all disheveled and still look like a million bucks, Marlene Dietrich and Joan Crawford hid in their apartments to avoid dissillusioning their fans, Lucy too to some extent did that. Lucy was once told by a kid LUCY, WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR FACE? She was careful from then on, they saw her all lit up beautifully on ILL by Karl and his magicians and then they'd see her outside and wonder, what happened? Bette Davis had daughter who savaged her in a book, a mastectomy and then cancer, yes, she looked a hundred times more horrible than Lucy ever did, and her mind and her sharp wit were gone also, she should have stayed home, but those old workhorses like Lucy, Davis and Hepburn only knew about hard work, they wanted to work till they dropped. Lucy said it many times.
I've heard about that contraption that Lucy used to wear. Although it helped her when she wore it, I don't think it helps to stretch the skin like that, as it can lose what elasticity and firmless it has left.
Charlie Sheen did regain most of his looks back. Still, had he not abused himself, I think he'd look better. He's only in his early 40s. There was a time, when he looked so bad, that I thought the damage would be permanent, but he did recover, for the most part.
Robert Redford, the poster boy for too much sun. No clue on Bardo's story, but that's a real shame. She was a beauty. I'm guessing sun damage there too.
How did Desi age? Years ago, I watched that show that Lucie put together, and I remember home footage of him in a swimming pool. If memory serves, he looked distinguished.
There's the saying that we get the face that we earn, but that's not always the case. My grandmother smoked and drank like a fish her entire life. She died at age 79, in 1988, and looked like a million bucks.

Yes, you're WRONG, she looked great in the sixties, so put that in your pipe and smoke it, LOL! You're right, it was all done with smoke and mirrors but i had no idea at the time
:lol: If you read my original post, I stated that Lucy looked good, trim and fit; however, in my opinion, she changed a great deal from the decade before, her ILL days. I don't look like I did 10 years ago, but there's not that much of a difference. Everyone's different. Sometimes I wonder if color tv had anything to do with actors looking older....shows more flaws or something. There's a real good chance that I have no idea what I'm talking about here, lol.

How did Desi age? Years ago, I watched that show that Lucie put together, and I remember home footage of him in a swimming pool. If memory serves, he looked distinguished.


He looks better in some pics than others, but overall I'd say that both he and Lucy didn't age well at all...


http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/5955/lucyqq4.png

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/3089/desitl2.png

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7060/desiqd7.png

http://www.officiallizaminnelli.com/gallery/pictures/1020.jpg

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/6489/571b4us.jpg

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/ebay4scott/lucille_dezi.jpg

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5199/graficalucy0wv.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/DizzyArnizzy/Lucy/AMAZINGLUCIEPIC1.jpg

Yup, the LAST movie star, but she went through a FAT period too, and she's always been sick, so she is a perfect example of what i meant by beautiful people and how they usually age very badly and we want them teh way they looked like, when they were at their best.
This has probably been posted already, but here goes anyway. Lucie looks good, and she's about 21 years older than Liz here, in 1971. I wonder if Liz ever hooked up with Desi? lol.

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Mptv/1391/17994_0008.jpg (http://imdb.com/gallery/mptv/1391/19993_0005.jpg.html?seq=2)

Oh my God, Irene, Bette Davis looked like a corpse for years before she died. Smoking and drinking takes a toll on anyone's looks, but more so with women, although many a handsome man's looks have been destroyed.
She had a stroke before she died which didn't help either.

I've heard about that contraption that Lucy used to wear. Although it helped her when she wore it, I don't think it helps to stretch the skin like that, as it can lose what elasticity and firmless it has left.
Charlie Sheen did regain most of his looks back. Still, had he not abused himself, I think he'd look better. He's only in his early 40s. There was a time, when he looked so bad, that I thought the damage would be permanent, but he did recover, for the most part.
Robert Redford, the poster boy for too much sun. No clue on Bardo's story, but that's a real shame. She was a beauty. I'm guessing sun damage there too.
How did Desi age? Years ago, I watched that show that Lucie put together, and I remember home footage of him in a swimming pool. If memory serves, he looked distinguished.
There's the saying that we get the face that we earn, but that's not always the case. My grandmother smoked and drank like a fish her entire life. She died at age 79, in 1988, and looked like a million bucks. True, in some instances if you put an I Love Lucy show on one set and put it next to a Lucy show on the other, it looks like two different women. But check out the header at The Lucy Lounge, it shows her in the sixties, and she looks incredible. She got that sophisticated makeover that befitted a studio head. And that's my all time favorite period of her, for her looks, so that's why i reacted to the comment, LOL!

Splain, I remember when I was little and found out that the lady in ILL was the same one from Here's Lucy. I couldn't believe it. :lol:

She did look good in the 60's though, didn't she? I think she looked really good in that Bob Hope special where she played the DA.

And Janice, I never thought about it, but you're right, I'm sure wearing that contraption and stretching her skin probably did do a lot of damage.

Since this is the thread for shocking revelations, I guess I'll inquire here. It's common knowledge that Desi cheated on Lucy. Has it ever been revealed that Lucy cheated on Desi? Not that I'd blame her. Not really, two wrongs don't make a right, to me anyway. If this has been discussed already, I'd appreciate if someone would be so kind to point me in the right direction. :)

Another thing, throughout the 50s, Lucy and Desi were together just about all the time. When did Desi find the time for all of his philandering?

Since this is the thread for shocking revelations, I guess I'll inquire here. It's common knowledge that Desi cheated on Lucy. Has it ever been revealed that Lucy cheated on Desi? Not that I'd blame her. Not really, two wrongs don't make a right, to me anyway. If this has been discussed already, I'd appreciate if someone would be so kind to point me in the right direction. :)

As Desi describes in his autobiography, the night that he asked her for a divorce she came at him with a prop "gun" (that was actually a lighter), calling him every name in the book and saying that she had enough dirt on him to hang him and would take him for everything he had. In turn, he took out a piece of paper with a man's name and address on it (a NY address), showed it to her, and said "Don't ever threaten me again." Her face turned bright red and she immediately backed down. In another book, one of Desi's friends recounts being with him on a boat to Europe when Desi got an important ship-to-shore call, presumably from a private investigator. When Desi came back, he was upset and kind of misty-eyed. This would explain where Desi got the man's name and address from. And Lucy was making a lot of trips to NYC around this time. So yeah, it looks like Lucy did cheat on Desi towards the end of their marriage, if not before.

Another thing, throughout the 50s, Lucy and Desi were together just about all the time. When did Desi find the time for all of his philandering?

