Okay, I'll start.

Lesa Lee: (you can tell my copy of vol 11 arrived today, and I wasted no time popping it in.)

1. They actually captured her, but decide to let her go after believing the ransom story (I don't know about then, but that line is extremely old nowadays.) making this story even weirder is that Lesa Lee never contacts the police on her own accord.

2. Her probation officer spots her working at the bank, but never says anything.

I'm sure Unsolved has had plenty "what the..." moments, can you's think of others?

The following is a recent "What the . . " reference in my observations re the L'Enfant segment:

The L'Enfant episode featured one of the best WTF moments in UM history. The victim is in a behavioral/mental health unit somewhere attempting to maintain his sanity after the onslaught of anonymous calls from L'Enfant. He walks up to the duty nurse and asks her if he received any messages, and she responds, "L'Enfant called twice, and ..." WTF! Nurse do you mind not telling the patient that the person whose terrorized him and possibly kidnapped him and his son is still trying to contact him?!? And BTW, can we please run a trace at least once out of the 1,112 times he calls?

A couple of WTF moments just off the top of my head.

How did Russell Evans show laces become sperated from his shoes?

How did those guys not know Liz Carmichael was a man?

The following is a recent "What the . . " reference in my observations re the L'Enfant segment:

The L'Enfant episode featured one of the best WTF moments in UM history. The victim is in a behavioral/mental health unit somewhere attempting to maintain his sanity after the onslaught of anonymous calls from L'Enfant. He walks up to the duty nurse and asks her if he received any messages, and she responds, "L'Enfant called twice, and ..." WTF! Nurse do you mind not telling the patient that the person whose terrorized him and possibly kidnapped him and his son is still trying to contact him?!? And BTW, can we please run a trace at least once out of the 1,112 times he calls?
Yes, that was a weird one LOL

How did those guys not know Liz Carmichael was a man?

There are two major "WTF Moments" on that story.

1.) NO ONE that worked for her thought she was a man???

2.) The people that worked for her were "so committed" to the Dale that they wanted to go on even after Liz and build it. Folks, the car did not, would not, and will not ever exist. Seem hard to believe a car can get 70 MPG and be crash resistant for $3000? Hell, yes -- cause it ain't possible!

"Committed"? The people at that company need to be committed -- to a psych ward. :D

That segment had "WTF" written all over it.

Biggest wut the... moment for me is anytime a story seems so simple or they know who the perpetrator is(e.g. burkett/bright) and the end of the story comes.....and no update. Wut the?

I was just watching the segment the other day featuring the shooting death of that Nashville music promoter and his buddy "Sammy" something. Now, I've seen the City Confidential episode about this so I know the crim wasn't comitted by "some black guy", but I had a "whut the..." moment during the UM re-enactment o fthe crime.

As the shooter, having already shot Sammy the Seal, begins to chase Kevin down, the shot changes from behind the car seeing Kevin run off camera from the driver's side - to an overhead shot facing the direction Kevin began running with the killer stepping into frame.

For a split second, you can see someone in the driver's seat of the car Kevin was murdered by. The person, I can't tell if its a he-person or a she-person, lays down across to the passenger seat as the gunman steps into frame.

"WHUT THE...?!"

Was there a witness sitting in that car? How come UM didn't mention that person? Was it just a UM set worker who forgot to get out of the shot?

Here's another one...

THE ENTIRE TIM MCCLURE STORY.

From start to finish that story should have "WTF?" posted all over it. The first time I saw it, I actually laughed out loud when it said Tim failed the lie detector test and his wife failed only one question: "Who killed Tim's mom?"

Hard to believe he was later arrested for that crime. :rolleyes:

Here's another one...

THE ENTIRE TIM MCCLURE STORY.

From start to finish that story should have "WTF?" posted all over it. The first time I saw it, I actually laughed out loud when it said Tim failed the lie detector test and his wife failed only one question: "Who killed Tim's mom?"

Hard to believe he was later arrested for that crime. :rolleyes:

tell me about it

There are some people on UM that, I'm not sure if they're innocent or not, but they at least have believable stories and rationale explanations to what happened (think Jeffrey MacDonald, Stuart Heaton, Glen Consagra, Larry Race, etc.)

McClure's response to everything that makes him look guilty: "I'm not sure how that could have happened."

I'm going to do a little bit of odds calculating, these are my estimates:

1. Tim says that he waited until last to check the casino where his mother was found dead because he had a "bad hunch" about it. But if you knew she was going to turn up there, why waste all that time checking other places? Odds of Tim's hunch being correct without having advanced knowledge: 1 in 100.

2. Tim looks for Mrs. McClure's purse without knowing that it was stolen, and not only that, but miraculously finds it. Odds of Tim not having any advanced knowledge of this: 1 in 10,000

3. Tim takes out a life insurance policy shortly before Mrs. McClure turns up dead. The main three motives for murder cases are drugs, money and sex. Nothing was missing from Mrs. McClures purse, ruling out money, and drugs and sex can pretty much be eliminated, which leaves Tim has the only person with a motive. Odds of someone else having a motive: 1 in 100.

4. Tim claims that the credit card person put the wrong date on the form (Tim claims that he canceled the card after his mother died, but the form says he did it beforehand) According to Tim, the clerk was off by three days. Now I work third shift, which means I always work in two different days, so I occasinally put the wrong date: one off either way. But someone missing the correct date by 3 whole days is albiet rare. Odds of the clerk being wrong: 1 in 100.

5. Tim's alibi states he was gambling alone. But who gambles alone after getting married? It's like saying, Ok I married you, I want to be alone now. Furthermore, no one can remember seeing him in the casino despite that he is like 6 foot 6, has long hair and is wearing a tux. Odds of believabability of Tim's alibi: 1 in 100.

6. Tim and his fiancee both fail the lie detector test. Odds of them both failing it but telling the truth: 1 in 100.

7. At the start of the program, Stack says this is a rare instance where someone tries to clear their name (Tim). Not once does Tim ever talk about finding the "real killer" or for that matter, seem angry/sad that it happened. His only interest is clearing his name. Odds of someone not being STEAMED about their mother's death: 1 in 100.

Overall odds of Tim being innocent: 1 in ten quadrillion.

but I'm open for discussion about this one.

Overall odds of Tim being innocent: 1 in ten quadrillion.

but I'm open for discussion about this one.

LMAO! :lol: That is freaking hilarious...

Tim McClure is either the dumbest or the most arrogant person in UM history. And you are right about the "real killers" part. He never wants justice for his mom, only aquittal for himself.

Maybe old Timmy should contact O.J. so they can hunt down the "real killers" together.

Excellent post, wiseguy!

LMAO! :lol: That is freaking hilarious...

Tim McClure is either the dumbest or the most arrogant person in UM history. And you are right about the "real killers" part. He never wants justice for his mom, only aquittal for himself.

Maybe old Timmy should contact O.J. so they can hunt down the "real killers" together.

Excellent post, wiseguy!

thanks. Honest to God, I thought of OJ when typing that post.

But wait...there's more:

8. Not one single person recalls seeing Tim nor his wife from 10 pm to roughly 6 the next day. That's an eight hour block of time, and you had to figure the casino was going to be busy. Not one single person. I did get somewhat of a chuckle when Tim said "if anybody saw me there, now would be a good time to come forward" LOL. 8 hours is long time to not be able to account for your actions, moreover for two persons.

9. Anyone find it a tad odd that a 62 or 63 year old woman would go to a casino alone, after 10:30 pm when she could have gone to a casino and been with your son on his wedding night, and have him with his 6'5 frame accompany her in case she won some money, which is why people go to casinos in the first place.

better make that 1 in 100 quadrillion

Also curious why it took so long to find the body.

Hard to believe he was later arrested for that crime. :rolleyes:


He was arrested after the UM segment? Can you link me to any current info.?

He was arrested after the UM segment? Can you link me to any current info.?

I remember when they replayed it (it might even have been Lifetime) they had a short update that said he had been arrested and charged with murder.

I can't find anything on Google and I don't remember any other updates on the story. I vividly remember the update though because I remember thinking "Duh" when it said they arrested him.

I'm wondering where else we could find info on that story... Does anyone else remember that update??? I don't want to be labeled a crack smoker.

interesting how they try to sway you towards Tim McClure's way of thinking, partially by playing up his shock and bewilderment that he was being considered a suspect. :rolleyes:

How did those guys not know Liz Carmichael was a man?


HAHAHAHAHA! Totally! :)

Overall odds of Tim being innocent: 1 in ten quadrillion.


LOL. Oh, I miss Awsi.... :)

LOL. Oh, I miss Awsi.... :)

funny you should say that, I was going to type "lifetime supply of whoppers, no cheese" if Tim McClure turns up innocent. :lol:

congrats on passing the bar.

p.s. trivia question for all: Awsi made that wager when discussing which segment?

I believe it was if Adam Emery was ever found alive. After watching this case on Volume 11, I was actually reading a bunch of old threads and remembered that comment

I believe it was if Adam Emery was ever found alive. After watching this case on Volume 11, I was actually reading a bunch of old threads and remembered that comment

that would be correct. :)

follow-up question: what phrase that's a symonymn for 'dead meat' did he frequently use to describe Adam Emery?

Another WTF moment... how did the gun used to kill the pizzaman, Morris Davis, get stolen out of that guys house and returned? The owner says he doesn't know how it could of happened but he knew that the gun was later stolen straight away.... something doesn't add up here.

Probably another moment is how the hell did Donnie Hansen get found not guilty? ohno:

Why the f@#k did Dan Marino get bail? His subsequent disappearance was predictable as the sunrise :(

Probably another moment is how the hell did Donnie Hansen get found not guilty? ohno:(

I read somewhere that a few of the jurors ended up regretting voting not guilty.

going back to Tim McClure...

10. Anyone find it strange that Tim and his wife said they were gambling/dancing all night as opposed to doing, you know, what couples usually do on their wedding night? ;) Sounds like a plan to hope somebody goofs and claims they saw them that night, interestingly no one did.

11. They are unable to remember what dance halls they went to that night. Wouldn't they remember? Isn't this a special occasion?

12. Tim claims that he's shocked that his mother had a life insurance policy. Don't most people that age have one?

13. what are the odds that no one would have seen Terri murdered in the parking lot? and why was she in the passenger side seat as show in the segment? These things indicate to me she was murdered somewhere else and her car and body drove there. If somebody else did these things, they oddly enough drove it to a spot where Tim would wind up checking.

bump it up to one in one quintillion.

So he was later convicted of it? i thought he was guilty too. I remember his obvious amazement that he was a suspect and his crazy ass mullet. Hehe.
Did they find a body?

LOL. Oh, I miss Awsi.... :)
Congrats on passing the bar!!!!!

Sorry totally unrelated to the thread.....

tell me about it

There are some people on UM that, I'm not sure if they're innocent or not, but they at least have believable stories and rationale explanations to what happened (think Jeffrey MacDonald, Stuart Heaton, Glen Consagra, Larry Race, etc.)

McClure's response to everything that makes him look guilty: "I'm not sure how that could have happened."

I'm going to do a little bit of odds calculating, these are my estimates:

1. Tim says that he waited until last to check the casino where his mother was found dead because he had a "bad hunch" about it. But if you knew she was going to turn up there, why waste all that time checking other places? Odds of Tim's hunch being correct without having advanced knowledge: 1 in 100.

2. Tim looks for Mrs. McClure's purse without knowing that it was stolen, and not only that, but miraculously finds it. Odds of Tim not having any advanced knowledge of this: 1 in 10,000

3. Tim takes out a life insurance policy shortly before Mrs. McClure turns up dead. The main three motives for murder cases are drugs, money and sex. Nothing was missing from Mrs. McClures purse, ruling out money, and drugs and sex can pretty much be eliminated, which leaves Tim has the only person with a motive. Odds of someone else having a motive: 1 in 100.

4. Tim claims that the credit card person put the wrong date on the form (Tim claims that he canceled the card after his mother died, but the form says he did it beforehand) According to Tim, the clerk was off by three days. Now I work third shift, which means I always work in two different days, so I occasinally put the wrong date: one off either way. But someone missing the correct date by 3 whole days is albiet rare. Odds of the clerk being wrong: 1 in 100.

5. Tim's alibi states he was gambling alone. But who gambles alone after getting married? It's like saying, Ok I married you, I want to be alone now. Furthermore, no one can remember seeing him in the casino despite that he is like 6 foot 6, has long hair and is wearing a tux. Odds of believabability of Tim's alibi: 1 in 100.

6. Tim and his fiancee both fail the lie detector test. Odds of them both failing it but telling the truth: 1 in 100.

7. At the start of the program, Stack says this is a rare instance where someone tries to clear their name (Tim). Not once does Tim ever talk about finding the "real killer" or for that matter, seem angry/sad that it happened. His only interest is clearing his name. Odds of someone not being STEAMED about their mother's death: 1 in 100.

Overall odds of Tim being innocent: 1 in ten quadrillion.

but I'm open for discussion about this one.
agree with all you said, especially #5. My fiance always laughs at this eppie because he always says whenever he watches it: "Who gambles on their wedding night???? You just got married for Pete's sake!!!" Of course, I always know where his mind is when he says that, but that's another story!

Anyway, I feel that he's guilty too...either that or he has extremely BAD LUCK.

Also, biggest "what the.." moments for me:

1. The two people who at the beginning of the Dennis Depue seggie. I'm sorry but there ain't no way in hell if I saw a man with a bloody sheet at an abandoned church, would I go to that same place to snoop around. Don't get me wrong...I'd call the cops but going to investigate???? No way!!! I don't even think I would have followed the guy to get a license plate #. I'm sorry but I'm just scarey like that!!

2. The Gary Grant eppie. When Boo Mason's grandmother was brought in to sign Boo's "confession", she just signed it without even reading it. Hopefully Boo's grandmother didn't actually do this and I doubt she did. The actress could have at least pretended she read over it before just signing it.

3. The Don Smith episode. This whole case was just weird. The fact the guy allowed himself to be seen so openly with Don by some many diff. people plus the fact that he waited so long to kill Don seems odd.

4.

So he was later convicted of it? i thought he was guilty too. I remember his obvious amazement that he was a suspect and his crazy ass mullet. Hehe.
Did they find a body?