They may have been together on the ILL set, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they were together when they weren't at work. In fact, in interviews after the divorce she said that the last five years of their marriage were hell, and he was never home. Years later, Desi claimed that he wasn't messing around as much as they said he was -- that much of the time he really was working long hours at the office, and she jumped to conclusions a lot of the time. But he was very known to work hard and play hard -- and for him, playing hard meant alcohol and prostitutes. One of the ILL writers once said that Desi would say, "What's her problem? I love her. I'm not going around with other women, just hookers." He didn't understand why she was so bothered by it.

Can't argue with you on that one, i think Desi jr lost it all because of the drugs, and alcohol. He could have gone lots further. And his looks are gone, like all good looking people, or should i say MOST of them, they lose their oomph and it all ends. He seems very grounded and nice though. And Lucie, she's beautiful, sings well and is fun to talk to, i wish she'd do a talk show or something and get a new career. You're right, neither will ever achieve anything close to what their parents did, then again, who could? Hey, helping her kids was great, it's when you get your putz son elected President that it becomes a national tragedy.

I've noticed most of your comments always have a political spin. This is not a political message board. And besides, you're from Canada for Pete's sake -- your opinion about the U.S. doesn't count.

But he was very known to work hard and play hard -- and for him, playing hard meant alcohol and prostitutes. One of the ILL writers once said that Desi would say, "What's her problem? I love her. I'm not going around with other women, just hookers." He didn't understand why she was so bothered by it.
I know that quote very well. I remember the first time I read that I was taken aback. But over time I realize that Desi treated Lucy as a lady, whereas, the females he spent time with, he never considered "ladies". They were what they were and he would not give them the time of day other than a roll in the hay. I am not defending his actions, I abhor what he did to Lucy, but his mentality was as long as he wasn't being seen with females who were on the same level as Lucy, what was the problem? I am disgusted that a man who did so much for television would not have the intelligience to know better.

Oh my God, Irene, Bette Davis looked like a corpse for years before she died. Smoking and drinking takes a toll on anyone's looks, but more so with women, although many a handsome man's looks have been destroyed. Think Jan-Michael Vincent, and Charlie Sheen to a degree. It seemed to me that Lucy looked great and youthful on ILL. Then, in the 60s, she looked much older. She still looked good, trim, and all that, but she lost her sexiness fast. That was her turn into her 50s, so it's to be expected. Stress takes a big toll also. I think of all the women though, who still look fabulous, like Sophia Loren, Susan Sarandon, Suzanne Somers, etc. I guess Lucy didn't believe in having plastic surgery? Nothing wrong with that, if that's the case. I'd think twice before going under the knife.
I hear that. The stresses of life, smoking and drinking on top of that really age women horribly. I am so glad I don't drink or smoke. I better work on the stress though. :lol: I do my best to avoid the sun on my face and so forth. I don't want to get any wrinkles. So far so good. ;) OMG and you are right abt Bette Davis. Had Lucy lived longer, she may have ended up looking like that. EEEEEEK :eek:
And the men above that you mentioned also show the effects of drugs and alcohol.

Sophia Loren is gorgeous. I don't think she has had any plastic surgery. Tina Turner is another beauty who aged very well. Remember though, these are two ladies who take care of themselves and know what is best for their health and overall beauty.

:lol: Click at your own risk.

http://www.tmz.com/2007/10/22/whose-mother-in-law-is-this/



HOLY SMOKES!!! Her skin looks like a roadmap of the U.S. and her teeth look like the grill on a 1962 Buick!!! :eek: :lol:

Can't argue with you on that one, i think Desi jr lost it all because of the drugs, and alcohol. He could have gone lots further. And his looks are gone, like all good looking people, or should i say MOST of them, they lose their oomph and it all ends. He seems very grounded and nice though. And Lucie, she's beautiful, sings well and is fun to talk to, i wish she'd do a talk show or something and get a new career. You're right, neither will ever achieve anything close to what their parents did, then again, who could? Hey, helping her kids was great, it's when you get your putz son elected President that it becomes a national tragedy.

I like the idea of Lucy doing a talk show. And yes, Lucy & Desi Jr. were nowhere nears as talented as their parents, although when the progeny are, its a nice treat--like Natalie Cole for example. ...sign me having fun watching I Love Lucy in NYC USA.

I enjoy your many Lucy posts & BTW Montreal's a great city--I always enjoy my visits there.

I've noticed most of your comments always have a political spin. This is not a political message board. And besides, you're from Canada for Pete's sake -- your opinion about the U.S. doesn't count.
That's not correct. Everyone's opinion matters on this site, regardless of where they reside. You are correct, however, in respect to the political posts. It is against the rules to discuss politics on the show boards, as TJ has designated a Politic's board for such discussion.

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=419

HOLY SMOKES!!! Her skin looks like a roadmap of the U.S. and her teeth look like the grill on a 1962 Buick!!! :eek: :lol:
:brent


And it looks like Maria will follow in her footsteps. :eek:

As Desi describes in his autobiography, the night that he asked her for a divorce she came at him with a prop "gun" (that was actually a lighter), calling him every name in the book and saying that she had enough dirt on him to hang him and would take him for everything he had. In turn, he took out a piece of paper with a man's name and address on it (a NY address), showed it to her, and said "Don't ever threaten me again." Her face turned bright red and she immediately backed down. In another book, one of Desi's friends recounts being with him on a boat to Europe when Desi got an important ship-to-shore call, presumably from a private investigator. When Desi came back, he was upset and kind of misty-eyed. This would explain where Desi got the man's name and address from. And Lucy was making a lot of trips to NYC around this time. So yeah, it looks like Lucy did cheat on Desi towards the end of their marriage, if not before.



They may have been together on the ILL set, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they were together when they weren't at work. In fact, in interviews after the divorce she said that the last five years of their marriage were hell, and he was never home. Years later, Desi claimed that he wasn't messing around as much as they said he was -- that much of the time he really was working long hours at the office, and she jumped to conclusions a lot of the time. But he was very known to work hard and play hard -- and for him, playing hard meant alcohol and prostitutes. One of the ILL writers once said that Desi would say, "What's her problem? I love her. I'm not going around with other women, just hookers." He didn't understand why she was so bothered by it.
Thank you for the interesting information. I didn't know that Desi asked for the divorce. That had to hurt Lucy, a lot. I see he liked his hookers, so I'm guessing there were no emotional affairs involved, on his end anyway.

I see Desi had a long marriage after Lucy. I wonder if he was a better husband to his second wife, and how she got along with Lucy and the kids.

Thank you for the interesting information. I didn't know that Desi asked for the divorce. That had to hurt Lucy, a lot.

It did hurt her, but at the same time I think she needed that push because she couldn't bring herself to ask him for the divorce. And although he first initiated the breakup, friends have said that the two were close to reconciling around the beginning of 1961 while she was doing Wildcat in NYC. Apparently he proposed to her, she pondered it for awhile, and ultimately decided against it.