I think he was arrested, but released. They realized the case against him was circumstancial (or circlestancial, according to Jerry Strickland, :lol: ), although I feel the circumstancial evidence is pretty overwhelming. The body was found 3 days after she disappeared.

1. The two people who at the beginning of the Dennis Depue seggie. I'm sorry but there ain't no way in hell if I saw a man with a bloody sheet at an abandoned church, would I go to that same place to snoop around. Don't get me wrong...I'd call the cops but going to investigate???? No way!!! I don't even think I would have followed the guy to get a license plate #. I'm sorry but I'm just scarey like that!!

Agreed. And this was back in the day when cell phones/car phones were only common among the rich. I think somebody might have mentioned it before, but I think some of these older cases might not happen today with the abundance of cell phones.

That's the ONE segment I actually sat my wife down and forced her to watch. I think I prefaced it with, "Get ready to see the most oblivious human being on the planet...this guy just doesn't know how to keep his foot out of his mouth". I was kinda hoping that Tim really was innocent though...I looked forward to his guest appearances on that new Geico Caveman sit-com.

That's the ONE segment I actually sat my wife down and forced her to watch. I think I prefaced it with, "Get ready to see the most oblivious human being on the planet...this guy just doesn't know how to keep his foot out of his mouth". I was kinda hoping that Tim really was innocent though...I looked forward to his guest appearances on that new Geico Caveman sit-com.
Who could forget Tim saying that he was being "guided by the holy spirit when he was looking through the parking lots." I love the recreation. One of my favorite segments by far.

As I recall... Awsi used to say that Adam Emery was "fish food." :)

Thanks to everyone for your support! :)

The following is a recent "What the . . " reference in my observations re the L'Enfant segment:

The L'Enfant episode featured one of the best WTF moments in UM history. The victim is in a behavioral/mental health unit somewhere attempting to maintain his sanity after the onslaught of anonymous calls from L'Enfant. He walks up to the duty nurse and asks her if he received any messages, and she responds, "L'Enfant called twice, and ..." WTF! Nurse do you mind not telling the patient that the person whose terrorized him and possibly kidnapped him and his son is still trying to contact him?!? And BTW, can we please run a trace at least once out of the 1,112 times he calls?

you're right about that one. there's even more to it: the nurse says it in such a way, like she's suggesting "oh that wacky L'enfant is up to his crazy shenanigans again." and the actor that plays Bashir saunters off back to his room and you get the impression that poor Bashir will be stuck in that mental ward for the rest of his life. Geez, lady: the whole purpose of Bashir being in there was that he wouldn't have to know about the calls. And is it really important to tell him? they've called him thousands of times, do they have anything new to say?

anyone else creeped out over the assualt on the new manager's son scene? I mean, this kid is just walking in the woods and out of absolute NOWHERE these two men come out and go after him. that one unnerved me, because most of the time you know when something bad is about to happen in a segment, so you can at least prepare for it, but this one is just unsettling.

My fiance always laughs at this eppie

I laughed too. And anytime I laugh at someone's version of events when they're accused of murder is not an encouraging sign of the accused.

... when the guy walks in on the I-55 murderer in the wedding shop, and the murderer just lets him go (after just murdering two other people).

"Hey man, I aint goin' back in that room with you!"

"Ok, get outta here..."

... when the guy walks in on the I-55 murderer in the wedding shop, and the murderer just lets him go (after just murdering two other people).

"Hey man, I aint goin' back in that room with you!"

"Ok, get outta here..."


Haha, yeah that one cracked me up too! :lol:

... when the guy walks in on the I-55 murderer in the wedding shop, and the murderer just lets him go (after just murdering two other people).

"Hey man, I aint goin' back in that room with you!"

"Ok, get outta here..."
Yes, that guy had a lot of guts for taking his stand. I guess he did not really have anything to lose because if he went in the back room he probably would have been shot and killed. He just took the chance of being shot there or the rare chance of being let go. He gave the impression of " I aint saying nothing, I don't care, but it did work.

That was one lucky dude, to be able to walk away from a pschopath with a gun.

usually, it's best to just do what the gunmen tells you, and in most cases there will be no physical harm. this was one of those rare instances where it was better to not do what the gunmen says, although the customer might not have known it at the time, as he probably would have ended up getting killed. I think the customer benefited from being at the front of the store as it appears the killer liked to kill in the back room with no possibility of witnesses. Thank heavens he didn't go through a back entrance, if there was one.

Not a big what the moment, but when I was watching the Tom Molnar segment, the parents arrive at the gas station and approach the attendent with Tim's photo and information. It goes something like (not exact):

Tim's Mom: Have you seen our son? He went missing a few days ago in this car.

Attendent: Yea, that's a really nice car. Yep, it's a real beauty. I remember that car, nice color and everything... oh and him too...

Just seemed he was more interested in the car than a person who just went missing...

Two "WHAT THE...?" moments came to me during the Louis Bourgeois & Jean Marie Gagnon segment.

First: When they showed a photograph of the duo...you know the one I mean. It had Louie-boy and Jean Marie shirtless, grinning ear to ear, whimsically carefree in a seemingly loving "spooning" embrace...just two homosexual French-Canadian armed robbers without a care in the world. I wonder if they do those at Glamour Shots?

Second: after MONSIEUR Gagnon had been captured by California Highway Patrol, extradited back to Boston (do you say "extradited" when they stay in the same country?) and sentenced. If I remember correctly, he was sentenced to something like 2-1/2 years. "WHAT THE...?" His original sentence plus the time added for fleeing federal custody?!? That was it?!

What's offensive about that? Because I used the word homosexual?

Specualtive...ehh...maybe. I've got plenty of friends I'm really close with but we'd never think to pose barechested for a photograph with one of us cuddling the other.


EDITED TO SAY: never mind...I think I know what you were talking about. I fixed it, and yeah I can see that being offensive. I kinda balked at it when I first typed it. Apologies if I hurt anyone's feelings!

I think when Bob Hall got 15 years probation and time served after pleading guilty to THE MURDER of his wife would definitely qualify in this category.

What's offensive about that? Because I used the word homosexual?

Specualtive...ehh...maybe. I've got plenty of friends I'm really close with but we'd never think to pose barechested for a photograph with one of us cuddling the other.

I thought it funny the TV guide description writing people referred to them as a "couple". Check the episode guide for 2/8/89 if ya don't believe.

I'd have to say the Tracy Kirkpatrick case. The young man (I think he went by the name Sean or Don) who called in to that radio station and corresponded with a psychic but still nothing came out of it even though they traced the calls to that guy and the psychic even recognized his voice... Very strange...

:confused:

yeah but his name wasn't "shawn" or "don" so apparently that was enough to clear him. WTF?!?!?

What's offensive about that? Because I used the word homosexual?

Specualtive...ehh...maybe. I've got plenty of friends I'm really close with but we'd never think to pose barechested for a photograph with one of us cuddling the other.


EDITED TO SAY: never mind...I think I know what you were talking about. I fixed it, and yeah I can see that being offensive. I kinda balked at it when I first typed it. Apologies if I hurt anyone's feelings!

Wow maybe I'm just naive but I never figured those two to be a "couple" ... then again, I was shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, when George Michael came out of the closet. Anyway, to me, the biggest WTF part of this segment was when the law man said, "When they called me, I wasn't suprised at all that they escaped. I wasn't suprised at all. I wanted to say what took them so long??" Geez, maybe they should have taken some added precautions, then?

then again, I was shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, when George Michael came out of the closet.

:lol:
:lol:
:lol:

Definitely Jim Boomgarden and his "evil twin." How was this segment even made or aired?

The lady who kept dreaming things about her father and grandfather, Benjamin, which her father later confirmed. Sweet segment, but since there is no one's word on it but that of a few family members and no one else can prove or disprove anything, what was the point?

Georgia Tann. I can understand how she may have conned some people into signing away children, or trumped up charges to have cops seize them, but how did she get away with snatching one off the street, then being brazen enough to TELL the mother where the kid was? And why did the mother not rush down by any means and GRAB that kid? It's easy to picture parents of missing children who didn't have a choice of trying to reclaim their child just screaming over this one. :mad:

Finally my first post after reading here up and down for about 2 years...hello out there, greetings from Hamburg/Germany!


The Dan Tondevold segment, where Robert Stack reveals the son of Mrs Berry, Hugh, who killed his Grandma in 1951 was actually Lobotomized...that TOTALLY freaked me out. Lobotomy was practiced numerously in the first half of the 20th century; look it up in the wikipedia. GRUESOME...to imagine anyone in thier right mind snipping around on and in the living human brain like that *shiver* and most of those "operations" went horridly wrong for the victims ("victim" is definitely the right term...).

Finally my first post after reading here up and down for about 2 years...hello out there, greetings from Hamburg/Germany!


The Dan Tondevold segment, where Robert Stack reveals the son of Mrs Berry, Hugh, who killed his Grandma in 1951 was actually Lobotomized...that TOTALLY freaked me out. Lobotomy was practiced numerously in the first half of the 20th century; look it up in the wikipedia. GRUESOME...to imagine anyone in thier right mind snipping around on and in the living human brain like that *shiver* and most of those "operations" went horridly wrong for the victims ("victim" is definitely the right term...).

Welcome! :wave:

Yes lobotomies sound just horrible. I can't help but think of Rosemary Kennedy when I hear that word. Her father had her lobotomized to help cure her "mood swings" and it incapacitated her for the rest of her life. I hadn't caught that part in the Dan Tondevold segment, very interesting.

:D :wave:


Yep, reading in to the Kennedy Dynasty facts was the first time I came accross lobotomy...to imagine poor Rosemary may just have had a hypothyroidism and got her brain slashed...:eek: That would be another topic for "Strange Legends", Lobotomy, don't you think?

Watching different segments right now; can't decide which one gives me more creeps or which one has special WTF-moments...I guess those where is shown how the police frigg'd up the investigations. *sigh*

Greetings from o'er the ocean
Black

Story goes, old Joe Kennedy had this done to Rosemary when his wife, Rose, was out of town. She never got over it. One day years later she came in and found him lying in distress, obviously having fallen to a stroke, and instead of calling for help went swimming--let him see how he liked something going wrong in HIS brain--and he ended up worse than Rosemary for about the last 9 years of his life.

The wound suffered by President Reagan's press secretary, Jim Brady, in the assassination attempt has been compared to a frontal lobotomy.

Mine HAS too be "Liz Carmichael "

For me, one of the bigger wth moments was Monica Rizzo's son. It may have been the way UM depicted it, but he didn't seem to express that great of concern to the police over his mom's disappearance. He was undoubtedly aware that his father was abusive towards his mother, his mother uncharacteristically vanishes, and unless he was the anonymous caller, he says and does nothing about it?

In the case of the I-70 killer, I dont think he killed the guy that walked in to the bridal shop because he was a man. With the exception of one man in Indiana that had a pony tail the I-70 killer only killed women. So clearly he has a major disrespect of women and hates them actually. Clearly the killer just didnt want to kill the guy, he could have shot him and just been done with it if he wanted to kill him.

Yeah, something doesnt add up with the Morris Davis Jr case. Somehow, someway, the guy's gun which according to him is hid in a closet in between some heavy blankets gets stolen and used in a murder/robbery. Then he hides in the shadows for no real appearant reason and even has his voice altered. Kind of pulling a Donny Hansen there.

I dont think the guy that pawned the gun was the one that did it. Why would he pawn it in Great Falls then? However I do think the gun owner knows more than he is telling. He probably isnt the one that actually did the murder. But I'm pretty sure more than just he and his wife knew about that gun and where it was.

Personally, Tim McClure is a guy that I think probably did murder or his mother. However what I cant figure out is why he would murder her? I have a hard time believing he would murder his mother just so he could inherit 5 grand.

But yeah, it's obvious that McClure is hiding something. Remember, the term lie detector is actually in itself misleading. What a polygraph machine does is it detects deception. This doesnt necessarily mean a person is lying when they fail. It does mean that they are not telling everything they know.

The one big thing that always bothered me with McClure was his story about how he went out gambling alone for over two hours on his wedding night? Who goes off alone the night of their wedding? The big reason why McClure was never indicted in this case was because while they couldnt verify Tim's alibi, they also couldnt prove that he was the one that murdered his mother. He was arrested in 1992 but was released shortly after being booked because the district attorney declined to file charges. So the cops themselves went and arrested him 9 years after the murder without the district attorney signing off on it.

That was actually a bonehead move for the Carson City Sheriff's Department to do that because it would further polarize the situation and keep the DA from prosecuting in the future without the smoking gun (sorry for the bad pun).

In Donny Hansen's case, he got helped by his case being moved to an urban area. His case was moved out of Northern California completely. The prosecutors wanted the trial moved to Sacramento but his lawyers wanted it moved further south.

So Donny's trial was in Alameda County, California (Oakland). That's an urban area, a large minority population but people in general in that type of area tend to be very untrusting of cops and prosecutors. My guess would be that at least some of the jurors thought he did it but just werent comfortable enough to convict him based on the evidence presented.

Plus a neighbor that allegedly saw two men running away from the crime scene. I believe this witness to be mistaken in what and who they saw. The evidence in this case would have been solid with Julie's testimony. However with her death, her testimony became inadmissable because she hadnt been cross-examined by defense attorney's and with her death could not be cross-examined. However the evidence while circumstancial, was damning for Donny Hansen.

Honestly, his case is up there with OJ in terms of there being a lot of good evidence, yet an acquittal. I have seen so many people convicted of murder off of much less than what they had on Donny Hansen. Hansen was the one that purchased the gas used to burn down the trailer. Hansen was the one that purchased the shotgun shells used to kill his sisters. Hansen was the one who had borrowed the shotgun used to kill his sisters from a friend. He tried to break into his shed to get the shotgun, presumably to cover up his link to it. He initially lied about all of this stuff.

So in order to acquitt him you would have to believe that some unknown intruders, identity and motive unknown, targeted the Hansen's trailer, didnt take anything, yet shot just the twins and passed a sleeping Donny on the couch. Then they set the house on fire, once again sparring Donny. You would have to believe that the can full of gas, the shotgun and the shells were all just laying around.

Those killers must have been greatful to Donny for just leaving all this stuff laying around for them to pick up and use. I might be pro defense but it's obvious Donny did this. Whether he acted alone or not, that is a true mystery. He might not have acted alone but he was certainly involved.