I see Desi had a long marriage after Lucy. I wonder if he was a better husband to his second wife, and how she got along with Lucy and the kids.

Unfortunately, it's been reported that he didn't kick his old habits when he married Edie.

I’ve heard Lucie refer to Edie as having been one of her dearest friends, so it looks like she got along with Desi’s kids ok. Lucy and Desi had been friendly with Edie before they even got divorced (they were neighbors in Del Mar), but I’m not sure how friendly Lucy and Edie were after Desi married Edie. When they wed in Vegas, Lucy sent the couple a large horseshoe flower arrangement that said “You both picked a winner” since D&E were both big horseracing fans. So there may have been friendliness there.

But then again, a friend said that Edie was a very unhappy woman because she knew that Lucy was first in Desi’s heart and she was second. And Desi and Lucy remained very close, talking on the phone all the time. So I suspect that Lucy and Edie weren’t exactly best friends.

I like the idea of Lucy doing a talk show. And yes, Lucy & Desi Jr. were nowhere nears as talented as their parents, although when the progeny are, its a nice treat--like Natalie Cole for example. ...sign me having fun watching I Love Lucy in NYC USA.

I enjoy your many Lucy posts & BTW Montreal's a great city--I always enjoy my visits there.
Well, thanks a lot for that, especially after Ellie Mae's post, i keep forgetting that political jokes don't fly well in the South, political jokes there just get elected, LOL! Back to YOUR post now, yes, i was thinking the same thing about Judy Garland and her daughter Liza, Liza started off well and certainly won awards and proved her talent, she even eclipsed her mom at one point, but look at how she ended, almost exactly like her, booze drugs heavy set and troubles galore.

That's not correct. Everyone's opinion matters on this site, regardless of where they reside. You are correct, however, in respect to the political posts. It is against the rules to discuss politics on the show boards, as TJ has designated a Politic's board for such discussion.

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=419
They're not political comments, they're jokes, you referred to Lucy helping her kids and i referred to the current Prez being helped by his family ties, most notably his dad. Lighten up people, we're not curing cancer, we're discussing an icon on a message board. So when someone can make a little comment here or there that does not go overboard i don't see anything wrong, oh wait, let me give it a Lucy type spin, i dun't mean to offend, i really dun't.:lol:

Lucy had affairs, but a few compared to hundreds for him, and i've always believed that what's good fo the goose is good for the gander. I'm sure the NY man was morton, and she could have done so much better, but he was very young and even he was rumored to have had affairs while married to Lucy, these are Hollywood people after all. Poor Edie, she was married to this multimillionaire and getting anything she wanted. Desi, always said to have been this great business man, took his money from the sale of Desilu to Lucy and lived off of it, instead of investing it and living off the profits, but he treated Edie the way he did Lucy. Always gave them everything. I remember one time when Lucy's jewellery was stolen, how he replaced every piece, she always said how generous he was. The last straw for Lucy was when Desi was found and busted, in front of a whorehouse, it made thepapers and she was ever so concious of bad publicity and that's when she broke. She might not have minded as much had he learned to be discreet. Hedda Hopper would always pull in favors when he'd get dumped at the side door of the Roxbury mansion by the police, which happened often. One funny story was the time Lucy gary and Sheilah MacRae were sitting upstairs and they heard someone breaking in, gary wanted to call the cops, but Lucy had a feeling it was Desi again, forgetting he did not live there anymore or being lonesome for that house as she put it.

I'm sure the NY man was morton, and she could have done so much better, but he was very young and even he was rumored to have had affairs while married to Lucy, these are Hollywood people after all.

Seriously? Cause that would mean she would have had to have known Gary well over a year before she -- and the friends who supposedly introduced them -- said they met. It's an interesting theory. I've never heard any rumors to that effect, though.


One funny story was the time Lucy gary and Sheilah MacRae were sitting upstairs and they heard someone breaking in, gary wanted to call the cops, but Lucy had a feeling it was Desi again, forgetting he did not live there anymore or being lonesome for that house as she put it.

Yes, I definitely remember that story. Gary was very nice to Desi about it, welcoming him inside.

Poor Desi -- sounds like he really had a hard time accepting that Lucy had moved on with another man. He referred to Gary as "That man who's sleeping with my wife." It’s been said that having Gary on-set when he was producing the early “Lucy Show” episodes was extremely painful for him. There’s that story of him watching Lucy rehearse from the catwalk, and Vivian joined him to find him in tears. He gave Lucy a beautiful piece of jewelry with a four-leaf clover on it for luck. She cried.

In the acknowledgments section of his autobiography, he thanks Edie for making him see hope again while he was in such a dark place in his life. I'll bet that Lucy was probably happy that he had found someone to take care of him and lift his spirits.

Even though he hurt her terribly, I think he definitely paid for it. Neither of them ever wanted that divorce.

Excuse me, it is my recollection and from the book I have that Lucy FILED FOR DIVORCE from Desi in 1960. She wanted the divorce because she could no longer tolerate the drinking and the infidelities on Desi's part.

Also, here is a very fascinating part of their last day together as a married couple, we discussed this before:
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?p=3665269&highlight=filed+divorce#post3665269

They're not political comments, they're jokes, you referred to Lucy helping her kids and i referred to the current Prez being helped by his family ties, most notably his dad. Lighten up people, we're not curing cancer, we're discussing an icon on a message board. So when someone can make a little comment here or there that does not go overboard i don't see anything wrong, oh wait, let me give it a Lucy type spin, i dun't mean to offend, i really dun't.:lol:
Calling the President a putz is a political comment. I've noticed it as well. We're not curing cancer, but we're talking about ILL, and the rules state no religion or politics. I could have a field day with how Desi couldn't keep it in his pants, just like Clinton, but I wouldn't. Time and a place, all that stuff. The rules are in place for a reason.

Ok, so lemme try in a Lucyesque manner then. Lucy used to love her bushes around the house, she had all these bushes and they all had fruit in them, so she'd walk aound and go Mmmmmmmmmmmmm apple, mmmmmmmmmmmmm orange bush, can you see where i'm going with this, then she saw this big one, and she went Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm peach bush! :lol: Ok, i promise, i will NEVER make a political comment again, i swear. :lol:

Ok, so lemme try in a Lucyesque manner then. Lucy used to love her bushes around the house, she had all these bushes and they all had fruit in them, so she'd walk aound and go Mmmmmmmmmmmmm apple, mmmmmmmmmmmmm orange bush, can you see where i'm going with this, then she saw this big one, and she went Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm peach bush! :lol: Ok, i promise, i will NEVER make a political comment again, i swear. :lol:
Exercising moderation and discretion is always wise, regarding politics and religion. It's not a question of never making a slam. It's when it's done on a regular basis, that some people object. You have some strong opinions on U.S. politics, or Bush anyway. You might enjoy the Politics board here.

Oh I appreciate your telling me about it, but i've been there and the people who inhabit that place are pretty scary, i just make little jokes about him, i am not interested in raising my blood pressure over something i can't do anything about, I just couldn't resist the mmmmmmmmmmmmmpeach bush joke though, it was my farewell dig, LOL! You know, it was like Lucy when the sherriff in Tennesee told her not to even go boo and she went boo as she left, LOL! You have to understand two things, every time i've made a comment, one was made from the OTHER side as well. Secondly, everything about Lucy has been said and heard more than once, so there's nothing different for me to talk about after years on the boards, so i sometimes freelance in other areas. I will leave him alone from now on. Ok, so the most shocking thing i ever heard about the gang was the time Fred Mertz and Mrs Trumbull got it on in the furnace room . . .

Ok, so the most shocking thing i ever heard about the gang was the time Fred Mertz and Mrs Trumbull got it on in the furnace room . . .
:rofl: Now, there's a visual that may take a while to get out of my head.

You know, I sit here and I read the stories of Lucy and Desi, written wonderfully by Ricardos4ever, and SPLAIN, and I get choked up. Irene, thank you for the link with all the information about their divorce -- what led to it, and the aftermath. I just finished reading it. Madame X, NOVARick, Irene, Mikado, everyone made fantastic contributions to that thread. Here were two people, who obviously loved one another, but because Desi was a handful, it couldn't work. They had two young children, and that's a bad atmosphere for kids.

The first picture that Madame posted, there is so much emotion in their faces. I say to myself, was it worth it Desi? Lucy moves on, as you did, and it's 20+ years down the drain. I think their second spouses got the short shrift, in that sense. Regardless of how anyone feels about Gary, the truth is that Edie and Gary also count in this saga. There's the second wife coming out in me, lol. Gary and Edie were people, with feelings. They loved their spouses, but knew they didn't come first. The constant contact between Lucy and Desi, the flowers on their anniversary, etc, I don't know, seems over-the-top, to me. If my husband and his ex acted that way, I'd show him the door. My husband never burned up the telephone lines with his ex. I couldn't, and I wouldn't handle that.

I realize that people have their pasts and shared history with others, but I think that Lucy and Desi weren't very considerate to their spouses, in that regard. I understand that divorced parents need to talk, but within reason. Okay, this is turning into a War and Peace size post. I think it's sad all around, for two people who were the love of each other's lives, and for their second spouses who knew they were the consolation prizes.

What a heartbreaking story. They should have sought therapy, if they didn't. It's obvious that they belonged together, and others got hurt in the process. This picture, below. Lucy has a look of sad, quiet resignation on her face, while Desi looks like he's holding on to her for dear life. That cheek to cheek thing breaks me up. My late sister and I used to do that when saying good-bye. I do it with my husband sometimes. I think it's a very personal gesture.


http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=129916&d=1190355566

This one is my favorite; very intense.

Yes, heartbreaking photos, both of them. For the show they put on an act, the bottom one shows their true feelings. As for the way they treated their second spouses, i disagree, i think Edie got what she wanted, she understood about him not being able to be faithful and could deal with it better than Lucy. Lucy could do but not publicly. As for gary, he had nothing when she met him, she gave him stature and loads of money, he had contacts after she died and that house in Palm Springs and loads of cars and lots of investments, he did very well for himself, even his family benefitted, because as much as i never liked the man, especially after hearing insiders' stories about him, he had one thing though that i loved, he was just like Lucy and Desi, took care of his family with condos and gifts, i like that.

Yes, heartbreaking photos, both of them. For the show they put on an act, the bottom one shows their true feelings. As for the way they treated their second spouses, i disagree, i think Edie got what she wanted, she understood about him not being able to be faithful and could deal with it better than Lucy. Lucy could do but not publicly. As for gary, he had nothing when she met him, she gave him stature and loads of money, he had contacts after she died and that house in Palm Springs and loads of cars and lots of investments, he did very well for himself, even his family benefitted, because as much as i never liked the man, especially after hearing insiders' stories about him, he had one thing though that i loved, he was just like Lucy and Desi, took care of his family with condos and gifts, i like that.
What I meant was how the emotional connection was never broken between Lucy and Desi, even decades after their respective marriages. I think everyone deserves to be first in their spouse's heart. If Gary and Edie were okay with that, that's another story. However, if the constant phonecalls, flowers and all that bothered Gary and/or Edie, that's where I think they got shortchanged. I don't think it's fair. I know my family and friends, and I can't think of anyone who would be on board with that.

My husband has adult children from a prior marriage, and we're in our 24th year together now. If he and his ex were still emotionally entangled, I couldn't handle it, not for a second. Fortunately, that's never been an issue, as he never was too crazy over his ex in the first place, lol. They were just about kids when they got married. Now, if something were to happen to me, if I died or left him, I'd feel bad for my husband's next spouse or girlfriend, as I'm the love of his life, and he's the love of mine.
:love:

This one is my favorite; very intense.
Are you trying to make me cry? You're doing a pretty good job of it. ;)

What I meant was how the emotional connection was never broken between Lucy and Desi, even decades after their respective marriages. I think everyone deserves to be first in their spouse's heart. If Gary and Edie were okay with that, that's another story. However, if the constant phonecalls, flowers and all that bothered Gary and/or Edie, that's where I think they got shortchanged. I don't think it's fair. I know my family and friends, and I can't think of anyone who would be on board with that.

My husband has adult children from a prior marriage, and we're in our 24th year together now. If he and his ex were still emotionally entangled, I couldn't handle it, not for a second. Fortunately, that's never been an issue, as he never was too crazy over his ex in the first place, lol. They were just about kids when they got married. Now, if something were to happen to me, if I died or left him, I'd feel bad for my husband's next spouse or girlfriend, as I'm the love of his life, and he's the love of mine.
:love:
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww that is so sweet, your last line i mean, about the loves of your lives. I have that too right now. Been a caregiver for a decade and had lost my last girlfriend to cancer and then a few months before my mom died last January, i found the true love of my life too, it took a while, and i never expected it, but i wished it like they say in THE SECRET and it happened, at the most difficult time of my life too. I think it's KARMA too, you give love, you get love. Lucy and Desi worshipped the ground each other walked on, they loved each other beyond words and i love the stories like his voice changed when he talked to her and like Polly Bergen once said of Lucy, she appeared tough, put on this facade. especially after the divorce, because she had been hurt and would never let herself be hurt like that again, but inside, she was one giant marshmellow. She was blunt and direct and curt with people, but you could do the same thing to her with just one little remark. And this GIANT LOVE they ahd for each other they also had for their kids and even the people around them. Imagine someone like Lucy, all proud and afraid of bad publicity, she hears her son wants her at this family meeting at the drug rehab center and she goes, along with the others and puts it all out there, her feelings, her failings, just to get him back and she did, the upshot though is that all the other families wore I Love Lucy buttons while doing the same for their loved ones.