The Monika Rizzo case I was just watching on Dailymotion. They went to her home to look for her bones after an anonamous tip. They proceed to find the remains of at least 4 folks including her strewn all over the backyard and in the grill! WTF! Is the husband a serial killer? what's more the bones may have been chopped up with a wood chipper. :confused:

I think the police eventually concluded that the bones in the backyard only belonged to one person: Monica Rizzo.

My biggest WTF! moment

How could the Sheriff possibly think burning Eric Taminyasu's bed was a good idea???!!!:mad:

Please!! he's either in on it or he's dumbest cop in the history of law enforcement:stupid:

Same with the authorities who discarded evidence in the Bobby Fuller case. And that woman discovered underwater in a barrel, and one of her burn barrels was missing--whatever became of it?

There was one in which two guys tunneled into a bank vault and the narration said this "netted them only about ninety thousand dollars." So? How long did it take to make that tunnel vs. how long it would take two guys working regular jobs to make ninety grand? The narration made it sound like a waste of time! :confused:

The biggest one for me is probably releasing the "crazy from Detroit" in the Kurt Sova case, but that's probably been mentioned.

And the unidentified individual thought to be "Don" and/or "Sean" in the Tracey Kirkpatrick case---surely authorities seriously did not stop investigating that guy just because neither one of those was his name. :rolleyes: I'm not sure if that's the reason they backed away from it, though.

In both those cases there are probably details they're not telling.

I reckon the story about that guy who kept crossing the US-Canada border, then ended up dead in a parking lot with German money all around him.

In both those cases there are probably details they're not telling.

I think that's more than likely the case with Tracey Kirkpatrick, I'm not so sure about Kurt Sova, though.

I reckon the story about that guy who kept crossing the US-Canada border, then ended up dead in a parking lot with German money all around him.

Funny you should mention that. I was in contact with the Knox County Sheriff about a month ago when I noticed that Blair Adams was somehow not on their website's list of cold cases, which I thought was odd.....it's probably THE biggest cold case in all of Knoxville and Knox County.

http://www.knoxsheriff.org/content/view/201/44/


I live two exits down on I-40 from the unfinished (now complete) motel parking lot he was found in. :(

Hi MegtheEgg86, you happen to live close by where several UM cases took place. Doesn't that creep you out? First the ATV murders and now Blair Adams, yikes!

Hi MegtheEgg86, you happen to live close by where several UM cases took place. Doesn't that creep you out? First the ATV murders and now Blair Adams, yikes!

It can get a little unnerving when I get to thinking about it, but in all actuality I only live quite close to the site of two UM events: of course the Blair Adams motel, and Ellen McClung Berry's old house outside town from the Dan Tondevold segment. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think UM also did a segment on former University of TN football star Reggie White and his church getting burned down, which they were pretty sure was an arson. If that's the case, then make that three!) Fortunately, the ATV murders site is around an hour from my actual home in Knoxville---and that's the scariest one, IMO. Cheryl Holland murdered her aunt and uncle in that general vicinity as well. Then you've got Kevin Hughes, the Baskin children, and George Owens around two hours away. The furthest from me would be Margo Freshwater, who was originally captured in Memphis in 1969. But she was returned to and is still sitting in Tennessee State Prison for Women in Nashville, which, again, is two hours away. As far as out-of-state places are concerned, Valdese, NC where the Rhonda Hinson murder took place is roughly an hour and 15 minutes east. I live in a UM hotbed!

well normally I don't watch the new UM, but I happened to be watching a little bit today and Farina said something to the effect of "people like a good mystery, especially when it's true." it was almost as if he was saying 'thank goodness killings and such happen in real life because they're more enjoyable then when they're made up.'

what the..???

Who could forget Tim saying that he was being "guided by the holy spirit when he was looking through the parking lots." I love the recreation. One of my favorite segments by far.

Ah yes Tim McClure and his Mullet of Shame. Good Lord could he have been any more guilty? Because, Tim, the Holy Spirit spends a lot of time guiding people through parking lots.

I always (yes ALWAYS) get a WTF look on my face when these women are wined and dined by men they have known for about 16 hours and give them $15,000 as a "loan."

McClung Berry Ellen As bad as I felt for her, I can't believe she was allowed to hand over her POA to a sweet talking stranger.

Clifford Sherwood case, Clifford's mother says, "Clifford never made it to school and neither did George." They go right on from there with no mention of George again--not even when the torso of a young boy turned up some time later. Clifford's mother was asked to possibly identify it as her son and declined on the grounds that she didn't accept that it was him. No mention of whether the same request was made to George's family, what they said or did, what became of the remains, and no further mention or picture of George! :confused: :mad: :soapbox:

Ah yes Tim McClure and his Mullet of Shame. Good Lord could he have been any more guilty? Because, Tim, the Holy Spirit spends a lot of time guiding people through parking lots.

Don't forget the nifty wardrobe he was wearing in the segment. Pink sweatshirt with a red tutleneck. :lol:

I always (yes ALWAYS) get a WTF look on my face when these women are wined and dined by men they have known for about 16 hours and give them $15,000 as a "loan."

J.D. Method was THE MAN!! He swindled women one after another. What a pro.:D

Don't forget the nifty wardrobe he was wearing in the segment. Pink sweatshirt with a red tutleneck. Tim and his mullett and butt ugly wardrobe should be grounds enough to go to jail.

I got a WTF look on my face when that female con artist from Vegas bought a fur coat from someone and was told to bring cash but brought a cashier's check and THE GUY ACCEPTED IT. I would be, no, cash only so leave now and take your worthless check with you.

Then, to make it even more interesting, the guy was chasing her down while the wife was at home with a walky-talky or whatever. People, let the police do their jobs.

I got a WTF look on my face when that female con artist from Vegas bought a fur coat from someone and was told to bring cash but brought a cashier's check and THEY GUY ACCEPTED IT. I would be, no, cash only so leave now and take your worthless check with you.

Then, to make it even more interesting, the guy was chasing her down while the wife was at home with a walky-talky or whatever. People, let the police do their jobs.

Yeah, Robert Stack called the furniture salesman an "amateur sleuth". :lol:

Yeah, Robert Stack called the furniture salesman an "amateur sleuth". An amateur slueth who is about to get shot in the arm! Why do people insist on getting involved?

Yeah, Robert Stack called the furniture salesman an "amateur sleuth". :lol:

Amateur sleuth!?

I'm insulted. ;) I thought that's what we were. Perusing the internet from the safety and comfort of our homes, looking for little clues to crimes and coming up with theories to solve the unsolveds.

Not jumping in our cars and chasing after crazy people while walkie talking back to "home base".

The biggest "What The?" moment happend for me today when I was reviewing the Dick Hansen murder segment.

Jean and Dick have been chased all over town in their cars by a murderer who changes lanes when they do, stops when they do, turns when they do, and parks behind them every time the park somewhere.

When they finally pull over after being chased for 10 miles on the expressway, she was shocked that the killer didn't "wave" at them as he drove by, but actually pulled in and parked behind them. Again!

Duh.

The correct response in such a case would be to drive straight for the nearest police station. Anyone got a better one?

The correct response in such a case would be to drive straight for the nearest police station. Anyone got a better one?

Back in the 90s, I was driving my kids to the library when some nut started road raging on me. (The whole trip to the library was on back roads that were two lanes, and not very busy with traffic.)

I don't know why he started harassing me. He tailgated, accelerated quickly to ride the back bumper, weaved his truck in and out of the lane for no reason, and some other stupid stuff.

I immediately drove to the police station. He followed me for about 6 miles, but he wasn't willing to follow me into the police station parking lot. He just drove on by.

Once, I did chase down a bad guy. A man tried to abduct my son off his bike only 4 houses down our isolated dead end road. DS was 9 years old at the time.

The guy saw DS and literally spun his car around in a 180 so that his driver's door would be next to DS. Well, DS was on his bike and rushed home to tell me what happened.

He described the car completely. (Since he was only 9, I had to ask some weird car related questions to figure out if it was a station wagon or an el camino. (It was a gray wagon.)

After I got the description, I grabbed my camera, locked my kids in the house, and followed the only main road, hoping I might find him. Sure enough, he was pulled into a self serve car wash.

Two young women were there vacuuming out their car. He parked his car at an angle, in front of their car, so that if they tried to escape, it would slow them down, since they would have to drive in reverse to get away.

I jumped out of my car and started taking pictures of him and his car from a distance of about 100 feet or so. Then I got closer. Then even closer.

The next thing I know, I am kneeling in the parking lot, 12 inches from the back of his car, taking photographs of his license plate and close ups of him and his car.

He was so engrossed with the young ladies, that he never noticed me prowling all around his car! And you know what those vacuums are like at the car wash. One car pulls on one side and another car would pull in on the other. That's how close I was to the guy and he never realized I was there.

I had the pictures developed at the 1 hour place, DS identified the man and the car, and we all went to the police station to file a report. Surprise of all Surprises, he had big old rap sheet for minor crimes. The interviewing officer even showed us the cell where the perv had spent time after being arrested.

The cops knew him well. But, he hadn't actually touched DS and in the case with the women at the car wash, as far as I know, nothing ever came of that. He wasn't charged with any crime in our case, but IIRC, they did place a note in his file.

my road rage story:

Aug 17 2004, 12:35 AM :

Somedays I wonder how I get myself into such trouble....

As I'm driving to my business law class tonight, I'm doing 70-75 on the Highway....A car pulls behind me with 4 asians in it....they ride my ass bumper to bumper, and I get annoyed real fast...I hammer the horn and speed up....they stay on my ass....I slowed way down and waved them past....they slowed down and stayed on my ass.... I sped up and they sped up,,,,,,finally they blow past me and suddenly cut right in front of my car and slow way down.....traffic is honking...and passing them.....I try to pass them, and they swerve in front of me......we repeat this game 3-4 times and they let me pass..... now I speed up big time so I can avoid these nuts....they speed up and try to pass me....and I use another car to block them off....finally they do roar past me again...flicking me off and honking

They cut in front of me again and slow way down....blocking traffic.....I stop completely...getting worried now....They stop completely....traffics backing up.... I try going forward...they cut in front of me.......repeat this 2-3 times again, and they suddenly pull in the middle of a busy highway (rush hour mind you) and litterly park sideways blocking the traffic.... they're yelling and daring me to drive up by them.....other cars are driving in the ditch sides to get by them....I try and they cut me off....finally a van reates an opening and I get by.....they race ahead and cut the van off......we head up an on ramp......they let the Van drive by......now they pull to the side and wave me over....I said **** that and tried driving by.....they cut me off again....cars are lined up on the onramp behind us....12-15 deep.....I'm stuck 20 feet behind 4 punks who keep screaming obscenities at me and won't let anyone pass.....I'm thinking...pop the trunk and grab the tire iron.....I need a weapon....They get out of the car and start toward me...swearing....I get half out of the car...and say "I just didn't like you riding my ass...I don't want no trouble....then quickly dipped back in the car.....when they saw me in my potential 2 ton weapon...they kept swearing and flicking me off ....but they retreated to their car and finally roared off...... That may have been 20 of the freakiest minutes of my life, as i was honestly expecting them to have knifes or guns, or something an royally **** me up.....

Had i had some one with me, I'd fought'em I think, but 4 on 1 didn't sound so appealing....

Wow, at first I thought this was going to be a swoop and squat operation.

Why do you think they targeted you? Were you unknowingly sporting the colors of their rival gang?

Do you think it could have been motivated by your race?

Did they mistake your car for someone that they knew and wanted to get revenge on?

What a freaky road rage. I wonder why you were targeted. It's just bizarre that they went through so much trouble to go after some random guy. I was thinking maybe it was mistaken identity, but if it was daytime and they clearly saw your face, then what the heck?

Did your license plate say 49R HUGS? :P

Why do you think they targeted you? You know, some people target peopkle for no reason, just to get their jollies. One time I was driving somewhere and hubby was my passenger. Some guy pulled up, honked and gave us the finger and was pointing at his head and mouthing the words "THINK!" at me. Then he exited off a ramp. I have no idea what the problem was. I signal, drive in the right lane (I do NOT drive 35 mph in the left lane on the freeway as as many people in my state do.) I even said to my hubby - I wonder what that was about? He had no idea. Maybe it was a perceived slight, I don't know. Maybe he thought only men should do the driving, I don't know.

But my plates don't say "Viking Hugs" or anything similar.:lol:

A friend of mine just had a weird thing happen like that to him on the highway. A car with 3 late teens/early 20s kids followed him 40 miles to work, he noticed the were following him, he was taking exits and getting back on, they followed him, followed him through a whole cloverleaf!! It was crazy. Then after all this for 40 miles they eventually just went their own way. I don't know if they thought he was someone else or what, but he was really freaked out.

As for WTF moments on Unsolved, I have to agree with the Liz Carmichael one. I thought it was weird during the recreation that anyone would really not think it was a man, but thought I'd give these people the benefit of the doubt. Then when I saw the actual "Liz" I just about peed my pants laughing. I'd love to hear the thoughts that went through these people's minds. I mean did they think "she's smart but that is one uuuuuugly chick"? lol

As for WTF moments on Unsolved, I have to agree with the Liz Carmichael one. I thought it was weird during the recreation that anyone would really not think it was a man, but thought I'd give these people the benefit of the doubt. Then when I saw the actual "Liz" I just about peed my pants laughing. I'd love to hear the thoughts that went through these people's minds. I mean did they think "she's smart but that is one uuuuuugly chick"? lol I may not remember all the details on the Liz Carmichael one, but I thought some of the people didn't really care that Liz was a bit of an odd duck and didn't care if she was a man or a woman.

And in liz carmichael's case, I wonder about those bone heads that said they'd stand right with her if she ever wanted to start the business up again, and that the Dale was a viable car that they'd like to see get back in production.

Where are those idiots now? Are they now the execs from the big 3 car companies who recently flew on separate private jets, at the expense of tens of thousands of dollars each, to go beg congress for a taxpayer funded bailout?

Just wonderin, because that was definitely a WTH moment when the one guy said that a three legged car held together with duct tape and two by fours should go back into production. Those types usually end up in upper management...

One of my WTF moments came with the Sal Guardado case. A week and you're engaged? Oh, Sally....