If you wach the CBS Salutes Lucy, the first 25 years dvd, you hear Desi saying the greatest thing about Lucy was her warmth. The funny thing is if you watch Lucy and gary on the Barbara Walters interview, you hear gary say the exact same thing, her warmth. This is the interview where Lucy calls Desi a LOSER and i've had to defend that remark for decades now. She did not mean it the way we mean it today, she meant and says clearly that he was a LOSER in the sense that everything he built up, he eventually had to tear down. And she was even quoting him about himself, he admitted that he did that. Maybe because he had lost everything in that Cuban revolution at the tender age of 16, he had to go through the same thing any time he had something. This is the one time i agree with Lucie, that both her parents would be different today, had they been the recipients of advice by a doctor Phil or anyone else who could plainly tell them what they were doing wrong. But their generation was not able to take advantage of all the self help advice we get today. As for their spouses, you could say that for every ying, there was a yang. Yes, she treated gary a certain way, but he left her alone all the time while he went golfing everywhere. She was loyal though, to everybody who was in her circle, including her husbands, she built them up all the time in the press. Same as she constantly used her time on talk shows to brag about her kids' accomplishments. No wonder the show got that name, she loved people her whole life and so did he, they just went overboard when it came to them as a couple, even after they both lost their looks, they still loved each other the same, now that's TRUE LOVE, everlasting love, a true love story of epic proportions. Ok, i'm rambling again . . . sorry.

Oh good gravy Marie, thanks for that great avatar sweetie, it looks terrific, didn;t i tell you she looked her best in the sixties? :lol:

Oh, and i see you came to the boards a month before i did. I started coming on the Lucy boards right after September 11th happened. I came on the net for the tragedy and awful images and stayed for a respite from all that and paying tribute to someone who had clearly been the greatest influence in my life, practically raising me, watching her 18 times a week, and you see, 50 years later, it still goes on.:lol:

You know, I sit here and I read the stories of Lucy and Desi, written wonderfully by Ricardos4ever, and SPLAIN, and I get choked up. Irene, thank you for the link with all the information about their divorce -- what led to it, and the aftermath. I just finished reading it. Madame X, NOVARick, Irene, Mikado, everyone made fantastic contributions to that thread. Here were two people, who obviously loved one another, but because Desi was a handful, it couldn't work. They had two young children, and that's a bad atmosphere for kids.

The first picture that Madame posted, there is so much emotion in their faces. I say to myself, was it worth it Desi? Lucy moves on, as you did, and it's 20+ years down the drain. I think their second spouses got the short shrift, in that sense. Regardless of how anyone feels about Gary, the truth is that Edie and Gary also count in this saga. There's the second wife coming out in me, lol. Gary and Edie were people, with feelings. They loved their spouses, but knew they didn't come first. The constant contact between Lucy and Desi, the flowers on their anniversary, etc, I don't know, seems over-the-top, to me. If my husband and his ex acted that way, I'd show him the door. My husband never burned up the telephone lines with his ex. I couldn't, and I wouldn't handle that.

I realize that people have their pasts and shared history with others, but I think that Lucy and Desi weren't very considerate to their spouses, in that regard. I understand that divorced parents need to talk, but within reason. Okay, this is turning into a War and Peace size post. I think it's sad all around, for two people who were the love of each other's lives, and for their second spouses who knew they were the consolation prizes.

What a heartbreaking story. They should have sought therapy, if they didn't. It's obvious that they belonged together, and others got hurt in the process. This picture, below. Lucy has a look of sad, quiet resignation on her face, while Desi looks like he's holding on to her for dear life. That cheek to cheek thing breaks me up. My late sister and I used to do that when saying good-bye. I do it with my husband sometimes. I think it's a very personal gesture.


http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=129916&d=1190355566
Thank you Janice for such an insightful and moving post.
It tears me up to see those pics. No matter how much time goes by it still is so sad to look at.
I know what you mean abt Edie and Gary. Obviously they must have known abt the intense love Desi and Lucy had for each other. Edie and Gary were two adults who had to know. They dated their soon-to-be spouses and had to have seen much of that "love" going on between Desi and Lucy.
I so agree with you though where you say you couldn't deal with that kind of affection between your husband and his ex. I have to deal with TWO EXES!!! :lol: I am, like you, secure in knowing that my boyfriend's past is just that, his past. I have no fears or qualms. And if there was any sort of "relationship" that remained with a former flame, I sure as heck wouldn't want to be in the middle of that fiasco. :crazy:
After having divorced, I always wondered if I could find someone who makes me feel loved again. If I could ever find someone I could love with the same intensity. I am happy to God for sending me that person. I guess if you are lucky, you can find love again and never feel like a second heel.

Oh good gravy Marie, thanks for that great avatar sweetie, it looks terrific, didn;t i tell you she looked her best in the sixties? :lol:
I'm glad you like your avatar. My good friend here at SO, Ashlee aka *Pleasant Tomorrow*, put the Santa cap that I chose, on Lucy. She's my graphic's assistant. :)

There's also this avatar for you to consider. This one shows off Lucy's beautiful hair, and I think it's very elegant. My wonderful friend, Brian Damage, was kind enough to put Lucy's picture inside the frame, which I found online. With a few finishing touches by me, I think the end result is the perfect holiday avatar. You lucky guy, you have us behind the scenes. collaborating on your Lucy avatars, lol.

You can switch back and forth between the two. Just let me know. :)

Are those 2 pics of them from the last show from the actual show or backstage moments?

The one where she's smiling is from the show, the other one is a candid shot. Backstage. Thanks Janice, the pic looks terrific, both of them do, thanks again. Thanks to your helpers too.