Another WTF moments is in the Dennis DePue update...apparently he kept the same van that had been coated with Marilyn's blood?!?

And in liz carmichael's case, I wonder about those bone heads that said they'd stand right with her if she ever wanted to start the business up again, and that the Dale was a viable car that they'd like to see get back in production.

Where are those idiots now? Are they now the execs from the big 3 car companies who recently flew on separate private jets, at the expense of tens of thousands of dollars each, to go beg congress for a taxpayer funded bailout?

I can't verify this for certain, but I believe there are some employees from 20th Century Car, were working on the Electric Car. And that a couple of those employees are working on Hybrids for GM.

I think they were profiled in the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car?"
http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com/about

Anyone verify that?

My biggest WTF moment? Reading the sensitive part of the letter sent by Nyleen Kay Marshall's abductor. Just WTF...

Runner-ups would be :

- "Sam"'s Compsoite Sketch in Beverly McGowan's case. Where they really trying to find him or scare any possible witness away? Me thinks they should have fired the drawer. :eek:

- The couple hearing Crystal Spencer's high-pitch screams through the wall of their bedroom, and no doing anything about it and almost brag about it when interviewed. Way to show what brave citizens you are. *facepalm*

The biggest "What The?" moment happend for me today when I was reviewing the Dick Hansen murder segment.

Jean and Dick have been chased all over town in their cars by a murderer who changes lanes when they do, stops when they do, turns when they do, and parks behind them every time the park somewhere.

When they finally pull over after being chased for 10 miles on the expressway, she was shocked that the killer didn't "wave" at them as he drove by, but actually pulled in and parked behind them. Again!

Duh.


Seriously! I mean, his behavior was so innocent and playful up until that point, of course you'd think he was just going to laugh and drive on by!

My cruddy little car at the time, with probably a simple t-shirt. Too this day I have no idea.

On top of my What the ... moments is when Chad Noe's decision to divorce Wendy Camp after she was diagnosed with MS.

Uhm, yeah. Really speaks to one's character, to leave your spouse after they've received a devastating diagnosis like that. :rolleyes:

... and yet, it still manages to go downhill from there. WTF moments? That segment has plenty of those.

I have a couple what the...moments.

The first one involved the murder of Camilla/Cam Lyman. How could they not figure the guy who killed her was her assistant? I mean...He never reported her missing...he kept depositing the checks into a checking account that I'm assuming was his because otherwise he could have just used that money to keep Camilla's/Cams place up while she was "gone." Then the guy starts showing Camilla's/Cams dogs as his own...what does it take for those police to get a clue and really do some investigating? I know this case is getting old and all...but really...those police have to be idiots!

My second moment is really just to mention the horror that was the death of Megan Curl. Who the hell can do such a thing?

Third...what the...They basically let that cop get off scott free with the murder of the 2 prostitutes in the Bordello Murder segment. And also..wasn't that lawyer kind of sleazy?

And last...I'm just amazed and say what the...at how some of the psychics do their psychic thing. It just amazes me...I just wish all of the cases could be solved...

On top of my What the ... moments is when Chad Noe's decision to divorce Wendy Camp after she was diagnosed with MS.

Uhm, yeah. Really speaks to one's character, to leave your spouse after they've received a devastating diagnosis like that. :rolleyes:

... and yet, it still manages to go downhill from there. WTF moments? That segment has plenty of those.

And when Chad first said "It would be better to have only kid to take care of, rather than two" I thought the second kid he was talking about was Wendy! Then I realized it was Wendy's daughter from her first marriage. Still, you could of taken care of her too, Chad, and I bet she would have been a good helper. But no, you had to divorce her and then have her killed.

Class act.

The Lester Garnier suspect sketches. Not only was the first one (gleaned from a witness under hypnosis) probably one of the worst sketches in all of UM history (and I thought the Boston Mall Rapist and Wadada took the cake), but the second one was a totally non-descript rendering of a woman's back---just the back of her head, her shoulders, etc. About the only thing one could gather from it was that the woman was dressed in a skirt suit and high heels and had long hair. Which could've accounted for thousands of women throughout that city. I never understood that at all.

And when Chad first said "It would be better to have only kid to take care of, rather than two" I thought the second kid he was talking about was Wendy! Then I realized it was Wendy's daughter from her first marriage. Still, you could of taken care of her too, Chad, and I bet she would have been a good helper. But no, you had to divorce her and then have her killed.

Class act.

I always thought the second child he referred to was himself.

The Lester Garnier suspect sketches. Not only was the first one (gleaned from a witness under hypnosis) probably one of the worst sketches in all of UM history (and I thought the Boston Mall Rapist and Wadada took the cake), but the second one was a totally non-descript rendering of a woman's back---just the back of her head, her shoulders, etc. About the only thing one could gather from it was that the woman was dressed in a skirt suit and high heels and had long hair. Which could've accounted for thousands of women throughout that city. I never understood that at all.

At least Wadada's sketch was descriptive enough to be able to recognize the suspect, especially with his hand problem. The female suspect in Garnier's case and the Boston Mall Rapist ones were ridiculous.

Just thought of another. Why did no one seem to think it was really suspicious that Bill Roberts wanted to park Neil Jennings' truck behind buildings all throughout Odessa, TX?

Just thought of another. Why did no one seem to think it was really suspicious that Bill Roberts wanted to park Neil Jennings' truck behind buildings all throughout Odessa, TX?

I was thinking about that too.

Neil Jennings- without a doubt the most dumbest criminal to appear in Unsolved Mysteries. :rolleyes:

Neil Jennings- without a doubt the most dumbest criminal to appear in Unsolved Mysteries. :rolleyes:

I don't know.... UM seems to have an abundance of contenders for the Dumbest Criminal title. lol

I was thinking about that too.

Neil Jennings- without a doubt the most dumbest criminal to appear in Unsolved Mysteries. :rolleyes:

A slight correction. Neil Jennings was the victim. The criminal was "Bill Roberts" although it's probably a false name. I can't recall if he was ever captured or positively identified.

A slight correction. Neil Jennings was the victim. The criminal was "Bill Roberts" although it's probably a false name. I can't recall if he was ever captured or positively identified.

Your right. It was Bill Roberts, I believe he was captured.

His name is William Harrison Blackwell.

THE LONE STAR FUGITIVE TASK FORCE ARRESTS WILLIAM HARRISON BLACKWELL

Lone Star Fugitive Task Force LogoSan Antonio – William Harrison Blackwell had changed his name, changed his look, changed his friends, and relocated after the 1988 murder in Ector County, Texas. All his efforts to avoid justice were ended yesterday at approximately 4:30 PM when the Lone Star Fugitive Task Force arrested Blackwell outside the Universal City apartment complex in which he was staying.

Blackwell had assumed the identity of “John Downey,” acquiring credit cards and a Colorado driver’s license under his new name. A friend of over ten years who was present at the time of Blackwell’s arrest said that they had only known the fugitive as John Downey. A second acquaintance asked the pertinent question, “Well, who is John Downey?”

The real John Downey is a convicted felon. In 2006, under the alias of “John Downey,” Blackwell was arrested in North Carolina for possession of a firearm by a convicted felon. At the time of the arrest, Blackwell was accused of having 7 shotguns, 3 rifles, and 4 handguns in his possession. Blackwell, who gave the name “John Downey” at the time of his arrest, received bond before a check of his fingerprints revealed that it was not John Downey whom they had arrested, but William Harrison Blackwell, a fugitive wanted for a 1998 murder in the Odessa, Texas area.

The Ector County Sheriff’s Office requested the assistance of the Lone Star Fugitive Task Force in apprehending Blackwell. The Midland Division of Lone Star Fugitive Task Force was able to track Blackwell to a Universal City apartment complex. The Lone Star Fugitive Task Force in San Antonio established surveillance at the Palisades Park apartment complex located on Pat Booker Road. A man now wearing a full beard, longer hair, and about twenty years older than the time of the murder walked out of an apartment. Lone Star Fugitive Task Force Officers and Officers from the Universal City Police Department arrested Blackwell without incident. After initially claiming to be “John Downey,” the fugitive recanted and admitted to being William Harrison Blackwell.


Blackwell is currently being housed at the Bexar County Jail awaiting extradition back to Ector County.

United States Marshal for the Western District of Texas LaFayette Collins said, “The Lone Star Fugitive Task Force will not stop pursuing a fugitive until they face justice. The teamwork demonstrated by the law enforcement agencies in both Texas and North Carolina led to the end of Blackwell’s 19 year run from justice.”

Participating Agencies:
United States Marshals Service-Midland Division
United States Marshals Service-San Antonio Division
Ector County Sheriff’ Office
Universal City Police Department
Comal County Sheriff’s Department
Bexar County Sheriff’s Office

One of the funniest episodes I seen was the chair of death. They let alot of humor out on that segment. Like when they showed the guy rapping the rope around his neck in slow motion with funny faces. Especially with all the goofy music. :lol:

"the pubs owner finally moved the chair into the basement.....out of harms way....."or so he thought" :lol:

One of the funniest episodes I seen was the chair of death. They let alot of humor out on that segment. Like when they showed the guy rapping the rope around his neck in slow motion with funny faces. Especially with all the goofy music.

"the pubs owner finally moved the chair into the basement.....out of harms way....."or so he thought"

Even Stack was having fun with that episode.

I don;t mind that episode as opposed to the stupid aphrodisiac episode.

UM can have a little fun every know and then.

Even Stack was having fun with that episode.

I don;t mind that episode as opposed to the stupid aphrodisiac episode.

UM can have a little fun every know and then.

At least the chair of death was about things that actually happened instead of junk anyone could make up.

The cop in Oregon cant remember his name he shot his son in the forest and made up a pack of lies about his daugther seeing someone kidnap him turned out later the dad had killed the kid and only ended up getting minimal time for it.

The cop in Oregon cant remember his name he shot his son in the forest and made up a pack of lies about his daugther seeing someone kidnap him turned out later the dad had killed the kid and only ended up getting minimal time for it.

That was Larry Gibson. He received something like three and a half years for secondary manslaughter, if I remember correctly. I actually usually skip over that segment when I'm watching my DVDs because it makes me so sick.

Re: Larry Gibson, I always wondered what the contents of the "Spot in the Road" letters were and who wrote them. Any theories?

Re: Larry Gibson, I always wondered what the contents of the "Spot in the Road" letters were and who wrote them. Any theories?

I've always wondered that too. I sort of keep coming back to two rough theories:

A. "Spot in the Road" is someone who had some sort of physical vantage point, either near the Gibson home or some other area important to the case (as perhaps indicated by the pseudonym) and actually wrote on what he/she saw that particular day, or

B. "Spot in the Road" is a relative of the Gibsons or a close family friend, who knew Larry well enough to know of his violent, explosive tendencies, and suspected they may have played a role in Tommy's disappearance/murder.

Other than that, I have no idea.

That was Larry Gibson. He received something like three and a half years for secondary manslaughter, if I remember correctly. I actually usually skip over that segment when I'm watching my DVDs because it makes me so sick.

Thanks! I couldnt remember the name I remembered everything else about him,the cop that was investigating him seemed to be on the ball.Just hope it wasnt a Cop buddy buddy system that got him a slap on the wrist, lieing to the police thats a crime right their.

that guy has a few screws loose because to this day he says he still didn't kill him, there's a website that shows the kids picture

"do you know what happened to my son"

yeah, you killed him.

Some big moments for me:

The prosecutor who was successful in sending off to jail the poor guy who was obviously at home watching Battlestar Galacta while some other guy robs a convenience store who then changes his mind and offers up this little nugget, (paraphrasing) "I think this is one of those deals where we'll never really know what actually happened" WHAT THE ****!!? That's called "reasonable doubt" ****forbrains. You don't take away people's freedom for years on end if it exists.

Dennis Keith Smith murders his own sister and then his folks let him move back into their house...to cohabitate with teh son of the sister he killed. WHAT THE ****!!? Now maybe its obvious by the way Dennis Keith turned out they were never going to when "Grammy & Grampy of the Year" awards, but come on now! Also in that segment, Carolyn Killaby's husband must feel like a grade "AA" scumbag. I mean you and your wife are having problems and you promise to meet together after work that night to work things out...yet you decide instead to go over to your brother's house and get so drunk you can't come home and then call at about 1:00am to inform your wife. WHAT THE ****!!? Yeah no wonder you and your wife were having problems.

Corky reminded me of this one in one of his hilarious PM's to me years back. I had always thought it was weird, but i've only seen this segment once and kind of forgot about it.

the segment where the guy died in church after ingesting cyanide tablets: the old lady, upon finding the guy, and not knowing if he's dead or alive or needs help at this point, decides that the best thing she can do in this circumstance is to kick his head.

uh, geez lady, would you mind not kicking somebody in the head while you're in church? :lol:

The part in the Marie Hilley segment where she pretened to be a twin was definitely a "what the " moment.

The part in the Marie Hilley segment where she pretened to be a twin was definitely a "what the " moment.

I always wondered about the boyfriend -- either he was fine with successively dating twins, or he just accepted the fact that Marie/Robbie felt the need to spin grandiose tales and went along with it.

I always wondered about the boyfriend -- either he was fine with successively dating twins, or he just accepted the fact that Marie/Robbie felt the need to spin grandiose tales and went along with it.

I wondered about that too. Maybe he believed in her in the beginning. But maybe he was just happy to have someone in relationship with.

I think the biggest moment in Unsolved Mysteries history was after investigating the 'Rainboy' series concerning Donnie Decker the nine member investigating team got up in their motel rooms only to discover 2 inches of water on their motel room floors...without explanation. All nine of them team members had the experience but no one else in the motel had a wet floor. Wow. (C4).

How about the parole board in North Carolina granting James Donald King an early parole from his LIFE SENTENCE for FIRST DEGREE MURDER because he led an exemplary lifestyle while ON THE RUN. Most people would agree he was breaking the law the entire time he was on the run, but I digress. :mad:

Of course, he went on to get married again, and murdered the second wife too. This time he's on death row, so it doesn't look like he'll be paroled anytime soon. :rant:

Any story in which a bystander claims to have seen a missing person and they say something like: 'She looked scared, and like she didn't belong in the car with them. I didn't think anything of it at the time.' and its variations. Er, apparently you did.

*faceplam*

Any story in which a bystander claims to have seen a missing person and they say something like: 'She looked scared, and like she didn't belong in the car with them. I didn't think anything of it at the time.' and its variations. Er, apparently you did.

*faceplam*

Wanda Jean Mays.


While we're on that, I wonder how many times something to that effect has been said on UM: "He/She didn't look like he/she belonged with them"? And what constitutes not looking like you belong with someone, exactly? Simply appearing decently maintained in the company of disheveled individuals? I'm just curious; I know I've heard that multiple times on UM.

Wanda Jean Mays.


While we're on that, I wonder how many times something to that effect has been said on UM: "He/She didn't look like he/she belonged with them"? And what constitutes not looking like you belong with someone, exactly? Simply appearing decently maintained in the company of disheveled individuals? I'm just curious; I know I've heard that multiple times on UM.

It's just that feeling you get, and then you turn to your mother and say "We've got a winner here".

It's just that feeling you get, and then you turn to your mother and say "We've got a winner here".

:lol:

I just thought of one watching the Joffree Ramos segment - the marine who was senselessly beaten by some gang members at a party.

Don't get me wrong, it's horrible what happened to the guy (especially when they interviewed him on camera and you could tell how hurt and confused he was and still suffering), and I'm not downplaying that at all. But did anyone think it was a little weird how he left his wallet in the backyard? He and his friends started to leave when he went back to get it, which is when he was attacked.

Why did he leave it there in the first place? Personally I'd never take it out of my pocket especially if I'm in a place where I don't know some people (or in "public" at all), and even if he did realize that, I'd rather get out with my safety than go back for it.

It's even sadder to think he WOULD have gotten away without any harm if he'd had it on him. :(

I just thought of one watching the Joffree Ramos segment - the marine who was senselessly beaten by some gang members at a party. But did anyone think it was a little weird how he left his wallet in the backyard? He and his friends started to leave when he went back to get it, which is when he was attacked. Why did he leave it there in the first place?

Good question. Were they playing poker at this party and he set his wallet out for easy access to his money? Did he spend time with a girl at the party and he had taken a condom from his wallet but forgot to put it back in his pocket when he got dressed? Was he pick-pocketed and realized it as they left, then went back to confront the guys and get his wallet back?

^ Yeah Tracy, I'm sure there's something they left out, probably because it wasn't important to the story (only a handful of geeks like me will actually care about that stuff, lol). I'd say all those are possibilities, or maybe it was just for comfort.. like if he was doing something in the backyard and forgot about it until he was leaving the first time.

The segment about the interacial couple where the family of the girl has her placed in a juvenile institution for "not obeying their rules" even thought she was OVER 18! And she got sentenced to three YEARS and was forced to give her baby up to reduce time! What kind of bull is that?!

The Massage Parlor case when random people were inside and running around the crime scene- older people, too. I mean, come on, you may be curious but I wouldn't walk onto the scene where evidence can be compromised.

The obese kidnapper who had to have a note- what's classic is that they called it a "cheatsheet".

The Utterback case, where a man stalked his young ex-girlfriend. When he pulled up alongside her, I wasn't surprised but then he just randomly pulled out a gun and started shooting! And this all the while proclaiming that he loved her and just wanted to get back together. Apparently he was just doing it to scare her into pulling over, but jeez! What if he had hit her? Very disturbing.

The Utterback case, where a man stalked his young ex-girlfriend. When he pulled up alongside her, I wasn't surprised but then he just randomly pulled out a gun and started shooting! And this all the while proclaiming that he loved her and just wanted to get back together. Apparently he was just doing it to scare her into pulling over, but jeez! What if he had hit her? Very disturbing.

Even more bizarre are the posts here by people who knew Utterback defending this exact type of behavior. Do a search on his name and you'll see what I mean.

The segment about the interacial couple where the family of the girl has her placed in a juvenile institution for "not obeying their rules" even thought she was OVER 18! And she got sentenced to three YEARS and was forced to give her baby up to reduce time! What kind of bull is that?!

The Massage Parlor case when random people were inside and running around the crime scene- older people, too. I mean, come on, you may be curious but I wouldn't walk onto the scene where evidence can be compromised.

The obese kidnapper who had to have a note- what's classic is that they called it a "cheatsheet".

Oh yeah, I have that one taped (I haven't seen it discussed on here much, probably because it was solved) and always thought the same thing! Eleanor Platt - I get the feeling she just had rigid, old fashioned parents, even for 50s standards... but you're right, that makes no sense.

Once she was 18, even if she was young, she was legally an adult so they didn't have any grounds to say she couldn't be with John or had to "follow their rules". I'm surprised the courts went along with it, but it was probably a combination of the horribly racist and sexist attitudes of the time, not to mention he was 10 or 11 years older than her. Her dad seemed like the kind of guy you wouldn't wanna cross either!

It's horrible what happened to her being forced to give the baby up too, I'm guessing the system just took advantage of the fact that she was a young woman (and probably disapproved of the relationship with a black guy), people didn't seem to question it as much in those days either.

I always thought the case about the guy (Hotard was his last name I think) and the woman who were in a car making love when they were both shot to death by some evil bumpkin with a shotgun always confused me when they interviewed the bumpkin's daughter. She was basically like, "Yeah my parents were evil...and my dad killed them." She wasn't really non-chalant about it or anything, just kind of weird to hear someone say that about their parents.

Even more bizarre are the posts here by people who knew Utterback defending this exact type of behavior. Do a search on his name and you'll see what I mean.

I did see that and was pretty disturbed. They tried to say that UM exaggerated things, but I highly doubt they just added in the gun for dramatics :rolleyes: I was also freaked out when he started driving away with the door open and making her hang out of the car (and he was going pretty fast!) That would be a terrifying experience. People are inclined to defend their friends, but if one of my friends stalked someone aggressively, knocked them off the road, shot at them, and basically kidnapped them- there would be no way to defend it. They're probably in shock/denial, not wanting to believe it of someone they cared about.

Oh yeah, I have that one taped (I haven't seen it discussed on here much, probably because it was solved) and always thought the same thing! Eleanor Platt - I get the feeling she just had rigid, old fashioned parents, even for 50s standards... but you're right, that makes no sense.

Once she was 18, even if she was young, she was legally an adult so they didn't have any grounds to say she couldn't be with John or had to "follow their rules". I'm surprised the courts went along with it, but it was probably a combination of the horribly racist and sexist attitudes of the time, not to mention he was 10 or 11 years older than her. Her dad seemed like the kind of guy you wouldn't wanna cross either!

It's horrible what happened to her being forced to give the baby up too, I'm guessing the system just took advantage of the fact that she was a young woman (and probably disapproved of the relationship with a black guy), people didn't seem to question it as much in those days either.

Oh, that father was definitely scary! You can't really argue with someone who has a shotgun in hand! I agree that the system definitely took advantage, perpetuating the general discrimination at the time. It's scary to think of just how violent some people were (and probably still are) against interracial relationships.

For me a WTH?? moment is any dangerous convicted criminal being released early from Jail or put into a Low security Prison only to escape and re-offend.

2 Cases come to mind:

Ricardo Caputo - This monster brutually murders his Girlfriend in 1970. Three years later he's released with the help of his Female Prison Social Worker named Judy who just happens to become Victim #2. He then goes on to kill 2 more Women in San Francisco & Mexico before eventually turning himself in years later.

Laura Burbank's Killer - Yet another dangerous monster, gets placed in a low security prison and makes a run for it. While on the run several young girls have been kidnapped presumed killed. He's back behind bars now but it's a little too late for the families of these victims. :confused: :confused:

Not sure if it is mentioned but Greg Webb getting released.

The re-enactment of the Brad Bishop case saying he killed his family at 7PM? He had a 14 year old, 10 and 5 year old son. My 4 year old nephew stays up later than they did.

Joe Maloney escaping from a mental institution after he killed his wife then being released from an Ireland jail because of an extradition treaty between Ireland and USA being void then probably disappearing forever

The Larry George segment(the detective even said "this murder was stupid").

Not sure if it is mentioned but Greg Webb getting released.

The re-enactment of the Brad Bishop case saying he killed his family at 7PM? He had a 14 year old, 10 and 5 year old son. My 4 year old nephew stays up later than they did.

Joe Maloney escaping from a mental institution after he killed his wife then being released from an Ireland jail because of an extradition treaty between Ireland and USA being void then probably disappearing forever

The Larry George segment(the detective even said "this murder was stupid").

I don't remember Joe Maloney, please refresh my memory.

I don't remember Joe Maloney, please refresh my memory.


Joe Maloney poisoned and killed his wife in 1967 but when taken to court he said he was insane so they kept him at a mental institution but he escaped and then 10 years later(give or take) he was living in Ireland and reported a burglary at his house and the cops wanted to check his finger prints and they discovered he was wanted in the USA but they never had an extradition treaty but he was being held in an Irish jail but then something was void between the Ireland and USA agreement so he walked out of an Irish jail because they couldn't hold him and he hasn't been seen since. This was 1986 I believe

1.) Liz Carmichael - The people that worked for her were "so committed" to the Dale that they wanted to go on even after Liz and build it. Folks, the car did not, would not, and will not ever exist. Seem hard to believe a car can get 70 MPG and be crash resistant for $3000? Hell, yes -- cause it ain't possible!

With promises like that I would have followed her plan like a puppy dog too!

Sure was an amazing plan, a little like John Delorean - and just think without him we wouldn't have Back to the Future!

Here's a WTF for you... wasn't shown on UM, but it's James Donald King... looking for a PenPal. Hmmm.....

http://todesstrafe-usa.de/friends/voices_nc_king.htm

Here's a WTF for you... wasn't shown on UM, but it's James Donald King... looking for a PenPal. Hmmm.....

http://todesstrafe-usa.de/friends/voices_nc_king.htm


BAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Is he for real? That picture had to have been taken 30 years ago! And that man is NOT 32 years old. I like that he asks for money outright...brazen man with brazen words, I suppose.

How about Joe Sheppard burying a murdered girl on his own property?

During the Don Henry and Kevin Ives story when the mysterious man in military fatigues was approached by a police car and randomly fired his weapon and ran off into the darkness.

I just saw the Scott Rossiter "Special Alert" segment. Definitely a collection of "what the..." moments for me--Rossiter, a police officer, being murdered with his own weapon in the parking lot of the police station....the opening video footage in the update, with Scott O'Neil's (Rossiter's killer) body in a bag being loaded into the back of what I assume is the coroner's vehicle...and RS stating at the end that police will probably never really figure out the details of O'Neil's death. :eek: Really wasn't expecting that at all. Kind of freaked me out.

The following is a recent "What the . . " reference in my observations re the L'Enfant segment:

The L'Enfant episode featured one of the best WTF moments in UM history. The victim is in a behavioral/mental health unit somewhere attempting to maintain his sanity after the onslaught of anonymous calls from L'Enfant. He walks up to the duty nurse and asks her if he received any messages, and she responds, "L'Enfant called twice, and ..." WTF! Nurse do you mind not telling the patient that the person whose terrorized him and possibly kidnapped him and his son is still trying to contact him?!? And BTW, can we please run a trace at least once out of the 1,112 times he calls?

HA! :lol:
Yeah, that was funny. And after the nurse told him that L'Enfant called twice, he gives a blank look off to the distance and walks morosely down the hall.

L'Enfant was pretty bizarre, but the most unpredicted was the episode where the woman was watching UM when the killer being profiled was using her bathroom. She called the police and the case was updated the next airing.

BAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Is he for real? That picture had to have been taken 30 years ago! And that man is NOT 32 years old. I like that he asks for money outright...brazen man with brazen words, I suppose.

He was 32 in 1976! And he wants to meet a white german woman who loves to talk about history and personal things? How random.

And this is my personal favorite: "I also would hope that she would be able to help me out financially sometimes, because my family is very, very poor."

Helping support the man who murdered both of his wives. It's every woman's dream! I'm surprised he doesn't have a waiting list. :rolleyes:

Only germans? Discriminatory much??

Oh James Donald King... you so cray-zay


Anyway, my "What the--!??!" List (off the top of my head")

Finding out that Alfredo R. Prieto for responsible for not one, but two cases featured on UM: Veronica Jefferson and Rachael Raver & Warren H. Fulton III

Also finding out (fairly recently) that the Kathy Bonderson case had been
solved. I always kinda found it odd how UM never interviewed her husband...

The entire Monica Rizzo Case but especially when her husband said something along the lines of "I got mad and proceeded to beat up the house.. the house won... huh huh" Why the hell would anyone even mention that and start laughing, given the situation?

The Eric Tamiyasu Case - Look, I'm not an investigator or cop, but one thing I do know is, when you're at a crime scene, DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING!!! And more importantly, DON'T BURN ANYTHING!!!!



Other "WTF" moments from UM include:

When Gabriel "Caradoc" Carrillo mentioned: “If I wanted to murder somebody, the last person I would murder would be somebody who was staying at my house and whose father knew that he was staying in my house."

(Oh it's not like a statement like that is incriminating or anything)

It's been mentioned on another thread before but Paul Pollis' note:

"I love my wife and would never do anything to harm her intentionally."

and then he gives this golden statement:

"People were driving in front of the house non-stop. They didn't come by to give me a hug or pat on the back and say we're with you. They just came by to look."

(Would someone give this guy a damn hug already?)

And of course everyone's (least?) favorite weirdo - Michael Anderson, especially when he said:

"She was the type of daughter that you just enjoy"

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but... eeewww

Y'know, before I found out that Cindy my have been very well murdered by drug traffickers, I figured she may have just left home to get away from her Dad, 'cause he's kind of a freak.

With promises like that I would have followed her plan like a puppy dog too!

Sure was an amazing plan, a little like John Delorean - and just think without him we wouldn't have Back to the Future!

I had a flash of Back to the Future but with the Dale instead of a DeLorean.

:rofl:

Oh James Donald King... you so cray-zay


Anyway, my "What the--!??!" List (off the top of my head")

Finding out that Alfredo R. Prieto for responsible for not one, but two cases featured on UM: Veronica Jefferson and Rachael Raver & Warren H. Fulton III

Also finding out (fairly recently) that the Kathy Bonderson case had been
solved. I always kinda found it odd how UM never interviewed her husband...