Thanks Janice, the pic looks terrific, both of them do, thanks again. Thanks to your helpers too.
You're welcome. I put the new one up to see how it looks. If you want me to change it back to the Santa cap one, just PM me. :)

Thank you Janice for such an insightful and moving post.
It tears me up to see those pics. No matter how much time goes by it still is so sad to look at.
I know what you mean abt Edie and Gary. Obviously they must have known abt the intense love Desi and Lucy had for each other. Edie and Gary were two adults who had to know. They dated their soon-to-be spouses and had to have seen much of that "love" going on between Desi and Lucy.
I so agree with you though where you say you couldn't deal with that kind of affection between your husband and his ex. I have to deal with TWO EXES!!! :lol: I am, like you, secure in knowing that my boyfriend's past is just that, his past. I have no fears or qualms. And if there was any sort of "relationship" that remained with a former flame, I sure as heck wouldn't want to be in the middle of that fiasco. :crazy:
After having divorced, I always wondered if I could find someone who makes me feel loved again. If I could ever find someone I could love with the same intensity. I am happy to God for sending me that person. I guess if you are lucky, you can find love again and never feel like a second heel.
I also think Gary and Edie knew about the deep emotional connection between Lucy and Desi, while they were dating. Still, I'm not so sure anyone would sign on for that if they knew it would be until death. It's like marrying someone else's spouse, lol. Who knows, maybe they didn't care. I think Desi and Lucy loved their second spouses. They were long-term marriages.

I'm glad you found love again, Irene. It's no fun going it alone in this cold world. Often, the second time's a charm, or even the third or beyond. ;) I've noticed that often, in Hollywood, and in regular life as well, that the third marriage is the one that sticks. People are often very young for their first marriage. The second marriage may be a rebound or trophy wife, but the third one often succeeds.

The avatar is just Beautiful Janice, thanks again. It's funny you should mention second and third marriages. Lucy thought second marriages were the best, she even told everybody around her who did it that they were copying her, LOL! Edie and gary signed on because they knew they were loved, Lucy and Desi found in their new spouses, people who did not have the faults of the first ones. Desi knew he could manage Edie the way he never could with Lucy, he was Latin and had a thing for being the most important person in the marriage, he would no longer be Mr Ball, he would make the money, and be the provider. Lucy found someone she could hold on to at Hollywood events, someone who would never embarrass her with bad publicity and someone who would agree to anything she said. Yes there was this very accomodating Lucy who had the BIG M all over the house and let him make decisions and she thought he was a good stepfather too same as Edie being great with the kids also. But make no mistake, she knew he would have to learn the business and she gave him jobs so that he could aquire the knowledge to be able to run around in her circle. She also warned him that if she found out ONE TIME that he fooled around on her, he was GONE! It was obvious at the end though that they were not the perfect couple, when she got impatient in her old age and he was always gone golfing, it was not what she had signed up for. As for business, she seeked Desi's advice on everything, not just the kids, she knew Desi had the brains, but gary was there to hold her hand and protect her and keep people away from her. Sort of like what the Duchess of Windsor used to say. She had two hankies, one for blow and one for show. I don't have to tell you which was which in her personal life, LOL!

If you wach the CBS Salutes Lucy, the first 25 years dvd, you hear Desi saying the greatest thing about Lucy was her warmth. The funny thing is if you watch Lucy and gary on the Barbara Walters interview, you hear gary say the exact same thing, her warmth.

Wow, veddy interesting. Maybe that's what Lucy told her husbands to say in an effort to counteract those b*tch rumors, LOL. Still haven't seen that special...is Desi in it for very long?



This is the one time i agree with Lucie, that both her parents would be different today, had they been the recipients of advice by a doctor Phil or anyone else who could plainly tell them what they were doing wrong. But their generation was not able to take advantage of all the self help advice we get today.

Yeah, but didn't Lucy say in her autobiography that they did try to get some sort of couples therapy? They went to a few sessions and all they did was yell at each other. Then Desi stopped going.

I feel like what they REALLY needed -- or what Desi really needed -- was a Betty Ford Clinic. I think a lot of it came down to the fact that Desi was an alcoholic, and maybe he would have been more discreet with his little affairs if he wasn't so drunk all of the time. Friends have said that during the first part of the 50s, Desi had calmed down and wasn't playing around on Lucy that much. He was a new father and was finally living with his wife on a regular basis instead of being out on the road all the time. He was probably making an effort to be a better husband. But he let all of the pressures of running a studio get to him, and as a release he started drinking and running around with other women. I think that was his escape from all the stress he was under. Not that I'm excusing it.

Jess, are you telling me you don't or rather you DUN'T have a copy of CBS Salutes Lucy the first 25 years? I will gladly make you a copy right after the Christmas Holiday mailing season is out of the way, ok? Desi went on to sing her praises, he looks old, it's 1976 after all, and she looks old at the end of it when she accepts an award from Jimmy Stewart. Everybody who was BIG at the time was on there, Dino, Berle, Carson, Hope, Thomas, Danny Kaye and even Richie Burton himself! LOL! I don't think alcohol made Desi cheat, i think little Desi was the main reason he strayed, LOL! And i dun't mean Desi jr. Lessee, Desi called it his BIRD and claimed that it often wanted to FLY. This would be a great place to mention the time that Lucy and Desi were with the President of RKO, and he was frantically trying to tell Desi that his fly was open, he tried everything to get his attention and we all remember that Desi did not wear underwear, he was the Britney Spears of his generation. So after failing miserably to alert Desi that his fly was open, Lucy noticed and turned to Desi and said, HE'S TRYING TO TELL YOU YOUR FLY IS OPEN, then she turned to the President of RKO and merely said, HE BELIEVES IN ADVERTISING!:lol:

I can't help but think of something comedian Chris Rock said in one of his stand-ups. He said, "A man is as faithful as his options." What he then stated was if a man has women throwing themselves at him, he will most likely be unfaithful. If a man is not having women all over him, then he is likely to remain faithful. Mind you, Chris didn't imply that all men do that. A true man wouldn't do that. A jerk would. Desi was a jerk. He had many women throwing themselves at him and who was he to turn down a "freebie"...:crazy: The options were there and Desi took advantage of that. Of course, a man with $$$, regardless of his looks, can bring on all kinds of female attention. Desi had the money, add his latin looks to the mix and you had a dangerous combination. :eek: Lucy endured so much with him, she obviously loved him and had hope.

Jess, are you telling me you don't or rather you DUN'T have a copy of CBS Salutes Lucy the first 25 years? I will gladly make you a copy right after the Christmas Holiday mailing season is out of the way, ok?

Thanks Claude, that would be awesome!


I don't think alcohol made Desi cheat, i think little Desi was the main reason he strayed, LOL! And i dun't mean Desi jr. Lessee, Desi called it his BIRD and claimed that it often wanted to FLY. This would be a great place to mention the time that Lucy and Desi were with the President of RKO, and he was frantically trying to tell Desi that his fly was open, he tried everything to get his attention and we all remember that Desi did not wear underwear, he was the Britney Spears of his generation. So after failing miserably to alert Desi that his fly was open, Lucy noticed and turned to Desi and said, HE'S TRYING TO TELL YOU YOUR FLY IS OPEN, then she turned to the President of RKO and merely said, HE BELIEVES IN ADVERTISING!:lol:

LOL, I was just reading that story in his autobiography the other night. I must admit that I found his candor in that book to be quite refreshing! He didn't hold much back. In fact, he gave a little too much detail in some parts! I love how a review quote on the books's back cover describes it as a 'raunchy.'