The entire Monica Rizzo Case but especially when her husband said something along the lines of "I got mad and proceeded to beat up the house.. the house won... huh huh" Why the hell would anyone even mention that and start laughing, given the situation?

The Eric Tamiyasu Case - Look, I'm not an investigator or cop, but one thing I do know is, when you're at a crime scene, DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING!!! And more importantly, DON'T BURN ANYTHING!!!!



Other "WTF" moments from UM include:

When Gabriel "Caradoc" Carrillo mentioned: “If I wanted to murder somebody, the last person I would murder would be somebody who was staying at my house and whose father knew that he was staying in my house."

(Oh it's not like a statement like that is incriminating or anything)

It's been mentioned on another thread before but Paul Pollis' note:

"I love my wife and would never do anything to harm her intentionally."

and then he gives this golden statement:

"People were driving in front of the house non-stop. They didn't come by to give me a hug or pat on the back and say we're with you. They just came by to look."

(Would someone give this guy a damn hug already?)

And of course everyone's (least?) favorite weirdo - Michael Anderson, especially when he said:

"She was the type of daughter that you just enjoy"

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but... eeewww

Y'know, before I found out that Cindy my have been very well murdered by drug traffickers, I figured she may have just left home to get away from her Dad, 'cause he's kind of a freak.


I started chuckling at that James Donald King comment, then spit out my Coke laughing when I got to Paul Pollis.

I had a flash of Back to the Future but with the Dale instead of a DeLorean.

:rofl:

And THAT had me rolling. :lol:

I may have already mentioned this but this one always got a "WT!!?!?!" out of me:

Man: Hey, how you doing?
Then the criminal (Mulet, I believe) shoots at him. The man wasn't hit, but geez that's scary!

In one segment, when a guy jumps out of a car and tries to grab a girl. She was able to break away, but it was still so random and creepy when he popped out. Can you imagine just walking down the street and that happening?

Nancy Salem rushes home becuase she thinks her daughter Shafaa has been kidnapped by her violent, estranged husband (which she has been), but stops to go get the luggage out of the trunk of her friend's car first.

what the....?

Tom Dixon, who possibly may have been responsible for the disappearance and murder of Gary Simmons, visits a junkyard and asks for them to get rid of his car. After being told that they can only flatten his car, Dixon asks for advice on how to completely get rid of it. Without hesitation and without displaying any suspicion whatsoever, the junkyard guy simply says: "Put a brick on the accelerator and drive it straight into the Missouri river!".

What the... :confused:

After all the atrocious lies and deceit Jack Lutter put his wives through, I was absolutely astonished that NONE of them made a move to turn him into the authorities. I seem to recall his wife Caroline making some comment about how his excuse for his month-long absence was that he was held in a Cuban prison and managed to gain release :rolleyes: (which she did admit that she didn't believe at all). Then, when he finally comes back, and after she confronts him, and after he ADMITS to what he's actually been doing, she allows him to spend the weekend with her! :eek:

To each her own, but if the man I was married to turned out to be asinine and deceitful enough to commit such an act as that, there isn't a way in all hell he would be wiling his hours away with me over a weekend.

After all the atrocious lies and deceit Jack Lutter put his wives through, I was absolutely astonished that NONE of them made a move to turn him into the authorities. I seem to recall his wife Caroline making some comment about how his excuse for his month-long absence was that he was held in a Cuban prison and managed to gain release :rolleyes: (which she did admit that she didn't believe at all). Then, when he finally comes back, and after she confronts him, and after he ADMITS to what he's actually been doing, she allows him to spend the weekend with her! :eek:

To each her own, but if the man I was married to turned out to be asinine and deceitful enough to commit such an act as that, there isn't a way in all hell he would be wiling his hours away with me over a weekend.

Yeah, unfortunately, I think the segment addressed the fact that a lot of these women came from male-dominated cultures and seemed to be raised with the mindset of always staying devoted to your husband, no matter what, even if he was the most deceitful liar imaginable. I have no doubt that Lutter probably took that into consideration when selecting his victims.

Just noticed that in the segment about Dan Marino and his home improvement scams, they show a newspaper ad his crew used to advertise his services and their contact number has the phoney 555 prefix! Of course, I'm sure UM probably recreated that newspaper ad from scratch and wanted to avoid using a real phone #, but it just seems amusingly appropriate that a group of con artists would be using a 555 number.

I can't remember if I posted on this thread already and I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this moment yet, but...

I always crack up at the same part of the Judy Olive segment. There is a reenactment of Judy meeting up with Ulysses Roberson after they have been apart for some time and she has given birth to his son. She introduces the baby as "Alexander". Ulysses looks at the baby and says "Alexander?...No, I don't think so...we'll call him...Salaam!" The actor's delivery here is just so nonchalant and he continues on like it's no huge thing that he just renamed the kid who he was meeting for the first time.

Did anyone else think that was wild? I mean, WTF?!?! Is that how it actually went down?

Tom Dixon, who possibly may have been responsible for the disappearance and murder of Gary Simmons, visits a junkyard and asks for them to get rid of his car. After being told that they can only flatten his car, Dixon asks for advice on how to completely get rid of it. Without hesitation and without displaying any suspicion whatsoever, the junkyard guy simply says: "Put a brick on the accelerator and drive it straight into the Missouri river!".

What the... :confused:


I don't mean to sound like a jerk but I've mentioned this before on the forum. It is a reenactment. The emotions, voice inflection, etc are not those of the real people. Perhaps the junkyard he visited in real life had a reputation because the guy running it was not , shall we say, "salt of the earth".

I don't mean to sound like a jerk but I've mentioned this before on the forum. It is a reenactment. The emotions, voice inflection, etc are not those of the real people. Perhaps the junkyard he visited in real life had a reputation because the guy running it was not , shall we say, "salt of the earth".

Oh, I realize that, but half the "WTF" moments in this thread are due to the reenactments and not the facts of the actual cases themselves. I just found it strange that they could make a scene with someone casually saying a line of dialogue like that and no one thought it looked silly or unbelievable.

Its been years so I don't remember specific names from any of the cases.....

I remember a case where a woman had been abducted by I believe her boyfriend who she had either already broken up with or had been attempting to end a relationship with...he went to excruciating lengths to abduct her and then make sure she could not get away for several days...then all of a sudden she asks him to use the bathroom at a restaurant when they're sitting there eating, the bathroom is behind him and she just gets up and walks out and leaves just like that...you'd figure after all that he'd at least follow her back there.

Another one which to this day drives me crazy was this case of this couple just being haunted by an apparent tormenter in and around their home...the entire thing started when the wife was knocked unconscious by a man who had come into the house one day asking to make a phone call, it then escalated to wierd notes and noises at all hours of the night in and outside the house...after months of this they had about 10 different people in and outside the house one night watching what was going on yet somehow this supposed person managed to still smash the side of the house making everyone jump out of their seats...I believed the 3 or 4 times I saw the episode that either the husband or someone in the family was behind it in some way and that the initial incident was likely just a coincidence and probably unrelated.

Its been years so I don't remember specific names from any of the cases.....

I remember a case where a woman had been abducted by I believe her boyfriend who she had either already broken up with or had been attempting to end a relationship with...he went to excruciating lengths to abduct her and then make sure she could not get away for several days...then all of a sudden she asks him to use the bathroom at a restaurant when they're sitting there eating, the bathroom is behind him and she just gets up and walks out and leaves just like that...you'd figure after all that he'd at least follow her back there.

Another one which to this day drives me crazy was this case of this couple just being haunted by an apparent tormenter in and around their home...the entire thing started when the wife was knocked unconscious by a man who had come into the house one day asking to make a phone call, it then escalated to wierd notes and noises at all hours of the night in and outside the house...after months of this they had about 10 different people in and outside the house one night watching what was going on yet somehow this supposed person managed to still smash the side of the house making everyone jump out of their seats...I believed the 3 or 4 times I saw the episode that either the husband or someone in the family was behind it in some way and that the initial incident was likely just a coincidence and probably unrelated.

I remember the first case you wrote of. That was definitely a WTF. The second case you wrote of is The Wackers. It's been WIDELY discussed on here (emphasis mine...lol). If you'd like to read about any of the specifics, just do a search...it's all over the place on here. Some of the arguments are fairly entertaining. Personally...I have no opinion on the matter. I wasn't there. Although I do concur that there are a LARGE amount of WTF moments and things that don't necessarily add up in that case...

I love this thread and want to revive it! I just saw the Johnny Lee Wilson segment again, and when they mentioned the billboard proclaiming his innocence, then RS says that the billboard was "fire bombed" by an unknown party! What on Earth? I've never heard of anyone doing that to a billboard before! Maybe vandalizing it, but damn that was surprising.

Okay, in the Tony Miller 150th solve case, is it just me or does the actor in the re-enactment who plays Joseph Clark, the criminal who confessed to the robbery, look like a white guy wearing blackface makeup?!

Anything that Chad Noe or his relatives said during the Wendy Camp segment was a WTF moment. From Ida saying Wendy was just bitchin the whole time to Chad saying he admitted to the murders in a drunken stupor. WTF!?

Just noticed that in the segment about Dan Marino and his home improvement scams, they show a newspaper ad his crew used to advertise his services and their contact number has the phoney 555 prefix! Of course, I'm sure UM probably recreated that newspaper ad from scratch and wanted to avoid using a real phone #, but it just seems amusingly appropriate that a group of con artists would be using a 555 number.

Dan Marino, the former NFL quarterback? WTF?! I thought he was better than that.....

Dan Marino, the former NFL quarterback? WTF?!

Not the same guy :lol:

Even more bizarre are the posts here by people who knew Utterback defending this exact type of behavior. Do a search on his name and you'll see what I mean.

But you know, he was a pretty cool guy because he had a mountain lion.

The fact that James Donald King got parole even though he killed his first wife. When you realize other criminals who haven't committed murder have been turned down for parole, it boggles the mind. :confused:

Okay, in the Tony Miller 150th solve case, is it just me or does the actor in the re-enactment who plays Joseph Clark, the criminal who confessed to the robbery, look like a white guy wearing blackface makeup?!

I'm watching it now and I'm almost positive it is! I knew I could get it confirmed by searching this forum. It's very obvious too, I am passively watching and noticed it.

I'm watching it now and I'm almost positive it is! I knew I could get it confirmed by searching this forum. It's very obvious too, I am passively watching and noticed it.

Lol, why would UM do that for a re-enactment?

Lol, why would UM do that for a re-enactment?

It's almost as if UM hired a black actor for the re-enactment who dropped out at the last second, so they had to improvise very quickly by putting makeup on the nearest white guy :lol:

It's almost as if UM hired a black actor for the re-enactment who dropped out at the last second, so they had to improvise very quickly by putting makeup on the nearest white guy :lol:

:lol: Probably.

Okay now I have to watch the segment.

Well? :p

Well? :p

Okay I had time this morning to watch it. All I can say is...

EL EM AY OH :lol:

Okay I had time this morning to watch it. All I can say is...

EL EM AY OH :lol:

I'm surprised more people haven't noticed. It's actually really funny, I believe I laughed out loud when I first saw it. :P I couldn't believe my eyes at first.

I just watched it. I'm glad Tony Miller finally got out after being in prison for 9 years.

As for the quick re-enactment with "Joseph Clark": lol! They couldn't delay shooting for an hour or something to find a real black guy? I felt like I was watching Robert Downey, Jr.'s character in "Tropic Thunder".

I just watched it. I'm glad Tony Miller finally got out after being in prison for 9 years.

As for the quick re-enactment with "Joseph Clark": lol! They couldn't delay shooting for an hour or something to find a real black guy? I felt like I was watching Robert Downey, Jr.'s character in "Tropic Thunder".

Yes! Although RDJ played a better black guy :p

Jeanine Nicarico segment: They do a re-enactment from the time in the mid 80's where the Illinois police try to trick Alejandro Hernandez and his friend into revealing details. You can see a Missing poster for Jaycee Dugard.

1. It would be several years yet before Jaycee would be kidnapped.

2. She disappeared in California, so it's probably unlikely that an Illinois Police Department would have her missing poster up there.

Jeanine Nicarico segment: They do a re-enactment from the time in the mid 80's where the Illinois police try to trick Alejandro Hernandez and his friend into revealing details. You can see a Missing poster for Jaycee Dugard.

1. It would be several years yet before Jaycee would be kidnapped.

2. She disappeared in California, so it's probably unlikely that an Illinois Police Department would have her missing poster up there.

That seems like something that is more of a "goof" than something that makes one say, "WTF?".....well I guess it could make you say that at first.

The Laura Burbank segment she was the young girl who met a 29 year old man (who looked older) in a pet store who told her he would teach her to train monkeys and then disappeared but when they went to his house to interview him they meet his 16 year old pregnent wife! and then she finds the girls underwear while doing the laundry!

Jeanine Nicarico segment: They do a re-enactment from the time in the mid 80's where the Illinois police try to trick Alejandro Hernandez and his friend into revealing details. You can see a Missing poster for Jaycee Dugard.

1. It would be several years yet before Jaycee would be kidnapped.

2. She disappeared in California, so it's probably unlikely that an Illinois Police Department would have her missing poster up there.


On a very similar note, I always loved the scene in the Michaela Garecht segment when Michaela's friend is sitting with the sketch artist, and the sketch of the suspect is already hanging on the wall behind them. I know they did it as an interesting way to introduce the sketch and get the picture of the suspect in your mind, but the discontinuity always throws me a bit.

I think it's more of a LOL than a WTF...

Woman: What are you shipping?
Man: Well... what does it say?
Woman: It says clothes.
Man: Yeah thats it... clothes..

Way to give yourself away ya goof! :lol:

I was watching the 90-minute Alcatraz special not too long ago and they did a brief segment where they profiled a couple of wanted prison escapees. RS mentioned a guy named Carl Alfred Eder who was convicted of murdering a woman and her four children, and then said he escaped after "walking away from a minimum security work detail".

WTF?! Why would a guy who murdered a mother and four children be on a minimum security work detail?!

This is a pretty horrible case and I'm surprised UM never did a full segment on it. Sadly, Carl Alfred Eder has still never been found since escaping in 1974:
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=55472

I was watching the 90-minute Alcatraz special not too long ago and they did a brief segment where they profiled a couple of wanted prison escapees. RS mentioned a guy named Carl Alfred Eder who was convicted of murdering a woman and her four children, and then said he escaped after "walking away from a minimum security work detail".