I don't think alcohol made Desi cheat, i think little Desi was the main reason he strayed, LOL! And i dun't mean Desi jr.

:rofl: I read that quick and didn't see the "and I dun't mean Desi Jr." part until the second glance... had me wondering what the "story" behind that could have been :lol:

Desi called it his BIRD and claimed that it often wanted to FLY.

I wonder if that's the -real- reason Lucy said (in her book) that she didn't like birds! ;)

:rofl: I read that quick and didn't see the "and I dun't mean Desi Jr." part until the second glance... had me wondering what the "story" behind that could have been :lol:



I wonder if that's the -real- reason Lucy said (in her book) that she didn't like birds! ;) Well, how would YOU like a bird coming at you all the time, day and night, . . . LOL! Or maybe she just hated his going to other birdhouses all the time, LOL!

Well, how would YOU like a bird coming at you all the time, day and night, . . . LOL! Or maybe she just hated his going to other birdhouses all the time, LOL!


OMG!:rofl:

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww that is so sweet, your last line i mean, about the loves of your lives. I have that too right now. Been a caregiver for a decade and had lost my last girlfriend to cancer and then a few months before my mom died last January, i found the true love of my life too, it took a while, and i never expected it, but i wished it like they say in THE SECRET and it happened, at the most difficult time of my life too.
I'm sorry for your losses. That had to be very difficult. I'm glad you found someone to share your life with. Makes all the difference in the world.

Yup, best thing that could have happened to me, it's not perfect but it's pretty good. She claimed NEVER to have seen I LOVE LUCY, but every time i showed her one she'd tell me what was going to happen next, just like gary claiming he had never seen the show when he met Lucy, malarkey i tell ya! LOL!

On March 3, 1966, Frawley collapsed of a heart attack while walking down Hollywood Boulevard after seeing a movie. He was dragged to the nearby Knickerbocker Hotel, where he had previously lived for many years, by his male nurse — a constant companion since his prostate cancer operation more than a year before. He was then rushed to the nearby Hollywood Receiving Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

Shortly following his death, Desi Arnaz paid for a full-page ad in the Hollywood Reporter. It had a picture of Frawley, the dates of his life and death, and the caption, "Buenas Noches, Amigo!" ("Good Night, Friend").
Lucille Ball issued the statement: "I've lost one of my dearest friends and show business has lost one of the greatest character actors of all time. Those of us who knew him and loved him will miss him."


Not shocking, but news to me. The above is how Wikipedia describes William Frawley's death. It strikes me as sad, to have that happen, while walking, in public. He had a marriage which ended decades before ILL. Does anyone know anything more about his personal life? Was he gay? Not that there's anything wrong with that. :lol:

I have no idea, maybe he and Hans Conried got together in the furnace room? Actually, what you printed was one of the things i knew best about him. Also that he secured the job with My Three Sons while still under contract to Desi. The funny story about him bribing the kids on the lot to make noise when Viv was doing a scene on The Lucy Show, things like that. Lucy was very open to the gay scene because she worked with so many gay people on all her shows and movies. If you had talent, she could not have cared less about your private life. I never did know much about either Viv or Bill, they did not get written about a lot. I later found out about his knowing only HIS OWN lines and tearing them out of the script, his fanatical love of baseball and his getting time off if his beloved Yanks made the World Series. Oh and the comment from Desi that wherever they went, everybody asked how's Bill, where's Bill. I just loved a clip they posted at The Lucy Lounge of Bill singing and talking to the panelists on What's My Line, he was so warm and touching, so unlike his Fred Mertz personna.

I've always wondered what movie Frawley saw before dying.

I've always wondered what movie Frawley saw before dying.
I wonder the same thing. March of 1966? Then again, he could have seen a Charlie Chaplin festival for all we know. :)

I have no idea, maybe he and Hans Conried got together in the furnace room? Actually, what you printed was one of the things i knew best about him. Also that he secured the job with My Three Sons while still under contract to Desi. The funny story about him bribing the kids on the lot to make noise when Viv was doing a scene on The Lucy Show, things like that. Lucy was very open to the gay scene because she worked with so many gay people on all her shows and movies. If you had talent, she could not have cared less about your private life. I never did know much about either Viv or Bill, they did not get written about a lot. I later found out about his knowing only HIS OWN lines and tearing them out of the script, his fanatical love of baseball and his getting time off if his beloved Yanks made the World Series. Oh and the comment from Desi that wherever they went, everybody asked how's Bill, where's Bill. I just loved a clip they posted at The Lucy Lounge of Bill singing and talking to the panelists on What's My Line, he was so warm and touching, so unlike his Fred Mertz personna.
That was one fun furnace room, lol. I like William Frawley. I've read that he could be cranky, and others times, a real nice guy. I don't care if he was gay. I don't think anyone should be alone, unless it's what they want. In any case, I'm glad he wasn't alone when he died. That would be extra sad.

Yeah, he took care of his sister, i know that, so he had this male nurse to take care of him at the end, which is a nice thought. Like Lucy said, he was such a great character actor. I worry that all these great stories we hear are really made up. Like his supposedly having said that the awards were FIXED when Viv won the Emmy. Yet look at him on that Lucy bonus disc and he's all happy for her, pats her on the back and has his picture taken with her and Lucy.

I wanted to post this about William Frawley yesterday, but I couldn't remember where I read it:

As many of you may know, Patricia Barry was cast in the show's Pilot , as a potential girlfriend of Fred MacMurray.
Apparently, William Frawely developed a fondness for Barry as a result of her appearing in that Pilot episode. The age difference between them was 43 years! The exact nature of their relationship seems to be unknown, however, some quotes from the book, "Meet the Mertzes" by Rob Edelman & Audrey Kupferberg, give some detail. Co-star Stanley Livingston: "He used to be very fond of her. I remember him talking about her constantly. I think it was probably an infatuation that an older guy gets". Tim Considine: "I think he was encouraged, in a funny way. I think she enjoyed it. Now, how far it went, I don't know". It seems Frawley would hype her career and visit her two young daughters, however, at some point the relationship cooled off, when word got out that she was his girlfriend. This is not the end of the story. Upon his death in March, 1966, Frawley's gross estate totalled $92,446 and his assets were on track to continue growing after his death. In his will, Frawley left $5000 to look after his two brothers, and $2,000 to a friend. The remainder of the money was left to Patricia Barry!