WTF?! Why would a guy who murdered a mother and four children be on a minimum security work detail?!

This is a pretty horrible case and I'm surprised UM never did a full segment on it. Sadly, Carl Alfred Eder has still never been found since escaping in 1974:
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=55472
Right a la David Harry Fisher. What's worse, I think he only served eight years total. WHAT.

Apologies if this Case has already been mentioned on this thread and I can't even remember the names of the Victims. The story of the 3 Teenagers who had that Car accident in 1992. 2 of them died and the 3rd survived but doesn't remember anything. I think the Boy's body was found several months later - The whole thing was very suss. Anyway my "What the?" moment for this story was when they stopped by one of the parents house that night prior to accident. The father asked what their plans were and one of them answered "Just Drinking and Driving around". DRINKING and Driving around!! and the Father let them go! Worst parenting ever! :confused: :confused:

I think it's more of a LOL than a WTF...

Woman: What are you shipping?
Man: Well... what does it say?
Woman: It says clothes.
Man: Yeah thats it... clothes..

Way to give yourself away ya goof! :lol:

I still don't quite understand how that justifies a search warrant. I thought people had constitutional rights in the USA but I may be wrong on that if that is all that is required to obtain a search warrant.

Apologies if this Case has already been mentioned on this thread and I can't even remember the names of the Victims. The story of the 3 Teenagers who had that Car accident in 1992. 2 of them died and the 3rd survived but doesn't remember anything. I think the Boy's body was found several months later - The whole thing was very suss. Anyway my "What the?" moment for this story was when they stopped by one of the parents house that night prior to accident. The father asked what their plans were and one of them answered "Just Drinking and Driving around". DRINKING and Driving around!! and the Father let them go! Worst parenting ever! :confused: :confused:

Yeah, that was the Arnold Archambeau/Ruby Bruguier case. The father of Tracy, the third girl in the car, was watching their baby, and when they all couple showed up to pick the child up, his response was pretty much:

"You've been drinking. Why don't you let the baby stay here, and then drive home and come pick her up tomorrow?"

So he was obviously concerned about letting a baby get into a car with an intoxicated driver, but didn't seem to have any problems with his own daughter being in the car :confused: .

I still don't quite understand how that justifies a search warrant. I thought people had constitutional rights in the USA but I may be wrong on that if that is all that is required to obtain a search warrant.

I am a US citizen, but I believe that such behavior can warrant a search. And they do have the authority to open mail under suspicion. It was pretty obvious that he was hiding something when he didn't even know what was in the box he was shipping and it was on a border town where drug trafficking is huge.

On a side note, searching people because of suspicious/nervous behavior has saved lives. Here's a story I have heard numerous times, but I would have to go searching for any articles on it to find the particulars (I've forgotten which city it was, but I thought it was L.A.): Several years ago in the wake of 9/11, a man had a car full of explosives and was going to set them off in a big city. His nervous behavior alerted police at a state border checkpoint and they searched the car and of course stopped him. If they hadn't searched him, many people would have no doubt been killed. I believe in constitutional rights of course, but in the name of safety, there are times when I believe searches are quite justified.

I am a US citizen, but I believe that such behavior can warrant a search. And they do have the authority to open mail under suspicion. It was pretty obvious that he was hiding something when he didn't even know what was in the box he was shipping and it was on a border town where drug trafficking is huge.

On a side note, searching people because of suspicious/nervous behavior has saved lives. Here's a story I have heard numerous times, but I would have to go searching for any articles on it to find the particulars (I've forgotten which city it was, but I thought it was L.A.): Several years ago in the wake of 9/11, a man had a car full of explosives and was going to set them off in a big city. His nervous behavior alerted police at a state border checkpoint and they searched the car and of course stopped him. If they hadn't searched him, many people would have no doubt been killed. I believe in constitutional rights of course, but in the name of safety, there are times when I believe searches are quite justified.


Yes I def agree. You always have to listen to your "gut instinct". Suspicious behavior usually means "guilty" behavior (thats what my dad told me as a kid) if that makes any sense!

There are a bunch of LOL moments, but for the first time I just watched the segment where the radio DJs made up an on-air confession to murder! OH MY GOD these guys were such bastards. The worst was that the DJs seemed so sincere in saying it wasn't a hoax.

There are a bunch of LOL moments, but for the first time I just watched the segment where the radio DJs made up an on-air confession to murder! OH MY GOD these guys were such bastards. The worst was that the DJs seemed so sincere in saying it wasn't a hoax.

~ What makes it even worse is parents were calling in thinking that their missing daughter was the one who was killed. And if I'm not mistaken they got off with just a slap on the wrist!

I still don't quite understand how that justifies a search warrant. I thought people had constitutional rights in the USA but I may be wrong on that if that is all that is required to obtain a search warrant.

We do, and that exchange with its accompanying circumstances are enough to justify a law enforcement search (which doesn't necessarily require a warrant).

See:

Illinois v. Gates
Terry v. Ohio

~ What makes it even worse is parents were calling in thinking that their missing daughter was the one who was killed. And if I'm not mistaken they got off with just a slap on the wrist!

They were taken off the air for ten days, then came back to work alng with a new DJ: the guy who faked the call during the hoax! I think I remember during the update RS said something along the lines of "the FCC ultimately decided to take no action."

I still think the Scott Rossiter segment was the most ludicrous bunch of circumstances I've ever seen in one case: police officer shot IN the parking lot of the police station and suspect is on the lam, sudden weird update with the suspect's remains being removed from some random field in the middle of nowhere, and then the police saying, "We'll probably never know what happened to him." Meaning, no one "will ever know" what happened to Scott Rossiter OR the suspect, as he never had a chance to be tried. :eek:

They were taken off the air for ten days, then came back to work alng with a new DJ: the guy who faked the call during the hoax! I think I remember during the update RS said something along the lines of "the FCC ultimately decided to take no action."



And they're still on the air to this day. My friends listen to them and I can't stand it! I got a few to stop after I told them about the hoax.

I still think the Scott Rossiter segment was the most ludicrous bunch of circumstances I've ever seen in one case: police officer shot IN the parking lot of the police station and suspect is on the lam, sudden weird update with the suspect's remains being removed from some random field in the middle of nowhere, and then the police saying, "We'll probably never know what happened to him." Meaning, no one "will ever know" what happened to Scott Rossiter OR the suspect, as he never had a chance to be tried. :eek:
That was so scary and unexpected the first time. Every time after that it's STILL freaky. :eek:

Another one: In the Gus Hoffman segment, people let his mother know they saw bikers threaten him with chains...in the middle of CROWDED INTERSECTION. I know bikers are tough stuff especially in the 70s, but NO ONE called the police to report a kid who was obviously not a biker being threatened physically? I would have called from home later where no one would see or hear me reporting it.

When Edward Harold Bell decided to pull a gun out on a man trying to stop him in the middle of the street in broad daylight and this man's mother was watching.

The nerve of EHB. As if exposing himself wasn't bad enough.

When they cut to a freaky photo or composite of someone and zoom the camera in on it. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Another one: In the Gus Hoffman segment, people let his mother know they saw bikers threaten him with chains...in the middle of CROWDED INTERSECTION. I know bikers are tough stuff especially in the 70s, but NO ONE called the police to report a kid who was obviously not a biker being threatened physically? I would have called from home later where no one would see or hear me reporting it.

I thought of this one also at the time, but it could be that someone did call it in but the police just didn't bother to do anything about it.

I mean, a gang of bikers who probably have a list of felonies as long as the Sacramento river, what were they going to do about it - catch up with them and tell them "now don't be so naughty and go swinging your chains around in a public place, be nice in future?".

OMG, I just read this entire post this morning and I literally had steams of tears running down my face from laughing so hard. You guys are totally funny, thanks for making my day!

For me, the biggest WTF moments have pretty much already been said here.

I agree that no one knew Liz Carmichael was a man, and how the one idiot said "If Liz came back and said let's do it again, I'd be right with her". Are you fn stupid?

Another thing I never understood was how the cops handled the Wendy Camp case. I don't know USA law that well, especially the variances from state to states, but there had to be some legal way to haul in Chad Noe, his mother and grandmother. I would have put them in 3 separated rooms and grilled them. Under the threat and assumption that one would sell out the other, I'd hammer them until one of them decided to save their fancy skin and throw the other two under the bus. I don't understand why the cops didn't try this. The three of them were the last people to see Wendy and Leon's sister and the little girl alive, so I don't think it would be unreasonable to question the hell out of them. To me, just taking their statements was a big "WTF" moment.

Another thing I never understood was how the cops handled the Wendy Camp case. I don't know USA law that well, especially the variances from state to states, but there had to be some legal way to haul in Chad Noe, his mother and grandmother. I would have put them in 3 separated rooms and grilled them. Under the threat and assumption that one would sell out the other, I'd hammer them until one of them decided to save their fancy skin and throw the other two under the bus. I don't understand why the cops didn't try this. The three of them were the last people to see Wendy and Leon's sister and the little girl alive, so I don't think it would be unreasonable to question the hell out of them. To me, just taking their statements was a big "WTF" moment.

IIRC, one of the reasons this didn't happen was because of widespread police corruption in that area. The elder Noes were said to be in cahoots with the local cops since way before Wendy, Cynthia, and Lisa went "missing" so they had no interest in doing a proper investigation.

Okay, this just occurred to me when I re-watched the Redwood City arsonist case not too long ago, but I find it pretty amusing that this family would find a videotape lying by the side of the road and without even screening it first, the parents would sit down to watch it at home with their kids. What if it had been porn?! :lol:

I actually wonder how many sleepless nights those poor kids had after watching that...

IIRC, one of the reasons this didn't happen was because of widespread police corruption in that area. The elder Noes were said to be in cahoots with the local cops since way before Wendy, Cynthia, and Lisa went "missing" so they had no interest in doing a proper investigation.
Someone said in another thread that Chad Noe disappeared 14 years ago. was i reading that right?

Okay, this just occurred to me when I re-watched the Redwood City arsonist case not too long ago, but I find it pretty amusing that this family would find a videotape lying by the side of the road and without even screening it first, the parents would sit down to watch it at home with their kids. What if it had been porn?! :lol:

I actually wonder how many sleepless nights those poor kids had after watching that...

OMG!!! That's sooo funny because that's EXACTLY what I was thinking when I saw the whole family sitting on the couch excited to watch this video. I remember thinking to myself "why aren't they waiting until the kids are in bed, what if it's porn?". LMAO.

The nerve of EHB. As if exposing himself wasn't bad enough.

That was one big WTF moment when he got out of the truck with no pants on.

That was one big WTF moment when he got out of the truck with no pants on.

That part actually scares the hell out of me--even more than some of the commonly cited "scary UM moments". Imagine that happening on your own street.

Imagine that happening on your own street.

Yuck. I definitely think I would have done the same thing Larry did, if there were kids within seeing distance of some a-hole with no pants on walking down the street.

Someone said in another thread that Chad Noe disappeared 14 years ago. was i reading that right?

I'm not positive, but I think what happened with him was not that he "disappeared" as in something suspicious or criminal happened to him, but that he decided to drop out of his son's life after all that fighting to get custody and then didn't have very much contact with his family. Again, not positive, but I think I read that he was doing a lot of drugs and drinking so hadn't put a priority on friends or family anymore.

Yuck. I definitely think I would have done the same thing Larry did, if there were kids within seeing distance of some a-hole with no pants on walking down the street.
I'm sure most ppl would want to help,but yikes........this is a good lesson on calling police and letting them deal w it.Being unarmed and not trained to deal w that kind of situation is what got that poor guy killed.

That was so scary and unexpected the first time. Every time after that it's STILL freaky. :eek:

I seem to remember seeing this long ago. I thought it was weird. Did they say how they got the tip to where the suspects dead body was? I don't recall if that was mentioned in the update.

I seem to remember seeing this long ago. I thought it was weird. Did they say how they got the tip to where the suspects dead body was? I don't recall if that was mentioned in the update.
I think it was an anonymous source, making it all the more creepy! :eek:

Another one: Michael Swango telling coworkers that his ultimate dream as a paramedic was a violent scene in which children in a school bus were horrifically injured. What. The. Hell. If anyone ever told me that was their dream, I would tell them to seek psychological help and probably report it to my supervisor! I would never seek to socialize with that person ever again!!!

Another one: Michael Swango telling coworkers that his ultimate dream as a paramedic was a violent scene in which children in a school bus were horrifically injured. What. The. Hell. If anyone ever told me that was their dream, I would tell them to seek psychological help and probably report it to my supervisor! I would never seek to socialize with that person ever again!!!

I just finished James Stewart's book Blind Eye about Michael Swango over the weekend. That guy had PROBLEMS. I don't want to post anything specific that he was quoted as saying here because I personally find it very offensive and disturbing, but there is a lot of evidence to suggest he got some sort of sexual gratification through notions of violent death. :eek: He is EXACTLY where he belongs.

I just finished James Stewart's book Blind Eye about Michael Swango over the weekend. That guy had PROBLEMS. I don't want to post anything specific that he was quoted as saying here because I personally find it very offensive and disturbing, but there is a lot of evidence to suggest he got some sort of sexual gratification through notions of violent death. :eek: He is EXACTLY where he belongs.
Oh, Lord. I had a feeling that the UM segment only scraped the surface when talking about how sick he was. I am glad they caught him. It's not a segment or person I would like to think about before visiting the doctor!

Paulette Hite (spelling?), Julius Patterson's accomplice, only got 6 years. For participating in two murders. WHAT.

The neighbor who appears at Neal and Terri Gott's house and tells police he's baby-sitting the dog, who is dead. I guess he failed to realize that he wasn't doing a very good job! Also, the alleged dog sitter in the reeanctment appears very shifty, failed dog-sitting aside.

How about Tim Good letting Dave Freeman control him as it he could of kicked him out when things started getting crazy? I think I heard Dave Freemanus out of jail now. I hope it is not true.

Yeah, I wish there was a way we could find out more details about how "Dave Freeman" took control over Tim Good after he started working for him.

the most f'd up segment imo, was the dale car segment. just the way they produced it, with the lady looking in the mirror and pulling her wig off. which was then an obvious male, pre-op transgender.

from the way u.s was telling it, it sounded like she was sent to a female prison. which i didn't know they are that adopting back then with pre-op trans rights.

from the way u.s was telling it, it sounded like she was sent to a female prison. which i didn't know they are that adopting back then with pre-op trans rights.

Huh?

I never got the slightest indication of this at all from the segment, and I've seen it so many times I could probably generate a transcript for you on the spot.

Why would a born-male inmate ever be sent to a prison for females? When has it EVER happened?

Huh?

I never got the slightest indication of this at all from the segment, and I've seen it so many times I could probably generate a transcript for you on the spot.

Why would a born-male inmate ever be sent to a prison for females? When has it EVER happened?

oh yeah it has happend for post-up trans

i got that way because they kept on calling her she, even after it was revelaed she was a he.
they said she was sent to prision, and served like 3 years or something.
thats why i thought that way.


there isnt relaly much doubt she was trans, and i thought they also said during the segment she receiving hormone treatment, the logically next step after that was to have the sexual reassignment surgery.

oh yeah it has happend for post-up trans

I'm referring to people who identify as and pass for the opposite gender who have not had surgery--like Elizabeth Carmichael, aka Jerry Dean Michael.

i got that way because they kept on calling her she, even after it was revelaed she was a he.
they said she was sent to prision, and served like 3 years or something.
thats why i thought that way.

What was said was, "Jerry Dean Michael was convicted of fraud and released after serving two years in prison."


there isnt relaly much doubt she was trans, and i thought they also said during the segment she receiving hormone treatment, the logically next step after that was to have the sexual reassignment surgery.

No one is in doubt she was a transgendered person--except for maybe those guys she worked with. She was in the process of undergoing hormone treatment at the time she was arrested.

This is from the UM website:

Within just minutes of our broadcast, we received a tip from a viewer who recognized Jerry Dean Michael as a flower vender named Kathryn Elizabeth Johnson. Michael had chosen to live in the small community of Dale, Texas, and was arrested at his home. Eight years after he jumped bail, Michael was returned to California. There, he was sentenced to 32 months on several counts arising from his auto scam. He was sent to an all-male facility. After serving just over two years, Jerry Dean Michael was discharged with three years of parole.

http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/sol_elizabeth_carmichael.htm

I'm referring to people who identify as and pass for the opposite gender who have not had surgery--like Elizabeth Carmichael, aka Jerry Dean Michael.



What was said was, "Jerry Dean Michael was convicted of fraud and released after serving two years in prison."




No one is in doubt she was a transgendered person--except for maybe those guys she worked with. She was in the process of undergoing hormone treatment at the time she was arrested.

This is from the UM website:

Within just minutes of our broadcast, we received a tip from a viewer who recognized Jerry Dean Michael as a flower vender named Kathryn Elizabeth Johnson. Michael had chosen to live in the small community of Dale, Texas, and was arrested at his home. Eight years after he jumped bail, Michael was returned to California. There, he was sentenced to 32 months on several counts arising from his auto scam. He was sent to an all-male facility. After serving just over two years, Jerry Dean Michael was discharged with three years of parole.

okay yeah that is what it says on the website, i swear on the segment it said she was sent. anyways i guess it doesnt relaly matter.

http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/sol_elizabeth_carmichael.htm

I thought it was funny that good ol' Liz was caught living in a town called "Dale". AND that the last name she chose was her real last name (Michael) with "Car" tacked in front of it :lol:

I thought it was funny that good ol' Liz was caught living in a town called "Dale". AND that the last name she chose was her real last name (Michael) with "Car" tacked in front of it :lol:

Yeah, not too creative, was she? :p

...Or maybe she was. :lol:

The Liz Carmichael segment, where two of her former associates at 20th Century Motor were so convinced her Dale car could still exist and would partner up with her again despite her fraud scheme.

The Liz Carmichael segment, where two of her former associates at 20th Century Motor were so convinced her Dale car could still exist and would partner up with her again despite her fraud scheme.

lol yeah. crazy mofos.
i like that when the auditor went there and actually looked at the car, the car doors had door hinges on it like you would see on a bed room door. they didn't even try to make it look good.

I always say WTF in my head watching the Kathy Hobbs segment as the actress is viciously combing her hair and looking demented in the mirror.

I know the police did eventually look into the guy more carefully, but in the Kirkpatrick segment when they say they traced a suspect, ''but his name wasn't Sean or Don so the trail grew cold.'' So?! Like the guy would really give his real name anyway. :rolleyes: Then after more phone calls from people who recognized the voice they finally search his house.


That poor girl in the Amy Billig segment who said she was sold four times in the first year she was captive before she even turned 13. Maybe not a ''what the?!'' moment per se but it is crazy to think about things like that happening. I want to find more information on her.

Donna Brown's two prior husbands being murdered. What a tragic coicidence.

Any suspicious death where the victim is not wearing their own clothes (Keith Warren, Debbie Wolfe) and the police insist that there's no foul play. :rolleyes: Particularly Debbie Wolfe's case because she was wearing clothes way too big for her, including a bra three sizes too large. Yeah, not suspicious at all.

The guy who became obsessed with John Lennon and started dressing and talking like him. I always found that really amusing except for the fact that he kidnapped his daughter and hid her from her mother for 8 years.

Edward Harold Bell

Where we learn that after shooting someone dead at point blank range in front of their own mother, and then trying to kill two cops (only failing because his gun jammed), Bell is then GRANTED BAIL!!!!! :confused: :confused: :eek: :confused:

I understand the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing, but there cannot be too many jurisidictions in the world these days that would grant bail to such an individual, particularly given the strength of the case against him

The guy who became obsessed with John Lennon and started dressing and talking like him. I always found that really amusing except for the fact that he kidnapped his daughter and hid her from her mother for 8 years.

I only like that episode because I get to hear Robert Stack say my last name lol :lol: The mom kinda annoyed me though

I mentioned this one in the "People You Didnt Like" thread, but I think it's also a WTF moment. It's the Pat Melbach case. She was an heir to the “Dodge” estate. She was put up for adoption but I think she just wanted to connect with someone from that side of the family. She clearly stated she didn’t want any money. But her daughter chimed in and said she did want money and felt that she was entitled to it. I mean, if you mom didn’t want it, I don’t think you are entitled to it either… Just the way she said it, made me say WTF!

The guy in the Ice Man segment who is convinced to look at the exhibit and before going in is all, "It's totally fake" then comes out dazed and walks away just saying that it's amazing and nothing else. Was he being sarcastic, cryptic? Was he really wowed by it? I know it adds to the mystery that this guy had such a reaction, but I wonder if it went down quite like that in real life.

The guy in the Ice Man segment who is convinced to look at the exhibit and before going in is all, "It's totally fake" then comes out dazed and walks away just saying that it's amazing and nothing else. Was he being sarcastic, cryptic? Was he really wowed by it? I know it adds to the mystery that this guy had such a reaction, but I wonder if it went down quite like that in real life.
I was curious about that too. I would have chased him down and keep asking him about what he thought about it instead of letting him walk away.

I can think of two moments right off the top of my head.

1. Charlotte Pollis- During the interview with her mother, she mentions how she and Charlotte would talk on the phone about 14 times a day. 14 times a day??? Seriously???

2. Black Hope Curse- This man sees a couple of floating apparitions in his house, and he follows them to his bedroom. When he gets there an apparition is standing at the foot of his bed. He charges at it and jumps through it, landing right on top of his wife. I said "WTF??" its hilarious to watch.

Edward Harold Bell getting released on bail after shooting a man in cold blood.

In the Tommy Burkett segment, when the police officer tells the family that the shooting probably happened while they were driving down the street, contrary to all evidence. If he really said this, why? Why would you say such a thing? Especially when the medical responders had already told the family it had been several hours? I thought that was a bit "WTF" moment. It's almost as though he was trying to make them feel worse.

Hey all, long time lurker but a big fan of the show :) I've learned so much here about old cases I remember watching years ago and had wondered what ever happened with them.

Anyways, someone else mentioned the Judy Olive segment. To me that entire segment was a "what the?" The way she talks about how she and Ulysses Roberson ended up sleeping together was so weird to me. She says something along the lines of "All of a sudden, we were having intercourse." Like she didn't realize that was probably going to happen once she got into bed with him? IIRC she said she had been drugged beforehand, but it's just so strange the way she talks about it in the UM interview like she didn't really care that Ulysses had taken advantage of her like that. I would be completely outraged! Just a strange case to me. Unfortunately, I don't think she was ever reunited with her son. He would be in his 30's today.

I always thought the couple in the car were CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY to go back to the scene where they had seen DePue dumping the bloody blanket....after he'd followed them and they'd seen blood all over the door of his van.

WTF. Some people have no sense of self-preservation.

I always thought the couple in the car were CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY to go back to the scene where they had seen DePue dumping the bloody blanket....after he'd followed them and they'd seen blood all over the door of his van.

WTF. Some people have no sense of self-preservation.

I guess DePue didn't look threatening to them.

Maybe if he was driving this they wouldn't have stopped

http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/4A/16936B81C344C37CCBDF155682337.jpg

Hey all, long time lurker but a big fan of the show :) I've learned so much here about old cases I remember watching years ago and had wondered what ever happened with them.

Anyways, someone else mentioned the Judy Olive segment. To me that entire segment was a "what the?" The way she talks about how she and Ulysses Roberson ended up sleeping together was so weird to me. She says something along the lines of "All of a sudden, we were having intercourse." Like she didn't realize that was probably going to happen once she got into bed with him? IIRC she said she had been drugged beforehand, but it's just so strange the way she talks about it in the UM interview like she didn't really care that Ulysses had taken advantage of her like that. I would be completely outraged! Just a strange case to me. Unfortunately, I don't think she was ever reunited with her son. He would be in his 30's today.

Ulysses Roberson has already been charged with the murder of his son but his remains have never been found.

http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Alexander_Olive

Ulysses Roberson has already been charged with the murder of his son but his remains have never been found.

http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Alexander_Olive
Yep, I remember being really happy upon hearing the news that he was finally charged. I think there were reports that someone who looked like Alexander (with severe mental problems) was spotted when he would have been of adult age. But I think that those sightings were incorrect and Ulysses murdered him, just as he was charged. I think Alexander never made it to Lake Tahoe and may have already been dead/dying when carried out of the house and seen by one of the wives.

I just watched the Donna Baldeo case for the first time, and thought the entire thing was one big "what the..." moment. This was the case of a family of 3 killed in an apartment fire that was detetrmined to be arson.

UM spent the whole segment playing up the 'Donna and her family killed by potential bank robber' angle. The situation was, 5 weeks earlier, Donna was the first to arrive at her place of employment, a bank in the Houston area, and noticed a sheet of paper demanding whoever read it to supply "all the money in the bank." Who wrote the note remained a mystery and there were no identifiable suspects in the area.

Donna did what any sane person would do and ignored the demand, then later coaxed a coworker to follow her to a nearby convenience store, where the police were contacted. They were unable to determine who wrote the note. 5 weeks later, the arson happened. It was speculated the potential bank robber got retaliation. And then at the tail end of the segment, almost as an afterthought, UM mentions that there have been 15 (?!) previous fires at this apartment complex. Geesh, did they ever stop to think whoever did those might be responsible? And sure enough, the update mentions 2 juveniles were responsible and had no connection to the note whatsoever.

Now, here are the additional "what the..." moments in this segment.

1) why would anyone assume anyone could feasibly give them all the money in the bank, especially with no help? Did the potential bank robber expect a worker to just stuff all the money in their pockets?

2) Even if the worker had been able to do that, how would the potential bank robber collect the money? He/she had not given the worker any instructions on what do with it, who to give it to or anything.

3) Why did they think Donna was targeted for ignoring the demand? Unless the potential bank robber had somehow gained personal info on Donna, where she lived, etc (which is highly unlikely) he/she would have no way of getting retaliation.

4) why was it assumed that someone would set fire to an entire apartment complex on fire in order to murder one resident? It would take a particularly heinous individual to murder a whole group of innocent people, and it's a very uncertain method.

5) and what is up with 2 kids barely in their teens doing all that? Makes what Omar did seem tame in comparison.

The whole thing was just one big "what the...." moment for me.

Story goes, old Joe Kennedy had this done to Rosemary when his wife, Rose, was out of town. She never got over it. One day years later she came in and found him lying in distress, obviously having fallen to a stroke, and instead of calling for help went swimming--let him see how he liked something going wrong in HIS brain--and he ended up worse than Rosemary for about the last 9 years of his life.

Well, the Kennedys have never been good at calling 911...

Well, the Kennedys have never been good at calling 911...

I'm not a conservative, but I have to admit I laughed at those "I'd Rather Go Hunting with Dick Cheney Than Driving with Ted Kennedy" bumper stickers.

I have one of the ghost segments on...Alan Mann married a 16 YEAR OLD????

I just watched the Joyce McKelvie case for the first time, about a young mother stabbed to death by her ex-husband. Not only did UM not give us the killer's name, they don't even mention his jail time or anything about his fate. I found that really odd. It makes me wonder if he was already released and threatened a lawsuit if his name was mentioned or something.

I have one of the ghost segments on...Alan Mann married a 16 YEAR OLD????

He did indeed. David Harry Fisher was also married to a 16 year old girl when he murdered Laura Burbank.

Wow, I re-watched the nudist colony case and during the update where William Eugene "Rusty" Hilliard was captured, I almost thought I was hearing things when RS stated that if Hilliard was convicted of his charge of sexual battery against an 11-year old girl, he could face the death penalty!

Don't get me wrong, child molesters deserve severe punishment, but I had no idea a person could be sentenced to death for that crime if no murder was involved. I did some checking up on this and, yes, apparently, some states did have the death penalty for the rape of a child until the Supreme Court ruled it to be unconstitutional. You learn something new every day!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_v._Louisiana

Is it even legal for a grown man to marry a 16 yr old girl? :eek:

Is it even legal for a grown man to marry a 16 yr old girl? :eek:
Yes, but it varies from state to state. Sometimes parental permission is required, sometimes a court order is needed.

http://www.usmarriagelaws.com/search/united_states/teen_marriage_laws/