Source:
http://www.tv.com/my-three-sons/second-time-around/episode/39429/summary.html

Wow, that's a great story, yeah i forgot i had Meet the Mertzs, i read and was fascinated by that story. Thanks for posting it here. That was a lot of money for him to have in the sixties, that would be millions today. Guess he got residuals from all his films, because we all know the show did not pay him much, i guess he made lots from special appearances too and then his role on My Three Sons.

On March 3, 1966, Frawley collapsed of a heart attack while walking down Hollywood Boulevard after seeing a movie. He was dragged to the nearby Knickerbocker Hotel, where he had previously lived for many years, by his male nurse — a constant companion since his prostate cancer operation more than a year before. He was then rushed to the nearby Hollywood Receiving Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

Shortly following his death, Desi Arnaz paid for a full-page ad in the Hollywood Reporter. It had a picture of Frawley, the dates of his life and death, and the caption, "Buenas Noches, Amigo!" ("Good Night, Friend").
Lucille Ball issued the statement: "I've lost one of my dearest friends and show business has lost one of the greatest character actors of all time. Those of us who knew him and loved him will miss him."


Not shocking, but news to me. The above is how Wikipedia describes William Frawley's death. It strikes me as sad, to have that happen, while walking, in public. He had a marriage which ended decades before ILL. Does anyone know anything more about his personal life? Was he gay? Not that there's anything wrong with that. :lol:
I have an ILL book that mentions what you just posted there Janice. I have always wanted to learn more abt Frawley's private life. Of course, all I know is what I read in that book of mine. He was a drinker and he cussed up a storm, no matter who was around. He was an avid Yankees fan and was given time off (from the ILL set) to watch the World Series when the Yankees were in it. Desi and him seemed to get along great to an extent, they both loved to drink. They each had their vices. Desi understood that of Frawley and never wanted to make him upset. As long as he learned his lines and delivered a stellar performance, Desi left Frawley to be who he was. Lucy was also a great friend to Frawley. Frawley made so many movies and didn't have a whole lot of friends. Probably because of how he loved to talk and cuss, not many could deal with being around someone like that.

Here is a link that mentions some info on William:
http://www.genealogymagazine.com/williamfrawley.html

Yeah, he took care of his sister, i know that, so he had this male nurse to take care of him at the end, which is a nice thought. Like Lucy said, he was such a great character actor. I worry that all these great stories we hear are really made up. Like his supposedly having said that the awards were FIXED when Viv won the Emmy. Yet look at him on that Lucy bonus disc and he's all happy for her, pats her on the back and has his picture taken with her and Lucy.
Yeah, I like that part where he pats her on the back. That was nice. :)

You think he had itching powder or razor blades between the fingers? :lol: How can you work with someone on the most popular show on television and be one of the most famous couples in America because of the work you do with that person and NOT take some joy in seeing them win an Emmy? I think their feelings towards one another were greatly exaggerated over the decades. It's a shame he lost the Emmy himself five times to Art Carney.

I think you're right. He was probably crotchety around everyone and becasue Vivian played his wife, they just exagerated their relationship more.

I think you're right. He was probably crotchety around everyone and becasue Vivian played his wife, they just exagerated their relationship more.
Exactly, it helped their acting! LOL! Ever see on the Christmas show, where they have to kiss, now that's acting! They make faces and it's so forced that you think you're seeing Tom Cruise kissing Katie Holmes, LOL! Or that very uncomfortable kiss between Richard Gere and Jodie Foster in Summersby, LOL! Or John Travolta kissing Kelly Preston, LOL! Well, you get the point! I think it was just the basic fact that she hated America thinking she'd be married to that old coot as she called him, when she was used to playing the other woman in dramas. And he hated her singing, i have to agree with him on one show i just watched, she takes it so HIGH that it hurts your ear, must have been to be in the same KEY as him.

I have an ILL book that mentions what you just posted there Janice. I have always wanted to learn more abt Frawley's private life. Of course, all I know is what I read in that book of mine. He was a drinker and he cussed up a storm, no matter who was around. He was an avid Yankees fan and was given time off (from the ILL set) to watch the World Series when the Yankees were in it. Desi and him seemed to get along great to an extent, they both loved to drink. They each had their vices. Desi understood that of Frawley and never wanted to make him upset. As long as he learned his lines and delivered a stellar performance, Desi left Frawley to be who he was. Lucy was also a great friend to Frawley. Frawley made so many movies and didn't have a whole lot of friends. Probably because of how he loved to talk and cuss, not many could deal with being around someone like that.

Here is a link that mentions some info on William:
http://www.genealogymagazine.com/williamfrawley.html
That's interesting reading, Irene. I enjoyed the genealogy link as well. William was a true Irishman, just like my Dad. A real Mic, as us Irish folk, call ourselves, lol.

I wanted to post this about William Frawley yesterday, but I couldn't remember where I read it:



Source:
http://www.tv.com/my-three-sons/second-time-around/episode/39429/summary.html
Wow, I've love to know all the details on that one, lol. She got the bulk of his estate. His choice, but I would have liked to see his brothers get more.

Wow, I've love to know all the details on that one, lol. She got the bulk of his estate. His choice, but I would have liked to see his brothers get more.

I bet his brothers were peeved! :mad: :lol:

I bet his brothers were peeved! :mad: :lol:
I guess his brothers never gave him what the little trollop did, LOL! Was Anna Nicole Smith around back then? Or was it her mom?:lol:

I guess his brothers never gave him what the little trollop did, LOL!
:lol: Let's hope not.

Viv's comment to Lucy: Was it I'D TELL YOU TO GO **** YOURSELF BUT I SEE DESI'S ALREADY DONE THAT, LOL! I read that one, LOL! I believed the Cesar affair or rather one night stand right away, typical Desi, he'd done it all, seen it all, so why not? He was also quoted as saying when he had these orgies that he'd be in the same room with other guys but would not share his women with them, or rather he would not let another man join them which is what i meant to say. I have also heard the best one yet, but can't share it here or anywhere else, it would floor you all. BUT, these were Hollywood people, and like i've said a thousand times, everybody had sex with everybody back then. My favorite quote was from Bogart, who went to a Hollywood party and saw all the gorgeous faces and bodies and uttered NO WONDER THEY ALL **** EACH OTHER!
Wow, those Arnazs were some wild ones. I never knew Desi was bi-sexual. Not that there's anything wrong with it. :lol:

He wasn't, it's not like he did it regularly, Cesar CLAIMED that they did it one time, how do we know it really happened and was Desi drunk at the time and not even aware that Cesar had an outie instead of an innie? LOL!:lol: